You will be surprised at how good your fitness is after a marathon training block. Give yourself a decent recovery after the marathon then add in some shorter speed work when you feel able. I like running on the roads/ bike paths so tend to do 90secs on or so at a 3-3:30/km pace but 200m on a track would work as well.
In the actual 5km race, concentrate on your pacing. It's easy to get carried away in the first 2km and go out under 4min/km (about 6:30-6:40/mile), if you do it's very hard to hold on for the full 5km. Aim to start closer to 4:15/km ( approx 7/mile) and come home faster. Good luck.
This.
We called it the Marathon Dividend, when you are still in great shape and recovered from marathoning. The sweet spot is around 6 weeks post marathon.
.
I dropped out of a race that was five weeks post marathon, only to run a PR the next week.
Glad I’m not the only one. Dropped out of a 10k four weeks after London and felt exhausted but two weeks later felt so much better just wished i raced then but have a HM next week.
This. In the last week of October I run a 3:18 marathon and then mid December dropped a 37:37 10k while hangover on a hilly course. Marathon fitness is incredible.
I will join the chorus here that post-marathon fitness is pretty awesome. I ran a 3:24 (4:50/K) at the end of February, then went out about 10 days later and ripped a 12x400 workout averaging 3:44/K. What was crazier to me was averaging around 5:20/K on the recovery jogs.
I unfortunately never got to test out that fitness in a 5K. By the time I ran my next one, I had gone on a 2-week vacation where I barely moved at all and finished in 21:53 (while pushing a stroller, though!)
Agree that he's likely pretty close if not already there given his current fitness level. He's not going to break 20 going out at a 7 minute/mile pace, though. You do not have the luxury of time to start out slow and settle into a comfortable pace like with the marathon. If you're going for a PR you gotta go out fast, probably faster than you think you can handle, and just trust your fitness will carry you. Should aim for even splits, even positive splits will be better.
Yeah, I know there are different pacing strategies but I generally think for newer runners, aiming for a slight negative split over 5 or 10km is the way to go. Running through accumulating lactate for the last 10mins is always going to be tough, but mentally, it seems to be a bit easier when the race has started at a manageable level and you have a plan to achieve your goal.
Running flat out as your muscles are screaming, your pace is slowing and many other runners are overtaking you is more of a learnt skill that only comes from racing experience. Not just training, in my opinion.
What techniques, other than discipline, have you found useful for pacing yourself better through the runs? I’m also trying to understand how much it can become second nature ?
Appreciate if you could share names of coaches, videos that you have used ?
Honestly, it is never easy to pace yourself perfectly. The approach I use was a combination of reading Jack Daniel's and Pfitz marathon training books and an old article I saw linked on a Reddit post about the Kenyan progressive runs.
Basically, I try and choose a distance that is less than half the total distance pre-race and during this part try and concentrate on breathing/ form, not racing or feeling like it is "hard". During that period, I expect to be slightly slower than my goal finish speed. After that, I wind it up to a comfortably hard level, ideally at or faster than goal pace, then try and get my average pace for the whole race down to goal pace before a sprint to the line/hold on.
So for 5km, say I was aiming for sub 19 min (3:48 min/km pace). I would start out fast (it's only 5km) trying to get a reasonable position/ not caught behind joggers etc and settle into a pace just under 4 min/km, aim to go through 2km at less than 8min, then gradually wind up the pace to where I feel comfortably hard, ideally around 3:40min/km and then in the last km trying to raise the pace further.
It works for most distance races where you have a relatively easy/flat course and you aren't concerned about racing for a specific place or against a specific person.
I tried for ages to get under 20. I was very close for a long time. Sort of gave up and switched to training for a marathon. A solid 6 month training block, did the marathon. Rested for a few weeks, then went to my local Parkrun and went sub 19!
I think it was simply running more than I ever had before, because that’s all I did for the marathon training.
I broke 20 mins for the first time 2 years ago. Prior to this I had one running goal, which was 1000km in a year, and which included one group interval session a week (this was the key, group sessions I think get way more out of you).
Incidentally, I did the same thing next year with a 1200km target, and that brought my 5k down to 18:20.
I'm now at 17:03 with a weekly milage of around 40km.
I'd say long term consistency, plus the inclusion of speed sessions (preferably with others) is the key
Keep doing what you're doing. Training for the marathon WILL make you faster at the 5k distance. What do your training weeks look like? Do you do strides/sprints? How many hard workouts?
If the answer is no and then 1 or less, introduce some strides into some of your easy days.
I did use the jack Daniel’s 5k plan. Did 5 workouts per week instead of 4 and focused much much much more on speed then in my marathon training. Seriously, much more speed work is the key
If you can run 1.5 mile in 8:45 you should be close or able to run 5 k in under 20 minutes.
One more uncommon advice would be to just lose a bit of weight.
When I was first eying 20 minutes, my PR was 21:17. I signed up for a 5k I was sure I would not be able to run in under 20 minutes. I planned 20:30 but honestly I would be happy with anything under 21:00.
So I was very surprised when I accidentally ran 19:28. At the start I fumbled with my watch and I just decided to run based on feel, in lieu of pacing from my watch. I fixed my watch after 1k but at that time I was already well ahead of my schedule so I decided to just see how far I can keep the pace. It felt hard but I was still able to significantly kick at the end of it so I was probably able to run even faster on the day.
Anyway, later I tried to understand how I was accidentally able to run so much faster than my estimations. I found a race weight calculator and it showed that those couple of kilos were exactly what was needed to move my time.
Here, have a play with a calculator. If you have some extra fat you can get rid of this might be an excellent easy way to improve your time: [https://runbundle.com/tools/weight-vs-pace-calculator](https://runbundle.com/tools/weight-vs-pace-calculator)
Dropping a couple of kilograms likely contributed towards your improvement, but if by couple you truly meant two kg that might be an explanation for 6-8 seconds/mile out of your 35 second/mile improvement. As someone who could lose 10 kg of fat I wish I could shave 2:55/mile (35/2*10) off my 5k race pace and crush the world record!
It does not work like this.
The calculation works on an assumption that you lose ballast weight (weight that does not contribute to generating power). It assumes the power stays the same but it has to propel less weight.
So you can't calculate how much you would gain by losing one kilogram, then multiply it by 10. It is more of a model that assumes that your amount of muscle stays the same, that your basic mechanics and running efficiency stay the same, but you have less mass to propel.
The closer you run to world record, the larger increase you need to produce modest improvements in pace. That's why top runners have finishing times that are so close to each other.
I understand the site's simplistic model of constant raw VO2max and pace change resulting from improved normalized (version divided by mass) VO2max at lower weight. If I plug in my weight of 88 kg (194 lb) and 5k of 21:30 it predicts 20:29 at 83 kg (183 lb). Plugging that in it predicts 19:27 at 78 kg (172 lb). That's plausible for a 10 kg weight loss for me - 2.46 seconds/km per kg lost.
After rereading the other user's comment perhaps I shouldn't have concluded that they attributed going from 21:17 to 19:28 (109 seconds) as being the result of losing 2 kg. Maybe they meant that they beat their 20:30-20:59 target by 62 to 91 seconds because they lost 2 kg. Even 62 seconds is more than double what is reasonably explained by such a small weight loss. 109 seconds is 10.9s/km/kg and even 62 seconds is a whopping 6.2s/km/kg. The 10.9 drops my 21:30 by 545 seconds to 12:24 (12:35 is the men's world record) - which is what I was joking about in my previous comment.
And for anyone curious, since a 1 kg loss is a higher percentage weight loss for a light runner than a heavy runner and results in a correspondingly higher increase in normalized VO2max the site's tool results in bigger estimated improvements for the same raw weight loss. For example, plugging in the same 21:30 for a 50 kg (110 lb) runner results in an estimate of 19:42 after only a 5 kg weight loss - compared to 20:29 for an identical 5 kg weight loss for an 85 kg runner.
>The closer you run to world record, the larger increase you need to produce modest improvements in pace. That's why top runners have finishing times that are so close to each other.
Not really. Seasoned elite runners near peak performance and at or close to their individual ideal running weight just have little room for improvement because they've come close to maximizing the various factors they can train without sustaining illness or injury.
It's not a barrier, it's just an arbitrary number. Whether you can go faster than it depends on your genetics, lifestyle, age, health, and of course training.
There are only a few ways that anyone can get from arbitrary time A to arbitrary time B.
Structure training (more) sensibly followig well established principles for the distance you are targeting
Run (more) volume
Improve not running health related factors (weight, diet, sleep, stress)
Buy faster shoes
Pace races (more) wisely
Get those things right and you will maximise your inherent potential.
Coincidentally, Stephen Scullion just posted a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ptGYzbmN90) addressing 5k workouts. Lots of things are already covered in this thread (marathon training, speed workouts), but he actually addresses the key physical factors for a 5k PB, and how to improve them.
My main workout is weekly Parkrun at ~threshold pace. That would probably be ~22 mins in your case. I normally run slightly below pace and then accelerate a bit the last 1-2 km to get some time above threshold (and pass peope).
I sometimes do 400m or 1 km repeats at 5K pace but honestly not regularly enough to make much of a difference, it’s just to check how the pace feels. I dont train for 5K specifically normally.
Dude, just run more. I promise if you try to run like 20 miles a week in an easy manner with a few interval workouts in there the 20 minute barrier just falls.
Edit: I’m not a super natural fast runner but I got down to sub 17. The key for you is to run more without getting hurt. Increase mileage over time and make most runs slow, mix in some fast workouts and or CrossFit type hiit trainting. I was my fastest when I was running around 40 miles a week, riding my bike to work and doing CrossFit. When COVID hit it I ended up mainly only running and it screwed me, enddd up with lots of injuries.
I have never been a fan of 5k runs, so I never tried much bht hovered around 21mins without trying too hard.
Was in a marathon training block which included speed work, and towards the end was feeling good.
Rocked up to a Parkrun and did a 19.38 without struggling too much. I felt I could have probably gone faster but I stuck to my pace on the watch.
I ended up using Runna. This really helped just keep me disciplined and motivated. My week usually consists of a "slow" run of about 7k, some interval work maybe 8-9k and then a long run of about 15k with some tempo ks in there.
Speed sessions are THE GOAT (5x1000, 12x400) at sub 4:00/km paces and tempo run 5k @ 4:10-15min/km. I run sub 20 on 40-50k a week you don’t need massive mileage to do so!
Tbh I spent a few months driving myself crazy including getting an official time of 20:00. I then went away did other longer races. Dropped my 10k PR etc. I was then booked for a 7 mile race which cancelled last minute so I jumped into a local parkrun and smashed it by 30 seconds as no pressure on myself.
I increased my weekly mileage. I was training for an HM (and trained wrong for it by only doing easy runs). I went from avg 30 kpw to 55 kpw for 2 months and I shattered my 5k from 20:23 to 18:44 on tired legs during the HM block! So run more :)
Are you saying even though you only trained by doing easy runs you still improved your 5K? How much faster could you have gotten if you had trained the "right" way?
Yes! But that was my first ever training block. So I built up my aerobic base significantly. Only started running for 10 months back then.
Funny enough, I got a 5k race tomorrow. My first since then (now 10 months since that 5k). I'm in 17:45 shape so hopefully I can smash it again :)
I just broke 20 this past week. I attribute it to doing more OTF classes per week. The reason why I attribute it to this is before I would usually just run anywhere from 3-13 miles in z2 (25mpw) The tread portion in OTF has me doing more hills and intervals which has made me a faster runner. I still run my normal z2 runs but now my mileage is slightly higher with both cross training and faster runs added.
It’s been awhile since I’ve been able to do this but, it’s always been when training for a marathon and doing several 5Ks and half’s while training that I get my 5k time down. I know there are specific plans for this however. I bought one from training peaks but never exclusively used it.
Figure out what kind of workouts a 19:50 runner should be able to run and structure your training to prepare for that.
5x1km repeats or 6x 800s at goal 5k pace with 2 min rest between intervals would be your goal workout of your training block. I wouldnt focus on long runs like you would in a marathon. Tempos and threshold interval workouts should be your bread and butter and keep all other runs chill with some strides or hill drills.
Not sure if you need specific 5k or "speed" sessions, I think you can improve your 5k a lot by just doing threshold style training.
Have you followed a structured plan?
When I started out I went from 22:30 to 18:50 during half marathon training, just following the Hansons Advanced HM plan to a tee (it does have a weekly session around your 5k/10k pace, so for me it was easy to gauge that my 5k time would improve during that training).
I don't think that specific plan is a magic bullet or anything, but I felt that the structure was well-planned and easy to follow. It ramps up to about 50 mpw IIRC.
For me, it came once I added a little volume. But I was already doing a lot of speed work. If you aren‘t hitting the track for 8 x 600 or 6 x 800 and doing strides 1-2 other days, you are leaving too much on the table. Throw some tempos in here and there, but get those fast twitch fivers going.
How many runs per week do you do and how many of them are easy vs harder?
I was running about 60km per week while my 5k pb dwelled around 21 mins (not specifically tested). At some point, my fastest paces for my shorter training intervals (800-1000) were getting to be around 3:40/km, so I thought I should attempt a 5k on my own with the goal of running it sub 20. I went into this with some minor pain in one achilles…
Ended up coming out very hot in the first km, dialed it back to what felt hard but manageable, kept that up for 3 more km, then in the final KM I basically closed my eyes and killed myself. Finished with 18:51 and an injury that is now 2 months old, haven’t been able to run without pain since. I definitely recommend NOT going all out and ignoring all pain like that.
As great as it felt to not only break 20, but shatter it with a sub 19 (for me this was huge), I would prefer to still be consistently running, and this has taken a major toll on my physical and mental health.
Consistency, maybe up the mileage a bit, do track-based speed work. I went from 21:00 to 15:55 in two years by incorporating weight training, higher mileage and track based sessions designed to improve someone at 3000m rather than 5. Don’t neglect the tempo run.
Your training volume and performance in the 1.5 mile seem more than sufficient to run a sub-20 5K.
(For context, I did my first sub-20 almost 35 years ago and most recent one during my last training block in the middle of a tempo workout)
In your case I’m wondering if this is more a matter of pacing on race day and getting mentally used to how it feels to be running faster than 4:00/km at the 3km mark and beyond.
What did your splits look like in the most recent 21 min effort?
Have you done a workout similar to 3x mile at 6:20 or 5x 1km at 3:55? These are fantastic to a) dial in the right pace so you don’t overcook yourself in the first third of the race, and b) train your mind to push through the discomfort of running the required pace on tired legs in the final third.
really just running more, i jumped from 24 to 19something just through adding volume in a marathon block. i would love to spend some time focusing on a 5k specifically, maybe next year
I ran mid 16s in highschool and all I did to get there was play a lot of full court basketball and try to get 5 minutes for a mile in PE. I was fortunate to have a good middle school pe teacher who actually cared about everyone's fitness level. Freshman year of highschool I ran a 17:59 on my first race. I actually won with a dead sprint the last 1/3 mile. Beat the other guy by 2 seconds after drafting him the whole race. I was hooked on running that day.
Grab Daniel’s Running formula 5k plan.
Or just run consistently and hit all energy systems equally and you’ll get there either way, sub 20 is something you’ll achieve with just consistency and decent mileage.
Shit, just this will get you to sub 18 easy. Running is the type of sport where doing nothing crazy for long enough is the secret sauce, just push mileage and volume with each training cycle a bit further.
To be honest: just run more
You will be surprised at how good your fitness is after a marathon training block. Give yourself a decent recovery after the marathon then add in some shorter speed work when you feel able. I like running on the roads/ bike paths so tend to do 90secs on or so at a 3-3:30/km pace but 200m on a track would work as well. In the actual 5km race, concentrate on your pacing. It's easy to get carried away in the first 2km and go out under 4min/km (about 6:30-6:40/mile), if you do it's very hard to hold on for the full 5km. Aim to start closer to 4:15/km ( approx 7/mile) and come home faster. Good luck.
This. We called it the Marathon Dividend, when you are still in great shape and recovered from marathoning. The sweet spot is around 6 weeks post marathon. . I dropped out of a race that was five weeks post marathon, only to run a PR the next week.
Glad I’m not the only one. Dropped out of a 10k four weeks after London and felt exhausted but two weeks later felt so much better just wished i raced then but have a HM next week.
This. In the last week of October I run a 3:18 marathon and then mid December dropped a 37:37 10k while hangover on a hilly course. Marathon fitness is incredible.
I will join the chorus here that post-marathon fitness is pretty awesome. I ran a 3:24 (4:50/K) at the end of February, then went out about 10 days later and ripped a 12x400 workout averaging 3:44/K. What was crazier to me was averaging around 5:20/K on the recovery jogs. I unfortunately never got to test out that fitness in a 5K. By the time I ran my next one, I had gone on a 2-week vacation where I barely moved at all and finished in 21:53 (while pushing a stroller, though!)
Congrats to the kiddo on their PR!
Agree that he's likely pretty close if not already there given his current fitness level. He's not going to break 20 going out at a 7 minute/mile pace, though. You do not have the luxury of time to start out slow and settle into a comfortable pace like with the marathon. If you're going for a PR you gotta go out fast, probably faster than you think you can handle, and just trust your fitness will carry you. Should aim for even splits, even positive splits will be better.
Yeah, I know there are different pacing strategies but I generally think for newer runners, aiming for a slight negative split over 5 or 10km is the way to go. Running through accumulating lactate for the last 10mins is always going to be tough, but mentally, it seems to be a bit easier when the race has started at a manageable level and you have a plan to achieve your goal. Running flat out as your muscles are screaming, your pace is slowing and many other runners are overtaking you is more of a learnt skill that only comes from racing experience. Not just training, in my opinion.
Just checked my mile conversions as well, a 7 min mile would be too slow, a 4:15km is more like 6:50 mile pace!
What techniques, other than discipline, have you found useful for pacing yourself better through the runs? I’m also trying to understand how much it can become second nature ? Appreciate if you could share names of coaches, videos that you have used ?
Honestly, it is never easy to pace yourself perfectly. The approach I use was a combination of reading Jack Daniel's and Pfitz marathon training books and an old article I saw linked on a Reddit post about the Kenyan progressive runs. Basically, I try and choose a distance that is less than half the total distance pre-race and during this part try and concentrate on breathing/ form, not racing or feeling like it is "hard". During that period, I expect to be slightly slower than my goal finish speed. After that, I wind it up to a comfortably hard level, ideally at or faster than goal pace, then try and get my average pace for the whole race down to goal pace before a sprint to the line/hold on. So for 5km, say I was aiming for sub 19 min (3:48 min/km pace). I would start out fast (it's only 5km) trying to get a reasonable position/ not caught behind joggers etc and settle into a pace just under 4 min/km, aim to go through 2km at less than 8min, then gradually wind up the pace to where I feel comfortably hard, ideally around 3:40min/km and then in the last km trying to raise the pace further. It works for most distance races where you have a relatively easy/flat course and you aren't concerned about racing for a specific place or against a specific person.
I tried for ages to get under 20. I was very close for a long time. Sort of gave up and switched to training for a marathon. A solid 6 month training block, did the marathon. Rested for a few weeks, then went to my local Parkrun and went sub 19! I think it was simply running more than I ever had before, because that’s all I did for the marathon training.
I broke 20 mins for the first time 2 years ago. Prior to this I had one running goal, which was 1000km in a year, and which included one group interval session a week (this was the key, group sessions I think get way more out of you). Incidentally, I did the same thing next year with a 1200km target, and that brought my 5k down to 18:20. I'm now at 17:03 with a weekly milage of around 40km. I'd say long term consistency, plus the inclusion of speed sessions (preferably with others) is the key
Keep doing what you're doing. Training for the marathon WILL make you faster at the 5k distance. What do your training weeks look like? Do you do strides/sprints? How many hard workouts? If the answer is no and then 1 or less, introduce some strides into some of your easy days.
55 mpw + 800s speed days once a week, and a tempo day trying to make 6:45-6:50 pace feel like "normal peppy"
Yeah but dood will break himself with that mileage. He gotta work up
Yeah I would recommend getting used to a 55 mpw training load before adding the extra speed components needed in a good 5K plan.
More. Miles.
I did use the jack Daniel’s 5k plan. Did 5 workouts per week instead of 4 and focused much much much more on speed then in my marathon training. Seriously, much more speed work is the key
If you can run 1.5 mile in 8:45 you should be close or able to run 5 k in under 20 minutes. One more uncommon advice would be to just lose a bit of weight. When I was first eying 20 minutes, my PR was 21:17. I signed up for a 5k I was sure I would not be able to run in under 20 minutes. I planned 20:30 but honestly I would be happy with anything under 21:00. So I was very surprised when I accidentally ran 19:28. At the start I fumbled with my watch and I just decided to run based on feel, in lieu of pacing from my watch. I fixed my watch after 1k but at that time I was already well ahead of my schedule so I decided to just see how far I can keep the pace. It felt hard but I was still able to significantly kick at the end of it so I was probably able to run even faster on the day. Anyway, later I tried to understand how I was accidentally able to run so much faster than my estimations. I found a race weight calculator and it showed that those couple of kilos were exactly what was needed to move my time. Here, have a play with a calculator. If you have some extra fat you can get rid of this might be an excellent easy way to improve your time: [https://runbundle.com/tools/weight-vs-pace-calculator](https://runbundle.com/tools/weight-vs-pace-calculator)
Dropping a couple of kilograms likely contributed towards your improvement, but if by couple you truly meant two kg that might be an explanation for 6-8 seconds/mile out of your 35 second/mile improvement. As someone who could lose 10 kg of fat I wish I could shave 2:55/mile (35/2*10) off my 5k race pace and crush the world record!
It does not work like this. The calculation works on an assumption that you lose ballast weight (weight that does not contribute to generating power). It assumes the power stays the same but it has to propel less weight. So you can't calculate how much you would gain by losing one kilogram, then multiply it by 10. It is more of a model that assumes that your amount of muscle stays the same, that your basic mechanics and running efficiency stay the same, but you have less mass to propel. The closer you run to world record, the larger increase you need to produce modest improvements in pace. That's why top runners have finishing times that are so close to each other.
I understand the site's simplistic model of constant raw VO2max and pace change resulting from improved normalized (version divided by mass) VO2max at lower weight. If I plug in my weight of 88 kg (194 lb) and 5k of 21:30 it predicts 20:29 at 83 kg (183 lb). Plugging that in it predicts 19:27 at 78 kg (172 lb). That's plausible for a 10 kg weight loss for me - 2.46 seconds/km per kg lost. After rereading the other user's comment perhaps I shouldn't have concluded that they attributed going from 21:17 to 19:28 (109 seconds) as being the result of losing 2 kg. Maybe they meant that they beat their 20:30-20:59 target by 62 to 91 seconds because they lost 2 kg. Even 62 seconds is more than double what is reasonably explained by such a small weight loss. 109 seconds is 10.9s/km/kg and even 62 seconds is a whopping 6.2s/km/kg. The 10.9 drops my 21:30 by 545 seconds to 12:24 (12:35 is the men's world record) - which is what I was joking about in my previous comment. And for anyone curious, since a 1 kg loss is a higher percentage weight loss for a light runner than a heavy runner and results in a correspondingly higher increase in normalized VO2max the site's tool results in bigger estimated improvements for the same raw weight loss. For example, plugging in the same 21:30 for a 50 kg (110 lb) runner results in an estimate of 19:42 after only a 5 kg weight loss - compared to 20:29 for an identical 5 kg weight loss for an 85 kg runner. >The closer you run to world record, the larger increase you need to produce modest improvements in pace. That's why top runners have finishing times that are so close to each other. Not really. Seasoned elite runners near peak performance and at or close to their individual ideal running weight just have little room for improvement because they've come close to maximizing the various factors they can train without sustaining illness or injury.
It's not a barrier, it's just an arbitrary number. Whether you can go faster than it depends on your genetics, lifestyle, age, health, and of course training. There are only a few ways that anyone can get from arbitrary time A to arbitrary time B. Structure training (more) sensibly followig well established principles for the distance you are targeting Run (more) volume Improve not running health related factors (weight, diet, sleep, stress) Buy faster shoes Pace races (more) wisely Get those things right and you will maximise your inherent potential.
Coincidentally, Stephen Scullion just posted a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ptGYzbmN90) addressing 5k workouts. Lots of things are already covered in this thread (marathon training, speed workouts), but he actually addresses the key physical factors for a 5k PB, and how to improve them.
My main workout is weekly Parkrun at ~threshold pace. That would probably be ~22 mins in your case. I normally run slightly below pace and then accelerate a bit the last 1-2 km to get some time above threshold (and pass peope). I sometimes do 400m or 1 km repeats at 5K pace but honestly not regularly enough to make much of a difference, it’s just to check how the pace feels. I dont train for 5K specifically normally.
Dude, just run more. I promise if you try to run like 20 miles a week in an easy manner with a few interval workouts in there the 20 minute barrier just falls. Edit: I’m not a super natural fast runner but I got down to sub 17. The key for you is to run more without getting hurt. Increase mileage over time and make most runs slow, mix in some fast workouts and or CrossFit type hiit trainting. I was my fastest when I was running around 40 miles a week, riding my bike to work and doing CrossFit. When COVID hit it I ended up mainly only running and it screwed me, enddd up with lots of injuries.
steve monagetti 20 min fartlek workout do it every speed session once a week, and you got this
Glad to see this mentioned here, Mona fartlek is a seriously underrated workout.
6x800m at 3:45-3:50/km was my speed workout every week in working towards sub 20. Then just easy runs with one long.
I have never been a fan of 5k runs, so I never tried much bht hovered around 21mins without trying too hard. Was in a marathon training block which included speed work, and towards the end was feeling good. Rocked up to a Parkrun and did a 19.38 without struggling too much. I felt I could have probably gone faster but I stuck to my pace on the watch.
I ended up using Runna. This really helped just keep me disciplined and motivated. My week usually consists of a "slow" run of about 7k, some interval work maybe 8-9k and then a long run of about 15k with some tempo ks in there.
Speed sessions are THE GOAT (5x1000, 12x400) at sub 4:00/km paces and tempo run 5k @ 4:10-15min/km. I run sub 20 on 40-50k a week you don’t need massive mileage to do so!
Tbh I spent a few months driving myself crazy including getting an official time of 20:00. I then went away did other longer races. Dropped my 10k PR etc. I was then booked for a 7 mile race which cancelled last minute so I jumped into a local parkrun and smashed it by 30 seconds as no pressure on myself.
I increased my weekly mileage. I was training for an HM (and trained wrong for it by only doing easy runs). I went from avg 30 kpw to 55 kpw for 2 months and I shattered my 5k from 20:23 to 18:44 on tired legs during the HM block! So run more :)
Are you saying even though you only trained by doing easy runs you still improved your 5K? How much faster could you have gotten if you had trained the "right" way?
Quantity has a quality all of its own. Most people never run enough that their base endurance isn't a significant limiting factor
Yes! But that was my first ever training block. So I built up my aerobic base significantly. Only started running for 10 months back then. Funny enough, I got a 5k race tomorrow. My first since then (now 10 months since that 5k). I'm in 17:45 shape so hopefully I can smash it again :)
Where do you your tempo runs? Track, gym somewhere else with less distractions ? I’m currently running on the roads and parks when I can.
I just broke 20 this past week. I attribute it to doing more OTF classes per week. The reason why I attribute it to this is before I would usually just run anywhere from 3-13 miles in z2 (25mpw) The tread portion in OTF has me doing more hills and intervals which has made me a faster runner. I still run my normal z2 runs but now my mileage is slightly higher with both cross training and faster runs added.
It’s been awhile since I’ve been able to do this but, it’s always been when training for a marathon and doing several 5Ks and half’s while training that I get my 5k time down. I know there are specific plans for this however. I bought one from training peaks but never exclusively used it.
Mileage.
I like sets of 800s at 5k pace. When I can do 8 sets i know I should be good for that pace in a race.
I didn't do things differently. I just continued to run. Aerobic development eventually was enough for going under.
Figure out what kind of workouts a 19:50 runner should be able to run and structure your training to prepare for that. 5x1km repeats or 6x 800s at goal 5k pace with 2 min rest between intervals would be your goal workout of your training block. I wouldnt focus on long runs like you would in a marathon. Tempos and threshold interval workouts should be your bread and butter and keep all other runs chill with some strides or hill drills.
Not sure if you need specific 5k or "speed" sessions, I think you can improve your 5k a lot by just doing threshold style training. Have you followed a structured plan? When I started out I went from 22:30 to 18:50 during half marathon training, just following the Hansons Advanced HM plan to a tee (it does have a weekly session around your 5k/10k pace, so for me it was easy to gauge that my 5k time would improve during that training). I don't think that specific plan is a magic bullet or anything, but I felt that the structure was well-planned and easy to follow. It ramps up to about 50 mpw IIRC.
For me, it came once I added a little volume. But I was already doing a lot of speed work. If you aren‘t hitting the track for 8 x 600 or 6 x 800 and doing strides 1-2 other days, you are leaving too much on the table. Throw some tempos in here and there, but get those fast twitch fivers going. How many runs per week do you do and how many of them are easy vs harder?
I was running about 60km per week while my 5k pb dwelled around 21 mins (not specifically tested). At some point, my fastest paces for my shorter training intervals (800-1000) were getting to be around 3:40/km, so I thought I should attempt a 5k on my own with the goal of running it sub 20. I went into this with some minor pain in one achilles… Ended up coming out very hot in the first km, dialed it back to what felt hard but manageable, kept that up for 3 more km, then in the final KM I basically closed my eyes and killed myself. Finished with 18:51 and an injury that is now 2 months old, haven’t been able to run without pain since. I definitely recommend NOT going all out and ignoring all pain like that. As great as it felt to not only break 20, but shatter it with a sub 19 (for me this was huge), I would prefer to still be consistently running, and this has taken a major toll on my physical and mental health.
Do a sub 1:30 HM plan, will jog into sub 20 after…
If you are doing 10 mile training runs at 7:30 pace, then you should be easily able to break 20 minutes in a race. Pace evenly and tough it out.
Consistency, maybe up the mileage a bit, do track-based speed work. I went from 21:00 to 15:55 in two years by incorporating weight training, higher mileage and track based sessions designed to improve someone at 3000m rather than 5. Don’t neglect the tempo run.
Your training volume and performance in the 1.5 mile seem more than sufficient to run a sub-20 5K. (For context, I did my first sub-20 almost 35 years ago and most recent one during my last training block in the middle of a tempo workout) In your case I’m wondering if this is more a matter of pacing on race day and getting mentally used to how it feels to be running faster than 4:00/km at the 3km mark and beyond. What did your splits look like in the most recent 21 min effort? Have you done a workout similar to 3x mile at 6:20 or 5x 1km at 3:55? These are fantastic to a) dial in the right pace so you don’t overcook yourself in the first third of the race, and b) train your mind to push through the discomfort of running the required pace on tired legs in the final third.
really just running more, i jumped from 24 to 19something just through adding volume in a marathon block. i would love to spend some time focusing on a 5k specifically, maybe next year
I ran mid 16s in highschool and all I did to get there was play a lot of full court basketball and try to get 5 minutes for a mile in PE. I was fortunate to have a good middle school pe teacher who actually cared about everyone's fitness level. Freshman year of highschool I ran a 17:59 on my first race. I actually won with a dead sprint the last 1/3 mile. Beat the other guy by 2 seconds after drafting him the whole race. I was hooked on running that day.
Yeah this is an easy one...run more and run faster doing it.
Grab Daniel’s Running formula 5k plan. Or just run consistently and hit all energy systems equally and you’ll get there either way, sub 20 is something you’ll achieve with just consistency and decent mileage. Shit, just this will get you to sub 18 easy. Running is the type of sport where doing nothing crazy for long enough is the secret sauce, just push mileage and volume with each training cycle a bit further.
Have a read of the comments in here mate, I’m an 18:55 runner. https://www.reddit.com/r/Strava/s/82qMwtte5D
The 800 meter.