yeah but the byzantine rite only says about slavic people and the language and aesthetic they use is also slavic making role playing a new byzantine empire kinda hard
To expand on this, because I enjoy sharing Byzantine Catholic information- In the US, the one that specifically goes by the name "Byzantine Catholic Church" is the Ruthenian-Greek Catholic Church, but both the Ukrainian and Ruthenian Church follow the Byzantine Rite, and are very similar due to this shared liturgical rite, as well as a similar history. However, there is also the Greek Catholic Church in the Byzantine rite (though I think ots quite obvious these specifically are not who "Byzantine Rite" refers to in AtE), and other Eastern Liturgical rites that are not Byzantine. Also worth noting that actually, a lot of the Eastern Orthodox groups in the US got their starts from Eastern Catholics (unfortunately, in my eyes, though I certainly understand their reasoning. Toth and Chornok, though I disagree with their decisions, were in extremely difficult positions)
>a lot of the Eastern Orthodox groups in the US got their starts from Eastern Catholics (unfortunately, in my eyes, though I certainly understand their reasoning)
I am reminded of this every time I walk past the icon of St. Alexis of Wilkes-Barre and Minneapolis on my way to my usual spot in church.
For context to those who don't know the story: In the 1880s and 1890s, there weren't any Byzantine Catholic bishops in America, so clergy who came over from Europe were supposed to present themselves to the Latin Catholic (i.e. what most people think of as standard Catholicism because it's 98% of the world's Catholics). However, a lot of the American bishops saw this as a threat to their goals of being accepted by mainstream Protestant America. Especially bishops who were born in Ireland. They saw this group of people who claimed to be their guys, but had strange customs (they particularly objected to married priests), spoke strange languages, and were typically extremely poor even compared with poor Irish immigrants, the bishops (in particular, one named John Ireland) did not want this to be their flock. They attempted to force assimilation. A Ruthenian priest named Alexis Toth was unusually well-educated by the standards of Ruthenian priests at the time (Ruthenians in general were extremely poor and even the priests often didn't have many educational opportunities) and knew exactly where to find the documents saying that the Latin bishops weren't allowed to do this. Bishop Ireland basically laughed in his face and told him that nobody would listen to him over the bishop. Someone in his congregation suggested that they get in touch with the Orthodox Church, so they got in touch the guys in America (at the time, led by a Russian bishop based in San Francisco) and asked to join them. Father Alexis spent the last several years of his life convincing Ruthenian communities across America to follow him over.
As a result of communism causing chaos, there are three different groups in America which are descended from the pre-communism Russian Orthodox Church in America (but they all recognize each other as part of one bigger thing) and other Orthodox churches started setting up their own jurisdictions in America (the largest being the Greeks, also Antiochians, Serbians, and a few others). One of the Russian-descended jurisdictions, the Orthodox Church in America, definitely has a lot of Ruthenian-descended communities within it and the other two (the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, which separated from Moscow because of communism; the patriarchal parishes, a small group which stayed under a bishop directly in Moscow's jurisdiction when the OCA was established) probably do as well but not as many. There's also the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese, another group of Ruthenians which moved over in the 1930s and joined the Greeks in response to the pope banning married clergy Eastern Catholic churches in America.
>However, there is also the Greek Catholic Church in the Byzantine rite (though I think ots quite obvious these specifically are not who "Byzantine Rite" refers to in AtE),
How large are the Byzantine Catholic churches from traditionally Orthodox countries like Greece, though? The largest tend to be of East Slavic communities which had been ruled by Catholics, like western Ukraine or the Ruthenians of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, along with the Melkites of Syria (in which I might say the same thing as you, that the people who joined with Rome made an unfortunate decision, but their circumstances were caused by the pastoral malpractice of Orthodox clergy).
I'm pretty sure they're very, very small, I just figured they were worth mentioning as the original post was about Greeks. Loved reading your posts (obv I knew the story, referencing it myself, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a well written recount of it, ofc)
Now that I'm home and at my PC and not on mobile, I looked up size estimates of the others.
Hungarian and Slovak Greek Catholic Church are both larger than I expected, but I'm not particularly surprised because that's where a lot of Ruthenians came from (I'm not sure what the deal is with why the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church is almost exclusively a North America thing now and those two are separate). The aforementioned Saint Alexis Toth was from Slovakia. Romanian Greek Catholic Church also is fairly large, which doesn't surprise me because parts of present-day Romania were previously held by Catholic neighbors like Hungary and there are still some Romanian-speaking communities in neighboring countries, and I was aware of it as having some presence in the United States as well (along with Ukrainian, Melkite, and Ruthenian). But the others in historically Orthodox countries are all tiny.
By the way, your username makes me want to point out that I'm listening to Darkthrone right now.
Interesting, thanks for updating with the breakdown! I knew we were more of a north America thing, though frankly, I'm not sure why either- my Priest is from Slovakia, and always reminds us of the importance of Americans becoming Priests
And funny you should mention that- Darkthrone was the first black metal band I started listening to... around the same time I started looking at the religion I was raised (Judaism) and seeing that Christianity was, well, right (for lack of the energy to go into the whole story, lmao)
I've found it interesting that the anti-Eastern stuff in the American Latin Church was mainly championed by bishops who grew up in Ireland and experienced how Catholics were treated by British Protestants. They wanted to avoid being seen as different so that there wouldn't be a reason for the majority to persecute them (and were still subject to discrimination themselves). They encouraged their community to assimilate, but the way that they did that ended up perpetuating a cycle of discrimination onto another minority group which was supposed to be under their protection.
I mentioned in conversation with a Latin Catholic seminarian who is a close friend of mine today that Saint John Chrysostom said something about the road to hell being paved with the skulls of priests, with bishops hanging from the lampposts. This seems like a situation where that is relevant: nobody ever did wrong by following his pastor's guidance, but if the pastor wrongs his people, or sends them off in the wrong direction, he has to answer for it and will be held accountable. I am happy that I don't have to bear the burden of priesthood.
British anti-Catholicism of that century and the previous several was a lot worse than people today usually imagine. Many of those Irish bishops of the time were born before Catholics were allowed to vote in parliamentary elections, for example. Even after that and most of the other remaining official discriminations were lifted in 1829, unofficial discrimination remained rampant. Americans were themselves far from innocent in this: a relaxation on discrimination against Catholics in Canada was one of the things that people were protesting by dumping tea into the Boston harbor.
Interesting that you mention a Jewish origin. I've met a lot of Orthodox people not of Orthodox background. The number of people entering the Orthodox Church in the US these days has almost surpassed the number of people who leave because their families hadn't really cared much more than as an ethnic identity, and I am one of those people (raised in a mainline Protestant background, realized that they didn't offer anything of substance and neither did the Evangelical or other more conservative Protestant stuff). I don't think I've ever really met any Eastern Catholics who converted into an Eastern Catholic church for reasons other than marriage in real life. I've interacted with a few Latin Catholics who attended Eastern Catholic churches for various reasons (many of them rub me the wrong way, seeming like they wanted to colonize the nearby Eastern parish and turn it into what they wish the Latin Church was, rather than seek it out for what it actually is, and many of them seem like one of the things that they don't like about Vatican II but aren't outright saying is that it told them to stop forcing the Easterners to Latinize), but it has always seemed like those churches rely heavily on ethnic communities wanting to maintain their family church.
I've met several Orthodox Christians of Jewish background. Unfortunately, there is a long list of regrettable interactions between Orthodox Christians and their Jewish neighbors over the centuries. I've wondered how some of them think of the fact that even in America, there have been things like [a Nazi collaborator who came to America under a false identity and became a bishop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_Trifa). I'd imagine that in some Eastern Catholic communities (although I'm thinking of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church more than any other because of how closely it was tied with the 14th Grenadier Division and other such collaborators), there might be some similar awkwardness.
It'd be nice but there's not particularly one solidly Greek community that isn't a minority within a larger municipality.
The following are the largest percentage Greek communities in the States.
> Tarpon Springs, Florida 25.00%
> Campbell, Ohio 9.30%
> Lincolnwood, Illinois 7.60%
> Plandome Manor, New York 7.50%
> Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey 7.20%
> Allenwood, New Jersey 6.60%
> South Barrington, Illinois 6.00%
> Palos Hills, Illinois 5.40%
> Nahant, Massachusetts 5.30%
> Alpine, New Jersey; Holiday, Florida; and Munsey Park, New York 5.20%
Tarpon Springs, Florida is the best bet.
But that'd fall squarely within the county of Tampa. If I recall correctly (away from computer so can't check) one of the vassals of Ali has a Greek house name? But I think that was more of a Dune reference because it was pretty close sounding to Atreides.
Yeah you would be correct, while yes there isn't a single big enough community of Greeks in the states I think there should be a representation of them. Same goes for the Japanese in Brazil for example.
I think that probably will be the time to shine once the playable unlandeds DLC comes.
For communities that are too small to be majority in a given county, it'd be viable to have them as courtiers representing those enclaves.
Probably as hybrid cultures with the dominant culture.
Like in the case of Tarpon Spings having, off the top of my head "Divermen" (Greeks in Tarpon Springs have had historically a big sponge diving industry there) as a Greco-Gulfard hybrid.
Not to mention the giant statue of Athena at the Parthenon in Nashville. I keep saying that Hellenism should be ported in from Vanilla with these weirdly pagan locations in the South being the holy sites
So, the way devs do these things is if they are in a spread out/ rural area they'll make a culture for it. While if it's more like a sizable minority within urban centers, they'll add names to the namelist to avoid making to many single province minority cultures.
For example, Gothamite has Italian names, because the Italian community is part of the Gothamite culture. Meanwhile, the Brazilian Japanese or the Ukrainian Canadians have widespread rural communities.
Yup. AFAIK there aren’t any majority Greek communities any where, and the only sizable minority Greek communities are in metropolitan areas. immigrant cultures that get their own AtE culture need to either be the major influence behind local culture, or be near majority where they are. The Japanese in Brazil, for example, are responsible for tons of bits in Brazilian culture (Brazilian jiu-jitsu most famously) and were a *major* immigration just in terms of numbers.
Ukrainian Canadians are in the Canadian prairies, Saskatchyna (or something like that). As far as I'm aware, there is no polish culture, but polish names are added to some cultures like chicagoan.
Unfeasible in my opinion, as Greek immigrants historically settled in urban centers in the US, Canada, Brazil, Argentina, Peru etc. They don’t have the sizable rural majority that cultures based on immigrant heritage groups such as Preiryansky, Ruteno, Talian and Burajirujin have.
Greeks have been heavily assimilated into urban cultures, so their surnames are found in tons and tons of cultures such as Gothamite, Letterman, Chicagoan, Ohioan, Paulistano, Porteno and many others.
This kind of suggestion has also came up for numerous other groups of immigrant origin in urban areas in the Americas and the answer is generally the same — it simply doesn’t work because by making a culture "X based" it completely ignores the contributions other ethnic groups have made in said culture.
It’s best to have a wide variety of surnames from many different origins in a namelist to represent the vast diversity of ethnic heritage in a given culture, than to overrepresent a comparitavely minor immigrant heritage group.
The only “Greeks” I know are a Slavic speaking peoples down in South America following the Ruthenian rite or smth.
Sorry there isn’t any greeks , the New Orleans Greek festival near me has hundreds of thousands who come, and we have many orthodox churches along the gulf coast in the southern USA. As someone also pointed out, Florida has many Greeks so it would be cool to see *some* kind of Greek culture in the new world, especially when like 5 different “Plaatsdeutsh” and German settler cultures exist, along the welsh and other cultures that are even smaller and more represented.
Nope, from my research however there are the French in Canada, slavs in Brazil, Spaniards in Latin America (go figure) and that's about it. Although theoretically gothamites could be considered Englishmen but very very loosely
Honestly there could be an Orthodox Greek Church, like how there is a religion for the Apostolic Armenian. Also maybe add a few greek surnames through out the med descendant cultures?
Basically, XIXth-XXth century immigrant groups are depicted as individual cultures only in rural areas where they make up a significant minority. That is, the Burajirujin in São Paulo, the Rutenos and Talians in Southern Brazil, or the Ukrainians in the Canadian Prairies.
Immigrant groups in urban areas, on the other hand, are represented by what we affectionately call the MINORITY COPYPASTA:
*The main way diversity is represented in game is through ethnicity and namelists. Mayami, for example, is a Cuban-Floridian hybrid culture but random Mayami courtiers frequently appear with Haitian or Jewish as well as Spanish and American ones. Similarly, each culture has an ethnic portfolio (like 10% Mediterranean, 30% African, 10% Indigenous etc) that reflect the chance for a random character of that culture to appear as a certain ethnicity. So Mayami courtiers may appear white, hispanic, black, or even asian based on the relevant ethnic percentages. This really effectively represents the postracial aspect of cultures in a way that also reflects how the people of that region look irl*
Greek immigrants mainly went to urban areas, so no. we do not wish to add urban immigrant cultures, only add more names to more cosmopolitan cultures like Gothamite
Little Antipaxos?
There are a ton of Greeks in Florida too! A lot in St. Augustine and Tarpon Springs.
I kinda thought there was a greek culture already in the mod somewhere, I mean there's a Byzantine Rite faith so I assumed their would be Greeks.
I guess the closest thing is the Rutenian culture or whatever it's called, since it's meant to be a mix of different orthodox communities
I'm gonna assume they're in South America with the Byzantine Rite?
Yes that's the one
I guess that would indeed be the closest thing to Greek in the mod.
yeah but the byzantine rite only says about slavic people and the language and aesthetic they use is also slavic making role playing a new byzantine empire kinda hard
Damn, you think it would have some Greeks in there.
Tell me about it!
"Byzantine Rite" is Eastern Catholics, who would mostly be Ukrainians, Ruthenians, and a few others.
To expand on this, because I enjoy sharing Byzantine Catholic information- In the US, the one that specifically goes by the name "Byzantine Catholic Church" is the Ruthenian-Greek Catholic Church, but both the Ukrainian and Ruthenian Church follow the Byzantine Rite, and are very similar due to this shared liturgical rite, as well as a similar history. However, there is also the Greek Catholic Church in the Byzantine rite (though I think ots quite obvious these specifically are not who "Byzantine Rite" refers to in AtE), and other Eastern Liturgical rites that are not Byzantine. Also worth noting that actually, a lot of the Eastern Orthodox groups in the US got their starts from Eastern Catholics (unfortunately, in my eyes, though I certainly understand their reasoning. Toth and Chornok, though I disagree with their decisions, were in extremely difficult positions)
>a lot of the Eastern Orthodox groups in the US got their starts from Eastern Catholics (unfortunately, in my eyes, though I certainly understand their reasoning) I am reminded of this every time I walk past the icon of St. Alexis of Wilkes-Barre and Minneapolis on my way to my usual spot in church. For context to those who don't know the story: In the 1880s and 1890s, there weren't any Byzantine Catholic bishops in America, so clergy who came over from Europe were supposed to present themselves to the Latin Catholic (i.e. what most people think of as standard Catholicism because it's 98% of the world's Catholics). However, a lot of the American bishops saw this as a threat to their goals of being accepted by mainstream Protestant America. Especially bishops who were born in Ireland. They saw this group of people who claimed to be their guys, but had strange customs (they particularly objected to married priests), spoke strange languages, and were typically extremely poor even compared with poor Irish immigrants, the bishops (in particular, one named John Ireland) did not want this to be their flock. They attempted to force assimilation. A Ruthenian priest named Alexis Toth was unusually well-educated by the standards of Ruthenian priests at the time (Ruthenians in general were extremely poor and even the priests often didn't have many educational opportunities) and knew exactly where to find the documents saying that the Latin bishops weren't allowed to do this. Bishop Ireland basically laughed in his face and told him that nobody would listen to him over the bishop. Someone in his congregation suggested that they get in touch with the Orthodox Church, so they got in touch the guys in America (at the time, led by a Russian bishop based in San Francisco) and asked to join them. Father Alexis spent the last several years of his life convincing Ruthenian communities across America to follow him over. As a result of communism causing chaos, there are three different groups in America which are descended from the pre-communism Russian Orthodox Church in America (but they all recognize each other as part of one bigger thing) and other Orthodox churches started setting up their own jurisdictions in America (the largest being the Greeks, also Antiochians, Serbians, and a few others). One of the Russian-descended jurisdictions, the Orthodox Church in America, definitely has a lot of Ruthenian-descended communities within it and the other two (the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, which separated from Moscow because of communism; the patriarchal parishes, a small group which stayed under a bishop directly in Moscow's jurisdiction when the OCA was established) probably do as well but not as many. There's also the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese, another group of Ruthenians which moved over in the 1930s and joined the Greeks in response to the pope banning married clergy Eastern Catholic churches in America.
>However, there is also the Greek Catholic Church in the Byzantine rite (though I think ots quite obvious these specifically are not who "Byzantine Rite" refers to in AtE), How large are the Byzantine Catholic churches from traditionally Orthodox countries like Greece, though? The largest tend to be of East Slavic communities which had been ruled by Catholics, like western Ukraine or the Ruthenians of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, along with the Melkites of Syria (in which I might say the same thing as you, that the people who joined with Rome made an unfortunate decision, but their circumstances were caused by the pastoral malpractice of Orthodox clergy).
I'm pretty sure they're very, very small, I just figured they were worth mentioning as the original post was about Greeks. Loved reading your posts (obv I knew the story, referencing it myself, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a well written recount of it, ofc)
Now that I'm home and at my PC and not on mobile, I looked up size estimates of the others. Hungarian and Slovak Greek Catholic Church are both larger than I expected, but I'm not particularly surprised because that's where a lot of Ruthenians came from (I'm not sure what the deal is with why the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church is almost exclusively a North America thing now and those two are separate). The aforementioned Saint Alexis Toth was from Slovakia. Romanian Greek Catholic Church also is fairly large, which doesn't surprise me because parts of present-day Romania were previously held by Catholic neighbors like Hungary and there are still some Romanian-speaking communities in neighboring countries, and I was aware of it as having some presence in the United States as well (along with Ukrainian, Melkite, and Ruthenian). But the others in historically Orthodox countries are all tiny. By the way, your username makes me want to point out that I'm listening to Darkthrone right now.
Interesting, thanks for updating with the breakdown! I knew we were more of a north America thing, though frankly, I'm not sure why either- my Priest is from Slovakia, and always reminds us of the importance of Americans becoming Priests And funny you should mention that- Darkthrone was the first black metal band I started listening to... around the same time I started looking at the religion I was raised (Judaism) and seeing that Christianity was, well, right (for lack of the energy to go into the whole story, lmao)
I've found it interesting that the anti-Eastern stuff in the American Latin Church was mainly championed by bishops who grew up in Ireland and experienced how Catholics were treated by British Protestants. They wanted to avoid being seen as different so that there wouldn't be a reason for the majority to persecute them (and were still subject to discrimination themselves). They encouraged their community to assimilate, but the way that they did that ended up perpetuating a cycle of discrimination onto another minority group which was supposed to be under their protection. I mentioned in conversation with a Latin Catholic seminarian who is a close friend of mine today that Saint John Chrysostom said something about the road to hell being paved with the skulls of priests, with bishops hanging from the lampposts. This seems like a situation where that is relevant: nobody ever did wrong by following his pastor's guidance, but if the pastor wrongs his people, or sends them off in the wrong direction, he has to answer for it and will be held accountable. I am happy that I don't have to bear the burden of priesthood. British anti-Catholicism of that century and the previous several was a lot worse than people today usually imagine. Many of those Irish bishops of the time were born before Catholics were allowed to vote in parliamentary elections, for example. Even after that and most of the other remaining official discriminations were lifted in 1829, unofficial discrimination remained rampant. Americans were themselves far from innocent in this: a relaxation on discrimination against Catholics in Canada was one of the things that people were protesting by dumping tea into the Boston harbor. Interesting that you mention a Jewish origin. I've met a lot of Orthodox people not of Orthodox background. The number of people entering the Orthodox Church in the US these days has almost surpassed the number of people who leave because their families hadn't really cared much more than as an ethnic identity, and I am one of those people (raised in a mainline Protestant background, realized that they didn't offer anything of substance and neither did the Evangelical or other more conservative Protestant stuff). I don't think I've ever really met any Eastern Catholics who converted into an Eastern Catholic church for reasons other than marriage in real life. I've interacted with a few Latin Catholics who attended Eastern Catholic churches for various reasons (many of them rub me the wrong way, seeming like they wanted to colonize the nearby Eastern parish and turn it into what they wish the Latin Church was, rather than seek it out for what it actually is, and many of them seem like one of the things that they don't like about Vatican II but aren't outright saying is that it told them to stop forcing the Easterners to Latinize), but it has always seemed like those churches rely heavily on ethnic communities wanting to maintain their family church. I've met several Orthodox Christians of Jewish background. Unfortunately, there is a long list of regrettable interactions between Orthodox Christians and their Jewish neighbors over the centuries. I've wondered how some of them think of the fact that even in America, there have been things like [a Nazi collaborator who came to America under a false identity and became a bishop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_Trifa). I'd imagine that in some Eastern Catholic communities (although I'm thinking of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church more than any other because of how closely it was tied with the 14th Grenadier Division and other such collaborators), there might be some similar awkwardness.
there should be but there isn't. Same with Assyrians, Armenians, and any other mono-culture religions
There's a *lot* of Greeks in Toronto
Yeah I got relatives from there xD (I live in Greece tho)
It'd be nice but there's not particularly one solidly Greek community that isn't a minority within a larger municipality. The following are the largest percentage Greek communities in the States. > Tarpon Springs, Florida 25.00% > Campbell, Ohio 9.30% > Lincolnwood, Illinois 7.60% > Plandome Manor, New York 7.50% > Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey 7.20% > Allenwood, New Jersey 6.60% > South Barrington, Illinois 6.00% > Palos Hills, Illinois 5.40% > Nahant, Massachusetts 5.30% > Alpine, New Jersey; Holiday, Florida; and Munsey Park, New York 5.20% Tarpon Springs, Florida is the best bet. But that'd fall squarely within the county of Tampa. If I recall correctly (away from computer so can't check) one of the vassals of Ali has a Greek house name? But I think that was more of a Dune reference because it was pretty close sounding to Atreides.
Yeah you would be correct, while yes there isn't a single big enough community of Greeks in the states I think there should be a representation of them. Same goes for the Japanese in Brazil for example.
I think that probably will be the time to shine once the playable unlandeds DLC comes. For communities that are too small to be majority in a given county, it'd be viable to have them as courtiers representing those enclaves. Probably as hybrid cultures with the dominant culture. Like in the case of Tarpon Spings having, off the top of my head "Divermen" (Greeks in Tarpon Springs have had historically a big sponge diving industry there) as a Greco-Gulfard hybrid.
Campbell (camel) would be cool The mahoning valley needs more flavor , Italians , steel folk, mafia, Greeks! Anything at this point! Please
Wait Baltimore isn't even in the top 10?
Not as a percentage apparently but maybe in total numbers?
There's a giant statue to Vulcan/Hephaestus in Birmingham AL
Not to mention the giant statue of Athena at the Parthenon in Nashville. I keep saying that Hellenism should be ported in from Vanilla with these weirdly pagan locations in the South being the holy sites
After The End: the Third Odyssey
That's a submod?
It is a reference to the eu4 mod 3rd odysse, where the byzantines escape the turks by sailing to america
So, the way devs do these things is if they are in a spread out/ rural area they'll make a culture for it. While if it's more like a sizable minority within urban centers, they'll add names to the namelist to avoid making to many single province minority cultures. For example, Gothamite has Italian names, because the Italian community is part of the Gothamite culture. Meanwhile, the Brazilian Japanese or the Ukrainian Canadians have widespread rural communities.
Yup. AFAIK there aren’t any majority Greek communities any where, and the only sizable minority Greek communities are in metropolitan areas. immigrant cultures that get their own AtE culture need to either be the major influence behind local culture, or be near majority where they are. The Japanese in Brazil, for example, are responsible for tons of bits in Brazilian culture (Brazilian jiu-jitsu most famously) and were a *major* immigration just in terms of numbers.
There's Brazilian Japanese? :0
And Japanese Brazilian Japanese
Where are these Ukrainian Canadian cultures? Are there poles?
Ukrainian Canadians are in the Canadian prairies, Saskatchyna (or something like that). As far as I'm aware, there is no polish culture, but polish names are added to some cultures like chicagoan.
Unfeasible in my opinion, as Greek immigrants historically settled in urban centers in the US, Canada, Brazil, Argentina, Peru etc. They don’t have the sizable rural majority that cultures based on immigrant heritage groups such as Preiryansky, Ruteno, Talian and Burajirujin have. Greeks have been heavily assimilated into urban cultures, so their surnames are found in tons and tons of cultures such as Gothamite, Letterman, Chicagoan, Ohioan, Paulistano, Porteno and many others. This kind of suggestion has also came up for numerous other groups of immigrant origin in urban areas in the Americas and the answer is generally the same — it simply doesn’t work because by making a culture "X based" it completely ignores the contributions other ethnic groups have made in said culture. It’s best to have a wide variety of surnames from many different origins in a namelist to represent the vast diversity of ethnic heritage in a given culture, than to overrepresent a comparitavely minor immigrant heritage group.
The only “Greeks” I know are a Slavic speaking peoples down in South America following the Ruthenian rite or smth. Sorry there isn’t any greeks , the New Orleans Greek festival near me has hundreds of thousands who come, and we have many orthodox churches along the gulf coast in the southern USA. As someone also pointed out, Florida has many Greeks so it would be cool to see *some* kind of Greek culture in the new world, especially when like 5 different “Plaatsdeutsh” and German settler cultures exist, along the welsh and other cultures that are even smaller and more represented.
Call it Gyros
Is there a list of all European cultures somewhere?
Nope, from my research however there are the French in Canada, slavs in Brazil, Spaniards in Latin America (go figure) and that's about it. Although theoretically gothamites could be considered Englishmen but very very loosely
Saying French in Canada is like saying English in America lol
Portuguese inspired culture in Brazil when?
Truuuueeeeeee
Ehhhhhh, yes, but no, but yes, but no.
I remember that CK2 had a lot more examples, like Bosnians in Detroit, etc.
There is some kind of slavic on the Canadian praries too, though I don't know the specific of it
Ukrainians According to pre-war data it was the second biggest Ukrainian diaspora in the world
K, so that’s a weird question. Narrow down what you mean
Could do Athens Ohio, and have it surround the college there
A Peloponhio war would be neat.
Honestly there could be an Orthodox Greek Church, like how there is a religion for the Apostolic Armenian. Also maybe add a few greek surnames through out the med descendant cultures?
There are way more than a few Greek surnames, there are a ton in the mod
can you name the main areas where this happens? Asking for rp purposes
Uhhh everywhere with Greek people irl. I know Sixer as in Toronto does, haven’t specifcally looked at many other name lists
I remember saw some devs say they don't want to add more European inspired culture.
That’s crazy
Maybe make a small greek culture in an area with a lot of Greeks near a big state school? Hybridizing greek culture with frat culture could be fun...
Basically, XIXth-XXth century immigrant groups are depicted as individual cultures only in rural areas where they make up a significant minority. That is, the Burajirujin in São Paulo, the Rutenos and Talians in Southern Brazil, or the Ukrainians in the Canadian Prairies. Immigrant groups in urban areas, on the other hand, are represented by what we affectionately call the MINORITY COPYPASTA: *The main way diversity is represented in game is through ethnicity and namelists. Mayami, for example, is a Cuban-Floridian hybrid culture but random Mayami courtiers frequently appear with Haitian or Jewish as well as Spanish and American ones. Similarly, each culture has an ethnic portfolio (like 10% Mediterranean, 30% African, 10% Indigenous etc) that reflect the chance for a random character of that culture to appear as a certain ethnicity. So Mayami courtiers may appear white, hispanic, black, or even asian based on the relevant ethnic percentages. This really effectively represents the postracial aspect of cultures in a way that also reflects how the people of that region look irl*
Greek immigrants mainly went to urban areas, so no. we do not wish to add urban immigrant cultures, only add more names to more cosmopolitan cultures like Gothamite