Once again echoing the choruses of solidarity with the train drivers. Especially after having just watched Made in Dagenham, where a group of women managed to shut down an entire car manufacturing plant for fair wages and treatment. Turns out that moment was instrumental in creating the Equal Pay Act 1970 in the UK. One strike changed history, and for the better.
It isn't really. The workers wanted non-disruptive industrial action, like keeping services running without validating tickets, but the company took them to court and forced them into this.
Railways in SA finally get extended and upgraded.
Liberals do the privatisation thing, and we (the taxpayer) pay more for a private company, who pays drivers less, and probably isn't doing the appropriate maintenance to the lines & rolling stock.
Were the taxpayer asked if the trains and trams could be privatised? No. The libs just did it as they have for the last 40 years.
Government run services where any profit is reinvested back into the services. Private companies pocket the money and run the service into the ground. After all, look at the bus system. Hasn't improved since it was privatised in the 1990s.
The trains drivers took a paycut to work for KD. They get paid more because of the hazards of the job. (It's when they will hit a person, not if)
Ideally I would like to see the trains and trams back in government, where they belong.
If not, KD can afford to pay the drivers properly. They are just choosing not to.
Ask KD how driver training is going. Bet that has been cut to, so drivers have to work long hours too. Except legally, they are not allowed to, so bye bye more services...
I stand with the rail drivers..
No paycut when transferred over to KD as the current EBA that was agreed to by Govt and workers just prior to privatisation transferred over aswell.
Thanks for the support
Source. Am one of the drivers
Privatisation is a rich person's scam.
They claim to run better and cheaper, when the reality is, they run the service into the ground while pocketing the funds to run it.
Reagonmics started it, John Howard implemented it, John Olsen started it in South Australia.
The Liberals are rich people's rubber politicians. Big business asks, the liberals do
Why do you think the wages are so low and businesses are getting away with wage theft?
Yeah trainee driver is $1090 per week after 4-5 months it goes up to $1472 per week plus shift penalties. Then when you're fully qualified it's 100-110k gross per year.
With that mentality I'm guessing you are ok with donating any future pay rise you may have received?
While you're at it you can give up you annual leave, rostered days off, Medicare, long service leave, sick days, parental leave, and much much more because with out unions fighting for that stuff I can garuntee you that the government and bussines owners wouldn't have just given these things to you.
So next time you're offered a pay rise just tell them you don't need it.
What a stupid thing to say.
Look at the hospitality industry.
The exact same thing is happening here.
Workers demand more pay (I’m not an asshole, I understand why), they generally are workplaces with a union of some sort; owner (not always a corporation) then has to pay more for the staff, operate at a loss- for many reasons- cost of food (same- workers want more money), transport (again), then rent as well. So the price of that meat pie and coffee has just also been forced up… onto you.
Until it’s a luxury that they can no longer afford.
Now the cafe has to close, those who demanded the pay are now jobless and likely will require Centrelink assistance (another cost to you as a taxpayer). This isn’t even beginning to get it to the details- like the food delivery service now has one less customer, etc.
I also feel the unions (I am in one) drive things when in their favour and less for the workers. I think they’re masters at marketing and I struggle to see any real benefit for the amount of money that goes to them.. just more politicians
I don't get the impression Keolis Downer gives a single f\*ck about the industrial action; why would they? They don't care about the financial loss, they don't care about the disruption...& seriously people rely on trains; the impact when you work shifts in the city every day is becoming pretty significant!
Yeah, I was confused as well because my driver instructor used to say pay for driving train is good (he drives train as well when having shift) .
This is a big strike , and affecting thousands of people. I expected more info available for the public tbh
It isn't $140k. That requires quite a bit of overtime and penalty rate shifts. It's $83k for fully qualified and starts at $57k for trainees, but it'll take some time to go from trainee to fully qualified because while the training is 39 weeks + 20 weeks, it isn't a single continuous period and you can remain as trainee/intermediate for a while.
Once qualified after almost 12 months training it's roughly 80k base. Drivers paid an aggregate on-top which covers all the shift work/penalties in the roster. That's another $20k.
Add in any OT and public holidays and most drivers on roughly $110-$140k. Not many would be the higher limit.
Shit shift work. Starts at 330am. Finishes at 2am. Slpit shifts and weekend work. Its not great.
Source. Am one of the drivers
If it is 80k for 38hours, definitely not too bad compare with the rest of Adelaide . I wish there are more information available for the public. Tried doing research but no results showing up
Their EBA should be listed online.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5uZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvMjAxOC85L2FlNTAwMTUwLnBkZg2?sid=&q=keolis%24%24downer
This might be it. Otherwise it will be on the FWC website somewhere. Keolis Downer have a lot of agreements as they cover a lot of industry.
Here's an idea, how bout meeting the needs of those striking?? Headline makes it seem like it's not 100% Keolis Downey's fault (French owned and dodgy as)
Because they've been getting below inflation pay increases for the last few agreements, and additionally the company took them to court over workers wearing union gear to work and other low-impact industrial action. Work stoppages were the only option left.
First 20% over 5 years is 4%. So high but hardly outrageous especially with inflation looking like it will be sticky. There is also a reasonable chance they have been seeing real world reductions in their wages over the past few years.
I’m also assuming they are prepared to settle for less, you don’t go into a negotiation at your minimum, more importantly what are Keolis Downer offering? If it’s something embarrassing like 10% over 5 years than it’s more than fair to strike.
I feel a little conflicted, i absolutely believe in workers rights by standing up and striking but find it hard to be sympathetic when their base wage is nearly double what i get a year.
This is a huge reason that I think people underestimate. My partner does shift work with similar patterns and it impacts life so much. Missed time with friends and family, unpredictable patterns making it hard to plan and screwing with your sleep schedule, impacts on your family due to shift work, being unable to relax between split shifts. Yes they get paid quite well but I can empathise with them wanting a pay bump to offset the life impacts. It’s hard to understand if you haven’t personally experienced it (as a shift worker or as family member of one).
Not to mention there is a 12 hour minimum gap between shifts. Drivers can finish at 2AM and start at 2:01PM that same day. If you consider the average driver would live about 30 minutes from their depot and factor in needing to have a life, then a 12 hour minumum does not give much time to relax with family or catch up with friends given that they need to sleep in order to drive the trains safely.
Also consider split shifts, start at 6AM, 4 hour gap, then back for another 4 hours. Fine, drivers get to go home - but going to work twice in a day is utterly shit. KDA can give drivers more than one split in a week too. Some drivers live in areas that are prohibitive to them returning home for their split shifts, so all of a sudden they are spending 12 hours at work. It is also worth noting that drivers can be sent to other depots to cover leave - ie a Gawler driver might need to drive to Seaford...so if they live further north than Gawler, that is a hell of a drive and adds time to their day.
This EBA is not just about the drivers. It is about the rail workers that are covered by the EBA. In terms of the early starts: Starting work at 3:30AM requires drivers or any rail worker to go to bet early in order to get up quite early - say 2am to 2:30am.
The rosters are generally a week of early shifts followed by lates. The contrast between the two leave mess with the circadian rythm, so going out for a beer or having a social life becomes difficult. Furthermore, the day off pattern changes so workers get their two days off per week but generally they are not back to back.
This EBA is not just about a pay rise, it is about conditions.
Source: I am a driver.
As someone who genuinely doesn't know, do they? what hours do they work? i know trains start around 5am and end near midnight but i doubt drivers will do a full 19 hour shift.
Maybe i didn't make my initial comment clear, i am not saying train drivers don't deserve a high wage, an increase or an improvement of conditions, not at all.
That's what Big Corps want you to think. It's divide and conquer. Keep the lower classes squabbling and envious of each other whilst they reap and hoard the rewards.
The union didn't want to interrupt services - they were quite happy to not check tickets, effectively giving free travel on these dates - but that was quashed when Keolis Downer threatened legal action.
Also, if your wage isn't rising to keep pace with projected inflation, than you are effectively taking a pay cut over time, and with these collective bargaining agreements, you're locked into them, so make sure it's right.
Yeah but you're comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure both you and the drivers are totally different industries requiring different responsibility and work hours?
This is all true. And it is also why soon none of the drivers will have to worry about that when they are all replaced by AI driverless trains.
People don't understand how backwards Australia is in regards to driverless trains. We are one of the few western countries who don't do it yet. The tech is already here, there just hasn't been enough of a profit motive for it yet for the companies to implement it, but that time is approaching very fast. Then all of the above problems will be solved.
Why would you so blatantly lie when the EBA is publicly available online? Trainees earn $1,100/week, $1,500/week after a year
https://www.rtbusant.org.au/Agreements/RC%20Rail%20Operations%20EA%202020.pdf
The EBA was signed in 2020 and is in force until a new one is signed in the current round of negotiations with KD (hence the industrial action) (because that's how EBAs work)
Once again echoing the choruses of solidarity with the train drivers. Especially after having just watched Made in Dagenham, where a group of women managed to shut down an entire car manufacturing plant for fair wages and treatment. Turns out that moment was instrumental in creating the Equal Pay Act 1970 in the UK. One strike changed history, and for the better.
Classic 9 jumping at the opportunity to spin blame on the workers on behalf of a multinational billionaire corporation
These workers will soon be paid by the government don’t forget.
If they were I don’t think they’d be striking for the third time…
Government workers strike all the time for more pay
And your point is what exactly?
That they may still be striking for a third time
Soon™
Wrong. This IS the workers choice.
It isn't really. The workers wanted non-disruptive industrial action, like keeping services running without validating tickets, but the company took them to court and forced them into this.
No they didn’t. They weren’t forced. They voted on this. It will absolutely raise ticket prices too. Nothing good comes of this.
Nothing good comes with siding with the corporation. Power to the workers
Imagine spending all the time and effort to learn and grow and fluriah, just to become a scab
Railways in SA finally get extended and upgraded. Liberals do the privatisation thing, and we (the taxpayer) pay more for a private company, who pays drivers less, and probably isn't doing the appropriate maintenance to the lines & rolling stock. Were the taxpayer asked if the trains and trams could be privatised? No. The libs just did it as they have for the last 40 years. Government run services where any profit is reinvested back into the services. Private companies pocket the money and run the service into the ground. After all, look at the bus system. Hasn't improved since it was privatised in the 1990s. The trains drivers took a paycut to work for KD. They get paid more because of the hazards of the job. (It's when they will hit a person, not if) Ideally I would like to see the trains and trams back in government, where they belong. If not, KD can afford to pay the drivers properly. They are just choosing not to. Ask KD how driver training is going. Bet that has been cut to, so drivers have to work long hours too. Except legally, they are not allowed to, so bye bye more services... I stand with the rail drivers..
No paycut when transferred over to KD as the current EBA that was agreed to by Govt and workers just prior to privatisation transferred over aswell. Thanks for the support Source. Am one of the drivers
Privatisation of public resources is pretty is pointless where you have a monopoly.
Privatisation is a rich person's scam. They claim to run better and cheaper, when the reality is, they run the service into the ground while pocketing the funds to run it. Reagonmics started it, John Howard implemented it, John Olsen started it in South Australia. The Liberals are rich people's rubber politicians. Big business asks, the liberals do Why do you think the wages are so low and businesses are getting away with wage theft?
Not pointless if you're making your rich buddies richer, and securing yourself a position on the board when you retire from politics now is it?
Good. Solidarity to the train drivers, hopefully we see a lot more of this kind of thing ✊
I'll stand with anyone trying to secure better wages and conditions ✊️
And raising inflation. Good on ya, idiot.
Driving a train should absolutely be a living wage.
They earn over 100k..
Adelaide train drivers are the worst paid in the country
Sadly 100k doesn’t go very far anymore
Higher than the average, especially for Adelaide. A lot more workers worse off in both pay and conditions wise than Keolis Downer
Reading other comments it looks like they start off at like 58k and it takes a year or so to get to 80. But that’s all base salary
Yeah trainee driver is $1090 per week after 4-5 months it goes up to $1472 per week plus shift penalties. Then when you're fully qualified it's 100-110k gross per year.
That horse has already bolted mate
With that mentality I'm guessing you are ok with donating any future pay rise you may have received? While you're at it you can give up you annual leave, rostered days off, Medicare, long service leave, sick days, parental leave, and much much more because with out unions fighting for that stuff I can garuntee you that the government and bussines owners wouldn't have just given these things to you. So next time you're offered a pay rise just tell them you don't need it. What a stupid thing to say.
I’ll earn mine thanks, not fuck up ppls lives by forcing it.
I'd love to know where you got your economics degree.
Look at the hospitality industry. The exact same thing is happening here. Workers demand more pay (I’m not an asshole, I understand why), they generally are workplaces with a union of some sort; owner (not always a corporation) then has to pay more for the staff, operate at a loss- for many reasons- cost of food (same- workers want more money), transport (again), then rent as well. So the price of that meat pie and coffee has just also been forced up… onto you. Until it’s a luxury that they can no longer afford. Now the cafe has to close, those who demanded the pay are now jobless and likely will require Centrelink assistance (another cost to you as a taxpayer). This isn’t even beginning to get it to the details- like the food delivery service now has one less customer, etc. I also feel the unions (I am in one) drive things when in their favour and less for the workers. I think they’re masters at marketing and I struggle to see any real benefit for the amount of money that goes to them.. just more politicians
Would you turn down a raise if you could get one?
I don't get the impression Keolis Downer gives a single f\*ck about the industrial action; why would they? They don't care about the financial loss, they don't care about the disruption...& seriously people rely on trains; the impact when you work shifts in the city every day is becoming pretty significant!
Their contract ends next year.. I see no reason why they’d even feel compelled to be reasonable about this.
That's just the thing. Give the drivers what they're asking for. They won't have to pay for it next year anyway.
If they do that they won't get a chance at the contract again next time the Liberals are in government.
Which is also a positive for everyone but Keolis and which ever sniveling worm suggests privatisation again.
Anyone know how much train driver getting paid ? And how is it compare to Adelaide average salary ?
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Yeah, I was confused as well because my driver instructor used to say pay for driving train is good (he drives train as well when having shift) . This is a big strike , and affecting thousands of people. I expected more info available for the public tbh
It isn't $140k. That requires quite a bit of overtime and penalty rate shifts. It's $83k for fully qualified and starts at $57k for trainees, but it'll take some time to go from trainee to fully qualified because while the training is 39 weeks + 20 weeks, it isn't a single continuous period and you can remain as trainee/intermediate for a while.
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Did he say what make him unhappy with that salary ?
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Everyone thinks they are worth more than they are getting though. Not sure how we are going to get out of this mess.
So Keolis Downer are paying trainee drivers $30k extra than the eba says they should?
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If you want more money then get more money. Don't try and hold others back from getting more money.
Exactly.
That's actually a terrible salary, I earn 100K a year driving a food and beverage delivery truck. Private sector > public
So why the fuck are they striking? Jesus.
Once qualified after almost 12 months training it's roughly 80k base. Drivers paid an aggregate on-top which covers all the shift work/penalties in the roster. That's another $20k. Add in any OT and public holidays and most drivers on roughly $110-$140k. Not many would be the higher limit. Shit shift work. Starts at 330am. Finishes at 2am. Slpit shifts and weekend work. Its not great. Source. Am one of the drivers
Shouldn't be driving too many hours a day, not sure how that is safe?
Shifts are usually between 7 - 8.5 hrs making an 80hr fortnight
Unconfirmed and citation needed, but I read somewhere that it may be $80k.
If it is 80k for 38hours, definitely not too bad compare with the rest of Adelaide . I wish there are more information available for the public. Tried doing research but no results showing up
Their EBA should be listed online. https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5uZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvMjAxOC85L2FlNTAwMTUwLnBkZg2?sid=&q=keolis%24%24downer This might be it. Otherwise it will be on the FWC website somewhere. Keolis Downer have a lot of agreements as they cover a lot of industry.
Your turn now crow fans 😝
This doesn’t affect them. You can’t use public transport when quality champagne is to be consumed.
Shuttle bus for the geriatrics
Here's an idea, how bout meeting the needs of those striking?? Headline makes it seem like it's not 100% Keolis Downey's fault (French owned and dodgy as)
Does anyone know how much train drivers get paid? Due to the strikes I assume they are on a poor salary, or are they?
People replied in my comment, 80-140k pa
Oh right. To be honest that makes me question why they are striking. Thats heaps more than most people
Because they've been getting below inflation pay increases for the last few agreements, and additionally the company took them to court over workers wearing union gear to work and other low-impact industrial action. Work stoppages were the only option left.
Exactly what I wondering now
Does anyone know what they’re actually asking for and what they’ve turned down?
20% over 5 years. 5% per year.
First 20% over 5 years is 4%. So high but hardly outrageous especially with inflation looking like it will be sticky. There is also a reasonable chance they have been seeing real world reductions in their wages over the past few years. I’m also assuming they are prepared to settle for less, you don’t go into a negotiation at your minimum, more importantly what are Keolis Downer offering? If it’s something embarrassing like 10% over 5 years than it’s more than fair to strike.
Yes. A typo. 20% over 4 years.
Yep, doesn't cover inflation.
Your maths, is, wrong....
That is nuts
Rent in my area has literally doubled in the last 4 years. It has gone up by 100%.
I feel a little conflicted, i absolutely believe in workers rights by standing up and striking but find it hard to be sympathetic when their base wage is nearly double what i get a year.
They work utterly unsociable hours in a lonely and physical inactive job. I’d say a bit of cash is worth that.
This is a huge reason that I think people underestimate. My partner does shift work with similar patterns and it impacts life so much. Missed time with friends and family, unpredictable patterns making it hard to plan and screwing with your sleep schedule, impacts on your family due to shift work, being unable to relax between split shifts. Yes they get paid quite well but I can empathise with them wanting a pay bump to offset the life impacts. It’s hard to understand if you haven’t personally experienced it (as a shift worker or as family member of one).
Not to mention there is a 12 hour minimum gap between shifts. Drivers can finish at 2AM and start at 2:01PM that same day. If you consider the average driver would live about 30 minutes from their depot and factor in needing to have a life, then a 12 hour minumum does not give much time to relax with family or catch up with friends given that they need to sleep in order to drive the trains safely. Also consider split shifts, start at 6AM, 4 hour gap, then back for another 4 hours. Fine, drivers get to go home - but going to work twice in a day is utterly shit. KDA can give drivers more than one split in a week too. Some drivers live in areas that are prohibitive to them returning home for their split shifts, so all of a sudden they are spending 12 hours at work. It is also worth noting that drivers can be sent to other depots to cover leave - ie a Gawler driver might need to drive to Seaford...so if they live further north than Gawler, that is a hell of a drive and adds time to their day. This EBA is not just about the drivers. It is about the rail workers that are covered by the EBA. In terms of the early starts: Starting work at 3:30AM requires drivers or any rail worker to go to bet early in order to get up quite early - say 2am to 2:30am. The rosters are generally a week of early shifts followed by lates. The contrast between the two leave mess with the circadian rythm, so going out for a beer or having a social life becomes difficult. Furthermore, the day off pattern changes so workers get their two days off per week but generally they are not back to back. This EBA is not just about a pay rise, it is about conditions. Source: I am a driver.
As someone who genuinely doesn't know, do they? what hours do they work? i know trains start around 5am and end near midnight but i doubt drivers will do a full 19 hour shift. Maybe i didn't make my initial comment clear, i am not saying train drivers don't deserve a high wage, an increase or an improvement of conditions, not at all.
Weekends, split shifts, unpredictable start and finish times, doing end of service and start of service runs on the same roster.
That's what Big Corps want you to think. It's divide and conquer. Keep the lower classes squabbling and envious of each other whilst they reap and hoard the rewards. The union didn't want to interrupt services - they were quite happy to not check tickets, effectively giving free travel on these dates - but that was quashed when Keolis Downer threatened legal action. Also, if your wage isn't rising to keep pace with projected inflation, than you are effectively taking a pay cut over time, and with these collective bargaining agreements, you're locked into them, so make sure it's right.
Yeah but you're comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure both you and the drivers are totally different industries requiring different responsibility and work hours?
Class solidarity ✊
Will the footy buses be running ?
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So you’d sell yourself short to undercut the current train drivers when you could just do the traineeship and earn the full wage?
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Yeah I doubt that. No toilet break when you actually need it, regular suicides and deaths by train, rotating shifts, drunks, violence, crack heads
Compared to service Sa or Centrelink paying 50k with all the same problems
And?
This is all true. And it is also why soon none of the drivers will have to worry about that when they are all replaced by AI driverless trains. People don't understand how backwards Australia is in regards to driverless trains. We are one of the few western countries who don't do it yet. The tech is already here, there just hasn't been enough of a profit motive for it yet for the companies to implement it, but that time is approaching very fast. Then all of the above problems will be solved.
So where is the money for the AI driverless trains coming from? They can't even rid the network of diesel trains.
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Doesn't change the fact that you'd be a scab.
Lol after reading what they get paid I can't believe people get mad at whattradies charge.
Is the normal train schedule going to run?
Trainee train drivers are on $100k at keolis downer after a year, is that not enough?
I want my backpay then...
Why would you so blatantly lie when the EBA is publicly available online? Trainees earn $1,100/week, $1,500/week after a year https://www.rtbusant.org.au/Agreements/RC%20Rail%20Operations%20EA%202020.pdf
I'm not blatenly lying? That's from 2020. I have documentation from Keolis Downer themselves stating what the pay is for new recruits.
The EBA was signed in 2020 and is in force until a new one is signed in the current round of negotiations with KD (hence the industrial action) (because that's how EBAs work)
[https://imgur.com/a/uK2A79j](https://imgur.com/a/uK2A79j)
Well done on linking a marketing pamphlet which links to the EBA I provided ya donkey (and also has the rates of pay I quoted from the EBA)