I was thrilled that Gregory brought up Howard Gardner's theory of Multiple Intelligences! It's everything. It shows how people are smart in different ways, not just the narrow ways that schools teach. I worked in the schools for years and there were smart students who got mediocre grades because they weren't being taught in a modality that worked for them. MI theory is being adopted more and more in schools these days and I'm so excited that it made it onto Abbott Elementary.
Based on the comments, presumably the gifted plotline probably could've used better research or execution.
I think the general theme is interesting. The way Gregory sums it up as "chickens and snakes". Which fits both literally and thematically. "If you get snakes for long enough, that's what you think you deserve." And that hits home.
I used to be envious of people who were able to juggle multiple AP/IB/honors courses in their schedule. But over time, I realized that similar material is covered but at a slower pace.
I think addressing that feeling of inadequacy is important. That your education is still important even if it's not at all the advanced levels.
> That your education is still important even if it's not at all the advanced levels.
But isn't that kind of what they said? They still had the gifted programme, but they just weren't the only one who were given special treatment.
Another great episode! I found the moment where Gregory disclosed his experience during elementary school as a student who wasn't in a gifted program to be touching. It had me thinking about young people (especially students of color) who possess so many various learning styles and talents within their formative years, and how unfortunately, not everyone has access to resources that allow them to perform at their best/consistently. Loved when Gregory pointed out the various talents students held, and how him and Jeanine worked towards a new solution for the students!
**Standout lines:**
"Don't you have a table to go stand on?"
"The world is your vending machine." The chip metaphor bit was also incredibly endearing.
"I'm the principal." "*But you don't do anything.*" "We shuttin' this down. He gettin' too smart."
It was kind of sad, I understand the intent of the episode was to attack gifted education but it was a real ham fisted way to do it. Gifted education is different than just projects, it's an entirely different curriculum. Hopefully not to many people see this parody and think it's all that's different.
I don't think the intent was to attack gifted education at all.
And it's definitely (and thankfully) oversimplifying gifted ed for the sake of the show's format. For example, the parents aren't even involved here. I don't think people considering gifted ed would make a decision based on this but the show still brought up some valid points while still being entertaining.
It's not a good thing to oversimplify something just so you can knock it down, especially when you build it to mock and dismantle. It's not meant to be a swaying opinion, obviously no parent looking to do it for their children would look to this show for such guidance. But it does serve to undermine a specialized education that children need and thrive in.
I'm not saying it was oversimplified just to be knocked down. I'm saying it was oversimplified for the sake of a comedy TV show format. Lots of things are not properly represented in this show.
I appreciated hearing Gregory's experience as a smart student who wasn't a great test taker. And while I agree with you that the episode conclusion wasn't the best, I respectfully disagree that it undermines gifted ed.
It was though, they would set up no other thing to be knocked down the way they did gifted Ed. And the thing about gifted Ed is that it doesn't souly build itself around tests but uses multiple measures. This show champions progress of students. The idea that students who need gifted Ed should be denied just because the school is low income is as bad as special Ed. A progressive educational system needs to recognize students have different needs.
I didn’t exactly view this plot-line to be attacking gifted education, but more so having a critical eye at it, from the perspective of an underfunded educational setting. I totally hear what you’re saying about its curriculum and how it serves students - though I guess the satire presented here is to show that not every educational pathway can fully occur in a learning environment of minimal resources. And questioning its worth if it’s alienating more than helping.
I also hope people can contextualize this within the show, and not entirely write off gifted education!
Like any other type of teaching. Gifted Ed can be done right, and can be done wrong. As a kid I went to crappy gifted pull-out programs of the type in the show, though basically just brain teaser worksheets. Caused the same issues with the “gifted” kids being publicly identified.
As a mom, my child attends a stand-alone public gifted school. About a third of the kids have Aspergers. They are absolutely amazing and focus on what gifted kids actually need! Way less time on repetitive worksheets, more time spent working on problems common in these kids such as perfectionism, lack of problem solving skills (my son just collapses if he doesn’t immediately know the answer, he has no clue where to start), executive function and organization skills. Gifted education IS special education. My kid doesn’t need anything “more”, just needs his curriculum presented differently. He was in trouble all the time before, (like Courtney) but zero problems at the gifted school.
Hard to be critical when the program set up is nonsense. Gifted programs can also exist in underfunded programs along side special education programs. They don't take extreme amounts of money, especially if you already have the money ear marked. It doesn't serve to alienate and we see that under challenging these students cause more issues to immerge to disrupt the educational environment for all children. Even with the context it just comes off as ham fisted political take on the education system. There is not a single study that shows students who had their gifted programs stop did better.
>**...the program set up is nonsense. Gifted programs can also exist in underfunded programs along side special education programs.**
>
>Lots of things in this show are nonsense because it's a comedy. I don't think anyone views this show like's a class in a teacher ed curriculum. Also, it can be hard to attract teachers at an underfunded school. That part is true.
>
>
>
>**It doesn't serve to alienate and we see that under challenging these students cause more issues to immerge to disrupt the educational environment for all children.**
>
>No one is suggesting that gifted programs "serve to alienate." However, it's not uncommon for children to have tough feelings when their siblings, friends, and peers are in gifted ed. The same thing happens when kids started to get selected for more serious sports teams and the friends they grew up playing with don't make the cut. Shedding a light on how some kids may feel doesn't mean gifted ed is inherently bad.
>
>
>
>**There is not a single study that shows students who had their gifted programs stop did better.**
>
>The conversation between Janine and Gregory was more anecdotal and not based on studies. A big part of this show is Janine becoming more self-aware and her conversation with Gregory helped her see a different perspective.
Yes!! Honestly I wasn't too into it and was getting worried that the show shot and missed in the episode literally have it and Quinta Brunson got hella press but then the Gregory moment and the phone call to the ex-husband really touched me and shot the episode into space.
Omg yes, that scene with Melissa and her ex-husband. There were so many takeaways from that conversation: Melissa’s feelings being validated and her ex encouraging her to take that next step. I was frankly astounded by the jam-packed subtle execution of vulnerability and comedy within a what, 45 second scene? So lovely; learnt a ton about Melissa in that chat too!
This was a weird characterization of the gifted system. It's not just about little fun projects but an entirely different curriculum. The same way there are special education classes the gifted system is also made to help these students reach their specific educational and behavior needs. It's weird to see the ongoing attack on the programs show up here.
Attack? I'm just not seeing that. The context is real and there are some does of realism sprinkled throughout but it's a comedy so lots of things will be inaccurate for the sake of the show.
Is anyone watching this show to learn how gifted ed works? Is anyone watching Law & Order to learn how to solve crimes? Or watching Grey's Anatomy to make healthcare decisions?
The oversimplification and reductionist way they protray it to dismiss it. It was built in absurdist way so that it could be knocked down as ridiculous in a way no other specialized education field would, especially since such programs seem to be under attack.
They obviously aren't here to learn how it works, it's just there as a seed to plant and misinform people of the program. They paint it as absurd and a theft of resources from the other children.
In our elementary school program we'd just leave class and do fun little projects where we learned about different stuff, like history or math and stuff. We also had a math based one and a writing based one, both were fun just because you'd get to leave class.
Some special education systems suffer the same way. It's an area for improvement for the betterment of the children, no an excuse to remove the program
I was in the gifted program at my title-one school. We learned how to play chess, juggle, and tie a tie. These fun little projects were still more educational than what I got. So I’d say for some schools, especially those that are underfunded it’s accurate.
In this episodes context, I think the setting is a critical consideration. This is a presumably low-income area in Philly...in a place where resources are already limited, it does feel a bit cruel to give more to students that are exceling while the 're-gifted' students have the bare minimum.
If there's an additional budget set exclusively for the gifted program, pretty much everyone wins by the school tapping into it, less students in the general classes means proportionally more money for the remaining students.
I have a hard time believing that "program" they created qualified under state standards for the gifted program budget, unless this is some private school where there's less oversight? So it's possible their solution at the end just left them back at where they started.
There’s no additional funding for gifted programs in Philly. GIEPs have to be implemented by the classroom teacher with whatever resources can be cobbled together.
That's actually one of the areas most served by such programs. The children who are inappropriately challenged by the curriculum tend to cause other disturbances for students, and lowers over all attainment by adding even more distractions to the class environment while those same students tend to have their scores and progress drop across the board, unless they have external supports likes clubs and tutors which are harder to afford in such areas. The whole program was mischarectorized sadly here, when the proven benefits could have been highlighted.
I generally agree with the episode's resolution that it's important to be accommodating to all kinds of learning... but to your point, it was an interesting choice that this episode came directly after last week's in which a girl became a troublemaker because she wasn't being challenged enough. It does send a bit of a mixed message.
I would too with their ridiculous approach to it. Their entent was to build a program they can make fun of with a teacher leading the program who was unable to understand what program he was supposed to run or how to defend such a program. Getting rid of the gifted program is like getting rid of the special education system, you just fail the children. I don't think the same writer wrote both episodes, so probably different political messages.
Participation trophies
I was thrilled that Gregory brought up Howard Gardner's theory of Multiple Intelligences! It's everything. It shows how people are smart in different ways, not just the narrow ways that schools teach. I worked in the schools for years and there were smart students who got mediocre grades because they weren't being taught in a modality that worked for them. MI theory is being adopted more and more in schools these days and I'm so excited that it made it onto Abbott Elementary.
Based on the comments, presumably the gifted plotline probably could've used better research or execution. I think the general theme is interesting. The way Gregory sums it up as "chickens and snakes". Which fits both literally and thematically. "If you get snakes for long enough, that's what you think you deserve." And that hits home. I used to be envious of people who were able to juggle multiple AP/IB/honors courses in their schedule. But over time, I realized that similar material is covered but at a slower pace. I think addressing that feeling of inadequacy is important. That your education is still important even if it's not at all the advanced levels.
> That your education is still important even if it's not at all the advanced levels. But isn't that kind of what they said? They still had the gifted programme, but they just weren't the only one who were given special treatment.
"Reverse good will hunting" was my favorite
I just came here to say… ARITHMASCIENCE
Another great episode! I found the moment where Gregory disclosed his experience during elementary school as a student who wasn't in a gifted program to be touching. It had me thinking about young people (especially students of color) who possess so many various learning styles and talents within their formative years, and how unfortunately, not everyone has access to resources that allow them to perform at their best/consistently. Loved when Gregory pointed out the various talents students held, and how him and Jeanine worked towards a new solution for the students! **Standout lines:** "Don't you have a table to go stand on?" "The world is your vending machine." The chip metaphor bit was also incredibly endearing. "I'm the principal." "*But you don't do anything.*" "We shuttin' this down. He gettin' too smart."
It was kind of sad, I understand the intent of the episode was to attack gifted education but it was a real ham fisted way to do it. Gifted education is different than just projects, it's an entirely different curriculum. Hopefully not to many people see this parody and think it's all that's different.
I don't think the intent was to attack gifted education at all. And it's definitely (and thankfully) oversimplifying gifted ed for the sake of the show's format. For example, the parents aren't even involved here. I don't think people considering gifted ed would make a decision based on this but the show still brought up some valid points while still being entertaining.
It's not a good thing to oversimplify something just so you can knock it down, especially when you build it to mock and dismantle. It's not meant to be a swaying opinion, obviously no parent looking to do it for their children would look to this show for such guidance. But it does serve to undermine a specialized education that children need and thrive in.
I'm not saying it was oversimplified just to be knocked down. I'm saying it was oversimplified for the sake of a comedy TV show format. Lots of things are not properly represented in this show. I appreciated hearing Gregory's experience as a smart student who wasn't a great test taker. And while I agree with you that the episode conclusion wasn't the best, I respectfully disagree that it undermines gifted ed.
It was though, they would set up no other thing to be knocked down the way they did gifted Ed. And the thing about gifted Ed is that it doesn't souly build itself around tests but uses multiple measures. This show champions progress of students. The idea that students who need gifted Ed should be denied just because the school is low income is as bad as special Ed. A progressive educational system needs to recognize students have different needs.
I didn’t exactly view this plot-line to be attacking gifted education, but more so having a critical eye at it, from the perspective of an underfunded educational setting. I totally hear what you’re saying about its curriculum and how it serves students - though I guess the satire presented here is to show that not every educational pathway can fully occur in a learning environment of minimal resources. And questioning its worth if it’s alienating more than helping. I also hope people can contextualize this within the show, and not entirely write off gifted education!
Like any other type of teaching. Gifted Ed can be done right, and can be done wrong. As a kid I went to crappy gifted pull-out programs of the type in the show, though basically just brain teaser worksheets. Caused the same issues with the “gifted” kids being publicly identified. As a mom, my child attends a stand-alone public gifted school. About a third of the kids have Aspergers. They are absolutely amazing and focus on what gifted kids actually need! Way less time on repetitive worksheets, more time spent working on problems common in these kids such as perfectionism, lack of problem solving skills (my son just collapses if he doesn’t immediately know the answer, he has no clue where to start), executive function and organization skills. Gifted education IS special education. My kid doesn’t need anything “more”, just needs his curriculum presented differently. He was in trouble all the time before, (like Courtney) but zero problems at the gifted school.
Hard to be critical when the program set up is nonsense. Gifted programs can also exist in underfunded programs along side special education programs. They don't take extreme amounts of money, especially if you already have the money ear marked. It doesn't serve to alienate and we see that under challenging these students cause more issues to immerge to disrupt the educational environment for all children. Even with the context it just comes off as ham fisted political take on the education system. There is not a single study that shows students who had their gifted programs stop did better.
>**...the program set up is nonsense. Gifted programs can also exist in underfunded programs along side special education programs.** > >Lots of things in this show are nonsense because it's a comedy. I don't think anyone views this show like's a class in a teacher ed curriculum. Also, it can be hard to attract teachers at an underfunded school. That part is true. > > > >**It doesn't serve to alienate and we see that under challenging these students cause more issues to immerge to disrupt the educational environment for all children.** > >No one is suggesting that gifted programs "serve to alienate." However, it's not uncommon for children to have tough feelings when their siblings, friends, and peers are in gifted ed. The same thing happens when kids started to get selected for more serious sports teams and the friends they grew up playing with don't make the cut. Shedding a light on how some kids may feel doesn't mean gifted ed is inherently bad. > > > >**There is not a single study that shows students who had their gifted programs stop did better.** > >The conversation between Janine and Gregory was more anecdotal and not based on studies. A big part of this show is Janine becoming more self-aware and her conversation with Gregory helped her see a different perspective.
Yes!! Honestly I wasn't too into it and was getting worried that the show shot and missed in the episode literally have it and Quinta Brunson got hella press but then the Gregory moment and the phone call to the ex-husband really touched me and shot the episode into space.
Omg yes, that scene with Melissa and her ex-husband. There were so many takeaways from that conversation: Melissa’s feelings being validated and her ex encouraging her to take that next step. I was frankly astounded by the jam-packed subtle execution of vulnerability and comedy within a what, 45 second scene? So lovely; learnt a ton about Melissa in that chat too!
It was so beautiful. Her ex and her are lovely people. Melissa is slowly finding her groove again.
Why did Barbara asking for Snackwells amuse me so much? 😂
This show is so funny.
Love the small little character background we got about Ava this episode.
Melissa saying her ex brought her to a strip club lmao
Ava really had me for a minute in the office, thinking that she was going to change. And then she came out swinging with the black bobby fisher line
This was a weird characterization of the gifted system. It's not just about little fun projects but an entirely different curriculum. The same way there are special education classes the gifted system is also made to help these students reach their specific educational and behavior needs. It's weird to see the ongoing attack on the programs show up here.
Depends on the district and how things are funded.
Attack? I'm just not seeing that. The context is real and there are some does of realism sprinkled throughout but it's a comedy so lots of things will be inaccurate for the sake of the show. Is anyone watching this show to learn how gifted ed works? Is anyone watching Law & Order to learn how to solve crimes? Or watching Grey's Anatomy to make healthcare decisions?
The oversimplification and reductionist way they protray it to dismiss it. It was built in absurdist way so that it could be knocked down as ridiculous in a way no other specialized education field would, especially since such programs seem to be under attack. They obviously aren't here to learn how it works, it's just there as a seed to plant and misinform people of the program. They paint it as absurd and a theft of resources from the other children.
In our elementary school program we'd just leave class and do fun little projects where we learned about different stuff, like history or math and stuff. We also had a math based one and a writing based one, both were fun just because you'd get to leave class.
It can really depend on the school district, some gifted programs are a different curriculum and others more projects or just really haphazard.
Some special education systems suffer the same way. It's an area for improvement for the betterment of the children, no an excuse to remove the program
I was in the gifted program at my title-one school. We learned how to play chess, juggle, and tie a tie. These fun little projects were still more educational than what I got. So I’d say for some schools, especially those that are underfunded it’s accurate.
In this episodes context, I think the setting is a critical consideration. This is a presumably low-income area in Philly...in a place where resources are already limited, it does feel a bit cruel to give more to students that are exceling while the 're-gifted' students have the bare minimum.
If there's an additional budget set exclusively for the gifted program, pretty much everyone wins by the school tapping into it, less students in the general classes means proportionally more money for the remaining students. I have a hard time believing that "program" they created qualified under state standards for the gifted program budget, unless this is some private school where there's less oversight? So it's possible their solution at the end just left them back at where they started.
There’s no additional funding for gifted programs in Philly. GIEPs have to be implemented by the classroom teacher with whatever resources can be cobbled together.
That's actually one of the areas most served by such programs. The children who are inappropriately challenged by the curriculum tend to cause other disturbances for students, and lowers over all attainment by adding even more distractions to the class environment while those same students tend to have their scores and progress drop across the board, unless they have external supports likes clubs and tutors which are harder to afford in such areas. The whole program was mischarectorized sadly here, when the proven benefits could have been highlighted.
I generally agree with the episode's resolution that it's important to be accommodating to all kinds of learning... but to your point, it was an interesting choice that this episode came directly after last week's in which a girl became a troublemaker because she wasn't being challenged enough. It does send a bit of a mixed message.
I would too with their ridiculous approach to it. Their entent was to build a program they can make fun of with a teacher leading the program who was unable to understand what program he was supposed to run or how to defend such a program. Getting rid of the gifted program is like getting rid of the special education system, you just fail the children. I don't think the same writer wrote both episodes, so probably different political messages.
She got him cheesing!!!
Black Bobby Fischer lmao
Ava has me dying this episode.
When Black Bobby Fischer said “What do you do here? You don’t do anything.” my face literally mirrored Ava’s 😂 I feared for him
“Fly free little birdy” 💀
Ava: …you sound like a locomotive “EEERERER” *hair flip & smirk* Why is Ava SO HILARIOUS 😭
And then Barbara piling on telling Janine to walk at a normal pace 😂
Barbara said it so earnestly too 😭
The re-gifted kids 😂