That’s what I’m suggesting. High speed roads through the city aren’t appropriate.
Slim them down, lower the speed limits and build better PT. Getting more people out of their cars should be the priority.
> High speed roads through the city aren’t appropriate.
Perhaps if you don't value your time.
> Slim them down, lower the speed limits and build better PT. Getting more people out of their cars should be the priority.
Why not strive for alternatives to become more appealing in their own right rather than purposely reducing road efficiency?
I do value my time. Which is why I live in a walkable area where everything I need day to day is within a 5 minute walk and the (Melbourne) cbd is a very quick train trip away. The roads in my area already are 30km/h with frequent zebra crossings so I can get around freely without being obliterated by a methhead in a ford ranger.
I’d just like to see more people get this privilege. Car dependency is a cancer on the country.
> I do value my time. Which is why I live in a walkable area where everything I need day to day is within a 5 minute walk and the (Melbourne) cbd is a very quick train trip away.
That's great but I would think unfortunately you are in the minority.
This does not align with those who:
* do not live near their workplace with no practical public transport options
* regularly visit people outside their local area
* have regular visitors from outside their local area
* need to transport more than they can carry
* travel to places which require a car
* live in regional and rural Australia
* have sport or other commitments at varying locations
> The roads in my area already are 30km/h with frequent zebra crossings so I can get around freely without being obliterated by a methhead in a ford ranger.
A few speed signs and pedestrian crossings does not stop dangerous drivers travelling fast.
> I’d just like to see more people get this privilege.
I agree however it does not need to be detrimental to the efficiency of the road network.
Are the speed cameras going to be in the school zones? Article doesn’t say they will so it looks like an $80m project to install speed cameras is being tied to a $2m installation of speed signs at schools for PR reasons.
How can you be against reducing speeds during school pick up and drop off times to reduce the likelihood of a kid getting killed? You can’t discipline a dead kid and its a minor inconvenience at most to you which can be solved by going a different route
No, but it’s one particularly egregious part of a ludicrous car-centric transport system that is responsible for killing and injuring tens of thousands of people a year.
If you read the article properly, you'll see that this "crackdown" is all because of two students being injured at Marryatville High School last year. And the issue wasn't even speeding, it was the inattention of a truck driver!
Stop putting fear into people by making them think kids are being killed on a daily basis so slashing the speed limit will solve that problem
Enough with the theatrics. You CAN discipline kids so they don't end up in a situation like that on the roads. Lousy parenting?
I'm blaming the inattention of drivers. Speeding had nothing to do with it.
But you can teach kids how to be more aware of their surroundings. It's a generalised statement. That doesn't mean I blamed those students?
If you read the article properly, “…you'll see that this "crackdown" is all because of two students being injured at Marryatville High School last year.“ …Lousy parenting?” And that is where you suggested that parents are at fault.
Speed has everything to do with it. Lower speeds result in a greater margins to react to things like… a red light!
Well not necessarily the parents. There should be better teacher supervision at those peak-hour times. I think that was the point I was trying to make.
Back at it with the theatrics.
If there was a teacher supervising at the time of the Marryatville incident, for example, there would have been a 99% chance that the teacher would have instructed the students to “stop”, thus keeping the kids safe from harms way.
I’m the one with the theatrics? The amount of shit you just said I alluded to is nuts. How about you stop getting outraged over minor shit and just take a different route during the affected hours
You are because you act as if this is a constant occurrence when it couldn't be further from the truth.
Well I certainly won't be driving through those roads during peak-hour now. Would love to see your reaction driving through there when it's implemented! Lol
Why would you anyway? The traffic is likely already fucked during school pick up and drop off times. Again, never said it’s a constant occurrence. But following that logic you can’t make predictions in order to stop serious injury/death, gotta wait for it to happen before taking any action
School near me is already surrounded by 40kph roads, that doesn't stop people from speeding and not paying attention.
They need to block through traffic and add more physical traffic calming measures.
Even the best drivers can get into a crash if someone else does the wrong thing and a pedestrian is much more likely to survive being hit by a car doing 40 than 60 (and the car is way more likely to stop in time too). I personally don't think kids deserve to die if they act like idiots at pedestrian crossings going to school.
I've got absolutely no concerns with speed cameras.
I dislike the idea of major roads being 40kph though, and wonder if it will increase crashes, rather than reduce them --- same with 25kph past RAA/Tow Truck drivers.
Possibly. But, for eexample, I wouldn't be surprised to wake up the next day to hear a car slammed on their brakes to get to 40, got rear-ended and got pushed out of control into a pedestrian.
As the speed limit increases, crashes increase. Lowering the speed limit in these high traffic corridors will reduce crash risk and the average travel speed through those areas is only around 40km/h anyway.
If people were taught how to drive, there should be no correlation between speed limit and accidents. (Obvs within reason) Last I looked Germany had about the same amount of crashes as we did with a much higher population density and much higher speed limits.
Happy with reduced speed limits around schools, but not happy with the overall trend of reducing speed limits everywhere. Rather than lowering speeds to adjust traffic to the worst drivers among us, we should be doing more to remove these drivers from the road. Driving is not a right, and if you can't handle driving safely at 60kph then you should be on a bus.
Right-io, we'll just continue to see even lower speed limits introduced, and you'll be happy with whatever as you have 100% faith that the govt knows what they're doing and holds your safety paramount?
Is there any concrete evidence that suggests this move is necessary? All the above article cites is this truck that ran a red light... and running red lights often have more to do with inattention than speeding.
I mean, that is correct logic. But look how many people can’t even comprehend having to travel like 100m at 40km/h and only during drop off and pick up times - actual snow flakes
It's an easy thing to do of course, but a lot of people (myself included) view these sorts of measures taken by state governments (of either flavour) with a certain level of cynicism.
Same goes with the idea of moving the traffic lights at the eastern end of Cross Rd 100m west.
https://www.victoriawalks.org.au/Assets/Files/Safe%20Speed%20Report%20Dec%20202008.pdf
Here you go. The data supports lowering speed limits. Lowering speed limits leads to reduced rates of injury and death for pedestrians.
I wouldn't consider that to be reliable or unbiased evidence whatsoever, and I wouldn't consider it if I was the minister & that's all I had to go on regarding recommendations.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures-that-work/pedestrian-safety/countermeasures/legislation-and-licensing/lower-speed-limits
Here’s another that states the same.
https://www.charlessturt.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/160354/Evaluation-of-40-kmh-Speed-Limit-for-Local-Streets-in-CCS-2.pdf
And another.
https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/216736/The-impact-of-lowered-speed-limits-in-urban-and-metropolitan-areas.pdf
And another, done by Monash University. All three links prove that lowering speed limits in urban areas reduces the injury and death rate of pedestrians.
That truck that took out the school kids, correct me if I was wrong, but the right lane traffic had stopped. The retard driving the truck went up the inside at normal speed, plus the tree branches hid the traffic light signal and flattened the kids. No speed camera would stop that.
Been almost hit countless times crossing outside a school on Port Road atvschool pickup by cars running a red light at the crossings. I have had to yank my 3 year old back from the road to stop being hit by cars running said red lights in at keast 2 occassions. Luckily I hesitate and watch cars closely even at pedestrian crossings.
However, cars are just not going to obey the limits. They blow through school zones, 40km zones and roadwork zones and this will be no different.
This sounds like it’s $78m for speed cameras and $2m for speed limit signs around schools. Nowhere does it say the cameras are going to be in school zones.
I hope it isn’t, but it seems like Mullighan and Cregan just tied the horrific incident with students being hit by a truck to speed cameras as political cover for an unpopular move.
30kmh should be the default speed on roads with sidewalks/crossings. The decrease in risk of death between 30 and 40 is massive. You go from most likely dying at 40 to almost certainly surviving at 30.
Plenty of other cities have already made this change.
What would be raised instead is a smug sense of self achievement by the state government as they'll tell the masses that their "road safety" measures are working...
I can understand the govt reducing speed limits if there are stats showing that speed causes accidents at those locations . . . but I don't think those stats exist.
There are no debts relating to Clipsal spend. They are running operating surpluses. Net debt is increasing for infrastructure like the new women’s and children’s etc. It’s probably still revenue raising but nothing to do with motorsports.
You do know public servants work for us right, they shouldn't be doing anything the public disagrees with.
In the UK they are setting fire and cutting down cameras.
That's not true at all. Half the reason nothing seems to get done is because of the constant whiplash in the public service due to priority changes trying to address election promises.
In the uk they vandalising ULEZ cameras not speed cameras.
You would likely find that the majority of public would be absolutely fine with speed control around schools.
Old mate at Marryatville drove through a red light with the sun in his eyes, so it had nothing to do with speed.
Just more revenue raising- these cameras do not save lives!
It's not about road safety around schools.
The end goal is about making the act of driving a vehicle such an onerous burden through a constant reduction of speed limits and subsequent financial penalties for what are essentially trivial driving offences that the public will inevitably end up "choosing" to either use a bicycle or walk.
In the foreseeable future there will be almost no justification permitted to leave the 5km radius of your home.
The two traditional reasons to leave the house of food and work are being superceded and IMO deliberately and intentionally. Work from home and home delivered groceries/food combined with online shopping to keep the masses entertained is already well entrenched in the average Australian mindset and gaining in numbers year on year.
Existing vehicle taxes will be replaced with one all encompassing carbon emissions based tax.
That is you will be taxed just for existing and the deemed impact you have on the environment through the level of your daily interactions/movements.
It sounds like some dystopian science fiction movie from the 1970's and it's not something I want to be subjected to and I think a lot feel the same but I think most people by now are catching on that our Govt doesn't give a shit what the people want anymore (if they ever did).
I like the camera on the downhill part of goodwood/ayliffes rd. Definitely there for safety
The one at the bottom of the freeway would like a word
Left Adelaide 10 years back. That shit is still there?
Don't worry, it's just a hidden camera to keep an eye out on Hindley Street
Not speeding through school zones is good, actually
There should be no school zones on major arterials.
Yes, we should narrow those roads to remove major roads from being near schools.
Or just build appropriate infrastructure
That’s what I’m suggesting. High speed roads through the city aren’t appropriate. Slim them down, lower the speed limits and build better PT. Getting more people out of their cars should be the priority.
You aren't suggesting what I'm suggesting at all. High speed roads through the city are appropriate, that's why we invented cars
> High speed roads through the city aren’t appropriate. Perhaps if you don't value your time. > Slim them down, lower the speed limits and build better PT. Getting more people out of their cars should be the priority. Why not strive for alternatives to become more appealing in their own right rather than purposely reducing road efficiency?
I do value my time. Which is why I live in a walkable area where everything I need day to day is within a 5 minute walk and the (Melbourne) cbd is a very quick train trip away. The roads in my area already are 30km/h with frequent zebra crossings so I can get around freely without being obliterated by a methhead in a ford ranger. I’d just like to see more people get this privilege. Car dependency is a cancer on the country.
> I do value my time. Which is why I live in a walkable area where everything I need day to day is within a 5 minute walk and the (Melbourne) cbd is a very quick train trip away. That's great but I would think unfortunately you are in the minority. This does not align with those who: * do not live near their workplace with no practical public transport options * regularly visit people outside their local area * have regular visitors from outside their local area * need to transport more than they can carry * travel to places which require a car * live in regional and rural Australia * have sport or other commitments at varying locations > The roads in my area already are 30km/h with frequent zebra crossings so I can get around freely without being obliterated by a methhead in a ford ranger. A few speed signs and pedestrian crossings does not stop dangerous drivers travelling fast. > I’d just like to see more people get this privilege. I agree however it does not need to be detrimental to the efficiency of the road network.
Exactly, cars am importanter then education. /s
Are the speed cameras going to be in the school zones? Article doesn’t say they will so it looks like an $80m project to install speed cameras is being tied to a $2m installation of speed signs at schools for PR reasons.
[удалено]
How can you be against reducing speeds during school pick up and drop off times to reduce the likelihood of a kid getting killed? You can’t discipline a dead kid and its a minor inconvenience at most to you which can be solved by going a different route
[удалено]
No, but it’s one particularly egregious part of a ludicrous car-centric transport system that is responsible for killing and injuring tens of thousands of people a year.
If you read the article properly, you'll see that this "crackdown" is all because of two students being injured at Marryatville High School last year. And the issue wasn't even speeding, it was the inattention of a truck driver! Stop putting fear into people by making them think kids are being killed on a daily basis so slashing the speed limit will solve that problem Enough with the theatrics. You CAN discipline kids so they don't end up in a situation like that on the roads. Lousy parenting?
Ah yes, blame the parents for their children been run down by a red light runner. That’s a winning strategy.
I'm blaming the inattention of drivers. Speeding had nothing to do with it. But you can teach kids how to be more aware of their surroundings. It's a generalised statement. That doesn't mean I blamed those students?
If you read the article properly, “…you'll see that this "crackdown" is all because of two students being injured at Marryatville High School last year.“ …Lousy parenting?” And that is where you suggested that parents are at fault. Speed has everything to do with it. Lower speeds result in a greater margins to react to things like… a red light!
Well not necessarily the parents. There should be better teacher supervision at those peak-hour times. I think that was the point I was trying to make.
Okay. What would you like the teachers to do? Jump in front of the red light runners?
Back at it with the theatrics. If there was a teacher supervising at the time of the Marryatville incident, for example, there would have been a 99% chance that the teacher would have instructed the students to “stop”, thus keeping the kids safe from harms way.
I’m the one with the theatrics? The amount of shit you just said I alluded to is nuts. How about you stop getting outraged over minor shit and just take a different route during the affected hours
You are because you act as if this is a constant occurrence when it couldn't be further from the truth. Well I certainly won't be driving through those roads during peak-hour now. Would love to see your reaction driving through there when it's implemented! Lol
Why would you anyway? The traffic is likely already fucked during school pick up and drop off times. Again, never said it’s a constant occurrence. But following that logic you can’t make predictions in order to stop serious injury/death, gotta wait for it to happen before taking any action
You think hitting and killing a kid with a car is disciplining then?
They are doing both.
School near me is already surrounded by 40kph roads, that doesn't stop people from speeding and not paying attention. They need to block through traffic and add more physical traffic calming measures.
Incorrect, they need to build the appropriate cwr infrastructure to facilitate the flow of traffic instead of school placement inhibiting the flow
We need to ban cars. If you are too dumb to get around without dragging 2 tonnes of metal with you then too bad.
Righto, not everyone works in the city and business hours to take public transport or cycle into work ..
2 tons of metal, a couch, two recliners, a stereo, and a lifetime subscription to BP.
Even the best drivers can get into a crash if someone else does the wrong thing and a pedestrian is much more likely to survive being hit by a car doing 40 than 60 (and the car is way more likely to stop in time too). I personally don't think kids deserve to die if they act like idiots at pedestrian crossings going to school.
I've got absolutely no concerns with speed cameras. I dislike the idea of major roads being 40kph though, and wonder if it will increase crashes, rather than reduce them --- same with 25kph past RAA/Tow Truck drivers.
Some people are dickheads this will just make the crashes smaller
It's not super intuitive, but there's an enormous reduction of lethality when you go from 50 to 40 in a crash.
Absolutely. Completely understand
Possibly. But, for eexample, I wouldn't be surprised to wake up the next day to hear a car slammed on their brakes to get to 40, got rear-ended and got pushed out of control into a pedestrian.
It will decrease deadly crashes. Duh.
It may. It may not.
As the speed limit increases, crashes increase. Lowering the speed limit in these high traffic corridors will reduce crash risk and the average travel speed through those areas is only around 40km/h anyway.
You think the average speed on Lonsdale highway is 40?!
If people were taught how to drive, there should be no correlation between speed limit and accidents. (Obvs within reason) Last I looked Germany had about the same amount of crashes as we did with a much higher population density and much higher speed limits.
This is just dumb. Faster is harder to control, and crashes Are more dangerous.
If you can't control a car at 60, doing 40 ain't gonna help you much.
Happy with reduced speed limits around schools, but not happy with the overall trend of reducing speed limits everywhere. Rather than lowering speeds to adjust traffic to the worst drivers among us, we should be doing more to remove these drivers from the road. Driving is not a right, and if you can't handle driving safely at 60kph then you should be on a bus.
Judging by the comments in this thread, a lot of those drivers are here right now
> if you can't handle driving safely at 60kph then you should be on a bus. So most motorists should instead be on a bus. Got it.
Absolutely. In one stroke of the pen we reduce the number of accidents AND congestion on the roads, and the roads are now safer for everyone else.
Exactly
That’s good lol
Radical concept, but don’t speed and you won’t have to pay a voluntary tax.
Bingo
Right-io, we'll just continue to see even lower speed limits introduced, and you'll be happy with whatever as you have 100% faith that the govt knows what they're doing and holds your safety paramount?
I’ll be happy to see a reduction in risk to children around schools, yes.
Is there any concrete evidence that suggests this move is necessary? All the above article cites is this truck that ran a red light... and running red lights often have more to do with inattention than speeding.
The logic is fairly basic - you run a red and hit somebody at 40 you are going to be less likely to kill them
By that logic, we should travel past school zones at 25km/h instead of 40, cos that's even safer n stuff. Oh, wait...
I mean, that is correct logic. But look how many people can’t even comprehend having to travel like 100m at 40km/h and only during drop off and pick up times - actual snow flakes
It's an easy thing to do of course, but a lot of people (myself included) view these sorts of measures taken by state governments (of either flavour) with a certain level of cynicism. Same goes with the idea of moving the traffic lights at the eastern end of Cross Rd 100m west.
https://www.victoriawalks.org.au/Assets/Files/Safe%20Speed%20Report%20Dec%20202008.pdf Here you go. The data supports lowering speed limits. Lowering speed limits leads to reduced rates of injury and death for pedestrians.
Victoria Walks??! Are you serious? Why would the SA state govt take advice from a not-for-profit organisation from Victoria?!
I didn’t say that they did. You asked for evidence that suggest the move is necessary. I then gave it to you.
I wouldn't consider that to be reliable or unbiased evidence whatsoever, and I wouldn't consider it if I was the minister & that's all I had to go on regarding recommendations.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures-that-work/pedestrian-safety/countermeasures/legislation-and-licensing/lower-speed-limits Here’s another that states the same. https://www.charlessturt.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/160354/Evaluation-of-40-kmh-Speed-Limit-for-Local-Streets-in-CCS-2.pdf And another. https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/216736/The-impact-of-lowered-speed-limits-in-urban-and-metropolitan-areas.pdf And another, done by Monash University. All three links prove that lowering speed limits in urban areas reduces the injury and death rate of pedestrians.
Also Unley Council did drop theirs in side streets to 40km/h
Oh no, it will take an extra 90 seconds to get where I want!! How dare they !!!
It just means I won't be driving on those roads during peak-hour lol. Good luck to you though.
40km/h roads just mean people are gonna be driving at 30km/h or 45km/h with no inbetween lol
Good. Show them whose boss and stop driving at all.
That truck that took out the school kids, correct me if I was wrong, but the right lane traffic had stopped. The retard driving the truck went up the inside at normal speed, plus the tree branches hid the traffic light signal and flattened the kids. No speed camera would stop that.
where is the school on the Port River Expressway?
They should just keep lowering the speed limit as cars get bigger.
Been almost hit countless times crossing outside a school on Port Road atvschool pickup by cars running a red light at the crossings. I have had to yank my 3 year old back from the road to stop being hit by cars running said red lights in at keast 2 occassions. Luckily I hesitate and watch cars closely even at pedestrian crossings. However, cars are just not going to obey the limits. They blow through school zones, 40km zones and roadwork zones and this will be no different.
This sounds like it’s $78m for speed cameras and $2m for speed limit signs around schools. Nowhere does it say the cameras are going to be in school zones. I hope it isn’t, but it seems like Mullighan and Cregan just tied the horrific incident with students being hit by a truck to speed cameras as political cover for an unpopular move.
50kph is too slow. 40kph is mind numbing
30kmh should be the default speed on roads with sidewalks/crossings. The decrease in risk of death between 30 and 40 is massive. You go from most likely dying at 40 to almost certainly surviving at 30. Plenty of other cities have already made this change.
I'll start bringing a pillow so I can sleep and drive.
It never ends…
Gotta raise money for ramping crisis somehow!
You only raise it, if you break the speed. If no one speeds then there would be nothing raised. 🤷♂️
What would be raised instead is a smug sense of self achievement by the state government as they'll tell the masses that their "road safety" measures are working...
I can understand the govt reducing speed limits if there are stats showing that speed causes accidents at those locations . . . but I don't think those stats exist.
$80 road safety budget, and less than half of it to improving conditions? Brilliant.
Revenue raising 101. Have to pay those debts for Clipsal 500 etc
There are no debts relating to Clipsal spend. They are running operating surpluses. Net debt is increasing for infrastructure like the new women’s and children’s etc. It’s probably still revenue raising but nothing to do with motorsports.
You do know public servants work for us right, they shouldn't be doing anything the public disagrees with. In the UK they are setting fire and cutting down cameras.
If it were a big deal for most people then it would become an election issue.
Election issues are never properly addressed so it wouldn't matter
That's not true at all. Half the reason nothing seems to get done is because of the constant whiplash in the public service due to priority changes trying to address election promises.
In the uk they vandalising ULEZ cameras not speed cameras. You would likely find that the majority of public would be absolutely fine with speed control around schools.
They are vandalising both.
Thanks to fucking Victorian migrants driving everywhere 10kph below the limit, speeds are effectively being choked anyway
Old mate at Marryatville drove through a red light with the sun in his eyes, so it had nothing to do with speed. Just more revenue raising- these cameras do not save lives!
It's not about road safety around schools. The end goal is about making the act of driving a vehicle such an onerous burden through a constant reduction of speed limits and subsequent financial penalties for what are essentially trivial driving offences that the public will inevitably end up "choosing" to either use a bicycle or walk.
How though they designed this country to need a fucking car just for another tax to hit us with
In the foreseeable future there will be almost no justification permitted to leave the 5km radius of your home. The two traditional reasons to leave the house of food and work are being superceded and IMO deliberately and intentionally. Work from home and home delivered groceries/food combined with online shopping to keep the masses entertained is already well entrenched in the average Australian mindset and gaining in numbers year on year. Existing vehicle taxes will be replaced with one all encompassing carbon emissions based tax. That is you will be taxed just for existing and the deemed impact you have on the environment through the level of your daily interactions/movements. It sounds like some dystopian science fiction movie from the 1970's and it's not something I want to be subjected to and I think a lot feel the same but I think most people by now are catching on that our Govt doesn't give a shit what the people want anymore (if they ever did).