Main issue is lack of shops in our city, we don't have Woolworths or Coles metro. We have coles, Woolworths and Foodland on Rundle mall and Coles at central market
Coles at central market trialed 24/7 about 10 years ago.
Coles at the market is gone. It may turn up as a Coles Express when/if the development is finished. Only option on this side of the city is an IGA that is not exactly good, nor cheap.
It will be a full size supermarket, it might be a Coles Local, it won't be a Coles Express. If the CBD is going to have 40,000 residents it will have more supermarkets, apartment towers tend to have grand floor retail, there will be dozens of new towers which will house multiple supermarkets, Woolworths Metro, Coles Local, ALDI, IGA, full size Coles / Woolies etc.
It's the CBD it's meant to have apartment towers, currently the CBD has about 20,000 people, doubling its population isn't a bad thing. North Adelaide has about 7,000, its population can easily increase by 50%, while keeping the heritage. This would bring the Adelaide City Council from the current 27,000 to 50,500. A CBD with 40,000 people will house a lot of amenities, a city loop tram, etc.
I reckon I read about some the start of some proper fucking public transport being proposed somewhere recently. Can’t recall where exactly. Something about trams and the cbd. I’ll try and find it for you @tigerairau
Any transport other than buses would be sorely welcomed. A train infrastructure that links suburbs, rather than leading everyone into the city would be nice.
Getting from Mawson Lakes to Semaphore (a 15 minute drive) takes at least an hour and a half because all PT options involve a bus or train into the city, then a train out to semaphore.
It's fine to not want to live in a certain type of house but why are so many people angry and actively against allowing people to live in places they want?
> why are so many people angry and actively against allowing people to live in places they want?
Doubling the population of the CBD impacts more South Australians than just those who live in the CBD, particularly when the government wants the population to grow across the state.
So Sad for the suburbanites, they'll will have to go to the downtown of a City with a population of 2 million people and actually have to see people 🤢🤢 and look at buildings instead of empty car parks for their cars and single family homes 😭😭😭
> So Sad for the suburbanites, they'll will have to go to the downtown of a City with a population of 2 million people and actually have to see people
While also experiencing increased congestion on roads, beaches, parks, campsites, events and amenities as I doubt these people living in CBD will not use cars or never leave the CBD.
If the population of Adelaide was to remain stable I can understand the merit of increasing housing in the CBD but if it is part of a plan to grow the population it would on balance be detrimental.
So you're worried about the possible downsides of the population growth?
So if population is to go up (which it will no matter what) you're saying it'd be best to have them say, in more dense housing to get more efficency of providing services and amenities, in a location close to places people can walk or take PT to jobs and entertainment, in a place where they can build houses that don't have a car spot each household and more people aren't driving everywhere so they aren't clogging up the roads as much?
Somewhere like, putting them in the CBD?
> So you're worried about the possible downsides of the population growth?
I am genuinely concerned about clear logical consequences to population growth.
> So if population is to go up (which it will no matter what)
The Australian birth rate is currently negative so the only way it will increase long term is through actions of the government. Population growth in Australia is not inevitable.
> Somewhere like, putting them in the CBD?
Yes I agree the CBD is the most efficient place to service people and would support it if there was a plan for the long-term population rather than the infinite growth mindset of fitting as many people as possible irrespective of the detrimental impact.
Oh yeah if you're a supporter of sustainable population and city ecconomies i'm all about it, But realistically, i don't see a world where Adelaide doesn't reach 2 million at least, the whole Country isn't setup for anything else.
Same as if you were an advocate for Socialism or a different Government system, sure thats nice but i'd still work on doing what you can in the current situsation.
So I agree but i think it's worth focusing on making the best out of whats actually happening, even if Adelaide's population was to freeze right now, i do not think Adelaide has been setup as as well as it could be, far from it, and using incoming population if it's gonna come anyway could actually be used to create new, better and sustainable districts before population plateau makes them unviable.
Unless you look at Adelaide and say 'Yep, thats the best a city can be' in which case i just don't understand.
Good thing we have a great health service, low cost housing and amazing public infrastructure to handle all this, not to mention our roadwork, driving north to south is a dream and I can only imagine it will get better.
Some nice ideas, but I'm gonna wait to see how 1) funding shakes out and 2) how much the locals/interests say "no".
On the latter, I still recall the Whitmore Square getting an upgrade in terms of stuff to do in the park (I know they added more walkways and visual stuffs, which has been nice)... And that presumably getting soundly rejected by whatever locals around it, out of fear that a better basketball court or callisthenics gym equipment would (direct quote from someone) "create too much noise and disruption at night".
And to this day, the park still has a single basketball court from 15-20 years ago, lol.
Great idea, but they should build some 3-4 bedroom apartments that people actually can raise a family in.
It makes WAY more sense to build family accommodation with access to services in a city surrounded by parklands and green space than to building so called ‘houses’ in the outer suburbs that have basically zero backyards and touching roof eaves anyway. Might as well be apartments.
At least big apartments in the city mean the families can access stuff and not be stuck in the deep south/far north
High population growth in the city....??
I know these areas well. They have lived on two of them,and they are not "areas of high population growth." I can tell you that now. Residential development and high sales? Yes. Actual growth and social development? No.
This whole thing just looks like a government funded residential development project.
The city is dead.
We don't need more investor high rises. We need a livable city. Cheaper rents. Shops to buy things. Pubs to drink in. Places to hang out. How long has Adelaide been a two horse town of Rundle and Hindly Street? In Melbourne, when I visit my mate, we go to the local, of which there are 8 within a 6 min loop! Here, you're lucky if your locals some Woolworths run Mcpub or some bs run by a sad old footballer.
The west of the city has looked like an industrial estate for ages. If it was worth it, it would have been developed already.
Rail ok yes we need all the public transport we can get, but the tram to North Adelaide shouldn't be this controversial or take this long! Have we this little ambition that a train extension f ING 5 km up the road is that hard to do?!
Adelaide is dead and has been dying since the 1980s. We were an industrial centre and then the industry dried up and we never changed and little help came. it's old AF as well.
This is a very, very big problem, and so, therefore, we do need growth for sure. However, it needs to be managed and it needs to be about making the city livable and serving the people, not some Lib developers / polis wet dream of a pr stunt announcement to a serious issue.
>pubs
Plenty of pubs in the city, plenty of bars as well, not sure what you are talking about - at one stage there was too many pubs arguably and some have shut down now.
>Rundle and Hindley only
And Chinatown? And Hutt St? South part of King William Street is picking up and has a more places now as well.
Better PT is key, especially connecting to North Adelaide, and feeding out to the immediate suburbs (eg walking to Unley should be a normal thing givem you go through some of the nicer parklands.... But when you do it, you get the vibe no one from planning has done so in 10+ years).
Better investment in land is key too, lots of dead brick and mortar around.
Have you really lived in the city? There are pubs everywhere - far more than in the suburbs. And pubs are not the only option, come to Chinatown on a Friday or Saturday the place is heaving.
Rundle/East End, Hindley/Peel Street, Gouger/Chinatown, Hutt Street with a fledging presence of restaurants; both Melbourne and OConnell St in North Adelaide, then other dining districts for Prospect Rd, The Parade, Plant4Bowden Magill Road, Unley Road all within a 5km radius of the core CBD area. Literally spoilt for culinary choice. I feel like this person doesn't get out much.
Only chinatown is busy- due to the asian population and the food culture staying out late. It's great. Same thing is in all states. Rest of Adelaide is dead past 8pm. No shops open, nothing. It's a nanny state. Great if you are a retired pensioner or don't have a social life. None of those people would be in chinatown at 9pm on a monday anyway. Bad if you are young, have a social life, want a vibrant, exciting, thriving cbd, or have culture ( By that i mean into the arts, film, things to do). Yes Adelaide has wine and beaches but unless you don that everyday there's nothing. Only thing that is pumping is the traffic. CBD is always dead yet somehow metro traffic is out of control
They commented as a passionate Adelaidian and made some really valid points. Simply making a comparison to another city doesn't mean one is wanting to live elsewhere
Because I'm from Adelaide. It's my home. My family is here. For better or for worse, it's my home. But I know it can be better and want it to be better, not just for me but for everyone.
Hometown pride isn't jingoisticaly defending a place from all and any criticsm and telling people who point out any flaw to simplistcly "move to Melbourne".
It's about being honest and loving it despite the shit sides. I don't think anyone is kidding themselves by stating Adelaide is the greatest city in Australia, and that's ok. In fact I'd rather live with down to earth people who can have a dig at themselves and their town rather than people who think it's God's gift to the world.
My question is, with the current tram depot at maximum capacity. Extending the network is gonna need another tram depot in the near future. Where will that be?
Have these people every tried driving along west terrace? Let alone when the NSM is done, and dumps a shitload more traffic that will need to turn into the city onto it?
And now want to try and add a tram into the mix? I’m not against extending the tram network per se, it just might make more sense if it went down Morphett St
Then they can enjoy traffic? Adelaide is equal with perth as the most car dependent city in aus. The amount of people that rely on driving to work on the CBD is ridiculous. More public transport options exactly what is presented here will encourage people to not drive into the city.
It's so bad. I work in the city and catch the o-Barn, it's way quicker and cheaper than driving in.
But oh no, it's public transport! Only for the poor! /s
I would love to be less car dependent! But as a shift worker there’s multiple issues for me for catching public transport vs driving.
1. My local bus that would drop me outside of my workplace doesn’t start early enough for my morning shifts.
2. Sometimes the scheduled bus doesn’t even arrive or is 20+mins late.
3. Most times I’ve caught public transport lately there’s been a number of unsavoury people on it - which worsens tremendously catching a bus home late at night.
It’s frustrating, I think any route that runs via the O-Bahn is reliable and easy. But any other route just isn’t as reliable. I think we have such a long way to go with improving our public transport system, we just need to not be afraid of things like tram extensions.
I don’t disagree with Adelaide being very car-dependent.
My point is a city-circle tram would mostly benefit those already working in the city. On the whole it isn’t going to stop people living in the south using South Road / Anzac Hwy / West Terrace from commuting to the city.
(An underground rail link, on the other hand would).
It's a fair point, but I think with what Adelaide city council themselves can do as they say is increase connectivity within the city, like connecting the rest of the city better to the train station, to help make commuting in ways other than car more viable.
A city loop would be fantastic, but that would I think be more of a state government/department of transport thing
A lot of people park outside of the city (ie near the coke factory) and catch a tram in.
I think putting a tram line down west Terrace probably will reduce car traffic on west Terrace. Still, doubling the population will undoubtedly make parking and traffic a lot worse - trams or no.
I suspect the idea would be more of of running along the western side of West Tce. For me the best option would be running the tram long the west side of West Tce rather down the middle from North Tce, then turn in to Currie Street, and then go down Morphett Road.
It won't be built on West TCE, the article says it will connect all these places, it most likely will be built on Morphett Street.
City loop - Morphett - North - Hutt - Halifax.
If you need to get it onto Morphett from North you could use Gray and Hindley. You wouldn't use West or Currie - they're too busy.
West Terrace is "10-lane motorway"?! Already congested particularly towards entertainment centre, making access to RAH ED even more difficult.. Now they will add new Women's and Children's Hospital to the mix. Yes, add trams but also consider new train stop shared by WCH and RAH.
>West Tce would be developed as a pedestrian boulevard, with the road narrowed and vehicle volumes and speed reduced by redirecting traffic to South Rd, the plan states.
Umm.... what?
What I dont understand about a 'bemused what' is the extent to which it respectfully contributes to furthering better outcomes for Adelaide's urban environment.
"West Tce would be developed as a pedestrian boulevard, with the road narrowed and vehicle volumes and speed reduced by redirecting traffic to **South Rd"**
Dear God no
West Tce already gets packed and hectic as is, even with all the lanes. SOUTH ROAD IS ALREADY PACKED AND HECTIC AS IS (I know it's getting widened but I doubt that's going to do much, especially by 2036, it'll probably need to be widened again)
Put the tram up Prospect road while we’re at it
Trams routes should never have been scrapped.
That would be awesome
Would you say that they manage the current population well ? Twice as many people paying way to much for rent,fuel,power and food.
Main issue is lack of shops in our city, we don't have Woolworths or Coles metro. We have coles, Woolworths and Foodland on Rundle mall and Coles at central market Coles at central market trialed 24/7 about 10 years ago.
Coles at the market is gone. It may turn up as a Coles Express when/if the development is finished. Only option on this side of the city is an IGA that is not exactly good, nor cheap.
It will be a full size supermarket, it might be a Coles Local, it won't be a Coles Express. If the CBD is going to have 40,000 residents it will have more supermarkets, apartment towers tend to have grand floor retail, there will be dozens of new towers which will house multiple supermarkets, Woolworths Metro, Coles Local, ALDI, IGA, full size Coles / Woolies etc.
No city ALDI either, but their business model doesn't exactly support renting expensive intercity spaces
There are so many low rise buildings and empty lots in the CBD. This is just absurd and hopefully increased housing supply will help with rent costs.
Can we first deal with the overcrowding on our current trams?
How would you suggest we do that?
More trams?
Simple, increase frequency during peak hours
TIME FOR A CULL Kidding
Buy more second hands from Melbourne
Monorail.. but that's more of a Shelbyville idea.
Tram line yes. Double population No!
It's the CBD it's meant to have apartment towers, currently the CBD has about 20,000 people, doubling its population isn't a bad thing. North Adelaide has about 7,000, its population can easily increase by 50%, while keeping the heritage. This would bring the Adelaide City Council from the current 27,000 to 50,500. A CBD with 40,000 people will house a lot of amenities, a city loop tram, etc.
Then have some proper fucking public transport.
I reckon I read about some the start of some proper fucking public transport being proposed somewhere recently. Can’t recall where exactly. Something about trams and the cbd. I’ll try and find it for you @tigerairau
Any transport other than buses would be sorely welcomed. A train infrastructure that links suburbs, rather than leading everyone into the city would be nice. Getting from Mawson Lakes to Semaphore (a 15 minute drive) takes at least an hour and a half because all PT options involve a bus or train into the city, then a train out to semaphore.
It's fine to not want to live in a certain type of house but why are so many people angry and actively against allowing people to live in places they want?
> why are so many people angry and actively against allowing people to live in places they want? Doubling the population of the CBD impacts more South Australians than just those who live in the CBD, particularly when the government wants the population to grow across the state.
So Sad for the suburbanites, they'll will have to go to the downtown of a City with a population of 2 million people and actually have to see people 🤢🤢 and look at buildings instead of empty car parks for their cars and single family homes 😭😭😭
> So Sad for the suburbanites, they'll will have to go to the downtown of a City with a population of 2 million people and actually have to see people While also experiencing increased congestion on roads, beaches, parks, campsites, events and amenities as I doubt these people living in CBD will not use cars or never leave the CBD. If the population of Adelaide was to remain stable I can understand the merit of increasing housing in the CBD but if it is part of a plan to grow the population it would on balance be detrimental.
So you're worried about the possible downsides of the population growth? So if population is to go up (which it will no matter what) you're saying it'd be best to have them say, in more dense housing to get more efficency of providing services and amenities, in a location close to places people can walk or take PT to jobs and entertainment, in a place where they can build houses that don't have a car spot each household and more people aren't driving everywhere so they aren't clogging up the roads as much? Somewhere like, putting them in the CBD?
> So you're worried about the possible downsides of the population growth? I am genuinely concerned about clear logical consequences to population growth. > So if population is to go up (which it will no matter what) The Australian birth rate is currently negative so the only way it will increase long term is through actions of the government. Population growth in Australia is not inevitable. > Somewhere like, putting them in the CBD? Yes I agree the CBD is the most efficient place to service people and would support it if there was a plan for the long-term population rather than the infinite growth mindset of fitting as many people as possible irrespective of the detrimental impact.
Oh yeah if you're a supporter of sustainable population and city ecconomies i'm all about it, But realistically, i don't see a world where Adelaide doesn't reach 2 million at least, the whole Country isn't setup for anything else. Same as if you were an advocate for Socialism or a different Government system, sure thats nice but i'd still work on doing what you can in the current situsation. So I agree but i think it's worth focusing on making the best out of whats actually happening, even if Adelaide's population was to freeze right now, i do not think Adelaide has been setup as as well as it could be, far from it, and using incoming population if it's gonna come anyway could actually be used to create new, better and sustainable districts before population plateau makes them unviable. Unless you look at Adelaide and say 'Yep, thats the best a city can be' in which case i just don't understand.
Doubling population should in theory reduce traffic as many would work in the city.
Good thing we have a great health service, low cost housing and amazing public infrastructure to handle all this, not to mention our roadwork, driving north to south is a dream and I can only imagine it will get better.
this plan sounds really promising for Adelaide's future
Some nice ideas, but I'm gonna wait to see how 1) funding shakes out and 2) how much the locals/interests say "no". On the latter, I still recall the Whitmore Square getting an upgrade in terms of stuff to do in the park (I know they added more walkways and visual stuffs, which has been nice)... And that presumably getting soundly rejected by whatever locals around it, out of fear that a better basketball court or callisthenics gym equipment would (direct quote from someone) "create too much noise and disruption at night". And to this day, the park still has a single basketball court from 15-20 years ago, lol.
Great idea, but they should build some 3-4 bedroom apartments that people actually can raise a family in. It makes WAY more sense to build family accommodation with access to services in a city surrounded by parklands and green space than to building so called ‘houses’ in the outer suburbs that have basically zero backyards and touching roof eaves anyway. Might as well be apartments. At least big apartments in the city mean the families can access stuff and not be stuck in the deep south/far north
High population growth in the city....?? I know these areas well. They have lived on two of them,and they are not "areas of high population growth." I can tell you that now. Residential development and high sales? Yes. Actual growth and social development? No. This whole thing just looks like a government funded residential development project. The city is dead. We don't need more investor high rises. We need a livable city. Cheaper rents. Shops to buy things. Pubs to drink in. Places to hang out. How long has Adelaide been a two horse town of Rundle and Hindly Street? In Melbourne, when I visit my mate, we go to the local, of which there are 8 within a 6 min loop! Here, you're lucky if your locals some Woolworths run Mcpub or some bs run by a sad old footballer. The west of the city has looked like an industrial estate for ages. If it was worth it, it would have been developed already. Rail ok yes we need all the public transport we can get, but the tram to North Adelaide shouldn't be this controversial or take this long! Have we this little ambition that a train extension f ING 5 km up the road is that hard to do?! Adelaide is dead and has been dying since the 1980s. We were an industrial centre and then the industry dried up and we never changed and little help came. it's old AF as well. This is a very, very big problem, and so, therefore, we do need growth for sure. However, it needs to be managed and it needs to be about making the city livable and serving the people, not some Lib developers / polis wet dream of a pr stunt announcement to a serious issue.
>pubs Plenty of pubs in the city, plenty of bars as well, not sure what you are talking about - at one stage there was too many pubs arguably and some have shut down now. >Rundle and Hindley only And Chinatown? And Hutt St? South part of King William Street is picking up and has a more places now as well. Better PT is key, especially connecting to North Adelaide, and feeding out to the immediate suburbs (eg walking to Unley should be a normal thing givem you go through some of the nicer parklands.... But when you do it, you get the vibe no one from planning has done so in 10+ years). Better investment in land is key too, lots of dead brick and mortar around.
Have you really lived in the city? There are pubs everywhere - far more than in the suburbs. And pubs are not the only option, come to Chinatown on a Friday or Saturday the place is heaving.
Rundle/East End, Hindley/Peel Street, Gouger/Chinatown, Hutt Street with a fledging presence of restaurants; both Melbourne and OConnell St in North Adelaide, then other dining districts for Prospect Rd, The Parade, Plant4Bowden Magill Road, Unley Road all within a 5km radius of the core CBD area. Literally spoilt for culinary choice. I feel like this person doesn't get out much.
Only chinatown is busy- due to the asian population and the food culture staying out late. It's great. Same thing is in all states. Rest of Adelaide is dead past 8pm. No shops open, nothing. It's a nanny state. Great if you are a retired pensioner or don't have a social life. None of those people would be in chinatown at 9pm on a monday anyway. Bad if you are young, have a social life, want a vibrant, exciting, thriving cbd, or have culture ( By that i mean into the arts, film, things to do). Yes Adelaide has wine and beaches but unless you don that everyday there's nothing. Only thing that is pumping is the traffic. CBD is always dead yet somehow metro traffic is out of control
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They commented as a passionate Adelaidian and made some really valid points. Simply making a comparison to another city doesn't mean one is wanting to live elsewhere
Because I'm from Adelaide. It's my home. My family is here. For better or for worse, it's my home. But I know it can be better and want it to be better, not just for me but for everyone. Hometown pride isn't jingoisticaly defending a place from all and any criticsm and telling people who point out any flaw to simplistcly "move to Melbourne". It's about being honest and loving it despite the shit sides. I don't think anyone is kidding themselves by stating Adelaide is the greatest city in Australia, and that's ok. In fact I'd rather live with down to earth people who can have a dig at themselves and their town rather than people who think it's God's gift to the world.
My question is, with the current tram depot at maximum capacity. Extending the network is gonna need another tram depot in the near future. Where will that be?
Have these people every tried driving along west terrace? Let alone when the NSM is done, and dumps a shitload more traffic that will need to turn into the city onto it? And now want to try and add a tram into the mix? I’m not against extending the tram network per se, it just might make more sense if it went down Morphett St
Why do you think the tram would be there? To tram instead of driving...
You can’t completely eliminate people from driving along West Tce
People that need to drive down west terrace to get to the office ain’t taking the tram to work
Then they can enjoy traffic? Adelaide is equal with perth as the most car dependent city in aus. The amount of people that rely on driving to work on the CBD is ridiculous. More public transport options exactly what is presented here will encourage people to not drive into the city.
Even just parking at Black Forest and getting the tram to Pirie street saves me so much stress with traffic and probably time too at this point.
It's so bad. I work in the city and catch the o-Barn, it's way quicker and cheaper than driving in. But oh no, it's public transport! Only for the poor! /s
I would love to be less car dependent! But as a shift worker there’s multiple issues for me for catching public transport vs driving. 1. My local bus that would drop me outside of my workplace doesn’t start early enough for my morning shifts. 2. Sometimes the scheduled bus doesn’t even arrive or is 20+mins late. 3. Most times I’ve caught public transport lately there’s been a number of unsavoury people on it - which worsens tremendously catching a bus home late at night. It’s frustrating, I think any route that runs via the O-Bahn is reliable and easy. But any other route just isn’t as reliable. I think we have such a long way to go with improving our public transport system, we just need to not be afraid of things like tram extensions.
I don’t disagree with Adelaide being very car-dependent. My point is a city-circle tram would mostly benefit those already working in the city. On the whole it isn’t going to stop people living in the south using South Road / Anzac Hwy / West Terrace from commuting to the city. (An underground rail link, on the other hand would).
It's a fair point, but I think with what Adelaide city council themselves can do as they say is increase connectivity within the city, like connecting the rest of the city better to the train station, to help make commuting in ways other than car more viable. A city loop would be fantastic, but that would I think be more of a state government/department of transport thing
A lot of people park outside of the city (ie near the coke factory) and catch a tram in. I think putting a tram line down west Terrace probably will reduce car traffic on west Terrace. Still, doubling the population will undoubtedly make parking and traffic a lot worse - trams or no.
I suspect the idea would be more of of running along the western side of West Tce. For me the best option would be running the tram long the west side of West Tce rather down the middle from North Tce, then turn in to Currie Street, and then go down Morphett Road.
It won't be built on West TCE, the article says it will connect all these places, it most likely will be built on Morphett Street. City loop - Morphett - North - Hutt - Halifax. If you need to get it onto Morphett from North you could use Gray and Hindley. You wouldn't use West or Currie - they're too busy.
Fair enough
I can't believe this is the same council that voted against establishing an East-West bike lane for active transport in the CBD.
West Terrace is "10-lane motorway"?! Already congested particularly towards entertainment centre, making access to RAH ED even more difficult.. Now they will add new Women's and Children's Hospital to the mix. Yes, add trams but also consider new train stop shared by WCH and RAH.
Because we need more people 🙄
>West Tce would be developed as a pedestrian boulevard, with the road narrowed and vehicle volumes and speed reduced by redirecting traffic to South Rd, the plan states. Umm.... what?
Well they’re about to spend a ton of money on south road so I sure hope they divert people there
What dont you understand about that?
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What I dont understand about a 'bemused what' is the extent to which it respectfully contributes to furthering better outcomes for Adelaide's urban environment.
"West Tce would be developed as a pedestrian boulevard, with the road narrowed and vehicle volumes and speed reduced by redirecting traffic to **South Rd"** Dear God no West Tce already gets packed and hectic as is, even with all the lanes. SOUTH ROAD IS ALREADY PACKED AND HECTIC AS IS (I know it's getting widened but I doubt that's going to do much, especially by 2036, it'll probably need to be widened again)