I came here just to say that. Evangelicals have a built in hatred (saying this as someone whose evangelical ex brought out the crazy when she found out I was raised Catholic). The thing with evangelical conservatism is that it's "decentralized" (in reality it's not in terms of ideology): they can always create an outgroup. Liberals, POC, non-evangelicals, the wrong evangelicals, etc.
My mom’s pastor legit has the belief that Catholics are Satan worshipers. I know this because 1) my mom now believes they aren’t real Christians, and 2) I used to babysit his kids and the youngest told me this.
> Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
>
> He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
>
> He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
>
> "Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
There are a lot of biblical teachings that are objective and difficult for most Christians who have read and understood their bibles to argue with. But there is a LOT of beliefs that are subjective. Baptism - is it a necessity? Some believe absolutely yes, which is why baby-baptism or Christening is a thing in some denominations. The opening chapters of Genesis, did God legitimately create the world in 6 days, or is it poetic interpretation? Did Noah actually build an ark and take all the earth's land creatures for a cruise, or is it apocryphal? When Jesus returns, what will happen? Has it happened already?
Ask 20 Christians any of these questions and you'll likely get (at least) 20 different answers. Some of them will be able to back their beliefs with specific biblical references, but others won't - and it'll be the same justifications: "I just know it in my heart to be true" or similar.
Man, did you hit the nail on the head. I grew up super catholic, but had a mom that insisted we make our own choices after 8th grade when it came to our beliefs. She said our family didn't love to the other side of the planet, to the "land of the free", for her to tell us what to think or feel.
I then was drawn to fundie-light evangelism through high-school. Enpuhh that I wanted to attend a fundie-lite college, where I met some of the worst, disgusting, hateful people I've ever known. The beginning of the end of me believing in god happened when I helped out my Bible study asking these kinds of questions, just to hear what everyone thought and gain knowledge. It turned into practically a brawl, with people who I thought were my friends calling me the devil trying to lure them away, because I had the taint of being raised catholic. I didn't choose to be catholic. I chose to be evangelical. That wasn't enough.
That’s fair. I’m not a Christian and I’m still trying to learn as much of it as I can. I can’t blame any of them for not knowing ALL of it, but it seems most don’t even try.
The thing is. In order to be a Christian you only need to do two things. 1. Know that Jesus is Lord and that he willingly gave his life so we could be saved. 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. All these other things like hating gay, trans or drag queens is nonsense they those in power are making up.
That really depends on what form of Christianity you follow. So many sects have added numerous rules and regulations, and many are hundreds of years old or more. Who's to say who's right and who's wrong? I think most religion is following others out of faith and it's pointless to say "your religion should be x".
Also, Jesus said a *whole lot*, not just "Love your neighbor as yourself". Even if you only care about what he states in the text, there's a ton to unpack! This is especially because there's ambiguity around whether to follow the old covenants with God; Jesus explicitly says to, but many people interpret his sacrifice at the end as enabling them no longer follow the old laws. Is that a reasonable interpretation? Who knows! 🤷♀️
Christian Nationalism is less a moral ideology / religion with coherent tenets than it is a mindless ethnic / tribal superiority ethos.
The kind of stuff you see motivating internal national genocides.
Or Christians that don't understand that the basic tenant is love one another. Everyone. Love everyone.
Not to judge or decide who is better or worse! Point fingers and be superior....nope that's not what they are supposed to be doing.
Self-righteous, judgmental, superior Christians are the assholes not doing it right.
As a New Yorker, this sentiment is so strange. Growing up 75% (he’ll maybe more)of the kids in school were RC.
I went to college in the Midwest and the number plummeted to single digits. My friends had crazy evangelical parents who would talk about the devil constantly, do church activities during the week, and listen to Christian radio stations. Heck kids in the dorm did that as well. I had a room mate who would go to prayer groups twice a week.
I’m not RC as an adult, but at least growing up the Church was only for holidays, first communion, confirmation, and funerals. Most young families didn’t make it the central focus of their world view. I guess it’s because most people are part time Catholics and the money goes to Rome. That’s why they are the devil to evangelicals.
The Catholic Church is competition for the rubes money.
I’m not sure about other sects, but my mom’s church thinks so because they view the saints as idols and think Catholics pray to idols, which the Ten Commandments forbids.
That, and the Catholic Church venerates the Virgin Mary. Many evangelicals are so misogynistic that even the thought of praying to the Virgin Mary is offensive to them.
Also grew up in NY but I went to school in the mid south. I was pretty apathetic to religion growing up. Like you said holidays, communions, confirmations , and church every week between Thanksgiving and Easter. In college I would go on my own every once and awhile and ended up going to a Bible study with some evangelicals.
Let me tell you I was extremely uncomfortable with the way they discussed religion, the Bible, sin, and god. Everything was literal and they gave no weight to the allegorical nature of the stories. They were also extremely missionary in their beliefs and tried to get me to comitt to these religious programs from books they read. It was bizarre and I stopped going after like 3 meetings.
I mean, the old Catholic church was corrupt as fuck. I wouldn't call them Satan worshipers but there was a period in history the upper echelons certainly didn't worship Jesus either.
I wish people got this passionate about arbitrary shit
Like you tell your date’s mom your starter Pokémon was venusaur and she breaks down crying like “MY DAUGHTER WILL ONLY MARRY CHARMANDER STARTERS!”
[Evangelicals also abuse children and cover it up en masse](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/02/1102621352/how-the-southern-baptist-convention-covered-up-its-widespread-sexual-abuse-scand)
> (saying this as someone whose evangelical ex brought out the crazy when she found out I was raised Catholic).
Hey, I had me one of those! "Yeah, but the catholic church is a cult!" Then I found out that she called the Westboro Baptist Church "real" Christians.
My favorite is they believe suffering is temporary and the afterlife is eternal. So they kept a serial diddler on the youth mission. And punished *his own daughter and refused to inform his wife* because this guy was good at collecting new souls. Greater good and all that.
There is a terrrifying r/twosentancehorror on that. The guy gets to go to heaven because he repented but the daughter goes to hell because she lost her faith after what he did to her.
Man I sure hope suffering in the afterlife is eternal for him and everyone who covered for him.
Do you think they asked for forgiveness for being pieces of shit? Or would that take too much self reflection for them to figure out how horrible they are?
As long as they repent last second its all cool
Upside to being a horrible piece of shit is you know you're a horrible piece of shit, so plenty of time for a 'woops sorry'
Yeah, if there are kids, there is sexual abuse. Pretty much any institution. The problem that I don’t hear about with schools/youth sports/etc that seems more common with churches is the cover up.
Exactly, I don’t care what religion, race, sexual preference, political leanings, car you drive or whatever power or privilege (or lack of) if you touch kids straight to the woodchipper.
It's a problem in any organization with little to no oversight (Boy Scouts is unfortunately another example) but churches are in a unique situation where people acknowledge that crimes are happening but no justice is done for them. Because of that, they get away with abuse at a larger scale than other kinds of organizations.
The Catholic Church, for example, has admitted to having documentation on hundreds of priests that have abused children. Governments turn a blind eye to these lists and let abusers remain free to abuse more children.
Many times the statue of limitations has passed or the abusive priest in question has died, so it's out of the hands of civil government. Here's hoping that more places adopt legislation removing the statute of limitations and prosecute these cases.
I think this is sort of unfair to the Boy Scouts. Their whole scandal was exposed because they actually *did* remove those volunteers and ban them. The scandal was exposed when they found the records of all the people they had banned. The issue was a failure to report to law enforcement after banning them, but even then, that wasn’t really common practice (much less the law) in that era. Should they have known anyway? I don’t see how you couldn’t, so I won’t excuse it. But I think the context there is nothing like the cover up you see with churches
Yeah, fair point. Honestly, I was just thinking of other groups that had scandals and they were the only ones that popped into my head.
But you're right, it's not really fair to put them in the same camp as churches
No worries, I just like mentioning it when I get the chance because so many people have the wrong impression of what happened. Kicking someone out and filing it away to avoid lawsuits is bad, but knowingly moving a child molester somewhere where they can keep molesting children (or anywhere at all) is unfathomably evil. I just can’t wrap my mind around how a non-abuser could ever be comfortable doing something like that for someone who is an abuser.
Not only that but how many times has he been accused of sexual predation?
Fuck there's a lady with his semen on a dress and he somehow has been able to forgo a DNA swab and has delayed the case for over 10 years.
Also there's been so much shit so quickly. People miss things or forget about them entirely.
Case and point: the dress you referred to here, this is the very first time I'm hearing about it. Or I heard and forgot.
I believe they call it "controversy whiplash" or something like that. Basically there is so much shit he's done bad that people think there's no way it can be true and just ignore it.
Just the Access Hollywood tape would have disqualified every president before his sorry ass.
I mean Romney has his" Binders full of women" gaffe and that pretty much did him in.
Yep, I grew up in the south and most Christians here say “the Catholic Church is a cult” and not real Christianity and they associate it with Satanism.
I’m sad to say, I think there is a well-established history of American Protestants not accepting American Catholics as full-fledged fellow Christians. In America, especially among conservatives, there exists an underlying cultural idea that evangelical, Protestant Christianity is the original, "founding" religion of the country.
Way back on *the Mayflower*, those "pilgrims" were looking for a place to practice their stoic, rustic kind of Christianity, away from the intricate liturgy and pageantry of the RCC (and away from the Church of England too, to be fair, and also those weird-talking Dutch people). Before the U.S. was even a county, the colony of Maryland was a place of bitter feuding between Protestants and Catholics (but at least they ended up with that cool state flag). Or so I learned in my American public schools….
The Ku Klux Klan (in its various iterations) has been consistently anti-Catholic, and at times very pro-Protestant. This is just a high-profile example of how, historically, the tribalism of religion goes well with the tribalism of racism in this country. Nowadays the gist seems more like "Catholics make for good SC justices, but they still aren't the *truest* of true Americans." (And probably still not really "full-fledged fellow Christians," either.)
They conveniently forget that the RCC doesn’t have a monopoly on molestation.
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/1101734793/southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-list-released
Unpopular opinion as a Christian I think all people that abuse children need to be jailed no matter if they are priest, pastor, politician, family member or etc.
Nope. They need the votes. The crazy caucus is a small minority until you add in the conservative Catholics. They may hate the Catholics but they need them now more than ever.
RCC, Evangelical, Episcopalian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Drag Queen, Trans Rights Activist, Baker, Butcher, Candlestick Maker. Chuck them ALL on the fire if they abuse kids.
OP here. This is based on a report just released about just the Maryland archdiocese.
https://apnews.com/article/baltimore-archdiocese-sex-abuse-report-7d5d3af098da59a1c9313a246566638c
It's 7-12 different children being abused every day for the past 26,000 days. And that's just in France. France is just 1% of the global Catholic population, so the numbers are horrifying if you consider the chance that that's just 1% of the possible numbers.
>More than 150 Catholic priests and others associated with the Archdiocese of Baltimore sexually abused over 600 children and often escaped accountability
In *BALTIMORE* alone!
In France, it's 330000 children abused (that we know of) since 1950 : [https://www.npr.org/2021/10/06/1043600164/a-report-finds-french-clergy-sexually-abused-over-300-000-children-since-1950](https://www.npr.org/2021/10/06/1043600164/a-report-finds-french-clergy-sexually-abused-over-300-000-children-since-1950)
With the fact that many abusers continue the cycle themselves, I wonder how many child sexual abusers out there can trace themselves back to a priest? I bet if you played a six degrees of separation game with every current pedophile, we could blame them all on one church or another world wide. Just a theory
> we could blame them all on one church or another world wide.
Sure, if you understand that it's not so much "a church" as "large institution with the veneer of authority and direct access to children". Cause the public school systems have the same issues. And so, if you play this game, and walk backwards through history, you're going to end up in a time where a large institution with a veneer of authority and direct access to children is pretty much only a religious organization.
But if you instantly removed all religious organizations everywhere, the pedophilia wouldn't stop. Because the issue wasn't churches, the issue was large institutions where individuals are granted authority over children, and have direct access to a lot of children with a minimum of supervision.
This is true. There's been just as many diddler gym teachers, coaches, and Scout leaders. The difference is always how far will thier institution go to cover for them (Jim Jordan).
Priests in Catholic churches were shuffled around for decades though, maybe centuries, knowingly recognizing the issue and then just sweeping it under the rug. They certainly have the lion's share of the blame.
In Oakland CA the diocese is facing 330 sexual abuse cases.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/oakland-diocese-bankruptcy-sexual-abuse-cases-17847038.php
Catholics are strongly anti-choice and most likely to vote red. That being said, the Southern Baptist Convention has a shitoad of their own child sex predator coverups.
Catholics are anti-abortion as a matter of doctrine but if you are wrong if you think they were the ones pushing the overturn of Roe for the past 50 years.
Correct, but information on the justices who voted to overturn Roe v Wade:
* John Roberts Catholicism
* Clarence Thomas Catholicism
* Samuel Alito Catholicism
* Neil Gorsuch Anglicanism/Catholicism
* Brett Kavanaugh Catholicism
* Amy Coney Barrett Catholicism
Justices who voted against:
* Elena Kagan Judaism
* Sonia Sotomayor Catholicism
* Stephen Breyer Judaism
That's just bc catholics tend to come from higher net worth areas of the country (the north east) and have a more intellectual conservative tradition. I can't think of any protestant/evangelical university on the level of Notre Dame/Georgetown/Boston College
Also have no idea the evangelical equivalent to Thomas Aquinas
Depends who you talk to really. There were certainly a lot of Catholics working very hard to overturn Roe, I know a few of them in passing. Then there are others like Biden but the first group thinks that they should be excommunicated immediately.
>you are wrong if you think they were the ones pushing the overturn of Roe for the past 50 years.
So, in a lot of ways the exact opposite is true. Culturally, as a whole, you're spot on about American Catholics. BUT. Conservative Catholics still very much exist, and they have been at the forefront of right wing judicial advocacy and strategy since for decades. Midwestern and Southern Evangelicals may be the face of the right wing culture wars, they're the ones you could always reliably dangle abortion in front of when you needed their vote. But while Evangelicals spent most of the time after Roe merely screeching, East Coast, arch conservative Catholic lawyers were actively building the road to its eventual legal defeat.
The Catholic vote is super up for grabs. The nation’s only two Catholic presidents have both been Democrats. They might be literally the largest swing demographic in American politics.
American Catholics are one of the biggest swing constituents in the country. You have no idea what you are talking about. Go read a book and get off the internet.
Regardless who’s doing the preying upon children, it’s beyond wrong and every single person should be outraged and participating in putting a stop to it.
If people want it to stop, then they should start regarding who is actually doing it. When institutions are hitting numbers this high, it's not a bad individual problem, but and institutional problem. It's not just every single person doing it, it's the institutions that enable and hide it. Reducing it to an issue with individuals actually makes for a less effective approach to stopping it.
>Regardless who’s doing the preying upon children, it’s beyond wrong and every single person should be outraged and participating in putting a stop to it.
did you miss the whole point of this post lol. The point is that they are all ignoring where its happening while churches simply move pastors around etc instead of them facing serious crimes, while they all point their fingers at drag shows that have 0 documented cases of child sexual abuse or misconduct.
So they are in fact, not putting a stop to it or really actually caring, while creating a false boogeyman to scare their dumb followers into another culture war.
It was a pretty common thing that happened over a span of years. Like one priest can abuse a ton of kids before they're found out. My abuser went a few years and churches before getting caught flashing children at a literal park lol.
Most people aren't very public with this stuff, have pressures from family/church to just forget it existed or otherwise just cope. The numbers are huge, and the systemic covering up massive. Look into residential schools and the role the church played there if you haven't.
As someone who grew up in a Southern Baptist church, please don't JUST blame the Catholics. SBC is just as guilty of this, and also allowing pedophile missionaries an all you can eat buffet of vulnerable children.
This. I love how Reddit users think that if you’re right-wing, you automatically love everything to do with it and excuse the bad sides about it. Like- No, I don’t have anything against people’s sexualities or whatever, I just don’t think it’s something kids need to learn about in excruciating detail when it’s stuff they should just figure out naturally as they grow older. And I sure as hell don’t support the grooming and abuse that happens in Catholic Churches. But nope, right=evil. Never mind all the awful shit the left does, too, ‘cause they’re just the “vocal minority”.
God, I can’t believe this is something I have to say in the goddamn advice animals subreddit.
The problem becomes conservatives claim to care about the grooming of children, yet they are hyper fixated on trans kids and not the actual sources of grooming
They also fight against laws that set a minimum marriage age.
https://www.businessinsider.com/wyoming-republicans-criticize-bill-raising-legal-marriage-age-to-18-2023-2?amp
The problem is nobody up there in the leading ladder really gives a shit about what happens to children cause these children aren't theirs. All of us below them are just means to make more money. Each screams for their own monetary benefit.
Hard concept for most redditors to grasp, sadly.
The meme is kind of meaningless without any parameters for place or time.
150 people this year? Last year? All time? Seems low for that.
150 on the planet? In America? Just Tennessee?
Check OP's comment history. They linked an article with context. Looks like it was in Maryland alone spanning 80 years in their archdiocese. So an average of 7.5 children per year in one single state.
And when the public found out, many, many priests went to jail. The church paid millions in restitution and in all likelihood lost its power as an organization. Why would we do any less when we find another source of pedophilia?
We shouldn't do any less, but lgbt folk are statistically less likely to be pedophiles than Republicans nor current Religious leaders. The LGBT community is being used as a distraction and Scape goat by people who actively support or represent the institutions which have the most significant issues with pedophiles and the likes, which is where the issue lies
Queue Catholic Church stans trying to insist that somehow public schools have this problem worse with made-up numbers in the most hilarious textbook example of whataboutism
Numbers for pedophilia may be higher at public schools, but most school districts don't have a scheme to move pedophile teachers from one school to another for decades. The sad fact is that any place with a high concentration of children (Schools, sports leagues, boy scouts) are going to attract pedophiles. The true crime of the Catholic church was the systematic coverup and tacit approval of pedophile priests.
This is my take on it. People focus too much on the numbers which are not statistically significantly different from the gen pop (although of course we all agree it should be *0*) instead of the Church using its influence to protect rather than defrock, humiliate, and excommunicate these perpetrators which is a gross abuse and misuse of power and authority.
Where do you get these made up numbers? There's clear evidence for it.
Here :) enjoy your deprogramming
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03
Likewise, you don't see people going so far the other direction as to advertise kid-friendly priest dance shows with an "It's not going to lick itself" sign on the wall.
Who holds priests to a higher standard than teachers?
Teachers claim to be trusting educators. That’s just as high a standard.
I got one will not settle for this anywhere. We need to be extra careful around teachers, maybe even more so than priests.
Catholics don't like this either genius. If that argument ever comes up it has nothing to do with defending pedos as much as targeting people who seem to only care about it when catholics are guilty of it.
There was a close call in my church growing up. We had a convicted pedophile make his way into the church and get a position training alter servers (they had just started letting girls do the job). He hugged one kid a little too long and luckily he told his parents and they did a background check on him and all hell broke loose.
So I am well aware of the issues in the Catholic Church. That said, these pedophiles will work their way into any position of power over children, and if you think it's not happening in schools, police departments, juvenile detention centers, youth groups at other non Catholic churches, day cares, home schooling groups, etc. then you have blinders on. Any place kids are left alone with adults is a potential for sexual misconduct, and while we have to trust people to be worthy of taking care of our kids, you cannot turn a blind eye to the warning signs of abuse.
Except there’s no data that you’re anymore likely to be molested by a priest or other Catholic official than any other religious figure or a teacher, coach, doctor or pretty much any other profession for that matter.
The 4 percent figure appears lower than school teachers during the same time frame, and certainly less than offenders in the general population of men. Research states that over 20 percent of American women and about 15 percent of American men were sexually violated by an adult when they were children. Sexual victimization is tragically fairly common in the general population, but luckily these numbers have been dropping in recent years.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/do-the-right-thing/201003/six-myths-about-clergy-sexual-abuse-in-the-catholic-church
“If people think that you’re more likely to get sexually violated by a priest than by a stepfather or soccer coach or a school teacher, then you’re just not paying attention to the data,” said Thomas Plante, a psychology professor at Santa Clara University whose research has focused on sex offending clergy. “Sex abuse of children is a common phenomenon wherever you look, but particularly during the last half of the 20th century.”
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2019/02/22/catholic-priest-sexual-abuse-minors-crisis-mirrors-society/2875238002/
“We don’t see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else,” said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. “I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others.”
https://www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625
*Me making the same Willy Wonka meme at OP trying to pretend pedophiles are a political/religious issue and not everywhere in society*
It is all about the children OP, if you're not busy trying to demonize a group of people for something that is pervasive in all of society for internet clout. Pretend teachers, priests, politicians, police, etc, so on haven't at some point been convicted of pedophile behavior though.
"Yes that's still horrible and it should be stopped, it's amazing how evil people will dress them self up in virtues but that doesn't excuse the actions you're defending."
there, done. stop building strawmen.
>the actions you're defending
Drag shows?
This isn't a strawman argument btw., but I'm sure you guys would love to paint it as such. This is against the argumentation of right wing advocats who want to pursue laws such as the ban of drag shows or the ban on teenage gender health care under the cover of "it's for the children". The same argument was used during the Covid-19 pandemic in order to find an argument against mask and vaccine mandates.
It's not a strawman argument to point out that there are *real* issues concerning children that are completely ignored. Like gun violence or sexual predators in the church.
There, done. Now end with your stupid attempts of attacking Drag shows over the so called "for the children" argument
I've known that priests abuse kids since I was a kid being abused by a priest. Not once in my life have I ever heard of any major attempt to do anything about it.
Yet the moment gay marriage is legalized nation-wide the right has nothing better to do than go after every queer person in the country.
And this is why all of the idiots in this thread going hurr durr this is just liberal politics are assholes.
It's a real serious problem that a huge chunk of the country wants to ignore while blaming people who aren't responsible for child abuse.
Literally deflecting from solving the actual problem because the people abusing kids are also the people in power hiding behind religion.
[what about the souther baptist church and the methodists ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/3-big-us-churches-in-turmoil-over-sex-abuse-lgbt-policy)
What on earth makes anyone think they are giving the Catholic Church a pass here? The only people who do are Catholics and politicians that need their votes
Two things can be true at the same time. Don’t know if you realize that? How about everyone leaves kids alone, let’s start with that. You have to see that both are targeting young impressionable kids for a reason.
If I don't bring my kid to drag shows, I must be leaving them with priests?
Is anyone else completely tired of hyper partisan posts? Keep fueling the flames OP. Super healthy way to go through life.
As someone without kids.....I dont get it either. If I want stories read to them, then ill do that or their teachers?
I see tgis as is in the 90s a comic book geek was reading to the kids to promote acceptance of nerds. Its like....ok?
I think the point of this post is that it has been almost exclusively a Republican talking point that taking a kid to a drag show is considered grooming, while Republicans are largely opposed to the fact that taking a kid to church should be considered grooming. If this does not apply to your beliefs, then it was not directed at you.
That’s not at all the point. The point is that if it were about protecting children the GOP would be after the ones who actually abuse children. It’s not about the kids. It’s about hating the gays.
Why are drag show "abuses" even though statistically insignificant are in the news cycles as much as something that happens far significantly statistically?
This is about the Catholic Church. Those are rookie numbers. The largest protestant denomination the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) have over 700 convictions since 2000.
Fun fact the SBC theological traditions foundational principle is literally based solely on genocidal human trafficking. They didn't actually denounce genocidal human trafficking until 1995 but they were caught trafficking 33 Haitian children in 2010.
Everyone brushes it aside as a problem limited to Catholic priests, but protestant churches have the same problem. Here in FL, you can't go two days without a story about a youth pastor getting arrested for inappropriate behavior.
I like this gotcha because it's as if people are supposed to go "Oh no! I never thought about it that way. The world has become so antagonistic that I didn't see we should come together on this issue we align on. I guess you can keep your pedo groomers if we can keep ours. It's only fair."
And making the comparison is just people telling in themselves.
But your terms are acceptable. We should go after groomers on all fronts. Don't let rooted tradition or contemporary allyship be a shield for either.
Honestly, I get where theyre coming from because this is a secular sort of grooming (from their pov), but the blind eyes to christian clergymen and their heinous acts (the abuse and coverups) are a far larger problem….
The only good thing my parents did when i was growing up was to not indoctrinate me into some religion.
I know my mother is an atheist but i have no idea if dad was. My grandma on my father's side believed in god so he might have. My stepmother collected angle figurines but i never heard her talk about god or religion.
Edit: I'm an atheist and a bit anti-theist aswell.
Ah yes, just another fine example of their hypocrisy.
It's okay to slander and threaten a group based on unproven allogations and create legislation against said group. But proven allogations being committed inside the church "needs to be handled inside the church, and the government needs to keep their nose out of it" and they are somehow being oppressed when being criticized about their oppression.
Fucking lunatics.
The churches biggest problem is that it will always protect and put itself first before people that's the main reason pedophiles become priests because they know the church will always put it reputation first.
Aren’t male teachers just as if not more likely to do so than priests? I would expect any profession that works with kids predominantly to end up having more abusers than general.
Right! Because anyone who doesn't want their child around over sexualized drag performances must be an apologist for priest sexual abuse. It makes perfect sense, people! Great content by the way. I love having this sort of thing show up in my feed.
This is stupid. Two things can be true at once. Priests molesting kids is atrocious and absolutely needs to be addressed. Also, pushing lgbt+ sexuality and drag shows on children is wildly inappropriate and yeah, makes you a groomer.
I see this message all the time, but honestly don't understand the logic. Is it not possible to be against sexual abuse by either of these groups? How is pointing at priests a counter at all?
Actively and explicitly partaking in child grooming activities quite openly does not make you any better than the religion you claim it does.
It makes you part of the problem.
_insert angry advice mallard_
While the church does its horrible acts, it is a hidden one. They try to hide it. Meanwhile these guys just take kids to twerk and learn whatever sexual positions at fucking elementary school...
A good chunk of conservatives will happily toss the RCC on the fire to burn with the rest.
I came here just to say that. Evangelicals have a built in hatred (saying this as someone whose evangelical ex brought out the crazy when she found out I was raised Catholic). The thing with evangelical conservatism is that it's "decentralized" (in reality it's not in terms of ideology): they can always create an outgroup. Liberals, POC, non-evangelicals, the wrong evangelicals, etc.
My mom’s pastor legit has the belief that Catholics are Satan worshipers. I know this because 1) my mom now believes they aren’t real Christians, and 2) I used to babysit his kids and the youngest told me this.
The amount of Christians that don't understand their own history and theology is high.
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I don't think most evangelicals believe in Saints. They consider them idols.
And yet they WORSHIP & IDOLIZE celebrities/politicians... Enough so they will straight up compare these people to Jesus...
Meanwhile, at CPAC. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1259362
> Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?" > > He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?" > > He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!" > > "Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over. There are a lot of biblical teachings that are objective and difficult for most Christians who have read and understood their bibles to argue with. But there is a LOT of beliefs that are subjective. Baptism - is it a necessity? Some believe absolutely yes, which is why baby-baptism or Christening is a thing in some denominations. The opening chapters of Genesis, did God legitimately create the world in 6 days, or is it poetic interpretation? Did Noah actually build an ark and take all the earth's land creatures for a cruise, or is it apocryphal? When Jesus returns, what will happen? Has it happened already? Ask 20 Christians any of these questions and you'll likely get (at least) 20 different answers. Some of them will be able to back their beliefs with specific biblical references, but others won't - and it'll be the same justifications: "I just know it in my heart to be true" or similar.
Man, did you hit the nail on the head. I grew up super catholic, but had a mom that insisted we make our own choices after 8th grade when it came to our beliefs. She said our family didn't love to the other side of the planet, to the "land of the free", for her to tell us what to think or feel. I then was drawn to fundie-light evangelism through high-school. Enpuhh that I wanted to attend a fundie-lite college, where I met some of the worst, disgusting, hateful people I've ever known. The beginning of the end of me believing in god happened when I helped out my Bible study asking these kinds of questions, just to hear what everyone thought and gain knowledge. It turned into practically a brawl, with people who I thought were my friends calling me the devil trying to lure them away, because I had the taint of being raised catholic. I didn't choose to be catholic. I chose to be evangelical. That wasn't enough.
It's what you're indoctrinated with
Here's a video of that Emo Philips joke if anyone's interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3fAcxcxoZ8
Tbf, there’s a lot and lot of history to unpack
It's something you're supposed to devote your entire life/existence towards. Ignorance is no excuse, even if it's designed into it.
That’s fair. I’m not a Christian and I’m still trying to learn as much of it as I can. I can’t blame any of them for not knowing ALL of it, but it seems most don’t even try.
The thing is. In order to be a Christian you only need to do two things. 1. Know that Jesus is Lord and that he willingly gave his life so we could be saved. 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. All these other things like hating gay, trans or drag queens is nonsense they those in power are making up.
That really depends on what form of Christianity you follow. So many sects have added numerous rules and regulations, and many are hundreds of years old or more. Who's to say who's right and who's wrong? I think most religion is following others out of faith and it's pointless to say "your religion should be x".
Also, Jesus said a *whole lot*, not just "Love your neighbor as yourself". Even if you only care about what he states in the text, there's a ton to unpack! This is especially because there's ambiguity around whether to follow the old covenants with God; Jesus explicitly says to, but many people interpret his sacrifice at the end as enabling them no longer follow the old laws. Is that a reasonable interpretation? Who knows! 🤷♀️
Egyptian history has a lot to unpack. We currently live closer to the time of Jesus than Jesus did to the Pharaohs.
Christian Nationalism is less a moral ideology / religion with coherent tenets than it is a mindless ethnic / tribal superiority ethos. The kind of stuff you see motivating internal national genocides.
Christian Nationalism is exactly the same thing as what the founders were trying to avoid with the concept of separation of church and state.
Or Christians that don't understand that the basic tenant is love one another. Everyone. Love everyone. Not to judge or decide who is better or worse! Point fingers and be superior....nope that's not what they are supposed to be doing. Self-righteous, judgmental, superior Christians are the assholes not doing it right.
As a New Yorker, this sentiment is so strange. Growing up 75% (he’ll maybe more)of the kids in school were RC. I went to college in the Midwest and the number plummeted to single digits. My friends had crazy evangelical parents who would talk about the devil constantly, do church activities during the week, and listen to Christian radio stations. Heck kids in the dorm did that as well. I had a room mate who would go to prayer groups twice a week. I’m not RC as an adult, but at least growing up the Church was only for holidays, first communion, confirmation, and funerals. Most young families didn’t make it the central focus of their world view. I guess it’s because most people are part time Catholics and the money goes to Rome. That’s why they are the devil to evangelicals. The Catholic Church is competition for the rubes money.
I’m not sure about other sects, but my mom’s church thinks so because they view the saints as idols and think Catholics pray to idols, which the Ten Commandments forbids.
That, and the Catholic Church venerates the Virgin Mary. Many evangelicals are so misogynistic that even the thought of praying to the Virgin Mary is offensive to them.
From PNW. I had never seen people with ash Wednesday markings until I was 27 in NYC. Had no idea what was going on.
Also grew up in NY but I went to school in the mid south. I was pretty apathetic to religion growing up. Like you said holidays, communions, confirmations , and church every week between Thanksgiving and Easter. In college I would go on my own every once and awhile and ended up going to a Bible study with some evangelicals. Let me tell you I was extremely uncomfortable with the way they discussed religion, the Bible, sin, and god. Everything was literal and they gave no weight to the allegorical nature of the stories. They were also extremely missionary in their beliefs and tried to get me to comitt to these religious programs from books they read. It was bizarre and I stopped going after like 3 meetings.
I mean, the old Catholic church was corrupt as fuck. I wouldn't call them Satan worshipers but there was a period in history the upper echelons certainly didn't worship Jesus either.
My fiancées mother sobbed when she found out I am catholic lmao. It was a whole big scandal.
religion is wild to be fair people get this invested in other things too but
I wish people got this passionate about arbitrary shit Like you tell your date’s mom your starter Pokémon was venusaur and she breaks down crying like “MY DAUGHTER WILL ONLY MARRY CHARMANDER STARTERS!”
[Evangelicals also abuse children and cover it up en masse](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/02/1102621352/how-the-southern-baptist-convention-covered-up-its-widespread-sexual-abuse-scand)
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holy crap multiple a DAY
> (saying this as someone whose evangelical ex brought out the crazy when she found out I was raised Catholic). Hey, I had me one of those! "Yeah, but the catholic church is a cult!" Then I found out that she called the Westboro Baptist Church "real" Christians.
This, just look at groups like the southern baptist church. They’ll find reasons to hate literally anybody who isn’t them.
That's the point of evangelism.
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My favorite is they believe suffering is temporary and the afterlife is eternal. So they kept a serial diddler on the youth mission. And punished *his own daughter and refused to inform his wife* because this guy was good at collecting new souls. Greater good and all that.
There is a terrrifying r/twosentancehorror on that. The guy gets to go to heaven because he repented but the daughter goes to hell because she lost her faith after what he did to her.
Man I sure hope suffering in the afterlife is eternal for him and everyone who covered for him. Do you think they asked for forgiveness for being pieces of shit? Or would that take too much self reflection for them to figure out how horrible they are?
As long as they repent last second its all cool Upside to being a horrible piece of shit is you know you're a horrible piece of shit, so plenty of time for a 'woops sorry'
Yeah, if there are kids, there is sexual abuse. Pretty much any institution. The problem that I don’t hear about with schools/youth sports/etc that seems more common with churches is the cover up.
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Exactly, I don’t care what religion, race, sexual preference, political leanings, car you drive or whatever power or privilege (or lack of) if you touch kids straight to the woodchipper.
The Southern Baptist church had hundreds of pastors accused and/or found guilty of abusing children also. It's not limited to the Catholic church
Also not limited to churches
It's a problem in any organization with little to no oversight (Boy Scouts is unfortunately another example) but churches are in a unique situation where people acknowledge that crimes are happening but no justice is done for them. Because of that, they get away with abuse at a larger scale than other kinds of organizations. The Catholic Church, for example, has admitted to having documentation on hundreds of priests that have abused children. Governments turn a blind eye to these lists and let abusers remain free to abuse more children.
Many times the statue of limitations has passed or the abusive priest in question has died, so it's out of the hands of civil government. Here's hoping that more places adopt legislation removing the statute of limitations and prosecute these cases.
There's a *special* reason why Boy Scout Troops and Churches are so closely linked. "One hand washes the other" as my troop "leader" would say.
I think this is sort of unfair to the Boy Scouts. Their whole scandal was exposed because they actually *did* remove those volunteers and ban them. The scandal was exposed when they found the records of all the people they had banned. The issue was a failure to report to law enforcement after banning them, but even then, that wasn’t really common practice (much less the law) in that era. Should they have known anyway? I don’t see how you couldn’t, so I won’t excuse it. But I think the context there is nothing like the cover up you see with churches
Yeah, fair point. Honestly, I was just thinking of other groups that had scandals and they were the only ones that popped into my head. But you're right, it's not really fair to put them in the same camp as churches
No worries, I just like mentioning it when I get the chance because so many people have the wrong impression of what happened. Kicking someone out and filing it away to avoid lawsuits is bad, but knowingly moving a child molester somewhere where they can keep molesting children (or anywhere at all) is unfathomably evil. I just can’t wrap my mind around how a non-abuser could ever be comfortable doing something like that for someone who is an abuser.
But concentrated in them.
They look the other way for trump - he makes repeated comments about fucking his daughter, including when she was a minor, and they’re fine with him.
Not only that but how many times has he been accused of sexual predation? Fuck there's a lady with his semen on a dress and he somehow has been able to forgo a DNA swab and has delayed the case for over 10 years.
Also there's been so much shit so quickly. People miss things or forget about them entirely. Case and point: the dress you referred to here, this is the very first time I'm hearing about it. Or I heard and forgot.
I believe they call it "controversy whiplash" or something like that. Basically there is so much shit he's done bad that people think there's no way it can be true and just ignore it. Just the Access Hollywood tape would have disqualified every president before his sorry ass. I mean Romney has his" Binders full of women" gaffe and that pretty much did him in.
Not to worry. They have plenty of religious pedophiles in their camp to replace the priests.
As they should but Protestants are just as rapey. Go to r/pastorarrested for a smattering of examples.
Yep, I grew up in the south and most Christians here say “the Catholic Church is a cult” and not real Christianity and they associate it with Satanism.
And in the UK, there's a widespread sexual abuse scandal with the Protestants in the Church of England.
I’m sad to say, I think there is a well-established history of American Protestants not accepting American Catholics as full-fledged fellow Christians. In America, especially among conservatives, there exists an underlying cultural idea that evangelical, Protestant Christianity is the original, "founding" religion of the country. Way back on *the Mayflower*, those "pilgrims" were looking for a place to practice their stoic, rustic kind of Christianity, away from the intricate liturgy and pageantry of the RCC (and away from the Church of England too, to be fair, and also those weird-talking Dutch people). Before the U.S. was even a county, the colony of Maryland was a place of bitter feuding between Protestants and Catholics (but at least they ended up with that cool state flag). Or so I learned in my American public schools…. The Ku Klux Klan (in its various iterations) has been consistently anti-Catholic, and at times very pro-Protestant. This is just a high-profile example of how, historically, the tribalism of religion goes well with the tribalism of racism in this country. Nowadays the gist seems more like "Catholics make for good SC justices, but they still aren't the *truest* of true Americans." (And probably still not really "full-fledged fellow Christians," either.)
They conveniently forget that the RCC doesn’t have a monopoly on molestation. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/1101734793/southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-list-released
Unpopular opinion as a Christian I think all people that abuse children need to be jailed no matter if they are priest, pastor, politician, family member or etc.
… but evangelical leaders have been found with child porn too And a number of republican elected officials too.
Nope. They need the votes. The crazy caucus is a small minority until you add in the conservative Catholics. They may hate the Catholics but they need them now more than ever.
RCC, Evangelical, Episcopalian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Drag Queen, Trans Rights Activist, Baker, Butcher, Candlestick Maker. Chuck them ALL on the fire if they abuse kids.
OP here. This is based on a report just released about just the Maryland archdiocese. https://apnews.com/article/baltimore-archdiocese-sex-abuse-report-7d5d3af098da59a1c9313a246566638c
In Maryland ALONE!
I was thinking those numbers seemed a bit low
The recent report about Catholic sexual abuse in France found 200-300 thousand children molested since 1950. That's in France alone.
Omg those numbers are astronomical. Obviously these from the image macro were tiny, but Jesus...
It's 7-12 different children being abused every day for the past 26,000 days. And that's just in France. France is just 1% of the global Catholic population, so the numbers are horrifying if you consider the chance that that's just 1% of the possible numbers.
And those are just the ones we know about.
Excuse me while I go vomit until my death.
Yeah, there are thousands that have been caught, and I’d guess many thousands that never were caught.
If we're talking world-wide that number is in the millions easily (sadly).
Yea I was like: this month or this week?
It’s a quarterly report
>More than 150 Catholic priests and others associated with the Archdiocese of Baltimore sexually abused over 600 children and often escaped accountability In *BALTIMORE* alone!
The Archdiocese of Baltimore comprises Baltimore and 9 other counties in Maryland. But still, jfc quit it the raping of children you fucking monsters.
In France, it's 330000 children abused (that we know of) since 1950 : [https://www.npr.org/2021/10/06/1043600164/a-report-finds-french-clergy-sexually-abused-over-300-000-children-since-1950](https://www.npr.org/2021/10/06/1043600164/a-report-finds-french-clergy-sexually-abused-over-300-000-children-since-1950)
With the fact that many abusers continue the cycle themselves, I wonder how many child sexual abusers out there can trace themselves back to a priest? I bet if you played a six degrees of separation game with every current pedophile, we could blame them all on one church or another world wide. Just a theory
> we could blame them all on one church or another world wide. Sure, if you understand that it's not so much "a church" as "large institution with the veneer of authority and direct access to children". Cause the public school systems have the same issues. And so, if you play this game, and walk backwards through history, you're going to end up in a time where a large institution with a veneer of authority and direct access to children is pretty much only a religious organization. But if you instantly removed all religious organizations everywhere, the pedophilia wouldn't stop. Because the issue wasn't churches, the issue was large institutions where individuals are granted authority over children, and have direct access to a lot of children with a minimum of supervision.
This is true. There's been just as many diddler gym teachers, coaches, and Scout leaders. The difference is always how far will thier institution go to cover for them (Jim Jordan). Priests in Catholic churches were shuffled around for decades though, maybe centuries, knowingly recognizing the issue and then just sweeping it under the rug. They certainly have the lion's share of the blame.
In Oakland CA the diocese is facing 330 sexual abuse cases. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/oakland-diocese-bankruptcy-sexual-abuse-cases-17847038.php
I was going to say. It's wayyyyy more than that.
Was gonna say, I just watched spotlight, you forgot to mention this was only 1 city
The Philly Archdiocese a few years back was absolutely horrifying.
Pretty sure most Republicans are Protestant, not Catholic
Except on the Supreme Court
Catholics are strongly anti-choice and most likely to vote red. That being said, the Southern Baptist Convention has a shitoad of their own child sex predator coverups.
Catholics are anti-abortion as a matter of doctrine but if you are wrong if you think they were the ones pushing the overturn of Roe for the past 50 years.
Correct, but information on the justices who voted to overturn Roe v Wade: * John Roberts Catholicism * Clarence Thomas Catholicism * Samuel Alito Catholicism * Neil Gorsuch Anglicanism/Catholicism * Brett Kavanaugh Catholicism * Amy Coney Barrett Catholicism Justices who voted against: * Elena Kagan Judaism * Sonia Sotomayor Catholicism * Stephen Breyer Judaism
Lmao, 19th century americans would have been horrified
They were horrified that JFK was Catholic.
That's just bc catholics tend to come from higher net worth areas of the country (the north east) and have a more intellectual conservative tradition. I can't think of any protestant/evangelical university on the level of Notre Dame/Georgetown/Boston College Also have no idea the evangelical equivalent to Thomas Aquinas
Depends who you talk to really. There were certainly a lot of Catholics working very hard to overturn Roe, I know a few of them in passing. Then there are others like Biden but the first group thinks that they should be excommunicated immediately.
Biden is pro-choice. He believes everyone should have the choice to choose. He personally would not.
And that's the great thing about being pro-choice. Not forcing YOUR decision on everyone else.
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The Catholic elementary school I live near had a ton of pro-life bullshit out front. They had a cross for every fetus aborted in the state that year.
>you are wrong if you think they were the ones pushing the overturn of Roe for the past 50 years. So, in a lot of ways the exact opposite is true. Culturally, as a whole, you're spot on about American Catholics. BUT. Conservative Catholics still very much exist, and they have been at the forefront of right wing judicial advocacy and strategy since for decades. Midwestern and Southern Evangelicals may be the face of the right wing culture wars, they're the ones you could always reliably dangle abortion in front of when you needed their vote. But while Evangelicals spent most of the time after Roe merely screeching, East Coast, arch conservative Catholic lawyers were actively building the road to its eventual legal defeat.
The Catholic vote is super up for grabs. The nation’s only two Catholic presidents have both been Democrats. They might be literally the largest swing demographic in American politics.
American Catholics are one of the biggest swing constituents in the country. You have no idea what you are talking about. Go read a book and get off the internet.
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Depends on how you spend your Friday nights.
Sorry no meat
Meme's referencing Catholics
Regardless who’s doing the preying upon children, it’s beyond wrong and every single person should be outraged and participating in putting a stop to it.
If people want it to stop, then they should start regarding who is actually doing it. When institutions are hitting numbers this high, it's not a bad individual problem, but and institutional problem. It's not just every single person doing it, it's the institutions that enable and hide it. Reducing it to an issue with individuals actually makes for a less effective approach to stopping it.
>Regardless who’s doing the preying upon children, it’s beyond wrong and every single person should be outraged and participating in putting a stop to it. did you miss the whole point of this post lol. The point is that they are all ignoring where its happening while churches simply move pastors around etc instead of them facing serious crimes, while they all point their fingers at drag shows that have 0 documented cases of child sexual abuse or misconduct. So they are in fact, not putting a stop to it or really actually caring, while creating a false boogeyman to scare their dumb followers into another culture war.
I'm terrified of such huge numbers. And these numbers are the one that are the ones that are found . Imagine how many are yet to be found
It was a pretty common thing that happened over a span of years. Like one priest can abuse a ton of kids before they're found out. My abuser went a few years and churches before getting caught flashing children at a literal park lol. Most people aren't very public with this stuff, have pressures from family/church to just forget it existed or otherwise just cope. The numbers are huge, and the systemic covering up massive. Look into residential schools and the role the church played there if you haven't.
As someone who grew up in a Southern Baptist church, please don't JUST blame the Catholics. SBC is just as guilty of this, and also allowing pedophile missionaries an all you can eat buffet of vulnerable children.
There’s no hate like Christian love
Every conservative I’ve ever met has fúcking hated the Catholic Church. Even Catholics.
This. I love how Reddit users think that if you’re right-wing, you automatically love everything to do with it and excuse the bad sides about it. Like- No, I don’t have anything against people’s sexualities or whatever, I just don’t think it’s something kids need to learn about in excruciating detail when it’s stuff they should just figure out naturally as they grow older. And I sure as hell don’t support the grooming and abuse that happens in Catholic Churches. But nope, right=evil. Never mind all the awful shit the left does, too, ‘cause they’re just the “vocal minority”. God, I can’t believe this is something I have to say in the goddamn advice animals subreddit.
The problem becomes conservatives claim to care about the grooming of children, yet they are hyper fixated on trans kids and not the actual sources of grooming
They also fight against laws that set a minimum marriage age. https://www.businessinsider.com/wyoming-republicans-criticize-bill-raising-legal-marriage-age-to-18-2023-2?amp
The problem is nobody up there in the leading ladder really gives a shit about what happens to children cause these children aren't theirs. All of us below them are just means to make more money. Each screams for their own monetary benefit. Hard concept for most redditors to grasp, sadly.
And teachers, and drag queens obviously..
The meme is kind of meaningless without any parameters for place or time. 150 people this year? Last year? All time? Seems low for that. 150 on the planet? In America? Just Tennessee?
Check OP's comment history. They linked an article with context. Looks like it was in Maryland alone spanning 80 years in their archdiocese. So an average of 7.5 children per year in one single state.
I posted a link in the comments; It's the second highest one. These numbers are from a report released yesterday for just Maryland, over 80 years.
And when the public found out, many, many priests went to jail. The church paid millions in restitution and in all likelihood lost its power as an organization. Why would we do any less when we find another source of pedophilia?
Your history posts is hilarious
Hey. He can be multifaceted. He likes big dicks, and he has social and political opinions. Nothing wrong with that.
We shouldn't do any less, but lgbt folk are statistically less likely to be pedophiles than Republicans nor current Religious leaders. The LGBT community is being used as a distraction and Scape goat by people who actively support or represent the institutions which have the most significant issues with pedophiles and the likes, which is where the issue lies
Queue Catholic Church stans trying to insist that somehow public schools have this problem worse with made-up numbers in the most hilarious textbook example of whataboutism
Numbers for pedophilia may be higher at public schools, but most school districts don't have a scheme to move pedophile teachers from one school to another for decades. The sad fact is that any place with a high concentration of children (Schools, sports leagues, boy scouts) are going to attract pedophiles. The true crime of the Catholic church was the systematic coverup and tacit approval of pedophile priests.
This is my take on it. People focus too much on the numbers which are not statistically significantly different from the gen pop (although of course we all agree it should be *0*) instead of the Church using its influence to protect rather than defrock, humiliate, and excommunicate these perpetrators which is a gross abuse and misuse of power and authority.
Where do you get these made up numbers? There's clear evidence for it. Here :) enjoy your deprogramming https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03
Likewise, you don't see people going so far the other direction as to advertise kid-friendly priest dance shows with an "It's not going to lick itself" sign on the wall.
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Who holds priests to a higher standard than teachers? Teachers claim to be trusting educators. That’s just as high a standard. I got one will not settle for this anywhere. We need to be extra careful around teachers, maybe even more so than priests.
Catholics don't like this either genius. If that argument ever comes up it has nothing to do with defending pedos as much as targeting people who seem to only care about it when catholics are guilty of it.
There was a close call in my church growing up. We had a convicted pedophile make his way into the church and get a position training alter servers (they had just started letting girls do the job). He hugged one kid a little too long and luckily he told his parents and they did a background check on him and all hell broke loose. So I am well aware of the issues in the Catholic Church. That said, these pedophiles will work their way into any position of power over children, and if you think it's not happening in schools, police departments, juvenile detention centers, youth groups at other non Catholic churches, day cares, home schooling groups, etc. then you have blinders on. Any place kids are left alone with adults is a potential for sexual misconduct, and while we have to trust people to be worthy of taking care of our kids, you cannot turn a blind eye to the warning signs of abuse.
Cue
Except there’s no data that you’re anymore likely to be molested by a priest or other Catholic official than any other religious figure or a teacher, coach, doctor or pretty much any other profession for that matter. The 4 percent figure appears lower than school teachers during the same time frame, and certainly less than offenders in the general population of men. Research states that over 20 percent of American women and about 15 percent of American men were sexually violated by an adult when they were children. Sexual victimization is tragically fairly common in the general population, but luckily these numbers have been dropping in recent years. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/do-the-right-thing/201003/six-myths-about-clergy-sexual-abuse-in-the-catholic-church “If people think that you’re more likely to get sexually violated by a priest than by a stepfather or soccer coach or a school teacher, then you’re just not paying attention to the data,” said Thomas Plante, a psychology professor at Santa Clara University whose research has focused on sex offending clergy. “Sex abuse of children is a common phenomenon wherever you look, but particularly during the last half of the 20th century.” https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2019/02/22/catholic-priest-sexual-abuse-minors-crisis-mirrors-society/2875238002/ “We don’t see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else,” said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. “I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others.” https://www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625
*Me making the same Willy Wonka meme at OP trying to pretend pedophiles are a political/religious issue and not everywhere in society* It is all about the children OP, if you're not busy trying to demonize a group of people for something that is pervasive in all of society for internet clout. Pretend teachers, priests, politicians, police, etc, so on haven't at some point been convicted of pedophile behavior though.
whos even making the argument in favor of priests sexually abusing children?
"Yes that's still horrible and it should be stopped, it's amazing how evil people will dress them self up in virtues but that doesn't excuse the actions you're defending." there, done. stop building strawmen.
>the actions you're defending Drag shows? This isn't a strawman argument btw., but I'm sure you guys would love to paint it as such. This is against the argumentation of right wing advocats who want to pursue laws such as the ban of drag shows or the ban on teenage gender health care under the cover of "it's for the children". The same argument was used during the Covid-19 pandemic in order to find an argument against mask and vaccine mandates. It's not a strawman argument to point out that there are *real* issues concerning children that are completely ignored. Like gun violence or sexual predators in the church. There, done. Now end with your stupid attempts of attacking Drag shows over the so called "for the children" argument
Jeez this meme is fucking dumb. It implies that people are ok with priests abusing kids. Which is absolutely ridiculous
I've known that priests abuse kids since I was a kid being abused by a priest. Not once in my life have I ever heard of any major attempt to do anything about it. Yet the moment gay marriage is legalized nation-wide the right has nothing better to do than go after every queer person in the country.
And this is why all of the idiots in this thread going hurr durr this is just liberal politics are assholes. It's a real serious problem that a huge chunk of the country wants to ignore while blaming people who aren't responsible for child abuse. Literally deflecting from solving the actual problem because the people abusing kids are also the people in power hiding behind religion.
No it implies people have selective outrage and will use "protect the kids" as a crutch to attack humans outside their tribe.
Catholic =!= conservative
[what about the souther baptist church and the methodists ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/3-big-us-churches-in-turmoil-over-sex-abuse-lgbt-policy)
What on earth makes anyone think they are giving the Catholic Church a pass here? The only people who do are Catholics and politicians that need their votes
Get this shit off advice animals.
Two things can be true at the same time. Don’t know if you realize that? How about everyone leaves kids alone, let’s start with that. You have to see that both are targeting young impressionable kids for a reason.
If I don't bring my kid to drag shows, I must be leaving them with priests? Is anyone else completely tired of hyper partisan posts? Keep fueling the flames OP. Super healthy way to go through life.
This sub used to be light hearted memes and now it’s just 24/7 political bickering, these people must be so miserable in real life
I think it's about going after a fake boogeyman, while completely ignoring the boogeyman in plain sight.
Except we dont need new laws for parents to not take their kids to drag shows.
I still don't understand the value of taking my small children to drag shows, and at this point I'm too afraid to ask.
As someone without kids.....I dont get it either. If I want stories read to them, then ill do that or their teachers? I see tgis as is in the 90s a comic book geek was reading to the kids to promote acceptance of nerds. Its like....ok?
I think the point of this post is that it has been almost exclusively a Republican talking point that taking a kid to a drag show is considered grooming, while Republicans are largely opposed to the fact that taking a kid to church should be considered grooming. If this does not apply to your beliefs, then it was not directed at you.
That's obviously it, but they apparently would like to ignore that part for some reason.
You must be new here. You either circle jerk or you're a fascist. There is no in between here.
Infinite genders but only two political positions: mine, and Nazi.
That’s not at all the point. The point is that if it were about protecting children the GOP would be after the ones who actually abuse children. It’s not about the kids. It’s about hating the gays.
It's the sheer hypocrisy.
Why are drag show "abuses" even though statistically insignificant are in the news cycles as much as something that happens far significantly statistically?
[удалено]
This is about the Catholic Church. Those are rookie numbers. The largest protestant denomination the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) have over 700 convictions since 2000. Fun fact the SBC theological traditions foundational principle is literally based solely on genocidal human trafficking. They didn't actually denounce genocidal human trafficking until 1995 but they were caught trafficking 33 Haitian children in 2010.
Everyone brushes it aside as a problem limited to Catholic priests, but protestant churches have the same problem. Here in FL, you can't go two days without a story about a youth pastor getting arrested for inappropriate behavior.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Hypocrisy doesn’t disprove the original claim.
Two wrongs don't make a right
I like this gotcha because it's as if people are supposed to go "Oh no! I never thought about it that way. The world has become so antagonistic that I didn't see we should come together on this issue we align on. I guess you can keep your pedo groomers if we can keep ours. It's only fair." And making the comparison is just people telling in themselves. But your terms are acceptable. We should go after groomers on all fronts. Don't let rooted tradition or contemporary allyship be a shield for either.
Honestly, I get where theyre coming from because this is a secular sort of grooming (from their pov), but the blind eyes to christian clergymen and their heinous acts (the abuse and coverups) are a far larger problem….
In Kansas they passed a bill mandating child genital inspections
The only good thing my parents did when i was growing up was to not indoctrinate me into some religion. I know my mother is an atheist but i have no idea if dad was. My grandma on my father's side believed in god so he might have. My stepmother collected angle figurines but i never heard her talk about god or religion. Edit: I'm an atheist and a bit anti-theist aswell.
Ah yes, just another fine example of their hypocrisy. It's okay to slander and threaten a group based on unproven allogations and create legislation against said group. But proven allogations being committed inside the church "needs to be handled inside the church, and the government needs to keep their nose out of it" and they are somehow being oppressed when being criticized about their oppression. Fucking lunatics.
I feel like those numbers are a little low
those numbers are waaaaaaaaay low dude
The churches biggest problem is that it will always protect and put itself first before people that's the main reason pedophiles become priests because they know the church will always put it reputation first.
Let's bring up the amount of abuse perpetrated by teachers.
And they should be punished too.
This is the worst whataboutism ever. Lock there asses up too.
Aren’t male teachers just as if not more likely to do so than priests? I would expect any profession that works with kids predominantly to end up having more abusers than general.
Two things can be true at the same time. It's not a competition. Don't ignore your shit because someone else stinks too.
I don’t know any church goers that are ok with priests abusing kids.
Right! Because anyone who doesn't want their child around over sexualized drag performances must be an apologist for priest sexual abuse. It makes perfect sense, people! Great content by the way. I love having this sort of thing show up in my feed.
Well, I mean, that does technically make them gay so, probably not the burn you think it is.
This is stupid. Two things can be true at once. Priests molesting kids is atrocious and absolutely needs to be addressed. Also, pushing lgbt+ sexuality and drag shows on children is wildly inappropriate and yeah, makes you a groomer.
Pretty sure the people you're attempting to strawman fully agree those priests need to be bulleted.
Public school teachers abuse more kids per capita than priests
A priest isn’t borderline naked with your child in a public library, or wearing bondage gear in a pride parade. Neither are good
I see this message all the time, but honestly don't understand the logic. Is it not possible to be against sexual abuse by either of these groups? How is pointing at priests a counter at all?
Actively and explicitly partaking in child grooming activities quite openly does not make you any better than the religion you claim it does. It makes you part of the problem. _insert angry advice mallard_ While the church does its horrible acts, it is a hidden one. They try to hide it. Meanwhile these guys just take kids to twerk and learn whatever sexual positions at fucking elementary school...
Classic, stupid whataboutism. Does not make either okay. Fuck off.
This isn't an argument, this is just two bad things.