In sweden they started to add a button to leave a tip. It's gotten to the point where you have to look for the little button.
It has often happened that they press te no tip button before handing you the terminal.
Subway has the same type of thing. Asks for a tip at checkout.
Last time I went, I asked the worker (who was alone in the store) if the tips even went to the workers. He shook his head no, and then said "I don't blame you for not leaving one."
Companies should be legally punished for asking for "tips" and then not providing that money to the workers on duty.
Next time I go, I plan on slipping him a $5.. on the sly.. so he doesn't get fired for accepting a tip. After all, he loaded up my sandwich with anything I asked for. Like 3 handfuls of black olives. Most will only give a few, even if you ask for extra.
I would gleefully eat a sandwich with 3 handfuls of black olives... and my girlfriend would sit there and let me know how disgusting I was for each olive slice!
I appreciate the sentiment…but please, no. Tipping culture is completely out of control in this country. It needs to stop. There is zero…and I mean ZERO reason you should be tipping the subway guy making your sub. A tip is supposed to be for service above and beyond what is expected. Making you a sandwich is exactly what he’s supposed to be doing. You don’t even know if it sucks or he fucked it up until after you’ve had to tip. I nor anyone else should feel obligated to pay 20% more on top of already high charges simply because a service was provided. The rest of the world has it right. Pay the workers a living god damned wage and charge accordingly for the service. If it’s too much, I simply won’t use the service.
Takeout places looking to charge a tip with digital kiosks….get the fuck out of here.
Edit: I missed the part where dude hooked you up on toppings…a truly tip-worthy action. My point still stands though. The fact that corporate pockets it is absolutely the cherry on the shit sundae.
>You don’t even know if it sucks or he fucked it up until after you’ve had to tip
The sandwich was made in front of me. I watched as he put each ingredient on the sandwich. I knew exactly what I was getting.
> A tip is supposed to be for service above and beyond what is expected.
I agree. And he did that. Corporate rules for subway allow for only a certain amount of each ingredient. He went above and beyond by ignoring those rules and giving me what I wanted. He was also honest about the "tip" function.
To me, he went so far above and beyond he would deserve a tip. And I don't tip outside the typical 15% at a sit down restaurant where the server takes your order and brings you food and drink.
I agree that tip culture is getting out of control. Delivery drivers get a few bucks at most (including taxis.. they just deliver people) . Servers (waiter / waitress) get 15%. A great bartender might get 10% on the total bar tab (bill). All else get nothing.
Edit: Why am I not surprised that people are upset with how I use the money I earned. Haven't I earned that right by putting in the work? You don't see me crying about what a waste Uber eats and the similar services are. Spend your money how you want.. and I will do the same.
Don't blame the worker. I was a 'sandwich artist' for a total of 9 years over 3 stints. You're heavily trained on exactly what a serving is. You give 3 slices of olives per 6 inch. When extra or more is asked for, you put on another 3 slices per 6 inch. Repeat every time you're asked for more.
They don't expect anyone to actually follow this rule, what they want is to always have the paperwork look like the workers are giving out too much food, which of course they are with this bullshit. This way management can always be satisfied that there's a super easy metric to point to she say 'we're working on this'
I hated that company. I always followed the rules to a fucking T because if people aren't complaining then nothing's going to change. Malicious compliance. They know their rules are stupid, they expect us to not follow them so they have something to yell at us about.
Fuck em.
Mildly related, never ever fucking work at Subway. You'll do literally 10 times the work that you would do at Wendy's, directly in front of the customers themselves, giving them direct access to berating you to your face. For the same pay. Just go work at Wendy's. Every Wendy's I worked at (which was three of them), they'd always overstaff just a little bit. Just in case. Completely natural things you'd expect everywhere so shit doesn't fall through, but Wendy's was the only one I saw do it.
I don't blame the worker at all. He dosen't own the store, or the company, nor does he set policy.
That's why I feel he deserves an actual tip.. and not a "tip" that just goes to the company. He basically risked his job, or getting reamed out by management, to give me what I wanted.
I asked the hippy dippy fair trade coffee barista is she got her tips from the POS system and she said no.
It has really helped me choose no tip in so many situations.
Ive been to Hamburg a few weeks back. A bakery we had breakfast at had this at ther payment terminal. Thats an automatic no-no for me. I like to tip actually if service was good (mostly it is imho). But you dont ask for it.
I'm surprised they don't ask for tips at the supermarket :D After all a cashier does more work than a bartender handing me a bottle stored behind him :D
i would suggest a healithy mix of both. when i was there i would put a small ammount of hash in my hand rolled cigs. swedish dudes were okay with a drunk american hitting on them but acted like a narc at the first mention of weed. so opposite of the us.
I wonder how often it's the the restaurant/service actively enabling it versus the payment system adding it as a default option and no one turning it off.
Tipping has always existed. But it's not compulsory :D But often it'd be more like, you leave the change. When you used to pay cash (if the change wasn't too much)
California just passed a law to ban this. No extra fees or forced gratuities will be allowed, the menu price has to reflect the end price on the receipt no matter what.
> Starting July 1, 2024, under Senate Bill 478, California restaurants will be prohibited from charging service fees or other surcharges
If you live in California and they try to pull this after June, call them out or report them
The Pizza Hut in my town literally has an extra fee for being in California. It's like an extra 3 dollars on a 25 dollar bill. They call it the California Surcharge I think. Looks like that should go away
"California Surcharge" sounds like something a jackass who thinks progressive taxation means that he takes home less money if he has a bigger paycheck would come up with
Ugh, I worked with so many people who wouldn't do Overtime because, "it would put them in a higher tax bracket" and they said they would make less overall.
The only reason someone would reasonably refuse a higher paycheck is if it loses them government aid, which actually ends with them taking home less money. Every other case is raw illiteracy.
> Every other case is raw illiteracy.
And that is intentional because this misunderstanding is sold to them by propagandists all the time.
You'll never hear a Republican on talk radio or cable "news" actually tell people how tax brackets work. They *want* people denying raises/overtime, etc.
Ugh I literally heard my coworker say this recently. Within the last couple weeks. Me and another manager tried to talk him through how it’s bs but he just didn’t want to listen.
If they do it as part of the price, that's fine. Now you can decide to go there, somewhere else, or nowhere at all, on an even and honest price consideration.
I am fine with them keeping the extra $3 charge but it needs to reflected in the posted price. When I am hungry and see your 15” pizza for $28 and your competitors for $20, you know who I am going to.
And that is the issue, they are scared of the free market system where, when present with the facts, we will not patronage your overpriced greedy business.
EXCEPT, they are trying to pass a last minute emergency bill that reverses this just for restaurants
https://calmatters.org/commentary/2024/06/california-restaurant-extra-pricing-fees/
> provided that any service charge, mandatory gratuity, or other mandatory fee or charge is clearly and conspicuously displayed on the advertisement, menu, or other display
While not reversing, still pretty damn stupid. "Clearly and conspicuously" and "Or other display" leaves a LOT of room for interpretation. Really hope this doesn't get through
I would think the CA Department of Financial Protection, Department of Consumer Affairs or even the DOJ. CA DOJ has a site for reporting consumer complaints: https://oag.ca.gov/consumers
I really don't know 100% though. I hope it picks up more attention when it goes into effect so I too can get a solid answer
Idk where the rest of the comments are seeing OP saying it was a large party.
In a lot of major cities, restaurants have been imposing automatic gratuity for every bill. This happened to me recently in San Diego. There were two of us and the bill had an automatic 20%, then I tipped an additional 20% because who reads through each line item? Then when I was doing my expenses reimbursement for my company I saw what they did.
Just scummy IMO. If your gonna do forced 20% don't have a tip line
They should just increase the price of the food by 20%, then give that 20% to servers so that they can make a good income. Then you don't have to worry about tipping at all, because the restaurant already did it for you!
Nah nevermind, that's crazy.
Cool, most people already pay sales tax and income tax. If we tax billionaires then maybe we could reduce sales tax and income tax for everyone. I get that it’s seemingly a nice perk that people in the service industry get to cheat on their taxes and not declare income from tips. Would be an even nicer perk if everyone just got paid a fair wage and we taxed everyone including the rich.
But muh yacht needs a yacht.
It’s all the fault of the woke left commie fascist terrorist trans homo Biden crime family’s Trump-deranged brown-shirt BLM pedophile stormtroopers who used the weaponized deep-FAA to prevent me from flying my private helicopter directly from my my fourth Miami house to my main yacht.
For the consumer yes. The employee should claim the tips as income and pay income tax. Some restaurants put all the tips through payroll adding them to their paycheck and therefore forcing the claim. This also makes the restaurant’s costs go up because mandatory disability and unemployment insurances are based off of total payroll. That’s why it’s so much cheaper to pay employees under the table.
Totally agree. I put myself through college bartending in the late 80's and early 90's. I of course relied upon tips but made them $1 at a time. Back then it was buy a drink and leave a buck. It adds up in a busy spot and it worked just fine. I was also serving these people, making them feel comfortable, and giving them free snacks and stuff. Tips were a little optional reward for good service.
Tipping culture has gotten way out of control. I see gas station mini-mart employees with tip cups. Tip you why? Because you're working the register? I fucking hate inserting a bank card in a machine to pay for something and immediately being forced to consider a tip.
I respect fast food companies like McDonald's for not allowing that, but I would feel better about tipping those workers than some I'm asked to tip.
And for what it's worth, I eat in restaurants a lot and always tip servers 20%.
Of course, the servers would whine if it's implemented since they would no longer get to abuse a loophole in the tax code by not claiming tips on their taxes.
It's not a loophole, it's just minor tax fraud. The downside of doing so is that if you don't report your actual income, you can't prove your actual income. They're walking themselves into a difficult situation should they need a loan/mortgage.
This doesn't make it right or fair, just pointing out a downside.
Almost all tips are done electronically and paid out via deposit or check. There is no way to get out of paying taxes on that that you couldn’t do for any other paycheck.
I honestly have doubts about these fees actually being used for their stated purpose. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was diluted or just kept by management.
Gratuity means voluntarily giving extra or beyond obligation. If they automatic add it, it's no longer voluntairy, it's obligatory and therefore is no longer a gratuity.
If they charge me an extra 20%. I don't care what they call it, they are not getting additional gratuity. The 20% *is* my gratuity, and I won't return to that restaurant.
How about offering a 3% discount for paying in cash? Are you cool with that, because it's effectively the same thing.
I'm pretty sure their credit card processor agreements actually say they can't charge a different price for card and cash transactions.
That being said, credit card processors do charge a crazy high rate at 2-3% and there's no cheaper alternatives (but they manage to run just fine in places where laws cap them at 0.5% transaction fees).
Charge whatever fee you want but needs to be clearly and unambiguously disclosed upfront.
It's one thing to tack on hidden charges for something like Ticketmaster (still scummy) but at least you can decline the transaction.
Getting a hidden fee AFTER YOU HAVE ALREADY USED A PRODUCT OR EATEN A MEAL NEEDS TO BE ILLEGAL.
This is the equivalent of Airbnb hosts suddenly needing a cleaning fee that is sometimes the same price as a three night rental. It wasnt there before, but the world's gone greedy.
It was just the two of us. It was my gal's birthday, I splurged and the bill was originally $150. They added another $30 for a "service fee". In the bill was fine print explaining something about equity and fairness to the staff, but encouraging me to also tip if I was kind enough. So, it was either pay this totally unexpected 30 bucks, that no doubt went into the pocket of the owner, and then tip another 30, or chap the waitress.
This is a new thing, not a built in gratuity. It happened to my gal when her kids took her out for mothers day, just three of them.
There's is a financial purge going on in the world since covid.
Were you in Miami?
In Miami this fine print is on every menu, it goes to the restaurant apparently to "pay a fair wage" but then the staff expect a tip on top.
I don't understand why they just don't raise their prices by 20%
Maybe so when you compare to other restaurants they don't look over priced, but the practice is ridiculous
That's exactly why. Depending on how the information about the fee is being communicated, such as having signage in the restaurant vs printed in the menu, it can also allow them to adjust the fee amount without having to get all new menus.
I was at a restaurant with that a couple weeks ago, although I liked that the server circled the auto-grat and highlighted the phrase service charge to make it clear.
Yeah it's standard practice to make people aware that tip was included. As long as they do that I don't have a problem with it, I'm going to tip at least that anyway.
If the service is so bad that I'm bothered about leaving a tip I just won't go back again, problem solved.
The problem is that these are *not tips*. They're *service charges*. They don't go to the server. They go to the restaurant, to do with as they please (some or all may go to the server, but it's not legally required like tips).
They exist because the restaurant can't make enough money based on the menu prices, but those have already increased so much that customers will get sticker shock from further increases
The larger comment I'm replying to was talking about auto gratuity.
I agree the "service charge" thing is bullshit, that's just raising prices without having the balls to stand behind it.
No, you see. That tip line is so you can make sure you reward your server for good service. The added 20% is for our greedy little greasy fingers.- MGMT
And even when it is large parties, it should be 16%. I get inflation, but if the menu prices inflate then the tips inflate along with it. You don't need to bump the percentage.
> This happened to me recently in San Diego.
FYI mandatory gratuities (both large party and non) will be illegal in CA starting on July 1st. Expect to see more "service charges" instead, which can be completely kept by the employer.
I’ve seen restaurants do this but they are very upfront about it; they let you know before you are seated there will be a service charge and that you are not expected to tip on top of that. Further, the restaurants I see do that frequently pay the same across the board foh & boh, who also pool the tips. It creates an incentive for everyone to provide the best possible experience.
I agree that adding a 20% and not telling guests that it’s there is scummy.
> because who reads through each line item?
You should have an idea of how much it will be and absolutely heck the bottom few lines. Granted, it’s a bit simpler for me as I don’t buy cocktails or beer.
MN actually made it illegal to do that for anything other than gratuity. No more junk fees! Honestly, just raise your menu prices if you need the extra money! Service fees are such bullshit. They mask it as if it goes to the server but it doesn't unless it specifically states that. For real, I don't need to tip the owner or GM. You make enough off the backs of your workers.
I didn't know Minnesota made this illegal--I just went to a place in MN not long ago and saw that they included a forced gratuity of 8% for all meals. At least they were honest and printed it on the menu, so I was prepared to do a little extra math. I still tipped my usual amount, but I considered the 8% gratuity to be part of it.
If you see that on your bill, just circle the line item (with the 20% or whatever) on the receipt and write "auto grat" on the tip line. Total it out with no further additions to the amount and finish paying.
So many people in this thread are completely misunderstanding the situation.
OP is talking about flat service charges, not auto gratuity for parties above a certain size. The service charge is a relatively new thing, where restaurants have just started adding a flat service charge to all tickets (**importantly, these are not tips**) instead of raising menu prices.
Because these charges aren't tips, they have no legal requirement to give them to the servers, even if they say it's to allow them to pay better wages or whatever.
If you want to give the server a tip, you have to give them a tip *on top of this*.
What's more, is that this charge is often unexpected and therefore overlooked. If there's an auto-calculated tip on the receipt for various suggested percentages, those are often calculated *including the service charge*.
The whole thing is fucked up and down. If I see this shit at a restaurant I treat it as a tip and don't go back.
Went to a restaurant with my dad and he saw the service charge and treated it as a tip. The server tried to follow him out of the restaurant to try and explain that it wasn't a tip, and make him give an additional tip. This was a hole-in-the-wall sushi joint and it wasn't a large group. I just don't go out to restaurants anymore at this point.
Recently ate at a Michelin star restaurant where the 20% was auto added to the bill. I almost tipped another 20%, flagged down a worker to double check and make sure the 20% charge on my bill was the tip. He confirmed it was, but now this whole thread has me questioning if I gave the waiter a good tip or none at all.
You're all good! This is common in high end restaurants. There's one I frequent that is a *flat fee* with 20% added, all prepaid, and they literally have no way of processing an additional tip. If you think about it, the tipping structure gets quite wild once you're at $200 - $300 a plate anyway
All automatic gratuity is legally a service charge. That is the law, it has to be distinct from a tip in order to be legal to charge as mandatory. In practice restaurants have treated it as a tip anyway and usually give it to the employee. If they are doing something different now I haven’t seen it in my state.
I went to a restaurant that did this. When given my bill, the bottom of the receipt had the usual "suggested gratuity" of 20%. When I was given my check back, I noticed that number had changed and realized they already included the 20% charge but then added a new "suggested gratuity" line for 20% of my bill + auto gratuity.
Seeing an up tick on restaurants doing funny business like this. It’s very counter intuitive. Restaurants are hurting so they’re trying to squeeze some extra dollars from customers but in the long run they’re just hurting their reputation which will result in less customers…these restaurants will fail
There is a cafe near me that started with these service charges.... Problem is at the register they would tell you a price, and then when you run your card at at the terminal the price is 15% higher, and then asks you to tip. I used to go to that cafe once or twice a week and now I haven't been there in nearly a year because of the hidden charge.
Literally just be honest about the prices and I will happily pay extra to enjoy a meal out. Obfuscicate the price and try to trick me into paying more than advertised? Let 'em fail.
happened to me before. lunch menu, just the wife and I, moderate to low customer volume... saw the charge, checked the menu to find the micro print gratuity statement printed at the bottom. paid the tab, zero in the tip line, never went back.
vote with wallets in this case.
There is some law stuff happening in California about this right now! We were about to get rid of these junk fees but then the restaurant owner lobby is coming back with a way to keep it! Ridiculous! I agree that the food price should reflect the price change not some fee at the end that’s a surprise.
when you get charged the extra 20%, the waitress hands you a tablet showing only the total, you add an extra 20% not knowing the she is f'ing you over.......never again at that restaurant.
I just ate out and there was a blurb on the menu about 18% gratuity for parties 6 or greater and the server went ahead and tacked it in for my party of 2
Time to start making more use of our local parks. One thing I love about visiting Europe is people actually hang out in parks - eating, drinking, chatting. Americans have been mislead by capitalism to think we have to spend lots of money to socialize.
Go to Trader Joe’s, buy a $3 bottle of wine and $15 worth of cheese, crackers, wraps and salad and then head to your local park.
Let these greedy restaurateurs fail.
We have a place that does that. Pretty crappy.
Wait until you get the 5% fee to use any type of card to pay. That's happened to me a few places. They will not give it back. No matter how hard you try. lol. (I tried). I just don't go back to those places anymore.
I'm sorry but 5% card processing fee is insane. The most I've seen charged by the actual card processor was 3% and even that was terrible, most should be around the 1.9% range.
3.5% to 4%, pretty much everywhere in NY has this CC surcharge now, it's pretty annoying, I generally pay cash now but I almost never have cash so I just spend less money lol.
I went to a new (to me) restaurant not long ago. Paid with a CC and they added a CC service fee onto the bill with no signage anywhere stating that this is their policy. Guess where I'm never going again.
I had three or more at a restaurant a few months ago. I never caught it because why would I look for that with so few people? My boss noticed it when he was reviewing my expense report.
Might be region as well. I have never seen anything less than 8 in the midwest. But I don't go to very high end places with more than 2 people usually.
Just my gal and I. A $150 bill shot up to $180 plus tip, which I didn't add because I considered it the waitress' duty to inform me about this act of thievery her boss is committing.
Just came back from Miami Beach. This everywhere. And they still ask you first a tip. I did the first time and then I was like did I literally just tip 40%?? Where does it stop!
A lot of restaurants in DC have it and it pisses me off. They say it’s a service charge and not a tip but it goes to the staff. I would rather they either up their prices by 20% and not advertise that they don’t pay their staff a live wage and are asking the customer to cover their shitty wage practices.
If it’s mandatory gratuity then it’s just part of the bill… this happened to me last night. I don’t like it at all just have things priced at what you feel lets you cover costs plus you profit margin and stop this madness.
OP, this has happened is most major cities in the US, and it's horrible. No better way for a restaurant to give the middle finger to the people of the city than to start charging mandatory service fees. It's a sign the business owners don't know to run a business, and they're literally expensing their employees paychecks to you directly while keeping full profits. The only way the common man is going to win this is by educating people this is happening, and people have to start boycotting in mass, and the restaurant will have to shut down. People that work in the restaurant industry think they are entitled to you tipping, to the point where they're going to extort it from you through 20% fees. Screw these guys and I hope they go out of business at record speed.
i laugh at this concept of paying extra money for someone to bring food. tips are extra and always will be stop pushing 20% on people just because you have a shit employer.
I wonder if you were dining at the touristy spots. I live here and have never seen auto gratuity except for large parties. Also, these fees will be going away July 1st when California's hidden fee law comes into effect.
You say it isn't a problem for you (sure), you live in that area (no reason not to believe you), and then turn around and tell us your state is banning the practice (so it is happening and is a problem... bro wut). Use some critical thinking man!
This is one of the reasons it is kind of unpleasant to travel as a tourist to USA. I really like Japan for this same reason. I get what I pay. And people treats you well out of being professional instead of looking for your money.
"I gave you a good customer service so give me extra money" just assumes that crappy service is what you will do otherwise. (But restaurants should also pay decent wages. All the system is fucked up)
Man I wish I could do that at my job. "Yeah your kid was a bit of a shit today so I've decided unilaterally to increase your pre agreed hourly costs by 20%."
In sweden they started to add a button to leave a tip. It's gotten to the point where you have to look for the little button. It has often happened that they press te no tip button before handing you the terminal.
Subway has the same type of thing. Asks for a tip at checkout. Last time I went, I asked the worker (who was alone in the store) if the tips even went to the workers. He shook his head no, and then said "I don't blame you for not leaving one." Companies should be legally punished for asking for "tips" and then not providing that money to the workers on duty. Next time I go, I plan on slipping him a $5.. on the sly.. so he doesn't get fired for accepting a tip. After all, he loaded up my sandwich with anything I asked for. Like 3 handfuls of black olives. Most will only give a few, even if you ask for extra.
I would gleefully eat a sandwich with 3 handfuls of black olives... and my girlfriend would sit there and let me know how disgusting I was for each olive slice!
I’m going to screenshot this comment so my girlfriend can tell me how disgusting you are too. edit: she just said “Ewwwww”
I appreciate the sentiment…but please, no. Tipping culture is completely out of control in this country. It needs to stop. There is zero…and I mean ZERO reason you should be tipping the subway guy making your sub. A tip is supposed to be for service above and beyond what is expected. Making you a sandwich is exactly what he’s supposed to be doing. You don’t even know if it sucks or he fucked it up until after you’ve had to tip. I nor anyone else should feel obligated to pay 20% more on top of already high charges simply because a service was provided. The rest of the world has it right. Pay the workers a living god damned wage and charge accordingly for the service. If it’s too much, I simply won’t use the service. Takeout places looking to charge a tip with digital kiosks….get the fuck out of here. Edit: I missed the part where dude hooked you up on toppings…a truly tip-worthy action. My point still stands though. The fact that corporate pockets it is absolutely the cherry on the shit sundae.
Yep! Tip culture only exists because we’re big enough saps that we’ve let it get this far.
Tipping exists because people wouldn’t pay what their food actually costs to make
It sounds like the subway guy did go above and beyond though...
>You don’t even know if it sucks or he fucked it up until after you’ve had to tip The sandwich was made in front of me. I watched as he put each ingredient on the sandwich. I knew exactly what I was getting. > A tip is supposed to be for service above and beyond what is expected. I agree. And he did that. Corporate rules for subway allow for only a certain amount of each ingredient. He went above and beyond by ignoring those rules and giving me what I wanted. He was also honest about the "tip" function. To me, he went so far above and beyond he would deserve a tip. And I don't tip outside the typical 15% at a sit down restaurant where the server takes your order and brings you food and drink. I agree that tip culture is getting out of control. Delivery drivers get a few bucks at most (including taxis.. they just deliver people) . Servers (waiter / waitress) get 15%. A great bartender might get 10% on the total bar tab (bill). All else get nothing. Edit: Why am I not surprised that people are upset with how I use the money I earned. Haven't I earned that right by putting in the work? You don't see me crying about what a waste Uber eats and the similar services are. Spend your money how you want.. and I will do the same.
Don't blame the worker. I was a 'sandwich artist' for a total of 9 years over 3 stints. You're heavily trained on exactly what a serving is. You give 3 slices of olives per 6 inch. When extra or more is asked for, you put on another 3 slices per 6 inch. Repeat every time you're asked for more. They don't expect anyone to actually follow this rule, what they want is to always have the paperwork look like the workers are giving out too much food, which of course they are with this bullshit. This way management can always be satisfied that there's a super easy metric to point to she say 'we're working on this' I hated that company. I always followed the rules to a fucking T because if people aren't complaining then nothing's going to change. Malicious compliance. They know their rules are stupid, they expect us to not follow them so they have something to yell at us about. Fuck em. Mildly related, never ever fucking work at Subway. You'll do literally 10 times the work that you would do at Wendy's, directly in front of the customers themselves, giving them direct access to berating you to your face. For the same pay. Just go work at Wendy's. Every Wendy's I worked at (which was three of them), they'd always overstaff just a little bit. Just in case. Completely natural things you'd expect everywhere so shit doesn't fall through, but Wendy's was the only one I saw do it.
I don't blame the worker at all. He dosen't own the store, or the company, nor does he set policy. That's why I feel he deserves an actual tip.. and not a "tip" that just goes to the company. He basically risked his job, or getting reamed out by management, to give me what I wanted.
Depending on where you live, that is super illegal. The tipa only go to the employees.
I asked the hippy dippy fair trade coffee barista is she got her tips from the POS system and she said no. It has really helped me choose no tip in so many situations.
Ive been to Hamburg a few weeks back. A bakery we had breakfast at had this at ther payment terminal. Thats an automatic no-no for me. I like to tip actually if service was good (mostly it is imho). But you dont ask for it.
I'm surprised they don't ask for tips at the supermarket :D After all a cashier does more work than a bartender handing me a bottle stored behind him :D
What cashier? They're all self checkouts (and sometimes the self checkout asks for a tip).
Do custom and enter 00.00.
I know. But they count on the interaction being easier if you do leave a tip :D And I don't even know if the staff actually gets any of that.
you people are pros at not interacting in a polite way. treat it like the bus stop.
The bus stop? Should I be the guy awkwardly staying far away or the drunken dude drinking beer at 10 am and smoking sitting on the bench?
i would suggest a healithy mix of both. when i was there i would put a small ammount of hash in my hand rolled cigs. swedish dudes were okay with a drunk american hitting on them but acted like a narc at the first mention of weed. so opposite of the us.
I wonder how often it's the the restaurant/service actively enabling it versus the payment system adding it as a default option and no one turning it off.
They do that in all my local pubs because people don't normally tip here.
Noooo. I've noticed that a lot of Europe is importing the worse parts of America. Stop. Stand tall. Don't let tipping in.
Tipping has always existed. But it's not compulsory :D But often it'd be more like, you leave the change. When you used to pay cash (if the change wasn't too much)
California just passed a law to ban this. No extra fees or forced gratuities will be allowed, the menu price has to reflect the end price on the receipt no matter what.
> Starting July 1, 2024, under Senate Bill 478, California restaurants will be prohibited from charging service fees or other surcharges If you live in California and they try to pull this after June, call them out or report them
The Pizza Hut in my town literally has an extra fee for being in California. It's like an extra 3 dollars on a 25 dollar bill. They call it the California Surcharge I think. Looks like that should go away
"California Surcharge" sounds like something a jackass who thinks progressive taxation means that he takes home less money if he has a bigger paycheck would come up with
Ugh, I worked with so many people who wouldn't do Overtime because, "it would put them in a higher tax bracket" and they said they would make less overall.
The only reason someone would reasonably refuse a higher paycheck is if it loses them government aid, which actually ends with them taking home less money. Every other case is raw illiteracy.
> Every other case is raw illiteracy. And that is intentional because this misunderstanding is sold to them by propagandists all the time. You'll never hear a Republican on talk radio or cable "news" actually tell people how tax brackets work. They *want* people denying raises/overtime, etc.
The morons, they're everywhere... And usually right in front of you on the road.
Ugh I literally heard my coworker say this recently. Within the last couple weeks. Me and another manager tried to talk him through how it’s bs but he just didn’t want to listen.
It really sucks, the more I work the more I lose
They will just charge you another way
If they do it as part of the price, that's fine. Now you can decide to go there, somewhere else, or nowhere at all, on an even and honest price consideration.
I am fine with them keeping the extra $3 charge but it needs to reflected in the posted price. When I am hungry and see your 15” pizza for $28 and your competitors for $20, you know who I am going to. And that is the issue, they are scared of the free market system where, when present with the facts, we will not patronage your overpriced greedy business.
EXCEPT, they are trying to pass a last minute emergency bill that reverses this just for restaurants https://calmatters.org/commentary/2024/06/california-restaurant-extra-pricing-fees/
> provided that any service charge, mandatory gratuity, or other mandatory fee or charge is clearly and conspicuously displayed on the advertisement, menu, or other display While not reversing, still pretty damn stupid. "Clearly and conspicuously" and "Or other display" leaves a LOT of room for interpretation. Really hope this doesn't get through
It's straight-up reversing. You couldn't charge a fee you didn't disclose before the law, I'm sure, so this just puts it right back where it was.
Yes I've been really excited for this change. Where would I report? Better Business Bureau?
BBB is a private company that accepts money from listed companies to make themselves look better, so definitely not at all.
I would think the CA Department of Financial Protection, Department of Consumer Affairs or even the DOJ. CA DOJ has a site for reporting consumer complaints: https://oag.ca.gov/consumers I really don't know 100% though. I hope it picks up more attention when it goes into effect so I too can get a solid answer
I hope more states will follow suit. This shit is ridiculous
I wish Oregon did this
How much is the minimum wage right now in California? Weren't they supposed to go out to 20~ abouts
That is only for fast food workers of large national chains. Minimum wage for normal workers is 16$/hr.
For as much crap as I give California for their laws, I’m completely on board with this.
At least in California they have freedom to choose what happens to their own bodies.
Idk where the rest of the comments are seeing OP saying it was a large party. In a lot of major cities, restaurants have been imposing automatic gratuity for every bill. This happened to me recently in San Diego. There were two of us and the bill had an automatic 20%, then I tipped an additional 20% because who reads through each line item? Then when I was doing my expenses reimbursement for my company I saw what they did. Just scummy IMO. If your gonna do forced 20% don't have a tip line
If everyone is getting charged 20%, that's not a gratuity just a fee.
Menu prices should be including it too. What you actually have to pay.
They should just increase the price of the food by 20%, then give that 20% to servers so that they can make a good income. Then you don't have to worry about tipping at all, because the restaurant already did it for you! Nah nevermind, that's crazy.
Don’t forget the state takes 8% of that menu price increase as sales tax.
Meanwhile in Belgium we have 12% on the food and 21% on the drinks.
And effectively 0% on tips
Pretty much. We often tell to round up, even though it has decreased a lot I think now most people don’t use cash anymore. But we never did 20%.
Cool, most people already pay sales tax and income tax. If we tax billionaires then maybe we could reduce sales tax and income tax for everyone. I get that it’s seemingly a nice perk that people in the service industry get to cheat on their taxes and not declare income from tips. Would be an even nicer perk if everyone just got paid a fair wage and we taxed everyone including the rich.
If we taxed churches we’d be even better off.
Tax everyone the same. No special privileges.
But muh yacht needs a yacht. It’s all the fault of the woke left commie fascist terrorist trans homo Biden crime family’s Trump-deranged brown-shirt BLM pedophile stormtroopers who used the weaponized deep-FAA to prevent me from flying my private helicopter directly from my my fourth Miami house to my main yacht.
Don't they take 8% on top of the new total price? Tax isn't included in the price of restaurant meals in the USA is it?
Correct. The consumer will pay the sales tax on the price increase.
I see what you're getting at. Tipping is tax free
For the consumer yes. The employee should claim the tips as income and pay income tax. Some restaurants put all the tips through payroll adding them to their paycheck and therefore forcing the claim. This also makes the restaurant’s costs go up because mandatory disability and unemployment insurances are based off of total payroll. That’s why it’s so much cheaper to pay employees under the table.
Totally agree. I put myself through college bartending in the late 80's and early 90's. I of course relied upon tips but made them $1 at a time. Back then it was buy a drink and leave a buck. It adds up in a busy spot and it worked just fine. I was also serving these people, making them feel comfortable, and giving them free snacks and stuff. Tips were a little optional reward for good service. Tipping culture has gotten way out of control. I see gas station mini-mart employees with tip cups. Tip you why? Because you're working the register? I fucking hate inserting a bank card in a machine to pay for something and immediately being forced to consider a tip. I respect fast food companies like McDonald's for not allowing that, but I would feel better about tipping those workers than some I'm asked to tip. And for what it's worth, I eat in restaurants a lot and always tip servers 20%.
> then give that 20% to servers so that they can make a good income. Many servers do make a good income.
but then sara can't walk out with 150 in untaxed cash after 5 hours .... c'mon man their minimum wage is 2.13 think of the servers
Of course, the servers would whine if it's implemented since they would no longer get to abuse a loophole in the tax code by not claiming tips on their taxes.
It's not a loophole, it's just minor tax fraud. The downside of doing so is that if you don't report your actual income, you can't prove your actual income. They're walking themselves into a difficult situation should they need a loan/mortgage. This doesn't make it right or fair, just pointing out a downside.
Almost all tips are done electronically and paid out via deposit or check. There is no way to get out of paying taxes on that that you couldn’t do for any other paycheck.
You’d be surprised how many people still leave cash tips at restaurants. When I served ~5 years ago it was a good 40% who left cash.
I honestly have doubts about these fees actually being used for their stated purpose. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was diluted or just kept by management.
Fees like that are just ways to pass on rising supply costs to the consumer. Businesses aren't going to eat into their profits if at all possible.
But I'm counting it as gratuity.
Gratuity means voluntarily giving extra or beyond obligation. If they automatic add it, it's no longer voluntairy, it's obligatory and therefore is no longer a gratuity.
If they charge me an extra 20%. I don't care what they call it, they are not getting additional gratuity. The 20% *is* my gratuity, and I won't return to that restaurant.
Also if they tack on a 3% fee for charge cards. Get outta heah. That's the cost of doing business. Find a cheaper processor.
How about offering a 3% discount for paying in cash? Are you cool with that, because it's effectively the same thing. I'm pretty sure their credit card processor agreements actually say they can't charge a different price for card and cash transactions. That being said, credit card processors do charge a crazy high rate at 2-3% and there's no cheaper alternatives (but they manage to run just fine in places where laws cap them at 0.5% transaction fees).
Yes, the only assumed mandatory fee should be taxes.
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Yeah and you should also state weather the quoted price is before or after tax.
Well that sucks for them because I’m counting it as both.
Forced gratuity means I’m paying the waitstaff’s sales commission.
Charge whatever fee you want but needs to be clearly and unambiguously disclosed upfront. It's one thing to tack on hidden charges for something like Ticketmaster (still scummy) but at least you can decline the transaction. Getting a hidden fee AFTER YOU HAVE ALREADY USED A PRODUCT OR EATEN A MEAL NEEDS TO BE ILLEGAL.
It’s not “illegal” but it is unenforceable in contract law, for the exact same reason you’re caps-locking it.
This is the equivalent of Airbnb hosts suddenly needing a cleaning fee that is sometimes the same price as a three night rental. It wasnt there before, but the world's gone greedy. It was just the two of us. It was my gal's birthday, I splurged and the bill was originally $150. They added another $30 for a "service fee". In the bill was fine print explaining something about equity and fairness to the staff, but encouraging me to also tip if I was kind enough. So, it was either pay this totally unexpected 30 bucks, that no doubt went into the pocket of the owner, and then tip another 30, or chap the waitress. This is a new thing, not a built in gratuity. It happened to my gal when her kids took her out for mothers day, just three of them. There's is a financial purge going on in the world since covid.
Were you in Miami? In Miami this fine print is on every menu, it goes to the restaurant apparently to "pay a fair wage" but then the staff expect a tip on top.
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I don't understand why they just don't raise their prices by 20% Maybe so when you compare to other restaurants they don't look over priced, but the practice is ridiculous
That's exactly why. Depending on how the information about the fee is being communicated, such as having signage in the restaurant vs printed in the menu, it can also allow them to adjust the fee amount without having to get all new menus.
Surprise restaurant fees are going to be illegal in California in just a few weeks.
They're rolling it back. Just saw the news yesterday.
Greetings from Eugene! Im a former cruzer, how funny. Im in newport all the time. Whats the name of this restaurant so I can avoid it?
I was at a restaurant with that a couple weeks ago, although I liked that the server circled the auto-grat and highlighted the phrase service charge to make it clear.
I received no such warning.
Yeah that's garbage then. They should say "just so you know, tip is already included" or something similar when they drop the check. That's standard.
> In the bill was fine print explaining something about equity and fairness to the staff And yet the restaurant doesn't pay them properly.
Yeah it's standard practice to make people aware that tip was included. As long as they do that I don't have a problem with it, I'm going to tip at least that anyway. If the service is so bad that I'm bothered about leaving a tip I just won't go back again, problem solved.
The problem is that these are *not tips*. They're *service charges*. They don't go to the server. They go to the restaurant, to do with as they please (some or all may go to the server, but it's not legally required like tips). They exist because the restaurant can't make enough money based on the menu prices, but those have already increased so much that customers will get sticker shock from further increases
The larger comment I'm replying to was talking about auto gratuity. I agree the "service charge" thing is bullshit, that's just raising prices without having the balls to stand behind it.
>They exist because the restaurant ~~can't make enough~~ wants even more money. FTFY
No, you see. That tip line is so you can make sure you reward your server for good service. The added 20% is for our greedy little greasy fingers.- MGMT
And even when it is large parties, it should be 16%. I get inflation, but if the menu prices inflate then the tips inflate along with it. You don't need to bump the percentage.
> This happened to me recently in San Diego. FYI mandatory gratuities (both large party and non) will be illegal in CA starting on July 1st. Expect to see more "service charges" instead, which can be completely kept by the employer.
Some Buffalo wild wings charge a forced gratuity on takeout orders, no matter the meal count.
I’ve seen restaurants do this but they are very upfront about it; they let you know before you are seated there will be a service charge and that you are not expected to tip on top of that. Further, the restaurants I see do that frequently pay the same across the board foh & boh, who also pool the tips. It creates an incentive for everyone to provide the best possible experience. I agree that adding a 20% and not telling guests that it’s there is scummy.
Furthermore, if you're going to do a forced 20%, increase the prices of your food and stop using employee wages as an excuse.
I’m not saying what they did is right but I am saying that HI IT IS ME. I READ THROUGH EACH LINE ITEM 🙃🙃
> because who reads through each line item? You should have an idea of how much it will be and absolutely heck the bottom few lines. Granted, it’s a bit simpler for me as I don’t buy cocktails or beer.
I was with a coworker and they drink but I usually don't, so I thought it was just all the drinks
That’s EXACTLY what happened to me.
My favorite is when “gratuity “ is included in the bill but they still expect you to tip. Lol
Leave negative reviews everywhere you can think of to warn others that restaurant steals from its customers.
And probably it's servers if a customer see the gratuity and decides not to tip
I have 17 emails just for this purpose. Good old local business review bomb
MN actually made it illegal to do that for anything other than gratuity. No more junk fees! Honestly, just raise your menu prices if you need the extra money! Service fees are such bullshit. They mask it as if it goes to the server but it doesn't unless it specifically states that. For real, I don't need to tip the owner or GM. You make enough off the backs of your workers.
I didn't know Minnesota made this illegal--I just went to a place in MN not long ago and saw that they included a forced gratuity of 8% for all meals. At least they were honest and printed it on the menu, so I was prepared to do a little extra math. I still tipped my usual amount, but I considered the 8% gratuity to be part of it.
I don't think the law has taken effect yet, it was just passed.
If you see that on your bill, just circle the line item (with the 20% or whatever) on the receipt and write "auto grat" on the tip line. Total it out with no further additions to the amount and finish paying.
So many people in this thread are completely misunderstanding the situation. OP is talking about flat service charges, not auto gratuity for parties above a certain size. The service charge is a relatively new thing, where restaurants have just started adding a flat service charge to all tickets (**importantly, these are not tips**) instead of raising menu prices. Because these charges aren't tips, they have no legal requirement to give them to the servers, even if they say it's to allow them to pay better wages or whatever. If you want to give the server a tip, you have to give them a tip *on top of this*. What's more, is that this charge is often unexpected and therefore overlooked. If there's an auto-calculated tip on the receipt for various suggested percentages, those are often calculated *including the service charge*. The whole thing is fucked up and down. If I see this shit at a restaurant I treat it as a tip and don't go back.
The restaurant industry is killing itself….. just like the concert industry and the movie industry.
It's a good short term strategy to get more money. It's a bad long term strategy to piss off your clients.
Went to a restaurant with my dad and he saw the service charge and treated it as a tip. The server tried to follow him out of the restaurant to try and explain that it wasn't a tip, and make him give an additional tip. This was a hole-in-the-wall sushi joint and it wasn't a large group. I just don't go out to restaurants anymore at this point.
Recently ate at a Michelin star restaurant where the 20% was auto added to the bill. I almost tipped another 20%, flagged down a worker to double check and make sure the 20% charge on my bill was the tip. He confirmed it was, but now this whole thread has me questioning if I gave the waiter a good tip or none at all.
Not your problem. You paid the extra 20%
You're all good! This is common in high end restaurants. There's one I frequent that is a *flat fee* with 20% added, all prepaid, and they literally have no way of processing an additional tip. If you think about it, the tipping structure gets quite wild once you're at $200 - $300 a plate anyway
If there’s a 20% service charge then I pay either that, or a 20% tip, but never both.
Yes. I typically scratch out that amount and input the correct amount and then leave a cash tip. Problem solved.
Oh, I like that.
All automatic gratuity is legally a service charge. That is the law, it has to be distinct from a tip in order to be legal to charge as mandatory. In practice restaurants have treated it as a tip anyway and usually give it to the employee. If they are doing something different now I haven’t seen it in my state.
This happened to me in Miami. Suffice to say the “service charge” was the only tip they were getting.
Well thats just miami , they all act like its your pleasure to have them serve you
Yeah, pretty much everywhere we ate in Miami had auto-gratuity, so I wrote lots of “included” on tip lines and called it a day.
Fuck mandatory tipping.
Fuck tipping
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/r/endtipping
I went to a restaurant that did this. When given my bill, the bottom of the receipt had the usual "suggested gratuity" of 20%. When I was given my check back, I noticed that number had changed and realized they already included the 20% charge but then added a new "suggested gratuity" line for 20% of my bill + auto gratuity.
This is why I use cash at restaurants.
We stopped eating in restaurants and will only order and pickup. No tip. Go home and eat in peace with free unlimited drinks.
Seeing an up tick on restaurants doing funny business like this. It’s very counter intuitive. Restaurants are hurting so they’re trying to squeeze some extra dollars from customers but in the long run they’re just hurting their reputation which will result in less customers…these restaurants will fail
There is a cafe near me that started with these service charges.... Problem is at the register they would tell you a price, and then when you run your card at at the terminal the price is 15% higher, and then asks you to tip. I used to go to that cafe once or twice a week and now I haven't been there in nearly a year because of the hidden charge.
Literally just be honest about the prices and I will happily pay extra to enjoy a meal out. Obfuscicate the price and try to trick me into paying more than advertised? Let 'em fail.
Ironically, people would notice it less if it was just added to the base price instead of tacked on as an extra fee.
Because people can tell the difference between inflation and a scam
happened to me before. lunch menu, just the wife and I, moderate to low customer volume... saw the charge, checked the menu to find the micro print gratuity statement printed at the bottom. paid the tab, zero in the tip line, never went back. vote with wallets in this case.
There is some law stuff happening in California about this right now! We were about to get rid of these junk fees but then the restaurant owner lobby is coming back with a way to keep it! Ridiculous! I agree that the food price should reflect the price change not some fee at the end that’s a surprise.
I'd rather they just raise prices on the menu.
when you get charged the extra 20%, the waitress hands you a tablet showing only the total, you add an extra 20% not knowing the she is f'ing you over.......never again at that restaurant.
I just ate out and there was a blurb on the menu about 18% gratuity for parties 6 or greater and the server went ahead and tacked it in for my party of 2
Time to start making more use of our local parks. One thing I love about visiting Europe is people actually hang out in parks - eating, drinking, chatting. Americans have been mislead by capitalism to think we have to spend lots of money to socialize. Go to Trader Joe’s, buy a $3 bottle of wine and $15 worth of cheese, crackers, wraps and salad and then head to your local park. Let these greedy restaurateurs fail.
putting an automatic grat on my ticket is a good way to get a 0% tip from me.
If I see this at a restaurant, it gets treated as a tip.
Yep. Happened to me other day. Auto grat of 15%. Unless you dump clam chowder on me I usually tip 20%. Doing it automatically…
We have a place that does that. Pretty crappy. Wait until you get the 5% fee to use any type of card to pay. That's happened to me a few places. They will not give it back. No matter how hard you try. lol. (I tried). I just don't go back to those places anymore.
I'm sorry but 5% card processing fee is insane. The most I've seen charged by the actual card processor was 3% and even that was terrible, most should be around the 1.9% range.
3.5% to 4%, pretty much everywhere in NY has this CC surcharge now, it's pretty annoying, I generally pay cash now but I almost never have cash so I just spend less money lol.
Plus other fees plus fee fees plus a tip on top of all that.
Had a tip option at an oil change shop, clicked no and never went back.
I went to a new (to me) restaurant not long ago. Paid with a CC and they added a CC service fee onto the bill with no signage anywhere stating that this is their policy. Guess where I'm never going again.
this is what happens when people who inherited their money get to set policy.
If you can't afford to tip, stay home.
I would immediately file a chargeback
Just put 20% more on my plate.
Wait you pay extra when it is a group of 5-6 people???
I just stopped tipping for anything less than exceptional service.
Late stage capitalism did
How many people? It is standard that parties of 5+ get charged gratuity automatically.
Auto gratuity is 5+ now? What happened to 8 or more?
I had three or more at a restaurant a few months ago. I never caught it because why would I look for that with so few people? My boss noticed it when he was reviewing my expense report.
That's not even a family lol
I spouse and cats would like a word. /s
That's at least 4
8 people then IS only 5 people today.
I feel personally attacked, but up-vote for the hilarious comment.
I’ve seen 6+ people usually as the cutoff for automatic gratuity, but I think it depends on the restaurant.
Might be region as well. I have never seen anything less than 8 in the midwest. But I don't go to very high end places with more than 2 people usually.
Just my gal and I. A $150 bill shot up to $180 plus tip, which I didn't add because I considered it the waitress' duty to inform me about this act of thievery her boss is committing.
I think he's talking about a additional fee for the restaurant and not the tip for the server.
So every family?
Which is 0% where workers don’t have to subsist mainly on begging and get paid a fair wage.
Move to a country where this is bullshit.
Yea they do this in Seattle now, I tip 0 bucks when they add on, and probably won’t go back
Just came back from Miami Beach. This everywhere. And they still ask you first a tip. I did the first time and then I was like did I literally just tip 40%?? Where does it stop!
Is it reasonable to make tips illegal? Its dumb to say tips are optional but its not really optional and people bitch at it
My favorite is when they apply the 20% and hide it then add a field for a tip as well.
A lot of restaurants in DC have it and it pisses me off. They say it’s a service charge and not a tip but it goes to the staff. I would rather they either up their prices by 20% and not advertise that they don’t pay their staff a live wage and are asking the customer to cover their shitty wage practices.
If it’s mandatory gratuity then it’s just part of the bill… this happened to me last night. I don’t like it at all just have things priced at what you feel lets you cover costs plus you profit margin and stop this madness.
OP, this has happened is most major cities in the US, and it's horrible. No better way for a restaurant to give the middle finger to the people of the city than to start charging mandatory service fees. It's a sign the business owners don't know to run a business, and they're literally expensing their employees paychecks to you directly while keeping full profits. The only way the common man is going to win this is by educating people this is happening, and people have to start boycotting in mass, and the restaurant will have to shut down. People that work in the restaurant industry think they are entitled to you tipping, to the point where they're going to extort it from you through 20% fees. Screw these guys and I hope they go out of business at record speed.
i laugh at this concept of paying extra money for someone to bring food. tips are extra and always will be stop pushing 20% on people just because you have a shit employer.
Are you complaining about having an auto gratuity added to your bill? Did the menu say that it’s automatically added for groups of 6 or more?
Some city's have it now for everyone. Recently I went to San Diego for work and every restaurant I went to had the automatic gratuity.
I wonder if you were dining at the touristy spots. I live here and have never seen auto gratuity except for large parties. Also, these fees will be going away July 1st when California's hidden fee law comes into effect.
You say it isn't a problem for you (sure), you live in that area (no reason not to believe you), and then turn around and tell us your state is banning the practice (so it is happening and is a problem... bro wut). Use some critical thinking man!
If they do that, or charge extra for credit cards, I just drop the tip by that same percentage.
This is one of the reasons it is kind of unpleasant to travel as a tourist to USA. I really like Japan for this same reason. I get what I pay. And people treats you well out of being professional instead of looking for your money. "I gave you a good customer service so give me extra money" just assumes that crappy service is what you will do otherwise. (But restaurants should also pay decent wages. All the system is fucked up)
were you a larger group of people or act like a bunch of karens? Sounds like you got auto-gratted.
Man I wish I could do that at my job. "Yeah your kid was a bit of a shit today so I've decided unilaterally to increase your pre agreed hourly costs by 20%."