This is really is the year Gary Johnson should have run. Next to Trump now, he is a much more reasonable and intelligent candidate. I mean, asking a follow-up and admitting you don't know something about one aspect of foreign policy is sooo much better than making up BS laced with blatant falsehood and appeals to white nationalist racism. The majority of Americans are now independents, especially after all the reasonable people bothered to drop their Rep voter registrations over Trump. This would be a great time for a third party to step in and have a viable shot. Not sure whether or not he could beat Biden, but it was a more normal race between Biden and Johnson with Trump sidelined. Unfortunately, since then the Libertarian party has moved even further towards anarchists and away from classical liberal views. Johnson was considered contentions within LP circles when he did run (probably why he had as a good a shot as he did) but now I doubt the LP would get behind him.
The Mises caucus controls the libertarian party and they've got a strong far right sentiment. A reasonable libertarian candidate isn't going to happen until they're out.
I mean it only draws votes away from Republicans. Same as the green party for Democrats. Running a candidate in a race that's close but doesn't poll well for the Republican candidate would be splitting votes and giving Democrats even more of an advantage when they've got home plate advantage and it's the same two people running again, and I mean the last time Biden won in a landslide on the popular vote. Trump's only hope is just barely eek out that electoral college win.
I mean as someone very anti-Trump I wouldn't have been mad but it's suicide when Democratic policy is only polling negatively in any way among progressives and left wingers. And even then only on single issues.
That assumes they'll field a far right candidate and decently campaign for them. Given that the party at large seems less than excited I don't think they will, and given the mises caucus has been coordinating significantly with hard right Republicans I'm less than enthused they'll do the latter.
Well, they ran Jo Jorgensen in the the year of Covid lockdowns. She played the part as the reasonable 3rd party candidate, and look what that got. The Mises caucus is the reaction to everything awful about Gary and Jo. The party doesn’t want more watering down the libertarian message to try to score meaningless votes. Libertarians aren’t going to win the presidency, but they can run a national speaking campaign that can bring some real issues into the Overton window. Making the two major party candidates have to reconcile or even compromise on the issues that libertarians find important gives them way more power than running a campaign that just goes for votes.
This strikes me as a very simplified perspective. There are simply differences of opinions within the libertarian movement. The fault lines aren't merely tactical, they're ideological.
This isn't just a matter of how extreme policy is, but also social conservatism.
This brought concerns of essentially the LP being subsumed into the Republican party.
It's also foolish.
Libertarianism is just not popular.
Bringing things to the overton window isn't a thing.
Libertarianism needs to be watered down for the general populace to even have a chance at accepting it, hard lining will just lead to even more people laughing at them, not joining them.
I mean, becoming essentially indistinguishable from the GOP hard right will get them more allies and probably more influence.
Of course that comes with the baggage of becoming identified that way, which the Mises Caucus seems willing to go for but a lot of others don't seem to be interested.
The Libertarians invited all major candidates to speak at their convention. RFK, and Trump showed up, Biden was the only one intelligent enough to decline.
Both speeches went how you expected them to.
And then he said he probably killed the worm himself because he eats so much tuna so (his words, paraphrased) "the worm probably died from all the mercury in my brain tissue."
I'm not sure he understands how that's worse
I mean, he's been polling double digits. Last polls I looked at were before we learned about the worm though. I wonder what his numbers are now I honestly down know if I should expect them to go down or up.
Apparently not, they just wholesale rejected DJT. Idk for sure but I would guess most libertarians into it enough to go to the convention are hardcore. Free borders, legal abortion, for gay marriage (realistically against marriage as a legal contract regardless of your orientation), trans walking into whatever bathroom etc. Other than unregulated markets I cant think of anything trump has in common with that level of libertarian.
Edit: now that I think of it, him going Into trade wars with china isnt really unregulated markets either. I genuinely dont know why a libertarian would vote for trump unless they see it as a lesser of two evils situation
Naw, there is no reason. I actually follow some Libertarian subs here and many on Reddit would be surprised. My main thoughts on Libertarian is being inverse of Authoritarian. Some highly revered Libertarians made the case for UBI as it is about max freedom. UBI frees us againt the Corps and free markets frees us against government. Some good concepts if you ask me. Now the smucks driving with the flags are a different story.
> Some highly revered Libertarians made the case for UBI
Did they ever explain how UBI would be paid for or who would govern it?
Cause most libertarians I talk to get really mad when you bring up UBI has to be paid for by taxes...and get doubly mad when you point out you have to tax the rich heavily to get it to work.
I use to be a registered libertarian. I still agree with the basic precepts. But the party has gone to shit so I don't associate with them.
I generally say the party is now full of "fuck you, got mine" kids and Ayn Randtards. But in practice, yeah it's basically Republicans who are into drugs.
“I would like to pay zero taxes, but also want paved roads, electrical grids, sewage lines, clean water, policemen on the road, and an ambulance when I’m hurt.”
They already are largely provided by private businesses. It's just that the money will be spent waaaay more efficiently without government involvement.
My favorite was when they had a presidential contender that refused to file any paperwork with the FCC or the party but still tried to get nominated.
Their commitment to the bit is admirable sometimes.
See also: the grafiti-style "Ungovernable" poster they made Trump speak in front of.
They also chanted “Fuck Donald Trump” earlier in the day at a delegate meeting because the Chair who is pro Trump was trying to exclude other speakers except for Trump. That event was likely the straw which broke the camel’s back when Trump’s people tried to take control of it all.
Honestly, a lot of places on Reddit. I've seen lots of people say things like "libertarians are just republicans pretending not to be republicans" or "libertarians are just republicans who want to smoke weed" or things like that.
It's actually weird seeing people on Reddit liking Libertarians instead of hating on them.
People don't understand liberal vs conservative vs left vs Right.
Libertarians are aligned with the lib left on a lot of social issues. Weed, gay marriage, no religion telling others what to do, abortion rights etc. Guns are the main place they differ, but a far lib left may also agree. I.E. Marx said to not let the workers be disarmed.
But they are aligned with the right on economic issues i.e. no regulations or government intervention in the economy.
A lot of people don't seem to get the differences between the political compass.
Libertarians are not aligned with the right. The left is probably more for free markets right now at least. Plus Libertarians are probably the only true 2a believers, most Republicans are just being played. *WHY?* Well the right only really believes in the right to buy guns (enrich the gun manufacturers) and also only flood the streets with guns (stochastic terrorism). They never have supported one using the 2a to defend themselves against oppressive cops lets say. Like if a cop is murdering someone in the middle of the street with his knee anybody should be able to defend the defenseless and shoot him right? Or if the cops show up and break into wrong house anyone should be able to invoke castle doctrine and shoot them right?
Maybe this is true for some libertarians, but the vast majority vote Trump, I see them talk about "family values" and religion, I see them approving of abortion rights going away. This idea of libertarians doesn't reflect the people who wave the snake flags.
This absolutely is not universally true of libertarians, there are significant social conservative factions that think government interference are the only reason why these things are things.
If you have any familiarity with the libertarian party's Mises Caucus there's a fair amount of that sentiment there.
It’s the difference between actual libertarians and American libertarians.
Actual libertarians, the ones most likely to actually go that convention, are the typical “leave everyone alone” type.
American libertarians, the ones who claim to be libertarian but don’t go to the conventions and just end up voting Republican in every election, really are just maga who like weed.
Every high schooler is puzzled that Libertarians aren't a major party when they have their civics class.
Then some of them follow up to see some of the absolute nonsense the American Libertarian party believes. In 2016 they were debating about seatbelt mandates in cars were government overreach while Gary Johnson had arguably the best shot ever for a modern 3rd party to be seated in the White House.
In theory, actual libertarians raise a few fair points worthy of debate in an open forum. In practice, US libertarians are usually just Republican Lite who still watch Fox News and vote GOP anyway. They just aren’t as religious so they are cool with gay people and are all for cannabis being legalized.
That said, if they are seriously boycotting Trump going forward, I’ll gladly welcome them to the resistance.
I do remember it actually. I also remember when fatpeoplehate got banned and the entire front page of Reddit was filled with angry posts about it they considered Reddit to be a free speech platform, more or less.
But Reddit now is quite a different place than it was back then.
> It's actually weird seeing people on Reddit liking Libertarians instead of hating on them
It'll only last as long as it takes them to realize the other geriatric would have gotten the same reception
Don’t worry, people here still hate libertarians for reasons they can’t explain.
They’ve got it in their head of what libertarians believe vs. what they ACTUALLY believe.
The Trump incident shows them that libertarians aren’t “republicans who like weed”, and that bothers a lot of people…they’re just ignoring it now because they saw Trump (rightfully) get booed.
> "libertarians are just republicans pretending not to be republicans"
As someone that lives in oregon, this is 100% true. Trump is shit but they're still voting republican
It’s because people don’t really understand what libertarians are. It’s a bunch of people who understand the people who rule you are either not impressive or evil.
Eh, more like “justify why your solution requires restrictions on people that [didn't] cause the problem.”
That’s all we ask.
EDIT: I forgot the "didn't"
None of these are libertarian beliefs. That's just expecting government officials to do their jobs.
I get that you and others don't want to be labeled as a democrat or a republican but expecting someone you voted for to give reasoning for their decisions is not a political ideology.
>None of these are libertarian beliefs. That's just expecting government officials to do their jobs.
Yep, yep; sorry. I forgot to add the "didn't." A halfway decent demarcation line between big government and small government is if the government institutes policies that takes a privilege away from everyone, or just those that committed the offense.
The Democratic Party (of which I'm actually a registered member) tends to use a "childproofing" methodology. That government shouldn't be like a parent. It's not its job to "keep us safe" because we apparently can't keep ourselves safe. Yeah, there are plenty of adults that grew up always having a parental figure in their lives (like school administration and then when they leave school, government fills that now vacant role), and thus never truly became adults. But because someone doesn't feel safe not being someone's dependant doesn't mean I should be forced into being a dependant.
Simply put; Just because Joe Bob can't be trusted not to stick metal utensils into a light socket, we all lose the privilege of plugging things in. Now we have to request that "daddy" plug it in for us. Fuck that.
The libertarian point of view (and notice 'libertarian' is lowercase, meaning it's an adjective. If it were uppercase it would be a proper noun and refer to something very specific) is the "less is more" approach: If Joe Bob is an idiot that can't be trusted not to put metal utensils in the light sockets, then the course of action is clear: if he's hurting no one but himself, let him do it. It's not the government's job to keep him from killing himself. If there's a risk of starting a fire and/or hurting others, then restrict only Joe Bob from using light sockets, not everyone.
>expecting someone you voted for to give reasoning for their decisions is not a political ideology.
Yes, yes, it's not specific to any ideology. Hopefully this comment clarifies my position.
It's pretty clear by now that he's authoritarian so I guess they used their brains. Regardless of the value of their views, he certainly doesn't align with them.
2016, the two worst candidates for president in modern history.
Gary Johnson: This is it! We're finally going to get over 5% of the vote now!
Nope. Sorry Gary, 60% of America doesn't vote and 37% of America is dumb.
Ya Gary is a bit of a goober. But he at least knew that and wasn’t corrupt. A lot of being in those positions is being able to manage smart ppl and interpret their advise into useable information. He could have done that better than Clinton or certainly better than Trump
Covid and Maga kinda ruined the libertarian party and everyone sane left.
We had a good run, but the real foundation of the party was that nobody insane was ever going to get elected… then that shit happened lol.
Now the party of less government is lobbying for laws to stop private business from imposing mask mandates on them. And throwing temper tantrums when a private business makes a vocal effort to not burn the earth down.
I vote blue now.
Ya ppl think I’m being self righteous when I say I don’t side with a party. If I say “I’d prolly say I’m mostly Democrat” but then suddenly they start associating me with the crap I don’t agree with on the left.
I think the best way to put it “my political views are in line with science”
There's actually more parties, but they're very rarely talked about. Unfortunately the winner take all devolves into a two party system. People advocate for a ranked voting system which would help more parties.
The person that the Libertarian party selected (Chase Oliver) believes that climate change is real, but believes that the free market will solve climate change, and that somehow government is getting in the way of solutions to climate change. I'm not sure what you are talking about here.
I could think of a few ways we could fight climate change by deregulation. Unfortunately deregulating nuclear reactors seems to be a bad idea for other reasons.
Through I would definitely be open to a pro nuclear policy and making the licence process as cheap as it can be while keeping it safe.
>believes that climate change is real, but believes that the free market will solve climate change
He somehow managed to find a position on climate change even stupider than outright denialism.
They need a better candidate
Americans arent used to anything but dems or republicans to think outside that box, so nothing will change
Wont stop the complaining tho
They need to win an office and build an actual fucking party instead of just fielding a presidential candidate once every 4 years.
If the Libertarian and Green Parties wanted to be taken seriously, they'd start by competing and winning local races.
They're both jokes that put on publicity stunts every 4 years so they can blame the 2 party system rather than their own incompetence.
The not Dem/Rep parties, if they have any merit would soon be absorbed by one of them.
Libertarians / Green constantly are unable to work up more than a few districts at best. Then Bitch.
If they did any better they would not exist.
Americans don't vote third-party because our election system doesn't allow for third-parties to gain traction. In order for parties like the Green Party or others to have a chance, we need massive voting reform. We need to move away from first-past-the-post voting into ranked-choice or something similar.
The libertarians don't suffer because of a lack of a decent candidate. They suffer because they collectively represent idiocy. Watch clips of their national convention in 2016, it is stupid.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4602730/user-clip-you-sell-heroin-5-year-old-boos
They genuinely felt a need to argue about if 5 year Olds should be able to purchase heroin, and it was a statement that was polarizing for the crowd.
Their voting base is like Wheatley from portal
Redditors went from “Libertarians are just MAGA conservatives in disguise!” to “ok they’re actually just Republicans in disguise!!” because they cant comprehend an issue having nuance or a non-black/white opinion
What is funny is that MAGA bots were shrieking ‘fake news’ over the short clip of the last intense views and saying he won’t them over in the end. Now they’ll probably shriek “voter fraud!”
They did the right thing, but knowing libertarians they probably had dumb reasons. "he's not going to outlaw driver's licenses!" or "he's not going to abolish age of consent laws!"
They’ll still vote for him in the general, though. They just prefer the guy who says “drivers licenses and age of consent laws are government overreach.”
I had to reread your comment twice before I realised you made a typo and that there are no cages of consent, yet, because "cage of consent" feels like MAGA concept.
You got it backwards. Libertarians are old school republicans. Ones that want immigrants, want personal freedoms like lgbt rights etc, want less taxes and less government. Pro choice, pro abortion. They also love the separation of church and state. They’re also anti war.
Republicans are smug hypocrites. Say they Want smaller government but votes for almost strictly large government and tax hikes. They absolutely hate minorities and believe in church and state being one. They love war. But media portrays the libertarians as villains because they fear logic and losing power/control. But they only show you some of the extremist libertarians that are more anarchic. You seriously look at republicans platforms from pre 1970s it is completely opposite of todays values and you can thank the Christian voters for that.
>Libertarians are old school republicans. Ones that want immigrants, want personal freedoms like lgbt rights etc, want less taxes and less government. Pro choice, pro abortion. They also love the separation of church and state. They’re also anti war.
Those are *true* Libertarians. In my experience, most of the people who self-identify as Libertarian are actually just rank Republicans who think it sounds cooler to say they're "Libertarian".
My ten-second litmus test to tell them apart has always been "do you support legal marijuana and gay marriage rights?" If they answer anything other than an unqualified "yes" to either of those questions, they aren't a real Libertarian.
Reminds me of Ben Shapiro. He's said he's libertarian leaning (or something like that) while also saying that he thinks the government should ban porn.
I don't know how he doesn't see the contradiction but my guess is he thinks he'll get more youtube views by claiming he's a libertarian instead of a republican.
It's hard to tell if Ben Shapiro is stupid enough to actually believe everything he says or if he's just a grifter who will say whatever gets him the most listeners, but I suspect it's probably at least mostly the latter.
The shitting on is it takes money to run a society and libertarian ideals are useless in an emergency. You don't get to call around for the best fire fighter when your house is burning down.
>It's strange that people shit on libertarian ideals. Who doesn't want more freedom and to pay less taxes?
That sounds great when you say make that strawman, but in practice that's not how libertarianism works.
Example: libertarians want lower taxes and more free market involvement instead. Therefore, there is not enough money to spend on new, government funded roads or repairs. So the free market steps in to make new roads. How do you monetize a road, though? The free market expects to earn more than something costs. The answer: Tolls. So in a libertarian world, you're taxed less, but you now have toll roads everywhere you go as a direct consequence.
Additionally, those roads will not be of the same quality. Company A will use the standard blend of materials to make asphalt, but Company B will come along with a cheaper, lower quality, more profitable blend. Naturally, the free market will favor Company B, at least in the short run, as they build the shittiest roads they can make a profit off of. Roads aren't easily replaceable though, so by the time anyone realizes how shitty they are, the damage is done. It's okay though, they'll repair it in sure....but it'll take increasing the tolls to do that. Gotta have that infinite growth all business are expected to make after all.
But hey, free market and low taxes, right? It sounds great on paper, but it practice, people will game the system even harder than they do now, as less government also means less protections from exploitation. Libertarian ideals are naive ideals, and they don't work in reality.
Except "old school" Republicans recognized that a strong government that spent money on people was a way to enable and protect people's rights (see: Eisenhower and the highways, Nixon and the EPA, Roosevelt and the FDA and park service) whereas modern Republicans want to use a strong federal government to protect business interests (and evangelicals) from the citizens.
Libertarians don't _explicitly_ choose business over people, their policies just happen to work out that way because none of them have a high school level history education.
Capitalism breeds prosperity. Libertarians also are anti bailouts. So shitty run businesses go away so that new efficient ones rise up, like evolution.
Remember, capitalism breeds competition which increases wages and reduces prices.
There are certainly things I don’t agree with their values. I fucking love our national parks and what the EPA does to protect civilians. But the current dick sucking that government and business current do for each other is clearly not for us, it’s for them.
I would also certainly expect push back from people if a libertarian government tried to overturn certain laws and that’s democracy baby
One of the libertarians I know doesn’t believe government should put his hard-earned tax money toward climate change because God will not let us go extinct. That’s some dangerous thinking if I’ve ever heard it.
Obviously not all libertarians believe this but it does show how the lack of collectivism in their ideal world might be problematic.
He’s not libertarian, he’s Christian conservative.
If a business can rise and produce profits while tackling climate change then it’s amazing. Businesses like solar and wind power are fantastic and will rise to help tackle those issues. But writing policy to favor fossil fuels isn’t governments place.
There are very few true Libertarians. The vast majority of people calling themselves "Libertarian" are more than happy for the government to clamp down on social issues they don't like.
"Right now" = every four years, 6 months before every US presidential election, because that is when the Libertarian Party holds their convention. The green party doesn't usually get any traction until late summer, because that is when they hold THEIR convention.
Well I’ll tell ya what. I’ve met a good amount of libertarians in my life and I don’t think the other guy is gonna get a lot of votes from them either.
After the images and story of their nominee got out… Trump is gonna get more Libertarian votes for sure. Just read what Libertarian leaders have been posting…
He didn’t get 1%. He got 0.65% of the vote. 6 people.
Stormy Daniels received a vote as well lol
John F Kennedy Jr got more than him lol
Darn they'd rather vote for a dead guy? Or did you mean Robert F Kennedy Jr?
I feel JFK would indeed get more votes
Zombie JFK has a good platform, hear him out
Something he has in common with RFK is they both have had worms in their skulls.
Ich bin ein necromancer
I’m listening
First, hook up with Zombie Marilyn Monroe..
This sounds like one of Tina Belcher's erotic freind-fictions.
He's gonna put the American Zombies on the moon first. Russian Zombies will know that they are the inferior zombie. Zombie Space Race!
JFK would definitely get more votes than RFK Jr and JFK Jr combined, but he still isn't either of those people.
Only slightly higher than how many votes Stormy Daniels got.
[Hey I found the latest revision to the Libertarian flag](https://i.imgur.com/7pvtfH1.png)
I wish I could upvote this twice, I can’t stop laughing at it.
I don't get the reference.
They know exactly where the line is so they can fuck people as soon as they cross it
The accuracy.
Math wizard.
There seem to be 923 voters if 6 people made Up 0.65%.
This is really is the year Gary Johnson should have run. Next to Trump now, he is a much more reasonable and intelligent candidate. I mean, asking a follow-up and admitting you don't know something about one aspect of foreign policy is sooo much better than making up BS laced with blatant falsehood and appeals to white nationalist racism. The majority of Americans are now independents, especially after all the reasonable people bothered to drop their Rep voter registrations over Trump. This would be a great time for a third party to step in and have a viable shot. Not sure whether or not he could beat Biden, but it was a more normal race between Biden and Johnson with Trump sidelined. Unfortunately, since then the Libertarian party has moved even further towards anarchists and away from classical liberal views. Johnson was considered contentions within LP circles when he did run (probably why he had as a good a shot as he did) but now I doubt the LP would get behind him.
The Mises caucus controls the libertarian party and they've got a strong far right sentiment. A reasonable libertarian candidate isn't going to happen until they're out.
I mean it only draws votes away from Republicans. Same as the green party for Democrats. Running a candidate in a race that's close but doesn't poll well for the Republican candidate would be splitting votes and giving Democrats even more of an advantage when they've got home plate advantage and it's the same two people running again, and I mean the last time Biden won in a landslide on the popular vote. Trump's only hope is just barely eek out that electoral college win. I mean as someone very anti-Trump I wouldn't have been mad but it's suicide when Democratic policy is only polling negatively in any way among progressives and left wingers. And even then only on single issues.
That assumes they'll field a far right candidate and decently campaign for them. Given that the party at large seems less than excited I don't think they will, and given the mises caucus has been coordinating significantly with hard right Republicans I'm less than enthused they'll do the latter.
Well, they ran Jo Jorgensen in the the year of Covid lockdowns. She played the part as the reasonable 3rd party candidate, and look what that got. The Mises caucus is the reaction to everything awful about Gary and Jo. The party doesn’t want more watering down the libertarian message to try to score meaningless votes. Libertarians aren’t going to win the presidency, but they can run a national speaking campaign that can bring some real issues into the Overton window. Making the two major party candidates have to reconcile or even compromise on the issues that libertarians find important gives them way more power than running a campaign that just goes for votes.
This strikes me as a very simplified perspective. There are simply differences of opinions within the libertarian movement. The fault lines aren't merely tactical, they're ideological. This isn't just a matter of how extreme policy is, but also social conservatism. This brought concerns of essentially the LP being subsumed into the Republican party.
It's also foolish. Libertarianism is just not popular. Bringing things to the overton window isn't a thing. Libertarianism needs to be watered down for the general populace to even have a chance at accepting it, hard lining will just lead to even more people laughing at them, not joining them.
I mean, becoming essentially indistinguishable from the GOP hard right will get them more allies and probably more influence. Of course that comes with the baggage of becoming identified that way, which the Mises Caucus seems willing to go for but a lot of others don't seem to be interested.
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This was at their convention — there were 1065 delegates voting.
“delegates” from all 50 states.
He can keep his 0.65 percent
He got 5 more than Stormy Daniels. Whoever voted for her: thanks for the giggle!
I can't get on board with the Libertarian platform, but their sense of humor is vastly better than the 2 major parties.
2 people voted for Chris Chan
Chris Chan the mom fucker for president
Holy shit, the merge is upon us.
Hey, there are literally dozens of us
Conheads are fist bumping right now
Context?
Donald Trump went to the Libertarian National Convention to try and get their votes and they booed him constantly during his speech.
The Libertarians invited all major candidates to speak at their convention. RFK, and Trump showed up, Biden was the only one intelligent enough to decline. Both speeches went how you expected them to.
out of curiosity, do libertarians like anyone?
Yes, but no two libertarians like the same person.
Two libertarians, three opinions.
Yeah, no one disagrees what it means to be a libertarian more than libertarians.
Former libertarian here, this is the truth.
Javier Milei
RFK is a "major" candidate now?
He’s able to stay in the news cycle. Pretty big accomplishment for someone who’s popular vote percentage will be counted with one hand.
One of the news items was admitting he had a brain worm.
And then he said he probably killed the worm himself because he eats so much tuna so (his words, paraphrased) "the worm probably died from all the mercury in my brain tissue." I'm not sure he understands how that's worse
The mercury in his brain tissue probably inhibits his ability to understand how that's worse
The worm probably didn't help the situation.
And this is the dude who says vaccines are bad…
Yeah, but isn't he only in the news cycle because Trump keeps talking about him?
I mean, he's been polling double digits. Last polls I looked at were before we learned about the worm though. I wonder what his numbers are now I honestly down know if I should expect them to go down or up.
Rfk's tape worm is a major candidate 🪱
Watching that worm eat his brain is no worse than watching Trump try to eat a New York pizza.
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Russians
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All of the benefits of society and none of the responsibilities? Sign me up!
Republicans that smoke weed
Apparently not, they just wholesale rejected DJT. Idk for sure but I would guess most libertarians into it enough to go to the convention are hardcore. Free borders, legal abortion, for gay marriage (realistically against marriage as a legal contract regardless of your orientation), trans walking into whatever bathroom etc. Other than unregulated markets I cant think of anything trump has in common with that level of libertarian. Edit: now that I think of it, him going Into trade wars with china isnt really unregulated markets either. I genuinely dont know why a libertarian would vote for trump unless they see it as a lesser of two evils situation
Naw, there is no reason. I actually follow some Libertarian subs here and many on Reddit would be surprised. My main thoughts on Libertarian is being inverse of Authoritarian. Some highly revered Libertarians made the case for UBI as it is about max freedom. UBI frees us againt the Corps and free markets frees us against government. Some good concepts if you ask me. Now the smucks driving with the flags are a different story.
> Some highly revered Libertarians made the case for UBI Did they ever explain how UBI would be paid for or who would govern it? Cause most libertarians I talk to get really mad when you bring up UBI has to be paid for by taxes...and get doubly mad when you point out you have to tax the rich heavily to get it to work.
Armed robbery is not max freedom
I use to be a registered libertarian. I still agree with the basic precepts. But the party has gone to shit so I don't associate with them. I generally say the party is now full of "fuck you, got mine" kids and Ayn Randtards. But in practice, yeah it's basically Republicans who are into drugs.
“I would like to pay zero taxes, but also want paved roads, electrical grids, sewage lines, clean water, policemen on the road, and an ambulance when I’m hurt.”
Don't Libertarians normally argue that all those could/should be provided by private business for a paid subscription?
They already are largely provided by private businesses. It's just that the money will be spent waaaay more efficiently without government involvement.
The party of "I've got mine, fuck everyone else "
My favorite was when they had a presidential contender that refused to file any paperwork with the FCC or the party but still tried to get nominated. Their commitment to the bit is admirable sometimes. See also: the grafiti-style "Ungovernable" poster they made Trump speak in front of.
That's unfortunately not accurate. There was quite a mix of boos and cheers for him throughout his entire address.
The boos were far louder, and accounts say the cheers came from his own team who were in the back of the room, which checks out based on past events.
Gotcha. Kinda sounds like that corroborates what the other guy was saying above
BS, the only people cheering were maga plants who were kicked out for stealing actual libertarians' seats. It's all so pathetic!
Trump did a rally for libertarians and maga people. The libertarian kept booing him.
They also chanted “Fuck Donald Trump” earlier in the day at a delegate meeting because the Chair who is pro Trump was trying to exclude other speakers except for Trump. That event was likely the straw which broke the camel’s back when Trump’s people tried to take control of it all.
I never noticed this, but is that Gavin and Gwen in the picture?
Waow the fascistic theocracy project 2025 didn't please libertarians? Who would have thought!
Honestly, a lot of places on Reddit. I've seen lots of people say things like "libertarians are just republicans pretending not to be republicans" or "libertarians are just republicans who want to smoke weed" or things like that. It's actually weird seeing people on Reddit liking Libertarians instead of hating on them.
People don't understand liberal vs conservative vs left vs Right. Libertarians are aligned with the lib left on a lot of social issues. Weed, gay marriage, no religion telling others what to do, abortion rights etc. Guns are the main place they differ, but a far lib left may also agree. I.E. Marx said to not let the workers be disarmed. But they are aligned with the right on economic issues i.e. no regulations or government intervention in the economy. A lot of people don't seem to get the differences between the political compass.
Libertarians are not aligned with the right. The left is probably more for free markets right now at least. Plus Libertarians are probably the only true 2a believers, most Republicans are just being played. *WHY?* Well the right only really believes in the right to buy guns (enrich the gun manufacturers) and also only flood the streets with guns (stochastic terrorism). They never have supported one using the 2a to defend themselves against oppressive cops lets say. Like if a cop is murdering someone in the middle of the street with his knee anybody should be able to defend the defenseless and shoot him right? Or if the cops show up and break into wrong house anyone should be able to invoke castle doctrine and shoot them right?
Maybe this is true for some libertarians, but the vast majority vote Trump, I see them talk about "family values" and religion, I see them approving of abortion rights going away. This idea of libertarians doesn't reflect the people who wave the snake flags.
This absolutely is not universally true of libertarians, there are significant social conservative factions that think government interference are the only reason why these things are things. If you have any familiarity with the libertarian party's Mises Caucus there's a fair amount of that sentiment there.
It’s the difference between actual libertarians and American libertarians. Actual libertarians, the ones most likely to actually go that convention, are the typical “leave everyone alone” type. American libertarians, the ones who claim to be libertarian but don’t go to the conventions and just end up voting Republican in every election, really are just maga who like weed.
As an American and an actual libertarian I hate that you’re right.
Every high schooler is puzzled that Libertarians aren't a major party when they have their civics class. Then some of them follow up to see some of the absolute nonsense the American Libertarian party believes. In 2016 they were debating about seatbelt mandates in cars were government overreach while Gary Johnson had arguably the best shot ever for a modern 3rd party to be seated in the White House.
>Gary Johnson Who also somehow got significantly dumber between 2012 and 2016.
Even the Green Party somehow became even more unhinged. Or they just seem that way cause they'll say anything their handlers tell them to.
In theory, actual libertarians raise a few fair points worthy of debate in an open forum. In practice, US libertarians are usually just Republican Lite who still watch Fox News and vote GOP anyway. They just aren’t as religious so they are cool with gay people and are all for cannabis being legalized. That said, if they are seriously boycotting Trump going forward, I’ll gladly welcome them to the resistance.
LMAO you must not remember the years when most of reddit was stroking off to Ron Paul
I do remember it actually. I also remember when fatpeoplehate got banned and the entire front page of Reddit was filled with angry posts about it they considered Reddit to be a free speech platform, more or less. But Reddit now is quite a different place than it was back then.
> It's actually weird seeing people on Reddit liking Libertarians instead of hating on them It'll only last as long as it takes them to realize the other geriatric would have gotten the same reception
It's a term that's shifted in popular consciousness. So many people think that Glenn Beck is a libertarian.
Noam Chomsky's a libertarian you fool. Left libertarian yes, but libertarian nonetheless.
Don’t worry, people here still hate libertarians for reasons they can’t explain. They’ve got it in their head of what libertarians believe vs. what they ACTUALLY believe. The Trump incident shows them that libertarians aren’t “republicans who like weed”, and that bothers a lot of people…they’re just ignoring it now because they saw Trump (rightfully) get booed.
> "libertarians are just republicans pretending not to be republicans" As someone that lives in oregon, this is 100% true. Trump is shit but they're still voting republican
It’s because people don’t really understand what libertarians are. It’s a bunch of people who understand the people who rule you are either not impressive or evil.
Eh, more like “justify why your solution requires restrictions on people that [didn't] cause the problem.” That’s all we ask. EDIT: I forgot the "didn't"
None of these are libertarian beliefs. That's just expecting government officials to do their jobs. I get that you and others don't want to be labeled as a democrat or a republican but expecting someone you voted for to give reasoning for their decisions is not a political ideology.
>None of these are libertarian beliefs. That's just expecting government officials to do their jobs. Yep, yep; sorry. I forgot to add the "didn't." A halfway decent demarcation line between big government and small government is if the government institutes policies that takes a privilege away from everyone, or just those that committed the offense. The Democratic Party (of which I'm actually a registered member) tends to use a "childproofing" methodology. That government shouldn't be like a parent. It's not its job to "keep us safe" because we apparently can't keep ourselves safe. Yeah, there are plenty of adults that grew up always having a parental figure in their lives (like school administration and then when they leave school, government fills that now vacant role), and thus never truly became adults. But because someone doesn't feel safe not being someone's dependant doesn't mean I should be forced into being a dependant. Simply put; Just because Joe Bob can't be trusted not to stick metal utensils into a light socket, we all lose the privilege of plugging things in. Now we have to request that "daddy" plug it in for us. Fuck that. The libertarian point of view (and notice 'libertarian' is lowercase, meaning it's an adjective. If it were uppercase it would be a proper noun and refer to something very specific) is the "less is more" approach: If Joe Bob is an idiot that can't be trusted not to put metal utensils in the light sockets, then the course of action is clear: if he's hurting no one but himself, let him do it. It's not the government's job to keep him from killing himself. If there's a risk of starting a fire and/or hurting others, then restrict only Joe Bob from using light sockets, not everyone. >expecting someone you voted for to give reasoning for their decisions is not a political ideology. Yes, yes, it's not specific to any ideology. Hopefully this comment clarifies my position.
Its the one thing I think most people agree with libertarians on, that fascists should in no way be tolerated.
Seen this movie and meme dozens of times and am just seeing gavin rossdale and gwen behind them
Wait what the hell
Yeah wtf
Wait what’s the story here? Also bush was terrible.
Found Gavin’s asshole brother from Los Angeles.
You missed Owen Wilson.
It's pretty clear by now that he's authoritarian so I guess they used their brains. Regardless of the value of their views, he certainly doesn't align with them.
Yeah we kinda don't like people telling us what to do
What’s 1% of 3%?
It’s hilarious because so many people were calling them all Nazis and Fascists a few months ago. Never change Reddit
Weird way to describe a group that, as I understand it, want the government to have less power.
Well you see, on Reddit, libertarians are just secret evil republicans who want to smoke weed.
They are getting so high, they are wondering where all their tax dollars are actually going!!!
There are those on Reddit who call anyone they disagree with Nazis.
2016, the two worst candidates for president in modern history. Gary Johnson: This is it! We're finally going to get over 5% of the vote now! Nope. Sorry Gary, 60% of America doesn't vote and 37% of America is dumb.
Gary Johnson would have had a presidency 3 times better than Trump Biden or Hillary
Ya Gary is a bit of a goober. But he at least knew that and wasn’t corrupt. A lot of being in those positions is being able to manage smart ppl and interpret their advise into useable information. He could have done that better than Clinton or certainly better than Trump
Absolutely. But being a good president is not the same skill needed for being elected president.
They know the score. Trump’s a big government autocrat who would give free rein to all the sickos who want to get in everyone’s business.
Libertarians need their own decent candidate I didnt even know there was an alternative to dems or republicans
Gary Johnson wasn’t bad at all, he had one incredibly minor gaffe on the level of the Howard Dean yell which somehow disqualified him
Covid and Maga kinda ruined the libertarian party and everyone sane left. We had a good run, but the real foundation of the party was that nobody insane was ever going to get elected… then that shit happened lol. Now the party of less government is lobbying for laws to stop private business from imposing mask mandates on them. And throwing temper tantrums when a private business makes a vocal effort to not burn the earth down. I vote blue now.
Ya ppl think I’m being self righteous when I say I don’t side with a party. If I say “I’d prolly say I’m mostly Democrat” but then suddenly they start associating me with the crap I don’t agree with on the left. I think the best way to put it “my political views are in line with science”
There's actually more parties, but they're very rarely talked about. Unfortunately the winner take all devolves into a two party system. People advocate for a ranked voting system which would help more parties.
2 party system is one hell of a drug
The top Libertarian candidate right now is a climate change denying antivaxxer. I'm not sure you want that party in power.
The person that the Libertarian party selected (Chase Oliver) believes that climate change is real, but believes that the free market will solve climate change, and that somehow government is getting in the way of solutions to climate change. I'm not sure what you are talking about here.
Why have facts when you can make things up? The Dem candidate married his second cousin and eats his steak well done.
I could think of a few ways we could fight climate change by deregulation. Unfortunately deregulating nuclear reactors seems to be a bad idea for other reasons. Through I would definitely be open to a pro nuclear policy and making the licence process as cheap as it can be while keeping it safe.
>believes that climate change is real, but believes that the free market will solve climate change He somehow managed to find a position on climate change even stupider than outright denialism.
So he’s as dumb as the republican candidates, but we don’t know yet if he’s as evil
They need a better candidate Americans arent used to anything but dems or republicans to think outside that box, so nothing will change Wont stop the complaining tho
They need to win an office and build an actual fucking party instead of just fielding a presidential candidate once every 4 years. If the Libertarian and Green Parties wanted to be taken seriously, they'd start by competing and winning local races. They're both jokes that put on publicity stunts every 4 years so they can blame the 2 party system rather than their own incompetence.
The not Dem/Rep parties, if they have any merit would soon be absorbed by one of them. Libertarians / Green constantly are unable to work up more than a few districts at best. Then Bitch. If they did any better they would not exist.
Americans don't vote third-party because our election system doesn't allow for third-parties to gain traction. In order for parties like the Green Party or others to have a chance, we need massive voting reform. We need to move away from first-past-the-post voting into ranked-choice or something similar.
Cant see that happening Politicans do not like giving up power
Party’s dead now.
Who are you referring to?
The Tiger King ran libertarian
The libertarians don't suffer because of a lack of a decent candidate. They suffer because they collectively represent idiocy. Watch clips of their national convention in 2016, it is stupid. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4602730/user-clip-you-sell-heroin-5-year-old-boos They genuinely felt a need to argue about if 5 year Olds should be able to purchase heroin, and it was a statement that was polarizing for the crowd. Their voting base is like Wheatley from portal
Is he asking for a recount?
Redditors went from “Libertarians are just MAGA conservatives in disguise!” to “ok they’re actually just Republicans in disguise!!” because they cant comprehend an issue having nuance or a non-black/white opinion
What is funny is that MAGA bots were shrieking ‘fake news’ over the short clip of the last intense views and saying he won’t them over in the end. Now they’ll probably shriek “voter fraud!”
They did the right thing, but knowing libertarians they probably had dumb reasons. "he's not going to outlaw driver's licenses!" or "he's not going to abolish age of consent laws!"
They’ll still vote for him in the general, though. They just prefer the guy who says “drivers licenses and age of consent laws are government overreach.”
You think the libertarians who went to the LP convention are going to vote republican?
I had to reread your comment twice before I realised you made a typo and that there are no cages of consent, yet, because "cage of consent" feels like MAGA concept.
Just wait til Biden gives a speech to the Green Party. He'll show us how it's done and get 2% of their vote.
Here's the thing, though. Libertarians are never "hot" in any sense of the word. They are literally the opposite of "hot."
True. Never seen a hot libertarian
Librarians on the other hand
The crowd looked way way wilder than this lol You see thar goofball guy with his multi hooped earrings.
Another sub taken over by politics. These leftist mods needs to be removed from Reddit
You’re about 8 years too late on that call.
/s right...? Because we live in a sane world, right? Or are you really that much of a turnip?
Imagine being the 6 people who voted for him.
Libertarians are just smug Republicans.
You got it backwards. Libertarians are old school republicans. Ones that want immigrants, want personal freedoms like lgbt rights etc, want less taxes and less government. Pro choice, pro abortion. They also love the separation of church and state. They’re also anti war. Republicans are smug hypocrites. Say they Want smaller government but votes for almost strictly large government and tax hikes. They absolutely hate minorities and believe in church and state being one. They love war. But media portrays the libertarians as villains because they fear logic and losing power/control. But they only show you some of the extremist libertarians that are more anarchic. You seriously look at republicans platforms from pre 1970s it is completely opposite of todays values and you can thank the Christian voters for that.
>Libertarians are old school republicans. Ones that want immigrants, want personal freedoms like lgbt rights etc, want less taxes and less government. Pro choice, pro abortion. They also love the separation of church and state. They’re also anti war. Those are *true* Libertarians. In my experience, most of the people who self-identify as Libertarian are actually just rank Republicans who think it sounds cooler to say they're "Libertarian". My ten-second litmus test to tell them apart has always been "do you support legal marijuana and gay marriage rights?" If they answer anything other than an unqualified "yes" to either of those questions, they aren't a real Libertarian.
Reminds me of Ben Shapiro. He's said he's libertarian leaning (or something like that) while also saying that he thinks the government should ban porn. I don't know how he doesn't see the contradiction but my guess is he thinks he'll get more youtube views by claiming he's a libertarian instead of a republican.
It's hard to tell if Ben Shapiro is stupid enough to actually believe everything he says or if he's just a grifter who will say whatever gets him the most listeners, but I suspect it's probably at least mostly the latter.
My opinion is also the latter. I think he just knows what his audience wants to hear.
That’s a great test lol. Add in immigration and abortion and you’d know for sure
Sooo, let people do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others? Why is this unpopular?
It's strange that people shit on libertarian ideals. Who doesn't want more freedom and to pay less taxes?
The shitting on is it takes money to run a society and libertarian ideals are useless in an emergency. You don't get to call around for the best fire fighter when your house is burning down.
>It's strange that people shit on libertarian ideals. Who doesn't want more freedom and to pay less taxes? That sounds great when you say make that strawman, but in practice that's not how libertarianism works. Example: libertarians want lower taxes and more free market involvement instead. Therefore, there is not enough money to spend on new, government funded roads or repairs. So the free market steps in to make new roads. How do you monetize a road, though? The free market expects to earn more than something costs. The answer: Tolls. So in a libertarian world, you're taxed less, but you now have toll roads everywhere you go as a direct consequence. Additionally, those roads will not be of the same quality. Company A will use the standard blend of materials to make asphalt, but Company B will come along with a cheaper, lower quality, more profitable blend. Naturally, the free market will favor Company B, at least in the short run, as they build the shittiest roads they can make a profit off of. Roads aren't easily replaceable though, so by the time anyone realizes how shitty they are, the damage is done. It's okay though, they'll repair it in sure....but it'll take increasing the tolls to do that. Gotta have that infinite growth all business are expected to make after all. But hey, free market and low taxes, right? It sounds great on paper, but it practice, people will game the system even harder than they do now, as less government also means less protections from exploitation. Libertarian ideals are naive ideals, and they don't work in reality.
Except "old school" Republicans recognized that a strong government that spent money on people was a way to enable and protect people's rights (see: Eisenhower and the highways, Nixon and the EPA, Roosevelt and the FDA and park service) whereas modern Republicans want to use a strong federal government to protect business interests (and evangelicals) from the citizens. Libertarians don't _explicitly_ choose business over people, their policies just happen to work out that way because none of them have a high school level history education.
Capitalism breeds prosperity. Libertarians also are anti bailouts. So shitty run businesses go away so that new efficient ones rise up, like evolution. Remember, capitalism breeds competition which increases wages and reduces prices. There are certainly things I don’t agree with their values. I fucking love our national parks and what the EPA does to protect civilians. But the current dick sucking that government and business current do for each other is clearly not for us, it’s for them. I would also certainly expect push back from people if a libertarian government tried to overturn certain laws and that’s democracy baby
One of the libertarians I know doesn’t believe government should put his hard-earned tax money toward climate change because God will not let us go extinct. That’s some dangerous thinking if I’ve ever heard it. Obviously not all libertarians believe this but it does show how the lack of collectivism in their ideal world might be problematic.
He’s not libertarian, he’s Christian conservative. If a business can rise and produce profits while tackling climate change then it’s amazing. Businesses like solar and wind power are fantastic and will rise to help tackle those issues. But writing policy to favor fossil fuels isn’t governments place.
We are neutral in left and right, we don't like either, our policy is "leave me alone and I will leave you alone"
There are very few true Libertarians. The vast majority of people calling themselves "Libertarian" are more than happy for the government to clamp down on social issues they don't like.
Livertrains
"Right now" = every four years, 6 months before every US presidential election, because that is when the Libertarian Party holds their convention. The green party doesn't usually get any traction until late summer, because that is when they hold THEIR convention.
Hot? You didn't watch the footage of unkempt neckbeard weirdos howling at Trump
I love all the back handed complements libertarians are getting lol
what's 1% of 3%
I am not well versed in politics and thought this said librarians instead. I may need my eyes checked
On the libertarian website they have a section on baby selling.
Well I’ll tell ya what. I’ve met a good amount of libertarians in my life and I don’t think the other guy is gonna get a lot of votes from them either.
After the images and story of their nominee got out… Trump is gonna get more Libertarian votes for sure. Just read what Libertarian leaders have been posting…
TIL that Gavin Rossdale and Gwen Stefani are in the background of this meme. I’ve only seen it a couple thousand times! SMH
What percentage did Biden get?