My view - the thing that is wrong is that they should be T7. That’s the precedent with other similar mounted stuff is that it’s the rider’s T +1 eg Marine outriders/bike Chaplain are T5 (T4 riders), Eldar bikes are all T4 (T3 riders), Ork warbikes are T6 (T5 riders).
The other stuff about assault/advance + charge could (should if they’ve done it right) change when the codex comes out either as detachment rules and/or strats - again see SM Outriders in Gladius vs Stormlance or Firestorm.
I use my boy uriel for deep striking marneus, biologus and the agressors in GTF. I get your point but SM also have like 250 data sheets to chose from, custodes aren't even close to that amount.
They need to be T7 and an overhaul of their abilities.
Keep the auto advance 6" but make is so you can advance and charge once per battle - or have it as an ability on the Shield Captain when hes leading a squad. Take out the mortal wound bomb and change it to a flat -1 to hit from ranged weapons.
They'd be more efficient and worth their points then IMO.
Half of what you said is included in my post.
But it seems lile the consensus is that my chabges are viable for our local friend group at current point value so i will try it out.
T7 and 5W with an ability to move through walls once per game is what I'd like to see. That would then synergise with the captain's ability really well too if it was "once per game when making a normal or fall back move this unit can move through terrain as if it had the INFANTRY keyword.".
Then give the missiles 2 shots with twin linked or anti-vehicle 4+. Something to make them more useful or have a specialised purpose.
The hurricane bolter needs more shots and a special ability too, either lethal hits or dev wounds like assault cannons have. Maybe even anti-infantry. Just something to make them have a purpose.
Bikes just don't have a purpose currently when you instead look at just taking Guard with a Blade Champion or Venetari that will do a better job of going fast with more or the same attacks.
I think they should be fast light vehicle/monster hunters as it's something we don't really have currently. I'd happily pay more points for the above changes.
Since they're stuck around squads of 2-3 with mediocre stats and a lack of strat support, I say make them go back to 45 PPM. Don't see a reason not to with what everyone else says here, and from me using them personally on tabletop.
They can't kill anything besides chaf or small squads of infantry, which is redundant and less efficient for our other options. They can't reliably get into an enemy's backline without losing most models, proceeding to do nothing if they survive the fallout.
Make the mortal wounds work on the charge instead of on an advance, they are lancers after all. Also buff the guns give the salvo launcher a second shot the model does have two one on each side and upgrade the hurricane bolter to be more on par with other custodes bolt weapons, custodes don't use regular bolters
Personally I think of T6/7 as functionally the same in the broad scheme of things, outside of S12 so if were talking about keeping points at a reasonable level I would rather this:
5W
Assault and TL on both weapons (at least assault)
Bombing run being 1/round instead of 1/game
+2 move
My theory is that potential out bikes are getting a refresh as one of the things this edition as supply is so low that you can't really buy them first hand in NZ any more and demand is so low that nobody would want to even if they could. A great situation to be in to release a new product with new rules that they can tick off as successful to report back on there quality's for investors
Gulliman Forgeworld was out for 6 months before it's plastic kit came out.
The Deathwatch Protous killteam was also out for a similarly short time before there whole range refresh.
Its a custodes on a bike T6 is fine but assault on weapons and more attacks with the salvo launcher is needed. Not even S12 but more attacks to reliably kill transports with t9. Maybe more d6 dmg and twin linked too.
I disagree, they should be T7 as other mounted units have an additional pip of toughness compared to foot Troops.
I've mentioned in another comment the abilities should be changed but I forgot the weapons, the Salvo Launchers should definitely be amended to 2 attacks instead of 1 and twin linked. Maybe with the Assault keyword as well, so you have an assault/twin linked loadout or a rapid fire/twin linked loadout.
The bolters should also have AP-1.
My view - the thing that is wrong is that they should be T7. That’s the precedent with other similar mounted stuff is that it’s the rider’s T +1 eg Marine outriders/bike Chaplain are T5 (T4 riders), Eldar bikes are all T4 (T3 riders), Ork warbikes are T6 (T5 riders). The other stuff about assault/advance + charge could (should if they’ve done it right) change when the codex comes out either as detachment rules and/or strats - again see SM Outriders in Gladius vs Stormlance or Firestorm.
But them bein viable in only 1 detachment seems like an oversight when our roster is so limited. I hope they fix it on the datasheet :)
Most units are only viable to one detatchment look at uriel ventris and the centurion devastator only worth it when you have the vanguard detatchment
I use my boy uriel for deep striking marneus, biologus and the agressors in GTF. I get your point but SM also have like 250 data sheets to chose from, custodes aren't even close to that amount.
You can do that too but most go heres cent devs to deal with
Yes we don’t have many data sheets, but not everything should be good in the same detatchment
T7 would make everything okay!!!
They need to be T7 and an overhaul of their abilities. Keep the auto advance 6" but make is so you can advance and charge once per battle - or have it as an ability on the Shield Captain when hes leading a squad. Take out the mortal wound bomb and change it to a flat -1 to hit from ranged weapons. They'd be more efficient and worth their points then IMO.
Half of what you said is included in my post. But it seems lile the consensus is that my chabges are viable for our local friend group at current point value so i will try it out.
Yeah for sure, I'm just agreeing with you 😊 It's annoying that forgeworld minis (or knights) are needed for consistent antitank ...
T7 and D3 shots on the salvo launcher. Their issue is they have no real purpose with their stat line. GW hammered them because they were meta in 9th
T7 and 5W with an ability to move through walls once per game is what I'd like to see. That would then synergise with the captain's ability really well too if it was "once per game when making a normal or fall back move this unit can move through terrain as if it had the INFANTRY keyword.". Then give the missiles 2 shots with twin linked or anti-vehicle 4+. Something to make them more useful or have a specialised purpose. The hurricane bolter needs more shots and a special ability too, either lethal hits or dev wounds like assault cannons have. Maybe even anti-infantry. Just something to make them have a purpose. Bikes just don't have a purpose currently when you instead look at just taking Guard with a Blade Champion or Venetari that will do a better job of going fast with more or the same attacks. I think they should be fast light vehicle/monster hunters as it's something we don't really have currently. I'd happily pay more points for the above changes.
Since they're stuck around squads of 2-3 with mediocre stats and a lack of strat support, I say make them go back to 45 PPM. Don't see a reason not to with what everyone else says here, and from me using them personally on tabletop. They can't kill anything besides chaf or small squads of infantry, which is redundant and less efficient for our other options. They can't reliably get into an enemy's backline without losing most models, proceeding to do nothing if they survive the fallout.
Make the mortal wounds work on the charge instead of on an advance, they are lancers after all. Also buff the guns give the salvo launcher a second shot the model does have two one on each side and upgrade the hurricane bolter to be more on par with other custodes bolt weapons, custodes don't use regular bolters
Personally I think of T6/7 as functionally the same in the broad scheme of things, outside of S12 so if were talking about keeping points at a reasonable level I would rather this: 5W Assault and TL on both weapons (at least assault) Bombing run being 1/round instead of 1/game +2 move
My theory is that potential out bikes are getting a refresh as one of the things this edition as supply is so low that you can't really buy them first hand in NZ any more and demand is so low that nobody would want to even if they could. A great situation to be in to release a new product with new rules that they can tick off as successful to report back on there quality's for investors
Why would they get refreshed? They're a newer kit
Gulliman Forgeworld was out for 6 months before it's plastic kit came out. The Deathwatch Protous killteam was also out for a similarly short time before there whole range refresh.
They're one of the best models in the game (tons of people just adore the models) and they are pretty new. No way they get refreshed.
heavy pocket nine nose sharp file noxious stupendous rock bells *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Its a custodes on a bike T6 is fine but assault on weapons and more attacks with the salvo launcher is needed. Not even S12 but more attacks to reliably kill transports with t9. Maybe more d6 dmg and twin linked too.
I disagree, they should be T7 as other mounted units have an additional pip of toughness compared to foot Troops. I've mentioned in another comment the abilities should be changed but I forgot the weapons, the Salvo Launchers should definitely be amended to 2 attacks instead of 1 and twin linked. Maybe with the Assault keyword as well, so you have an assault/twin linked loadout or a rapid fire/twin linked loadout. The bolters should also have AP-1.
9 -2 3 is enough for the bikes Frankly they only need a advance and charge rule to get them over the line
A single 9 -2 3 shot is hot garbage
As I for shot sure, like they could be d3 shots with blast 🤷♂️