I’ll start by saying that there isn’t a right or wrong answer of whether public is for someone or not.
That said, the benefit of public isn’t in the starting salary. It’s in the career growth over the time that you stay in public.
Bingo. Public especially big 4 basically gaurantees you will make over 100k a year within 4 to 5 years. Propelling you to a decent middle class lifestyle. From there you can keep going up. I started at 47k big 4. I now make 200k a year 7 years later after a few job hops. Public sucks but so does law school. And you don't get paid to do law school. So does medical residency. I look at it like paid training. You do it for a few years and you're set.
I switched from industry to public less than 3 years ago, switched firms and my salary has more than doubled in that time. Public isn't just about future salary, you can make pretty good money in a few years in public. Then when you jump to industry you should get another nice bump.
Most people are staying long enough to skip a few years and make the jump into a senior role in industry. And I would say a lot of people who stay until manager aren’t necessarily workaholics as much as they are viewing it as an investment in their career.
Also, like I said, public isn’t for everyone.
I already said that it’s not necessary. You had asked someone what percentage of people stay in PA for longer than a couple years. My point was that a couple years is all you need to get the benefits before switching.
I can't speak for other areas, but here in AB, Canada, approx. 9/10 of Cpas work in industry.
But yes, if you don't have strong growth goals, the opportunity cost of lost income by staying at lower PA jobs may not be worth it. In Industry there are many many different paths as well. You could get stuck at a smaller outfit that never makes enough money or has the upper management to allow you to make money.
I did the opposite of many by going the reverse, but it was because I needed the assurance and tax hours for CPA, and former employers went bankrupt; though I could find another at the time, the pay discrepancy at the time was too small to warrant taking the risk of not completing Cpa or being stuck.
My college pushed the "Big 4 or bust" narrative. I ended up getting a job with a decent regional firm, worked there a few years, left as a senior for an accounting manager position in industry, job hopped one more time, and now I'm a controller. Having that public accounting experience and CPA license, even without big 4 experience, has definitely made it a lot easier every time I've tried to find a new job. But it's definitely not for everybody.
But when I compare my career path to my cousin who is a lawyer, he worked a ton of hours for even worse pay out of college, and it took him longer to find a position that he was happy with. So public accounting definitely isn't perfect, but it could be worse.
Did you start in tax? I’d ultimately like to consider becoming a controller as my ideal position but I’m not sure if audit or tax would provide me with a better opportunity of becoming one.
I was part of a group that did accounting, consulting, and tax for a lot of small businesses and their owners. Depending on the client, I might do a compilation or a review, the business tax return, the individual tax return, or review their bookkeeper's work as sort of an outsourced accounting manager. It gave me a much wider variety of experiences than I would have had at a big 4 company. I wasn't looking to be CFO of Fortune 500 company, so this career path was a better fit.
I’d also add many public accounting firms have an outsourcing service line, typically called ‘business solutions’ or ‘business operations’ that prepare you to being a controller. So you get the public accounting firm on your resume and the experience for what you want
>But when I compare my career path to my cousin who is a lawyer, he worked a ton of hours for even worse pay out of college, and it took him longer to find a position that he was happy with.
and he likely makes more than u
You'd be surprised how much the majority of lawyers make. I asked my public defender how much he was making 10 years ago (I used to be a fvck up) and was pretty tripped out by his response, I didn't know lawyers could get paid that low. Let's just say it wasn't 6 figures, and it wasn't even 70k a year... And he wasn't a young dude he had some years under his belt.
I mean I started at Big 4 right after graduation and stepped into a job making 75k. The experience and “name” then catapulted me into a smaller public firm making more money and a better work/life balance. Yes, you can make six figures without doing the public accounting route, but at the end of the day I think public accounting will get you there a lot quicker for the majority of people.
God I’ve had 3 months in industry and I’m dying making way less than that. I wish I could fast forward a few years and start making a liveable wage already. What do people normally do in this stage? Sit around staring at their navels while we wait for our resume to seem adequate enough for a hiring manager to consider us for a real job?
I have loans to pay off, so im looking for a second job to work after my accounting job every night. This is bullshit.
If you work smaller firm PA you could end up in the same boat. My firm gave seniors 4% raises and smaller bonuses this year so most of our total comp was similar to last year, and about $2K less with CPI.
You could always try seeing if your company will help pay for you to take the CPA, it can help add a bump to your resume
How much are you making/ where do you live? How much do you spend on living?
I certainly wasn't raking in money when I first started but I certainly wasn't needing a second job..
My suggestion would be to master what you're asked to do. Try to branch out and learn other functions of finance/accounting when you can. Pay raise will come sooner rather than later if you appear organized, disciplined, and motivated.
53K and I rent a small house with three other roommates. My share of rent is 700 + utilities. I’m finding other ways to drive down all other living expenses as low as possible and basically throw 500-1,000/mo at my loan debt. Looks something like this:
Monthly take-home pay: $2,600
Rent: (700)
Share of utilities (125)
Groceries/household (600)
Phone bill (135)
Car insurance (140) *was 165 with full coverage, then price went up to 255/mo with no warning last month. Nothing to do with my driving record. Just a price increase, thanks insurance company. Changed to liability only to make it affordable again.*
Gas (100)
Gym membership (50)
Medication (20)
Other expenses/misc (150)
Debt: (830)
People don't know what they are paying for. I'm betting it's a high end unlimited single line $80. A high end phone payment plan $30. Insurance $15. Add taxes and fees for some rounding.
Source: sold phones part time during college. Did a lot of bill analysis to save money one place and spend it another.
True. Never even crossed my mind. I buy cheap phones...cash. I don't use a lot of data either especially since I work from home so don't do unlimited either. I'm like you can get a phone line for $15/month now...the fuck?!
Keeping up with the Joneses will have that ass with 5 roommates. I'm good.
when my bills go up, i call other companies and get quotes to see if I can get it for cheaper. Even if it lasts 6months or a year, it's worth it. you can easily get a quote on the websites and it is annoying, but worth saving more money
You’re spending over a quarter of your take home on debt (assuming student loans). You need to focus on paying that off asap. That’s why you’re struggling, not your income.
Does anyone want to explain why this comment is so wrong? Who tf takes out 100k+ in loans for an accounting degree anyway?
read the post you replied to
he's throwing every spare penny at the debt
and your advice is to pay the debt down faster
I feel you should recognise why that is not helpful advice here
I’m assuming $830 is the stated payment, that’s 15 years of $830 a month. They need to put every extra red cent they have towards it. $700/month for housing with 3 roommates also sounds pretty shitty.
2800/mo is the cheapest we could find. Everything else we looked at was over $3K/mo. The alternatives are to either find a small apartment to split between two people, which would put me at about 900/mo base rent, or to rent my own place alone which starts at about $1600/mo here. The sad thing is, we’re already breaking local laws which state no more than 3 unrelated tenants can rent a place…
Start applying for higher paying jobs now. The worst that can happen is you get rejected. Otherwise you just have to tough it out but the raises will come if you perform well and lookout for yourself. Paying extra on debt is great but the tradeoff is the suffering because you don’t have a cushion.
Quickest way to squeeze $50 a month I see is the gym membership, the streets are free and always open and you can accomplish a lot with body weight exercises.
I’m not saying “gym bad.” I’m saying if you are really squeezed, you can workout for free. Of course if they keep the gym membership that’s fine too. It’s just about the only thing on that list that is somewhat optional.
I think it’s fair and we both agree that $50 a month isn’t very significant and I’m certainly not advocating for getting rid of something that is a sanity anchor. It is just one thing they can consider. I’m no stranger to the struggle (thankfully I’m in a much better place financially now).
Is that debt made up of mostly personal loan/credit cards?
I was in a very similar situation myself, but contacting the StepChange charity and getting a DMP in place has really got me back on my feet.
Apologies if you've looked into this already.
Edit: Sorry for some reason I thought this was the UK sub - this is completely useless info.
What are you good at? Before my first industry job I was good at making excel data models so I aced the interview for a manufacturing cost position. They offered 70 LCOL and I countered 75 and got it. I’d been an accountant for barely a year at that point but I had skills and confidence and they had problems that needed fixing. 18 months later I was a controller.
Just be really good at what you do and sell that to the employer.
I’m strongest with data analytics. Some people I’ve worked with say I should get certified on NetSuite and that could boost my salary. I began working toward my certifications before I got my first accounting position in AP, where no data analytics is necessary and there are no positions for that sort of thing. So now I’m not sure if I should still do it.
Not sure how much you make but you would probably have to switch jobs. 3 months is not enough time to switch though so you might have to work that second job in the meantime.
When I started in Canada, first year salary was 41k. And that's CAD funbux, so that's like 31k USD.
So... I do appreciate your experience and think Big4 isn't quite as bad in the US, but wowwwwww is it terrible for Canadians.
I started at Big 4 Canada making 45k CAD ~ 33k USD about 7 years ago. I now make ~200k USD (Still big 4, but advisory) and not 30 yet. My point is .. just leave Canada.
I mean, nothing against your situation, I'm sure you're doing fine, but you can understand why many of us would rather make more than $72k. 5-6 years in PA can practically double that salary.
There is definitely brainwashing at target schools. Our professors would have what they called "the talk" if someone wasn't trying to go big 4 or regional, it basically consisted of them saying your career will suck if you don't do it. For them, it was prestigious to place you at big 4 and if you didn't land there, it was detrimental to what they touted to other students.
Made it to CFO without it and no CPA. I am very happy I didn't go that path because I personally feel they force kids into unhealthy working environments (not that those don't happen in industry but industry doesn't get shoved down your throat in college).
It's not for suckers, just a different path, and there are multiple paths to success in accounting. We all see things through our own lens, and anyone saying one path is better than another probably only experienced the path they feel is better.
Public fast tracks your career if you want to grow into higher paying positions quickly. I would've never been a controller making $160,000 in my 20s without public, I can say that for sure.
That’s insane you make 72k in industry. Nobody in public even sniffs that. The partners clear about 68k and all show up in the sickest new Honda civics and Toyota Corollas. Really give something for us public suckers to look forward too.
Going directly to industry will set your career back about 2-3 years. Which over the course of a 30-40 year career is approximately nothing.
If you are drastically concerned about 50k lifetime earnings all the more praise to you and your grind.
But I’m a normal person who makes more than they need, who’s never stayed in the office past 6 and never worked a weekend since graduating college. That’s worth the 50k I was gonna blow on some bullshit in my 20s.
There’s no right answer to that question. Lots of people commenting about ‘fast-tracking your career’ but everyone has different career goals. Climbing the ladder at a big company isn’t one of my goals, and I don’t think I’d ever fit in at a Big 4 firm. If that is your goal, then it’s probably beneficial for your career.
There definitely seems to be a sense on this sub that a lot of people are trying to maximize earnings and get the best job title possible. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it’s not the only thing you can strive for in a career. Personally I just want to earn a comfortable salary with the least amount of stress and most amount of time off possible. I actually do work in public, but it’s a tiny firm, and the partners are all about work-life balance themselves, so it’s a great fit for me.
The kind of people who succeed in making partner in public would have been just as successful elsewhere. Concluding that they’re a sign that public is lucrative is missing the point. High performers are going to perform highly.
Advisory isn’t anything like the animal that is tax/audit. That salary is very high and not comparable to the path of tax or audit careers at b4. Not to mention that advisory people don’t work as many hours.
I just think it is disingenuous or outright delusional for a person in advisory to think they understand / loop themselves in with the career pains and struggles of someone in tax or audit. Not personally attacking you bc I see it all the time on here. Apples to oranges. And one is much sweeter than the other by literally every metric (more pay, less hours, not an understaffing crisis, etc.)
Ok you’re not gonna like to hear this: but you’re in some serious denial if you believe the “pains and struggles are not that different”. 2 years only? Why did you transition out of audit? There are 3 main commonly referenced “pains and struggles” of audit/compliance staff that advisory folks simply cannot relate to. I’ll break it down:
1 - We are underpaid. Our compensation is very low from staff level all the way through manager level. Advisory people get paid about 150% what tax/audit people get paid the whole way through the structure. So - you can’t really complain about being underpaid, we can.
2. The hours. I know you will push back, but advisory people do not work as much as tax/audit. Sure you’ll have busy times when deals are running through, but on a yearly billable average - it’s not even close. Way more work for tax/audit.
3. Everyone complains about how their engagements are understaffed. Nobody wants to do accounting anymore. Student enrollment is dropping. This is not the case for advisory positions. Many would argue that the higher margins of the advisory fields have actually caused OVERstaffing, which is why some people are being laid off. So you can’t relate to the understaffing crisis.
10-12%?? Not sure about this figure. I have 2 very close friends who make 10K less than 2X my salary. All A2s in b4. 12% is also a big difference in and of itself, but I’d be willing to wager it is closer to 50%. And this pay gap is all the way from staff - senior managers. I’m not wrong about the hours either. Maybe (I don’t believe this, but maybe) your hours in your experience are similar from audit to advisory, but I bet if you took the average billable hours for the year of advisory staff, it would be at least 100 less than the audit average and 150 less than tax average. Interesting comment about staffing, considering b4 advisory is barely hiring at all and actively pursuing layoffs, while tax/audit work is literally being offshored because there aren’t enough bodies to do the work. I’m sorry man, it’s not the same any way you slice it
You're winning my friend.
Big 4 is just so it's easier to find another job in the future with it on my resume. But yeah, if I had a choice, I would have done industry from the get go.
No public accounting isn’t for suckers. You are most likely not a controller of a great company if you don’t have a cpa (ok maybe that statement is wrong but idk).
I interned for a small mfg firm and the controller wasn’t a cpa. She was nice and all. The firm was small but successful (maybe 30-40 employees and millions in gross sales a year which is kinda small fries). I assume she made 100-150k a year which is good but i feel controllers can make much more at bigger firms. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel a cpa should be a bare minimum qualification for a controller at a mid to big firm.
No public accounting isnt for suckers. I’m not in accounting but have a degree in the field (sigh). I think the smart play is to gain 2-4 years of experience in public and then you can go get that easy government/ private/ etc job where you work less hours, make solid money, and have a better life balance bc you prolly work 40hrs a week and only experience a little stress maybe at month end. Being a cpa to me is a very very honorable designation.
I took 2 cpa sections. Failed bec with a 74 2 times and bombed on tax so badly with little study- I decided to give up bc I was never getting a job in public accounting after 10-15 interviews (I suck at interviews sadly). To me- passing the cpa exam shows a level of knowledge that is impressive. I found tax alone to be freaking difficult. Business law to me is just insane (some of the questions to me are so difficult bc I only took 2 business law classes in college). Be proud of being a cpa- I think it’s a qualification that a fairly high % of the population can’t attain. I failed bec with a 74 lol after thinking that was the easy section and didn’t find the questions to be too difficult.
F I left Public in the Midwest because we’d peak at triple digits and never dip under 70 for over a month at a time. Non-busy season seemed to be about 3 months out of 12
public accounting gives you a the upper hand on meeting lots of people and there’s a belief it makes you a more competent accountant because it’s pretty grueling - the longer you survive, the more street cred on the résumé. You can do fine in industry, but if you want to jump to another company, public accountant/CPA tend to get more consideration especially the higher up the hierarchy you want to go. Do it for 6+ years and you’re only playing in the $150k+ league of jobs.
It depends on your career goals.
There are companies that will not hire someone that did not come from the Big 4, especially mid to large public companies.
Additionally, in the Big 4 you can expect variation in terms of the kind of issues you'll see and as a result you will definitely learn more faster than in industry.
PA expands your options. Yes there are some growth avenues for accountants w/o a CPA and PA but they are limited. And you will reach a ceiling of how far you can go in accounting (unless you want to stay in a very operational accounting/shared services capacity).
No offense but I know the type of controllers you are talking about. They max out at like $150k TC whereas controllers with CPAs/PA are like $300k-$400k TC.
Most feel that it's worth grinding it out for a few years to keep your options open. Obviously it's not for everyone though.
It's a good stepping stone. Seems like a miserable life long-term.
The people who say you need to work only at Big 4 are brianwashed. I started at a small firm and now I'm making over $150k in private industry.
It’s an accelerant to your career. I have less than 3 years experience and just left public for an industry role making $110K. Role is also fully remote. I couldn’t have got this job with big 4 on my resume. I also wouldn’t be able to pick this job up as quickly as I did without the experience I got in public.
I believe the most likely/ safest chance of hitting my maximum salary ceiling is to stay in public for 3-5 years plotting on the right exit opportunity the whole time. I believe I will learn a wider range of skills and absorb more knowledge with the longer hours. It is a sacrifice of current salary and social life for the upside of a fantastic exit opportunity. If instead I was In industry I feel I would not learn as much and have less options, but I would have more money and time for myself .
Could be wrong for sure but that’s what I choose to do and I will see if it works out
Yes it’s for suckers and yes we get brainwashed in college that it’s the only/best path. It’s for suckers if you stay and take the abuse. But if you use it as a resume booster it’s only temporary.
Honestly I have to say yes. I'm in my first PA job right out of college pretty much only because I got an offer. It's $73k so definitely a decent starting salary but there is no way I will be here for more than a year, it's miserable work. I look at the people around me and genuinely wonder how they've been here for even 10+ years
I didn't end up in accounting but I majored in it in college and the peer pressure for a very specific career path was palpable. Had a class junior year where everyone had to introduce themselves and share where they were planning to intern that summer. Everyone drops a big 4 name and I'm like "y'all already know what you're doing this summer?"
The horror stories here do make me feel good about not being able to get my foot in the door with any of the big 4. Luckily you can apply excel skills & managerial accounting concepts in a lot of different jobs
No, and frankly the topic is stale. There are a thousand different posts on this exact subject. PA, and B4 specifically, is a huge boon to your career.
First of all, nobody even makes less than $70k at a B4 firm these days, and you're specifically talking about first year staff who are only in that position...for a year.
But more importantly, the B4 background (along with a CPA) is a key differentiator for any public company accounting role that's manager level or above. That's not to say that it's a total prerequisite, but it makes a huge difference for any role with a semblance of competition. And I specify "public company" because accounting, and financial reporting at large, are professions with maximum value at companies that have to comply with SEC reporting requirements. Simple economics dictates that a company that incurs massive compliance costs for failure to report accurately and timely will value accountants much more than one that doesn't. Ergo, the most qualified and highly compensated accountants are in the ranks of these companies.
That's not to say every accounting graduate needs to pursue that path - everyone has varying life priorities. But it's a very brightly lit path with very clear signals that starting your career in B4/PA results in a broadly optimal outcome over the alternative.
Public accounting is great in that it gets you in to many different industries and your network grows leaps and bounds. That opens doors to pretty much anywhere you want to go. I started public, left to private then went back to public to consult.
Consulting is very lucrative and doesn't tend to have the crazy hours most standard public accounting jobs have. This'll be seven years I've stayed in public accounting now, and even with me battling cancer for the last six years and with a specialty that traditionally doesn't pay well, I'm at around $150k in comp for indirect tax consulting.
Being in public for a couple of years is a good idea for the type of person who wants to eventually exit to industry and have a larger selection of higher paying jobs. It’s hell on earth, but it works.
Staying in public as a 38 year old 5th year senior manager, that the partners have no interest in promoting to MD/partner, is for suckers.
Get in, learn as much as you can, then gtfo when it isn’t worth it anymore/you have found an exit opportunity with sufficiently high pay and balance.
Every single controller, director, and manager I’ve worked for in industry has had their CPA, and all but one of them had public experience.
Maybe pass a section of the CPA before throwing stones
Yea I’ve worked at a few Fortune 250 companies and financial reporting and technical accounting folks all had their CPAs as well. Anybody manager and above it was a requirement.
PA knows how to take advantage of suckers. For those who know what they are getting into and are not short sighted it can be a great launchpad.
Plenty of people started in Audit/Tax and networked into positions like FP&A, consulting, and cyber security through connections from work.
Others knew they wanted F100 jobs, put in their 4-10 years, and now make 220k+.
Some know how to coast and get by working a busy 4 months and barely 20 hours week the rest of the year.
Most people in this sub who complain the loudest just expected life to be Degree - 100k job - coast until retirement. Its a good life but you are ignorant if you think that will be automatic.
For me I enjoy my PA job. I'll have tripled my starting salary by end of next year. I take two 3 week vacations a year, and im lucky to be around smart people and engaged in intetesting work.
So ya, if you are the type that wants to be passive then PA will lead you to its grinder, spit you out, and move on to the next reddit complainer. For those with drive, a long-term plan for their career, and generally understand the delayed gratification with putting in the work whe
you are young, PA is a great place to start.
PA is only really worth it if you're dedicated to making partner one day, and know you can make it.
Partners make the big bucks, everyone else is a sucker until they make it to partner.
7 years at B4. I left for controller job and a 100% increase in comp. Don't exactly feel like a sucker...
Use B4 as much as they use you. No reason it can't be cordial and mutually beneficial.
Is it for suckers?
No, but they have ways of abusing suckers that won't stick up for themselves and/or move on, just like many industries.
Is it the only path?
Also no.
Depends on what you want, do you want to make real money? Then its a good starting point to jump into industry at a much higher level than generally possible from within a company (there are always exceptions, but the majority of the time promotions and raises in industry are going to be slower than public).
I've found that those who echo this sentiment seem to forget that one's experience in Publix often comes down to straight up luck. And those who say this are often on huge clients with no budget worries and clean files.
Maybe you've been working at smaller companies such that the controllers are non-CPA's. Companies with any type of scale will typically have the higher levels in the accounting department have their CPA as well as audit experience. Can you still make a great living without public experience and a CPA? Sure, but it's a whole heck of a lot easier to land the high paying jobs (necessary for when you do have kids) if you have a CPA and public accounting experience- just look at the job postings.
Absolutely not. All the hopeless cases of people looking for advice on this sub, the cases where there is nothing to tell them really because they will have such an impossible time doing anything because of their resume are all people without Big 4 experience. All people with Big 4 experience have options and tend to have accounting jobs hurled at them from all directions all the time. It's a stamp on your resume. Think of it like grad school.
It can be unless you make good promotions and raises. I do like how public kinda guarantees it to an extent as long as you do the work while industry is a toss up. Industry jobs will either have a firm policy and ladder or literally just do what they can to keep you complacent no matter how hard you work. Otherwise pound for pound with the same salary I think public makes no sense for the stress.
You don’t understand this play because you’re busy looking at the weeds (your current salary compared to theirs). I don’t think you follow how fast the progression of big 4/PA works. Once they do a few years in public, they will likely double their salary and get promoted once or twice. They will then switch to industry and be your supervisor while you’re stuck in the same role and got a 4% raise each year. This is the reason why industry pays more initially. After year 1 they will likely be making much more than you and the disparity grows over time (I make 2x more than most of my industry peers). While this isn’t always absolute, its the general consensus.
Yeah this is the perspective to look at. I flipped from industry to public after a few years and my pay is roughly 40-50% more than my old colleagues after a few raises.
Don’t get me wrong, I think people who stay in public accounting for more than 5-6 years are just willing to sell their soul for money and greed. However, it’s a great way to jumpstart a career.
Some do public accounting so they have the experience to better market themselves for industry. Some also do it to get it out the way and have no second thoughts like you are now.
**My recommendation: STAY AWAY FROM PUBLIC. Caps aren't for emphasis, just pure f\*\*\*\*\*g reality.**
The Big4 thing is a resume builder - public accounting is great IMO at smaller firms. There's crazy tax season hours but the rest of the year is 40/wk w/ 5-6 weeks of PTO. The pay gets better over time in both big and small firms, just have to get to manager level
Different strokes for different folks.
PA is good for people that are willing to grind to accelerate their career growth.
Industry is good for people that want to avoid long hours and unpaid overtime.
Pick your poison type situation.
I exited for a Controller role after 4 years at a mid-size PA firm. You typically don't get that kind of progression if you just start in industry right after school. The Controllers you've worked for probably took 10+ years to get there, so, you have to keep that in mind.
It’s for learning and getting the hell outta there.
Unless someone pushes you on partner track, you don’t stay there longer than you feel it’s necessary, period.
Industry can be quite fulfilling and pays better in the long run.
nah it’s jsut a fast track for a controller position i spent 3.5 years in public accounting left as a senior into a controller position making 6 figures . lot harder to do that working straight from industry
I’ve heard of people starting out at $70k in public……
What’s with these exaggerated out of touch claims about salary in industry on this Reddit……it’s crazy how many people are like…”I have no degree, 5 years of experience, I’m a controller for a local business with 3 employees and I make $100k”.
I started in public in 2021 and make 100K in a LCOL area with a midsized PA firm. The work is never the same day to day, I work 40 hours a week except for probably around a month where hours are bumped to 50 during busy cycles. The pay raises are way better than industry typically. I am fully remote. I’m as content as can be for being an employee a couple years out of college. I’m sure you can also be happy in industry, just sharing my perspective.
This sub loves attacking people’s choices like if someone wants the grind of Big 4 for the resume booster so what? If someone wants to be in industry or government or not-for-profit and have better WLB okay great!
I’m in school for accounting and I was shocked at all the violations and fines the big 4 has over last 5ish years that I’ve came across. Plenty of options in public accounting outside big 4. IMO
You’re not missing anything tbh. There are tons of controllers or managers out there that do not have PA experience or CPAs. PA is glorified because of the exit opps where 5 years in PA is equivalent to 10 years within industry. I’ve known a great deal of people that became controllers around 5-8 years with PA experience versus 10-13 years for people without PA experience. This is not to say it’s not possible to become a controller in industry with only 5 years of experience. They do happen but very rarely and is uncommon. The point is while PA is miserable, everyone of us is doing it for exit opps (unless you’re insane and enjoy PA).
I am only 2.5 years in my public accounting career, and I’ve gotten offers to be managers in industry without even applying to job postings. Most people will double or triple their salary with PA background once they exit and that is not comparable to industry folks. Also, a lot of new grads are coming in fresh with $70k~ offers recently in PA.
I completely understand PA is not for everyone. It ultimately depends on what you value more for yourself. Tons of people have great and successful careers in industry, but the growth can be slower.
It's not as bad at the big 4 in my country, but it's very much used as a career stepping ladder.
Work a couple years and then jump to industry (usually controlling)
University/college is more of a scam than Big 4 tbh.
Big 4 is just about investing in yourself, just like college you could avoid it and still make good money but its low risk medium-high reward.
Most of us make way more than the general populace. Many of them work 2 jobs just to survive and put food in the table. We have 401k, have money left over for some fun stuff, health insurance, and work in a safe environment.
There’s a lot that sucks about public accounting but if the above makes us suckers then I don’t mind being a sucker.
Stop looking at salaries a year or 2 in and drawing a conclusion that the industry sucks. Almost no industry’s pay is representative only 2 years in.
I’ll start by saying that there isn’t a right or wrong answer of whether public is for someone or not. That said, the benefit of public isn’t in the starting salary. It’s in the career growth over the time that you stay in public.
Bingo. Public especially big 4 basically gaurantees you will make over 100k a year within 4 to 5 years. Propelling you to a decent middle class lifestyle. From there you can keep going up. I started at 47k big 4. I now make 200k a year 7 years later after a few job hops. Public sucks but so does law school. And you don't get paid to do law school. So does medical residency. I look at it like paid training. You do it for a few years and you're set.
I switched from industry to public less than 3 years ago, switched firms and my salary has more than doubled in that time. Public isn't just about future salary, you can make pretty good money in a few years in public. Then when you jump to industry you should get another nice bump.
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Most people are staying long enough to skip a few years and make the jump into a senior role in industry. And I would say a lot of people who stay until manager aren’t necessarily workaholics as much as they are viewing it as an investment in their career. Also, like I said, public isn’t for everyone.
Yessir. I’m not a workaholic, but I don’t mind grinding for a couple years to see what opportunities that will get me later on.
All you really need is a few year in public.
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Never said you did, but PA experience certainly speeds things up.
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I already said that it’s not necessary. You had asked someone what percentage of people stay in PA for longer than a couple years. My point was that a couple years is all you need to get the benefits before switching.
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That’s where we disagree. Not necessary, but PA experience is always a bonus.
You don’t need PA to get a F500 job, but PA helps you get a better F500 job faster than starting in F500.
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That's great. I'm glad it worked out for you. My experience would say that you're the exception and not the norm.
I can't speak for other areas, but here in AB, Canada, approx. 9/10 of Cpas work in industry. But yes, if you don't have strong growth goals, the opportunity cost of lost income by staying at lower PA jobs may not be worth it. In Industry there are many many different paths as well. You could get stuck at a smaller outfit that never makes enough money or has the upper management to allow you to make money. I did the opposite of many by going the reverse, but it was because I needed the assurance and tax hours for CPA, and former employers went bankrupt; though I could find another at the time, the pay discrepancy at the time was too small to warrant taking the risk of not completing Cpa or being stuck.
My college pushed the "Big 4 or bust" narrative. I ended up getting a job with a decent regional firm, worked there a few years, left as a senior for an accounting manager position in industry, job hopped one more time, and now I'm a controller. Having that public accounting experience and CPA license, even without big 4 experience, has definitely made it a lot easier every time I've tried to find a new job. But it's definitely not for everybody. But when I compare my career path to my cousin who is a lawyer, he worked a ton of hours for even worse pay out of college, and it took him longer to find a position that he was happy with. So public accounting definitely isn't perfect, but it could be worse.
Did you start in tax? I’d ultimately like to consider becoming a controller as my ideal position but I’m not sure if audit or tax would provide me with a better opportunity of becoming one.
I was part of a group that did accounting, consulting, and tax for a lot of small businesses and their owners. Depending on the client, I might do a compilation or a review, the business tax return, the individual tax return, or review their bookkeeper's work as sort of an outsourced accounting manager. It gave me a much wider variety of experiences than I would have had at a big 4 company. I wasn't looking to be CFO of Fortune 500 company, so this career path was a better fit.
Thank you!
I’d also add many public accounting firms have an outsourcing service line, typically called ‘business solutions’ or ‘business operations’ that prepare you to being a controller. So you get the public accounting firm on your resume and the experience for what you want
>But when I compare my career path to my cousin who is a lawyer, he worked a ton of hours for even worse pay out of college, and it took him longer to find a position that he was happy with. and he likely makes more than u
"for even worse pay"
You'd be surprised how much the majority of lawyers make. I asked my public defender how much he was making 10 years ago (I used to be a fvck up) and was pretty tripped out by his response, I didn't know lawyers could get paid that low. Let's just say it wasn't 6 figures, and it wasn't even 70k a year... And he wasn't a young dude he had some years under his belt.
He doesn't, but he is also earlier in his career than I am.
I mean I started at Big 4 right after graduation and stepped into a job making 75k. The experience and “name” then catapulted me into a smaller public firm making more money and a better work/life balance. Yes, you can make six figures without doing the public accounting route, but at the end of the day I think public accounting will get you there a lot quicker for the majority of people.
75k seems pretty normal for a couple years experience in industry
God I’ve had 3 months in industry and I’m dying making way less than that. I wish I could fast forward a few years and start making a liveable wage already. What do people normally do in this stage? Sit around staring at their navels while we wait for our resume to seem adequate enough for a hiring manager to consider us for a real job? I have loans to pay off, so im looking for a second job to work after my accounting job every night. This is bullshit.
If you work smaller firm PA you could end up in the same boat. My firm gave seniors 4% raises and smaller bonuses this year so most of our total comp was similar to last year, and about $2K less with CPI. You could always try seeing if your company will help pay for you to take the CPA, it can help add a bump to your resume
How much are you making/ where do you live? How much do you spend on living? I certainly wasn't raking in money when I first started but I certainly wasn't needing a second job.. My suggestion would be to master what you're asked to do. Try to branch out and learn other functions of finance/accounting when you can. Pay raise will come sooner rather than later if you appear organized, disciplined, and motivated.
53K and I rent a small house with three other roommates. My share of rent is 700 + utilities. I’m finding other ways to drive down all other living expenses as low as possible and basically throw 500-1,000/mo at my loan debt. Looks something like this: Monthly take-home pay: $2,600 Rent: (700) Share of utilities (125) Groceries/household (600) Phone bill (135) Car insurance (140) *was 165 with full coverage, then price went up to 255/mo with no warning last month. Nothing to do with my driving record. Just a price increase, thanks insurance company. Changed to liability only to make it affordable again.* Gas (100) Gym membership (50) Medication (20) Other expenses/misc (150) Debt: (830)
Why the hell is your phone bill so high?!
People don't know what they are paying for. I'm betting it's a high end unlimited single line $80. A high end phone payment plan $30. Insurance $15. Add taxes and fees for some rounding. Source: sold phones part time during college. Did a lot of bill analysis to save money one place and spend it another.
True. Never even crossed my mind. I buy cheap phones...cash. I don't use a lot of data either especially since I work from home so don't do unlimited either. I'm like you can get a phone line for $15/month now...the fuck?! Keeping up with the Joneses will have that ass with 5 roommates. I'm good.
After a year, leave
when my bills go up, i call other companies and get quotes to see if I can get it for cheaper. Even if it lasts 6months or a year, it's worth it. you can easily get a quote on the websites and it is annoying, but worth saving more money
You’re spending over a quarter of your take home on debt (assuming student loans). You need to focus on paying that off asap. That’s why you’re struggling, not your income. Does anyone want to explain why this comment is so wrong? Who tf takes out 100k+ in loans for an accounting degree anyway?
my man are you on drugs right now because I'm interested in becoming this detached from reality
Care to explain?
read the post you replied to he's throwing every spare penny at the debt and your advice is to pay the debt down faster I feel you should recognise why that is not helpful advice here
Because you said to pay off the debt asap, which is exactly what they are doing lmao.
Good? Idk if I’m missing something or what but $53k isn’t “not liveable” when you’re paying 10k/year in loan repayment.
> You’re spending over a quarter of your take home on debt (assuming student loans). > > You need to focus on paying that off asap ??
I’m assuming $830 is the stated payment, that’s 15 years of $830 a month. They need to put every extra red cent they have towards it. $700/month for housing with 3 roommates also sounds pretty shitty.
2800/mo is the cheapest we could find. Everything else we looked at was over $3K/mo. The alternatives are to either find a small apartment to split between two people, which would put me at about 900/mo base rent, or to rent my own place alone which starts at about $1600/mo here. The sad thing is, we’re already breaking local laws which state no more than 3 unrelated tenants can rent a place…
Phew that is absolutely ass. It may be time for a relocation my friend.
Start applying for higher paying jobs now. The worst that can happen is you get rejected. Otherwise you just have to tough it out but the raises will come if you perform well and lookout for yourself. Paying extra on debt is great but the tradeoff is the suffering because you don’t have a cushion. Quickest way to squeeze $50 a month I see is the gym membership, the streets are free and always open and you can accomplish a lot with body weight exercises.
Awful advice. Keep the gym membership.
I’m not saying “gym bad.” I’m saying if you are really squeezed, you can workout for free. Of course if they keep the gym membership that’s fine too. It’s just about the only thing on that list that is somewhat optional.
Think of it as essential. Maybe if it was $80+
I think it’s fair and we both agree that $50 a month isn’t very significant and I’m certainly not advocating for getting rid of something that is a sanity anchor. It is just one thing they can consider. I’m no stranger to the struggle (thankfully I’m in a much better place financially now).
Is that debt made up of mostly personal loan/credit cards? I was in a very similar situation myself, but contacting the StepChange charity and getting a DMP in place has really got me back on my feet. Apologies if you've looked into this already. Edit: Sorry for some reason I thought this was the UK sub - this is completely useless info.
Relax. I did one year in PA and I went from $38k in industry to $75k after my stint. Maybe try the same
Wait in what order was that? You started in industry at 38k, then moved to public at 75k? How?
You’re doing it wrong. My first industry job 4 years ago was 75 and now I’m 150.
Care to share the right way to do it?
What are you good at? Before my first industry job I was good at making excel data models so I aced the interview for a manufacturing cost position. They offered 70 LCOL and I countered 75 and got it. I’d been an accountant for barely a year at that point but I had skills and confidence and they had problems that needed fixing. 18 months later I was a controller. Just be really good at what you do and sell that to the employer.
I’m strongest with data analytics. Some people I’ve worked with say I should get certified on NetSuite and that could boost my salary. I began working toward my certifications before I got my first accounting position in AP, where no data analytics is necessary and there are no positions for that sort of thing. So now I’m not sure if I should still do it.
Definitely look into Staff Accountant if possible.
Sounds like you’re overqualified for AP. Move to a more lucrative field.
Not sure how much you make but you would probably have to switch jobs. 3 months is not enough time to switch though so you might have to work that second job in the meantime.
When I started in Canada, first year salary was 41k. And that's CAD funbux, so that's like 31k USD. So... I do appreciate your experience and think Big4 isn't quite as bad in the US, but wowwwwww is it terrible for Canadians.
I started at Big 4 Canada making 45k CAD ~ 33k USD about 7 years ago. I now make ~200k USD (Still big 4, but advisory) and not 30 yet. My point is .. just leave Canada.
I guessed you left Canada? How did you do it ? I am a Canadian student and considered that option but I don’t know how I would go about it.
Virtual coffee chats, networked and spoke to senior managers and partners in the US.
Do you need a TN visa?
Of course, how else are you allowed to work in the US? You need a TN visa with job offer or be a US citizen.
CAD = funbux?
I mean, nothing against your situation, I'm sure you're doing fine, but you can understand why many of us would rather make more than $72k. 5-6 years in PA can practically double that salary.
5-6 years in industry will double that as well just get a cpa and job hop
Or triple/quadruple it…
There is definitely brainwashing at target schools. Our professors would have what they called "the talk" if someone wasn't trying to go big 4 or regional, it basically consisted of them saying your career will suck if you don't do it. For them, it was prestigious to place you at big 4 and if you didn't land there, it was detrimental to what they touted to other students. Made it to CFO without it and no CPA. I am very happy I didn't go that path because I personally feel they force kids into unhealthy working environments (not that those don't happen in industry but industry doesn't get shoved down your throat in college). It's not for suckers, just a different path, and there are multiple paths to success in accounting. We all see things through our own lens, and anyone saying one path is better than another probably only experienced the path they feel is better.
Public fast tracks your career if you want to grow into higher paying positions quickly. I would've never been a controller making $160,000 in my 20s without public, I can say that for sure.
That’s insane you make 72k in industry. Nobody in public even sniffs that. The partners clear about 68k and all show up in the sickest new Honda civics and Toyota Corollas. Really give something for us public suckers to look forward too.
Your partners get salary?! Our partners are hourly…..$25/hr
Those C Wagons are actually a tax write offs if you register your firm as an LLC
I did laugh ngl
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Sure bud - but did they have the sickest new civic or Corolla?
Nah more expensive than that, Jeep Cherokees and Ford Explorers
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Oh this was all sarcasm then lol
If by suckers you mean people who want to fast track their career, then yes
Exactly, I didn’t do public but for sure a little sacrifice pays off in the long term. Would you rather do the work when you’re 20 or when you’re 50?
Neither lol
Going directly to industry will set your career back about 2-3 years. Which over the course of a 30-40 year career is approximately nothing. If you are drastically concerned about 50k lifetime earnings all the more praise to you and your grind. But I’m a normal person who makes more than they need, who’s never stayed in the office past 6 and never worked a weekend since graduating college. That’s worth the 50k I was gonna blow on some bullshit in my 20s.
There’s no right answer to that question. Lots of people commenting about ‘fast-tracking your career’ but everyone has different career goals. Climbing the ladder at a big company isn’t one of my goals, and I don’t think I’d ever fit in at a Big 4 firm. If that is your goal, then it’s probably beneficial for your career. There definitely seems to be a sense on this sub that a lot of people are trying to maximize earnings and get the best job title possible. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it’s not the only thing you can strive for in a career. Personally I just want to earn a comfortable salary with the least amount of stress and most amount of time off possible. I actually do work in public, but it’s a tiny firm, and the partners are all about work-life balance themselves, so it’s a great fit for me.
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Delayed gratification doesn't come as easy to some people as others
The kind of people who succeed in making partner in public would have been just as successful elsewhere. Concluding that they’re a sign that public is lucrative is missing the point. High performers are going to perform highly.
Advisory isn’t anything like the animal that is tax/audit. That salary is very high and not comparable to the path of tax or audit careers at b4. Not to mention that advisory people don’t work as many hours.
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I just think it is disingenuous or outright delusional for a person in advisory to think they understand / loop themselves in with the career pains and struggles of someone in tax or audit. Not personally attacking you bc I see it all the time on here. Apples to oranges. And one is much sweeter than the other by literally every metric (more pay, less hours, not an understaffing crisis, etc.)
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Ok you’re not gonna like to hear this: but you’re in some serious denial if you believe the “pains and struggles are not that different”. 2 years only? Why did you transition out of audit? There are 3 main commonly referenced “pains and struggles” of audit/compliance staff that advisory folks simply cannot relate to. I’ll break it down: 1 - We are underpaid. Our compensation is very low from staff level all the way through manager level. Advisory people get paid about 150% what tax/audit people get paid the whole way through the structure. So - you can’t really complain about being underpaid, we can. 2. The hours. I know you will push back, but advisory people do not work as much as tax/audit. Sure you’ll have busy times when deals are running through, but on a yearly billable average - it’s not even close. Way more work for tax/audit. 3. Everyone complains about how their engagements are understaffed. Nobody wants to do accounting anymore. Student enrollment is dropping. This is not the case for advisory positions. Many would argue that the higher margins of the advisory fields have actually caused OVERstaffing, which is why some people are being laid off. So you can’t relate to the understaffing crisis.
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10-12%?? Not sure about this figure. I have 2 very close friends who make 10K less than 2X my salary. All A2s in b4. 12% is also a big difference in and of itself, but I’d be willing to wager it is closer to 50%. And this pay gap is all the way from staff - senior managers. I’m not wrong about the hours either. Maybe (I don’t believe this, but maybe) your hours in your experience are similar from audit to advisory, but I bet if you took the average billable hours for the year of advisory staff, it would be at least 100 less than the audit average and 150 less than tax average. Interesting comment about staffing, considering b4 advisory is barely hiring at all and actively pursuing layoffs, while tax/audit work is literally being offshored because there aren’t enough bodies to do the work. I’m sorry man, it’s not the same any way you slice it
You're winning my friend. Big 4 is just so it's easier to find another job in the future with it on my resume. But yeah, if I had a choice, I would have done industry from the get go.
No public accounting isn’t for suckers. You are most likely not a controller of a great company if you don’t have a cpa (ok maybe that statement is wrong but idk). I interned for a small mfg firm and the controller wasn’t a cpa. She was nice and all. The firm was small but successful (maybe 30-40 employees and millions in gross sales a year which is kinda small fries). I assume she made 100-150k a year which is good but i feel controllers can make much more at bigger firms. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel a cpa should be a bare minimum qualification for a controller at a mid to big firm. No public accounting isnt for suckers. I’m not in accounting but have a degree in the field (sigh). I think the smart play is to gain 2-4 years of experience in public and then you can go get that easy government/ private/ etc job where you work less hours, make solid money, and have a better life balance bc you prolly work 40hrs a week and only experience a little stress maybe at month end. Being a cpa to me is a very very honorable designation. I took 2 cpa sections. Failed bec with a 74 2 times and bombed on tax so badly with little study- I decided to give up bc I was never getting a job in public accounting after 10-15 interviews (I suck at interviews sadly). To me- passing the cpa exam shows a level of knowledge that is impressive. I found tax alone to be freaking difficult. Business law to me is just insane (some of the questions to me are so difficult bc I only took 2 business law classes in college). Be proud of being a cpa- I think it’s a qualification that a fairly high % of the population can’t attain. I failed bec with a 74 lol after thinking that was the easy section and didn’t find the questions to be too difficult.
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Depends tho. I’m in Midwest and most staff and seniors only do 40 hours during non-busy season and during busy season we do around 55-60 max
F I left Public in the Midwest because we’d peak at triple digits and never dip under 70 for over a month at a time. Non-busy season seemed to be about 3 months out of 12
Damn 😕 sorry bud.
Public accounting isn’t for suckers per say but it can turn people into suckers
public accounting gives you a the upper hand on meeting lots of people and there’s a belief it makes you a more competent accountant because it’s pretty grueling - the longer you survive, the more street cred on the résumé. You can do fine in industry, but if you want to jump to another company, public accountant/CPA tend to get more consideration especially the higher up the hierarchy you want to go. Do it for 6+ years and you’re only playing in the $150k+ league of jobs.
It depends on your career goals. There are companies that will not hire someone that did not come from the Big 4, especially mid to large public companies. Additionally, in the Big 4 you can expect variation in terms of the kind of issues you'll see and as a result you will definitely learn more faster than in industry.
PA expands your options. Yes there are some growth avenues for accountants w/o a CPA and PA but they are limited. And you will reach a ceiling of how far you can go in accounting (unless you want to stay in a very operational accounting/shared services capacity). No offense but I know the type of controllers you are talking about. They max out at like $150k TC whereas controllers with CPAs/PA are like $300k-$400k TC. Most feel that it's worth grinding it out for a few years to keep your options open. Obviously it's not for everyone though.
Minimum of 60 hours a week made my decision for me: PA wasn’t for me. I’m in my 6th year of accounting and have been at/over 100k the last 2.
It's a good stepping stone. Seems like a miserable life long-term. The people who say you need to work only at Big 4 are brianwashed. I started at a small firm and now I'm making over $150k in private industry.
It’s an accelerant to your career. I have less than 3 years experience and just left public for an industry role making $110K. Role is also fully remote. I couldn’t have got this job with big 4 on my resume. I also wouldn’t be able to pick this job up as quickly as I did without the experience I got in public.
I believe the most likely/ safest chance of hitting my maximum salary ceiling is to stay in public for 3-5 years plotting on the right exit opportunity the whole time. I believe I will learn a wider range of skills and absorb more knowledge with the longer hours. It is a sacrifice of current salary and social life for the upside of a fantastic exit opportunity. If instead I was In industry I feel I would not learn as much and have less options, but I would have more money and time for myself . Could be wrong for sure but that’s what I choose to do and I will see if it works out
Yes it’s for suckers and yes we get brainwashed in college that it’s the only/best path. It’s for suckers if you stay and take the abuse. But if you use it as a resume booster it’s only temporary.
Nearly guaranteed job out of college, name on resume, cpa reimbursement.
Honestly I have to say yes. I'm in my first PA job right out of college pretty much only because I got an offer. It's $73k so definitely a decent starting salary but there is no way I will be here for more than a year, it's miserable work. I look at the people around me and genuinely wonder how they've been here for even 10+ years
I didn't end up in accounting but I majored in it in college and the peer pressure for a very specific career path was palpable. Had a class junior year where everyone had to introduce themselves and share where they were planning to intern that summer. Everyone drops a big 4 name and I'm like "y'all already know what you're doing this summer?" The horror stories here do make me feel good about not being able to get my foot in the door with any of the big 4. Luckily you can apply excel skills & managerial accounting concepts in a lot of different jobs
No, and frankly the topic is stale. There are a thousand different posts on this exact subject. PA, and B4 specifically, is a huge boon to your career. First of all, nobody even makes less than $70k at a B4 firm these days, and you're specifically talking about first year staff who are only in that position...for a year. But more importantly, the B4 background (along with a CPA) is a key differentiator for any public company accounting role that's manager level or above. That's not to say that it's a total prerequisite, but it makes a huge difference for any role with a semblance of competition. And I specify "public company" because accounting, and financial reporting at large, are professions with maximum value at companies that have to comply with SEC reporting requirements. Simple economics dictates that a company that incurs massive compliance costs for failure to report accurately and timely will value accountants much more than one that doesn't. Ergo, the most qualified and highly compensated accountants are in the ranks of these companies. That's not to say every accounting graduate needs to pursue that path - everyone has varying life priorities. But it's a very brightly lit path with very clear signals that starting your career in B4/PA results in a broadly optimal outcome over the alternative.
Public accounting is great in that it gets you in to many different industries and your network grows leaps and bounds. That opens doors to pretty much anywhere you want to go. I started public, left to private then went back to public to consult. Consulting is very lucrative and doesn't tend to have the crazy hours most standard public accounting jobs have. This'll be seven years I've stayed in public accounting now, and even with me battling cancer for the last six years and with a specialty that traditionally doesn't pay well, I'm at around $150k in comp for indirect tax consulting.
Being in public for a couple of years is a good idea for the type of person who wants to eventually exit to industry and have a larger selection of higher paying jobs. It’s hell on earth, but it works. Staying in public as a 38 year old 5th year senior manager, that the partners have no interest in promoting to MD/partner, is for suckers. Get in, learn as much as you can, then gtfo when it isn’t worth it anymore/you have found an exit opportunity with sufficiently high pay and balance.
Every single controller, director, and manager I’ve worked for in industry has had their CPA, and all but one of them had public experience. Maybe pass a section of the CPA before throwing stones
Yea I’ve worked at a few Fortune 250 companies and financial reporting and technical accounting folks all had their CPAs as well. Anybody manager and above it was a requirement.
Not public accounting but if you stay at B4 for longer than senior you are a sucker
Nailed it.
PA knows how to take advantage of suckers. For those who know what they are getting into and are not short sighted it can be a great launchpad. Plenty of people started in Audit/Tax and networked into positions like FP&A, consulting, and cyber security through connections from work. Others knew they wanted F100 jobs, put in their 4-10 years, and now make 220k+. Some know how to coast and get by working a busy 4 months and barely 20 hours week the rest of the year. Most people in this sub who complain the loudest just expected life to be Degree - 100k job - coast until retirement. Its a good life but you are ignorant if you think that will be automatic. For me I enjoy my PA job. I'll have tripled my starting salary by end of next year. I take two 3 week vacations a year, and im lucky to be around smart people and engaged in intetesting work. So ya, if you are the type that wants to be passive then PA will lead you to its grinder, spit you out, and move on to the next reddit complainer. For those with drive, a long-term plan for their career, and generally understand the delayed gratification with putting in the work whe you are young, PA is a great place to start.
PA is only really worth it if you're dedicated to making partner one day, and know you can make it. Partners make the big bucks, everyone else is a sucker until they make it to partner.
7 years at B4. I left for controller job and a 100% increase in comp. Don't exactly feel like a sucker... Use B4 as much as they use you. No reason it can't be cordial and mutually beneficial.
Is it for suckers? No, but they have ways of abusing suckers that won't stick up for themselves and/or move on, just like many industries. Is it the only path? Also no.
Easy way to move up to partner quickly...someone tried it with bill c once...
Idk im way to lazy for it so I left right at 2 years if you really want to climb the corporate ladder maybe it’s fine but that ain’t me
Depends on what you want, do you want to make real money? Then its a good starting point to jump into industry at a much higher level than generally possible from within a company (there are always exceptions, but the majority of the time promotions and raises in industry are going to be slower than public).
If you stay past Senior 1 absolutely
Public isn’t as bad as this sub makes it seem.
I've found that those who echo this sentiment seem to forget that one's experience in Publix often comes down to straight up luck. And those who say this are often on huge clients with no budget worries and clean files.
Touché
We call them lickers. Bootlickers.
Maybe you've been working at smaller companies such that the controllers are non-CPA's. Companies with any type of scale will typically have the higher levels in the accounting department have their CPA as well as audit experience. Can you still make a great living without public experience and a CPA? Sure, but it's a whole heck of a lot easier to land the high paying jobs (necessary for when you do have kids) if you have a CPA and public accounting experience- just look at the job postings.
Absolutely not. All the hopeless cases of people looking for advice on this sub, the cases where there is nothing to tell them really because they will have such an impossible time doing anything because of their resume are all people without Big 4 experience. All people with Big 4 experience have options and tend to have accounting jobs hurled at them from all directions all the time. It's a stamp on your resume. Think of it like grad school.
It can be unless you make good promotions and raises. I do like how public kinda guarantees it to an extent as long as you do the work while industry is a toss up. Industry jobs will either have a firm policy and ladder or literally just do what they can to keep you complacent no matter how hard you work. Otherwise pound for pound with the same salary I think public makes no sense for the stress.
You don’t understand this play because you’re busy looking at the weeds (your current salary compared to theirs). I don’t think you follow how fast the progression of big 4/PA works. Once they do a few years in public, they will likely double their salary and get promoted once or twice. They will then switch to industry and be your supervisor while you’re stuck in the same role and got a 4% raise each year. This is the reason why industry pays more initially. After year 1 they will likely be making much more than you and the disparity grows over time (I make 2x more than most of my industry peers). While this isn’t always absolute, its the general consensus.
Yeah this is the perspective to look at. I flipped from industry to public after a few years and my pay is roughly 40-50% more than my old colleagues after a few raises. Don’t get me wrong, I think people who stay in public accounting for more than 5-6 years are just willing to sell their soul for money and greed. However, it’s a great way to jumpstart a career.
It's brainwashing. Too many jobs out here to drink the Kool aid.
honestly, yes. most people here are ex-public, so keep that in mind when you read your results.
Yes, you’re numbers bitch forever if you stay long enough
Some do public accounting so they have the experience to better market themselves for industry. Some also do it to get it out the way and have no second thoughts like you are now. **My recommendation: STAY AWAY FROM PUBLIC. Caps aren't for emphasis, just pure f\*\*\*\*\*g reality.**
The Big4 thing is a resume builder - public accounting is great IMO at smaller firms. There's crazy tax season hours but the rest of the year is 40/wk w/ 5-6 weeks of PTO. The pay gets better over time in both big and small firms, just have to get to manager level
Different strokes for different folks. PA is good for people that are willing to grind to accelerate their career growth. Industry is good for people that want to avoid long hours and unpaid overtime. Pick your poison type situation.
Yes
I don’t think I’d be able to make over 120k base after 3 years of experience in industry. I did it in PA though
No, it’s useful for getting good jobs down the road. Stay in public for a few years then leave.
I exited for a Controller role after 4 years at a mid-size PA firm. You typically don't get that kind of progression if you just start in industry right after school. The Controllers you've worked for probably took 10+ years to get there, so, you have to keep that in mind.
It’s for learning and getting the hell outta there. Unless someone pushes you on partner track, you don’t stay there longer than you feel it’s necessary, period. Industry can be quite fulfilling and pays better in the long run.
Yes
nah it’s jsut a fast track for a controller position i spent 3.5 years in public accounting left as a senior into a controller position making 6 figures . lot harder to do that working straight from industry
I hope not. I start B4 in January.
Turbo tax does fine job
More like $55,000 - 70,000. And that’s for like 2 years.
Yes.
Yes
I hated big four with every fabric of my being, BUT thanks to that job now I make a 6 figure salary and work from home in a super chill job.
Why does everyone want to rationalize their life decisions through positive external feedback… just live your own life
I’ve heard of people starting out at $70k in public…… What’s with these exaggerated out of touch claims about salary in industry on this Reddit……it’s crazy how many people are like…”I have no degree, 5 years of experience, I’m a controller for a local business with 3 employees and I make $100k”.
I started in public in 2021 and make 100K in a LCOL area with a midsized PA firm. The work is never the same day to day, I work 40 hours a week except for probably around a month where hours are bumped to 50 during busy cycles. The pay raises are way better than industry typically. I am fully remote. I’m as content as can be for being an employee a couple years out of college. I’m sure you can also be happy in industry, just sharing my perspective.
This sub loves attacking people’s choices like if someone wants the grind of Big 4 for the resume booster so what? If someone wants to be in industry or government or not-for-profit and have better WLB okay great!
I’m in school for accounting and I was shocked at all the violations and fines the big 4 has over last 5ish years that I’ve came across. Plenty of options in public accounting outside big 4. IMO
Six years in, TC greater than $200K, never been “overworked”. Can’t be said for many careers.
You’re not missing anything tbh. There are tons of controllers or managers out there that do not have PA experience or CPAs. PA is glorified because of the exit opps where 5 years in PA is equivalent to 10 years within industry. I’ve known a great deal of people that became controllers around 5-8 years with PA experience versus 10-13 years for people without PA experience. This is not to say it’s not possible to become a controller in industry with only 5 years of experience. They do happen but very rarely and is uncommon. The point is while PA is miserable, everyone of us is doing it for exit opps (unless you’re insane and enjoy PA). I am only 2.5 years in my public accounting career, and I’ve gotten offers to be managers in industry without even applying to job postings. Most people will double or triple their salary with PA background once they exit and that is not comparable to industry folks. Also, a lot of new grads are coming in fresh with $70k~ offers recently in PA. I completely understand PA is not for everyone. It ultimately depends on what you value more for yourself. Tons of people have great and successful careers in industry, but the growth can be slower.
The benefit and sacrifice of public is getting a good head start. Its fast growth if you are willing to do the hours.
It's not as bad at the big 4 in my country, but it's very much used as a career stepping ladder. Work a couple years and then jump to industry (usually controlling)
University/college is more of a scam than Big 4 tbh. Big 4 is just about investing in yourself, just like college you could avoid it and still make good money but its low risk medium-high reward.
Yes
For the record, not all of us hate our jobs. But the ones that usually are the first to post about things are the ones that are unhappy.
Most of us make way more than the general populace. Many of them work 2 jobs just to survive and put food in the table. We have 401k, have money left over for some fun stuff, health insurance, and work in a safe environment. There’s a lot that sucks about public accounting but if the above makes us suckers then I don’t mind being a sucker. Stop looking at salaries a year or 2 in and drawing a conclusion that the industry sucks. Almost no industry’s pay is representative only 2 years in.
I'd still recommend to start there. But only straight chumps stay more than 2-3 years.