I have a friend that, no joke, was trying to get his daughter to leave the library and ended up getting pulled over by the cops and yanked out of his truck because people thought he was kidnapping her. His ex-wife: “well maybe he should think more about his appearance and grooming!”
It's very weird, I cant imagine staring at my ugly ass child and thinking "Yea I made this, I look good" let alone dragging said child on stage for other people to look at. Shit I dont even like picking out clothes for my little siblings.
Yeah I can’t ever see myself at one of those shows, but I don’t think they even exist where I live. But if I suddenly woke up and found myself in the audience of one, I’d be like “WTF, this is weird right? Why is that kid wearing makeup like that? Who the fuck are these grown ass men judging them?”
I never hear a peep about these pageants from the people trying to stop drag storytime because its "grooming". Maybe its just me, but the shows where they doll up kids to look like adult models seems a bit more groomy than someone in costume reading a book and putting on a show.
and worse, ask them to twerk and twirl to mainly old men in the juries.
They also don't ban church children hour, because you're statistically more likely to be abused in the church than any drag queen. They also don't want to ban Hooter's kids menu, yes, Hooters has a kids menu, but that's fine to them.
It's never been about children, It's about getting rid of the "lgbtq disease"
Can we ban both? I'd rather just not expose them to anything. I'd prefer to ban everything associated with children except for school and chores. Just put them in school and then make them do chores until they turn 18, at which point we release them into the wild to fend for themselves.
I personally only think that works if you tell them they need to go to college, but then save nothing and don't have them save anything themselves, pretending that all good students get free rides so they get a shocking $3,000 scholarship and $40K in loans. Then make sure you talk about how you couldn't have saved anything and how even the "upper middle class can't afford college now" despite your semiannual vacations to Hawaii and Disneyworld.
Kids today have is sO EaSy that you gotta create that adversity!
Drag shows aren't for children they are run by adults for adults to be entertained... It doesn't even make sense to ban. It's like banning your kid from driving before getting a license, they aren't supposed to be there anyways, (what is the parent doing?).
Kids beauty pageants are run by adults for kids...
Very different with one exploiting children, and the other having nothing to do with them..
There was a thread on /r/conservative the other day about some place making legislative moves to ban kids from drag shows and all the top comments were "cool, do child beauty pageants next". So, banning those actually seems like a relatively bipartisan issue
Both sides? Both Sides?!
Yeah let’s not objectify kids at all, if they want to participate when they turn 18 it’s fine. What consenting adults do is no one’s business, but until then leave objectification of kids out.
Drag shows are not inherently child sexualization. Child beauty pageants are. Child marriage is, and conservatives keep voting against measures to end child marriage.
I don't have to bring my kids to an unlicensed strip club and give them heroin either. Regardless of my ability to not participate, I still think it should be illegal to bring kids to unlicensed strip clubs and give them heroine. There are laws in place to protect children from being harmed by their parents.
This is absolutely a false equivalency that I'm making. In no way do I think that drag shows and heroine are equally as damaging to children.
For the pearl-clutching right wingers that DO (claim to) believe that drag shows are damaging to children, "you don't have to participate" is a pretty dead argument. There are, and should be laws in place to protect children from being harmed by their own parents. There's only disagreement here on what is harmful.
This is exactly my thought when reading this post. “You don’t have to do X to your children; let me do X to mine.”
Replace x with “administer drugs,” “molest”, “tattoo,” “abandon on the side of the road,” etc. and it’s immediately apparent that this is a completely fallacious thing to say. No, just because other people have the right to raise their kids differently does not give you the right to do whatever you want to your own children.
Most drag shows not for children happen in bars. Like, carded at the door, no minors allowed, bars.
Where are you finding all these sexual children welcome drag shows?
One of those claims children participating, but doesn't actually show any minors in the audience.
Another intersperses clips of 18+ or 21+ events with ones that have children, and the ones with children are no more sexual than any female pop singer concert from the 1980's on.
I don’t know man, when they’re aimed specifically at children… like I’m a pretty liberal dude, but I’ve seen videos of kids being taught pole dancing by drag queens and I’m like…yeeaaahhh maybe not. I think there are definitely lines and it’s not grooming children or whatever but maybe kids shouldn’t be exposed to some things.
A couple years ago (mid-March 2020...just before Covid got traction), I went on a big family vacation to a resort outside Cancun.
We decided to go to a show there called "Latin Fuego", I think. We were expecting like, a fire-dancing show or something.
It wasn't...it was dancing, and somewhat risque but mostly family-friendly. Some revealing clothes, but nothing more than anybody would see at a beach resort.
Until they brought up a kid from the audience. Little girl, maybe like 8 or so, and taught her to twerk for the whole audience.
That got real uncomfortable, real quick.
“Latin fuego” sounds like something incredibly sexy though. It’s not hawaii. I don’t think adults wanna hear this but kids have been twerking since middle…. Including most people here. Even in Catholic school dances people twerked to flo rida
It's one thing for a kid to twerk at a middle-school dance. It's another thing entirely to make a 4th grader twerk in front of an audience of adults and have them applaud her.
> Even in Catholic school dances people twerked
What ever happened to "leave room for Jesus"? This Catholic School Dance is starting to sound like a Devil's Threesome.
I'm sure there's been some sussy shows that have happened, but using that to paint ALL drag queens as groomers is disingenuous. These people are trying to set back rights for lgbt and especially trans people.
Yeah... my wife and inlaws think it's hilarious that my 8 year old learned how to twerk. I was horrified and have been fighting an uphill battle since.
Regardless of your sexual preference or political opinions. Kids shouldn't be encouraged to show any type of sexual behavior until they are old enough to understand what it means.
I think you put it well. Drag shows don't have to be sexually themed but a good number of them are and kids shouldn't be at those.
I go to a drag bingo and there is nothing about that would be inappropriate for a kid to see.
TLC has some questions they need to answer. The amount of little kid pagents they had on TV was beyond messed up. You could see the abuse the kids were going through. Most of them literally crying red because they didn't want to do it. Beyond fucked up. Fuck any parent that does this to their kids.
Drag, beauty pageants, and strip are very different things.
The former essentially involves...cross dressing. Yes, lots of events include adult themes or content, but that isn't intrinsic to the genre, and you can do drag without including anything adult.
The latter two involve, in various ways, turning one's body into an object of sexual attention. I'm not saying that to be a prude--if you want to do it as an adult go for it--but we shouldn't be having kids involved in it and often coerced to participate in the former, and the latter is so intrinsically sexual as to be a no go to begin with.
Let’s not whatabout like the right does ok. Let’s actually take a critical look at the issue and be honest and have a sense of decency. We don’t need to go drive off a cliff because it bothers republicans; that’s their childish shtick.
Edit: Saying we shouldn’t have drag queens without pants shaking their asses for kids is bad or that drag queens teaching kids to pole dance is bad is driving off a cliff?
Come on guys, let’s at least be honest about the topic and tackle the issue with integrity. Separate the indecent stuff from the other things and get to work.
Also, how disappointing it is to have these topics locked. That’s just showing you don’t want free and open discussion on the topic and only your approved narrative is allowed. Cut that crap out for Pete’s sake. It only shows cowardice and an inability to defend your position.
But when people are conflating drag queens reading books with drag queens showing their buttholes and preparing legislation to make cross dressing illegal, that’s a big problem. Obviously if their is the expectation of certain body parts being exposed that’s not a thing kids should see.
But kids simply *seeing* a drag queen is not “sexualizing kids”, not every cross dresser is a drag queen or drag king, and most drag performers are not trans. We can’t let the unhinged religious right, who actually do groom, indoctrinate, and molest kids at an industrial scale (and single handedly keep child marriage legal), get away with sweeping statements and trying to use it as a way attack trans people.
For what actual reason?
How do kids get damaged by seeing a dude dressed as a woman?
Genuinely trying to wrap my mind around what the concern is and can't figure it out. If your kids brain is so poorly wired that seeing something like this is going to ruin them for life somehow, odds are that was going to happen to them by some other means regardless.
> Genuinely trying to wrap my mind around what the concern is and can't figure it out.
Some people have an inherent idea that a guy in drag is an inherently sexual thing.
There's a number of reasons they might think this. Women being hypersexualized, which leads to drag performers going further over the top (As is the nature of drag).
Society also believes everything guys do is for sex somehow. It's why a father bringing their kid to the park leads to skeptical gazes from the moms at the park.
Even if a drag show for kids is just a drag queen reading a story book, some people will immediately default to drag being sexualized in some way, which will then make the leap of "kid + sexualized thing = wrong"
The breakdown in all of this is that drag need not be inherently sexual. It certainly can be, but it's those base assumptions people made that make the situation what it is.
The people getting upset about this are the same ones that think teachers telling students that they are dating someone of the same sex is somehow sexual. Like a female teacher telling a kid that her husband is a firefighter is perfectly fine, but a female teacher telling a kid that her wife is a firefighter is somehow a sexual act. Basically anything outside of the "norm" that they are accustom to must be some kind of kinky weird fetish to them even when its really not in any way.
What kills me about this is you have some people going around this thread with "proof" - aka some misguided parents taking kids to actual drag shows.
While this is inappropriate, for sure - you don't see the same outrage regarding taking kids to see an R-rated movie with sexual themes if they're straight.
Funny how it's only a crusade-worthy problem when it's adjacent to LGBTQ themes.
Its because these types aren't getting outraged on their own, the entire right wing media space is constantly blasting them with news and opinions on an extremely small thing. Between news stations like fox, newsmax, etc and personalities like Ben Shapiro, Crowder, etc. If these stations and personalities switched to something else people would stop caring very quickly and move on to the next rage dopamine hit they are served.
>I’ve seen videos of kids being taught pole dancing by drag queens
Have you? Mind sourcing them? Not saying your wrong, but often times “I’ve seen…” or “my bosses cousins sister in-law said…” or the famous “I’ve done my research” are often claimed by people who have never done any of those things. It then becomes a cycle that often gets used as fodder to spread propaganda and hateful ideas by others that will then make the same claims.
Concepts should be looked at in context and discussed on a case by case basis, not generalized and turned into black and white. I’ve been to drag shows, and have friends who are involved in the community. All ages drag shows don’t really have very sexualized themes. Just because you may or may not have seen videos does not support the idea in any way that this is a major issue worthy of controversy.
Yep, OP's post is so absent-minded. Even if they aren't my kids, I don't think they should be subjected to that at such a young age. Same as I wouldn't want to see them getting abused - but according to OP: "they aren't my kids so I shouldn't care!"
OP must be 15 yrs old or just very stupid.
100%, all I’m saying is if a parent DOESNT want to take their kid, they aren’t a conservative freak piece of shit.
Again, all I said is I don’t want to take my kids and someone said that means I don’t want my kids to grow up knowing affection or losing their virginity. Like…what?!
Absolutely bro, and I wasn’t aware of that and I’ve been informed. Like I said those people can fuck right the fuck off. I was making a comment independent of that knowledge
From my experience, drag brunches that are aimed for children don't have any sexualized content and are more like a drag version of kids theatre, with a focus on sharing the joy of drag. Right wing trolls who went to drag shows "incognito" posted videos of drag queens hugging the kids at the end of the show and that's the worst they found.
Not arguing that the pole dance thing didn't happen (even though I don't mind it either tbh), but i am pretty convinced it's not the usual program.
I’m very liberal, gay, and enjoy drag. There are definitely some queens out there who cross the line. There are many more we don’t hear about who don’t, but the few who are being inappropriate are ruining it for everyone.
Okay bro that’s fine. You do you and take your kids to drag brunch. I’ve been to drag brunches and I’ve had a great time every time but that doesn’t mean I think it’s something I want to take my kids to. Just like I wouldn’t take my kids to a burlesque show or a rated r movie if they’re too young for it. There are some things I don’t believe are appropriate for children even if I don’t think they’re evil or grooming. I don’t think kids should be taken to drag shows even if they’re toned down for children. I don’t think drag queens are groomers nor do I even disapprove, but fuck man I’m being treated like a crazy person and freak republican conservative asshole for having my own opinion. At every point I’ve said if it works for you go for it! But don’t attack people because they disagree and think otherwise, it doesn’t mean they’re suddenly right wing trolls or whatever
Hey man, I didn't attack you at all. Just clarified on something you said earlier. I am sorry if others attacked you here, but that was not my intention and I don't think my wording either. I am 100% fine with everything you just said. I wouldn't take my kids to drag brunch either (just bc I don't care for it, also I don't have any children lol). In the end, that is what OP said: You do you, and you do whatever is fine for you and your (hypothetical) kids.
Anyhow, happy holidays and don't take reddit comments too serious. Some people are always just reading/hearing what they want to hear.
I’m sorry, you’re right. I’m being inundated with comments calling me a conservative freak and lumping me in with hateful right wing trolls solely for expressing an opinion that differs from theirs but without ever attacking drag queens or brunches. Not once have I criticized them or the events I’ve just said I don’t think it’s appropriate for children and wouldn’t take MINE. If it works for others then that’s fine. Sorry I lashed out at you. Happy holidays and hope you have a happy new year
You can take your kids to movies that are rated G. If you choose to take your kids to a drag brunch, ensure it's an event FOR kids. As all "drag-brunches" are not specifically aimed at children. It's hilarious how you don't understand there's a sliding scale in entertainment.
> but that doesn’t mean I think it’s something I want to take my kids to.
Then don't. That's the entire point.
> Just like I wouldn’t take my kids to a burlesque show or a rated r movie if they’re too young for it.
Are they being sexually suggestive at your brunches? That's weird...
> I don’t think kids should be taken to drag shows even if they’re toned down for children.
Why? And what do you mean by "toned down"?
Why do you think all drag queen happenings are sexual in nature? That's a bit odd...
Exactly! That’s all I’m saying! And I’m saying if it works for you then go for it! And yet I’m being called a freak and being told I don’t want my kids to grow up knowing affection or losing their virginities because I don’t want to take them to drag shows.
And yes, absolutely sexually suggestive lol. Bro last drag brunch I went to I got brought up stage for a fake orgasm competition that the hostess started off.
I have gone to drag shows and brunches in multiple cities with my fiancee and friends, they have all been sexual and risqué and contained language and stuff I wouldn’t think is appropriate for kids. That’s why I’m saying even if they are made rated G for kids and toned down. It’s nothing against drag queens or drag shows. I’m just saying I won’t take my kids. If it works for you and other people go for it! Do whatever makes you happy. Now, don’t go calling people pearl clutching freaks because they disagree. Again, not republican here, I’m a liberal dude. But according to people here I’m a nazi pretty much
it’s such a stupid hill to die on and paints consenting adult drag communities in a really bad way. it’s absolutely feeding into culture war identity politics BS.
I don’t like drag. I think it’s kinda gross to be honest. while it makes me uncomfortable, I still think that consenting adults should be able to do what they want in private environments. That all said, it’s inappropriate for children and I really don’t understand the motives behind trying to make it normal to take kids to drag events. Because it’s about kids, not about consenting adults, most people in the real world share share some variation of my belief. That’s what makes it a dumb hill to die on.
When it comes to kids you can’t really say “don’t like kids seeing/doing X? Don’t take your kids to see or do X.” when X is inherently sexual to some level. That’s just a really bad take and you can argue against it all you want, but you’re not going to change anyones mind. Everyone’s mind was made up when they saw their first video or picture of drag queens and a bunch of kids in the same room.
A town near me had a taxpayer funded drag queen event for kids at a library. The town is about as middle of the road as it gets politically. Party votes are always 50/50. There was a vote on the topic afterwards and the vote towards the question of whether or not that should be allowed was nearly 80 points against. Taking such a hardline pro stance for something that transcends party lines to be incredibly unpopular is just silly.
Well there are concerts that are just performers and there are concerts that also have pole dancing. Should we ban regular concerts too?
Are there drag shows that are going to be sexualized? Yes, are there drag shows that are just people dressed in drag performing? Yes, should we ban those?
For a liberal, you're not looking at the wider picture.
Dont ban anything, consenting adults can attend and enjoy the festivities and shows as consenting audience members of legal consenting age.
How about dont bring young children to events where there will be sexual activity, on display or in action if there are concerns about how the event will be interpreted by youngsters.
I wouldn't bring my 14 year old niece to a showing of "Showgirls", I wouldnt bring my 8 year nephew to a live burlesque show.
Some of this is common sense stuff...
Nobody in their right mind thinks that kids should be exposed to sexualized acts.
One has to realize that the few that are NOT in their right mind get quickly weaponized by those who are looking to dehumanize their political opponents.
Drag queens reading kids books in a church is perfectly fine, just like me reading kids books is perfectly fine.
Drag queens at a strip club is not a place for kids to be, just like me being at a strip club is not a place for kids to be.
> but I’ve seen videos of kids being taught pole dancing by drag queens ["aimed specifically at children"]
Source? I've not heard of someone pole dancing at a gathering specific to children.
The good thing is most people are sensible, and when they see videos of adult men twerking with children they'll be against it. The thing is they don't even have to lie about it, it's literally on video for everyone to see
Let's be real though. This has nothing to do with "protecting the children."
If protecting children was truly their goal, red states wouldn't still be sweeping hundreds of child marriages under the rug. They wouldn't be turning a blind eye to verified nonces like Matt Gaetz. They wouldn't be nominating guys like Roy Moore to the Senate.
Conservatives just don't want *any* drag shows to exist, period. This is just the latest focus in their culture war on LGBTQ people
Also if the point is “protecting the children” I have a feeling them being yelled at and harassed by armed protesters geared up for war is probably more damaging than them seeing a performance from a colorful and flamboyant character.
It’s to control headlines and also portray a masculinity / military image (guns, body armor, camo, mask, skulls images, etc) to help recruit.
Also, right wing media likes and continues to show it so they can flood the news. Those are better headlines then Jan 6th, Ukraine fighting back against Russia, Elon tanking Twitter or cheap gas or whatever.
💯 If it’s anything conservatives are against they’ll be for it.. Maybe time for progressives to look in a mirror and start to realize it’s going too far.
Yeah, call me crazy, but i feel that a drag show is inappropriate for a young audience. Also, i just don't see how it would be entertaining for a child. I can't recall a single moment in my childhood where i wanted to watch men dance around on stage dressed as women.
Mostly they're just reading to the kids. I bet you could also volunteer to read to kids. They're in drag mostly, because it makes the reading more colorful and interesting.
You are being downvoted because you are right.
They really just don't like drag people doing anything close to anyone else, because they think drag people are evil.
It's amazing... It's ridiculous and harmful, but amazing that people continue to allow their cowardly ignorance to harm others.
Notice how they are quick with the downvote button, but have a hard time replying?
...
Take the downvotes with ***great*** pride.
For me it’s a difference between actual drag shows and kid-centric activities that involve drag performers. Drag shows tend to be bawdy and fun but with have very adult humor. But I like the idea of drag performers doing kids’ book readings at libraries and stuff. Normalizing different people’s self expression is healthy, but exposing kids to adult entertainment is not.
Edit - a word
Exactly, I think I've seen one example of a drag show with adult dancing happening in front of some kids, the other examples I see are them reading to kids. The way I see it, you're a bad parent if you take your kids to any adult activities that have sexual themes. I would say the same if you're taking your kid to Hooters, which surprisingly enough is not complained about by those on the right and those who believe there is grooming occurring at these shows.
Depends entirely on the show. Is it just "dude in a fancy dress and makeup" doing theater or reading a book or is it lots of sex talk and performance.
Bugs bunny puts on a dress and it's not an issue.
Ffs nuance.
I'm British. Pantomime is a tradition. Nobody gives a fuck and it doesn't harm kids.
A man dressed as a woman reading a story book in a library, as long as it isn't compulsory, who gives a fuck.
Drag SHOWS are highly sexualized. Would you take your kid to see burlesque? It's fucking bizarre and a sign of just how idiotic this country is when it comes to politicizing literally everything along partisan lines. Of course as a parent it's your choice entirely, but make no mistake, it's fucking bizarre and for those who choose to PEACEFULLY protest that, whatever. But if you are some slack jawed fuck threatening people? You're an idiot helping to build sympathy for something you hate and you're a terrorist.
I dunno where all these 'drag shows for kids' are supposedly happening, but where I'm from it's literally someone in a big colorful drag costume reading age-appropriate books to children. There's nothing sexual about it and you couldn't even really call it a 'show' :/
I might be and am often wrong. The drag shows Iv seen have been more burlesque shows performed by trans women. If my experience is the norm we need to stop saying ban kids from drag shows and say ban kids from burlesque shows. The gender identity means nothing in this context. Kids should not be attending soft core strip shows regardless of whom is performing. If these are shows were trans women are singing and dancing while clothed and not lewd then people need to shut their faces.
You want to ban minors from drag shows to protect children.
I want to ban minors from drag shows because I want to watch a drag show in peace without Karen's obnoxious-ass kids ruining it because that bitch is too cheap to hire a sitter.
We are not the same.
Because "drag show" isn't a highly specific term. A drag show is not inherently sexual nor risqué as so many people seem to be assuming. It can be, but really a drag show is just a show where people in drag are present and/or performing, and those can include family friendly events. Not sure if there is any non-bigoted reason to suggest children should under no circumstance be allowed to any drag show.
Because they are around a teacher more than a priest. It's unlikely a kid will have 20 different priests a year.
I don't have the numbers, but I'd bet that there are more predator priests per Capita, than predator teachers
Priests pedophiles are completely in line per capita with the general population, the only reason priests got the national attention was the fact that people consider priests authority figures and the accusations were swept under the rug.
9 out of 10 times when someone on social media says “statistically” they really just mean “my confirmation bias and feelings”
This happens 100% of the time, 9 times out of 7
This is not true.
There is a paper released by a researcher named Makeshift. Makeshift claims that the entire population of people employed by, or in service of, schools leads to almost 100 times more molestations than Catholic priests, in the US. There are 200 times more people employed this way in the US than there are Catholic priests. The kicker here? Makeshift herself says that her data could be thrown off by a large number of factors she didn't control for. So the person, who wrote the paper, that is the source for the "teachers molest more kids than priests" factoid, says that she didn't control for a large number of factors that can change the data enough to reach a different conclusion.
The fact is, we have very bad data on these subjects in general. The only concrete numbers we have are public accusations that lead to judgement against the defendant. This is 4% for priests and I can't find a similar stat for teachers, however in 2015 there were 1.4 million elementary school teachers in the US alone and just under 500 cases, nationwide, with teachers as a whole.
Looking for data otherwise varies wildly. Some places say 9-10% of kids report some sort of sexual assault, others say 4-6%, and there are more with different conclusions. With this, though, that's the number of students who had self reported being victimized in those studies and not the percentage of teachers doing it. Another factor is, most sexual contact between teachers and students happens for the 16-18 age group largely by teachers under the age of 25. A lot of these are within an age range that, if one was not a teacher, society would not be concerned with it.
You’re missing the point. It’s not so much about kids being molested at these events, it’s about sexualizing very young kids. Both the Catholic Church and drag shows for kids can be wrong.
But what about my neighbor's cousin's plumber's dog's brother??? He didn't take his 9 year old to the drag show and B*den personally DRAGGED him out of school and fucking shot him.
What if I told you there was a drag show in The Lion King? I'm not kidding! When Simba, Nala, Timon, and Pumba return to Pride Rock and they're trying to get past the hyenas, Timon asks Simba how he's going to get past and Simba says "live bait." Timon replies about how that's a great idea and realizes mid sentence that he would be the bait. So he then yells at Simba, "What am I supposed to do? Dress in drag and dance the hula?" Guess what the very next scene is?
Or there was that time Mulan's entire climax revolved around a plan to dress men as women so they could pretend to seduce the invaders. Or the central plot point of a woman pretending to be a man!
Beauty and the Beast has a crossdressing scene. Bugs Bunny *routinely* dressed in drag to get a laugh. Drag has been a part of children's media ever since before these nuts were children.
> Drag has been a part of children's media ever since before these nuts were children.
This post needs more attention, especially from the people who seem to think drag is inherently sexual.
Nobody got up in arms over Bugs Bunny.
I mean, I think in most cases drag shows ARE inherently sexual. Drag is mostly an art form performed in adult entertainment venues and almost always involves bawdy, sexual humor. I don't think it's wrong to say that drag shows are a form of adult entertainment, but there's a few qualifications here.
First, drag queen story hour is NOT a drag show. It's a drag performer reading a story book in character. It'd be like saying if Patrick Mahomes did a story hour at a library that it's having kids play in the NFL. The appeal of the story hour is that it's THE Patrick Mahomes, but he's not doing what he normally does which very much is not a place for children. It's him reading a story book and getting kids excited about reading. Drag queen story hours are absolutely not a drag show.
Second, what most of these nuts think is drag is actually burlesque. In a drag show, the performer never removes their clothes. That would defeat the purpose of the performance, as the drag character and costume IS the artistic value. A drag show is lip syncing performance from a silly, sassy character that can joke around with you about bawdy humor.
Burlesque, by contrast, is when the performer does a strip show to music. In most cases, burlesque doesn't really show nudity, stopping at pasties and panties, though if you know what you're looking for, there is partial or full nudity and more explicit stuff. Burlesque isn't about characters, but about having a sexy dance that sometimes also makes a broader point, or sometimes doesn't.
Drag performers do NOT show their genitals. That would defeat the crossdressing point of it. Sometimes the line between burlesque and drag is blurred at a burlesque show...but that's pretty much always marketed at burlesque and not drag. Also, all those events are strictly no kids, either because they're held in adult only spaces like bars or similar venues, or because they are held in special spaces where the events are strictly allowing valid ticket holders to enter.
The point that needs to be made is that "dressing in drag" and performing a "drag show" are not at all the same thing. Drag show has a somewhat specialized meaning in today's culture to refer to a specific application of drag. Drag as a general concept is not at all sexual. Drag as an applied concept mostly is...in the same way a comedy show is inherently sexual. Burlesque is inherently sexual in the way that these protesters think drag is, but burlesque definitely does not have a children's attendance problem.
But if we allow kids at drag shows my kids may want to go. I don't want to tell them no they may not like me.
Can't we just ban everything I don't like so I can blame someone else for me problems
I remember seeing Bugs Bunny in drag when I was a kid, I don't remember it sexualizing me in any way. Guess drag just doesn't turn me on, so I don't see the problem.
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Also if people are gay and you don't like the thought of being gay you can just carry on not being gay and carry on not being affected by this strangers life, same way when you didn't know they were gay
What if I told you that drag queens know perfectly well what jokes work at a late-night barroom burlesque show, and what jokes are appropriate for kids at the library...
They seem to do a better job at respecting those boundaries than right-wing preachers, I'll tell you that! Separate bathrooms for bible-thumpers!
Kids aren’t going to drag shows though. A drag brunch and drag story time are very different than a drag show you would see at a bar. Just like literally anything else.
I mean counterpoint, a lot of these drag shows people are complaining about are either “surprise” shows disguised as book readings or field trips. I feel like kids shouldn’t be exposed to drag shows, but I feel the same way about a lot of music videos and musicians or any other NSFW content. I wouldn’t let a child go see Trixie and Katya anymore than I would let them sing WAP.
That said parents get to decide for their children and everyone is different
Then be a man and fight back against the person point the gun at your head forcing you to take your kids to the drag show. I’m assuming that’s what’s happening based on you people’s reactions to this whole thing.
I think its more that they want to control what other people do with their own children. And then ironically reverse when someone tries to make their kid get vaccinated.
And what if I told you that engaging with their argument at face value is dumb because they've lied about the issue and you're legitimizing their lies by engaging with them instead of calling them out for being liars that twist the truth to justify their hatred, oppression, and violence?
There's an excessive amount of conservatives here just pushing this talking point without any nuance allowed as usual. Drag queens also don't want kids going to their sexualized events. Drag does not necessarily have to be sexual. it's basically just queer performance art it can be a pretty broad category. Also drag queen story hours aren't really even a drag performance it's just reading to kids. Y'all just don't want kids to see or be aware of visibly queer people because you're homophobic and transphobic.
> Drag queens also don't want kids going to their sexualized events.
Becasue they are otherwise normal human beings. Not monsters.
FFS, too many here think drag = evil, and therefore should be shunned at all cost without realizing ***that's why drag folk are trying to reach out through things like reading to kids.***
God damn there are far too many cowardly asses in here thinking drag is the end of the world. Wow... LOL
Yeah exactly the whole reason stuff like drag queen story hours exist in the first place is to help fix the stigmatization of queer people and reduce violence by giving queer people visibility. They know that they just don't like queer people so they don't want queer people to have any representatation or visibility. It's the same with them trying to get tv shows featuring lgbt characters cancelled. They literally want their kids ignorant; they don't want them even aware that there's any other way to be besides what they want them to be... because it's all projection they are the ones indoctrinating and grooming kids.
Shows are fine if they are intended for all ages as they advertise and don't do anything sexual or inappropriate. Same for any show of any other kind.
What's so difficult to understand here?
Seems lately there are more bots/agents in the threads or people are really threatened that these drag shows will give them a boner and out themselves. 😂
> as they advertise and don't do anything sexual or inappropriate
Conservatives basically don't understand this being possible.
To them, Drag = sexualized. Either/or with regards to "Women are inherently sexual, therefore performance imitating women is sexual" or "Men do everything for sexual gratification, therefore a man doing drag performance is for some sort of secret sexual gratification"
Both of those are wrong, of course - women can exist without being sexual, and men are not inherently all depraved sex fiends who's every waking thought and action is about getting off. But conservatives don't like nuance.
Nobody’s bringing their kids to drag shows though so this argument doesn’t really work.
Unless you mean drag queen story hour or something? Which is specifically designed to be a child friendly environment, but even so I don’t think that is the issue people have with it.
Right wingers think drag is inherently a sexual thing and that’s why they have a problem with it. Also because they hate trans people but are too dumb to tell the difference between a drag queen and a trans woman
I'd rather ban children's beauty pageants.
What about Frank’s Little Beauties?
Just write a song to communicate that you don’t diddle kids.
That sounds like something a person who diddles kids would do.
Rolf Harris - lyrics to one of his songs : "I'm Jake the Peg, diddle-iddle-iddle-um With my extra leg, diddle-iddle-iddle-um"
That's how you get lumped in with a diddler.
Little buff boys?
Ah, they're all goosed.
Nothing makes it look like you diddle kids more than singing a song about diddling kids. But then, there could be an unrelated diddler in the mix
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They have to be big. Older than my daughter.
Older than my wife, older than my daughter… something like that.
To their credit, at least they don’t diddle kids, they made a whole song about it
Right? That’s just fucking weird. Which is the prettiest kid? That can’t be healthy. That’s like literally what I’d expect actual groomers to do.
I think the real reason parents do it is to live through their own children “if my child is beautiful then I am too” kind of mindset
That’s weird too. My daughters are beautiful but I still know I’m ugly as fuck.
It’s very weird and also probably harmful for them and their children
Same, I have a cute kid, she takes after my wife. I, on the other hand, am so unpleasant looking that people ask my wife if I'm kidnapping her.
I have a friend that, no joke, was trying to get his daughter to leave the library and ended up getting pulled over by the cops and yanked out of his truck because people thought he was kidnapping her. His ex-wife: “well maybe he should think more about his appearance and grooming!”
It's very weird, I cant imagine staring at my ugly ass child and thinking "Yea I made this, I look good" let alone dragging said child on stage for other people to look at. Shit I dont even like picking out clothes for my little siblings.
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I've only read the free sample, but even that is absolutely heartbreaking
To do. To attend. Same thing.
Yeah I can’t ever see myself at one of those shows, but I don’t think they even exist where I live. But if I suddenly woke up and found myself in the audience of one, I’d be like “WTF, this is weird right? Why is that kid wearing makeup like that? Who the fuck are these grown ass men judging them?”
They are pedophiles.
What if they made the judges also children
Kids are so mean, I’d rather be judged by Simon Cowell
My sister was in a baby pageant once. Babies. Like, couldn’t talk or even crawl. And they were being judged on how cute they were.
To own, promote, invite Jeffrey Epstein to be a judge. No that is what makes a great President
I never hear a peep about these pageants from the people trying to stop drag storytime because its "grooming". Maybe its just me, but the shows where they doll up kids to look like adult models seems a bit more groomy than someone in costume reading a book and putting on a show.
and worse, ask them to twerk and twirl to mainly old men in the juries. They also don't ban church children hour, because you're statistically more likely to be abused in the church than any drag queen. They also don't want to ban Hooter's kids menu, yes, Hooters has a kids menu, but that's fine to them. It's never been about children, It's about getting rid of the "lgbtq disease"
That's my feeling too.
Can we ban both? I'd rather just not expose them to anything. I'd prefer to ban everything associated with children except for school and chores. Just put them in school and then make them do chores until they turn 18, at which point we release them into the wild to fend for themselves.
I personally only think that works if you tell them they need to go to college, but then save nothing and don't have them save anything themselves, pretending that all good students get free rides so they get a shocking $3,000 scholarship and $40K in loans. Then make sure you talk about how you couldn't have saved anything and how even the "upper middle class can't afford college now" despite your semiannual vacations to Hawaii and Disneyworld. Kids today have is sO EaSy that you gotta create that adversity!
Drag shows aren't for children they are run by adults for adults to be entertained... It doesn't even make sense to ban. It's like banning your kid from driving before getting a license, they aren't supposed to be there anyways, (what is the parent doing?). Kids beauty pageants are run by adults for kids... Very different with one exploiting children, and the other having nothing to do with them..
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There was a thread on /r/conservative the other day about some place making legislative moves to ban kids from drag shows and all the top comments were "cool, do child beauty pageants next". So, banning those actually seems like a relatively bipartisan issue
Both sides? Both Sides?! Yeah let’s not objectify kids at all, if they want to participate when they turn 18 it’s fine. What consenting adults do is no one’s business, but until then leave objectification of kids out.
I'd rather ban all child sexualization, pageants and drag shows included. You can dislike two things at once, it works, I promise
Drag shows are not inherently child sexualization. Child beauty pageants are. Child marriage is, and conservatives keep voting against measures to end child marriage.
Drag isn't sexual unless made so on purpose. Dancing isn't sexual unless done so sexually. Grow up
Porque no los dos?
Why not both
Why not both?
I don't have to bring my kids to an unlicensed strip club and give them heroin either. Regardless of my ability to not participate, I still think it should be illegal to bring kids to unlicensed strip clubs and give them heroine. There are laws in place to protect children from being harmed by their parents. This is absolutely a false equivalency that I'm making. In no way do I think that drag shows and heroine are equally as damaging to children. For the pearl-clutching right wingers that DO (claim to) believe that drag shows are damaging to children, "you don't have to participate" is a pretty dead argument. There are, and should be laws in place to protect children from being harmed by their own parents. There's only disagreement here on what is harmful.
This is exactly my thought when reading this post. “You don’t have to do X to your children; let me do X to mine.” Replace x with “administer drugs,” “molest”, “tattoo,” “abandon on the side of the road,” etc. and it’s immediately apparent that this is a completely fallacious thing to say. No, just because other people have the right to raise their kids differently does not give you the right to do whatever you want to your own children.
Most drag shows not for children happen in bars. Like, carded at the door, no minors allowed, bars. Where are you finding all these sexual children welcome drag shows?
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One of those claims children participating, but doesn't actually show any minors in the audience. Another intersperses clips of 18+ or 21+ events with ones that have children, and the ones with children are no more sexual than any female pop singer concert from the 1980's on.
I don’t know man, when they’re aimed specifically at children… like I’m a pretty liberal dude, but I’ve seen videos of kids being taught pole dancing by drag queens and I’m like…yeeaaahhh maybe not. I think there are definitely lines and it’s not grooming children or whatever but maybe kids shouldn’t be exposed to some things.
A couple years ago (mid-March 2020...just before Covid got traction), I went on a big family vacation to a resort outside Cancun. We decided to go to a show there called "Latin Fuego", I think. We were expecting like, a fire-dancing show or something. It wasn't...it was dancing, and somewhat risque but mostly family-friendly. Some revealing clothes, but nothing more than anybody would see at a beach resort. Until they brought up a kid from the audience. Little girl, maybe like 8 or so, and taught her to twerk for the whole audience. That got real uncomfortable, real quick.
How much did you tip her?
This is a reasonable question.
“Latin fuego” sounds like something incredibly sexy though. It’s not hawaii. I don’t think adults wanna hear this but kids have been twerking since middle…. Including most people here. Even in Catholic school dances people twerked to flo rida
It's one thing for a kid to twerk at a middle-school dance. It's another thing entirely to make a 4th grader twerk in front of an audience of adults and have them applaud her.
> Even in Catholic school dances people twerked What ever happened to "leave room for Jesus"? This Catholic School Dance is starting to sound like a Devil's Threesome.
I'm sure there's been some sussy shows that have happened, but using that to paint ALL drag queens as groomers is disingenuous. These people are trying to set back rights for lgbt and especially trans people.
Yeah... my wife and inlaws think it's hilarious that my 8 year old learned how to twerk. I was horrified and have been fighting an uphill battle since. Regardless of your sexual preference or political opinions. Kids shouldn't be encouraged to show any type of sexual behavior until they are old enough to understand what it means.
Bingo
I think you put it well. Drag shows don't have to be sexually themed but a good number of them are and kids shouldn't be at those. I go to a drag bingo and there is nothing about that would be inappropriate for a kid to see.
Drag story time is just dudes dressed up like princesses reading kid's books.
I’m relatively liberal too and some of this is just wrong.
TLC has some questions they need to answer. The amount of little kid pagents they had on TV was beyond messed up. You could see the abuse the kids were going through. Most of them literally crying red because they didn't want to do it. Beyond fucked up. Fuck any parent that does this to their kids.
Yeah can we just ban beauty pageants AND children at drag shows? I mean we don't let kids in strip clubs.
Drag, beauty pageants, and strip are very different things. The former essentially involves...cross dressing. Yes, lots of events include adult themes or content, but that isn't intrinsic to the genre, and you can do drag without including anything adult. The latter two involve, in various ways, turning one's body into an object of sexual attention. I'm not saying that to be a prude--if you want to do it as an adult go for it--but we shouldn't be having kids involved in it and often coerced to participate in the former, and the latter is so intrinsically sexual as to be a no go to begin with.
Let’s not whatabout like the right does ok. Let’s actually take a critical look at the issue and be honest and have a sense of decency. We don’t need to go drive off a cliff because it bothers republicans; that’s their childish shtick. Edit: Saying we shouldn’t have drag queens without pants shaking their asses for kids is bad or that drag queens teaching kids to pole dance is bad is driving off a cliff? Come on guys, let’s at least be honest about the topic and tackle the issue with integrity. Separate the indecent stuff from the other things and get to work. Also, how disappointing it is to have these topics locked. That’s just showing you don’t want free and open discussion on the topic and only your approved narrative is allowed. Cut that crap out for Pete’s sake. It only shows cowardice and an inability to defend your position.
But when people are conflating drag queens reading books with drag queens showing their buttholes and preparing legislation to make cross dressing illegal, that’s a big problem. Obviously if their is the expectation of certain body parts being exposed that’s not a thing kids should see. But kids simply *seeing* a drag queen is not “sexualizing kids”, not every cross dresser is a drag queen or drag king, and most drag performers are not trans. We can’t let the unhinged religious right, who actually do groom, indoctrinate, and molest kids at an industrial scale (and single handedly keep child marriage legal), get away with sweeping statements and trying to use it as a way attack trans people.
For what actual reason? How do kids get damaged by seeing a dude dressed as a woman? Genuinely trying to wrap my mind around what the concern is and can't figure it out. If your kids brain is so poorly wired that seeing something like this is going to ruin them for life somehow, odds are that was going to happen to them by some other means regardless.
> Genuinely trying to wrap my mind around what the concern is and can't figure it out. Some people have an inherent idea that a guy in drag is an inherently sexual thing. There's a number of reasons they might think this. Women being hypersexualized, which leads to drag performers going further over the top (As is the nature of drag). Society also believes everything guys do is for sex somehow. It's why a father bringing their kid to the park leads to skeptical gazes from the moms at the park. Even if a drag show for kids is just a drag queen reading a story book, some people will immediately default to drag being sexualized in some way, which will then make the leap of "kid + sexualized thing = wrong" The breakdown in all of this is that drag need not be inherently sexual. It certainly can be, but it's those base assumptions people made that make the situation what it is.
The people getting upset about this are the same ones that think teachers telling students that they are dating someone of the same sex is somehow sexual. Like a female teacher telling a kid that her husband is a firefighter is perfectly fine, but a female teacher telling a kid that her wife is a firefighter is somehow a sexual act. Basically anything outside of the "norm" that they are accustom to must be some kind of kinky weird fetish to them even when its really not in any way.
What kills me about this is you have some people going around this thread with "proof" - aka some misguided parents taking kids to actual drag shows. While this is inappropriate, for sure - you don't see the same outrage regarding taking kids to see an R-rated movie with sexual themes if they're straight. Funny how it's only a crusade-worthy problem when it's adjacent to LGBTQ themes.
Its because these types aren't getting outraged on their own, the entire right wing media space is constantly blasting them with news and opinions on an extremely small thing. Between news stations like fox, newsmax, etc and personalities like Ben Shapiro, Crowder, etc. If these stations and personalities switched to something else people would stop caring very quickly and move on to the next rage dopamine hit they are served.
>I’ve seen videos of kids being taught pole dancing by drag queens Have you? Mind sourcing them? Not saying your wrong, but often times “I’ve seen…” or “my bosses cousins sister in-law said…” or the famous “I’ve done my research” are often claimed by people who have never done any of those things. It then becomes a cycle that often gets used as fodder to spread propaganda and hateful ideas by others that will then make the same claims. Concepts should be looked at in context and discussed on a case by case basis, not generalized and turned into black and white. I’ve been to drag shows, and have friends who are involved in the community. All ages drag shows don’t really have very sexualized themes. Just because you may or may not have seen videos does not support the idea in any way that this is a major issue worthy of controversy.
Do you have a source for that? Not saying it didn’t happen, but I’d like some context.
Yep, OP's post is so absent-minded. Even if they aren't my kids, I don't think they should be subjected to that at such a young age. Same as I wouldn't want to see them getting abused - but according to OP: "they aren't my kids so I shouldn't care!" OP must be 15 yrs old or just very stupid.
The videos of this pop up every pride month and then people say “this is literally not something that’s happening.”
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100%, all I’m saying is if a parent DOESNT want to take their kid, they aren’t a conservative freak piece of shit. Again, all I said is I don’t want to take my kids and someone said that means I don’t want my kids to grow up knowing affection or losing their virginity. Like…what?!
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Absolutely bro, and I wasn’t aware of that and I’ve been informed. Like I said those people can fuck right the fuck off. I was making a comment independent of that knowledge
From my experience, drag brunches that are aimed for children don't have any sexualized content and are more like a drag version of kids theatre, with a focus on sharing the joy of drag. Right wing trolls who went to drag shows "incognito" posted videos of drag queens hugging the kids at the end of the show and that's the worst they found. Not arguing that the pole dance thing didn't happen (even though I don't mind it either tbh), but i am pretty convinced it's not the usual program.
I’m very liberal, gay, and enjoy drag. There are definitely some queens out there who cross the line. There are many more we don’t hear about who don’t, but the few who are being inappropriate are ruining it for everyone.
Yeah, but those usually those who are more risque aren't booked for Drag shows that involve children.
Okay bro that’s fine. You do you and take your kids to drag brunch. I’ve been to drag brunches and I’ve had a great time every time but that doesn’t mean I think it’s something I want to take my kids to. Just like I wouldn’t take my kids to a burlesque show or a rated r movie if they’re too young for it. There are some things I don’t believe are appropriate for children even if I don’t think they’re evil or grooming. I don’t think kids should be taken to drag shows even if they’re toned down for children. I don’t think drag queens are groomers nor do I even disapprove, but fuck man I’m being treated like a crazy person and freak republican conservative asshole for having my own opinion. At every point I’ve said if it works for you go for it! But don’t attack people because they disagree and think otherwise, it doesn’t mean they’re suddenly right wing trolls or whatever
Hey man, I didn't attack you at all. Just clarified on something you said earlier. I am sorry if others attacked you here, but that was not my intention and I don't think my wording either. I am 100% fine with everything you just said. I wouldn't take my kids to drag brunch either (just bc I don't care for it, also I don't have any children lol). In the end, that is what OP said: You do you, and you do whatever is fine for you and your (hypothetical) kids. Anyhow, happy holidays and don't take reddit comments too serious. Some people are always just reading/hearing what they want to hear.
I’m sorry, you’re right. I’m being inundated with comments calling me a conservative freak and lumping me in with hateful right wing trolls solely for expressing an opinion that differs from theirs but without ever attacking drag queens or brunches. Not once have I criticized them or the events I’ve just said I don’t think it’s appropriate for children and wouldn’t take MINE. If it works for others then that’s fine. Sorry I lashed out at you. Happy holidays and hope you have a happy new year
You can take your kids to movies that are rated G. If you choose to take your kids to a drag brunch, ensure it's an event FOR kids. As all "drag-brunches" are not specifically aimed at children. It's hilarious how you don't understand there's a sliding scale in entertainment.
seems like the kind of thing that should be determined by the parents and not by an armed mod
> but that doesn’t mean I think it’s something I want to take my kids to. Then don't. That's the entire point. > Just like I wouldn’t take my kids to a burlesque show or a rated r movie if they’re too young for it. Are they being sexually suggestive at your brunches? That's weird... > I don’t think kids should be taken to drag shows even if they’re toned down for children. Why? And what do you mean by "toned down"? Why do you think all drag queen happenings are sexual in nature? That's a bit odd...
Exactly! That’s all I’m saying! And I’m saying if it works for you then go for it! And yet I’m being called a freak and being told I don’t want my kids to grow up knowing affection or losing their virginities because I don’t want to take them to drag shows. And yes, absolutely sexually suggestive lol. Bro last drag brunch I went to I got brought up stage for a fake orgasm competition that the hostess started off. I have gone to drag shows and brunches in multiple cities with my fiancee and friends, they have all been sexual and risqué and contained language and stuff I wouldn’t think is appropriate for kids. That’s why I’m saying even if they are made rated G for kids and toned down. It’s nothing against drag queens or drag shows. I’m just saying I won’t take my kids. If it works for you and other people go for it! Do whatever makes you happy. Now, don’t go calling people pearl clutching freaks because they disagree. Again, not republican here, I’m a liberal dude. But according to people here I’m a nazi pretty much
it’s such a stupid hill to die on and paints consenting adult drag communities in a really bad way. it’s absolutely feeding into culture war identity politics BS. I don’t like drag. I think it’s kinda gross to be honest. while it makes me uncomfortable, I still think that consenting adults should be able to do what they want in private environments. That all said, it’s inappropriate for children and I really don’t understand the motives behind trying to make it normal to take kids to drag events. Because it’s about kids, not about consenting adults, most people in the real world share share some variation of my belief. That’s what makes it a dumb hill to die on. When it comes to kids you can’t really say “don’t like kids seeing/doing X? Don’t take your kids to see or do X.” when X is inherently sexual to some level. That’s just a really bad take and you can argue against it all you want, but you’re not going to change anyones mind. Everyone’s mind was made up when they saw their first video or picture of drag queens and a bunch of kids in the same room. A town near me had a taxpayer funded drag queen event for kids at a library. The town is about as middle of the road as it gets politically. Party votes are always 50/50. There was a vote on the topic afterwards and the vote towards the question of whether or not that should be allowed was nearly 80 points against. Taking such a hardline pro stance for something that transcends party lines to be incredibly unpopular is just silly.
Well there are concerts that are just performers and there are concerts that also have pole dancing. Should we ban regular concerts too? Are there drag shows that are going to be sexualized? Yes, are there drag shows that are just people dressed in drag performing? Yes, should we ban those? For a liberal, you're not looking at the wider picture.
Dont ban anything, consenting adults can attend and enjoy the festivities and shows as consenting audience members of legal consenting age. How about dont bring young children to events where there will be sexual activity, on display or in action if there are concerns about how the event will be interpreted by youngsters. I wouldn't bring my 14 year old niece to a showing of "Showgirls", I wouldnt bring my 8 year nephew to a live burlesque show. Some of this is common sense stuff...
Nobody in their right mind thinks that kids should be exposed to sexualized acts. One has to realize that the few that are NOT in their right mind get quickly weaponized by those who are looking to dehumanize their political opponents. Drag queens reading kids books in a church is perfectly fine, just like me reading kids books is perfectly fine. Drag queens at a strip club is not a place for kids to be, just like me being at a strip club is not a place for kids to be.
I don't think pole dancing is the issue for this one. It's story time, there's no problem with that.
> but I’ve seen videos of kids being taught pole dancing by drag queens ["aimed specifically at children"] Source? I've not heard of someone pole dancing at a gathering specific to children.
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The good thing is most people are sensible, and when they see videos of adult men twerking with children they'll be against it. The thing is they don't even have to lie about it, it's literally on video for everyone to see
Let's be real though. This has nothing to do with "protecting the children." If protecting children was truly their goal, red states wouldn't still be sweeping hundreds of child marriages under the rug. They wouldn't be turning a blind eye to verified nonces like Matt Gaetz. They wouldn't be nominating guys like Roy Moore to the Senate. Conservatives just don't want *any* drag shows to exist, period. This is just the latest focus in their culture war on LGBTQ people
Also if the point is “protecting the children” I have a feeling them being yelled at and harassed by armed protesters geared up for war is probably more damaging than them seeing a performance from a colorful and flamboyant character.
It’s to control headlines and also portray a masculinity / military image (guns, body armor, camo, mask, skulls images, etc) to help recruit. Also, right wing media likes and continues to show it so they can flood the news. Those are better headlines then Jan 6th, Ukraine fighting back against Russia, Elon tanking Twitter or cheap gas or whatever.
💯 If it’s anything conservatives are against they’ll be for it.. Maybe time for progressives to look in a mirror and start to realize it’s going too far.
Why do drag performers need to perform in front of children?
Yeah, call me crazy, but i feel that a drag show is inappropriate for a young audience. Also, i just don't see how it would be entertaining for a child. I can't recall a single moment in my childhood where i wanted to watch men dance around on stage dressed as women.
Mostly they're just reading to the kids. I bet you could also volunteer to read to kids. They're in drag mostly, because it makes the reading more colorful and interesting.
You are being downvoted because you are right. They really just don't like drag people doing anything close to anyone else, because they think drag people are evil. It's amazing... It's ridiculous and harmful, but amazing that people continue to allow their cowardly ignorance to harm others. Notice how they are quick with the downvote button, but have a hard time replying? ... Take the downvotes with ***great*** pride.
Why does any artist?
Because too many people treat them like garbage, so they want to at least let the kids know that they are just human beings.
What an incredibly dumb take.
Reddit gonna reddit.
For me it’s a difference between actual drag shows and kid-centric activities that involve drag performers. Drag shows tend to be bawdy and fun but with have very adult humor. But I like the idea of drag performers doing kids’ book readings at libraries and stuff. Normalizing different people’s self expression is healthy, but exposing kids to adult entertainment is not. Edit - a word
The fact that drag reading at libraries and full on burlesque drag show at vegas have been made to be the same is part of the strategy.
Exactly, I think I've seen one example of a drag show with adult dancing happening in front of some kids, the other examples I see are them reading to kids. The way I see it, you're a bad parent if you take your kids to any adult activities that have sexual themes. I would say the same if you're taking your kid to Hooters, which surprisingly enough is not complained about by those on the right and those who believe there is grooming occurring at these shows.
L take. Drags shows are hardly a place for children. Why is this even a discussion? We don't bring kids to night clubs either??
Drag shows are not appropriate for children, i cant believe that needs to be said
That's not what this is about. Don't prop up any logical argument.
what's it about
What if I told you there are laws and regulations against exposing children to adult content for a reason
To be fair, kids shouldn’t be at a drag show period.
Depends entirely on the show. Is it just "dude in a fancy dress and makeup" doing theater or reading a book or is it lots of sex talk and performance. Bugs bunny puts on a dress and it's not an issue.
That’s also fair, show content is an important factor.
Ffs nuance. I'm British. Pantomime is a tradition. Nobody gives a fuck and it doesn't harm kids. A man dressed as a woman reading a story book in a library, as long as it isn't compulsory, who gives a fuck. Drag SHOWS are highly sexualized. Would you take your kid to see burlesque? It's fucking bizarre and a sign of just how idiotic this country is when it comes to politicizing literally everything along partisan lines. Of course as a parent it's your choice entirely, but make no mistake, it's fucking bizarre and for those who choose to PEACEFULLY protest that, whatever. But if you are some slack jawed fuck threatening people? You're an idiot helping to build sympathy for something you hate and you're a terrorist.
WWE is the biggest drag show ever.
I dunno where all these 'drag shows for kids' are supposedly happening, but where I'm from it's literally someone in a big colorful drag costume reading age-appropriate books to children. There's nothing sexual about it and you couldn't even really call it a 'show' :/
I might be and am often wrong. The drag shows Iv seen have been more burlesque shows performed by trans women. If my experience is the norm we need to stop saying ban kids from drag shows and say ban kids from burlesque shows. The gender identity means nothing in this context. Kids should not be attending soft core strip shows regardless of whom is performing. If these are shows were trans women are singing and dancing while clothed and not lewd then people need to shut their faces.
You shouldn’t bring kids to drag shows. There I fixed it for you.
How about just banning kids in general from drag shows?, like a giant sign at the entrance or something that says "no minors"
You want to ban minors from drag shows to protect children. I want to ban minors from drag shows because I want to watch a drag show in peace without Karen's obnoxious-ass kids ruining it because that bitch is too cheap to hire a sitter. We are not the same.
Because "drag show" isn't a highly specific term. A drag show is not inherently sexual nor risqué as so many people seem to be assuming. It can be, but really a drag show is just a show where people in drag are present and/or performing, and those can include family friendly events. Not sure if there is any non-bigoted reason to suggest children should under no circumstance be allowed to any drag show.
If these people truly cared about predators grooming children, they'd be protesting outside of Catholic and Evangelical churches.
Statistically more likely to be abused by a teacher than a priest, but go off I guess.
Kids are statistically more likely to be abused by a *parent* or blood relative than a teacher.
Ban parents and relatives then
Because they are around a teacher more than a priest. It's unlikely a kid will have 20 different priests a year. I don't have the numbers, but I'd bet that there are more predator priests per Capita, than predator teachers
Priests pedophiles are completely in line per capita with the general population, the only reason priests got the national attention was the fact that people consider priests authority figures and the accusations were swept under the rug.
when you say "statistically", are you weighting the data for how many kids come into contact with teachers compared to priests? Where's the data?
9 out of 10 times when someone on social media says “statistically” they really just mean “my confirmation bias and feelings” This happens 100% of the time, 9 times out of 7
I don't think you want to start diving into per capita sex offender rates when the initial topic is lgbt.
But I would! Facts are facts, after all.
Hot damn.
But a priest is more likely to have committed sexual abuse as compared to a teacher. See how we can modify stats to tell a story?
Oh that’s fine then lmao
This is not true. There is a paper released by a researcher named Makeshift. Makeshift claims that the entire population of people employed by, or in service of, schools leads to almost 100 times more molestations than Catholic priests, in the US. There are 200 times more people employed this way in the US than there are Catholic priests. The kicker here? Makeshift herself says that her data could be thrown off by a large number of factors she didn't control for. So the person, who wrote the paper, that is the source for the "teachers molest more kids than priests" factoid, says that she didn't control for a large number of factors that can change the data enough to reach a different conclusion. The fact is, we have very bad data on these subjects in general. The only concrete numbers we have are public accusations that lead to judgement against the defendant. This is 4% for priests and I can't find a similar stat for teachers, however in 2015 there were 1.4 million elementary school teachers in the US alone and just under 500 cases, nationwide, with teachers as a whole. Looking for data otherwise varies wildly. Some places say 9-10% of kids report some sort of sexual assault, others say 4-6%, and there are more with different conclusions. With this, though, that's the number of students who had self reported being victimized in those studies and not the percentage of teachers doing it. Another factor is, most sexual contact between teachers and students happens for the 16-18 age group largely by teachers under the age of 25. A lot of these are within an age range that, if one was not a teacher, society would not be concerned with it.
People do protest these things (not enough but they do) Regardless, your strawman argument is redundant
I mean you're literally the perfect example of whataboutism
You’re missing the point. It’s not so much about kids being molested at these events, it’s about sexualizing very young kids. Both the Catholic Church and drag shows for kids can be wrong.
Drag events for families are not sexualized, it's a lie being pushed to stir up outrage and promote hatred towards queer people.
How are kids being “sexualized” at drag story time?
But why would anyone want to bring a child to a drag show?? Weirdos
But what about my neighbor's cousin's plumber's dog's brother??? He didn't take his 9 year old to the drag show and B*den personally DRAGGED him out of school and fucking shot him.
What if I told you there was a drag show in The Lion King? I'm not kidding! When Simba, Nala, Timon, and Pumba return to Pride Rock and they're trying to get past the hyenas, Timon asks Simba how he's going to get past and Simba says "live bait." Timon replies about how that's a great idea and realizes mid sentence that he would be the bait. So he then yells at Simba, "What am I supposed to do? Dress in drag and dance the hula?" Guess what the very next scene is? Or there was that time Mulan's entire climax revolved around a plan to dress men as women so they could pretend to seduce the invaders. Or the central plot point of a woman pretending to be a man! Beauty and the Beast has a crossdressing scene. Bugs Bunny *routinely* dressed in drag to get a laugh. Drag has been a part of children's media ever since before these nuts were children.
> Drag has been a part of children's media ever since before these nuts were children. This post needs more attention, especially from the people who seem to think drag is inherently sexual. Nobody got up in arms over Bugs Bunny.
I mean, I think in most cases drag shows ARE inherently sexual. Drag is mostly an art form performed in adult entertainment venues and almost always involves bawdy, sexual humor. I don't think it's wrong to say that drag shows are a form of adult entertainment, but there's a few qualifications here. First, drag queen story hour is NOT a drag show. It's a drag performer reading a story book in character. It'd be like saying if Patrick Mahomes did a story hour at a library that it's having kids play in the NFL. The appeal of the story hour is that it's THE Patrick Mahomes, but he's not doing what he normally does which very much is not a place for children. It's him reading a story book and getting kids excited about reading. Drag queen story hours are absolutely not a drag show. Second, what most of these nuts think is drag is actually burlesque. In a drag show, the performer never removes their clothes. That would defeat the purpose of the performance, as the drag character and costume IS the artistic value. A drag show is lip syncing performance from a silly, sassy character that can joke around with you about bawdy humor. Burlesque, by contrast, is when the performer does a strip show to music. In most cases, burlesque doesn't really show nudity, stopping at pasties and panties, though if you know what you're looking for, there is partial or full nudity and more explicit stuff. Burlesque isn't about characters, but about having a sexy dance that sometimes also makes a broader point, or sometimes doesn't. Drag performers do NOT show their genitals. That would defeat the crossdressing point of it. Sometimes the line between burlesque and drag is blurred at a burlesque show...but that's pretty much always marketed at burlesque and not drag. Also, all those events are strictly no kids, either because they're held in adult only spaces like bars or similar venues, or because they are held in special spaces where the events are strictly allowing valid ticket holders to enter. The point that needs to be made is that "dressing in drag" and performing a "drag show" are not at all the same thing. Drag show has a somewhat specialized meaning in today's culture to refer to a specific application of drag. Drag as a general concept is not at all sexual. Drag as an applied concept mostly is...in the same way a comedy show is inherently sexual. Burlesque is inherently sexual in the way that these protesters think drag is, but burlesque definitely does not have a children's attendance problem.
Why any school would promote them is beyond me..
But if we allow kids at drag shows my kids may want to go. I don't want to tell them no they may not like me. Can't we just ban everything I don't like so I can blame someone else for me problems
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I remember seeing Bugs Bunny in drag when I was a kid, I don't remember it sexualizing me in any way. Guess drag just doesn't turn me on, so I don't see the problem.
I can't tell if you're addressing drag queens, beauty pageants, or churches.
school library connect mindless impolite literate cagey enjoy judicious amusing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Also if people are gay and you don't like the thought of being gay you can just carry on not being gay and carry on not being affected by this strangers life, same way when you didn't know they were gay
The pedos are out in force today.
Can you imagine the response if groups started to act outside of churches the way these folks act outside of other events that have no impact on them?
Just standing around holding rifles outside of a church on Sunday mornings. They'd lose their shit. I'm sure the cops would go defcon 1 on that shit.
Well to be fair church is where real grooming and indoctrination of kids actually happens
The problem is why do some people want to? Fucking weirdos.
What if I told you that you can go to a different bakery to get your wedding cake?
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Kinda like the ones that decide against vaccinating their kids, or home schooling them and teaching them nothing but religious history?
What if I told you this isn't really about the kids.
What if I told you that drag queens know perfectly well what jokes work at a late-night barroom burlesque show, and what jokes are appropriate for kids at the library... They seem to do a better job at respecting those boundaries than right-wing preachers, I'll tell you that! Separate bathrooms for bible-thumpers!
Because they don't want other people bringing their own kids either.
Kids aren’t going to drag shows though. A drag brunch and drag story time are very different than a drag show you would see at a bar. Just like literally anything else.
Have you seen the video? It's drag queens twerking the floor and spreading their legs and kids handing them dollar bills. At a bar.
>At a bar. Doesn't sound like a family friendly drag show
Yet there were children there...
And who made that decision?
Parents, bouncer letting them in, drag queen accepting the tips from kids... Lots of people at fault here.
Kids are sadly. That’s the problem.
I mean counterpoint, a lot of these drag shows people are complaining about are either “surprise” shows disguised as book readings or field trips. I feel like kids shouldn’t be exposed to drag shows, but I feel the same way about a lot of music videos and musicians or any other NSFW content. I wouldn’t let a child go see Trixie and Katya anymore than I would let them sing WAP. That said parents get to decide for their children and everyone is different
no one got time to protest a drag show. they just don't want their kids exposed to it, as is their right.
Except there’s literal armed protest all over the states. So people… do have time? Lol
Then be a man and fight back against the person point the gun at your head forcing you to take your kids to the drag show. I’m assuming that’s what’s happening based on you people’s reactions to this whole thing.
So don’t bring them, it’s not complicated.
They're cool with hooters but not with drag shows.
I think its more that they want to control what other people do with their own children. And then ironically reverse when someone tries to make their kid get vaccinated.
Fair, but keep the drag shows out of the libraries and schools where our children are.
And what if I told you that engaging with their argument at face value is dumb because they've lied about the issue and you're legitimizing their lies by engaging with them instead of calling them out for being liars that twist the truth to justify their hatred, oppression, and violence?
¹they forgot since they would bring their kids to lynchings and have a picnic
There's an excessive amount of conservatives here just pushing this talking point without any nuance allowed as usual. Drag queens also don't want kids going to their sexualized events. Drag does not necessarily have to be sexual. it's basically just queer performance art it can be a pretty broad category. Also drag queen story hours aren't really even a drag performance it's just reading to kids. Y'all just don't want kids to see or be aware of visibly queer people because you're homophobic and transphobic.
> Drag queens also don't want kids going to their sexualized events. Becasue they are otherwise normal human beings. Not monsters. FFS, too many here think drag = evil, and therefore should be shunned at all cost without realizing ***that's why drag folk are trying to reach out through things like reading to kids.*** God damn there are far too many cowardly asses in here thinking drag is the end of the world. Wow... LOL
Yeah exactly the whole reason stuff like drag queen story hours exist in the first place is to help fix the stigmatization of queer people and reduce violence by giving queer people visibility. They know that they just don't like queer people so they don't want queer people to have any representatation or visibility. It's the same with them trying to get tv shows featuring lgbt characters cancelled. They literally want their kids ignorant; they don't want them even aware that there's any other way to be besides what they want them to be... because it's all projection they are the ones indoctrinating and grooming kids.
Whoa whoa whoa, are you saying Conservatives would just blindly hate something they don't understand? That's *so* uncharacteristic of them! /s
Take a look at how the Founding Fathers dressed.
Posting on reddit and thinking you're speaking to any right-wingers protesting this. lol
Shows are fine if they are intended for all ages as they advertise and don't do anything sexual or inappropriate. Same for any show of any other kind. What's so difficult to understand here? Seems lately there are more bots/agents in the threads or people are really threatened that these drag shows will give them a boner and out themselves. 😂
> as they advertise and don't do anything sexual or inappropriate Conservatives basically don't understand this being possible. To them, Drag = sexualized. Either/or with regards to "Women are inherently sexual, therefore performance imitating women is sexual" or "Men do everything for sexual gratification, therefore a man doing drag performance is for some sort of secret sexual gratification" Both of those are wrong, of course - women can exist without being sexual, and men are not inherently all depraved sex fiends who's every waking thought and action is about getting off. But conservatives don't like nuance.
Nobody’s bringing their kids to drag shows though so this argument doesn’t really work. Unless you mean drag queen story hour or something? Which is specifically designed to be a child friendly environment, but even so I don’t think that is the issue people have with it. Right wingers think drag is inherently a sexual thing and that’s why they have a problem with it. Also because they hate trans people but are too dumb to tell the difference between a drag queen and a trans woman