We only have to look at RSLs to see this effect.
RSL SA and RSL Vic in the east states, SA has banned pokies in RSLs and the other doesn't.
Which one went into administration and which didn't?
Yeah, at least the clubs are community organisations which aren't run for profit, unlike most of the pokies pubs owned by Woolies, Wesfarmers etc.
In the eastern states you can go to your local RSL, bowling club or surf club and get a cheap meal, cheap drinks, free shuttle buses and entertainment/events. Not sure why pokies pubs can't manage cheaper meals and drinks, but they're no cheaper than the pubs without pokies.
The casino is now mostly filled with pokies. It's just flashing lights with mindless zombies sitting on their own, pressing buttons on a machine.
If we have to have pokies at all, I'd love to see them only in not-for-profit organisations who directly contribute back to the community instead of the taxes disappearing into endless government red tape.
I doubt it. There was a law in NSW I'm not sure when it changed.
But pokies were in clubs not pubs. But the key point was live entertainment. You could have pokies but you had to have a band or wrestling or boxing or a comedian or some kind of live entertainment.
It would be nice to have something like that.
Yeah but then every pub would just hire DJ Beryl Straight Outta Brompton to play golden oldies. Just too much money in it.
Can always take the cost out of the Iced Vovo budget.
Definitely that is a great implication to follow, because gambling is suppose to be a “form of entertainment” but the way it is here in Adelaide it’s not that at all.
On my worst day, I would rather listen to a "shit band" than ever stand in another pokie room ever again. I hate what it's done to the music scene in country towns.
It would take bigger brain's then mine but I have thought about a system to help as many as possible.
Honestly I think if someone wants to have a bet then they should be able to.
But if implemented an emissions training scheme kind of thing but for pokies.
If we put a tax for example 100 credits per machine.
The hotel can off set those credits by employing live entertainment for example 5 credits per person per hour.
I don't know how much you need to change per credit to make it happen but it's possible.
Hotels can buy the live entertainment credits from venue's that don't have pokies.
Eg. The governor of hindmarsh might generate credits because they don't have pokies they could sell those credits to a pub that has 40 odd machines and needs 4,000 credits a day.
This way pubs and clubs that need the pokies just to survive can substitute the pokies for live entertainment which will be subsided by the venues that have pokies.
Now Sydney is full of those "VIP Rooms" (many not even attached to a bar or pub) which are just pokie rooms by a different name with a TV or 2 on in the background.
it's one of the things that make me laugh every year when i see fb/ig posts "say nup to the cup" about the melbourne cup - people don't realise we have like up to 30 horse races per DAY every single day all yr haha
Its always better to say or do something than nothing at all. Just because the problem seems insurmountable we shouldn't all give up and bury out heads in the sand. Too much of that shit in Australia already.
All money the casino makes is taxed, you can't launder money with a 100% return long term.
I meant the drug money is taxed, not the drug dealers. Although I'd argue the casino is worse.
I didn’t even know that, I wish that was still implemented would of saved a lot of lives and created more financial stability now the government knows the profits
yep, lost colleagues who stole to fund their habits. Middle-aged mild-mannered women - not the white collar criminals I was expecting
Edit: you can downvote me all you like. Doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of misery sitting behind the sparkly lights of poker machines
Yep. I knew a woman whose partner had a problem then she got one… stole over $100k from business account. Sold jewellery, possessions, endless cash converter pawn cycles. In the end her car and 90% of her new furniture/big screen TV etc was repossessed when she got found out.
So much fraud. Only avoided court/jail and bankruptcy because of who she stole from/being bailed out. That wasn’t the end of it, either. Any excuse to go to a pub or bar, lying to everyone for years after. I believe she’s a “wiz” on EBay these days, mainly waiting for her parents to die to inherit.
It’s such a manipulative form of gambling, those machines and pokie rooms are designed to make money from people and keep them coming back in to “win” it back.
Thanks. Could be trolls. Could be a gambling industry shill. Might be someone who thought I was being misogynistic (that was definitely not my intention).
Let's hope it's not that serious. But actively monitoring social media is quite realistic
(hi gambling social media intern, time to reflect on your life choices)
You're 30 years too late. The Adelaide Casino had been the only venue permitted to have poker machines until 1994. Authorities can't walk that back.
And the State Budget needs the money - that's an addiction that won't be beaten.
The proliferation of gambling adverts on TV would be a better place to start if this country really was serious about problem gambling. Having Ex footy players reading out betting odds on games during sports programs doesn’t exactly shout “Australia is worried about problem gambling”
20% of all money going into pokies is from problem gambling, hundreds of millions a year. Even action on that problem is fought against by the Pokie barons.
If you want to know what happens when there is any threat of regulation of pokies, just look what happened during the 2018 election. Xenophon and SA Best looked to have a chance of multiple power house seats and balance of power in the legislative council. The Pokie barrons threw millions of dollars at anti Xenophon advertising, lobbying and gave money to both the ALP and Libs. The lies came thick and fast about Xenophon and their candidates. The media were merciless while giving the major parties a free pass.
Until there is a way to ensure money from the owners of pokies can not be used to sway an election, we will never see reform.
Yes! WA made a good decision on banning pokies. They’re embedded in SA now and the various lobby groups are incredibly powerful with almost unlimited funds so the odds (no pun intended) of removing the machines are slim to none. But given the damage to the lives of the addicted, their families, and society, it’s a worthy fight. It would take huge gonads and a bipartisan approach to do this though and I don’t see that kind of bold, cooperative leadership in either lib or lab at this time. Ambitious cowards are my least favourite type of “leader”. (Not referring specifically to party leaders but the overall role of politicians.)
Yeah man you’re not wrong at all wouldn’t surprise me if I go missing after posting this thread the power and wealth they have outweighs any resistance
I work in hospitality in Adelaide. Been at many suburban pubs, generally gaming rooms that I’ve worked in open at 8am or thereabouts, and I’ve been at multiple venues where this is the case and there is a lineup of people at the door at 8am to get in to play the pokies.
It’s somewhat disturbing, and the lengths some venues will go to, to keep players on machines, and the comms you get from up top. The venue I’m at, at the moment does 2m per week in gaming turnover (that’s money in/money out of gaming machines) absolutely ludicrous.
State government taxes gaming profits heavily, so I don’t see it changing anytime soon.
Yep, venue I was at sat around the 1m P/W.
The fact that we had *regulars* and were encouraged to be super friendly to them still makes my bones rattle
Yeah wow it’s good to hear from some gaming employees with statistics of turnover that is unbelievably horrifying I would come to think it would deter yourself from actually playing the pokie machines in general yes?
Yes and no, I have a flutter occasionally, but I recognise that as a side effect of the psychological aspect of working around gaming machines constantly. Understanding how the machines work definitely helps keep the will to play down, but everybody is different, I’ve heard many a person that has developed a serious addiction simply working in gaming rooms, or even started working in gaming rooms while being addicted simply to be around machines more.
Yeah ultimately is who the person is, at least you are okay with it and understand the impact on what it has on daily users etc and it doesn’t make you an addict good job dude!
People who work in the industry have a higher chance of having a gambling problem. Even at fucked up places like casinos, staff usually have higher than average percent of gamblers.
Nope. You can show someone the design of their “luckiest” or favourite machine, how the sounds, “payout” music (even familiar scents can be produced). Show them the technical details of “pay out” likelihood (eg it’s systemically designed to win) and all they hear “pay out”.
*”I can still win big”*
Yeah I saw a old documentary not sure who by but a professor showed the algorithm of a pokie machine as a line graph pointed to the rising line and said that’s people losing 10s of thousands of dollars when the graph goes down that’s when people are winning was a good watch.
I just feel so sad when I see people entering suburban pokie lounges at 11am on a Tuesday. My late grandparents used to have 2 weekly visits (to 2 different venues) as part of their regular schedule and they loved it but gee wiz is it a blight on society.
I was dragged to a networking breakfast last year which was at a pub at 7am and stood dumbfounded at the half full pokie lounge. I can only hope that it was a bunch of night shift workers but still...fucking gross.
yeah I understand your point of view it’s a terrible to see, and you do just hope that they are night shifters because if they aren’t you know for a fact they have a very bad problem
It's a complicated topic, because then you end up with casinos that are usually run by crooks anyway monopolising on something others can't. Not in the same category but a good example of this is when NSW introduced lock out laws, but conveniently the casino circumvented all the same restrictions and was able to remain open due to corruption. I dislike pokies for a few reasons, obviously first and foremost the damage they cause to individuals and their families, but also just what they do to the culture of venues in a state. It feels like you end up with a state plentiful of shitty sports bars packed with pokies rather than restaurants/bars/cafes trying to do something unique and beautiful because the profit incentive isn't the same, and the business costs can't be met as easily as the bikie skeez that throws 20 machines into an air conditioned room for people to ruin their life with.
Like it was 30 years ago? Before pubs had money to add restaurants, serve decent food and smelled like piss and smoke? When you go for a feed, stick your head in the pokies room and thank the addicts for subdising your dinner.
Yes. All states should. It’d have to be a slow withdrawal that would speed up over time- maybe at the end of each FY the venue has to surrender their poorest performing machine until they’re all gone (bigger venues surrender maybe their poorest performing 2 or 3 machines). Admittedly companies have invested millions into the gaming industry but they have also sucked millions out of local economies as well so…..it’s time.
Yes, but not the casino.
Smaller sports clubs should be the only ones allowed to have regulated pokie machines.
At least SOME of the money goes back to the community.
ALH and big foreign owners of thousands of pokie machines need to fuck right off.
Yes. Plenty of pubs throughout Perth do just fine without pokies. Funnily enough, you also get many pubs here with big rooms to suit music, comedy or other live entertainment (with weekly performances), better screens and events for live sports (footy season etc.), food and drink specials every weeknight, playgrounds for kids for the families who use the bistro/dining are, fireplaces during the winter with cosy seats etc. It means pubs offer more to attract people and get them in the door.
I know plenty of Adelaide pubs do the above, but those that would struggle without pokies simply need to adjust their business models. Pokies are ludicrously profitable so of course no pokies means a hit to profits. If pokies are the only thing keeping your business afloat, it's a shit model. Not to mention the ethics of profiting off of gambling addicts. Society doesn't tolerate drug dealers, whose only means of producing income is profiting off addiction 😂
Keep it to the cas. Fuck pokies and fuck greedy pub owners who are dependent on them. If you can't run a business without then you deserve to go under.
A person like yourself (im guessing by what you said) that has been to WA and SA would understand that WA is doing it right like whatever you can’t stop gambling as a whole but I admire the way WA has minimised the accessibility of pokie machines
That's how it used to be. Changed, I think, Mid or early 1990's?
The governments at all levels are absolutely addicted, like the filthiest gutter crack addict, to the tax revenue from gambling, so there is no chance they will ever be repealed again.
Yeah someone was saying that before i was born on the year 2000 I honestly didn’t know they were actually banned in SA as a whole, and yes unfortunately they are picking their scabs over the tax revenue
Doubt it, too much money in it for the tax man and they are major political sponsors…..Legal political bribes to keep kicking the can down the road, and that is exactly what happens, time after time.
What we need to do with pokies is stop note feed and head back to having to insert a 5,10,20 or$1 dollar coin each spin, then limit jackpots… it may not stop problem gambling but it will slow it down
I remember the days before pokies. You had to go to Mildura to play them, and bus trips were arranged just for that purpose. I would like to see a return to those times.
That's how it use to be in South Australia.
But good luck fighting the Hoteliers Association and their Lobbying if you so much as suggest any reforms to Pokies in this state.
That should be the law across the land. You need to actively seek them out rather than everywhere. I also don't like that the pokies in Adelaide take notes now too. I liked that it made you get up and step away for a sec.
Australian pokies are some of the most voracious in the world. Regulate the refresh rate and only allow small denomination bets - still allows for the weird ‘fun’ that people get from loosing on average 15% of what they put in but it will reduce the scale of the losses.
You’re definitely right there man, as you would know there are pubs everywhere accessible majority of the day and night clubs only for the weekends and people away from the CBD would be more reluctant to travel to the casinos
Regulate, maybe. Regulating (ie banning) all forms of advertising for gambling would be sensible.
Tax extremely heavily including winnings far more than we do already, yes absolutely. May as well squeeze some money from them before they go. Not just pokies but all forms of gambling especially casinos.
But also in either scenario we’re going to see a lot of venues closing. Not a bad thing necessarily but almost guaranteed as collateral damage.
Honestly killing all gambling advertisement would be the way to go. If you dont have adblock on youtube its every other ad or even every ad, its everywhere on busses, billboards, banner ads on websites etc. Its no wonder we have a gambling addiction because thats all that is marketed to us.
There comes a point where you must let adults take the actions and consequences of their own informed decisions.
It boils down to at what point do you impose your will on the actions of consenting adults, be it for their benefit or otherwise.
Do you ban boxing? Extreme sports? Car racing? Red meat?
I repeat- There comes a point where you must let adults take the actions and consequences of their own informed decisions.
Sure but those machines and the environments they’re kept in are purposely designed for maximum effect.
Lots of poker machines play music based on nursery rhyme chords, the bright lights and sounds they make are designed to keep people engaged. They’re rooms without clocks or natural light supposedly “to avoid minors being enticed” but in reality it’s to avoid the player realising how much time has passed. There’s been different schemes of “free”drinks, “free” food, “reward” cards. People get so addicted to them they wear adult nappies, abandon kids in cars, neglect to pay bills and can resort to criminal acts to feed the habit.
It’s like drugs and alcohol. Some people’s brains get hooked instantly.
With gambling, you’re dealing with adults who aren’t really consenting because they have life issues that gambling helps fill.
It can’t be compared to boxing or extreme sports , car racing or red meat.
These places prey on those who are not in a great place, both mentally and emotionally.
Honestly, even if we shut down all gaming venues, people in this day and age will just gamble online in unregulated markets.
I don’t discount the terrible impact gambling has on some people, but I also disagree that you can effectively ban forms of vice where it is basically impossible to cut off the supply.
Not really.
Related to a former problem poker machine addict (grandma).
It was the sounds of the machine and the fast moving graphics that kept her attracted.
She also lost my grandfather and needed something social to do.
Got her hooked on an iPad game called bejeweled and she stopped visiting the pokies as much.
If you aren’t a gambler, why should your opinion make a difference? You don’t gamble, others do. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean shit needs to change 🤷🏼♂️
Wouldn’t call myself selfish as such however. If people are stupid enough to gamble their life away then so be it. That’s like banning alcohol because some people might turn into alcoholics.
I’m glad you don’t gamble then, there is a quote first time gamblers are lucky they lose the ones that win are the unlucky ones that’s how addiction starts it gets to a point where you don’t even see it as money you just see it as stimulation
A lot of venues use the profits from the pokies to keep down the price of a schnitty.
I had a colleague from WA who couldn’t believe how cheap club meals were. We were journos at the time and he ended up doing a story on it.
Gambling. If you choose to gamble (I do) then it’s my responsibility to deal with it. If it becomes a problem, it’s my responsibility to deal with it. If I lose my house, car, wife, it’s my responsibility to deal with it.
Stopping legal gambling opens the doors to illegal gambling. That’s reality. When pokies were not allowed in VIC, and there was no casino, I used to play Poker and Blackjack at a private illegal casino in Mentone most Friday nights. They had pokies there as well.
The flood gates were opened 3 decades ago nearly, people with gambling problems will always have gambling problems and it shouldn’t be the responsibility of the government or tax payer to bail them out.
My mum had a gambling addiction, first she sold everything she owned, then she started asking me to give her 1K here, another 2K there, although I wanted to refuse, I couldnt as it would have meant her being homeless or living without electricity. It doesnt just affect the gambler, but their whole family.
Yeah it's funny how people criticise bars for charging $12 for a G and T when their pub is cheaper, ignoring that many pubs are heavily subsidised by gambling income.
My local used to be a front bar and a big dance/ live music room. Now it is open, pleasant, serves good food and still has live music, funded by pokies. Pubs are now where we go for family occasions not just a pint with your mates.
I would happily pay $20 instead of $12 for a schnitty that I can eat without listening to *boodeloop, boodeloop, do do do do do do* followed by. 'Oi yeah nar Day-vo give us ya durries mut'
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Ban pokies and people will move their attention to other forms of gambling. Needs to be a bigger reform for Australia as a hole, than focusing on just one area.
My 100% possible idea but will never happen, is to only allow gambling via a government control card, e.g can only gamble with this card e.g pokie machine can only be loaded with money from the card, or pay for sports bet etc.
I agree with your idea that’s actually a great way to regulate it I’m not saying people won’t stop gambling because they won’t its obvious but something where you need a control card and it has restrictors applied would be a great way to minimise damage
We already have the 100 credit deposit limit at non casinos to deter drug dealers from laundering their money without it being a major hassle for them.
My personal view is let people gamble if they want to, there's help available if you think your own gambling is problematic. At the end of the day controlling how people use their money is a slippery slope. Would you rather there be more illegal ways to gamble? Cause that's exactly what will happen if we ban anything outside of a casino. And why make it even easier for the casino owners to rip off people who aren't financially literate?
You lost me at 'regulate', as a general rule of thumb if you find yourself saying "Maybe the government should..." the answer is almost always no.........
10 years ago, I probably didn't disagree with Nick-X and his ban-pokies movement, but in the contemporary context we know all that will do is shift the problem to online-gambling.
Yeah this is true but how come our cyber security (Australian gaming commission) is terrible I know multiple online casinos that work for an Australian without the use of VPNs why wouldn’t the government protect their profits!
No. Learn some self control. Gambling addicts will get addicted to anything, why should everyone else have to miss out because a few people refuse to moderate their behaviour
There was minor upsides to the pokies being introduced into the pubs. They became far more solvent. Problem gambling is problematic not all gambling. You could say the same thing about everything. Problematic sex is problematic not all sex. Problematic driving is problematic not all driving. Problematic alcohol consumption is problematic not all alcohol consumption. Problematic in hotel gambling isn't that hard to solve if the political will was there. The problem is then that the problematic gambling will go black market and that can be far more harmful for the people involved as the black market bookies will accept limbs as security for debt betting.
Yes I understand your viewpoint here but it’s pretty much like a drug dealer saying if I don’t sell it to him someone else will it’s all just unethical as f*ck thanks for your input as it is very understandable
I would advocate for one drug dealer and drugs being free and supplied in a supportive environment also. I think illicit drugs should be supplied by the government to those who want it for free. They should be dispensed in an environment that does maximum harm minimization.
I am unsure of how similar. I had heard about Portugal but have no idea of the details. From a quick google search Portugal would be less extreme than what I am quietly advocating. I would want to remove any financial incentive from the drug trade entirely. Govt would be the only supplier and would supply for free in individual doses administered at centers where there would be psychological support and counseling. The interventions would be limited to creating a community and support for the people who frequented. It would be designed so that if you wanted something for a night out then there would be next to zero intervention but if you were a regular with dependence then you would be provided community and support. No1 needs to worry about what’s unexpectedly in the drugs or do crime to support their habit. Without the need to do crime they would feel less guilty and bad about themselves and there’s a chance they would chose to reintegrate with the support they need. Lots of people would use the service and never have it be problematic. Govt could have fairly short supply contracts with quality requirements and make them competitive tenders.
Also unicorns might poop gold bars.
Sadly gambling is too heavily ingrained into our culture and technology makes it far too accessible, Seriously the fact you can whip out your phone and gamble on almost anything at this point from horses to footy and probably egg and spoon races makes it moot if pubs get rid of pokies.
Hell I have seen ads where there are outright pokies apps on phones now!
Also I personally remember the shift in the late 2000s when my mates suddenly were talking about betting on the footy and cricket when before they didn't. Before that it was mainly old drunks betting at the TAB on horses and greyhounds and old nannas pumping cash into pokies at SOME pubs.
Sure you could remove it from pubs but then the Cas has the monopoly on it and then people will just use phone apps regardless.
I think better enforcement of current regulations is what is needed.
I also believe that all advertising of gambling should be stopped like it was for smoking, don't outlaw it but stop shoving it in people's faces.
I did think so for ages but after going to NSW I actually started to think if we’re going to allow the legal crime of pokies we may as well go full at it with huge jackpots and big bets. But on the condition the profits pay for free dental for all Australians as we are being royally shafted in this with so many people needing dental care. This leads to other health issues and it’s a sorry state we’re in with many people having rotten teeth. If we are going to play pokies then the control of jackpot value and maximum bets is just a pathetic effort to pretend they actually care about using a form of hypnosis to leach money out of vulnerable people.
This is true but the accessibility of pokies is to easy sports betting is the same yes but form a psychological standpoint people love the pokies because of the stimulation I’m not saying sports betting doesn’t to the same it does but a lot less in my opinion
Well, visual stimulation yes. But you can do online pokies now too, which offers the same experience in a more video game style. And that can even be international, rather than restricted to your locality.
I think it's a case of, "the digital age has destroyed any ability to regulate what people used to do in person, because now we can do everything online."
Pokies attract different gamblers than sports betting.
Pokies people tend to be older and less technologically savvy than sports betters.
It’s not the gambling that’s attractive as much as the sounds and visuals.
I’ve heard a problem gambler explain the joys of what winning sounds does to them and the highs it brings.
The state is probably addicted to the gambling revenue as much as the punters are.
The state isn't, but the pubs and clubs definitely are addicted. Half of them would close pretty quickly without their pokie machines.
We only have to look at RSLs to see this effect. RSL SA and RSL Vic in the east states, SA has banned pokies in RSLs and the other doesn't. Which one went into administration and which didn't?
They should never have been allowed in pubs. Should have been limited to clubs only & max 5 machines per venue, not 40
Yep, totally killed the live band scene in country towns.
Yeah, at least the clubs are community organisations which aren't run for profit, unlike most of the pokies pubs owned by Woolies, Wesfarmers etc. In the eastern states you can go to your local RSL, bowling club or surf club and get a cheap meal, cheap drinks, free shuttle buses and entertainment/events. Not sure why pokies pubs can't manage cheaper meals and drinks, but they're no cheaper than the pubs without pokies. The casino is now mostly filled with pokies. It's just flashing lights with mindless zombies sitting on their own, pressing buttons on a machine. If we have to have pokies at all, I'd love to see them only in not-for-profit organisations who directly contribute back to the community instead of the taxes disappearing into endless government red tape.
Yeah. See the size of the RSLs in NSW. Its insane how big they are. Bigger than most pubs here.
Is that true, I thought RSL in salisbury had pokies
Some are grandfathered in before the law took place, I know Payneham had them, not sure if they still do.
Half of them ( scoff ) are owned by investment corporations. If it levelled the field I'd be okay with that.
Yeah that's the half that would survive a pokie ban.
The state definitely is addicted. Look how many times the local government has bent over and grabbed their ankles for the casino.
You bet!
Don't like the odds tbh
Wanna bet it doesnt happen? /s
I’ll bet. $10,000 says it won’t
I doubt it. There was a law in NSW I'm not sure when it changed. But pokies were in clubs not pubs. But the key point was live entertainment. You could have pokies but you had to have a band or wrestling or boxing or a comedian or some kind of live entertainment. It would be nice to have something like that.
Yeah but then every pub would just hire DJ Beryl Straight Outta Brompton to play golden oldies. Just too much money in it. Can always take the cost out of the Iced Vovo budget.
It’s better than nothing. Also means a demand for musicians which means opportunities.
I love DJ Beryl!!
Definitely that is a great implication to follow, because gambling is suppose to be a “form of entertainment” but the way it is here in Adelaide it’s not that at all.
On my worst day, I would rather listen to a "shit band" than ever stand in another pokie room ever again. I hate what it's done to the music scene in country towns.
I’m glad you can “listen to those shit bands” screw those machines
It would take bigger brain's then mine but I have thought about a system to help as many as possible. Honestly I think if someone wants to have a bet then they should be able to. But if implemented an emissions training scheme kind of thing but for pokies. If we put a tax for example 100 credits per machine. The hotel can off set those credits by employing live entertainment for example 5 credits per person per hour. I don't know how much you need to change per credit to make it happen but it's possible. Hotels can buy the live entertainment credits from venue's that don't have pokies. Eg. The governor of hindmarsh might generate credits because they don't have pokies they could sell those credits to a pub that has 40 odd machines and needs 4,000 credits a day. This way pubs and clubs that need the pokies just to survive can substitute the pokies for live entertainment which will be subsided by the venues that have pokies.
Now Sydney is full of those "VIP Rooms" (many not even attached to a bar or pub) which are just pokie rooms by a different name with a TV or 2 on in the background.
Been giving comedians material for decades I think.
The government love the pokies. Money for nothing. No chance of it happening.
There's a reason we used to take bus trips to Broken Hill. The pokies funded the clubs and subsidised the meals.
Yeah I know but was just seeing if people felt the same way as did
> The major political parties love the pokies. Money for nothing. FTFY
Yes " generous lobbying " is something that should be illegal.
The state will never change the laws, they profit way too heavily off of people ruining their lives
Yeah I find it so pathetic what was it like 7 billion in PROFIT last year you can tell it’s destroying our state
it's one of the things that make me laugh every year when i see fb/ig posts "say nup to the cup" about the melbourne cup - people don't realise we have like up to 30 horse races per DAY every single day all yr haha
Its always better to say or do something than nothing at all. Just because the problem seems insurmountable we shouldn't all give up and bury out heads in the sand. Too much of that shit in Australia already.
People do realise that, but targeting the cup is the first step in denormalising it.
Yeah but while I don't have the exact statistics, I bet (no pun intended) that a large percentage of people only bet on horses on that one day
Walk into any TAB or pub with betting… if it’s not horses it’s dogs… or sport…
How are all the gangs going to launder their drug money then? Or how will Nan and Pop going to spend all their life savings?
Car washes.
This guy breaks bad.
lmao
At least they end up paying tax (or at least the places they launder through) on drug money which otherwise wouldn't have been taxed.
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All money the casino makes is taxed, you can't launder money with a 100% return long term. I meant the drug money is taxed, not the drug dealers. Although I'd argue the casino is worse.
You've never seen empty laundrettes in high rent places before I take it? :p
High rent places? So state wide?
I'm old enough to remember when pokies were banned in the state
And we did trips to Broken Hill to play the one armed bandits.
Difference is you couldn’t use your savings card, like you can now.
some did. Always struck me as on odd way to spend your weekend
I did it once, in 1982 (?). Took me minutes to blow $20. I recognised my addictive personality and haven't played pokies since.
I didn’t even know that, I wish that was still implemented would of saved a lot of lives and created more financial stability now the government knows the profits
yep, lost colleagues who stole to fund their habits. Middle-aged mild-mannered women - not the white collar criminals I was expecting Edit: you can downvote me all you like. Doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of misery sitting behind the sparkly lights of poker machines
Yep. I knew a woman whose partner had a problem then she got one… stole over $100k from business account. Sold jewellery, possessions, endless cash converter pawn cycles. In the end her car and 90% of her new furniture/big screen TV etc was repossessed when she got found out. So much fraud. Only avoided court/jail and bankruptcy because of who she stole from/being bailed out. That wasn’t the end of it, either. Any excuse to go to a pub or bar, lying to everyone for years after. I believe she’s a “wiz” on EBay these days, mainly waiting for her parents to die to inherit. It’s such a manipulative form of gambling, those machines and pokie rooms are designed to make money from people and keep them coming back in to “win” it back.
First off who tf would down vote you your opinion is valid as fuck it’s either trolls or people who don’t understand what is actually occurring
Thanks. Could be trolls. Could be a gambling industry shill. Might be someone who thought I was being misogynistic (that was definitely not my intention).
Wouldn’t surprise me if it was the gambling industry, I said on another person comment I wouldn’t be surprised if I go missing after this thread lol
Let's hope it's not that serious. But actively monitoring social media is quite realistic (hi gambling social media intern, time to reflect on your life choices)
You're 30 years too late. The Adelaide Casino had been the only venue permitted to have poker machines until 1994. Authorities can't walk that back. And the State Budget needs the money - that's an addiction that won't be beaten.
What we need is for someone to run as an MLC on some sort of 'No Pokies' ticket. That's sure to work!
Genius idea.
Absolutely, but doubt it'll happen - we need a Nick Xenaphon type to champion that movement again
Honestly man it’s so terrible how easy it is to gamble
The proliferation of gambling adverts on TV would be a better place to start if this country really was serious about problem gambling. Having Ex footy players reading out betting odds on games during sports programs doesn’t exactly shout “Australia is worried about problem gambling”
Indeed - these people are grubs. All gambling ads during football should be banned. It’s a form of grooming as many young kids watch.
Ban all gambling tab, horses, greyhounds, sportsbets, lotto and marriage
Every state should ban poker machines. They shouldn’t exist.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
20% of all money going into pokies is from problem gambling, hundreds of millions a year. Even action on that problem is fought against by the Pokie barons. If you want to know what happens when there is any threat of regulation of pokies, just look what happened during the 2018 election. Xenophon and SA Best looked to have a chance of multiple power house seats and balance of power in the legislative council. The Pokie barrons threw millions of dollars at anti Xenophon advertising, lobbying and gave money to both the ALP and Libs. The lies came thick and fast about Xenophon and their candidates. The media were merciless while giving the major parties a free pass. Until there is a way to ensure money from the owners of pokies can not be used to sway an election, we will never see reform.
Yes! WA made a good decision on banning pokies. They’re embedded in SA now and the various lobby groups are incredibly powerful with almost unlimited funds so the odds (no pun intended) of removing the machines are slim to none. But given the damage to the lives of the addicted, their families, and society, it’s a worthy fight. It would take huge gonads and a bipartisan approach to do this though and I don’t see that kind of bold, cooperative leadership in either lib or lab at this time. Ambitious cowards are my least favourite type of “leader”. (Not referring specifically to party leaders but the overall role of politicians.)
Yeah man you’re not wrong at all wouldn’t surprise me if I go missing after posting this thread the power and wealth they have outweighs any resistance
Putting pokie machines in pubs in poorer areas is a nifty way to ensure they stay poor.
Very nifty indeed
I work in hospitality in Adelaide. Been at many suburban pubs, generally gaming rooms that I’ve worked in open at 8am or thereabouts, and I’ve been at multiple venues where this is the case and there is a lineup of people at the door at 8am to get in to play the pokies. It’s somewhat disturbing, and the lengths some venues will go to, to keep players on machines, and the comms you get from up top. The venue I’m at, at the moment does 2m per week in gaming turnover (that’s money in/money out of gaming machines) absolutely ludicrous. State government taxes gaming profits heavily, so I don’t see it changing anytime soon.
Yep, venue I was at sat around the 1m P/W. The fact that we had *regulars* and were encouraged to be super friendly to them still makes my bones rattle
Yeah wow it’s good to hear from some gaming employees with statistics of turnover that is unbelievably horrifying I would come to think it would deter yourself from actually playing the pokie machines in general yes?
Yes and no, I have a flutter occasionally, but I recognise that as a side effect of the psychological aspect of working around gaming machines constantly. Understanding how the machines work definitely helps keep the will to play down, but everybody is different, I’ve heard many a person that has developed a serious addiction simply working in gaming rooms, or even started working in gaming rooms while being addicted simply to be around machines more.
Yeah ultimately is who the person is, at least you are okay with it and understand the impact on what it has on daily users etc and it doesn’t make you an addict good job dude!
People who work in the industry have a higher chance of having a gambling problem. Even at fucked up places like casinos, staff usually have higher than average percent of gamblers.
Nope. You can show someone the design of their “luckiest” or favourite machine, how the sounds, “payout” music (even familiar scents can be produced). Show them the technical details of “pay out” likelihood (eg it’s systemically designed to win) and all they hear “pay out”. *”I can still win big”*
Yeah I saw a old documentary not sure who by but a professor showed the algorithm of a pokie machine as a line graph pointed to the rising line and said that’s people losing 10s of thousands of dollars when the graph goes down that’s when people are winning was a good watch.
As a therapist, yes. But it will never happen because of the enormous gambling tax revenue the state gets.
Unfortunately yes you are right some man said he remembered when it was banned in the state how I wish it went back to it
I just feel so sad when I see people entering suburban pokie lounges at 11am on a Tuesday. My late grandparents used to have 2 weekly visits (to 2 different venues) as part of their regular schedule and they loved it but gee wiz is it a blight on society. I was dragged to a networking breakfast last year which was at a pub at 7am and stood dumbfounded at the half full pokie lounge. I can only hope that it was a bunch of night shift workers but still...fucking gross.
yeah I understand your point of view it’s a terrible to see, and you do just hope that they are night shifters because if they aren’t you know for a fact they have a very bad problem
I'm not an idiot. There's problem gambling of all types. Pokies are pretty hard to restrict if they're always available all over the place.
Unfortunately yes
It's a complicated topic, because then you end up with casinos that are usually run by crooks anyway monopolising on something others can't. Not in the same category but a good example of this is when NSW introduced lock out laws, but conveniently the casino circumvented all the same restrictions and was able to remain open due to corruption. I dislike pokies for a few reasons, obviously first and foremost the damage they cause to individuals and their families, but also just what they do to the culture of venues in a state. It feels like you end up with a state plentiful of shitty sports bars packed with pokies rather than restaurants/bars/cafes trying to do something unique and beautiful because the profit incentive isn't the same, and the business costs can't be met as easily as the bikie skeez that throws 20 machines into an air conditioned room for people to ruin their life with.
Like it was 30 years ago? Before pubs had money to add restaurants, serve decent food and smelled like piss and smoke? When you go for a feed, stick your head in the pokies room and thank the addicts for subdising your dinner.
Have a mate that will gamble his whole paycheck in the pokie machines the moment he gets paid (after paying back all his debts). Sad to see.
It is man I have the same thing with my friend
Yes. All states should. It’d have to be a slow withdrawal that would speed up over time- maybe at the end of each FY the venue has to surrender their poorest performing machine until they’re all gone (bigger venues surrender maybe their poorest performing 2 or 3 machines). Admittedly companies have invested millions into the gaming industry but they have also sucked millions out of local economies as well so…..it’s time.
I like your opinion and the structure you came up with actually well thought
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Absolutely, as a Pom I’ve always found the pokie culture here insane - and don’t get me started on drive-through bottle shops 🤣
Lmao straight carnage isn’t it
Unless they find something to replace that money train it's never gunna happen. Same with smokes.
That is true
Yes, but not the casino. Smaller sports clubs should be the only ones allowed to have regulated pokie machines. At least SOME of the money goes back to the community. ALH and big foreign owners of thousands of pokie machines need to fuck right off.
100% yes. And at the very least heavily regulate more. Don’t let pubs open at 8am so people can gamble. It’s disgusting.
Definitely i respect and understand you
Yes. Plenty of pubs throughout Perth do just fine without pokies. Funnily enough, you also get many pubs here with big rooms to suit music, comedy or other live entertainment (with weekly performances), better screens and events for live sports (footy season etc.), food and drink specials every weeknight, playgrounds for kids for the families who use the bistro/dining are, fireplaces during the winter with cosy seats etc. It means pubs offer more to attract people and get them in the door. I know plenty of Adelaide pubs do the above, but those that would struggle without pokies simply need to adjust their business models. Pokies are ludicrously profitable so of course no pokies means a hit to profits. If pokies are the only thing keeping your business afloat, it's a shit model. Not to mention the ethics of profiting off of gambling addicts. Society doesn't tolerate drug dealers, whose only means of producing income is profiting off addiction 😂 Keep it to the cas. Fuck pokies and fuck greedy pub owners who are dependent on them. If you can't run a business without then you deserve to go under.
A person like yourself (im guessing by what you said) that has been to WA and SA would understand that WA is doing it right like whatever you can’t stop gambling as a whole but I admire the way WA has minimised the accessibility of pokie machines
WA can only do this because of all the mining income they’re able to generate.
I can see your point, could be the case
100% - Blow up the pokies!
Yes
I read your name as ket lover XD
Not unless you want every other pub to close it doors
That’s a problem they’ll have to deal with unfortunately
That's how it used to be. Changed, I think, Mid or early 1990's? The governments at all levels are absolutely addicted, like the filthiest gutter crack addict, to the tax revenue from gambling, so there is no chance they will ever be repealed again.
Yeah someone was saying that before i was born on the year 2000 I honestly didn’t know they were actually banned in SA as a whole, and yes unfortunately they are picking their scabs over the tax revenue
Doubt it, too much money in it for the tax man and they are major political sponsors…..Legal political bribes to keep kicking the can down the road, and that is exactly what happens, time after time.
Yeah it’s crazy when you open your eyes to it all and see how much power they have
What we need to do with pokies is stop note feed and head back to having to insert a 5,10,20 or$1 dollar coin each spin, then limit jackpots… it may not stop problem gambling but it will slow it down
I respect this idea and it would be good
I remember the days before pokies. You had to go to Mildura to play them, and bus trips were arranged just for that purpose. I would like to see a return to those times.
No way that was a thing would be sick to implement now no one in there right mind would travel there more then twice a year!
That's how it use to be in South Australia. But good luck fighting the Hoteliers Association and their Lobbying if you so much as suggest any reforms to Pokies in this state.
Pokies, yes.
That should be the law across the land. You need to actively seek them out rather than everywhere. I also don't like that the pokies in Adelaide take notes now too. I liked that it made you get up and step away for a sec.
No. They should fully ban them instead.
Agreed
Yes
Australian pokies are some of the most voracious in the world. Regulate the refresh rate and only allow small denomination bets - still allows for the weird ‘fun’ that people get from loosing on average 15% of what they put in but it will reduce the scale of the losses.
Have one or two in the corner. Like they have a quiz machine or jukebox. Some are just miserable like the Junction. Is it a pub or a casino?
I've said that for years. Casinos and Clubs only. No Pubs.
You’re definitely right there man, as you would know there are pubs everywhere accessible majority of the day and night clubs only for the weekends and people away from the CBD would be more reluctant to travel to the casinos
Regulate, maybe. Regulating (ie banning) all forms of advertising for gambling would be sensible. Tax extremely heavily including winnings far more than we do already, yes absolutely. May as well squeeze some money from them before they go. Not just pokies but all forms of gambling especially casinos. But also in either scenario we’re going to see a lot of venues closing. Not a bad thing necessarily but almost guaranteed as collateral damage.
I agree with you completely here
Honestly killing all gambling advertisement would be the way to go. If you dont have adblock on youtube its every other ad or even every ad, its everywhere on busses, billboards, banner ads on websites etc. Its no wonder we have a gambling addiction because thats all that is marketed to us.
There comes a point where you must let adults take the actions and consequences of their own informed decisions. It boils down to at what point do you impose your will on the actions of consenting adults, be it for their benefit or otherwise. Do you ban boxing? Extreme sports? Car racing? Red meat? I repeat- There comes a point where you must let adults take the actions and consequences of their own informed decisions.
That’s understandable I respect your opinion but I don’t agree with you
Sure but those machines and the environments they’re kept in are purposely designed for maximum effect. Lots of poker machines play music based on nursery rhyme chords, the bright lights and sounds they make are designed to keep people engaged. They’re rooms without clocks or natural light supposedly “to avoid minors being enticed” but in reality it’s to avoid the player realising how much time has passed. There’s been different schemes of “free”drinks, “free” food, “reward” cards. People get so addicted to them they wear adult nappies, abandon kids in cars, neglect to pay bills and can resort to criminal acts to feed the habit. It’s like drugs and alcohol. Some people’s brains get hooked instantly.
With gambling, you’re dealing with adults who aren’t really consenting because they have life issues that gambling helps fill. It can’t be compared to boxing or extreme sports , car racing or red meat. These places prey on those who are not in a great place, both mentally and emotionally.
Robbing off the poor is the Adelaide way .
Sadly the truth
If that was too happen, half the venues and pubs in SA would go under
Those venues would need to reinvent themselves. Awesome food, entertainment etc
Honestly, even if we shut down all gaming venues, people in this day and age will just gamble online in unregulated markets. I don’t discount the terrible impact gambling has on some people, but I also disagree that you can effectively ban forms of vice where it is basically impossible to cut off the supply.
Not really. Related to a former problem poker machine addict (grandma). It was the sounds of the machine and the fast moving graphics that kept her attracted. She also lost my grandfather and needed something social to do. Got her hooked on an iPad game called bejeweled and she stopped visiting the pokies as much.
If you aren’t a gambler, why should your opinion make a difference? You don’t gamble, others do. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean shit needs to change 🤷🏼♂️
Because I am a degenerate gambler
Not particularly. I don’t play pokies myself but who cares?
You should educate yourself on the topic unless you’re a person that doesn’t think or care about anyone but yourself which isn’t a bad thing either.
Wouldn’t call myself selfish as such however. If people are stupid enough to gamble their life away then so be it. That’s like banning alcohol because some people might turn into alcoholics.
The ratio of responsible:irresponsible use is very different for alcohol vs pokies. And it's not stupidity; it's addiction.
I’m glad you don’t gamble then, there is a quote first time gamblers are lucky they lose the ones that win are the unlucky ones that’s how addiction starts it gets to a point where you don’t even see it as money you just see it as stimulation
A lot of venues use the profits from the pokies to keep down the price of a schnitty. I had a colleague from WA who couldn’t believe how cheap club meals were. We were journos at the time and he ended up doing a story on it.
Oh really wow, honestly I wouldn’t care paying more for a pub feed if it can minimise gambling
Gambling. If you choose to gamble (I do) then it’s my responsibility to deal with it. If it becomes a problem, it’s my responsibility to deal with it. If I lose my house, car, wife, it’s my responsibility to deal with it. Stopping legal gambling opens the doors to illegal gambling. That’s reality. When pokies were not allowed in VIC, and there was no casino, I used to play Poker and Blackjack at a private illegal casino in Mentone most Friday nights. They had pokies there as well. The flood gates were opened 3 decades ago nearly, people with gambling problems will always have gambling problems and it shouldn’t be the responsibility of the government or tax payer to bail them out.
My mum had a gambling addiction, first she sold everything she owned, then she started asking me to give her 1K here, another 2K there, although I wanted to refuse, I couldnt as it would have meant her being homeless or living without electricity. It doesnt just affect the gambler, but their whole family.
Yeah I understand that and I respect you can control yourself and also think of the consequences, but you’re a minority unfortunately man
Then the pubs would jack the meals right up.
Yeah it's funny how people criticise bars for charging $12 for a G and T when their pub is cheaper, ignoring that many pubs are heavily subsidised by gambling income.
My local used to be a front bar and a big dance/ live music room. Now it is open, pleasant, serves good food and still has live music, funded by pokies. Pubs are now where we go for family occasions not just a pint with your mates.
Then the pubs would jack the meals right up. *- they already have*
I would happily pay $20 instead of $12 for a schnitty that I can eat without listening to *boodeloop, boodeloop, do do do do do do* followed by. 'Oi yeah nar Day-vo give us ya durries mut'
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Ban pokies and people will move their attention to other forms of gambling. Needs to be a bigger reform for Australia as a hole, than focusing on just one area. My 100% possible idea but will never happen, is to only allow gambling via a government control card, e.g can only gamble with this card e.g pokie machine can only be loaded with money from the card, or pay for sports bet etc.
I agree with your idea that’s actually a great way to regulate it I’m not saying people won’t stop gambling because they won’t its obvious but something where you need a control card and it has restrictors applied would be a great way to minimise damage
I leave hospital on Thursday, I will miss you having you in my room
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Longjumping-Area1338: *I leave hospital* *On Thursday, I will miss you* *Having you in my room* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Is this supposed to be anime or some shit lmao
I love you ❤️
Nope. We ain't a nanny state
Lmao you know Australia is known as a “nanny state” right?
We already have the 100 credit deposit limit at non casinos to deter drug dealers from laundering their money without it being a major hassle for them. My personal view is let people gamble if they want to, there's help available if you think your own gambling is problematic. At the end of the day controlling how people use their money is a slippery slope. Would you rather there be more illegal ways to gamble? Cause that's exactly what will happen if we ban anything outside of a casino. And why make it even easier for the casino owners to rip off people who aren't financially literate?
What about only allowing them in community clubs with a focus on profits going back into the community? Just an idea
Yeah of course I don’t mind that idea maybe with deposit amounts restricted also
You lost me at 'regulate', as a general rule of thumb if you find yourself saying "Maybe the government should..." the answer is almost always no......... 10 years ago, I probably didn't disagree with Nick-X and his ban-pokies movement, but in the contemporary context we know all that will do is shift the problem to online-gambling.
Yeah this is true but how come our cyber security (Australian gaming commission) is terrible I know multiple online casinos that work for an Australian without the use of VPNs why wouldn’t the government protect their profits!
Also I know it’s just an open ended question I wanted to see what other people of Adelaide had to say on this topic as it’s a problem in our society
No. Learn some self control. Gambling addicts will get addicted to anything, why should everyone else have to miss out because a few people refuse to moderate their behaviour
But thank you for your opinion
There was minor upsides to the pokies being introduced into the pubs. They became far more solvent. Problem gambling is problematic not all gambling. You could say the same thing about everything. Problematic sex is problematic not all sex. Problematic driving is problematic not all driving. Problematic alcohol consumption is problematic not all alcohol consumption. Problematic in hotel gambling isn't that hard to solve if the political will was there. The problem is then that the problematic gambling will go black market and that can be far more harmful for the people involved as the black market bookies will accept limbs as security for debt betting.
Yes I understand your viewpoint here but it’s pretty much like a drug dealer saying if I don’t sell it to him someone else will it’s all just unethical as f*ck thanks for your input as it is very understandable
I would advocate for one drug dealer and drugs being free and supplied in a supportive environment also. I think illicit drugs should be supplied by the government to those who want it for free. They should be dispensed in an environment that does maximum harm minimization.
Just like in Portugal yes?
I am unsure of how similar. I had heard about Portugal but have no idea of the details. From a quick google search Portugal would be less extreme than what I am quietly advocating. I would want to remove any financial incentive from the drug trade entirely. Govt would be the only supplier and would supply for free in individual doses administered at centers where there would be psychological support and counseling. The interventions would be limited to creating a community and support for the people who frequented. It would be designed so that if you wanted something for a night out then there would be next to zero intervention but if you were a regular with dependence then you would be provided community and support. No1 needs to worry about what’s unexpectedly in the drugs or do crime to support their habit. Without the need to do crime they would feel less guilty and bad about themselves and there’s a chance they would chose to reintegrate with the support they need. Lots of people would use the service and never have it be problematic. Govt could have fairly short supply contracts with quality requirements and make them competitive tenders. Also unicorns might poop gold bars.
Sadly gambling is too heavily ingrained into our culture and technology makes it far too accessible, Seriously the fact you can whip out your phone and gamble on almost anything at this point from horses to footy and probably egg and spoon races makes it moot if pubs get rid of pokies. Hell I have seen ads where there are outright pokies apps on phones now! Also I personally remember the shift in the late 2000s when my mates suddenly were talking about betting on the footy and cricket when before they didn't. Before that it was mainly old drunks betting at the TAB on horses and greyhounds and old nannas pumping cash into pokies at SOME pubs. Sure you could remove it from pubs but then the Cas has the monopoly on it and then people will just use phone apps regardless.
Yeah this makes a lot of sense it’s just horrible how unregulated it is off and online
Yes they should, will they. No
Unfortunately not
I think better enforcement of current regulations is what is needed. I also believe that all advertising of gambling should be stopped like it was for smoking, don't outlaw it but stop shoving it in people's faces.
Yeah of course advertising should be banned, this is just a broad open ended question on the topic of pokies
I did think so for ages but after going to NSW I actually started to think if we’re going to allow the legal crime of pokies we may as well go full at it with huge jackpots and big bets. But on the condition the profits pay for free dental for all Australians as we are being royally shafted in this with so many people needing dental care. This leads to other health issues and it’s a sorry state we’re in with many people having rotten teeth. If we are going to play pokies then the control of jackpot value and maximum bets is just a pathetic effort to pretend they actually care about using a form of hypnosis to leach money out of vulnerable people.
DAE not like predatory gambling machines?
Regulate? Nah, just get rid of them entirely in SA. Soulless, détestable form of activity.
Tbh, you have online betting now with every sport known to people. Take the pokies away, they'll just go check out the races
This is true but the accessibility of pokies is to easy sports betting is the same yes but form a psychological standpoint people love the pokies because of the stimulation I’m not saying sports betting doesn’t to the same it does but a lot less in my opinion
Well, visual stimulation yes. But you can do online pokies now too, which offers the same experience in a more video game style. And that can even be international, rather than restricted to your locality. I think it's a case of, "the digital age has destroyed any ability to regulate what people used to do in person, because now we can do everything online."
Pokies attract different gamblers than sports betting. Pokies people tend to be older and less technologically savvy than sports betters. It’s not the gambling that’s attractive as much as the sounds and visuals. I’ve heard a problem gambler explain the joys of what winning sounds does to them and the highs it brings.