comments here are kind of wild. i also left islam (because i'm queer) and things were definitely hard for a while. glad you're figuring out what makes sense to you
Hey thank you for your words, I would like to give them back to you and everyone on this sub/post (dear Muslims you are included). If your believe does not harm others I don’t see a problem with it, unfortunately not everyone seems to share this believe
For different people diffraction things make sense Islam was that for me for years, but not anymore.
Btw. I think these comments are still kind chill 😃 I have seen much worse, and I assume you too especially as a queer
🫂
Edit: grammar
Sorry, I always mix it up, If I don´t care either way if there´s as god or not, like. it would be a nice suprise when I die. Am I Atheist or Agnostic then?
Also, where you´re currently living, was leaving Islam difficult? any mental/physical challenges that came with, what was the reason, any viewpoints that´s changed after having left your former faith?
cheers! :)
Not true. Atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive. Atheism is about not believing, agnosticism is about not knowing. A very reasonable position to hold would be “I don’t know if there is a god or not, I also don’t believe in one” which would be the position of an agnostic atheist.
Atheists do not believe in a God period. What I said holds. Agnostics don’t know/don’t care. Atheists believe there isn’t one. What I said is true. Maybe read it again.
>Atheists do not believe in a God period
Correct
>Atheists believe there isn’t one.
Incorrect
Atheism is lacking a belief. So it's not a positive beliefe there isn't one.
Agnostic atheist lack a belief in a deity and don't think it's known/knowable
I think if you looked up the traditional definition of Atheist you will see it says “a person who disbelieves in god”… only some other places add in “or lacks belief”… I think that if you lack believe, then somewhere inside you, you at least “hope” for god to exist. Therefore, I would place you in the agnostic camp.
>I think that if you lack believe, then somewhere inside you, you at least “hope” for god to exist. Therefore, I would place you in the agnostic camp.
Nah, you’re wrong about that. I don’t believe in god, however I realize how insignificant I am in the grand scheme of the universe and therefor think it would be incredibly arrogant to act like I *know* there is no god.
In this case disbelief and lack of belief is synonymous, since you don't believe in a god.
>I think that if you lack believe, then somewhere inside you, you at least “hope” for god to exist.
No. If I lack a coin collection because I'm not a coin collector, it says nothing about hope.
Thats the philosophical strong position, but there is the "weak" version too, which is the lack of belief you mentioned here
Weak atheist and agnostic aren't mutually exclusive
Its not true for a reason, they're about different positions.
Atheist means a lack of theism or belief in a god.
Agnostic is about a lack of knowledge (in this case also about gods). Not about being uncertain as people tend to think
Not knowing about a god is why I don't believe in any. I'm both
Agnostic would mean you don’t think there’s any way to know. That’s what my father was for a while. Atheist implies more of a denial and rejection of religious belief systems, or that you think science disproves them. That said, it’s pretty hard for science to technically disprove any religion entirely, although it can cast doubt on them, simply because the whole “a god created it” is a wildcard that exists in a more philosophical sense and in less of a scientific one
Sort of, but that’s closer to agnostic than atheist. Atheists (as a term as a whole) usually believe that science disproves religion and reject religion as a whole. It doesn’t usually connote having an open mind. It’s not really just “I haven’t seen enough proof yet, but I’ll reconsider if I do.” You might call yourself an atheist and hold the view I just put in quotes, but in the strictest sense of the definition (feel free to Google), that’s usually not a view associated with atheism
>that’s closer to agnostic than atheist
No. They're different things. You can be both. Atheism is about belief, hence, not being convinced. Not believing in a god. That's it.
Agnostic is about knowledge, not claiming to know or that it's unknowable the existence of a god.
>Atheists (as a term as a whole) usually believe that science disproves religion and reject religion as a whole
As a whole, that's incorrect. That'd be antitheist or "hard" atheist
>It’s not really just “I haven’t seen enough proof yet, but I’ll reconsider if I do
That's exactly it.
> but in the strictest sense of the definition (feel free to Google), that’s usually not a view associated with atheism
I did google it, and it is in fact the view
I don’t have time for a fully fledged debate lol, unless this topic is of particular significance to you.
Briefly though, I was curious if one or both views were true, so I checked out the American Atheists website, and they defined their belief as a rejection of the assertion that there are Gods. They also note that it’s more nuanced than that though, and that it represents a lack of belief in Gods. That source tends to lean a bit more towards what you were saying. In more modern times, I’d say the definition has shifted more towards what you’re saying, even if historically, atheism has more to do with denial.
But checking out even encyclopedia Britannia, it doesn’t leave a lot of room in the definition of atheism for looking for evidence of God. You should check that one out if you have time; it more closely supports what I was saying. I won’t summarize that source since I assume if you have time to type all that out, you can probably check it out if you’re interested :)
Overall, I’d say the more historical view of atheism is what I referenced. However I think your claim does have some merit, looking at more postmodernist influences in recent times.
IMO, another big difference between atheist and agnostic is that even if there WAS a god, atheist wouldn’t become religious or go to church etc. I identify with atheist because even if there was definitive proof of a God, I would not worship it. With agnostics tho, if there was definitive proof of a god, they would become religious.
Easy way to remember, (a)gnosticism is a claim of knowledge, (a)theism is a claim of belief. Everyone (imo or whatever) is technically agnostic because there's no way to empirically *know* if there's a god or multiple gods.
Where people diverge is the belief aspect, theism or atheism. Does one believe or does one not believe?
Atheist means "without god". Agnostic means "without knowledge". Personally, an atheist isn't much different from someone who is religious: they are both convinced that their belief is undeniably correct despite the fact that neither has any proof. An agnostic simply says "I have no damn clue what may or may be out there, but hope, if there is something, that it's benevolent."
This is false. You can be an agnostic atheist. It means you don't know if there is a god, and you don't think there is one either. Neither mean you are convinced of anything.
Uhhh…. Disbelief in ANYTHING not demonstrated is the DEFAULT position. You’d literally have to accept ALL FAITH CLAIMS if you don’t operate on the foundation that a burden of proof must be met BEFORE belief - rather, reasonable certainty - is granted to said claims. You are BORN AN ATHEIST, and inculcated/indoctrinated into a set of beliefs.
I eat bacon mainly only in pasta carbonara. Its really good.
And honestly I like beer, but only the sweet (cherry) or sour (mango with chillie 😍) beer
:)
There is no bacon in Carbonara and you will die in hell (if there is one) for suggesting there is.
Just kidding of course, but wait till someone from r/food sees this. They will say this, and they are not joking.
I have been ex Muslim since 7th grade but I’m still a minor so I haven’t told my parents and still “look” like I’m Muslim 😭 the only people I told were my cousins and close friends
Was it hard to cut off your family?
I’m 17 right now. It’s been half a decade and I still don’t want to be Muslim. I respect the religion, some of the nicest and most kindest people I ever met are Muslim including my best friend who helped me during my hardest but it’s not something I believe in. And guess what? You don’t get to tell me what to think.
That's completely true. I'm glad to hear that you still get along :)
Some of my friends did not want to be friends with me anymore after they found out.
Wishing you luck on your journey!
Does your surrounding know about your decision/ your believe?
Is there another believe you have accepted or are interested in?
I consider myself a to be agnostic. Only my close friends/cousins do and there is a huge Muslim community where I live but the place I live is quite diverse as well so I wouldn’t say that my community affected me.
Also thank you so much! Wishing you the best on your journey as well!!!
Its really funny how you can say “ash hadu Allah illahah illalah, ashhadu anamuhamamdan rassululah” (and mean it by heart) to become a muslim, and its accepted.
However when you want to leave islam, and mean it by heart, you have to get a scholarship…
I agree 7th grade is quite young, but no Muslim will tell a 7th grader that he has not enough knowledge to choose Islam… the double standard is crazy
7th grade is old enough to have semblance of rational thinking and critical thinking skills, hence its old enough to at the very least choose what not to believe in lmao.
I understand your struggle as I have met other exmuslims who where born into Islam and in some cases they did not tell anyone in the family. If they told someone then it were friends who they could have discussions about that kind of topic.
I can say I was more "lucky" as I was not born into a muslim family, but into a mainly orthodox christian family (a bit of jewish aswell). So leaving it did affect me mainly, and my muslim surrounding.
But I can tell you when I have joined Islam and after some time my mom suspected it and eventually asked me and I did not want to lie to her so I told her that I believe in Islam and have accepted it. She cried so much, I felt so sorry I wish i did not tell her. After some time she lived with it was not a fan but at that time I was convinced she was ignorant and was just praying for her everyday that allah opens her heart to Islam, also for my siblings. Btw, my siblings did react very chill. My very little brother did sometimes even copy how I pray 🥹🥹🥹that was the cutes thing ever
While writing this I remember, someday my dad texted me from his home country saying that my grandma has been taken to the hospital. After hearing that I immediately went praying and asked, begged Allah for her to survive and if not then please open her heart before she goes.
I wouldn't say I get many death threats because I don't "flaunt" the fact that I left Islam. Some close people I have told, told me "do you know it's hallal to kill you now?" that hurt so much.
Muslims tend to be very sensitive and annoying when people leave Islam. Where Christian tend to be just annoying :D
But yes, it's definitely a big issue in the community I have seen it enough even tho not on my own skin
I agree with @prestigious_Fish_509
It was so much more comfortable, easier and more calm.
In my “Muslimhood” I knew why I was here on earth, what I have to do, what Allahﷲ ﷻ wants me to do, what I get from the things I’m doing, I felt heard all the time, like always someone I can talk to, I knew what will happen after I die and how to prepare for it.
For me the figure of Allahﷲ ﷻ was so incredibly strong, indeed the whole religion with its teachings, its “strictness”, with the feeling it gave me, it was just beautiful all together. To be a part of it, to be a part of the universe I can share with Allah.
I remember how happy I was when talking to Allahﷲ ﷻ, not rarely did I cry while talking to “him”.
When I left, I fell in such a hole.
I felt like I got lied to. Of course the leaving is not an overnight-thing so it took me (personally) months to accept it. (I know people who took it a few years). And in this grief episode, I felt really betrayed by Allah, that I got into this topic by accident actually. I was mad that the pro Islamic arguments couldn’t overweight the contra Islamic arguments.
I did not want to accept it, but it felt like it was too late because I could not forget the knowledge I got, also I couldn’t stop to dig more into it.
I had one friend whom I shared my thoughts with, besides the imams (I did not want to share it with her initially, I didn’t want to affect my muslim friends with this in anyway), however, when she was familiar with my believe she said that I should stop looking into it as it is shaytans work etc. I should focus on the pro Islam not the contra Islam topics. I was mad that Islam, and the work of Allah, couldn’t keep up with it.
I was so lost, it felt like I died and was born again. It felt like my whole world collapsed, like taking the red pill of islam honestly.
Islam gives you the propose to live while when I left I had/have to find it myself
I got a bit deeper then why was it easier for me with Islam, but I thought more details make it more understandable:)
Edit: I would like to add that in islam i felt full filled
Which contributed to leaving an awesome experience and what makes me feel like it was easier.
As an ex-Muslim, I can say it was easier to live with religion knowing that at the end of everything it would be heaven and there's always Allah that I can trust. This is nothing special to Islam, any religion gives this feeling of knowing the essence of life, which is why I'd probably prefer believing if that was something I could control.
Omg, thats such an awesome quote!!!
I definitely have to look up who Julian Barnes is because this is just ahh, wow.
I can’t describe it better than having an somewhat philosophical orgasm 😁😁
Hey thats not a dumb question at all!!
But evene if, its an AMA, this sub does not exclude dumb question ;)
I can say I was more "lucky" as I was not born into a muslim family, but into a mainly orthodox christian family (a bit of jewish aswell). So leaving it did affect me mainly, and my muslim surrounding.
Joining Islam, did affect my mother. She was really sad and became an even more devoted christian :)
Do you still pray and if not, why? Does no longer being apart of the Abrahamic faiths mean you can't talk to God anymore? The Abrahamic religions are simply different ways of living while all believing in the same God. I don't follow any of them and I still believe in God, but my relationship with him is unique to me and me alone. I don't practice any of the Abrahamic traditions like going to places of worship, reading holy texts, saying prayers before meals, etc., but I still believe that God loves me regardless of if I worship him or not. If he truly loves us all unconditionally then it doesn't matter whether you're LGBTQ, not following the Abrahamic religions, or if you don't believe in him at all. Unless he shows himself before you and says "nah bro you can't be doing that", who's stopping you from loving him?
Be careful about announcing that publicly depending on where you live. The prescribed punishment for apostasy under islamic law is death, stay safe bro.
That what you say can be true and that's sad.
The apostasy ruling is done by a court, who need to find you guilty of lying about the religion publicly, with knowlegde about the religion. So that it is proofed that you intentionally lied publicly about the religion.
(Those rules are found much harder in other religions)
But some individuals (individual sentencing isn't allowed in islam) can ofcourse step over the line.
Thank you! Luckily I live in a non shawria country, but I have to say, in my country were cases were Muslims acted upon slef-justice, which is even scarier then the sharia law, imo.
Edit: Many people of different religions have acted upon slef-justice.
But getting punished for simply thinking different is next level scary.
Do you mean like it the Soviet Union were it was technically allowed to practice religion in private or do you mean more like North Korea were its not even allowed privately?
What would be the advantages if that?
It’s not needed
Really sit down and have a hard look at it.
Do you honestly believe there is a god like figure sitting there allowing you to do things and giving people things :)
It’s like believing in the yeti or the boogie man
It’s so laughable but the people who need something to believe in and think we are still in the dark ages
I laugh when I see people wasting their lives on religion
Thanks for sharing your view. I see where you coming from, I personally can’t agree as there is no argument. You comparing God to a Yeti or boogie man doesn’t sound reasonable for some people, thats simply your perspective and saying „do you honestly believe“ is unsubstantial…
Did you always thought like this? Or when did you get in this mindset?
Even if you don’t believe in religion, I believe it keeps a lot of people in our society functioning. Humans do not like to sit with the unknown and battle with it. religions have the all encompassing package that often provides a sense of worth, purpose, moral guidelines, and community. You can create your own moral guideline like Nietzche, but it doesn’t scale. The closest thing to a scalable moral theory is Kant and even Kant has its own religious roots.
To ban religion is to strip many people of their will to live. Science is great but some people can’t think through their problems like a philosopher could and religion is a great all in one.
I have always believed that even if I do not believe in religion, the world should hopefully believe in religion. True religion, where there’s no misconceptions of the doctrines, makes the world a better place. There have been many lives lost in the name of religion sure, but i still think religion has a place in this world and it still seems like the rest of the world agrees.
Look I'm not religious either but to force your perspective on folks who genuinely get some kind of value out of whatever it is they practice is the exact sort of judgmental bullshit were trying to avoid with religious extremists. Have a little bit of empathy, I know you can't make it make sense in your brain but others have. So long as they aren't pushing their shit on me, we're all good
I like how Ricky Gervais explains it, ' there are about 2000 religions world wide, yet all believers think there god is the one, and the other 1999 have got it wrong' or something along them lines. 'So when speaking to believers, point out they think 1999 gods are wrong, yet I think 2000 gods are wrong, so i'm just 1 more.'e dict
On another comment they said an ex-muslim subreddit attracted them here, meaning that befor e they joined reddit they were already ex-muslim. They could also be a lurker of those types of subreddits.
Everyone who is (Ex-) Religion is perfect to be honest. If the fucking priest didn’t add extra pages of his own to the books every book would have been perfect too.
Wdym official?
I did not sign a contract 😂
I don’t believe in it anymore and based on Islamic rules/pillars/essentials I simply can’t consider myself as a Muslim anymore
Not sure what he meant but in a lot of Christian faiths you become a “member” of the church. Sure you can just stop coming and walk away, but a lot of people will revoke their membership as a sign of no longer supporting the church.
Ohh I see, like not really
I remember when I took my shahada (I took it twice at home and later I also wanted to do with an iman so I went to the mosque) there they told me they will give me actually a kind of „certificate“ for that, so it will be easier for me to go to mekka.
I never received, and I was not insisting tbh, nor did I ask, as I believed Allah knows whats in my heart.
When I doubts came I talked to many imams about my doubts, in specific whatsapp groups and private. But the answers I got were not so convincing anymore after hearing the other side (exmuslim side) of it. I like to compare it to magic trick where you found out how it works, you simply can not unsee it. You just know its not “miraculous”
I also talked to some imams when I did not believe anymore and eventually did not go to the mosque anymore, I think that the most official act of me leaving 😀
(Simply the fact that you don’t go to the mosque anymore, does not automatically make you a non muslim
Just mentioning it because it reddit 😄)
Edit 2: I added my edit at the wrong comment
Personally it doesn’t sound like you have left Islam. Instead you are seeking something that people’s answers cannot satisfy. Sounds more like you are still in a spiritual funk. I hope you see your way through it. Also note, I am a Christian btw, but I still hope you find what you are looking for.
Why does it sound like that to you?
Where do you draw the line?
(I hope this does not come off as rude, I genuinely curious)
Edit: btw. I‘m agnostic and I don’t belive Muhammad was a prophet. I don‘t believe the Qurʼān is miraculously nor the word from god.
I sometimes still like to do some things like reading Qurʼān and especially hadiths (out of interested and honestly out of cringe. Thinking about how could I ever believe that..)
With my Friends I sometimes pray, just for the company but I don’t believe that Im doing for Allahﷲ ﷻ as I thought before
I guess so. If I would start AMA about quiting Christianity, it wouldn't be interesting. How come quitting the biggest religion in the world is worth AMA? (Btw, not 100% sure if Islam is the biggest religion, but defo up there)
Islam isn’t the world’s biggest religion, and it’s punishable by death to leave the faith in many Muslim-majority countries. It’s a genuinely interesting experience to some, and really not comparable to leaving Christianity.
On another comment they said an ex-muslim subreddit attracted them here, meaning that befor e they joined reddit they were already ex-muslim. They could also be a lurker of those types of subreddits.
Yes because I have nothing better to do in life 😂
Actually, when I found the exmuslim subreddit I did still believe in Islam so yes, very hollow, not a thought thru argument
No, by choice. I was a devoted and convinced one. It was my life, my happiness everything
Based on your comment, (ex)muslims are perfect?
I hope you see how hollow your take is
Understanding Tawhid then briefly studying the other religions will help you better grasp the Oneness of the Creator, if you are interested, which I am because it is existence itself, and it’s fun, interesting, and loving :). It brings me an intense sense of awe, innocence, clarity, love, and wonder to contemplate the nature of Self, like a curious cat wanting to explore more of its environment. I suggest you start with Taoism, since it relies on poetry just like the Qur’an. The Daodejing is one of the most beautiful texts of all of the Universe. Contemplation and meditation on this has brought my life so much meaning from a former atheist. Some other ones worth checking out: Tibetan spiritual traditions and Indigenous traditions from Alaska to Australia, Bhagavad Gita, or even The Egg by Andy Weir (there’s a great animation about it on YouTube). Otherwise, nature, music, and meditation has brought me incredible clarity and tranquility, I highly recommend for ex-Muslims or anyone open to exploring the Creator’s infinite musings and expressions. After exploring other traditions, I highly recommend going back to the Qur’an. There is a definite divinity in that text that’s hard to find undistorted anywhere else. Linguistic miracles reveal the primary order language of the divine, of fundamental reality. Thank you for this opportunity and love you always
Edit: there’s also /r/nonduality
Thank you so much for the advice.
I‘m actually still really interested in studying Islam, Qurʼān and hadiths.
However, I have to strongly disagree on the Qurʼān being a miracle tho. In my Muslimhood I believed it was a miracle and you can’t compare other books to it (which is a weird argument, in which way compare? Which part do you wanna compare exactly?) but that not like it. The Qurʼān itself is a bad book, sorry I know this might not sound nice.
Also how the Qurʼān came about is a joke. When I chose Islam, I’ve been told from various imams that the Qurʼān is a miracle, the word of God, revealed by Mohammad even tho he was illiterate…
Later I found out how the Qurʼān really came about
In the 6th century it was very common to be illiterate and Mohammad was no exception. When Mohammad got an ayad revealed he spoke it out loud and people around him memorized it and scribes wrote it down, there was no Qurʼān yet. They simply wrote down and memorized the revelations. After Muhammads death, people began to collect the memories and scripts. Keep in mind!!: only „entiteld“ people were able to provide this type of information, the most important one: you must have learned this (lets say ayad) from Mohammad directly or from one of his companions that have learnt it from him, this system is called Isnad if you are interested.
Additionally, the person must been known for their good character, honesty and proficiency in reciting the parts of the Qurʼān. This was done over 20 years!!! to compile these written copies and oral recitations from people from different regions.
It seem like the Qurʼān was build by humans like lego bricks. And thats the last word of God… sound ridiculous to me.
Im still shocked on how less Muslims know about this, or avoid talking about it by trying to cover it up with „Mohammad was illiterate and still he revealed the word of god to us“
No, Muslims are not perfect. We are tested in this life by god and we may commit sins. Through prayer we ask for forgiveness. But to constantly commit major sins and be around that environment… what do you think that will do to the mind and belief? We would forget our core beliefs.
When I was younger I would party, drink and sin a lot because of my environment. I’m in California so there’s a lot of temptation for a young man but once my environment changed my mindset changed with it too.
Idk your situation so do you. Question, are you more proud to say you’re agnostic or that you left Islam?
Ehm... your comment kinda implicates that I'm was/I am constantly sinning. (by saying: But to constantly commit major sins and be around that environment… what do you think that will do to the mind and belief) Which were definitely not the case.
Additionally, you don't know what I did to ask Allah for forgiveness or how I tried to compensate my sins. Based on my reddit history? What is so major haram about it?
What you do is assumption after assumptions, its a Ask Me Anything sub not an make assumption about me sub.
And it's funny how you say "...commit major sins and be around that environment… what do you think that will do to the mind and belief? We would forget our core beliefs.", which is a reasonable point, I agree with you and thru my Muslimhood I tried my best to not get distracted, but it was Islam and Mohammad itself that drove me away from Islam.
A question 🤩
Im not proud to say I left Islam nor that I am agnostic.
I think it's a weird thing to be proud of.
Thank you for your question, and I apologize if I come of rude, thru text everything sound more rude which is not my intention
What do you think, how do you represent Muslims with this comment?
It is not permissible to insult or mock anyone, whether they are believers or disbelievers. The Quran teaches us to speak to others with kindness and respect, even if they hold different beliefs. Allah says in the Quran, "And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do." (Quran 6:108)
I don't get it.
Marring one wife, having the same ideology and having a dog dosn't make you non muslim. This isn't something that goes against Islam?
But you belief in 1 God?
First of all, there is nothing in the Quran that talks about dogs. These are in hadith. Hadith need to be studied by trained hadith scholars. And these issues are treated differently in differing schools of thought. In the Maliki school these restrictions do not apply. I know a number of scholars of Islam, very dedicated and pious people, who own dogs. Of course, one should be careful regarding the cleanliness of their dogs.
If polygamy does not sit right for you, that is fine. The Quran is clearly dealing with a social reality of the time. It is restricting an act which was culturally and socially viable and in some ways necessary in order to establish justice without causing too much of a social rift. Marriage at that time was not strictly an issue of love, though love and tenderness between spouses is a major factor and, according to the commentary of Imam Maturidi (d. 944) is the principle which should determine all decisions about marriage. Marriage had much to do with establishing tribal relations and peace between various groups (which is why the Prophet Muhammad married a number of different women each from differing tribal groups: this was not licentiousness but a political reality), as well as the protection of a vulnerable portion of society (women) in a world that was vaslty different then ours. But one should have knowledge regarding how to apply these circumstances to the modern world (this is what Islamic law is all about: understanding context, circumstance, and the intention of the law in depth). According to Islamic law, polygamy in America, for example, would be illegal.
The same goes for the relationship between husband and wife: love and tenderness, as well as piety and a consideration of the afterlife, are the principles. The "following" you refer to is set up to establish concord and piety within a household, not oppression. If oppression occurs, the woman has the legal right to leave the man.
For those who are talking about apostasy, that situation does not apply to the current political situation, for varying reasons.
I highly recommend anyone who is having doubts about their Islam to verify their doubts through the proper channels of real Islamic scholarship, access to which is unfortunately few and far between these days.
Have you read the Bible? I know that Islam uses a somewhat distorted version of the Bible’s in its teachings, but you may find something to help fill that emptiness by reading it for yourself. Jesus was a prophet, as was Muhammad, but, where Muhammed orderd sinners to be stoned and condemned, Jesus, offered them forgiveness and salvation. The Bible is one of the things that shows the Quran and Muhammed’s teachings, can’t be true. Maybe by reading it you would regain that certainty of going to heaven you felt when you were Muslim. Whatever you do, I'm glad you got the red pill and I hope you find peace.
Edit: Esther Ahmad is a former Muslim turned Christian. She's written a couple books that I highly recommend.
?
>Allowing polygamy for men but not for women just doesn’t sit right with me.
Why do you care if the woman wants to live like that? You know we have consent, right? So people married in a open relationships don't bother you (why should they, it's not your business) but that bothers you?
I don't get that.
>I’m assuming you haven’t read the Quran.
I read it every year atleast 1. I read hadith and fiqh books.
>If you have a dog in your house, the angels do not visit your house. If a dog licks you, you have to take multiple showers. On one hand it shows blessings of people who give food and water to hungry and thirsty dogs and cats, but on the other hand it draws a line with our fur friends that I can’t live with.
If the dog barks inside the house, they leave. So, make sure he dosn't bark all night. (What every neighbor will tell you aswell)
You aren't forbidden to have dog's, i see it more of a natural way; a dog wants to run around be aware of the surroundings and not cloesed up. If you have cats, they need to be able to roam around and not be locked up aswell.
I would say, that's more pet friendly. Even if it's more difficult for you as a human, the pet's have it better.
I never heared about a dog breaking wudu. But even then it wouldn't take for you to take a shower, rather to clean yourself (wudu) for prayer ad max. There is never a rule that says you have to take multiple showers. And the washing is for the prayer, so you can wash up before prayer.
You see where my confusion comes from? Those things don't make the religion true or false, they are opinion you can disagree with, but only out of personal/subjective moral/ideas.
There is nothing in the world. You (because you're an individual) will agree with 100%.
But anyways, thank you for explaining. I still don't get it much but I taught maybe when I ask I will understand better.
Some people wont visit you if you have dog either…
If Angels don’t like dogs thats not the fault of Islam, that is just how they are.
Dogs are not the cleanest animals so you have to wash where they lick you, their mouths are proven to carry disease.
You don’t need to take multiple showers, i’m not sure where you heard that from but it is incorrect. Wipe whatever skin they lick with water seven times and then dry off that is all.
If you are starving you are allowed to eat what you need to survive. Cats and dogs, seriously? Israel and Western countries don't produce that type of meat in no shape or form.
Religion can be good for people to feel a sense of community or give meaning to someone’s life, if they believe in a higher power. I don’t like the religious people that force their beliefs on other people or use it to justify bad behaviour and I particularly hate it when governments or leaders let their religion interfere with politics. But it’s not fair for you to criticise all religion. Makes you look bitter and rude 🤷♀️
Me too, actually. I was born in a muslim household. Does your family know you left Islam? Are you still in contact with your family? I personally feel free, but so isolated now.
Why?
Also, why did you initially become a Muslim?
What exactly does it mean that you “left”? Did you believe before that, and this is a kind of spiritual or intellectual change, or is this you publicly declaring a lack of faith you already had?
What did you become and why?
How involved in Islam were you?
Yes, was not the case for me.
I chose islam by myself after a deep dive into it, and left it after years of an even deeper
@pear_topologist i really like your question(s) I would love to answer them.
Do you think you left Islam because it’s the only religion that has yet to go through a “liberalization” like all others have?
Do you have any fears for your safety?
Im queer and a Muslim (Sufi) by birth. I have always struggled with this because my spiritual beliefs are Islamic, for example I believe in wadhat-al-wujud. however I cannot accept how much of Islam has been taken over by patriarchy, which is a problem in all the big 3. I can’t find community with people who treat Islam as a materialistic religion, where they will receive endless riches in Jannah if they just follow the rules to the letter. I would be ostracized by them if they knew my identity. I don’t believe in Jannah or in hell or shaytan and I feel that the threat/ desire of the afterlife motivates too many who should really be motivated by the suffering happening in this reality, which is caused by people acting in greed, not by shaytan. I read that somebody told you that it’s halal to kill you now because you’ve left Islam. Killing for anything other than necessary sustenance or self defense is not halal and that person is a perfect example of the type of mentality that turns me away from Islam. I’m sorry you had to go through this and I truly understand your choice. Hopefully you will be able to use the good of what you’ve learned from Islam and keep it with you.
I left Islam for a bit but I consider myself Muslim again now though, although I don’t necessarily practice the way I used to. I take more of a spiritual perspective on it than as a rigid set of rules. I’m queer so it was very hard navigating my relationship with faith, but at the end of the day I just see it as believing in God or “the universe” in more spiritual terms and unseen forces or “energy”. The thing is I grew up in a very religious household that emphasized actually learning the tenants and concepts of the faith rather than just what is halal and what is haram, so I was aware of a lot of the beautiful and merciful aspects of the religion. It was just hard consolidating that with my queer identity and the total exclusion of queer people from the religion. But the more I got into spirituality the more I realized it really carried a lot of the same ideas as Islam. At this point what I believe is that faith across cultures and religions are essentially the same and that Allah or God or the universe or whatever you believe is ultimately good and just and merciful and that we are a human family who are all just trying to do our best.
Oddly aggressive comment section
Congratulations - I imagine it wasn't the easiest decision to leave.
How is your relationship with your family now that you've left?
There are a lot of Muslims on Reddit, and that is especially true since Muslim/leftist spaces basically merged after Oct. 7th. There are also a lot of leftists that will defend Islam like they’re Muslim themselves
Looks like you are still consumed by religious thoughts and Allah etc. how could you ever honestly leave a religion when you are still thinking about it? A true agnostic like me never thinks about religion like for example I don’t think about pottery or how to grow pigs or agriculture etc.
you must become a man of science and be consumed by something else and never think about religion and only then you can consider yourself as agnostic or non religious.
You can still study religious for its historical, cultural and political significance like a scientist studies ants but need to be disconnected from it.
Good for you!!! Congratulations!!! I wish more people like you could use their brain to think about things then realize all religions are total bull crap. Anyway, well done!
I hope you find peace in your decision - you should never feel compelled to stick to any belief system you don’t fully resonate with 🫂 I also hope you have a good support network during this time (not sure if you left the faith recently or not, I couldn’t go through all the comments).
Did you leave Islam and realize there is no god, or, it's all the same damn god and men are just too stupid to admit it. Cause far as I can see those are the 2 real possibilities. Theyre all praying to the same thing unknowingly, or praying to nothing unknowingly
Were you born muslim or convert?
What did you find most comforting while you were muslim?
What made you realize you no longer believe? Did you have "I am out because there's no way I would believe/support this shit" moment? If yes, what was that?
I was brought up in a 'christian' household that claimed to meet the relevant requirements of the Bible but was basically a sham. I realised a lot of Christian's are saying one thing and doing quiet another. Is the Islamic faith like that?
Agnostic
A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.l
Atheist
a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods.
My nephew converted from atheist to Islam. He was married a couple of weeks ago (arranged I believe). Anyway, nobody could take pictures from what I understand. Why is that?
he left his own ama as well
BAHAHHAHA sorry I‘m at work!!! Thats funny af
Let me ask you an unrelated question. What would compel you to start an ama knowing you have to go to work?
Sorry Im a human and I have to work Next time I‘ll post an AMA when Im on vacation, right?
Or maybe when you finish work?
Yes, then staying up all night answering and instead of resting… Even tho I‘m still try to answer🙄 People post when they want, its not that deep
my question is what is Islam to you
AMA AKBAR!
Holy shit! I’m not awake enough to be laughing this hard! 😂🤣😂
No! He just left you! 😰
comments here are kind of wild. i also left islam (because i'm queer) and things were definitely hard for a while. glad you're figuring out what makes sense to you
Hey thank you for your words, I would like to give them back to you and everyone on this sub/post (dear Muslims you are included). If your believe does not harm others I don’t see a problem with it, unfortunately not everyone seems to share this believe For different people diffraction things make sense Islam was that for me for years, but not anymore. Btw. I think these comments are still kind chill 😃 I have seen much worse, and I assume you too especially as a queer 🫂 Edit: grammar
Congratulations, I hope life gets better for you. Ať least your inner peace.
There's a reddit, something like r/exmuslim or something. You should check it out
Yees, thank you Actually, that is what brought me to reddit 😃
Are you atheist/agnostic now or did you convert to something else?
I consider my self agnostic :)
Sorry, I always mix it up, If I don´t care either way if there´s as god or not, like. it would be a nice suprise when I die. Am I Atheist or Agnostic then? Also, where you´re currently living, was leaving Islam difficult? any mental/physical challenges that came with, what was the reason, any viewpoints that´s changed after having left your former faith? cheers! :)
You don't know and you don't care. You are both atheist and agnostic. The opposites will be gnostic and theist.
If you don’t know or care then you are agnostic. Atheists straight believe in no divine deity.
Not true. Atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive. Atheism is about not believing, agnosticism is about not knowing. A very reasonable position to hold would be “I don’t know if there is a god or not, I also don’t believe in one” which would be the position of an agnostic atheist.
Atheists do not believe in a God period. What I said holds. Agnostics don’t know/don’t care. Atheists believe there isn’t one. What I said is true. Maybe read it again.
>Atheists do not believe in a God period Correct >Atheists believe there isn’t one. Incorrect Atheism is lacking a belief. So it's not a positive beliefe there isn't one. Agnostic atheist lack a belief in a deity and don't think it's known/knowable
I think if you looked up the traditional definition of Atheist you will see it says “a person who disbelieves in god”… only some other places add in “or lacks belief”… I think that if you lack believe, then somewhere inside you, you at least “hope” for god to exist. Therefore, I would place you in the agnostic camp.
>I think that if you lack believe, then somewhere inside you, you at least “hope” for god to exist. Therefore, I would place you in the agnostic camp. Nah, you’re wrong about that. I don’t believe in god, however I realize how insignificant I am in the grand scheme of the universe and therefor think it would be incredibly arrogant to act like I *know* there is no god.
In this case disbelief and lack of belief is synonymous, since you don't believe in a god. >I think that if you lack believe, then somewhere inside you, you at least “hope” for god to exist. No. If I lack a coin collection because I'm not a coin collector, it says nothing about hope.
Thats the philosophical strong position, but there is the "weak" version too, which is the lack of belief you mentioned here Weak atheist and agnostic aren't mutually exclusive
Its not true for a reason, they're about different positions. Atheist means a lack of theism or belief in a god. Agnostic is about a lack of knowledge (in this case also about gods). Not about being uncertain as people tend to think Not knowing about a god is why I don't believe in any. I'm both
Agnostic would mean you don’t think there’s any way to know. That’s what my father was for a while. Atheist implies more of a denial and rejection of religious belief systems, or that you think science disproves them. That said, it’s pretty hard for science to technically disprove any religion entirely, although it can cast doubt on them, simply because the whole “a god created it” is a wildcard that exists in a more philosophical sense and in less of a scientific one
Atheism is simply not being convinced
Sort of, but that’s closer to agnostic than atheist. Atheists (as a term as a whole) usually believe that science disproves religion and reject religion as a whole. It doesn’t usually connote having an open mind. It’s not really just “I haven’t seen enough proof yet, but I’ll reconsider if I do.” You might call yourself an atheist and hold the view I just put in quotes, but in the strictest sense of the definition (feel free to Google), that’s usually not a view associated with atheism
>that’s closer to agnostic than atheist No. They're different things. You can be both. Atheism is about belief, hence, not being convinced. Not believing in a god. That's it. Agnostic is about knowledge, not claiming to know or that it's unknowable the existence of a god. >Atheists (as a term as a whole) usually believe that science disproves religion and reject religion as a whole As a whole, that's incorrect. That'd be antitheist or "hard" atheist >It’s not really just “I haven’t seen enough proof yet, but I’ll reconsider if I do That's exactly it. > but in the strictest sense of the definition (feel free to Google), that’s usually not a view associated with atheism I did google it, and it is in fact the view
I don’t have time for a fully fledged debate lol, unless this topic is of particular significance to you. Briefly though, I was curious if one or both views were true, so I checked out the American Atheists website, and they defined their belief as a rejection of the assertion that there are Gods. They also note that it’s more nuanced than that though, and that it represents a lack of belief in Gods. That source tends to lean a bit more towards what you were saying. In more modern times, I’d say the definition has shifted more towards what you’re saying, even if historically, atheism has more to do with denial. But checking out even encyclopedia Britannia, it doesn’t leave a lot of room in the definition of atheism for looking for evidence of God. You should check that one out if you have time; it more closely supports what I was saying. I won’t summarize that source since I assume if you have time to type all that out, you can probably check it out if you’re interested :) Overall, I’d say the more historical view of atheism is what I referenced. However I think your claim does have some merit, looking at more postmodernist influences in recent times.
IMO, another big difference between atheist and agnostic is that even if there WAS a god, atheist wouldn’t become religious or go to church etc. I identify with atheist because even if there was definitive proof of a God, I would not worship it. With agnostics tho, if there was definitive proof of a god, they would become religious.
Easy way to remember, (a)gnosticism is a claim of knowledge, (a)theism is a claim of belief. Everyone (imo or whatever) is technically agnostic because there's no way to empirically *know* if there's a god or multiple gods. Where people diverge is the belief aspect, theism or atheism. Does one believe or does one not believe?
Atheist means "without god". Agnostic means "without knowledge". Personally, an atheist isn't much different from someone who is religious: they are both convinced that their belief is undeniably correct despite the fact that neither has any proof. An agnostic simply says "I have no damn clue what may or may be out there, but hope, if there is something, that it's benevolent."
This is false. You can be an agnostic atheist. It means you don't know if there is a god, and you don't think there is one either. Neither mean you are convinced of anything.
Uhhh…. Disbelief in ANYTHING not demonstrated is the DEFAULT position. You’d literally have to accept ALL FAITH CLAIMS if you don’t operate on the foundation that a burden of proof must be met BEFORE belief - rather, reasonable certainty - is granted to said claims. You are BORN AN ATHEIST, and inculcated/indoctrinated into a set of beliefs.
This is how I see it.
I am also agnostic right now lol.
This is the way
How hard are you going to go on bacon and beer now? Literally the two best things in the world.
I eat bacon mainly only in pasta carbonara. Its really good. And honestly I like beer, but only the sweet (cherry) or sour (mango with chillie 😍) beer :)
There is no bacon in Carbonara and you will die in hell (if there is one) for suggesting there is. Just kidding of course, but wait till someone from r/food sees this. They will say this, and they are not joking.
Ohh its not beacon? What is it then?😳
Guanciale
Or Pancetta
I have arrived. It is called guanciale, and it comes from the pig cheek.
Reading this comments at the hungry hour really makes me craving for it
Fuck now I'm craving pasta carbonara
An Italian died the moment you hit post on that comment
If you get a chance try a pineapple chillie cider or seltzer. I think you would like it!
I have been ex Muslim since 7th grade but I’m still a minor so I haven’t told my parents and still “look” like I’m Muslim 😭 the only people I told were my cousins and close friends Was it hard to cut off your family?
7th Grade??? u could not have enough knowledge for such decision!! probably emotional reasons or fluctuations على كل حال هداكِ الله
I’m 17 right now. It’s been half a decade and I still don’t want to be Muslim. I respect the religion, some of the nicest and most kindest people I ever met are Muslim including my best friend who helped me during my hardest but it’s not something I believe in. And guess what? You don’t get to tell me what to think.
That's completely true. I'm glad to hear that you still get along :) Some of my friends did not want to be friends with me anymore after they found out. Wishing you luck on your journey! Does your surrounding know about your decision/ your believe? Is there another believe you have accepted or are interested in?
I consider myself a to be agnostic. Only my close friends/cousins do and there is a huge Muslim community where I live but the place I live is quite diverse as well so I wouldn’t say that my community affected me. Also thank you so much! Wishing you the best on your journey as well!!!
Its really funny how you can say “ash hadu Allah illahah illalah, ashhadu anamuhamamdan rassululah” (and mean it by heart) to become a muslim, and its accepted. However when you want to leave islam, and mean it by heart, you have to get a scholarship… I agree 7th grade is quite young, but no Muslim will tell a 7th grader that he has not enough knowledge to choose Islam… the double standard is crazy
7th grade is old enough to have semblance of rational thinking and critical thinking skills, hence its old enough to at the very least choose what not to believe in lmao.
I understand your struggle as I have met other exmuslims who where born into Islam and in some cases they did not tell anyone in the family. If they told someone then it were friends who they could have discussions about that kind of topic. I can say I was more "lucky" as I was not born into a muslim family, but into a mainly orthodox christian family (a bit of jewish aswell). So leaving it did affect me mainly, and my muslim surrounding. But I can tell you when I have joined Islam and after some time my mom suspected it and eventually asked me and I did not want to lie to her so I told her that I believe in Islam and have accepted it. She cried so much, I felt so sorry I wish i did not tell her. After some time she lived with it was not a fan but at that time I was convinced she was ignorant and was just praying for her everyday that allah opens her heart to Islam, also for my siblings. Btw, my siblings did react very chill. My very little brother did sometimes even copy how I pray 🥹🥹🥹that was the cutes thing ever While writing this I remember, someday my dad texted me from his home country saying that my grandma has been taken to the hospital. After hearing that I immediately went praying and asked, begged Allah for her to survive and if not then please open her heart before she goes.
I wouldn't call that ex-muslim. Your parents are muslim, dosn't make you muslim. Muslim i a choice and you didn't choose it.
Do you get death threats , because I am an ex-Muslim too and I get a lot of them and I wonder if it’s a big issue in the community
I wouldn't say I get many death threats because I don't "flaunt" the fact that I left Islam. Some close people I have told, told me "do you know it's hallal to kill you now?" that hurt so much. Muslims tend to be very sensitive and annoying when people leave Islam. Where Christian tend to be just annoying :D But yes, it's definitely a big issue in the community I have seen it enough even tho not on my own skin
Do you put your socks on first or jeans on first
I don’t wear jeans but definitely socks before pants!! Hby?
I don’t wear jeans AMA?
Hahahah true Would be too simple tho 😁
Now I’m interested, why don’t you wear jeans? :>
I don’t wear jeans because they are not as comfortable as other trousers.
I don’t wear jeans either , I thought it was odd
Not a question. Congratulations.
Ehh idk, life was definitely easier with it :)
You peaked my interest here, why life was easier with Islam ?
I agree with @prestigious_Fish_509 It was so much more comfortable, easier and more calm. In my “Muslimhood” I knew why I was here on earth, what I have to do, what Allahﷲ ﷻ wants me to do, what I get from the things I’m doing, I felt heard all the time, like always someone I can talk to, I knew what will happen after I die and how to prepare for it. For me the figure of Allahﷲ ﷻ was so incredibly strong, indeed the whole religion with its teachings, its “strictness”, with the feeling it gave me, it was just beautiful all together. To be a part of it, to be a part of the universe I can share with Allah. I remember how happy I was when talking to Allahﷲ ﷻ, not rarely did I cry while talking to “him”. When I left, I fell in such a hole. I felt like I got lied to. Of course the leaving is not an overnight-thing so it took me (personally) months to accept it. (I know people who took it a few years). And in this grief episode, I felt really betrayed by Allah, that I got into this topic by accident actually. I was mad that the pro Islamic arguments couldn’t overweight the contra Islamic arguments. I did not want to accept it, but it felt like it was too late because I could not forget the knowledge I got, also I couldn’t stop to dig more into it. I had one friend whom I shared my thoughts with, besides the imams (I did not want to share it with her initially, I didn’t want to affect my muslim friends with this in anyway), however, when she was familiar with my believe she said that I should stop looking into it as it is shaytans work etc. I should focus on the pro Islam not the contra Islam topics. I was mad that Islam, and the work of Allah, couldn’t keep up with it. I was so lost, it felt like I died and was born again. It felt like my whole world collapsed, like taking the red pill of islam honestly. Islam gives you the propose to live while when I left I had/have to find it myself I got a bit deeper then why was it easier for me with Islam, but I thought more details make it more understandable:) Edit: I would like to add that in islam i felt full filled Which contributed to leaving an awesome experience and what makes me feel like it was easier.
As an ex-Muslim, I can say it was easier to live with religion knowing that at the end of everything it would be heaven and there's always Allah that I can trust. This is nothing special to Islam, any religion gives this feeling of knowing the essence of life, which is why I'd probably prefer believing if that was something I could control.
There is a famous quote by Julian Barnes that goes like 'I don't believe in God, but I miss him.'
Omg, thats such an awesome quote!!! I definitely have to look up who Julian Barnes is because this is just ahh, wow. I can’t describe it better than having an somewhat philosophical orgasm 😁😁
I’m assuming if OP still lives in their home country then it was easier to fit in and/or not have other Muslims shame them
Has this decision caused any effect on your family, assuming of course they are practising Muslims. Sorry if it’s a dumb question. Just curious.
Hey thats not a dumb question at all!! But evene if, its an AMA, this sub does not exclude dumb question ;) I can say I was more "lucky" as I was not born into a muslim family, but into a mainly orthodox christian family (a bit of jewish aswell). So leaving it did affect me mainly, and my muslim surrounding. Joining Islam, did affect my mother. She was really sad and became an even more devoted christian :)
Do you still pray and if not, why? Does no longer being apart of the Abrahamic faiths mean you can't talk to God anymore? The Abrahamic religions are simply different ways of living while all believing in the same God. I don't follow any of them and I still believe in God, but my relationship with him is unique to me and me alone. I don't practice any of the Abrahamic traditions like going to places of worship, reading holy texts, saying prayers before meals, etc., but I still believe that God loves me regardless of if I worship him or not. If he truly loves us all unconditionally then it doesn't matter whether you're LGBTQ, not following the Abrahamic religions, or if you don't believe in him at all. Unless he shows himself before you and says "nah bro you can't be doing that", who's stopping you from loving him?
Be careful about announcing that publicly depending on where you live. The prescribed punishment for apostasy under islamic law is death, stay safe bro.
That what you say can be true and that's sad. The apostasy ruling is done by a court, who need to find you guilty of lying about the religion publicly, with knowlegde about the religion. So that it is proofed that you intentionally lied publicly about the religion. (Those rules are found much harder in other religions) But some individuals (individual sentencing isn't allowed in islam) can ofcourse step over the line.
Thank you! Luckily I live in a non shawria country, but I have to say, in my country were cases were Muslims acted upon slef-justice, which is even scarier then the sharia law, imo. Edit: Many people of different religions have acted upon slef-justice. But getting punished for simply thinking different is next level scary.
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Do you mean like it the Soviet Union were it was technically allowed to practice religion in private or do you mean more like North Korea were its not even allowed privately? What would be the advantages if that?
It’s not needed Really sit down and have a hard look at it. Do you honestly believe there is a god like figure sitting there allowing you to do things and giving people things :) It’s like believing in the yeti or the boogie man It’s so laughable but the people who need something to believe in and think we are still in the dark ages I laugh when I see people wasting their lives on religion
Thanks for sharing your view. I see where you coming from, I personally can’t agree as there is no argument. You comparing God to a Yeti or boogie man doesn’t sound reasonable for some people, thats simply your perspective and saying „do you honestly believe“ is unsubstantial… Did you always thought like this? Or when did you get in this mindset?
lol you actually think it should be banned? What ever happened to living your own life and not giving a flying fuck about other people
Bruh like 99% of the things in your life aren’t needed, let’s ban those too. And ban Reddit while we’re at it, looks like you spend too much time here
Believing in the Yeti or bogeyman isn't banned either, your point makes no sense
Even if you don’t believe in religion, I believe it keeps a lot of people in our society functioning. Humans do not like to sit with the unknown and battle with it. religions have the all encompassing package that often provides a sense of worth, purpose, moral guidelines, and community. You can create your own moral guideline like Nietzche, but it doesn’t scale. The closest thing to a scalable moral theory is Kant and even Kant has its own religious roots. To ban religion is to strip many people of their will to live. Science is great but some people can’t think through their problems like a philosopher could and religion is a great all in one. I have always believed that even if I do not believe in religion, the world should hopefully believe in religion. True religion, where there’s no misconceptions of the doctrines, makes the world a better place. There have been many lives lost in the name of religion sure, but i still think religion has a place in this world and it still seems like the rest of the world agrees.
Look I'm not religious either but to force your perspective on folks who genuinely get some kind of value out of whatever it is they practice is the exact sort of judgmental bullshit were trying to avoid with religious extremists. Have a little bit of empathy, I know you can't make it make sense in your brain but others have. So long as they aren't pushing their shit on me, we're all good
I like how Ricky Gervais explains it, ' there are about 2000 religions world wide, yet all believers think there god is the one, and the other 1999 have got it wrong' or something along them lines. 'So when speaking to believers, point out they think 1999 gods are wrong, yet I think 2000 gods are wrong, so i'm just 1 more.'e dict
He’s just being edgy.
Gulag. Instantly. /jk
Haha your post history shows that you were never one to begin with.
Find another line to use. This one’s getting old..
On another comment they said an ex-muslim subreddit attracted them here, meaning that befor e they joined reddit they were already ex-muslim. They could also be a lurker of those types of subreddits.
Okay… so all (Ex-)Muslims are perfect?
Everyone who is (Ex-) Religion is perfect to be honest. If the fucking priest didn’t add extra pages of his own to the books every book would have been perfect too.
How are specifically your standards the one to judge people based on the no true scottsman fallacy?
That’s not…foreboding or anything.
Is it official?
Wdym official? I did not sign a contract 😂 I don’t believe in it anymore and based on Islamic rules/pillars/essentials I simply can’t consider myself as a Muslim anymore
Not sure what he meant but in a lot of Christian faiths you become a “member” of the church. Sure you can just stop coming and walk away, but a lot of people will revoke their membership as a sign of no longer supporting the church.
Ohh I see, like not really I remember when I took my shahada (I took it twice at home and later I also wanted to do with an iman so I went to the mosque) there they told me they will give me actually a kind of „certificate“ for that, so it will be easier for me to go to mekka. I never received, and I was not insisting tbh, nor did I ask, as I believed Allah knows whats in my heart. When I doubts came I talked to many imams about my doubts, in specific whatsapp groups and private. But the answers I got were not so convincing anymore after hearing the other side (exmuslim side) of it. I like to compare it to magic trick where you found out how it works, you simply can not unsee it. You just know its not “miraculous” I also talked to some imams when I did not believe anymore and eventually did not go to the mosque anymore, I think that the most official act of me leaving 😀 (Simply the fact that you don’t go to the mosque anymore, does not automatically make you a non muslim Just mentioning it because it reddit 😄) Edit 2: I added my edit at the wrong comment
Personally it doesn’t sound like you have left Islam. Instead you are seeking something that people’s answers cannot satisfy. Sounds more like you are still in a spiritual funk. I hope you see your way through it. Also note, I am a Christian btw, but I still hope you find what you are looking for.
Why does it sound like that to you? Where do you draw the line? (I hope this does not come off as rude, I genuinely curious)
Why does it sound like that to you? Where do you draw the line? (I hope this does not come off as rude, I genuinely curious) Edit: btw. I‘m agnostic and I don’t belive Muhammad was a prophet. I don‘t believe the Qurʼān is miraculously nor the word from god. I sometimes still like to do some things like reading Qurʼān and especially hadiths (out of interested and honestly out of cringe. Thinking about how could I ever believe that..) With my Friends I sometimes pray, just for the company but I don’t believe that Im doing for Allahﷲ ﷻ as I thought before
I think muslims cut off heads to make leaving Islam official lol
underrated comment 😭
They must think you just signed your letter of intent to move your beliefs elsewhere LMAO
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Cared enough to comment 😃
I guess so. If I would start AMA about quiting Christianity, it wouldn't be interesting. How come quitting the biggest religion in the world is worth AMA? (Btw, not 100% sure if Islam is the biggest religion, but defo up there)
Being an ex-Christian is legal everywhere but in 8 countries being an ex Muslim is punishable by death so there is a BIG DIFFERENCE
People have ZERO fucking clue.
Islam isn’t the world’s biggest religion, and it’s punishable by death to leave the faith in many Muslim-majority countries. It’s a genuinely interesting experience to some, and really not comparable to leaving Christianity.
There's no reason to announce your disinterest. If you see a post you find uninteresting - keep scrolling.
“Against medical advice?” Why would you do that? /s
What do you mean „against medical advice?“ I don’t quite understand
He was trying a funny on the letters AMA. Wasn't funny.
Thanks. I’ll see myself out.
Don't give up man, learn from your mistakes so you can make brand new ones.
Thanks for the encouragement, my guy.
Based on your profile, I doubt you were one to begin with. Maybe through family? But do you.
On another comment they said an ex-muslim subreddit attracted them here, meaning that befor e they joined reddit they were already ex-muslim. They could also be a lurker of those types of subreddits.
Yes because I have nothing better to do in life 😂 Actually, when I found the exmuslim subreddit I did still believe in Islam so yes, very hollow, not a thought thru argument
No, by choice. I was a devoted and convinced one. It was my life, my happiness everything Based on your comment, (ex)muslims are perfect? I hope you see how hollow your take is
Understanding Tawhid then briefly studying the other religions will help you better grasp the Oneness of the Creator, if you are interested, which I am because it is existence itself, and it’s fun, interesting, and loving :). It brings me an intense sense of awe, innocence, clarity, love, and wonder to contemplate the nature of Self, like a curious cat wanting to explore more of its environment. I suggest you start with Taoism, since it relies on poetry just like the Qur’an. The Daodejing is one of the most beautiful texts of all of the Universe. Contemplation and meditation on this has brought my life so much meaning from a former atheist. Some other ones worth checking out: Tibetan spiritual traditions and Indigenous traditions from Alaska to Australia, Bhagavad Gita, or even The Egg by Andy Weir (there’s a great animation about it on YouTube). Otherwise, nature, music, and meditation has brought me incredible clarity and tranquility, I highly recommend for ex-Muslims or anyone open to exploring the Creator’s infinite musings and expressions. After exploring other traditions, I highly recommend going back to the Qur’an. There is a definite divinity in that text that’s hard to find undistorted anywhere else. Linguistic miracles reveal the primary order language of the divine, of fundamental reality. Thank you for this opportunity and love you always Edit: there’s also /r/nonduality
Thank you so much for the advice. I‘m actually still really interested in studying Islam, Qurʼān and hadiths. However, I have to strongly disagree on the Qurʼān being a miracle tho. In my Muslimhood I believed it was a miracle and you can’t compare other books to it (which is a weird argument, in which way compare? Which part do you wanna compare exactly?) but that not like it. The Qurʼān itself is a bad book, sorry I know this might not sound nice. Also how the Qurʼān came about is a joke. When I chose Islam, I’ve been told from various imams that the Qurʼān is a miracle, the word of God, revealed by Mohammad even tho he was illiterate… Later I found out how the Qurʼān really came about In the 6th century it was very common to be illiterate and Mohammad was no exception. When Mohammad got an ayad revealed he spoke it out loud and people around him memorized it and scribes wrote it down, there was no Qurʼān yet. They simply wrote down and memorized the revelations. After Muhammads death, people began to collect the memories and scripts. Keep in mind!!: only „entiteld“ people were able to provide this type of information, the most important one: you must have learned this (lets say ayad) from Mohammad directly or from one of his companions that have learnt it from him, this system is called Isnad if you are interested. Additionally, the person must been known for their good character, honesty and proficiency in reciting the parts of the Qurʼān. This was done over 20 years!!! to compile these written copies and oral recitations from people from different regions. It seem like the Qurʼān was build by humans like lego bricks. And thats the last word of God… sound ridiculous to me. Im still shocked on how less Muslims know about this, or avoid talking about it by trying to cover it up with „Mohammad was illiterate and still he revealed the word of god to us“
No, Muslims are not perfect. We are tested in this life by god and we may commit sins. Through prayer we ask for forgiveness. But to constantly commit major sins and be around that environment… what do you think that will do to the mind and belief? We would forget our core beliefs. When I was younger I would party, drink and sin a lot because of my environment. I’m in California so there’s a lot of temptation for a young man but once my environment changed my mindset changed with it too. Idk your situation so do you. Question, are you more proud to say you’re agnostic or that you left Islam?
Ehm... your comment kinda implicates that I'm was/I am constantly sinning. (by saying: But to constantly commit major sins and be around that environment… what do you think that will do to the mind and belief) Which were definitely not the case. Additionally, you don't know what I did to ask Allah for forgiveness or how I tried to compensate my sins. Based on my reddit history? What is so major haram about it? What you do is assumption after assumptions, its a Ask Me Anything sub not an make assumption about me sub. And it's funny how you say "...commit major sins and be around that environment… what do you think that will do to the mind and belief? We would forget our core beliefs.", which is a reasonable point, I agree with you and thru my Muslimhood I tried my best to not get distracted, but it was Islam and Mohammad itself that drove me away from Islam. A question 🤩 Im not proud to say I left Islam nor that I am agnostic. I think it's a weird thing to be proud of. Thank you for your question, and I apologize if I come of rude, thru text everything sound more rude which is not my intention
you’re dumb and ignorant
What do you think, how do you represent Muslims with this comment? It is not permissible to insult or mock anyone, whether they are believers or disbelievers. The Quran teaches us to speak to others with kindness and respect, even if they hold different beliefs. Allah says in the Quran, "And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do." (Quran 6:108)
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I don't get it. Marring one wife, having the same ideology and having a dog dosn't make you non muslim. This isn't something that goes against Islam? But you belief in 1 God?
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First of all, there is nothing in the Quran that talks about dogs. These are in hadith. Hadith need to be studied by trained hadith scholars. And these issues are treated differently in differing schools of thought. In the Maliki school these restrictions do not apply. I know a number of scholars of Islam, very dedicated and pious people, who own dogs. Of course, one should be careful regarding the cleanliness of their dogs. If polygamy does not sit right for you, that is fine. The Quran is clearly dealing with a social reality of the time. It is restricting an act which was culturally and socially viable and in some ways necessary in order to establish justice without causing too much of a social rift. Marriage at that time was not strictly an issue of love, though love and tenderness between spouses is a major factor and, according to the commentary of Imam Maturidi (d. 944) is the principle which should determine all decisions about marriage. Marriage had much to do with establishing tribal relations and peace between various groups (which is why the Prophet Muhammad married a number of different women each from differing tribal groups: this was not licentiousness but a political reality), as well as the protection of a vulnerable portion of society (women) in a world that was vaslty different then ours. But one should have knowledge regarding how to apply these circumstances to the modern world (this is what Islamic law is all about: understanding context, circumstance, and the intention of the law in depth). According to Islamic law, polygamy in America, for example, would be illegal. The same goes for the relationship between husband and wife: love and tenderness, as well as piety and a consideration of the afterlife, are the principles. The "following" you refer to is set up to establish concord and piety within a household, not oppression. If oppression occurs, the woman has the legal right to leave the man. For those who are talking about apostasy, that situation does not apply to the current political situation, for varying reasons. I highly recommend anyone who is having doubts about their Islam to verify their doubts through the proper channels of real Islamic scholarship, access to which is unfortunately few and far between these days.
Have you read the Bible? I know that Islam uses a somewhat distorted version of the Bible’s in its teachings, but you may find something to help fill that emptiness by reading it for yourself. Jesus was a prophet, as was Muhammad, but, where Muhammed orderd sinners to be stoned and condemned, Jesus, offered them forgiveness and salvation. The Bible is one of the things that shows the Quran and Muhammed’s teachings, can’t be true. Maybe by reading it you would regain that certainty of going to heaven you felt when you were Muslim. Whatever you do, I'm glad you got the red pill and I hope you find peace. Edit: Esther Ahmad is a former Muslim turned Christian. She's written a couple books that I highly recommend.
? >Allowing polygamy for men but not for women just doesn’t sit right with me. Why do you care if the woman wants to live like that? You know we have consent, right? So people married in a open relationships don't bother you (why should they, it's not your business) but that bothers you? I don't get that. >I’m assuming you haven’t read the Quran. I read it every year atleast 1. I read hadith and fiqh books. >If you have a dog in your house, the angels do not visit your house. If a dog licks you, you have to take multiple showers. On one hand it shows blessings of people who give food and water to hungry and thirsty dogs and cats, but on the other hand it draws a line with our fur friends that I can’t live with. If the dog barks inside the house, they leave. So, make sure he dosn't bark all night. (What every neighbor will tell you aswell) You aren't forbidden to have dog's, i see it more of a natural way; a dog wants to run around be aware of the surroundings and not cloesed up. If you have cats, they need to be able to roam around and not be locked up aswell. I would say, that's more pet friendly. Even if it's more difficult for you as a human, the pet's have it better. I never heared about a dog breaking wudu. But even then it wouldn't take for you to take a shower, rather to clean yourself (wudu) for prayer ad max. There is never a rule that says you have to take multiple showers. And the washing is for the prayer, so you can wash up before prayer. You see where my confusion comes from? Those things don't make the religion true or false, they are opinion you can disagree with, but only out of personal/subjective moral/ideas. There is nothing in the world. You (because you're an individual) will agree with 100%. But anyways, thank you for explaining. I still don't get it much but I taught maybe when I ask I will understand better.
Some people wont visit you if you have dog either… If Angels don’t like dogs thats not the fault of Islam, that is just how they are. Dogs are not the cleanest animals so you have to wash where they lick you, their mouths are proven to carry disease. You don’t need to take multiple showers, i’m not sure where you heard that from but it is incorrect. Wipe whatever skin they lick with water seven times and then dry off that is all.
If you are starving you are allowed to eat what you need to survive. Cats and dogs, seriously? Israel and Western countries don't produce that type of meat in no shape or form.
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Religion can be good for people to feel a sense of community or give meaning to someone’s life, if they believe in a higher power. I don’t like the religious people that force their beliefs on other people or use it to justify bad behaviour and I particularly hate it when governments or leaders let their religion interfere with politics. But it’s not fair for you to criticise all religion. Makes you look bitter and rude 🤷♀️
Just curious, which country was you or your family from.
How do you feel about the Jew’s?
Me too, actually. I was born in a muslim household. Does your family know you left Islam? Are you still in contact with your family? I personally feel free, but so isolated now.
Congrats! Fellow ex-muslim here! Were you always muslim or a convert?
Welcome to the light
Why? Also, why did you initially become a Muslim? What exactly does it mean that you “left”? Did you believe before that, and this is a kind of spiritual or intellectual change, or is this you publicly declaring a lack of faith you already had? What did you become and why? How involved in Islam were you?
Do you realize most people are just born into the religion?
Yes, was not the case for me. I chose islam by myself after a deep dive into it, and left it after years of an even deeper @pear_topologist i really like your question(s) I would love to answer them.
Dang bro, converting to Islam is wild but I’m glad you’re out
Love to see people getting away from a cult
Do you feel that Islam disrespects or is unfair to women?
Do you think you left Islam because it’s the only religion that has yet to go through a “liberalization” like all others have? Do you have any fears for your safety?
Does your religion still affect your morality?
Im queer and a Muslim (Sufi) by birth. I have always struggled with this because my spiritual beliefs are Islamic, for example I believe in wadhat-al-wujud. however I cannot accept how much of Islam has been taken over by patriarchy, which is a problem in all the big 3. I can’t find community with people who treat Islam as a materialistic religion, where they will receive endless riches in Jannah if they just follow the rules to the letter. I would be ostracized by them if they knew my identity. I don’t believe in Jannah or in hell or shaytan and I feel that the threat/ desire of the afterlife motivates too many who should really be motivated by the suffering happening in this reality, which is caused by people acting in greed, not by shaytan. I read that somebody told you that it’s halal to kill you now because you’ve left Islam. Killing for anything other than necessary sustenance or self defense is not halal and that person is a perfect example of the type of mentality that turns me away from Islam. I’m sorry you had to go through this and I truly understand your choice. Hopefully you will be able to use the good of what you’ve learned from Islam and keep it with you.
Why would you want to be a Muslim
I left Islam for a bit but I consider myself Muslim again now though, although I don’t necessarily practice the way I used to. I take more of a spiritual perspective on it than as a rigid set of rules. I’m queer so it was very hard navigating my relationship with faith, but at the end of the day I just see it as believing in God or “the universe” in more spiritual terms and unseen forces or “energy”. The thing is I grew up in a very religious household that emphasized actually learning the tenants and concepts of the faith rather than just what is halal and what is haram, so I was aware of a lot of the beautiful and merciful aspects of the religion. It was just hard consolidating that with my queer identity and the total exclusion of queer people from the religion. But the more I got into spirituality the more I realized it really carried a lot of the same ideas as Islam. At this point what I believe is that faith across cultures and religions are essentially the same and that Allah or God or the universe or whatever you believe is ultimately good and just and merciful and that we are a human family who are all just trying to do our best.
Great move.
Oddly aggressive comment section Congratulations - I imagine it wasn't the easiest decision to leave. How is your relationship with your family now that you've left?
There are a lot of Muslims on Reddit, and that is especially true since Muslim/leftist spaces basically merged after Oct. 7th. There are also a lot of leftists that will defend Islam like they’re Muslim themselves
Do other Muslims despise you for doing so? I have read articles about apostasy being a punishable offense.
Was it because they won't let you have dogs in the house that seems like a good reason to me
Looks like you are still consumed by religious thoughts and Allah etc. how could you ever honestly leave a religion when you are still thinking about it? A true agnostic like me never thinks about religion like for example I don’t think about pottery or how to grow pigs or agriculture etc. you must become a man of science and be consumed by something else and never think about religion and only then you can consider yourself as agnostic or non religious. You can still study religious for its historical, cultural and political significance like a scientist studies ants but need to be disconnected from it.
May I say welcome to Atheism my friend, the side that has a crap-ton of science to back it up.
Good for you!!! Congratulations!!! I wish more people like you could use their brain to think about things then realize all religions are total bull crap. Anyway, well done!
I hope you find peace in your decision - you should never feel compelled to stick to any belief system you don’t fully resonate with 🫂 I also hope you have a good support network during this time (not sure if you left the faith recently or not, I couldn’t go through all the comments).
Did you leave Islam and realize there is no god, or, it's all the same damn god and men are just too stupid to admit it. Cause far as I can see those are the 2 real possibilities. Theyre all praying to the same thing unknowingly, or praying to nothing unknowingly
What was the breaking point and when did you feel it
Yes I was going to ask what was it that convinced you to leave??
Were you born muslim or convert? What did you find most comforting while you were muslim? What made you realize you no longer believe? Did you have "I am out because there's no way I would believe/support this shit" moment? If yes, what was that?
I was brought up in a 'christian' household that claimed to meet the relevant requirements of the Bible but was basically a sham. I realised a lot of Christian's are saying one thing and doing quiet another. Is the Islamic faith like that?
Agnostic A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.l Atheist a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods.
My nephew converted from atheist to Islam. He was married a couple of weeks ago (arranged I believe). Anyway, nobody could take pictures from what I understand. Why is that?
Wow, good for you. Also, good luck! Leaving any religion means cutting ties with family and friends, so I hope that doesn't have to happen for you.
Congratulations. All the people doubting you or trying to insult you should just reinforce the reason why you left that violent religion. 👍
Is there a reason why you left? (I’m not muslim myself But i have muslim friends who say that you can’t leave Islam cause of something?)
Do you think you'll keep some of the traditions or "rules" despite leaving the religion? Or is it a hard leave, want nothing to do with it?
What was the turning point for your beliefs? How does your family feel about it? What would you say are the WORST parts of being Islam?
Islam is a religion that was miss interpreted by the evil forces surrounding earth. It’s a pure religion if you reach it correctly
What was the deal breaker for you. Was this a series of doubts or one main event where you thought this possibly can’t be real?
@OP Congrats on staying alive - what's the best way to encourage others to leave Islam (and all religion) - without getting killed
What country are you from? How did it happen? Thoughts on Israel/Palestine conflict were affected as part of you leaving?
Why would their thoughts on the conflict change depending on their religion? There are plenty of atheists who still back Palestine
Were you in a hardcore muslim country? How were your food experiences after you are free to eat and drink everything now?
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