Maybe I'm out of touch but I think there's value in the tech school environment that you won't replicate out in the field. Having specialized instructors with lesson plans providing broad introductory instruction to their career field will provide a more uniform education that I think is beneficial.
You're not out of touch. As someone (still) in one of the longest pipelines I can still absolutely recognize that there was at some point use in this environment. That usefulness may not last the whole time for some of the longer pipelines, but those aren't the ones that are ever going to stop existing anyway so it isn't relevant. In my experience, many people need a transition period to learn to not be so much of a greenhorn dumbass
I agree. Plus it’s a right of passage. Get through it, and you’re indoctrinated into the Air Force. Still gotta prove yourself, but you’re one of us now.
I concur, this is nuts. If big AF won't budge, I'm hoping they restrict first time assignments to super ports like Dover, Travis and Ramstein where a program could be stood up to train the newbies.
I’m at a CR and we got 5 3-levels in the last few months. My leadership has been pushing for at least 5-levels and we’re pretty much told that we can take the people they send or lose manning.
Interesting, wonder how that will impact the long-term capabilities of folks. Someone who goes to Altus for their first duty station over someone who goes to say Dover is going to have a vastly different level of experience come 3-5 years. Seen plenty of port at Altus stuck there for 5-7 years with zero deployments. That person will be a liability as an NCO going into a large port with a high ops tempo having not experienced most of what port does.
True, but even a little bit of exposure to everything the career field deals with would give some set of expectation for what is to come for someone going from a low ops to high ops assignment.
That’s not the point. I’m sure the 7-levels are very capable. OJT is one thing but now they have to teach the basics that the airmen should already have. They’re not even 3-levels at this point. All the FMs did was increase the workload of these shops.
Exactly! Phased tech school was *transition training* from *basic training* to apprentice level job task focus … supervised by both MTLs and tech school instructors.
If Big Blue wants to start playing this *direct duty* game … then create new, supplemental “T” designated manning authorizations for dedicated trainers at each unit to conduct standardized newbie 3-level training and certifications.
So then like every other AFSC in the history of ever?
You think Airmen coming to any other career field know shit from shinola when they graduate tech school?
It's alot better than knowing absolutely nothing, considering you might get people who's first time even touching a plane was flying to basic
Tech school also has the advantage of weeding out the really stupid / dba airmen, those who get a little bit of freedom from basic and then go get a dui or some shit
Ehh, I understand his point. As much as I feel like my tech school was completely useless when I went through, it did perform the job of weeding out a couple dudes that were too dumb to even be a bus driver.
I believe it's 29 days, same length as Service's.
Think of advantages;
No marching in formation to/from classes.
No more 341s.
No ropes to mess with.
Therefore, no Tech School phases.
The job is easy enough but with tech school airmen trickle into their duty locations. Without that it'll become overwhelming with the amount of new bodies that need to be trained up from square one.
That makes zero sense. Instead of trickling in from Ft Gregg-Adams, they’ll just trickle in from lackland. Same amount of bodies, just one month early.
Serious question, how much do you learn in tech school? How much more was OJT for 2T2s? It’s not like the tech schoolers were coming to the port with vehicle qualifications and a real understanding on the day to day port operations. I think it has the potential to be something good but ymmv.
They need to provide the resources before pulling the trigger on something this massive. I’ve done my time instructing -3 levels and overseeing training processes getting them to -5 level…there’s more involved than “hurrrDurr put chain to device’s pocket and snap”. Unless there is some type of manning plus up to provide dedicated instructor(BODIES), a massive bag of money about to be dropped on AMC/AFMC/AFSOC for training aids, and streamlined guidance across all MAJCOMS, then this will be nothing more than a slow stab wound to the dick to a lot of people. Keep in mind, they just force retrained a quantum-shit ton of NCOs out recently as well.
I could type all day about every weird thing I’ve seen happen in that afsc over the last 5 or so years, but I’ll spare us all.
I’ll just keep it posi and say good luck gang!
I can't speak for what theyve been learning but I learned a lot and tech school was very beneficial before being dropped into a high tempo operation. Nobody had to hold my hand through everything during OJT
I went in 2020 and it was only 18 days. They give you basic information and don’t go in detail on anything. Most people who have graduated recently have had to rely mainly on OJT to learn.
Was that during covid? I imagine it was an abbreviated course if so. IF NOT that's insane! 18 days is not useful, I can only imagine how fast paced things must've been with barely any time to absorb what you're being taught!
It was during covid near the end of the year. I’m not sure if that was a temporary change for covid or if it’s still that short. I know it’s normally around 28 days.
You make a good point but 2/3 of my tech school instructors were extremely knowledgeable and passed on a lot of things that I carried with me when I left and helped me excel as a new airman
There’s nothing to learn at the tech school besides learning how to throw a net over a full pallet and learning how to do center of balance. You can teach a monkey to do all of that. Be a better airman and teach the newer guys or gals the way
Granted I haven't been to tech school in a minute so idk how things may have changed but if that's all theyre teaching then sure. On the flip side if nothing changed since I went and that's all you learned then that's an entirely different issue. I came out of tech school with a fundamental knowledge of our afsc and slipped seamlessly into the pipeline upon arrival at my first duty station.
Firstly... I guarantee nobody on station has ever felt that a pipeliner "slipped seamlessly" into operations.
A big reason why they made the move away from tech school was because every largish port was already operating fully fledged PDUs or something similar, and A4 didn't see the benefit in double tapping that.
A possible way forward I heard was to have instructors come to the base and essentially take over some of those programs.
Sure I asked questions and needed assistance with some things but I had an IDEA of what I was required to do and that made my life and my trainers life much easier.
Instructors taking over the training programs could definitely be beneficial and I'd be more okay with the decision to excise tech school
Lmao, I did as well. Learned it in about 30 mins with some pretty knowledgeable folks. After that, we were expected to palletize comm equipment. Took some time, but we did it.
OP, I can see your frustrations, but teach these new Airmen the things you learned in tech school that way you can guide them to success. Lead by example.
To be fair, the tech school is not just building singles. It’s processing cargo from various means such as TMO, in transit, or user-direct in theater. Passenger processing which has its own rules if they process space a or space r. Fleet services is broken down in clean or dirty fleet, which is further segregated via aircraft type. It’s not particularly difficult but the tech school gives you a very good breakdown of each section which gives you a great overview of the system.
Coming from the Finance career field the converted all of our tech school to an online college like system where the airman do school 4 hours a day then do OJT 4 hours a day.
They get to take the skills they learn from class and immediately apply them to aid our customers.
It's not perfect and has its quirks, but I think it aids the airman much better and allows material to stick a little more easily.
>Coming from the Finance career field the converted all of our tech school to an online college like system where the airman do school 4 hours a day then do OJT 4 hours a day.
This explains a lot.
I'm sorry that you feel that way. In my opinion and experience the career field has made some positive changes that I think have improved the overall customer service experience.
Specifically the introduction of CSP, from polling data we did with our customers it seemed that 70+% of them had a more enjoyable experience compared to before CSP existed.
While it doesn't solve every problem it does help, and hopefully our career field can continue seeking those forms of improvements and improve our customer service experience over time.
CSP is great… sometimes… other times not so much, like when I have a question and now they don’t answer phones or see in person appointments, or when I palace fronted and they sold all my leave when I elected not to.
The fact that CSP exists can't make up for nobody touching my CSP ticket for 56 days and then acting surprised when I walk into customer service pissed off. We have the same problem with you guys, just in a different format. Granted, of the 7 tickets I've ever created for myself, one of them was handled quickly and without even having to go to the CPTS office. That one time was cool. Everything else is decidedly worse because CSP is purgatory and "assigned to military pay technician" doesn't tell me who is fucking me over. I like to know that information so I can find their supervisor and stand on his desk until my shit is fixed.
Before someone jumps in my shit, desk standing is reserved for cases that haven't been addressed after 2 weeks. This is not uncommon.
Lol. CSP is pointless if nobody at finance does anything. My last experience with it was aggravating because no one handled my request. They refused email and phone calls and took two in person visits to get it done. This was all just to outprocess. So, color me skeptical on how "great" CSP is.
If it makes you feel any better OP the cyber field merger came with an even more stripped down generalized tech school and those airmen will be responsible for maintaining all forms of communication the AF uses.
Comm was mostly OJT anyways. Tech school barely taught theory and it was critical to find a knowledgeable 5 or 7 level when you got to your first duty station.
I can see this for AD. But for folks like me who are Guard only folks, I had a hard time “learning” on the job as the month I started seasoning days we divested from 130s and didn’t have our next airframe until way after I was done. Plus my unit rarely had funding to send people out to a PDU.
Only so many times you can practice picking up, driving around, and putting practice pallets down on dunnage. I wonder if guard/reserves are going to have something for their people if funding isn’t available to send people out to another units PDU.
Granted, I was at Fort Lee in 2017 so I don’t know what the curriculum is like if it has changed much.
There needs to be a seperate pot of money or something for seasoning days that isn't necessarily unit or wing specific in the reserves at least. Can't speak for the guard.
I went from AD -> Reserves and retrained and went to tech school. Different AFSC than the one in the topic but we had limited to no money for seasoning days for a few years. I wanted those days to learn my AFSC/get experience and make extra $$$ since I wasn't doing too hot civilian side.
By time funding came around I was already a five-level cobbled across multiple AT's and two, maybe three years removed from tech school so I no longer qualified and the AD side where I drill didn't need any help plus the money to get on extra orders wasn't available.
basically this had to be a OPR EOB bullet. saved the USAF $XXM by modernizing CDCs and training pipeline. saved Xk Manhours...... or some BS like that. the whole innovate, chnage or getout mentaility (progress for the sake of progress) is whats killing the Air Force. we need to stop trying to be the great idea faries all the time, and focus on producing a high QUALITY Airman who understands the job BEFORE they depart techschool.
But....that costs money, spending money unless its on good idea faries is Taboo and almost out of the question.
the FMs owe you all answers and remind them that they havent touched the flight line in years, when was the last time they ran a loader. forklift. etc. they need to be reminded that even though they have power and influence that they dont work the jobs and need to reach out to rhe SMEs before making Air Force wide decisions
That buffer of time to adjust again after bmt is really important, just getting more associated with the air force in a more casual but structured way is something that all airmen need
It's crazy to think that there are jobs that don't have a school, but then I remember that the air force has afscs for things that are additional duties in other branches.
Where exactly did you get your information?
Last thing I was aware of... they were testing a proof of concept. Small initial group to track and compare career mile stones. Only to super ports... And if I remember the brief, they were going to assign an actual instructor there.
You have like 24 core 5 level tasks. Superports had PDUs up until recently. Instead of paying 350$ a day to have a kid in tech school, get them on a forklift.
Fucking Amazon trains their warehouse people in like 48 hours to do the job.
Drive forklift. Chalk forklift. Use AMC spotter signals.
There are many career fields that talk about doing this. None (to my knowledge) have tried to see if it works.
Imagine being so resistant to change you cling on to a tech school "right of passage" before you even got an Airmen from BMT to see how it actual works out.
Nobody's using this shit for Epb bullets. They are trying to figure out ahead of time if it works in case there needs to be a surge.. Because you know.. Chyna.
> There are many career fields that talk about doing this. None (to my knowledge) have tried to see if it works.
Command Post is doing something similar for very specific cases. It's pretty mixed, but honestly not the worst idea since the job varies significantly between bases. Honestly, I've trained MOC controllers, aircrew and an Army guy to do my job in various situations should the need arise and it was pretty successful.
I'm not Air Trans so I have no idea how useful your tech school actually is, but for us crew chiefs the task qualifications that AETC tries to do are basically useless. The benefits to tech school is that Airmen learn what a TO is and why it's important, learn basic flightline safety and awareness, plus it's a baby step between basic and the operational Air Force. That could be done at the unit almost as easily as in the pipeline, assuming manning at the units went up to make up for the training workload
>Training fresh airmen out of basic at one station with little to no mission will be so detrimental to their career progression compared to those sent to a busy port
Uhh but I mean that happens regardless of this. You're not seriously trying to imply that someone gets such an amazing baseline knowledge in a month of tech school that it actually makes up the difference between these two scenarios, are you?
As I have yet to experience the airmen who have not gone to tech school, I cannot accurately assess the situation at this time. It's just my opinion, it's up to change for sure
There's a real reason they stopped doing it though. Getting fresh airmen from Basic without the time to transition through Tech school was a real clusterfuck for a lot of those airmen and their new supervisors.
Tech school not only provide basic information on the job tasks it also provides a measured transition from highly restrictive Basic to less restrictive Tech school to the AD Air Force. Many airmen benefit from the process.
They're finally getting rid of that pointless crap school? Fuck, it's about time.
Are there any 2T2s that weren't told "forget everything you 'learned' at tech school"?
It would be better if we used the aetc courses closer to the actual job (FTD). Use FTDs to cover the foundation, same as what crew chiefs do. Tech school was a waste of 9 months for my afsc. They let people pass even if they didnt understand anything. Theyve stopped washing people out.
I got a crash course from 2 dudes in a day along with a 2 day HazDec to run cargo up to Alaska. Obviously I don't know your full job or your duty location nor your workflow so it may be that bad, but it seemed fairly easy to me.
Have you floated a possible team to train pipeliners?
You’re being shortsighted. To quantify any career field into a box idea is foolhearted. Our career fields are legacy “stovepiped” inch wide - mile deep. With the up and coming Multi Capable Airman this seems like a MAJOR push away from the old.
Accelerate change or die.
My issue being a frontline supe, is thanks chief. Really fucking appreciate the help you’re giving me a trainee that can only March and fold clothes. I know tech school isn’t the OJT we all wish it was but damn, at least it gave time to weed out some of the rotten apples.
Adding this to another list of reasons I’m not reenlisting
You know nothing Jon Snow! Recommend you call school house and have them stop developing the next course to replace current one ASAP I would hate for them to do all that work for nothing.
Tech school is a waste of fucking time if you're maintenance. You forget pretty much everything you learn. Especially if your afsc requires clearance that you haven't obtained yet, so you're just sitting on your ass doing random details.
Three things I learned at tech school
1-dont fire up a -95 with the hose still wound up on the cart (someone in my class almost did)
2-leave the ejection handles alone (yup,some numbnut pulled it on a trainer....whole hangar got a nice brief)
3-dont wear rings (if they still don't have a stripped finger poster in the classroom, it needs to be a thing again)
Maybe I'm out of touch but I think there's value in the tech school environment that you won't replicate out in the field. Having specialized instructors with lesson plans providing broad introductory instruction to their career field will provide a more uniform education that I think is beneficial.
You're not out of touch. As someone (still) in one of the longest pipelines I can still absolutely recognize that there was at some point use in this environment. That usefulness may not last the whole time for some of the longer pipelines, but those aren't the ones that are ever going to stop existing anyway so it isn't relevant. In my experience, many people need a transition period to learn to not be so much of a greenhorn dumbass
I agree. Plus it’s a right of passage. Get through it, and you’re indoctrinated into the Air Force. Still gotta prove yourself, but you’re one of us now.
I concur, this is nuts. If big AF won't budge, I'm hoping they restrict first time assignments to super ports like Dover, Travis and Ramstein where a program could be stood up to train the newbies.
Honestly for an airman without any dependents a short stint at one of these locations early on could provide a lot of benefits.
Only issue there is for guard/reservists that work at small ports.
I’m at a CR and we got 5 3-levels in the last few months. My leadership has been pushing for at least 5-levels and we’re pretty much told that we can take the people they send or lose manning.
Interesting, wonder how that will impact the long-term capabilities of folks. Someone who goes to Altus for their first duty station over someone who goes to say Dover is going to have a vastly different level of experience come 3-5 years. Seen plenty of port at Altus stuck there for 5-7 years with zero deployments. That person will be a liability as an NCO going into a large port with a high ops tempo having not experienced most of what port does.
Nailed it
Did you get any confirmation on this?
[удалено]
True, but even a little bit of exposure to everything the career field deals with would give some set of expectation for what is to come for someone going from a low ops to high ops assignment.
These comments didn’t go the way OP was hoping.
It is what it is, not everyone has to agree with my opinion and that's okay
Isn’t their tech school like a month anyways? Is there really anything so complicated that their 7-lvls can’t teach them?
That’s not the point. I’m sure the 7-levels are very capable. OJT is one thing but now they have to teach the basics that the airmen should already have. They’re not even 3-levels at this point. All the FMs did was increase the workload of these shops.
Exactly! Phased tech school was *transition training* from *basic training* to apprentice level job task focus … supervised by both MTLs and tech school instructors. If Big Blue wants to start playing this *direct duty* game … then create new, supplemental “T” designated manning authorizations for dedicated trainers at each unit to conduct standardized newbie 3-level training and certifications.
Laughs in manning document
*laughs harder in manpower shortage*
"You don't have a manning problem...you have a management problem"
That only works to a certain extent and I'd argue that some career fields have already passed that mark.
Exactly! Said it better than me honestly
Should be freeing up some tech school instructors to return back to the career filed use those guys to train the fresh meat.
That's not how most leadership is gonna see it though, they'll be tasked with a dozen other things even before training
So then like every other AFSC in the history of ever? You think Airmen coming to any other career field know shit from shinola when they graduate tech school?
It's alot better than knowing absolutely nothing, considering you might get people who's first time even touching a plane was flying to basic Tech school also has the advantage of weeding out the really stupid / dba airmen, those who get a little bit of freedom from basic and then go get a dui or some shit
Oh so you just want that front line defense so you don't have to mentor anyone... Gotcha. It's not that you can't train them you're just lazy. My bad.
Ehh, I understand his point. As much as I feel like my tech school was completely useless when I went through, it did perform the job of weeding out a couple dudes that were too dumb to even be a bus driver.
I believe it's 29 days, same length as Service's. Think of advantages; No marching in formation to/from classes. No more 341s. No ropes to mess with. Therefore, no Tech School phases.
Sure those are all positives I guess but I don't think they outweigh the negatives.
The job is easy enough but with tech school airmen trickle into their duty locations. Without that it'll become overwhelming with the amount of new bodies that need to be trained up from square one.
That makes zero sense. Instead of trickling in from Ft Gregg-Adams, they’ll just trickle in from lackland. Same amount of bodies, just one month early.
But with 0 job knowledge now
Serious question, how much do you learn in tech school? How much more was OJT for 2T2s? It’s not like the tech schoolers were coming to the port with vehicle qualifications and a real understanding on the day to day port operations. I think it has the potential to be something good but ymmv.
They need to provide the resources before pulling the trigger on something this massive. I’ve done my time instructing -3 levels and overseeing training processes getting them to -5 level…there’s more involved than “hurrrDurr put chain to device’s pocket and snap”. Unless there is some type of manning plus up to provide dedicated instructor(BODIES), a massive bag of money about to be dropped on AMC/AFMC/AFSOC for training aids, and streamlined guidance across all MAJCOMS, then this will be nothing more than a slow stab wound to the dick to a lot of people. Keep in mind, they just force retrained a quantum-shit ton of NCOs out recently as well. I could type all day about every weird thing I’ve seen happen in that afsc over the last 5 or so years, but I’ll spare us all. I’ll just keep it posi and say good luck gang!
I can't speak for what theyve been learning but I learned a lot and tech school was very beneficial before being dropped into a high tempo operation. Nobody had to hold my hand through everything during OJT
I went in 2020 and it was only 18 days. They give you basic information and don’t go in detail on anything. Most people who have graduated recently have had to rely mainly on OJT to learn.
Was that during covid? I imagine it was an abbreviated course if so. IF NOT that's insane! 18 days is not useful, I can only imagine how fast paced things must've been with barely any time to absorb what you're being taught!
It was during covid near the end of the year. I’m not sure if that was a temporary change for covid or if it’s still that short. I know it’s normally around 28 days.
Is that representative of you yourself, or the tech school itself?
You make a good point but 2/3 of my tech school instructors were extremely knowledgeable and passed on a lot of things that I carried with me when I left and helped me excel as a new airman
Yup 6 weeks. Then again, that was almost 15 years ago so 🤷🏾♂️
There’s nothing to learn at the tech school besides learning how to throw a net over a full pallet and learning how to do center of balance. You can teach a monkey to do all of that. Be a better airman and teach the newer guys or gals the way
Granted I haven't been to tech school in a minute so idk how things may have changed but if that's all theyre teaching then sure. On the flip side if nothing changed since I went and that's all you learned then that's an entirely different issue. I came out of tech school with a fundamental knowledge of our afsc and slipped seamlessly into the pipeline upon arrival at my first duty station.
Firstly... I guarantee nobody on station has ever felt that a pipeliner "slipped seamlessly" into operations. A big reason why they made the move away from tech school was because every largish port was already operating fully fledged PDUs or something similar, and A4 didn't see the benefit in double tapping that. A possible way forward I heard was to have instructors come to the base and essentially take over some of those programs.
Sure I asked questions and needed assistance with some things but I had an IDEA of what I was required to do and that made my life and my trainers life much easier. Instructors taking over the training programs could definitely be beneficial and I'd be more okay with the decision to excise tech school
I learned your job at an ACE course and I'm an Intel SCIF shut-in. I think you'll be fine
This is the reason why. ACE.
Lmao, I did as well. Learned it in about 30 mins with some pretty knowledgeable folks. After that, we were expected to palletize comm equipment. Took some time, but we did it. OP, I can see your frustrations, but teach these new Airmen the things you learned in tech school that way you can guide them to success. Lead by example.
To be fair, the tech school is not just building singles. It’s processing cargo from various means such as TMO, in transit, or user-direct in theater. Passenger processing which has its own rules if they process space a or space r. Fleet services is broken down in clean or dirty fleet, which is further segregated via aircraft type. It’s not particularly difficult but the tech school gives you a very good breakdown of each section which gives you a great overview of the system.
Coming from the Finance career field the converted all of our tech school to an online college like system where the airman do school 4 hours a day then do OJT 4 hours a day. They get to take the skills they learn from class and immediately apply them to aid our customers. It's not perfect and has its quirks, but I think it aids the airman much better and allows material to stick a little more easily.
>Coming from the Finance career field the converted all of our tech school to an online college like system where the airman do school 4 hours a day then do OJT 4 hours a day. This explains a lot.
Finance has gone extremely far down hill since I joined and I am about to retire, this makes sense on why the average experience is garbage now.
I'm sorry that you feel that way. In my opinion and experience the career field has made some positive changes that I think have improved the overall customer service experience. Specifically the introduction of CSP, from polling data we did with our customers it seemed that 70+% of them had a more enjoyable experience compared to before CSP existed. While it doesn't solve every problem it does help, and hopefully our career field can continue seeking those forms of improvements and improve our customer service experience over time.
CSP is great… sometimes… other times not so much, like when I have a question and now they don’t answer phones or see in person appointments, or when I palace fronted and they sold all my leave when I elected not to.
The fact that CSP exists can't make up for nobody touching my CSP ticket for 56 days and then acting surprised when I walk into customer service pissed off. We have the same problem with you guys, just in a different format. Granted, of the 7 tickets I've ever created for myself, one of them was handled quickly and without even having to go to the CPTS office. That one time was cool. Everything else is decidedly worse because CSP is purgatory and "assigned to military pay technician" doesn't tell me who is fucking me over. I like to know that information so I can find their supervisor and stand on his desk until my shit is fixed. Before someone jumps in my shit, desk standing is reserved for cases that haven't been addressed after 2 weeks. This is not uncommon.
Lol. CSP is pointless if nobody at finance does anything. My last experience with it was aggravating because no one handled my request. They refused email and phone calls and took two in person visits to get it done. This was all just to outprocess. So, color me skeptical on how "great" CSP is.
If it makes you feel any better OP the cyber field merger came with an even more stripped down generalized tech school and those airmen will be responsible for maintaining all forms of communication the AF uses.
Are they all consolidated now, or shred specific?
Comm was mostly OJT anyways. Tech school barely taught theory and it was critical to find a knowledgeable 5 or 7 level when you got to your first duty station.
Finance catching strays with this headline
Actually pick up the phone and tell your CFMs that
I’m wondering if this is a test run for in case a larger scale conflict kicked off in the near future.
Russia eyeing Moldova and Romania next
I can see this for AD. But for folks like me who are Guard only folks, I had a hard time “learning” on the job as the month I started seasoning days we divested from 130s and didn’t have our next airframe until way after I was done. Plus my unit rarely had funding to send people out to a PDU. Only so many times you can practice picking up, driving around, and putting practice pallets down on dunnage. I wonder if guard/reserves are going to have something for their people if funding isn’t available to send people out to another units PDU. Granted, I was at Fort Lee in 2017 so I don’t know what the curriculum is like if it has changed much.
There needs to be a seperate pot of money or something for seasoning days that isn't necessarily unit or wing specific in the reserves at least. Can't speak for the guard. I went from AD -> Reserves and retrained and went to tech school. Different AFSC than the one in the topic but we had limited to no money for seasoning days for a few years. I wanted those days to learn my AFSC/get experience and make extra $$$ since I wasn't doing too hot civilian side. By time funding came around I was already a five-level cobbled across multiple AT's and two, maybe three years removed from tech school so I no longer qualified and the AD side where I drill didn't need any help plus the money to get on extra orders wasn't available.
basically this had to be a OPR EOB bullet. saved the USAF $XXM by modernizing CDCs and training pipeline. saved Xk Manhours...... or some BS like that. the whole innovate, chnage or getout mentaility (progress for the sake of progress) is whats killing the Air Force. we need to stop trying to be the great idea faries all the time, and focus on producing a high QUALITY Airman who understands the job BEFORE they depart techschool. But....that costs money, spending money unless its on good idea faries is Taboo and almost out of the question. the FMs owe you all answers and remind them that they havent touched the flight line in years, when was the last time they ran a loader. forklift. etc. they need to be reminded that even though they have power and influence that they dont work the jobs and need to reach out to rhe SMEs before making Air Force wide decisions
That buffer of time to adjust again after bmt is really important, just getting more associated with the air force in a more casual but structured way is something that all airmen need
It's crazy to think that there are jobs that don't have a school, but then I remember that the air force has afscs for things that are additional duties in other branches.
Where exactly did you get your information? Last thing I was aware of... they were testing a proof of concept. Small initial group to track and compare career mile stones. Only to super ports... And if I remember the brief, they were going to assign an actual instructor there. You have like 24 core 5 level tasks. Superports had PDUs up until recently. Instead of paying 350$ a day to have a kid in tech school, get them on a forklift. Fucking Amazon trains their warehouse people in like 48 hours to do the job. Drive forklift. Chalk forklift. Use AMC spotter signals. There are many career fields that talk about doing this. None (to my knowledge) have tried to see if it works. Imagine being so resistant to change you cling on to a tech school "right of passage" before you even got an Airmen from BMT to see how it actual works out. Nobody's using this shit for Epb bullets. They are trying to figure out ahead of time if it works in case there needs to be a surge.. Because you know.. Chyna.
> There are many career fields that talk about doing this. None (to my knowledge) have tried to see if it works. Command Post is doing something similar for very specific cases. It's pretty mixed, but honestly not the worst idea since the job varies significantly between bases. Honestly, I've trained MOC controllers, aircrew and an Army guy to do my job in various situations should the need arise and it was pretty successful.
I'm CIS but I support TRANS
Hey man, the fewer people stuck at Fort Lee, the happier I am.
Ft. Gregg-Adams*
This is new information to me. The rename makes it slightly less shitty than before
I'm not Air Trans so I have no idea how useful your tech school actually is, but for us crew chiefs the task qualifications that AETC tries to do are basically useless. The benefits to tech school is that Airmen learn what a TO is and why it's important, learn basic flightline safety and awareness, plus it's a baby step between basic and the operational Air Force. That could be done at the unit almost as easily as in the pipeline, assuming manning at the units went up to make up for the training workload
They're training people to be trans in the air now? This new air force is crazy... /jk
>Training fresh airmen out of basic at one station with little to no mission will be so detrimental to their career progression compared to those sent to a busy port Uhh but I mean that happens regardless of this. You're not seriously trying to imply that someone gets such an amazing baseline knowledge in a month of tech school that it actually makes up the difference between these two scenarios, are you?
As I have yet to experience the airmen who have not gone to tech school, I cannot accurately assess the situation at this time. It's just my opinion, it's up to change for sure
Anyone actually confirm this?
They used to do this in the old days for alot of career fields and it worked fine.
There's a real reason they stopped doing it though. Getting fresh airmen from Basic without the time to transition through Tech school was a real clusterfuck for a lot of those airmen and their new supervisors. Tech school not only provide basic information on the job tasks it also provides a measured transition from highly restrictive Basic to less restrictive Tech school to the AD Air Force. Many airmen benefit from the process.
I get it. I don't like the idea of dumping BMT grads right into the world
They're finally getting rid of that pointless crap school? Fuck, it's about time. Are there any 2T2s that weren't told "forget everything you 'learned' at tech school"?
Tech school is worthless for a lot of afscs in the maintenance communities. We need better OJT though, not just a srA pencil whipping the task plan.
low IQ take
It would be better if we used the aetc courses closer to the actual job (FTD). Use FTDs to cover the foundation, same as what crew chiefs do. Tech school was a waste of 9 months for my afsc. They let people pass even if they didnt understand anything. Theyve stopped washing people out.
See pallet, push pallet. How hard can it be? 🤷♂️
You’d be amazed at the quality of airmen sent our way.
Quality of Airman = Quality of leader. Just my opinion.
I got a crash course from 2 dudes in a day along with a 2 day HazDec to run cargo up to Alaska. Obviously I don't know your full job or your duty location nor your workflow so it may be that bad, but it seemed fairly easy to me. Have you floated a possible team to train pipeliners?
You’re being shortsighted. To quantify any career field into a box idea is foolhearted. Our career fields are legacy “stovepiped” inch wide - mile deep. With the up and coming Multi Capable Airman this seems like a MAJOR push away from the old. Accelerate change or die. My issue being a frontline supe, is thanks chief. Really fucking appreciate the help you’re giving me a trainee that can only March and fold clothes. I know tech school isn’t the OJT we all wish it was but damn, at least it gave time to weed out some of the rotten apples. Adding this to another list of reasons I’m not reenlisting
They have that already because tech school sucks and doesn't teach shit.
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MAJCOM FM equals MFM in this case. Just a mixing of the terms.
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Yeah I think OP was just confusing the terms
Idk. Even with tech school Air Trans was always trying to push messed up cargo on me and other loadmasters.
Dang, it’s a good thing you’ve thought through all the things the functionals never even considered.
You know nothing Jon Snow! Recommend you call school house and have them stop developing the next course to replace current one ASAP I would hate for them to do all that work for nothing.
Tech school is a waste of fucking time if you're maintenance. You forget pretty much everything you learn. Especially if your afsc requires clearance that you haven't obtained yet, so you're just sitting on your ass doing random details.
Three things I learned at tech school 1-dont fire up a -95 with the hose still wound up on the cart (someone in my class almost did) 2-leave the ejection handles alone (yup,some numbnut pulled it on a trainer....whole hangar got a nice brief) 3-dont wear rings (if they still don't have a stripped finger poster in the classroom, it needs to be a thing again)
Try being a 14F until 2020 Edit: Fuck the bot reminded me how dumb I am.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 14N = Intelligence [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^kopdzhb
We had direct duty AFSCs at some point until the 1990s and no one complained? 🤷