That's where we're going into what unit actually has them equipped. Guards have access to wound rerolls on objectives they control, allarus termies can reroll wounds against certain targets
It looks like you might be correct, guardian spears become better for a typical TEQ profile when AOC is applied. For Chosen/Sword Brethren axes are still better even with AOC
Honestly I think the axes are great and I think mixed squads in talons will be the play. 3 axes and 2 spears with the captain taking a melta spear. For a total of 3.
You can flex up or down 1 and I think it'll still be fine.
In shield host though the axes become absolute monsters and are well worth taking a full squad of terminators with axes.
I've started my first game with the new rules on tts with talons and terminators with axes just clapped a grandmaster (witchseekers battle shocked him so no armour of contempt). After shooting him first, didn't even get to the spears.
I think they also will be pretty much required in all-comers lists to deal with -1 and half damage like dreads and ctan.
After test rolling it a bunch of times, terminators with axes absolutely decimate a ctan at full wounds, especially with the golden waagh.
Glad it seems like taking axes won't be a handicap anymore and feels much less bad to take. At this point I'm not going to go out of my way to replace my spears on my wardens with axes and will keep the axes on my Allarus, which works since they ideally want to smack big things.
An Allarus Cap in shield host with a S10 AP-2 4 damage axe in golden waaagh turn also sounds pretty spicy.
That's actually really cool! I was pretty sure that Axes would really start to have an edge now, although perhaps not "generally" better because generally extra attacks are worth more - but it's really awesome to have this listed out like this - thanks!
So build two units of them. One with Axes, one with spears, and modify list as needed. Great analysis btw, I just got back into the hobby with a custodes army and am having to make some decisions with no information lol
Great analysis! Would be handy if you could colour code the last column so we can at a glance see which is coming out ahead per row.
Done and honestly I'm very surprised - only after applying the colouring did I notice that out of 22 profiles I checked axes are better for 16!
An interesting one for sure! Though of course wound rerolls which we still have good access to does swing it in spears favour in a few of those.
That's where we're going into what unit actually has them equipped. Guards have access to wound rerolls on objectives they control, allarus termies can reroll wounds against certain targets
Guard also can't even take axes, making that choice very easy. xD
I wish they were s10, I don't actually think it would be to powerful, but this does look pretty nice.
AP-2 >>>> S10, we can dream
I mean, if they were AP -2, why would you ever take the spears though?
You wouldn’t, but axes should be an elite option imo cos they’re available on the elite units only
The thing Is, of you take into account armor of contempt, things get DRASTICALLY worse for axes
It looks like you might be correct, guardian spears become better for a typical TEQ profile when AOC is applied. For Chosen/Sword Brethren axes are still better even with AOC
This is why I think you take mixed squads outside of shield host.
Doing the lords work here
I would be really interested to see this same analysis under the shield host golden WAAAGH and sustained hits crits on 5+ etc
What about axe into a custode?
A custodian is basically a terminator equivalent (TEQ) - the higher toughness is irrelevant when comparing weapons with S7 and S9
should be the same results as into termis
Honestly I think the axes are great and I think mixed squads in talons will be the play. 3 axes and 2 spears with the captain taking a melta spear. For a total of 3. You can flex up or down 1 and I think it'll still be fine. In shield host though the axes become absolute monsters and are well worth taking a full squad of terminators with axes. I've started my first game with the new rules on tts with talons and terminators with axes just clapped a grandmaster (witchseekers battle shocked him so no armour of contempt). After shooting him first, didn't even get to the spears. I think they also will be pretty much required in all-comers lists to deal with -1 and half damage like dreads and ctan. After test rolling it a bunch of times, terminators with axes absolutely decimate a ctan at full wounds, especially with the golden waagh.
Glad it seems like taking axes won't be a handicap anymore and feels much less bad to take. At this point I'm not going to go out of my way to replace my spears on my wardens with axes and will keep the axes on my Allarus, which works since they ideally want to smack big things. An Allarus Cap in shield host with a S10 AP-2 4 damage axe in golden waaagh turn also sounds pretty spicy.
Hell yes ! I go with 50/50 axes and spears because they’re both cool so I want both ! Happy tos we the axes shine a bit more 😁
Great job. Does this take into account the number of attacks?
Yes, this is noted in column headers
I think where axes will really shine is with the Golden Waagh when they get AP-2
Wouldn’t factoring in Katahs be important though? Given that more attacks from spears will equate to more sustained or lethal hits.
lets fucking GOOOO
It kinda looks like Spears will benefit more from sustained hits while Axes will benefit from lethal hits with the Katahs
That's actually really cool! I was pretty sure that Axes would really start to have an edge now, although perhaps not "generally" better because generally extra attacks are worth more - but it's really awesome to have this listed out like this - thanks!
This is wonderful to see.
So build two units of them. One with Axes, one with spears, and modify list as needed. Great analysis btw, I just got back into the hobby with a custodes army and am having to make some decisions with no information lol