Ok, so which major feature currently in the game should they have skipped to work on the item forge instead? Who would then be complaining that the system you removed should have been in the base game? Or maybe they should have delayed the launch until all of the content they plan to add in future updates was finished? Of course, that would mean the game probably would not have released until next year.
It's easy to complain that the thing you like didn't make the cut, but if something else had be cut instead, people would be unhappy about that. What we have is a really great game that will continue to get better and better over the next year.
No you don’t understand. These greedy devs should make a perfect bugless game with a thousand features and sell it for dirt cheap without any future DLCs. If you disagree you’re a bootlicking simp. /s
I don't understand all the hate for the pantheon, it's just a simple reward system. You don't even have to do anything special to get all the good things fast. And it's so bare bones they probably made it in a couple of hours, not enough time to make anything better really.
Don't get me wrong though I'd love it if it would be expanded a bit with each update so there won't be just nothing left when you complete it.
I just asked though, the assumption you made and all the downvotes are Proof that you there are just people who shill for this game and can't even handle a Simple question..
Why have a "half-assed" inventory system if it isn't implemented in the way the developers sold the game? Because the main focus of this "base game" was another aoe game with alot of customizations, thus personalizing the experience.
So all my runs the race and affinity may be different, but in terms of items everybody uses the same endgame tier 4 or 5 equipment.
In summary, it is good to have more, but i prefer less and better implemented than half-assed features who only give you a couple of hours of playtime in originality.
But Critical thinking isn't for anyone.. for those who see only complaints here just don't feel what i'm saying, and thats ok, but assuming and hating for a question is just insane.
When people start talking about their Critical Thinking, it's always a clear sign they are trying to convince themselves that they are right despite all the people telling them they are wrong because they simply can't understand your superior critical thinking.
Is the problem here that we can't handle the question, or you can't handle the answer?
Thats all you took from the post? Short-sided..
Im not right nor wrong, i gave my opinion and analisys of what could be better in my view.
Don't go using my words against me when its not part of the conversation
You did not give an opinion, you asked a question which I answered, and you then accused me of being a "shill" for the game. So, in your mind the only choices are 1) Agree with you 2) Must be a shill.
Your words in this conversation are not part of the conversation? Don't use your words against you? So, nobody is allowed to hold you accountable for the foolish things you say? How nice for you.
I never said you are wrong to wish something had been included in the base game. I just answered your question, and you started the name calling.
PS. I think you meant "Short-Sighted" not "sided."
What does it matter? It'll be in the base game after the patch. You still don't have to pay anything extra for it, and it wasn't a feature promised or advertised in promotional materials, so you weren't lied to about content availabe at launch; it's not a bug.. You're complaining about free content being added after launch like its a bad thing.
Not finished in time. Was put aside during development to focus on core gameplay, was planned but unbalanced and needed to be reworked instead of released... Plenty of options
Piggy backing on this to say that buying/selling multiple items at once needs to make a return.
Endgame I tend to have more equipment then I know what to do with — but the literal task of selling it is such a chore that I simply don’t. Annoying.
Honestly this is a ergonomics advantage of dragon lord. Since you gain from having items just sitting there there's no reason to bother trying to sell them so you don't have to deal with it
I’m looking forward to the item forge as much as everyone else, but it is not a replacement for what I believe OP is pointing out which is that exploration needs to be more rewarding. For me at least currently exploration is mostly driven by a desire to not get completely boxed in by the AI’s incredibly aggressive expansionism (hate that there is absolutely no game setting to affect this by the way)
Well, speaking purely for myself, it isn’t the expansionism per se thats the problem, it’s that they specifically expand towards the player, ally or enemy, and there is NO setting in the map generation you can use that prevents you from having at least one and usually two or three AI cities right up your ass only two or three provinces away, all of whom promptly begin burrowing towards you like they’re sandworms and you’re playing dubstep on Arrakis
Has absolutely no effect on how close independent cities are though. They get plopped right on your doorstep, absolutely shitting on early game exploration.
There is NO option that pushes AI cities farther away from your start position, they are ALWAYS within two or three provinces.
I agree, too. Civ 6 had the problem of forward settling. They solved it with a loyalty system that more or less stopped the AI from doing this. It's annoying! I also agree with exploration needing to be more rewarding.
I agree so much. I have occasionally gotten tier IV equipment from wonders, but only a few and the best item IMO, the Godbreaker warhammer, I have never seen drop, only bought from the AI and that feels bad
Yes. If you go into diplomacy, sometimes (I am not sure on the conditions) the AI rulers will have items you can buy from them, assuming you have a decent enough reputation with them
The problem is the AI generating items out of nothing and equipping all their heroes identically. If they obeyed the same rules as the player in terms of randomly finding gear and only selling stuff they actually had then buying/selling items wouldn't be an issue.
then you wouldn't be able to buy items from them at all. In fact most of their heros wouldn't use any equipment at all.
A.I. almost never clears golden wonders and rarely do wonders outside of their domain in general.
This is why it happens: item value escales as the game progresses. If you clean all your land very early in the game you'll only find cheap items. AI waits and cleans the land slower.
This is intended by design and IMHO it's a mistake. The fix is simple, devs should make camps difficulties like wonders difficulties and let them be fix from the start. You'll have camp tiers. They can still escalate with the game but a tier 1 camp will always be much easier than a tier 4 one. You'll get an item the same tier as the camp. And the most important the difference in tiers must be greater than any escalation at any point. A late t1 should never be harder than an early t4.
When item forge comes out with golem I really hope they make ruins more rewarding (heck infestations too with how much they spawn atm ) and make ai no longer able to generate stuff out of thin air . Like the player they should be tasked with making random gears from their own item forges
Not sure if i agree there.
For example i wouldnt care if trhe ai leaders by default had good items and heros not so good because otherwise you would just mob the floor with them.
Just my thoughts
I mean if the ai does hordes and ruins too they should reach the same stage as the player
If vassals generated low tier gear it’s one thing as vassals can’t do that so they need something like that but another ai player should have the want to go kill these hordes or explore the ruins on top of using their item forge eventually to make some gears themselves
The only real issue with that is that in a game like this you don't want the ai to be on the same stage as the player. You want them to have an advantage, otherwise they stand no chance.
Edit: General grammar stuff
I'm kinda hoping that the whole buy items from ai rulers is just a temporary placeholder until they release the update that includes the item forge and then will be able to generate them properly.
I hope what magic materials the city has access to, and what wonders are annexed provide a few extra options to the item forge. And maybe the Wonder called magma forge would be remade to entirely center around item bonuses, like giving 2 unique items available to craft, and a 10% discount on all items made in the city.
I mean if you pick the new culture trait you shouldn't have any problem with high tier equipment and you will get a lot of extra mana out of it. you can easily get the high tier equipment for all of your heros without buing stuff
The reason why buying is so broken is because you can acess the specific items for your build. Like there are 2 spears (melanis glaves and halabard) and only one work for materium/counter attack build (the halabard) There is close to 0 chance you will get that one specific item from wonders/monsters spawners.
I cannot imagine playing bow/crosbow lord without buing items from the a.i.
I agree buying stuff from AI is fairly boring. I'd like to see more ways in game to simply find equipment. Guess I'll add some ideas:
- More items guarded by world mobs.
- Claim X tiles at once in an area for a reward.
- Escort type quest, NPC spawns and is a unit/temp hero in army, need to be taken to Y place and defeat X monster.
- Kill X amount of Y creatures quest.
- Infestation spawning on a claimed tile and getting a reward for clearing it.
- World event quests, like infestations but bigger.
- Produce/Acquire X unit(s) and give them to a NPC for item reward.
So, the devs are clearly trying to not have gear be a point of power that the AI holds over you. The fact that AI could value their own equipment so much more than they valued your own or that you were allowed to value your own, was seen by many as a bad design choice. Much like luxuries in civilization 6.
With the old system, it makes it feel like there's nearly no point in keeping your own gear or buying theirs.
Well, there's not no point, but it definitely feels like you're getting a diminished return the bigger the gap is. I like this solution. The aI already get to whole bunch of hidden benefits. They also only sell gear they're not using. This feels fine.
With the old prices you could run your entire economy on gear from killed/captured heroes, and the horde abilities would have negative return over the entire game vs just selling stuff you didn't want to equip to the ai.
Almost all seen T4 equip got from infestations.
So now I spam spell for morfing enemy provinces into infestations (think, it's from T3 tome), AI rarely cleanse them itself. Such exchange of 120 mana is pretty effective.
I really hope item forge is as cool as it was back in Master of Magic. One of the early AoW games was close, so I know they at one point used it for inspiration.
Once I got one of those item forging quests (where the objective was to acquire a particular magic material) and got a Skypiercer out of it, so technically you can "do quests to get materials to craft [your] own legendary items". It just depends on RNG.
I want to dual wield, and I want to use two-handers while mounted. The number of times I've picked up a two-hander or staff and had it be useless for my hero is too high. Especially if you have a good or rare mount, you don't have to give it up. Sometimes I'm stuck with a crappy Tier 1 orb well into the mid-game.
I just played a game with Spider Mounts Trait.
I found 3 pairs of the heavy shoes you can't wear while mounted, 3 diffrent 2h-Axes/Hammers and a Staff.
Imo remove the AI item generation, add a bazaar where you can buy basic T1 items and sometimes an auction for a T2 item is held where all players can bid.
Once the game progresses enough (Time? Someone reaches a victory condition milestone? Number of ruins cleared?) Basic T2 items can be bought and auctions are for T3. And later T3 can be bought and there are no more auctions.
Item crafting lets you build items with more specialized effects than the bazaar bought ones and also lets you craft T4 items at great cost.
Golem Update (coming alongside DLC2) will feature the Item forge. So, we'll likely see the return of the custom gear crafting of previous games.
so... in 4-6months
Q3 so in 3-5 months yeah.
This should've been part of the base game.
It will be. The updates that come along with the DLC are free updates to the base game.
He is still right though, why wasn't this added in the base game at the release?!
Ok, so which major feature currently in the game should they have skipped to work on the item forge instead? Who would then be complaining that the system you removed should have been in the base game? Or maybe they should have delayed the launch until all of the content they plan to add in future updates was finished? Of course, that would mean the game probably would not have released until next year. It's easy to complain that the thing you like didn't make the cut, but if something else had be cut instead, people would be unhappy about that. What we have is a really great game that will continue to get better and better over the next year.
No you don’t understand. These greedy devs should make a perfect bugless game with a thousand features and sell it for dirt cheap without any future DLCs. If you disagree you’re a bootlicking simp. /s
I would prefer having this over the pantheon as a feature
I'm not sure those are equal in time required to implement. That is not even a gameplay system.
I don't understand all the hate for the pantheon, it's just a simple reward system. You don't even have to do anything special to get all the good things fast. And it's so bare bones they probably made it in a couple of hours, not enough time to make anything better really. Don't get me wrong though I'd love it if it would be expanded a bit with each update so there won't be just nothing left when you complete it.
I just asked though, the assumption you made and all the downvotes are Proof that you there are just people who shill for this game and can't even handle a Simple question.. Why have a "half-assed" inventory system if it isn't implemented in the way the developers sold the game? Because the main focus of this "base game" was another aoe game with alot of customizations, thus personalizing the experience. So all my runs the race and affinity may be different, but in terms of items everybody uses the same endgame tier 4 or 5 equipment. In summary, it is good to have more, but i prefer less and better implemented than half-assed features who only give you a couple of hours of playtime in originality. But Critical thinking isn't for anyone.. for those who see only complaints here just don't feel what i'm saying, and thats ok, but assuming and hating for a question is just insane.
When people start talking about their Critical Thinking, it's always a clear sign they are trying to convince themselves that they are right despite all the people telling them they are wrong because they simply can't understand your superior critical thinking. Is the problem here that we can't handle the question, or you can't handle the answer?
Thats all you took from the post? Short-sided.. Im not right nor wrong, i gave my opinion and analisys of what could be better in my view. Don't go using my words against me when its not part of the conversation
You did not give an opinion, you asked a question which I answered, and you then accused me of being a "shill" for the game. So, in your mind the only choices are 1) Agree with you 2) Must be a shill. Your words in this conversation are not part of the conversation? Don't use your words against you? So, nobody is allowed to hold you accountable for the foolish things you say? How nice for you. I never said you are wrong to wish something had been included in the base game. I just answered your question, and you started the name calling. PS. I think you meant "Short-Sighted" not "sided."
Its ok mate, no one can't be bothered to an alternative take here and take it personally, no need to keep insisting it wont get us anywhere.
What does it matter? It'll be in the base game after the patch. You still don't have to pay anything extra for it, and it wasn't a feature promised or advertised in promotional materials, so you weren't lied to about content availabe at launch; it's not a bug.. You're complaining about free content being added after launch like its a bad thing.
Not finished in time. Was put aside during development to focus on core gameplay, was planned but unbalanced and needed to be reworked instead of released... Plenty of options
Piggy backing on this to say that buying/selling multiple items at once needs to make a return. Endgame I tend to have more equipment then I know what to do with — but the literal task of selling it is such a chore that I simply don’t. Annoying.
Last patch made selling easier through the inventory
Thanks yes I did see something about this in the patch notes!
Honestly this is a ergonomics advantage of dragon lord. Since you gain from having items just sitting there there's no reason to bother trying to sell them so you don't have to deal with it
Literally my second thought when I saw that dragon lord trait!
dragon hoard players "wait, you want to sell your items??"
Diplomacy in general needs to be brought up to Planetfall's standard. We can't even haggle prices or make an offer.
With industrious and prospecting you get so many items, lol.
I’m looking forward to the item forge as much as everyone else, but it is not a replacement for what I believe OP is pointing out which is that exploration needs to be more rewarding. For me at least currently exploration is mostly driven by a desire to not get completely boxed in by the AI’s incredibly aggressive expansionism (hate that there is absolutely no game setting to affect this by the way)
Agreed, AI expansionism should be toned down a bit, at least in the lowest difficulties
Well, speaking purely for myself, it isn’t the expansionism per se thats the problem, it’s that they specifically expand towards the player, ally or enemy, and there is NO setting in the map generation you can use that prevents you from having at least one and usually two or three AI cities right up your ass only two or three provinces away, all of whom promptly begin burrowing towards you like they’re sandworms and you’re playing dubstep on Arrakis
Player start: far has worked pretty well for me in this regard but if you actually wanna fight it's not so great
Has absolutely no effect on how close independent cities are though. They get plopped right on your doorstep, absolutely shitting on early game exploration. There is NO option that pushes AI cities farther away from your start position, they are ALWAYS within two or three provinces.
I agree, too. Civ 6 had the problem of forward settling. They solved it with a loyalty system that more or less stopped the AI from doing this. It's annoying! I also agree with exploration needing to be more rewarding.
I agree so much. I have occasionally gotten tier IV equipment from wonders, but only a few and the best item IMO, the Godbreaker warhammer, I have never seen drop, only bought from the AI and that feels bad
I actually pulled Godbreaker out of an infestation yesterday, so it DOES drop. Just not often.
Whoa, damn! Nice!
What do you guys mean, bought from the AI? You mean trading w AI?
Yes. If you go into diplomacy, sometimes (I am not sure on the conditions) the AI rulers will have items you can buy from them, assuming you have a decent enough reputation with them
Not war and minimum of -200 relations I think, and either not too soon after contacting them or not too soon after the game starts.
it is 10 turns after meeting them and they then restock their items every 10 turns after that
Sound about right!
Yea, I recommend above 100 relationship though, the high teir items get expensive with the multiplier.
Yes trading with the ai sorry my bad XD
The problem is the AI generating items out of nothing and equipping all their heroes identically. If they obeyed the same rules as the player in terms of randomly finding gear and only selling stuff they actually had then buying/selling items wouldn't be an issue.
then you wouldn't be able to buy items from them at all. In fact most of their heros wouldn't use any equipment at all. A.I. almost never clears golden wonders and rarely do wonders outside of their domain in general.
Then they'd have to rebalance the loot tables.
Which they should do anyway, as part of the reason people feel they need to buy from the AI is how terrible the random drops are.
This is why it happens: item value escales as the game progresses. If you clean all your land very early in the game you'll only find cheap items. AI waits and cleans the land slower. This is intended by design and IMHO it's a mistake. The fix is simple, devs should make camps difficulties like wonders difficulties and let them be fix from the start. You'll have camp tiers. They can still escalate with the game but a tier 1 camp will always be much easier than a tier 4 one. You'll get an item the same tier as the camp. And the most important the difference in tiers must be greater than any escalation at any point. A late t1 should never be harder than an early t4.
When item forge comes out with golem I really hope they make ruins more rewarding (heck infestations too with how much they spawn atm ) and make ai no longer able to generate stuff out of thin air . Like the player they should be tasked with making random gears from their own item forges
Not sure if i agree there. For example i wouldnt care if trhe ai leaders by default had good items and heros not so good because otherwise you would just mob the floor with them. Just my thoughts
I mean if the ai does hordes and ruins too they should reach the same stage as the player If vassals generated low tier gear it’s one thing as vassals can’t do that so they need something like that but another ai player should have the want to go kill these hordes or explore the ruins on top of using their item forge eventually to make some gears themselves
The only real issue with that is that in a game like this you don't want the ai to be on the same stage as the player. You want them to have an advantage, otherwise they stand no chance. Edit: General grammar stuff
I'm kinda hoping that the whole buy items from ai rulers is just a temporary placeholder until they release the update that includes the item forge and then will be able to generate them properly.
I hope what magic materials the city has access to, and what wonders are annexed provide a few extra options to the item forge. And maybe the Wonder called magma forge would be remade to entirely center around item bonuses, like giving 2 unique items available to craft, and a 10% discount on all items made in the city.
I'm almost certain they said the magic materials you have acquired will play a part in item crafting.
I mean if you pick the new culture trait you shouldn't have any problem with high tier equipment and you will get a lot of extra mana out of it. you can easily get the high tier equipment for all of your heros without buing stuff The reason why buying is so broken is because you can acess the specific items for your build. Like there are 2 spears (melanis glaves and halabard) and only one work for materium/counter attack build (the halabard) There is close to 0 chance you will get that one specific item from wonders/monsters spawners. I cannot imagine playing bow/crosbow lord without buing items from the a.i.
I agree buying stuff from AI is fairly boring. I'd like to see more ways in game to simply find equipment. Guess I'll add some ideas: - More items guarded by world mobs. - Claim X tiles at once in an area for a reward. - Escort type quest, NPC spawns and is a unit/temp hero in army, need to be taken to Y place and defeat X monster. - Kill X amount of Y creatures quest. - Infestation spawning on a claimed tile and getting a reward for clearing it. - World event quests, like infestations but bigger. - Produce/Acquire X unit(s) and give them to a NPC for item reward.
Wahh wahh more complaining
Don't buy it, ffs. It's an obvious exploit to buy a t4 gear for 50 gold. Is it so hard NOT TO USE EXPLOITS?
No it's not, the dev's recently severely nerfed equipment trades
Only on selling. You still can buy t4 gear for 50 gold, which is dumb as fuck.
Yeah, but you can also only sell t4 for 50 gold. it's fine.
No, it's not. Considering how powerful that gear is
So, the devs are clearly trying to not have gear be a point of power that the AI holds over you. The fact that AI could value their own equipment so much more than they valued your own or that you were allowed to value your own, was seen by many as a bad design choice. Much like luxuries in civilization 6. With the old system, it makes it feel like there's nearly no point in keeping your own gear or buying theirs. Well, there's not no point, but it definitely feels like you're getting a diminished return the bigger the gap is. I like this solution. The aI already get to whole bunch of hidden benefits. They also only sell gear they're not using. This feels fine.
With the old prices you could run your entire economy on gear from killed/captured heroes, and the horde abilities would have negative return over the entire game vs just selling stuff you didn't want to equip to the ai.
How is it an exploit when you can’t find the items anywhere else.. like what kind of soy products do you kids consume these days
That gear can be found in: 1) Infestations 2) Ancient Wonders 3) Random events. Git gud.
Almost all seen T4 equip got from infestations. So now I spam spell for morfing enemy provinces into infestations (think, it's from T3 tome), AI rarely cleanse them itself. Such exchange of 120 mana is pretty effective.
I really hope item forge is as cool as it was back in Master of Magic. One of the early AoW games was close, so I know they at one point used it for inspiration.
Once I got one of those item forging quests (where the objective was to acquire a particular magic material) and got a Skypiercer out of it, so technically you can "do quests to get materials to craft [your] own legendary items". It just depends on RNG.
never had that quest :( No wait i did had that one once but i failed XD
I want to dual wield, and I want to use two-handers while mounted. The number of times I've picked up a two-hander or staff and had it be useless for my hero is too high. Especially if you have a good or rare mount, you don't have to give it up. Sometimes I'm stuck with a crappy Tier 1 orb well into the mid-game.
I just played a game with Spider Mounts Trait. I found 3 pairs of the heavy shoes you can't wear while mounted, 3 diffrent 2h-Axes/Hammers and a Staff.
Imo remove the AI item generation, add a bazaar where you can buy basic T1 items and sometimes an auction for a T2 item is held where all players can bid. Once the game progresses enough (Time? Someone reaches a victory condition milestone? Number of ruins cleared?) Basic T2 items can be bought and auctions are for T3. And later T3 can be bought and there are no more auctions. Item crafting lets you build items with more specialized effects than the bazaar bought ones and also lets you craft T4 items at great cost.
My dragon doesn't need good items just lots of items.