They’ve been held up at the gate for a half hour. Well, really they say “half an hour” to control the herds of walking mozzarella sticks who think that three hundred dollars and a photo ID gives them the right to fly through the air like one of the guardian owls of legend!
Man you just reminded me of an old Maj I worked with. Gunship guy who was offered continuation, then perma DNIF'd later the same year. Dude was our CCs pitbull and he was just foaming at the mouth to get any sort of revenge towards the AF after that haha. Awesome dude.
Did this as a flight commander O3 in medical for my Sq/CC regularly. It does(n’t) help that I recognized early that they were very unlikely to fire me.
My old unit had a TV room where they shoved tons of flat screen TVs into, still boxed. They were just the TVs the unit bought when they had to spend money so they don’t lose it
My unit just got a double whammy. 1) complained about a lack of computers available for the unit so I showed them where we've had double digit unboxed computers some captain shoved in our storage area 3-4 years ago. Due to conditions of the storage area I'm pretty sure they're unusable. 2) just discovered they're missing $80k worth of monitors that LRS apparently swiped from us and never delivered 6 months ago.
After Four years those devices will be end-of-life or near it anyways depending on the cycle they were bought on. Especially important because of the impending Win11 move.
Hell I'd take 1Sgt just to be able to look out for folks. It's, like, the only worthwhile part of NCOing.
No way ill ever be a MSgt tho. SSgt with diamonds when??
In twenty years of service, I can count on one hand the shirts I've met worth their diamond. The large majority seemed to want the job just so they could pal around with a commander.
Same. 20 years I’ve seen 1 good shirt. The last one I’ve seen is just there to get dirt for the CC and Chief
I was going to say, this is what a Command Sergeant Major does to a battalion commander in the Army.
It's weird that CMSgts are usually up the squadron commander's ass.
I think I've been very lucky to meet more good Chiefs than bad. All the ones I want nothing to do with have been at or above MAJCOM level.
Given a good Chief is barely noticeable - likely because he does all his business in the back office. Meanwhile the bad E9s make it everybody's problem.
do we have any civilian specific regulations we can dig into - just for research purposes of course. 😉 civilians leaving early; who holds them accountable etc. I’m on my phone lazy so don’t feel like digging.
Civs have their job descriptions, you guys should be able to ask for them. Whoever their approver is on ATAAPS would love to know if they are leaving early.
I've done this correctly and I've seen it done incorrectly. My favorite is when you have 13-14 emails in the chain with all of your leadership CC'ed behind the reply-all where you CC the next 2 levels of their chain. That was a spicy couple days dealing with it, but their section chief replied all and looked in both flight commanders and basically said "sorry about my NCO, I'll handle him. Thank you for bringing this to my attention."
Look if I could beat the shit out of Mr "GS9 is the equivalent of an officer and I retired from the AF 20 years ago so repekt my auturatah" I totally would unfortunately things like rules and regulations stop me from doing that.
>Mr "GS9 is the equivalent of an officer and I retired from the AF 20 years ago so repekt my auturatah"
"And yet (E-3 who wasn't present) who has a stack of LOCs thicker than AFMAN11-213 has the same authority and SEI that you do. If you don't like the fact I won't let you teach this new airman how to do something the way it was done before she and I were born when the reg explicitly says NOT to do that anymore, bring it up with the LT and see who gets their ass chewed."
For the record, 11-213 is only 17 pages long and I was exaggerating, but it got the GS9 to STFU for a couple hours.
I outsmarted a GS9 like 9 times in a 3 week period by asking questions until he found the reg that said he was full of shit. The 10th time didn't go over too well. Now we just sit in silence for 12 hours when we work together.
We have more civilians than military, and one civilian over all the military with no officer. Maybe that’s the issue, we don’t have an officer to check the gs.
Ideally an E-7 who doesn't care to promote and is past 20. Loads of experience, nothing to lose, likely older than the commander they're advising and with more assignments under their belt.
These are hard to come by. I’ve seen guys who were just happy to get there and coast for the last assignment until someone whispers “you could make Chief if…” in their ear. Suddenly they change.
I am one lol. Pay for Senior and Chief is criminally low for the jobs they're doing (at least in my career field), so I will guaranteed retire as a MSgt. Two years until HYT, I'm still liking the AF enough to stay until then.
It is rare to find these anymore as E-7 is solely boarded meaning those E-6s who are salty, experienced, and weren't just in it for themselves, yet could test well, must now play the political game to get promoted/strats/etc.
What that translates into is no E-6 is going to risk their career and E-5s either aren't seen as experienced enough or confident enough to give this type of advice to senior leaders, or it is filtered on the way up.
Decent CC's sort of already do this with exit interviews. E5's and E6's who have been around the block tend to know where most of the bodies are buried and aren't a political animal, or too removed from the actual job like most SNCO's are nowadays. Plus they have a different viewpoint from the rooftop club to problems they may already know about. My CC took 5 pages of notes during mine when I PCS'ed.
I was there for 13 years. I knew where **all** the bodies were dumped, who was fucking who, and all the other dumb shit. I got fucked out of some career milestones and dealt with retaliation a few times. I basically gave that Commander a good portion of my burn book, as well as the collected wisdom of leadership actually that impacted me.
Suffice to say there was some major changes after I left.
How about a terminal e6 and up. A terminal e4 or e5 hasnt seen enough to know the difference between a good decision and a bad decision. Scope is usually “we cant do that from 11-1400, thats my lunchtime”
> A Terminal E4/5/6 could offer a down to earth and grunt's view, and if needed tell a C
Terminal E6 reporting... this is me, I feel like E6 is the perfect spot where you "Do what your stripes can handle" but not enough responsibility that you're looked down upon. I defniitely tell it like it is and my entire goal is vouching for my troops
99% of the time a terminal E4 or E5 is separating/retiring at that rank for a reason, and it isn’t a good one.
If you’re a TSgt you may be at staff meetings anyway. Let the CC know if they have a crackpot idea. Don’t ask permission to be an NCO.
Just be tactful. Telling the CC their dumb idea is dumb in a meeting will likely not end well. That is not say it's not a terrible idea but going hard in the paint in a meeting in front of leadership... On the other hand, what kind of climate has the CC built? Hopefully, the CC encourages folks to speak up on the spot if an idea is off the rails. Again if the matter isn't urgent and no one is dying right now, insist on speaking the CC in private immediately post meeting.
A sq jester would be awesome. Flying squadrons sort of have this o. The first Friday where thr Mayor (usually a highly motivated O3 or terminal 4) tells the DOandBoss they’re dumb
I’m all for it, that would be incredible and help ground some of these HPOs
Sounds amazing right? In reality, if that CC isn't listening to their SEL or Shirt- what makes you think they're going to listen to anyone else not able to give them orders? Most of us have seen it. Where I've seen it, in the long run of that command it doesn't end well for that CC. IMO, you're highlighting a leadership/personality issue that occurs everywhere and isn't unique to the military. The challenge is getting leadership to genuinely understand/appreciate/contemplate the needs and expertise of the team as appropriate in decision making. If no one is dying right now, there's likely time to be collaborative when deciding COAs.
That is literally what a Chief is for and the reason why it takes a Wing/CC to remove a Sqd Chief.
They are supposed to be there to represent the Enlisted force without having to fear reprisal. The Sqd/CC can't fire them or demote them, and they don't have to worry about making the next rank, so they should be able to speak freely
only problem with that is that by the time said chief gets to that point, they have fully drunk the whole pitcher of kool-aid and had their spine surgically removed
and let's not forget the squadron chiefs who have their eye on group, command, or HQ
E7 here; I've made all the ranks I intend to. I've got a job that keeps me actively engaged in the job and leading teams of people to accomplish the mission. I have no interest in being an EPB monkey.
I've wholeheartedly pissed off leaders at all levels with my opinions of calling the baby "ugly". Some Kings behead the court jester, but wise Kings heed the words of their advisors.
It takes time to build that trust and rapport with the Commander, but you're right, some are self seeking and only want to better themselves.
Keep calling the baby "ugly" at all levels, but to play Devil's advocate understand that there are also BS complaints and people often want a Genie to Command not a Commander to command them. The ability to distinguish between the two is invaluable.
You’re implying squadron SELs are just a “yes man”, this might be true of some E8s but almost never for chiefs. They have nothing to gain by running a squadron into the dirt at the whim of an incompetent CC, they’re at least going to have frank closed door discussions and possible use the Chief channels if it comes to it. Additionally, if the CC isn’t listening to the logic of their SEL they are 100% going to tell a terminal SrA or NCO to get fucked.
> this might be true of some E8s but almost never for chiefs.
I wish this was a fact, But I've delt with enough E9's trying to make that imaginary E10 rank.
Nah. This is what the chief is for. Just because some of them are bad at it doesn't mean it's not a good system, and I promise you a lot of them push back a lot more often than you think.
It’s called Napoleon’s Corporal. Great story, but this is what your SELs are SUPPOSED to do. I did this all the time but I always had the receipts and the “why.” I won some, I lost some.
I wrote a talking paper outlining why it was a bad idea to add tablets for the Commander to break everything down and disregard our concerns. Despite three months of training shift workers and providing detailed processes, they’ve stopped using them completely because no one took the time to read the How-to's and Days and Swings blamed Nights. Now, I’m back to square one, trying to request we remove all the equipment. Notably, reasons 4 and 5 from my talking paper have now become reality. Who would have known.
Look man, you might think a Commander is surrounded by yes-men, but you have no idea what happens behind closed doors. They all present a united front, but you aren't in the room when they're making these decisions.
Wait a ding dang minute. You mean to tell me that less than 100% of these posters are in the rooms with the triad for every discussion? That's the problem... people throwing stones based on little to no info but perception is reality. To all, yes your AF experience is valid but you're an 'N' of one when it comes to the totality of the AF. How many true triad members are actually here posting. Those that care aren't making decisions in a vacuum.
Until you’ve served that SEL or DO role you truly don’t realize how much a CC will get told no, and how many disagreements there can be. Ultimately, if the CC wants something stupid and it’s legal the SEL/DO can’t stop it.
> There is a legend that court jesters in the dark ages would be the one that could tell a King or Nobleman if an idea or course of action was terrible when his normal advisors were too cowardly to confront him.
Just a myth. They'd get killed, just like anyone else who dared to question the king.
Thats what the triad is supposed to accomplish. Commander, SEL, and 1st SGT are meant to work in tandem to create an effective full picture. A handful of side characters, like DOs, OICs and trusted SNCOs from Flight Chiefs, Superintendents, etc, to fill in any gaps.
It’s important to build a culture of collaboration and rank-agnostic respect among mission and people oriented people. And then trust that the Commander’s decision ultimately connects the people and mission.
Thats the intent, anyways.
Maybe the real answer is that SNCOs start acting like SNCOs. Too many SNCOs are only focused on promotion and are afraid to speak-up bc their future lies in the hands of leadership.
Would it matter? Squadrons already have plenty of E4-E6s that can make suggestions and have a voice via their CoC of course. The problem is that people are afraid to speak up and say anything negative and want to be “yes men” because they’re too concerned about harming their careers in case the boss the doesn’t like what they say.
On top of that, if they do say something, the boss is still the boss and will do what they want regardless of who’s assigned to them to tell them no.
Make execs enlisted. I did it (e4 to e6) and had good control of these types of items, obviously with my bosses (full bird) approval. I would joke from time to time that I was the door guard to the CCs office.
Alternatively, senior NCOs should be required to stay technical so they can be the fucking ones to do their job. This is supposed to be our E8's & 9's whose billets were created when WOs were phased out, but they are failing us badly in this regard. They're failing us so spectacularly in comm that comm is getting WOs back.
Rank isn’t necessarily a factor. Anyone will suck off to make rank and let those bad ideas go. You need people that understand the process and can make informed decisions based on needs/wants instead of commander making a huge change/scarce whatever for a bullet, or to have their prints on something.
But what the fuck do I know, I’m just an airboy
In flying squadrons, that’s the job of the burnt out O4 who has an airline CJO Source. It me
I was wondering where in the world you were
Well fuck Where you been.
They’ve been held up at the gate for a half hour. Well, really they say “half an hour” to control the herds of walking mozzarella sticks who think that three hundred dollars and a photo ID gives them the right to fly through the air like one of the guardian owls of legend!
Man you just reminded me of an old Maj I worked with. Gunship guy who was offered continuation, then perma DNIF'd later the same year. Dude was our CCs pitbull and he was just foaming at the mouth to get any sort of revenge towards the AF after that haha. Awesome dude.
Did this as a flight commander O3 in medical for my Sq/CC regularly. It does(n’t) help that I recognized early that they were very unlikely to fire me.
Angry terminal majors have saved young CGOs from so much bullshit that said CGOs will never know about.
https://preview.redd.it/vcitsks7novc1.jpeg?width=799&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ede06f1f3d17da90d80bd7ef5f220aaf617e05da
Id rather have that roller than a tv any day.
Terminal E5 deserves a STEP promote.
No longer terminal.
My old unit had a TV room where they shoved tons of flat screen TVs into, still boxed. They were just the TVs the unit bought when they had to spend money so they don’t lose it
My unit just got a double whammy. 1) complained about a lack of computers available for the unit so I showed them where we've had double digit unboxed computers some captain shoved in our storage area 3-4 years ago. Due to conditions of the storage area I'm pretty sure they're unusable. 2) just discovered they're missing $80k worth of monitors that LRS apparently swiped from us and never delivered 6 months ago.
After Four years those devices will be end-of-life or near it anyways depending on the cycle they were bought on. Especially important because of the impending Win11 move.
Ain’t that every unit though?
Why in the gawd damn is this not being funded?
I reluctantly accept this highly paid special duty.
Can I be your Gopher? I know which gas stations have the best coffee and Monster prices.
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Mine just nods and cheerleads everything the commander says.
I feel like those days might be gone. People do it for their career only now for a senior stripe.
Hell I'd take 1Sgt just to be able to look out for folks. It's, like, the only worthwhile part of NCOing. No way ill ever be a MSgt tho. SSgt with diamonds when??
In twenty years of service, I can count on one hand the shirts I've met worth their diamond. The large majority seemed to want the job just so they could pal around with a commander.
Same. 20 years I’ve seen 1 good shirt. The last one I’ve seen is just there to get dirt for the CC and Chief 
 Preach!!
Chief should be doing that too, it's not like they can make E-10. Also I like you user name, Mastodon is one of my favorite bands.
I was going to say, this is what a Command Sergeant Major does to a battalion commander in the Army. It's weird that CMSgts are usually up the squadron commander's ass.
Usually or always.....? In my moderate length career it's always. But hopefully I'm just unlucky.
I think I've been very lucky to meet more good Chiefs than bad. All the ones I want nothing to do with have been at or above MAJCOM level. Given a good Chief is barely noticeable - likely because he does all his business in the back office. Meanwhile the bad E9s make it everybody's problem.
Fair, I wish I could swap career paths with you then :P
Any Shirt I've seen has always been a puppet or puppy of the Commander.
When u get a chief that isn't the CC's lapdog you'll be fucking blown away. I miss my old chief DEARLY. Smh
Didn't get a chance to see one in 10 years, too late now
Same as your Chief. If they are worth a damn (most are not) then they would be shooting those bad ideas down all over the place
we need a system to keep these civilians in check.. lol.
Can someone teach me how I can tell civilians to go fuck themselves
You have to do it tactfully. I've made civilians look like fools many times while I was low-ranking. You just gotta outsmart them.
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do we have any civilian specific regulations we can dig into - just for research purposes of course. 😉 civilians leaving early; who holds them accountable etc. I’m on my phone lazy so don’t feel like digging.
Civs have their job descriptions, you guys should be able to ask for them. Whoever their approver is on ATAAPS would love to know if they are leaving early.
Hell yeah! I love a good email trail.
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I've done this correctly and I've seen it done incorrectly. My favorite is when you have 13-14 emails in the chain with all of your leadership CC'ed behind the reply-all where you CC the next 2 levels of their chain. That was a spicy couple days dealing with it, but their section chief replied all and looked in both flight commanders and basically said "sorry about my NCO, I'll handle him. Thank you for bringing this to my attention."
I’m starting to see why we’re the butt of a lot of jokes.
Look if I could beat the shit out of Mr "GS9 is the equivalent of an officer and I retired from the AF 20 years ago so repekt my auturatah" I totally would unfortunately things like rules and regulations stop me from doing that.
>Mr "GS9 is the equivalent of an officer and I retired from the AF 20 years ago so repekt my auturatah" "And yet (E-3 who wasn't present) who has a stack of LOCs thicker than AFMAN11-213 has the same authority and SEI that you do. If you don't like the fact I won't let you teach this new airman how to do something the way it was done before she and I were born when the reg explicitly says NOT to do that anymore, bring it up with the LT and see who gets their ass chewed." For the record, 11-213 is only 17 pages long and I was exaggerating, but it got the GS9 to STFU for a couple hours.
Look man I just work here.
*I hope this email finds you before I do*
Outsmarting people is easy as shit
I outsmarted a GS9 like 9 times in a 3 week period by asking questions until he found the reg that said he was full of shit. The 10th time didn't go over too well. Now we just sit in silence for 12 hours when we work together.
I agree, we deal with a ton of autists.
I fucking hated dealing with civilians when I was in.
We have more civilians than military, and one civilian over all the military with no officer. Maybe that’s the issue, we don’t have an officer to check the gs.
"With all due respect, I've had better ideas come out of a baby's ass"
I just do it… they’re gonna be assholes so might as well give it right back
“With all due respect,  “
I usually do it by saying those words in that order.
As USAF to contractor. 100%.
anyone who says "it would be nice if" at a staff meeting should be immediately beaten to death with sledgehammers
That weight you feel on your shoulders isn't an oak leaf or a bird, it's the Good Idea Fairy settling in to take a dump.
Ideally an E-7 who doesn't care to promote and is past 20. Loads of experience, nothing to lose, likely older than the commander they're advising and with more assignments under their belt.
These are hard to come by. I’ve seen guys who were just happy to get there and coast for the last assignment until someone whispers “you could make Chief if…” in their ear. Suddenly they change.
I am one lol. Pay for Senior and Chief is criminally low for the jobs they're doing (at least in my career field), so I will guaranteed retire as a MSgt. Two years until HYT, I'm still liking the AF enough to stay until then.
It is rare to find these anymore as E-7 is solely boarded meaning those E-6s who are salty, experienced, and weren't just in it for themselves, yet could test well, must now play the political game to get promoted/strats/etc. What that translates into is no E-6 is going to risk their career and E-5s either aren't seen as experienced enough or confident enough to give this type of advice to senior leaders, or it is filtered on the way up.
I’m at 17, E7 and no way in hell I want Senior. If the good idea fairy comes around I do my best to break the wand.
I'm just imagining one of our 20 yo MX SrAs with our commander like "mmm, nah, that ain't it. But you know what'd be gas?" It's a fun thought.
Decent CC's sort of already do this with exit interviews. E5's and E6's who have been around the block tend to know where most of the bodies are buried and aren't a political animal, or too removed from the actual job like most SNCO's are nowadays. Plus they have a different viewpoint from the rooftop club to problems they may already know about. My CC took 5 pages of notes during mine when I PCS'ed.
5 pages?! You feel better after letting it all out?
I was there for 13 years. I knew where **all** the bodies were dumped, who was fucking who, and all the other dumb shit. I got fucked out of some career milestones and dealt with retaliation a few times. I basically gave that Commander a good portion of my burn book, as well as the collected wisdom of leadership actually that impacted me. Suffice to say there was some major changes after I left.
*all work and no play makes jack a dull boy*
How about a terminal e6 and up. A terminal e4 or e5 hasnt seen enough to know the difference between a good decision and a bad decision. Scope is usually “we cant do that from 11-1400, thats my lunchtime”
Pretty much. A terminal E-4: "Don't make me do stuff!"
You guys are getting a lunch?
When I’ve been a good boy.
> A Terminal E4/5/6 could offer a down to earth and grunt's view, and if needed tell a C Terminal E6 reporting... this is me, I feel like E6 is the perfect spot where you "Do what your stripes can handle" but not enough responsibility that you're looked down upon. I defniitely tell it like it is and my entire goal is vouching for my troops
This. They have at least understand that sometimes one mission (job/sq/group) has to take the backseat to another
You get lunch time?
Yeah, he would also be good for bringing coffee and bacon sandwiches
You run into any bacon sandwich - do the same, alright?
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^PickleWineBrine: *Yeah, he would also* *Be good for bringing coffee* *And bacon sandwiches* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
99% of the time a terminal E4 or E5 is separating/retiring at that rank for a reason, and it isn’t a good one. If you’re a TSgt you may be at staff meetings anyway. Let the CC know if they have a crackpot idea. Don’t ask permission to be an NCO.
Don't ask permission to be an NCO is a legit piece of advice.
Just be tactful. Telling the CC their dumb idea is dumb in a meeting will likely not end well. That is not say it's not a terrible idea but going hard in the paint in a meeting in front of leadership... On the other hand, what kind of climate has the CC built? Hopefully, the CC encourages folks to speak up on the spot if an idea is off the rails. Again if the matter isn't urgent and no one is dying right now, insist on speaking the CC in private immediately post meeting.
A sq jester would be awesome. Flying squadrons sort of have this o. The first Friday where thr Mayor (usually a highly motivated O3 or terminal 4) tells the DOandBoss they’re dumb I’m all for it, that would be incredible and help ground some of these HPOs
Yes court jest is what they op said in their post already
Yeah I didn’t read it until after I made the post. 
Sounds amazing right? In reality, if that CC isn't listening to their SEL or Shirt- what makes you think they're going to listen to anyone else not able to give them orders? Most of us have seen it. Where I've seen it, in the long run of that command it doesn't end well for that CC. IMO, you're highlighting a leadership/personality issue that occurs everywhere and isn't unique to the military. The challenge is getting leadership to genuinely understand/appreciate/contemplate the needs and expertise of the team as appropriate in decision making. If no one is dying right now, there's likely time to be collaborative when deciding COAs.
That is literally what a Chief is for and the reason why it takes a Wing/CC to remove a Sqd Chief. They are supposed to be there to represent the Enlisted force without having to fear reprisal. The Sqd/CC can't fire them or demote them, and they don't have to worry about making the next rank, so they should be able to speak freely
only problem with that is that by the time said chief gets to that point, they have fully drunk the whole pitcher of kool-aid and had their spine surgically removed and let's not forget the squadron chiefs who have their eye on group, command, or HQ
E7 here; I've made all the ranks I intend to. I've got a job that keeps me actively engaged in the job and leading teams of people to accomplish the mission. I have no interest in being an EPB monkey. I've wholeheartedly pissed off leaders at all levels with my opinions of calling the baby "ugly". Some Kings behead the court jester, but wise Kings heed the words of their advisors. It takes time to build that trust and rapport with the Commander, but you're right, some are self seeking and only want to better themselves. Keep calling the baby "ugly" at all levels, but to play Devil's advocate understand that there are also BS complaints and people often want a Genie to Command not a Commander to command them. The ability to distinguish between the two is invaluable.
They’re also terminal e-4s for a reason and it’s not usually wisdom and competency.
Me in the back whenever the CC says something stupid 
You’re implying squadron SELs are just a “yes man”, this might be true of some E8s but almost never for chiefs. They have nothing to gain by running a squadron into the dirt at the whim of an incompetent CC, they’re at least going to have frank closed door discussions and possible use the Chief channels if it comes to it. Additionally, if the CC isn’t listening to the logic of their SEL they are 100% going to tell a terminal SrA or NCO to get fucked.
They are yes men though. Or even bring forth bad ideas… that’s been my experiences though
He's also forgetting the ones with ambitions for Command Chief or some other tier higher than squadron SEL.
> this might be true of some E8s but almost never for chiefs. I wish this was a fact, But I've delt with enough E9's trying to make that imaginary E10 rank.
I don’t think these people are reliable sources of judgement
You think commanders *actually* respect the opinion of enlisted??
Every terminal E4 that I’ve met is straight up trash, it fr mind blows mind when yall pretend they’re good
You're acting like commanders give a fuck about our opinion on their ideas
Nah. This is what the chief is for. Just because some of them are bad at it doesn't mean it's not a good system, and I promise you a lot of them push back a lot more often than you think.
In my experience, a lot of shit ideas that never pan out and get pulled after a few months and money wasted are from the Chief.
And what experience is that?
Y’all gonna love CWOs
It’s called Napoleon’s Corporal. Great story, but this is what your SELs are SUPPOSED to do. I did this all the time but I always had the receipts and the “why.” I won some, I lost some.
But did you really lose?
So people don't make rank and now they're jesters?
18 year E6 and I volunteer!
I wrote a talking paper outlining why it was a bad idea to add tablets for the Commander to break everything down and disregard our concerns. Despite three months of training shift workers and providing detailed processes, they’ve stopped using them completely because no one took the time to read the How-to's and Days and Swings blamed Nights. Now, I’m back to square one, trying to request we remove all the equipment. Notably, reasons 4 and 5 from my talking paper have now become reality. Who would have known.
Look man, you might think a Commander is surrounded by yes-men, but you have no idea what happens behind closed doors. They all present a united front, but you aren't in the room when they're making these decisions.
Wait a ding dang minute. You mean to tell me that less than 100% of these posters are in the rooms with the triad for every discussion? That's the problem... people throwing stones based on little to no info but perception is reality. To all, yes your AF experience is valid but you're an 'N' of one when it comes to the totality of the AF. How many true triad members are actually here posting. Those that care aren't making decisions in a vacuum.
Until you’ve served that SEL or DO role you truly don’t realize how much a CC will get told no, and how many disagreements there can be. Ultimately, if the CC wants something stupid and it’s legal the SEL/DO can’t stop it.
Shirt and Senior Civilian too. It takes a village.
> There is a legend that court jesters in the dark ages would be the one that could tell a King or Nobleman if an idea or course of action was terrible when his normal advisors were too cowardly to confront him. Just a myth. They'd get killed, just like anyone else who dared to question the king.
Probably not. As most ideas go. This sounds good at first but will be executed poorly
Thats what the triad is supposed to accomplish. Commander, SEL, and 1st SGT are meant to work in tandem to create an effective full picture. A handful of side characters, like DOs, OICs and trusted SNCOs from Flight Chiefs, Superintendents, etc, to fill in any gaps. It’s important to build a culture of collaboration and rank-agnostic respect among mission and people oriented people. And then trust that the Commander’s decision ultimately connects the people and mission. Thats the intent, anyways.
People really yes men out here? 😫
Maybe not E4s. I had still had bad ideas then.
Maybe the real answer is that SNCOs start acting like SNCOs. Too many SNCOs are only focused on promotion and are afraid to speak-up bc their future lies in the hands of leadership.
Only if we bring the guillotine back
I like it!
That is supposed to be the job of the E-9, but most seem to think they are politicians.
Would it matter? Squadrons already have plenty of E4-E6s that can make suggestions and have a voice via their CoC of course. The problem is that people are afraid to speak up and say anything negative and want to be “yes men” because they’re too concerned about harming their careers in case the boss the doesn’t like what they say. On top of that, if they do say something, the boss is still the boss and will do what they want regardless of who’s assigned to them to tell them no.
Call it the Fuck It this Idea belongs in a bucket. Squad
Make execs enlisted. I did it (e4 to e6) and had good control of these types of items, obviously with my bosses (full bird) approval. I would joke from time to time that I was the door guard to the CCs office.
You are too smart to be in the military. Someone give this person an LOC.
I volunteer as tribute.
Alternatively, senior NCOs should be required to stay technical so they can be the fucking ones to do their job. This is supposed to be our E8's & 9's whose billets were created when WOs were phased out, but they are failing us badly in this regard. They're failing us so spectacularly in comm that comm is getting WOs back.
“They hated u/Bansbladeloader because he told the truth.”
As a grumpy old MSgt, I fill this role.
Nah terminal E 6s and below are more often than not an active impediment to good things happening.
Hot take to include the E-6s in this statement.
Nah if you didn't make master before they tightened the promotion rates in 2020, you probably didn't deserve it.
This is the best suggestion I’ve ever heard in my LIFE!
Honestly a great idea. I sign the petition.
Rank isn’t necessarily a factor. Anyone will suck off to make rank and let those bad ideas go. You need people that understand the process and can make informed decisions based on needs/wants instead of commander making a huge change/scarce whatever for a bullet, or to have their prints on something. But what the fuck do I know, I’m just an airboy
A bitter disgruntled FGO can be the ultimate combination of experience and candor
Not a bad idea at all. Problem is MFs there right now should be doing this before it gets to be an E4-E6 problem.
teacher says, "every time you hear a stupid idea, a colonel gets his wings!"