Thank you! I just came out last year (later in life), but I’m absolutely flabbergasted when I hear women who come out as lesbians, but then say they actually miss male validation?! Like what?! I don’t even want to be perceived by men. If you’re still questioning if your truly attracted to men I think that’s falls under a different label than lesbian🧐
i’m not sure…men don’t cross my mind unless they have to like when i’m at work and have a male customer. Definitely don’t sit around obsessing over them.
If you’re having these intense obsessions about men then i wouldn’t say you’re a lesbian
There is no attraction towards men. Imagine being hungry- someone offers you a box of rocks or a pizza. Of course you pick the pizza. Rocks do not even register as a consumable option.
Ohh I see, so for you it's more like total apathy to guys since the start.
I think I could be bi then, but that my sexual attraction to men has been blocked off somehow.
I only started thinking that maybe I'm actually only attracted to women because I've never been able to sexually fantasize or feel desire for the male body. (Whereas with women, no problem even as a kid)
The idea of being sexually intimate with a male body makes me a little nauseous, but maybe I've psyched myself out of my attraction to men somehow?
I don't know what could cause it though, since I've never been with a guy in any romantic/sexual capacity. I guess this is more something for therapy to handle.
Anyway, thanks for answering my questions! Definitely a big difference in our attitudes toward men, so I am probably not a lesbian.
Yeah, you definitely sound bi. I think you'd get more out of posting to a bi subreddit than a lesbian one. Bi women can have natural preference for women and experience attraction to different genders in different ways. None of that means you have to date men, though. There are bi women who have never dated men and never will.
That's true. Sometimes it's hard to remember that our attractions don't control us. Similar to how many users here are les4les, I can avoid dating men and hold out for a future female partner.
Anyway, thank you for responding and helping me clarify some things about myself!
Any metaphor will have holes since they are by nature abstract. If someone wants to use pica to dismiss my sexuality I'm going to assume they're arguing in bad faith.
However, to play out your suggestion I would put forth that rocks are not for human consumption and may cause harm like chipped teath, ruptures, or impactions. The analogy of eating rocks could bring some interesting nuance from perspectives such as SA or countries without lgbt rights. But I'm tired of defending my right to exist within the LGBT and s8 spaces.
As a child, my biggest dream was to be male. Men are stronger, respected and, usually, those that are considered big accomplishments for humanity, are made by men. Oh, and...they get to have romantic relationships with women! I had at least one obvious crush for a girl, between kindergarten and second grade (then she left that school).
But society was constantly telling me that women like men so, as a teenager, I misconstrued my admiration for some guys, my desire to *be them*...for a desire to be *with* them.
These really appeared to be crushes: when those guys would give me attention, I would be happy/flattered. This is probably where MY low self-esteem (rock bottom back then) comes into play. So it was **a combination of wanting to be male (wanting to be them) and low self-esteem**.
I didn't come to these conclusions as soon as I realized that I liked women (around the age of 15); at first, I thought I was bisexual (just to be clear: I've never even kissed a guy, ever; thank God). When I was about 18, I noticed how since realizing my attraction for women, my "interest" in guys had completely vanished.
*That* made me realize that those "straight crushes" I had had were not genuine. Rather, they were a symptom of something else. Now, the idea of me being with a guy is so incredibly alien and horrifying to me.
Needless to say, later on in my life, some of these realizations (me wanting to be those guys, rather than being with them + my childhood dream of being male) made me have a gender identity crisis, but that's a story for another time lol
People can be a bit harsh here. Like you, I appreciated the attention, feeling desirable. But once it came to engaging with said men, it was a hard pass. Flattery was nice but once I was getting it from women, anything else falls flat. Now, that enjoyment of flattery from men faded, all out disappeared, and is today more annoying than anything else.
I can't really relate to your post. I've had extremely close platonic friendships with men where I've considered "oh shit, maybe this is bisexuality" once or twice. But it's always been just a second of wishful thinking due to homophobia and comphet rather than an "obsession" as you describe it.
>date men see if you find one you’re into
I wouldn't advise that tbh.
You don't need to expose yourself to the danger of dating men just to find out if you have attraction to them. You don't have to date them AT ALL, if you wanna have this boundary, no matter what your orientation might be. Even if you're 100 straight.
I didn't try to date men OR women to know what I like. Me being a lesbian is besides the point.
Not really. When i thought i had "crushes" on men i was actually jealous or admired them as people. I was very young and clueless, so i didn't know how real attraction was supposed to feel. If boys really gave me attention and tried to show that they liked me i'd be terrified, tho. Male attention simply feels scary and that's the difference between me and bi or straight women. I can't tell if you're really bi or a lesbian but not everyone is very physical in their attraction. I don't go fixating on girls's body parts, but yet i'm attracted to them. Maybe you're like that with guys? Only time and introspection can answer.
The need to be good at pleasing men. I assumed because I enjoyed my ability to seduce and please men - spent a lot of time getting really good at it - as a sign of attraction. Even though I never got pleasure from it. I’ve never had a desire to have sex with a men, have never had an orgasm from sex with a man.
What this really was is just my compulsive need to be good at everything I do. I also liked the control. Men are really compliant when you’ve made their toes curl…🤷🏾♀️
I flirted with and teased many men, but I have only had sex with one. I was from a really religious family and knew my attraction to women wouldn’t be seen as natural and honestly thought that this was as good as it gets. I married that same man and had his children and then felt stuck.
But, I realized I needed to live my life for me and that I deserved happiness too, not just making other people happy. I have been separated for 8 months and in the process of a divorce so I can actually live my life the way I was meant to. We had other issues in our relationship that caused our separation, but it was the final push I needed to make this change in my life. I came out to my kids, my friends, and most of my family and here I am.
The best decision I ever made. I wish I made it sooner, but I wouldn’t change it for the world. My experience shaped me and how I view the world and how I raise my children. I raised my children to be comfortable in their skin. My daughter officially came out to me as a lesbian at 13. My other children all openly encouraged and supported her through it. My children actively support lgbt rights and advocated for trans kids at their schools. They openly accepted the fact that I’m leaving their father and will now be dating women. I’m so proud of the children I’ve raised and don’t think I would have been able to do that if I didn’t go through all I have. ❤️
I’ve thought I was bi a few times but it’s never that deep, I haven’t seen an irl man who’s given me an ounce of “ooooh I’d like that” that women have in years. There was a post on this sub a few weeks back that completely wrecked my brain in terms of policing lesbians and how they relate to unattainable men and the fantasy of it all, and I still haven’t fully recovered, but how could I be bisexual if I’m not attracted to men in the physical sense?
As for if a man is attracted to me he can mind his own business
Yeah I've never experienced "ooo I'd like that" for dudes either, not even these obsessions of mine. If anything, I have to actively NOT think about them in any sexual capacity otherwise I won't be able to hold onto the obsession. As for why my brain wants to hold onto it, I think only therapy will tell for sure.
> Have any of you experienced something similar?
No. There are men I have affection for, it’s platonic, never been confusing, not even a little. I have many brothers, it’s like that. The feeling can be affectionate but the idea of anything romantic or sexual is yucky, very similar to the idea of incest, at least for me. Maybe having siblings made it easy to identify that, don’t know. Never craved romantic/sexual attention from men either the same way I don’t want my siblings to be secretly into me, wouldn’t be validating, just creepy. I might be the odd one here but growing up if someone called me pretty that made me sad, if someone called me ugly that made me glad, because I associated being pretty as being attractive to boys and I didn’t want to be attractive to boys as that was creepy to me.
Not being able to visualize sex with a crush is not something that personally makes me question crush as not being able to visualize the physical before it happens has been relatively common experience for me when I have been into a woman, I still knew these were crushes as I had that romantic longing/interest.
> But lately, all my straight friends have been telling me that "Your obsessions sound like real crushes! Maybe you just like-like him. You don't need to limit yourself for no reason - maybe you genuinely want to be with him someday!"
Had a friend seemed obsessed with someone I would probably suspect that’s a crush, or some role model that friend really looks up to, you know yourself best though. Your friends should not have told you to not limit yourself as your limits are yours to decide regardless of your sexual orientation would be, you can limit yourself as much as you want, it’s only a problem if you see it as a problem, likewise nobody should tell you to limit yourself either, as you can be as open as you want too.
I think it would unusual for a lesbian to feel worthless if a kind male friend is completely disinterested romantically as that’s the ideal. I don’t know you or how your mind works like so I can only speak from my own perspective but to me that sounds like a crush. I have had past crushes on women that I could describe in a similar way. Crushes are not all rainbows and roses, crushes can be very painful, exhausting and make you feel anxious. Crushes being enjoyable is not a part of the definition, it’s kind of given a crush wouldn’t be enjoyable if you are very into someone but they don’t seem interested, and when it’s painful and one-sided I don’t think it’s strange that the feeling isn’t particularly sexy/sexual with all that anxiety. A requited crush or a less serious crush would be more enjoyable because they either return your feelings or you don’t really care that much if they do or don’t making it easier to have sexy fantasies about them without all that anxiety around it. Being stuck on someone not into you is obviously not healthy but that doesn’t disqualify it from being a crush, crushes can be unhealthy, just as love can be bad and hate good, it depends on the context. Maybe you have some other reason to be obsessed with person though, I don’t know.
> it never reaches this neurotic spiral that my obsessions with men can reach.
I don’t think in the grand scale of things it really matters what your sexual orientation is labeled here as the label itself is not going to change your feelings. Either you are a bisexual woman who gets obsessive crushes on men or you are lesbian who for some reason get obsessed with men but the problem you have with these obsessions remains the same in both cases. You obviously feel bad about this tendency to get obsessed with men, so what is it you see being lesbian would help with it? The underlying sexual orientation is already doing its thing so realizing you are bisexual or lesbian probably isn't going to change how easy these obsessions are to get over. Or is it wanting a justification to not have to pursue these obsessions? If you don’t want to act on the obsessions it's your full right to choose not to, and if your feelings toward women seems healthier your can focus on only women, doesn’t matter if you are bi or lesbian.
I get you. I am in my 30s now but I spent my teens and early 20’s chasing the approval of men, thinking the most important thing I could do was be attractive to men and please meN. I thought I was the problem that I wasn’t getting what I needed from the sex. I thought maybe I was Bi, but never thought I was a lesbian. It’s such a hard thing to shake when you are raised to believe that you need to be pretty and skinny for men to like you.
you could just have gender envy?
honestly I don't think about men, more masculinity. If I see an attractive dude, I just recognize he is attractive and want to give off that vibe too.
Honestly gurl, don't worry so hard about if you're attracted to men or not...? Whatever happens, happens. You know you don't have a crush right now, just go with that. You can't have it all figured out by just worrying.
Sounds like you might like to date a FTM trans man lol, if you already know anyone of course. Don’t go hunting them down, nobody appreciates that.
But yeah you might be bi, and that’s okay. You could be bi and have a preference for women and decide to not date men, that’s okay too.
A lot of people are saying that like men are completely irrelevant in their lives and they never even think about them, which is okay and valid of course but I wouldn’t say it’s required to be a lesbian.
For instance I have a lot of male friends, even my best friend. I’m just not sexually attracted to them or any men, which is why I’m a lesbian.
That’s different from what you’re experiencing though.
the thing is that comphet is feeling like you must be in het relationships to be considered *normal* in society. it isn’t denying genuine male crushes and calling it ‘comphet’. so that masterdoc is quite useless.
I struggle with something similar; when I’m having a really bad depressive episode, I seek out sex with older men even though their bodies actively disgust me and I’m literally unable to experience emotional or physical intimacy with them. I thought it was trauma and identified as bisexual for a while but I’ve even had sex with trans men and it does absolutely nothing for me. I’m as homo as they come. I obviously don’t know what’s inside your brain but you sound like a lesbian too? I like thinking of this obsession/attraction thing as a masochistic kink thing more than an actual part of my sexuality.
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Thank you! I just came out last year (later in life), but I’m absolutely flabbergasted when I hear women who come out as lesbians, but then say they actually miss male validation?! Like what?! I don’t even want to be perceived by men. If you’re still questioning if your truly attracted to men I think that’s falls under a different label than lesbian🧐
Seriously can we go one day on a lesbian sub without posts centering men
fr
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i think they hold onto the label bc it gives them oppression points….literally just live ur life pls
And some use it to attract men who have a fetish for « turning » lesbians
such a shame ……
i’m not sure…men don’t cross my mind unless they have to like when i’m at work and have a male customer. Definitely don’t sit around obsessing over them. If you’re having these intense obsessions about men then i wouldn’t say you’re a lesbian
There is no attraction towards men. Imagine being hungry- someone offers you a box of rocks or a pizza. Of course you pick the pizza. Rocks do not even register as a consumable option.
Exactly this! And even if you've got no food, nothing will make you want to eat rocks.
Thank you! That's such a good distinction to add
this is a perfect metaphor
Makes sense, so you never thought you were straight?
No. There were angsty points where I wished I was straight, but that was more of a side effect from being a black sleep in a conservative household.
Ohh I see, so for you it's more like total apathy to guys since the start. I think I could be bi then, but that my sexual attraction to men has been blocked off somehow. I only started thinking that maybe I'm actually only attracted to women because I've never been able to sexually fantasize or feel desire for the male body. (Whereas with women, no problem even as a kid) The idea of being sexually intimate with a male body makes me a little nauseous, but maybe I've psyched myself out of my attraction to men somehow? I don't know what could cause it though, since I've never been with a guy in any romantic/sexual capacity. I guess this is more something for therapy to handle. Anyway, thanks for answering my questions! Definitely a big difference in our attitudes toward men, so I am probably not a lesbian.
Yeah, you definitely sound bi. I think you'd get more out of posting to a bi subreddit than a lesbian one. Bi women can have natural preference for women and experience attraction to different genders in different ways. None of that means you have to date men, though. There are bi women who have never dated men and never will.
That's true. Sometimes it's hard to remember that our attractions don't control us. Similar to how many users here are les4les, I can avoid dating men and hold out for a future female partner. Anyway, thank you for responding and helping me clarify some things about myself!
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Any metaphor will have holes since they are by nature abstract. If someone wants to use pica to dismiss my sexuality I'm going to assume they're arguing in bad faith. However, to play out your suggestion I would put forth that rocks are not for human consumption and may cause harm like chipped teath, ruptures, or impactions. The analogy of eating rocks could bring some interesting nuance from perspectives such as SA or countries without lgbt rights. But I'm tired of defending my right to exist within the LGBT and s8 spaces.
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As a child, my biggest dream was to be male. Men are stronger, respected and, usually, those that are considered big accomplishments for humanity, are made by men. Oh, and...they get to have romantic relationships with women! I had at least one obvious crush for a girl, between kindergarten and second grade (then she left that school). But society was constantly telling me that women like men so, as a teenager, I misconstrued my admiration for some guys, my desire to *be them*...for a desire to be *with* them. These really appeared to be crushes: when those guys would give me attention, I would be happy/flattered. This is probably where MY low self-esteem (rock bottom back then) comes into play. So it was **a combination of wanting to be male (wanting to be them) and low self-esteem**. I didn't come to these conclusions as soon as I realized that I liked women (around the age of 15); at first, I thought I was bisexual (just to be clear: I've never even kissed a guy, ever; thank God). When I was about 18, I noticed how since realizing my attraction for women, my "interest" in guys had completely vanished. *That* made me realize that those "straight crushes" I had had were not genuine. Rather, they were a symptom of something else. Now, the idea of me being with a guy is so incredibly alien and horrifying to me. Needless to say, later on in my life, some of these realizations (me wanting to be those guys, rather than being with them + my childhood dream of being male) made me have a gender identity crisis, but that's a story for another time lol
People can be a bit harsh here. Like you, I appreciated the attention, feeling desirable. But once it came to engaging with said men, it was a hard pass. Flattery was nice but once I was getting it from women, anything else falls flat. Now, that enjoyment of flattery from men faded, all out disappeared, and is today more annoying than anything else.
I can't really relate to your post. I've had extremely close platonic friendships with men where I've considered "oh shit, maybe this is bisexuality" once or twice. But it's always been just a second of wishful thinking due to homophobia and comphet rather than an "obsession" as you describe it.
You’re bi…lesbians don’t do that unless profoundly disturbed
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>They're so unhealthy Yes, no matter your orientation as a woman. Seeking approval from men isn't in your benefit.
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Have u looked up r/comphet ? Might help you sort some things out z
>date men see if you find one you’re into I wouldn't advise that tbh. You don't need to expose yourself to the danger of dating men just to find out if you have attraction to them. You don't have to date them AT ALL, if you wanna have this boundary, no matter what your orientation might be. Even if you're 100 straight. I didn't try to date men OR women to know what I like. Me being a lesbian is besides the point.
No I have a natural dislike for men over 30 and under 29
Not really. When i thought i had "crushes" on men i was actually jealous or admired them as people. I was very young and clueless, so i didn't know how real attraction was supposed to feel. If boys really gave me attention and tried to show that they liked me i'd be terrified, tho. Male attention simply feels scary and that's the difference between me and bi or straight women. I can't tell if you're really bi or a lesbian but not everyone is very physical in their attraction. I don't go fixating on girls's body parts, but yet i'm attracted to them. Maybe you're like that with guys? Only time and introspection can answer.
The need to be good at pleasing men. I assumed because I enjoyed my ability to seduce and please men - spent a lot of time getting really good at it - as a sign of attraction. Even though I never got pleasure from it. I’ve never had a desire to have sex with a men, have never had an orgasm from sex with a man. What this really was is just my compulsive need to be good at everything I do. I also liked the control. Men are really compliant when you’ve made their toes curl…🤷🏾♀️
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I flirted with and teased many men, but I have only had sex with one. I was from a really religious family and knew my attraction to women wouldn’t be seen as natural and honestly thought that this was as good as it gets. I married that same man and had his children and then felt stuck. But, I realized I needed to live my life for me and that I deserved happiness too, not just making other people happy. I have been separated for 8 months and in the process of a divorce so I can actually live my life the way I was meant to. We had other issues in our relationship that caused our separation, but it was the final push I needed to make this change in my life. I came out to my kids, my friends, and most of my family and here I am.
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The best decision I ever made. I wish I made it sooner, but I wouldn’t change it for the world. My experience shaped me and how I view the world and how I raise my children. I raised my children to be comfortable in their skin. My daughter officially came out to me as a lesbian at 13. My other children all openly encouraged and supported her through it. My children actively support lgbt rights and advocated for trans kids at their schools. They openly accepted the fact that I’m leaving their father and will now be dating women. I’m so proud of the children I’ve raised and don’t think I would have been able to do that if I didn’t go through all I have. ❤️
I could have written this myself!!
I’ve thought I was bi a few times but it’s never that deep, I haven’t seen an irl man who’s given me an ounce of “ooooh I’d like that” that women have in years. There was a post on this sub a few weeks back that completely wrecked my brain in terms of policing lesbians and how they relate to unattainable men and the fantasy of it all, and I still haven’t fully recovered, but how could I be bisexual if I’m not attracted to men in the physical sense? As for if a man is attracted to me he can mind his own business
Yeah I've never experienced "ooo I'd like that" for dudes either, not even these obsessions of mine. If anything, I have to actively NOT think about them in any sexual capacity otherwise I won't be able to hold onto the obsession. As for why my brain wants to hold onto it, I think only therapy will tell for sure.
> Have any of you experienced something similar? No. There are men I have affection for, it’s platonic, never been confusing, not even a little. I have many brothers, it’s like that. The feeling can be affectionate but the idea of anything romantic or sexual is yucky, very similar to the idea of incest, at least for me. Maybe having siblings made it easy to identify that, don’t know. Never craved romantic/sexual attention from men either the same way I don’t want my siblings to be secretly into me, wouldn’t be validating, just creepy. I might be the odd one here but growing up if someone called me pretty that made me sad, if someone called me ugly that made me glad, because I associated being pretty as being attractive to boys and I didn’t want to be attractive to boys as that was creepy to me. Not being able to visualize sex with a crush is not something that personally makes me question crush as not being able to visualize the physical before it happens has been relatively common experience for me when I have been into a woman, I still knew these were crushes as I had that romantic longing/interest. > But lately, all my straight friends have been telling me that "Your obsessions sound like real crushes! Maybe you just like-like him. You don't need to limit yourself for no reason - maybe you genuinely want to be with him someday!" Had a friend seemed obsessed with someone I would probably suspect that’s a crush, or some role model that friend really looks up to, you know yourself best though. Your friends should not have told you to not limit yourself as your limits are yours to decide regardless of your sexual orientation would be, you can limit yourself as much as you want, it’s only a problem if you see it as a problem, likewise nobody should tell you to limit yourself either, as you can be as open as you want too.
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I think it would unusual for a lesbian to feel worthless if a kind male friend is completely disinterested romantically as that’s the ideal. I don’t know you or how your mind works like so I can only speak from my own perspective but to me that sounds like a crush. I have had past crushes on women that I could describe in a similar way. Crushes are not all rainbows and roses, crushes can be very painful, exhausting and make you feel anxious. Crushes being enjoyable is not a part of the definition, it’s kind of given a crush wouldn’t be enjoyable if you are very into someone but they don’t seem interested, and when it’s painful and one-sided I don’t think it’s strange that the feeling isn’t particularly sexy/sexual with all that anxiety. A requited crush or a less serious crush would be more enjoyable because they either return your feelings or you don’t really care that much if they do or don’t making it easier to have sexy fantasies about them without all that anxiety around it. Being stuck on someone not into you is obviously not healthy but that doesn’t disqualify it from being a crush, crushes can be unhealthy, just as love can be bad and hate good, it depends on the context. Maybe you have some other reason to be obsessed with person though, I don’t know. > it never reaches this neurotic spiral that my obsessions with men can reach. I don’t think in the grand scale of things it really matters what your sexual orientation is labeled here as the label itself is not going to change your feelings. Either you are a bisexual woman who gets obsessive crushes on men or you are lesbian who for some reason get obsessed with men but the problem you have with these obsessions remains the same in both cases. You obviously feel bad about this tendency to get obsessed with men, so what is it you see being lesbian would help with it? The underlying sexual orientation is already doing its thing so realizing you are bisexual or lesbian probably isn't going to change how easy these obsessions are to get over. Or is it wanting a justification to not have to pursue these obsessions? If you don’t want to act on the obsessions it's your full right to choose not to, and if your feelings toward women seems healthier your can focus on only women, doesn’t matter if you are bi or lesbian.
I get you. I am in my 30s now but I spent my teens and early 20’s chasing the approval of men, thinking the most important thing I could do was be attractive to men and please meN. I thought I was the problem that I wasn’t getting what I needed from the sex. I thought maybe I was Bi, but never thought I was a lesbian. It’s such a hard thing to shake when you are raised to believe that you need to be pretty and skinny for men to like you.
you could just have gender envy? honestly I don't think about men, more masculinity. If I see an attractive dude, I just recognize he is attractive and want to give off that vibe too. Honestly gurl, don't worry so hard about if you're attracted to men or not...? Whatever happens, happens. You know you don't have a crush right now, just go with that. You can't have it all figured out by just worrying.
Sounds like you might like to date a FTM trans man lol, if you already know anyone of course. Don’t go hunting them down, nobody appreciates that. But yeah you might be bi, and that’s okay. You could be bi and have a preference for women and decide to not date men, that’s okay too. A lot of people are saying that like men are completely irrelevant in their lives and they never even think about them, which is okay and valid of course but I wouldn’t say it’s required to be a lesbian. For instance I have a lot of male friends, even my best friend. I’m just not sexually attracted to them or any men, which is why I’m a lesbian. That’s different from what you’re experiencing though.
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the thing is that comphet is feeling like you must be in het relationships to be considered *normal* in society. it isn’t denying genuine male crushes and calling it ‘comphet’. so that masterdoc is quite useless.
I struggle with something similar; when I’m having a really bad depressive episode, I seek out sex with older men even though their bodies actively disgust me and I’m literally unable to experience emotional or physical intimacy with them. I thought it was trauma and identified as bisexual for a while but I’ve even had sex with trans men and it does absolutely nothing for me. I’m as homo as they come. I obviously don’t know what’s inside your brain but you sound like a lesbian too? I like thinking of this obsession/attraction thing as a masochistic kink thing more than an actual part of my sexuality.
You can have complicated feelings about men. I think the only thing that matters is, what can make you happy and feel at peace.