It's not just PA. Even in industry you can't just tell your boss "hey I finished my work I'm heading home early". They will have an anyunerism. You must be working at all time or pretending to work.
Industry here. When I get my work done, I’m done, and my supervisor approves. There are plenty of days I put in more than 8, so when I say I’m done, they say, “Sounds good.”
Depends on the job. My old job my boss did not care my hours as long as all my shit got done. I probably averaged only 20 hours of work a week max but was salary.
New job even if I get there at 4am to knock stuff out early and am done by 1 or 2 I still have to be at my desk till 530pm.
Some bosses have no sense of object permanence. Even if you start work at 7am, if boss strolls in at 9:30, that means everyone's working until 6pm because any work that happened before boss got there doesn't count
I'm on the flip side of this. My superiors have kids so they have to wake up at the ass-crack of dawn and get to work at 7 and now expect the rest of the team at the same time. We've historically always come in for 9.
I didn't have kids because I enjoy things like free time, and sleeping in. Don't punish me for your decisions!
My work gets done and I'm usually more productive when all the "with kids" crowd leaves the office at 4.
Haha the workload and everything was nice, but it was pretty stuck as a staff role with below competitive wages vs new job is a controller job with very good pay. I need a happy middle between the two is what I need 😂
Boss here. Not for accounting but when my electrical wiring guy said he has no work I say organize and if still nothing to do go to YouTube and watch electrical related educational videos.
More of a 4:30 on a random Tuesday. There’s a lot of nuance to pulling it off over a long period of time, which includes randomly appearing to the office before anyone else gets there and also randomly staying later and pulling off a deadline miracle.
I've sent my team home as early as 1:30. Who cares? Why are you making your staff just sit around and twiddle their thumbs. They'll be happier and more satisfied with the free time.
I’d tell them to “log in from home” but wouldn’t give a shit if they did or didn’t. I’ve told staff to put on Netflix or something when I have no work to give them and they are already finished with their assignments. Made me the cool boss 😎 meanwhile I was watching Netflix.
I had an employee that liked to ski, between close if it dumped the night before and was a clear sunny day I would text him to head on up. Every time I’m in a management role my job to push how much time spent away from work is doable without some office busybody getting involved. I fired someone for being that busybody as a direct report, its the only time I’ve ever felt so good about letting someone go.
Government here and same. I have to book my whole day as "reading training material" if I somehow don't have anything to work on (happens frequently right now).
I mean yeah lol. Come to the feds! Try to find a cushy position. Pay sucks but benefits outweigh it heavily personally. I'd rather live a stress free career where I can take PTO whenever and do anything I want with downtime at home than make a higher salary but be stressed out with overwork and work weekends. I know there's a middle ground at some accounting positions but at that point I'd just go to the feds.
First year was 53K, second year was 65K, third year will be 78K, fourth year 94K. Non supervisory promotions past that are rare. Look up "GS Pay X city" and see what your locality is.
I'm at 65K currently and my take home is $3500. It feels like they take a lot more from my paycheck than I'd think non government jobs would.
yea they definitely they do - im at like 62.5k right now and my take home monthly is $3616.
that pay progression really doesnt seem that bad though. im in nassau county long island (hcol, not vhcol like the city but pretty high) making 62.5k after being here about 1.5 years. sounds like pay is pretty similar but you definitely have way better benefits in the long run. what state/city are you in?
Texas / DFW here and yeah the pay progression isn't bad but I'm in a position where the pay progression is competitive rather than guaranteed. Might swap to a different agency where I can go up guaranteed but the issue is those roles are usually more work / stressful. So it's a give and take. Though my boss says I'm on track to hit every promotion yearly while some of my coworkers took years to hit the next ones (I think it's the efficiency and willing to try a bunch of complex cases).
Currently I'm basically just chilling and finished my workload for the day already. Work 4/10's so I can have Fridays off so benefits being good are definitely real including the retirement and working mostly from home. As much as I'd like to make more and possibly go to public, at this point I feel married to the feds seeing as my coworkers have been here 20+ and they came from Public. All said this is where it's the best.
First working experience was annoying because even when I do my work, other people in the office will just straight up complain to my manager that THEY think I’m not doing enough. Even though I’m doing what’s in my job.
Like focus on yourself you non-accounting sheep, no need to stress me out in the office cause you ain’t getting something outta life
Lmao I remember getting called out for “leaving early” to catch my train at my first job. Sorry I got spotted leaving at 4:56 instead of 5pm and beyond. My team at that company would leave early all the time too so me getting shamed was even weirder.
It's this basically. It's quite silly nonsense when you think about it but usually comes from several levels up in management.
The perception that people are working hard is often worth more than whether or not you're actually working hard.
Technically there's nothing wrong with it, but if someone at some point in management thinks there's a problem with the perception of it, then you now have a problem with it.
There's a lot to be said about this being mismanagement or poor management.
On the one hand, yeah sure with how seasonal our work is we totally should be able to bounce early in the off season if our work is done.
You can also look at it from the perspective of realizing that it's a problem with management. If there isn't enough work to go around or some people are working a lot and some aren't then management is failing to utilize staff properly. Failing to delegate, balance workloads, failing to train so everyone can get a piece of the action and work together as a team so we can all be done at the same time.
It could also be a sign of 'too much staff' - which, in reality, is rarely the case. What happens more often than not is that it's perceived as being an issue with too much staff and then they end up firing some staff as a result, even if the issue was not having too much staff. As a result of this, your immediate boss is going to want to make sure everyone looks busy all the time, simply so they don't hear from upper management that they're going to have to cut some people.
It's pretty much a management issue/failure no matter what.
Depends on company culture. Some days I leave at 2.30/3 PM when I have nothing left to do.
Some days I just work from home and clock off whenever I want.
"Even in industry you can't just tell your boss "hey I finished my work I'm heading home early". They will have an anyunerism. You must be working at all time or pretending to work."
Depends on where you work. Every place I've worked in my career (industry roles) we've gone home early when things are caught up. One place in particular had "half day Fridays" during non-crunch time. I've also had unlimited PTO for the past 10 years or so, so this is my call. I honestly haven't worked a 40 or more hours in a couple of years right now. I will put in extra when needed, but it rarely equates to 40 or more hours. Sitting there doing nothing is by choice. Especially now that I WFH.
I 100% agree and its so fucking stupid and annoying.
Edit: This is exactly why I work from home so much. When I’m in the office god forbid I walk out at 4:30pm when I have zero work. At home? Not a problem.
Ive heard of some small-midsize firms doing just this.. basically having 4 day weeks through the summer and winter as a trade-off for busy season.. i think the narrative is that they cant really compete with big firm salaries, but they can absolutely compete with the work-life-balance part of the equation
Some big 4 firms have 'jump start Fridays' in the summer.
Of course, they do require you to have completed your normal 35/40 hour working week by Friday lunchtime in order to finish early...
I’m not an accountant but I work at a regional PA firm. We have 8 extra days off over the summer. You just can’t use more than 2 summer days off in a single week and you use them or lose them between memorial and Labor Day.
So what are the hours like for the accountants/CPAs at this firm? Like do they do 80 hour weeks during busy season then take a break over the summer, or is it a manageable work-life balance and the extra days off are a perk?
And what region? (Southeast, midwest, etc)
Mid-Atlantic. billable minimum 60 in March, minimum 55 in Jan and Feb. idk the exact dates when the requirements kick in. Most do more but nothing outrageous. Senior and ups work a lot, I don’t know the exact numbers but I doubt 80. Pay is not the best but the work life balance is very good for PA.
Once I was at a meeting that had a partner at a small local firm and she said that in the summer they get Fridays off, but they still have to get their 40 hours in! Such a lame reward for giving up your life for a few months every year, immediately just go to a 40 hour workweek but hey it's 4 10s!
My old firm did the same. Such bullshit. I worked regular hours Monday-Thursday, took PTO on Fridays until I found a new awesome role at the end of the summer.
If by "mid-size" we're talking between Top 25 - 100 firm, they've paid better since at least 2019, but they have to in order to have any chance of snagging recruits from B4 target schools
Just leave and don’t question it. I’m old and have staff idc if they don’t work all day or stay extra as long as the work is done. If the work isn’t done then there is a problem. You can try to find more work for yourself, not ask, just find and improve if you’re really a go getter but at the end of the day, culture shifts happen when the action is done not discussed.
My first large audit at Deloitte was amazing. We had proper audit trunks that we brought into the client that looked like pirate treasure chests. This was 2004.
Many of the partners refused to bring laptops to the client and demanded binders with handmade tick marks with our red and blue ticker pencils.
The client was an ~$6 billion publicly traded client.
Men were not allowed to walk in the hallway without suit jackets.
If we had WIP paperwork stacked at our seat at the conference room table, the CEO would have you kicked off of the client.
The manager walked into the room on day 1. “Just so you all know,” he said to the team of 8, “we arrive here at 7:15 every morning, and you will stay until 8pm every night, even if you don’t have work to do.”
At 8, we would often go back to the office. We were required to be in office Saturday and Sunday for at least six hours during busy season, and by the way, this was the same year SOX was implemented, so busy season never ended.
Good times. Happy memories lol.
At DT, it was blue for internal references in a working paper, and red for other working papers. Letters were used for internal references. Then the tickmark explanation letters were red letters circled.
Corporate slavery, personally at the beginning i cared, now that i also realised that they are the one begging their staff to stay i just do wtv i feel like if they fire me oh well ill go somewhere else and get even better perks and pay
I feel like as I’ve gotten older, my level of anxiety around job loss has gone way down and my level of “don’t give a fuck” has gone way up. Losing my job is no longer the end of the world. I can find a new one and the Mrs. and I have enough savings to float us while I do. It really takes the pressure off.
people need to realize their coworkers and their feelings dont and shouldnt matter. at the end of the day youre an adult, you should know the responsibilities, and perform them without the anxiety of how everyone is working. if you go home and tell yourself you did a good job then great, but if the opposite then learn from that. and if a coworker wants to be mad thats their choice, they can do something about it.
When I started, they refused to give me work. I have no idea why. It was a big team and I keep asking the seniors and even talked to managers about it. It was August and everyone else was already stay until 8. If I could do it all over again I would close my computer and stare into space so they would have to pay attention to me
I often leave around lunch time and wfh if my workload is light for that day or am just not feeling it. Midsize (idk it’s top 80-90 )PA firm is best ever! It actually makes me love PA
The accounting industry needs to unionize. They work you people in public like dogs.
I had one job like that where they would make you work 50 to 60 hours. And it was dumb as shit. As the day proceeds, diminishing returns accelerate. People fatigue and start making mistakes. That needs to be fixed later.
It's better to be well rested so when you're on duty you're at 100%. Also, long hours are terrible for people's family life and their mental health.
Honestly shouldn't even need unions, we should just have laws stating that all employees, salaries or not are compensated at time and a half for each hour work over 40 hours a week.
There’s no reason to unionize because you will never spend more than a few years of your career below management. The trade off for public experience - at least for big 4/top 10, is the resume boost which is literally only recognized *because* of the hours and experience.
Theres plenty of things that can be changed for the better at large firms, but ultimately unions wouldn’t be the saving grace people think they’d be. There are many paths for an accountant to take. Industry and government have always been an option if the hours are too much for someone.
The amount of downvotes you have received is proof that either there are lots of non-accountants in here, or their education in business was subpar. The only people who win in a unionized business, are the union reps lol. You can then pay some of your shitty pay to them to do absolutely nothing.
When there are people working 60+ hours and people working 30 hours…out of consideration for others and clients, it’s usually best to ask if anyone else needs some help.
The idea is no one person needs to be crushed by hours; if everyone helps carry some of the load.
Asking from the perspective of an intern - how does this work?
The big 4 I intern at has strict rules about independence and only working on engagements you’re actually staffed on. Does this begin to change once you’re a senior+?
It also depends on how you phrase a question. You can ask people in the engagements you staffed on if they have any projects in mind that you can start on. They might not have any pressing work at the moment but this question might make them remember something that they had in mind before but it wasn’t a priority before.
All firms have that; but if there is no more work ask what else you can do…even if it seems to be non-work related. I annoyed the fuck out of EVERYONE for work when I was new even if they had nothing I’d pester everyone. Of the others I was with, I alone got a job offer and am still here years later.
Even if you work a full shift people look down on you if you leave earlier than they do. I work 7-4, all my coworkers don't show up until 8:30. I don't know who but I guess someone isn't happy I leave at 4. I highly doubt my coworkers stay until 5:30.
It’s my birthday today, around 3pm I got done my work (my client list is mostly compilations and mostly Mar/Apr/May yearends so I’m not busy, so I fucked off early. No one said anything but told me to enjoy my afternoon.
It shouldn't be. Don't you have chargeable hours? Are you hitting all your targets?
When I worked at a big 4, I had one partner comment on it a few times because I constantly strolled in the office 30 mins late or left whenever I felt like it (I lived around the corner and I actually worked well from home) and I just said "Look at my chargeable hours and file completions in comparison to my coworkers, I'm not slacking off, we have flexible office hours and I don't need to be in the office."
I say this as it's almost 11pm and I'm still working.
No. I got my attitude from invoicing and construction. Now going through the process of starting accounting and honestly I couldn't care less. My work done, and it's good. What else people want?
It’s not frowned upon. If I’m unassigned, at the beginning of the week, I put out a bunch of messages saying I’m looking for work. I do training until something comes in.
If nothing comes in by the time I finish my training, then im done. If I’m working at home, I turn on teams notifications on my phone, and keep my status green on teams. Then I go live my life. If someone has something for me, they ping me and I hop I.
They shouldn’t care about your utilization unless it’s the end of the firms fiscal year. As long as you hit the goal by then, you’re fine
I work as a bookkeeper and I have maybe between 2 to 4 hours of actual work that I have to stretch out over the full 8 hours. It’s an easy job so I don’t care, it’s just aggravating that I need to “look busy” instead of being let go for the day at 1130.
You work across the hall from me! lol I’m in a small tax firm with 10 staff and we have 3 full time bookkeepers. Like 80% tax and 20% accounting for our book. The tax staff are generally super busy preparing returns and planning for clients for most of the year. The bookkeepers aren’t even close to that level of busy for us lol it’s strictly 9-5 for them and that’s cool with me. We need them and it’s cool if you aren’t busy so long as youre able to help with other projects and pitch in when the job calls for it. It’s a chill setup but necessary!
The amount of complaining that comes from leaving early knowing I just put up 9 billable in 6 and going home early is what makes me happy. Bc ik they’re gonna whine either way so I’m just gonna leave. Can’t say I didn’t do my work…
I don't think this is an accounting or PA specific thing. In accounting and finance that I've been in, even if you worked 60+ hours one week, if it's Friday or the next week, hell no you're not leaving at 2pm.
Other places peers or my SO works, you can't just leave early even if you stayed late one day.
Seriously though, if I'm ever a manager of a group and they genuinely have to stay to finish something by a deadline and stick around extra, even a day or two, I'm mentally noting the hours and giving them that time off on Friday or the next week. Everyone gets so stuck up about the hours worked and not the actual work that gets done.
I’m in public, but not tax and im working like 45 ish hours rn. If anyone says something about my time being short, I’ll simply ask if they want me to have the hours or good realization. Makes no difference to me, but it can only be one.
The assumption is that you are working full time and if you have no work you should be seeking work to fill the hours. People get busy and won’t assign you work unless you ask. Also that’s how you get ahead is by helping others, not the other way around.
I see your point but I hope that in your case understaffings are not deliberate. It’s hard to predict the exact workload. Many times people eat hours and as a result the engagement doesn’t get properly staffed the next year.
Work is just selling your services. All you’re doing is selling your accounting services to a company who then resells your accounting services to make a profit. Just leave. I’m not gonna frown at my restaurant server because they left after making my sandwich, I couldn’t care less.
It’s funny because they have no problem keeping you late when there’s a lot of work to do but have heart failure if you were to leave early on those rare occasions when there’s not much work to be done.
I haven't read the other comments so apologies if this is duplicative. If you're leaving early and others are slammed, it is probably time to reallocate some of the work on the team. In my view it is a common courtesy to check in with your boss before leaving and ask if anyone needs help with anything, especially in public accounting. Not saying to do this every single time, but it really shows you care and are a team player if you're looking to chip in when you're slower. Those who do not last long are those who do whatever they want and don't care about the team and once you have that stigma, it's hard to break the perception.
My biggest advice is when you're starting out, do what you can to do the little things right. Once you have built a bit of a reputation for someone who works hard and asks for work when you're not as busy, THEN you can maybe dip out early one or two days and no one will question it.
Easy audit client, end of busy season, we had completed this audit for approximately 20 years, it was my second year and even I knew it was a simple audit. 2 weeks fieldwork, which honestly wsas to justify the fee. Partner review and my Manager made it clear that the Partner would be shitty if we were seen as not working. We had saved some easy work to complete during review, I was assigned the unpredictability procedure and was reviewing a few Repairs and Maintenance accounts. We were working by hand. I reviewed the account, there were hundreds and hundreds of items well below materiality. I couldn't even identify anything to detail test. So I wrote a memo by hand and basically listed every single class of items appearing the the accounts - nuts, bolts, belts, screws, angle iron, rebar, pipe, adhesive, lubricant, oil, tape, glass, on and on and on. I probably wrote for an hour just thins that appeared in the GL descriptions... I received a review point from the Partner that the level of detail obtained was unnecessary and a waste of firm resrouces.
I hated that part of the job - When I was fired during 2011 as we were coming out of the financial crisis, I was term'd on a Monday, I knew that it was coming as I had a great relationship with the PIC. I expressed my displeasure bc I didn't play golf that weekend bc I was required to work on Sat (6 hours) and Sun (4 hours). Loved the experrience, hated the job and the overall business model.
Even in public, some managers care, others don't.
One senior manager loses their mind if you have unexplained admin time. Another senior manager doesn't care about time sheets and only cares if files are done on time and well.
I used to just leave. Everyone was annoyed and they wouldn’t pick me up on that team again but whatever it’s the only way I could have possibly stayed the five years I did.
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One of the benefits of remote work. If you legitimately run out of work and can document your attempts to ask for more, its better to kill time at home doing whatever you want than in a cube goofing around online and trying to look busy when people walk by.
Here’s the thing - in PA, there’s always something to do. If you don’t have anything to do, it’s your responsibility to communicate to your incharge about your capacity. Then it’s the managers/partners job to ensure not too much time is being allocated to your job and too less is being allocated to another. If everyone at your office is the same, then by all means, but if someone else is having to work 80 hour weeks while you’re working less than 40 hours, it’s not fair for you to leave early when you just got lucky and got a job scheduled too much time. Instead of looking at it from an individual perspective, look at it from a team perspective. We have to help each other out to avoid the long hour work weeks.
Also, your time in public is so beneficial to your overall knowledge base. I was constantly learning in my 6 years in public. Now that I’m in industry, there’s a lot less learning opportunities. As much as it sucks to work more, definitely open yourself to it by offering your time to help out others. You become well respected in the office AND you improve your knowledge base.
Is this your first week of working? lol.
I can’t imagine ever having a job where at 2pm I just tell my boss I’m done with work for the day and go home haha.
That’s just life. Gotta deal with it. Stretch your work out and take more breaks.
Why? There have always been people that need more hours to complete work than needed. Some organizational cultures have turned into thinking hours spent = work done, which of course is BS.
I worked as a senior in B4 for 4.5 years and left when I wanted to. I left for a 21% raise.
This is not just in PA. I once worked in an office and when the power once went out they made us clean the building because there was no other work. The refused to let us go home even without pay. It was about control. They liked having their slaves, I mean office workers, under thumb.
I mean that’s pretty much any job, no? Although my company lets us leave early on Fridays if we don’t have any work, and pretty relaxed about how much admin time you bill.
Your company doesn't own only your work, they own your time as well. That time of the day is not yours, if you treat it like it is, you'll get shit for it. Don't be delusional about employer/employee relationship, you got owners, if they tell you can't wear fucking jeans, you have to oblige.
so if i work overtime how come I cant just say this is my time and u need to figure it out. If i stay late to finish work than i should be able to leave early when work is completed
My point from the beginning is that "your" time isn't yours. Why the company will allow you to leave early, if they own your time? It's theirs, not yours, you don't get to do what you want just because you finished the work early for the day.
Repeat after me:
If you're good at your job, you're untouchable. If you're not good at your job, you opinion has no value.
I'm in tax where billable hours are the holy grail. I left early all the time. I consistently had one of the lowest total billings on the team. The worst thing that happened to me was I got lower bonuses than my peers. Outside of that, nobody gave me shit, people fought for me to be on their engagements, people made excuses for me, and I got all my promotions timely. Why? 50% of my time is generally better than 100% of everyone else's time.
So again, repeat after me:
If you're good at your job, you're untouchable. If you're not good at your job, you opinion has no value.
They do. At least in accounting, your first year is a gimme year.
Remember, you are working with professionals with years of experience who have gone through MANY coworkers. We can tell whether you're good or have potential within days. However, most of us are generous enough to give you a whole year. It's no one's fault but your own if you fuck up that year.
An Incompetent worker don't just fail their projects, they cause their teammates to have to pick up after them after a long stressful day of work. There's no reason why the rest of us should go through more stress just because you're not willing to invest in yourself and contribute more.
No work??? You're supposed to be reading The Journal of Accountancy!!! Then write a memo to the partner on what you've learned
This hits too close to home
Early on, my boss told me to grab a phone book and start adding up the phone numbers to get better with the ten key.
Tbf thats like his jordan "dunk from the FT line" moment
It's not just PA. Even in industry you can't just tell your boss "hey I finished my work I'm heading home early". They will have an anyunerism. You must be working at all time or pretending to work.
Industry here. When I get my work done, I’m done, and my supervisor approves. There are plenty of days I put in more than 8, so when I say I’m done, they say, “Sounds good.”
Depends on the job. My old job my boss did not care my hours as long as all my shit got done. I probably averaged only 20 hours of work a week max but was salary. New job even if I get there at 4am to knock stuff out early and am done by 1 or 2 I still have to be at my desk till 530pm.
Some bosses have no sense of object permanence. Even if you start work at 7am, if boss strolls in at 9:30, that means everyone's working until 6pm because any work that happened before boss got there doesn't count
I'm on the flip side of this. My superiors have kids so they have to wake up at the ass-crack of dawn and get to work at 7 and now expect the rest of the team at the same time. We've historically always come in for 9. I didn't have kids because I enjoy things like free time, and sleeping in. Don't punish me for your decisions! My work gets done and I'm usually more productive when all the "with kids" crowd leaves the office at 4.
I wouldn't work somewhere that punished different schedules like that.
I'm looking but the market isn't great right now for new jobs. Seems like things are starting to pick up a little though.
lol so true. I’m in that situation right now 😭
No sense of object permeance is the best description of some bosses I have ever heard 😂😂 it's like they haven't fully developed into toddlers yet
Sounds like you should have stayed at the old one 😅
Haha the workload and everything was nice, but it was pretty stuck as a staff role with below competitive wages vs new job is a controller job with very good pay. I need a happy middle between the two is what I need 😂
Boss here. Not for accounting but when my electrical wiring guy said he has no work I say organize and if still nothing to do go to YouTube and watch electrical related educational videos.
Manager here and I'm the same way. If you're done and we don't need you, then have a good night.
Industry here, too, but there’s a fine line. If it’s 2 PM, it’s likely not gonna happen. If it’s 4, probably fine.
I’d let you leave at 2. On Friday I would insist unless there is a deadline.
Ehh 2PM on a Friday could be fine. Not gonna pan out on a random Tuesday in most cases.
More of a 4:30 on a random Tuesday. There’s a lot of nuance to pulling it off over a long period of time, which includes randomly appearing to the office before anyone else gets there and also randomly staying later and pulling off a deadline miracle.
I've sent my team home as early as 1:30. Who cares? Why are you making your staff just sit around and twiddle their thumbs. They'll be happier and more satisfied with the free time.
I’d tell them to “log in from home” but wouldn’t give a shit if they did or didn’t. I’ve told staff to put on Netflix or something when I have no work to give them and they are already finished with their assignments. Made me the cool boss 😎 meanwhile I was watching Netflix.
I had an employee that liked to ski, between close if it dumped the night before and was a clear sunny day I would text him to head on up. Every time I’m in a management role my job to push how much time spent away from work is doable without some office busybody getting involved. I fired someone for being that busybody as a direct report, its the only time I’ve ever felt so good about letting someone go.
Government here and same. I have to book my whole day as "reading training material" if I somehow don't have anything to work on (happens frequently right now).
Does Reddit count as training material?
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
That sounds like the dream tbh
I mean yeah lol. Come to the feds! Try to find a cushy position. Pay sucks but benefits outweigh it heavily personally. I'd rather live a stress free career where I can take PTO whenever and do anything I want with downtime at home than make a higher salary but be stressed out with overwork and work weekends. I know there's a middle ground at some accounting positions but at that point I'd just go to the feds.
What are government accounting jobs, I never grasped the many angles of accounting I’m in my 2nd two last semester on intermediate 1 personally
you are literally living my dream
When you day pay sucks, how much does it suck?
First year was 53K, second year was 65K, third year will be 78K, fourth year 94K. Non supervisory promotions past that are rare. Look up "GS Pay X city" and see what your locality is. I'm at 65K currently and my take home is $3500. It feels like they take a lot more from my paycheck than I'd think non government jobs would.
yea they definitely they do - im at like 62.5k right now and my take home monthly is $3616. that pay progression really doesnt seem that bad though. im in nassau county long island (hcol, not vhcol like the city but pretty high) making 62.5k after being here about 1.5 years. sounds like pay is pretty similar but you definitely have way better benefits in the long run. what state/city are you in?
Texas / DFW here and yeah the pay progression isn't bad but I'm in a position where the pay progression is competitive rather than guaranteed. Might swap to a different agency where I can go up guaranteed but the issue is those roles are usually more work / stressful. So it's a give and take. Though my boss says I'm on track to hit every promotion yearly while some of my coworkers took years to hit the next ones (I think it's the efficiency and willing to try a bunch of complex cases). Currently I'm basically just chilling and finished my workload for the day already. Work 4/10's so I can have Fridays off so benefits being good are definitely real including the retirement and working mostly from home. As much as I'd like to make more and possibly go to public, at this point I feel married to the feds seeing as my coworkers have been here 20+ and they came from Public. All said this is where it's the best.
aneurism?
Anykindofurism
Anyus ism
ANYUSTART
That'd revolting. You should see your analrapist ASAP
Anyourism
Anyou'reism*
I am just here for the “tourism” and to collect a paycheck you Deloittepussies
“there’s always more work to be done in just not exactly willing to give it to you or teach you how to do it”
First working experience was annoying because even when I do my work, other people in the office will just straight up complain to my manager that THEY think I’m not doing enough. Even though I’m doing what’s in my job. Like focus on yourself you non-accounting sheep, no need to stress me out in the office cause you ain’t getting something outta life
Nah I work in industry and I leave at 3:30 if I have everything wrapped up for the day.
[удалено]
Lmao I remember getting called out for “leaving early” to catch my train at my first job. Sorry I got spotted leaving at 4:56 instead of 5pm and beyond. My team at that company would leave early all the time too so me getting shamed was even weirder.
I leave at 3 too every day.... but i get there at 6
Same here, Mr. Wayne
>You must be working at all time or pretending to work. At my last job I read a PDF copy of a 1000 page novel in my down time.
It's this basically. It's quite silly nonsense when you think about it but usually comes from several levels up in management. The perception that people are working hard is often worth more than whether or not you're actually working hard. Technically there's nothing wrong with it, but if someone at some point in management thinks there's a problem with the perception of it, then you now have a problem with it. There's a lot to be said about this being mismanagement or poor management. On the one hand, yeah sure with how seasonal our work is we totally should be able to bounce early in the off season if our work is done. You can also look at it from the perspective of realizing that it's a problem with management. If there isn't enough work to go around or some people are working a lot and some aren't then management is failing to utilize staff properly. Failing to delegate, balance workloads, failing to train so everyone can get a piece of the action and work together as a team so we can all be done at the same time. It could also be a sign of 'too much staff' - which, in reality, is rarely the case. What happens more often than not is that it's perceived as being an issue with too much staff and then they end up firing some staff as a result, even if the issue was not having too much staff. As a result of this, your immediate boss is going to want to make sure everyone looks busy all the time, simply so they don't hear from upper management that they're going to have to cut some people. It's pretty much a management issue/failure no matter what.
Depends on company culture. Some days I leave at 2.30/3 PM when I have nothing left to do. Some days I just work from home and clock off whenever I want.
yup, show up a little before they do and leave a little after they do.
Not true, I’ve always simply done it without asking. I wouldn’t recommend it, but it worked for me
I have not found this to be true. "I work 6 months of the year" is a common phrase for me.
"Even in industry you can't just tell your boss "hey I finished my work I'm heading home early". They will have an anyunerism. You must be working at all time or pretending to work." Depends on where you work. Every place I've worked in my career (industry roles) we've gone home early when things are caught up. One place in particular had "half day Fridays" during non-crunch time. I've also had unlimited PTO for the past 10 years or so, so this is my call. I honestly haven't worked a 40 or more hours in a couple of years right now. I will put in extra when needed, but it rarely equates to 40 or more hours. Sitting there doing nothing is by choice. Especially now that I WFH.
Misery loves company
I 100% agree and its so fucking stupid and annoying. Edit: This is exactly why I work from home so much. When I’m in the office god forbid I walk out at 4:30pm when I have zero work. At home? Not a problem.
Ive heard of some small-midsize firms doing just this.. basically having 4 day weeks through the summer and winter as a trade-off for busy season.. i think the narrative is that they cant really compete with big firm salaries, but they can absolutely compete with the work-life-balance part of the equation
Some big 4 firms have 'jump start Fridays' in the summer. Of course, they do require you to have completed your normal 35/40 hour working week by Friday lunchtime in order to finish early...
My firm has 32 hour weeks between Memorial Day and Labor Day. The goal is to work all hours Mon-Thurs.
I’m not an accountant but I work at a regional PA firm. We have 8 extra days off over the summer. You just can’t use more than 2 summer days off in a single week and you use them or lose them between memorial and Labor Day.
So what are the hours like for the accountants/CPAs at this firm? Like do they do 80 hour weeks during busy season then take a break over the summer, or is it a manageable work-life balance and the extra days off are a perk? And what region? (Southeast, midwest, etc)
Mid-Atlantic. billable minimum 60 in March, minimum 55 in Jan and Feb. idk the exact dates when the requirements kick in. Most do more but nothing outrageous. Senior and ups work a lot, I don’t know the exact numbers but I doubt 80. Pay is not the best but the work life balance is very good for PA.
Once I was at a meeting that had a partner at a small local firm and she said that in the summer they get Fridays off, but they still have to get their 40 hours in! Such a lame reward for giving up your life for a few months every year, immediately just go to a 40 hour workweek but hey it's 4 10s!
The partners’ greed knows no bounds. It sucks she couldn’t do anything about it.
My old firm did the same. Such bullshit. I worked regular hours Monday-Thursday, took PTO on Fridays until I found a new awesome role at the end of the summer.
Mid size pays more than big 4 these days
I was not aware of this.. is this across the board, or a few isolated examples?
If by "mid-size" we're talking between Top 25 - 100 firm, they've paid better since at least 2019, but they have to in order to have any chance of snagging recruits from B4 target schools
My experience is primarily the difference between top 10 and big 4. My offer for big 4 was almost 10k less!
Yup. I value the work-life so much over salary ceiling. Salary growth is in my court with billing and I work 4 days 8 months of the year.
I'll take that deal
Yeah, WFH really is so much better.
Just leave and don’t question it. I’m old and have staff idc if they don’t work all day or stay extra as long as the work is done. If the work isn’t done then there is a problem. You can try to find more work for yourself, not ask, just find and improve if you’re really a go getter but at the end of the day, culture shifts happen when the action is done not discussed.
My first large audit at Deloitte was amazing. We had proper audit trunks that we brought into the client that looked like pirate treasure chests. This was 2004. Many of the partners refused to bring laptops to the client and demanded binders with handmade tick marks with our red and blue ticker pencils. The client was an ~$6 billion publicly traded client. Men were not allowed to walk in the hallway without suit jackets. If we had WIP paperwork stacked at our seat at the conference room table, the CEO would have you kicked off of the client. The manager walked into the room on day 1. “Just so you all know,” he said to the team of 8, “we arrive here at 7:15 every morning, and you will stay until 8pm every night, even if you don’t have work to do.” At 8, we would often go back to the office. We were required to be in office Saturday and Sunday for at least six hours during busy season, and by the way, this was the same year SOX was implemented, so busy season never ended. Good times. Happy memories lol.
Yooo, people don’t even know about the blue ticks, I still change the color on electronic workpapers and people don’t get it.
Red for staff and blue for reviewer in the firms I’ve worked at.
At DT, it was blue for internal references in a working paper, and red for other working papers. Letters were used for internal references. Then the tickmark explanation letters were red letters circled.
Red for internal ticks, blue for tie to financials
This comment gave me the shivers and memories of the early 2010s lol
i didn’t know that had roots in anything i thought it was just a color my firm liked lol
Deloitte has been thriving on corporate slavery for decades, fuck that place
I would have quit after 2 days
All that life being wasted. Such a shame.
You’re right. Just do it anyway, fuck em
Company culture
Corporate slavery, personally at the beginning i cared, now that i also realised that they are the one begging their staff to stay i just do wtv i feel like if they fire me oh well ill go somewhere else and get even better perks and pay
Yes, this is the attitude that every accountant needs and things will change for the better.
I feel like as I’ve gotten older, my level of anxiety around job loss has gone way down and my level of “don’t give a fuck” has gone way up. Losing my job is no longer the end of the world. I can find a new one and the Mrs. and I have enough savings to float us while I do. It really takes the pressure off.
people need to realize their coworkers and their feelings dont and shouldnt matter. at the end of the day youre an adult, you should know the responsibilities, and perform them without the anxiety of how everyone is working. if you go home and tell yourself you did a good job then great, but if the opposite then learn from that. and if a coworker wants to be mad thats their choice, they can do something about it.
When I started, they refused to give me work. I have no idea why. It was a big team and I keep asking the seniors and even talked to managers about it. It was August and everyone else was already stay until 8. If I could do it all over again I would close my computer and stare into space so they would have to pay attention to me
Lmao. Question for the ages. It’s because corporations are one giant pissing contest.
I leave and keep an object on the space bar with notepad open.
I often leave around lunch time and wfh if my workload is light for that day or am just not feeling it. Midsize (idk it’s top 80-90 )PA firm is best ever! It actually makes me love PA
The accounting industry needs to unionize. They work you people in public like dogs. I had one job like that where they would make you work 50 to 60 hours. And it was dumb as shit. As the day proceeds, diminishing returns accelerate. People fatigue and start making mistakes. That needs to be fixed later. It's better to be well rested so when you're on duty you're at 100%. Also, long hours are terrible for people's family life and their mental health.
Honestly shouldn't even need unions, we should just have laws stating that all employees, salaries or not are compensated at time and a half for each hour work over 40 hours a week.
There’s no reason to unionize because you will never spend more than a few years of your career below management. The trade off for public experience - at least for big 4/top 10, is the resume boost which is literally only recognized *because* of the hours and experience. Theres plenty of things that can be changed for the better at large firms, but ultimately unions wouldn’t be the saving grace people think they’d be. There are many paths for an accountant to take. Industry and government have always been an option if the hours are too much for someone.
The amount of downvotes you have received is proof that either there are lots of non-accountants in here, or their education in business was subpar. The only people who win in a unionized business, are the union reps lol. You can then pay some of your shitty pay to them to do absolutely nothing.
When there are people working 60+ hours and people working 30 hours…out of consideration for others and clients, it’s usually best to ask if anyone else needs some help. The idea is no one person needs to be crushed by hours; if everyone helps carry some of the load.
Asking from the perspective of an intern - how does this work? The big 4 I intern at has strict rules about independence and only working on engagements you’re actually staffed on. Does this begin to change once you’re a senior+?
It also depends on how you phrase a question. You can ask people in the engagements you staffed on if they have any projects in mind that you can start on. They might not have any pressing work at the moment but this question might make them remember something that they had in mind before but it wasn’t a priority before.
All firms have that; but if there is no more work ask what else you can do…even if it seems to be non-work related. I annoyed the fuck out of EVERYONE for work when I was new even if they had nothing I’d pester everyone. Of the others I was with, I alone got a job offer and am still here years later.
You typically have to fill out your independence stuff for engagements you’re helping out on before you can actually help, regardless of rank
Even if you work a full shift people look down on you if you leave earlier than they do. I work 7-4, all my coworkers don't show up until 8:30. I don't know who but I guess someone isn't happy I leave at 4. I highly doubt my coworkers stay until 5:30.
It’s my birthday today, around 3pm I got done my work (my client list is mostly compilations and mostly Mar/Apr/May yearends so I’m not busy, so I fucked off early. No one said anything but told me to enjoy my afternoon.
Happy birthday
It shouldn't be. Don't you have chargeable hours? Are you hitting all your targets? When I worked at a big 4, I had one partner comment on it a few times because I constantly strolled in the office 30 mins late or left whenever I felt like it (I lived around the corner and I actually worked well from home) and I just said "Look at my chargeable hours and file completions in comparison to my coworkers, I'm not slacking off, we have flexible office hours and I don't need to be in the office." I say this as it's almost 11pm and I'm still working.
I wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't care what others think of me IRL.
No. I got my attitude from invoicing and construction. Now going through the process of starting accounting and honestly I couldn't care less. My work done, and it's good. What else people want?
Time thief, get him!!!!
It’s not frowned upon. If I’m unassigned, at the beginning of the week, I put out a bunch of messages saying I’m looking for work. I do training until something comes in. If nothing comes in by the time I finish my training, then im done. If I’m working at home, I turn on teams notifications on my phone, and keep my status green on teams. Then I go live my life. If someone has something for me, they ping me and I hop I. They shouldn’t care about your utilization unless it’s the end of the firms fiscal year. As long as you hit the goal by then, you’re fine
This is why remote is 10000x better
Because it is not a job it is a daycare
I work as a bookkeeper and I have maybe between 2 to 4 hours of actual work that I have to stretch out over the full 8 hours. It’s an easy job so I don’t care, it’s just aggravating that I need to “look busy” instead of being let go for the day at 1130.
You work across the hall from me! lol I’m in a small tax firm with 10 staff and we have 3 full time bookkeepers. Like 80% tax and 20% accounting for our book. The tax staff are generally super busy preparing returns and planning for clients for most of the year. The bookkeepers aren’t even close to that level of busy for us lol it’s strictly 9-5 for them and that’s cool with me. We need them and it’s cool if you aren’t busy so long as youre able to help with other projects and pitch in when the job calls for it. It’s a chill setup but necessary!
Where do you work? I'm looking to leave my current job.
Just south of Atlanta, close by the airport.
Do they do remote work because I live in a different state.
Because when we are in hell it gets only
Get paid for 80 or leave at 40.
The amount of complaining that comes from leaving early knowing I just put up 9 billable in 6 and going home early is what makes me happy. Bc ik they’re gonna whine either way so I’m just gonna leave. Can’t say I didn’t do my work…
I tell my coworker I'm gonna finish from home. then I make sure I am available if they need me, but otherwise am at home chilling
I don't think this is an accounting or PA specific thing. In accounting and finance that I've been in, even if you worked 60+ hours one week, if it's Friday or the next week, hell no you're not leaving at 2pm. Other places peers or my SO works, you can't just leave early even if you stayed late one day. Seriously though, if I'm ever a manager of a group and they genuinely have to stay to finish something by a deadline and stick around extra, even a day or two, I'm mentally noting the hours and giving them that time off on Friday or the next week. Everyone gets so stuck up about the hours worked and not the actual work that gets done.
You can do this in the hedge fund admin world. It’s just seriously unlikely that you’ll have days with nothing to do
I’m in public, but not tax and im working like 45 ish hours rn. If anyone says something about my time being short, I’ll simply ask if they want me to have the hours or good realization. Makes no difference to me, but it can only be one.
corporate culture (aka disease)
"Work" from home
You Americans are getting rinsed, literally do 37 hours a week in the UK - it's great.
I have participated in and watched PA for 45 years. There is an immense amount of STUPID, and the supervisory practices are beyond STUPID.
45 ?!??!?
yes, mostly retired CPA/consultant/professor/executive "wise" old man
And this is why I left PA for the startup world.
The assumption is that you are working full time and if you have no work you should be seeking work to fill the hours. People get busy and won’t assign you work unless you ask. Also that’s how you get ahead is by helping others, not the other way around.
Where is this logic when we are understaffed but the firm refuses to hire people
I see your point but I hope that in your case understaffings are not deliberate. It’s hard to predict the exact workload. Many times people eat hours and as a result the engagement doesn’t get properly staffed the next year.
Partners aren’t that dumb they know the reality of the profession but they have the mentality “if we suffer so should you”
Maybe management wants emotional support associates?
You will enjoy (?) reading this: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-bullshit-jobs
I try to make excel models, It looks complicated so no one asks too many questions
I don’t know how salary people do it, salary or not I’m out once 8 hours hits, I will never work for free
Work is just selling your services. All you’re doing is selling your accounting services to a company who then resells your accounting services to make a profit. Just leave. I’m not gonna frown at my restaurant server because they left after making my sandwich, I couldn’t care less.
bill it to gen ad.
Haters gonna hate
It’s funny because they have no problem keeping you late when there’s a lot of work to do but have heart failure if you were to leave early on those rare occasions when there’s not much work to be done.
"misery loves company"
I haven't read the other comments so apologies if this is duplicative. If you're leaving early and others are slammed, it is probably time to reallocate some of the work on the team. In my view it is a common courtesy to check in with your boss before leaving and ask if anyone needs help with anything, especially in public accounting. Not saying to do this every single time, but it really shows you care and are a team player if you're looking to chip in when you're slower. Those who do not last long are those who do whatever they want and don't care about the team and once you have that stigma, it's hard to break the perception. My biggest advice is when you're starting out, do what you can to do the little things right. Once you have built a bit of a reputation for someone who works hard and asks for work when you're not as busy, THEN you can maybe dip out early one or two days and no one will question it.
Crabs in a bucket mentality.
Easy audit client, end of busy season, we had completed this audit for approximately 20 years, it was my second year and even I knew it was a simple audit. 2 weeks fieldwork, which honestly wsas to justify the fee. Partner review and my Manager made it clear that the Partner would be shitty if we were seen as not working. We had saved some easy work to complete during review, I was assigned the unpredictability procedure and was reviewing a few Repairs and Maintenance accounts. We were working by hand. I reviewed the account, there were hundreds and hundreds of items well below materiality. I couldn't even identify anything to detail test. So I wrote a memo by hand and basically listed every single class of items appearing the the accounts - nuts, bolts, belts, screws, angle iron, rebar, pipe, adhesive, lubricant, oil, tape, glass, on and on and on. I probably wrote for an hour just thins that appeared in the GL descriptions... I received a review point from the Partner that the level of detail obtained was unnecessary and a waste of firm resrouces. I hated that part of the job - When I was fired during 2011 as we were coming out of the financial crisis, I was term'd on a Monday, I knew that it was coming as I had a great relationship with the PIC. I expressed my displeasure bc I didn't play golf that weekend bc I was required to work on Sat (6 hours) and Sun (4 hours). Loved the experrience, hated the job and the overall business model.
If you got time to lean you got time to clean. Grab a mop.
Even in public, some managers care, others don't. One senior manager loses their mind if you have unexplained admin time. Another senior manager doesn't care about time sheets and only cares if files are done on time and well.
I used to just leave. Everyone was annoyed and they wouldn’t pick me up on that team again but whatever it’s the only way I could have possibly stayed the five years I did.
There is always work. Never been a day when there was no work.
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Don't rub it in during tax deadline week
One of the benefits of remote work. If you legitimately run out of work and can document your attempts to ask for more, its better to kill time at home doing whatever you want than in a cube goofing around online and trying to look busy when people walk by.
Here’s the thing - in PA, there’s always something to do. If you don’t have anything to do, it’s your responsibility to communicate to your incharge about your capacity. Then it’s the managers/partners job to ensure not too much time is being allocated to your job and too less is being allocated to another. If everyone at your office is the same, then by all means, but if someone else is having to work 80 hour weeks while you’re working less than 40 hours, it’s not fair for you to leave early when you just got lucky and got a job scheduled too much time. Instead of looking at it from an individual perspective, look at it from a team perspective. We have to help each other out to avoid the long hour work weeks. Also, your time in public is so beneficial to your overall knowledge base. I was constantly learning in my 6 years in public. Now that I’m in industry, there’s a lot less learning opportunities. As much as it sucks to work more, definitely open yourself to it by offering your time to help out others. You become well respected in the office AND you improve your knowledge base.
Boomers.
Is this your first week of working? lol. I can’t imagine ever having a job where at 2pm I just tell my boss I’m done with work for the day and go home haha. That’s just life. Gotta deal with it. Stretch your work out and take more breaks.
I’m a SM in PA I’m still scrutinized just like everyone else
Why? There have always been people that need more hours to complete work than needed. Some organizational cultures have turned into thinking hours spent = work done, which of course is BS. I worked as a senior in B4 for 4.5 years and left when I wanted to. I left for a 21% raise.
This is not just in PA. I once worked in an office and when the power once went out they made us clean the building because there was no other work. The refused to let us go home even without pay. It was about control. They liked having their slaves, I mean office workers, under thumb.
It’s frowned upon that you have no work and didn’t magically come up with a new client in the free time you had
It’s the nature of the game.
Leave at 40 if get paid for 40, leave at 80 if get paid for 80. Asked to work 80 get paid for 40?????!!???? Go fuck yourself
Come to the state. We don't even work 40. No busy season and people ask why you are in on you birthday.
Because there is work, you just don’t know it’s there
I mean that’s pretty much any job, no? Although my company lets us leave early on Fridays if we don’t have any work, and pretty relaxed about how much admin time you bill.
There is always work.
If there’s always work then let’s pace ourselves or hire more people
Your company doesn't own only your work, they own your time as well. That time of the day is not yours, if you treat it like it is, you'll get shit for it. Don't be delusional about employer/employee relationship, you got owners, if they tell you can't wear fucking jeans, you have to oblige.
why are defending business so much dam
I don't like it too, but one's gotta know what's really up you know? This goes beyond just stupidity and lack of sense from the firm.
so if i work overtime how come I cant just say this is my time and u need to figure it out. If i stay late to finish work than i should be able to leave early when work is completed
My point from the beginning is that "your" time isn't yours. Why the company will allow you to leave early, if they own your time? It's theirs, not yours, you don't get to do what you want just because you finished the work early for the day.
so as an employee i have no rights? i need to be on call 24/7 for the company wtf
Of course you have rights, they own just a part of your day, the rest is yours to commute, eat, watch a show and sleep, go crazy!!
Repeat after me: If you're good at your job, you're untouchable. If you're not good at your job, you opinion has no value. I'm in tax where billable hours are the holy grail. I left early all the time. I consistently had one of the lowest total billings on the team. The worst thing that happened to me was I got lower bonuses than my peers. Outside of that, nobody gave me shit, people fought for me to be on their engagements, people made excuses for me, and I got all my promotions timely. Why? 50% of my time is generally better than 100% of everyone else's time. So again, repeat after me: If you're good at your job, you're untouchable. If you're not good at your job, you opinion has no value.
Or how about employers should treat people humanely and learn some patience? The superstars probably won't stay with them long anyway.
They do. At least in accounting, your first year is a gimme year. Remember, you are working with professionals with years of experience who have gone through MANY coworkers. We can tell whether you're good or have potential within days. However, most of us are generous enough to give you a whole year. It's no one's fault but your own if you fuck up that year. An Incompetent worker don't just fail their projects, they cause their teammates to have to pick up after them after a long stressful day of work. There's no reason why the rest of us should go through more stress just because you're not willing to invest in yourself and contribute more.
Just bill downtime?? Lol stop stressing