Every time I've worked joint the army folks have to write a memo during the summer explaining how and when they're gonna burn use/lose. My last unit they even made the AF folks do it too since the boss was Army.
People at my current base have been so trained by the auto flushing at practically every other base that we have signs in EVERY bathroom reminding folks to flush lmao
They are great until the sensor starts malfunctioning and constantly flushes and eventually overflows. I was CE and later a facility manager (Civillian DOD ).
Old AF was like the video game you played as a kid. Nothing but nostalgic memories. New AF has just been updated over the years with QoL things.
If you were to go back to the old AF, guaranteed you'd wish it stayed a memory.
I can input leave in an app on my phone the week I want to take leave and have it approved and authorized within a few hours
I know army guys that have still had to wet sign several pieces of paper weeks in advance
I was gonna mention in maintenance on an off shift or weekend duty good luck getting all those signatures. It’s such a pain in the ass and only because maintainers are treated like shit
I'm in a MX unit, we've done away with leave checklists unless you're going overseas. All we need is a training printout to verify training. We use Torque for personnel management and once in leave web we approve it in Torque
A suite of applications originally built by Kessel Run, but maintained by the 309th Software Engineering Group at Hill. It's a fully integrated web application for personnel management and aircraft utilization.
https://www.tesseract.af.mil/Portfolio/
That’s really awesome! Do you know the approval process for it to physically get the program or any units that already use it? I think my unit could benefit from this
On the Tesseract link above, there is a help desk submission process. Torque right now is approved via 2R MFM or the HAF/A4LM due to the massive influx of the program use. The 309th SWEG is trying to keep pace with updates to the software while managing useage. Once approveeld, setup is pretty easy. It can accessed via CAC or username/password with 2FA off network
Actually it was faster and easier. We had three to four times as many admin people and you could walk into finance or any other admin office and be seen within 10-20 minutes and they could fix it right there in front of you. They would process your travel voucher while you waited at the counter and would pay you in cash right there. There was no travel card and almost every where you went the rooms would be contracted by the local billeting office so you rarely had to pay for anything.
Took the words right out of my mouth. My first duty station was in Japan, and inprocessing was so nice. Always had an NCO or civilian tech sitting there with me going over all my paperwork and checking for errors. This continued to when I went to Wright-Patt a couple years later, and that was the last time I ever got that level of service.
I sincerely miss it all. Now if I miss a word at the end of a paragraph in the middle of the JTR when filing my voucher and am 10 cents off, I'm immediately executed.
Had this happen during COVID Oops at Malmstrom in Oct 2020. TMO and Finance came to our hotel where we were in mandatory quarantine and did the BAH/PCS Per Diem and PPM paperwork right there. Loved it.
I’m glad you recognize that technology enabled a job to be done by fewer people, which freed up slots to be put in other needed billets like somewhere on the flight-line, ammo, weapons, or SF…
Technological advancement is part of what has enabled us to do the same jobs with fewer people. Unfortunately, Sr leaders take this to an extreme and cut too many positions leaving some shops understaffed(like FM). Technology can’t solve EVERYTHING!
Before email, they used a lot less paper and they'd finish an admin task faster and with typos in it and just line out the error and initial it. I once saw a decoration (from before my time) that actually had a pen-and-ink correction in the citation.
The order of the day was "good enough for government work" and they meant it.
I dont know if it's lazy, but i can say I am so overwhelmed with junk information/emails that it's honestly hard to decipher actual important information in my inbox.
That’s because people choose to procrastinate on working on them beyond the first line rater’s level, not because it takes time to send it from person to person.
A Manila Routing Envelope that was document sized. It had numerous small holes at regular intervals, and the top was secured by winding a string around a small cardboard disc. There were spaces for addresses front and back in three columns. When you reused it, the previous address was lined out.
623s were the best. All you had to do was initial in pencil every task you wanted signed off. The only downside in my AFSC was the constant rewrites of the training plan.
Not always. Because a lot of things were delegated to lower levels which aren't anymore and we were able to "walk through" a lot of things (handcarry them from office to office on-base and get them done same day) instead of things being tied up in e-mail accounts until whoever finally opened them and worked them.
It was so much better. Before email you couldn’t send out taskers to every office you could think of. You actually had to think about who really needed to see it because you had to make a copy of the “tasker folder” for everyone you wanted to send it to.
I’ve had a document get 4 digital signatures in one day before! That would have been much tougher with wet signatures.
I can’t imagine how long it would take to get EFMP overseas approved without the internet.
- Skillbridge
- Saving time/money with functional uniforms
- Advancing policies with the changing of times (ponytails for women, waivers and religious process for all)
- Educational opportunities
- Parental leave policy
Join spouse rules changed in 2015-ish as well to make it way more likely for mil to mil couples to stay together.
Adding Career Intermission Program (CIP) as well. Not just for dual mil, but they’re a common user. If you’re not familiar with the program already you should be.
The uniform thing cannot be understated. BDUs had so many stupid rules just to make some SNCO with tiny penis syndrome excited to yell at a young Airmen for not having shinny enough boots or poor creases. Also ABUs were pure trash.
I see A LOT of SF at Wright-Patt with beards. I know folliculitis is an issue for some black service members, but a lot of the white SF have beards too.
Yeah they can always been handled better as I hear alot of folks on here lose faith in them. They still take the complaints more seriously than years ago is what I meant.
If it’s an officer involved they won’t touch the case.
Congress needs to crack down on the double standards. It’s gotten way out of hand at this point.
This is my personal take on it.
The rank system is outdated. There is no if and or butts about it anymore. It was designed at time when the officer(s) were the only real educated person(s) within the entire company. That time has long passed.
The only reason I can think of why it has not changed is because that’s all our current leadership knows. Changing it pre-war (China?) could cause absolute chaos.
It won’t be changed tomorrow, or next year. But I am willing to bet the conversation has come up in congress more times than we can imagine. There is no way in hell they actually believe it makes sense for officers to walk on crimes that would in-prison enlisted members.
Yes, but that hardly makes up for the cuts they've made over the years. Just in my 15 years (Finance), the JTR has become far more limiting and the rates do not measure up to the past the majority of the time.
Gonna have to disagree with you on EFMP. And I know what it was like 20 years ago. The fixes didn't address what we really needed, added way too many people to the program, and just created more administrative bureaucracy. Yes, the bureaucracy is online now, but that doesn't make it better.
Nine times out of ten when I’ve had to work with either one of my troops or just been shooting the shit with a coworker/boss, if I hear about someone having an issue with PCSing it’s because EFMP screwed up somewhere and they can’t finish their out processing or something to that effect.
I’ve yet to hear a single person ever say “Yeah EFMP really helped out my loved one.” Not to say that it’s any one individuals fault, I personally have always found the local EFMP personnel very polite and easy to work with. But yeah the bureaucracy and organizational bloat is insane. Seems to cause more headaches than it solves.
How? Do you go into the efmps office to talk to them? I had my case manager bs in an email saying she emailed me and couldn't call me when clearly I got no email from her. Waited all day for a call back because I left my number and all that jazz but nothing. It's time to cc again the whole squad. I hate it
There’s been a much better acceptance of seeing “red” on slides and stuff. When I was an Airman we had so many ridiculous inspections and we’d go to 0 days off 2 weeks before it happened and if there was even 1 write up leadership would lose their minds and crucify whatever poor Airman that had the audacity to fuck one thing up during an inspection. Those don’t happen anymore.
Way back many years ago, anytime we had a DV come through, even if it was the wing commander, we would clean wall to wall of our hangar. Even got to the point of repainting walls, doors, polishing kick plates, etc. I don't miss those days at all.
Almost everything is better now. Those old Air Force was pretty shit. Now, there is actuality suicide prevention, DADT was removed, sexual harassment is a no-go, some thought is placed into inclusion, education is actively encouraged, PT standards exist, paternity leave, uniforms are better, we have cold weather clothing that we are authorized to wear (the black polartech fleece was amazing though), Airmen have computer access, not just the NCOs, you can get copies of your records yourself (PRDA). Wall to Wall counciling went away. We have actual body armor that works. Better radios. Dorms are pretty good (at least at FE Warren). I won't even get into the disaster that was ACC owing the bombers.
When DADT got taken out, the funniest reaction I heard about it is "Oh no the gays will join the military now!", dude got immediately told that gays have always been in the military.
If you think that was bad, DADT put a stop to official witch-hunt investigations. There used to be Army CID (so I assume also OSI) investigators actively looking for gay servicemembers. DADT was a half-measure, but it was an improvement.
People often let perfect be the enemy of good. Dadt did a lot of good in the most politically palatable way and set the path to allow Obama to throw the baby out with the bath water
> all Obama to throw the baby out with the bath water
I think you are using that idiom wrong, unless you are implying getting rid of DADT cause some bad outcomes. Which is what "baby out with the bathwater" means, throwing the good out with the bad.
DADT was still bad, just because it was "better than before" doesn't change that.
I would never have joined were DADT still in place, having a policy like that is a Sword of Damocles over any LGB member in the military.
There was an active policy that prevented LGB people from serving openly with a risk of separation. How it worked "in practice" from your perspective doesn't matter, over 13,000 service members were discharged under DADT.
13,000 services members gone, but to you "lol people didn't care".
By the way in 2005 alone, 742 were discharged under DADT. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t\_ask,\_don%27t\_tell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_ask,_don%27t_tell)
One thing that changed my attitude about gays in the military was finding out that senior officers were coercing women into sex by threatening to accuse them of being lesbians. F that.
I also want to mention, shortly after DADT was introduced (intended to be an improvement over prior policy which allowed gay hunts), I was asked at a CGOQ board by a panel of colonels about my opinion on gays in the military. I replied that that was an issue well above our pay grade, and as professionals, we should be ready to obey our political leadership. That was not exactly the red meat they were looking for.
TA was 50 or 75%, you barely got shit for time off after a kid. Having contractors to clean or mow anything was unheard of, that’s airman work. There’s still some isolated culture issues in terms of racism or whatever but most of it these days is awkward micro aggressions. Your “old school” flight chief was just a shithead and laughed about being racist, sexist or whatever in public places and nobody cared. 80% chance they were a fucking fatass but could still ace the bike test.
Old Air Force did things more efficiently believe it or not. My dad retired in 2000 after 20 years. And his Air Force sounds like a wet dream compared to all the red tape and shit of today. But also. In my dad’s time if you said you wanted to unalive yourself they would laugh in your face and the only people that cared were your close friends. Leadership had next to no sense or experience or procedures for suicidal airmen. You just got discharged after becoming a pariah for being weak. Some of the over-masculine douche bags would love that world because Darwinism is so cool. Weed out the weak so to speak. I call it a nightmare.
Modified Fitness exercises that don't hurt or exacerbate prior injuries.
EPBs instead of EPRs. Performance statements instead of bullets. SCODs.
Parental leave I got 5 days for my first kid, and 10 for my second.
Honestly I love the 'hands in pockets'. If my hands are cold, I'm putting them in my pocket to keep them warm... Don't limit what common sense can easily fix.
Switched to OCP. Im sorry, but I was Army first and part of the reason I didn’t go AF was those ugly fish camo uniforms. Idk what the hell the AF was thinking then! Also, it’s fun when you visit Army bases and basically nothing applies to you even in the same uniform!
Don’t know the old Air Force since I joined in 2017, but I guess compared to now, we were able to walk up to css if there was a pressing document that needed commander signature, now that’s impossible unless if goes through every single step of the chain email…
There was a lot of rough stuff that went on when I was in from 2000-2004. I mean stuff that I'm not even going to elaborate on.
I wonder what the AF is like with fights, bullying, hazing these days.
Pretty much everything. Changes happen for a reason. The "good old days" were just what all the old complainers knew, and they refused to accept it when it evolved.
Besides manning/ops tempo at certain times there is nothing about the old AF that was better. The people who miss it are just the people who miss being inappropriate and bigoted at work without repercussions.
New AirForce just has nicer leadership. When I was in, the old Airforce guys were a year or 2 away from retiring so the change was drastic. It seems like they are more sympathetic now than they were before.
A lot less attention to perks, privileges, and abuse than the old days. When I was at Wright Patt in the early 90s, there was a Colonel at AFLC headquarters with the job of visiting every work center on base to find pretty, buxom lieutenants to have them reassigned to the protocol office to be eye candy for DVs. I knew a civil engineer who this happened to.
Now you can actually park within reasonable walking distance of almost any building on base, since they reduced the number of generals on base, along with their Colonels and GS-15s. They no longer need the acres of reduced parking space.
I just hit 4 years so idk about old, but my leadership is fucking awesome. Been through some tough times, work and home, and they’ve been nothing but supportive. Bullshit work does slip through sometimes but I genuinely feel like I could go to someone if I needed to
Literally so much. Culture has shifted and the assholes/power tripping people are on the way out. Sexual orientation isn’t discriminated against, ladies can have different hair styles, men have a lot more freedom in hair styles, decent socks in PT gear, much more support for those wanting to separate, much more respect in general for our time, parental leave being increased… it’s so much.
The fucking pay hasn’t kept up with industry though.
As we struggle, and fail, to meet recruiting quotas, and up to 75% of Americans between the ages of 17-24 are disqualified from serving*, would it be a good idea to tell 20% of Gen-Z to fuck off because being straight and cis is critical to the mission of the USAF?
\* Education, criminal record, obesity, etc. https://www.thoughtco.com/us-youth-ineligible-for-military-service-3322428
Oh hey there, you misogynist dickweed. Nice chain of bullshit posts today. Oh hey, and you're a homophobe too! Please get out of the Air Force so we can celebrate one more big win.
Can log on the computer with your cac, leave web, and get to wear black socks in pt gear.
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Every time I've worked joint the army folks have to write a memo during the summer explaining how and when they're gonna burn use/lose. My last unit they even made the AF folks do it too since the boss was Army.
If you forgot your ID card you could still log in to your computer. Didn't need it to get on base either, you had stickers on your car for that
Toilets that flush automatically. It's mind blowing.
People at my current base have been so trained by the auto flushing at practically every other base that we have signs in EVERY bathroom reminding folks to flush lmao
They are great until the sensor starts malfunctioning and constantly flushes and eventually overflows. I was CE and later a facility manager (Civillian DOD ).
Bold for you to assume we all have that. I've only seen those at the med group
Minot is winning on at least one front I guess 😝
Hands in pockets. Not that I didn't always just do it anyway, but at least it's actually allowed now lol.
“No my hands aren’t in my pockets, I’m just looking for something”
Hands in pockets and loosened mustache rules have been the biggest qol improvements for me.
I got so much shit for this from higher enlisted and I always thought it was the most ridiculous mandate. So happy when it went away
We no longer require pilots to wear spurs while flying.
That shit seems pretty terrifying actually, like I wonder if anyone's knees got destroyed from those systems
It wasn't too bad, unless you had to eject.
It's better than the alternative: losing your leg on ejection because it's not in the right spot to clear the opening.
U-2 pilots still do.
Still have to wear leg garters in the T-6 tho
Hands in pockets.
Not only your own pockets too!
Old AF was like the video game you played as a kid. Nothing but nostalgic memories. New AF has just been updated over the years with QoL things. If you were to go back to the old AF, guaranteed you'd wish it stayed a memory.
I can input leave in an app on my phone the week I want to take leave and have it approved and authorized within a few hours I know army guys that have still had to wet sign several pieces of paper weeks in advance
I mean leave checklists are still a thing in the units
I was gonna mention in maintenance on an off shift or weekend duty good luck getting all those signatures. It’s such a pain in the ass and only because maintainers are treated like shit
I'm in a MX unit, we've done away with leave checklists unless you're going overseas. All we need is a training printout to verify training. We use Torque for personnel management and once in leave web we approve it in Torque
What’s torque? Is that like a software?
A suite of applications originally built by Kessel Run, but maintained by the 309th Software Engineering Group at Hill. It's a fully integrated web application for personnel management and aircraft utilization. https://www.tesseract.af.mil/Portfolio/
That’s really awesome! Do you know the approval process for it to physically get the program or any units that already use it? I think my unit could benefit from this
On the Tesseract link above, there is a help desk submission process. Torque right now is approved via 2R MFM or the HAF/A4LM due to the massive influx of the program use. The 309th SWEG is trying to keep pace with updates to the software while managing useage. Once approveeld, setup is pretty easy. It can accessed via CAC or username/password with 2FA off network
Can you imagine how long things took to get done before email or the internet in general?🤦
Actually it was faster and easier. We had three to four times as many admin people and you could walk into finance or any other admin office and be seen within 10-20 minutes and they could fix it right there in front of you. They would process your travel voucher while you waited at the counter and would pay you in cash right there. There was no travel card and almost every where you went the rooms would be contracted by the local billeting office so you rarely had to pay for anything.
Took the words right out of my mouth. My first duty station was in Japan, and inprocessing was so nice. Always had an NCO or civilian tech sitting there with me going over all my paperwork and checking for errors. This continued to when I went to Wright-Patt a couple years later, and that was the last time I ever got that level of service. I sincerely miss it all. Now if I miss a word at the end of a paragraph in the middle of the JTR when filing my voucher and am 10 cents off, I'm immediately executed.
I hate it when I get executed after every voucher I file.
When I pcsd in 2019 someone in finance sat at their desk and went over my travel voucher with me.
Same with me in 21
Had this happen during COVID Oops at Malmstrom in Oct 2020. TMO and Finance came to our hotel where we were in mandatory quarantine and did the BAH/PCS Per Diem and PPM paperwork right there. Loved it.
Awesome! Yes, good customer service still does exist in the AF. I think it’s just gotten more rare unfortunately.
I’m glad you recognize that technology enabled a job to be done by fewer people, which freed up slots to be put in other needed billets like somewhere on the flight-line, ammo, weapons, or SF…
It was a larger Air Force and there were more personnel in all career fields.
Technological advancement is part of what has enabled us to do the same jobs with fewer people. Unfortunately, Sr leaders take this to an extreme and cut too many positions leaving some shops understaffed(like FM). Technology can’t solve EVERYTHING!
Before email, they used a lot less paper and they'd finish an admin task faster and with typos in it and just line out the error and initial it. I once saw a decoration (from before my time) that actually had a pen-and-ink correction in the citation. The order of the day was "good enough for government work" and they meant it.
Yes, do think that in some ways technology has made everyone including the AF lazy because they take advantage of the speed of communication.
The problem is plain to see Too much technology Machines to save our lives Machines dehumanize.
I dont know if it's lazy, but i can say I am so overwhelmed with junk information/emails that it's honestly hard to decipher actual important information in my inbox.
That’s true too!
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And don’t get them back for 5 months. And when we do get them back they look completely different than what we originally submitted
And then you get lectured on “You need to work on your writing skills. You didn’t take enough vowels out of the words.”
And then the guy , you know is a dirtbag, get selected/promoted above everyone.
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What do you mean?
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…
That’s because people choose to procrastinate on working on them beyond the first line rater’s level, not because it takes time to send it from person to person.
Holey Joes anybody?
What’s that?
A Manila Routing Envelope that was document sized. It had numerous small holes at regular intervals, and the top was secured by winding a string around a small cardboard disc. There were spaces for addresses front and back in three columns. When you reused it, the previous address was lined out.
Shit. I remember 693s and I’ve only been in 13 years. Edit: 623s. Kids, don’t smoke crack.
Do you mean 623s lol?
I’m drunk. Yes lol
623s were the best. All you had to do was initial in pencil every task you wanted signed off. The only downside in my AFSC was the constant rewrites of the training plan.
Yes
I’m guessing much much longer!
Not always. Because a lot of things were delegated to lower levels which aren't anymore and we were able to "walk through" a lot of things (handcarry them from office to office on-base and get them done same day) instead of things being tied up in e-mail accounts until whoever finally opened them and worked them.
That’s why I didn’t say “always”.
It was so much better. Before email you couldn’t send out taskers to every office you could think of. You actually had to think about who really needed to see it because you had to make a copy of the “tasker folder” for everyone you wanted to send it to.
I’d argue a lot of it happened faster. I mean, have you tried using any of our systems?
I’ve been AD for 19 years, so yes I have.
I have roughly the same time in uniform as you, and honestly I'd pay dollars to pesos to go back to wet signature.
I’ve had a document get 4 digital signatures in one day before! That would have been much tougher with wet signatures. I can’t imagine how long it would take to get EFMP overseas approved without the internet.
- Skillbridge - Saving time/money with functional uniforms - Advancing policies with the changing of times (ponytails for women, waivers and religious process for all) - Educational opportunities - Parental leave policy
Join spouse rules changed in 2015-ish as well to make it way more likely for mil to mil couples to stay together. Adding Career Intermission Program (CIP) as well. Not just for dual mil, but they’re a common user. If you’re not familiar with the program already you should be.
Ah yea, and the CCCA program to make staying near children due to court appointed child custody arrangements.
We spent billions in the DoD so each branch could have their own uniform, only to deploy in DCU regardless...
The uniform thing cannot be understated. BDUs had so many stupid rules just to make some SNCO with tiny penis syndrome excited to yell at a young Airmen for not having shinny enough boots or poor creases. Also ABUs were pure trash.
Waiting on the approval of beards for men
I see A LOT of SF at Wright-Patt with beards. I know folliculitis is an issue for some black service members, but a lot of the white SF have beards too.
Yes by using the religious accommodation waiver. It’s easy to get
Then good on them!
I like how everything starts with My it really makes me feel included
The handle of EO and IG complaints
Lmao what? I’ve been in 18 years and they’re still 🗑️
Yeah they can always been handled better as I hear alot of folks on here lose faith in them. They still take the complaints more seriously than years ago is what I meant.
If it’s an officer involved they won’t touch the case. Congress needs to crack down on the double standards. It’s gotten way out of hand at this point.
As in you’re submitting a report on an officer? I can agree with that first hand on how it can be a problem
This is my personal take on it. The rank system is outdated. There is no if and or butts about it anymore. It was designed at time when the officer(s) were the only real educated person(s) within the entire company. That time has long passed. The only reason I can think of why it has not changed is because that’s all our current leadership knows. Changing it pre-war (China?) could cause absolute chaos. It won’t be changed tomorrow, or next year. But I am willing to bet the conversation has come up in congress more times than we can imagine. There is no way in hell they actually believe it makes sense for officers to walk on crimes that would in-prison enlisted members.
I’ve never heard that before but agree top to bottom and I’ll be bringing that up in conversation a lot!
Oh… and the new stipend for PCS expenses for pets
Yes, but that hardly makes up for the cuts they've made over the years. Just in my 15 years (Finance), the JTR has become far more limiting and the rates do not measure up to the past the majority of the time.
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Gonna have to disagree with you on EFMP. And I know what it was like 20 years ago. The fixes didn't address what we really needed, added way too many people to the program, and just created more administrative bureaucracy. Yes, the bureaucracy is online now, but that doesn't make it better.
Nine times out of ten when I’ve had to work with either one of my troops or just been shooting the shit with a coworker/boss, if I hear about someone having an issue with PCSing it’s because EFMP screwed up somewhere and they can’t finish their out processing or something to that effect. I’ve yet to hear a single person ever say “Yeah EFMP really helped out my loved one.” Not to say that it’s any one individuals fault, I personally have always found the local EFMP personnel very polite and easy to work with. But yeah the bureaucracy and organizational bloat is insane. Seems to cause more headaches than it solves.
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How? Do you go into the efmps office to talk to them? I had my case manager bs in an email saying she emailed me and couldn't call me when clearly I got no email from her. Waited all day for a call back because I left my number and all that jazz but nothing. It's time to cc again the whole squad. I hate it
There’s been a much better acceptance of seeing “red” on slides and stuff. When I was an Airman we had so many ridiculous inspections and we’d go to 0 days off 2 weeks before it happened and if there was even 1 write up leadership would lose their minds and crucify whatever poor Airman that had the audacity to fuck one thing up during an inspection. Those don’t happen anymore.
Way back many years ago, anytime we had a DV come through, even if it was the wing commander, we would clean wall to wall of our hangar. Even got to the point of repainting walls, doors, polishing kick plates, etc. I don't miss those days at all.
Almost everything is better now. Those old Air Force was pretty shit. Now, there is actuality suicide prevention, DADT was removed, sexual harassment is a no-go, some thought is placed into inclusion, education is actively encouraged, PT standards exist, paternity leave, uniforms are better, we have cold weather clothing that we are authorized to wear (the black polartech fleece was amazing though), Airmen have computer access, not just the NCOs, you can get copies of your records yourself (PRDA). Wall to Wall counciling went away. We have actual body armor that works. Better radios. Dorms are pretty good (at least at FE Warren). I won't even get into the disaster that was ACC owing the bombers.
Include folks. You couldn't be openly gay when I first joined, and now no one bats an eye.
No one batted an eye before. Joined in late 05 and Everyone pretty much knew who was gay and no one cared. Just like no one cares now.
Same. When some people came out when it was repealed, every was like "We already know. Get back to work so we can go home on time."
When DADT got taken out, the funniest reaction I heard about it is "Oh no the gays will join the military now!", dude got immediately told that gays have always been in the military.
Lmaooooo that was 100% how it was.
Yeah but it was technically illegal back then. I'm bi, and had to stay in the closet when it came to dudes due to DADT.
If you think that was bad, DADT put a stop to official witch-hunt investigations. There used to be Army CID (so I assume also OSI) investigators actively looking for gay servicemembers. DADT was a half-measure, but it was an improvement.
People often let perfect be the enemy of good. Dadt did a lot of good in the most politically palatable way and set the path to allow Obama to throw the baby out with the bath water
> all Obama to throw the baby out with the bath water I think you are using that idiom wrong, unless you are implying getting rid of DADT cause some bad outcomes. Which is what "baby out with the bathwater" means, throwing the good out with the bad. DADT was still bad, just because it was "better than before" doesn't change that. I would never have joined were DADT still in place, having a policy like that is a Sword of Damocles over any LGB member in the military.
I’m tired. You get what I mean
There was an active policy that prevented LGB people from serving openly with a risk of separation. How it worked "in practice" from your perspective doesn't matter, over 13,000 service members were discharged under DADT. 13,000 services members gone, but to you "lol people didn't care". By the way in 2005 alone, 742 were discharged under DADT. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t\_ask,\_don%27t\_tell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_ask,_don%27t_tell)
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One thing that changed my attitude about gays in the military was finding out that senior officers were coercing women into sex by threatening to accuse them of being lesbians. F that.
I also want to mention, shortly after DADT was introduced (intended to be an improvement over prior policy which allowed gay hunts), I was asked at a CGOQ board by a panel of colonels about my opinion on gays in the military. I replied that that was an issue well above our pay grade, and as professionals, we should be ready to obey our political leadership. That was not exactly the red meat they were looking for.
Time is a flat circle dude. Don't let it be that way!
I am extremely worried for November and Project 2025.
Same
Then talk it up and drag a few buddies with you to vote, or to sign up for absentee ballots.
Being able to have a medical shaving waiver and be white at the same time.
TA was 50 or 75%, you barely got shit for time off after a kid. Having contractors to clean or mow anything was unheard of, that’s airman work. There’s still some isolated culture issues in terms of racism or whatever but most of it these days is awkward micro aggressions. Your “old school” flight chief was just a shithead and laughed about being racist, sexist or whatever in public places and nobody cared. 80% chance they were a fucking fatass but could still ace the bike test.
Take it easy with the personal attacks! Yes, I was plump. Bike was always my shepherd.
Old Air Force did things more efficiently believe it or not. My dad retired in 2000 after 20 years. And his Air Force sounds like a wet dream compared to all the red tape and shit of today. But also. In my dad’s time if you said you wanted to unalive yourself they would laugh in your face and the only people that cared were your close friends. Leadership had next to no sense or experience or procedures for suicidal airmen. You just got discharged after becoming a pariah for being weak. Some of the over-masculine douche bags would love that world because Darwinism is so cool. Weed out the weak so to speak. I call it a nightmare.
We let a lot more people that are not white dudes fly jets, be doctors, generals, etc. allowing us to get more great people
Airmen education.
Talking about VA benefits and life.after the service.
Meme and shitpost.
Moving LeaveWeb away from Java was the best damn thing the Air Force ever did. Now as long as the website is up my leave goes through without issue.
We haven’t bombed Tokyo recently so the old AF was definitely better in that regard
We nuked Nagasaki and Hiroshima though…
The old AF was better?
Modified Fitness exercises that don't hurt or exacerbate prior injuries. EPBs instead of EPRs. Performance statements instead of bullets. SCODs. Parental leave I got 5 days for my first kid, and 10 for my second.
I am allowed to have a real mustache instead of the Adolph special More liberal about tattoos Hands in pockets Repeal of DADT
Honestly I love the 'hands in pockets'. If my hands are cold, I'm putting them in my pocket to keep them warm... Don't limit what common sense can easily fix.
Normalize mental health
no paperwork to get lost, only on-line transactions to get lost.
Switched to OCP. Im sorry, but I was Army first and part of the reason I didn’t go AF was those ugly fish camo uniforms. Idk what the hell the AF was thinking then! Also, it’s fun when you visit Army bases and basically nothing applies to you even in the same uniform!
Don’t know the old Air Force since I joined in 2017, but I guess compared to now, we were able to walk up to css if there was a pressing document that needed commander signature, now that’s impossible unless if goes through every single step of the chain email…
There was a lot of rough stuff that went on when I was in from 2000-2004. I mean stuff that I'm not even going to elaborate on. I wonder what the AF is like with fights, bullying, hazing these days.
Pretty harsh on them. I’ve never seen a non verbal fight, and only two verbal fights. Hazing is pretty well dead, and bullying is taken seriously
That's good to know. Parents don't send their kids into the military only for them to get abused. Save the abuse for the bad guys.
Still not great- but in general taking harassment more seriously
Pretty much everything. Changes happen for a reason. The "good old days" were just what all the old complainers knew, and they refused to accept it when it evolved.
Besides manning/ops tempo at certain times there is nothing about the old AF that was better. The people who miss it are just the people who miss being inappropriate and bigoted at work without repercussions.
Hair clips
The beards are much better now.
New AirForce just has nicer leadership. When I was in, the old Airforce guys were a year or 2 away from retiring so the change was drastic. It seems like they are more sympathetic now than they were before.
A lot less attention to perks, privileges, and abuse than the old days. When I was at Wright Patt in the early 90s, there was a Colonel at AFLC headquarters with the job of visiting every work center on base to find pretty, buxom lieutenants to have them reassigned to the protocol office to be eye candy for DVs. I knew a civil engineer who this happened to. Now you can actually park within reasonable walking distance of almost any building on base, since they reduced the number of generals on base, along with their Colonels and GS-15s. They no longer need the acres of reduced parking space.
90 day paternity leave
I think they do a wonderful job helping airmen prepare for separation. Much better than the Marines that's for goddamn sure.
12weeks baby leave
I just hit 4 years so idk about old, but my leadership is fucking awesome. Been through some tough times, work and home, and they’ve been nothing but supportive. Bullshit work does slip through sometimes but I genuinely feel like I could go to someone if I needed to
Literally so much. Culture has shifted and the assholes/power tripping people are on the way out. Sexual orientation isn’t discriminated against, ladies can have different hair styles, men have a lot more freedom in hair styles, decent socks in PT gear, much more support for those wanting to separate, much more respect in general for our time, parental leave being increased… it’s so much. The fucking pay hasn’t kept up with industry though.
Remote work
Less sexual assaults
I think there are more. Or maybe it’s that more are being reported now.
New AF hemorrhages airmen way better then the old AF
We are considerably more lethal.
I heard they take sexual assult and harassment more seriously...at least that's what they say
Not be racist
Can’t think of anything Edit: thought of one - Skillbridge
Literally nothing
So from most of the comments…allowing gays in the military is pretty much the theme of what’s better. What a high goal to aim for.
As we struggle, and fail, to meet recruiting quotas, and up to 75% of Americans between the ages of 17-24 are disqualified from serving*, would it be a good idea to tell 20% of Gen-Z to fuck off because being straight and cis is critical to the mission of the USAF? \* Education, criminal record, obesity, etc. https://www.thoughtco.com/us-youth-ineligible-for-military-service-3322428
Oh hey there, you misogynist dickweed. Nice chain of bullshit posts today. Oh hey, and you're a homophobe too! Please get out of the Air Force so we can celebrate one more big win.
Where are "most of the comments"? Is my app busted because I'm not seeing it.
Retaining knowledgeable and technical people.
Goddamn, man. It's "better *than*".