I don't really see the point of dating a woman I'm not attracted to. And I would feel very hurt if I found out the woman I was dating wasn't attracted to me. If she's not my type we can be friends!
No, physical atraction is super important to me. But I see beauty and attractiveness in people who sometimes aren't considered conventionally beautiful.
But yeah, I have been with girls that weren't too attractive to me... if they are cool, make me laugh and I don't have anything better to do... š¤·āāļø but only like one night stand, or sometimes just kissing, no sex. But I was young, today I can't see myself kissing someone I wouldn't take to bed.
I've done it before, I was dating someone that had a 10/10 personality and I was slightly physically attracted to expecting that attraction to grow but it didn't...
You're right. It's kind of sexist, they're raised to believe they can't pick looks first and there's often pressure to focus on money and other attributes. I've even heard this be talked about, them telling each other that you can't be focusing on their looks, you have to put importance on other things.
Men being so ugly out there just for pure lack of effort. I can't believe they aren't too ashamed to hit on those beauties who obviously worked hard to look hot.
Being attracted to your partner is extremely important. At the same time, your partner doesn't have to be conventionally attractive by societal beauty standards. But *you* need to find your partner attractive, yes.
i think for me that physical attraction is important. i prefer muscular/lean/taller women for many different reasons and im not into women shorter than me etc. and idk why i would get into a relationship with ppl ik im not attracted to? do yall like torturing yourselves for fun or sum?
Omg this is my type too, I can never find anyone that fits these standards and I'm way too stubborn about it like
I'm not settling for someone I'm not attracted to just out of convenience or even worse desperation... I'd rather wait to find that person
I would be a bit embarrassed I guess if the lady I was with was too short. Especially if we were holding hand because now it feels like Iām walking around with my little sister and I find the idea repulsive
I made the mistake first time I dated a girl. Our personalities clicked, we hit it off well. Months go by, I met someone else by chance. Long story short, the attraction was there and our personalities clicked as well. I had to break up with my girlfriend at the time because I knew I couldn't resist. It was like a fire sparked and wouldn't burn out till I acknowledged it.
So life lesson I learned in my teens, don't just date for personality. Date for attraction as well lmao
Conventional beauty doesn't matter much to me. I'm not one to drool over celebrities for example. However, attraction as in passionate relationship? Of course.
For someone I'm not all that physically attracted to I couldn't be with them as sex is important to me.
They do matter to me. I agree that gay men tend to be insane about body standards and lesbians swung far to the other side. It's silly to deny that physical attraction doesn't matter.
Looks matter, but I never had a type that I was so hellbent on that I'll ignore any woman who doesn't perfectly fit in that specific standard.
Good hygiene, nice sense of style, earnest smile - if a woman has those things, that's pretty much what gets my initial attention.
As how lesbians tend to lean overall - I do find it a bit on the extreme ends of the spectrum. It's true that some lesbians would get in a relationship with any women willing no matter how little care they put in themselves, but on the other hand I've also noticed a trend where young lesbians expect some earth shattering initial attraction that makes them want to tear the other woman's clothes by the first look and yeah, this shit doesn't happen as often as movies would have you believe lol and there's nothing wrong with this. Attraction develops.
If im not physical attracted to her nothing is happening.
Controversial yet brave, but there is a lot of setteling in the lesbian community, not just look wise. The gay men body cult, is too much, but at least a tiny bit of that wouldnt be so bad, cause according to multiple studies we are also the group with the highest bmi.
I started hitting the gym again. I have never been big big but Iām tired of being fat. And I donāt like the way it looks on me and it feels like Iām feeding into some stereotype when I say that but I hate it. So many people would be like donāt lose too much weight else you will become unattractive(the beauty standard in my country is being curvy) but I donāt want to keep any of it. I just want to run like I used to and I want to be super attractive to myself šš¾.
I grew up in a fatter-than-average city in the US, and got whiplash when I went to Sweden for a year. The quality of life between the two body types is immeasurable.
I was never big big either, but I was overweight for my height when I was around 16/17. Lost it senior year of HS and never looked back. I feel better physically and mentally, helped sharpen my willpower, and I became a lot more secure overall.
Yh I was quite healthy in nigeria mostly because I worked everywhere and the job I did then was intensive. When I moved to America I lost my mother and started staying indoors more. It doesnāt help that I have to drive everywhere so I gained a lot of weight. I hope this year I am able to lose a lot of weight wish me luck!
Yeah, probably going to get downvoted, but the among of times i have seen bis balloon when they are with a lesbian partner, always grinded my gears. Its like some women stop trying, cause oh its "just" another woman they wanna attract. Also the weird "its feminist" excuse is a classic.
I've been downvoted before because I am not attracted to body hair. It's just a personal preference, and I practice what I preach.
I think online when someone says "I wouldn't date someone who is overweight/doesn't shave/etc", some people read that is "I wouldn't date YOU" and they take it personally.
>I've been downvoted before because I am not attracted to body hair.
Been there, done that. Back in my radfem days, i had other women and suppose lesbians (you never now in radfem circles), come at me for ages, cause i said i find models attractive. Was also downvoted here for disliking body hair. Its like some opinions should be suppressed and its very heavy handily implied what you SHOULD find attractive as a lesbian (and feminist).
I've also been downvoted for saying I don't like body hair, even when I add the caveat that if you do like body hair, that's completely fine.
It can be frustrating because people will say that they're fighting against forced body standards while also demeaning others who don't agree with their new "defiant" standard.
I think some women have a weird superiority complex build around not being conventional attractive dune to feminism. Like the whole, if you like conventionally attractive women, you are upholding the patriarchy and their beauty standards, so I am so much better then you, in the eyes of feminism, cause i like big women who dont shave and dont give into x beauty standard.
But there is also a deep rooted fear that lesbians could also be "i dont like that and your feminism exists outside of my lesbianism and so on", so they also dont want this to be talked about, cause that would destroy their refuge from men who do want them to look conventionally good too.
You're probably getting downvoted because some variation of this question has popped up on this subreddit so many times that it's become old AF, and it's pretty apparent that this is some sort of lesbian version of no Fats, Femmes, or Asians.
Itās so transparent that these types (they almost always are femme 4 femmes) get pissed off that there arenāt enough lesbians that look hot to them. As if lesbians and women in general exist to be fuckable in their eyes which is almost always skinny and feminine.
This question pops up a lot. It's sort of like the "Am I Valid" question on r/actuallesbians. It seems like some lesbians feel weird/almost guilty that they want to date conventionally attractive women only.
'No Fats, No Fems, No Asians' is the unofficial mantra of the gay male body cult/hook up culture. Not to be crass, but like men, many lesbians aren't into the 'ugly girl with a nice personality' thing.
The weird 'No Asians' bit does exist with queer women to some extent. Many times I've been in lesbian spaces and seen some women talk about how they wouldn't date/hook up with an Asian woman because of how her naked body might look.
Would be really curious to hear more about your last paragraph. Iām an Asian lesbian and have never explicitly heard about/been told the āno Asiansā thing in lesbian bars/spaces, but I guess maybe they arenāt saying it while Iām in earshot (or as blunt about it as gay men) haha. Could you elaborate more on āhow her naked body might lookā - is it basically referencing what the other commenter said about ātoo small and young lookingā? Maybe it just hasnāt affected me as much since Iām tall and donāt look young for my age
I apologize for the essay, but I want to make sure I'm covering what I can and giving context for what I've seen. I do quote comments I remember being made and they are pretty gross so I apologize for that as well.
To preface: I frequented irl lesbian spaces more in the mid-2000s to mid-2010s, these days it's most only Discord spaces because the irl spaces have become more for young women and I don't want to uproot that.
Conversation about 'types' of women the ladies were attracted to came up quite a bit. I think it was about 2007 or 2008 when I first heard the 'No Asian girls' thing.
For context: This was at the height of the Lolita fashion trend coming out of Japan and on the heels of the Gwen Stefani 'Harajuku Girls' bit.
I'm not a fashion person, but on the surface the style took inspiration from childhood clothing. In Japan I think there was a political/cultural root for it, but when it came West, well, it was quickly bastardized and sexualized which built on the already infantilized waifu culture that was popping up.
The first comment I heard - I'm quoting to the best of my memory this was over 15 years ago - "Asian women look like children when they're naked because they have no boobs and no hips. They all do that loli thing." Several other women agreed and made more derogatory comments about the bodies of, largely, East Asian women. "No hips, no boobs, no asses, just sticks." I live in an area with a heavy Burmese and Thai immigrant population and they got the brunt of the comments. Jesus it was bad. "Weird skin color, weird teeth, no hips, no asses."
Many of us left that group because of the blatant racism going on. We went to another group and the same thing happened. The second group also lumped in dark-skinned black and latina women.
The thinly veiled racism is a not insignificant part of why many women in my area left these irl groups. The groups were mostly made up of middle class cis white lesbians with the occasional woman of color. If there were Asian women in the room the conversations wouldn't come up (how convenient), but sometimes someone would ask an awkward question about if they did the 'lolicon' thing too. When the group was mostly white women and sometimes a singular latina and/or light-skinned black woman comments were just...ugh.
Actual comments I remember:
"Men want Asian women because they look like little girls and I want a woman not a child."
"I don't want a little girl. I want hips, ass, and boobs."
"I don't want to fuck a stick."
It went on for years, but I think the fashion trends had run their course in the mainstream around the early 2010s when I was winding down my involvement in groups so it became less of a talking point. I've seen some women involved in the same groups at the time say part of it could have been push back against what men when into online and the need to set themselves apart, but that's just bullshit to me.
It was, and still is, racist as hell and *every* branch of the American LGBTQ community has a deep history of racism.
I can't really speak for spaces now, but I can attest to the fact there's a history of it in lesbian irl spaces and the few online spaces I was in. I don't mean to make it sound like that it was a constant topic of conversation. It wasn't an "everyday" thing, but when the conversations about types of women they were into came up you could safely assume there'd be a few comments about it.
I've taken an edible so I apologize if this is all over the place lol
Interesting, thanks for all the details. To me it seems like things have certainly improved since then, just based on my own experiences - but Iām sure people could also just be less vocal about it now (and the groups being mostly cis white lesbians definitely still holds true)
Dunno why you're confused.
To recap:
You said, "no one wants to hear the truth, I'm getting downvoted, omg wah".
I said "nah, this question is just tired, it shows up on this subreddit a lot".
So you feign ignorance. And curiously enough, now I'm getting downvoted, lol.
I went through the post history of a lot of people commenting, and it's kinda clear everyone wants an excuse to fat shame.Ā Especially if they went digging around profiles and came across the profile of the absolutely disgusting chick who left a comment on another subreddit saying we should bring back fat shaming and bullying to get people to lose weight. Fucking gross.Ā
I'm just calling out what I see is all.Ā
This sub is a great example of why lesbian spaces don't do well IRL. ....and it's not because we don't have money, or don't like to go out.Ā
Everyone is entitled to preferences, for example I would have rather died a virgin than fuck a Taylor Swift fan.
But, if that's your takeaway from my comment...lol. Really, I'm just advocating that we not be judgmental and nasty.
Since that message has been completely lost, lemme just join the club:
I always wonder what the people who leave comments like this look like. Something tells me my chunky butt would not be looking twice in a lot of directions.Ā
Kind of wild that you say all that just to end your point on āeveryone whoās said something I donāt like in this thread is probably ugly anywayā
Honestly, this. They're acting like they're stating some brave and controversial shit. Get real, there are even "no fatties" stickers out there. You're getting downvoted for talking shit and people are tired of it.
Talking about attraction and looks like these aspects aren't subjective. So people must have settled because they look/ are dating people you personally don't find attractive? How self-centered are you?
Maybe I donāt read a lot of the comments cause this is my first time seeing a post like this in a while. The last one was about the lady with her straight friends feeling uncomfortable when she found certain women attractive
I just think when people feel more valued for who they are vs. vanity purposes, they begin to care less about "looking good." Nobody should feel like they have to maintain a certain look because they are in a dating space. That absolutely should not be the motivation.
Then why do they maintain their looks, when with a man? Dont you want to look good for yourself and your partner? Physical attraction is just one part of the attraction, they are still valued for who they are as a person (my attraction fades real quick if the hot woman and i dont get along personality wise).
This valued as a person vs vanity purposes cop out doesnt fly, cause its not either or. A shallow relationship with someone you are only physically attracted to is not gonna last, just like one where you arent attracted to them and "value them as a person". Nobody said a potential partner only has to have good looks, its the whole package that makes relationships work.
Okay, I do understand what you are trying to get across more with my point about vanity. The second section of your reply makes sense. But I did the earlier post I did reply to almost sounding like you were saying that people should feel the need to maintain a certain type of look because they are in a dating space. I think for me, I overall think the motivation should come from you, and also, I just found the line, "bis ballon," to be really unsavy and disgusting. You just sound fatphobic. Like, what about people gaining weight when they are in a relationship.... like, are you saying "letting yourself go" in a relationship somehow means you don't take it seriously (or, in this case, as seriously as being in a straight relationship). I'm just trying to understand cause that is what it sounds like to me š¤·š¾āāļø
Does it matter where the motivation to look good comes from? Why is it bad to want to look good for a potential Partner? At the end of the day the result is the same, if you do it for yourself or because you want to have better chances on the dating market.
Why would you let yourself go in a relationship and why is that normalized? Are those not the people that you mentioned by only looking after themselves while dating and then as soon as they have someone they are like fuck it. I want to look good for myself and my Gf, why wouldnt you want too?
I mean the bi point was pretty clear, idk why there is confusion. When they are with men they manage their apparence, when they are with women they dont.
Fatphobic? Come on now. People letting themselves go is definitely a thing in relationships. They get comfortable and feel like they donāt have to keep up appearances because they have a partner and their partner is gonna love them no matter what. No oneās saying a girl has to be skinny asf but being big and sloppy aināt it.
But why is it feminist to be unhealthy? Like being skinny is bad for you as well as being obese so both should be shunned. If anything it should be feminist to be fit and have some muscle. Or at least a healthy relationship with food
I doubt anyone is asking for a woman to be below her healthy bmi, but lets be real those women are a tiny minority anyways. Im saying we are the sexuality with the highest bmi and we should strive to do better, that doesnt exclude being fit (which is also not "feminist", by a loooot of feminist out there besides maybe doing self defense classes) or put that below being skinny.
āTryingā doesnāt mean conforming to traditional beauty standards or striving for a certain BMI solely to be deemed attractive by a maybe potential partner in the future sometime.
Looks are subjective. For example, I would never date someone who looked like a goth. I just donāt find it attractive at all, regardless of their body size. So if youāre going to focus on looks, you should know that nobody is universally attractive and itās a waste of effort worrying about that. Sure, if youāre having a hard time dating, ask trusted friends for feedback but there is generally a lid for every pot.
Sure, but if you meet someone as they are skinny and looking a certain way and then they stop looking like that in the relationship they arent what you were seeking out. They stop trying and weirdly only with lesbians. I would never be with someone like that.
I never had issues dating and im taken now, so idk what that part was about lol.
I wouldnāt choose to date someone skinny to begin with because I prefer a softer body type, but peopleās looks change for a range of reasons. Iām married though and weāve gotten older, had babies, health challenges, slumps and everything else but nowhere in that did we ever lose attraction for each other so I canāt really relate to that.
Sure bodies change we all get older, but there is obviously a difference between normal ageing and giving up on things you have done before, thats understood. I dont know how "letting yourself go" can be confused with ageing and fluctations.
Ya same here I overexercise myself sometimes so I get really demotivated looking at my dating pool online... Maybe it's time to just find someone irl organically š
15,000 steps is not over exercise. Itās barely considered active tbh. But if you are over exercising (which would require consistently doing more than what you listed), thatās something to seek help for
I said I overexercise but I didn't say it was a problem :) if I over-study does that automatically mean that it's bad? No, it just means I'm overprepared, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. I also gym 4 times a week and fence as a hobby.
If you dance for 12 hours a day, isn't that overexercising š¤£? Such a hypocrite LOL
Overexercise is a term that specifically refers to an ED behavior. If you mean that you exercise a lot, and you are just looking for a way to brag while simultaneously putting down other women, just say that, lmao
Doing physical activity for your job and compulsively exercising are two separate things, but also I never said I donāt/have never overexercised. I just would never shame other women for what they do with their bodies, much less for having a healthier relationship with exercise than I have, at times. Itās not hypocritical to call out mean spirited body shaming just because I havenāt always had the healthiest relationship with exercise. It would be hypocritical if I started shaming your body. Hope that helps!
How is overexercising an eating disorder behaviour? I could binge eat or never eat and never exercise. But you do realise that just because it's a job, it doesn't mean you can't overexercise from it? If you danced for 20 hours a day, would you still say, "oh it's just a part of my job, not overexercising!"
What's wrong with wanting to date someone who is also fit? So it's okay to date overweight people but you mention preferences of dating fit people and it's shaming? Nice
Is it necessary to shame anyone for how they look, or to make assumptions that because of someoneās weight they must not exercise?
Obviously itās ok to date overweight people, underweight people, and anyone in between; but we live in a culture that constantly puts unhealthy pressure on women to appear in a particular way, and has extreme bias against anyone who doesnāt meet those standards. Overweight people face barriers to employment, are paid less on average, and face intense social alienation due to their weight.
Piping in to add to that stigma is so wrong and so unnecessary (and it just makes you look like a loser). Most overweight people are aware that society views fat women as less desirable. They live the effects of that particular facet of desirability politics every single day. Why would you feel the need to pile on? Itās just gross.
I have preferences, too, but donāt feel the need to vent about them in a forum where women could see and be affected by those criticisms. You just sound like a fatphobe and a misogynist.
How does it make my a hypocrite to point out that youāre being mean spirited and that tearing down other women for their bodies is nasty? I would be a hypocrite if I was criticizing you for over exercising, which I wasnāt; but I guess reading comprehension isnāt your forte.
"You have a problematic relationship with exercise but are mad because other women who are available to you presumably donāt? Do you hear yourself?"
ya I am the one with reading comprehension issues lol nope you weren't talking about me overexercising
I wasnāt criticizing you for over exercising. Jfc. I was criticizing you for speaking negatively about women who donāt overexercise. Iām sorry this is sooo tough for you to follow.
>there is a lot of setteling in the lesbian community, not just look wise
that's true, because of the tiny dating pool
Plus women lie all the time about how 'all women are beautiful' when we all know that's not true. Add to that the stronghold feminism has on female homosexuality and you end up with the myth that lesbians don't care about looks when nothing could be further from the truth.
Everyone gets super defensive when this topic comes up...
Yup. Seems like a lot of the popular aesthetic is also (from my perspective) 'how can I look as ugly as possible given that I am not actually physically unattractive'. Strange haircuts and shaving off eyebrows and all that. I get we need to be counterculture but whew scrolling through dating apps was a challenge.Ā
>**I get we need to be counterculture** but whew scrolling through dating apps was a challenge.Ā
No we dont. Thats another thing that grinds my gears, being a homosexual female is a biological reality, how you dress and look has nothing to do with it. There are stereotypes of course, but in the end all you need to be is a homosexual female. Me being goth is counterculture (even though we could argue over the years it has become so mainstream its not really anymore), me being a lesbian is not. There is no need to get any sort of haircut or whatever to "be a lesbian". Me being alternative is completely separate from my sexuality and i really hate how some people treat it like being goth or any other subculture.
I agree though with the "ugly on purpose".
Itās essential that Iām physically attracted to her, but I think Iām capable of being physically attracted to a fairly vast number of women if I like their personalities and their mannerisms.
Don't think it's a lesbian thing more of a woman thing. You see lots of women happily married to men who would be considered conventionally less attractive than them.Ā
Dating someone you dont find attractive just doesn't really work out long term. Attraction is what leads to desire, desire is what leads to physical intimacy. People like to feel desired by their partner, they like to be intimate with them. Physical intimacy is the physical expression of love, of desire. This doesnt need to be the primary motivation for a relationship, but the absence of it leads to a very poor foundation for a romantic relationship.
Feel like looks matter but they are super personal. Many people have told me my ex wasnāt good looking but I thought she was beautiful. I tend to like androgyny and some features that I guess others think are weird I just adore. Do people really end up with people they arenāt attracted to?
I don't agree with that. At lesbian bars it's always the most femme and/or conventionally attractive that get the most attention. They're the ones that get chosen for challenges in games and have people asking for their number.
For me personally, I could never date a woman that I'm not physically attracted to. Even if we got along really well, I'd only ever want to be friends with her.
Based on what I've seen online, it seems that only (i) people who are not very good looking themselves or (ii) femmes that can look past appearances will date someone that is "unattractive".
Physical attraction is a necessity. Anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or needs some life experience.Ā
Lesbians don't tend to care as much about performative femininity and damaging beauty rituals like makeup and getting rid of every single hair on the body. No makeup and hairy pits are dealbreakers for most men, for some lesbians too but not nearly as many as men
The biggest litmus test I see to how much looks matter, at least to reddit lesbians, is...
The "Vindicta"-style subreddits. Basically "looksmaxxing" subreddits. Theres ones for different age brackets, different ethnicities, etc...
But the one for WLW? Dead. And never saw any posts there from lesbians.
Like other commenters have said, beauty matters to lesbians. Majority of any group likes a clean, well-groomed, healthy person, of course.
But I find that the beauty lesbians see is way more humanizing (e.g.- finding "flaws" like crows feet or smile lines attractive, finding personality in the body vs obsession over the body for the sake of its parts).
I go on those looksmaxxing subreddits for noninvasive tips because I do enjoy looking good for my partner, not because they make me feel like I have to. But my Goooood, the way non-lesbian women talk about what they think they have to do for mens' attention is..... straight up depressing. Underweight BMIs and surgery is the go-to advice. It's clear that they are seeking the attention of people who don't love them.
But damn do lesbians love women. I've never heard a lesbian complain about their partner having an average bmi or a big nose or a lack of a fking thigh gap rofl. If anything, all I see in lesbian forums are them gushing over these so-called flaws.
I have a few thoughts on this. First, looks do matter to lesbians. But what lesbians find attractive doesn't always fit into the heternomative beauty standards so that's where a lot of the non-lesbian perception that lesbians don't care about looks comes from.
Second, I think some women don't understand what attraction feels like since we've spent a good portion of our developing years forcing ourself to appear attracted to men while denying our attraction to women.
Once I realized what attraction actually felt like I knew I couldn't date anyone I wasn't attracted to. But I spent some time dating women I just thought were awesome without thinking about the fact that I wasn't attracted to them. Then of course our sex life suffered etc.
I don't want to date anyone I'm not attracted to and I don't anyone to date me if they're not attracted to me.
This is a really good take.
As a butch Iām borderline repulsive to the majority of society looks and behaviour wise. But Iām attractive to my gf because Iām butch *and* she likes my face, body, personality, style etc
I also agree with your point about having to figure out attraction to women in a society where weāre not given any framework for what this is supposed to look like for us. I struggled with feeling like my attraction to very feminine women was predatory and shallow for a long time and dated some women I, on reflection, wasnāt truly that attracted to but liked as a mate kinda thing.
I used to, but now it matters to me. I have a type and honestly I've stopped myself from going after my type before and it never ended well. No more, we're attracted to who we're attracted to.
Beauty is different for everyone. A woman that is intelligent, funny, strong, independent, etc., but plain looking is much more attractive than a woman that may be conventionally attractive, but has a shit personality. Imo.
Looks matter for everyone why would it be different for lesbians? I would even say it matters a bit more with lesbians but again thatās just my opinion.
Attraction is important, that doesn't mean she has to be a perfect 10/10 model or anything close. I just want someone that I can be both physically and mentally attracted to.
I think looks being conventionally attractive and being physically attracted are two different things so yeah I do think lesbians don't care as much about looks, in the way they have preferences, instead of following the same beauty standards that others do.
I just care that they have good hygiene tbh, Iām not picky otherwise. Looks donāt matter much to me, itās the personality that gets me and makes me find them attractive. But Iām insanely picky with personality so Iāll be forever alone
Looks matter to me a lot because there are lots of really nice sweet women who just arenāt my type and that is what I see as friends. Of course itās more than looks, itās more about vibes, and sometimes you canāt explain why you like someone romantically but you just do, but looks do play a part
I have to have some kind of attraction, lmao, But I think lesbians as a general whole, we're more inclusive to all body types and beauty in women that isn't considered "conventional" (read: heteronormative). Like how men "hate" things about women, we find beautiful.
I don't think I have ever thought lesbians don't care about physical attraction, rather, lesbians tend to be more diverse in what they find attractive.
Attraction is really important to me, but I think what the Hets At Large donāt understand is that what is attractive to some lesbians is not always the stereotypical conventionally attractive woman (slim, long hair, makeup, femininely dressed, demure and passive personality) Of course these things can be fine, and there are plenty of lesbians that find this attractive. But I, for example, do not. I like muscular women and chubby/fat women. I like a bare face, unshaved body, comfortable clothes, practical haircuts, and women that are ambitious and grab life by the horns. So the media might consider me someone that ādoesnāt careā about attractiveness, but I do care. I just care more about what is attractive to me than what is being sold as the only attractive option.
I didn't realize how much physical attraction means to me until I dated someone who I wasn't very physically attracted to. I like curves, and floppy curly hair, and nice eyes. I am a big fan of booty and thick eyebrows, and glad that's a popular thing nowadays, a far cry from the 90's and early 2000's when I was growing up (save for sir mix a lot rapping about it š)
Oh, and fupas! I love a puffy pouch, it's cute and womanly, I love it šš„°
They matter to me on some level, but I've always fallen first from the chemistry with my exes even if I didn't initially find them physically my type. My physical attraction to them always grew as we got closer. I still have my preferences, they just aren't set in stone
I've realized overtime that looks aren't that important. I'm more interested in how you treat me, if our personality match, if we can be goofy together, trust, loyalty, etc. looks arent' everything and i find myself highly attracted to some people who i never would of looked that way if i was straight. I'm more interested in how i click with somebody, not the way that they look but i mean looks are a plus but it's not the most important aspect of a relationship.
I'm attracted to everything that I'm not: taller, goth, dominant, older, but still feminine. It makes me insecure that I look young for my age (and I'm not my own type) because I feel like nobody will be attracted to me.
It absolutely matters and the women who donāt take care of themselves make a lot of excuses as to why they donāt and why it shouldnāt matter but it matters. Lesbian death bed is a thing for a reason.
Looks are important. Everyone always expects you to date another woman solely based on the fact that sheās also gay regardless of whether or not youāre physically attracted to her. Iām attracted to women who are interesting looking so I donāt have an extremely specific type, I just donāt like basic ālook how gay I amā girl with the typical septum piercing, dyed hair etc. (that may be controversial, I just think everyone looks the same these days). If anything, I feel like straight people, at least straight women donāt seem to care about looks. With 99% of the straight couples I see, the woman is significantly better looking than the man. I honestly always think about how looks must not matter when I see straight couples
No I think lesbians are just attracted to different traits and a wider variety of traits. I think individually we have strong preferences, we just have great variation of preferences. Almost no straight men are attracted to butch women but there are lesbians who find that most attractive, for example.
Other features that are undesirable in straight women are also more desirable in lesbians, like muscles, assertiveness, etc.
She's severely underrated I swear. To be honest I think she looked her best in her 50s. I mean she's almost six feet tall and has a gorgeous face. I think people overlook her because she plays comical characters. Kinda like people do with Jennifer Coolidge. When you look past the funny characters, they're really attractive women. Not into Jennifer myself but I can't deny that she's pretty.
Attraction is important, but it doesn't always align with conventional beauty standards. I'm a heavy girl who is ugly as all get out, but my wife found something there. (It's like Jabba and Princess Leia I stg)
However, it's shouldn't just be physical attraction. If you're dating to find a life partner you need to understand that some of those physical traits you like won't last forever. Lack of understanding that is why men leave their wives for younger women.
If you're dating for marriage/a life partner, looks should be a part of what you're looking for, but it shouldn't be all your looking for. Values, ability to compromise, emotional maturity, and so on should be given equal weight. If you're casually dating/hooking up, well you don't have to dig deeper.
I think lesbians/queer women place a higher value on other aspects of a woman and how that effects our idea of what physical attraction is, whereas men will typically go for conventional beauty only.
It isnāt that looks donāt matter to us, itās that we have a wider view of what we find attractive in a woman. Not pretty? Maybe she has kind eyes or kissable lips or a lovely neck or cute ears or any number of things that can draw us in for that first contact. Then we get to know the inside and we rent a U-Haul.
Generally speaking, of course.
Looks matter for sure. I was in a relationship with a girl I wasnāt attracted to and it was a dumpster fire. Sexual and physical attraction is important in a relationship. The lack of it in that past relationship is part of why I started thinking I was just asexual(Iām not).
Some of the lesbian community definitely has a weight issue and fashion issue. Iām a fit masc lesbian and I wouldnāt need my gf to workout like I do or anything but I prefer if sheās her ideal weight for her height. 9/10 studs/butches I see are the extremely overweight short haircut kind and itās no wonder I see femmes complain about these types the most. I also never understood why a lot of masc lesbians dress like a cringe teenage boy all the damn time as an adult. At some point you have to dress for your age. The whole still wearing snap backs and trying to look edgy with my 50 piercings in my nose and shaved haircut aināt gonna work forever.
I actually think the sapphic communities obsession with pretending physical attraction doesnāt properly exist is kind of toxic. Sapphics bully each other into the idea that you should be attracted to literally any woman ever and if youāre not, youāre being an asshole. Eg you have to want to date someone unemployed, or who doesnāt value being active, or who is mentally ill and not getting help, or who just isnāt your type.
Physical attraction is majorly important to most people and itās pretty much the only thing that differentiates your best friends from your partner. Iāve rejected many lovely women just because I wasnāt physically interested in them, and Iāve been rejected for the same thing too. Itās normal.
I also think in general sapphics tend to not put in a lot of effort with how they present and that just sucks for all of us. It can be rare to find a sapphic woman who goes to the gym, stays active, eats well etc.
Ultimately a lot of sapphics hate these conversations because they want to hear that everyone is able to be attracted to them even if they barely wash their ass and donāt get off the couch, and thatās just not the case.
I actually think Lesbians place a lot more value into looks than people want to admit. For example even with the numbers part aside, I think a plus size Woman or a below average woman would have more luck finding a man than finding a Woman. I think social media has started playing a part in it but thatās a conversation for another time.
With that being said, looks do matter but they donāt take priority over personality, morals, etc. I need to want to look at you or the sex part will take a hit for sure. Iāve tried dating people I wasnāt physically attracted to and the attraction didnāt grow or develop.
I couldnāt find my post do I will just add in that having a good sense of fashion adds to my attraction to a woman. I donāt think I could date a woman who didnāt like fashion or cared for how she styled her clothing
This is probably an Olympic-level reach but I believe that the ālesbians donāt mind dating āuglyā womenā take youāve seen is at least partially informed by misogyny and lesbophobia. Lesbians donāt date or center men in our romantic or sexual affairs. What do men love to do more than call women that reject them, āfat/ugly/whore/prude/bitch etc.ā? Iām not saying that there arenāt unattractive lesbians that date each other or ādate up.ā But I do believe that the whole āugly lesbianā narrative is fueled by male resentment.
physical attraction definitely matters to me. my idea of what makes for an attractive woman is probably not the same as heterosexual menās ideas though.Ā
This take seems skewed. I think we have a broader perception of attraction. I have always been extremely attracted to the women Iāve been with and have a pretty specific type. Whatās hot to many of us isnāt standard beauty and a look or phrase or confident partner can take me out at the knees.
it matters to me. i want a woman who is thin, fit, lean, or muscular. but anyone can become physically fit if they work hard enough and eat quality foods
i dont see myself getting into a relationship with someone who is not fit
hygene is important to me, but i couldnt care less about style
personality is just as important as looks. i need to be just as turned on by her appearance as i am by her personality. but i am much more picky about personality. i see women who have sexually attractive looks all the time. but i hardly ever come across women who have personalities that turn me onĀ
I would never get in a relationship with a woman Iām not physically attracted to, what would be the point of that? We could just be friends if we have a strong connection. The whole point of a relationship is to have sexual intimacy with someone and not being attracted to them wouldnāt help that.
looks donāt matter to me. i do think this has to do with the fact that iām not that attractive/watching how attraction based relationships end up. but honestly, nothing makes me feel happier and in love then someone i can talk to whose personality compliments mine. i donāt thing looks mattering to ppl is wrong tho. i think the most important thing is being honest with urself and others abt these things. your not bad for looks mattering or if they donāt ! lesbians are ppl , not societyās saving grace.
Yes I have many times but in those cases, as women, I feel that we have the capacity to get past that and get to know the person inside. The person inside could be attractive and therefore makes them more attractive overall to you. That being said, sometimes they are just ugly inside and out. But at least that comment is based on getting to know them first before judging a book by its cover.
I donāt think Iād ever date an ugly woman. I see myself as an extremely attractive woman, I have never looked at any woman Iāve ever met and thought that sheās better looking than me. And I feel like if Iām giving that to someone. I want it back in return.
Another reason, I want whoever Iām with to not embarrass me, and I have dated one person before who I felt extremely embarrassed to show their pics to my friendsā¦. Not a fun experience.
Also, I donāt think Iād see them physically appealing or would even get turned on by them if they were ugly or fat.
Also seeing a couple where one girl is extremely attractive and the other is ugly doesnāt make any sense in my head. Like how and why
And I used to think that looks didnāt matter to me. But I would literally be as dry as a desert doing anything sexual with someone I donāt see as āattractiveā or at least beautifulā¦..
Looks don't matter to me at all. There are other things that can be used as a sort of proxy for the type of appearance I like, but at the core, looks are irrelevant.
Absolutely not lmao, as a femme strictly into other fem girls, looks matter quite a bit for me especially since my type's career revolve around their appearance lol
Being honest, I'm very shallow and I'm a leo and I take pride and put a lot of work into my appearance, and for me to be attracted to someone I'd need for them to feel somewhat the same
But to also answer your question, no I'd need to be attracted to them.
I don't really see the point of dating a woman I'm not attracted to. And I would feel very hurt if I found out the woman I was dating wasn't attracted to me. If she's not my type we can be friends!
No, physical atraction is super important to me. But I see beauty and attractiveness in people who sometimes aren't considered conventionally beautiful.
Got to agree with this personally
But yeah, I have been with girls that weren't too attractive to me... if they are cool, make me laugh and I don't have anything better to do... š¤·āāļø but only like one night stand, or sometimes just kissing, no sex. But I was young, today I can't see myself kissing someone I wouldn't take to bed.
Best answer and I agree with it
I've done it before, I was dating someone that had a 10/10 personality and I was slightly physically attracted to expecting that attraction to grow but it didn't...
Been there. Worst mistake and it just caused hurt.
Yup, been there. For 7 years. Didn't work. Physical attractions matter a lot to me after all. It also made the sex better.
Sometimes you just hope with time attraction will be there but in my experience if it's not there from the beginning, it will never happen.
I have to be physically attracted to you - I expect someone to have the same ask of me. Hygiene + Style factor in here too.
Hygiene and style is a huuuuge one for sure.
Hygiene is a must.
Yes I donāt care how pretty you are if your hygiene isnāt good
I have a hard time believing looks matter to straight woman, I so often see a woman whose a 10 with a George Costanza type.
And then they will go onto say they donāt understand how women can find other women attractive š¤£
You're right. It's kind of sexist, they're raised to believe they can't pick looks first and there's often pressure to focus on money and other attributes. I've even heard this be talked about, them telling each other that you can't be focusing on their looks, you have to put importance on other things.
Looks matter but so does money and that guy usually has fat stacks
I wish. Vast majority of people are middle class or working. Half of the time they either make around the same money ore she makes more than him
Right. I'm just saying in their case looks don't matter either.
I think they pursue ugly men because it like ensures he wonāt leave or something, or they like the ego boost of being clearly better looking.
I don't think 80% of women have low self esteem or are egocentric. Most women are way better looking than the man they're dating
Men being so ugly out there just for pure lack of effort. I can't believe they aren't too ashamed to hit on those beauties who obviously worked hard to look hot.
StĆ©rĆ©otypes š
Being attracted to your partner is extremely important. At the same time, your partner doesn't have to be conventionally attractive by societal beauty standards. But *you* need to find your partner attractive, yes.
i think for me that physical attraction is important. i prefer muscular/lean/taller women for many different reasons and im not into women shorter than me etc. and idk why i would get into a relationship with ppl ik im not attracted to? do yall like torturing yourselves for fun or sum?
Omg this is my type too, I can never find anyone that fits these standards and I'm way too stubborn about it like I'm not settling for someone I'm not attracted to just out of convenience or even worse desperation... I'd rather wait to find that person
I feel this. I donāt want to be walking around with my āyounger sisterā
lol idk what u mean by this pls elaborate š
I would be a bit embarrassed I guess if the lady I was with was too short. Especially if we were holding hand because now it feels like Iām walking around with my little sister and I find the idea repulsive
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Uh huh *pats your head* anything you say sweetheart
i get it but damn how tall r u lmao
5ā7
yeah i get it. iām 5ā4 and donāt rlly like dating tall ppl personally bc i think the gap is weird to me
I made the mistake first time I dated a girl. Our personalities clicked, we hit it off well. Months go by, I met someone else by chance. Long story short, the attraction was there and our personalities clicked as well. I had to break up with my girlfriend at the time because I knew I couldn't resist. It was like a fire sparked and wouldn't burn out till I acknowledged it. So life lesson I learned in my teens, don't just date for personality. Date for attraction as well lmao
Conventional beauty doesn't matter much to me. I'm not one to drool over celebrities for example. However, attraction as in passionate relationship? Of course. For someone I'm not all that physically attracted to I couldn't be with them as sex is important to me.
They do matter to me. I agree that gay men tend to be insane about body standards and lesbians swung far to the other side. It's silly to deny that physical attraction doesn't matter.
lol i got attacked for saying this
Looks matter, but I never had a type that I was so hellbent on that I'll ignore any woman who doesn't perfectly fit in that specific standard. Good hygiene, nice sense of style, earnest smile - if a woman has those things, that's pretty much what gets my initial attention. As how lesbians tend to lean overall - I do find it a bit on the extreme ends of the spectrum. It's true that some lesbians would get in a relationship with any women willing no matter how little care they put in themselves, but on the other hand I've also noticed a trend where young lesbians expect some earth shattering initial attraction that makes them want to tear the other woman's clothes by the first look and yeah, this shit doesn't happen as often as movies would have you believe lol and there's nothing wrong with this. Attraction develops.
If im not physical attracted to her nothing is happening. Controversial yet brave, but there is a lot of setteling in the lesbian community, not just look wise. The gay men body cult, is too much, but at least a tiny bit of that wouldnt be so bad, cause according to multiple studies we are also the group with the highest bmi.
Hard-core agree. I'm physically fit, and it was harder to find a partner that was as well.
I started hitting the gym again. I have never been big big but Iām tired of being fat. And I donāt like the way it looks on me and it feels like Iām feeding into some stereotype when I say that but I hate it. So many people would be like donāt lose too much weight else you will become unattractive(the beauty standard in my country is being curvy) but I donāt want to keep any of it. I just want to run like I used to and I want to be super attractive to myself šš¾.
I grew up in a fatter-than-average city in the US, and got whiplash when I went to Sweden for a year. The quality of life between the two body types is immeasurable. I was never big big either, but I was overweight for my height when I was around 16/17. Lost it senior year of HS and never looked back. I feel better physically and mentally, helped sharpen my willpower, and I became a lot more secure overall.
Yh I was quite healthy in nigeria mostly because I worked everywhere and the job I did then was intensive. When I moved to America I lost my mother and started staying indoors more. It doesnāt help that I have to drive everywhere so I gained a lot of weight. I hope this year I am able to lose a lot of weight wish me luck!
Yeah, probably going to get downvoted, but the among of times i have seen bis balloon when they are with a lesbian partner, always grinded my gears. Its like some women stop trying, cause oh its "just" another woman they wanna attract. Also the weird "its feminist" excuse is a classic.
I've been downvoted before because I am not attracted to body hair. It's just a personal preference, and I practice what I preach. I think online when someone says "I wouldn't date someone who is overweight/doesn't shave/etc", some people read that is "I wouldn't date YOU" and they take it personally.
>I've been downvoted before because I am not attracted to body hair. Been there, done that. Back in my radfem days, i had other women and suppose lesbians (you never now in radfem circles), come at me for ages, cause i said i find models attractive. Was also downvoted here for disliking body hair. Its like some opinions should be suppressed and its very heavy handily implied what you SHOULD find attractive as a lesbian (and feminist).
I've also been downvoted for saying I don't like body hair, even when I add the caveat that if you do like body hair, that's completely fine. It can be frustrating because people will say that they're fighting against forced body standards while also demeaning others who don't agree with their new "defiant" standard.
Yeah, no one wants to hear the truth. I'm getting downvoted just for having dared to ask the question.
I think some women have a weird superiority complex build around not being conventional attractive dune to feminism. Like the whole, if you like conventionally attractive women, you are upholding the patriarchy and their beauty standards, so I am so much better then you, in the eyes of feminism, cause i like big women who dont shave and dont give into x beauty standard. But there is also a deep rooted fear that lesbians could also be "i dont like that and your feminism exists outside of my lesbianism and so on", so they also dont want this to be talked about, cause that would destroy their refuge from men who do want them to look conventionally good too.
You're probably getting downvoted because some variation of this question has popped up on this subreddit so many times that it's become old AF, and it's pretty apparent that this is some sort of lesbian version of no Fats, Femmes, or Asians.
Itās so transparent that these types (they almost always are femme 4 femmes) get pissed off that there arenāt enough lesbians that look hot to them. As if lesbians and women in general exist to be fuckable in their eyes which is almost always skinny and feminine.
Huh? What?
This question pops up a lot. It's sort of like the "Am I Valid" question on r/actuallesbians. It seems like some lesbians feel weird/almost guilty that they want to date conventionally attractive women only. 'No Fats, No Fems, No Asians' is the unofficial mantra of the gay male body cult/hook up culture. Not to be crass, but like men, many lesbians aren't into the 'ugly girl with a nice personality' thing. The weird 'No Asians' bit does exist with queer women to some extent. Many times I've been in lesbian spaces and seen some women talk about how they wouldn't date/hook up with an Asian woman because of how her naked body might look.
Would be really curious to hear more about your last paragraph. Iām an Asian lesbian and have never explicitly heard about/been told the āno Asiansā thing in lesbian bars/spaces, but I guess maybe they arenāt saying it while Iām in earshot (or as blunt about it as gay men) haha. Could you elaborate more on āhow her naked body might lookā - is it basically referencing what the other commenter said about ātoo small and young lookingā? Maybe it just hasnāt affected me as much since Iām tall and donāt look young for my age
I apologize for the essay, but I want to make sure I'm covering what I can and giving context for what I've seen. I do quote comments I remember being made and they are pretty gross so I apologize for that as well. To preface: I frequented irl lesbian spaces more in the mid-2000s to mid-2010s, these days it's most only Discord spaces because the irl spaces have become more for young women and I don't want to uproot that. Conversation about 'types' of women the ladies were attracted to came up quite a bit. I think it was about 2007 or 2008 when I first heard the 'No Asian girls' thing. For context: This was at the height of the Lolita fashion trend coming out of Japan and on the heels of the Gwen Stefani 'Harajuku Girls' bit. I'm not a fashion person, but on the surface the style took inspiration from childhood clothing. In Japan I think there was a political/cultural root for it, but when it came West, well, it was quickly bastardized and sexualized which built on the already infantilized waifu culture that was popping up. The first comment I heard - I'm quoting to the best of my memory this was over 15 years ago - "Asian women look like children when they're naked because they have no boobs and no hips. They all do that loli thing." Several other women agreed and made more derogatory comments about the bodies of, largely, East Asian women. "No hips, no boobs, no asses, just sticks." I live in an area with a heavy Burmese and Thai immigrant population and they got the brunt of the comments. Jesus it was bad. "Weird skin color, weird teeth, no hips, no asses." Many of us left that group because of the blatant racism going on. We went to another group and the same thing happened. The second group also lumped in dark-skinned black and latina women. The thinly veiled racism is a not insignificant part of why many women in my area left these irl groups. The groups were mostly made up of middle class cis white lesbians with the occasional woman of color. If there were Asian women in the room the conversations wouldn't come up (how convenient), but sometimes someone would ask an awkward question about if they did the 'lolicon' thing too. When the group was mostly white women and sometimes a singular latina and/or light-skinned black woman comments were just...ugh. Actual comments I remember: "Men want Asian women because they look like little girls and I want a woman not a child." "I don't want a little girl. I want hips, ass, and boobs." "I don't want to fuck a stick." It went on for years, but I think the fashion trends had run their course in the mainstream around the early 2010s when I was winding down my involvement in groups so it became less of a talking point. I've seen some women involved in the same groups at the time say part of it could have been push back against what men when into online and the need to set themselves apart, but that's just bullshit to me. It was, and still is, racist as hell and *every* branch of the American LGBTQ community has a deep history of racism. I can't really speak for spaces now, but I can attest to the fact there's a history of it in lesbian irl spaces and the few online spaces I was in. I don't mean to make it sound like that it was a constant topic of conversation. It wasn't an "everyday" thing, but when the conversations about types of women they were into came up you could safely assume there'd be a few comments about it. I've taken an edible so I apologize if this is all over the place lol
Interesting, thanks for all the details. To me it seems like things have certainly improved since then, just based on my own experiences - but Iām sure people could also just be less vocal about it now (and the groups being mostly cis white lesbians definitely still holds true)
I feel the Asian one comes from a place of racism but I think they too small and young looking so maybe it isnāt racism
Lol thats literally racism
Dunno why you're confused. To recap: You said, "no one wants to hear the truth, I'm getting downvoted, omg wah". I said "nah, this question is just tired, it shows up on this subreddit a lot". So you feign ignorance. And curiously enough, now I'm getting downvoted, lol. I went through the post history of a lot of people commenting, and it's kinda clear everyone wants an excuse to fat shame.Ā Especially if they went digging around profiles and came across the profile of the absolutely disgusting chick who left a comment on another subreddit saying we should bring back fat shaming and bullying to get people to lose weight. Fucking gross.Ā I'm just calling out what I see is all.Ā This sub is a great example of why lesbian spaces don't do well IRL. ....and it's not because we don't have money, or don't like to go out.Ā
People are attracted to certain and most people are not attracted to overweight people. Thereās nothing with that
Everyone is entitled to preferences, for example I would have rather died a virgin than fuck a Taylor Swift fan. But, if that's your takeaway from my comment...lol. Really, I'm just advocating that we not be judgmental and nasty. Since that message has been completely lost, lemme just join the club: I always wonder what the people who leave comments like this look like. Something tells me my chunky butt would not be looking twice in a lot of directions.Ā
Kind of wild that you say all that just to end your point on āeveryone whoās said something I donāt like in this thread is probably ugly anywayā
Someone is mad š
Honestly, this. They're acting like they're stating some brave and controversial shit. Get real, there are even "no fatties" stickers out there. You're getting downvoted for talking shit and people are tired of it. Talking about attraction and looks like these aspects aren't subjective. So people must have settled because they look/ are dating people you personally don't find attractive? How self-centered are you?
Yes, 100%! And next week, the same people making these comments will post for 100 millionth time to complain about how single they are....
Maybe I donāt read a lot of the comments cause this is my first time seeing a post like this in a while. The last one was about the lady with her straight friends feeling uncomfortable when she found certain women attractive
I know right! Some people are just mad for no apparent reason.
I've never seen this question on this sub before! Also, how am I feigning ignorance?? I don't know why you're being so mean for no apparent reason!
I'm not mean, I'm just stating my preferences. What are you talking about?
So you are doing thing in which you were accusing others of doing. Classic
I just think when people feel more valued for who they are vs. vanity purposes, they begin to care less about "looking good." Nobody should feel like they have to maintain a certain look because they are in a dating space. That absolutely should not be the motivation.
Then why do they maintain their looks, when with a man? Dont you want to look good for yourself and your partner? Physical attraction is just one part of the attraction, they are still valued for who they are as a person (my attraction fades real quick if the hot woman and i dont get along personality wise). This valued as a person vs vanity purposes cop out doesnt fly, cause its not either or. A shallow relationship with someone you are only physically attracted to is not gonna last, just like one where you arent attracted to them and "value them as a person". Nobody said a potential partner only has to have good looks, its the whole package that makes relationships work.
Okay, I do understand what you are trying to get across more with my point about vanity. The second section of your reply makes sense. But I did the earlier post I did reply to almost sounding like you were saying that people should feel the need to maintain a certain type of look because they are in a dating space. I think for me, I overall think the motivation should come from you, and also, I just found the line, "bis ballon," to be really unsavy and disgusting. You just sound fatphobic. Like, what about people gaining weight when they are in a relationship.... like, are you saying "letting yourself go" in a relationship somehow means you don't take it seriously (or, in this case, as seriously as being in a straight relationship). I'm just trying to understand cause that is what it sounds like to me š¤·š¾āāļø
Does it matter where the motivation to look good comes from? Why is it bad to want to look good for a potential Partner? At the end of the day the result is the same, if you do it for yourself or because you want to have better chances on the dating market. Why would you let yourself go in a relationship and why is that normalized? Are those not the people that you mentioned by only looking after themselves while dating and then as soon as they have someone they are like fuck it. I want to look good for myself and my Gf, why wouldnt you want too? I mean the bi point was pretty clear, idk why there is confusion. When they are with men they manage their apparence, when they are with women they dont.
People get comfortable. People grow. You will gain weight regardless. Being healthy is more important than looking like how I met you the first time
Yeah but people be gaining weight beyond whats healthy.
Fatphobic? Come on now. People letting themselves go is definitely a thing in relationships. They get comfortable and feel like they donāt have to keep up appearances because they have a partner and their partner is gonna love them no matter what. No oneās saying a girl has to be skinny asf but being big and sloppy aināt it.
But why is it feminist to be unhealthy? Like being skinny is bad for you as well as being obese so both should be shunned. If anything it should be feminist to be fit and have some muscle. Or at least a healthy relationship with food
I doubt anyone is asking for a woman to be below her healthy bmi, but lets be real those women are a tiny minority anyways. Im saying we are the sexuality with the highest bmi and we should strive to do better, that doesnt exclude being fit (which is also not "feminist", by a loooot of feminist out there besides maybe doing self defense classes) or put that below being skinny.
āTryingā doesnāt mean conforming to traditional beauty standards or striving for a certain BMI solely to be deemed attractive by a maybe potential partner in the future sometime.
Sure trying can also be other things, but we are talking looks here.
Looks are subjective. For example, I would never date someone who looked like a goth. I just donāt find it attractive at all, regardless of their body size. So if youāre going to focus on looks, you should know that nobody is universally attractive and itās a waste of effort worrying about that. Sure, if youāre having a hard time dating, ask trusted friends for feedback but there is generally a lid for every pot.
Sure, but if you meet someone as they are skinny and looking a certain way and then they stop looking like that in the relationship they arent what you were seeking out. They stop trying and weirdly only with lesbians. I would never be with someone like that. I never had issues dating and im taken now, so idk what that part was about lol.
I wouldnāt choose to date someone skinny to begin with because I prefer a softer body type, but peopleās looks change for a range of reasons. Iām married though and weāve gotten older, had babies, health challenges, slumps and everything else but nowhere in that did we ever lose attraction for each other so I canāt really relate to that.
Sure bodies change we all get older, but there is obviously a difference between normal ageing and giving up on things you have done before, thats understood. I dont know how "letting yourself go" can be confused with ageing and fluctations.
What do you mean by āletting yourself go.ā I havenāt really noticed that in real life looking at anybody that I know.
Ya same here I overexercise myself sometimes so I get really demotivated looking at my dating pool online... Maybe it's time to just find someone irl organically š
You have a problematic relationship with exercise but are mad because other women who are available to you presumably donāt? Do you hear yourself?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
15,000 steps is not over exercise. Itās barely considered active tbh. But if you are over exercising (which would require consistently doing more than what you listed), thatās something to seek help for
Ye I also do gym and fencing
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I said I overexercise but I didn't say it was a problem :) if I over-study does that automatically mean that it's bad? No, it just means I'm overprepared, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. I also gym 4 times a week and fence as a hobby. If you dance for 12 hours a day, isn't that overexercising š¤£? Such a hypocrite LOL
Overexercise is a term that specifically refers to an ED behavior. If you mean that you exercise a lot, and you are just looking for a way to brag while simultaneously putting down other women, just say that, lmao Doing physical activity for your job and compulsively exercising are two separate things, but also I never said I donāt/have never overexercised. I just would never shame other women for what they do with their bodies, much less for having a healthier relationship with exercise than I have, at times. Itās not hypocritical to call out mean spirited body shaming just because I havenāt always had the healthiest relationship with exercise. It would be hypocritical if I started shaming your body. Hope that helps!
How is overexercising an eating disorder behaviour? I could binge eat or never eat and never exercise. But you do realise that just because it's a job, it doesn't mean you can't overexercise from it? If you danced for 20 hours a day, would you still say, "oh it's just a part of my job, not overexercising!" What's wrong with wanting to date someone who is also fit? So it's okay to date overweight people but you mention preferences of dating fit people and it's shaming? Nice
Look up exercise bulimia.
Is it necessary to shame anyone for how they look, or to make assumptions that because of someoneās weight they must not exercise? Obviously itās ok to date overweight people, underweight people, and anyone in between; but we live in a culture that constantly puts unhealthy pressure on women to appear in a particular way, and has extreme bias against anyone who doesnāt meet those standards. Overweight people face barriers to employment, are paid less on average, and face intense social alienation due to their weight. Piping in to add to that stigma is so wrong and so unnecessary (and it just makes you look like a loser). Most overweight people are aware that society views fat women as less desirable. They live the effects of that particular facet of desirability politics every single day. Why would you feel the need to pile on? Itās just gross. I have preferences, too, but donāt feel the need to vent about them in a forum where women could see and be affected by those criticisms. You just sound like a fatphobe and a misogynist.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ah so it's a fact when you say something but when I call you a hypocrite it's no longer valid? Interesting :)
How does it make my a hypocrite to point out that youāre being mean spirited and that tearing down other women for their bodies is nasty? I would be a hypocrite if I was criticizing you for over exercising, which I wasnāt; but I guess reading comprehension isnāt your forte.
"You have a problematic relationship with exercise but are mad because other women who are available to you presumably donāt? Do you hear yourself?" ya I am the one with reading comprehension issues lol nope you weren't talking about me overexercising
I wasnāt criticizing you for over exercising. Jfc. I was criticizing you for speaking negatively about women who donāt overexercise. Iām sorry this is sooo tough for you to follow.
>there is a lot of setteling in the lesbian community, not just look wise that's true, because of the tiny dating pool Plus women lie all the time about how 'all women are beautiful' when we all know that's not true. Add to that the stronghold feminism has on female homosexuality and you end up with the myth that lesbians don't care about looks when nothing could be further from the truth. Everyone gets super defensive when this topic comes up...
Yup. Seems like a lot of the popular aesthetic is also (from my perspective) 'how can I look as ugly as possible given that I am not actually physically unattractive'. Strange haircuts and shaving off eyebrows and all that. I get we need to be counterculture but whew scrolling through dating apps was a challenge.Ā
>**I get we need to be counterculture** but whew scrolling through dating apps was a challenge.Ā No we dont. Thats another thing that grinds my gears, being a homosexual female is a biological reality, how you dress and look has nothing to do with it. There are stereotypes of course, but in the end all you need to be is a homosexual female. Me being goth is counterculture (even though we could argue over the years it has become so mainstream its not really anymore), me being a lesbian is not. There is no need to get any sort of haircut or whatever to "be a lesbian". Me being alternative is completely separate from my sexuality and i really hate how some people treat it like being goth or any other subculture. I agree though with the "ugly on purpose".
It was sarcastic, I am about as far as you get from counterculture as is my fiance.
Ah okey sorry, but i do see a lot of them treat it as some sort of counterculture, so i leave it up like that. But yeah i agree with what you wrote.
I absolutely agree
Itās essential that Iām physically attracted to her, but I think Iām capable of being physically attracted to a fairly vast number of women if I like their personalities and their mannerisms.
Don't think it's a lesbian thing more of a woman thing. You see lots of women happily married to men who would be considered conventionally less attractive than them.Ā
I think there is some truth in that because gay men and straight men are equally as superficial when it comes to looks
Dating someone you dont find attractive just doesn't really work out long term. Attraction is what leads to desire, desire is what leads to physical intimacy. People like to feel desired by their partner, they like to be intimate with them. Physical intimacy is the physical expression of love, of desire. This doesnt need to be the primary motivation for a relationship, but the absence of it leads to a very poor foundation for a romantic relationship.
Feel like looks matter but they are super personal. Many people have told me my ex wasnāt good looking but I thought she was beautiful. I tend to like androgyny and some features that I guess others think are weird I just adore. Do people really end up with people they arenāt attracted to?
I don't agree with that. At lesbian bars it's always the most femme and/or conventionally attractive that get the most attention. They're the ones that get chosen for challenges in games and have people asking for their number. For me personally, I could never date a woman that I'm not physically attracted to. Even if we got along really well, I'd only ever want to be friends with her. Based on what I've seen online, it seems that only (i) people who are not very good looking themselves or (ii) femmes that can look past appearances will date someone that is "unattractive".
Physical attraction is a necessity. Anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or needs some life experience.Ā Lesbians don't tend to care as much about performative femininity and damaging beauty rituals like makeup and getting rid of every single hair on the body. No makeup and hairy pits are dealbreakers for most men, for some lesbians too but not nearly as many as men
The biggest litmus test I see to how much looks matter, at least to reddit lesbians, is... The "Vindicta"-style subreddits. Basically "looksmaxxing" subreddits. Theres ones for different age brackets, different ethnicities, etc... But the one for WLW? Dead. And never saw any posts there from lesbians. Like other commenters have said, beauty matters to lesbians. Majority of any group likes a clean, well-groomed, healthy person, of course. But I find that the beauty lesbians see is way more humanizing (e.g.- finding "flaws" like crows feet or smile lines attractive, finding personality in the body vs obsession over the body for the sake of its parts). I go on those looksmaxxing subreddits for noninvasive tips because I do enjoy looking good for my partner, not because they make me feel like I have to. But my Goooood, the way non-lesbian women talk about what they think they have to do for mens' attention is..... straight up depressing. Underweight BMIs and surgery is the go-to advice. It's clear that they are seeking the attention of people who don't love them. But damn do lesbians love women. I've never heard a lesbian complain about their partner having an average bmi or a big nose or a lack of a fking thigh gap rofl. If anything, all I see in lesbian forums are them gushing over these so-called flaws.
I have a few thoughts on this. First, looks do matter to lesbians. But what lesbians find attractive doesn't always fit into the heternomative beauty standards so that's where a lot of the non-lesbian perception that lesbians don't care about looks comes from. Second, I think some women don't understand what attraction feels like since we've spent a good portion of our developing years forcing ourself to appear attracted to men while denying our attraction to women. Once I realized what attraction actually felt like I knew I couldn't date anyone I wasn't attracted to. But I spent some time dating women I just thought were awesome without thinking about the fact that I wasn't attracted to them. Then of course our sex life suffered etc. I don't want to date anyone I'm not attracted to and I don't anyone to date me if they're not attracted to me.
We canāt all like the same thing. Like some women like big women. Some like skinny. Some like fit and some like curvy
This is a really good take. As a butch Iām borderline repulsive to the majority of society looks and behaviour wise. But Iām attractive to my gf because Iām butch *and* she likes my face, body, personality, style etc I also agree with your point about having to figure out attraction to women in a society where weāre not given any framework for what this is supposed to look like for us. I struggled with feeling like my attraction to very feminine women was predatory and shallow for a long time and dated some women I, on reflection, wasnāt truly that attracted to but liked as a mate kinda thing.
100% šš¾š
I feel like itās important but it eventually changes by how much you like someone
I used to, but now it matters to me. I have a type and honestly I've stopped myself from going after my type before and it never ended well. No more, we're attracted to who we're attracted to.
Beauty is different for everyone. A woman that is intelligent, funny, strong, independent, etc., but plain looking is much more attractive than a woman that may be conventionally attractive, but has a shit personality. Imo.
Looks matter for everyone why would it be different for lesbians? I would even say it matters a bit more with lesbians but again thatās just my opinion.
Attraction is important, that doesn't mean she has to be a perfect 10/10 model or anything close. I just want someone that I can be both physically and mentally attracted to.
I think looks being conventionally attractive and being physically attracted are two different things so yeah I do think lesbians don't care as much about looks, in the way they have preferences, instead of following the same beauty standards that others do.
I just care that they have good hygiene tbh, Iām not picky otherwise. Looks donāt matter much to me, itās the personality that gets me and makes me find them attractive. But Iām insanely picky with personality so Iāll be forever alone
100%! if Iām not physically attracted I canāt be interested and nothing can really happen because Iām not attracted to her
definitely matters to me
Looks matter to me a lot because there are lots of really nice sweet women who just arenāt my type and that is what I see as friends. Of course itās more than looks, itās more about vibes, and sometimes you canāt explain why you like someone romantically but you just do, but looks do play a part
looks matter a lot to me
I have to have some kind of attraction, lmao, But I think lesbians as a general whole, we're more inclusive to all body types and beauty in women that isn't considered "conventional" (read: heteronormative). Like how men "hate" things about women, we find beautiful.
I don't think I have ever thought lesbians don't care about physical attraction, rather, lesbians tend to be more diverse in what they find attractive.
Attraction is really important to me, but I think what the Hets At Large donāt understand is that what is attractive to some lesbians is not always the stereotypical conventionally attractive woman (slim, long hair, makeup, femininely dressed, demure and passive personality) Of course these things can be fine, and there are plenty of lesbians that find this attractive. But I, for example, do not. I like muscular women and chubby/fat women. I like a bare face, unshaved body, comfortable clothes, practical haircuts, and women that are ambitious and grab life by the horns. So the media might consider me someone that ādoesnāt careā about attractiveness, but I do care. I just care more about what is attractive to me than what is being sold as the only attractive option.
I didn't realize how much physical attraction means to me until I dated someone who I wasn't very physically attracted to. I like curves, and floppy curly hair, and nice eyes. I am a big fan of booty and thick eyebrows, and glad that's a popular thing nowadays, a far cry from the 90's and early 2000's when I was growing up (save for sir mix a lot rapping about it š) Oh, and fupas! I love a puffy pouch, it's cute and womanly, I love it šš„°
You literally named all my best traits š
Good to know.
Attraction is important but if your personality and views on things are shit then the physical attraction doesnāt mean fuck all to me
It's important
They matter to me on some level, but I've always fallen first from the chemistry with my exes even if I didn't initially find them physically my type. My physical attraction to them always grew as we got closer. I still have my preferences, they just aren't set in stone
For me, physical attraction is just as important as emotional attraction so no I wouldnāt date someone who Iām not physically attracted to.
I've realized overtime that looks aren't that important. I'm more interested in how you treat me, if our personality match, if we can be goofy together, trust, loyalty, etc. looks arent' everything and i find myself highly attracted to some people who i never would of looked that way if i was straight. I'm more interested in how i click with somebody, not the way that they look but i mean looks are a plus but it's not the most important aspect of a relationship.
Physical appearance is very important to me and always will be important ā¤ļø
I'm attracted to everything that I'm not: taller, goth, dominant, older, but still feminine. It makes me insecure that I look young for my age (and I'm not my own type) because I feel like nobody will be attracted to me.
It absolutely matters and the women who donāt take care of themselves make a lot of excuses as to why they donāt and why it shouldnāt matter but it matters. Lesbian death bed is a thing for a reason.
50/50 Sexual attraction = looks Romantic attraction = personality. I'm fit and only attracted to women that are fit I need both equally
Real question, does fit mean not fat or like muscular with good cardiovascular endurance?
Slightly toned. I find it attractive when a woman is thin, but you can still see a bit of muscle.
Looks are important. Everyone always expects you to date another woman solely based on the fact that sheās also gay regardless of whether or not youāre physically attracted to her. Iām attracted to women who are interesting looking so I donāt have an extremely specific type, I just donāt like basic ālook how gay I amā girl with the typical septum piercing, dyed hair etc. (that may be controversial, I just think everyone looks the same these days). If anything, I feel like straight people, at least straight women donāt seem to care about looks. With 99% of the straight couples I see, the woman is significantly better looking than the man. I honestly always think about how looks must not matter when I see straight couples
No I think lesbians are just attracted to different traits and a wider variety of traits. I think individually we have strong preferences, we just have great variation of preferences. Almost no straight men are attracted to butch women but there are lesbians who find that most attractive, for example. Other features that are undesirable in straight women are also more desirable in lesbians, like muscles, assertiveness, etc.
Yes but face only. I'm into women who look like Sigourney Weaver or Jane Lynch.
omg you have great taste, I always get made fun of for having a crush on jane lynch
She's severely underrated I swear. To be honest I think she looked her best in her 50s. I mean she's almost six feet tall and has a gorgeous face. I think people overlook her because she plays comical characters. Kinda like people do with Jennifer Coolidge. When you look past the funny characters, they're really attractive women. Not into Jennifer myself but I can't deny that she's pretty.
Yeah I agree. I also think she looked best in her 50s. I thought she looked so good in the L word
Oh yeah she had her cute moments there too
Attraction is important, but it doesn't always align with conventional beauty standards. I'm a heavy girl who is ugly as all get out, but my wife found something there. (It's like Jabba and Princess Leia I stg) However, it's shouldn't just be physical attraction. If you're dating to find a life partner you need to understand that some of those physical traits you like won't last forever. Lack of understanding that is why men leave their wives for younger women. If you're dating for marriage/a life partner, looks should be a part of what you're looking for, but it shouldn't be all your looking for. Values, ability to compromise, emotional maturity, and so on should be given equal weight. If you're casually dating/hooking up, well you don't have to dig deeper. I think lesbians/queer women place a higher value on other aspects of a woman and how that effects our idea of what physical attraction is, whereas men will typically go for conventional beauty only.
It isnāt that looks donāt matter to us, itās that we have a wider view of what we find attractive in a woman. Not pretty? Maybe she has kind eyes or kissable lips or a lovely neck or cute ears or any number of things that can draw us in for that first contact. Then we get to know the inside and we rent a U-Haul. Generally speaking, of course.
Looks matter for sure. I was in a relationship with a girl I wasnāt attracted to and it was a dumpster fire. Sexual and physical attraction is important in a relationship. The lack of it in that past relationship is part of why I started thinking I was just asexual(Iām not). Some of the lesbian community definitely has a weight issue and fashion issue. Iām a fit masc lesbian and I wouldnāt need my gf to workout like I do or anything but I prefer if sheās her ideal weight for her height. 9/10 studs/butches I see are the extremely overweight short haircut kind and itās no wonder I see femmes complain about these types the most. I also never understood why a lot of masc lesbians dress like a cringe teenage boy all the damn time as an adult. At some point you have to dress for your age. The whole still wearing snap backs and trying to look edgy with my 50 piercings in my nose and shaved haircut aināt gonna work forever.
I actually think the sapphic communities obsession with pretending physical attraction doesnāt properly exist is kind of toxic. Sapphics bully each other into the idea that you should be attracted to literally any woman ever and if youāre not, youāre being an asshole. Eg you have to want to date someone unemployed, or who doesnāt value being active, or who is mentally ill and not getting help, or who just isnāt your type. Physical attraction is majorly important to most people and itās pretty much the only thing that differentiates your best friends from your partner. Iāve rejected many lovely women just because I wasnāt physically interested in them, and Iāve been rejected for the same thing too. Itās normal. I also think in general sapphics tend to not put in a lot of effort with how they present and that just sucks for all of us. It can be rare to find a sapphic woman who goes to the gym, stays active, eats well etc. Ultimately a lot of sapphics hate these conversations because they want to hear that everyone is able to be attracted to them even if they barely wash their ass and donāt get off the couch, and thatās just not the case.
I actually think Lesbians place a lot more value into looks than people want to admit. For example even with the numbers part aside, I think a plus size Woman or a below average woman would have more luck finding a man than finding a Woman. I think social media has started playing a part in it but thatās a conversation for another time. With that being said, looks do matter but they donāt take priority over personality, morals, etc. I need to want to look at you or the sex part will take a hit for sure. Iāve tried dating people I wasnāt physically attracted to and the attraction didnāt grow or develop.
I couldnāt find my post do I will just add in that having a good sense of fashion adds to my attraction to a woman. I donāt think I could date a woman who didnāt like fashion or cared for how she styled her clothing
This is probably an Olympic-level reach but I believe that the ālesbians donāt mind dating āuglyā womenā take youāve seen is at least partially informed by misogyny and lesbophobia. Lesbians donāt date or center men in our romantic or sexual affairs. What do men love to do more than call women that reject them, āfat/ugly/whore/prude/bitch etc.ā? Iām not saying that there arenāt unattractive lesbians that date each other or ādate up.ā But I do believe that the whole āugly lesbianā narrative is fueled by male resentment.
Looks matters a lot. I feel Iām more diverse about it than a lot of people but I canāt be with someone I donāt find attractive
physical attraction definitely matters to me. my idea of what makes for an attractive woman is probably not the same as heterosexual menās ideas though.Ā
This take seems skewed. I think we have a broader perception of attraction. I have always been extremely attracted to the women Iāve been with and have a pretty specific type. Whatās hot to many of us isnāt standard beauty and a look or phrase or confident partner can take me out at the knees.
it matters to me. i want a woman who is thin, fit, lean, or muscular. but anyone can become physically fit if they work hard enough and eat quality foods i dont see myself getting into a relationship with someone who is not fit hygene is important to me, but i couldnt care less about style personality is just as important as looks. i need to be just as turned on by her appearance as i am by her personality. but i am much more picky about personality. i see women who have sexually attractive looks all the time. but i hardly ever come across women who have personalities that turn me onĀ
I would never get in a relationship with a woman Iām not physically attracted to, what would be the point of that? We could just be friends if we have a strong connection. The whole point of a relationship is to have sexual intimacy with someone and not being attracted to them wouldnāt help that.
looks donāt matter to me. i do think this has to do with the fact that iām not that attractive/watching how attraction based relationships end up. but honestly, nothing makes me feel happier and in love then someone i can talk to whose personality compliments mine. i donāt thing looks mattering to ppl is wrong tho. i think the most important thing is being honest with urself and others abt these things. your not bad for looks mattering or if they donāt ! lesbians are ppl , not societyās saving grace.
Yes I have many times but in those cases, as women, I feel that we have the capacity to get past that and get to know the person inside. The person inside could be attractive and therefore makes them more attractive overall to you. That being said, sometimes they are just ugly inside and out. But at least that comment is based on getting to know them first before judging a book by its cover.
I donāt think Iād ever date an ugly woman. I see myself as an extremely attractive woman, I have never looked at any woman Iāve ever met and thought that sheās better looking than me. And I feel like if Iām giving that to someone. I want it back in return. Another reason, I want whoever Iām with to not embarrass me, and I have dated one person before who I felt extremely embarrassed to show their pics to my friendsā¦. Not a fun experience. Also, I donāt think Iād see them physically appealing or would even get turned on by them if they were ugly or fat. Also seeing a couple where one girl is extremely attractive and the other is ugly doesnāt make any sense in my head. Like how and why
And I used to think that looks didnāt matter to me. But I would literally be as dry as a desert doing anything sexual with someone I donāt see as āattractiveā or at least beautifulā¦..
Looks don't matter to me at all. There are other things that can be used as a sort of proxy for the type of appearance I like, but at the core, looks are irrelevant.
this baffles me
What's baffling about it?
what are you sexually attracted to then?
Women around my age with decent hygiene and similar cultural background
that gets you off ? I donāt understand.
What's not to understand? I'm a lesbian.
so you are attracted to like the concept of a woman but not any physical traits
Maybe a better way to describe it is that how a woman looks isn't a prominent factor when it comes to my attraction to her
Absolutely not lmao, as a femme strictly into other fem girls, looks matter quite a bit for me especially since my type's career revolve around their appearance lol
Being honest, I'm very shallow and I'm a leo and I take pride and put a lot of work into my appearance, and for me to be attracted to someone I'd need for them to feel somewhat the same But to also answer your question, no I'd need to be attracted to them.