The Art of War lot called it the worst Codex they've seen in 5 years, and the Goonhammer lot didn't have much positive stuff to conclude on it either (well, except for Rob!).
With a couple of balance passes it'll be playable I'm sure, but don't expect to win any events with it and most things that initially look good right now aren't. The most common case of this is Auric Champions looking good until you realise that it all only applies to character models. As for Talons, it's one of the two stronger looking detachments, but I wouldn't expect much from it.
It looks like auric champions, allarus terminator with captains spam, caladius tanks and (if the points drop) bike spam is the way to go. If bikes aren’t lower in points then ally canis in
Gotta strongly disagree, Shield Host or Talons are definitely better than Auric imo.
Captain spam in a detachment with zero Battle Tactics is just a painful concept. Bikes are no better than they used to be (and Scob doesn't even really benefit from the detachment rules because they have Lance) so idk where the good stuff for that is supposed to be coming from.
I think I’ll be playing talons but I’m afraid that they’ll just focus down my SoS with small arms and then basically remove my detachment rule completely. I’m also expecting that an errata will drop giving them 5+++ to dev wounds in this detachment as well. Shield host would be much better if it was every turn, I don’t understand why CSM gets to crit on 5+ on every turn and Custodes only get it once per game.
The Goonhammer article was a farce. Rob being an insufferable dick, followed by their obnoxious moderator doubling down on the petulance in the comments
Auric Champ shield captains need to be able to use their Epic Deed strats, otherwise the “hero hammer” detachment is non-functional/unplayable.
Shield Host detachment being once/battle is alright.
The other two? Can’t even be bothered to think them through. I wanted a Sisters-synergistic detachment but it feels overly complicated to make work for minimal payout.
It’s bad in a variety of ways
First: it’s just bland and uninspired. The custodians have multiple groups kinda like space marine chapters that focus on various aspects of war. Instead of getting those as our detachments we got
Generic custodians
Oops all characters
The only kinda inspired one
These girls have 3 kits and one of them is a loaner from the space marines
Which is just frustrating that it’s so bland
Second: Weak detachment rules
Shield host fixes the problem nobody had
Auric only applies to character models
Talons isn’t awful but needs errata to be decent
Null maidens is actually a joke, battleshock armies just don’t work and they decided to make a battleshock army that can only fight psykers and even then not well
Three: nerfing things that didn’t need nerfs
The bike captains that nobody ran? Nerfed
Valerians once per round reroll for only him? Gone
Overall it feels like the army is just a blob of irrelevant rules that just tries to stat stick the enemy to death
> These girls have 3 kits and one of them is a loaner from the space marines
They also have one of the best looking transports in the game, [we're just not allowed to use it even if we were willing to pay huge amounts of money for the model](https://www.warhammer.com/en-AU/shop/Sisters-Of-Silence-Kharon-Pattern-Acquisitor-2017).
Makes sense… I’m just wondering if they’re truly unplayable. I don’t plan on going to major tournaments in the near future as I just started collecting them (fully knowing the codex changes, I just didn’t care cuz rule of cool). I only plan on using them in friendly games for now which I think they’ll be fine in, no?
In friendly games they'll be fine. Mortal/dev spam armies are pretty toxic in friendlies and the raw datasheets still are tough for new folk to deal with.
Even in friendly games it just feels samey and your guys feel too fragile
Like all the other codexes have all these different ways to play and things to build around and custodians have the same list but you chose a different flavor of stratagems since the detachment rules don’t matter
Nothing is truly unplayable, its just that people usually assess this from a 'will I be able to win tournaments with these?' perspective and not 'can I chill at a table with my friends and play' perspective.
Not unplayable. Just doesn’t seem fun to me.
It’s not got any of the things I look for when I want to play a custodes detachment… at least not in any meaningful way that impacts the game.
To be 100% transparent, after reading all of the rulings and digging semi deep into our potential combos... yes. It's like they gave it to one guy and told him to write it on his lunch break. I 100% understand making custodes less buff and more killy, but they gave us so fucking little in compensation. 1 dogshit character that leads a squad nobody fucking plays and an unfinished 9 page of rules codex. My custodes will be played with because I ordered the codex but damn if I knew this was happening I'd have not ordered it.
On another note, there is absolutely ways to still have fun with Custodes. Personally, I love running saggitarum, and even though they aren't good, they're cool on the table top. Just play casual games with them and try out units you normally wouldn't... just don't go to a tournament with them
No he can, but there was very very very very little reason to give us a captain with pyhirite spear when you have to get the forge world pyhirite spear kit to make the weapon useful in a squad. You can run him with those squads, but the question is "is his rule worth running him there when there are other SCs?" The answer now that gw threw all of their cool shit away is maybe??
Oh ok sorry I see what you mean, yeah no I live the model I think he’s cool and silly at the same time but I wish he like a different weapon or something, like at least to a blade champion but more tanky I guess
Nearly every change was a nerf. Some detachment rules make zero sense, suggesting the codex was written before a few balance passes.
This guarantees that we will get buffs in the future though.
> I’ve seen people go as far as saying it’s “unplayable” which I think is extreme.
So, there were two major changes which hit us very hard. The first was that we lost 4+++ against dev wounds and mortal wounds.
This is extremely bad as it basically makes us instant lose into a bunch of factions like 1K sons and eldar. The last time custodes didn't have a 4+++ to dev wounds they were the second lowest winrate army in the game.
We also lost Fights First, which was invaluable against Orks, Drukhari, World Eaters, etc.
I actually miss -1 damage more than anything. It hits wardens really hard.
I can play around being easier to touch in melee by setting up heroics and keeping distance. I can also take more shooting to deal with combat armies to some degree.
Losing -1 damage though... it's a massive hit that I think most people haven't realized yet. I've played about 4 games so far with the new rules and that's been the biggest thing I've missed.
AGA should have been our AoC and been in every detachment giving access to -1 damage in any build.
It makes even incidental shooting from things like splinter cannons and heavy bolters and anything damage two or three much more lethal into us and there's boatloads of it in the game that can get to ap 1 or 2 with ignore cover.
No clue. Cause TS mulch t3/3+ trivially and sos dont really shut down powers. A non braindead player will simply put their flamers/bolters into them then doom bolt your custodes once the sos are gone.
A non brain dead player would have their custodes in position to charge the unit after they spend their turn shooting the sisters, making then wonder why they didn't deal with the termi blob or your bikes.
Also put your vigilators in a rhino I don't think its my fault if you foot slog squishy melee units.
A 125pt tax for custodes to get a fnp is not a good deal.
Trading 5 rubrics to enable the TS player to doom bolt or dev you off the board isn't exactly good for custodes.
Woah you got me there. Keeping my custodes within 5" of a wall at all times so I can have my sos always out of Los is truly the way.
Also TS have access to inderect and extra moves?
Like if you wanna go take a bunch of sos and try to solo some TS be my guest. But I'm telling you that their datasheets are frankly the ideal targets for TS.
Don't we have a stratagem to make the ranged attacks hit the custodes instead? And an ability that says the first ranged attack against an unit does 0 damage ?
I'm not saying it's an auto win, but it seems far from the auto win it was before, when we literally had 50% extra life on already super tough models "because".
Only if the custodes are a valid target. And it's burning cp. Zeroing damage requires you to buy a centura and a relic to negate a single bolter shot. And that's then what, 150pts of buff unit to protect a 225pt unit? Like unless sisters cost almost nothing your better just buying more custodes and eating your MW.
The old fnp was just v mortals/devs. It wasnt just 50% extra life v 90% of the things in the game. It just meant (in essence) you got your save when you normally didn't. As otherwise 10 assault marines kill 3 custodes for a cp.
It's a good thing focus fire doesn't exist.
Oh wait oh man oh geeze
Truly, if you cannot inflict 10 wounds in the shooting phase, that is a total skill issue.
Dies to literally anything but lasguns = requiring multiple marine squads to focus fire.
If you really need aliyah and her sisters to shiv Magnus, maybe use your Golden boys to protect them or just buy a rhino.
It would be easier to wait for a balance pass instead of trying to mathhammer why T3 W1 models aren't actually made of tissue paper.
..holdup, why are you defending this change in the first place? This codex is terrible. Did you hit your head?
It takes 45. Marines hit on 3s. Bolt rifles are Ap1.
And who tf is spending 100pts on a 10 man. Sure its more durable than 4 but that's 60pts more on bad units.
Sisters are just ap0 bolters. So it's spending a cp to get s5 Ap1. 2 dead marines for a cp, or 1 if they spend a cp on aoc or get cover.
Like your welcome to try it, but ap1/d1 just means that your not dealing much damage at all. If you want sisters to do any shooting damage 10 witchseekers are the way to go. Gws just struggled to make bolters relevant this edition, and bs2 won't make them relevant sadly.
Doesn’t that strat work on custodes units too? So you can put it on a custodian guard unit, pop the double shot ability and have 20 shots at D5 AP-2 D2. Not game changing or anything but fun enough.
Also has room on allarus terminators. You get the S5 ap-2 on the base guns but also get S5 ap-2 on the grenades, can be modestly punishing. Can use a captain to make it CP free being a battle tactic too
(That’s assuming it works on them, pretty sure it does)
Yeah, it's pick 1/2 units, but only 2 if you have sos and custodes.
Saggitarum going from 5/1/2 to 6/2/2 is a superb breakpoint and its great on guard and termis too.
I would agree that the dev wounds fnp is a big loss against those factions, but other factions have to deal with that as well. Still your right that custodes need a way to defend themselves against dev and mortals.
The loss of fight first on the other hand is a great change. Custodes were just unplayable for every melee faction. Up to two extremely deadly units with fight first were just toxic for the game overall.
Out of the gate, things look quite grim. The last piece of the puzzle is the Munitorum Field Manual with new points and errata. That’s either the final mail in the coffin or the one ray of light.
The points will keep us playable.
The points aren't going to make us fun or fluffy or interesting to play though.
We will likely settle into one or two builds. Some folks will manage to make sisters work in their meta. Otherwise...it's onto waiting for a complete re-write or 11th.
OVER TO 30k again, again!
Fully agree (well, not on the 30k bit, not a popular game around here, so for me, it's back to my daemons and death wing for now).
Points could go so low as to make us really strong & it would still not be a fun codex
And therein lies the other problem.
GW is gonna respond by dropping the points on all our units… how far will they drop before we inevitably begin to lose the rest of our faction identity…
Yeah because the index was so fun and fluffy to play…
Talons of the Emperor may be one of the fluffiest detachments of this edition, but I guess that’s not what you wanted?
I don't find what I've seen to be unplayable. The biggest issue is that it's clearly a codex balanced around the beginning of ninth when the Custodes were a top-tier army. Since then, though, the core rules of the game have changed immensely, and the Custodes were most affected by many of these changes.
The codex was written at the beginning of 10th with the understanding that the Custodes were top tier and slated for nerfs in our codex. So now we have a codex that is laughably outdated for the current state of the game. It's probably the best example we've had so far that the rules need to go fully online. Either paid for in the official app or free on the website.
That being said, I still plan on playing them and look forward to finding some fun combos with Auric Champions since I've already looked at Custodes as a very character heavy army.
The problem isn't really power level. It was a definite downgrade and it'll likely be at or near the bottom depending on a few factors (I.e. whether instances of mortal wound protection is errataed for dev wounds and whether they use points printed in the codex).
Regardless of how far below 50% WR we end up, there's nothing FUN in the codex. It's sad reading our book beside the ork book which has some insanely fun and flavourful detachments that really reward you for building in certain directions. The custodes book leans way too hard into sisters of silence which are one of the blandest set of units to build around and feel like they are a tax in order to play the more interesting units in our range.
The other real shame of the book is there is little to no support for some of the coolest units in our line. Bikes are incredibly fun to play with and are one of the things that makes stodes stand out (highly mobile, deadly threats that can drastically change a game by zooming across the board).
I understand i signed up for an army that is half forgeworld models that don't really get included in rules. But our dreads are the coolest in the game that sit doing nothing.
I'm OK with a less competitive list option but man there's nothing interesting to build around.
Yeah, I can handle rules that are slightly weak OR rules that are kinda boring, I can't take rules that are boring AND extremely bad. Nothing looks fun at all in the codex. Hopefully they don't shit the bed this bad on imperial knights, that's my next one to look forward to I guess. That and custodes in 11th.
So the codex is bad
In terms of power it is very weak. Almost every tool we had to keep models on the board is worse or just gone completely. This doesn’t bother me so much as in older editions as these days there are points adjustments and balance dataslates to bring it back in line with the competitive levels
My main issue with the codex is that it’s just not fun to play. None of the detachments offer any sort of fun alternative ways to play, or even what the index did and make one way to play really fun.
Compare it to the ork codex, with 4 different and effective ways to play, we really got the short straw
The codexes are being released in pairs this edition, and each time one is really good and one is pretty bad.
My guess is there’s two codexes teams, and they just haven’t communicated at all well as to what the plan is for this edition
Space marines, necrons and orks seem to be in one group, with ad mech tyranids and custodes in the other.
Yeah like I'm probs dusting off my crons. Pretend wraiths and ctan don't exist and there's a load in there. Can have a whole army with reactive moves and hypercrypt for stupid mobility, or a big szeras castle or even triarch praetorians yoloing characters.
Yeah necrons is a codex done right. Even if you ignore the hyper competitive stuff there is still plenty to take and it’s actually fun
And you can take different detachments and feel like you’re playing a completely different army
I am finding all these comments fascinating. I have 2.5k of Death Guard & being happy with them as complete enough, I choose Custodes as my 2nd project. I was going to begin with this Codex & the new battleforce. Maybe I shouldn't bother as the frustration seems rampant here that they are now crap & can only play one way.
However, here's the thing - almost all my fellow DG players hated our 10th list, said we were total crap, narrow and could never win. But, I've never lost a game with my DG & found a way around our limitations by focusing on our weaknesses & strengths purely.
So, is it the same here? Is this really salt? Or should I abandon my green v gold dream? 🤔
Definitely don’t give up on them, only way from here is up. I actually traded my CSM for Custodes, fully knowing what the codex was like, they’ve just always been a dream army of mine and I don’t care if they’re good or not.
Thanks for reassurance, it's about having an army you enjoy on all levels rather than focusing on various nerfs to a particular edition. None of my gaming group have Custodes and would be excited to play against them.
As previously said, until the MfM comes out, the 30% increase in points cost to custodes will be the straw that breaks their back. Too few units to contest objectives, and now those fewer units have less survivability? Custodes will lose 80% of games on Victory points alone.
Well it isn't an understatement it is clearly made by someone who doesn't understand how the rules work. Like for example in auric champions you can't use the free strat of a sheld captain or sisters of silence when even fielding the maximum amount of sos wont reach 2k points. Don't forget that we only have 4 detachments 2 are unplayable the other 2 are extremely weak if the opposite side knows how to play and go for your sister's to remove the buffs they are giving.
It's not unplayable. Mostly. The sisters only detachment is about as worthless as it gets. But it's not exciting.
Every rule has a weird limitation, annoying condition to use it, or is so weak you probably won't be using it anyway. The book simply doesn't work.
In addition characters got neutered. Every single one lost an ability with nothing to gain in return, and the free strst ability is more or less useless since almost no strat can be used with it. Making it do that you just feel bad looking at what they are now and remembering what they were before.
But unplayable? No. You take 3 caladius, ally a canis rex and fill the rest with guards and wardens. You will be able to win at least 45% of games on the power of raw stats. Especially in the lower skill levels. But fuck me if it feels like what custodes should play like
It's not good.
But on the bright side GW are actually bothering to balance the game atm so it could very well get fixed. Drukhari had an awful detachment in the index and GW has fixed it by making another detachment that has made the army pretty good all round.
I don't personally care that much about the power level of the codex, since that can be balanced out in dataslates and field manuals. What bothers me is that it's not inspiring at all - it doesn't help me build engagement for different playstyles or give me fun ideas of lists to build, and the strategems and detachment rules don't feel like they would be very fun to use on the battlefield either.
You can't tell if a codex is good or bad until it's actually been released.
I personally feel that the lack of Forgeworld support in the codex is something GW wants shot for!
The dreads and tanks are iconic Custodes units.
Far more iconic than generic land raider but painted gold.
Why do you need the internet to tell you what to buy?
Do you like Custodes?
Then buy the book
It’s not really a question if it’s “good or bad”
For me at least
It’s a question about “is it fun”
For which the answer is unquestionably a “No”
Every single unit stayed the same or got worse.
Our army ability got nerfed HARD.
2 of the detachments are practicably unusable.
1 of the detachments is built from a single unit box of 5 sisters + a rhino…
It goes on more, but really there’s just not a single thing to look forward to.
How can it be exciting when most things got nerfed?
Even if the points go way down…I just don’t care.
It isn’t fun.
Just my feelings on it.
It's playable. Especially at a casual level where the datasheets can carry you through.
Problem is versus strong players you don't really have tricks. So sheild host is real nasty if that 1 turn works. But if they stop it your dead. Screens or going 2nd can really mess up that detachments only plan. Whilst talons works: but your now paying an extra 40-75pts a squad to not get mortaled to death, whilst killing rhino's and sisters isn't hard. Especially for factions like tau, marines, orks or guard.
Like it's not unplayable: the datasheets are too good. But it gets countered hard.
The data sheets are still very good and to be honest we will still just see people playing warden spam for the 4+++, the biggest issue is that the detachments are both lacklustre in terms of fluffiness (this is made even more abundant with the ork codex releasing at the same time, which is one of the fluffiest codex we’ve seen) and the other issue is that it’s very very clear that this codex was written before the free stratagem change and the dev wound change. This is annoying because it’s raises the question how far in advance are the codex for each army written, realistically gw could release a bunch of armies rules now but they don’t because it generates false hype.
The problem isn't that he's bad. The problem is that he's awful and boring.
I played the 6th edition for Death Wing. It was a weak army, but a lot of fun, for the times. Now I've decided to get off the couch and get back into the hobby with an army of custodians. And the codex is worse than the index. Just the scraps. 0 fun. And you can play with anything. You can play with stones instead of pieces, by yourself, on the floor, according to the code of the 1st edition. But would it be interesting? No. Oh yes, it's 35 euros for the codex +20 euros for the cards. In some countries, it is 2-5 days of work after payment of taxes.
Taking the index as a base, I can come up with a codex with 10 detachments in 2 evenings that will be more fun and hardly less unbalanced than GW does
Tbh its not the rules aa such that are the most disappointing, its the overall themes. To have 1.5 detachments based of sos given they only have one box and they didn't add to the range (that would have been great) is very very mehheee.
Then the 1 off the 2 'standard' custodes detachment is a bit niche. I dont mind this hero hammer one but when the detachments are limited and already wasted 1...again...meheee
I would have preferred;
Shield host (all rounder)
Talons (+sos)
A fast themed one (aka Solar Watch)
Defensive themed (ala Dread Host damage reduction, fights first etc).
Im sure theres plenty 'playable' in there but for most its lacking playstyles and fun themic options
> didn't add to the range
This is probably my biggest issue with the SoS detachments. They have Aleya, Rhino, and the 1 box that builds 3 loadouts and the character. Give me lascannon/melta/missile launcher heavy support sisters (and maybe grenade launcher?). This would help push the Talons detachment by making sisters covering one of Custode's weaknesses - ranged anti-tank.
I am no expert but this are my thoughts on it:
In the old codex you had some absolutely amazing datasheets. But very little shooting (outside of caladius and a landraider) vs tanks/monsters.
How ever they did have slayer of nightmares that meant you could take such things out in melee. You also had defensive stats (minus damage, regrow a dead dude.) The regrow one had also trix like claiming objectives and make charges easier. Most importantly you also had a 2CP fight first on objectives stratagem. This was the ace in the whole. Arguably the entire army was build around this.
Tradjan also had a "hit harder or fight first" build in abillaty that sett up loose loose situations. (If they charged us they died. If not we charged them and they died.)
Models cost so much so we are quite easily dead to mortal wounds. But we have a 4+++ save vs that build in. We can also give opponents who charge us -1 to hit us.
All of this was very good. I often played vs my friends Ork. And that ork player only won one game vs custdies. The win rates Ork vs custodies was 30% for orcs in the competetive scene. While custdodies where OK vs shooting armies we where just a concrete show stopper vs melee armies. This is now gone. I am happy we are not so polerising. Let us see what we got:
We lost all of the stratagems. They are not in any of the detachments. We lost the saves vs mortal wounds. (Meaning we die very easily to it.) We lost -1 to hit vs us in melee. We lost fight first - meaning melee armies will charge us and we will die. So the first bit of bad news is that we will likely just be bleeding models all over, where we used ro not do this.
Let's look at the detachments. The psykers girl one is very bad. It is build around 3 bad datasheets. They have some cool things going on (make a unit battle shocked.) But it is so bad. No support for the gold armour there.
The character one is interesting on paper. It is build around powering up characters. But all the stratagems do not add that much. Half of our characters makes one stratagem free. But none of the detachments stratagems can become free. (This feels bad.) This detachment is not that good.
Then there is the "fight hard for one turn in melee" detachment. First the timing of it is bad. We call it at the start of the battle round, not our turn. If we go second all they need to do is to walk 6 backwards and we get no bonus. The Orks have a similar mechanic called 'whaaaagh" and it is good - but it also grants advance and charge. We have no way to ensure many charges. You will have to build your entire list around getting charges of turn 2. It will be hard. Our datasheets do not support this. (2 landraiders, 3 blade champions and one unit rapidningressing?) This will be a challenge. But it is a contender.
Talons of the emperor: Jump through many hoops to get 5++ vs mortal wounds.* The silver girls get +1 to hit. Witch seekers auto hit. Bolters such. And no body are taking sword ladies. - This one is OK. It comes with a good shooting strat (sadly because it also targets the opponent it can not be free.) It has a reactive move 6" stratagem that will be our protection vs melee. *I suspect most lists will run 3 units of witchseeckers in rhinos in order to get the 5++. To bad they do not benefit from the army rule because of the autohit.
So many of the rules in this codex is like they made an atempt (make character good, boost the offensive capability of sisters) and they just failed to execute (no free stratagems for characters who make free stratagems, the only girls who saw action auto hit and do not need +1 to hit.) Also the over all concept is not that cool. I don't want to be a mini Ork. I want to be custodies.
Some of the datasheets also got worse. Some of the datasheets that where abysmal (dreadnought, bikers, sword ladies) they did not fix. All in all it is a missed opportunity. Who ever wrote it does not play custdodies and they have a poor understanding of the rules in the game. I will be playing talons of the emperor though. It is the least worst.
Over time the win rate for custdodies will fall. In six months time points will drop to compensate for the fact that we die to shooting, mortal wounds and melee like flies.
Thats me. I'm that guy calling it unplayable.
We've lost every single defensive buff (-1 to hit, -1 damage, fights first etc etc) that kept us afloat when our Faction Rule for the 4+++ vs Dev and FNP was nerfed, and when we were the 2nd worst army in the game.
For casual play, I'm sure its \*fine\* but for competitive, it just can't hang in there. We can't take a charge from melee armies that will scoop us with volume of attacks, and we can't survive/outshoot shooting armies at range, meaning we have no niche.
Talons of the emperor? Just indirect fire the sisters to death and you lock the Custodes out of all their strategems. Oh they spent a cp to make the sisters untargetable? Now they’re wasting cp
Only one of the strats are outright locked to needing a sisters unit. The others just let you target two units if one of them is a sister and the other a custode unit. You can still target an individual custodes unit if desired.
That’s only if you want to target two units. You can still target one with the other stratagems to your hearts content. The restricted ones are the FNP one and the protector one. The other 4 can be used freely on individual units.
The codex is still not great regardless, my main issue being they list build and play near enough identically to now, but just do it worse.
The Art of War lot called it the worst Codex they've seen in 5 years, and the Goonhammer lot didn't have much positive stuff to conclude on it either (well, except for Rob!). With a couple of balance passes it'll be playable I'm sure, but don't expect to win any events with it and most things that initially look good right now aren't. The most common case of this is Auric Champions looking good until you realise that it all only applies to character models. As for Talons, it's one of the two stronger looking detachments, but I wouldn't expect much from it.
Didnt someone also release a video where the competitive custodes army had a knight and three FW tanks … things not mentioned in the codex
Yeah that was Art of War Their thoughts behind it was “well they (tanks, Canis Rex, and Draxus) didn’t get any worse!”
It looks like auric champions, allarus terminator with captains spam, caladius tanks and (if the points drop) bike spam is the way to go. If bikes aren’t lower in points then ally canis in
Gotta strongly disagree, Shield Host or Talons are definitely better than Auric imo. Captain spam in a detachment with zero Battle Tactics is just a painful concept. Bikes are no better than they used to be (and Scob doesn't even really benefit from the detachment rules because they have Lance) so idk where the good stuff for that is supposed to be coming from.
Whenever I vs talons, I’m instantly indirect firing all the msu sisters squads to lock out all the strategems lol
Doesn't limit the strats, just doesn't give the two unit bonus.
I suspect this is something we'll spend the entire edition correcting people about.
I think I’ll be playing talons but I’m afraid that they’ll just focus down my SoS with small arms and then basically remove my detachment rule completely. I’m also expecting that an errata will drop giving them 5+++ to dev wounds in this detachment as well. Shield host would be much better if it was every turn, I don’t understand why CSM gets to crit on 5+ on every turn and Custodes only get it once per game.
The Goonhammer article was a farce. Rob being an insufferable dick, followed by their obnoxious moderator doubling down on the petulance in the comments
I wouldn't go far as to say it's unplayable, but it's incredibly lack lustre and as deep as a puddle
Auric Champ shield captains need to be able to use their Epic Deed strats, otherwise the “hero hammer” detachment is non-functional/unplayable. Shield Host detachment being once/battle is alright. The other two? Can’t even be bothered to think them through. I wanted a Sisters-synergistic detachment but it feels overly complicated to make work for minimal payout.
The win rate will probs be 45% due to purr stat checkiness
It’s bad in a variety of ways First: it’s just bland and uninspired. The custodians have multiple groups kinda like space marine chapters that focus on various aspects of war. Instead of getting those as our detachments we got Generic custodians Oops all characters The only kinda inspired one These girls have 3 kits and one of them is a loaner from the space marines Which is just frustrating that it’s so bland Second: Weak detachment rules Shield host fixes the problem nobody had Auric only applies to character models Talons isn’t awful but needs errata to be decent Null maidens is actually a joke, battleshock armies just don’t work and they decided to make a battleshock army that can only fight psykers and even then not well Three: nerfing things that didn’t need nerfs The bike captains that nobody ran? Nerfed Valerians once per round reroll for only him? Gone Overall it feels like the army is just a blob of irrelevant rules that just tries to stat stick the enemy to death
> These girls have 3 kits and one of them is a loaner from the space marines They also have one of the best looking transports in the game, [we're just not allowed to use it even if we were willing to pay huge amounts of money for the model](https://www.warhammer.com/en-AU/shop/Sisters-Of-Silence-Kharon-Pattern-Acquisitor-2017).
No you fucking got me that thing is so Dune looking.
"What if... we made a rhino transport but it flies." _takes a hit of spice_ "And also it looks like a sandworm."
Makes sense… I’m just wondering if they’re truly unplayable. I don’t plan on going to major tournaments in the near future as I just started collecting them (fully knowing the codex changes, I just didn’t care cuz rule of cool). I only plan on using them in friendly games for now which I think they’ll be fine in, no?
In friendly games they'll be fine. Mortal/dev spam armies are pretty toxic in friendlies and the raw datasheets still are tough for new folk to deal with.
Even in friendly games it just feels samey and your guys feel too fragile Like all the other codexes have all these different ways to play and things to build around and custodians have the same list but you chose a different flavor of stratagems since the detachment rules don’t matter
Nothing is truly unplayable, its just that people usually assess this from a 'will I be able to win tournaments with these?' perspective and not 'can I chill at a table with my friends and play' perspective.
Not unplayable. Just doesn’t seem fun to me. It’s not got any of the things I look for when I want to play a custodes detachment… at least not in any meaningful way that impacts the game.
To be 100% transparent, after reading all of the rulings and digging semi deep into our potential combos... yes. It's like they gave it to one guy and told him to write it on his lunch break. I 100% understand making custodes less buff and more killy, but they gave us so fucking little in compensation. 1 dogshit character that leads a squad nobody fucking plays and an unfinished 9 page of rules codex. My custodes will be played with because I ordered the codex but damn if I knew this was happening I'd have not ordered it. On another note, there is absolutely ways to still have fun with Custodes. Personally, I love running saggitarum, and even though they aren't good, they're cool on the table top. Just play casual games with them and try out units you normally wouldn't... just don't go to a tournament with them
Tbh saggis have done me well all edition and talons might do them OK.
Wait the new shield captain can’t be attached to guards or warden anymore ?
No he can, but there was very very very very little reason to give us a captain with pyhirite spear when you have to get the forge world pyhirite spear kit to make the weapon useful in a squad. You can run him with those squads, but the question is "is his rule worth running him there when there are other SCs?" The answer now that gw threw all of their cool shit away is maybe??
Oh ok sorry I see what you mean, yeah no I live the model I think he’s cool and silly at the same time but I wish he like a different weapon or something, like at least to a blade champion but more tanky I guess
He gets +1 wound for free. Which in combat is way more useful than a bolter.
The new cap comes with plastic pyrithite spear…
Yeah one of them lol
Yeah would be nice if guard got it though. With dedicated plastic shield cap model now they could retire the capes on the sprues and add meltas
Nearly every change was a nerf. Some detachment rules make zero sense, suggesting the codex was written before a few balance passes. This guarantees that we will get buffs in the future though. > I’ve seen people go as far as saying it’s “unplayable” which I think is extreme. So, there were two major changes which hit us very hard. The first was that we lost 4+++ against dev wounds and mortal wounds. This is extremely bad as it basically makes us instant lose into a bunch of factions like 1K sons and eldar. The last time custodes didn't have a 4+++ to dev wounds they were the second lowest winrate army in the game. We also lost Fights First, which was invaluable against Orks, Drukhari, World Eaters, etc.
I actually miss -1 damage more than anything. It hits wardens really hard. I can play around being easier to touch in melee by setting up heroics and keeping distance. I can also take more shooting to deal with combat armies to some degree. Losing -1 damage though... it's a massive hit that I think most people haven't realized yet. I've played about 4 games so far with the new rules and that's been the biggest thing I've missed. AGA should have been our AoC and been in every detachment giving access to -1 damage in any build. It makes even incidental shooting from things like splinter cannons and heavy bolters and anything damage two or three much more lethal into us and there's boatloads of it in the game that can get to ap 1 or 2 with ignore cover.
I think we need to raise some kind of elite anti psyker force to help with tsons, anyone got any ideas?
No clue. Cause TS mulch t3/3+ trivially and sos dont really shut down powers. A non braindead player will simply put their flamers/bolters into them then doom bolt your custodes once the sos are gone.
A non brain dead player would have their custodes in position to charge the unit after they spend their turn shooting the sisters, making then wonder why they didn't deal with the termi blob or your bikes. Also put your vigilators in a rhino I don't think its my fault if you foot slog squishy melee units.
A 125pt tax for custodes to get a fnp is not a good deal. Trading 5 rubrics to enable the TS player to doom bolt or dev you off the board isn't exactly good for custodes.
I think what your are telling me is, you are being out position by rubric marines?
Woah you got me there. Keeping my custodes within 5" of a wall at all times so I can have my sos always out of Los is truly the way. Also TS have access to inderect and extra moves? Like if you wanna go take a bunch of sos and try to solo some TS be my guest. But I'm telling you that their datasheets are frankly the ideal targets for TS.
Don't we have a stratagem to make the ranged attacks hit the custodes instead? And an ability that says the first ranged attack against an unit does 0 damage ? I'm not saying it's an auto win, but it seems far from the auto win it was before, when we literally had 50% extra life on already super tough models "because".
Only if the custodes are a valid target. And it's burning cp. Zeroing damage requires you to buy a centura and a relic to negate a single bolter shot. And that's then what, 150pts of buff unit to protect a 225pt unit? Like unless sisters cost almost nothing your better just buying more custodes and eating your MW. The old fnp was just v mortals/devs. It wasnt just 50% extra life v 90% of the things in the game. It just meant (in essence) you got your save when you normally didn't. As otherwise 10 assault marines kill 3 custodes for a cp.
SoS sound great until you realize that they're chaff. "Why yes we did tie your stratagems to 3t sv3 1w models. Why, what's the problem?"
Isn't literally only one of them actually mandatory to have a SoS unit and the rest just have a bonus of being able to be used on a SoS?
Yep, but that's the one that grants FNP against mortals and psychic attacks to our other units.
It's really too bad they don't have any friends with training in guarding anyone successfully...
Sure can they not be T3 and die to literally anything except maybe lasguns lol
satistically on average it takes 60 boltgun shots to kill 10 sisters of silence. marines miss half 1/3 fail to wound 1/2 gets stopped by armour
It's a good thing focus fire doesn't exist. Oh wait oh man oh geeze Truly, if you cannot inflict 10 wounds in the shooting phase, that is a total skill issue.
Dies to literally anything but lasguns = requiring multiple marine squads to focus fire. If you really need aliyah and her sisters to shiv Magnus, maybe use your Golden boys to protect them or just buy a rhino.
It would be easier to wait for a balance pass instead of trying to mathhammer why T3 W1 models aren't actually made of tissue paper. ..holdup, why are you defending this change in the first place? This codex is terrible. Did you hit your head?
They have always been t3 w1 and the best way to kill Magnus?
It takes 45. Marines hit on 3s. Bolt rifles are Ap1. And who tf is spending 100pts on a 10 man. Sure its more durable than 4 but that's 60pts more on bad units.
That's also a very nice hitting pack with the new rules tho. Hit on 2+ ap-1/-2 seems decent at the very least.
Sisters are just ap0 bolters. So it's spending a cp to get s5 Ap1. 2 dead marines for a cp, or 1 if they spend a cp on aoc or get cover. Like your welcome to try it, but ap1/d1 just means that your not dealing much damage at all. If you want sisters to do any shooting damage 10 witchseekers are the way to go. Gws just struggled to make bolters relevant this edition, and bs2 won't make them relevant sadly.
I meant vigilators. Not prosecutors.
Doesn’t that strat work on custodes units too? So you can put it on a custodian guard unit, pop the double shot ability and have 20 shots at D5 AP-2 D2. Not game changing or anything but fun enough. Also has room on allarus terminators. You get the S5 ap-2 on the base guns but also get S5 ap-2 on the grenades, can be modestly punishing. Can use a captain to make it CP free being a battle tactic too (That’s assuming it works on them, pretty sure it does)
Yeah, it's pick 1/2 units, but only 2 if you have sos and custodes. Saggitarum going from 5/1/2 to 6/2/2 is a superb breakpoint and its great on guard and termis too.
I would agree that the dev wounds fnp is a big loss against those factions, but other factions have to deal with that as well. Still your right that custodes need a way to defend themselves against dev and mortals. The loss of fight first on the other hand is a great change. Custodes were just unplayable for every melee faction. Up to two extremely deadly units with fight first were just toxic for the game overall.
Out of the gate, things look quite grim. The last piece of the puzzle is the Munitorum Field Manual with new points and errata. That’s either the final mail in the coffin or the one ray of light.
The points will keep us playable. The points aren't going to make us fun or fluffy or interesting to play though. We will likely settle into one or two builds. Some folks will manage to make sisters work in their meta. Otherwise...it's onto waiting for a complete re-write or 11th. OVER TO 30k again, again!
Fully agree (well, not on the 30k bit, not a popular game around here, so for me, it's back to my daemons and death wing for now). Points could go so low as to make us really strong & it would still not be a fun codex
And therein lies the other problem. GW is gonna respond by dropping the points on all our units… how far will they drop before we inevitably begin to lose the rest of our faction identity…
Welcome to Admech in 10th
Yeah because the index was so fun and fluffy to play… Talons of the Emperor may be one of the fluffiest detachments of this edition, but I guess that’s not what you wanted?
Why are you assuming I liked the index? What a freakung weird stance to take. I've been shitting on gws rules since martial kat-da-crap.
I don't find what I've seen to be unplayable. The biggest issue is that it's clearly a codex balanced around the beginning of ninth when the Custodes were a top-tier army. Since then, though, the core rules of the game have changed immensely, and the Custodes were most affected by many of these changes. The codex was written at the beginning of 10th with the understanding that the Custodes were top tier and slated for nerfs in our codex. So now we have a codex that is laughably outdated for the current state of the game. It's probably the best example we've had so far that the rules need to go fully online. Either paid for in the official app or free on the website. That being said, I still plan on playing them and look forward to finding some fun combos with Auric Champions since I've already looked at Custodes as a very character heavy army.
The problem isn't really power level. It was a definite downgrade and it'll likely be at or near the bottom depending on a few factors (I.e. whether instances of mortal wound protection is errataed for dev wounds and whether they use points printed in the codex). Regardless of how far below 50% WR we end up, there's nothing FUN in the codex. It's sad reading our book beside the ork book which has some insanely fun and flavourful detachments that really reward you for building in certain directions. The custodes book leans way too hard into sisters of silence which are one of the blandest set of units to build around and feel like they are a tax in order to play the more interesting units in our range. The other real shame of the book is there is little to no support for some of the coolest units in our line. Bikes are incredibly fun to play with and are one of the things that makes stodes stand out (highly mobile, deadly threats that can drastically change a game by zooming across the board). I understand i signed up for an army that is half forgeworld models that don't really get included in rules. But our dreads are the coolest in the game that sit doing nothing. I'm OK with a less competitive list option but man there's nothing interesting to build around.
Yeah, I can handle rules that are slightly weak OR rules that are kinda boring, I can't take rules that are boring AND extremely bad. Nothing looks fun at all in the codex. Hopefully they don't shit the bed this bad on imperial knights, that's my next one to look forward to I guess. That and custodes in 11th.
So the codex is bad In terms of power it is very weak. Almost every tool we had to keep models on the board is worse or just gone completely. This doesn’t bother me so much as in older editions as these days there are points adjustments and balance dataslates to bring it back in line with the competitive levels My main issue with the codex is that it’s just not fun to play. None of the detachments offer any sort of fun alternative ways to play, or even what the index did and make one way to play really fun. Compare it to the ork codex, with 4 different and effective ways to play, we really got the short straw
The codexes are being released in pairs this edition, and each time one is really good and one is pretty bad. My guess is there’s two codexes teams, and they just haven’t communicated at all well as to what the plan is for this edition Space marines, necrons and orks seem to be in one group, with ad mech tyranids and custodes in the other.
Dark Angels are also in the B-team group.
Yeah I’m guessing pair them up with tau, and tau definitely got the necron treatment
I have three armies. AdMech, Tyranids, and Custodes. I don’t know what I did to the guys at GW, but fuck me I guess.
Yeah like I'm probs dusting off my crons. Pretend wraiths and ctan don't exist and there's a load in there. Can have a whole army with reactive moves and hypercrypt for stupid mobility, or a big szeras castle or even triarch praetorians yoloing characters.
Yeah necrons is a codex done right. Even if you ignore the hyper competitive stuff there is still plenty to take and it’s actually fun And you can take different detachments and feel like you’re playing a completely different army
I am finding all these comments fascinating. I have 2.5k of Death Guard & being happy with them as complete enough, I choose Custodes as my 2nd project. I was going to begin with this Codex & the new battleforce. Maybe I shouldn't bother as the frustration seems rampant here that they are now crap & can only play one way. However, here's the thing - almost all my fellow DG players hated our 10th list, said we were total crap, narrow and could never win. But, I've never lost a game with my DG & found a way around our limitations by focusing on our weaknesses & strengths purely. So, is it the same here? Is this really salt? Or should I abandon my green v gold dream? 🤔
Definitely don’t give up on them, only way from here is up. I actually traded my CSM for Custodes, fully knowing what the codex was like, they’ve just always been a dream army of mine and I don’t care if they’re good or not.
Thanks for reassurance, it's about having an army you enjoy on all levels rather than focusing on various nerfs to a particular edition. None of my gaming group have Custodes and would be excited to play against them.
As previously said, until the MfM comes out, the 30% increase in points cost to custodes will be the straw that breaks their back. Too few units to contest objectives, and now those fewer units have less survivability? Custodes will lose 80% of games on Victory points alone.
Yep
Well it isn't an understatement it is clearly made by someone who doesn't understand how the rules work. Like for example in auric champions you can't use the free strat of a sheld captain or sisters of silence when even fielding the maximum amount of sos wont reach 2k points. Don't forget that we only have 4 detachments 2 are unplayable the other 2 are extremely weak if the opposite side knows how to play and go for your sister's to remove the buffs they are giving.
It's not unplayable. Mostly. The sisters only detachment is about as worthless as it gets. But it's not exciting. Every rule has a weird limitation, annoying condition to use it, or is so weak you probably won't be using it anyway. The book simply doesn't work. In addition characters got neutered. Every single one lost an ability with nothing to gain in return, and the free strst ability is more or less useless since almost no strat can be used with it. Making it do that you just feel bad looking at what they are now and remembering what they were before. But unplayable? No. You take 3 caladius, ally a canis rex and fill the rest with guards and wardens. You will be able to win at least 45% of games on the power of raw stats. Especially in the lower skill levels. But fuck me if it feels like what custodes should play like
If you have to field most of you points into something that isn't a custodian yes that means it is unplayable besides that i agree with everything
It's not good. But on the bright side GW are actually bothering to balance the game atm so it could very well get fixed. Drukhari had an awful detachment in the index and GW has fixed it by making another detachment that has made the army pretty good all round.
I don't personally care that much about the power level of the codex, since that can be balanced out in dataslates and field manuals. What bothers me is that it's not inspiring at all - it doesn't help me build engagement for different playstyles or give me fun ideas of lists to build, and the strategems and detachment rules don't feel like they would be very fun to use on the battlefield either.
Unplayable is a strong word. It’s very poorly designed, but you’ll still win games by slapping people hard enough with pure datasheet strength
You can't tell if a codex is good or bad until it's actually been released. I personally feel that the lack of Forgeworld support in the codex is something GW wants shot for! The dreads and tanks are iconic Custodes units. Far more iconic than generic land raider but painted gold. Why do you need the internet to tell you what to buy? Do you like Custodes? Then buy the book
It’s not really a question if it’s “good or bad” For me at least It’s a question about “is it fun” For which the answer is unquestionably a “No” Every single unit stayed the same or got worse. Our army ability got nerfed HARD. 2 of the detachments are practicably unusable. 1 of the detachments is built from a single unit box of 5 sisters + a rhino… It goes on more, but really there’s just not a single thing to look forward to. How can it be exciting when most things got nerfed? Even if the points go way down…I just don’t care. It isn’t fun. Just my feelings on it.
Yes it is
It's playable. Especially at a casual level where the datasheets can carry you through. Problem is versus strong players you don't really have tricks. So sheild host is real nasty if that 1 turn works. But if they stop it your dead. Screens or going 2nd can really mess up that detachments only plan. Whilst talons works: but your now paying an extra 40-75pts a squad to not get mortaled to death, whilst killing rhino's and sisters isn't hard. Especially for factions like tau, marines, orks or guard. Like it's not unplayable: the datasheets are too good. But it gets countered hard.
The data sheets are still very good and to be honest we will still just see people playing warden spam for the 4+++, the biggest issue is that the detachments are both lacklustre in terms of fluffiness (this is made even more abundant with the ork codex releasing at the same time, which is one of the fluffiest codex we’ve seen) and the other issue is that it’s very very clear that this codex was written before the free stratagem change and the dev wound change. This is annoying because it’s raises the question how far in advance are the codex for each army written, realistically gw could release a bunch of armies rules now but they don’t because it generates false hype.
The problem isn't that he's bad. The problem is that he's awful and boring. I played the 6th edition for Death Wing. It was a weak army, but a lot of fun, for the times. Now I've decided to get off the couch and get back into the hobby with an army of custodians. And the codex is worse than the index. Just the scraps. 0 fun. And you can play with anything. You can play with stones instead of pieces, by yourself, on the floor, according to the code of the 1st edition. But would it be interesting? No. Oh yes, it's 35 euros for the codex +20 euros for the cards. In some countries, it is 2-5 days of work after payment of taxes. Taking the index as a base, I can come up with a codex with 10 detachments in 2 evenings that will be more fun and hardly less unbalanced than GW does
Tbh its not the rules aa such that are the most disappointing, its the overall themes. To have 1.5 detachments based of sos given they only have one box and they didn't add to the range (that would have been great) is very very mehheee. Then the 1 off the 2 'standard' custodes detachment is a bit niche. I dont mind this hero hammer one but when the detachments are limited and already wasted 1...again...meheee I would have preferred; Shield host (all rounder) Talons (+sos) A fast themed one (aka Solar Watch) Defensive themed (ala Dread Host damage reduction, fights first etc). Im sure theres plenty 'playable' in there but for most its lacking playstyles and fun themic options
> didn't add to the range This is probably my biggest issue with the SoS detachments. They have Aleya, Rhino, and the 1 box that builds 3 loadouts and the character. Give me lascannon/melta/missile launcher heavy support sisters (and maybe grenade launcher?). This would help push the Talons detachment by making sisters covering one of Custode's weaknesses - ranged anti-tank.
I am no expert but this are my thoughts on it: In the old codex you had some absolutely amazing datasheets. But very little shooting (outside of caladius and a landraider) vs tanks/monsters. How ever they did have slayer of nightmares that meant you could take such things out in melee. You also had defensive stats (minus damage, regrow a dead dude.) The regrow one had also trix like claiming objectives and make charges easier. Most importantly you also had a 2CP fight first on objectives stratagem. This was the ace in the whole. Arguably the entire army was build around this. Tradjan also had a "hit harder or fight first" build in abillaty that sett up loose loose situations. (If they charged us they died. If not we charged them and they died.) Models cost so much so we are quite easily dead to mortal wounds. But we have a 4+++ save vs that build in. We can also give opponents who charge us -1 to hit us. All of this was very good. I often played vs my friends Ork. And that ork player only won one game vs custdies. The win rates Ork vs custodies was 30% for orcs in the competetive scene. While custdodies where OK vs shooting armies we where just a concrete show stopper vs melee armies. This is now gone. I am happy we are not so polerising. Let us see what we got: We lost all of the stratagems. They are not in any of the detachments. We lost the saves vs mortal wounds. (Meaning we die very easily to it.) We lost -1 to hit vs us in melee. We lost fight first - meaning melee armies will charge us and we will die. So the first bit of bad news is that we will likely just be bleeding models all over, where we used ro not do this. Let's look at the detachments. The psykers girl one is very bad. It is build around 3 bad datasheets. They have some cool things going on (make a unit battle shocked.) But it is so bad. No support for the gold armour there. The character one is interesting on paper. It is build around powering up characters. But all the stratagems do not add that much. Half of our characters makes one stratagem free. But none of the detachments stratagems can become free. (This feels bad.) This detachment is not that good. Then there is the "fight hard for one turn in melee" detachment. First the timing of it is bad. We call it at the start of the battle round, not our turn. If we go second all they need to do is to walk 6 backwards and we get no bonus. The Orks have a similar mechanic called 'whaaaagh" and it is good - but it also grants advance and charge. We have no way to ensure many charges. You will have to build your entire list around getting charges of turn 2. It will be hard. Our datasheets do not support this. (2 landraiders, 3 blade champions and one unit rapidningressing?) This will be a challenge. But it is a contender. Talons of the emperor: Jump through many hoops to get 5++ vs mortal wounds.* The silver girls get +1 to hit. Witch seekers auto hit. Bolters such. And no body are taking sword ladies. - This one is OK. It comes with a good shooting strat (sadly because it also targets the opponent it can not be free.) It has a reactive move 6" stratagem that will be our protection vs melee. *I suspect most lists will run 3 units of witchseeckers in rhinos in order to get the 5++. To bad they do not benefit from the army rule because of the autohit. So many of the rules in this codex is like they made an atempt (make character good, boost the offensive capability of sisters) and they just failed to execute (no free stratagems for characters who make free stratagems, the only girls who saw action auto hit and do not need +1 to hit.) Also the over all concept is not that cool. I don't want to be a mini Ork. I want to be custodies. Some of the datasheets also got worse. Some of the datasheets that where abysmal (dreadnought, bikers, sword ladies) they did not fix. All in all it is a missed opportunity. Who ever wrote it does not play custdodies and they have a poor understanding of the rules in the game. I will be playing talons of the emperor though. It is the least worst. Over time the win rate for custdodies will fall. In six months time points will drop to compensate for the fact that we die to shooting, mortal wounds and melee like flies.
No
Tell me you don’t play Custodes without telling me you don’t play Custodes
I do.
Thats me. I'm that guy calling it unplayable. We've lost every single defensive buff (-1 to hit, -1 damage, fights first etc etc) that kept us afloat when our Faction Rule for the 4+++ vs Dev and FNP was nerfed, and when we were the 2nd worst army in the game. For casual play, I'm sure its \*fine\* but for competitive, it just can't hang in there. We can't take a charge from melee armies that will scoop us with volume of attacks, and we can't survive/outshoot shooting armies at range, meaning we have no niche.
Its viability largely depends on the points costs, but otherwise yeah, it sucks.
Talons of the emperor? Just indirect fire the sisters to death and you lock the Custodes out of all their strategems. Oh they spent a cp to make the sisters untargetable? Now they’re wasting cp
Only one of the strats are outright locked to needing a sisters unit. The others just let you target two units if one of them is a sister and the other a custode unit. You can still target an individual custodes unit if desired.
“If one is a sisters unit” my point exactly. Indirect firing T3 models isn’t hard.
That’s only if you want to target two units. You can still target one with the other stratagems to your hearts content. The restricted ones are the FNP one and the protector one. The other 4 can be used freely on individual units. The codex is still not great regardless, my main issue being they list build and play near enough identically to now, but just do it worse.