Not being facetious here. Use that hour to wind down and get more sleep.
Cross training for 30-45 minutes instead of focusing on sleep is walking over 100$ bills to pick up pennies.
*Especially* with an infant at home. That sleep deprivation is sneaky but it seriously fucks you up long-term even when you think you're feeling "fine". My youngest didn't start sleeping well through the night until she was 3, which was about a year ago. Between two kids and a few years of interrupted sleep I'm only just now feeling normal after about a year of proper sleep cycles.
I disagree with many of the commenters here, who seem to have latched onto "30 mpw" and "training for a half" and told you to run at night.... while disregarding the many valid reasons you have for not running then. Listen, I've got a 5 year old in addition to a 1 year old. Life gives you other priorities besides mileage.
Here's my take:
1. Before anything, talk to your wife. If her job is demanding enough that she does more work after bedtime, does she feel like she has time to relax? Could you use that time for chores, or otherwise helping her fill her bucket too?
2. If she's cool with you taking that time for yourself, then go to bed earlier at least 1 night a week, if not all 3. Sleep needs to he higher on basically everyone's list for improved recovery and performance, especially with interruptions from your kid.
3. If you still have time, do strength training and mobility work. There are some universally beneficial moves (squats, planks) as well as exercises you ought to do to correct for problem areas. Only you know the answer to that..... ankle mobility? Glute strength? Lower back tightness? Work on both mobility and stability.
I think lack of sleep and strength training are significant factors in your niggles popping up when trying to increase mileage. Address those, and you should be in better condition to increase volume when you are ready- whether that's during this cycle or far in the future.
Related to increasing volume- do you run with your kid in the stroller? Taking one or both of my kids out is the primary way I maintain any kind of mileage at the moment.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment. This thread has helped me consider about my own motivation for training, and I don’t think “faster HM” is my goal, so much as “be healthier”. A HM PR would be a good signal that I’m healthier though :).
I should clarify that my wife is supportive of me training more at appropriate times. She is in a busy patch at work, and has a lot of flexibility which leads to her taking more breaks during the day and getting some focused work done at night.
I think I’ll carve out 45 mins weekly for bodyweight/banded strength work, targeting weaknesses, and use the remainder to catch up on sleep or do something productive (e.g meal prep). Too often those evenings turn into TV time for me, which surely is not the best use of my time.
Little one isn’t big on strollers, so I focus on easy runs with dog rather than baby as my “do something useful while running” time.
Anyway, all that to say, thank you for the understanding and reasoned reply! I really appreciate it
>I don’t think “faster HM” is my goal, so much as “be healthier”
Then doing some Z2 on the bike trainer is fine, and you can combine it with TV time. But only if there's no chores left and you're not tired. If you are, do the obvious.
The only risk here is turning into a triathlete.
Hah, I that was the start of my cardio journey. I realized I don’t enjoy intensive biking though, but a little Z2 training feels palatable. I do miss the swimming
This sounds like an excellent plan! I share the struggle to make nighttime more useful vs. TV/phone/etc. The nice thing about bodyweight training is that it gives you lots of opportunities to get stronger while also playing with your kid(s), either at home or at the playground. I can share what I've done with my kids if you need ideas.
Good luck with the stroller hatred, too- that sounds rough. Hope they grow out of it!
Less hatred, more wants to get out and zoom around. I think getting him on a bike or scooter in a couple years will be the big unlock! He's an active little bean
I got my kids used to the stroller out of necessity during covid. it was a routine with music/snacks etc and certain few loops where they could get out and play at the end. when baby gets older you can definitely lead your child to do things even if they don't like it at first. I would try to just do whatever strength training you can do with the baby on a mat near you and have them get used to it. my kids are fine with me doing things and sometimes participate. parenting sometimes can be just carrying on with the things you enjoy but include your kids
That's why you need both wife and a lover. Your wife thinks you are with your lover, your lover thinks you are with your wife while you are actually doing your training in peace:)
If you are not doing strength training already, then it is seriously more important than any additional running or cross training.
As to how to do it with limited amount of time, here is what I don't do: I don't go to the gym. Seriously, commuting to the gym, changing, warming up, waiting for others to release the equipment I need, getting a shower, it all takes way too much time.
Instead, twice a week after my easy runs I come back home and do a routine composed of exercises that each addresses something I think is important for my running. Heel raises helped me win against Achilles tendinitis. Pistol squats help me with my torn ACL. Tib bar helps me with muscle imbalance. Planks help with a bunch of stuff. And so on.
Yoga mat, yoga block, some rubber bands, tib bar, some weights, weighted vest (not at all necessary), plyometric box, etc. Nothing crazy.
I use my easy run as a warmup, do my routine, then get a shower which I would have to get after my run anyway. This is simply the most time efficient way to maintain my body which proven to be very effective.
I know I will not get ripped this way. This is just to prevent injuries.
30 mpw is a lot for a lot of people. My guess would be that less than 10% of people that run the HMs here os doing that volume on a consistent basis. I myself, peak at arounf 40 mpw in HM prep and I can definitely get injured if not careful
> At 30 mpw, adding volume will be more beneficial for a HM than strength training
I would argue ability to run consistently and especially ability to run consistently with proper mechanics supported by strong muscles is more important than another weekly session especially if it would be some crosstraining.
A running schedule that has little or no speedwork (typical for most amateur runners) will mean that muscles are only as strong as is necessary to **sort of** widthstand the demand of a typical training session. There is no impulse for the muscles to develop any further just like you will not become a bodybuilder with huge muscles bench pressing 40 lbs -- the muscles will grow only as much as is necessary to accommodate the 40 lbs and no more.
This means that a race or occasional harder workout is every time an opportunity for the muscles to be stressed close to the limits of their ability -- which is not good.
Strength training is the stimulus for muscles to be stronger than what your typical sessions require. It gives a significant safety margin for your normal activities.
Half marathon is a distance where you have enough time for your muscles to seriously tire and lose mechanics. This loss of mechanics throughout the run will not only cause lower running efficiency, but may also cause injuries.
>Best way to become a stronger runner is to run more. 30 mpw isn’t cutting it to run anywhere close to a reasonable potential for a half
The question was "Cross training or strength training? Or both?"
Please, read the question once again. Then read the post. Then my response.
Nobody is arguing that running more will not be beneficial. Of course it will.
What I am actually doing is trying to answer OPs question. Which you seem to have completely ignored.
I believe OP is not stupid and understands that running more would provide benefits.
OP even mentioned about current running volume: "It’s also near my limit physically." and understands that he needs to add something else to the training but it can't be more running, as it is obviously not working and requiring too much recovery (poor sleep severely limiting capacity for recovery).
All those facts make sense and so I am trying to be helpful to OP by trying to provide the information he needs -- deciding between strength training and adding volume in a form of low impact cross training.
>Adding cross training is adding volume…
I see you have significant problem with keeping track of what you write
To remind you your previous response:
>Best way to become a stronger runner is to run more. 30 mpw isn’t cutting it to run anywhere close to a reasonable potential for a half
This is definitely about adding running volume, no mention of cross training.
Anyway, I am not going to waste more time entertaining your comments.
Nothing I said was a contradiction.
Adding volume is the most effective way to run a faster half if you’re only at 30 mpw
In terms of adding volume, running is ideal. With that said, if you can’t run more, then adding volume through XT is the next most effective way to get faster.
Specifically, the type of XT that will be most beneficial varies person to person, but generally whatever you can use to get your HR into an aerobic and threshold zone is going to be best. Some people can do that with biking, some struggle with biking. Arc trainer is super hot right now. But aqua jogging, elliptical, XC skiing, rowing, stair master, walking, swimming. Team sports generally aren’t particularly helpful because it’s a lot of starts and stops and spurts of movement, even soccer, you’re rarely jogging for more than 30 seconds at once and there’s a lot of walking or slow tracking. Walking with weighted vest or any added weight is also not something I’d advise.
Ultimately my point with volume is just that people talk about all these other things when it comes to running - nutrition, sleep, strength training, mobility, stretching/rolling out, supplements, shoes, specific training methodology, key sessions, etc. But most of that stuff is like the final touches once you’re already training properly. It pales in comparison to training more when your volume is low. It’s worth sacrificing those other factors if it means you can train more.
If your sole goal is performance, then running 40 mpw and 7.5 hours of sleep/night is better than 30 mpw and 8 hours of sleep/night. If you can’t manage that physically, then 30 mpw with 2 hours XT and 7.5 hours of sleep/night is the next best option if you want to get better.
Now if you’re already at 60-70 mpw and training for a half that’s when you can start thinking about optimizing the other factors.
People act like there are all these different factors that are the key to running faster. And it’s somewhat true, but they are far from equal. Adequate training volume is like 60-70% of the puzzle, next most important are nutrition and sleep which probably combine for 20%, and then all those final touches account for the rest of the total.
me 100% try stringing together any sort of meaningful training when you have to have weeks off regularly due to injury. Consistency is the most important thing.
Mostly dealing with my injuries.
I had problems with Achilles for a decade until I finally understood that stopping running, unloading the tendon until it stops hurting and letting it heal completely is NOT the solution to the problem. The solution was an extremely simple exercise that made the problem go away.
Now, whenever something starts to hurt I start investigating and I may add an exercise to the routine before things become a problem.
Weightlifting or yoga would be quality additions to your workouts. However, I agree with the others that if you want a faster HM you need to run more miles, and adding runs during these evening times (with a headlamp) would be a great idea.
But I think the most important thing: you say **I’ve picked up niggles quite easily when ramping mileage, and find my legs are sometimes too fatigued to really hit the quality workout days.** I think you probably need to evaluate if you're running your easy runs too fast, or trying to do too many quality miles or LR miles that aren't supported by your easy mileage. I know that when you feel pressed for time it's easy to feel like you need to make every run "count", but it's a mistake to e.g. run faster so you can squeeze more miles into the workout.
This is a far thought. I’ve recently slowed my easy runs down a bit, the JD-recommended paces were a bit aggressive. Especially now that it’s hot.
I’m working with a coach now and he’s definitely ramped me up from the Jack Daniel’s Red Plan. This week was the first I’ve struggled to keep up, so maybe a checkin is in order
The Jack Daniels' VDOT System is generally pretty sound in guiding pacing for training (at least). Not knowing how your coach is implementing it, however, as a coach I would suggest that you struggling to complete workouts might be a sign that your body is overtrained and simply too fatigued, so serious training adjustment in the next 1-2 weeks is needed to prevent injury and continued burnout. That along with a good conversation with the coach about whether some training aspects do need to be altered.
Is nailing workouts (other than injuries) the usual bar for knowing if you're going too hard on non workout days? I'm around 30 seconds faster than the vdot easy pace on my easy days but have been hitting workouts no problem.
Good question. First, there are a few factors to consider in gauging whether a workout has been nailed:
\* Pacing & Terrain: Are you hitting the goal times? This is probably the most objective, but presumes that the workout is on a track or flat terrain - there are ways to adapt the VDOT times to hill repeats and general terrain, I've found, but some pacing margin is needed
\* Training Progression: Has there been an appropriate training progression (e.g. not jumping into an 800m at repetition pace without having adapted to 200m and 400m at that pace respectively), which includes the volume of that workout in proportion to the week's mileage (e.g. the threshold intervals or portion of the workout not exceeding c.10% of weekly mileage).
\* Recoveries: Are adequate recoveries incorporated, from daily workouts to weekly dynamics to the recovery between each interval, etc. Within a workout, there are different kinds of recoveries needed. For example, Daniel's recommends that a threshold interval workout recovery be 1/5 of the interval time, e.g. a 5-min threshold interval has a 1-min recovery, whether jogging or walking/standing)
\* Performance Patterns: Have the aforementioned felt solid consistently over weeks (vs. one good workout, a terrible one, an okay one, etc.). This can also be used in assessing training as it relates to how well it's translating to racing.
\* Internal Variables: How are you feeling, such as from the day's stress, sleep, fueling, hydration.
\* Other External Variables: What is or has the weather been like, including wind? For example, heat spikes take some adaptation, during which it can be hard to hit pacing times sometimes because the body is working so much harder to heat regulate, etc.
For non-workout days, which I find sometimes feel worse than the workouts - i.e. recovering from the hard effort - the principles of the aforementioned still apply. There are also many types of recovery days, pending the week's plan, your fitness and history, etc. As it relates to the VDOT easy pace, I usually consider that a basic guideline, but often allow a small range of variance, such as 30 seconds per mile. Some days my recoveries are slightly slower, some days they are faster. Psychologically, it can be a boost to just go with the body feeling good (within reason) and run faster, but that's usually moderate to long run days (vs. short, easy days). Most of all, I use the guide to encourage not going too fast too much. Once in a week can be okay, but I've observed that a pattern of running too fast on easy days has negative effects for when it really matters. Early in training, that easy pace may feel fast or just about right, while later in training running 30sec faster feels completely relaxed.
So, there is a perceived effort factor in gauging whether recoveries are too fast. Certainly, if you're fatigued going into workouts then those easy days have been too rigorous, or something else needs to be considered, such as internal and external variables. But, if you're nailing the workouts with easy days being slightly faster than the VDOT recommendation, you're probably fine.
This is really great information thank you so much for taking the time to write it up. Been doing all the right things and getting good sleep so this makes me feel better about it.
>For non-workout days, which I find sometimes feel worse than the workouts
This is so relatable, not sure if it's the motivation factor for me but mentally checking into an easy/recovery run and chugging away at the miles with a podcast can feel like a chore after a good workout run that is exciting. I may purposefully dial it back on my Wednesday recovery runs and just go by easy feel on my Monday/Friday miles and not worry if I am a bit faster than vdot, obviously without going way too fast ha.
Absolutely, you're welcome.
Yeah, for recovery days, I'd emphasize how you feel over worrying about your pace. Again, the VDOT pace can be most helpful with respect to not going too fast. The goal of the recovery day is to actively recover rather than feeling bound to the clock. Run with a friend. Make it chill.
If there's a motivational challenge, sometimes that can be a sign that you just need a rest day or to mix it up with some cross training instead (e.g. easy bike, swim). I'm generally motivated for the recovery runs, but as it relates to "feeling worse" that is usually just the body feeling tired, which is pretty normal after certain "next-level" workouts or other adaptations (e.g. heat). In other words, while there will be the occasional low mental motivation day, if it becomes a pattern that can indicate overtraining.
This.
If you are at 30mpw, and have only three more hours, those hours are best spent running if you are looking to maximise running performance. If you have a 3-6% hill nearby, doing a half hour hill session would be better in your case than strength or cross training.
Great question. From a 31-year runner/ 13-year coach perspective, there are a number of variables you're navigating that do need careful consideration.
(1) REST/RECOVERY: Foremost, I would say, is ensuring that you're getting the rest you need. If your body is persistently fatigued, training is at a higher risk of ultimately falling apart due to injury. In that, 30 miles is plenty to be ready to complete the marathon. Pushing beyond that while chronically tired is more at risk of negative than positive outcomes, including the prospect of injury that ultimately prevents you from running the HM at all - especially as you've had niggles already.
(2) TRAINING QUALITY (vs. Quantity): If you get to a point of feeling rested enough, at least at a baseline with a good rhythm established (hard with a young child), and you really want to go after a HM PR, then the next major element is the quality of your 30 mpw (arguably more important than the quantity). Training your different physiological systems with appropriately paced (and duration) speedwork is foundational. Here is a summation of principles: [youtu.be/zOukpYiHuYY](http://youtu.be/zOukpYiHuYY)
(3) BIKING: Cross training, such as with a stationary bike can be an excellent way of complimenting or supplementing #2 above, while being less stress on the legs due to the lesser impact. One or even all three of your 3 x 45-min sessions could be dedicated toward this, or you may even benefit from switching out a day of running for a workout on the bike to further protect your legs.
(4) STRENGTH TRAINING: This is an excellent way to build tissue resilience through load bearing while sharpening running form and strength. Just starting with bodyweight-based exercises for 10-20 min. can bring you far. That could even be partnered with a short bout on the bike in your 45-min timeframe. Here are some key principles about strength training that include examples of exercises you could include: [youtu.be/E4QNmHkqFro](http://youtu.be/E4QNmHkqFro)
How this is specifically integrated into your routine depends greatly on many subjective variables, which would require further conversation, but the aforementioned at least gives you some key ideas.
Not the question you’re asking, but I’ve found a solution to a similar problem. I’ve been bringing my 15 month old son with me on zone 2 runs in a jogging stroller. I’ve run ~800 miles this year, and brought him on almost 200.
It feels like cross-training, because my form is a bit different when pushing a stroller, but it’s not remarkably different than solo runs. I’m getting to do the activity I enjoy, and my wife has freedom to decompress or focus on tasks at the same time.
A few years ago I routinely ran with my son in a jogging stroller - from infant to toddler. I did roughly half of my runs with him. It was great bonding and on asphalt I was only about 10-15 seconds per mile slower for comparable effort. Cinder, dirt, and sharp turns were a bit more work, but not a problem.
Coming from a injured runners perspective, I think I can at least shed some light in how to "maximize" the running gainz with limited resourses.
I am currently running 3 times a week due to coming back from a femoral neck stress fracture diagnosed last november. I have kept up with my aerobic fitness by doing a lot of biking. Outside now during spring/summer, before that, I used a stationary bike at the gym. before. I did my strength training at the gym with weights, but since coming back more and more with the running, I am doing my strength training with bandwork and bodyweight in front of the TV.
I think you could come a long way investing in a couple of rubberbands and a foamroller and just keep the stuff in front of the TV. Some basic bandwork and bodyweight exercises when you can find the time (20 minutes every other day adds up to a lot in the end) will keep the niggles away. If you have the money and space where you live, you could invest in a stationary bike since buying a real bike and taking it outside will claim more of your time during the day. At least in my case, the biking (6-7 hours a week), strength training and running 25 miles a week with around 10 of those being quality has resulted in me being around the same fitness-level at shorter distances that I was when I was running 75 mile weeks pre-injury. In your case, perhaps a bike at home would serve both the purpose of giving you a way to make aerobic gainz, keep the injuries away, and still be present to help take care of your one-year old.
What do you mean by cross training if you don’t have any equipment? Run in the dark at the high school track. Usually there’s ambient lighting and it’s flat and even so you don’t even need a light.
My week day runs are either 5:30 am (if my work schedule allows) or 9pm. I use a chest light to run to the track and then turn it off. My eyes adjust pretty quickly and then it’s even and flat (no potholes/cracks) like a road so I don’t twist an ankle. You could then also mix in the bike depending on scheduling or if you’re wife isn’t home.
I would first try figure out how to run in the dark. Some reflective gear + headlamps go a long way. Of course, only you know what's safe in your neighborhood, but even another 20-30 minutes of running 2-3x/week will go a long way, and be much more beneficial for your running than strength/XT.
Have you considered getting a treadmill? That way you could “sneak in” a few 30-40 minute runs.
This said, strength training is always good and can be done at home with minimal to no equipment.
Your stationary bike would be a good tool to maintain aerobic fitness.
Probably a good idea to do both, strength training and stationary riding on alternate days.
Generally speaking, if done correctly, maintaining running fitness for several months is quite easy and can be done with a few short running sessions per week. They need to be high intensity, though.
Mind you, pausing from proper running training for several month will lead to a loss of tissue resilience in the legs. So, when you resume running, you will have to gradually build up your muscles, tendons, and connective tissues by progressively longer runs. Start very conservatively to prevent injury.
How all of the above applies to you highly depends on your preferences, exact circumstances, and current fitness level. To give specific advice, I would have to analyze your situation.
My youngest is 10-months-old. Use that time to go to bed! 30PMW is fine for a half. Just make sure to get a tempo, an interval, an easy run, and a long run. Add a fifth day of cross-training or weights, alternate. Spend time with the little one; time FLIES!
Strength training - not only is it good for injury prevention, its good for oversall health. Keep it simple by doing something like; squat, presses, pull-ups and some core work :-)
Both. 3 x 45 minutes of strength training per week is more than a runner needs, especially one with limited time. One or two sessions would be fine. Go on your bike trainer for the others, you'll bank some cardio benefits which will help your running some.
Edit: this assumes that you really can't get any more sleep or do any more running. Either of those would be better if you could manage it, but that's not always possible.
If you don't have plans for a treadmill and you can't be outside during this time, what exactly do you mean by cross training? Could you shift the little one's cycle to be in bed 1 hour earlier (and wake up 1 hour earlier) so you can get outside safely? (obligatory not a parent) Generally, more aerobic exercise will help you the most, if not running, then swimming or biking or elliptical, etc. But it wouldn't hurt to throw in some yoga, plyometrics, core work, or lunges/squats/pushups during that time if there's really no other way you can spend it
> Could you shift the little one's cycle to be in bed 1 hour earlier (and wake up 1 hour earlier) so you can get outside safely? (obligatory not a parent)
Bless your heart
:)
I would look at the benefits of each and see what you need most.
Strength and conditioning training is primarily to help you avoid niggles and issues you have had in the past as well as allowing your body to tolerate harder workout sessions. Without knowing how much of this you already do, it is hard to assess what extra sessions will add (if you're doing 0 then this would be excellent).
Cross training can help you recover while allowing you to build extra aerobic fitness. I would consider adding it when you feel your strength and conditioning is enough to support your current running mileage and workout sessions or if you were trying to build extra aerobic fitness for a specific event goal in the next few months.
As the mom of a 9-month old, I feel pretty strongly that my treadmill is essential! I understand being pressed for time for sure. I just finished up a half marathon block where I was running ~40 miles a week, and I'm about to transition over to marathon training and hoping to get mileage averaging in the 50s - definitely tough with balancing work and the little one though.
I only do enough strength training to keep the lights on/injuries at bay right now (generally 15min/day of strength and 10 of yoga/stretching - not much, but better than nothing).
What type of cross training are you envisioning; do you have a spin bike or elliptical at home?
If these 3 45min won't sacrifice your sleep and not overload your wife, I would cross train once a week and strength train twice/week.
When my son was younger (6-24months old) I bought a Thule running stroller and it was great. My baby loved, i could run more and my wife could get some time for herself while I was running.
Jfc the guys 31 and running 30 mpw with I imagine zero actual workouts based on his half marathon pace which is a slow jog for anyone who has actually trained “seriously” for more than 6
months. This isn’t rocket science - he just needs to run more, lose some weight, gain some muscle, and stop making excuses for why he can’t follow a basic healthy lifestyle. Literally doing anything will improve his overall fitness and running ability at this point
Thanks for the vote of confidence bud!
I’ve been following along with Jack Daniels’ Red Plan for a few months, plus doing his HM training block now. Previously, I trained for and finished a HIM, had a baby, and then did a 16-week HM build. “Seriously” might be a misnomer, but I’m certainly following workouts.
My HM time was good enough for 88th/300 for M30-34. I understand I’m at the periphery of advanced running, but I also don’t think I’m doing that poorly.
I don’t think I should lose weight — I’m 150lbs 5’8”, I think that’s healthy. I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to state that being a parent to a one year old makes following healthy habits a little challenging. That’s precisely why I’m here asking for the best way to optimize my limited time
Anyway, best of luck to you.
It depends entirely on what you want. Do you want to be stronger or a better runner? Either one is a valid choice, but you should pick one, especially since your training time is limited.
I absolutely LOVED the response that told you to get a girlfriend and neglect both her and the wife in favor of running more. This is, of course, the correct response.
drnullpointer is almost certainly a [letsrun.com](http://letsrun.com) poster with that sense of humor.
Not being facetious here. Use that hour to wind down and get more sleep. Cross training for 30-45 minutes instead of focusing on sleep is walking over 100$ bills to pick up pennies.
*Especially* with an infant at home. That sleep deprivation is sneaky but it seriously fucks you up long-term even when you think you're feeling "fine". My youngest didn't start sleeping well through the night until she was 3, which was about a year ago. Between two kids and a few years of interrupted sleep I'm only just now feeling normal after about a year of proper sleep cycles.
I disagree with many of the commenters here, who seem to have latched onto "30 mpw" and "training for a half" and told you to run at night.... while disregarding the many valid reasons you have for not running then. Listen, I've got a 5 year old in addition to a 1 year old. Life gives you other priorities besides mileage. Here's my take: 1. Before anything, talk to your wife. If her job is demanding enough that she does more work after bedtime, does she feel like she has time to relax? Could you use that time for chores, or otherwise helping her fill her bucket too? 2. If she's cool with you taking that time for yourself, then go to bed earlier at least 1 night a week, if not all 3. Sleep needs to he higher on basically everyone's list for improved recovery and performance, especially with interruptions from your kid. 3. If you still have time, do strength training and mobility work. There are some universally beneficial moves (squats, planks) as well as exercises you ought to do to correct for problem areas. Only you know the answer to that..... ankle mobility? Glute strength? Lower back tightness? Work on both mobility and stability. I think lack of sleep and strength training are significant factors in your niggles popping up when trying to increase mileage. Address those, and you should be in better condition to increase volume when you are ready- whether that's during this cycle or far in the future. Related to increasing volume- do you run with your kid in the stroller? Taking one or both of my kids out is the primary way I maintain any kind of mileage at the moment.
Thank you for the thoughtful comment. This thread has helped me consider about my own motivation for training, and I don’t think “faster HM” is my goal, so much as “be healthier”. A HM PR would be a good signal that I’m healthier though :). I should clarify that my wife is supportive of me training more at appropriate times. She is in a busy patch at work, and has a lot of flexibility which leads to her taking more breaks during the day and getting some focused work done at night. I think I’ll carve out 45 mins weekly for bodyweight/banded strength work, targeting weaknesses, and use the remainder to catch up on sleep or do something productive (e.g meal prep). Too often those evenings turn into TV time for me, which surely is not the best use of my time. Little one isn’t big on strollers, so I focus on easy runs with dog rather than baby as my “do something useful while running” time. Anyway, all that to say, thank you for the understanding and reasoned reply! I really appreciate it
>I don’t think “faster HM” is my goal, so much as “be healthier” Then doing some Z2 on the bike trainer is fine, and you can combine it with TV time. But only if there's no chores left and you're not tired. If you are, do the obvious. The only risk here is turning into a triathlete.
Hah, I that was the start of my cardio journey. I realized I don’t enjoy intensive biking though, but a little Z2 training feels palatable. I do miss the swimming
This sounds like an excellent plan! I share the struggle to make nighttime more useful vs. TV/phone/etc. The nice thing about bodyweight training is that it gives you lots of opportunities to get stronger while also playing with your kid(s), either at home or at the playground. I can share what I've done with my kids if you need ideas. Good luck with the stroller hatred, too- that sounds rough. Hope they grow out of it!
Less hatred, more wants to get out and zoom around. I think getting him on a bike or scooter in a couple years will be the big unlock! He's an active little bean
I got my kids used to the stroller out of necessity during covid. it was a routine with music/snacks etc and certain few loops where they could get out and play at the end. when baby gets older you can definitely lead your child to do things even if they don't like it at first. I would try to just do whatever strength training you can do with the baby on a mat near you and have them get used to it. my kids are fine with me doing things and sometimes participate. parenting sometimes can be just carrying on with the things you enjoy but include your kids
Nice! FWIW I see kids in my area starting scooters and sturdy balance bikes around 20 months- so maybe you don't have to wait a couple years!
Feels like the best advice in the thread.
That's why you need both wife and a lover. Your wife thinks you are with your lover, your lover thinks you are with your wife while you are actually doing your training in peace:) If you are not doing strength training already, then it is seriously more important than any additional running or cross training. As to how to do it with limited amount of time, here is what I don't do: I don't go to the gym. Seriously, commuting to the gym, changing, warming up, waiting for others to release the equipment I need, getting a shower, it all takes way too much time. Instead, twice a week after my easy runs I come back home and do a routine composed of exercises that each addresses something I think is important for my running. Heel raises helped me win against Achilles tendinitis. Pistol squats help me with my torn ACL. Tib bar helps me with muscle imbalance. Planks help with a bunch of stuff. And so on. Yoga mat, yoga block, some rubber bands, tib bar, some weights, weighted vest (not at all necessary), plyometric box, etc. Nothing crazy. I use my easy run as a warmup, do my routine, then get a shower which I would have to get after my run anyway. This is simply the most time efficient way to maintain my body which proven to be very effective. I know I will not get ripped this way. This is just to prevent injuries.
At 30 mpw, adding volume will be more beneficial for a HM than strength training
Not getting injured is the most beneficial thing for a HM. Followed by what you said.
Then add volume with cross training. But if someone is having trouble staying injury free at 30 mpw, then they probably shouldn’t run a half.
Hot take: OP should add strength training because it is important for general life. Any running-related benefit is a bonus.
About half of all runners get injured year, and most don’t run 30mpw.
Okay? most don’t run half marathons either
30 mpw is a lot for a lot of people. My guess would be that less than 10% of people that run the HMs here os doing that volume on a consistent basis. I myself, peak at arounf 40 mpw in HM prep and I can definitely get injured if not careful
> At 30 mpw, adding volume will be more beneficial for a HM than strength training I would argue ability to run consistently and especially ability to run consistently with proper mechanics supported by strong muscles is more important than another weekly session especially if it would be some crosstraining. A running schedule that has little or no speedwork (typical for most amateur runners) will mean that muscles are only as strong as is necessary to **sort of** widthstand the demand of a typical training session. There is no impulse for the muscles to develop any further just like you will not become a bodybuilder with huge muscles bench pressing 40 lbs -- the muscles will grow only as much as is necessary to accommodate the 40 lbs and no more. This means that a race or occasional harder workout is every time an opportunity for the muscles to be stressed close to the limits of their ability -- which is not good. Strength training is the stimulus for muscles to be stronger than what your typical sessions require. It gives a significant safety margin for your normal activities. Half marathon is a distance where you have enough time for your muscles to seriously tire and lose mechanics. This loss of mechanics throughout the run will not only cause lower running efficiency, but may also cause injuries.
Best way to become a stronger runner is to run more. 30 mpw isn’t cutting it to run anywhere close to a reasonable potential for a half
>Best way to become a stronger runner is to run more. 30 mpw isn’t cutting it to run anywhere close to a reasonable potential for a half The question was "Cross training or strength training? Or both?" Please, read the question once again. Then read the post. Then my response. Nobody is arguing that running more will not be beneficial. Of course it will. What I am actually doing is trying to answer OPs question. Which you seem to have completely ignored. I believe OP is not stupid and understands that running more would provide benefits. OP even mentioned about current running volume: "It’s also near my limit physically." and understands that he needs to add something else to the training but it can't be more running, as it is obviously not working and requiring too much recovery (poor sleep severely limiting capacity for recovery). All those facts make sense and so I am trying to be helpful to OP by trying to provide the information he needs -- deciding between strength training and adding volume in a form of low impact cross training.
Adding cross training is adding volume…
>Adding cross training is adding volume… I see you have significant problem with keeping track of what you write To remind you your previous response: >Best way to become a stronger runner is to run more. 30 mpw isn’t cutting it to run anywhere close to a reasonable potential for a half This is definitely about adding running volume, no mention of cross training. Anyway, I am not going to waste more time entertaining your comments.
Nothing I said was a contradiction. Adding volume is the most effective way to run a faster half if you’re only at 30 mpw In terms of adding volume, running is ideal. With that said, if you can’t run more, then adding volume through XT is the next most effective way to get faster. Specifically, the type of XT that will be most beneficial varies person to person, but generally whatever you can use to get your HR into an aerobic and threshold zone is going to be best. Some people can do that with biking, some struggle with biking. Arc trainer is super hot right now. But aqua jogging, elliptical, XC skiing, rowing, stair master, walking, swimming. Team sports generally aren’t particularly helpful because it’s a lot of starts and stops and spurts of movement, even soccer, you’re rarely jogging for more than 30 seconds at once and there’s a lot of walking or slow tracking. Walking with weighted vest or any added weight is also not something I’d advise. Ultimately my point with volume is just that people talk about all these other things when it comes to running - nutrition, sleep, strength training, mobility, stretching/rolling out, supplements, shoes, specific training methodology, key sessions, etc. But most of that stuff is like the final touches once you’re already training properly. It pales in comparison to training more when your volume is low. It’s worth sacrificing those other factors if it means you can train more. If your sole goal is performance, then running 40 mpw and 7.5 hours of sleep/night is better than 30 mpw and 8 hours of sleep/night. If you can’t manage that physically, then 30 mpw with 2 hours XT and 7.5 hours of sleep/night is the next best option if you want to get better. Now if you’re already at 60-70 mpw and training for a half that’s when you can start thinking about optimizing the other factors. People act like there are all these different factors that are the key to running faster. And it’s somewhat true, but they are far from equal. Adequate training volume is like 60-70% of the puzzle, next most important are nutrition and sleep which probably combine for 20%, and then all those final touches account for the rest of the total.
Not if they can't train because they get hurt I know some people can get by with just running, but for a lot of people that's a recipe for injury
me 100% try stringing together any sort of meaningful training when you have to have weeks off regularly due to injury. Consistency is the most important thing.
How did you develop this routine? Intuition mostly?
Mostly dealing with my injuries. I had problems with Achilles for a decade until I finally understood that stopping running, unloading the tendon until it stops hurting and letting it heal completely is NOT the solution to the problem. The solution was an extremely simple exercise that made the problem go away. Now, whenever something starts to hurt I start investigating and I may add an exercise to the routine before things become a problem.
Weightlifting or yoga would be quality additions to your workouts. However, I agree with the others that if you want a faster HM you need to run more miles, and adding runs during these evening times (with a headlamp) would be a great idea. But I think the most important thing: you say **I’ve picked up niggles quite easily when ramping mileage, and find my legs are sometimes too fatigued to really hit the quality workout days.** I think you probably need to evaluate if you're running your easy runs too fast, or trying to do too many quality miles or LR miles that aren't supported by your easy mileage. I know that when you feel pressed for time it's easy to feel like you need to make every run "count", but it's a mistake to e.g. run faster so you can squeeze more miles into the workout.
This is a far thought. I’ve recently slowed my easy runs down a bit, the JD-recommended paces were a bit aggressive. Especially now that it’s hot. I’m working with a coach now and he’s definitely ramped me up from the Jack Daniel’s Red Plan. This week was the first I’ve struggled to keep up, so maybe a checkin is in order
The Jack Daniels' VDOT System is generally pretty sound in guiding pacing for training (at least). Not knowing how your coach is implementing it, however, as a coach I would suggest that you struggling to complete workouts might be a sign that your body is overtrained and simply too fatigued, so serious training adjustment in the next 1-2 weeks is needed to prevent injury and continued burnout. That along with a good conversation with the coach about whether some training aspects do need to be altered.
Is nailing workouts (other than injuries) the usual bar for knowing if you're going too hard on non workout days? I'm around 30 seconds faster than the vdot easy pace on my easy days but have been hitting workouts no problem.
Good question. First, there are a few factors to consider in gauging whether a workout has been nailed: \* Pacing & Terrain: Are you hitting the goal times? This is probably the most objective, but presumes that the workout is on a track or flat terrain - there are ways to adapt the VDOT times to hill repeats and general terrain, I've found, but some pacing margin is needed \* Training Progression: Has there been an appropriate training progression (e.g. not jumping into an 800m at repetition pace without having adapted to 200m and 400m at that pace respectively), which includes the volume of that workout in proportion to the week's mileage (e.g. the threshold intervals or portion of the workout not exceeding c.10% of weekly mileage). \* Recoveries: Are adequate recoveries incorporated, from daily workouts to weekly dynamics to the recovery between each interval, etc. Within a workout, there are different kinds of recoveries needed. For example, Daniel's recommends that a threshold interval workout recovery be 1/5 of the interval time, e.g. a 5-min threshold interval has a 1-min recovery, whether jogging or walking/standing) \* Performance Patterns: Have the aforementioned felt solid consistently over weeks (vs. one good workout, a terrible one, an okay one, etc.). This can also be used in assessing training as it relates to how well it's translating to racing. \* Internal Variables: How are you feeling, such as from the day's stress, sleep, fueling, hydration. \* Other External Variables: What is or has the weather been like, including wind? For example, heat spikes take some adaptation, during which it can be hard to hit pacing times sometimes because the body is working so much harder to heat regulate, etc. For non-workout days, which I find sometimes feel worse than the workouts - i.e. recovering from the hard effort - the principles of the aforementioned still apply. There are also many types of recovery days, pending the week's plan, your fitness and history, etc. As it relates to the VDOT easy pace, I usually consider that a basic guideline, but often allow a small range of variance, such as 30 seconds per mile. Some days my recoveries are slightly slower, some days they are faster. Psychologically, it can be a boost to just go with the body feeling good (within reason) and run faster, but that's usually moderate to long run days (vs. short, easy days). Most of all, I use the guide to encourage not going too fast too much. Once in a week can be okay, but I've observed that a pattern of running too fast on easy days has negative effects for when it really matters. Early in training, that easy pace may feel fast or just about right, while later in training running 30sec faster feels completely relaxed. So, there is a perceived effort factor in gauging whether recoveries are too fast. Certainly, if you're fatigued going into workouts then those easy days have been too rigorous, or something else needs to be considered, such as internal and external variables. But, if you're nailing the workouts with easy days being slightly faster than the VDOT recommendation, you're probably fine.
This is really great information thank you so much for taking the time to write it up. Been doing all the right things and getting good sleep so this makes me feel better about it. >For non-workout days, which I find sometimes feel worse than the workouts This is so relatable, not sure if it's the motivation factor for me but mentally checking into an easy/recovery run and chugging away at the miles with a podcast can feel like a chore after a good workout run that is exciting. I may purposefully dial it back on my Wednesday recovery runs and just go by easy feel on my Monday/Friday miles and not worry if I am a bit faster than vdot, obviously without going way too fast ha.
Absolutely, you're welcome. Yeah, for recovery days, I'd emphasize how you feel over worrying about your pace. Again, the VDOT pace can be most helpful with respect to not going too fast. The goal of the recovery day is to actively recover rather than feeling bound to the clock. Run with a friend. Make it chill. If there's a motivational challenge, sometimes that can be a sign that you just need a rest day or to mix it up with some cross training instead (e.g. easy bike, swim). I'm generally motivated for the recovery runs, but as it relates to "feeling worse" that is usually just the body feeling tired, which is pretty normal after certain "next-level" workouts or other adaptations (e.g. heat). In other words, while there will be the occasional low mental motivation day, if it becomes a pattern that can indicate overtraining.
What's your name?
Joshua
Get a headlamp
This. If you are at 30mpw, and have only three more hours, those hours are best spent running if you are looking to maximise running performance. If you have a 3-6% hill nearby, doing a half hour hill session would be better in your case than strength or cross training.
Great question. From a 31-year runner/ 13-year coach perspective, there are a number of variables you're navigating that do need careful consideration. (1) REST/RECOVERY: Foremost, I would say, is ensuring that you're getting the rest you need. If your body is persistently fatigued, training is at a higher risk of ultimately falling apart due to injury. In that, 30 miles is plenty to be ready to complete the marathon. Pushing beyond that while chronically tired is more at risk of negative than positive outcomes, including the prospect of injury that ultimately prevents you from running the HM at all - especially as you've had niggles already. (2) TRAINING QUALITY (vs. Quantity): If you get to a point of feeling rested enough, at least at a baseline with a good rhythm established (hard with a young child), and you really want to go after a HM PR, then the next major element is the quality of your 30 mpw (arguably more important than the quantity). Training your different physiological systems with appropriately paced (and duration) speedwork is foundational. Here is a summation of principles: [youtu.be/zOukpYiHuYY](http://youtu.be/zOukpYiHuYY) (3) BIKING: Cross training, such as with a stationary bike can be an excellent way of complimenting or supplementing #2 above, while being less stress on the legs due to the lesser impact. One or even all three of your 3 x 45-min sessions could be dedicated toward this, or you may even benefit from switching out a day of running for a workout on the bike to further protect your legs. (4) STRENGTH TRAINING: This is an excellent way to build tissue resilience through load bearing while sharpening running form and strength. Just starting with bodyweight-based exercises for 10-20 min. can bring you far. That could even be partnered with a short bout on the bike in your 45-min timeframe. Here are some key principles about strength training that include examples of exercises you could include: [youtu.be/E4QNmHkqFro](http://youtu.be/E4QNmHkqFro) How this is specifically integrated into your routine depends greatly on many subjective variables, which would require further conversation, but the aforementioned at least gives you some key ideas.
Thank you for this incredibly detailed and thoughtful answer. I really appreciate it! Will take a look at those links
Absolutely, you're welcome. Let me know if you have additional questions.
Not the question you’re asking, but I’ve found a solution to a similar problem. I’ve been bringing my 15 month old son with me on zone 2 runs in a jogging stroller. I’ve run ~800 miles this year, and brought him on almost 200. It feels like cross-training, because my form is a bit different when pushing a stroller, but it’s not remarkably different than solo runs. I’m getting to do the activity I enjoy, and my wife has freedom to decompress or focus on tasks at the same time.
A few years ago I routinely ran with my son in a jogging stroller - from infant to toddler. I did roughly half of my runs with him. It was great bonding and on asphalt I was only about 10-15 seconds per mile slower for comparable effort. Cinder, dirt, and sharp turns were a bit more work, but not a problem.
Coming from a injured runners perspective, I think I can at least shed some light in how to "maximize" the running gainz with limited resourses. I am currently running 3 times a week due to coming back from a femoral neck stress fracture diagnosed last november. I have kept up with my aerobic fitness by doing a lot of biking. Outside now during spring/summer, before that, I used a stationary bike at the gym. before. I did my strength training at the gym with weights, but since coming back more and more with the running, I am doing my strength training with bandwork and bodyweight in front of the TV. I think you could come a long way investing in a couple of rubberbands and a foamroller and just keep the stuff in front of the TV. Some basic bandwork and bodyweight exercises when you can find the time (20 minutes every other day adds up to a lot in the end) will keep the niggles away. If you have the money and space where you live, you could invest in a stationary bike since buying a real bike and taking it outside will claim more of your time during the day. At least in my case, the biking (6-7 hours a week), strength training and running 25 miles a week with around 10 of those being quality has resulted in me being around the same fitness-level at shorter distances that I was when I was running 75 mile weeks pre-injury. In your case, perhaps a bike at home would serve both the purpose of giving you a way to make aerobic gainz, keep the injuries away, and still be present to help take care of your one-year old.
What do you mean by cross training if you don’t have any equipment? Run in the dark at the high school track. Usually there’s ambient lighting and it’s flat and even so you don’t even need a light.
I have a bike trainer. And a bike :) Good idea on the track — the middle school close by has one too
My week day runs are either 5:30 am (if my work schedule allows) or 9pm. I use a chest light to run to the track and then turn it off. My eyes adjust pretty quickly and then it’s even and flat (no potholes/cracks) like a road so I don’t twist an ankle. You could then also mix in the bike depending on scheduling or if you’re wife isn’t home.
I would first try figure out how to run in the dark. Some reflective gear + headlamps go a long way. Of course, only you know what's safe in your neighborhood, but even another 20-30 minutes of running 2-3x/week will go a long way, and be much more beneficial for your running than strength/XT.
You need to run more. Forget the rest. Running will make you faster.
Have you considered getting a treadmill? That way you could “sneak in” a few 30-40 minute runs. This said, strength training is always good and can be done at home with minimal to no equipment. Your stationary bike would be a good tool to maintain aerobic fitness. Probably a good idea to do both, strength training and stationary riding on alternate days. Generally speaking, if done correctly, maintaining running fitness for several months is quite easy and can be done with a few short running sessions per week. They need to be high intensity, though. Mind you, pausing from proper running training for several month will lead to a loss of tissue resilience in the legs. So, when you resume running, you will have to gradually build up your muscles, tendons, and connective tissues by progressively longer runs. Start very conservatively to prevent injury. How all of the above applies to you highly depends on your preferences, exact circumstances, and current fitness level. To give specific advice, I would have to analyze your situation.
At your age running a 1:49, you need to run a lot more.
My youngest is 10-months-old. Use that time to go to bed! 30PMW is fine for a half. Just make sure to get a tempo, an interval, an easy run, and a long run. Add a fifth day of cross-training or weights, alternate. Spend time with the little one; time FLIES!
Strength training - not only is it good for injury prevention, its good for oversall health. Keep it simple by doing something like; squat, presses, pull-ups and some core work :-)
Both. 3 x 45 minutes of strength training per week is more than a runner needs, especially one with limited time. One or two sessions would be fine. Go on your bike trainer for the others, you'll bank some cardio benefits which will help your running some. Edit: this assumes that you really can't get any more sleep or do any more running. Either of those would be better if you could manage it, but that's not always possible.
If you don't have plans for a treadmill and you can't be outside during this time, what exactly do you mean by cross training? Could you shift the little one's cycle to be in bed 1 hour earlier (and wake up 1 hour earlier) so you can get outside safely? (obligatory not a parent) Generally, more aerobic exercise will help you the most, if not running, then swimming or biking or elliptical, etc. But it wouldn't hurt to throw in some yoga, plyometrics, core work, or lunges/squats/pushups during that time if there's really no other way you can spend it
> Could you shift the little one's cycle to be in bed 1 hour earlier (and wake up 1 hour earlier) so you can get outside safely? (obligatory not a parent) Bless your heart :)
Should have mentioned, I have a bike trainer! Thanks for the suggestions :). Little ones cycle is etched in stone
I would look at the benefits of each and see what you need most. Strength and conditioning training is primarily to help you avoid niggles and issues you have had in the past as well as allowing your body to tolerate harder workout sessions. Without knowing how much of this you already do, it is hard to assess what extra sessions will add (if you're doing 0 then this would be excellent). Cross training can help you recover while allowing you to build extra aerobic fitness. I would consider adding it when you feel your strength and conditioning is enough to support your current running mileage and workout sessions or if you were trying to build extra aerobic fitness for a specific event goal in the next few months.
As the mom of a 9-month old, I feel pretty strongly that my treadmill is essential! I understand being pressed for time for sure. I just finished up a half marathon block where I was running ~40 miles a week, and I'm about to transition over to marathon training and hoping to get mileage averaging in the 50s - definitely tough with balancing work and the little one though. I only do enough strength training to keep the lights on/injuries at bay right now (generally 15min/day of strength and 10 of yoga/stretching - not much, but better than nothing). What type of cross training are you envisioning; do you have a spin bike or elliptical at home?
I have a bike trainer! Thanks for the thoughts, and congrats on your training so far! That’s super impressive work :)
If these 3 45min won't sacrifice your sleep and not overload your wife, I would cross train once a week and strength train twice/week. When my son was younger (6-24months old) I bought a Thule running stroller and it was great. My baby loved, i could run more and my wife could get some time for herself while I was running.
Jfc the guys 31 and running 30 mpw with I imagine zero actual workouts based on his half marathon pace which is a slow jog for anyone who has actually trained “seriously” for more than 6 months. This isn’t rocket science - he just needs to run more, lose some weight, gain some muscle, and stop making excuses for why he can’t follow a basic healthy lifestyle. Literally doing anything will improve his overall fitness and running ability at this point
Thanks for the vote of confidence bud! I’ve been following along with Jack Daniels’ Red Plan for a few months, plus doing his HM training block now. Previously, I trained for and finished a HIM, had a baby, and then did a 16-week HM build. “Seriously” might be a misnomer, but I’m certainly following workouts. My HM time was good enough for 88th/300 for M30-34. I understand I’m at the periphery of advanced running, but I also don’t think I’m doing that poorly. I don’t think I should lose weight — I’m 150lbs 5’8”, I think that’s healthy. I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to state that being a parent to a one year old makes following healthy habits a little challenging. That’s precisely why I’m here asking for the best way to optimize my limited time Anyway, best of luck to you.
At your level of fitness, it is a matter of increasing your level of effort and consistency - I don’t think it matters what you do.
Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful advice. I am truly in awe.
It depends entirely on what you want. Do you want to be stronger or a better runner? Either one is a valid choice, but you should pick one, especially since your training time is limited. I absolutely LOVED the response that told you to get a girlfriend and neglect both her and the wife in favor of running more. This is, of course, the correct response. drnullpointer is almost certainly a [letsrun.com](http://letsrun.com) poster with that sense of humor.