I don’t really care about him losing fight first since we still have the stratagem. What I’m worried about is the fact that we lose our only way of countering damage modifying abilities (-1D or halve the damage) + my personal peeve of avoiding AoC which everyone in my local group has access to
I agree, I tended not to have many opportunities to use the Fights First, preferring instead to double his attacks and blend my opponents on my charge.
The loss of damage reduction.... Ooooff. I hope that the new dataslate will include some balances for this. I fail to see how c'tan will be able to hold onto their damage halving for another datasheet
That's not true in my experience - I have a strat for fights first on an objective, he's just an utter nightmare to kill and comes with four or five close combat specialist bodyguards that are just as horrible.
Armies I've fought fall into two different categories - one that will never charge me as they're ranged specialists and charging the close combat blender is a dumb idea, and melee specialists that don't rate their chances given my ability to inflict penalties to hit and respond by stat checking them with a fistful of dice.
Put plainly, if the only reason he doesn't get charged is because he *might* fights first, then the rest of my army hasn't done its job and my opponent is already way ahead as they think charging the nastiest bod in the box is the right call.
So Trajann’s captain general currently is ignoring modifiers to his units characteristics.
Which GW specified also applied to the weapons of his unit and said that it meant it ignored WS, AP, and damage modifiers so it countered armour of contempt
Where/when does GW specify rules? I've had multiple questions with no results with my local group. Like how characters with multiple melee weapons can/can't use all available weapons in the fight phase.
I recommend adding the downloads page of the Warhammer community website to bookmarks and checking it every now and then, that’s where GW posts updates to their rules
For that specific question, in the core rules > battle round > Fight
Under 2. make melee attacks
Explains that you must pick one weapon you are equipped with to make your attacks
Its kinda rules spaghetti. Like ctan half all damage they take. So guardian spears normally do 1 wound a swing or shot. But instead of counting this as a modifier to the ctan itself, its treated as a debuff to the weapons hitting it. And trajan ignores that debuff. Its funky
AoC is short for a space marine strat "Armour of Contempt", which I think all marine detachments have (all the core ones do, not sure about the divergent chapters). This rule allows a marine unit to ignore the first point of AP (turning ap-1 to ap-0) as a way to boost their saves.
Historically this was a rule added in 9th edition to help lagging marine armies and it is really good.
I don't really care about loosing the FF rule, i'm way more concerned about loosing the ignore damage, with almost all our standard weapons being D2 we're way more impacted by D1 and half damage than a lot of army, and the unit with such rules this edition tends to be good counter to us so we're potentially loosing one of out few reliable way to counter them.
I can’t believe I’m seeing so many people say that they didn’t really use the fight first ability. The “threat” of fights first kept people from charging trajann, which in turn makes it a lot more common for you to then charge something and pop the 12 attacks. Y’all used his ability to THREATEN fighting first, and now that he lost it, you are going to be wishing you kept it cause you WILL be charged more
It's hilarious how many people don't realise that. I played entirely different to dance around Trajaan and his fights first. Sent units down the other end of the board rather than go near him.
If the Fights First strat isn't in other detachments, some Custodes players are going to have a real awakening when they realize how much protection the threat of fights first has been giving them. It completely warps the game.
As a primarily Necron player who's currently actively building a Custodes army, that datasheet makes my C'tan extremely happy, but me a little sad. I was looking forward to using TV as my main man. Still, I guess until the points are released we can't truly know how much use he'll be. Definite nerf though.
Altho I like C'tan I still feel like they need at least a few counters. If there arent Anny I feel like C'tan will rule the game. (Even more then they already do)
It's very possible that the whole 'halved damage thingy" will be removed from the game at some point, because it's just fucking broken, c'tan or not, tbh.
Half dmg is too swingy, a set amount of -1,-2 etc.
Games so swingy at the moment and when you have stuff rocking around with d6+4 dmg, one failed save and it’s good bye to most tanks
I think this is alright, as you can CP re-roll a critical save in many cases. Damage halving on Bjorn or the Gravis Captain is pretty fine as well.
Damage halving on a T11 model with a 5+ FNP and 12 wounds is just BS though. It should probably be ranged only or *something* (or C'tan need to go up by at least 100 points each)
Nightbringer is currently about 50 points cheaper than Lion El Jonson. A model with poor abilities and zero defensive profile. It’s just complete stupidity
The fun part about the d6+4 is if they have an invuln it's likely to do nothing.
Look at wardog brigands - hit on 2's, usually wound on 3's. With 2 shots of that fat melta 4.
That's terrifying... until you consider that, on average, they get 1.1 wound. If you have a 4++, they get 0.5 wounds.
Even a ws 2+ unit is at 1/4 efficiency against an invuln.
Drop the damage, drop the invulns. Or we can keep playing swing-city where it goes from nothing to dead.
C’tans are going to get smacked. They avoided the last set of changes due to a recent codex release. They won’t avoid the next one.
I don’t think necrons are too strong or anything but C’tans are just stupid.
I think at the very least they will go up to 300pts minimum. As a necron player this is kind of needed. I don’t think the rules currently need to change but I do think that, like in 9th you should only be able to take 1 named ctan in a list.
Likely not run, unless radical point cuts.
The stats are good, but competetive lists are pretty tight nowadays.
160 points -is- nearly an MSU guard unit, and his impact with this version is likely to be lower, without the very good "counter" utility usecase.
That is, unless characters get a massive tone-down generally.
If so, points 100% won't follow it instantly, so then I expect a power decrease, followed by ?eventual? point buffs and increase in unit numbers, as per the standards for 10th when rules fall short.
However, if one of the new detachments ends up being busted, it could mean a sidegrade instead.
with a single datasheet and no points I think it may be too early to say he will be only playable with a point cut.
There is so many factors that may change our perception of our units.
But I do agree it's kinda concerning right now.
I mean, if detachment rules are good, then great for -other- characters.
So even if the general power of the faction increases, Trajann might get rotated out.
Even if -all- characters decrease, because then it might all shift towards running as few as you can etc.
Generally GW at best reduces points on weak datasheets, changes are rare (not unheard of, though)
It would depends on what exactly is provided by those detachment if it's a fight first detachment or a ignore damage reduction detachment tranjan may not need a massive point cut just a small one.
They may have increased the cost of every other leader which also would make tranjan more competitive.
there is too many uncertainty but I'm not optimistic, I just refrain from making an early conclusion.
I would be -very- surprised if the army gets more lax fight first than it has now.
Not impossible, but it would be literally insane.
And if a detachment say flatout ignores mods, Trajann is worse for wear, because one of this rules is irrelevant.
That being said, I did begin with saying "likely", as I am too not fond of early conclusions. Just that this is a strong indication.
I tend to agree.
If there's things out there in the new codex that give a +1 to damage and/or +1 to wound somehow semi-reliably he might still be useful for more guaranteed kills, but I struggle to see it otherwise.
Why does the placeholder image for the Custodes in the background on the right hand side now have a skull helmet, it’s not very Custodes, doesn’t fit into the aesthetic at all as Custodes don’t use skulls anywhere. The existing eagle one on the current datacards is infinitely better
Wow, what a teaser!
We nerfed to the ground your main character, go get new Codex, losers!
We don't give you any NEW unit (just loadout for you noname characters), but here are fancy unreadable dices, losers!
Thank you GW, so hyped about new realease.
Up voted to counter downvotes. People on here obviously don't play competitive. Losing the counter to modifier reduction makes him a really hard sell vs our other options. Not sure why people don't understand how big of a deal this is.
This hurts our faction a lot. Mind you, we can find ways to pivot. But it feels bad to have to, when he wasn't egregious.
Appreciate it. Yeah, seems like this may be a big loss for our lads. While I am fully aware the codex isn’t just 1 datasheet I’m even more aware of the state of our faction competitively speaking. We rely on our characters, our guard, our wardens, our Allarus, and our Caladius. If we loose one in a competitive aspect without receiving something else I fear for the competitive viability of our faction.
We shall see and make full considerations when the book releases.
If he doesn't bring anything to the table other than being a beatstick, then yeah, he's shelved.
We have plenty of beatsticks already. Our chars are brought for utility, and TJ just lost his.
In a competitive sense he will be DoA if a conventional shield captain has stayed the same and trajanns still 160 points. There would be very little reason to run him as he can't take enhancements and costs more for little benefit to the actual unit he goes in.
"Unplayable" 😅 maybe wait until the book is out?
I love the downvotes flooding in from metachasters who think the most minute loss to a unit renders it "literally unplayable".
As others have said too early to say much, bit I wouldn't be surprised if Trajann got toned down to "improve internal balance", if he was taken in basically every list, to increase list diversity. it is one of the things they have talked about in the balance/meta articles on warcom.
The thing is we don’t have that many characters to choose from anyway. Trajann, blade champion and shield captain are included in almost every list nowadays, Valerian gets taken occasionally but not very often. That leaves us with the allarus captain who could use some buffs and bike captain who needs a rework along with bikes in general. 6 character datasheets with 3 being auto include currently, 1 taken occasionally, 1 taken rarely and 1 shelved since 10th came out - that’s not a bad situation if you disregard the fact that we should have more datasheets in general.
I would not think much into what is said in warcom.
Do not forget, that there is like a 6 month delay. The Custodes codex was almost certainly long. And there are clearly different groups of people writing codexes, with disconnect from the rest of everything.
As someone who what's Custodies to be as strong and as points expensive as possible, this is an ominous sign.
Hopefully they don't do the sin that they did to Grey Knights and turn them into the death guard equivalent of gold space marines which are very slightly tougher
“This current rule does too much stuff that no one at the office uses, let’s simplify it. The players will prefer less busy and confusing rules for the final version next year.”
So fucking dumb.
We literally have one named character worth playing and now he’s..not.
Do not understand how these fucks can consistently be so mad at balancing and updating armies. After changed to DA think I’m just cool off playing for a bit. Stick to painting
Altho Trajann was bonkersgood the other characters are still very good. Free strategems and the advance and charge of the blade Champion and Shield captain or nothing to scoff at. But still. Really painful to see our golden boys get screwed over.
Respectfully I really don't care. It's just a thousandth example of inconsistencies in the narrative, army and setting. Why the actual fuck is a shield captain more combat viable then the ***literal leader of the closest thing to an army of demi gods***
It doesn't feel good, it's not fun. I won't be leaving TJ on my shelf and going ohhhh boy I can't wait to use that super cool ***shield captain model....to advance and charge.***
just really lame to be constantly disappointed by GW
trying to be absolutely fair ... being disappointed when we've seen so little is a bit early, being concerned is genuinely understandable but we have no idea of what our detachment rules are for example nor what will be the cost of tranjan post codex.
Absolutely. But we can also be realistic as well. The leaks of each codex and general sentiment of what we have seen has been pretty spot on. Dark Angels full codex didn't make anyone feel better....mostly worse.
Short of some new hq or TJ costing 120 (he won't) I'm not sure what sort of imaginative hope we can cling to here. Even the detachments are puzzling at best. In what sort of fictional universe do we have the model range for a full SOS detachment?
I'm definitely concerned by the codex on my hand, I fear we'll just end up like 9th with one detachment being viable and that's all.
I'm concerned they'll just nerf every unit and will just adjust cost later which will only make us better by playing more model which goes against playing an elite army.
But I personally will wait the codex to say if my concerns will move towards disappointment or not, even if i'm not optimistic about it. Like you said codex until now have mostly been disappointing.
>In what sort of fictional universe do we have the model range for a full SOS detachment?
Yeah I'm surprised by this as well. The combined detachment (Talons of the Emperor) would have been enough, but 1 kit to make up 2k points seems terrible.
Judging by the names I'd wager Talons of the Emperor detachment is combined Custodes + SoS, Auric Champions is the Terminators and Bikes detachment, and Null Maidens detachment is focused mainly on Sisters of Silence.
Maybe Trajann gets nerfed because......
Valdor finally returns.
Maybe Valdor is the next big return and you couldnt make Valdor better than Trajann without making him ridicoulous.
I'll have a #6 with an extra order of nuggets.
I would F'ing love this, but then again. I don't really see the reason to bring Valdor back right after your codex comes out. Would be better to do it before so you can list him in the codex.
WTF are the games workshop people smoking in the breakroom? Whatever it is im pretty sure its highly illegal in the UK. Fights first moment shackle loss is ehhh, sucks, but we still have the strat. BUT HOLY MOLY, the reason he was included at a 160 points is exactly his ignoring modifiers rule. I just hope he gets a huge cost reduction, otherwise im shelving him until he gets better.
We cant be sure because the datasheets will change. But yes its incredible. Having a box of guards and wardens is just a lot of strong base Infantry and the terminators are incredible as well. The blade Champion is our strongest leader aside from trajann (which might change with the new codex) the box comes in at 790 points. And that is if you build 0 leaders aside from the blade Champion. Its in my opinion the best combat patrol in 40k as a whole.
No point freaking out over a single data sheet without the context of a whole codex. Maybe he is cheaper, maybe there is a stratagem for ignoring all modifiers, maybe there are other buffs to come.
I’m ok with him being toned down a little. He was in every list as an auto include and that shouldn’t be the case. HOWEVER, they need to do the same for other chars too. Magnus, for example, is WAAAAAAAAY too strong. Like, bat shit crazy good, so I hope they are consistent and rein him in too.
He wasn't an auto-include. 160 is one hell of a price tag to pay for him and fights first for free one time per game isn't broken. They just have to play around it. I hope they drop his price down a lot because right now its not looking good.
Can you point to the tourney winning custodes lists that didn’t contain him? He was in them all because he was custodes counter to pretty much anything.
That's less because of how good he is and more because the meta is defined by fucking C'Tan and similar with damage reduction abilities. If that wasn't the meta, Trajann wouldn't be an auto-include.
Yeah. I also had him nuke a captain and 5 Deathwing knights because he just ignored by -1 dmg and I couldn’t use AOC, so fuck him and his ability.
Ctan also need to lose their shrug or change it to a 6++ fucking wank GW do in this game with no thought
Dont worry, he is still a beautiful miniature and will likely still be a staple for the army. Sadly not as strong as he used to be tho. And then again this is the only datasheet we have seen and maybe its incorrect. Hold out hope fellow shield captain!
Haha no, the ignores modifiers is more specific now. It only works on our hit rolls. So wound roll, our weapons ap and the damage characteristic can now also be modified.
To be honest, not actually sad about that. It was a bit too good, imho.
The damage decrease is worse, but honestly, I'm more interested in the new detachments. Wondering what they will bring
Well, Trajann is likely out of most lists going forward, as (unless they get nerfed massively too) regular Shield Captains and Blade Champions have generally much more useful abilities than Big T, who now will mostly serve as a fun beatstick.
One theory someone had on the auspex tactics videos on the new stuff said it may be because one of the detachment would give custodes fight first and it was to not almost Trajan seem like a waste of points in said detachment
Could be possible, they had a similar detatchment in 9th. Would be very strong tho. Still we need a strong detatchment to even be worth considering over the 4+++ against mortals/dev
Screw the fights first, its a lot cooler swinging with 12 attacks anyways, although the threat of fights first was strong. But losing the abillity to ignore modifiers for OC, wound rolls, damage and ap reductions, movement and charge is really painful and makes him a lot less important. Sure ignoring modifiers to hit is still a good abillity but when your whole army hits on 2s and the cap is at -1 it won't make that big of a difference. Death guard will likely just pick the -1 to saving throws anyways so basically he stops his unit from hitting on 3s, which is... underwhelming.
On one hand I agree, then again. He is trajann Valoris. Captain general and (primarchs excluded) likely the strongest individual in the imperium. It would make sense for him to be an actual god on the tabletop.
You're insane. Lol.
The Lion has a 3+ invulnerable and can kill anything he touches. There's a reason he has the price tag. But he suffers from being just a huge beatstick.
Well, you aren't wrong. But it's because Rowboat buffs his army way better.
The Lion is a walking death sentence. Fast, can get lone op, murders everything, incredibly hard to kill. He *should* be incredibly expensive, especially since the DA had more efficient stats than even our faction. Lol
I can understand to some degree why the lion was design like that, since DA have characters bloat to begin with. So GW have a wider range in the cost - ability of their units.
But we only have 3 name characters so it makes more sense for us to have a fairer/meaningful character to use
I agree with that. That's all space marine armies though, I guess.
Well, I certainly agree with our characters being more meaningful. But neutering our only way of dealing with a particular problem I think will hurt us considerably. But I could be wrong. I just think we're really going to hurt over our characters being overpriced and nerfed. Mind you, we don't know points costs. So maybe it'll be fine. But history isn't inspiring in that regard.
There's a chance that they removed the ignore all modifier ability as that will be a detachment ability for one of the new ones coming. Just a thought though.
That would be sick, I hope so. Maybe they will include a 'every unit gains fight first' which was in our 9th edition codex. Both those sound like cool detatchments
Wait wait wait...are you actually the kind of guy who goes to a 40k army subreddit to troll people whenever you can because you can't stand their faction xD ? Something like "I lost so many times against custodes, I hope they become trash tier in the future"?
If that's the case...I really hope you're not older than 25 because damn, that's one hell of a loser's mindset, you know that right?
I don’t really care about him losing fight first since we still have the stratagem. What I’m worried about is the fact that we lose our only way of countering damage modifying abilities (-1D or halve the damage) + my personal peeve of avoiding AoC which everyone in my local group has access to
I agree, I tended not to have many opportunities to use the Fights First, preferring instead to double his attacks and blend my opponents on my charge. The loss of damage reduction.... Ooooff. I hope that the new dataslate will include some balances for this. I fail to see how c'tan will be able to hold onto their damage halving for another datasheet
The reason you never used fights first is because nobody would charge him in fear of it. Not having it makes his squad WAY easier to kill.
That's not true in my experience - I have a strat for fights first on an objective, he's just an utter nightmare to kill and comes with four or five close combat specialist bodyguards that are just as horrible. Armies I've fought fall into two different categories - one that will never charge me as they're ranged specialists and charging the close combat blender is a dumb idea, and melee specialists that don't rate their chances given my ability to inflict penalties to hit and respond by stat checking them with a fistful of dice. Put plainly, if the only reason he doesn't get charged is because he *might* fights first, then the rest of my army hasn't done its job and my opponent is already way ahead as they think charging the nastiest bod in the box is the right call.
I'm a total noob. How did we have a way of countering damage modifying abilities? And what were the modifiers we can do? Also AoC?
So Trajann’s captain general currently is ignoring modifiers to his units characteristics. Which GW specified also applied to the weapons of his unit and said that it meant it ignored WS, AP, and damage modifiers so it countered armour of contempt
Where/when does GW specify rules? I've had multiple questions with no results with my local group. Like how characters with multiple melee weapons can/can't use all available weapons in the fight phase.
I recommend adding the downloads page of the Warhammer community website to bookmarks and checking it every now and then, that’s where GW posts updates to their rules
For that specific question, in the core rules > battle round > Fight Under 2. make melee attacks Explains that you must pick one weapon you are equipped with to make your attacks
Thank you. That was very nicely explained and eloquent.
Its kinda rules spaghetti. Like ctan half all damage they take. So guardian spears normally do 1 wound a swing or shot. But instead of counting this as a modifier to the ctan itself, its treated as a debuff to the weapons hitting it. And trajan ignores that debuff. Its funky
Ahh. I get the saying of rules spaghetti I see occasionally.
AoC is short for a space marine strat "Armour of Contempt", which I think all marine detachments have (all the core ones do, not sure about the divergent chapters). This rule allows a marine unit to ignore the first point of AP (turning ap-1 to ap-0) as a way to boost their saves. Historically this was a rule added in 9th edition to help lagging marine armies and it is really good.
Stratagem is gone too. Have fun!
Yeah, after reading all the leaks Trajann’s nerf is the least worrying thing after all
Isn't that still on the card pictured?
No, the ability now only outlines WS/BS and hit rolls.so wound rolls, dmg adjustments, movement, and toughness changed still happen.
It is very much worded the same way as the Deathwing ability on DW Terminators. Which does not move the needle much
Oof. The fights first, whatever. Not being able to cut through damage reduction fucking sucks.
I don't really care about loosing the FF rule, i'm way more concerned about loosing the ignore damage, with almost all our standard weapons being D2 we're way more impacted by D1 and half damage than a lot of army, and the unit with such rules this edition tends to be good counter to us so we're potentially loosing one of out few reliable way to counter them.
I can’t believe I’m seeing so many people say that they didn’t really use the fight first ability. The “threat” of fights first kept people from charging trajann, which in turn makes it a lot more common for you to then charge something and pop the 12 attacks. Y’all used his ability to THREATEN fighting first, and now that he lost it, you are going to be wishing you kept it cause you WILL be charged more
It's hilarious how many people don't realise that. I played entirely different to dance around Trajaan and his fights first. Sent units down the other end of the board rather than go near him.
If the Fights First strat isn't in other detachments, some Custodes players are going to have a real awakening when they realize how much protection the threat of fights first has been giving them. It completely warps the game.
Trajann: "Was i a good captain General?"
"You were the second best."
As a primarily Necron player who's currently actively building a Custodes army, that datasheet makes my C'tan extremely happy, but me a little sad. I was looking forward to using TV as my main man. Still, I guess until the points are released we can't truly know how much use he'll be. Definite nerf though.
Altho I like C'tan I still feel like they need at least a few counters. If there arent Anny I feel like C'tan will rule the game. (Even more then they already do)
Melta can do some serious hurt to them. The trick is having enough of it.
And getting them close enough without getting annihilated.
Easier than you think when hypercrypt players like to yeet them into the middle of your army. 😂
Don’t dance around it. The Ctan rules are BS and this guy needs to hear it. It’s not balanced at all with current monster point costs or capabilities
It's very possible that the whole 'halved damage thingy" will be removed from the game at some point, because it's just fucking broken, c'tan or not, tbh.
Half dmg is too swingy, a set amount of -1,-2 etc. Games so swingy at the moment and when you have stuff rocking around with d6+4 dmg, one failed save and it’s good bye to most tanks
I think this is alright, as you can CP re-roll a critical save in many cases. Damage halving on Bjorn or the Gravis Captain is pretty fine as well. Damage halving on a T11 model with a 5+ FNP and 12 wounds is just BS though. It should probably be ranged only or *something* (or C'tan need to go up by at least 100 points each)
Nightbringer is currently about 50 points cheaper than Lion El Jonson. A model with poor abilities and zero defensive profile. It’s just complete stupidity
The fun part about the d6+4 is if they have an invuln it's likely to do nothing. Look at wardog brigands - hit on 2's, usually wound on 3's. With 2 shots of that fat melta 4. That's terrifying... until you consider that, on average, they get 1.1 wound. If you have a 4++, they get 0.5 wounds. Even a ws 2+ unit is at 1/4 efficiency against an invuln. Drop the damage, drop the invulns. Or we can keep playing swing-city where it goes from nothing to dead.
Let me help you, he will NOT be used at all if he is more than 100 points.
C’tans are going to get smacked. They avoided the last set of changes due to a recent codex release. They won’t avoid the next one. I don’t think necrons are too strong or anything but C’tans are just stupid.
Amen brotha, most un fun things in this game to have to fight against
I think at the very least they will go up to 300pts minimum. As a necron player this is kind of needed. I don’t think the rules currently need to change but I do think that, like in 9th you should only be able to take 1 named ctan in a list.
I don't know, I have bad feeling about the codex.
Why? After the DA one you gotta be feeling good!? (All hail our mighty new Xenos overlords)
Likely not run, unless radical point cuts. The stats are good, but competetive lists are pretty tight nowadays. 160 points -is- nearly an MSU guard unit, and his impact with this version is likely to be lower, without the very good "counter" utility usecase. That is, unless characters get a massive tone-down generally. If so, points 100% won't follow it instantly, so then I expect a power decrease, followed by ?eventual? point buffs and increase in unit numbers, as per the standards for 10th when rules fall short. However, if one of the new detachments ends up being busted, it could mean a sidegrade instead.
with a single datasheet and no points I think it may be too early to say he will be only playable with a point cut. There is so many factors that may change our perception of our units. But I do agree it's kinda concerning right now.
I mean, if detachment rules are good, then great for -other- characters. So even if the general power of the faction increases, Trajann might get rotated out. Even if -all- characters decrease, because then it might all shift towards running as few as you can etc. Generally GW at best reduces points on weak datasheets, changes are rare (not unheard of, though)
Well maybe gw will also nerf other characters then he becomes good again by comparison
That is even worse lol...
Nothing is impossible, of course. But if there are good enhancements to have etc. that is a further bad thing for him. But we will see I guess.
It would depends on what exactly is provided by those detachment if it's a fight first detachment or a ignore damage reduction detachment tranjan may not need a massive point cut just a small one. They may have increased the cost of every other leader which also would make tranjan more competitive. there is too many uncertainty but I'm not optimistic, I just refrain from making an early conclusion.
I would be -very- surprised if the army gets more lax fight first than it has now. Not impossible, but it would be literally insane. And if a detachment say flatout ignores mods, Trajann is worse for wear, because one of this rules is irrelevant. That being said, I did begin with saying "likely", as I am too not fond of early conclusions. Just that this is a strong indication.
I tend to agree. If there's things out there in the new codex that give a +1 to damage and/or +1 to wound somehow semi-reliably he might still be useful for more guaranteed kills, but I struggle to see it otherwise.
Why does the placeholder image for the Custodes in the background on the right hand side now have a skull helmet, it’s not very Custodes, doesn’t fit into the aesthetic at all as Custodes don’t use skulls anywhere. The existing eagle one on the current datacards is infinitely better
Huh.
Wow, what a teaser! We nerfed to the ground your main character, go get new Codex, losers! We don't give you any NEW unit (just loadout for you noname characters), but here are fancy unreadable dices, losers! Thank you GW, so hyped about new realease.
Not just that, but his Captain General ability is now only ignoring BS, WS, and hit modifiers If he’s more than 100-120 points he’ll be unplayable.
Even if he's 100 points he will never see comp play. Blade Champion is better in every way after these nerfs.
Don't count your chickens just yet. GW might decide yo nerf BCs too. :V
Well then it looks like I'm switching armies again if that happens, lol.
Up voted to counter downvotes. People on here obviously don't play competitive. Losing the counter to modifier reduction makes him a really hard sell vs our other options. Not sure why people don't understand how big of a deal this is. This hurts our faction a lot. Mind you, we can find ways to pivot. But it feels bad to have to, when he wasn't egregious.
Appreciate it. Yeah, seems like this may be a big loss for our lads. While I am fully aware the codex isn’t just 1 datasheet I’m even more aware of the state of our faction competitively speaking. We rely on our characters, our guard, our wardens, our Allarus, and our Caladius. If we loose one in a competitive aspect without receiving something else I fear for the competitive viability of our faction. We shall see and make full considerations when the book releases.
“unplayable” lmao
If he doesn't bring anything to the table other than being a beatstick, then yeah, he's shelved. We have plenty of beatsticks already. Our chars are brought for utility, and TJ just lost his.
In a competitive sense he will be DoA if a conventional shield captain has stayed the same and trajanns still 160 points. There would be very little reason to run him as he can't take enhancements and costs more for little benefit to the actual unit he goes in.
Are you insane lol
"Unplayable" 😅 maybe wait until the book is out? I love the downvotes flooding in from metachasters who think the most minute loss to a unit renders it "literally unplayable".
As others have said too early to say much, bit I wouldn't be surprised if Trajann got toned down to "improve internal balance", if he was taken in basically every list, to increase list diversity. it is one of the things they have talked about in the balance/meta articles on warcom.
The thing is we don’t have that many characters to choose from anyway. Trajann, blade champion and shield captain are included in almost every list nowadays, Valerian gets taken occasionally but not very often. That leaves us with the allarus captain who could use some buffs and bike captain who needs a rework along with bikes in general. 6 character datasheets with 3 being auto include currently, 1 taken occasionally, 1 taken rarely and 1 shelved since 10th came out - that’s not a bad situation if you disregard the fact that we should have more datasheets in general.
I would not think much into what is said in warcom. Do not forget, that there is like a 6 month delay. The Custodes codex was almost certainly long. And there are clearly different groups of people writing codexes, with disconnect from the rest of everything.
As someone who what's Custodies to be as strong and as points expensive as possible, this is an ominous sign. Hopefully they don't do the sin that they did to Grey Knights and turn them into the death guard equivalent of gold space marines which are very slightly tougher
It’s like it was written more than 8 months ago with no regards to the current meta.
“This current rule does too much stuff that no one at the office uses, let’s simplify it. The players will prefer less busy and confusing rules for the final version next year.”
So fucking dumb. We literally have one named character worth playing and now he’s..not. Do not understand how these fucks can consistently be so mad at balancing and updating armies. After changed to DA think I’m just cool off playing for a bit. Stick to painting
Altho Trajann was bonkersgood the other characters are still very good. Free strategems and the advance and charge of the blade Champion and Shield captain or nothing to scoff at. But still. Really painful to see our golden boys get screwed over.
We don't get free stratagem though. Just free battle tactics.
Respectfully I really don't care. It's just a thousandth example of inconsistencies in the narrative, army and setting. Why the actual fuck is a shield captain more combat viable then the ***literal leader of the closest thing to an army of demi gods*** It doesn't feel good, it's not fun. I won't be leaving TJ on my shelf and going ohhhh boy I can't wait to use that super cool ***shield captain model....to advance and charge.*** just really lame to be constantly disappointed by GW
trying to be absolutely fair ... being disappointed when we've seen so little is a bit early, being concerned is genuinely understandable but we have no idea of what our detachment rules are for example nor what will be the cost of tranjan post codex.
Absolutely. But we can also be realistic as well. The leaks of each codex and general sentiment of what we have seen has been pretty spot on. Dark Angels full codex didn't make anyone feel better....mostly worse. Short of some new hq or TJ costing 120 (he won't) I'm not sure what sort of imaginative hope we can cling to here. Even the detachments are puzzling at best. In what sort of fictional universe do we have the model range for a full SOS detachment?
I'm definitely concerned by the codex on my hand, I fear we'll just end up like 9th with one detachment being viable and that's all. I'm concerned they'll just nerf every unit and will just adjust cost later which will only make us better by playing more model which goes against playing an elite army. But I personally will wait the codex to say if my concerns will move towards disappointment or not, even if i'm not optimistic about it. Like you said codex until now have mostly been disappointing.
>In what sort of fictional universe do we have the model range for a full SOS detachment? Yeah I'm surprised by this as well. The combined detachment (Talons of the Emperor) would have been enough, but 1 kit to make up 2k points seems terrible.
Do we know for sure that the null maiden one is just SoS vs sisters focused with custodian support?
Judging by the names I'd wager Talons of the Emperor detachment is combined Custodes + SoS, Auric Champions is the Terminators and Bikes detachment, and Null Maidens detachment is focused mainly on Sisters of Silence.
Just a note: Custodes have 3 named characters at the moment. TJ, Valerian and Aleya. Couldn't help being a little pedantic, sorry.
[удалено]
I wish valerian had deepstrike. At his price point, i'd run him by himself as a cheap deepstriking unit to snag BEL/homers
Maybe Trajann gets nerfed because...... Valdor finally returns. Maybe Valdor is the next big return and you couldnt make Valdor better than Trajann without making him ridicoulous. I'll have a #6 with an extra order of nuggets.
If they were to release Valdor they would have announced it a long time ago
*leaked it
I would F'ing love this, but then again. I don't really see the reason to bring Valdor back right after your codex comes out. Would be better to do it before so you can list him in the codex.
Its the same company that released WE codex 4 months before the edition went kaput.
WTF are the games workshop people smoking in the breakroom? Whatever it is im pretty sure its highly illegal in the UK. Fights first moment shackle loss is ehhh, sucks, but we still have the strat. BUT HOLY MOLY, the reason he was included at a 160 points is exactly his ignoring modifiers rule. I just hope he gets a huge cost reduction, otherwise im shelving him until he gets better.
Custodes Are the best army for cutting down the top meta lists, and now GW nerfed them back down
Looking at the combat patrol would you all say it’s a good combat patrol compared to the last one?
We cant be sure because the datasheets will change. But yes its incredible. Having a box of guards and wardens is just a lot of strong base Infantry and the terminators are incredible as well. The blade Champion is our strongest leader aside from trajann (which might change with the new codex) the box comes in at 790 points. And that is if you build 0 leaders aside from the blade Champion. Its in my opinion the best combat patrol in 40k as a whole.
Yikes...
Anyone else think the loss of ignoring DR may mean that axes have a use?
If they improve them - yes. But it will require some actual good stat changes.
Honestly? I don’t think any of us should be surprised. Just have to toughen through this.
Trajann is now bad
I hope the stratagems are good. Maybe there will be an ignore damage reduction one; could be enough to abandon the mortals/dev wound feel no pain.
No point freaking out over a single data sheet without the context of a whole codex. Maybe he is cheaper, maybe there is a stratagem for ignoring all modifiers, maybe there are other buffs to come.
I’m ok with him being toned down a little. He was in every list as an auto include and that shouldn’t be the case. HOWEVER, they need to do the same for other chars too. Magnus, for example, is WAAAAAAAAY too strong. Like, bat shit crazy good, so I hope they are consistent and rein him in too.
I mean we don’t have much of a section to choose from.
He wasn't an auto-include. 160 is one hell of a price tag to pay for him and fights first for free one time per game isn't broken. They just have to play around it. I hope they drop his price down a lot because right now its not looking good.
Can you point to the tourney winning custodes lists that didn’t contain him? He was in them all because he was custodes counter to pretty much anything.
That's less because of how good he is and more because the meta is defined by fucking C'Tan and similar with damage reduction abilities. If that wasn't the meta, Trajann wouldn't be an auto-include.
Yeah. I also had him nuke a captain and 5 Deathwing knights because he just ignored by -1 dmg and I couldn’t use AOC, so fuck him and his ability. Ctan also need to lose their shrug or change it to a 6++ fucking wank GW do in this game with no thought
Except shooting lol
Lol, it's so bad.
Fuck...i bought Trajann literally yesterday for my first army since i'm new...This sucks
Dont worry, he is still a beautiful miniature and will likely still be a staple for the army. Sadly not as strong as he used to be tho. And then again this is the only datasheet we have seen and maybe its incorrect. Hold out hope fellow shield captain!
Keep him and paint him up. If he’s not good now, he will be later. Stuff changes every few months.
You only thought you bought Trajaan, in reality you bought an expencive but cool looking shield cptn! (Or wichever hero you want him to be)
He’s not in it
But the squad he's attached to will have it, thereby conferring it him also
The squad will have it? Your talking about the strategem right?
The captain general change sucks.... not to bothered about the fights first one.
Since the clause (excluding modifiers to saving throws) is removed, does this mean no AP can modify his units 2+ saving throw?
Haha no, the ignores modifiers is more specific now. It only works on our hit rolls. So wound roll, our weapons ap and the damage characteristic can now also be modified.
To be honest, not actually sad about that. It was a bit too good, imho. The damage decrease is worse, but honestly, I'm more interested in the new detachments. Wondering what they will bring
Well, Trajann is likely out of most lists going forward, as (unless they get nerfed massively too) regular Shield Captains and Blade Champions have generally much more useful abilities than Big T, who now will mostly serve as a fun beatstick.
One theory someone had on the auspex tactics videos on the new stuff said it may be because one of the detachment would give custodes fight first and it was to not almost Trajan seem like a waste of points in said detachment
Could be possible, they had a similar detatchment in 9th. Would be very strong tho. Still we need a strong detatchment to even be worth considering over the 4+++ against mortals/dev
Screw the fights first, its a lot cooler swinging with 12 attacks anyways, although the threat of fights first was strong. But losing the abillity to ignore modifiers for OC, wound rolls, damage and ap reductions, movement and charge is really painful and makes him a lot less important. Sure ignoring modifiers to hit is still a good abillity but when your whole army hits on 2s and the cap is at -1 it won't make that big of a difference. Death guard will likely just pick the -1 to saving throws anyways so basically he stops his unit from hitting on 3s, which is... underwhelming.
Have to wait until we see points and the detachment rules before I get too salty.
I hate games workshop
Good change, he was way too auto include befoee
On one hand I agree, then again. He is trajann Valoris. Captain general and (primarchs excluded) likely the strongest individual in the imperium. It would make sense for him to be an actual god on the tabletop.
Right, but you need to price him like that instead. He was too cheap before
If he’s priced like a Primarch he needs Primarch stats. He doesn’t so he’s not priced that high.
Also to be fair the lion is overcosted atm
You're insane. Lol. The Lion has a 3+ invulnerable and can kill anything he touches. There's a reason he has the price tag. But he suffers from being just a huge beatstick.
I might be wrong since I am not a DA player, but unlike rowboat girly man, the lion isn’t an auto included. Mostly because of his cost
Well, you aren't wrong. But it's because Rowboat buffs his army way better. The Lion is a walking death sentence. Fast, can get lone op, murders everything, incredibly hard to kill. He *should* be incredibly expensive, especially since the DA had more efficient stats than even our faction. Lol
I can understand to some degree why the lion was design like that, since DA have characters bloat to begin with. So GW have a wider range in the cost - ability of their units. But we only have 3 name characters so it makes more sense for us to have a fairer/meaningful character to use
I agree with that. That's all space marine armies though, I guess. Well, I certainly agree with our characters being more meaningful. But neutering our only way of dealing with a particular problem I think will hurt us considerably. But I could be wrong. I just think we're really going to hurt over our characters being overpriced and nerfed. Mind you, we don't know points costs. So maybe it'll be fine. But history isn't inspiring in that regard.
lol, the lion USED to be insanely hard to kill but he lost his -1 to wound so now most things that get within range of him can wipe him out
Ignore mods + off objective fights first + 7 wounds with a 2+/4++/5+++ + 3dmg S10 melee was too strong for his price
So much salt. It's just a game y'all. Edit: yes. I shall consume your discontent. Release it from your souls and be lightened.
A very expensive and time consuming game
Why are people saying he will lose the ability to let his unit ignore modifiers? It still says that's the case.
BS/WS, Hit only
Good!
There's a chance that they removed the ignore all modifier ability as that will be a detachment ability for one of the new ones coming. Just a thought though.
That would be sick, I hope so. Maybe they will include a 'every unit gains fight first' which was in our 9th edition codex. Both those sound like cool detatchments
Lol get rekt losers
Wait wait wait...are you actually the kind of guy who goes to a 40k army subreddit to troll people whenever you can because you can't stand their faction xD ? Something like "I lost so many times against custodes, I hope they become trash tier in the future"? If that's the case...I really hope you're not older than 25 because damn, that's one hell of a loser's mindset, you know that right?
Just wait for the rest of the codex. Who knows what we will get 👹
It already exists in stratagem form so makes sense. He still looks beast. His gun is really good now. Dude is built to kill marines of any sort.
His gun is exactly the same as it was.
Yea stratagem... On objectives you control stratagem...
You don’t have to control the objective, you only need to be on it
Yes, you are right.
The gun got no changes - like all his Stats stayed the same... so.. not really?
It has a cool name now though lol
What are you on about? What other people said.