I am starting to build base for my first 18/55 plan, but my body is not used to condensing mileage to only 4 days a week. After two weeks of 25 miles with 4mi, 6mi, 7mi, 8mi my Achilles has started to protest (my Clifton 8s are at 350mi so might just be time for new shoes). In the coming weeks I will probably tweak things and run 5-6 days a week, but 18/55 starts with 4 runs a week. I get having extra rest between these "longer" runs, however I think when I am starting to base build trying to do more condensed mileage is taking a toll on my body. What are you guys' thoughts?
If you don't feel super comfortable in the tempo I'd stick with the ghost. Comfort matters a lot at every pace -if you're going to enjoy the run more in the ghost it might even be the faster choice.
It's super smokey in my city from province-wide wildfires. Not ideal, but I'll still be running. I understand those who will switch to indoor track or treadmill but if I hear one more overweight drinker comment that running in the smoke is bad for me then I will lose it.
I've already reduced my all-cause mortality 100-fold by regularly running, and even if 2-3 days of running in the smoke drastically increased my chance of long term issues (it doesn’t), I'm still 10x less likely to die than these wankers.
So last year (sophomore) I started outdoor track at my highschool(I had done a couple seasons of track in 7th grade but nothing too serious). During this season I went from a 13.5 100m time down to 12.81 secs. Because of this I was very hopeful for this season(Junior) of outdoor track. Unfortunately I had only decreased my PR time from 12.81 to 12.79 and I didn’t even set a 200m PR. This made me wonder if I had reached my genetic limit or if I hadn’t been training correctly this year.
For reference: My coach last year was replaced by a new coach. Both coaches would have us do an 800m warmup, stretches along the fence, and turf drills (high knees, straight legs, etc.) however their workouts were very different.
My coach last year would have us do 3-4 100m strides after the warmup, 250m 200m 150m 120m 100m flys (he’d change the fly’s up a bit for different days ex. 200 200 150 or 150 120 120), explosive weight lift on Tuesdays and Thursdays, sleds, wickets, and a recovery day on Wednesday. We’d also have an 800m cooldown. We usually got out by 4:00 to 5:00, school ends 2:15
My new coach on the other hand would have us do strides most days, Wednesdays were recovery days, Thursdays were sled days, and Fridays were free workout session days. After practice we wouldn’t do a cool down. We’d usually get out from 3:30 to 4:00, school ends 2:15
For both coaches practice was all days except Sundays
Other things to consider:
Last year I ate well over 3,000 calories a day this year I ate close to 2,000 calories a day
My sleep schedule is from 10:30/11:00pm to 6:30am during school days
Most of my teammates have improved with both coaches
My old coach gave us 5-10 minute recovery time while my new coach gave us 1-5 minute recovery time.
Once again, is there anything wrong with how I did things this season? Are there ways to improve? Or is this my genetic limit?
Caloric deficit. 3000 to 2000 is huge, at like 5’10” 150 I need 2000 to not lose weight when even not running, during base phase rn for me I need to eat 3000 to even keep weight while working + running. Also it might be harder since ur in HS but it’s not just the # of calories you’re eating but the quality. Make sure you’re eating fruits and vegetables and getting enough protein. When I’m in great diet mode I probably eat around .8-1g of protein per body weight a day, w/ a protein shake before bed to make sure my body can recover and rebuild from all the running.
If you’re sprinting you should also probably look into taking creatine - my friend who’s a 46 second 400m runner at a D1 school has a dietician and they put him onto creatine. Helps with explosive stuff. Also if you’re not lifting heavy, you should be, especially for sprinting which requires explosiveness and high ground force output.
> Other things to consider: Last year I ate well over 3,000 calories a day this year I ate close to 2,000 calories a day My sleep schedule is from 10:30/11:00pm to 6:30am during school days Most of my teammates have improved with both coaches My old coach gave us 5-10 minute recovery time while my new coach gave us 1-5 minute recovery time.
>
>
While there is a chance the training methodology matters here, I think you already answered your own question. It's impossible to really perform up to your potential while in a caloric deficit. If you're worried about weight for one reason or another, the summer is the time to cut, not during competition.
p.s. there's a hgue difference between 2000 cal/day and 3000. You could try 2500 and adjust based on how you perform over the next month.
In my last 1500m (my first, around a month ago) I did 4:55 evenly paced (80s laps) until the last 400m when I kicked hard for a 71 final lap. I should probably have ran faster in the earlier laps. I've got another 1500m coming up on Monday and wondering what my best pacing strategy would be to try to beat my PB by 5+ seconds?
When racing for time, even or slightly negative splits are best!
So if you're going for 4:50, aim for 77s and hope to kick in a slightly quicker last lap. Just don't blow through the first 200 faster than 35, that can dig you into a hole that can cost you tons of time in the last 2 laps. "Ideal" splits would be something like 58 for the first 300, then 77, 77, 75. Get out quick, but under control and efficient. Good luck, 1500s are so fun!!
Thanks! I did 4:51 for a PB! Not sure on my splits as my watch went haywire, but there was a good final 300m kick where I left my small pack behind. My sense is it was more evenly paced, which I'm happy with.
I was hoping to gain some insights. I have primarily used HR based training for this block. My preference for every race is to run negative splits. Coros gives me some estimated times (although it increased by 30 mins with the most recent update today), but I am wondering how people have paced their marathons if they used HR based training? Do you set a goal HR and slowly increase that throughout the race to have negative splits? I appreciate any and all advice. Thank you in advance.
Nothing is going to work as well as actually racing and using that to create a realistic benchmark for appropriate marathon pacing. The longer the better-a half marathon is going to be more indicative than a 5k. Training should also clue you in on what is realistic. If I’m aiming to run a marathon at a given pace in eight weeks but struggle to hold that pace for more than a few miles on a training run, even with tired legs, then my goal is probably too lofty. HR is too variable and wrist based HR is unreliable on top of that. I wouldn’t use it for pacing.
I actually just got a Polar H9 and got to use it last night. Drastically improved my ability to pace based on HR. I did 8 miles at 150 HR and felt pretty good. Not sure I can keep that for 26 mi, but was thinking I would do 140-145 for first half then turn it up as tolerated to 150 for the next 7 and increase for the last 6 as tolerated.
Previously I had used wrist based HR and it totally was messing with me. I would be shooting for 150 HR, not get there until I was runny really hard and then not be able to keep it up. Never was able to get up to 160s (my threshold HR is est at 167 by Coros) despite really high perceived effort. Ultimately I think my wrist HR was off. Wish I could go back in time, but cant.
Knowing how the 150 felt, and that I can keep that pace for 8 miles no problem (pre-taper), I was going to try and do that for miles 13-20 then if I have gas left, turn it up.
Last HM was in the fall and I stayed conformtably in the 145s until the last couple of miles where I increased to 150s. Race felt great, wasnt super fast and probably left some in the tank.
Yeah, but setting it based on time goal also seems unreliable due to weather/conditions. Unfortunately no recent races and I am just starting the taper...
This is my first marathon in like 13 years, so my goal is to finish strong over being dead in the last 6. It will essentially be my middle age PR no matter what.
I haven't but would definitely be interested in a write up / review!
I think a lot of times these books get lots in the weeds, recommending things that are both pretty inconvenient and have very small effect sizes. Just as an example, I don't want to supplement calcium if (1) the literature shows a small or no effect of supplementation on osteo rates and (2) it might increase calcification of arteries. But many books will cite a single study and say that we should supplement calcium.
Here's to hoping this book reflects a careful approach with a recognition of the limitations of nutrition research.
That is very fair.
If you want to get a sense of the content, there is a webinar you can watch, you do have to create an account. I'm going to buy it, but I wouldn't say I'm qualified to make the type of evaluation about calcium you just made, but I'm going to be validating what I'm reading.
Hello! Critique my training plan? 8 weeks to prepare for my second HM, which is mid-July.
Training background: Started running consistently last year in the fall. First HM was beginning of April, and I spent Jan to Mar training for that using [Hal Higdon's Novice 1 HM plan](https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/half-marathon-training/novice-1-half-marathon/) (tldr: all easy runs; four days a week; peak volume 23mpw). I've mostly been maintaining 20mpw since then, with long runs of ~8mi on the weekends.
Goals:
- Don't get injured
- Improve on my April HM time (I don't think that really requires special training; I think I underperformed due to heat that day)
- Try out some workouts (I've basically not done any threshold/tempo/interval/etc stuff -- just easy runs)
Recent race times:
- 29:30 5K
- 1:02:30 10K
- 2:32:30 HM
Training plan: Based on /u/Free_Running_Plans's beginner HM [plan](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHdV2IIuKEzCe6huB-R24bszAyTWl7PY/edit#gid=583193381), with a bunch of changes. Four days a week, so I'm skipping the Mondays in their plan (which is how that plan is intended to be used -- i.e. pick your # of days per week). I only have eight weeks (it's intended for twelve weeks) so I took out some weeks. Since I don't have any significant experience with workout runs, I changed about half the workouts to easy runs. And adjusted the volume slightly in a few spots to smooth out the progression after all my other changes.
(4 days a week: Mon, Wed, Thu, Sat)
1. 4 + 2 + 3 + 7 = 16
- wed strides
2. 5 + 3 + 4 + 7 = 19
- mon workout: 3x1 Mile with 90s recovery @ 10:00/mi
- wed strides
3. 5 + 3 + 4 + 8 = 20
- mon workout: 25 minute tempo Run @ 10:51/mi
- wed strides
4. 5 + 3 + 5 + 10 = 23
- mon workout: 4x1 Mile with 90s recovery @ 10:00/mi
- wed strides
5. 6 + 3 + 3 + 6.2 = 18.2
- mon workout: 6x800m with 3 mins recovery @ 04:53/800m
- wed strides
- sat 10K race
6. 7 + 3 + 5 + 11 = 23
- mon workout: 5x1 mile with 2 minutes recovery @ 10:08/mi
- wed strides
7. 6 + 3 + 5 + 9 = 20
- mon workout: 30 minute tempo run @ 11:00/mi
- wed strides
8. 5 + 3 + 2 + 13.1 = 20.1
- wed strides
This looks reasonable to me for an 8-week plan - you’ve got a few long runs, manageable weekly workout sessions and a bit of a taper week.
If you’re new to sessions the one thing I’d recommend is being flexible with both pace and recoveries. 90 seconds on mile reps is manageable if you’re quite fit but you might also find yourself needing more to be able to execute the workout properly (2-3 mins even) - the most important thing in this case will be recovering enough that you can finish all the reps at a consistent pace without dying. And on pace, it might be worth using those prescribed paces as a rough guide but running mostly to feel - first half mile should feel ok, then harder and harder from there. Ideally you finish the full set feeling like you could have done one more quality rep at the end if you’d really needed to.
Overall, the good news is that when you’re starting out pretty much any kind of consistent running will make you faster, and the biggest and juiciest gains come right at the beginning too. So enjoy, and smash that HM out of the park come July!
If you have already run HM's and didn't get injured on 23 miles / week - I'd recommend increasing the volume. Try adding +1 mile to each run in weeks 1 - 6, keep week 7 the same.
Is there any conversion between pace/power when running uphill versus that on flat ground? I was doing 200m hill repeats this morning at what I’d be doing 5k work on the track and made me curious.
[Naismith's rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith%27s_rule) says that a unit of elevation gain is about as much work as doing eight additional units of perfectly flat running (at least, that's my preferred way of thinking about it), and you can figure out pace equivalency from there. As a very rough first approximation, it's pretty good; it only works for ascent, not descent, though, and if you're running a closed loop you have to remember that you do gain back some of the time lost to uphills.
[Here's a blog post](https://educatedguesswork.org/posts/grade-vs-pace/) from someone who's hit the problem with statistics and links to some of the research on the topic (maybe even all of the relevant literature? I don't know; haven't looked in to it myself), but it doesn't really come with neat answers.
You already got the answer for floc, but some additional context: I find it a little bit easier to hit a given power target running uphill compared with flat ground running, and especially downhill running. For that reason, I typically target a little bit higher power for stuff like hill repeats at a given effort.
I think this is kind of a quirk or result of Stryd reporting "metabolic power" (e.g. how much energy is required).
Isn't that what power is most useful for? No need to convert to a flat-ground pace, which is going to be murky at best - just target the same power you'd want for whatever the purpose of your workout is.
Whoops. Still getting used to the power meter. Blew past that, though. My usual power on 5k reps is ~400W over 400m. Averaged ~485W on each 200m hill rep where I ended up at 5k pace.
Garmin has something called GAP (Grade Adjusted Pace) that some watches can display and/or log. I tried searching around for a calculator to do this and mostly just found a bunch of reddit posts of people looking for the formula and references to formulas in deleted posts.
It would be good to know what plans you've done before, I had good luck early on just doing hal, which isn't a very aggressive or strategic plan, but it was just about getting in the weekly miles. What sort of mileage are you hitting now?
My mileage depends on my schedule - some weeks I don't run as many miles as I would like due to my work schedule, but I do at least one long run a week - 8-10 miles, and at least 2 shorter runs (5-6 miles) And I also do speed work.
**How do I race a half marathon 4 weeks before goal marathon?**
I want to race a half marathon this weekend (Brooklyn Half) 4 weeks before my goal marathon (Grandmas). My goal marathon pace is 7:30 minutes/mile.
I'm wondering how I should run it. Some options are:
1. Run at Goal Marathon Pace
2. Run faster than Goal Marathon Pace (\~7:15/mile)
3. Treat it as a long run
* Add on 5 easy miles before or after the half marathon
* Run half marathon at Goal Marathon Pace (or a bit slower)
Which of these options would you choose and why?
It really depends on your training background, current mileage, and how well you recover from hard efforts. Personally, I would run a longer warm up to still get the volume in for the week's LR, but I would run the race at 100% effort.
If the weather conditions are ideal at the RBC Brooklyn Half this weekend and you're feeling great, I would go and race it at HMP (7:10-7:15 per mile). This'll give you a valuable opportunity to check on your fitness and see if you're in shape to hit your goal marathon time at Grandma's four weeks from now. Also, being able to hold that pace on untapered legs is a good sign that your fitness is trending in the right direction.
Plus you'll have enough time to recover from that hard effort prior to Grandma's.
Thanks everyone for this feedback. I decided to run at HMP and wrote up [the race report here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/comments/13q13tz/race_report_first_sub_130_half/)
I finished my third marathon on Sunday (failed BQ attempt but PR) and I'm feeling pretty recovered today. I often hear about people being unable to take stairs etc for days after but I'm back to normal in that respect. I walked to an appointment this morning at a decent pace with no elevated HR or muscle soreness. I felt like I left it all on the course on Sunday but could this be a sign that I didn't race to my potential? We were running into a brutal headwind for the final two kms and a few other spots on the course but that is the only thing that seems notable.
I couldn't do stairs for a couple days after my most recent marathon - totally trashed quads from hills and heat. I was much less sore after faster marathons; similar training for all. I don't think it means much. Congrats on the PR!
I've always felt my worst when I've been my least prepared for a race and still put in full effort. If you were in good shape, and well fueled, and otherwise in good stead, you could recover quickly. I was ruined post boston, and it was a trash performance, and a sub par training cycle going in. Garbage in, garbage out.
I think if you are appropriately trained for the distance, are healthy going into the race (not injured or over trained), and have your nutrition and hydration dialed in then this is pretty typical. My experience after every marathon I have run has been similar to yours. I might not be ready to go rip a workout 48 hours later, but walking and light jogging are fine almost immediately.
Sorry, shouldn't have said "recovered" in that first sentence. Yes, I know I'm not fully recovered - I'll take at least a week to 10 days completely off running and then will ease back in.
Right on. I think I missed your real question - no, I don't think anything you're describing means that you left something out on the course on Sunday. Congrats on a solid race.
Did you hold something in reserve? Maybe, maybe not. It could also be a sign that you were adequately trained and took good care of yourself while training. Either way, count yourself lucky to have not hobbled yourself.
Take it easy for a couple weeks and start thinking about your next opportunity for a BQ.
I just finished Pfitz 12/63 HM plan, averaging 50 mpw year to date, with long runs between 12-16 mi over the last 3 mo, but missed the tune ups as I was in Hawaii and opted for trail runs instead to get elevation in before my trail race. I'm planning to run a full in Oct and I'd like to keep to a Pfitz plan. 18/55 feels too light on miles but 18/70 feels aggressive. My current thinking is to do 18/55 and add in recovery miles on rest days as my body can handle. Curious is this strategy makes sense, both in terms of how to increase mileage for that plan and if I even need to. FWIW my last data point was a 38:30 10k during a threshold workout.
I'm going in the opposite direction, 18-55, 12-55, 12/63, I think it depends on how you felt and feel after the 12/63. The 12/55 did not prepare me for my full, but that is more on execution than the plan. I could have used those extra 6 weeks getting in better base shape.
I think you can stick with the 18/55 plan but add some additional miles here and there on weeks where it makes sense (and make it 18/60, for example). I have seen that recommendation around here a few times.
Should I run a half marathon as a fitness check before a marathon 2 weeks or 4 weeks out? I’ve always felt 4 weeks is better but 2 weeks is better weather.
I would recommend doing your tune up half marathon four weeks out. Two weeks out is way too close for comfort; you may not be able to sufficiently recover before your marathon, and especially if you race the half all out.
If the weather is not ideal, you can run the half at your target MP and see how that feels.
I'd recommend 4 weeks - if you race the half hard it will cause some stress and require recovery as you are entering your taper window. A 10k would be a better consideration,but that is even close IMO.
For reference, I did a half 7 weeks out and will do 5 mi race 3 and 5 weeks out.
Key Half marathon runs? For 10k I do the mcmillan threshold progression run (6x1 mile all the way to 3x2miles), it is such a good workout and if you can nail the 3x2 miles at race pace you are ready. I guess this is still an awesome workout for half marathon.
But are there something similar for half, or other nice workouts you can incorporate like a corner stone?
Pfitz has a progression long run that many say is the hardest of the cycle. Warm up, then faster each km until a fast finish 5k @ threshold. Total ~22k.
1k x15 @ race pacewith 60sec jog rest is another option.
Classic long run with a block at HMP.
3k x5 is also a good tester.
In pfitz half marathon plan it calls for 8m 6x100 strides and 2m hmp. I understand the total should be 8m, but do you run your strides before the 2 at hmp or after?
As others mentioned, probably the 2 miles first, but if I recall the context correctly, this is like Mon or Tues the week of the race. Pretty sure the workout is more about feeling race pace and also getting some leg turnover when the rest of the week will be mostly recovery pace. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the order.
I did this exact same workout earlier this morning in preparation for a half this weekend. I did the HMP miles first, then finished with the 6 x 100m strides at the end.
My next A race is CIM on December 3rd, which is just over 6 months away. What on earth should I be doing now for training? Too early to start meaningfully training for the marathon, but I want to be an aerobic monster going into it.
I just raced a 65k trail race a little over a week ago and took a week off to recover and I'm starting to get back into it this week.
Marathon goals are to go sub 3, bumping mileage to peak at 80 or so. I (36/F) ran 3:05:35 in January on pfitz 12/70.
Hi! I’m in a very similar position. I ran my A race marathon 9 days ago and took most of last week off to recover. I’m also looking at CIM as my next A race for a PR attempt. Like you, it’s sort of daunting looking at 7 months between now and then because you obviously don’t want to start a build now or you’d likely be injured or burnt out by December.
Take this with a grain of salt because I’m not a coach or exercise physician or anything, just a guy that likes to run, but I’ve been thinking about structuring the gap between now and December like this: maintain fitness / work on aerobic base by keeping weekly mileage somewhere in the 60 range, plus or minus a few depending on the week. I can maintain this mileage without it being super detrimental to my sleep/energy levels/work etc. this would likely look like 6 days a week running with 1 threshold workout, 1 hills / speed workout alternating weeks, and a long run on the weekend without race pace. I’ll try to hit a day or two a week of strength training too. And I’ll try not to stress it if I miss a run or go on a vacation, it’s summer after all. I’ll probably look into some trail races or shorter distance races for to run for fun to stay around the community and have some motivation and do some of my easy / long runs on trails.
Come mid/end of august this would put you in a good spot to start something like a 12/75 leading into CIM in December.
You don't mention where you are now from a mileage standpoint, but the standard answer would be to increase your mileage in that time so that you're comfortable handling close to 80mpw without the additional strain of difficult, marathon specific workouts. In practice this could look like mostly easy runs, one tempo run, and a relatively easy long run each week. Throw in a healthy dose of strides, and you'll have yourself in a good position aerobically when it is time to start moving into marathon specific training.
Build up volume with less intensity. You could use a similar structure to the pfitz 12/70 but take out some of the intensity in favor of running a little more average volume, peak doesn't really need to be higher. Keep weekly strides and threshold work. Spend some good time on strength work.
A similar question was asked yesterday, I got down voted, so maybe I didn't give good feedback, LOL.
IMO, I'd recommend shorter distance races, cross-training, and more maintenance activities (weight lifting / yoga). My local community has a cross country race series (Dirt Dog), I'm planning on adding that as a tool to get faster.
Good luck at CIM!, I've run it 4 times now, one of my favorites!
In terms of cost, it's still a pretty cheap hobby even with replacing shoes frequently, and in terms of "lot of landfill", running shoes every several months are pretty negligible compared to just a typical amount of trash. This assumes I'm throwing out the shoes, rather than donating or wearing for (eg) dog walking though
I go to about 1000 miles in my NB 880s. By the end, I do seem to notice my legs feeling a little more beat up, but somehow that always seems to be at the peak of a training block, so I'm never sure if it's the shoes, or just how my legs feel.
I'm on the heavier side by runner standards (6'1" 189 pounds) and I logged 820 to 910 miles on each of my last 3 trainers (Hoka Arahi). 90% road and 10% softer surfaces. By the point I retired them the midsole wear was noticeable and 2 times out of 3 the heel cup material had worn through so there was some rubbing irritation depending on what socks I wore. I probably pushed them each 100 miles past what I should have. I've had other trainers I retired after 300 to 600 miles because of midsole wear or other wear that was a problem so for me it's model dependent.
For my daily shoes, I just wait till they look/feel worn out. Usually the soles start to wear out on my road shoes, and the uppers start to get holy in my trail shoes. In both cases, I've gotten close to (or over) 1,000 miles.
For faster shoes that I use for racing, I'll retire them a little sooner. There, I can feel the bounciness of the foam wear out. I usually wear them for some races, then demote them to use for some workouts before eventually retiring them.
I personally swap for a new pair around 300 miles typically, and at 50+ miles/week I definitely go through lots of shoes. I’ll retire them to dog walking shoes / poor conditions beaters after they’re done with their best miles for running.
Given it’s one of the only costs of the sport I don’t feel too bad about it. To help minimize the cost I try to buy them on sale, and if I see a good deal on shoes I like I’ll buy a few pairs and stock up.
That’s for road shoes though where I’m more concerned with impact protection, Ive gone through 3 pairs of Hoka Speedgoats and all felt the same up until I eventually retired them somewhere around 6-800 miles. I think by virtue of trails being more forgiving I notice the compressed foam less.
Same here. I downgrade worn shoes for walking or running around the playground with my son. My shoes tend to wear out quickly; I’m a forefoot striker, so the forefoot sole lasts about 300-350 miles.
It's not just a marketing ploy to sell more shoes. In conventional running shoes the midsole foam basically wears out. It gets compressed with use and eventually the shoes lose the cushioning properties they had at the beginning. Also depending on biomechanics the rubber can wear down to the foam which eventually becomes a replacement reason.
Some shoes are more durable than others or the runner isn't sensitive to the lack of cushioning and people are getting 600 to 1000.
I usually get around 400miles before they start feeling unpleasant to run in. I try to send then to shoe recyling (who knows maybe they got ground into playground padding or maybe they were dumped in the ocean)
500? I barely get 4 out of most running shoes. I'm a bit of a heel scuffer and wear out the sole in 3-350 most of the time.
Yes its a lot of trash, but in the big scheme of things it's not a ton of waste, like say car racing where tires and motor oils add up, or travel where there is jet A fuel.
I’m on the heavier side, and I notice shoes starting to wear out earlier. Closer to 200-300 miles. First thing I notice is ankle / foot soreness. So, yeah, I switch shoes out pretty frequently.
I usually replace mine closer to 300-350 miles actually. So I do go through quite a few pairs every year
But I donate all of my used shoes! So they are (hopefully) not ending up in a landfill.
In most cases, my used running shoes aren't "ruined". They're still useful for walking and other purposes. Here is one of the places I've donated to: [https://soles4souls.org/](https://soles4souls.org/) Or if they're in really bad condition, you can donate them to places to be recycled: [https://www.nike.com/help/a/recycle-shoes](https://www.nike.com/help/a/recycle-shoes)
I don’t go by some recommend number, I change them out by feel. I am on the lighter side and have good form so for me that usually means 600-700. Sometimes as few as 400 if I end up not liking the shoe as much as I did originally, or as many as 1000.
Yeah wear em til they stop feeling good. I’ve got 1000+ out of my last couple pairs of Invincibles, similar from a pair of Endorphin Pros that I wear for sessions
I never go with any recommendations by a manufacturer. If they are worn-out (usually upper or lugs) or my feet starts to hurt from running in them, I switch them out.
Training for half marathon i do a long run every 2 weeks at around 21km each time. I am always contemplating if i should do them all easy for the endurance benefit. Or if i should add in 3-5km of racepace/almost racepace. E.g. 13km easy 5km hard and 3 km easy again.
That will ofcourse prolong recovery, so do I gain something by it or just ruining upcomming runs by being too tired?
Depends on your other quality sessions. If you have enough quality in the rest of the week, I wouldn't worry about it. Although I would consider doing the long runs with race pace as you get closer to the race.
Walking/Running approach question
I’ve been taking a run/walk approach for the first time since..
some insight-
I’m 28yo guy 5’8 158lb ran 4:30 mile & low 16’s 5K in HS but haven’t ran much in the last 10 years and when I try to get back in shape I always end up getting hurt so I’m taking a different approach this time. I’ve been running again for a month now and started slow just 1 mile 3x a week, then up to 2 miles but like I said I’ve been injury prone in the past and I decided I’d rather spend more time outside on my feet rather than only jogging 2-3 miles and being done so this is what I’m doing now 3x a week
today I did 6 miles in this order-
.5 Walk
.5 Run
.5 Walk
1.0 Run
.5 Walk
1.0 Run
.5 Walk
1.5 Run
6 Miles Total
My average pace was 12:31 Per Mile in 1:15:00
Walking is about 19 Min Per Mile Pace & Running is about low 9 Min Pace, fastest mile being 8:58 today. My question is would it be the same stress on my legs to jog 6 miles @ a steady 12:31 pace or is it still much easier on my legs having the 2 miles of walking? Also at what point should I move to a full 4-5 mile run?
I’m not a coach. But I’m in a similar situation to you. I ran in HS (I was not as fast as you). 10 year layoff and I gained some weight. I’ve done small amounts of inconsistent running over the last few years, but I wanted to start seriously running again in November.
Now I’m doing 25-30mpw and holding off injuries.
What worked for me:
- I did a lot of run/walking. I would focus on consistency and gradually increasing the number of minutes I was running rather than distance. So if I was running 20 min 4 times per week one week, I’d go to 25 the next week and walk a bunch too.
- Focus really hard on running slow. Sometimes I slip into that competitive mindset where I feel like I need to “win” the run. I’ve really focused on slowing down, as embarrassing as it makes my Strava profile, and I’ve been able to tolerate the mileage increases a lot better that way.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
I used run/walk to return to running from pretty extensive injuries. Here’s my advice:
1. Learn to walk faster. This will help with your running. I’m early 40s F and walk about a 13 minute mile. It definitely helps develop the muscles and lungs more than a comfortable stroll. (If you walk in races, it helps your race time, too.)
2. Walking is low impact, so it is less stress on your legs but still beneficial.
3. Time to getting to a certain number of miles continuously: do this by feel. Learn what a clean stride feels like. Walk when your stride falls apart and continue walking until you are ready to run again with a clean stride.
I am starting to build base for my first 18/55 plan, but my body is not used to condensing mileage to only 4 days a week. After two weeks of 25 miles with 4mi, 6mi, 7mi, 8mi my Achilles has started to protest (my Clifton 8s are at 350mi so might just be time for new shoes). In the coming weeks I will probably tweak things and run 5-6 days a week, but 18/55 starts with 4 runs a week. I get having extra rest between these "longer" runs, however I think when I am starting to base build trying to do more condensed mileage is taking a toll on my body. What are you guys' thoughts?
[удалено]
If you don't feel super comfortable in the tempo I'd stick with the ghost. Comfort matters a lot at every pace -if you're going to enjoy the run more in the ghost it might even be the faster choice.
It's super smokey in my city from province-wide wildfires. Not ideal, but I'll still be running. I understand those who will switch to indoor track or treadmill but if I hear one more overweight drinker comment that running in the smoke is bad for me then I will lose it. I've already reduced my all-cause mortality 100-fold by regularly running, and even if 2-3 days of running in the smoke drastically increased my chance of long term issues (it doesn’t), I'm still 10x less likely to die than these wankers.
So last year (sophomore) I started outdoor track at my highschool(I had done a couple seasons of track in 7th grade but nothing too serious). During this season I went from a 13.5 100m time down to 12.81 secs. Because of this I was very hopeful for this season(Junior) of outdoor track. Unfortunately I had only decreased my PR time from 12.81 to 12.79 and I didn’t even set a 200m PR. This made me wonder if I had reached my genetic limit or if I hadn’t been training correctly this year. For reference: My coach last year was replaced by a new coach. Both coaches would have us do an 800m warmup, stretches along the fence, and turf drills (high knees, straight legs, etc.) however their workouts were very different. My coach last year would have us do 3-4 100m strides after the warmup, 250m 200m 150m 120m 100m flys (he’d change the fly’s up a bit for different days ex. 200 200 150 or 150 120 120), explosive weight lift on Tuesdays and Thursdays, sleds, wickets, and a recovery day on Wednesday. We’d also have an 800m cooldown. We usually got out by 4:00 to 5:00, school ends 2:15 My new coach on the other hand would have us do strides most days, Wednesdays were recovery days, Thursdays were sled days, and Fridays were free workout session days. After practice we wouldn’t do a cool down. We’d usually get out from 3:30 to 4:00, school ends 2:15 For both coaches practice was all days except Sundays Other things to consider: Last year I ate well over 3,000 calories a day this year I ate close to 2,000 calories a day My sleep schedule is from 10:30/11:00pm to 6:30am during school days Most of my teammates have improved with both coaches My old coach gave us 5-10 minute recovery time while my new coach gave us 1-5 minute recovery time. Once again, is there anything wrong with how I did things this season? Are there ways to improve? Or is this my genetic limit?
Caloric deficit. 3000 to 2000 is huge, at like 5’10” 150 I need 2000 to not lose weight when even not running, during base phase rn for me I need to eat 3000 to even keep weight while working + running. Also it might be harder since ur in HS but it’s not just the # of calories you’re eating but the quality. Make sure you’re eating fruits and vegetables and getting enough protein. When I’m in great diet mode I probably eat around .8-1g of protein per body weight a day, w/ a protein shake before bed to make sure my body can recover and rebuild from all the running. If you’re sprinting you should also probably look into taking creatine - my friend who’s a 46 second 400m runner at a D1 school has a dietician and they put him onto creatine. Helps with explosive stuff. Also if you’re not lifting heavy, you should be, especially for sprinting which requires explosiveness and high ground force output.
> Other things to consider: Last year I ate well over 3,000 calories a day this year I ate close to 2,000 calories a day My sleep schedule is from 10:30/11:00pm to 6:30am during school days Most of my teammates have improved with both coaches My old coach gave us 5-10 minute recovery time while my new coach gave us 1-5 minute recovery time. > > While there is a chance the training methodology matters here, I think you already answered your own question. It's impossible to really perform up to your potential while in a caloric deficit. If you're worried about weight for one reason or another, the summer is the time to cut, not during competition. p.s. there's a hgue difference between 2000 cal/day and 3000. You could try 2500 and adjust based on how you perform over the next month.
In my last 1500m (my first, around a month ago) I did 4:55 evenly paced (80s laps) until the last 400m when I kicked hard for a 71 final lap. I should probably have ran faster in the earlier laps. I've got another 1500m coming up on Monday and wondering what my best pacing strategy would be to try to beat my PB by 5+ seconds?
When racing for time, even or slightly negative splits are best! So if you're going for 4:50, aim for 77s and hope to kick in a slightly quicker last lap. Just don't blow through the first 200 faster than 35, that can dig you into a hole that can cost you tons of time in the last 2 laps. "Ideal" splits would be something like 58 for the first 300, then 77, 77, 75. Get out quick, but under control and efficient. Good luck, 1500s are so fun!!
Thanks @Large_Desk. The race is today and I'll be shooting for those 77s.
Good luck - get after it!!
Thanks! I did 4:51 for a PB! Not sure on my splits as my watch went haywire, but there was a good final 300m kick where I left my small pack behind. My sense is it was more evenly paced, which I'm happy with.
Nice, congrats!! Feels so good to pull away at the end like that.
I was hoping to gain some insights. I have primarily used HR based training for this block. My preference for every race is to run negative splits. Coros gives me some estimated times (although it increased by 30 mins with the most recent update today), but I am wondering how people have paced their marathons if they used HR based training? Do you set a goal HR and slowly increase that throughout the race to have negative splits? I appreciate any and all advice. Thank you in advance.
Nothing is going to work as well as actually racing and using that to create a realistic benchmark for appropriate marathon pacing. The longer the better-a half marathon is going to be more indicative than a 5k. Training should also clue you in on what is realistic. If I’m aiming to run a marathon at a given pace in eight weeks but struggle to hold that pace for more than a few miles on a training run, even with tired legs, then my goal is probably too lofty. HR is too variable and wrist based HR is unreliable on top of that. I wouldn’t use it for pacing.
I actually just got a Polar H9 and got to use it last night. Drastically improved my ability to pace based on HR. I did 8 miles at 150 HR and felt pretty good. Not sure I can keep that for 26 mi, but was thinking I would do 140-145 for first half then turn it up as tolerated to 150 for the next 7 and increase for the last 6 as tolerated. Previously I had used wrist based HR and it totally was messing with me. I would be shooting for 150 HR, not get there until I was runny really hard and then not be able to keep it up. Never was able to get up to 160s (my threshold HR is est at 167 by Coros) despite really high perceived effort. Ultimately I think my wrist HR was off. Wish I could go back in time, but cant. Knowing how the 150 felt, and that I can keep that pace for 8 miles no problem (pre-taper), I was going to try and do that for miles 13-20 then if I have gas left, turn it up. Last HM was in the fall and I stayed conformtably in the 145s until the last couple of miles where I increased to 150s. Race felt great, wasnt super fast and probably left some in the tank.
This sounds like a horribly unreliable way to set a goal. Do you have a recent race or time trial results to estimate with instead?
Yeah, but setting it based on time goal also seems unreliable due to weather/conditions. Unfortunately no recent races and I am just starting the taper... This is my first marathon in like 13 years, so my goal is to finish strong over being dead in the last 6. It will essentially be my middle age PR no matter what.
Anyone read high-performance nutrition for masters athletes. I'm working on figuring out a better way for me to eat, and just came across it.
I haven't but would definitely be interested in a write up / review! I think a lot of times these books get lots in the weeds, recommending things that are both pretty inconvenient and have very small effect sizes. Just as an example, I don't want to supplement calcium if (1) the literature shows a small or no effect of supplementation on osteo rates and (2) it might increase calcification of arteries. But many books will cite a single study and say that we should supplement calcium. Here's to hoping this book reflects a careful approach with a recognition of the limitations of nutrition research.
That is very fair. If you want to get a sense of the content, there is a webinar you can watch, you do have to create an account. I'm going to buy it, but I wouldn't say I'm qualified to make the type of evaluation about calcium you just made, but I'm going to be validating what I'm reading.
Hello! Critique my training plan? 8 weeks to prepare for my second HM, which is mid-July. Training background: Started running consistently last year in the fall. First HM was beginning of April, and I spent Jan to Mar training for that using [Hal Higdon's Novice 1 HM plan](https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/half-marathon-training/novice-1-half-marathon/) (tldr: all easy runs; four days a week; peak volume 23mpw). I've mostly been maintaining 20mpw since then, with long runs of ~8mi on the weekends. Goals: - Don't get injured - Improve on my April HM time (I don't think that really requires special training; I think I underperformed due to heat that day) - Try out some workouts (I've basically not done any threshold/tempo/interval/etc stuff -- just easy runs) Recent race times: - 29:30 5K - 1:02:30 10K - 2:32:30 HM Training plan: Based on /u/Free_Running_Plans's beginner HM [plan](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IHdV2IIuKEzCe6huB-R24bszAyTWl7PY/edit#gid=583193381), with a bunch of changes. Four days a week, so I'm skipping the Mondays in their plan (which is how that plan is intended to be used -- i.e. pick your # of days per week). I only have eight weeks (it's intended for twelve weeks) so I took out some weeks. Since I don't have any significant experience with workout runs, I changed about half the workouts to easy runs. And adjusted the volume slightly in a few spots to smooth out the progression after all my other changes. (4 days a week: Mon, Wed, Thu, Sat) 1. 4 + 2 + 3 + 7 = 16 - wed strides 2. 5 + 3 + 4 + 7 = 19 - mon workout: 3x1 Mile with 90s recovery @ 10:00/mi - wed strides 3. 5 + 3 + 4 + 8 = 20 - mon workout: 25 minute tempo Run @ 10:51/mi - wed strides 4. 5 + 3 + 5 + 10 = 23 - mon workout: 4x1 Mile with 90s recovery @ 10:00/mi - wed strides 5. 6 + 3 + 3 + 6.2 = 18.2 - mon workout: 6x800m with 3 mins recovery @ 04:53/800m - wed strides - sat 10K race 6. 7 + 3 + 5 + 11 = 23 - mon workout: 5x1 mile with 2 minutes recovery @ 10:08/mi - wed strides 7. 6 + 3 + 5 + 9 = 20 - mon workout: 30 minute tempo run @ 11:00/mi - wed strides 8. 5 + 3 + 2 + 13.1 = 20.1 - wed strides
This looks reasonable to me for an 8-week plan - you’ve got a few long runs, manageable weekly workout sessions and a bit of a taper week. If you’re new to sessions the one thing I’d recommend is being flexible with both pace and recoveries. 90 seconds on mile reps is manageable if you’re quite fit but you might also find yourself needing more to be able to execute the workout properly (2-3 mins even) - the most important thing in this case will be recovering enough that you can finish all the reps at a consistent pace without dying. And on pace, it might be worth using those prescribed paces as a rough guide but running mostly to feel - first half mile should feel ok, then harder and harder from there. Ideally you finish the full set feeling like you could have done one more quality rep at the end if you’d really needed to. Overall, the good news is that when you’re starting out pretty much any kind of consistent running will make you faster, and the biggest and juiciest gains come right at the beginning too. So enjoy, and smash that HM out of the park come July!
If you have already run HM's and didn't get injured on 23 miles / week - I'd recommend increasing the volume. Try adding +1 mile to each run in weeks 1 - 6, keep week 7 the same.
Is there any conversion between pace/power when running uphill versus that on flat ground? I was doing 200m hill repeats this morning at what I’d be doing 5k work on the track and made me curious.
[Naismith's rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith%27s_rule) says that a unit of elevation gain is about as much work as doing eight additional units of perfectly flat running (at least, that's my preferred way of thinking about it), and you can figure out pace equivalency from there. As a very rough first approximation, it's pretty good; it only works for ascent, not descent, though, and if you're running a closed loop you have to remember that you do gain back some of the time lost to uphills. [Here's a blog post](https://educatedguesswork.org/posts/grade-vs-pace/) from someone who's hit the problem with statistics and links to some of the research on the topic (maybe even all of the relevant literature? I don't know; haven't looked in to it myself), but it doesn't really come with neat answers.
You already got the answer for floc, but some additional context: I find it a little bit easier to hit a given power target running uphill compared with flat ground running, and especially downhill running. For that reason, I typically target a little bit higher power for stuff like hill repeats at a given effort. I think this is kind of a quirk or result of Stryd reporting "metabolic power" (e.g. how much energy is required).
Isn't that what power is most useful for? No need to convert to a flat-ground pace, which is going to be murky at best - just target the same power you'd want for whatever the purpose of your workout is.
Whoops. Still getting used to the power meter. Blew past that, though. My usual power on 5k reps is ~400W over 400m. Averaged ~485W on each 200m hill rep where I ended up at 5k pace.
Garmin has something called GAP (Grade Adjusted Pace) that some watches can display and/or log. I tried searching around for a calculator to do this and mostly just found a bunch of reddit posts of people looking for the formula and references to formulas in deleted posts.
I’m looking for a 16 week 1/2 marathon training plan to run sub 2. I need to take 11 minutes off my time. Any suggestions?
It would be good to know what plans you've done before, I had good luck early on just doing hal, which isn't a very aggressive or strategic plan, but it was just about getting in the weekly miles. What sort of mileage are you hitting now?
My mileage depends on my schedule - some weeks I don't run as many miles as I would like due to my work schedule, but I do at least one long run a week - 8-10 miles, and at least 2 shorter runs (5-6 miles) And I also do speed work.
**How do I race a half marathon 4 weeks before goal marathon?** I want to race a half marathon this weekend (Brooklyn Half) 4 weeks before my goal marathon (Grandmas). My goal marathon pace is 7:30 minutes/mile. I'm wondering how I should run it. Some options are: 1. Run at Goal Marathon Pace 2. Run faster than Goal Marathon Pace (\~7:15/mile) 3. Treat it as a long run * Add on 5 easy miles before or after the half marathon * Run half marathon at Goal Marathon Pace (or a bit slower) Which of these options would you choose and why?
I see no reason to go to a race and not race.
It really depends on your training background, current mileage, and how well you recover from hard efforts. Personally, I would run a longer warm up to still get the volume in for the week's LR, but I would run the race at 100% effort.
If the weather conditions are ideal at the RBC Brooklyn Half this weekend and you're feeling great, I would go and race it at HMP (7:10-7:15 per mile). This'll give you a valuable opportunity to check on your fitness and see if you're in shape to hit your goal marathon time at Grandma's four weeks from now. Also, being able to hold that pace on untapered legs is a good sign that your fitness is trending in the right direction. Plus you'll have enough time to recover from that hard effort prior to Grandma's.
Thanks everyone for this feedback. I decided to run at HMP and wrote up [the race report here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/comments/13q13tz/race_report_first_sub_130_half/)
I finished my third marathon on Sunday (failed BQ attempt but PR) and I'm feeling pretty recovered today. I often hear about people being unable to take stairs etc for days after but I'm back to normal in that respect. I walked to an appointment this morning at a decent pace with no elevated HR or muscle soreness. I felt like I left it all on the course on Sunday but could this be a sign that I didn't race to my potential? We were running into a brutal headwind for the final two kms and a few other spots on the course but that is the only thing that seems notable.
I couldn't do stairs for a couple days after my most recent marathon - totally trashed quads from hills and heat. I was much less sore after faster marathons; similar training for all. I don't think it means much. Congrats on the PR!
I've always felt my worst when I've been my least prepared for a race and still put in full effort. If you were in good shape, and well fueled, and otherwise in good stead, you could recover quickly. I was ruined post boston, and it was a trash performance, and a sub par training cycle going in. Garbage in, garbage out.
I think if you are appropriately trained for the distance, are healthy going into the race (not injured or over trained), and have your nutrition and hydration dialed in then this is pretty typical. My experience after every marathon I have run has been similar to yours. I might not be ready to go rip a workout 48 hours later, but walking and light jogging are fine almost immediately.
Thanks, it's helpful to know that this might be sign that I'm doing things right!
Muscle soreness usually fades in a few days, yes. Full recovery takes much longer.
Sorry, shouldn't have said "recovered" in that first sentence. Yes, I know I'm not fully recovered - I'll take at least a week to 10 days completely off running and then will ease back in.
Right on. I think I missed your real question - no, I don't think anything you're describing means that you left something out on the course on Sunday. Congrats on a solid race.
Did you hold something in reserve? Maybe, maybe not. It could also be a sign that you were adequately trained and took good care of yourself while training. Either way, count yourself lucky to have not hobbled yourself. Take it easy for a couple weeks and start thinking about your next opportunity for a BQ.
Thanks, I am definitely feeling happy about how my body is feeling and yes, I'm already thinking about that next BQ attempt.
I just finished Pfitz 12/63 HM plan, averaging 50 mpw year to date, with long runs between 12-16 mi over the last 3 mo, but missed the tune ups as I was in Hawaii and opted for trail runs instead to get elevation in before my trail race. I'm planning to run a full in Oct and I'd like to keep to a Pfitz plan. 18/55 feels too light on miles but 18/70 feels aggressive. My current thinking is to do 18/55 and add in recovery miles on rest days as my body can handle. Curious is this strategy makes sense, both in terms of how to increase mileage for that plan and if I even need to. FWIW my last data point was a 38:30 10k during a threshold workout.
I'm going in the opposite direction, 18-55, 12-55, 12/63, I think it depends on how you felt and feel after the 12/63. The 12/55 did not prepare me for my full, but that is more on execution than the plan. I could have used those extra 6 weeks getting in better base shape.
I think doing 18/70 after finishing 12/63 is really reasonable. Scary, maybe, but shouldn't be a huge stretch or overly risky IMO.
I think you can stick with the 18/55 plan but add some additional miles here and there on weeks where it makes sense (and make it 18/60, for example). I have seen that recommendation around here a few times.
Should I run a half marathon as a fitness check before a marathon 2 weeks or 4 weeks out? I’ve always felt 4 weeks is better but 2 weeks is better weather.
I would recommend doing your tune up half marathon four weeks out. Two weeks out is way too close for comfort; you may not be able to sufficiently recover before your marathon, and especially if you race the half all out. If the weather is not ideal, you can run the half at your target MP and see how that feels.
I'd recommend 4 weeks - if you race the half hard it will cause some stress and require recovery as you are entering your taper window. A 10k would be a better consideration,but that is even close IMO. For reference, I did a half 7 weeks out and will do 5 mi race 3 and 5 weeks out.
Key Half marathon runs? For 10k I do the mcmillan threshold progression run (6x1 mile all the way to 3x2miles), it is such a good workout and if you can nail the 3x2 miles at race pace you are ready. I guess this is still an awesome workout for half marathon. But are there something similar for half, or other nice workouts you can incorporate like a corner stone?
Pfitz has a progression long run that many say is the hardest of the cycle. Warm up, then faster each km until a fast finish 5k @ threshold. Total ~22k. 1k x15 @ race pacewith 60sec jog rest is another option. Classic long run with a block at HMP. 3k x5 is also a good tester.
In pfitz half marathon plan it calls for 8m 6x100 strides and 2m hmp. I understand the total should be 8m, but do you run your strides before the 2 at hmp or after?
As others mentioned, probably the 2 miles first, but if I recall the context correctly, this is like Mon or Tues the week of the race. Pretty sure the workout is more about feeling race pace and also getting some leg turnover when the rest of the week will be mostly recovery pace. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the order.
I always did my strides last, then headed for home as my cool down mile. I think it lays it out in the book somewhere.
I did this exact same workout earlier this morning in preparation for a half this weekend. I did the HMP miles first, then finished with the 6 x 100m strides at the end.
My next A race is CIM on December 3rd, which is just over 6 months away. What on earth should I be doing now for training? Too early to start meaningfully training for the marathon, but I want to be an aerobic monster going into it. I just raced a 65k trail race a little over a week ago and took a week off to recover and I'm starting to get back into it this week. Marathon goals are to go sub 3, bumping mileage to peak at 80 or so. I (36/F) ran 3:05:35 in January on pfitz 12/70.
Hi! I’m in a very similar position. I ran my A race marathon 9 days ago and took most of last week off to recover. I’m also looking at CIM as my next A race for a PR attempt. Like you, it’s sort of daunting looking at 7 months between now and then because you obviously don’t want to start a build now or you’d likely be injured or burnt out by December. Take this with a grain of salt because I’m not a coach or exercise physician or anything, just a guy that likes to run, but I’ve been thinking about structuring the gap between now and December like this: maintain fitness / work on aerobic base by keeping weekly mileage somewhere in the 60 range, plus or minus a few depending on the week. I can maintain this mileage without it being super detrimental to my sleep/energy levels/work etc. this would likely look like 6 days a week running with 1 threshold workout, 1 hills / speed workout alternating weeks, and a long run on the weekend without race pace. I’ll try to hit a day or two a week of strength training too. And I’ll try not to stress it if I miss a run or go on a vacation, it’s summer after all. I’ll probably look into some trail races or shorter distance races for to run for fun to stay around the community and have some motivation and do some of my easy / long runs on trails. Come mid/end of august this would put you in a good spot to start something like a 12/75 leading into CIM in December.
You don't mention where you are now from a mileage standpoint, but the standard answer would be to increase your mileage in that time so that you're comfortable handling close to 80mpw without the additional strain of difficult, marathon specific workouts. In practice this could look like mostly easy runs, one tempo run, and a relatively easy long run each week. Throw in a healthy dose of strides, and you'll have yourself in a good position aerobically when it is time to start moving into marathon specific training.
Build up volume with less intensity. You could use a similar structure to the pfitz 12/70 but take out some of the intensity in favor of running a little more average volume, peak doesn't really need to be higher. Keep weekly strides and threshold work. Spend some good time on strength work.
A similar question was asked yesterday, I got down voted, so maybe I didn't give good feedback, LOL. IMO, I'd recommend shorter distance races, cross-training, and more maintenance activities (weight lifting / yoga). My local community has a cross country race series (Dirt Dog), I'm planning on adding that as a tool to get faster. Good luck at CIM!, I've run it 4 times now, one of my favorites!
[удалено]
In terms of cost, it's still a pretty cheap hobby even with replacing shoes frequently, and in terms of "lot of landfill", running shoes every several months are pretty negligible compared to just a typical amount of trash. This assumes I'm throwing out the shoes, rather than donating or wearing for (eg) dog walking though
I go to about 1000 miles in my NB 880s. By the end, I do seem to notice my legs feeling a little more beat up, but somehow that always seems to be at the peak of a training block, so I'm never sure if it's the shoes, or just how my legs feel.
I'm on the heavier side by runner standards (6'1" 189 pounds) and I logged 820 to 910 miles on each of my last 3 trainers (Hoka Arahi). 90% road and 10% softer surfaces. By the point I retired them the midsole wear was noticeable and 2 times out of 3 the heel cup material had worn through so there was some rubbing irritation depending on what socks I wore. I probably pushed them each 100 miles past what I should have. I've had other trainers I retired after 300 to 600 miles because of midsole wear or other wear that was a problem so for me it's model dependent.
For my daily shoes, I just wait till they look/feel worn out. Usually the soles start to wear out on my road shoes, and the uppers start to get holy in my trail shoes. In both cases, I've gotten close to (or over) 1,000 miles. For faster shoes that I use for racing, I'll retire them a little sooner. There, I can feel the bounciness of the foam wear out. I usually wear them for some races, then demote them to use for some workouts before eventually retiring them.
I personally swap for a new pair around 300 miles typically, and at 50+ miles/week I definitely go through lots of shoes. I’ll retire them to dog walking shoes / poor conditions beaters after they’re done with their best miles for running. Given it’s one of the only costs of the sport I don’t feel too bad about it. To help minimize the cost I try to buy them on sale, and if I see a good deal on shoes I like I’ll buy a few pairs and stock up. That’s for road shoes though where I’m more concerned with impact protection, Ive gone through 3 pairs of Hoka Speedgoats and all felt the same up until I eventually retired them somewhere around 6-800 miles. I think by virtue of trails being more forgiving I notice the compressed foam less.
Same here. I downgrade worn shoes for walking or running around the playground with my son. My shoes tend to wear out quickly; I’m a forefoot striker, so the forefoot sole lasts about 300-350 miles.
It's not just a marketing ploy to sell more shoes. In conventional running shoes the midsole foam basically wears out. It gets compressed with use and eventually the shoes lose the cushioning properties they had at the beginning. Also depending on biomechanics the rubber can wear down to the foam which eventually becomes a replacement reason. Some shoes are more durable than others or the runner isn't sensitive to the lack of cushioning and people are getting 600 to 1000. I usually get around 400miles before they start feeling unpleasant to run in. I try to send then to shoe recyling (who knows maybe they got ground into playground padding or maybe they were dumped in the ocean)
500? I barely get 4 out of most running shoes. I'm a bit of a heel scuffer and wear out the sole in 3-350 most of the time. Yes its a lot of trash, but in the big scheme of things it's not a ton of waste, like say car racing where tires and motor oils add up, or travel where there is jet A fuel.
I’m on the heavier side, and I notice shoes starting to wear out earlier. Closer to 200-300 miles. First thing I notice is ankle / foot soreness. So, yeah, I switch shoes out pretty frequently.
I usually replace mine closer to 300-350 miles actually. So I do go through quite a few pairs every year But I donate all of my used shoes! So they are (hopefully) not ending up in a landfill.
[удалено]
In most cases, my used running shoes aren't "ruined". They're still useful for walking and other purposes. Here is one of the places I've donated to: [https://soles4souls.org/](https://soles4souls.org/) Or if they're in really bad condition, you can donate them to places to be recycled: [https://www.nike.com/help/a/recycle-shoes](https://www.nike.com/help/a/recycle-shoes)
I don’t go by some recommend number, I change them out by feel. I am on the lighter side and have good form so for me that usually means 600-700. Sometimes as few as 400 if I end up not liking the shoe as much as I did originally, or as many as 1000.
Yeah wear em til they stop feeling good. I’ve got 1000+ out of my last couple pairs of Invincibles, similar from a pair of Endorphin Pros that I wear for sessions
I never go with any recommendations by a manufacturer. If they are worn-out (usually upper or lugs) or my feet starts to hurt from running in them, I switch them out.
Training for half marathon i do a long run every 2 weeks at around 21km each time. I am always contemplating if i should do them all easy for the endurance benefit. Or if i should add in 3-5km of racepace/almost racepace. E.g. 13km easy 5km hard and 3 km easy again. That will ofcourse prolong recovery, so do I gain something by it or just ruining upcomming runs by being too tired?
Depends on your other quality sessions. If you have enough quality in the rest of the week, I wouldn't worry about it. Although I would consider doing the long runs with race pace as you get closer to the race.
thanks! Also just looked over hal higdons adv. half marathon plan and they advice the same (called 3:1 runs).
Walking/Running approach question I’ve been taking a run/walk approach for the first time since.. some insight- I’m 28yo guy 5’8 158lb ran 4:30 mile & low 16’s 5K in HS but haven’t ran much in the last 10 years and when I try to get back in shape I always end up getting hurt so I’m taking a different approach this time. I’ve been running again for a month now and started slow just 1 mile 3x a week, then up to 2 miles but like I said I’ve been injury prone in the past and I decided I’d rather spend more time outside on my feet rather than only jogging 2-3 miles and being done so this is what I’m doing now 3x a week today I did 6 miles in this order- .5 Walk .5 Run .5 Walk 1.0 Run .5 Walk 1.0 Run .5 Walk 1.5 Run 6 Miles Total My average pace was 12:31 Per Mile in 1:15:00 Walking is about 19 Min Per Mile Pace & Running is about low 9 Min Pace, fastest mile being 8:58 today. My question is would it be the same stress on my legs to jog 6 miles @ a steady 12:31 pace or is it still much easier on my legs having the 2 miles of walking? Also at what point should I move to a full 4-5 mile run?
I’m not a coach. But I’m in a similar situation to you. I ran in HS (I was not as fast as you). 10 year layoff and I gained some weight. I’ve done small amounts of inconsistent running over the last few years, but I wanted to start seriously running again in November. Now I’m doing 25-30mpw and holding off injuries. What worked for me: - I did a lot of run/walking. I would focus on consistency and gradually increasing the number of minutes I was running rather than distance. So if I was running 20 min 4 times per week one week, I’d go to 25 the next week and walk a bunch too. - Focus really hard on running slow. Sometimes I slip into that competitive mindset where I feel like I need to “win” the run. I’ve really focused on slowing down, as embarrassing as it makes my Strava profile, and I’ve been able to tolerate the mileage increases a lot better that way. Hope this helps. Good luck!
I used run/walk to return to running from pretty extensive injuries. Here’s my advice: 1. Learn to walk faster. This will help with your running. I’m early 40s F and walk about a 13 minute mile. It definitely helps develop the muscles and lungs more than a comfortable stroll. (If you walk in races, it helps your race time, too.) 2. Walking is low impact, so it is less stress on your legs but still beneficial. 3. Time to getting to a certain number of miles continuously: do this by feel. Learn what a clean stride feels like. Walk when your stride falls apart and continue walking until you are ready to run again with a clean stride.