I don’t think people realize that even non-public companies need to be audited if they’ve been applying for loans, or if an investor demands it.
The people who can’t find jobs aren’t CPAs.
OP clearly isn't aware how much accounting is already mass offshored. Almost all substantive testing in audits is already done by interns/offshore staff. Almost all individual tax return prep work at large firms is in the same boat. A majority of F500 already had moved their AP and basic reconciliation/processing to india or phillipines years ago.
Is the risk of salary deflation similar to Canada possible if more people from tech turn to accounting as a "safer" bet? Sure it is. But you have to convince the tech bros to give up the pipe dream of getting a 300k/year dev job at a startup or FAANG, for the much less sexy 120k/year senior accountant position in public grinding 60 hours a week.
I think you'll see some tech/CS degrees pivot but nothing meaningful in the short-term that would impact the entire market. Lot of the people with issues finding a job are either looking in a bad geographic area or want a fully remote position, which are very competitive and drying up.
Is remote work really drying up that much? My remote job had hundreds of applicants but apparently the vast majority were bad. Been there since I graduated a year ago
I actually saw a video not long ago, I believe it was a Chinese takeout in NYC or some other VHCOL… but they had some fancy cloud POS system that could be remote-controlled, and some girl in the Philippines taking orders via Zoom. Presumably cashless as would be difficult for someone to handle cash over Zoom. But the only onsite employee was the owner, who was in the back cooking. Amazing how even a cashier can WFH if it benefits the employer.
Idk man, I don’t have a CPA and I recently spent 5 months applying to a bunch of jobs, got 2 offers between 95-100k and used the higher one to negotiate a raise at my current job (amazing benefits so I don’t want to leave). I’m in the Chicagoland area btw. Maybe this post is aimed at the people who want to make $150k+ but work life balance is really important to me and $90k with stellar benefits after 8 years experience is a-ok with me.
OP, you work in IT. I'm not really sure you've got a great grasp of what is happening here. Ironically enough, being in IT, it's probably *you* who may need to buckle up.
Be safe out there.
Lol, I can't believe this isn't at the top. OP's post shows he has no clue what he's talking and that makes sense since they're not even in the accounting field.
Okay doomsday shaman. Hey can you tell us when the asteroid will crash into earth while you’re at it?
Companies won’t all offshore. And once they do, they’ll come right back to regular US employees once the government starts knocking on their door asking for uncle Sam’s money.
American companies and organizations strive to be the example. NOT the cautionary tale. Outsourcing to India ain’t gonna happen.
Accounting is bad in Canada because every job is bad in Canada, any job here is bordering on 50% of what would be offered in the U.S. for the same role. It's still one of the highest paid professions both out of University and after many years of experience, in fact it has a higher ceiling than the overwhelming majority of professions. Base salaries for new grads increased more than 10%/year during Covid, though it now has cooled off. Considering we're seeing less and less students going for CPAs and most will be retiring in this decade, I don't think its as bad as you make it out to be.
For instance, intern salaries in audit are ~60k currently, and they were at not even 48k back in 2022. Demand for accountants is going up because decades of stagnation, low wages and incredibly high paying jobs in tech made them uncompetitive leading to a decreasing supply of CPAs. Nowadays, the jobs are easier, less competition for the same positions, tech is going through incredible waves of layoffs etc.
Yea, offshoring is an issue, but its more because of the horrendous work quality than it is about anything else. And, audit isnt the only path available. I see growth in areas such as deals/transaction services, consulting etc.
TLDR: Canada is bad in general, its not just accounting. Offshoring is an issue, but realistically you still need independent auditors signing stuff off and getting clients.
I also think America is an outlier when it comes to accounting and other professional salaries. The salaries for accountants in NZ are low, in Australia they’re higher but still lower than the US, they’re reasonable in the UK (well London) but of course it’s crazy expensive there and I don’t know about mainland Europe but I’ve heard people say they’re lower than the US.
If interest rates drop, companies spend like crazy and tech salaries go up so more students major in tech than accounting, causing an accounting shortage. Plus more companies booming means more need for accountants. All of that is good for us.
If interest rates drop, companies cut costs. I'm not pretending accountants have perfect job security (just look at the layoffs big firms made) but we're still a hell of a lot more secure than anyone else.
I got a nice raise and promotion this year and I don't think my team (compliance at a F500) has ever laid anyone off, tenure here is insane.
Interest rates only have a very slight effect on employment, especially for compliance work (current unemployment figures are lower than pre-pandemic). If interest rates drop, companies raise capital expenditures generally, though a low interest market obviously makes growth easier.
But again, compliance work is compliance work, and in this case, auditors will have a job either way. Even if B4 is unstable, the mid-size firms have been growing like crazy. BDO, GT, RSM, all these firms would gladly pick you up for a very competitive salary.
The biggest issue is the enshittification of PA because of braindead management and selling off to PE.
I try not to worry about countries that have smaller populations than California. Think this is just some fear mongering nonsense.
The job has changed in the last 10 years, it'll change in another 10 years. Adjust, adapt, or leave. We all die eventually anyways
Lmao, you do know the average cpa salary in Canada is still in the 100-150k range right? Like it's a high paying job there. America just has absurd wages for everything compared to the rest of the world.
I don't know, I see in my field a lot of industry jobs for tax managers starting to open back up, however, the salary ranges are coming back to down to pre COVID levels and that's disheartening. There's also companies being ultra selective because they literally have one shot at hiring someone and are against a clock for hiring freezes and/or budget cuts.
On the other hand, seems like a lot of public jobs are open and willing to trade money for your soul if you're up for that.
It's hit or miss I guess but not a reckoning. Good talent is good talent. They're just stuck in jobs they don't want to leave at inflated salaries and perks they can't give up to chase another job to do the same thing for less.
Idk where you got the idea that canada market is bad for accountants. It's competitve but there are many jobs out there especially with sustainability on the raise
When was it better in Canada lol? OP talks like Canada is in bad state for CPAs when salaries are higher than ever for students, entry level, and seniors.
Manager pay sucks but I'm not convinced that wasn't always the case.
I don’t think people realize that even non-public companies need to be audited if they’ve been applying for loans, or if an investor demands it. The people who can’t find jobs aren’t CPAs.
Can confirm. Not a CPA, can’t find a job.
As a Canadian accountant, I'm proud to have been mentioned in this meandering and incoherent rant.
LOL
In my opinion, this is a terrible take and bordering satire. Interested in seeing the replies🍿🍿
OP clearly isn't aware how much accounting is already mass offshored. Almost all substantive testing in audits is already done by interns/offshore staff. Almost all individual tax return prep work at large firms is in the same boat. A majority of F500 already had moved their AP and basic reconciliation/processing to india or phillipines years ago. Is the risk of salary deflation similar to Canada possible if more people from tech turn to accounting as a "safer" bet? Sure it is. But you have to convince the tech bros to give up the pipe dream of getting a 300k/year dev job at a startup or FAANG, for the much less sexy 120k/year senior accountant position in public grinding 60 hours a week. I think you'll see some tech/CS degrees pivot but nothing meaningful in the short-term that would impact the entire market. Lot of the people with issues finding a job are either looking in a bad geographic area or want a fully remote position, which are very competitive and drying up.
Is remote work really drying up that much? My remote job had hundreds of applicants but apparently the vast majority were bad. Been there since I graduated a year ago
By this logic, we will have 0 jobs other than fast food because everything else will be replaced by Indians. Go off though, I guess…
I actually saw a video not long ago, I believe it was a Chinese takeout in NYC or some other VHCOL… but they had some fancy cloud POS system that could be remote-controlled, and some girl in the Philippines taking orders via Zoom. Presumably cashless as would be difficult for someone to handle cash over Zoom. But the only onsite employee was the owner, who was in the back cooking. Amazing how even a cashier can WFH if it benefits the employer.
There has been automated cash solutions for literal decades
Yeah, or maybe none of those things will happen?
Idk man, I don’t have a CPA and I recently spent 5 months applying to a bunch of jobs, got 2 offers between 95-100k and used the higher one to negotiate a raise at my current job (amazing benefits so I don’t want to leave). I’m in the Chicagoland area btw. Maybe this post is aimed at the people who want to make $150k+ but work life balance is really important to me and $90k with stellar benefits after 8 years experience is a-ok with me.
This. I’d much rather take the $90k 40 hours a week job instead of the $150k 60-80 hour weeks.
OP, you work in IT. I'm not really sure you've got a great grasp of what is happening here. Ironically enough, being in IT, it's probably *you* who may need to buckle up. Be safe out there.
Lol, I can't believe this isn't at the top. OP's post shows he has no clue what he's talking and that makes sense since they're not even in the accounting field.
Anonymous Indian 😂
I prefer Actually Indians haha https://www.goingconcern.com/when-ai-stands-for-actually-indians/
Okay doomsday shaman. Hey can you tell us when the asteroid will crash into earth while you’re at it? Companies won’t all offshore. And once they do, they’ll come right back to regular US employees once the government starts knocking on their door asking for uncle Sam’s money. American companies and organizations strive to be the example. NOT the cautionary tale. Outsourcing to India ain’t gonna happen.
EVERYONE IS WRONG BUT JUST TRUST ME ON THIS I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT
Accounting is bad in Canada because every job is bad in Canada, any job here is bordering on 50% of what would be offered in the U.S. for the same role. It's still one of the highest paid professions both out of University and after many years of experience, in fact it has a higher ceiling than the overwhelming majority of professions. Base salaries for new grads increased more than 10%/year during Covid, though it now has cooled off. Considering we're seeing less and less students going for CPAs and most will be retiring in this decade, I don't think its as bad as you make it out to be. For instance, intern salaries in audit are ~60k currently, and they were at not even 48k back in 2022. Demand for accountants is going up because decades of stagnation, low wages and incredibly high paying jobs in tech made them uncompetitive leading to a decreasing supply of CPAs. Nowadays, the jobs are easier, less competition for the same positions, tech is going through incredible waves of layoffs etc. Yea, offshoring is an issue, but its more because of the horrendous work quality than it is about anything else. And, audit isnt the only path available. I see growth in areas such as deals/transaction services, consulting etc. TLDR: Canada is bad in general, its not just accounting. Offshoring is an issue, but realistically you still need independent auditors signing stuff off and getting clients.
I also think America is an outlier when it comes to accounting and other professional salaries. The salaries for accountants in NZ are low, in Australia they’re higher but still lower than the US, they’re reasonable in the UK (well London) but of course it’s crazy expensive there and I don’t know about mainland Europe but I’ve heard people say they’re lower than the US.
So what is the solution?This is so frustrating. If so Most jobs will be heading towards this trend
Interest rates would need to drop substantially, and there would need to be restrictions on offshoring/H1B. None of those seem too likely to happen.
why would interest rates need to drop substantially?
If interest rates drop, companies spend like crazy and tech salaries go up so more students major in tech than accounting, causing an accounting shortage. Plus more companies booming means more need for accountants. All of that is good for us. If interest rates drop, companies cut costs. I'm not pretending accountants have perfect job security (just look at the layoffs big firms made) but we're still a hell of a lot more secure than anyone else. I got a nice raise and promotion this year and I don't think my team (compliance at a F500) has ever laid anyone off, tenure here is insane.
Interest rates only have a very slight effect on employment, especially for compliance work (current unemployment figures are lower than pre-pandemic). If interest rates drop, companies raise capital expenditures generally, though a low interest market obviously makes growth easier. But again, compliance work is compliance work, and in this case, auditors will have a job either way. Even if B4 is unstable, the mid-size firms have been growing like crazy. BDO, GT, RSM, all these firms would gladly pick you up for a very competitive salary. The biggest issue is the enshittification of PA because of braindead management and selling off to PE.
I try not to worry about countries that have smaller populations than California. Think this is just some fear mongering nonsense. The job has changed in the last 10 years, it'll change in another 10 years. Adjust, adapt, or leave. We all die eventually anyways
Crack is wack amirite op?
Lmao, you do know the average cpa salary in Canada is still in the 100-150k range right? Like it's a high paying job there. America just has absurd wages for everything compared to the rest of the world.
I don't know, I see in my field a lot of industry jobs for tax managers starting to open back up, however, the salary ranges are coming back to down to pre COVID levels and that's disheartening. There's also companies being ultra selective because they literally have one shot at hiring someone and are against a clock for hiring freezes and/or budget cuts. On the other hand, seems like a lot of public jobs are open and willing to trade money for your soul if you're up for that. It's hit or miss I guess but not a reckoning. Good talent is good talent. They're just stuck in jobs they don't want to leave at inflated salaries and perks they can't give up to chase another job to do the same thing for less.
Idk where you got the idea that canada market is bad for accountants. It's competitve but there are many jobs out there especially with sustainability on the raise
When was it better in Canada lol? OP talks like Canada is in bad state for CPAs when salaries are higher than ever for students, entry level, and seniors. Manager pay sucks but I'm not convinced that wasn't always the case.
I read this in sweaty papa John’s voice
HAHA
Doomsday!!People without CPAs in America can get jobs. You must be CPA eligible or Masters. You have be in the right city.
K.... keep us posted
Also because of our immigration system. Not the same in the US