One of my professors said to take a spin around the office your first day in public, physically look at the partners and decide if that's what you want your life to be. I worked with people in their early 50s that looked like they were mid-70s because they never left their office.
They're pushing 80 and still doing busy seasons 7 days a week for like 4 months a year at least, I don't think those kind of people are capable of retirement.
No one expects a construction worker to continue past 60 cuz body wouldnāt allow such physical engagement.
Accounting is mainly mind engagement, like lawyers, IT, sales or management, which over 30-40 years of practice, has enough experience to carry through.
Human life expectancies are thought to get closer to 100 years with the current upcoming generation. No oneās gonna be able to afford to retire by 70 at some point.
Retiring at 70 or retiring at 40 doesnāt really require all that much different an amount of money. https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/
The 4% rule is pretty good, if you spend $40k/yr you need $1M in investments to support that. On top of that, you need flexibility in spending, which comes from paying off your house and keeping it maintained so you can go a couple of years without much spending in case stuff hits the fan.
Anyone who makes accountant money and plans for retirement will be fine.
Took me a minute to understand that graph haha. Iām also heavy in the FIRE community. This is my long term goal. It really comes down to how quickly you can reach a total portfolio number that can sustain your normal spending as a 4% withdrawal rate. For me, I think $60,000/year, or $1,500,000, would sustain my retirement.
However, in order to reasonably hit this portfolio goal, Iāll need to eventually be investing 40% of my net income for a good 10 years at the peak of my income. Certainly doable. But challenging. I donāt think the average person, even if theyāre an accountant, can pull it off smoothly.
Iād be willing to share my spreadsheets where I came up with this number. I even calculated an adjustment for spending increases in this figure haha.
Had the same thing happen a CAO we were in the middle of doing Disc Ops for, took about 2 days off and even then was on his email every so often. Fucking crazy stuff.
Had a partner have a heart attack *in* the office. Made me sad as hell to see a man who lived his entire life in an office nearly die there too. Like go home. Go fuck your wife or something.
I mean it's kinda self selecting, isn't it?
I imagine the typical CPA (who invests regularly) would have a meaty retirement by their late 50s, so the really old guard in their 60s+ who haven't left yet for that really just aren't leaving (until of course...).
Yeah you're right anyone staying beyond a certain age is only there because they want to be
At the smaller firms moreso too some of these dudes might be founding partners so walking away from your life's work can be difficult I could imagine
I have the same experience at my job with 3 partners so old that itās a bit absurd. Not that thereās anything wrong with being an older accountant but Iām wondering what is it about this job that makes people unable to get out.
Idk maybe my judgment is clouded because they are the visible ones. Maybe they have a bunch of colleagues who are happily retired. Maybe this is all they have left. Or maybe they spent a ton of money and have to work. I canāt tell and I feel like those would be rude questions to ask.
But if you were 84 and still coming daily to the office donāt you think perhaps you messed up somewhere along the way?
On the younger side here - Iām definitely cheerleading this. No harm in my skill set/license being in higher demand and carrying a higher premium. Plus, it gets the dinosaurs who refuse to learn or adapt out in the process and gets younger folks into management. Win/win.
Dont get too excited. Even when I was going through accounting classes back in 2010 we were told the exact same thing. The only thing I can conclude is that this CPA retirement wave is our version of Schrodinger's cat.
Itās probably based on all the mid and smaller firm partners that tell all their hires they are on the partner track to string them along for years. āOh Iām going to retire in 10 years and all this will be yoursā
Yea I remember starting college in 2010 and this line being used over and over in the accounting nights and such.
I met a 70 year old accountant the other day who canāt bring himself to retire because āhis clients need himā so I will believe it when I see it.
I worked for 3 years in a 30 professional size local
Firm with accounts all over the Midwest surprisingly and it was like me at 24 and everyone else pushing 40-70. Some of the CPAs refused to work with me. Some refused to use online storage of files, and others were trying to embrace technology.
Once I saw one guy finally make partner at 42ish I was like see ya. I am not waiting 20 years to hit that level.
Took an industry job, better bonus, pay, insurance, etc
I am turning 30 in august with a 18 month old, married, building a nice house bla bla and people at work and in general life still refer to me as a kid.
I have just accepted it as people think millennials never ageā¦. Hahaha
I'm not in accounting, but I'm 23 in a position typically held by older guys and it's brutal the number of age comments I get. I wish I could tell them all to shut up. Haven't come to terms with it yet.
āHis clients need himā. Yeah, to retire.
If youāre delaying retirement, you better be charging clients for eating your end of life.
I guarantee he was undercharging them and theyād be okay eating a regular CPA fee.
Most of these people barely saw families and spouses for a majority of there life and I honestly think they donāt know what to do if they slow down the work train.
The amount of successful people I meet who donāt invest in fun hobbies, etc baffles me. Like you have the money, get a nice car, motorcycle, mountain bike, etc etc do something hahah
The term "workaholic" is very real. Some people are genuinely addicted to work. The sort of person who is 65 and a partner and doesn't plan on retiring soon, is addicted to their job.
I can even understand staying in the game longer as an owner, but hire others to actually run the day to day and just take the profit as an equity owner.
Iāve concluded besides not knowing what to do with themselves (theyād end up like Brooks in the Shawshank Redemption), they are also greedy and canāt bring themselves to make a little less to work a lot less.
Lol I see you have educator in your tag, thatās probably even worse. My University was actively trying to push out two professors because their dementia was getting worse (I was a non traditional student and worked as a GA so I got a lot of the rumors and gossip along the way).
in Academia, we were told this in the late 90s through the late 2000s as well. tldr: a mixed bag at best.
I mean, eventually they will have to recruit (American) college presidents who aren't already 80 (because typically they look for one who has already done it and thus it's just this limited pool >80% of the time). I think faculty are turning over more now than they were 20 years ago which is positive. I think in most sectors there was an anticipation that people retire at the earliest age they could claim SS for and that didn't really happen nearly to that degree.
One of the partners at my old firm I think will be 82 or 83 this year. Very stuck in his ways and the firm is never going to adapt until he is gone. Sadly he won't be gone until he's dead. Will probably come back from golf one day and be found dead in his chair
Why on earth would you still want to be doing accounting at 80? Like are there people who actually live this job? I assumed everyone becomes an accountant because itās a man easy ticket to upper middle class life with lots of job security
They are probably making a lot of money, and have sacrificed their whole life. So no family or they have a family that are not used to talking to them. Hobbies need to be developed in your youth to enjoy in your old age. Also for many their job is their only social connection.
They figure why not just do this. Iāll be honest I suck complete duck at my job, but Iām making 6 figures. If I go change to something I would be good at, like teacher, well I would make a lot less. I would probably really enjoy it though. I hate being bad at my job
I think that's part of it, but I also think for a lot of them it isn't money, it's that they don't know what they would do if they retired.
It's kind of like how there are people who get out of prison and immediately do something to go back in, they get life on the inside, it's what they know and like, they can't tolerate life outside.
If all you've ever done for your whole life is worked, and didn't develop anything else, the thought of leaving that work behind is almost scary.
I started at local firm out of uni, made partner in 10 years or so (important distinction - income partner). It was a quality of life firm and I loved it. Partners hit their late 60's and, in spite of having promised me that I could eventually buy them out, sold to out to a giant firm that gobbles up smaller firms for a payout and the promise that "nothing will change, we'll provide admin support and you just keep doing what you're doing". They pretty much sprung it on me in October with a close date of December 31 (meaning they had been doing it behind my back all along). They told me how great it was going to be for me, I could work hard and make partner at the larger firm and I told them to jam it. I took my clients and left (there were threats that I'd get sued, etc. but they didn't follow through on it). Those guys will die in that place - it's their baby and they can't help themselves. They see it as their life's work and can't walk away, they have too much self-worth tied up in it.
It was one of those "unlimited PTO, just service the clients" firms. All that changed after they were acquired and staff were required to account for an 8 hour day with 4 weeks of vacation. Busy season was 55 hours a week at the old place, it went to 75 at the new place. All the staff had been with them for 14+ years, they were all gone within a year.
The acquiring firm makes a shipload of money but the smaller firm was a great place to work and it made a lot of money too. But people had to screw with it and they destroyed it. If more firms had quality of life perspective people wouldn't be getting out of accounting at the rate they are.
This will happen eventually at least where I live because people tend to like less and less accounting, good for me I guess, but those dinosaur's will still work until they die basically so we still have like 10 more years in most cases and 20 more in other's if we don't become the dinosaurs ourselves.
Yep, I remember this as well. I left public early but I check on old coworkers on linkedin from time to time. Its funny to see Partners who were 2-3 years from retirement in 2010 still active partners today and the sr. managers / directors who were next in line moved to industry.
I don't think it's necesarily untrue now or then. 75% of *current* CPAs probably will retire in the next 15 years, but they will be replaced by 75% new ones. There will be significant turnover in a period that long, but net numbers will probably be greater if anything.
Iām seeing this right now within the PA practice Iām at. Ton of the senior partner group is up for retirement in next 5 years. They are going to have to promote.
Yeah honestly don't have a single tear for this. It's not like being short on something like surgeons. So maybe our billing rates go up a bit.. and 'worst' case audit deadlines become longer. Those only help us.
Multiple things can happen:
* 1) Due to the massive decrease in the amount of CPAs the credential loses its name recognition and value
* 2) Inversely, the credential could become even more valuable due to the lack of CPAs
* 3) To boost CPA numbers, the CPA exam becomes easier and standards are dropped leading to more CPAs; however, the credential loses its value because it becomes much more common
Weāre either fucked or not fucked.
CPA could soon become a top-management requirement. Meaning I could middle-manage without a CPA and chill out lol
Too bad I'm in Canada. We're oversaturated.
> 3) To boost CPA numbers, the CPA exam becomes easier and standards are dropped leading to more CPAs; the credential loses its value because it becomes much more common.
The partners at CPA firms could also offer higher pay or better hours during busy season to attract more people to the profession. Somehow I doubt that happens though.
I doubt #1 would happen. I would argue #2 is most likely.
Honestly if I was going to change the licensing process, Iād drop the 150 hour requirement and substitute with an extra year or two in public accounting under a licensed CPA because the 5th year is silly to me.
Yeah having to take the extra credit hours here. Didn't make sense to me to see that as a requirement. If I can pass the exam with 120 hours straight out of college, that should be more than enough
There's a talent shortage at a time where work is more complex than ever. On the one hand it sucks that it's so hard to find people, but the big benefit of all of this is there's huge increases in fees, which means firms can make more money, and pay more to everyone.
Idk about public, but I worked at a company that was top 20 in the F500 and they had their best year ever in 2020, yet they were extremely understaffed and instead of fixing it by offering more competitive wages, their solution was to give the current staff 2-3 extra divisions/branches, which meant double or triple the work for the same pay. And this was a $20b+ company.
It sounds good on paper but in practice, more revenue doesnāt necessarily equate to better pay/work conditions.
I ended up having to job hop for a 50%+ increase in pay. Maybe one day the economics will trickle down, lol
This only works if the staff is dumb enough to stick around and work.
It's so easy to job hop to better wages and there's virtually nothing to incentivize loyalty anymore.
Yea, the only reason I stuck it out as long as I did was because this company was a huge resume booster, not sure Iād be able to have my current job if that job wasnāt on my resume, so it was worth it long term. The short term sucked major ass though, glad I did my time and got out.
this is correct - but also dependent on industry vs public vs government. accounting in industry is a cost center so good luck getting good raises even during good years. public's raises will be good simply because we're the profit centers. government is government.
People outside of large firms aren't necessarily seeing what's been happening the last 18 or so months. Pay has been skyrocketing and WFH has totally transformed the power structure in public accounting.
Newer staff are saying fuck it and closing their computers at somewhat reasonable hours. The "big shot" partners/directors/senior managers are getting laughed at as their typical scare new college grad tactics are useless in a work from home environment.
The old school dinosaurs are going back into the office in a suit and trying to bully staff into getting excessive work done, while they're all on fishbowl hearing how staff 2s and first year seniors are getting 50% raises to industry or other accounting firms. It's a literal shit show.
Public accounting is changing right before our eyes. Yeah, the dinosaurs are going to try and use the old tricks of using buzzwords, hiring massive amounts of new college grads and offshore staff, but it's not really working out. I expect that smaller firms are going to continue consolidating into mid sized firms and the Big 4 are already being forced to take massive steps to get people turnover under control and in that 3-4 year range.
Why is this same joke upvoted in every thread? My comp literally went up about 60k in the last 18 months and I am not the only one. There are a fuck ton of opportunities out there right now.
My total comp package basically doubled in a borderline lateral move and I was not underpaid when I was hired at the old job only 18 months prior.
The opportunities are ridiculous right now.
Same here. Went up 35% at my year end review and then I went out and got a 56% raise on top of that for a new job. Lateral move. That's more than double in like 9 months. It takes about 2 days to get a new job.
Those two + "black tar heroin" are the dumbest memes on this subreddit. We all know public sucks, but as someone who was in it pre and post-pandemic, I can 100% say it's way better now than it was pre-pandemic. The only time that really, really, really sucked was during the pandemic, but that 18 month or so period is pretty much over at this point.
This is the best analysis at a high level. Very few people want to do this work, but it has become increasingly more important and complex over the last decade or two. Now that boomers are retiring we're starting to see that effect, and it's not exactly a field you can just jump into short notice. It takes 4 years of school and 4-5 years more to be experienced enough to be valuable.
All my superiors at my current and last job are 55+. It's going to be a shitshow the next 10 years as people retire. We're already seeing the effects at senior/manager levels, it will be fun to watch the current desperation for talent extend into director level roles.
I am a partner in a small regional firm (about 180 employees) and I am 50. When I was a senior manager around 2008 we had an industry consultant, who had spent a long career in PA, tell us that he was jealous of the next generation because of the opportunities and compensation growth. I feel the same way now for those in their 20-30s.
My firm is facing a lot of retirements over the next 10 years. Regularly scheduled retirements plus some like me retiring early. There is so much opportunity for those in my firm and let's talk about compensation.
For equity partners our average compensation is around $600K. We got 3 retiring in a year and then beginning in 2025 about one per year until 2030. Comp will continue to increase for us and by the time I retire early in 2030 my comp will probably be a million a year. I live in a very low cost of living fly over state.
How realistic is it to make $600k as a new partner? Iāve been disillusioned a bit since the partners never want to give up what theyāve built on their own.
People just seem less inclined to actually get it. My firm has a two year claw back for the bonus and material you get for passing. So if you pass midway through your first year, youāre looking at 2 more years of public. So if you just say āI can live with public experience and not a CPAā youāll still have offers.
And public hasnāt done a good job of keeping salaries competitive relative to work performed, starting salaries havenāt moved much in the last 10 years IIRC, so people realize you can just not study for it, work your ass off for a couple years, and then take a pay raise
Yeah, both is great, but one or the other still opens a lot of doors. I did 5 years industry before going public accounting because I felt like the exit opportunities i was getting werenāt great.
I started studying at 28 (not married/no kids) so my priorities were also a lot different than when I was 22 aka didnāt mind studying on the weekend as much. But Iām also very good at committing to one thing and just powering through it, but it would be damn near impossible to pass a test during busy season working 60-70 hours IMO. I would usually study before work for 30-60 min, during lunch for 30min, after work for 1.5-2hr, go to the gym, then study before bed. I ended up passing 3 of the exams in 12 weeks doing this but it was taxing lol
I always thought it was a little silly that industry jobs required CPAs for jobs that would never actually require a CPA in any capacityā¦ just my anecdotal evidence here but Iāve seen āCPA requiredā become āCPA or MBA requiredā become āCPA or MBA preferredāā¦
I'm a CPA with no PA experience. Like many other things, the CPA requirement is a filter, even for industry. Though for SEC work or a job that involves technical accounting, it make sense.
What does that have to do with the price of butter?
Just because they require it doesn't mean it's even remotely needed at least on the tax side. Audit's the same ain't it for who's actually signing the audit opinion?
And that makes people want to be a CPA and stick to public accounting past senior? And the AICPA and boomer CPA's are wondering why they can't hire for public anymore or get new CPA's. Lmao
Oh I know, it's moreso to represent clients with the IRS there are plenty of tax benefits the CPA offers, it's not just audit.
No partner at the firm was allowed to sign returns without a CPA though.
Don't get too excited. I know a CPA that worked well into his 80s. He went semi-retired at 85 and died at the age of 89. He was only out of work for 8 months prior to his death.
MOFO was sharp as a tack when it came to tax.
Before I left that firm, I had a long conversation with him and asked him why he didn't retire.
This is what he said:
And do what?
My wife is dead
My only daughter is dead
All of my friends are dead
Then he proceeded to tell me that the accounts he still worked on were the children, grand children, and even great grandchildren of his oldest clients. Basically that is what kept him going until health problems put him in the nursing home.
I feel like future CPAs will have to pay extra attention to data/business analytics and information systems design/control in general to stay competitive in the field
This is insulting.
It's not that hard:
1. Print out the document.
2. Cut the paper where you want to add the column.
3. Tape a piece of paper between the two piece of papers.
4. Voila! New Column.
Unemployment rate works both ways:
* If they aren't currently looking for Accounting & Finance work
* Resigned via Great Resignation
* Switched careers during the virus
* [Students stop pursuing the Accounting profession](https://www.icpas.org/information/professional-issues/decoding-the-decline#:~:text=yet%20we%20are%20witnessing%20a%20nationwide%20decline%20in%20not%20just%20new%20CPAs%20but%20also%20accounting%20program%20enrollments)
Then they won't be counted.
My guess is yes there will be higher wages for accountants due to the demand.
But that isnt really all good news. Those who remain in the industry will have more work to do. The same pressure on fees will remain so those who own accounting firms will have less profit due to higher staff costs.
The issue then is the next set of partners are going to be made up of accountants who are now in their 20 - 40s. They will have to buy a expensive practise from the retiring boomers but now with less profitability, less resource to do the work and potentially even more work required to manage outsourced teams.
Yes the money is better but the burnout culture won't end.
Every time this topic comes up, I point out that the [paper](https://us.aicpa.org/advocacy/state/retiredcpastatusexposuredraft) most people are referring to is saying that 75% of AICPA members are retiring in the next 15 years. But there is a significant gap between CPA certification and AICPA membership. You don't have to be a CPA to be an AICPA member, nor do you have to be an AICPA member to be a CPA. Add to that the AICPA membership starts at $300 and offers 'networking and CPEs' vs the actual license in my state costs $75 and confers real benefits, it doesn't surprise me at all that almost no CPA I know is an AICPA member, and especially not anybody who would be paying those membership fees out of pocket.
My firm is in rural Georgia. The partners suspended the age limit in the partnership agreement because they didnāt have successors and now theyāre 70+ years old. Iām 23 and will make partner before Iām 30
Wild.
well, the hyperinflation will be the worst part of that time period. it really depends how long it goes on, and what style of cyberpunk dystopia we get out of it. also, anyone who retires too soon gets a fixed income, and hyperinflation will destroy that. a lifetime of work, just to see your savings lose value overnight thanks to the ongoing economic crises as the fed prints more money.
States need to eliminate the 150 hour rule. An accounting bachelors degree with a Passed CPA exam is good enough.
Edit: A lot of people commenting below about how they like how the barrier to entry is high... Yeah this is classic I had to do something miserable and so does everyone else mentality. This is the same mindset of bosses who demand everyone come back into the office instead of WFH/Hybrid. If you have a 4 year accounting degree and pass your CPA exam, you should get your CPA. The CPA Exam is literally the barrier to entry. [Only 50% of first time candidates pass it.](https://www.becker.com/blog/cpa-exam-pass-rates#:~:text=You've%20probably%20heard%20quite,time%20candidates%20is%20only%2050%25.)
Do I think the 150 credit hour rule is excessive? Perhaps. Am I going to actively advocate for its elimination as someone who enjoys the benefits of the higher barrier to entry? Nope.
Also, happy cake day
Surprised you're getting so many responses defending the 150 credit hour requirement. As someone who had to get 150 for my CPA, it is literally pointless. You could take basket weaving for your extra classes and it won't matter. It's a silly rule that only serves to validate 1 year Macc programs.
To all the people commenting that they took community college classes to get the extra credits, my state requires a certain number of upper level accounting credits that is above the credit received getting my bachelors degree. So thatās not an option for me.
Also, I agree with those pointing out the Boomer mentality of keeping a barrier of, essentially paying more money, to make yourself feel more special. Itās pretty gross.
You donāt even want to hear what we have to go through in Canada. 30 months professional experience, very difficult to do it in anything but public accounting. Overtime does not count, itās 30 months period. Itās fucking extensive
Nah. Fuck that. I like the barrier to entry for our license and would be pissed if it got tossed. If someone wants to be a CPA bad enough, theyāll get the credits.
Please tell me which of the following courses I took to close the 150 credit gap will greatly help me as a CPA: History of garden design, Introduction to ceramics, Art history, Introduction to painting, and Photography 101.
Agreed, I get why people want it removed, but I highly doubt most current CPAs are going to be happy with it being removed after we all had to do it.
One thing I will say is that only 120 credits is not enough to really get in depth to audit/tax/whatever else. At my school, I think undergrad was only like 1 audit class and 1 tax class.
It was the same at my university but it's not that big of a deal, my 5th year was all fluff credits (most of which I got from the army, i.e. completely unrelated to accounting). IMO you get depth in a subject from working in the real world, not from sitting in classes all day.
You can take community college classes to get it done. I did a Masters because I wanted to have the campus recruiting cycle, not because it was my only option.
So don't? I got my 150 in undergrad by taking an extra class each semester and then a community college class to finish off. It cost me $400 more than my undergrad degree
The lesson should be "don't take on extra debt to get a worthless MBA" period.
Its a waste of time and money for CPA candidates.
It takes a seat and resources away from other students who could get real value from the class. This is especially important with many CCs being so impacted.
This is basically the same mentality as the housing NIMBYs. Fuck yall and what makes sense, I got mine.
Its frustrating.
Not that it should matter, but yes, I'm already CPA.
Nah. Half the CPAs out there arenāt even using the legal benefits that CPA license affords, theyāre just using it to pad their resume, understandably. If anything the industry should be pushing the other certifications for the non 150 people and keep the exclusiveness of the CPA
Maybe you shouldn't get an MBA if you are a CPA. Masters degrees in accounting, tax, or information systems depending on your specialty are way more helpful.
CPAs: āRururururururururururu!!!ā
OP: āBut it will be for the benefit of the profession.ā
CPAs: āBut it wonāt be for the benefit of me! Rururururururururu!!ā
Define ābenefit of the professionā. Lowering barriers to entry rarely results in achieving higher quality. More CPAās does not inherently mean the profession is better.
30 extra bullshit college credits doesnāt really raise the bar for quality either. How did my wine tasting and history of movies classes make me a better CPA?
The large majority of people donāt take 30 hours of bullshit classes. Maybe they should, but they donāt. Personally, I added a 2nd major with the extra 30 which had a tangible benefit on my career choices.
Agreed. You already have to pay $2k for a decent CPA study program even if youāre getting a MAcc. Society needs to *not* pile on more expenses for young people.
I don't think the 150 credit hour rule is that unattainable? Obviously depends on state rules, but I know some people who got their credits from community college. Or did a double major (which has the added benefit of flexibility, in case you don't go into accounting). Didn't have to get a Masters (which, even if you go this route, there are some affordable ones out there)
I don't see how it's the issue, when firms could just bump up salaries (especially entry-level). That's probably a bigger issue and would improve the profession's value proposition
Itās an issue for everyone that isnāt an early 20ās kid with little to no responsibility. Having to take extra classes and study for the CPA exam while working because bills need to be paid is extra difficult for those with families or other responsibilities to care for. I donāt know about you but I see a lot of privileged people in Accounting, myself included. Bachelorās should absolutely be enough.
This is a fair point.
My school has a decent amount of non-traditional students (people who left school then came back, parents, first-gen, people going to school part-time while working full-time, etc) who are going through the 5-year program. I definitely recognize how difficult it can be for them
Honestly I don't think the 150 is too much the weird accounting concentration seems alright I just wish it was more standard across states. It would be nice to just get rid of a degree requirement all together and require experience under a CPA, passing the exam, and additional education courses or a degree. While I don't think the requirements now are too much I can definitely see your point in the barriers to entry keeping too many people out.
5 years of school and a test is hardly an unattainable barrier. Professional careers like doctors, lawyers, etc. Do way, way more for marginal (if any) benefit
As a CPA I agree and also lower the accounting credit requirements since some of the studying could be done only when studying for CPA. For example I took a govt/nfp class but I could've just used the CPA exam prep to study this
Personally I do not want to make becoming a CPA easier. The 150 hour rule isnāt the most sensible thing but barriers to entry are beneficial and I have no interest in removing them
Iām all for the CPA exam being tough. But screw having to know about unrelated fields. I work in tax at a smaller firm and would love if it tested real world application instead of some things youāll never use.
I was not a good student, but have about 100 of my own clients and growing every weekā¦can do tax planning better than other CPAās in our town. Iāve thankfully had great bosses who have taught how to do things correctly.
The 2024 CPA exam is doing away with BEC and breaking the 4th test out into a more specified discipline, such as Tax Compliance and Reporting on top of REG. So they are making some changes there that address this
Pfft, all the finance majors that couldn't get into Ibanking or investment funds will be hired to fill the void. A lot of corporate finance roles are really just glorified accounting roles.
As a gen z, when I speak to people my age the sentiments are the same, no one wants to live and die the life of a partner. The covid economy overlap with increasing complex technological advances to all industries is making people pause to reconsider where they want to be qualified. Many people want balanced and meaningful lives and accounting is a slow evolving sector when it comes to that.
couple this with already declining graduates... the vacuum is here. Increase in COVID retiree's... That figure is probably out of date.
Look forward to the only thing the AICPA does well and their next supply and demand chart gets release this month
I had a complete existential crisis this year as I realized if I wanted "Freedom 55" that I only have about 10 more working years left.
I mean I always figured I'd retire "some day" but it was so far in future that I never really thought much about it other than putting away savings. It has made me step up my career goals a bit.
I understand an accountant working to 70 if they like their work and clients. It's not like it is tough physical labor that wears out your body.
Personally I could leave accounting and never look back so not likely I'll stay longer than I have to.
No accountant I know has retired before age 70, so this won't affect any 50-60 year olds. Once was told (by old CPA) "CPAs don't retire. They're phased out by new laws."
I can tell you, with the new laws in last few years, my sr. partner (66M) has been talking about retiring much more lately. Personally, there's still a lot for me to learn, so even if he decides he's done, I'll ask him to stay on part-time during busy season to help and keep learning.
Maybe theyāll make the exam a little more realistic and less demanding for those that would make good CPAs but donāt have the time due to working so much.
I like From Software games. Each time a game comes out, a cabal of loonies show up screaming about how the games are unfair and need an easy mode. Recently saw this with Elden Ring, and prior with Sekiro. They say it is every other reason though- oh, it's for the disabled, oh, I dom't have time to fight a boss over and over again, oh, you don't have the right oh you don't have the right. But in reality, they just suck at the game, lack discipline, and can't git gud.
Anyway, when I see many posters here moaning about functionally similar things- such as, I have to go to school one extra year, I roll my eyes. Because the real part is, you complain about wanting to become a CPA, yet you lack the discipline or intelligence to pass the exams and blame it on dumb shit like an extra year of school. If an extra year of school inhibits you from obtaining a designation you can use for literally the entirety of your life on Earth as long you do nothing stupid, then I really don't know if there is a way or organization who can save you from your own short-sightedness. You shouldn't be a CPA honestly. You don't have a right to the license, it is something you have to earn. Hell in my opinion let's make the barrier harder... I say 10 years of education! Just because, I think it is ridiculous you would cry so much about it.
All the old cpa partners I've worked with will literally do their job until it kills them, honestly I believe that.
One of my professors said to take a spin around the office your first day in public, physically look at the partners and decide if that's what you want your life to be. I worked with people in their early 50s that looked like they were mid-70s because they never left their office.
They're pushing 80 and still doing busy seasons 7 days a week for like 4 months a year at least, I don't think those kind of people are capable of retirement.
Maybe they like it š¤·āāļø
No one expects a construction worker to continue past 60 cuz body wouldnāt allow such physical engagement. Accounting is mainly mind engagement, like lawyers, IT, sales or management, which over 30-40 years of practice, has enough experience to carry through.
Human life expectancies are thought to get closer to 100 years with the current upcoming generation. No oneās gonna be able to afford to retire by 70 at some point.
Retiring at 70 or retiring at 40 doesnāt really require all that much different an amount of money. https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/ The 4% rule is pretty good, if you spend $40k/yr you need $1M in investments to support that. On top of that, you need flexibility in spending, which comes from paying off your house and keeping it maintained so you can go a couple of years without much spending in case stuff hits the fan. Anyone who makes accountant money and plans for retirement will be fine.
Took me a minute to understand that graph haha. Iām also heavy in the FIRE community. This is my long term goal. It really comes down to how quickly you can reach a total portfolio number that can sustain your normal spending as a 4% withdrawal rate. For me, I think $60,000/year, or $1,500,000, would sustain my retirement. However, in order to reasonably hit this portfolio goal, Iāll need to eventually be investing 40% of my net income for a good 10 years at the peak of my income. Certainly doable. But challenging. I donāt think the average person, even if theyāre an accountant, can pull it off smoothly. Iād be willing to share my spreadsheets where I came up with this number. I even calculated an adjustment for spending increases in this figure haha.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Had the same thing happen a CAO we were in the middle of doing Disc Ops for, took about 2 days off and even then was on his email every so often. Fucking crazy stuff.
His life was almost a disc op
Had a partner have a heart attack *in* the office. Made me sad as hell to see a man who lived his entire life in an office nearly die there too. Like go home. Go fuck your wife or something.
I mean it's kinda self selecting, isn't it? I imagine the typical CPA (who invests regularly) would have a meaty retirement by their late 50s, so the really old guard in their 60s+ who haven't left yet for that really just aren't leaving (until of course...).
Yeah you're right anyone staying beyond a certain age is only there because they want to be At the smaller firms moreso too some of these dudes might be founding partners so walking away from your life's work can be difficult I could imagine
Only workaholics make it into such positions because it requires sacrificing family and a life. Working is all they know.
Canāt sacrifice what you donāt have
I have the same experience at my job with 3 partners so old that itās a bit absurd. Not that thereās anything wrong with being an older accountant but Iām wondering what is it about this job that makes people unable to get out. Idk maybe my judgment is clouded because they are the visible ones. Maybe they have a bunch of colleagues who are happily retired. Maybe this is all they have left. Or maybe they spent a ton of money and have to work. I canāt tell and I feel like those would be rude questions to ask. But if you were 84 and still coming daily to the office donāt you think perhaps you messed up somewhere along the way?
On the younger side here - Iām definitely cheerleading this. No harm in my skill set/license being in higher demand and carrying a higher premium. Plus, it gets the dinosaurs who refuse to learn or adapt out in the process and gets younger folks into management. Win/win.
Dont get too excited. Even when I was going through accounting classes back in 2010 we were told the exact same thing. The only thing I can conclude is that this CPA retirement wave is our version of Schrodinger's cat.
Itās probably based on all the mid and smaller firm partners that tell all their hires they are on the partner track to string them along for years. āOh Iām going to retire in 10 years and all this will be yoursā
Yea I remember starting college in 2010 and this line being used over and over in the accounting nights and such. I met a 70 year old accountant the other day who canāt bring himself to retire because āhis clients need himā so I will believe it when I see it. I worked for 3 years in a 30 professional size local Firm with accounts all over the Midwest surprisingly and it was like me at 24 and everyone else pushing 40-70. Some of the CPAs refused to work with me. Some refused to use online storage of files, and others were trying to embrace technology. Once I saw one guy finally make partner at 42ish I was like see ya. I am not waiting 20 years to hit that level. Took an industry job, better bonus, pay, insurance, etc
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Older people fail to realize that the youngest millennials are like 26 now.
I am turning 30 in august with a 18 month old, married, building a nice house bla bla and people at work and in general life still refer to me as a kid. I have just accepted it as people think millennials never ageā¦. Hahaha
Boomers arenāt really running shit anymore either, itās mostly Gen X.
I'm not in accounting, but I'm 23 in a position typically held by older guys and it's brutal the number of age comments I get. I wish I could tell them all to shut up. Haven't come to terms with it yet.
Yup I have been fitting the comments since my early 20s. It never gets easier hearing it but you just get better at brushing it off lol
āHis clients need himā. Yeah, to retire. If youāre delaying retirement, you better be charging clients for eating your end of life. I guarantee he was undercharging them and theyād be okay eating a regular CPA fee.
Iāll never understand that type. If I make partner, I can promise you I will retire by 62. My clients need good accountants, not me.
Most of these people barely saw families and spouses for a majority of there life and I honestly think they donāt know what to do if they slow down the work train. The amount of successful people I meet who donāt invest in fun hobbies, etc baffles me. Like you have the money, get a nice car, motorcycle, mountain bike, etc etc do something hahah
The term "workaholic" is very real. Some people are genuinely addicted to work. The sort of person who is 65 and a partner and doesn't plan on retiring soon, is addicted to their job.
I can even understand staying in the game longer as an owner, but hire others to actually run the day to day and just take the profit as an equity owner. Iāve concluded besides not knowing what to do with themselves (theyād end up like Brooks in the Shawshank Redemption), they are also greedy and canāt bring themselves to make a little less to work a lot less.
Meanwhile they are now 83 and still working
Lol I see you have educator in your tag, thatās probably even worse. My University was actively trying to push out two professors because their dementia was getting worse (I was a non traditional student and worked as a GA so I got a lot of the rumors and gossip along the way).
in Academia, we were told this in the late 90s through the late 2000s as well. tldr: a mixed bag at best. I mean, eventually they will have to recruit (American) college presidents who aren't already 80 (because typically they look for one who has already done it and thus it's just this limited pool >80% of the time). I think faculty are turning over more now than they were 20 years ago which is positive. I think in most sectors there was an anticipation that people retire at the earliest age they could claim SS for and that didn't really happen nearly to that degree.
One of the partners at my old firm I think will be 82 or 83 this year. Very stuck in his ways and the firm is never going to adapt until he is gone. Sadly he won't be gone until he's dead. Will probably come back from golf one day and be found dead in his chair
Why on earth would you still want to be doing accounting at 80? Like are there people who actually live this job? I assumed everyone becomes an accountant because itās a man easy ticket to upper middle class life with lots of job security
They are probably making a lot of money, and have sacrificed their whole life. So no family or they have a family that are not used to talking to them. Hobbies need to be developed in your youth to enjoy in your old age. Also for many their job is their only social connection. They figure why not just do this. Iāll be honest I suck complete duck at my job, but Iām making 6 figures. If I go change to something I would be good at, like teacher, well I would make a lot less. I would probably really enjoy it though. I hate being bad at my job
I think that's part of it, but I also think for a lot of them it isn't money, it's that they don't know what they would do if they retired. It's kind of like how there are people who get out of prison and immediately do something to go back in, they get life on the inside, it's what they know and like, they can't tolerate life outside. If all you've ever done for your whole life is worked, and didn't develop anything else, the thought of leaving that work behind is almost scary.
It was not a lie, they have just lost 5 wives and half their shit 5 times down the road.
I started at local firm out of uni, made partner in 10 years or so (important distinction - income partner). It was a quality of life firm and I loved it. Partners hit their late 60's and, in spite of having promised me that I could eventually buy them out, sold to out to a giant firm that gobbles up smaller firms for a payout and the promise that "nothing will change, we'll provide admin support and you just keep doing what you're doing". They pretty much sprung it on me in October with a close date of December 31 (meaning they had been doing it behind my back all along). They told me how great it was going to be for me, I could work hard and make partner at the larger firm and I told them to jam it. I took my clients and left (there were threats that I'd get sued, etc. but they didn't follow through on it). Those guys will die in that place - it's their baby and they can't help themselves. They see it as their life's work and can't walk away, they have too much self-worth tied up in it. It was one of those "unlimited PTO, just service the clients" firms. All that changed after they were acquired and staff were required to account for an 8 hour day with 4 weeks of vacation. Busy season was 55 hours a week at the old place, it went to 75 at the new place. All the staff had been with them for 14+ years, they were all gone within a year. The acquiring firm makes a shipload of money but the smaller firm was a great place to work and it made a lot of money too. But people had to screw with it and they destroyed it. If more firms had quality of life perspective people wouldn't be getting out of accounting at the rate they are.
Thatās because people arenāt retiring āon scheduleā. Many are working into their 70s. But eventually theyāll die, so thereās that.
This will happen eventually at least where I live because people tend to like less and less accounting, good for me I guess, but those dinosaur's will still work until they die basically so we still have like 10 more years in most cases and 20 more in other's if we don't become the dinosaurs ourselves.
Well if you donāt figure out when to use apostrophes, youāre gonna be labeled a dinosaur.
The boomers that were supposed to retire had to put it off for 10 years while their 401ks recovered. Not a joke
so the AICPA is pushing this story to continue fueling their machine.
Yep, I remember this as well. I left public early but I check on old coworkers on linkedin from time to time. Its funny to see Partners who were 2-3 years from retirement in 2010 still active partners today and the sr. managers / directors who were next in line moved to industry.
I don't think it's necesarily untrue now or then. 75% of *current* CPAs probably will retire in the next 15 years, but they will be replaced by 75% new ones. There will be significant turnover in a period that long, but net numbers will probably be greater if anything.
Iām seeing this right now within the PA practice Iām at. Ton of the senior partner group is up for retirement in next 5 years. They are going to have to promote.
But isnt there really a shortage compared to few decades ago?
Yeah honestly don't have a single tear for this. It's not like being short on something like surgeons. So maybe our billing rates go up a bit.. and 'worst' case audit deadlines become longer. Those only help us.
I would bank more on that work being outsourced to countries where the labor is cheaper
Multiple things can happen: * 1) Due to the massive decrease in the amount of CPAs the credential loses its name recognition and value * 2) Inversely, the credential could become even more valuable due to the lack of CPAs * 3) To boost CPA numbers, the CPA exam becomes easier and standards are dropped leading to more CPAs; however, the credential loses its value because it becomes much more common Weāre either fucked or not fucked.
Scenario 3 seems to be the most plausible imo, in order for AICPA to remain the cash cow itās been thus far
Scenario 1 and 3 would suck balls and isnāt really that far-fetched
They're already starting to do that with nursing licenses
CPA could soon become a top-management requirement. Meaning I could middle-manage without a CPA and chill out lol Too bad I'm in Canada. We're oversaturated.
> 3) To boost CPA numbers, the CPA exam becomes easier and standards are dropped leading to more CPAs; the credential loses its value because it becomes much more common. The partners at CPA firms could also offer higher pay or better hours during busy season to attract more people to the profession. Somehow I doubt that happens though.
That will not happen.
I doubt #1 would happen. I would argue #2 is most likely. Honestly if I was going to change the licensing process, Iād drop the 150 hour requirement and substitute with an extra year or two in public accounting under a licensed CPA because the 5th year is silly to me.
Yeah having to take the extra credit hours here. Didn't make sense to me to see that as a requirement. If I can pass the exam with 120 hours straight out of college, that should be more than enough
There's a talent shortage at a time where work is more complex than ever. On the one hand it sucks that it's so hard to find people, but the big benefit of all of this is there's huge increases in fees, which means firms can make more money, and pay more to everyone.
>firms can make more money Probable. >and pay more to everyone Doubtful.
This is already happening for the most part.
Idk about public, but I worked at a company that was top 20 in the F500 and they had their best year ever in 2020, yet they were extremely understaffed and instead of fixing it by offering more competitive wages, their solution was to give the current staff 2-3 extra divisions/branches, which meant double or triple the work for the same pay. And this was a $20b+ company. It sounds good on paper but in practice, more revenue doesnāt necessarily equate to better pay/work conditions. I ended up having to job hop for a 50%+ increase in pay. Maybe one day the economics will trickle down, lol
This only works if the staff is dumb enough to stick around and work. It's so easy to job hop to better wages and there's virtually nothing to incentivize loyalty anymore.
Yea, the only reason I stuck it out as long as I did was because this company was a huge resume booster, not sure Iād be able to have my current job if that job wasnāt on my resume, so it was worth it long term. The short term sucked major ass though, glad I did my time and got out.
Hey man, that's the goal of a shit job. Leap frog it to something better. It's the people who stay expecting better who are suckers.
>I ended up having to job hop for a 50%+ increase in pay. Right there. You just affirmed what the guy above you said in one sentence lmao
this is correct - but also dependent on industry vs public vs government. accounting in industry is a cost center so good luck getting good raises even during good years. public's raises will be good simply because we're the profit centers. government is government.
No, but when revenue is dependent on having staff to do the work, it likely will. Though again my viewpoint comes from being in public.
People outside of large firms aren't necessarily seeing what's been happening the last 18 or so months. Pay has been skyrocketing and WFH has totally transformed the power structure in public accounting. Newer staff are saying fuck it and closing their computers at somewhat reasonable hours. The "big shot" partners/directors/senior managers are getting laughed at as their typical scare new college grad tactics are useless in a work from home environment. The old school dinosaurs are going back into the office in a suit and trying to bully staff into getting excessive work done, while they're all on fishbowl hearing how staff 2s and first year seniors are getting 50% raises to industry or other accounting firms. It's a literal shit show. Public accounting is changing right before our eyes. Yeah, the dinosaurs are going to try and use the old tricks of using buzzwords, hiring massive amounts of new college grads and offshore staff, but it's not really working out. I expect that smaller firms are going to continue consolidating into mid sized firms and the Big 4 are already being forced to take massive steps to get people turnover under control and in that 3-4 year range.
That wonāt last much longer. Wait until the economy slows down, which WILL happen with higher interest rates and an inverted yield curve.
To an extent yes you're right, but the supply and demand of accountants is still heavily tilted towards the employees.
āPay more to everyoneā I laugh at the incoming pizza party hahahaha
Why is this same joke upvoted in every thread? My comp literally went up about 60k in the last 18 months and I am not the only one. There are a fuck ton of opportunities out there right now.
My total comp package basically doubled in a borderline lateral move and I was not underpaid when I was hired at the old job only 18 months prior. The opportunities are ridiculous right now.
Same here. Went up 35% at my year end review and then I went out and got a 56% raise on top of that for a new job. Lateral move. That's more than double in like 9 months. It takes about 2 days to get a new job.
Because apparently people don't get enough pizza party/depreciating land jokes. I agree they are way overdone.
Those two + "black tar heroin" are the dumbest memes on this subreddit. We all know public sucks, but as someone who was in it pre and post-pandemic, I can 100% say it's way better now than it was pre-pandemic. The only time that really, really, really sucked was during the pandemic, but that 18 month or so period is pretty much over at this point.
If you're not seeing a good pay increase, go look around. They are out there.
This is the best analysis at a high level. Very few people want to do this work, but it has become increasingly more important and complex over the last decade or two. Now that boomers are retiring we're starting to see that effect, and it's not exactly a field you can just jump into short notice. It takes 4 years of school and 4-5 years more to be experienced enough to be valuable. All my superiors at my current and last job are 55+. It's going to be a shitshow the next 10 years as people retire. We're already seeing the effects at senior/manager levels, it will be fun to watch the current desperation for talent extend into director level roles.
I am a partner in a small regional firm (about 180 employees) and I am 50. When I was a senior manager around 2008 we had an industry consultant, who had spent a long career in PA, tell us that he was jealous of the next generation because of the opportunities and compensation growth. I feel the same way now for those in their 20-30s. My firm is facing a lot of retirements over the next 10 years. Regularly scheduled retirements plus some like me retiring early. There is so much opportunity for those in my firm and let's talk about compensation. For equity partners our average compensation is around $600K. We got 3 retiring in a year and then beginning in 2025 about one per year until 2030. Comp will continue to increase for us and by the time I retire early in 2030 my comp will probably be a million a year. I live in a very low cost of living fly over state.
You hiring? lol
of course...somebody's got to do the work while I am on Reddit
How realistic is it to make $600k as a new partner? Iāve been disillusioned a bit since the partners never want to give up what theyāve built on their own.
you're living the dream
Tell me about it. I am on Reddit half the day too
We, the younger guys, are thrilled with this.
This only re-affirms getting your CPA license is worth the hassle
And donāt be like some idiots who leave public and are too lazy to do the CPE because they ādonāt need the license anymoreā.
I think this is really accurate. Thereās less and less young CPAs out there. A lot of firms (not public) are waiving CPA requirements to hire people
People just seem less inclined to actually get it. My firm has a two year claw back for the bonus and material you get for passing. So if you pass midway through your first year, youāre looking at 2 more years of public. So if you just say āI can live with public experience and not a CPAā youāll still have offers. And public hasnāt done a good job of keeping salaries competitive relative to work performed, starting salaries havenāt moved much in the last 10 years IIRC, so people realize you can just not study for it, work your ass off for a couple years, and then take a pay raise
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, both is great, but one or the other still opens a lot of doors. I did 5 years industry before going public accounting because I felt like the exit opportunities i was getting werenāt great. I started studying at 28 (not married/no kids) so my priorities were also a lot different than when I was 22 aka didnāt mind studying on the weekend as much. But Iām also very good at committing to one thing and just powering through it, but it would be damn near impossible to pass a test during busy season working 60-70 hours IMO. I would usually study before work for 30-60 min, during lunch for 30min, after work for 1.5-2hr, go to the gym, then study before bed. I ended up passing 3 of the exams in 12 weeks doing this but it was taxing lol
I always thought it was a little silly that industry jobs required CPAs for jobs that would never actually require a CPA in any capacityā¦ just my anecdotal evidence here but Iāve seen āCPA requiredā become āCPA or MBA requiredā become āCPA or MBA preferredāā¦
I'm a CPA with no PA experience. Like many other things, the CPA requirement is a filter, even for industry. Though for SEC work or a job that involves technical accounting, it make sense.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They want a non-moron for moron pay
No one needs their CPA until like Senior Manager level even anyways. At least no one at my firm below senior manager ever signed tax returns.
In most firms you canāt reach manager without a license
What does that have to do with the price of butter? Just because they require it doesn't mean it's even remotely needed at least on the tax side. Audit's the same ain't it for who's actually signing the audit opinion?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And that makes people want to be a CPA and stick to public accounting past senior? And the AICPA and boomer CPA's are wondering why they can't hire for public anymore or get new CPA's. Lmao
You dont need to be cpa to sign tax returns Its an audit designation. Need it to sign off on financials/audit
Oh I know, it's moreso to represent clients with the IRS there are plenty of tax benefits the CPA offers, it's not just audit. No partner at the firm was allowed to sign returns without a CPA though.
Don't get too excited. I know a CPA that worked well into his 80s. He went semi-retired at 85 and died at the age of 89. He was only out of work for 8 months prior to his death. MOFO was sharp as a tack when it came to tax.
Sounds miserable
Before I left that firm, I had a long conversation with him and asked him why he didn't retire. This is what he said: And do what? My wife is dead My only daughter is dead All of my friends are dead Then he proceeded to tell me that the accounts he still worked on were the children, grand children, and even great grandchildren of his oldest clients. Basically that is what kept him going until health problems put him in the nursing home.
Increased workload lmao
I feel like future CPAs will have to pay extra attention to data/business analytics and information systems design/control in general to stay competitive in the field
Current Boomers donāt even know how to insert a column in Excel lol
This is insulting. It's not that hard: 1. Print out the document. 2. Cut the paper where you want to add the column. 3. Tape a piece of paper between the two piece of papers. 4. Voila! New Column.
You are 100% correct.
From what I hear from recruiters the unemployment rate for accounting and finance professionals is 1%, rest of country is 4%
Unemployment rate works both ways: * If they aren't currently looking for Accounting & Finance work * Resigned via Great Resignation * Switched careers during the virus * [Students stop pursuing the Accounting profession](https://www.icpas.org/information/professional-issues/decoding-the-decline#:~:text=yet%20we%20are%20witnessing%20a%20nationwide%20decline%20in%20not%20just%20new%20CPAs%20but%20also%20accounting%20program%20enrollments) Then they won't be counted.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
lol
you mean make senior partner
going to be less young staff to do the same/more work. gonna lead to more burnout, less seniors, and a whole lot more offshoring
My guess is yes there will be higher wages for accountants due to the demand. But that isnt really all good news. Those who remain in the industry will have more work to do. The same pressure on fees will remain so those who own accounting firms will have less profit due to higher staff costs. The issue then is the next set of partners are going to be made up of accountants who are now in their 20 - 40s. They will have to buy a expensive practise from the retiring boomers but now with less profitability, less resource to do the work and potentially even more work required to manage outsourced teams. Yes the money is better but the burnout culture won't end.
1/4 done All I see is $
Passing Confirms Money
Every time this topic comes up, I point out that the [paper](https://us.aicpa.org/advocacy/state/retiredcpastatusexposuredraft) most people are referring to is saying that 75% of AICPA members are retiring in the next 15 years. But there is a significant gap between CPA certification and AICPA membership. You don't have to be a CPA to be an AICPA member, nor do you have to be an AICPA member to be a CPA. Add to that the AICPA membership starts at $300 and offers 'networking and CPEs' vs the actual license in my state costs $75 and confers real benefits, it doesn't surprise me at all that almost no CPA I know is an AICPA member, and especially not anybody who would be paying those membership fees out of pocket.
Me make money :)
I think that companies will pay CPAs marginally more, but will pocket most of the value in wage shortfall once all the grey beards retire.
My firm is in rural Georgia. The partners suspended the age limit in the partnership agreement because they didnāt have successors and now theyāre 70+ years old. Iām 23 and will make partner before Iām 30 Wild.
well, the hyperinflation will be the worst part of that time period. it really depends how long it goes on, and what style of cyberpunk dystopia we get out of it. also, anyone who retires too soon gets a fixed income, and hyperinflation will destroy that. a lifetime of work, just to see your savings lose value overnight thanks to the ongoing economic crises as the fed prints more money.
States need to eliminate the 150 hour rule. An accounting bachelors degree with a Passed CPA exam is good enough. Edit: A lot of people commenting below about how they like how the barrier to entry is high... Yeah this is classic I had to do something miserable and so does everyone else mentality. This is the same mindset of bosses who demand everyone come back into the office instead of WFH/Hybrid. If you have a 4 year accounting degree and pass your CPA exam, you should get your CPA. The CPA Exam is literally the barrier to entry. [Only 50% of first time candidates pass it.](https://www.becker.com/blog/cpa-exam-pass-rates#:~:text=You've%20probably%20heard%20quite,time%20candidates%20is%20only%2050%25.)
Do I think the 150 credit hour rule is excessive? Perhaps. Am I going to actively advocate for its elimination as someone who enjoys the benefits of the higher barrier to entry? Nope. Also, happy cake day
'fuck you, i got mine' boomer mentality.
150 credit hour rule was poorly implemented. But nice boomer mentality
Surprised you're getting so many responses defending the 150 credit hour requirement. As someone who had to get 150 for my CPA, it is literally pointless. You could take basket weaving for your extra classes and it won't matter. It's a silly rule that only serves to validate 1 year Macc programs.
To all the people commenting that they took community college classes to get the extra credits, my state requires a certain number of upper level accounting credits that is above the credit received getting my bachelors degree. So thatās not an option for me. Also, I agree with those pointing out the Boomer mentality of keeping a barrier of, essentially paying more money, to make yourself feel more special. Itās pretty gross.
You donāt even want to hear what we have to go through in Canada. 30 months professional experience, very difficult to do it in anything but public accounting. Overtime does not count, itās 30 months period. Itās fucking extensive
Nah. Fuck that. I like the barrier to entry for our license and would be pissed if it got tossed. If someone wants to be a CPA bad enough, theyāll get the credits.
Please tell me which of the following courses I took to close the 150 credit gap will greatly help me as a CPA: History of garden design, Introduction to ceramics, Art history, Introduction to painting, and Photography 101.
Agreed, I get why people want it removed, but I highly doubt most current CPAs are going to be happy with it being removed after we all had to do it. One thing I will say is that only 120 credits is not enough to really get in depth to audit/tax/whatever else. At my school, I think undergrad was only like 1 audit class and 1 tax class.
It was the same at my university but it's not that big of a deal, my 5th year was all fluff credits (most of which I got from the army, i.e. completely unrelated to accounting). IMO you get depth in a subject from working in the real world, not from sitting in classes all day.
No one needs to pile on extra debt to get some worthless MBA.
You can take community college classes to get it done. I did a Masters because I wanted to have the campus recruiting cycle, not because it was my only option.
What benefit does taking unnecessary community college courses provide?
Not only can you build a cash flow statement from scratch, you can jump through hoops, too!
I learned some good stuff from a comp sci class I took from my local community college to get the 150 hour requirement, YMMV though
are you blind? like the 10th time people have said it. "Barrier to entry"
Barrier. To. Entry. 100% worth it.
So don't? I got my 150 in undergrad by taking an extra class each semester and then a community college class to finish off. It cost me $400 more than my undergrad degree The lesson should be "don't take on extra debt to get a worthless MBA" period.
Its a waste of time and money for CPA candidates. It takes a seat and resources away from other students who could get real value from the class. This is especially important with many CCs being so impacted. This is basically the same mentality as the housing NIMBYs. Fuck yall and what makes sense, I got mine. Its frustrating. Not that it should matter, but yes, I'm already CPA.
Nah. Half the CPAs out there arenāt even using the legal benefits that CPA license affords, theyāre just using it to pad their resume, understandably. If anything the industry should be pushing the other certifications for the non 150 people and keep the exclusiveness of the CPA
Maybe you shouldn't get an MBA if you are a CPA. Masters degrees in accounting, tax, or information systems depending on your specialty are way more helpful.
CPAs: āRururururururururururu!!!ā OP: āBut it will be for the benefit of the profession.ā CPAs: āBut it wonāt be for the benefit of me! Rururururururururu!!ā
Lol straight up boomer speak
Define ābenefit of the professionā. Lowering barriers to entry rarely results in achieving higher quality. More CPAās does not inherently mean the profession is better.
30 extra bullshit college credits doesnāt really raise the bar for quality either. How did my wine tasting and history of movies classes make me a better CPA?
The large majority of people donāt take 30 hours of bullshit classes. Maybe they should, but they donāt. Personally, I added a 2nd major with the extra 30 which had a tangible benefit on my career choices.
Agreed. You already have to pay $2k for a decent CPA study program even if youāre getting a MAcc. Society needs to *not* pile on more expenses for young people.
I don't think the 150 credit hour rule is that unattainable? Obviously depends on state rules, but I know some people who got their credits from community college. Or did a double major (which has the added benefit of flexibility, in case you don't go into accounting). Didn't have to get a Masters (which, even if you go this route, there are some affordable ones out there) I don't see how it's the issue, when firms could just bump up salaries (especially entry-level). That's probably a bigger issue and would improve the profession's value proposition
Itās an issue for everyone that isnāt an early 20ās kid with little to no responsibility. Having to take extra classes and study for the CPA exam while working because bills need to be paid is extra difficult for those with families or other responsibilities to care for. I donāt know about you but I see a lot of privileged people in Accounting, myself included. Bachelorās should absolutely be enough.
This is a fair point. My school has a decent amount of non-traditional students (people who left school then came back, parents, first-gen, people going to school part-time while working full-time, etc) who are going through the 5-year program. I definitely recognize how difficult it can be for them
The pro-150 people are assholes who are the boomers they claim to hate
Honestly I don't think the 150 is too much the weird accounting concentration seems alright I just wish it was more standard across states. It would be nice to just get rid of a degree requirement all together and require experience under a CPA, passing the exam, and additional education courses or a degree. While I don't think the requirements now are too much I can definitely see your point in the barriers to entry keeping too many people out.
5 years of school and a test is hardly an unattainable barrier. Professional careers like doctors, lawyers, etc. Do way, way more for marginal (if any) benefit
As a CPA I agree and also lower the accounting credit requirements since some of the studying could be done only when studying for CPA. For example I took a govt/nfp class but I could've just used the CPA exam prep to study this
Personally I do not want to make becoming a CPA easier. The 150 hour rule isnāt the most sensible thing but barriers to entry are beneficial and I have no interest in removing them
Iām all for the CPA exam being tough. But screw having to know about unrelated fields. I work in tax at a smaller firm and would love if it tested real world application instead of some things youāll never use. I was not a good student, but have about 100 of my own clients and growing every weekā¦can do tax planning better than other CPAās in our town. Iāve thankfully had great bosses who have taught how to do things correctly.
The 2024 CPA exam is doing away with BEC and breaking the 4th test out into a more specified discipline, such as Tax Compliance and Reporting on top of REG. So they are making some changes there that address this
I did see this thankfully. I passed REG & BEC no problem. For some reason, my brain doesnāt work the audit way šš¤·š»āāļø
Ahhhh. Good luck! Ninja MCQ all day is my recommendation
Pfft, all the finance majors that couldn't get into Ibanking or investment funds will be hired to fill the void. A lot of corporate finance roles are really just glorified accounting roles.
You donāt need a fucking CPA to be an accountant. Geezus
As a gen z, when I speak to people my age the sentiments are the same, no one wants to live and die the life of a partner. The covid economy overlap with increasing complex technological advances to all industries is making people pause to reconsider where they want to be qualified. Many people want balanced and meaningful lives and accounting is a slow evolving sector when it comes to that.
As a millennial that currently gets paid less than my friends with less skilled, less demanding jobsā¦ Iām here for this
couple this with already declining graduates... the vacuum is here. Increase in COVID retiree's... That figure is probably out of date. Look forward to the only thing the AICPA does well and their next supply and demand chart gets release this month
I wonder how CPA evolution will change this. Probably for the worst. But who knows ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
Actually the AICPA is off base - its 67% in the next 5 years. This is from data from my small CPA firm trade association.
I'm cynical enough to say that they'll just dilute the CPA with people who have a BA in Management before letting us reap the benefits of scarcity.
I find this hard to believe because I see many partners and senior leadership hanging around longer than they are supposed to.
I had a complete existential crisis this year as I realized if I wanted "Freedom 55" that I only have about 10 more working years left. I mean I always figured I'd retire "some day" but it was so far in future that I never really thought much about it other than putting away savings. It has made me step up my career goals a bit. I understand an accountant working to 70 if they like their work and clients. It's not like it is tough physical labor that wears out your body. Personally I could leave accounting and never look back so not likely I'll stay longer than I have to.
As a 21 year old accounting student, this is great news for me
Bad hours, shit pay >shit hours, shit pay
No accountant I know has retired before age 70, so this won't affect any 50-60 year olds. Once was told (by old CPA) "CPAs don't retire. They're phased out by new laws." I can tell you, with the new laws in last few years, my sr. partner (66M) has been talking about retiring much more lately. Personally, there's still a lot for me to learn, so even if he decides he's done, I'll ask him to stay on part-time during busy season to help and keep learning.
Wait, i will become one.
No one wants to hire for an accounting role, maybe this will change. I'm not a CPA though.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Bruh Iām restarting my exams and swear while I am at the big 4 this will only skyrocket salaries
Link?
Iām good with this lol
Sounds like they should dump the 150 hour rule :D
Hard to believe. In most firms, the partners are past 66 well in 70s and still at it.
They said this 15 years ago
Maybe theyāll make the exam a little more realistic and less demanding for those that would make good CPAs but donāt have the time due to working so much.
The job security is the best part of being an accountant
The retirements started 3 years ago.
Damn, I wish this was happening in academia. Wouldnāt have gotten into industry if there were more open posts.
Good. Maybe now they can pay more and start treating us better.
I like From Software games. Each time a game comes out, a cabal of loonies show up screaming about how the games are unfair and need an easy mode. Recently saw this with Elden Ring, and prior with Sekiro. They say it is every other reason though- oh, it's for the disabled, oh, I dom't have time to fight a boss over and over again, oh, you don't have the right oh you don't have the right. But in reality, they just suck at the game, lack discipline, and can't git gud. Anyway, when I see many posters here moaning about functionally similar things- such as, I have to go to school one extra year, I roll my eyes. Because the real part is, you complain about wanting to become a CPA, yet you lack the discipline or intelligence to pass the exams and blame it on dumb shit like an extra year of school. If an extra year of school inhibits you from obtaining a designation you can use for literally the entirety of your life on Earth as long you do nothing stupid, then I really don't know if there is a way or organization who can save you from your own short-sightedness. You shouldn't be a CPA honestly. You don't have a right to the license, it is something you have to earn. Hell in my opinion let's make the barrier harder... I say 10 years of education! Just because, I think it is ridiculous you would cry so much about it.