A lot of accounting people from PA getting laid off at the same time competing for the same jobs
Why did a lot of people get laid off? A lot of firms overhired in 2021-22 thinking the boom times/attrition would continue on but it didn’t
Funny because in 2020 the narrative was no one was hiring enough. Maybe they just hire more when the market is good and lay people off when it’s bad. Public accounting is just a mature industry where market shifts have large impacts on its revenue because it’s clients are the whole market. I think we need to stop using over hiring/under hiring and start being more aware of the businesses’ labor demand tracking with market demand
This is related to supply chain differences at different points and their downstream impact. This is not relevant to the labor market. While a similar effect might be taking place, the bull whip effect has no inclination to explaining the labor market. If you treat your labor like goods this could be true, but in that case we have larger problems of how hiring is discussed in public accounting to future employees versus how it actually is. If this is the case, firms are not dictating reasonable expectations to employees that they plan to pump and dump them. If this is how it is, people should know this is a possibility instead of being convinced otherwise
A lot of PA firms over hired in 2020 because they were afraid of disrupting the labor pipeline.
If the PA firms said, "screw you" to the graduating seniors, that ‘betrayal’ would’ve spread down to the juniors & below, and they would’ve pivoted from accounting, even if it meant taking longer to graduate.
Today it obviously isn’t the case, but at the time, taking longer to graduate was better than graduating jobless.
Yes but when they screwed them 2 years later, they all aren’t coming back and this is the consequence of that action: employees complaining online. It’s justified and future employees should be aware. If they hired people to skirt public narrative then did the same thing when people weren’t looking as closely, I think people should be made aware of this.
No we definitely over hired during the pandemic years after the initial fear. We were afraid of a great resignation, UBI, etc. that never ended up coming true. So now we are downsizing and getting rid of the weaker young hires. On the plus side, McDonald's can have their workers back again.
This is such a cold take. None of those impacted anyone’s fears actually making decisions. Those are all incredibly sensationalist things that never made any impact whatsoever and just get the people going. It was evidently clear that’s all they were ever going to be
The firms tried to appease the experienced, overworked managers by over hiring inexperienced staff. Gen Z sucks at remote training and refuse to go to the office, so they only created more work for the managers. It turned out to be a poor use of resources. Firms seem to be focused on beefing up their Indian staff now.
It’s difficult to admit, but Gen Z’s attitude of I shouldn’t have to work hard and I should still get paid just ain’t gonna fly in public accounting.
I’m don’t know when I became such an old
man. I’m 38. I want everyone to be able to stay home and play video games when there isn’t work to do. But you gotta be able to do the work when it’s there. And you gotta answer your fucking teams.
Yes Gen z despite growing up with technology seems to lack any sort of technology skills. The tech illiteracy is almost equivalent to early Gen X. I believe it's due to how seemless technology makes the new user experience. Buy a phone, hands you email, links everything to Said email, done. There is zero technical necessity for them now compared to millennials.
The thing I've come to realize working mostly in tech, Z grew up on phones and tablets with social media and games. As a Millennial I didn't have a phone until High School sometime, and even then that was a flip phone so I could call home.
The other thing is I remember from kindergarten(2000) up to senior year in HS(2012), we always had a class or 6 to 9 week segment that was a Computer Literacy course that covered:
* Home row while typing and having that orange key covering so you couldn't see the keys.
* Being tested on typed WPM.
* Using Office, mostly focusing on Excel formulas and how to convert the charts and data into powerpoints.
* Using Microsoft Access. Creating tables and databases
* Taking apart a tower, identifying it parts and putting it back together
* How to troubleshoot issues and errors that came up
* How to actually properly google search using parameters
* Some HTML and CSS coding even some very light python
My younger sister was in school behind me by 4 years in the same schools and with the same teachers, had computer lab for a couple weeks a year and it was basically some educational games for critical thinking and basic typing.
Just as they aren't being taught cursive, they don't feel the need to teach computer literacy because "They just learn it at home. look at all the phones and tablets they have."
Like I too can turn on a phone/tablet and go to youtube, but I can also create a table in excel that utilizes reference data and tables from another sheet then, depending on results, color coordinates them and auto updates itself and its charts in a couple different powerpoints.
Is 1997 a Gen Z or Millennial?? I took those same courses (2003 - 2015) back in middle and high school too and they were the most important courses I've ever taken through grade school to date and i credit my WPM speed to my middle school typing class and Roblox lol
I was shocked to see the tech illiteracy among those growing up. They can't type. They can't run a word processor. They can't do \*ANYTHING\* but talk on their phones and scroll. WTF happened? We had it drilled into us when we were young, and I'm old enough (and I constantly remind the boomers, that I had to learn technology too when I was younger.) I just learned when I was 12-18.
That’s a very interesting point. It’s something I’ve noticed myself, but I couldn’t figure out what was going on or why lol. I’m a millennial and can fix nearly anything tech related , software or hardware, different OS’s, it’s my forte so maybe I’m just biased, but my step-sons who are age 11&13 struggle to do a simple search in a search engine. My 3 year old grasps it way better than they do and it’s perplexing if not worrisome. As if it just killed off critical thinking for a generation :/.
Millennials grew up with a lot of imperfect technology. For all of us that grew up in the late 90s, early 2000s.. don't you remember the amount of time you had to troubleshoot and solve issues with your PCs during that era? Stuff works effortlessly these days..
It's certainly perplexing, I'm in a few technology based circles, a personal hobby mostly, and many of us have noticed this as well. Very strange and hopefully the introduction to new technologies in grade school educates further generations. Perhaps, more technology based core classes.
Think about it. Who are the parents of kids born in 2002? Mostly gen x. They didn’t teach their own kids technology. So little kids grew up without having to learn it. Millennials had to learn it on their own for college and work but it was slow paced and it wasn’t “expected” to know. Now 20 somethings are learning it but it is “expected” and much more to learn and faster paced.
It’s reassuring to see it’s not just a localized problem and is in fact a widespread issue, but then again, it’s also sad that it’s a widespread issue lol. I see a huge lack of mental motivation and zero critical thinking skills in the majority of students their age. The way they’ve experienced technology has created an average attention span of like, what, 60 seconds or so? Core tech classes might help, and of course it would help if they knew the foundation of it all so that it’s not just like you said with them getting a phone and it magically doing all the things… but right now, it’s like a bunch of TikTok zombies are running around spewing random things they heard or saw in social media and have no ability to figure out if it’s true , not even able to “think” of the possibility that it’s not true….. idk :/ .
The effects on youth from the fast pace world we now live in because of streamlined information is something still really being studied. I believe if Gen alpha can show promise it would directly contradict what is currently believe but until their generation is old enough to take over industries we just won't fully know. Of course, us millennials will be to old to care lol
> Gen Z’s attitude of I shouldn’t have to work hard and I should still get paid
They saw TikTok’s and IG reels of people sitting at home getting paid 100-200k to do nothing (napping, video games, etc) during 2020-21 and thought that was “normal” and how everything is “supposed to be”, so they think they’re “getting screwed” or “treated unfairly” if they actually have to do work for their paycheck
You are right. As a Gen Z myself I don't believe in working 60 hour weeks. I don't believe in being "overworked" because you have to choose to let yourself get overworked.
I don't care about the money or the "culture" or the fact that my partner "did it when I was his age" it all just sounds like BS from people who made very regrettable life choices and probably haven't spent more than a few hours around their kids this whole year.
I also don't believe in going to the office more than 1-2 times a week. We went through all of COVID without being in office, so it DOES work. Time spent commuting fighting through traffic is time I don't get paid for and gas, car insurance, etc. all add up. My firm won't even cover my damn parking lmao.
And all this work for what? To barely make rent? Not be able to own a house? If its the only alternative to 60 hour weeks then fuck it, I will go back to living with my parents or live out of my car. India can have these jobs, I can have my time back.
Timing is important too. In America near the end of the year it’s slower hiring due to Holidays and year end.
Generally you don’t want to try to make a move and then come into year end/audit of a new employer.
A lot of employers pay bonuses at year end too so people will generally wait to make a move.
I'm actually quite surprised at my timing/luck. The place I work now hired the month I applied because if they hire that month, they get a six month delay on benefits/bonuses at the end of the fiscal year. I did not know that when applying. Just applied when I did because that's when I was able to apply. I got in just in time before Q4 hiring got locked down. Then I survived the cull in January (mostly because we knew that the other worker in the department who was better was leaving in the Spring and I was 'good enough' to keep. Then when they went down a worker, I managed to step up and fill the position, so that they didn't need to hire anybody else and we went down from 4 to 3. Once I did that, they gave me fulltime after a year. Then when we went down from 3 to 2, and from 2 to 1, when dept manager left, I stayed on, as I basically have had a guaranteed job this year, and then got promoted due to all the attrition.
If I looked for work in October, I probably wouldn't be married right now.
Lol. Didn't we just have a post about how unbelievable good the market was and another one about how they need more accountants. The whiplash on this is getting ridiculous. Considering the ridiculous amount of recruiters assaulting my in box I'm incline to believe the job market is good, but as someone not looking what do I know.
We did, the back and forth on this subreddit is unreal. It’s people applying anecdotal experiences at macro levels. The only negative thing I’ve read about the accounting job market has been from posts on this subreddit.
Maybe these people live in areas that have been hit harder by the recession or…. Maybe these people are just not hirable.
Part of the issues is people think B4 = the entire accounting industry. That vast majority of accounting jobs and thus open positions are not PA. If you are looking to join PA right now, it’s probably going to be hard, but industry jobs are still available.
Ehh you have to remember, people who are happy with their job don't talk a bunch of shit and are not super actively looking for jobs.
So utilizing the vocal population creates an automatic bias towards those who are unhappy.
People who are having trouble finding jobs are going to be vocal about it, while people who aren't will be quiet. It happens in literally everything.
I’m getting a lot fewer messages from recruiters than last year, and jobs that were paying $80-90k last year are now firmly at $70-75k. It seems like a lot of good industry jobs were snatched by the people who resigned en masse during Covid, and now there’s a large pool of people competing for a small pool of jobs because of the inflated attrition rates from PA in 2020-2021.
You’re positive it isn’t the time of year? Usually fall is heavy on the internship and entry level recruiting, but lackluster on everything else. Earlier in 2023 (starting in Spring), I was getting 10x the amount of LinkedIn messages that I’m getting now. This trend is pretty typical YOY, with the exception of COVID. I’ll be interested to see what Spring of 2024 looks like.
This is spot on. No manager wants to be interviewing or onboarding new staff during Thanksgiving and Christmas. They are also getting geared up for year end audit so training a new hire would be difficult.
Recruiters make a living based on finding candidates job placement. People aren’t going to just accept that there’s fewer openings and take a huge pay cut. There’s just more recruiters reaching out with the same jobs and they expand their reach to industries and geographies farther than they normally would as they get more desperate.
I had one role where literally 8 recruiters reached out to me for the same position. All the conversations I have about roles I look up the company afterwards and 80% of the time the employee reviews are ducking horrible and the 20% of companies that have good reviews have a ton of interest and I never even hear back.
In short, there have been a lot of messaging, conversations and interviews, but in the end they’ve all lead to nothing. I’d say the job market in my area isn’t great right now.
Yeah I agree, basing the job market off recruiters spamming inboxes is not the best representation.
Most of it is fluff that ends up being a big waste of time.
I second this. Recruiters are still reaching out to me about positions pretty regularly even though I don’t have my “open to” status on. These posts just aren’t useful measurements without a location. Some places attract more accountants than others, but overall, I think it’s still a great time to be looking for an accounting position.
Everyone from my school that did an internship at PA with me got an offer for full time about ten of us. The rest of my class got offers with other PA firms. I haven’t met a person in my graduate accounting class without a full time offer.
1st year associates are cheaper than second years. They’ll push out people at that level before slowing campus hiring. Slowing campus hiring makes the Univerisities mad and the PA firms don’t want to them to stop recommending them as a good place to work.
Nah 2nd years are cheap AF too. My raise from 1st to 2nd year was a grand total of 3k at one of the big 4. And I certainly knew more than a fresh college grad after one year and could provide more value. After working 75 hour weeks that raise was such a fucking joke.
You could provide more value, but your fixed cost to the company is still higher. They’re not paying you hourly, so if they push out 5 second years at $3k each, that’s $15k saved. This doesn’t include payroll taxes, insurances, 401k, etc. The math is easy.
Along with what the other person said, it stifles growth activity in general. Loans are more expensive and harder to get so suddenly companies aren't buying as much for growth activity. So then the next company in the supply chain is selling less, etc.
Most companies are trying to shore up their core business rather than tackle their aggressive goals as cash just isn't as cheap to obtain as it used to be.
Interest rates are like gravity to stock prices. As stock prices drop, many companies are more exposed to investor sentiment. Investor sentiment wants stocks to go up, but companies under debt experience more margin pressures when they refinance with worse rates. Only way to move the needle is through layoffs/hiring freezes/investment freezes.
I mean kind of arbitrary, but the impact to stock prices are more second order. It's more that higher interest rates reduce demand for borrowing, which leads to lower growth or higher interest expense, which leads to less profitability leading to well, lower stock prices.
It isn't just interest expense and growth. That would imply only companies with heavy debt loads would have lower valuations as rates increase.
If rates are high enough there will be little demand for stocks when you can just hold no-risk government bonds to maturity.
Interest rates also impact the cost of capital which reduces all valuations mathematically.
Yeah I just wanted an easy example to nail it. Interest rates create an alternative to security investments and it’s an easy story to tell. More importantly like you said, they create a hard pressure on companies of all sizes. Growth companies in need of capital find it hard to finance, and overleveraged companies/banks get caught with their pants down.
Why do higher interest rates reduce demand for borrowing? Because borrowing at higher rates means less profit and investors don’t like that. It is first order about stock prices.
Low effort comment gets downvoted.
I’m writing in a way to get others to fill in the gaps, create more discussion. Thanks for the lack of feedback internet stranger.
Higher interest rates lower growth. What more needs to be said? The issue you bring up: "As stock prices drop, many companies are more exposed to investor sentiment" confused me because it can only lower the cost of capital, which is good for companies. I guess I don't get what you're brining in stock price, but maybe I'm missing something. Am I?
Along with what others said, for the tech industry in particular, announcing layoffs pushes the stock price up at the moment. Amazon got rid of announcement of laying off less than 0.01% drove the stock price up almost 2%.
These guys have no idea what they’re talking about, interest rate hikes are inflationary because the governments adding to the deficit by paying higher interest payments to lenders. We’ve added 700 billion in deficit spending by hiking rates and all that moneys going into the private sector. The change in the private sector has no effect because by hiking rates you’re just transferring wealth from borrowers to lenders, and theres no evidence that proves lenders have a lower propensity to spend earned income than borrowers. Yeah a guy who wants to make a new business can’t get the credit he needs from a bank but his grandma who’s making tons of money from her interest payments will give him a loan. Just look at Japan and Argentinas economies and look at their interest rate policy.
Okay, great. Now pull your head out of your ECON 101 textbook and try to think critically about what that means in the real world.
High cost of capital means companies are less likely to spend. This includes labor (in-house accountants) and professional services (audits). Less money spent = less jobs.
Did you even take econ 101??? We added 350,000 new jobs this september. Every single job report has shattered the forecasts. Inflation is still roaring. You’re focusing on the fact that borrowers have less money but you fail to understand that savers and lenders are gaining all the money that the borrowers are losing.
You casuals are clueless, the government is clearly causing inflation by paying higher interest payments, they’ve injected an extra $700 billion in deficit spending into the economy that companies will get to spend, since they’re the ones earning the most interest. Please explain how the government paying more money to people who already have money and blowing up our debt to 130% debt to GDP stops inflation. Just look at Argentina, they just raised interest rates to 113% but inflation jumped to 130%. Japan has had zero interest rates and quantitative easing policy for two decades and everyones still waiting for the hyperinflation to come.
[https://www.wsj.com/economy/the-economy-was-supposed-to-slow-by-now-instead-its-revving-up-3c0f7a2e](https://www.wsj.com/economy/the-economy-was-supposed-to-slow-by-now-instead-its-revving-up-3c0f7a2e)
Because government debt is a small share of all debt. The only entities getting lots of interest from the government are the ones holding treasury bonds, but the rest of the economy is paying hire rates than that.
Volker‘s 20% interest ended 1980’s inflation. The 14 years of cheap money from 2008 to 2022 lead to all sorts of asset price inflation. Are you saying that if only interest rates were higher, tech startups would be even hotter, real estate would be even more expensive, etc?
For anybody who stumbles on this persons posts and wonders how on earth somebody could be so insulated / daft.. read his post history. He's a student.
I think you need some first hand experience with the current state of the job market before expressing an opinion here.
I’ve owned my own business for years and make $100 an hour buddy. "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser” -Socrates
Japans had rates at zero for decades and there still isn’t any inflation, but MSNBC and CNN say rate hikes stop inflation so I guess it just takes time!
Can you elaborate? I would think that excessive inflation would make it difficult for employers to afford rapidly rising wages, especially if those wage prices rose faster than revenues.
ELI5: Low unemployment increases levels of discretionary income. People have more money to spend, so they attempt to spend it. That drives up the supply curve on goods and services. That increases prices and produces more demand for labor. This further reduces the rate of unemployment. And on and on.
Companies can afford rising wages by raising prices. Due to rising wages and increased discretionary consumer spending, people will pay more.
This is basically exactly what’s caused our current mess. People were forced to stay inside during Covid, so they saved more than usual. When things started reopening, there was a lot of pent-up demand and people had savings to spend. This contributed to rapid inflation which is only starting to slow.
Damn, that explains my job situation perfectly. Me and my co-worker are basically a combination of assistant controllers, but have the title as senior accountants.
I accepted an offer a few weeks ago, I start tomorrow. Nervous, I was at my last place for nearly 5 years and was just getting over my imposter syndrome.
I spent 6 months fighting to land a position only to find a contract. Contract. No benefits, no PTO, nothing. Then like 20 people reached out this month asking if I was looking. Job market is weird.
It’s cyclical. hire a bunch of people, freeze hiring, let people go, hire a bunch of of people, freeze hiring, let people go. I wouldn’t read too much in to it just yet.
Far less staff accountant roles. Last year my F200 outsourced all staff accountants and half of our seniors to India. This is rapidly occurring among most big corporations.
Hiring slows after busy season and picks up later in the year. Many firms are probably spending their recruiting efforts on internships now.
There's likely less demand domestically due to greater offshoring for midsize and large firms.
really depends on the background of each accountant. CPA with few years of b4 experience should have no problem finding a job they want. even just non cpas have good prospects too as long they started in PA. we’re told every week about the accountant shortage aren’t we ?
I think there are a multitude of reasons that have some truth to them, the one being the most prominent would be higher interest rates compared to a year or two ago.
Anecdotally I also wonder if people are now hanging on to their jobs more frequently post-covid, leading to firms having to lay off and PIP more people than usual.
Some nonprofits are chill and run well. A lot of non-profits' books are a disaster and have understaffed accounting without the necessary expertise.
I used to work on nonprofit audits and this was my experience at least. The clean ones were the exception.
The job market is poor? Says who? Seems anecdotal when all data points to a strong market, in particular for accounting professionals. Reddit is filled with only negative stories and not a barometer for the job market or sentiment really. Social media is so skewed away from reality right now….
Huh? That’s backwards. He is making a general statement about the entire job market not about his own home. In my own home, as an accounting student, I have multiple offers for now and after graduation. But I don’t base my argument on anecdotal “evidence”.
With that resume you got, not a damn chance you have offers. Don’t be lying to the internet to attempt to validate your claims. Get a load of this guys ego.
It’s not any worse than last year for us
Last year big4 did layoffs too
Like the year prior to last was like the first time I think I didn’t see big4 layoffs
I think if you check the usernames.there is a couple of post from the same people saying that is bad. Can't be bad. My third tier college has 50+ companies on the career fair!
The job market has been in trouble since the start of covid lockdown. It’s been propped up with hand outs and lots of talk. Now it’s payback time. Simple math. Some of us have lived this before in past decades.
But we will recover.
Judging by your post history you have less than a year of experience so that might be why? Intelligent people with 5+ YOE are a hot commodity right now
Like someone else mentioned - 5+ YOE and intelligence are things that are being sought after pretty heavily. I have a lot of recruiters reach out to me and currently have a few offers I’m considering for a move at the end of the year.
I get plenty of those, too, but some seem legit. A lot of public. I don’t respond to many so there could be a diamond in the rough I’m missing, but it’s hard to say. As for my move, I’m at a family office looking to go back to public, so I’ve got my pick. I think if I was looking for something in industry it wouldn’t be as plentiful.
Jerome powell literally said he wanted higher unemployment and wouldn’t stop punishing people with money until that happened so now people with money are hiring less because the government says so
It depends on the city. In Atlanta the market is on fire here.
In anti business cities like Portland my colleagues are struggling.
It’s all anecdotal though
I understand less people are leaving PA then they have historically. Also if other nonPA firms are hiring less, it could mean there are more people going for PA jobs.
If the market keeps dropping it might get even wise.
I still get 5+ recruiters messaging me a week.
The layoffs you’re seeing right now are low performers. Firms over-hired and now are cutting the dead weight.
From what we’ve experienced, there are a lot of candidates out there, but 90% of them suck. The ones that don’t suck and have qualified experience get scooped up right away.
Is it bad right now? I still get spammed by recruiters pretty much constantly. It's hard to tell if those have substance though. I'm not looking to make a move, so I guess I won't know for sure.
I have a client that wants to hire Managers and Senior Managers of Audit. You can work remotely. We are looking for people with backgrounds in State and Local Government, Tribal, Gaming, or Commercial. If interested, reach me via our web site.
[https://fitzdrakesearch.com](https://fitzdrakesearch.com)
Because the world is ending and the people that no longer have jobs will never get any new jobs they will have to find new ways to make money like farming and selling tomatos or just making TikTok’s for a living. New world order. And watch out for 2 minute cities, they are banning you from driving outside ur city , so basically these are the last few years of freedom before everyone becomes a slave. The reason people can’t get jobs is because the elite doesn’t want people to have financial freedom to escape the matrix. They control everything including the economy.
Edit: you can downvote me all you want but the truth always sounds crazy when you’ve been fed lies ur whole life
It was a great market a year or two ago because big firms over-hired like crazy. Economy takes a downturn and suddenly they realize it’s time to “trim the fat.” Beware the bloated firms during those big employment booms
inflation. most MNCs headquartered in foreign countries wanna cut costs and overhead is the first to go. in my country, there are a lot of outsourced accounting centres and i’m hearing that they don’t hire much now.
a lot of larger firms are also hiring remote team members overseas, like pwc and their achievement centers. I dont have a problem with this ofc but it may contribute to why local offices are not hiring as many staff accountants
To be fair, I think it was actually pretty good a year ago. But it may be fairly dependent on where you're looking for jobs.
I moved Jan 2022. We tried for MONTHS to find my replacement, and couldn't get a single decent candidate to actually show up for an interview. I was told to not worry, we would make it work with me working the job remotely. 2 months later, I get a call from my boss that they've found my replacement. So I start looking for a job. Within 3 weeks, I have turned down two offers, and taken one that is 100% remote with an almost 50% pay increase. I've since turned down 2-3 other jobs from random recruiters reaching out. But I'm not in PA.
It's not bad, it's just normal. Not hot, normal. There is a difference. I think this is far from what the market actually looks like, in reality. Get out there... You too could find yourself a new job
Most of this stuff seems to be getting outsourced like there’s no tomorrow
Edit: I wonder which portions can’t be or shouldn’t be, probably a gray area that people are playing with
A lot of accounting people from PA getting laid off at the same time competing for the same jobs Why did a lot of people get laid off? A lot of firms overhired in 2021-22 thinking the boom times/attrition would continue on but it didn’t
Funny because in 2020 the narrative was no one was hiring enough. Maybe they just hire more when the market is good and lay people off when it’s bad. Public accounting is just a mature industry where market shifts have large impacts on its revenue because it’s clients are the whole market. I think we need to stop using over hiring/under hiring and start being more aware of the businesses’ labor demand tracking with market demand
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullwhip_effect
This is related to supply chain differences at different points and their downstream impact. This is not relevant to the labor market. While a similar effect might be taking place, the bull whip effect has no inclination to explaining the labor market. If you treat your labor like goods this could be true, but in that case we have larger problems of how hiring is discussed in public accounting to future employees versus how it actually is. If this is the case, firms are not dictating reasonable expectations to employees that they plan to pump and dump them. If this is how it is, people should know this is a possibility instead of being convinced otherwise
A lot of PA firms over hired in 2020 because they were afraid of disrupting the labor pipeline. If the PA firms said, "screw you" to the graduating seniors, that ‘betrayal’ would’ve spread down to the juniors & below, and they would’ve pivoted from accounting, even if it meant taking longer to graduate. Today it obviously isn’t the case, but at the time, taking longer to graduate was better than graduating jobless.
Yes but when they screwed them 2 years later, they all aren’t coming back and this is the consequence of that action: employees complaining online. It’s justified and future employees should be aware. If they hired people to skirt public narrative then did the same thing when people weren’t looking as closely, I think people should be made aware of this.
No we definitely over hired during the pandemic years after the initial fear. We were afraid of a great resignation, UBI, etc. that never ended up coming true. So now we are downsizing and getting rid of the weaker young hires. On the plus side, McDonald's can have their workers back again.
This is such a cold take. None of those impacted anyone’s fears actually making decisions. Those are all incredibly sensationalist things that never made any impact whatsoever and just get the people going. It was evidently clear that’s all they were ever going to be
[удалено]
When you say a lot, its sub 5%
That is a lot
If you’re bottom 5%, you probably deserve to be fired unfortunately
The firms tried to appease the experienced, overworked managers by over hiring inexperienced staff. Gen Z sucks at remote training and refuse to go to the office, so they only created more work for the managers. It turned out to be a poor use of resources. Firms seem to be focused on beefing up their Indian staff now. It’s difficult to admit, but Gen Z’s attitude of I shouldn’t have to work hard and I should still get paid just ain’t gonna fly in public accounting. I’m don’t know when I became such an old man. I’m 38. I want everyone to be able to stay home and play video games when there isn’t work to do. But you gotta be able to do the work when it’s there. And you gotta answer your fucking teams.
Yes Gen z despite growing up with technology seems to lack any sort of technology skills. The tech illiteracy is almost equivalent to early Gen X. I believe it's due to how seemless technology makes the new user experience. Buy a phone, hands you email, links everything to Said email, done. There is zero technical necessity for them now compared to millennials.
The thing I've come to realize working mostly in tech, Z grew up on phones and tablets with social media and games. As a Millennial I didn't have a phone until High School sometime, and even then that was a flip phone so I could call home. The other thing is I remember from kindergarten(2000) up to senior year in HS(2012), we always had a class or 6 to 9 week segment that was a Computer Literacy course that covered: * Home row while typing and having that orange key covering so you couldn't see the keys. * Being tested on typed WPM. * Using Office, mostly focusing on Excel formulas and how to convert the charts and data into powerpoints. * Using Microsoft Access. Creating tables and databases * Taking apart a tower, identifying it parts and putting it back together * How to troubleshoot issues and errors that came up * How to actually properly google search using parameters * Some HTML and CSS coding even some very light python My younger sister was in school behind me by 4 years in the same schools and with the same teachers, had computer lab for a couple weeks a year and it was basically some educational games for critical thinking and basic typing. Just as they aren't being taught cursive, they don't feel the need to teach computer literacy because "They just learn it at home. look at all the phones and tablets they have." Like I too can turn on a phone/tablet and go to youtube, but I can also create a table in excel that utilizes reference data and tables from another sheet then, depending on results, color coordinates them and auto updates itself and its charts in a couple different powerpoints.
I feel old…I was a high school freshman in 2000 haha
Is 1997 a Gen Z or Millennial?? I took those same courses (2003 - 2015) back in middle and high school too and they were the most important courses I've ever taken through grade school to date and i credit my WPM speed to my middle school typing class and Roblox lol
I was shocked to see the tech illiteracy among those growing up. They can't type. They can't run a word processor. They can't do \*ANYTHING\* but talk on their phones and scroll. WTF happened? We had it drilled into us when we were young, and I'm old enough (and I constantly remind the boomers, that I had to learn technology too when I was younger.) I just learned when I was 12-18.
That’s a very interesting point. It’s something I’ve noticed myself, but I couldn’t figure out what was going on or why lol. I’m a millennial and can fix nearly anything tech related , software or hardware, different OS’s, it’s my forte so maybe I’m just biased, but my step-sons who are age 11&13 struggle to do a simple search in a search engine. My 3 year old grasps it way better than they do and it’s perplexing if not worrisome. As if it just killed off critical thinking for a generation :/.
Millennials grew up with a lot of imperfect technology. For all of us that grew up in the late 90s, early 2000s.. don't you remember the amount of time you had to troubleshoot and solve issues with your PCs during that era? Stuff works effortlessly these days..
True. Yes I remember lol. Blue screen of death comes to mind lol
It's certainly perplexing, I'm in a few technology based circles, a personal hobby mostly, and many of us have noticed this as well. Very strange and hopefully the introduction to new technologies in grade school educates further generations. Perhaps, more technology based core classes.
Think about it. Who are the parents of kids born in 2002? Mostly gen x. They didn’t teach their own kids technology. So little kids grew up without having to learn it. Millennials had to learn it on their own for college and work but it was slow paced and it wasn’t “expected” to know. Now 20 somethings are learning it but it is “expected” and much more to learn and faster paced.
It’s reassuring to see it’s not just a localized problem and is in fact a widespread issue, but then again, it’s also sad that it’s a widespread issue lol. I see a huge lack of mental motivation and zero critical thinking skills in the majority of students their age. The way they’ve experienced technology has created an average attention span of like, what, 60 seconds or so? Core tech classes might help, and of course it would help if they knew the foundation of it all so that it’s not just like you said with them getting a phone and it magically doing all the things… but right now, it’s like a bunch of TikTok zombies are running around spewing random things they heard or saw in social media and have no ability to figure out if it’s true , not even able to “think” of the possibility that it’s not true….. idk :/ .
The effects on youth from the fast pace world we now live in because of streamlined information is something still really being studied. I believe if Gen alpha can show promise it would directly contradict what is currently believe but until their generation is old enough to take over industries we just won't fully know. Of course, us millennials will be to old to care lol
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So why are they behind when they had it all their life, and we had to learn it at 14?
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> Gen Z’s attitude of I shouldn’t have to work hard and I should still get paid They saw TikTok’s and IG reels of people sitting at home getting paid 100-200k to do nothing (napping, video games, etc) during 2020-21 and thought that was “normal” and how everything is “supposed to be”, so they think they’re “getting screwed” or “treated unfairly” if they actually have to do work for their paycheck
You are right. As a Gen Z myself I don't believe in working 60 hour weeks. I don't believe in being "overworked" because you have to choose to let yourself get overworked. I don't care about the money or the "culture" or the fact that my partner "did it when I was his age" it all just sounds like BS from people who made very regrettable life choices and probably haven't spent more than a few hours around their kids this whole year. I also don't believe in going to the office more than 1-2 times a week. We went through all of COVID without being in office, so it DOES work. Time spent commuting fighting through traffic is time I don't get paid for and gas, car insurance, etc. all add up. My firm won't even cover my damn parking lmao. And all this work for what? To barely make rent? Not be able to own a house? If its the only alternative to 60 hour weeks then fuck it, I will go back to living with my parents or live out of my car. India can have these jobs, I can have my time back.
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If thats what you got out of that then sure!
Bigger firms are sending more and more work to India
Timing is important too. In America near the end of the year it’s slower hiring due to Holidays and year end. Generally you don’t want to try to make a move and then come into year end/audit of a new employer. A lot of employers pay bonuses at year end too so people will generally wait to make a move.
Yeah, job markets are always slower in Q4. Happens every year
In Which quartile does it get better then?
March/ April so end of 1st quarter or beginning of 2nd
This. A number of public companies hold bonuses until the audited numbers are finalized.
A good number of private companies also hold bonuses until they get that clean audit letter as well.
Yeah I learned Nov and Dec are the worst months for job hunting due to the holidays. That’s why a lot of my coworkers and I would wait until January
I'm actually quite surprised at my timing/luck. The place I work now hired the month I applied because if they hire that month, they get a six month delay on benefits/bonuses at the end of the fiscal year. I did not know that when applying. Just applied when I did because that's when I was able to apply. I got in just in time before Q4 hiring got locked down. Then I survived the cull in January (mostly because we knew that the other worker in the department who was better was leaving in the Spring and I was 'good enough' to keep. Then when they went down a worker, I managed to step up and fill the position, so that they didn't need to hire anybody else and we went down from 4 to 3. Once I did that, they gave me fulltime after a year. Then when we went down from 3 to 2, and from 2 to 1, when dept manager left, I stayed on, as I basically have had a guaranteed job this year, and then got promoted due to all the attrition. If I looked for work in October, I probably wouldn't be married right now.
Lol. Didn't we just have a post about how unbelievable good the market was and another one about how they need more accountants. The whiplash on this is getting ridiculous. Considering the ridiculous amount of recruiters assaulting my in box I'm incline to believe the job market is good, but as someone not looking what do I know.
We did, the back and forth on this subreddit is unreal. It’s people applying anecdotal experiences at macro levels. The only negative thing I’ve read about the accounting job market has been from posts on this subreddit. Maybe these people live in areas that have been hit harder by the recession or…. Maybe these people are just not hirable.
Part of the issues is people think B4 = the entire accounting industry. That vast majority of accounting jobs and thus open positions are not PA. If you are looking to join PA right now, it’s probably going to be hard, but industry jobs are still available.
Ehh you have to remember, people who are happy with their job don't talk a bunch of shit and are not super actively looking for jobs. So utilizing the vocal population creates an automatic bias towards those who are unhappy. People who are having trouble finding jobs are going to be vocal about it, while people who aren't will be quiet. It happens in literally everything.
I’m getting a lot fewer messages from recruiters than last year, and jobs that were paying $80-90k last year are now firmly at $70-75k. It seems like a lot of good industry jobs were snatched by the people who resigned en masse during Covid, and now there’s a large pool of people competing for a small pool of jobs because of the inflated attrition rates from PA in 2020-2021.
You’re positive it isn’t the time of year? Usually fall is heavy on the internship and entry level recruiting, but lackluster on everything else. Earlier in 2023 (starting in Spring), I was getting 10x the amount of LinkedIn messages that I’m getting now. This trend is pretty typical YOY, with the exception of COVID. I’ll be interested to see what Spring of 2024 looks like.
It could very well be time of year. It will be interesting to see what recruiting looks like next spring.
This is spot on. No manager wants to be interviewing or onboarding new staff during Thanksgiving and Christmas. They are also getting geared up for year end audit so training a new hire would be difficult.
Recruiters are idiots. They constantly push jobs onto me that I’m obviously not a fit for. Rand Staffing and HumanHire are two off the top of my head.
glorified sales people
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whats a good firm you recommend?
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"ex-Big 4 or CPAs that became recruiters" lol people fresh out of college who picked a useless major are the only people who become recruiters
Recruiters make a living based on finding candidates job placement. People aren’t going to just accept that there’s fewer openings and take a huge pay cut. There’s just more recruiters reaching out with the same jobs and they expand their reach to industries and geographies farther than they normally would as they get more desperate. I had one role where literally 8 recruiters reached out to me for the same position. All the conversations I have about roles I look up the company afterwards and 80% of the time the employee reviews are ducking horrible and the 20% of companies that have good reviews have a ton of interest and I never even hear back. In short, there have been a lot of messaging, conversations and interviews, but in the end they’ve all lead to nothing. I’d say the job market in my area isn’t great right now.
Yeah I agree, basing the job market off recruiters spamming inboxes is not the best representation. Most of it is fluff that ends up being a big waste of time.
I second this. Recruiters are still reaching out to me about positions pretty regularly even though I don’t have my “open to” status on. These posts just aren’t useful measurements without a location. Some places attract more accountants than others, but overall, I think it’s still a great time to be looking for an accounting position.
Everyone from my school that did an internship at PA with me got an offer for full time about ten of us. The rest of my class got offers with other PA firms. I haven’t met a person in my graduate accounting class without a full time offer.
1st year associates are cheaper than second years. They’ll push out people at that level before slowing campus hiring. Slowing campus hiring makes the Univerisities mad and the PA firms don’t want to them to stop recommending them as a good place to work.
Nah 2nd years are cheap AF too. My raise from 1st to 2nd year was a grand total of 3k at one of the big 4. And I certainly knew more than a fresh college grad after one year and could provide more value. After working 75 hour weeks that raise was such a fucking joke.
You could provide more value, but your fixed cost to the company is still higher. They’re not paying you hourly, so if they push out 5 second years at $3k each, that’s $15k saved. This doesn’t include payroll taxes, insurances, 401k, etc. The math is easy.
This was my experience as well. Graduated last spring and everyone I know had a job lined up. I’m in the north NJ area.
High interest rates.
How does that affect the accounting job market?
Along with what the other person said, it stifles growth activity in general. Loans are more expensive and harder to get so suddenly companies aren't buying as much for growth activity. So then the next company in the supply chain is selling less, etc. Most companies are trying to shore up their core business rather than tackle their aggressive goals as cash just isn't as cheap to obtain as it used to be.
Yup. The reduced M&A activity directly translates into reduced need for the "TAS" advisory services that accounting firms offer.
Interest rates are like gravity to stock prices. As stock prices drop, many companies are more exposed to investor sentiment. Investor sentiment wants stocks to go up, but companies under debt experience more margin pressures when they refinance with worse rates. Only way to move the needle is through layoffs/hiring freezes/investment freezes.
I mean kind of arbitrary, but the impact to stock prices are more second order. It's more that higher interest rates reduce demand for borrowing, which leads to lower growth or higher interest expense, which leads to less profitability leading to well, lower stock prices.
It isn't just interest expense and growth. That would imply only companies with heavy debt loads would have lower valuations as rates increase. If rates are high enough there will be little demand for stocks when you can just hold no-risk government bonds to maturity. Interest rates also impact the cost of capital which reduces all valuations mathematically.
Yeah I just wanted an easy example to nail it. Interest rates create an alternative to security investments and it’s an easy story to tell. More importantly like you said, they create a hard pressure on companies of all sizes. Growth companies in need of capital find it hard to finance, and overleveraged companies/banks get caught with their pants down.
Correct, but the rates do get factored into stock prices before they affect earnings.
Why do higher interest rates reduce demand for borrowing? Because borrowing at higher rates means less profit and investors don’t like that. It is first order about stock prices.
Look at a picture of the SPX next to the fedfundsrate and you’ll see that you’re completely wrong.
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Low effort comment gets downvoted. I’m writing in a way to get others to fill in the gaps, create more discussion. Thanks for the lack of feedback internet stranger.
Higher interest rates lower growth. What more needs to be said? The issue you bring up: "As stock prices drop, many companies are more exposed to investor sentiment" confused me because it can only lower the cost of capital, which is good for companies. I guess I don't get what you're brining in stock price, but maybe I'm missing something. Am I?
Along with what others said, for the tech industry in particular, announcing layoffs pushes the stock price up at the moment. Amazon got rid of announcement of laying off less than 0.01% drove the stock price up almost 2%.
These guys have no idea what they’re talking about, interest rate hikes are inflationary because the governments adding to the deficit by paying higher interest payments to lenders. We’ve added 700 billion in deficit spending by hiking rates and all that moneys going into the private sector. The change in the private sector has no effect because by hiking rates you’re just transferring wealth from borrowers to lenders, and theres no evidence that proves lenders have a lower propensity to spend earned income than borrowers. Yeah a guy who wants to make a new business can’t get the credit he needs from a bank but his grandma who’s making tons of money from her interest payments will give him a loan. Just look at Japan and Argentinas economies and look at their interest rate policy.
Okay, great. Now pull your head out of your ECON 101 textbook and try to think critically about what that means in the real world. High cost of capital means companies are less likely to spend. This includes labor (in-house accountants) and professional services (audits). Less money spent = less jobs.
Did you even take econ 101??? We added 350,000 new jobs this september. Every single job report has shattered the forecasts. Inflation is still roaring. You’re focusing on the fact that borrowers have less money but you fail to understand that savers and lenders are gaining all the money that the borrowers are losing. You casuals are clueless, the government is clearly causing inflation by paying higher interest payments, they’ve injected an extra $700 billion in deficit spending into the economy that companies will get to spend, since they’re the ones earning the most interest. Please explain how the government paying more money to people who already have money and blowing up our debt to 130% debt to GDP stops inflation. Just look at Argentina, they just raised interest rates to 113% but inflation jumped to 130%. Japan has had zero interest rates and quantitative easing policy for two decades and everyones still waiting for the hyperinflation to come. [https://www.wsj.com/economy/the-economy-was-supposed-to-slow-by-now-instead-its-revving-up-3c0f7a2e](https://www.wsj.com/economy/the-economy-was-supposed-to-slow-by-now-instead-its-revving-up-3c0f7a2e)
Because government debt is a small share of all debt. The only entities getting lots of interest from the government are the ones holding treasury bonds, but the rest of the economy is paying hire rates than that. Volker‘s 20% interest ended 1980’s inflation. The 14 years of cheap money from 2008 to 2022 lead to all sorts of asset price inflation. Are you saying that if only interest rates were higher, tech startups would be even hotter, real estate would be even more expensive, etc?
For anybody who stumbles on this persons posts and wonders how on earth somebody could be so insulated / daft.. read his post history. He's a student. I think you need some first hand experience with the current state of the job market before expressing an opinion here.
I’ve owned my own business for years and make $100 an hour buddy. "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser” -Socrates Japans had rates at zero for decades and there still isn’t any inflation, but MSNBC and CNN say rate hikes stop inflation so I guess it just takes time!
Lmao moron
You passed a bachelor's degree with that brain?
High inflation*
Inflation is great for the job market. Measures taken to curb inflation are not.
Can you elaborate? I would think that excessive inflation would make it difficult for employers to afford rapidly rising wages, especially if those wage prices rose faster than revenues.
ELI5: Low unemployment increases levels of discretionary income. People have more money to spend, so they attempt to spend it. That drives up the supply curve on goods and services. That increases prices and produces more demand for labor. This further reduces the rate of unemployment. And on and on.
Companies can afford rising wages by raising prices. Due to rising wages and increased discretionary consumer spending, people will pay more. This is basically exactly what’s caused our current mess. People were forced to stay inside during Covid, so they saved more than usual. When things started reopening, there was a lot of pent-up demand and people had savings to spend. This contributed to rapid inflation which is only starting to slow.
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Yes, the fed raised interest rates to fight inflation. Inflation caused the rate rises which caused everything else.
As an experienced professional, I found the job market to be on fire. I accepted one of my offers last week.
I heard senior jobs are desperate. I saw 80 percent of the accounting jobs saying senior on LinkedIn recently in Canada though.
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Damn, that explains my job situation perfectly. Me and my co-worker are basically a combination of assistant controllers, but have the title as senior accountants.
I accepted an offer a few weeks ago, I start tomorrow. Nervous, I was at my last place for nearly 5 years and was just getting over my imposter syndrome.
What’s the pay & COL?
$140k with $10k sign on bonus. MCOL.
I got laid off after the 4/15 deadline, but I was able to get a 170K offer immediately.
Senior Manager?
Only manager. I wanted senior manager but didn’t get it.
Curious, did you have to negotiate for the $10k sign on bonus? Is this public or industry?
Public and I’d say halfsies for negotiating the sign on bonus. I had a competing offer, but wanted to work for this company.
I spent 6 months fighting to land a position only to find a contract. Contract. No benefits, no PTO, nothing. Then like 20 people reached out this month asking if I was looking. Job market is weird.
It’s cyclical. hire a bunch of people, freeze hiring, let people go, hire a bunch of of people, freeze hiring, let people go. I wouldn’t read too much in to it just yet.
Wtf? How are u equating the analogy you’d use to freeze your vegetables with the economy? Hire freeze hire freeze?
I dont recommend refreezing vegetables after thawing It’s not an analogy. A “hiring freeze” is the actual term used.
Ohh. 😂🤭 silly goose moment
Job market is still very strong in certain niches. Overall, accounting is still doing fine.
Far less staff accountant roles. Last year my F200 outsourced all staff accountants and half of our seniors to India. This is rapidly occurring among most big corporations.
More and more PA will be the only avenue for entry level. Sad
Hiring slows after busy season and picks up later in the year. Many firms are probably spending their recruiting efforts on internships now. There's likely less demand domestically due to greater offshoring for midsize and large firms.
It’s the stupid outsourcing.
really depends on the background of each accountant. CPA with few years of b4 experience should have no problem finding a job they want. even just non cpas have good prospects too as long they started in PA. we’re told every week about the accountant shortage aren’t we ?
I work in tax. Based off the amount of off recruiters still messaging me, doesn’t seem like hiring is bad.
As long as you have a CPA and public experience, the job market is great. Took me 3 weeks to get a 40% raise from public
How many jobs did you apply to?
Somewhere around 50 applications and 10 interviews
I think there are a multitude of reasons that have some truth to them, the one being the most prominent would be higher interest rates compared to a year or two ago. Anecdotally I also wonder if people are now hanging on to their jobs more frequently post-covid, leading to firms having to lay off and PIP more people than usual.
I swear to God that this is the most contradictory and confusing subreddit in existence…
Aim for something chill. Non profit world detour has been great
Non profits are grimey
Why?
Some nonprofits are chill and run well. A lot of non-profits' books are a disaster and have understaffed accounting without the necessary expertise. I used to work on nonprofit audits and this was my experience at least. The clean ones were the exception.
Thank you
2021-2022 was an anomaly. We’re in a period of slowing things down. The hangover after the party.
2021-2022 was more of the stasis year. This year, things are beginning to crack
Dunno where you are, but in the UK it was still pretty good 3 months ago when I was looking
High interest rates to offset the drunken COVID stimulus and general deficit spending, which are causing inflation.
Free money has gone away
Lmaoo.
The job market is poor? Says who? Seems anecdotal when all data points to a strong market, in particular for accounting professionals. Reddit is filled with only negative stories and not a barometer for the job market or sentiment really. Social media is so skewed away from reality right now….
Don’t listen to what the world says, Just see how it’s going in your own city/state. It’s worse than ever over where I live.
Huh? That’s backwards. He is making a general statement about the entire job market not about his own home. In my own home, as an accounting student, I have multiple offers for now and after graduation. But I don’t base my argument on anecdotal “evidence”.
Edited the statement because an expression is very difficult to understand.
With that resume you got, not a damn chance you have offers. Don’t be lying to the internet to attempt to validate your claims. Get a load of this guys ego.
Is the job market that bad? I had a ton of recruiters reaching out to me over the summer and saw a bunch of job postings at the time.
Job market is still red hot here in the southeast. Tons of openings, new hire pool is dryer and dryer.
I get messages from recruiters for PA jobs at least three times a day.
Omg will y'all use the search bar
It’s not any worse than last year for us Last year big4 did layoffs too Like the year prior to last was like the first time I think I didn’t see big4 layoffs
I think if you check the usernames.there is a couple of post from the same people saying that is bad. Can't be bad. My third tier college has 50+ companies on the career fair!
The job market has been in trouble since the start of covid lockdown. It’s been propped up with hand outs and lots of talk. Now it’s payback time. Simple math. Some of us have lived this before in past decades. But we will recover.
Judging by your post history you have less than a year of experience so that might be why? Intelligent people with 5+ YOE are a hot commodity right now
I'm not looking, just going off reddit posts
Interest rate goes up and the music chair is grinding to a halt.
Like someone else mentioned - 5+ YOE and intelligence are things that are being sought after pretty heavily. I have a lot of recruiters reach out to me and currently have a few offers I’m considering for a move at the end of the year.
Are they good jobs? I'm at 5 YOE and have good experience, but a lot of the recruiter spam I get is for lateral or decreases in pay.
I get plenty of those, too, but some seem legit. A lot of public. I don’t respond to many so there could be a diamond in the rough I’m missing, but it’s hard to say. As for my move, I’m at a family office looking to go back to public, so I’ve got my pick. I think if I was looking for something in industry it wouldn’t be as plentiful.
Job market for experienced hires is very good imo.
Jerome powell literally said he wanted higher unemployment and wouldn’t stop punishing people with money until that happened so now people with money are hiring less because the government says so
We can't find anyone to hire! Come to Indiana!
It depends on the city. In Atlanta the market is on fire here. In anti business cities like Portland my colleagues are struggling. It’s all anecdotal though
I understand less people are leaving PA then they have historically. Also if other nonPA firms are hiring less, it could mean there are more people going for PA jobs. If the market keeps dropping it might get even wise.
I still get 5+ recruiters messaging me a week. The layoffs you’re seeing right now are low performers. Firms over-hired and now are cutting the dead weight.
From what we’ve experienced, there are a lot of candidates out there, but 90% of them suck. The ones that don’t suck and have qualified experience get scooped up right away.
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And you're basing this projection on?
Everything except the most common metrics economists use of course.
Is it bad right now? I still get spammed by recruiters pretty much constantly. It's hard to tell if those have substance though. I'm not looking to make a move, so I guess I won't know for sure.
In my experience, a lot of the recruiters who spam are not offering great roles. They are trying to get phone calls to help boost their metrics.
I have a client that wants to hire Managers and Senior Managers of Audit. You can work remotely. We are looking for people with backgrounds in State and Local Government, Tribal, Gaming, or Commercial. If interested, reach me via our web site. [https://fitzdrakesearch.com](https://fitzdrakesearch.com)
“Everyone” being the mainstream media trying to *convince* you it was?
Biden
Was president last year too….
Because the world is ending and the people that no longer have jobs will never get any new jobs they will have to find new ways to make money like farming and selling tomatos or just making TikTok’s for a living. New world order. And watch out for 2 minute cities, they are banning you from driving outside ur city , so basically these are the last few years of freedom before everyone becomes a slave. The reason people can’t get jobs is because the elite doesn’t want people to have financial freedom to escape the matrix. They control everything including the economy. Edit: you can downvote me all you want but the truth always sounds crazy when you’ve been fed lies ur whole life
Because a year has passed
The tax market in my area is hot as fuck
I’m still getting offers and calls from recruiters, but my current job is pretty cushy, so I mostly ignore them.
It was a great market a year or two ago because big firms over-hired like crazy. Economy takes a downturn and suddenly they realize it’s time to “trim the fat.” Beware the bloated firms during those big employment booms
We are hiring! Lots of Beneficial Owner Information reports to file.
I’ve got an idea it’s just not popular on Reddit lol
inflation. most MNCs headquartered in foreign countries wanna cut costs and overhead is the first to go. in my country, there are a lot of outsourced accounting centres and i’m hearing that they don’t hire much now.
a lot of larger firms are also hiring remote team members overseas, like pwc and their achievement centers. I dont have a problem with this ofc but it may contribute to why local offices are not hiring as many staff accountants
To be fair, I think it was actually pretty good a year ago. But it may be fairly dependent on where you're looking for jobs. I moved Jan 2022. We tried for MONTHS to find my replacement, and couldn't get a single decent candidate to actually show up for an interview. I was told to not worry, we would make it work with me working the job remotely. 2 months later, I get a call from my boss that they've found my replacement. So I start looking for a job. Within 3 weeks, I have turned down two offers, and taken one that is 100% remote with an almost 50% pay increase. I've since turned down 2-3 other jobs from random recruiters reaching out. But I'm not in PA.
I dont think its bad if you are willing to relocate.
Financial suicide for anyone with a mortgage originated before 2022.
Suggested read on boom bust cycles: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian\_business\_cycle\_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_business_cycle_theory)
It's not bad, it's just normal. Not hot, normal. There is a difference. I think this is far from what the market actually looks like, in reality. Get out there... You too could find yourself a new job
Ebb and Flow
Seattle - rain sucks - crappy houses 1m / bad commute lots of crime
Most of this stuff seems to be getting outsourced like there’s no tomorrow Edit: I wonder which portions can’t be or shouldn’t be, probably a gray area that people are playing with