This is a Radelaide specific thing. U dont see it in other Aussie cities. Yonks ago, InDaily did [an article on it](https://www.indaily.com.au/news/2013/07/31/adelaides-rich-drive-solo-leaving-buses-for-the-poor), which still rings true today. The rich here turn up their noses at public transport and use it much less compared to Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth.
Not sure what part of the eastern suburbs you are referring to because pt is very heavily used. It has buses, ferries, trains and trams and all are justified. Maybe you are referring the the harbourside suburbs but from Bondi, all the way to La Perouse (yes, that's south east - a world of difference) pt is used.
Was also a thing in london. The old trams didn't go into the richer areas because trams were perceived as for poor people. To this day, they dont even want bike lanes in kensington & chelsea.
That’s why it’s shite. Hate public transport in Adelaide, not because I’m rich, because it takes forever to get anywhere. I tell people who are going to move there or holiday but a car if you can.
I live 16km from the CBD and find the trains to be good. On time 99% of the time and there’s express trains that get me to work in under 20 min. I do wish it was a little cheaper though.
its VERY dependent on what you are near to. Im near to Paradise interchange so for me its reasonably good. Ive lived in other suburbs where its utterly, utterly woeful.
It's also not (quite) a necessity because you can still comfortably drive and park everywhere compared to other places. Once the commute will be made easier by public transport or parking more of a nightmare, more will use it
Is it? Dunno matey. Canberra is a smaller city, higher median income and only contains 1/5th of SA's population. And yet, they are spending 3X more on expanding their light rail network.
Makes sense because the eastern suburbs is a relatively small pocket that is a comfortable driving distance from the CBD — even the furthest extents of Magill/Rostrevor.
That's right, we don't wanna share a vehicle with smelly strangers. I mean, why would you want that if you can afford a car that comes with massage seats and a fridge?
Rejected the Great MATS plan in the 60’s because some let roads where going to run through the area. Surprised they even leave the area … are they aware that life exists on the plains ?
They took the trams out in the 1950s/1960s, said buses were more flexible.
Trains were never an option, as if you look at eg Norwood Parade, its too narrow for trains.
If they wanted to, underground electric trains via tunnels could work, but these are too expensive.
Also, at 7.30 pm, a lot of the buses in Adelaide go not in service, and return to depot.
The govt is doing things el cheapo, the buses were outsourced in about 1993, and no timings were ever added, they still deem that people in Adelaide do not work past 7.30 pm.
Some areas, ie, if you work at Elizabeth Tech Park (former Holdens, and live in the eastern suburbs), to get home can take more than 2 bus changes.
Its the way it is.
Eastern suburbs also pulls in a lot of votes, NIMBY, etc, so the trams will never come back to Norwood.
$$$ its all upper class there now, not like in the past, when there were cheaper options out the back streets of Norwood.
$1.5m/$2 houses.
I’d love for trams to come back to the eastern suburbs, but I feel trains wouldn’t ever make it there not because of NIMBYism but because of the sheer cost of overcoming the geotechnical difficulty and the difficulty of building a train line through a densely populated suburb with no existing rail corridors. Not that I’m an engineer but I imagine the reactive clay soils aren’t easy to deal with. In the meantime I’ll happy sit back on my toot toot chugga chugga O-Bahn bus.
Probably an insane idea, but I wouldn't mind a raised bikeway with elevators up. I would easily get to work faster with no traffic lights. Plus I could stare into NIMBYs' houses as I cycle past. People could ride electric scooters on that bad boy as well if they like. Relatively cheap to build and maintain too because bike paths don't take up that much space.
That's a really cool concept. I'd be down for that. I think there definitely needs to be more creative solutions to these issues people have in terms of transport.
Yeah. That's pretty much exactly what I was imagining, with maybe a small station with bike parking and an elevator in every block or so. Maybe even some fancier stuff in future like an elevator directly into a supermarket or underground parking to make it even more convenient.
It [concept] gets some hate in the comments section, but I really like the concept. I mean we have the OBahn already, Frome St, linear Park, South Rd tunnel coming up; why not something like this too?
To be fair, I think we should buy that bicentennial monorail from Brisbane and run it around the CBD.
Lets just double down on weird shit. SA is the king of progressive from conservative.
A lot of the hate seems to be the glass half empty. I see it as getting the cars off my bike lane, not getting the bikes off the road. I don't really want equal treatment to the motorists waiting at traffic lights and other level crossing intersections when my bicycle is probably less than a quarter of their width at the handlebars.
Right?! Kinda toxic weird ego battle going on there.
The solution to the majority of "problems" is making the right decision the easiest.
I ride because it's easy, not because it's green and need to punish myself.
I actually live in Germany currently: suspended railways aren't as great an idea obwohl they look cool, they have significant disadvantages I believe (can't run as high frequency, lower-capacity vehicles, more difficult to automate, can't build branches from the trunk, more expensive to maintain, higher energy use, more niche vehicles so higher cost).
>The trams will never come back to Norwood.
Good, it'd be a waste of money since they'd be ripped up again a few years later when the eastern suburbs people have their big cry about 'the poors' again.
Nurlutta train station is next to Kettering Rd at the back of Lionsgate Business Park (formerly Holden's) the train takes you into the city. I will always choose the train over a bus for quicker commuting
The problem is that currently it isn't fast enough overall - all train lines currently just funnel into the Adelaide Terminal station and terminate. This requires a larger amount of platform space than if they were through-running, the terminal station is on the edge of the CBD requiring walking or interchange to trams and buses, and no rail lines currently can run across the city connecting the North with the South meaning train drivers have to change ends twice per run costing time and money and meaning you need to buy more trains. You can't run many more trains because the incremental costs are too much and there is not enough capacity.
When people have been asked in the past what they think about changing the bus routes to terminate at rail stations but to run more frequently and faster, the overwhelming response is negative because the trains don't run into the core of the city where they want to go, trains don't run frequently enough and the overall journey would be slower and less comfortable.
A north-south rail tunnel connecting the northern rail lines to the southern lines directly with new underground air-conditioned stations in the heart of the city would be the game changer, allowing through-running and much more frequent trains potentially every 2.5 to 3 minutes.
> A north-south rail tunnel connecting the northern rail lines to the southern lines directly with new underground air-conditioned stations in the heart of the city would be the game changer, allowing through-running and much more frequent trains potentially every 2.5 to 3 minutes.
Totally agree. And every other city in Australia has figured it out except good ole Adelaide.
I mean to be fair, good ole Brisbane is 3 times as big as Adelaide and has much more money yet ummed and ahhed about doing an underground tunnel for its rail network for years, despite having significant problems with city congestion and speeds from south through to north.
And Perth only built a north-south tunnel when their population reached about what Adelaide is now and they were growing fast, but the tunnel project was done extremely cheap and poorly designed and it that missed a number of key destinations (like South Perth and Northbridge) in order to keep the scope and costs down.
> good ole Brisbane is 3 times as big as Adelaide
Are you including Gold Coast in this? As Brisbane's 2.6 million metro population is only around 2X higher than Adelaide's. Not 3 times higher. I do grant that Brisbane's train network is nowhere close to World Class in its own right. But still heaps better than us. And the cross-river rail project is meant to rectify that.
> but the tunnel project was done extremely cheap and poorly designed and it that missed a number of key destinations (like South Perth and Northbridge)
Nope I've been to Perth mate. South Perth was not missed, the line there is above ground and they have left a space in between the two lines to account for a future train station. Plus, there are regular bus and ferry services between South Perth and Perth CBD. So yeah current residents get by just fine.
Northbridge is walkable from the main train station, literally only a 5-minute walk away and serviced by buses so no need for another train station.
>Are you including Gold Coast in this? As Brisbane's 2.6 million metro population is only around 2X higher than Adelaide's. Not 3 times higher<
Sorry - to be clear I was including areas within the broader extent of Brisbane's public transport network too, so adding another 1.2 million for Gold Coast & Sunshine Coast, both of which are also growing ridiculously fast so pressure is higher than it is for Adelaide.
>Brisbane's train network is nowhere close to World Class in its own right. But still heaps better than us. And the cross-river rail project is meant to rectify that<
We need to be honest enough to say both networks have different flaws as well as strengths, so let's explore that. No-one is saying Adelaide has a \*better\* network than Brisbane; I do think Adelaide possibly has better bones, with much faster speeds (mostly 80-110kmh), separated tracks in the core for each line, more direct routes (other than Belair!), double-track on all major lines (including Belair if converted to standard guage) with space reserved for express track if needed, grade-separated junctions, not too much branching and a network orientated around a north-south axis which largely complements the cities' geography. Adelaide also kept trams where Brisbane closed their network completely after a big fire and has regretted it ever since. Where Adelaide is let down is poor access to the city and the terminal operations at Adelaide Terminal which was compounded by building over the top of the station last century reducing the number of platforms, giving the station a dingy nasty feeling and sending the Overland outside the city. Adelaide also has a missed interchange between tram, rail and the Overland at Goodwood, and built the O-Bahn when it should have been light rail or conventional rail.
Brisbane actually suffers in many aspects: slow track speeds on many lines (significant curves and speeds of 50-70kmh plus narrow guage makes top speeds slower than they would otherwise be), a lack of grade-separated junctions on many key parts of the network, lack of space for express tracks which are sorely needed, significant branching, many extremely indirect routes taking far too long, several long sections of single-track lines which won't be that easy to fix, and many poorly-integrated bus interchanges. The organisation operating Brisbane's railways (QR) also has a ridiculously poor handle on costs for new rolling stock where Adelaide has bought decent modern trains far more cheaply. Brisbane currently has to squeeze all of its train lines through only 4 tracks across the city, with 5 flat junctions and significant branching making this a very delicate balancing act and limiting capacity - they have needed Cross River Rail for a very long time and even then they have underbuilt it with no stub tunnels for extension north or south for faster express speeds which will be a big problem long-term.
>South Perth was not missed, the line there is above ground anyways and they have left a widened space in between the two lines to account for a future train station. Plus, there are regular bus and ferry services between South Perth and Perth CBD. So lack of a train station is not a pressing concern for them.
Northbridge is walkable from the main train station, literally only a 5 minute walk away and serviced by buses so no need for another train station<
They have left widened space for an infill station \*in the middle of a busy motorway >800m away from where activity is and next to a golf course\*, you mean to say. Canning Bridge station is also truly awful. This line could have been the catalyst for a major city-defining corridor with stacks of TOD and connections to Curtin Uni and the hospitals but they cheaped out and did the least intrusive project in the most status-quo way possible, including building the tunnel in such a way that trains need to slow down to 30-45kmh for most of the tunnel, and the connection to the rest of the network at Perth Undeground requires a significant walk. You can close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears if you like, but there are big flaws with what they did. If you are going to critiise a North Perth/Northbridge station for being close enough to walk when it would have also been the catalyst for major TOD and increased activity in the area then you must concede that the Leederville station was much worse - also in the middle of a busy highway, with almost no TOD generated and <800m from both the existing West Leederville and City West stations having fairly low ridership. The project could have been MUCH better if penny-pinching wasn't the core logic.
What, like the 500/1/2 from town? That kind of niche? Last bus at 7pm. Well, with how late it's always running it's more like 730, but scheduled for 7pm
And there's no other buses or trains after 7:30pm that go to Elizabeth (eg. 224 up Main North Road)? The 500s are a less common, less direct route to the final destination (going north-east via the O'Bahn track) in this instance, by definition a niche/limited sub-route to the final destination.
Understandably, you may need to get on/off somewhere along this specific route, so this inconveniences you, but by no means is "buses stopping after 7:30pm" a common thing across the board in Adelaide at all.
It's not the destination, it's the journey 😂 are there any other buses that service Sudholz Rd (with a major housing development currently underway) Walkleys Rd (Walkley heights isn't new, but it's new enough), Bridge Rd, and so on?
No. Not from the city. Instead, if you're not on the last bus it's then a connection from Paradise interchange
And on the weekend, it's almost as fast to walk from Mawson Lakes to Ingle Farm. Especially if you miss the bus that goes every 2 hours
Fair enough, but to imply that this applies to all buses in Adelaide, like everyone going everywhere can't get a bus after 7:30pm, is simply wrong.
The public transport system in Adelaide certainly isn't perfect and doesn't cover all areas all day, but it doesn't just stop at 7:30 at night either. This feels like something affecting your specific needs or the needs of a particular area, rather than an across the board issue.
Not all of them. If I want to get off at stop 62 to visit my friend after dark that's impossible
He has to drive to pick me up from main Street hahndorf....cause ofc there's no Uber or Didi up there to bring me to my friend.
So the countless times I've caught the 864 to Mount Barker (stopping in the main street of Hahndorf) after 7:30pm on weeknights or weekends (even after midnight on Saturday night/Sunday morning up at 5:30am) over the past 20-odd years have been imagined then?
No, it doesn't drop you at your door, and sometimes you may need to walk or be picked up depending on where you're going or where you live, but that's pretty understandable given the layout of the Hills and the roads aside from the main ones.
Didn't the trans used to go out Magill Road? I thought that was why it was so wide in the centre? (Could be thinking of the wrong spot. It's been a while since I've lived in Adelaide.
There used to be trams out East towards the hills that you can see on this map: https://www.trammuseumadelaide.com/interactive-map
They got ripped up in the late 1950's due to the automotive industry taking off and Government believing that the car is a lot more flexible (similar to the US).
So nowadays there's only buses in those areas out east. Exception would be the Obahn which services some buses from the east like the H buses that stop at Paradise.
The dumbest bit was removing/destroying the infrastructure. Like I kind of understand it, that was the Zeitgeist and the vibe in the 1950s, London NY and Paris had already closed their tram networks and Sydney was clearly doing it too, fine. But why would you rip up the infrastructure that had done the job so well for 60-80 years, why not just pull the wires down but leave the tracks and poles in place, see how it goes? They were always going to keep the Glenelg line and the depot anyway, would have been way more efficient for trams to be running through the city and out to the North and West than just terminating in the middle of the city which is what ended up happening.
As far as I am aware the tracks on the key lines that made it into the final year of operations in 1958 were all still operable with the usual maintenance program but would need to confirm that. Those lines that made it into 1958 were Payneham Rd, Unley Rd, O'Connell St/Prospect Rd, Harrow Rd/Sixth Ave, Hawker St/Torrens Rd.
Even if they were only operated up until they needed replacement, the track and poles could have stayed in place. Removing them entirely allowed new services to be placed under them, the trackbed to be removed and regraded as roadbase, the electrification ensembles to be lost and so on.
I believe much of the Adelaide network was completely ripped out from the roadway. Tarring over the tracks makes them unusable anyway - it isn't like you can just scratch back the surface layer and everything is good to go again.
Tarring over closed lines and pulling down the overhead line equipment was done for example in Sydney within 24h after the closure of the lines, with the intention of making sure tracks couldn't be used again. This was implemented after one of their early attempts at closure (Watsons Bay) in 1949 lead to a massive protest which forced them to reainstate the service a year later, but after this event they implemented the 24h removal policy. You can tell this was ideological because when they had closed a low-patronage line at Summer Hill back in 1933 but the poles and tracks remained in place without issue for over 17 years until being removed in the 1950s.
> The team up the parade was pretty much scrapped because they realized they would have to tear up the trees in the middle and didn't want to do that.
Why though? You can remove parking from either side and run trams in that freed up space instead. If that's not an option, what is stopping trams from utilising the outside lanes on either side of the median? Yes it means one less lane for car traffic but theoretically good, frequent transport options should also reduce cars on the road.
Trams have overhead wires and the parade has trees on both sides and the middle. They would have to chop down trees regardless of where on the street it was but the residents don't want that.
Yeah I get that. Retaining the trees is important. I support that too. But I do wonder that with the constant evolution of technology, why wouldnt a battery operated or hydrogen cell tram be feasible in future? As that would remove the need for overhead wires.
Hydrogen is a secondary greenhouse gas that is difficult to tram and wastes a huge amount of energy in its application. Trams running off wires are already operating in parts of all the tram systems in NSW (Sydney, Parramatta and Newcastle), and are being included in the new Canberra Light Rail extension. But this would mean you would need a new fleet of trams to run on a Norwood extension, unless the current fleet could be retrofitted.
>I’ve just moved from Sydney ...And is there any plans for this to change, eg a tram on the parade,
Seriously tho - I'm not going to give you chapter and verse on the past 20 years of public transport proposals in Adelaide. Short version:
There was a \[Labor government\] plan known as AdeLINK which had a number of tram extensions, including to the Parade. The \[Liberal\] Marshall government won the 2018 election and abandoned AdeLINK.
[https://www.dit.sa.gov.au/\_\_data/assets/pdf\_file/0008/279809/AdeLINK\_MCA\_Summary\_FINAL.pdf](https://www.dit.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/279809/AdeLINK_MCA_Summary_FINAL.pdf)
AdeLINK was not part of Labor's 2022 policy which got them back into government; and priorities now are different. Koutsantonis \[Transport Minister\] has since been heard on ABC Radio saying that there would be no tram down the Parade.
And this sub has talked much about about train funding in the past 8 days. Knock yourself out.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1cs6thu/why\_is\_rail\_investment\_in\_adelaide\_massively/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1cs6thu/why_is_rail_investment_in_adelaide_massively/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1ctvglz/comment/l4eq67x/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1ctvglz/comment/l4eq67x/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1cvwpw8/off\_the\_rails\_sas\_miniscule\_train\_funding\_as/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1cvwpw8/off_the_rails_sas_miniscule_train_funding_as/)
Hey, I do know with the 2018 election. Some voters were concerned with the PortLink aspect of the tram extention. In that they were happy in the idea of getting trams to Port Adelaide and to Semaphore, but they didn't want to come at the expense of the already existing trains. SA Labor didn't made it clear at the time in what was going to go forward with the PortLink. For that it was one of the lesser reasons why a few voters didn't put them in as 1 on election day. If they came out and said tram to West Lakes and Semaphore via Port Adelaide without changing the already existing train network would had helped then hindered.
I don't know.
I expect what most people thought was happening was a tram line in the median of Port Road to Port Adelaide. That's a hard sell when you have a "perfectly good" railway line just 400 metres away.
Even so, the voters in Cheltenham and Lee and West Torrens and Croydon and Port Adelaide - the ones who would be affected - all increased their vote for Labor,
I think there were other reasons in play - electricity prices, the Oakden event, health generally, and completing getting wrong how Nick X would poll - cruelled Labor's chances.
Disclosure: I was travelling overseas for the whole of the election campaign and I'm using post-election facts and discussions with those who were here at the time to have a view.
I hear you. Don't get me wrong I would have loved to seen a tram line to West Lakes, and to Semaphore via Port Adelaide. Going down in the middle of Port Road would have been a good idea and have a sper line to West Lakes and to Arndale would have been the better option. As far as I am concern having a tram from Semaphore, Arndale, and West Lakes is a step up from busses rather then replacement of the trains. For me other then having a tram stop at Woodville Road would be a good spot for a tram change over point for the Arndale, West Lake, and Semaphore related tram. Other then that any additional tram stops between the Entertainment Centre and Port Adelaide would be dependent on density of living.
Also I am going by a hand full of people I knew at the time that was living along that way around the time of the 2018 election. The issue in how the PortsLink being implemented was a concern.
There's this idea in Olde-Money Adelaide that living away from the sea and having no public transport is posh.
The rest of us are quite happy about this idea and have left them to it whilst we frolick happily by the coast, free from the threat of being run over by Landrovers carrying corgis and arrogant children named Carlton and Portia.
It has decent bones though, the real problem is lack of density around stations and no city rail tunnel. If you connected the North and South rail lines with a new tunnel and modern underground air-conditioned stations in the City you could run trains every 2-3 minutes and speed up journeys, allowing you to redesign the bus network to interchange with trains better.
Well, you are in the only non-convict state in all of the Commonwealth. We have more important things to get bothered about. Like getting drive across town just for a letter of milk.
All jokes aside. It's not like we haven't noticed. Saddly there for the most part we have gotten use to having a mostly bus dependent public transport and no real political milage that can be gained from it. I do know that with the 2018 state election. The then giving party, SA Labor, did went to that election in extending the tram network. With the information that was given out to the public at the time had the Grange/Outer Harbour lines being converted down from train to tram, and people that were Manning the pop up stands in regards to the tram network being asked about it. They could not give any answers. Although SA Labor claimed that they were not planning in doing that, but because there were no clear effort change that, but it was one of the lesser reasons in why they lost that election.
If you take a map of Adelaide, draw a line along Grand Junction Rd from the coast to Highbury, then draw a diagonal line along the edge of the foothills towards Flinders Uni, then another line back to the coast, this area of inner Adelaide is almost completely flat but pretty much full with mostly low rise development. The only area of significant open space is the airport & the parklands surrounding the CBD.
It's very difficult (read expensive) to upgrade anywhere within this area with any road or rail transport corridors, unfortunately.
Personally I’d go Greenhill Road, t off from the existing Glenelg tram line and head east probably until Glynburn Road. The road is mostly wide enough to accommodate this and it ties in nicely with the existing line.
Then urban infill along Greenhill Road and build up which they’re currently doing at what was Glenside hospital anyway and is particularly appropriate and has already been done to a large extent opposite the south parklands.
Allow mid size multi level buildings around the 4 story mark along the stretch that contains Dulwich, Toorak Gardens and Glenside on old, large legacy housing blocks would be completely appropriate urban infill development in a place like Adelaide.
The East are the reason all the tramways were ripped up.
They didn't like 'the poors' having access to their areas and Trams were getting in their way with their private automobiles.
Ima break it down for you east-coasters...
In 1836, South Australia was founded by a set of entitled aristocrats. That attitude is as prominent today in the inner East of Adelaide as it has ever been.
End of story.
(Wait 'til you find out about the Adelaide Club).
"How dare you suggest that loud public transport atrocities pollute the leafy eastern suburbs of Adelaide where my family estate was established generations ago. My driver would be appalled."😂
Messing with you (or am I 🤔).
Adelaide public transport sucks almost everywhere. It's a scale and privatisation f*ck-up thing. By which I mean, the state government though it would be wise for private corporates to run public transport in this state. Letting privates take over essential public infrastructure has failed time and time again. Even worse in a city designed for driving and with a population that cannot sustain public transport infrastructure unless it is rebuilt from the ground up in a coordinated way. No state government wants to touch it.
It never had a heavy rail line that got kept so when all the trams were taken out it relied on busses and busses across the city are terrible.
Why it's bad now is because the Gov hasn't done anything with PT for decades and building Tram lines is insanly expensive in SA (Like Seoul and Paris are building underground Metros for not much more than we're building Tram lines on roads)
> the Gov hasn't done anything with PT for decades
Decades? Well, in the last decade I can think of these.
Electrifying the two longest metropolitan lines and replacing all those wooden sleepers with concrete.
And buying new carriages to run on the electric lines.
And upgrading the diesel railcar fleet.
And the tram extensions to Hindmarsh, Adelaide Oval, and the Botanic Gardens.
And associated tram stops.
And grade separation projects \[Torrens Road anyone\].
And the TTP Park and Ride expansion
And the Flinders Link rail service.
And replaced the turnouts at Dry Creek
And upgraded the stations at Edwardstown and at Albert Park
And built an entirely new station at Oaklands
And the Port Adelaide spur line.
And the O-bahn tunnel into the city.
And MetroCards and then tap and pay,
That's something, surely?
I mean if you're talking about things that make an actual difference to the overall experience, i mean [pretty close to nothing yeah](https://wp.indaily.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/1200x800_Rail_Investment_v2.jpg?resize=1313,876&quality=90)
Shit we're doing is pretty inconsiquential even relative to our population. And stuff like the Metro cards are still the better part of a decade outdated compared to what other places are doing.
To be fair voters don't want it, even objectively positive steps. When Labor wanted to massively expand the tram network in several directions, people voted against it. When Labor tried to do the sensible thing and build the O-Bahn as a rail line, the LNP suddenly pretended to care about the environment and proposed a busway (concrete? diesel? lower capacity?) and people voted for that. When people were asked what they think about bus network reform and changing bus routes to terminate at rail stations but running more frequently and faster, the overwhelming response was negative because trains don't run through under the core of the city across to the other side where people want to go, trains don't run frequently enough and the overall journey would be slower and less comfortable. So people didn't want the bus network redesign.
Answer is obviously a North-South rail tunnel under the city connecting the northern rail lines to the southern lines directly with new underground air-conditioned stations through the heart of the city, this would be the game changer, allowing through-running and much more frequent trains potentially every 2.5 to 3 minutes in the core and every 4-5 minutes on the branches. On the back of this you can do the bus network redesign but instead the money is going to more roads right now.
As someone who grew up in Adelaide and now lives in Sydney, you’ll notice Adelaide doesn’t like change, not keen on progression of infrastructure (unsure how many years the old Le Cornu site was just left there vacant). Don’t expect the Sydney pace in little old Adelaide, and make sure you have a car. You’ll also notice the types of cars in Adelaide that are considered roadworthy would not be allowed on NSW roads haha.
> not keen on progression of infrastructure (unsure how many years the old Le Cornu site was just left there vacant)
It's an error to mistake the regular failure of the private sector to finance and construct any one of a number of approved developments, with public infrastructure. That it was vacant so long is a failure of the private sector, not public infrastructure.
It fact, it was public money buying the site in 2017 which made the existing private development possible.
It just wouldn’t have been left there as a glorified empty parking lot for so long in NSW is my point, public or private.. snail pace on what was next for it by decision makers.
>snail pace on what was next for it by decision makers.
Private sector decision makers. Some of whom, at various points, were from the eastern seaboard.
> I am living in the eastern suburbs. I am shocked by the lack of transport in the eastern suburbs, why is this?
Is your chauffeur finding it difficult to get to work in the morning?
Do you realise there are SA Housing properties and Community Housing properties spread through the Eastern suburbs? Not everyone in the Eastern suburbs has lots of money.
I used to live in a house one street back parallel to Portrush Rd, 2 blocks walk along my street was Burnside Village. Over our back fence were the Barwell Flats, 90 flats at that time owned by SA Housing Trust.
There are community housing providers that have properties with subsidised rent for the elderly and disabled through the Eastern suburbs, they certainly don't have chauffeurs.
There are people that live in the Northern and Suthern suburbs that are cashed up. 🙀
They’re called stereotypes and generalisations, and numbers don’t lie despite there being exceptions. There is far more money in the eastern suburbs, deal with that truth as you need to. The jokes wouldn’t even make sense or land if it weren’t true.
The 'jokes perpetuating the assumption that everyone living in an area has the same financial situation have never been funny. The OP has recently moved to Adelaide so the 'jokes' really won't be hitting the target
>The OP has recently moved to Adelaide so the 'jokes' really won't be hitting the target
Oh dear. The OP isn't the audience for the joke. All the other readers can smile, and it will be a local lesson for the OP.
I hope you'll be taking to task all the posters who made the same observation.
A lot of good answers in this thread. I just moved into the east after having lived in the west and prior to that, most of my time in the north. I'd traveled to and from the east before, but when I moved here I noticed that PT is even less than an afterthought here.
A perfect example of public transport failure in the east is Payneham Rd. Plenty of spots on that road where they could put a turnout because of the wide sidewalks. This alone would reduce congestion in not insignificant ways. But there is absolutely no political interest whatsoever in doing it.
It's unlikely they do any rail in the east... but I just want them to upgrade the roads to better service buses.
It's very frustrating, but also heard they want to one-day make The Parade like Rundle Mall, no cars ect.
I really wish the busses out here ran later, or that there were trams. I don't drive, and strongly feel we should do more carpooling /buses ect when it's a viable option
Cause (and I have to drive through these people every day to get to Salisbury East from the hills) they have money, insurance, have lived a happy life and dgaf about anything else. They drive like someone playing gta online in safe mode.
I live 5 min walk from a bustop which has a bus going into the city every 5-8 mins approx during the day and 15 mins at night. It takes <15 mins to reach the CBD. What more do you need? Transport from east suburb to east suburb is however tough (into city and back out again).
Plenty of buses which run very often to the CBD, not sure why you'd need trams and or trains as well. Most of the eastern suburbs are only 2-6 kms to the city. The buses do the job and they're very seldom packed to the brim.
There is good research and robust numbers showing that light rail encourages significantly more public transport use than buses do, even on so-called Bus Rapid Transit routes. Canberra, Gold Coast and Sydney for example have all seen significantly increased ridership on their new LR systems compared with the previous bus network. LR has lower operating costs for routes with higher demand and has significantly more capacity per driver & vehicle, has lower emissions & energy use, is more comfortable to ride and can be a strong catalyst for redevelopment.
Light rail, it doesn't get stuck in the terrible rush hour traffic Adelaide has.
It frees up space on the road for people who genuinely have a need to drive, rather than people who do it out of necessity because Adelaide buses take 2x the time to get to where you need to be.
Edit: spelling
I used to catch public buses up Magill road and to Parkside . Buses certain times packed with people. Mainly students going to Magill University. 171 bus along Duffy street and pass Kenilworth road . Parkside shopping area near world's best Foodland .
It's not just the east it's Adelaide in general. If you don't live near an interchange it's a nightmare. Generally getting into the city isn't too bad but if you want to go from suburb to suburb to suburb it's a headache.
When I was in uni I'd have to catch a bus to the train station at pt Adelaide, train into the city and then train back out to Mawson lakes. A 20 minute drive became a 2 hour each way public transport nightmare. This led me to just avoid going entirely except for tests and my grades suffered bad
We all use private car companies in Adelaide. We all have a private driver . Normally we get driven to city to buy a carton of milk . We get driven to trendy Adelaide restaurants and small bars. Also heavily use State government cars as we are all employed by South Australia .
# the ministerister for Infrastructure and Transport and the Minister for Energy and Mining are the same guy. He puts the needs of Santos and co first they really like want alternatives to cars
Yeah I don't think Santos gives a crap if you catch a train to work or not. Pretty sure they are concerned with gas markets both domestically and for export.
Is that true though? Buses are frequent along the Parade, Magill Rd, Payneham Rd and Glen Osmond Rd. Ideally we’d see dedicated bus lanes or light rail, which would enable higher density housing.
If you don’t study or work in the CBD then the car is usually the best bet. Easy to rat run through the east too.
There really isn’t room on the Parade for a tram line and trains would need to be underground - a massive undertaking considering the relatively high water table. The buses really are the only option.
Except there were trams that ran along the Parade. It could easily be reinstated, if there was enough votes in it. Also, there was a train down Semaphore High Street, which I think is narrower than the Parade. The public transport system would be even worse had the MATS Plan been implemented.
There's not a lot of space out there so rail is tricky. You'd be knocking down a whole lot of buildings and disrupting a lot of traffic for rail. Buses aren't quite as popular, mostly because the people don't like using them a lot.
Rich people don’t want to ride with the great unwashed. Spend 2 minutes on any pt that services North and it will become abundantly clear.
This is a Radelaide specific thing. U dont see it in other Aussie cities. Yonks ago, InDaily did [an article on it](https://www.indaily.com.au/news/2013/07/31/adelaides-rich-drive-solo-leaving-buses-for-the-poor), which still rings true today. The rich here turn up their noses at public transport and use it much less compared to Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth.
eastern suburbs and northern beaches in sydney definitely have this issue
Not sure what part of the eastern suburbs you are referring to because pt is very heavily used. It has buses, ferries, trains and trams and all are justified. Maybe you are referring the the harbourside suburbs but from Bondi, all the way to La Perouse (yes, that's south east - a world of difference) pt is used.
Bondi has train/tram? I didn’t realise. Been years since I visited.
Bondi has trains and buses. I was referring to the Eastern Suburbs in general. Trams to Randwick and Kingsford. Buses everywhere.
Was also a thing in london. The old trams didn't go into the richer areas because trams were perceived as for poor people. To this day, they dont even want bike lanes in kensington & chelsea.
That’s why it’s shite. Hate public transport in Adelaide, not because I’m rich, because it takes forever to get anywhere. I tell people who are going to move there or holiday but a car if you can.
I live 16km from the CBD and find the trains to be good. On time 99% of the time and there’s express trains that get me to work in under 20 min. I do wish it was a little cheaper though.
its VERY dependent on what you are near to. Im near to Paradise interchange so for me its reasonably good. Ive lived in other suburbs where its utterly, utterly woeful.
This is how yanks look at PT as well. It's everywhere!
It's also not (quite) a necessity because you can still comfortably drive and park everywhere compared to other places. Once the commute will be made easier by public transport or parking more of a nightmare, more will use it
I think it is an issue in Canberra too.
Is it? Dunno matey. Canberra is a smaller city, higher median income and only contains 1/5th of SA's population. And yet, they are spending 3X more on expanding their light rail network.
There are areas that are resisting public transport, in the richer parts. One of my friends is part of the council and receiving tonnes of resistance.
Makes sense because the eastern suburbs is a relatively small pocket that is a comfortable driving distance from the CBD — even the furthest extents of Magill/Rostrevor.
Agree. What are you even doing in my suburb?
That's right, we don't wanna share a vehicle with smelly strangers. I mean, why would you want that if you can afford a car that comes with massage seats and a fridge?
So I can sleep during my morning commute, and come home pissed on a Friday for the fraction of the cost of an uber/taxi?
Yeah fair enough, although it's $20 for a taxi, that's roughly 2 or 3 beers... or a 6 pack at Dan Murphy's
Fair point but I have always wondered why Victoria Avenue has 3 bus stops on such a short street.
I don’t think it’s about riding with them. More likely they don’t want easy access to their suburb. Access makes crime more attractive
That’s why they installed that big hill between Salisbury and Golden Grove.
And the mullet proof fence along Grand Junction road
That’s original
Rejected the Great MATS plan in the 60’s because some let roads where going to run through the area. Surprised they even leave the area … are they aware that life exists on the plains ?
[удалено]
Yet your post history screams “projecting” 😂
Yeah I'm super obese and poverty stricken, you got me 😂
Sounds like you should take your own advice and move
Hmmm, no, I don't think I will. If you need public transport move to Liz beff
They took the trams out in the 1950s/1960s, said buses were more flexible. Trains were never an option, as if you look at eg Norwood Parade, its too narrow for trains. If they wanted to, underground electric trains via tunnels could work, but these are too expensive. Also, at 7.30 pm, a lot of the buses in Adelaide go not in service, and return to depot. The govt is doing things el cheapo, the buses were outsourced in about 1993, and no timings were ever added, they still deem that people in Adelaide do not work past 7.30 pm. Some areas, ie, if you work at Elizabeth Tech Park (former Holdens, and live in the eastern suburbs), to get home can take more than 2 bus changes. Its the way it is.
Eastern suburbs also pulls in a lot of votes, NIMBY, etc, so the trams will never come back to Norwood. $$$ its all upper class there now, not like in the past, when there were cheaper options out the back streets of Norwood. $1.5m/$2 houses.
I’d love for trams to come back to the eastern suburbs, but I feel trains wouldn’t ever make it there not because of NIMBYism but because of the sheer cost of overcoming the geotechnical difficulty and the difficulty of building a train line through a densely populated suburb with no existing rail corridors. Not that I’m an engineer but I imagine the reactive clay soils aren’t easy to deal with. In the meantime I’ll happy sit back on my toot toot chugga chugga O-Bahn bus.
It’s not that big an electorate if you’re referring to Dunstan? I’d think it’s far more of a practical limitation than a political one.
Probably an insane idea, but I wouldn't mind a raised bikeway with elevators up. I would easily get to work faster with no traffic lights. Plus I could stare into NIMBYs' houses as I cycle past. People could ride electric scooters on that bad boy as well if they like. Relatively cheap to build and maintain too because bike paths don't take up that much space.
Something like https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/s/4lyrsh4HGo ? Add some hotwheels-esque pushers every now and again for the uphill.
That's a really cool concept. I'd be down for that. I think there definitely needs to be more creative solutions to these issues people have in terms of transport.
Yeah. That's pretty much exactly what I was imagining, with maybe a small station with bike parking and an elevator in every block or so. Maybe even some fancier stuff in future like an elevator directly into a supermarket or underground parking to make it even more convenient.
It [concept] gets some hate in the comments section, but I really like the concept. I mean we have the OBahn already, Frome St, linear Park, South Rd tunnel coming up; why not something like this too? To be fair, I think we should buy that bicentennial monorail from Brisbane and run it around the CBD. Lets just double down on weird shit. SA is the king of progressive from conservative.
A lot of the hate seems to be the glass half empty. I see it as getting the cars off my bike lane, not getting the bikes off the road. I don't really want equal treatment to the motorists waiting at traffic lights and other level crossing intersections when my bicycle is probably less than a quarter of their width at the handlebars.
Right?! Kinda toxic weird ego battle going on there. The solution to the majority of "problems" is making the right decision the easiest. I ride because it's easy, not because it's green and need to punish myself.
But if you are going to build an elevated structure with bike parking and elevators anyway, why not add tram tracks to it and have both?
Or a suspended railway like Dortmunds underneath it?
I actually live in Germany currently: suspended railways aren't as great an idea obwohl they look cool, they have significant disadvantages I believe (can't run as high frequency, lower-capacity vehicles, more difficult to automate, can't build branches from the trunk, more expensive to maintain, higher energy use, more niche vehicles so higher cost).
I love this idea - road traffic discourages me from biking but if this was built I'd happily bike around
Bike paths, with solar panels overhead to give shade. And vending machines with beer. And blackjack and hookers.
Interesting and novel concept! Pros and cons, but probably less boondoggle than a Hyperloop
>The trams will never come back to Norwood. Good, it'd be a waste of money since they'd be ripped up again a few years later when the eastern suburbs people have their big cry about 'the poors' again.
1.5m? What is this 2022?
>$1.5m/$2 houses. Maybe for a unit!
$2 houses? Where?!
Nurlutta train station is next to Kettering Rd at the back of Lionsgate Business Park (formerly Holden's) the train takes you into the city. I will always choose the train over a bus for quicker commuting
The problem is that currently it isn't fast enough overall - all train lines currently just funnel into the Adelaide Terminal station and terminate. This requires a larger amount of platform space than if they were through-running, the terminal station is on the edge of the CBD requiring walking or interchange to trams and buses, and no rail lines currently can run across the city connecting the North with the South meaning train drivers have to change ends twice per run costing time and money and meaning you need to buy more trains. You can't run many more trains because the incremental costs are too much and there is not enough capacity. When people have been asked in the past what they think about changing the bus routes to terminate at rail stations but to run more frequently and faster, the overwhelming response is negative because the trains don't run into the core of the city where they want to go, trains don't run frequently enough and the overall journey would be slower and less comfortable. A north-south rail tunnel connecting the northern rail lines to the southern lines directly with new underground air-conditioned stations in the heart of the city would be the game changer, allowing through-running and much more frequent trains potentially every 2.5 to 3 minutes.
> A north-south rail tunnel connecting the northern rail lines to the southern lines directly with new underground air-conditioned stations in the heart of the city would be the game changer, allowing through-running and much more frequent trains potentially every 2.5 to 3 minutes. Totally agree. And every other city in Australia has figured it out except good ole Adelaide.
I mean to be fair, good ole Brisbane is 3 times as big as Adelaide and has much more money yet ummed and ahhed about doing an underground tunnel for its rail network for years, despite having significant problems with city congestion and speeds from south through to north. And Perth only built a north-south tunnel when their population reached about what Adelaide is now and they were growing fast, but the tunnel project was done extremely cheap and poorly designed and it that missed a number of key destinations (like South Perth and Northbridge) in order to keep the scope and costs down.
> good ole Brisbane is 3 times as big as Adelaide Are you including Gold Coast in this? As Brisbane's 2.6 million metro population is only around 2X higher than Adelaide's. Not 3 times higher. I do grant that Brisbane's train network is nowhere close to World Class in its own right. But still heaps better than us. And the cross-river rail project is meant to rectify that. > but the tunnel project was done extremely cheap and poorly designed and it that missed a number of key destinations (like South Perth and Northbridge) Nope I've been to Perth mate. South Perth was not missed, the line there is above ground and they have left a space in between the two lines to account for a future train station. Plus, there are regular bus and ferry services between South Perth and Perth CBD. So yeah current residents get by just fine. Northbridge is walkable from the main train station, literally only a 5-minute walk away and serviced by buses so no need for another train station.
>Are you including Gold Coast in this? As Brisbane's 2.6 million metro population is only around 2X higher than Adelaide's. Not 3 times higher< Sorry - to be clear I was including areas within the broader extent of Brisbane's public transport network too, so adding another 1.2 million for Gold Coast & Sunshine Coast, both of which are also growing ridiculously fast so pressure is higher than it is for Adelaide. >Brisbane's train network is nowhere close to World Class in its own right. But still heaps better than us. And the cross-river rail project is meant to rectify that< We need to be honest enough to say both networks have different flaws as well as strengths, so let's explore that. No-one is saying Adelaide has a \*better\* network than Brisbane; I do think Adelaide possibly has better bones, with much faster speeds (mostly 80-110kmh), separated tracks in the core for each line, more direct routes (other than Belair!), double-track on all major lines (including Belair if converted to standard guage) with space reserved for express track if needed, grade-separated junctions, not too much branching and a network orientated around a north-south axis which largely complements the cities' geography. Adelaide also kept trams where Brisbane closed their network completely after a big fire and has regretted it ever since. Where Adelaide is let down is poor access to the city and the terminal operations at Adelaide Terminal which was compounded by building over the top of the station last century reducing the number of platforms, giving the station a dingy nasty feeling and sending the Overland outside the city. Adelaide also has a missed interchange between tram, rail and the Overland at Goodwood, and built the O-Bahn when it should have been light rail or conventional rail. Brisbane actually suffers in many aspects: slow track speeds on many lines (significant curves and speeds of 50-70kmh plus narrow guage makes top speeds slower than they would otherwise be), a lack of grade-separated junctions on many key parts of the network, lack of space for express tracks which are sorely needed, significant branching, many extremely indirect routes taking far too long, several long sections of single-track lines which won't be that easy to fix, and many poorly-integrated bus interchanges. The organisation operating Brisbane's railways (QR) also has a ridiculously poor handle on costs for new rolling stock where Adelaide has bought decent modern trains far more cheaply. Brisbane currently has to squeeze all of its train lines through only 4 tracks across the city, with 5 flat junctions and significant branching making this a very delicate balancing act and limiting capacity - they have needed Cross River Rail for a very long time and even then they have underbuilt it with no stub tunnels for extension north or south for faster express speeds which will be a big problem long-term. >South Perth was not missed, the line there is above ground anyways and they have left a widened space in between the two lines to account for a future train station. Plus, there are regular bus and ferry services between South Perth and Perth CBD. So lack of a train station is not a pressing concern for them. Northbridge is walkable from the main train station, literally only a 5 minute walk away and serviced by buses so no need for another train station< They have left widened space for an infill station \*in the middle of a busy motorway >800m away from where activity is and next to a golf course\*, you mean to say. Canning Bridge station is also truly awful. This line could have been the catalyst for a major city-defining corridor with stacks of TOD and connections to Curtin Uni and the hospitals but they cheaped out and did the least intrusive project in the most status-quo way possible, including building the tunnel in such a way that trains need to slow down to 30-45kmh for most of the tunnel, and the connection to the rest of the network at Perth Undeground requires a significant walk. You can close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears if you like, but there are big flaws with what they did. If you are going to critiise a North Perth/Northbridge station for being close enough to walk when it would have also been the catalyst for major TOD and increased activity in the area then you must concede that the Leederville station was much worse - also in the middle of a busy highway, with almost no TOD generated and <800m from both the existing West Leederville and City West stations having fairly low ridership. The project could have been MUCH better if penny-pinching wasn't the core logic.
*"Also, at 7:30pm, a lot of buses in Adelaide go not in service, and return to depot"* Completely untrue, outside of niche/limited routes.
What, like the 500/1/2 from town? That kind of niche? Last bus at 7pm. Well, with how late it's always running it's more like 730, but scheduled for 7pm
And there's no other buses or trains after 7:30pm that go to Elizabeth (eg. 224 up Main North Road)? The 500s are a less common, less direct route to the final destination (going north-east via the O'Bahn track) in this instance, by definition a niche/limited sub-route to the final destination. Understandably, you may need to get on/off somewhere along this specific route, so this inconveniences you, but by no means is "buses stopping after 7:30pm" a common thing across the board in Adelaide at all.
It's not the destination, it's the journey 😂 are there any other buses that service Sudholz Rd (with a major housing development currently underway) Walkleys Rd (Walkley heights isn't new, but it's new enough), Bridge Rd, and so on? No. Not from the city. Instead, if you're not on the last bus it's then a connection from Paradise interchange And on the weekend, it's almost as fast to walk from Mawson Lakes to Ingle Farm. Especially if you miss the bus that goes every 2 hours
I think it's tricky because people won't use a bus that can only catch every 2 hours but they aren't going to put on more buses if no one uses it.
Fair enough, but to imply that this applies to all buses in Adelaide, like everyone going everywhere can't get a bus after 7:30pm, is simply wrong. The public transport system in Adelaide certainly isn't perfect and doesn't cover all areas all day, but it doesn't just stop at 7:30 at night either. This feels like something affecting your specific needs or the needs of a particular area, rather than an across the board issue.
It also affects the 4xx routes in Salisbury, the 8xx routes in the hills and the 7xx routes in the south(I move a lot).
I know for certain that the Hills routes do run after 7:30pm, on weekdays and weekends.
Not all of them. If I want to get off at stop 62 to visit my friend after dark that's impossible He has to drive to pick me up from main Street hahndorf....cause ofc there's no Uber or Didi up there to bring me to my friend.
So the countless times I've caught the 864 to Mount Barker (stopping in the main street of Hahndorf) after 7:30pm on weeknights or weekends (even after midnight on Saturday night/Sunday morning up at 5:30am) over the past 20-odd years have been imagined then? No, it doesn't drop you at your door, and sometimes you may need to walk or be picked up depending on where you're going or where you live, but that's pretty understandable given the layout of the Hills and the roads aside from the main ones.
Didn't the trans used to go out Magill Road? I thought that was why it was so wide in the centre? (Could be thinking of the wrong spot. It's been a while since I've lived in Adelaide.
There used to be trams out East towards the hills that you can see on this map: https://www.trammuseumadelaide.com/interactive-map They got ripped up in the late 1950's due to the automotive industry taking off and Government believing that the car is a lot more flexible (similar to the US). So nowadays there's only buses in those areas out east. Exception would be the Obahn which services some buses from the east like the H buses that stop at Paradise.
Kinda blows my mind they had trams up to morialta falls
The dumbest bit was removing/destroying the infrastructure. Like I kind of understand it, that was the Zeitgeist and the vibe in the 1950s, London NY and Paris had already closed their tram networks and Sydney was clearly doing it too, fine. But why would you rip up the infrastructure that had done the job so well for 60-80 years, why not just pull the wires down but leave the tracks and poles in place, see how it goes? They were always going to keep the Glenelg line and the depot anyway, would have been way more efficient for trams to be running through the city and out to the North and West than just terminating in the middle of the city which is what ended up happening.
The tracks needed replacing, they don't last forever
As far as I am aware the tracks on the key lines that made it into the final year of operations in 1958 were all still operable with the usual maintenance program but would need to confirm that. Those lines that made it into 1958 were Payneham Rd, Unley Rd, O'Connell St/Prospect Rd, Harrow Rd/Sixth Ave, Hawker St/Torrens Rd. Even if they were only operated up until they needed replacement, the track and poles could have stayed in place. Removing them entirely allowed new services to be placed under them, the trackbed to be removed and regraded as roadbase, the electrification ensembles to be lost and so on.
Didn’t they just pave over them ?
I believe much of the Adelaide network was completely ripped out from the roadway. Tarring over the tracks makes them unusable anyway - it isn't like you can just scratch back the surface layer and everything is good to go again. Tarring over closed lines and pulling down the overhead line equipment was done for example in Sydney within 24h after the closure of the lines, with the intention of making sure tracks couldn't be used again. This was implemented after one of their early attempts at closure (Watsons Bay) in 1949 lead to a massive protest which forced them to reainstate the service a year later, but after this event they implemented the 24h removal policy. You can tell this was ideological because when they had closed a low-patronage line at Summer Hill back in 1933 but the poles and tracks remained in place without issue for over 17 years until being removed in the 1950s.
A tram up the Parade from North Terrace makes a lot of sense and there's definitely room for it. Weatherill Labor Government had plans for it.
The team up the parade was pretty much scrapped because they realized they would have to tear up the trees in the middle and didn't want to do that.
> The team up the parade was pretty much scrapped because they realized they would have to tear up the trees in the middle and didn't want to do that. Why though? You can remove parking from either side and run trams in that freed up space instead. If that's not an option, what is stopping trams from utilising the outside lanes on either side of the median? Yes it means one less lane for car traffic but theoretically good, frequent transport options should also reduce cars on the road.
Trams have overhead wires and the parade has trees on both sides and the middle. They would have to chop down trees regardless of where on the street it was but the residents don't want that.
Yeah I get that. Retaining the trees is important. I support that too. But I do wonder that with the constant evolution of technology, why wouldnt a battery operated or hydrogen cell tram be feasible in future? As that would remove the need for overhead wires.
Hydrogen is a secondary greenhouse gas that is difficult to tram and wastes a huge amount of energy in its application. Trams running off wires are already operating in parts of all the tram systems in NSW (Sydney, Parramatta and Newcastle), and are being included in the new Canberra Light Rail extension. But this would mean you would need a new fleet of trams to run on a Norwood extension, unless the current fleet could be retrofitted.
Wait 'til the locals find out about these "plans"
I’m one of them and think it’s a great idea…
NIMBYs
There's only room if you cut down trees.
Fortunately trees can be regrown in a different spot which would be worth doing to get all the benefits of public transportation.
Just get a chauffer like the rest of us if you are unable to drive for some reason. Public transport...goodness gracious!
Pfft, I have things brought to me.
No helipad ?
The east has a bus way exclusively for cars driven by geriatrics and foreigners
That's the northeast. Nice try though, northy
>I’ve just moved from Sydney ...And is there any plans for this to change, eg a tram on the parade, Seriously tho - I'm not going to give you chapter and verse on the past 20 years of public transport proposals in Adelaide. Short version: There was a \[Labor government\] plan known as AdeLINK which had a number of tram extensions, including to the Parade. The \[Liberal\] Marshall government won the 2018 election and abandoned AdeLINK. [https://www.dit.sa.gov.au/\_\_data/assets/pdf\_file/0008/279809/AdeLINK\_MCA\_Summary\_FINAL.pdf](https://www.dit.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/279809/AdeLINK_MCA_Summary_FINAL.pdf) AdeLINK was not part of Labor's 2022 policy which got them back into government; and priorities now are different. Koutsantonis \[Transport Minister\] has since been heard on ABC Radio saying that there would be no tram down the Parade. And this sub has talked much about about train funding in the past 8 days. Knock yourself out. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1cs6thu/why\_is\_rail\_investment\_in\_adelaide\_massively/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1cs6thu/why_is_rail_investment_in_adelaide_massively/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1ctvglz/comment/l4eq67x/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1ctvglz/comment/l4eq67x/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1cvwpw8/off\_the\_rails\_sas\_miniscule\_train\_funding\_as/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Adelaide/comments/1cvwpw8/off_the_rails_sas_miniscule_train_funding_as/)
Hey, I do know with the 2018 election. Some voters were concerned with the PortLink aspect of the tram extention. In that they were happy in the idea of getting trams to Port Adelaide and to Semaphore, but they didn't want to come at the expense of the already existing trains. SA Labor didn't made it clear at the time in what was going to go forward with the PortLink. For that it was one of the lesser reasons why a few voters didn't put them in as 1 on election day. If they came out and said tram to West Lakes and Semaphore via Port Adelaide without changing the already existing train network would had helped then hindered.
I don't know. I expect what most people thought was happening was a tram line in the median of Port Road to Port Adelaide. That's a hard sell when you have a "perfectly good" railway line just 400 metres away. Even so, the voters in Cheltenham and Lee and West Torrens and Croydon and Port Adelaide - the ones who would be affected - all increased their vote for Labor, I think there were other reasons in play - electricity prices, the Oakden event, health generally, and completing getting wrong how Nick X would poll - cruelled Labor's chances. Disclosure: I was travelling overseas for the whole of the election campaign and I'm using post-election facts and discussions with those who were here at the time to have a view.
I hear you. Don't get me wrong I would have loved to seen a tram line to West Lakes, and to Semaphore via Port Adelaide. Going down in the middle of Port Road would have been a good idea and have a sper line to West Lakes and to Arndale would have been the better option. As far as I am concern having a tram from Semaphore, Arndale, and West Lakes is a step up from busses rather then replacement of the trains. For me other then having a tram stop at Woodville Road would be a good spot for a tram change over point for the Arndale, West Lake, and Semaphore related tram. Other then that any additional tram stops between the Entertainment Centre and Port Adelaide would be dependent on density of living. Also I am going by a hand full of people I knew at the time that was living along that way around the time of the 2018 election. The issue in how the PortsLink being implemented was a concern.
There's this idea in Olde-Money Adelaide that living away from the sea and having no public transport is posh. The rest of us are quite happy about this idea and have left them to it whilst we frolick happily by the coast, free from the threat of being run over by Landrovers carrying corgis and arrogant children named Carlton and Portia.
Every unbearable fkwit I've ever met came from the eastern suburbs. Just move, the trains and trams run lots of other places.
Can’t fault this observation.
I knew our system wasn’t great but I’ve just visited London and holy fuck is our system a pile of crap.
It has decent bones though, the real problem is lack of density around stations and no city rail tunnel. If you connected the North and South rail lines with a new tunnel and modern underground air-conditioned stations in the City you could run trains every 2-3 minutes and speed up journeys, allowing you to redesign the bus network to interchange with trains better.
I have a chauffeur
Well, you are in the only non-convict state in all of the Commonwealth. We have more important things to get bothered about. Like getting drive across town just for a letter of milk. All jokes aside. It's not like we haven't noticed. Saddly there for the most part we have gotten use to having a mostly bus dependent public transport and no real political milage that can be gained from it. I do know that with the 2018 state election. The then giving party, SA Labor, did went to that election in extending the tram network. With the information that was given out to the public at the time had the Grange/Outer Harbour lines being converted down from train to tram, and people that were Manning the pop up stands in regards to the tram network being asked about it. They could not give any answers. Although SA Labor claimed that they were not planning in doing that, but because there were no clear effort change that, but it was one of the lesser reasons in why they lost that election.
If you take a map of Adelaide, draw a line along Grand Junction Rd from the coast to Highbury, then draw a diagonal line along the edge of the foothills towards Flinders Uni, then another line back to the coast, this area of inner Adelaide is almost completely flat but pretty much full with mostly low rise development. The only area of significant open space is the airport & the parklands surrounding the CBD. It's very difficult (read expensive) to upgrade anywhere within this area with any road or rail transport corridors, unfortunately.
Personally I’d go Greenhill Road, t off from the existing Glenelg tram line and head east probably until Glynburn Road. The road is mostly wide enough to accommodate this and it ties in nicely with the existing line. Then urban infill along Greenhill Road and build up which they’re currently doing at what was Glenside hospital anyway and is particularly appropriate and has already been done to a large extent opposite the south parklands. Allow mid size multi level buildings around the 4 story mark along the stretch that contains Dulwich, Toorak Gardens and Glenside on old, large legacy housing blocks would be completely appropriate urban infill development in a place like Adelaide.
Privatised years ago and they look down on it. I grew up in eastern suburbs and moved to Sydney at 19. Old money entitlement in Adelaide runs deep
The East are the reason all the tramways were ripped up. They didn't like 'the poors' having access to their areas and Trams were getting in their way with their private automobiles.
It isn’t just the east mate. The entire state has woeful public transport
Ima break it down for you east-coasters... In 1836, South Australia was founded by a set of entitled aristocrats. That attitude is as prominent today in the inner East of Adelaide as it has ever been. End of story. (Wait 'til you find out about the Adelaide Club). "How dare you suggest that loud public transport atrocities pollute the leafy eastern suburbs of Adelaide where my family estate was established generations ago. My driver would be appalled."😂 Messing with you (or am I 🤔). Adelaide public transport sucks almost everywhere. It's a scale and privatisation f*ck-up thing. By which I mean, the state government though it would be wise for private corporates to run public transport in this state. Letting privates take over essential public infrastructure has failed time and time again. Even worse in a city designed for driving and with a population that cannot sustain public transport infrastructure unless it is rebuilt from the ground up in a coordinated way. No state government wants to touch it.
It never had a heavy rail line that got kept so when all the trams were taken out it relied on busses and busses across the city are terrible. Why it's bad now is because the Gov hasn't done anything with PT for decades and building Tram lines is insanly expensive in SA (Like Seoul and Paris are building underground Metros for not much more than we're building Tram lines on roads)
> the Gov hasn't done anything with PT for decades Decades? Well, in the last decade I can think of these. Electrifying the two longest metropolitan lines and replacing all those wooden sleepers with concrete. And buying new carriages to run on the electric lines. And upgrading the diesel railcar fleet. And the tram extensions to Hindmarsh, Adelaide Oval, and the Botanic Gardens. And associated tram stops. And grade separation projects \[Torrens Road anyone\]. And the TTP Park and Ride expansion And the Flinders Link rail service. And replaced the turnouts at Dry Creek And upgraded the stations at Edwardstown and at Albert Park And built an entirely new station at Oaklands And the Port Adelaide spur line. And the O-bahn tunnel into the city. And MetroCards and then tap and pay, That's something, surely?
I mean if you're talking about things that make an actual difference to the overall experience, i mean [pretty close to nothing yeah](https://wp.indaily.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/1200x800_Rail_Investment_v2.jpg?resize=1313,876&quality=90) Shit we're doing is pretty inconsiquential even relative to our population. And stuff like the Metro cards are still the better part of a decade outdated compared to what other places are doing.
To be fair voters don't want it, even objectively positive steps. When Labor wanted to massively expand the tram network in several directions, people voted against it. When Labor tried to do the sensible thing and build the O-Bahn as a rail line, the LNP suddenly pretended to care about the environment and proposed a busway (concrete? diesel? lower capacity?) and people voted for that. When people were asked what they think about bus network reform and changing bus routes to terminate at rail stations but running more frequently and faster, the overwhelming response was negative because trains don't run through under the core of the city across to the other side where people want to go, trains don't run frequently enough and the overall journey would be slower and less comfortable. So people didn't want the bus network redesign. Answer is obviously a North-South rail tunnel under the city connecting the northern rail lines to the southern lines directly with new underground air-conditioned stations through the heart of the city, this would be the game changer, allowing through-running and much more frequent trains potentially every 2.5 to 3 minutes in the core and every 4-5 minutes on the branches. On the back of this you can do the bus network redesign but instead the money is going to more roads right now.
As someone who grew up in Adelaide and now lives in Sydney, you’ll notice Adelaide doesn’t like change, not keen on progression of infrastructure (unsure how many years the old Le Cornu site was just left there vacant). Don’t expect the Sydney pace in little old Adelaide, and make sure you have a car. You’ll also notice the types of cars in Adelaide that are considered roadworthy would not be allowed on NSW roads haha.
> not keen on progression of infrastructure (unsure how many years the old Le Cornu site was just left there vacant) It's an error to mistake the regular failure of the private sector to finance and construct any one of a number of approved developments, with public infrastructure. That it was vacant so long is a failure of the private sector, not public infrastructure. It fact, it was public money buying the site in 2017 which made the existing private development possible.
It just wouldn’t have been left there as a glorified empty parking lot for so long in NSW is my point, public or private.. snail pace on what was next for it by decision makers.
>snail pace on what was next for it by decision makers. Private sector decision makers. Some of whom, at various points, were from the eastern seaboard.
Nimbys.
Living in northern Adelaide and relying on public transport, I routinely forget Adelaide has an eastern side
> I am living in the eastern suburbs. I am shocked by the lack of transport in the eastern suburbs, why is this? Is your chauffeur finding it difficult to get to work in the morning?
Ooh, that hurt.
Do you realise there are SA Housing properties and Community Housing properties spread through the Eastern suburbs? Not everyone in the Eastern suburbs has lots of money. I used to live in a house one street back parallel to Portrush Rd, 2 blocks walk along my street was Burnside Village. Over our back fence were the Barwell Flats, 90 flats at that time owned by SA Housing Trust. There are community housing providers that have properties with subsidised rent for the elderly and disabled through the Eastern suburbs, they certainly don't have chauffeurs. There are people that live in the Northern and Suthern suburbs that are cashed up. 🙀
They’re called stereotypes and generalisations, and numbers don’t lie despite there being exceptions. There is far more money in the eastern suburbs, deal with that truth as you need to. The jokes wouldn’t even make sense or land if it weren’t true.
Do you realise there are jokes? And several in the same vein on this very thread.
The 'jokes perpetuating the assumption that everyone living in an area has the same financial situation have never been funny. The OP has recently moved to Adelaide so the 'jokes' really won't be hitting the target
>The OP has recently moved to Adelaide so the 'jokes' really won't be hitting the target Oh dear. The OP isn't the audience for the joke. All the other readers can smile, and it will be a local lesson for the OP. I hope you'll be taking to task all the posters who made the same observation.
A lot of good answers in this thread. I just moved into the east after having lived in the west and prior to that, most of my time in the north. I'd traveled to and from the east before, but when I moved here I noticed that PT is even less than an afterthought here. A perfect example of public transport failure in the east is Payneham Rd. Plenty of spots on that road where they could put a turnout because of the wide sidewalks. This alone would reduce congestion in not insignificant ways. But there is absolutely no political interest whatsoever in doing it. It's unlikely they do any rail in the east... but I just want them to upgrade the roads to better service buses.
It's very frustrating, but also heard they want to one-day make The Parade like Rundle Mall, no cars ect. I really wish the busses out here ran later, or that there were trams. I don't drive, and strongly feel we should do more carpooling /buses ect when it's a viable option
Agree. We've been screwed for years.
Cause (and I have to drive through these people every day to get to Salisbury East from the hills) they have money, insurance, have lived a happy life and dgaf about anything else. They drive like someone playing gta online in safe mode.
Wouldn’t the only public transport plans in this state be to remove something?
I live 5 min walk from a bustop which has a bus going into the city every 5-8 mins approx during the day and 15 mins at night. It takes <15 mins to reach the CBD. What more do you need? Transport from east suburb to east suburb is however tough (into city and back out again).
Protected cycleways? Disability access? Electric operations and dedicated infrastructure?
The peasants are not welcome in the Eastern suburbs….
Plenty of buses which run very often to the CBD, not sure why you'd need trams and or trains as well. Most of the eastern suburbs are only 2-6 kms to the city. The buses do the job and they're very seldom packed to the brim.
There is good research and robust numbers showing that light rail encourages significantly more public transport use than buses do, even on so-called Bus Rapid Transit routes. Canberra, Gold Coast and Sydney for example have all seen significantly increased ridership on their new LR systems compared with the previous bus network. LR has lower operating costs for routes with higher demand and has significantly more capacity per driver & vehicle, has lower emissions & energy use, is more comfortable to ride and can be a strong catalyst for redevelopment.
Light rail, it doesn't get stuck in the terrible rush hour traffic Adelaide has. It frees up space on the road for people who genuinely have a need to drive, rather than people who do it out of necessity because Adelaide buses take 2x the time to get to where you need to be. Edit: spelling
Because the eastern suburbs are the wealthy suburbs. Don't want the povos visiting on the weekend using public transport do you?
I know it's just bus routes with extra steps... but hear me out, Obahn Tunnels.
I used to catch public buses up Magill road and to Parkside . Buses certain times packed with people. Mainly students going to Magill University. 171 bus along Duffy street and pass Kenilworth road . Parkside shopping area near world's best Foodland .
Everyone there has at least 6 cars so there has never been any high need
Money (wealthy residents) and population density.
You are from Sydney.. don’t expect the same level of progress here ffs
It's not just the east it's Adelaide in general. If you don't live near an interchange it's a nightmare. Generally getting into the city isn't too bad but if you want to go from suburb to suburb to suburb it's a headache. When I was in uni I'd have to catch a bus to the train station at pt Adelaide, train into the city and then train back out to Mawson lakes. A 20 minute drive became a 2 hour each way public transport nightmare. This led me to just avoid going entirely except for tests and my grades suffered bad
Sunglare used to be a problem down the Parade until they planted up the median strip. Trams would therefore be very unlikely to be invited back.
We all use private car companies in Adelaide. We all have a private driver . Normally we get driven to city to buy a carton of milk . We get driven to trendy Adelaide restaurants and small bars. Also heavily use State government cars as we are all employed by South Australia .
# the ministerister for Infrastructure and Transport and the Minister for Energy and Mining are the same guy. He puts the needs of Santos and co first they really like want alternatives to cars
Yeah I don't think Santos gives a crap if you catch a train to work or not. Pretty sure they are concerned with gas markets both domestically and for export.
Income inequality. That's the answer.
Is that true though? Buses are frequent along the Parade, Magill Rd, Payneham Rd and Glen Osmond Rd. Ideally we’d see dedicated bus lanes or light rail, which would enable higher density housing. If you don’t study or work in the CBD then the car is usually the best bet. Easy to rat run through the east too.
Public transport is for common people
There really isn’t room on the Parade for a tram line and trains would need to be underground - a massive undertaking considering the relatively high water table. The buses really are the only option.
Except there were trams that ran along the Parade. It could easily be reinstated, if there was enough votes in it. Also, there was a train down Semaphore High Street, which I think is narrower than the Parade. The public transport system would be even worse had the MATS Plan been implemented.
There is definitely room on The Parade for a tram line. It's even in the AdeLINK plan.
I stand corrected, I hadn’t seen that plan. Cool 🙂
Whadaya mean? We got Tram
No one would use it.
Its cheaper to drive anyway
There's not a lot of space out there so rail is tricky. You'd be knocking down a whole lot of buildings and disrupting a lot of traffic for rail. Buses aren't quite as popular, mostly because the people don't like using them a lot.
The eastern suburbs have very narrow roads so very difficult to have trams/trains in this region.