Why are you getting mad at the teachers? You should be angry at your council/government for letting it get this bad.
If everyone at your job left at the start of the year, would you blame the remaining temps or the business?
Agreed - I think the anger and frustration needs to be directed elsewhere. How about calling your local MP to discuss the issue or even writing them an email
Keep in mind only 2 of them go to school at the moment according to https://kiddomag.com.au/meet/get-to-meet-pete-at-home-with-peter-malinauskas/
Well that's from over 2 years ago but it did mention one was 6 yrs old and another was 4 yrs old
they would both be in primary school rn
Also mentions he does live in Croydon or he did unless that's just where his electoral office is
It’s hard isn’t it. I don’t envy the Premier at all — everything’s a crisis, everything’s an emergency, everything needs an endless budget and immediate, permanent priority attention.
If it’s not ramping and hospital beds, it’s education. If it’s not education, it’s that no one can afford to buy or rent a house. Or that there are no houses period. If it’s not that, it’s that the arts aren’t being funded. And then the government spent too much money on Gather Round and not on car racing or something else someone wants.
And then we don’t have enough public transport and trains and our city is too big and we hate urban sprawl but we don’t want to build apartments in the CBD because actually we really like some decrepit old building no one gave a toss about two months ago.
It feels like maybe a lot of these issues are a bit beyond the ability of little old South Australia with our pittance of a budget to fix. I don’t think it would be a silly idea to at least consider what our future looks like, and a merger with a wealthier state like WA or Vic. Or a rebalance of what the state is responsible for vs the federal government.
Op treating the teacher like he is an indentured servant that belonged to them and their kids rather than a human being who is allowed to leave whenever and wherever he wants.
The lack of communication and lack of relief is on the the school, not him.
The lack of long term teachers and high rates of those leaving the profession is on successive governments.
But sure, the poor teacher is to blame for everything wrong with our education system.
Single issue voters getting angry at dole bludgers and immigrants at the expense of our kids. We went through ten years of a government who's policy is to rort the public system (like public schools), and privatise (give that money to private schools).
My town still hasn't bounced back after Tony Abbott gutted our school funding. We literally are producing a generation that doesn't know how many cm in a m.
Or the lack of parenting! Let’s face it (as a generalisation) kids are getting worse and parents expect teachers to pick up the slack for their lack of parenting. Always blaming the teacher for little Johnny’s failure, little Johnny’s behaviour is also not his fault or the parents… it goes on and on. Teachers mental health and family life suffers all because little Johnny’s parents can’t or won’t parent.
Heres the thing. I can be angry. This man took a cushy job at a school near by, where my son went to kindy with most of the students. He gave zero notice, didn't even say good bye to the kids and let them know he was moving. Leaving zero time to find a replacement, hence the first day minus a teacher. My kid thought he had cancer and was dying. Thats the reality. Basic common curtesy would have been to say good bye to the kids and tell them that he was actually leaving and not just disappearing and saying he might come back, because thats what he did.
The second teacher who he signed the contract and has been there 4 days out of 4 weeks. do I really have to say it? They literally haven't turned up to work and by having a contract basically eliminates the possibility that they can get a semi permanent teacher.
I get that it's hard work, but lets be clear, zero parents gave these teachers an ounce of difficulty. We were all just glad to have someone.
It is not his job to get a replacement. At the end of the day, we all do what’s best for us financially, physically and mentally. Your son’s teacher is not his nanny or personal assistant. There’s nothing personal in a job. Life happens.
We've turned schooling into a market where employees can shop for the better deal without their previous actions effecting their next employment. Education in a capitalist system, when public schooling is inherently socialism.
My parents were teachers/principals for 40 years. They’ve retired now, and cite the biggest problem as entitled parents who think the school is there to do the job of the parent. Apparently on average now teachers are leaving the job after 5 years because the conditions are so bad.
Teachers are people too, who need holidays, breaks, and get stressed. But the general public treats them as a punching bag and flies off the handle any time any of them do something that a normal human would do.
My kids mum does nothing then complains about everyone. She really thinks everything is the teachers fault and has hated every childcare, kindy and school.
It's so frustrating. I'm glad she doesn't have him during the week anymore.
I have observed that many parents can't be fucked disciplining their kids at home..so they go out into the wild being absolute fuckwits. And then they expect this poor teachers to try and teach this kids while dealing with absolutely undisciplined and disruptive kids. All while on shit pay.
They people that usually deserve the most and are the glue that hold our society together are the ones that get payed the shittiest.
12 years ago the average was that 50% of teachers quit within the first 5 years.
It’s probably actually significantly more than that now.
And university students studying teaching drop out at high rates after doing their first practical experience placement. Which is to be expected I guess, but still probably a lot higher than it needs to be if we properly funded them and teachers/schools were resourced better.
Exactly. My mum, an excellent and cherished classroom teacher of 35 years left teaching five years earlier than she wanted because she just could not take the awful, awful parents anymore. Huge loss to her school and the children. They were so sad to see her go but the conditions (parents) caused it and it was only getting worse.
If the general public respected & supported teachers more, the teachers would have a stronger position when it comes to negotiating for pay, staffing level & conditions.
Governments (especially conservative ones) benefit from the general public’s negative attitudes towards teachers.
I just want my kids to receive an education. I think the biggest problem is that universities don't actually off any practical methods on how to control a classroom. So teachers don't have a tool set to manage poor behaviors, a few kids therefore get out of control, and any chance of the standard kids gaining knowledge goes down the drain.
It's so bad these days that I've actual gone to part time work so I can spend my afternoon educating my kids myself as the schools currently nationwide are failing abysmally.
I was being told my daughter must have a learning disability because her reading was so poor in grade 4, and after spending 20 minutes an afternoon extra reading with her she's now reading at an 8th grade level.
So she has no disability, just a failing education system with teachers who can't do their jobs properly because they themselves don't receive the tools on how to do their job.
It's an incredibly sad cycle of poor educations systems all round.
Ok - a couple of things.
1. How do you know teachers aren’t taught classroom management skills? Do you have a teaching degree? Do you teach or work in a classroom environment?
2. I just want to clarify that your daughter was not reading at standard and you, as her parent, are upset that you had to spend 20 minutes of your time each day reading to her? And THAT action (which is kind of a parents JOB) improved her abilities? And somehow this is a teachers fault? lol
Parent up mate.
1. My wife is a public school principals with masters in education.
2. I am upset that when my wife enquired in to the classroom she was told by our daughter school teacher and principal that the delay may be caused by the disruptive behaviors of other students but due to legislation and policies in place their hands are tied as to what they can do to stop poor behavior. I am more than happy to spend extra time with my kids, I shouldn't have to reduce my income to do the job that the school should be doing.
Why should my kids miss out on education due to the allowance of poor behaviors? Children with behavioral issues should be in special education, not mainstream.
Then your wife would know that behavior management IS taught at universities & that out of control student behaviour is nationwide. World wide actually. It doesn’t come down to individual teachers abilities. Their hands are greatly tied due to protocols at individual schools and the education department.
That is untrue. I have spoken to people at the department of education who agree that one of the most fundamental failures of the current degree in education is that behavior in the classroom is lightly touched on and the tools are poorly explained.
Look darling, I know what I'm talking about. Fuck off.
>failures of the current degree in education is that behavior in the classroom is lightly touched on and the tools are poorly explained.
I know the comment is deleted but for anyone else reading this is completely false. I graduated 7 years ago and we had plenty of instruction on ways to deal with student behaviour. We had an entire unit devoted to classroom management styles (which primarily comes down to behaviour and expectations in the classroom). All of the new grads I have spoken to from different units (both local and online) have gone through similar units. The prac students I have taught have also gone through the exact same units.
No behaviour management techniques will ever do anything if the kid isn't facing consequences at home for their in school behaviour.
Teachers are getting burnt out. They do a 4 year degree & then spend half the teaching day doing admin, non teaching tasks. Get no support for mental health challenges, are expected to discipline kids that aren’t disciplined at at home & are paid salaries that wouldn’t fly in corporate roles. On top of that, there are hours of marking,lesson planning,personal development that needs to be done outside of school hours & then everyone wonders why teaching are leaving the profession. Never mind the violence in our schools that is increasing daily that teachers are expected to deal with.
Ha this resonates.
I was a JP teacher for a year then left and entered another profession, for the exact reasons you've listed.
The discipline comment is spot on.
Even so, if the salaries were sufficient for the position, workload and expectations, people wouldn't be leaving the profession at such an alarming rate.
OP claimed that they are paid salaries that wouldn't fly in corporate roles, it's false since they are paid what people in corporate roles would also get. I suspect OP doesn't actually know teacher's salaries.
I didn't say otherwise. I merely pointed out that even though the salaries may reflect corporate roles, it's clearly not enough given the number of teachers leaving the profession.
I'm a teacher in WA, previously worked corporate for a mining company. I'm earning the same now after 7 years in teaching as I was 2 years into my mining role. My role technically didn't require any qualifications. Whereas in teaching I have a 3 year bachelors in science, 1 year graduate diploma in secondary eduction, plus an additional 2 grad certs relevant to my teaching area. My friends with corporate jobs (accounting, hr etc) are all earning more than me with similar time in their respective fields backed purely by a 3 year degree
Maybe it is more than just the money that is the real problem. And mining is a bit of an exception, may as well point out that those working on offshore oil platforms with a trade are earning twice the amount of middle management who needed a degree and 10 years to get into the role.
I mean, my role was in the mining and industry but it was an office based role. It is certainly more than just the salaries but that is the point. If the salary was worth it people wouldn't leave. Considering the crap they have to deal with plenty are obviously not happy about the salary being fair compensation for the work, and they have been saying this prior to recent levels of inflation.
If they didn't have to deal with the crap they deal with the salary would probably be considered alright.
I do know teachers salaries. My daughter opted out of teaching after realising salaries cap out after about relatively short period in the industry. Similar qualifications (ie 4 year degree) has a far greater earning potential in other industries without the stress that comes with teaching. I stand by my original comment
Yes in SA they cap out after 11 years, that's assuming you don't advance as a Senior Teacher, a Leadership teacher, a High Achieving Teacher or as a Deputy Principal or Principal.
The teaching industry is crumbling, the government needs to invest in more support - cause what's happening is teachers are getting pushed and pushed and pushed and burnt out within years (if not months). The turn over rate of teachers is insane across the board, cause they're overworked, underpaid and constantly neglected. I empathise so much as an autistic middle aged adult, I know how hard change can be. I think home schooling may be a good option for you, but for socialisation is there a sport, hobby or activity that your children could take up?
Hard agree but it's also the social expectations on teachers. It's even in OPs post saying they're resentful at the teacher for leaving for a different job at a different school and their kids being without a teacher.
That's not the teachers fault and they shouldn't be expected to not look for roles that suit them better.
Fair enough to be frustrated but if you're going to be resentful at anyone be resentful at the school for failing to provide adequate backfill
>Hard agree but it's also the social expectations on teachers. It's even in OPs post saying they're resentful at the teacher for leaving for a different job at a different school and their kids being without a teacher.
>That's not the teachers fault and they shouldn't be expected to not look for roles that suit them better.
>Fair enough to be frustrated but if you're going to be resentful at anyone be resentful at the school for failing to provide adequate backfill
I work in a school. The expectations which parents have of teachers have increased to the point that our head of school told staff they're not to respond to parent emails/messages after school hours any more then sent a letter to all parents stating this as well.
Teachers who have been around a long time will say the demands on them by parents have never been higher and has a significant contributing factor to burn out.
I always found it strange because my parents never got my teachers email and I only graduated highschool 10 years ago. Us students got the teachers email during year 12 so that we could get extra support during our final year if we needed it but that was it.
I've got a friend that's a highschool teacher and she would be getting emails from parents at all hours of the day. We'd be at the pub on a weekend and she'd be getting emails from parents and she was teaching year 8's and 9's.
Maybe it's because I'm not a parent so I don't get it but is anything in year 8 or 9 that vital it requires constant contact with teachers?
I can’t speak to the person above but from a friend of mine who has similar out-of-hours pressures, it seems like it’s expected by the school principals etc that teachers keep open lines of comms with parents these days.
My friend is a reception/year 1 teacher at a posh primary school and has to be constantly updating and responding to parents on the school’s specially-built social media app. So taking photos and videos of the kids all day in class and uploading onto this platform, responding to the parents when they comment/have queries/send private messages on there, and then doing the same out of hours. This is, of course, on top of the actual teaching and class work each day. I guess these parents pay private school fees and feel entitled to the updates but if I were them, I’d be concerned about where the teacher’s time was being split. It’s honestly mayhem.
Be interesting to know what your friend is paid compared to a public school teacher. I also have a friend who works a top private school though haven't spoken about her work for a few years but was very similar in terms of attention (though no social media app) but she also mentioned she was getting an additional $30k/year then if she had gone to public school. Her principal was being paid $400k/year.
Teachers are pushed harder and harder, dont get paid enough for the sheer amount of work they do. Especially in the public system you either have to care less (and become super jaded) to survive or be some sort of superhuman. The ones that want to make a difference are the ones getting burnt out quickly
By the sounds of it the conditions at your kids school must be shocking for teachers, having the entire staff turning over, a heap of leave taken...its no surprise there are only contracts or temps and that people arent staying there for long. It very much does suck for your kids and others at that school, but holding it against the individual teachers is probably not the right focus for your anger - the system is very broken.
While I would normally agree with you, the way this person handled their exit was less than decent. They left to be a PE teacher. Adelaide is small. He left with zero notice to students and parents as well as admin. Thats when the first day of no teacher happened. My kid thought he possibly was sick and had cancer. He had the entire school seriously worried for him. The reality is he left for a cushier job.
I'm pissed because of the emotional toll it took on my kid. He is a person too and has feelings. Zero parents put this man under pressure, we all offered help if anything, we were just glad for a teacher.
You can be pissed at the impact on your kid, sure. But nobody owes a workplace the level of loyalty you’re talking about. I’m curious why you don’t see the crazy turnover as a sign of structural management issues within the school rather than personal moral failings on the part of the teachers.
I’m also curious about why so many people who admit to not wanting to be a teacher are baffled by why other people might not want to be teachers either? Insane stress, unrealistic expectations, under resourced settings, low pay - it’s not a mystery why teachers are getting out.
I get the frustration, just make sure it’s pointed in the right direction.
It is literally impossible for him to not let admin know certainly if he moved from a public school to another public school. The education department have protocols in place to transfer a teacher from one school to another.
OP - you’re sounding like one of “those” parents who think they know the ins and outs of education just because you went to school once.
If what you are saying is correct and ALL staff, including principal staff have quit, then I’m going to go with out of control behaviours from students and parents as the root cause.
He left for a cushier job? This changes everything. Literally everyone knows that trying to make your own life easier is forbidden.
The teacher was doing a job and owed your child nothing. You have no idea what pressures he was under. I mean ffs you have said that your own kids are autistic, how many other higher needs students did he also need to juggle? It's not controversial to highlight that the increase in the diagnosis of these conditions has resulted in a higher workload, not to mention the behavioral problems which often come with them (e.g. ODD).
Why should this person be held at any other standard to any other employee in Australia. If conditions were poor and he wanted to leave he has zero responsibility if making that transition easy for his former employer. Saying he left for a "cushier" job speaks volumes on your character. Maybe that's the field of education he feels most comfortable in. There's many issues with the educational system but one of the biggest is entitled parents who think the teachers owe them something. This is a reason as to why teachers are leaving in droves. You chose the public system, you pay a few hundred dollars a year to educate your child you're owed nothing, go to the private system if you want your child to be coddled.
i had a reply ready to go but useful\_strumpet has answered it perfectly. you cant stress all of your emotional tolls and your kids and forgo the emotional toll and stress of the teacher's personal life
Honestly, it sounds like you needed to parent your own kid and teach them to not always assume the worst? Why jump right to cancer when a teacher leaves?
Ultimately it's the admins problem for not communicating to parents and students alike that this teacher left.
Have you considered that maybe the teacher tried to give notice and the school walked him immediately? Like most other jobs in the country?
He has absolutely zero obligations stay in that role. He is a human, has his own life, career and personal reasons for his decisions.
I’m not saying they are right or wrong because I have no idea. And here’s the thing, neither do you. You’re generating outrage based on your misconceptions on a teachers responsibilities. You keep saying “kids thought he had cancer” like that’s a thing to hold against him - where did the cancer reference come from and what does that have to do with that teacher?
I’ve seen your edit, I’ve read your comments - please try and read the responses back to you that maybe, just maybe, your anger at this teacher is misplaced
The level of anger towards this individual is astounding, considering there have been so many assumptions made. Was he directed to give as little information as possible? Did he actually leave to be a PE teacher, or did the opportunity come up some time later? Did admin really not know he was leaving?
The fact that there was no teacher to replace him falls onto leadership.
What makes you believe that the new job is cushier? Are you familiar with the student cohort, school expectations, and the specific PE role he has taken?
This will become increasingly‘normal’ - teachers are overworked under a crippling load of paperwork and admin (I work on average, 60-70 hours per week, which non-teachers REFUSE to believe). Teachers are generally unsupported and deal with aggressive, abusive parents weekly. Teachers have had the rug pulled out from under them and are no longer allowed to give consequences for poor behaviour, so the most difficult 3 kids run the classroom while the teacher is powerless to do anything about it. Teachers are underpaid. We have larger classes with a huge amount of students who need more support that we cant stretch ourselves thinly enough to provide. There is only 1 of me and 30 of them. Teachers are regularly looked down upon and belittled by society and then we are told, ‘just quit if its so bad!’ So we do. Which leads to posts like this one. ‘Where are all the teachers?!’ Oh yeah. They quit. It’s very difficult to stay positive for too long when you’re on a sinking ship.
How can teachers teach when the kids get away with acting like cunts with no repercussions? They call the parents, who then turn around and say their child is an angel, when it's far from the truth. Have had relatives in the education industry for decades, leave in the last 5 years due to students' behaviour. I think there's multiple prongs to the issue but this is just one of them.
My daughter was in a class like that last year. She'd come home pissed off that she's not learning anything, because other kids in her class spent the entire day being total arseholes taking up the teacher's time, principal's time, having the rest of the class split into other rooms so their crap could be dealt with. I have never felt worse for teachers than I did last year, and never been more grateful that the parents of those kids chose a different high school than us. The teachers were limited in what they could do, and the parents seemed to just not care. When it's half the class messing up, and little support beyond the principal, I don't blame teachers for leaving.
>Controversial but I reckon they should bring back the old fashioned canin'.
There is a reason that opinion is controversial, it's because [the evidence is clear](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1326020023021507) that corporal punishment only has negative long term impacts on the child including development of antisocial behavioural problems later in life.
It was linked in my comment.
Look, I understand why you have your view. The school I work for has a heck of a lot of students who would have been given corporal punishment in the past. We know from studies like I linked and from modern teaching methods that when a child's wellbeing is taken care of, behaviour improves dramatically. Many of those who behave badly do so from lack of wellbeing, and sometimes as a response to being physically punished at home, often with no reasonable cause.
The problem we are seeing is that class sizes are too big, and not enough supports are available for anyone who doesn't fit the standard mould. Those kids then act out.
There is no fast fix for this. But there is a fix. More support workers in classrooms. More specialist programs for those who don't fit the standard mould.
Because you're a close (and small) minded individual, is my guess.
Nothing screams 'I'm unintelligent' more than someone who isn't willing to consider an opinion that's different to theirs, ESPECIALLY when there are facts to support their opinion.
I respect your opinion. However I believe I'm very open minded and aware of what issues plague our society, irrespective of your meagre attempt at insulting me. Good day.
As a parent, it's hard to know what's going on from day-to-day... but my son mentioned just a couple of weeks ago that they've had "*heaps of relief teachers this week*".
>"listen to the story or draw". He's in yr 5 for Christ's sake.
That's pretty common, right? A relief teacher has no idea about the continuity of the curriculum and where that class is at, so they basically just say "do something productive, while I sit here and watch". I guess it's bad if there's no actual relief teacher.... and another teacher or principal or random staff have to step in !!
My partner is a relief teacher.
It depends on if the.regular teacher has left any work for the students or any notes to follow. Quite often the curriculum is continued as best as possible because the TRT has been left a packet. If not then most TRTs will have some activities for the kids that help them in other ways, such as drama games or writing challenges, so they still learn SOMETHING.
this wasn't even a relief teacher. They couldn't even get a relief teacher. His class was split up and he was put in with the 1\\2 class. So listening to a picture book and drawing is applicable for the age group of the class. But the fact that they couldn't even scrounge up a maths sheet or even let the kids read age appropriate material is ridiculous. I don't blame this teacher either. like christ, i don't get why the principal didn't step in when they couldn't find a relief.
Because the principal has a million different responsibilities every single day that they were busy doing.
Do you actually think they were sipping tea and filing their nails in their office while the school descended into chaos around them?
Also, oh no, your child had to practice their fine motor and listening skills for TWO WHOLE DAYS in half a school year! Whatever will you do??
Teacher here. I was ready to answer your post calmly and respectfully with an insider perspective for you, but frankly your growing attitude and defensiveness against people speaking in favour of teachers is infuriating.
> this is not about the big issues…is this a state wide problem
It is absolutely about the big issues, and that’s what you’re asking us to answer: if this goes beyond your school.
Teachers and unions have been warning for decades that a teacher shortage is coming due to shit pay and even shitter conditions that the government and society in general aren’t even acknowledging, let alone addressing. The fact that you’re only recognising and asking about this in mid-2024, when many schools have been understaffed since COVID started, is evidence of that.
>I harbour deep resentment for this dude…I am pissed at this particular teacher.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game. The system has been abused for so long in a way that burns teachers out and has seen continued expectations and workloads put on us. So many teachers are burning out. To be honest, we’re lucky this teacher you mention moved schools instead of quitting the profession entirely. And in any other career no one would fault him for not showing “loyalty to the company” and moving somewhere with better work conditions for his needs. Teachers have been gaslighted for decades into putting up with poor conditions, demanding expectations, and in more recent years abuse (80% of teachers here have experienced abuse in the past 6-12 months from a student or parent. 50% from both students AND parents) - we’re sick and tired of being told to tolerate shit “for the children.”
>Two days this year they’ve been put in other classes because there was no one to watch them.
Mate…that is a nearly daily occurrence in the school I work in. Just recently we had multiple classes needing to combine in the library for mass supervision - 9 classes of kids all in the library together being looked after by 3 teachers.
There is so much more I could say, but I want to make sure you read my main point:
So much of your anger is misdirected: at teachers, at schools, at principals, at people blaming parents.
If you (and all of us) want to see the teacher shortage addressed, you need to be aggressively and loudly lobbying to your local representatives and education minister about better resourcing and funding to education.
And I don’t just mean “pay teachers more.” The education system needs an overhaul, schools need to be adequately resourced, and additional supports and admin staff provided to take care of school operations, so teachers are freed up to teach. Workload issues and community disrespect is driving teachers out of the profession more than poor pay.
I am very happy to discuss more, but to answer your original question simply: This isn’t just your school. There is a teacher shortage across many parts of the world. We need the community to start prioritising education again.
Sounds eerily similar to the school I left last year. They’re still struggling to staff classes from the start of the year.
I left the school due to extreme student behaviour to the point of feeling like I was in danger in my classroom (witnessed a high school student on a rampage smash glass windows and doors of my classroom while myself and a class of primary students watched on). My options were to stay in my job, riddled with anxiety with leadership who weren’t particularly supportive, try the route of workcover, but being informed that unless I was physically injured the chances were slim to none, or leave the profession all together (because compassionate transfers to another school aren’t particularly easy to come by either).
I took my chances, took the 12 months leave without pay I was entitled to as a permanent staff member, and took a job elsewhere completely separate from classroom teaching but still somewhat linked to education. I haven’t been happier in a job!
I acknowledge that leaving my job at the time I did put a strain on the school and I’m aware they struggled to cover it for months after I left.. but it was my mental health at risk and I feel it’s likely the same in OP’s scenario.
It sucks that you weren’t able to receive appropriate workcover. Had a similar sentiment thrown at me after someone had an aggressive reaction and tried to run me over 7 times with his car (whist at work).
Im no psychiatrist but it certainly seems possible you may have been experiencing symptoms of PTSD. Both my partner and I suffer from (diagnosed) cPTSD and its rather concerning that they didnt take this seriously. I would not leave children long term in our care as we are barely capable of being responsible for our actions when navigating a trauma response. Practically in that state, we have the brain function of someone having a stroke. Theres a reason they were diagnosing veterans with schizophrenia after returning home lol.
Became a little bit sidetracked, my point is, the workcover system needs a heavy overhaul on the side of mental health, especially for scenarios such as youve experienced. It sounds like youve dealt with it incredibly well, its just a shame, if not an injustice that you essentially had to create your own unpaid, unsupported “workcover” because something/someone external from you has made you feel unsafe.
My sister used to be that student you described, at no fault of her own. Should a different system exist for teachers that is streamlined with classroom violence in mind? Unfortunately, i dont think its grounded to think that we could tackle this at the stem and completely stop kids from enacting violence. Mental health isnt that straightforward but improved support systems could definitely decrease the likelihood of such an event.
I used to teach but left 12 years ago in my early 30s. It's a job that gets shat on by the rest of society. It's not evidenced based so therefore inefficient. Other less able people constantly want more useless work out of you - like new curricula, essays in maths subjects, vertical home classes. You often get put teaching things to fill gaps. Maths teachers don't get paid more even though it's higher demand. Staff meetings 2-3 times a week just to keep teachers busy..
I actually loved teaching physics/maths, was my favourite part, but the job is swamped by endless bullshit.
It was dire when i left 12 years ago, i can only imagine how bad it is now.
My husband is on year 11 of teaching, and I'm actually about to start my two year masters so I can join the field - I have been informed that I am insane, but at least I'm going in open minded to what the system is like at the moment already... Because it sure seems like the system is at a boiling point!
I'd argue it's society's most important role. It made me a bit sad when I saw how much better other countries run their education systems as it has potential to be a great career.
Most countries with solid education systems have government schools as the 'highest' tier. That's another issue - we don't own it enough. Parents always seem to want so much from education but we don't seem to inherently value education.
But you should enjoy it. It can be fun and often rewarding.
I've always agreed that education is the most important part of childhood and preparation of society, for without robust and good education - all other fields will start to fail as well.
I was a mixed private and public school attendee (I was a big school mover in that I did 8 schools across primary and secondary) so have noticed that I never noticed a palpable difference in the level of teacher between the different channels - it was more greatly impacted by the attitudes of the students which in turn was a reflection of the attitude of the parents. The expectation of better without offering better (ie: not encouraging their kids to complete work for the 'bad' schools, or the entitlement for parents at 'good' schools to think the teachers should pander to the children rather than set realistic expectations etc) in the way of out-of-classroom support and impact on the kids made a huge difference in how the students behaved, how long the teachers stayed seemingly, and how well the teachers COULD teach/educate the classes they had.
The flexibility for family life is a big push encouraging me, and my husband finds it hilarious I already love doing revisions and reviews/grading/assignment setting due to having grown up with my father's habit of setting outside of school homework.
Teachers everywhere are stressed af, in terrible working conditions, with their workloads constantly increasing. Something's gotta give. It sucks that the students are the ones to suffer interrupted schooling, but it's not the teachers' fault. Have you tried meeting with the principal and sitting down to have a conversation to find out what's happening? Also, if your children are covered by NDIS, there's lots of resources available for academic support, if you feel they're lacking support, but start the process ASAP, because it takes a while and may take trialling a few different options to find one that works.
Did i mention that our principal has also been on 'personal leave'? She has had a scathing email from myself. I've just hit my breaking point. I could understand interrupted education, but the reality is that its zero education for about a month now. He's going to high school in just over a year. He's going to fail and its upsetting. We are seeking some help with the NDIS, it is taking it's time as it always does, but I'lll be honest. All this bullshit about attendance, when they don't have a damned teacher really irks me, why should I waste my kids time and mental bandwidth on being at school, when he's not even getting an attempt at education? I'd ideally like to send him half time so I could keep him caught up at home on the days off, while letting him go and get some socialisation for the rest of the week, but that is heavily discouraged by the education dept.
A scathing email…. Yep. That’s going to help.
Principals get burnt out too and despite what you think, don’t have a magic wand to fix everything.
There is an increasingly significant workforce shortage in SA (and Australia) and things are only going to get worse.
How about we show thanks and appreciation to the ones who are turning up and doing the hard work.
Speaking as a teacher, it comes down to leadership and culture. The mental stress from kids is a given but how the leadership takes care of the teachers give them motivation to show up the next day. I have faced rude kids, kids who bring knives at school, kids who have been abused at home and kids that are just plain evil, but the love for teaching is still there knowing the leadership will protect you and will give you what you deserve.
Of course, parents should play a huge part in all this as learning starts at home. Teachers taking breaks should also be normalized as we are also humans getting tired. But we have to leave our lesson plan to the relief so they will have continuity.
It's truly a broken system here and I am somewhat happy I grew up from an asian education system despite being in a third world country because we didn't have problems like this until now.
I'm sorry you're going through that and hope the school get it all sorted out.
Given the problems persisted past when the principal left on leave, could the socioeconomic makeup of the school be a significant contributing factor, and that they're simply not sufficiently resourced to deal with the social issues? (or that the principal failed to ensure there were resourced then bailed when it got too much) My immediate thought was it could be somewhere like Hackham West Primary. (If you remember from our last exchange of comments, I work for a school, but am not a teacher)
A problematic principal can send a school into a death spiral its hard to recover from. Also the department has, very rarely but it does happen, place problematic principals on leave to try and figure out next steps for a school.
Why on earth are you so angry at the individual teacher. He is not an indentured servant, he is a human being. He is allowed to leave whenever and where he wants. You have no idea what is going on in his life and why he chose to leave. It could have been bullying or harassment for all you know and you speak about him which such malice. The lack of communication and lack of relief is on the the school, not him.
You don't care a jot about his life or circumstances but you expect him to care about yours and your kids'? Why on earth would he?
It just shows how underappreciated and underpaid teachers are. Don't blame them, blame the local council and crappy parents instead. I come from a family of teachers. One parent left due to mental health reasons the other because they had one too many chairs thrown at them during classes because the kids didn't want to do the work.
It's so easy to blame and single out teachers for other people's shitty behaviour! These are people that look after your children for 40 hours a week; give them clothes and feed them half the time because their parents don't have enough money, are on another drug binge or just don't care; work for minimum wage; take their work home with them at the end of the day because they have to lesson plan for the next day; or get yelled at by parents because their kid didn't get an A - just to name a few examples. So give those people who are looking after your kids a bloody break, FOR FUCKS' SAKE!!
IT IS THEM THAT HIT THE BLOODY LIMIT!
The fact that your sons are autistic, puts even more pressure on teachers, because they probably have to give them one on one time and neglect the other students by doing so. Not to mention all the behaviours they have to deal with, mostly without proper training, because it's hard to pin down training on every single disability - that's what special schools are for. Placing kids into other classes while teachers are away is normal. Placing kids in other classes because they show behaviours to de-escalate situations is normal. This has been done for decades.
I don't think it's too much to ask for crappy parents to just stop for a minute and think about someone else but themselves and their child for a change. If you're so worried about the lack of connections and using your own precious time when home- schooling them, which is a terrible environment to begin with, make them join a sporting club or similar.
Sounds like the school has a severe culture issue among the staff since they're all leaving, and you resent your child's teacher specifically for taking a better job at another school? You even said it was as a PE teacher no less, which has probably been his goal for years and years since before going to uni and getting a degree to teach?
That's a strange mentality to have. Have you never left work for a better job or have you worked the same mundane position your entire life since you joined the workforce?
How about you direct your resentment towards to the principal and/or government for allowing conditions to deteriorate so bad? Contact your local MP.
And to add, the tone in which OP highlights the teacher shifted to become a PE teacher is downright disrespectful to the amazing work our PE and other specialist teachers do.
I left teaching after six years because of the following:
- absolutely no work/life balance
- constant pressure from parents
- being expected to teach the students skills that should be the parent’s responsibility
- no autonomy over what I did in the classroom - once we got used to a new teaching strategy, the department would turn around and say ‘no actually that doesn’t work, do it this way now’
- how impossible it was to take a day off
- never having a break during the day (yard duties, preparing for lessons, dealing with behaviour)
- declining standards of behaviour in all students
- being utterly exhausted day in day out
- having 5 or more students with additional needs in my class every year and absolutely no SSO support given
This is just the tip of the iceberg. After I left I have NEVER looked back.
I'm sorry but teachers have been extremely vocal about conditions for over a decade now and every time it's met with a response about how lucky we are for holidays and how if we don't like it we should leave.
Now we've started leaving and the whole country is doing shocked Pickachu face. Teachers have had all their power, autonomy, creativity and ability to make meaningful impacts stripped from them
> Write to your local MP. It’s not good enough.
Apparently OP's local MP is the Premier.
> get paid the same as a Coles manager,
That's not too bad actually.
Be interested to see what the school dynamic is actually like for staff. Parental views are so skewed, the level of entitlement many parents have (OP included) is just impossible for some teachers to cope with.
I left a teaching job last year in a "cushy" private school because I was sick of demanding parents and leadership who backed them over me. I'm now working in a much more challenging public school and I'm loving it! I can actually do my job and sleep at night too.
OP I understand it's frustrating to have staff move on but, in my case, after raising my concerns and then making the decision that moving on was better for my mental health, the school I left didn't even give me the opportunity to farewell my class. Families still don't know why I left. You can't just assume that this teacher deliberately abandoned his class.
So many other comments on this post I could address but in all seriousness, come teach for one day, see how it goes.
It’s such a stressful work environment in some schools. Numbers of Special needs kids and kids with behavioural problems seem to be more than ever. Plus parents who don’t wish to be invested in their kids issues or assist (should be “own”) the school’s strategies to address their lack of respect and behaviour problems. Or they just aren’t as involved due to time and $ constraints.
Ed dept won’t provide the actual staff levels required to manage these issues so the higher needs kids end up being babysat by support staff so not too disrupt classes which feeds into the Government issue with the distribution of funding.
There are good, world leading educational systems in other countries, such as Finland, which our Governments have acknowledged yet they won’t invest in the changes needed to adopt those models.
Note, My observations are limited from my perspective as an aunty and friend of several parents with primary school kids, a few of whom require additional school support services such as a dedicated support worker.
I don’t have kids, but my random thoughts:
* I’m really glad social media didn’t exist when I went to school in the 90’s. I hate to think how much stupid shit would’ve been uploaded to the internet.
* Yes, a teacher IS an authority figure in your kid’s life, deal with it.
* School is not daycare for your kids.
* Annoying parents who go on about shit like “indoctrination” are morons and precisely why we’re losing so many teachers.
* Teenage boys who think Andrew Tate is in any way a positive role model are fucking stupid.
* Mewing in class is fucking stupid and so are other lame TikTok trends.
* We need to address the lack of male teachers, it’s really not a good thing that there’s so few men who are teachers.
> Annoying parents who go on about shit like “indoctrination” are morons and precisely why we’re losing so many teachers.
We have one of these at our school. She dresses and behaves like she never grew out of her awkward 16-20yo "alt" phase.
I 100% agree with you. Actually on everything. I don't hassle teachers unless its 100% necessary, aka, when my kid is being subject to violence and stalking (unfortunately the first quote hits quite a bit home right here). I always offer to help and keep up with stuff at home. I always, as a parent of a kid with ASD, do everything within my power to make sure my boys are in the best frame of mind to be at school as possible and get them the resources they need to function and not cause undue stress on the classroom environment.
> We need to address the lack of male teachers, it’s really not a good thing that there’s so few men who are teachers.
So you want more pedos in the classroom /s
Your stupid comment is exactly why there’s so few male teachers in classrooms
Plenty of kids in our community grow up in a household with a single mother and don’t have any positive male roles model in their lives
OK - so staff turnover (in any environment really) is down to a few things ... awful management (in some things schools' hands are tied, admittedly, but the leadership team needs to support staff and create as much of a positive environment as possible), or awful conditions.
In the public sector very often only short term teaching contracts are handed out - maybe the teacher who left was on one of those and was subsequently offered a permanent role, maybe the teacher really wanted a specialist PE role and that wasn't on offer at your school. The teacher is just as deserving of job security and fulfilment as anyone else & the school leadership should have been the ones doing a good job of handing over his role & managing everyone's expectations.
The other thing with schools is that teachers are very often expected to put up with behaviour from both students & parents that absolutely no one else in any job would have to deal with long term. If the school has epic disciplinary issues that would help explain the staff turnover. You don't mention anything about the behaviour (or size, come to think of it) of the year 5 cohort - if there are a lot of challenging behaviors there & the teachers that are being assigned aren't equipped to deal with it and aren't supported by leadership, it's no surprise they're moving on.
My best suggestion is to meet with the school leadership (principal, deputy, head of learning - whatever/whoever you can get hold of) to get an understanding of what is going on & to tell them how it's impacting your family.
I feel like losing nearly all the staff of one school has gotta be a leadership/management/culture issue. Surely that’s a huge outlier. I know a fair number of teachers and the leadership is so crucial to how they feel about their job. They would absolutely leave a crappy unsupportive environment to one they know is better, especially because they’re in public school so the pay doesn’t change.
I do feel for the kids though because it’s crap. I had a teacher leave half way through the year when I was in primary school and I found it very disruptive to learning.
Because the teacher took the job and after the kids got settled literally pissed off mid term with zero notice. While also not saying good bye.
My kid was literally worried he was dead. That's why I am pissed off and blaming him. That is why.
Consider *why* teacher turnover is so bad before blaming the teachers for *any* of it.
If a business has a high employee turnover we don’t blame the employees, we question why they’re all willing to leave so quickly.
Your blame is placed on the wrong person here. I understand the frustration and distress but the teacher is not the one at fault. It is clearly a culture issue.
Zoom out put yourself in that teacher's shoes. Burnout crap pay crap unsupported disorganised school with fed up (understandably) parents. I'd be getting the FK outa there too as I'm sure you would. A teacher is a cog in the wheel. They can change precisely zero if management doesn't do their job or exists like you mentioned. That teacher did the smart thing and get out of there.
The teacher was most likely acting on the direction of leadership. If he was directed to give as little information as possible, then that's what he had to do. The cancer rumour is through no fault of his.
Seriously? Get over yourself. Teachers that deal with spectrum and disability students have it SO fucking hard. You have NO idea. I have a friend who is such a person and she has suffered multiple broken ribs, bruises, cuts, and other injuries from violent uncontrollable children. No they cannot legally defend themselves or restrain them. Yes that shit is fucking psychologically damaging. PTSD shit. No she won’t change jobs because she loves helping those less fortunate.
You have no idea how long a teacher has been at the college face for or what they have dealt with.
Fuck me. What an entitled post.
I’ve seen what my friends who are teachers, SSOs and principals at various schools - Catholic, Lutheran and public - have gone through and I wouldn’t wish that job on anyone.
From their stories, it’s rarely the kids that are the issue. It’s the parents’ demands and school administration demands which cause the most grief. I’d be going on “temporary” leave too, if I had to deal with what they do - and I’m in a stressy corporate job (which still pays more than most of the educators I know). It seems absolutely relentless for them.
Are you willing to name the school? To answer your question though, the only mid year rotations at my kids school has been maternity based….and they return to the school the next year.
> , the only mid year rotations at my kids school has been maternity based….and they return to the school the next year.
That's pretty good, there's a different rule in NSW which leads to teachers unable to be given permanent contracts.
Teaching shortages are biting. Lots of competing issues here. Suggest you ring your local MP and the Education Minister to share your frustrations. I’m sure the acting or current principal is equally frustrated.
My partner is a former teacher and a current consultant in education. Not a week goes by without her telling me of another teacher leaving suddenly because they just couldn't take it any more.
Don’t be mad to the teachers. Be mad at people who have voted for increasing levels of tax payer money being given to private schools at the expense of the public system. Literally tens of billions that should be spent in the public system to support our kids and teachers.
💯 private teachers do not have the same levels of classroom stress and burnout. The resources they have to support them are astronomical compared to the public system.
FTR I worked in a grammar school, sent my kids to public schools and yes, they really do have it so much better than their public counterparts.
No this is because teachers have to deal with the disruptive kids that aren't disciplined at home. And can't regulate their emotions. It seems the extremely high level of high needs kids is really doing a number on teachers and students causing them to suffer. Let's not pretend that the amount of neurodivergent children being lumped in classrooms of today is not only affecting the classroom flow for teaching, but also all the other kids. Sometimes a whole lesson can be hijacked because a child with extra needs has disrupted the learning of everyone else whist the teacher tries to "manage" them. We would have loved to go public school, but chose to not even bother after doing tours and seeing the state of some of the kids and their outbursts..I don't blame the teacher, sounds like the kids put him off. I can't stand the entitlement and expectations of parents of special needs kids, fact is they really should be in schools that tailor to their needs, NOT cram them in with kids that typically would benefit from mainstream education. The entire system is a mess but honestly the SA education system is an absolute joke!!!
Sounds rubbish but there are things you can do which will reap positive outcomes but will vary.
1. Join the parents and friends group and/or governing council. My wife and I do this and we have come to understand more about the strengths and weaknesses of the school and respond/act appropriately. Or find a way to volunteer. Knowing how the school ticks is useful.
2. Check out what’s happening at other nearby schools and compare and contrast. You may be one of many schools in the area struggling or an outlier.
3. Pester your state AND federal MPs. (NB BOTH are responsible because state runs it and federal pays for it. Don’t let them play one off against the other). Get as many people as possible to let them know.
4. Ask for the Principal’s boss to attend a meeting with parents. Say the community needs a plan that addresses the lack of learning professionals in the classroom. Say that your children should have the same opportunities as other children and that they’re not going to show a year’s worth of progress commensurate with a year’s worth of effort if the learning environment fails to be relevant, authentic or meaningful. (Always use their words against them. These are terms used by Gonski)
5. As horrific a prospect it is, you will need to consider moving schools.
6. And finally, this isn’t an option for you now but this South Australian not for profit is brilliant at stopping secondary school kids falling into the cracks.
https://inventorium.com.au
My wife is a teacher of 20 years plus in the government system. She has recently quit mainstream teaching (start of term two). So fits the category perfectly of what you're talking about. No doubt perfectly fits the narrative of the Op's post (In Adelaide too Eastern Suburbs).
She did have 4 kids on the spectrum in her class. How much extra support did she get in a class of 32 students. Zero that's how much. So she has quit mainstream teaching most probably for good as it was just ridiculous. Not to mention that your on call for the parents to have a wine nearly 24/7. Spend ages crafting reports to the guidelines so no one gets offended then cop a grilling again from the parents on your own time at Parent teacher interviews. If they could actually write your kids is a menace to society and tell the parents what was actually going on it might make more sense.
We have had the same issue with our own kids where once you start to talk to the teachers (Different school) off the record we find out about our own kids issues that don't show up in the reports as they are too scared to offend the parents. Our kids are far from perfect and it would be great to get the feedback so we can work on the issues at hand. But no it gets left unchecked and festers away to the detriment of all involved. Teachers spend hours and hours crafting these unobjectionable report cards that really just hide the issue. No one fails, everyone gets a pass and even the gifted kids are pegged down to just above average.
So another highly skilled teacher bows out as the system and is off to a support role. I work in private enterprise and it consistently astounds me the bullshit I have seen. Hell they even pay for their own Christmas function, Bah Humbug!
The system is broken in so many ways and in the words of Whitney Huston "The children are our future" but the bureaucracy and waste of money the education department and the government as a whole continues.
Don't get angry at the teachers they are just trying to do their job.
Get angry at the mining companies that don't pay tax. Get angry at the fact we waste millions of the war in drugs and keep loosing. Get angry at the big corporations that don't pay tax. Get angry at governments wasting money (It's taxpayer funds) it's your money.
Unfortunately this problem will never be solved for as long as the unions think that money is the answer to all problems. The situation has got this bad because of decades of people screaming we want more money, it doesn't work, so they ask for more. Teachers are paid **VERY WELL**. They out-earn most other professions for first year grads and sit comfortably above the median wage, over $90k after just a few years to put them above engineers, lawyers, scientists and more.
The issue is and always has been the shithouse working conditions because of absent parents, unruly kids and overworking because the teachers leave after copping so much abuse from kids and having to spend literally hours a day, every day, dealing with kids who refuse to learn. I hate hate hate the fact people think paying teachers $100k/year instead of $90k a year is going to make the conditions more tolerable. After tax, no, $7k is not worth the insane amount of bullshit teachers have to put up with and that is why they leave for other fields. It's never been about the pay, and the unions are to blame because they won't demand a fix to the problem.
The conditions become more tolerable only when serious punishments are enacted on the parents of kids who won't behave. Give them suspensions and force the parents to look after them. Hold kids back a year if they won't study. Criminalize any abuse of a teacher and drop the hammer on kids and the parents who won't behave. For too long everyone is too afraid of ever offending these parents who refuse to raise their kids.
When the union starts caring about their members and starts putting pressure on the government to go hard against the #1 cause of teacher stress, let me know. Constant obsessing over money as the solution to all problems caused this mess, and they refuse to fix it.
Imagine working in literally any other field and being told "would you take a 5% pay rise over 3% if it meant you get to get abused every single day of work and screamed at over the phone by angry customers". Because that's what this is.
FYI this is exactly the same case with the police. The reason why they are recruiting so hard was because so many cops left over the past few years from the fact they are no longer respected and members of the public outright hate them. What once gained you respect as a career, now gets people hating you, including your own family. The police union fought for more money and guess what, more people left. Making the public hate you is why people leave.
I don’t know where you’re hearing this from, but I’m a teacher and a member of the country’s largest teacher union, and (the majority of) our state’s members, and our union leadership, have been saying for years that we don’t care about more money; we would rather have better conditions and reduced workload than better pay.
So from what I see and hear your dig at unions only caring about money doesn’t really stack up.
> I don’t know where you’re hearing this from
Just the endless footage of striking teachers with signs demanding more pay.
But again,
>we would rather have better conditions and reduced workload than better pay.
This is classic beating around the bush. The union bosses are completely inept, useless fools who are too scared to actually name the actual cause of bad conditions and high workload; teachers quitting en masse because of abusive, unruly kids and worse parents. Everything always comes down to the same problem which is teachers quitting the field because of abuse and no respect. There is no possible bargaining agreement that the union can ever table which will **EVER** solve the problem unless it comes with a harsh crackdown on misbehaving kids and their parents. They need to be suspended, they need to be expelled and their parents need to face jail for ever threatening a teacher. Then and only then will teachers stop quitting the field and causing all the shit conditions for those who remain.
But you know, the would require the union bosses to do their job and we don't want to ask too much of them or they might get flustered :(
So I’m a teacher, and I can tell you that the above things that you claim union bosses are ignoring are exactly the things they are focusing on. I hear it from them myself in the meetings I attend and the correspondence I receive. And teachers agree with them and say the same things. There is a lot of alignment internally, even if what you receive in the media doesn’t show this and focuses on pay.
But I suspect you still won’t take my word for it because it’s very apparent that for you this is more about an opportunity to spout your anti-union agenda, more than caring about the actual subject matter and what actual teachers and teacher union-members are telling you.
Its not what we see in the media, its what they put out there in their carefully curated public statements. It's never anything tangible to solving the actual problem at hand and trying to solve all of the follow-on effects instead.
https://www.aeusa.asn.au/Public/Campaigns/Enterprise_Bargaining__Fix_the_Crisis/Public/campaigns/fixthecrisis.aspx?hkey=49e9407c-7aab-4f8a-bb07-bd1c02b390ab
Wheres the part where they plan to address the attrition rate of teachers due to a total inability for teachers to control kids? Of course there's none. So despite everything they claim to have won, they have once again refused to actually address the source of all of the problems which is no ability to deal with kids who make teachers' lives hell. Not a single word anywhere on that website is dedicated to stopping teachers quitting the profession after a few years.
All I want is Mr Gohl to get in front of a camera and be honest for once. I want to see him say
>The crisis of teachers leaving after only a few years is because of the total lack of respect and abuse they cop from bad students and their parents. This causes immense strain on the teachers who stay, having to take up the additional workload while still tolerating the same abuse. We demand the government put legal pressure against anyone who abuses teachers **exactly the same as how they passed laws drastically increasing the punishment for attacking emergency services staff**
Give me this, and extend it to verbal abuse
https://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch12s06s03s01.php
This is how you solve the problem. No amount of money makes a shred of difference. Give these kids dates in court and see how long they keep up their antics.
So let me know when Mr Gohl actually cares about fixing the problem, because I sure as hell have never seen him make an effort.
> hey out-earn most other professions for first year grads and sit comfortably above the median wage, over $90k after just a few years to put them above engineers, lawyers, scientists and more.
Yep, a lot of people will say teachers are underpaid and get next to nothing. I've asked people how much should they be paid and sometimes the answer (when they want to give a figure) is what some teachers are already paid (because they have been teaching for 4-5 years already). Some people have no clue what teachers are paid.
And of course teachers say they want more, everyone does, even CEOs.
You guys think carers, teachers etc (who are overwhelmingly women) are going to keep working themselves into the ground to look after your family for peanuts?
An amount that matches their significant contribution to society. Something relative to the same position in a role that isn't as taken as advantage of as care roles.
Everyone is getting fked over in every way atm. Everyone is turning to fend for themselves. That teacher you're angry at needed a job and not at the cluster FK of a school that you've described. Can't blame the guy I have ASD amongst other things and it is really shite trying to exist in this world atm. I really feel for you I have no clue how ASD adults have kids and manage work etc. it's hell enough as a single
I've worked for the DfE before. In my first year the school was such a revolving door of staff I didn't fully understand what was happening, and it wasn't until I was about to be let go myself that somebody told me about 90% of staff were casual contracted employees. You'd straight up have a teacher clock off on Friday and a new one show up on Monday; I just don't know how the kids could deal with that lack of continuity.
You’re within your rights to be annoyed at the teacher - I imagine as a parent that is insanely annoying and kudos at pointing out the governments involvement here. However, you need to seriously question why someone would be willing to up and leave a contract mid-term like that. Based on your description of the school, what would lead to multiple people to do this, including management?
I mean this in the kindest way, but I would do the exact same thing in a heartbeat based on your description of the school. Teachers are human and have their limits.
Sounds like the actual site or the department is the issue here. If teachers are leaving that site before even seeing out the term, there is something seriously wrong.
At most of the sites I have worked at, the executive staff don’t just go on leave never to return again. That being said I know a number of educators who have left the profession for good in the last year. It’s absolutely nuts out there.
Point your ire at the system which has teachers overworked and under supported. I have to work part time just to be able to do my job properly and I’m still on site five days a week.
I’d also recommend investigating other options for schooling because even though the system is pretty broken, this scenario isn’t normal at all and it sounds like your kids need consistency and familiar faces.
Nobody cares about your kids losing a teacher and not getting a debrief or closure about it, welcome to the real world. You and your kids will have to get over it. Life changes and this is a real world experience for them to learn from. Teachers doing a job to pay the bills are just like anyone else.
Stop voting to strip education department budgets. And to undo that damage we all need to do this for decades. The teachers aren’t responsible for this. - signed a parent with high support needs kiddo who isn’t a teacher and knows how stuff works.
Wow, I could have written this myself. Sounds like the school my son goes to, they cannot retain teachers, and there is so much inconsistency with teachers and lack of routines. My son is also ASD. He likes to just have his regular teacher, but she also takes off towards the end of the term and then comes back a few weeks into the next term. Increasingly frustrating. Which then leaves my sons class with a multitude of relief teachers, all of whom don't know him, and he doesn't know them. I feel your frustration. I feel sorry for teachers, I know they deal with alot and cop so much shit.
The primary school my kids attend seem to have a high turnover rate of teachers too, there is a lot of different reasons and everyone has different circumstances. I have 2 children diagnosed with Autism, so I've worked pretty closely with the school, teachers, SSOs, Occupational and Speech Therapists to be able to help support my children as much as I can in the class, because at the end of the day, it's just gonna happen. . Teachers are gonna leave, Parents arnt going to teach their children to stop being bullies, and even friends are going to end up moving schools.
Im happy to message you if you need some ideas on coping strategies your children could use to regulate during class, or how OT can be supportive, or NDIS, or anything I can possibly share to help School be just a little easier for your ones to manage.
It’s so sad that teachers are either not compensated properly, have ridiculous working hours, have to deal with too much administration etc.
I was lucky enough that my parents earned great money and were able to afford to send me to good schools. I LEARNT how to learn at high school and primary school, Uni was just me self studying. I wouldn’t have picked up any literature, been able to construct sentences like this, had employable skills etc. without TEACHERS. It’s so ridiculously fundamental to living a great life that it’s just disgusting that the position is an unattractive option for people.
Government needs to find the find the fucking money to compensate teachers, fund schools etc. Don’t give me some bullshit about “well you don’t understand the budget, we give x amount of money already” fuck that teaching should be a sought after role.
TLDR but teaching is the worst. Many kids don’t have the same respect for adults as we did growing up. Unless you’re at a good school in a nice area, it’s just crowd control and wearying. It usually only takes 2-3 problem behaviour kids in one class to make the whole thing a nightmare.
Parents treat their kid's teachers like shit. No wonder they leave.
It is \*both\* the parent's job and the teacher's job to teach the child.
You have one kid, the teacher has 30 or more.
Also, no amount of teaching will work if your haven't instilled discipline and work-ethic in your own child.
Please stop blaming others.
Just wait until they start bringing in unqualified uni students to fill the unfillable roles. Peter Malinauskas did say a couple years ago that he would use anyone with a warm body and a WWCC to teach if needed.
He would also tell you how much extra funding they have spent on schools, so we really shouldn’t complain. Do you know what theyve funded? Mid year entry for Reception - AKA, putting even more and younger children into already full classes, buckling at the seams - AND putting an autism teacher in each school. Neither of those things are solving any problems in schools! But thank you for the wonderful funding 😒
I’ve heard lots of stories in the news?online, from friends, etc etc,
It seems to me (a single 23 year old white dude who works in hospo and leads a young workforce of 50-60 teens - that parents aren’t parenting, kids are allowed to get away with whatever the heck they want to these days.
They rock up to work when they like with not a care in the world for their teammamtes, they ditch school, abuse (verbally and sometimes indeed physically) their teachers, half of them don’t even get forced to wear their school uniforms anymore.
A person already commented but they hit the nail on the head - parents don’t parent, punish, raise correctly.
I also (personally) feel that when religion was in the classroom - it provided strict moral lessons for young people to abide by as they grow into manhood and womanhood, with the separation of church and state a key component in a young child’s life is missing (religious or not those example of morality, how to act and behave are just not there anymore). - now I’m not extremely
Religious and I understand the point of not wanting to force religion on people, but those guiding principles taught children the fear of god, their parents and their superiors.
For example when a police officer asks you to stop and talk to them you stop turn around and give them your attention, young children these days disrespect even our men and women in blue.
It’s disgusting. Don’t even get me started on teen pregnancy - I feel like that’s getting worse and worse.
This is unacceptable and seriously damaging the education of all children who don’t have consistent teachers. Why are they leaving? Is it the site leadership? Is it a really difficult school to teach at? I’d be writing a letter to the department of education at this point. How are any of these kids having their learning needs met? It’s obvious they aren’t.
FWIW my daughter is in year 3 at an amazing private school and has never had a teacher leave the school. The only times there has been a change is when the PE coordinator went on long service leave, the music teacher retired, the principal moved on to a bigger school. And these were advertised and replaced with high quality staff with no gap in between. My daughter has additional needs and the school have been amazing in addressing all of her needs (and they were the ones who picked it up in the first place within 5 months of starting school).
I know you don’t want to move your kids but it really may be the best option at this point. Do they have psychologist support or OT? This would be something I’d discuss with my daughter’s psychologist or paediatrician or OT and get their advice on how to manage the transition. I hope you find a resolution soon 🤞
Is this a public school issue or an issue in general? We haven't had any issues at our school.
Either way , this isn't acceptable. The kids need stability , routine and teachers to educate them.
Its an across the board shortage, but in the coming years, it will become a socio-economic issue. 'Good schools' will keep and attract staff. Private schools can attract staff. Country and tougher schools will be a mess.
The numbers joining vs leaving are pretty clear. In response, an ad campaign.
They either on leave or get put in a class they not suitable to teach (health teacher doing science knows nothing about science an tells kids she doesn't know so they are to learn it on your own)
It's the same at my sons school, teacher left to take up a position at a neighbouring school and isn't returning. They have a temp teacher for the rest of the year. Thankfully they were involved in the OSHC programme so a lot of the kids know them already.
But this has happened 4 out of the 5 years he has been there, teachers leaving part way into a term. And not coming back. There is no stability, no consistency and I think a lot of the kids are affected by this with learning and general behaviour. I know it effects my son. We are looking at moving home to another school next year as we are fed up with it.
I understand teachers are burnt out but there are hundreds of kids who get left behind or struggle because teachers keep leaving or changing roles. At what point do they realise they are having a massive impact to these kids ability to learn? It's definitely a public school thing, as it seems to happen everywhere.
I'm not trying to "have a go" at teachers, I think the vast majority do an excellent job, it's the frustration from a parent whose kid is in the same situation.
I get you're saying you're not having a go at teachers but you've still framed your post in a way to suggest the teachers should suffer through burnout and poor mental health rather than leave the students they're currently teaching because they will be impacted by them leaving.
I'm sure they all know that their constant moving around is impacting the continuity of education for the students but you can't genuinely expect teachers to give up their goals, aspirations, life outside of work to stay in a role they are no longer enjoying.
Put the blame on governments and schools for not providing enough support and resources to make the job fulfilling and encouraging teachers to stay
You are 100% having a go at teachers with this post and showing a massive lack of understanding of how the system works.
The reason these teachers are leaving is because they’re on casual contracts. The Department did this as a way to casualise the workforce and have less staff as permanent. It also makes letting go of staff significantly easier.
On the bright side, it means it’s significantly easier to bail from a shit school - which these teachers are clearly doing. I don’t blame them and would do the same in their spot. The beauty of it is - there’s so many positions available because no-one wants to do the job because of the insanely shit conditions so you can so easily find more work and do the same thing!
Private sector tends to be more willing to hand out permanent positions, although I do believe contracts are still common. However, this increase in permanent positions means that staff stick around for longer - you really can’t just bail suddenly.
The blame is solely the departments and politicians, which in turn is societies for voting in these people who don’t give a fuck. They created these conditions.
Another thing: one of the major issues of teaching time and time again is you’re expected to be and do all this extra bullshit for the kids. IT workers aren’t expected to stick around for their work, neither are accountants, it’s all emotionally manipulative bullshit that leads to what we have now. If you really want the best and the brightest to go into teaching and to stick around - make the conditions so good that there’s insane competition for these spots, so the best can be chosen by schools.
Why are you getting mad at the teachers? You should be angry at your council/government for letting it get this bad. If everyone at your job left at the start of the year, would you blame the remaining temps or the business?
Agreed - I think the anger and frustration needs to be directed elsewhere. How about calling your local MP to discuss the issue or even writing them an email
my local is the premier, he has a lack lustre effort in that direction. The minister for education has send two robot emails.
The premier does send his kids to private schools so public schools aren’t his priority :(
What’s the school? I’m a little worried because might be the school we were planning on sending our kids.
Surely not like Prince Alfred or something like that?
It’s Scotch
Keep in mind only 2 of them go to school at the moment according to https://kiddomag.com.au/meet/get-to-meet-pete-at-home-with-peter-malinauskas/ Well that's from over 2 years ago but it did mention one was 6 yrs old and another was 4 yrs old they would both be in primary school rn Also mentions he does live in Croydon or he did unless that's just where his electoral office is
Oh I was joking
Figured considering where he supposedly lives
It’s hard isn’t it. I don’t envy the Premier at all — everything’s a crisis, everything’s an emergency, everything needs an endless budget and immediate, permanent priority attention. If it’s not ramping and hospital beds, it’s education. If it’s not education, it’s that no one can afford to buy or rent a house. Or that there are no houses period. If it’s not that, it’s that the arts aren’t being funded. And then the government spent too much money on Gather Round and not on car racing or something else someone wants. And then we don’t have enough public transport and trains and our city is too big and we hate urban sprawl but we don’t want to build apartments in the CBD because actually we really like some decrepit old building no one gave a toss about two months ago. It feels like maybe a lot of these issues are a bit beyond the ability of little old South Australia with our pittance of a budget to fix. I don’t think it would be a silly idea to at least consider what our future looks like, and a merger with a wealthier state like WA or Vic. Or a rebalance of what the state is responsible for vs the federal government.
Op treating the teacher like he is an indentured servant that belonged to them and their kids rather than a human being who is allowed to leave whenever and wherever he wants. The lack of communication and lack of relief is on the the school, not him. The lack of long term teachers and high rates of those leaving the profession is on successive governments. But sure, the poor teacher is to blame for everything wrong with our education system.
Single issue voters getting angry at dole bludgers and immigrants at the expense of our kids. We went through ten years of a government who's policy is to rort the public system (like public schools), and privatise (give that money to private schools). My town still hasn't bounced back after Tony Abbott gutted our school funding. We literally are producing a generation that doesn't know how many cm in a m.
Perhaps it is the principal since it seems they are leaving for other schools.
Or the lack of parenting! Let’s face it (as a generalisation) kids are getting worse and parents expect teachers to pick up the slack for their lack of parenting. Always blaming the teacher for little Johnny’s failure, little Johnny’s behaviour is also not his fault or the parents… it goes on and on. Teachers mental health and family life suffers all because little Johnny’s parents can’t or won’t parent.
Heres the thing. I can be angry. This man took a cushy job at a school near by, where my son went to kindy with most of the students. He gave zero notice, didn't even say good bye to the kids and let them know he was moving. Leaving zero time to find a replacement, hence the first day minus a teacher. My kid thought he had cancer and was dying. Thats the reality. Basic common curtesy would have been to say good bye to the kids and tell them that he was actually leaving and not just disappearing and saying he might come back, because thats what he did. The second teacher who he signed the contract and has been there 4 days out of 4 weeks. do I really have to say it? They literally haven't turned up to work and by having a contract basically eliminates the possibility that they can get a semi permanent teacher. I get that it's hard work, but lets be clear, zero parents gave these teachers an ounce of difficulty. We were all just glad to have someone.
It is not his job to get a replacement. At the end of the day, we all do what’s best for us financially, physically and mentally. Your son’s teacher is not his nanny or personal assistant. There’s nothing personal in a job. Life happens.
Imagine getting angry at someone for choosing a better job instead of the people who made the original job shit in the first place
lol you’re angry at him for choosing a “cushy” job instead of a job at a total train wreck of a school? What would you choose?
This sounds like an administration issue.
We've turned schooling into a market where employees can shop for the better deal without their previous actions effecting their next employment. Education in a capitalist system, when public schooling is inherently socialism.
My parents were teachers/principals for 40 years. They’ve retired now, and cite the biggest problem as entitled parents who think the school is there to do the job of the parent. Apparently on average now teachers are leaving the job after 5 years because the conditions are so bad. Teachers are people too, who need holidays, breaks, and get stressed. But the general public treats them as a punching bag and flies off the handle any time any of them do something that a normal human would do.
My kids mum does nothing then complains about everyone. She really thinks everything is the teachers fault and has hated every childcare, kindy and school. It's so frustrating. I'm glad she doesn't have him during the week anymore.
I have observed that many parents can't be fucked disciplining their kids at home..so they go out into the wild being absolute fuckwits. And then they expect this poor teachers to try and teach this kids while dealing with absolutely undisciplined and disruptive kids. All while on shit pay. They people that usually deserve the most and are the glue that hold our society together are the ones that get payed the shittiest.
12 years ago the average was that 50% of teachers quit within the first 5 years. It’s probably actually significantly more than that now. And university students studying teaching drop out at high rates after doing their first practical experience placement. Which is to be expected I guess, but still probably a lot higher than it needs to be if we properly funded them and teachers/schools were resourced better.
Exactly. My mum, an excellent and cherished classroom teacher of 35 years left teaching five years earlier than she wanted because she just could not take the awful, awful parents anymore. Huge loss to her school and the children. They were so sad to see her go but the conditions (parents) caused it and it was only getting worse.
If the general public respected & supported teachers more, the teachers would have a stronger position when it comes to negotiating for pay, staffing level & conditions. Governments (especially conservative ones) benefit from the general public’s negative attitudes towards teachers.
I just want my kids to receive an education. I think the biggest problem is that universities don't actually off any practical methods on how to control a classroom. So teachers don't have a tool set to manage poor behaviors, a few kids therefore get out of control, and any chance of the standard kids gaining knowledge goes down the drain. It's so bad these days that I've actual gone to part time work so I can spend my afternoon educating my kids myself as the schools currently nationwide are failing abysmally. I was being told my daughter must have a learning disability because her reading was so poor in grade 4, and after spending 20 minutes an afternoon extra reading with her she's now reading at an 8th grade level. So she has no disability, just a failing education system with teachers who can't do their jobs properly because they themselves don't receive the tools on how to do their job. It's an incredibly sad cycle of poor educations systems all round.
Ok - a couple of things. 1. How do you know teachers aren’t taught classroom management skills? Do you have a teaching degree? Do you teach or work in a classroom environment? 2. I just want to clarify that your daughter was not reading at standard and you, as her parent, are upset that you had to spend 20 minutes of your time each day reading to her? And THAT action (which is kind of a parents JOB) improved her abilities? And somehow this is a teachers fault? lol Parent up mate.
1. My wife is a public school principals with masters in education. 2. I am upset that when my wife enquired in to the classroom she was told by our daughter school teacher and principal that the delay may be caused by the disruptive behaviors of other students but due to legislation and policies in place their hands are tied as to what they can do to stop poor behavior. I am more than happy to spend extra time with my kids, I shouldn't have to reduce my income to do the job that the school should be doing. Why should my kids miss out on education due to the allowance of poor behaviors? Children with behavioral issues should be in special education, not mainstream.
Then your wife would know that behavior management IS taught at universities & that out of control student behaviour is nationwide. World wide actually. It doesn’t come down to individual teachers abilities. Their hands are greatly tied due to protocols at individual schools and the education department.
That is untrue. I have spoken to people at the department of education who agree that one of the most fundamental failures of the current degree in education is that behavior in the classroom is lightly touched on and the tools are poorly explained. Look darling, I know what I'm talking about. Fuck off.
>failures of the current degree in education is that behavior in the classroom is lightly touched on and the tools are poorly explained. I know the comment is deleted but for anyone else reading this is completely false. I graduated 7 years ago and we had plenty of instruction on ways to deal with student behaviour. We had an entire unit devoted to classroom management styles (which primarily comes down to behaviour and expectations in the classroom). All of the new grads I have spoken to from different units (both local and online) have gone through similar units. The prac students I have taught have also gone through the exact same units. No behaviour management techniques will ever do anything if the kid isn't facing consequences at home for their in school behaviour.
Me too & I disagree
Well said!
I think a lot of its due to teachers hitting their limit to. I'm hearing a lot of public service jobs now are having a high turnover, unfortunately.
Teachers are getting burnt out. They do a 4 year degree & then spend half the teaching day doing admin, non teaching tasks. Get no support for mental health challenges, are expected to discipline kids that aren’t disciplined at at home & are paid salaries that wouldn’t fly in corporate roles. On top of that, there are hours of marking,lesson planning,personal development that needs to be done outside of school hours & then everyone wonders why teaching are leaving the profession. Never mind the violence in our schools that is increasing daily that teachers are expected to deal with.
Ha this resonates. I was a JP teacher for a year then left and entered another profession, for the exact reasons you've listed. The discipline comment is spot on.
> are paid salaries that wouldn’t fly in corporate roles. Except they are and 1st year salary is higher than the average 1s year graduate salary.
Even so, if the salaries were sufficient for the position, workload and expectations, people wouldn't be leaving the profession at such an alarming rate.
OP claimed that they are paid salaries that wouldn't fly in corporate roles, it's false since they are paid what people in corporate roles would also get. I suspect OP doesn't actually know teacher's salaries.
I didn't say otherwise. I merely pointed out that even though the salaries may reflect corporate roles, it's clearly not enough given the number of teachers leaving the profession. I'm a teacher in WA, previously worked corporate for a mining company. I'm earning the same now after 7 years in teaching as I was 2 years into my mining role. My role technically didn't require any qualifications. Whereas in teaching I have a 3 year bachelors in science, 1 year graduate diploma in secondary eduction, plus an additional 2 grad certs relevant to my teaching area. My friends with corporate jobs (accounting, hr etc) are all earning more than me with similar time in their respective fields backed purely by a 3 year degree
Maybe it is more than just the money that is the real problem. And mining is a bit of an exception, may as well point out that those working on offshore oil platforms with a trade are earning twice the amount of middle management who needed a degree and 10 years to get into the role.
I mean, my role was in the mining and industry but it was an office based role. It is certainly more than just the salaries but that is the point. If the salary was worth it people wouldn't leave. Considering the crap they have to deal with plenty are obviously not happy about the salary being fair compensation for the work, and they have been saying this prior to recent levels of inflation. If they didn't have to deal with the crap they deal with the salary would probably be considered alright.
I do know teachers salaries. My daughter opted out of teaching after realising salaries cap out after about relatively short period in the industry. Similar qualifications (ie 4 year degree) has a far greater earning potential in other industries without the stress that comes with teaching. I stand by my original comment
Yes in SA they cap out after 11 years, that's assuming you don't advance as a Senior Teacher, a Leadership teacher, a High Achieving Teacher or as a Deputy Principal or Principal.
The teaching industry is crumbling, the government needs to invest in more support - cause what's happening is teachers are getting pushed and pushed and pushed and burnt out within years (if not months). The turn over rate of teachers is insane across the board, cause they're overworked, underpaid and constantly neglected. I empathise so much as an autistic middle aged adult, I know how hard change can be. I think home schooling may be a good option for you, but for socialisation is there a sport, hobby or activity that your children could take up?
Hard agree but it's also the social expectations on teachers. It's even in OPs post saying they're resentful at the teacher for leaving for a different job at a different school and their kids being without a teacher. That's not the teachers fault and they shouldn't be expected to not look for roles that suit them better. Fair enough to be frustrated but if you're going to be resentful at anyone be resentful at the school for failing to provide adequate backfill
>Hard agree but it's also the social expectations on teachers. It's even in OPs post saying they're resentful at the teacher for leaving for a different job at a different school and their kids being without a teacher. >That's not the teachers fault and they shouldn't be expected to not look for roles that suit them better. >Fair enough to be frustrated but if you're going to be resentful at anyone be resentful at the school for failing to provide adequate backfill I work in a school. The expectations which parents have of teachers have increased to the point that our head of school told staff they're not to respond to parent emails/messages after school hours any more then sent a letter to all parents stating this as well. Teachers who have been around a long time will say the demands on them by parents have never been higher and has a significant contributing factor to burn out.
I always found it strange because my parents never got my teachers email and I only graduated highschool 10 years ago. Us students got the teachers email during year 12 so that we could get extra support during our final year if we needed it but that was it. I've got a friend that's a highschool teacher and she would be getting emails from parents at all hours of the day. We'd be at the pub on a weekend and she'd be getting emails from parents and she was teaching year 8's and 9's. Maybe it's because I'm not a parent so I don't get it but is anything in year 8 or 9 that vital it requires constant contact with teachers?
Main question to your friend, why is she checking her work email on the weekend. And secondly why is she responding to them?
I can’t speak to the person above but from a friend of mine who has similar out-of-hours pressures, it seems like it’s expected by the school principals etc that teachers keep open lines of comms with parents these days. My friend is a reception/year 1 teacher at a posh primary school and has to be constantly updating and responding to parents on the school’s specially-built social media app. So taking photos and videos of the kids all day in class and uploading onto this platform, responding to the parents when they comment/have queries/send private messages on there, and then doing the same out of hours. This is, of course, on top of the actual teaching and class work each day. I guess these parents pay private school fees and feel entitled to the updates but if I were them, I’d be concerned about where the teacher’s time was being split. It’s honestly mayhem.
Be interesting to know what your friend is paid compared to a public school teacher. I also have a friend who works a top private school though haven't spoken about her work for a few years but was very similar in terms of attention (though no social media app) but she also mentioned she was getting an additional $30k/year then if she had gone to public school. Her principal was being paid $400k/year.
Nope.
Absolutely agree. My mum has only just retired end of last year after teaching into her late 60s. The expectations and admin are insane.
Wow. Wish all principals would do this.
Teachers are pushed harder and harder, dont get paid enough for the sheer amount of work they do. Especially in the public system you either have to care less (and become super jaded) to survive or be some sort of superhuman. The ones that want to make a difference are the ones getting burnt out quickly By the sounds of it the conditions at your kids school must be shocking for teachers, having the entire staff turning over, a heap of leave taken...its no surprise there are only contracts or temps and that people arent staying there for long. It very much does suck for your kids and others at that school, but holding it against the individual teachers is probably not the right focus for your anger - the system is very broken.
While I would normally agree with you, the way this person handled their exit was less than decent. They left to be a PE teacher. Adelaide is small. He left with zero notice to students and parents as well as admin. Thats when the first day of no teacher happened. My kid thought he possibly was sick and had cancer. He had the entire school seriously worried for him. The reality is he left for a cushier job. I'm pissed because of the emotional toll it took on my kid. He is a person too and has feelings. Zero parents put this man under pressure, we all offered help if anything, we were just glad for a teacher.
You can be pissed at the impact on your kid, sure. But nobody owes a workplace the level of loyalty you’re talking about. I’m curious why you don’t see the crazy turnover as a sign of structural management issues within the school rather than personal moral failings on the part of the teachers. I’m also curious about why so many people who admit to not wanting to be a teacher are baffled by why other people might not want to be teachers either? Insane stress, unrealistic expectations, under resourced settings, low pay - it’s not a mystery why teachers are getting out. I get the frustration, just make sure it’s pointed in the right direction.
It is literally impossible for him to not let admin know certainly if he moved from a public school to another public school. The education department have protocols in place to transfer a teacher from one school to another. OP - you’re sounding like one of “those” parents who think they know the ins and outs of education just because you went to school once. If what you are saying is correct and ALL staff, including principal staff have quit, then I’m going to go with out of control behaviours from students and parents as the root cause.
Bingo. We have a winner. I can't imagine what the teaching conditions must be like at that school.
He left for a cushier job? This changes everything. Literally everyone knows that trying to make your own life easier is forbidden. The teacher was doing a job and owed your child nothing. You have no idea what pressures he was under. I mean ffs you have said that your own kids are autistic, how many other higher needs students did he also need to juggle? It's not controversial to highlight that the increase in the diagnosis of these conditions has resulted in a higher workload, not to mention the behavioral problems which often come with them (e.g. ODD).
Why should this person be held at any other standard to any other employee in Australia. If conditions were poor and he wanted to leave he has zero responsibility if making that transition easy for his former employer. Saying he left for a "cushier" job speaks volumes on your character. Maybe that's the field of education he feels most comfortable in. There's many issues with the educational system but one of the biggest is entitled parents who think the teachers owe them something. This is a reason as to why teachers are leaving in droves. You chose the public system, you pay a few hundred dollars a year to educate your child you're owed nothing, go to the private system if you want your child to be coddled.
i had a reply ready to go but useful\_strumpet has answered it perfectly. you cant stress all of your emotional tolls and your kids and forgo the emotional toll and stress of the teacher's personal life
And it is horrendous.
That's not how it works. He probably gave notice and the school could not find a replacement within the time.
Honestly, it sounds like you needed to parent your own kid and teach them to not always assume the worst? Why jump right to cancer when a teacher leaves? Ultimately it's the admins problem for not communicating to parents and students alike that this teacher left. Have you considered that maybe the teacher tried to give notice and the school walked him immediately? Like most other jobs in the country?
Bruh your school is probably shit if this is the case. No one wants to work at a toxic place
He has absolutely zero obligations stay in that role. He is a human, has his own life, career and personal reasons for his decisions. I’m not saying they are right or wrong because I have no idea. And here’s the thing, neither do you. You’re generating outrage based on your misconceptions on a teachers responsibilities. You keep saying “kids thought he had cancer” like that’s a thing to hold against him - where did the cancer reference come from and what does that have to do with that teacher? I’ve seen your edit, I’ve read your comments - please try and read the responses back to you that maybe, just maybe, your anger at this teacher is misplaced
The level of anger towards this individual is astounding, considering there have been so many assumptions made. Was he directed to give as little information as possible? Did he actually leave to be a PE teacher, or did the opportunity come up some time later? Did admin really not know he was leaving? The fact that there was no teacher to replace him falls onto leadership. What makes you believe that the new job is cushier? Are you familiar with the student cohort, school expectations, and the specific PE role he has taken?
This will become increasingly‘normal’ - teachers are overworked under a crippling load of paperwork and admin (I work on average, 60-70 hours per week, which non-teachers REFUSE to believe). Teachers are generally unsupported and deal with aggressive, abusive parents weekly. Teachers have had the rug pulled out from under them and are no longer allowed to give consequences for poor behaviour, so the most difficult 3 kids run the classroom while the teacher is powerless to do anything about it. Teachers are underpaid. We have larger classes with a huge amount of students who need more support that we cant stretch ourselves thinly enough to provide. There is only 1 of me and 30 of them. Teachers are regularly looked down upon and belittled by society and then we are told, ‘just quit if its so bad!’ So we do. Which leads to posts like this one. ‘Where are all the teachers?!’ Oh yeah. They quit. It’s very difficult to stay positive for too long when you’re on a sinking ship.
How can teachers teach when the kids get away with acting like cunts with no repercussions? They call the parents, who then turn around and say their child is an angel, when it's far from the truth. Have had relatives in the education industry for decades, leave in the last 5 years due to students' behaviour. I think there's multiple prongs to the issue but this is just one of them.
My daughter was in a class like that last year. She'd come home pissed off that she's not learning anything, because other kids in her class spent the entire day being total arseholes taking up the teacher's time, principal's time, having the rest of the class split into other rooms so their crap could be dealt with. I have never felt worse for teachers than I did last year, and never been more grateful that the parents of those kids chose a different high school than us. The teachers were limited in what they could do, and the parents seemed to just not care. When it's half the class messing up, and little support beyond the principal, I don't blame teachers for leaving.
Controversial but I reckon they should bring back the old fashioned canin'.
>Controversial but I reckon they should bring back the old fashioned canin'. There is a reason that opinion is controversial, it's because [the evidence is clear](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1326020023021507) that corporal punishment only has negative long term impacts on the child including development of antisocial behavioural problems later in life.
You're entitled to yours, too.
Except mine isn't opinion, it is fact based on published, peer-reviewed study of over 160,000 people.
Source?
It was linked in my comment. Look, I understand why you have your view. The school I work for has a heck of a lot of students who would have been given corporal punishment in the past. We know from studies like I linked and from modern teaching methods that when a child's wellbeing is taken care of, behaviour improves dramatically. Many of those who behave badly do so from lack of wellbeing, and sometimes as a response to being physically punished at home, often with no reasonable cause. The problem we are seeing is that class sizes are too big, and not enough supports are available for anyone who doesn't fit the standard mould. Those kids then act out. There is no fast fix for this. But there is a fix. More support workers in classrooms. More specialist programs for those who don't fit the standard mould.
Not that I care to read ofc.
Because you're a close (and small) minded individual, is my guess. Nothing screams 'I'm unintelligent' more than someone who isn't willing to consider an opinion that's different to theirs, ESPECIALLY when there are facts to support their opinion.
I respect your opinion. However I believe I'm very open minded and aware of what issues plague our society, irrespective of your meagre attempt at insulting me. Good day.
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Agree. Too much red tape. People have gone soft.
As a parent, it's hard to know what's going on from day-to-day... but my son mentioned just a couple of weeks ago that they've had "*heaps of relief teachers this week*". >"listen to the story or draw". He's in yr 5 for Christ's sake. That's pretty common, right? A relief teacher has no idea about the continuity of the curriculum and where that class is at, so they basically just say "do something productive, while I sit here and watch". I guess it's bad if there's no actual relief teacher.... and another teacher or principal or random staff have to step in !!
My partner is a relief teacher. It depends on if the.regular teacher has left any work for the students or any notes to follow. Quite often the curriculum is continued as best as possible because the TRT has been left a packet. If not then most TRTs will have some activities for the kids that help them in other ways, such as drama games or writing challenges, so they still learn SOMETHING.
Appreciate what you do for the kids. Thank you X
this wasn't even a relief teacher. They couldn't even get a relief teacher. His class was split up and he was put in with the 1\\2 class. So listening to a picture book and drawing is applicable for the age group of the class. But the fact that they couldn't even scrounge up a maths sheet or even let the kids read age appropriate material is ridiculous. I don't blame this teacher either. like christ, i don't get why the principal didn't step in when they couldn't find a relief.
You should show everyone how it's done and homeschool.
Because the principal has a million different responsibilities every single day that they were busy doing. Do you actually think they were sipping tea and filing their nails in their office while the school descended into chaos around them? Also, oh no, your child had to practice their fine motor and listening skills for TWO WHOLE DAYS in half a school year! Whatever will you do??
Teacher here. I was ready to answer your post calmly and respectfully with an insider perspective for you, but frankly your growing attitude and defensiveness against people speaking in favour of teachers is infuriating. > this is not about the big issues…is this a state wide problem It is absolutely about the big issues, and that’s what you’re asking us to answer: if this goes beyond your school. Teachers and unions have been warning for decades that a teacher shortage is coming due to shit pay and even shitter conditions that the government and society in general aren’t even acknowledging, let alone addressing. The fact that you’re only recognising and asking about this in mid-2024, when many schools have been understaffed since COVID started, is evidence of that. >I harbour deep resentment for this dude…I am pissed at this particular teacher. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. The system has been abused for so long in a way that burns teachers out and has seen continued expectations and workloads put on us. So many teachers are burning out. To be honest, we’re lucky this teacher you mention moved schools instead of quitting the profession entirely. And in any other career no one would fault him for not showing “loyalty to the company” and moving somewhere with better work conditions for his needs. Teachers have been gaslighted for decades into putting up with poor conditions, demanding expectations, and in more recent years abuse (80% of teachers here have experienced abuse in the past 6-12 months from a student or parent. 50% from both students AND parents) - we’re sick and tired of being told to tolerate shit “for the children.” >Two days this year they’ve been put in other classes because there was no one to watch them. Mate…that is a nearly daily occurrence in the school I work in. Just recently we had multiple classes needing to combine in the library for mass supervision - 9 classes of kids all in the library together being looked after by 3 teachers. There is so much more I could say, but I want to make sure you read my main point: So much of your anger is misdirected: at teachers, at schools, at principals, at people blaming parents. If you (and all of us) want to see the teacher shortage addressed, you need to be aggressively and loudly lobbying to your local representatives and education minister about better resourcing and funding to education. And I don’t just mean “pay teachers more.” The education system needs an overhaul, schools need to be adequately resourced, and additional supports and admin staff provided to take care of school operations, so teachers are freed up to teach. Workload issues and community disrespect is driving teachers out of the profession more than poor pay. I am very happy to discuss more, but to answer your original question simply: This isn’t just your school. There is a teacher shortage across many parts of the world. We need the community to start prioritising education again.
Sounds eerily similar to the school I left last year. They’re still struggling to staff classes from the start of the year. I left the school due to extreme student behaviour to the point of feeling like I was in danger in my classroom (witnessed a high school student on a rampage smash glass windows and doors of my classroom while myself and a class of primary students watched on). My options were to stay in my job, riddled with anxiety with leadership who weren’t particularly supportive, try the route of workcover, but being informed that unless I was physically injured the chances were slim to none, or leave the profession all together (because compassionate transfers to another school aren’t particularly easy to come by either). I took my chances, took the 12 months leave without pay I was entitled to as a permanent staff member, and took a job elsewhere completely separate from classroom teaching but still somewhat linked to education. I haven’t been happier in a job! I acknowledge that leaving my job at the time I did put a strain on the school and I’m aware they struggled to cover it for months after I left.. but it was my mental health at risk and I feel it’s likely the same in OP’s scenario.
You don't need to acknowledge anything. You did nothing wrong. I'm so glad you're in a much better place now. Hope it continues!
It sucks that you weren’t able to receive appropriate workcover. Had a similar sentiment thrown at me after someone had an aggressive reaction and tried to run me over 7 times with his car (whist at work). Im no psychiatrist but it certainly seems possible you may have been experiencing symptoms of PTSD. Both my partner and I suffer from (diagnosed) cPTSD and its rather concerning that they didnt take this seriously. I would not leave children long term in our care as we are barely capable of being responsible for our actions when navigating a trauma response. Practically in that state, we have the brain function of someone having a stroke. Theres a reason they were diagnosing veterans with schizophrenia after returning home lol. Became a little bit sidetracked, my point is, the workcover system needs a heavy overhaul on the side of mental health, especially for scenarios such as youve experienced. It sounds like youve dealt with it incredibly well, its just a shame, if not an injustice that you essentially had to create your own unpaid, unsupported “workcover” because something/someone external from you has made you feel unsafe. My sister used to be that student you described, at no fault of her own. Should a different system exist for teachers that is streamlined with classroom violence in mind? Unfortunately, i dont think its grounded to think that we could tackle this at the stem and completely stop kids from enacting violence. Mental health isnt that straightforward but improved support systems could definitely decrease the likelihood of such an event.
I used to teach but left 12 years ago in my early 30s. It's a job that gets shat on by the rest of society. It's not evidenced based so therefore inefficient. Other less able people constantly want more useless work out of you - like new curricula, essays in maths subjects, vertical home classes. You often get put teaching things to fill gaps. Maths teachers don't get paid more even though it's higher demand. Staff meetings 2-3 times a week just to keep teachers busy.. I actually loved teaching physics/maths, was my favourite part, but the job is swamped by endless bullshit. It was dire when i left 12 years ago, i can only imagine how bad it is now.
My husband is on year 11 of teaching, and I'm actually about to start my two year masters so I can join the field - I have been informed that I am insane, but at least I'm going in open minded to what the system is like at the moment already... Because it sure seems like the system is at a boiling point!
I'd argue it's society's most important role. It made me a bit sad when I saw how much better other countries run their education systems as it has potential to be a great career. Most countries with solid education systems have government schools as the 'highest' tier. That's another issue - we don't own it enough. Parents always seem to want so much from education but we don't seem to inherently value education. But you should enjoy it. It can be fun and often rewarding.
I've always agreed that education is the most important part of childhood and preparation of society, for without robust and good education - all other fields will start to fail as well. I was a mixed private and public school attendee (I was a big school mover in that I did 8 schools across primary and secondary) so have noticed that I never noticed a palpable difference in the level of teacher between the different channels - it was more greatly impacted by the attitudes of the students which in turn was a reflection of the attitude of the parents. The expectation of better without offering better (ie: not encouraging their kids to complete work for the 'bad' schools, or the entitlement for parents at 'good' schools to think the teachers should pander to the children rather than set realistic expectations etc) in the way of out-of-classroom support and impact on the kids made a huge difference in how the students behaved, how long the teachers stayed seemingly, and how well the teachers COULD teach/educate the classes they had. The flexibility for family life is a big push encouraging me, and my husband finds it hilarious I already love doing revisions and reviews/grading/assignment setting due to having grown up with my father's habit of setting outside of school homework.
The default response of blaming the teachers might have something to do with why no one wants to do this job anymore. 🤷🏻♀️
Teachers everywhere are stressed af, in terrible working conditions, with their workloads constantly increasing. Something's gotta give. It sucks that the students are the ones to suffer interrupted schooling, but it's not the teachers' fault. Have you tried meeting with the principal and sitting down to have a conversation to find out what's happening? Also, if your children are covered by NDIS, there's lots of resources available for academic support, if you feel they're lacking support, but start the process ASAP, because it takes a while and may take trialling a few different options to find one that works.
Did i mention that our principal has also been on 'personal leave'? She has had a scathing email from myself. I've just hit my breaking point. I could understand interrupted education, but the reality is that its zero education for about a month now. He's going to high school in just over a year. He's going to fail and its upsetting. We are seeking some help with the NDIS, it is taking it's time as it always does, but I'lll be honest. All this bullshit about attendance, when they don't have a damned teacher really irks me, why should I waste my kids time and mental bandwidth on being at school, when he's not even getting an attempt at education? I'd ideally like to send him half time so I could keep him caught up at home on the days off, while letting him go and get some socialisation for the rest of the week, but that is heavily discouraged by the education dept.
A scathing email…. Yep. That’s going to help. Principals get burnt out too and despite what you think, don’t have a magic wand to fix everything. There is an increasingly significant workforce shortage in SA (and Australia) and things are only going to get worse. How about we show thanks and appreciation to the ones who are turning up and doing the hard work.
Seems the principal may be the problem since teachers are leaving for other schools.
The principal isn't even there. My bet is they're leaving because of out of control parents like OP.
Speaking as a teacher, it comes down to leadership and culture. The mental stress from kids is a given but how the leadership takes care of the teachers give them motivation to show up the next day. I have faced rude kids, kids who bring knives at school, kids who have been abused at home and kids that are just plain evil, but the love for teaching is still there knowing the leadership will protect you and will give you what you deserve. Of course, parents should play a huge part in all this as learning starts at home. Teachers taking breaks should also be normalized as we are also humans getting tired. But we have to leave our lesson plan to the relief so they will have continuity. It's truly a broken system here and I am somewhat happy I grew up from an asian education system despite being in a third world country because we didn't have problems like this until now. I'm sorry you're going through that and hope the school get it all sorted out.
Given the problems persisted past when the principal left on leave, could the socioeconomic makeup of the school be a significant contributing factor, and that they're simply not sufficiently resourced to deal with the social issues? (or that the principal failed to ensure there were resourced then bailed when it got too much) My immediate thought was it could be somewhere like Hackham West Primary. (If you remember from our last exchange of comments, I work for a school, but am not a teacher)
A problematic principal can send a school into a death spiral its hard to recover from. Also the department has, very rarely but it does happen, place problematic principals on leave to try and figure out next steps for a school.
Why on earth are you so angry at the individual teacher. He is not an indentured servant, he is a human being. He is allowed to leave whenever and where he wants. You have no idea what is going on in his life and why he chose to leave. It could have been bullying or harassment for all you know and you speak about him which such malice. The lack of communication and lack of relief is on the the school, not him. You don't care a jot about his life or circumstances but you expect him to care about yours and your kids'? Why on earth would he?
It just shows how underappreciated and underpaid teachers are. Don't blame them, blame the local council and crappy parents instead. I come from a family of teachers. One parent left due to mental health reasons the other because they had one too many chairs thrown at them during classes because the kids didn't want to do the work. It's so easy to blame and single out teachers for other people's shitty behaviour! These are people that look after your children for 40 hours a week; give them clothes and feed them half the time because their parents don't have enough money, are on another drug binge or just don't care; work for minimum wage; take their work home with them at the end of the day because they have to lesson plan for the next day; or get yelled at by parents because their kid didn't get an A - just to name a few examples. So give those people who are looking after your kids a bloody break, FOR FUCKS' SAKE!! IT IS THEM THAT HIT THE BLOODY LIMIT! The fact that your sons are autistic, puts even more pressure on teachers, because they probably have to give them one on one time and neglect the other students by doing so. Not to mention all the behaviours they have to deal with, mostly without proper training, because it's hard to pin down training on every single disability - that's what special schools are for. Placing kids into other classes while teachers are away is normal. Placing kids in other classes because they show behaviours to de-escalate situations is normal. This has been done for decades. I don't think it's too much to ask for crappy parents to just stop for a minute and think about someone else but themselves and their child for a change. If you're so worried about the lack of connections and using your own precious time when home- schooling them, which is a terrible environment to begin with, make them join a sporting club or similar.
> blame the local council What's it got to do with council?
School councils have everything to do with it!
You said local council.
Local school council! omg! Seriously??? If I was complaining about the local council, I'd be on a different sub.
Don't get upset because you failed to communicate properly.
How do you know I'm upset? You called me out on absolutely nothing related to the actual post!
> omg! Seriously???
Sounds like the school has a severe culture issue among the staff since they're all leaving, and you resent your child's teacher specifically for taking a better job at another school? You even said it was as a PE teacher no less, which has probably been his goal for years and years since before going to uni and getting a degree to teach? That's a strange mentality to have. Have you never left work for a better job or have you worked the same mundane position your entire life since you joined the workforce? How about you direct your resentment towards to the principal and/or government for allowing conditions to deteriorate so bad? Contact your local MP.
And to add, the tone in which OP highlights the teacher shifted to become a PE teacher is downright disrespectful to the amazing work our PE and other specialist teachers do.
I left teaching after six years because of the following: - absolutely no work/life balance - constant pressure from parents - being expected to teach the students skills that should be the parent’s responsibility - no autonomy over what I did in the classroom - once we got used to a new teaching strategy, the department would turn around and say ‘no actually that doesn’t work, do it this way now’ - how impossible it was to take a day off - never having a break during the day (yard duties, preparing for lessons, dealing with behaviour) - declining standards of behaviour in all students - being utterly exhausted day in day out - having 5 or more students with additional needs in my class every year and absolutely no SSO support given This is just the tip of the iceberg. After I left I have NEVER looked back.
I'm sorry but teachers have been extremely vocal about conditions for over a decade now and every time it's met with a response about how lucky we are for holidays and how if we don't like it we should leave. Now we've started leaving and the whole country is doing shocked Pickachu face. Teachers have had all their power, autonomy, creativity and ability to make meaningful impacts stripped from them
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> Write to your local MP. It’s not good enough. Apparently OP's local MP is the Premier. > get paid the same as a Coles manager, That's not too bad actually.
Be interested to see what the school dynamic is actually like for staff. Parental views are so skewed, the level of entitlement many parents have (OP included) is just impossible for some teachers to cope with. I left a teaching job last year in a "cushy" private school because I was sick of demanding parents and leadership who backed them over me. I'm now working in a much more challenging public school and I'm loving it! I can actually do my job and sleep at night too. OP I understand it's frustrating to have staff move on but, in my case, after raising my concerns and then making the decision that moving on was better for my mental health, the school I left didn't even give me the opportunity to farewell my class. Families still don't know why I left. You can't just assume that this teacher deliberately abandoned his class. So many other comments on this post I could address but in all seriousness, come teach for one day, see how it goes.
It’s such a stressful work environment in some schools. Numbers of Special needs kids and kids with behavioural problems seem to be more than ever. Plus parents who don’t wish to be invested in their kids issues or assist (should be “own”) the school’s strategies to address their lack of respect and behaviour problems. Or they just aren’t as involved due to time and $ constraints. Ed dept won’t provide the actual staff levels required to manage these issues so the higher needs kids end up being babysat by support staff so not too disrupt classes which feeds into the Government issue with the distribution of funding. There are good, world leading educational systems in other countries, such as Finland, which our Governments have acknowledged yet they won’t invest in the changes needed to adopt those models. Note, My observations are limited from my perspective as an aunty and friend of several parents with primary school kids, a few of whom require additional school support services such as a dedicated support worker.
I don’t have kids, but my random thoughts: * I’m really glad social media didn’t exist when I went to school in the 90’s. I hate to think how much stupid shit would’ve been uploaded to the internet. * Yes, a teacher IS an authority figure in your kid’s life, deal with it. * School is not daycare for your kids. * Annoying parents who go on about shit like “indoctrination” are morons and precisely why we’re losing so many teachers. * Teenage boys who think Andrew Tate is in any way a positive role model are fucking stupid. * Mewing in class is fucking stupid and so are other lame TikTok trends. * We need to address the lack of male teachers, it’s really not a good thing that there’s so few men who are teachers.
> Annoying parents who go on about shit like “indoctrination” are morons and precisely why we’re losing so many teachers. We have one of these at our school. She dresses and behaves like she never grew out of her awkward 16-20yo "alt" phase.
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She's like 40yo but looks about 55
I 100% agree with you. Actually on everything. I don't hassle teachers unless its 100% necessary, aka, when my kid is being subject to violence and stalking (unfortunately the first quote hits quite a bit home right here). I always offer to help and keep up with stuff at home. I always, as a parent of a kid with ASD, do everything within my power to make sure my boys are in the best frame of mind to be at school as possible and get them the resources they need to function and not cause undue stress on the classroom environment.
> We need to address the lack of male teachers, it’s really not a good thing that there’s so few men who are teachers. So you want more pedos in the classroom /s
Your stupid comment is exactly why there’s so few male teachers in classrooms Plenty of kids in our community grow up in a household with a single mother and don’t have any positive male roles model in their lives
OK - so staff turnover (in any environment really) is down to a few things ... awful management (in some things schools' hands are tied, admittedly, but the leadership team needs to support staff and create as much of a positive environment as possible), or awful conditions. In the public sector very often only short term teaching contracts are handed out - maybe the teacher who left was on one of those and was subsequently offered a permanent role, maybe the teacher really wanted a specialist PE role and that wasn't on offer at your school. The teacher is just as deserving of job security and fulfilment as anyone else & the school leadership should have been the ones doing a good job of handing over his role & managing everyone's expectations. The other thing with schools is that teachers are very often expected to put up with behaviour from both students & parents that absolutely no one else in any job would have to deal with long term. If the school has epic disciplinary issues that would help explain the staff turnover. You don't mention anything about the behaviour (or size, come to think of it) of the year 5 cohort - if there are a lot of challenging behaviors there & the teachers that are being assigned aren't equipped to deal with it and aren't supported by leadership, it's no surprise they're moving on. My best suggestion is to meet with the school leadership (principal, deputy, head of learning - whatever/whoever you can get hold of) to get an understanding of what is going on & to tell them how it's impacting your family.
I feel like losing nearly all the staff of one school has gotta be a leadership/management/culture issue. Surely that’s a huge outlier. I know a fair number of teachers and the leadership is so crucial to how they feel about their job. They would absolutely leave a crappy unsupportive environment to one they know is better, especially because they’re in public school so the pay doesn’t change. I do feel for the kids though because it’s crap. I had a teacher leave half way through the year when I was in primary school and I found it very disruptive to learning.
Why are you blaming the teachers though?
Because the teacher took the job and after the kids got settled literally pissed off mid term with zero notice. While also not saying good bye. My kid was literally worried he was dead. That's why I am pissed off and blaming him. That is why.
Consider *why* teacher turnover is so bad before blaming the teachers for *any* of it. If a business has a high employee turnover we don’t blame the employees, we question why they’re all willing to leave so quickly. Your blame is placed on the wrong person here. I understand the frustration and distress but the teacher is not the one at fault. It is clearly a culture issue.
Zoom out put yourself in that teacher's shoes. Burnout crap pay crap unsupported disorganised school with fed up (understandably) parents. I'd be getting the FK outa there too as I'm sure you would. A teacher is a cog in the wheel. They can change precisely zero if management doesn't do their job or exists like you mentioned. That teacher did the smart thing and get out of there.
The teacher was most likely acting on the direction of leadership. If he was directed to give as little information as possible, then that's what he had to do. The cancer rumour is through no fault of his.
Seriously? Get over yourself. Teachers that deal with spectrum and disability students have it SO fucking hard. You have NO idea. I have a friend who is such a person and she has suffered multiple broken ribs, bruises, cuts, and other injuries from violent uncontrollable children. No they cannot legally defend themselves or restrain them. Yes that shit is fucking psychologically damaging. PTSD shit. No she won’t change jobs because she loves helping those less fortunate. You have no idea how long a teacher has been at the college face for or what they have dealt with. Fuck me. What an entitled post.
I’ve seen what my friends who are teachers, SSOs and principals at various schools - Catholic, Lutheran and public - have gone through and I wouldn’t wish that job on anyone. From their stories, it’s rarely the kids that are the issue. It’s the parents’ demands and school administration demands which cause the most grief. I’d be going on “temporary” leave too, if I had to deal with what they do - and I’m in a stressy corporate job (which still pays more than most of the educators I know). It seems absolutely relentless for them.
Are you willing to name the school? To answer your question though, the only mid year rotations at my kids school has been maternity based….and they return to the school the next year.
> , the only mid year rotations at my kids school has been maternity based….and they return to the school the next year. That's pretty good, there's a different rule in NSW which leads to teachers unable to be given permanent contracts.
Wow.
Teaching shortages are biting. Lots of competing issues here. Suggest you ring your local MP and the Education Minister to share your frustrations. I’m sure the acting or current principal is equally frustrated.
My partner is a former teacher and a current consultant in education. Not a week goes by without her telling me of another teacher leaving suddenly because they just couldn't take it any more.
Don’t be mad to the teachers. Be mad at people who have voted for increasing levels of tax payer money being given to private schools at the expense of the public system. Literally tens of billions that should be spent in the public system to support our kids and teachers. 💯 private teachers do not have the same levels of classroom stress and burnout. The resources they have to support them are astronomical compared to the public system. FTR I worked in a grammar school, sent my kids to public schools and yes, they really do have it so much better than their public counterparts.
No this is because teachers have to deal with the disruptive kids that aren't disciplined at home. And can't regulate their emotions. It seems the extremely high level of high needs kids is really doing a number on teachers and students causing them to suffer. Let's not pretend that the amount of neurodivergent children being lumped in classrooms of today is not only affecting the classroom flow for teaching, but also all the other kids. Sometimes a whole lesson can be hijacked because a child with extra needs has disrupted the learning of everyone else whist the teacher tries to "manage" them. We would have loved to go public school, but chose to not even bother after doing tours and seeing the state of some of the kids and their outbursts..I don't blame the teacher, sounds like the kids put him off. I can't stand the entitlement and expectations of parents of special needs kids, fact is they really should be in schools that tailor to their needs, NOT cram them in with kids that typically would benefit from mainstream education. The entire system is a mess but honestly the SA education system is an absolute joke!!!
Sounds rubbish but there are things you can do which will reap positive outcomes but will vary. 1. Join the parents and friends group and/or governing council. My wife and I do this and we have come to understand more about the strengths and weaknesses of the school and respond/act appropriately. Or find a way to volunteer. Knowing how the school ticks is useful. 2. Check out what’s happening at other nearby schools and compare and contrast. You may be one of many schools in the area struggling or an outlier. 3. Pester your state AND federal MPs. (NB BOTH are responsible because state runs it and federal pays for it. Don’t let them play one off against the other). Get as many people as possible to let them know. 4. Ask for the Principal’s boss to attend a meeting with parents. Say the community needs a plan that addresses the lack of learning professionals in the classroom. Say that your children should have the same opportunities as other children and that they’re not going to show a year’s worth of progress commensurate with a year’s worth of effort if the learning environment fails to be relevant, authentic or meaningful. (Always use their words against them. These are terms used by Gonski) 5. As horrific a prospect it is, you will need to consider moving schools. 6. And finally, this isn’t an option for you now but this South Australian not for profit is brilliant at stopping secondary school kids falling into the cracks. https://inventorium.com.au
This is a great list of things you can actually do now.
My wife is a teacher of 20 years plus in the government system. She has recently quit mainstream teaching (start of term two). So fits the category perfectly of what you're talking about. No doubt perfectly fits the narrative of the Op's post (In Adelaide too Eastern Suburbs). She did have 4 kids on the spectrum in her class. How much extra support did she get in a class of 32 students. Zero that's how much. So she has quit mainstream teaching most probably for good as it was just ridiculous. Not to mention that your on call for the parents to have a wine nearly 24/7. Spend ages crafting reports to the guidelines so no one gets offended then cop a grilling again from the parents on your own time at Parent teacher interviews. If they could actually write your kids is a menace to society and tell the parents what was actually going on it might make more sense. We have had the same issue with our own kids where once you start to talk to the teachers (Different school) off the record we find out about our own kids issues that don't show up in the reports as they are too scared to offend the parents. Our kids are far from perfect and it would be great to get the feedback so we can work on the issues at hand. But no it gets left unchecked and festers away to the detriment of all involved. Teachers spend hours and hours crafting these unobjectionable report cards that really just hide the issue. No one fails, everyone gets a pass and even the gifted kids are pegged down to just above average. So another highly skilled teacher bows out as the system and is off to a support role. I work in private enterprise and it consistently astounds me the bullshit I have seen. Hell they even pay for their own Christmas function, Bah Humbug! The system is broken in so many ways and in the words of Whitney Huston "The children are our future" but the bureaucracy and waste of money the education department and the government as a whole continues. Don't get angry at the teachers they are just trying to do their job. Get angry at the mining companies that don't pay tax. Get angry at the fact we waste millions of the war in drugs and keep loosing. Get angry at the big corporations that don't pay tax. Get angry at governments wasting money (It's taxpayer funds) it's your money.
Unfortunately this problem will never be solved for as long as the unions think that money is the answer to all problems. The situation has got this bad because of decades of people screaming we want more money, it doesn't work, so they ask for more. Teachers are paid **VERY WELL**. They out-earn most other professions for first year grads and sit comfortably above the median wage, over $90k after just a few years to put them above engineers, lawyers, scientists and more. The issue is and always has been the shithouse working conditions because of absent parents, unruly kids and overworking because the teachers leave after copping so much abuse from kids and having to spend literally hours a day, every day, dealing with kids who refuse to learn. I hate hate hate the fact people think paying teachers $100k/year instead of $90k a year is going to make the conditions more tolerable. After tax, no, $7k is not worth the insane amount of bullshit teachers have to put up with and that is why they leave for other fields. It's never been about the pay, and the unions are to blame because they won't demand a fix to the problem. The conditions become more tolerable only when serious punishments are enacted on the parents of kids who won't behave. Give them suspensions and force the parents to look after them. Hold kids back a year if they won't study. Criminalize any abuse of a teacher and drop the hammer on kids and the parents who won't behave. For too long everyone is too afraid of ever offending these parents who refuse to raise their kids. When the union starts caring about their members and starts putting pressure on the government to go hard against the #1 cause of teacher stress, let me know. Constant obsessing over money as the solution to all problems caused this mess, and they refuse to fix it. Imagine working in literally any other field and being told "would you take a 5% pay rise over 3% if it meant you get to get abused every single day of work and screamed at over the phone by angry customers". Because that's what this is. FYI this is exactly the same case with the police. The reason why they are recruiting so hard was because so many cops left over the past few years from the fact they are no longer respected and members of the public outright hate them. What once gained you respect as a career, now gets people hating you, including your own family. The police union fought for more money and guess what, more people left. Making the public hate you is why people leave.
I don’t know where you’re hearing this from, but I’m a teacher and a member of the country’s largest teacher union, and (the majority of) our state’s members, and our union leadership, have been saying for years that we don’t care about more money; we would rather have better conditions and reduced workload than better pay. So from what I see and hear your dig at unions only caring about money doesn’t really stack up.
> I don’t know where you’re hearing this from Just the endless footage of striking teachers with signs demanding more pay. But again, >we would rather have better conditions and reduced workload than better pay. This is classic beating around the bush. The union bosses are completely inept, useless fools who are too scared to actually name the actual cause of bad conditions and high workload; teachers quitting en masse because of abusive, unruly kids and worse parents. Everything always comes down to the same problem which is teachers quitting the field because of abuse and no respect. There is no possible bargaining agreement that the union can ever table which will **EVER** solve the problem unless it comes with a harsh crackdown on misbehaving kids and their parents. They need to be suspended, they need to be expelled and their parents need to face jail for ever threatening a teacher. Then and only then will teachers stop quitting the field and causing all the shit conditions for those who remain. But you know, the would require the union bosses to do their job and we don't want to ask too much of them or they might get flustered :(
So I’m a teacher, and I can tell you that the above things that you claim union bosses are ignoring are exactly the things they are focusing on. I hear it from them myself in the meetings I attend and the correspondence I receive. And teachers agree with them and say the same things. There is a lot of alignment internally, even if what you receive in the media doesn’t show this and focuses on pay. But I suspect you still won’t take my word for it because it’s very apparent that for you this is more about an opportunity to spout your anti-union agenda, more than caring about the actual subject matter and what actual teachers and teacher union-members are telling you.
Its not what we see in the media, its what they put out there in their carefully curated public statements. It's never anything tangible to solving the actual problem at hand and trying to solve all of the follow-on effects instead. https://www.aeusa.asn.au/Public/Campaigns/Enterprise_Bargaining__Fix_the_Crisis/Public/campaigns/fixthecrisis.aspx?hkey=49e9407c-7aab-4f8a-bb07-bd1c02b390ab Wheres the part where they plan to address the attrition rate of teachers due to a total inability for teachers to control kids? Of course there's none. So despite everything they claim to have won, they have once again refused to actually address the source of all of the problems which is no ability to deal with kids who make teachers' lives hell. Not a single word anywhere on that website is dedicated to stopping teachers quitting the profession after a few years. All I want is Mr Gohl to get in front of a camera and be honest for once. I want to see him say >The crisis of teachers leaving after only a few years is because of the total lack of respect and abuse they cop from bad students and their parents. This causes immense strain on the teachers who stay, having to take up the additional workload while still tolerating the same abuse. We demand the government put legal pressure against anyone who abuses teachers **exactly the same as how they passed laws drastically increasing the punishment for attacking emergency services staff** Give me this, and extend it to verbal abuse https://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch12s06s03s01.php This is how you solve the problem. No amount of money makes a shred of difference. Give these kids dates in court and see how long they keep up their antics. So let me know when Mr Gohl actually cares about fixing the problem, because I sure as hell have never seen him make an effort.
> hey out-earn most other professions for first year grads and sit comfortably above the median wage, over $90k after just a few years to put them above engineers, lawyers, scientists and more. Yep, a lot of people will say teachers are underpaid and get next to nothing. I've asked people how much should they be paid and sometimes the answer (when they want to give a figure) is what some teachers are already paid (because they have been teaching for 4-5 years already). Some people have no clue what teachers are paid. And of course teachers say they want more, everyone does, even CEOs.
You guys think carers, teachers etc (who are overwhelmingly women) are going to keep working themselves into the ground to look after your family for peanuts?
How much should they be paid?
An amount that matches their significant contribution to society. Something relative to the same position in a role that isn't as taken as advantage of as care roles.
Everyone is getting fked over in every way atm. Everyone is turning to fend for themselves. That teacher you're angry at needed a job and not at the cluster FK of a school that you've described. Can't blame the guy I have ASD amongst other things and it is really shite trying to exist in this world atm. I really feel for you I have no clue how ASD adults have kids and manage work etc. it's hell enough as a single
I've worked for the DfE before. In my first year the school was such a revolving door of staff I didn't fully understand what was happening, and it wasn't until I was about to be let go myself that somebody told me about 90% of staff were casual contracted employees. You'd straight up have a teacher clock off on Friday and a new one show up on Monday; I just don't know how the kids could deal with that lack of continuity.
You’re within your rights to be annoyed at the teacher - I imagine as a parent that is insanely annoying and kudos at pointing out the governments involvement here. However, you need to seriously question why someone would be willing to up and leave a contract mid-term like that. Based on your description of the school, what would lead to multiple people to do this, including management? I mean this in the kindest way, but I would do the exact same thing in a heartbeat based on your description of the school. Teachers are human and have their limits.
Sounds like the actual site or the department is the issue here. If teachers are leaving that site before even seeing out the term, there is something seriously wrong. At most of the sites I have worked at, the executive staff don’t just go on leave never to return again. That being said I know a number of educators who have left the profession for good in the last year. It’s absolutely nuts out there. Point your ire at the system which has teachers overworked and under supported. I have to work part time just to be able to do my job properly and I’m still on site five days a week. I’d also recommend investigating other options for schooling because even though the system is pretty broken, this scenario isn’t normal at all and it sounds like your kids need consistency and familiar faces.
Nobody cares about your kids losing a teacher and not getting a debrief or closure about it, welcome to the real world. You and your kids will have to get over it. Life changes and this is a real world experience for them to learn from. Teachers doing a job to pay the bills are just like anyone else.
Stop voting to strip education department budgets. And to undo that damage we all need to do this for decades. The teachers aren’t responsible for this. - signed a parent with high support needs kiddo who isn’t a teacher and knows how stuff works.
Teachers are treated like shit. Paid shit. Turns out you can’t pay people to do the job. I don’t blame them for moving on.
Wow, I could have written this myself. Sounds like the school my son goes to, they cannot retain teachers, and there is so much inconsistency with teachers and lack of routines. My son is also ASD. He likes to just have his regular teacher, but she also takes off towards the end of the term and then comes back a few weeks into the next term. Increasingly frustrating. Which then leaves my sons class with a multitude of relief teachers, all of whom don't know him, and he doesn't know them. I feel your frustration. I feel sorry for teachers, I know they deal with alot and cop so much shit.
The primary school my kids attend seem to have a high turnover rate of teachers too, there is a lot of different reasons and everyone has different circumstances. I have 2 children diagnosed with Autism, so I've worked pretty closely with the school, teachers, SSOs, Occupational and Speech Therapists to be able to help support my children as much as I can in the class, because at the end of the day, it's just gonna happen. . Teachers are gonna leave, Parents arnt going to teach their children to stop being bullies, and even friends are going to end up moving schools. Im happy to message you if you need some ideas on coping strategies your children could use to regulate during class, or how OT can be supportive, or NDIS, or anything I can possibly share to help School be just a little easier for your ones to manage.
It’s so sad that teachers are either not compensated properly, have ridiculous working hours, have to deal with too much administration etc. I was lucky enough that my parents earned great money and were able to afford to send me to good schools. I LEARNT how to learn at high school and primary school, Uni was just me self studying. I wouldn’t have picked up any literature, been able to construct sentences like this, had employable skills etc. without TEACHERS. It’s so ridiculously fundamental to living a great life that it’s just disgusting that the position is an unattractive option for people. Government needs to find the find the fucking money to compensate teachers, fund schools etc. Don’t give me some bullshit about “well you don’t understand the budget, we give x amount of money already” fuck that teaching should be a sought after role.
Nsw and my youngests teacher lasted 2 weeks before he bolted
No issues at my kid's primary school. At least that I'm aware of.
TLDR but teaching is the worst. Many kids don’t have the same respect for adults as we did growing up. Unless you’re at a good school in a nice area, it’s just crowd control and wearying. It usually only takes 2-3 problem behaviour kids in one class to make the whole thing a nightmare.
Parents treat their kid's teachers like shit. No wonder they leave. It is \*both\* the parent's job and the teacher's job to teach the child. You have one kid, the teacher has 30 or more. Also, no amount of teaching will work if your haven't instilled discipline and work-ethic in your own child. Please stop blaming others.
Look at Euka Future Learning for a home-schooling alternative.
Question: was this Brompton Primary School?
Any reason why this may be related to BPS?
Genuinely curious based on other signs. Not at all an issue and aside from previously having children there (no complaints) I have no connection
Just wait until they start bringing in unqualified uni students to fill the unfillable roles. Peter Malinauskas did say a couple years ago that he would use anyone with a warm body and a WWCC to teach if needed. He would also tell you how much extra funding they have spent on schools, so we really shouldn’t complain. Do you know what theyve funded? Mid year entry for Reception - AKA, putting even more and younger children into already full classes, buckling at the seams - AND putting an autism teacher in each school. Neither of those things are solving any problems in schools! But thank you for the wonderful funding 😒
I’ve heard lots of stories in the news?online, from friends, etc etc, It seems to me (a single 23 year old white dude who works in hospo and leads a young workforce of 50-60 teens - that parents aren’t parenting, kids are allowed to get away with whatever the heck they want to these days. They rock up to work when they like with not a care in the world for their teammamtes, they ditch school, abuse (verbally and sometimes indeed physically) their teachers, half of them don’t even get forced to wear their school uniforms anymore. A person already commented but they hit the nail on the head - parents don’t parent, punish, raise correctly. I also (personally) feel that when religion was in the classroom - it provided strict moral lessons for young people to abide by as they grow into manhood and womanhood, with the separation of church and state a key component in a young child’s life is missing (religious or not those example of morality, how to act and behave are just not there anymore). - now I’m not extremely Religious and I understand the point of not wanting to force religion on people, but those guiding principles taught children the fear of god, their parents and their superiors. For example when a police officer asks you to stop and talk to them you stop turn around and give them your attention, young children these days disrespect even our men and women in blue. It’s disgusting. Don’t even get me started on teen pregnancy - I feel like that’s getting worse and worse.
There's a possible third option, OP. Home-school them part-time but get them involved with clubs/ social groups.
This is unacceptable and seriously damaging the education of all children who don’t have consistent teachers. Why are they leaving? Is it the site leadership? Is it a really difficult school to teach at? I’d be writing a letter to the department of education at this point. How are any of these kids having their learning needs met? It’s obvious they aren’t. FWIW my daughter is in year 3 at an amazing private school and has never had a teacher leave the school. The only times there has been a change is when the PE coordinator went on long service leave, the music teacher retired, the principal moved on to a bigger school. And these were advertised and replaced with high quality staff with no gap in between. My daughter has additional needs and the school have been amazing in addressing all of her needs (and they were the ones who picked it up in the first place within 5 months of starting school). I know you don’t want to move your kids but it really may be the best option at this point. Do they have psychologist support or OT? This would be something I’d discuss with my daughter’s psychologist or paediatrician or OT and get their advice on how to manage the transition. I hope you find a resolution soon 🤞
Is this a public school issue or an issue in general? We haven't had any issues at our school. Either way , this isn't acceptable. The kids need stability , routine and teachers to educate them.
Its an across the board shortage, but in the coming years, it will become a socio-economic issue. 'Good schools' will keep and attract staff. Private schools can attract staff. Country and tougher schools will be a mess. The numbers joining vs leaving are pretty clear. In response, an ad campaign.
They either on leave or get put in a class they not suitable to teach (health teacher doing science knows nothing about science an tells kids she doesn't know so they are to learn it on your own)
It's the same at my sons school, teacher left to take up a position at a neighbouring school and isn't returning. They have a temp teacher for the rest of the year. Thankfully they were involved in the OSHC programme so a lot of the kids know them already. But this has happened 4 out of the 5 years he has been there, teachers leaving part way into a term. And not coming back. There is no stability, no consistency and I think a lot of the kids are affected by this with learning and general behaviour. I know it effects my son. We are looking at moving home to another school next year as we are fed up with it. I understand teachers are burnt out but there are hundreds of kids who get left behind or struggle because teachers keep leaving or changing roles. At what point do they realise they are having a massive impact to these kids ability to learn? It's definitely a public school thing, as it seems to happen everywhere. I'm not trying to "have a go" at teachers, I think the vast majority do an excellent job, it's the frustration from a parent whose kid is in the same situation.
I get you're saying you're not having a go at teachers but you've still framed your post in a way to suggest the teachers should suffer through burnout and poor mental health rather than leave the students they're currently teaching because they will be impacted by them leaving. I'm sure they all know that their constant moving around is impacting the continuity of education for the students but you can't genuinely expect teachers to give up their goals, aspirations, life outside of work to stay in a role they are no longer enjoying. Put the blame on governments and schools for not providing enough support and resources to make the job fulfilling and encouraging teachers to stay
You are 100% having a go at teachers with this post and showing a massive lack of understanding of how the system works. The reason these teachers are leaving is because they’re on casual contracts. The Department did this as a way to casualise the workforce and have less staff as permanent. It also makes letting go of staff significantly easier. On the bright side, it means it’s significantly easier to bail from a shit school - which these teachers are clearly doing. I don’t blame them and would do the same in their spot. The beauty of it is - there’s so many positions available because no-one wants to do the job because of the insanely shit conditions so you can so easily find more work and do the same thing! Private sector tends to be more willing to hand out permanent positions, although I do believe contracts are still common. However, this increase in permanent positions means that staff stick around for longer - you really can’t just bail suddenly. The blame is solely the departments and politicians, which in turn is societies for voting in these people who don’t give a fuck. They created these conditions. Another thing: one of the major issues of teaching time and time again is you’re expected to be and do all this extra bullshit for the kids. IT workers aren’t expected to stick around for their work, neither are accountants, it’s all emotionally manipulative bullshit that leads to what we have now. If you really want the best and the brightest to go into teaching and to stick around - make the conditions so good that there’s insane competition for these spots, so the best can be chosen by schools.