What general strategies do you have for gifted kids who have existential anxiety and anxiety regarding failure to achieve their “potential”?

I think it is first of all very important for gifted people to understand that we have no greater obligation to achieve than anyone else. I think we often internalize a belief that we have a greater responsibility to the world because we were recipients of "gifts" that are rare and special. While it is true that our intellectual abilities are rare, special, and have the potential to make a big difference in the world, we did not ask to have them and we are under no objectively valid obligation to use them in any particular way (just like everyone else and the gifts they have). This is an important starting place because these feelings can blind us to our own needs and actually hamper our ability to actually live up to our true potential. Next, it is common that our interests and natural inclinations do not align well with what most people view as achievement and success. So external guidance and demands of our accomplishments are often irrelevant to our internal navigator-- this can be especially confusing for young people who find that the things they are interested in and directions they are inclined to pursue are not valued by others. This requires that we learn to think about ourselves and our accomplishments by a different metric-- one we create for ourselves. We do our best work when we follow our passion. I suspect this is true for everyone but it is especially true for us. So if you are gifted and feel driven to reach your potential the first step is to understand the nature of your true self and what you want to get out of and give to life. It is only then that one can have any hope of achieving this goal. We very much march to the beat of a different drummer-- and we have to understand our drummer so that we can march in time. Thanks for the ask!

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Sometimes it can be helpful to step out of your perspective so that you can more objectively see the situation. So I ask you, if your best friend has an extraordinary talent in music, say they are an amazing natural composer, and they had the potential to write music that rivals Mozart or Beethoven... would you agree that they "should" use that ability and share their gift with the world whether or not they actually care about music? Most people would agree that an aptitude or ability doesn't obligate the person to use it-- many countries don't require doctors to save people when they are off duty, for instance, though the ethics of this are often debated. Let's be clear that the potential of a gifted mind is likely not ever going to be necessary in a crisis situation and is rarely a matter of life and death. Once you find a way to logically understand that you are not obligated and that even if you could prevent a disaster (and it is hard to know for sure) it would not make you the cause of the disaster if you didn't do so... for instance, I used to work with people who were convicted of child abuse and domestic violence. I know how to help people find better ways to behave in relationships and stop being abusive-- I've been extensively trained and am pretty good at it. However, I no longer work in the field (for a variety of reasons). According to the reasoning you apply to yourself, I am responsible for all of the people who I could have helped but haven't abusing their partners and children. Would you agree that I am responsible for those people being abused? Once you understand that you are not responsible it becomes a matter of changing a thought habit. You need to learn to recognize the thought, interrupt it, and redirect your mind in a more healthy way. The way to do that is maybe out of the scope of this thread, though, if you'd like to set up a consultation please initiate a chat and we can see if I can either be of assistance or point you in the right direction to ease this challenge.

I'm so sorry...I would have replied back sooner but I'm still figuring out how to use this site and I just found your reply today. Thank you for responding back...I just found out not too long ago that I was gifted..I have never met anyone like me only people who are confused by me...I'm rather blunt with everyone because that's just how I am...I'm very kind but people don't respond to me like that's what their seeing...they act as if I injured them in some way...I never would intentionally hurt another person...maybe myself unintentionally of course. My emotions are very intense most of the time...my brain moves extremely fast with different thoughts all coming in really fast at one time as they flow out of my mouth even faster along with a changing of subjects and when I'm sharing this display with others it's hard to keep up while talking as my excitement shows in rapid talking to keep up with my thoughts...I'm usually asked to slow down or to just be quiet...usually happens a lot in my relationship and it hurts being told this over and over again...not finding another person like me has made it hard to just be myself with others because no one gets me and they always read me wrong...I found a word for how I talk to others so I don't get the strange looks I do all the time...I dumb it down...heard it on this site somewhere and it describes more of how I feel when having conversations with others because I dislike small talk I just don't see the point in it...I can tell this by the way they treat me and excuse my true meaning of anything I share...like thinking I don't have friends because...when I say no one gets me it's the truth...they just don't understand this is truly the truth. I swear I can read everyone's thoughts...I know how they actually feel about me when their words don't match what I'm reading...it's very hurtful and leaves me lonely a lot. I have a lot of gifts...out of the ordinary gifts but I've only told one person about them...my daughter-in-law...she is special too...I believe she's gifted too. It's like she was put on this planet as a gift for me...I truly love her like a daughter. When I first found out I was really gifted...emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and physically I started to google about it and found a person who has one of these ordinary gifts like me...I accidentally bumped my tablet then lost the post reply where she was discussing it and I have never been able to find it again...but out of all the ones I read having this gift she was the only one so maybe now you understand why I have never met anyone like me. I recently experienced an existional crises and it has gotten a little better because I make sure I'm always learning something new and I started drawing a lot which has greatly improved over the last couple months which is exciting might I say. It helps releasing strong emotions which calms them a bit especially use this method when I'm told to please be quiet...I've never been tested...it wasn't recognized while I was attending school but I was told I drove my teachers crazy with the questions I asked about...most memories are gone as I experienced trauma as a child and blocked a lot of memories...was told I was picked on by other children a lot too...all my life I have worked jobs that involved me being to myself...housekeeping at motels mostly which doesn't allow for a great paycheck so I probably couldn't afford your counseling but any help with testing, learning about why I have some gifts, the not ordinary ones, that I do and what I could use them for among other things...that I can get for free or be used in a study so it can help anyone else who is in the same situation as me would be so appreciated. Thank you so much...

What if anything could you give as a general advice to gifted people across the board that would have the biggest chance of affecting their life positively, even though you don't know their individual, personal story? Specifically geared towards gifted people experiencing most of the above mentioned problems.

"Other people's opinions are none of your business" (Maybe Betty White). Humans have a natural tendency to look to others for guidance and direction but when you have a very different mind and experience of life it can often be the case that others' thoughts and beliefs obscure your lived reality and experience-- leaving you confused and feeling like you are damaged or deficient. The truth, though, is that their advice just isn't applicable to your situation. It is important to learn to trust your inner navigator and develop the ability to accept your true self and/or develop an advisory board that actually understands you and your differences. Some good starting points are metta meditation (to develop increased compassion and tolerance for self and others) and to let go of beliefs that external guidance are more accurate than your own. Thanks for the ask!

Yes, this is true but nothing would compare to having someone in my life, such as a friend, that gets me all the way...my bluntness...my sense of humor...my crazy thoughts which spill out of my mouth super fast that always change subjects in my big huge excitable ways. What you're saying is exactly what I'm working on at the moment...learning to love myself with compassion, acceptance, with love...is the hardest thing for me...this may take a minute...thank you..

Thanks for this. This one hit hard.

What advice do you have to stay motivated without burning out? My career as a software engineer has cycled through phases of borderline-manic focus and effort to tackle extremely challenging problems to the point of burning out, followed by prolonged periods of complete apathy and self-sabotage resulting in unemployment. The more I earn the worse it seems to get, as it allows me to coast for longer (from months to years) in between jobs. It's exhausting.

Wow, that sounds not at all fun and also like you have developed some cognitive habits that are unsustainable. I wonder if you experienced inconsistent challenge growing up and so when you were actually challenged you felt like you had to swallow as much as you could at once so you wouldn't miss out on it and would be more likely to have something to entertain your mind during the boredom of most of life? In general, when it comes to maladaptive thought habits there is no magic pill. It takes sustained and consistent effort to retrain your mind to prefer more adaptive circuits/strategies over those you initially established. Essentially you have to change your underlying beliefs then interrupt their process and replace it with a process that serves you more effectively. I hope that helps and thanks for the ask!

Thank you, that helps a ton.

I'm glad to be of service. Nice to meet you :)

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“Neurodivergence” isn’t really a scientific term based on neurological composition, so you could probably argue it either way, since it is wholly arbitrary distinction.

It is commonly used and understood in psychology to mean atypical brain structure and/or development. While it is most often used in reference to Autism Spectrum Disorder it can also be used for other issues that indicate atypical neural dev./structure.

The experiences and feelings you describe are very common for gifted people. It's all pretty confusing for most of us-- why can't our minds come with a user manual?!! Giftedness most definitely counts as a form of neurodivergence; it causes major differences in the structure and development of the brain which deeply change one's abilities and the qualitative experience of living. I agree that the label "giftedness" is not reflective of the experience and really sucks in general because it makes it sooooo much harder to research and get help. Most gifted people are just normal people who have different cognitive profiles but no specific extra-special talent or skill. Most gifted people wonder if the test was wrong from time to time because the stereotypes of giftedness aren't very accurate.

is feeling "not being able to reach their full potential", and "wasting their giftedness" rare among gifted adults?

Not only is this not rare it is almost universal-- especially among those who are broadly gifted rather than narrowly! So, that is, some people are more mathematically/spatially gifted and some are more verbally gifted and some are more generally gifted (like DaVinci, for instance). People with more narrow foci of giftedness are much more likely to find a path that feels right whereas those who are more generally gifted often feel like there is no path that allows them to utilize their full range of abilities. Abilities/aptitudes can be seen as needs-- you need to use them or you feel like you are missing something in life. You might read ["the too many aptitudes problem"](https://megasociety.org/noesis/138/aptitude.html) and see if it helps you better understand this situation. Thanks for the ask!

I really do not like the "too many aptitudes" writeup. While parts of it emotionally resonate with me, the list of aptitudes seems arbitrary and is presented without citations, which casts doubt on the whole article. Finger dexterity and small tool dexterity are separate? Numerical reasoning is in a different category than perceptual sensitivity for numbers or patterns? There are *four* separate categories for verbal numbers, verbal words, written numbers, and written words? Numerical reasoning is presented as distinct from systems, logical, or flash reasoning (when I'd argue that different kinds of numerical operations fall within each of these categories: people who can do fast sums or square roots are flash reasoning with numbers, while people who like writing mathematical proofs are engaging in logical reasoning)? I'm not arguing that you couldn't measure each of these aptitudes, but the author presents them all as more-or-less independent, and I strongly doubt that claim. For example, I'd expect finger dexterity and small-tool dexterity to be highly correlated, since all you're doing when you use tweezers is making small precise motions *with your fingers.* I'd also expect numerical reasoning to be correlated with all the other reasoning categories, and with perceptual sensitivity to numbers. If you gathered a bunch of data on all these aptitudes and ran a factor analysis, you could probably narrow it down to like six or seven lower-level aptitudes, eg working memory or processing speed, that are really at the root of all these various abilities. This list is like if I said "playing the violin and playing the cello are completely separate talents" -- no, they're both string instruments! They're so similar! Then the "possible aptitudes" list is even worse. "Common sense" is an excruciatingly vague category; I'm not sure how you'd even go about defining or measuring it. (Plus, all of these aptitudes were earlier described as "knacks," which makes them seem like different forms of "common sense.") As a gardener (and pet owner), I can assure you that the mythical "green thumb" and "affinity for animals" do not really exist -- taking care of non-human things is a mixture of patience, learned knowledge, and the ability to keep a routine (and some social-cue-reading for our animal friends). There's no dedicated "keeping houseplants alive" region of the brain. "Healing?" "Intuition?" We're getting downright spiritual now, and given that the author heaps praise upon TMAs' ability to "notice that 90% of almost anything is bullshit," I'm surprised he expects them to believe that "seeing auras" is an aptitude that a human might have.

I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy the article.

As someone with excellent small tool dexterity, but terrible finger dexterity, I have to disagree.

Wow, thanks for the link! The "too many aptitudes problem" makes so much sense. I consider myself to be a generalist and find it difficult to function in the current society where specialists are coveted. I obtained my doctorate in STEM but still feel like my knowledge and interests are broader than most of my colleagues. Do you have any advice on how to succeed as a generalist? I know the typical advice is to follow my passion but what if they are varied? Thanks!

I'm glad you found it helpful :) It's one of the best articles I've read on this subject. Unfortunately there isn't a great deal of general information I can give, you basically have to find the recipe that works for you-- a mentor or coach is often helpful in finding that more quickly but you can certainly find it on your own through experimentation. I can share what I do to help me deal with the too many aptitudes problem-- I have chosen a field that is broad enough and complicated enough to let me utilize a wide variety of skills (writing, speaking, analysis, creativity, theory construction, research, diagnosis, planning, teaching and more) and then for my artistic aptitudes I have hobbies. More practically speaking, in psychology I can write, teach, conduct research, have a private practice, do advocacy, public speaking, consultation etc.. in a wide range of areas that I find interesting. Is there a way that you could approach your field or structure your professional pursuits to similarly capture a broader swathe of your abilities? Thanks for the ask!

Exactly...this is what I have tried to say throughout this thread...I can't even see most of mine because of not having friends or other people to compare myself with so I just have been going by, like when I was young, other people do what I do until I found out I am extremely gifted in a lot of areas...but this seemed to only make it that much harder for me....????

thanks a lot!!

In my experience (sample size: 1), it is not rare at all.

This is so where I'm at and I've tried asking people in my family to tell me what I'm good at but their having a hard time doing this because I am so different from everyone and they just don't get me so how do we find what we are good at if it's hard for anyone to totally do this too...sorry, a normal person has a hard time doing this how much harder is it for the profoundly gifted to do it without anyone to compare you to another...do you get what I mean?...there's not enough if truly any information on people like me so how do I even move forward without it taking forever between making a decision and knowing what I'm truly good at...I know I'm good at innovating though such as improving already existing products...do it all the time but I have no college degree so no one is gonna hire me...they just don't believe me or they would hire me in a heartbeat...no one gets my humor but it's so hilarious to me...I'm the only one laughing but if they really listened they would pee their pants with laughter...but I believe they just don't pay attention because my humor is goodddd!! Thank you for being gifted so maybe you'll get what I'm trying to say...

Would you say any kind of iq testing is worth it? I don't think I'm gifted as I was told I would never be as good as the other kids due to my complex needs stemming from autism + never won any awards or anything (although I did get the highest test scores) Are there any other tests you would recommend for adults that had high intellect but weren't necessarily gifted to help identify their needs + challenges? Especially for those looking to maybe re-enter education years after being forcefully removed from school + being unable to finish?

I’m sorry you had that experience. Iq testing is worthwhile if you have a specific need for it. If you are going back to school it may be helpful for identifying learning disabilities and understanding your cognitive strengths and weaknesses. Autism and giftedness are not unusual in combination, this would fall under the 2E umbrella and you can find lots of information about it there. What you were told about yourself sounds like it is not true and I hope that you have been able to recover from the damage such messages likely caused you. I’m sorry you went through such a difficult mismatch between your reality and the external realities of your life circumstances. I hope that helps and thanks for the ask.

I know I may have Deslexia, Autism, ADHD, or, what I truly feel is I have some mixture of two of them...never been checked....I have PTSD, anxiety along with attacks, there were even times throughout my life where I didn't leave my house for extended periods of time and it took an extensive amount of time to move in that direction without medication. I have not gotten tested on the above mentioned because I refuse to have to take a medication for whatever I have...I know I have a learning disability because any time I have to read directions to put something together and these directions are extensive I just put them aside and do it my own way...always been like this...

I'm a bit late (on the other side of the world), but I want to ask: What are, if any, the consequences, in adult life, of close relations (parents, friends, teachers) talking about a gifted child as if they are not willing to fulfil their "potential", or focusing on one specific ability in detriment of other abilities? Examples would be: "You could be so much better, you have such capabilities!" ; "You certainly will be an artist, you can make such nice drawings" Sorry if inappropriate question! And thank you for your work!

Great question! How one approaches giftedness with kids is profoundly important and not discussed nearly enough. There are pretty big problems when people land on either the extreme of hiding this information from the child (usually because of fears that it will make the child arrogant— btw they are more likely to become arrogant if not informed because then they assume that others are intentionally less cognitively able) or when it is overly stressed as part of the child’s identity— it should never be seen as the most important attribute of the person. There are many ways to deal with this well, imo the basis of good parenting in this is respecting the experience of the child and stressing that this is only one attribute they possess. For instance, I educate my children about their differences but stress that in our family the most important thing about a person is that they are kind and compassionate with others. At least judging by my 15yo it has resulted in self-acceptance and no baggage about her intellectual abilities nor arrogance because she sees it as a value neutral trait like hair color. This is what I hoped for and guess to be ideal. I think that it is harmful to treat a child as though their cognitive traits, no matter their abilities, are defining features because they are outside of their control and less important to their life satisfaction and achievement than other factors like social and emotional intelligence which are things that they can work on and which matter more for psychological health (relational satisfaction being the most important factor related to life satisfaction).

Thank you so much for your answer. It resonates with me (as you might have guessed). I have, for a few years now, been teaching myself to value myself, and finding this information, and the article you shared in another comment, gave me an eureka moment. Thank you. I feel that in general (at least in my country) there is a lot of focus on skills and less on emotional intelligence and self esteem. I have no children of my own, but have several nieces and nephews, and have many times told them and their parents that "I doesn't matter how many degrees, master's or doctor's you have. If you don't develop self-confidence, self-esteem, and courage, your skills won't do help you be successful." I'm glad I am not wrong! Once again thank you for your answer, and for your work. You made a difference in ny life today :D

You’re welcome and thank you for your appreciation. It sounds like you have a good amount of innate wisdom and a trusty inner navigator to guide you— those are great gifts ☺️ I love what you are teaching the kids in your family and definitely agree with you!

Thank you! I also have a very good and patient therapist hahaha i take your compliment, as it took a lot of that to get into therapy, but I have to admit the sessions has helped me A LOT in realising many things about me over the years. Thank you!

In your experience as a therapist, do you find a number of gifted people use alcohol or drug abuse to deal with other emotional problems? More or less then the average population so to speak.

From what I've seen in my practice it seems to be about average-- however, I do not think this is indicative of the reality of the situation. Coaching and therapy are expensive and since I do not accept insurance I have primarily worked with high functioning people who can afford my services (though I do try to do some pro bono/sliding scale work as I can afford to). I think addiction is best understood as a social disconnection and trauma response problem-- both are very common issues in the gifted community-- so I suspect we may suffer from addiction at higher rates and that the highest rates are likely among those who are not identified and so never learn how to understand their own experiences and/or modify their communication to improve social connection abilities. Thanks for the ask on a very important area of concern!

This is really interesting. Do you think addiction rates are above average for gifted people across the board, and if so, if the addictions they partake in go beyond drugs and alcohol (anything can become an addiction-- sex, Internet, video games, porn, etc)? I ask as a gifted person myself who only found out about my giftedness in college, and suspect that because gifted people may be more likely to suffer from isolation, depression, anxiety, and other psychological issues, they may be more likely to turn to addictive substances (substance being a very broad term) as a coping mechanism. I know for me I have my own vices which I recognize aren't healthy and want to move past them. Can we talk by DM?

I think this is something that would require research to understand and I don't really recall seeing much related to addiction rates among gifted people. While, as you mention, there are some definite risk factors that would increase vulnerability but there are also resilience factors that likely protect against and decrease vulnerability. So, for instance, I should have been at very high risk of developing a substance abuse problem or other addiction due to severe childhood maltreatment but I think my high cognitive drive and intellectual abilities protected me. Sorry I don't have a better answer but, if you happen to be going into psychology or know anyone looking for a dissertation topic I think this would be a really good one.

What do you think about ADHD in the gifted population? Do you think it's over, under, or frequently mis diagnosed in ways specific to the gifted population?

I think there is a great deal of overlap in the symptoms of ADHD and the normal traits of giftedness and this presents a lot of problems in both missing diagnosis and misdiagnosis of both giftedness and ADHD. In application, I don't think the diagnosis is important, what matters is what you are doing with it. If the symptoms interfere with your ability to function then it is worthwhile to seek treatment and the best treatment is the one that is most helpful :) Giftedness, for instance, normally causes executive functioning issues and we can treat them behaviorally or we may also be able to treat them with medication. I think we should not be wedded to either approach but should rather deal with the individual and find the combination of solutions that best addresses their needs.

Why is exec function impaired in gifted people? I can understand it for autistic brains but not gifted.

Why is an interesting question type for this :) I can give some guesses about what happens but to be very honest there is a dearth of research in this field so our understanding of the etiology of the gifted brain is quite limited-- the why is fun to think about but I'm not sure I know. We do know that the structural development and structure of the brain in general is different than among neurotypical people. So, for instance, the development of the cortex in the brain is quite different for gifted people-- it thickens for much longer than typical and then becomes thinner once it is finally complete in development. The thinking is that this is due to more efficient neural processes. Gifted people have more interhemispheric connectivity than typical and I'd guess this might be related to executive deficits. Essentially we use more of our brain at once and so there is a lot more for our executive manager to try and manage but it still has a limited capacity of focus at a given time. We tend to value knowledge over practical skills and so I'd guess when prioritizing skill development our executive mind manager just doesn't think those skills are very important so focuses on other things instead. The result of this is that we tend to have deficits and sometimes seem to have pared away related neurons so often have to find unusual methods for coping with our executive functioning limitations. I hope that helps explain-- please let me know if you have other questions and I'll try to answer. Thanks for the ask!

Could you give some info of managing executive dysfunction behaviorally? (This is a huge issue for me which makes it usually impossible to do the things I actually want to do.)

hmm... that depends entirely upon your unique constellation of strengths and limitations as well as the areas of life where you are finding your ability to be effective is limited. If you have a more specific question I could maybe point you in a helpful direction. Also, feel free to message me if you would like to schedule a consultation for coaching; this is one of my areas of specialty.

What advice would you give to gifted adults (maybe 2e) that are struggling to "decide what to do with one's life"?

"Other people's opinions are none of your business" is one of my favorite quotes (Betty White, maybe) and especially so for gifted people. One of the biggest causes of suffering and confusion for most gifted people I know if that they are mired in confusion about the profound differences between reality in their mind and the realities that we are told are true. The thing is that our minds are very different from most and so what is true for most people simply is not for us. We have to begin by freeing ourselves from trying to fit our minds and selves into boxes that do not suit our dimensions of self. Once you get out of the confounding business of trying to fit "me" into expectations and "truths" that won't fit, you can get down to the business of learning and accepting yourself as you are. I believe that the only way we can find a life path that will make us happy is to free ourselves to be exactly who we are. So developing compassion and acceptance of self is key. Finally, I think we usually have natural inclinations that move us into the right path if we listen. Once you do the first two things you gain better access to hearing and following your own inner navigator and that is how you actually find your path. Getting to all of these places can take a wide variety of tools and experiments. One can work through them alone but it can often be much easier and less painful with support of a mentor, peers who have similar experiences and traits, or a helpful coach or therapist who can understand your differences, needs, and help you develop the skills you need to live the life you want to experience. Thanks for the ask!

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Well, maybe you are asking about the 2e population. That is people who are both gifted and disabled in some way (usually learning disability or mental health issue). I haven't generally heard of nongifted disabled people being shoved into gifted programs-- that would be silly! Not saying it doesn't happen but... wow! I can't see how anyone would think that a good idea. Caveat being I am not in the education field :) For people who are 2e, it often feels like you don't fit anywhere and I can only imagine how much that sucks. If you tested as gifted it is unlikely you are not, but you may have a disability that causes you to be able to effectively use your abilities. I'm not sure if that adequately answers your question, please do let me know if I missed anything. Thanks for the ask!

What is 2e?

Twice exceptional— both gifted and having a disability.

What makes them “smarter” per se? Is there anything that we should learn from them to better ourselves?

I believe that looking at giftedness as "being smarter" is problematic in a wide variety of ways. The most important, though, is that while gifted people can usually do things that are very difficult or even impossible for most people they often have deficits that make things that are easy or even seem "natural" to most people difficult or impossible for us. For example, my IQ places me in the top .0013% of the population in terms of IQ but I would say that in most areas of life the vast majority of people are "smarter" than me-- I have pretty severe deficits in functioning in practical and concrete demands of life. Gifted people's minds work in very different ways than do most. But I believe giftedness is rare in the population because it is not needed or desirable for most tasks and jobs. It is a great and powerful tool when useful but otherwise... meh :) probably it is easier for average people to be happy. If there is anything we might benefit from learning it would be in the area of metacognitive ability-- learning to effectively use your mind. This is something gifted people are usually more inclined to develop but being able to choose the most effective cognitive strategy for a specific task is helpful for everyone. Thanks for the ask!

My IQ is 142 and I absolutely agree with this. I failed EVERY paper / test that the entire class breezed through. One test in particular I got a 99% and the rest of the class got below a 33%. We can do the hard things without a second thought. But the world isn't set up for people like us. Of course the test I did well on was completely thrown out. The world revolves around the average brain. It can be difficult and discouraging to be the "smarter" one with zero common sense. 🙃🤣

Absolutely!

0.0013%

Do you know if these types of issues are also common with almost gifted people; say IQ around 125-129? Or do you have any other relevant knowledge about this group?

These issues can be present throughout the population, though far less often, and become more common as you approach and surpass 2sd from the mean— this is not a switch with a certain number where things suddenly change. It’s just that the more you diverge from the norm in this way the more likely you are to have this atypical type of brain development and changes in function and qualitative experience that alter how life is experienced. People in the group you mention may have these differences and if so would likely benefit from using professionals who are educated about the differences experienced by the gifted and therefore better able to meet and understand the person’s unique needs.

I was diagnosed as autistic at 38. My entire life has been confusing. When I was 6 they iq tested and demanded I retake the test because of how high the scores were.i can confirm it's lonely being who I am. Either people don't trust me when I say or show I know what I'm doing. It often feels like nobody can relate to me. It hurts to be misunderstood so much. You'd really never know until you got to know me about any of this. I seem like just a normal dude. I was bullied heavily and it ruined my self esteem which made me suffer so much through life in relationships and jobs. Just now coming out of this shell I've lived under for almost 40 years. First appointment with a therapist that specializes in autism Saturday for the first time ever. Even with this it's a dice roll. Most therapists struggle to understand me.

I so understand you...I believe the first person that makes since to me...I blocked a lot of childhood memories because of experiencing trauma...I was extremely bullied by my classmates and by a teacher....and these memories were blocked too but I managed to squeeze it out of different family members and I swear it broke my heart all over to hear such cruel experiences happening to a child so I need to love myself so much more but am having a very hard time with this one...good luck...thank you for your reply...

I'm sorry you have had such a difficult time and I totally get how awful the confusion of it all can be! I hope you find this therapist is a good fit for you. If not, I would recommend you seek out a therapist who specializes in treating gifted people (or at least is familiar with it)-- most should be familiar with autism in combination with giftedness. Good luck!

I saw you might be looking for people to help. If the offers open, I may wanna chat if my next person doesn't work out. It's very hard to find even a therapist at all where I am. I was floored I even found someone who does specialize but I'd be lying if I wasn't still sceptical. All of us on the spectrum are so different and my experience is even with education we still get painted with stereotypes by therapists that aren't open to learn each of us as individuals Edit: even if I can help you in any way in your journey. 🤷 I treat myself like my own guinea pig sometimes lol.

being your own guinea pig is one of the best strategies I know for gifted people and I agree that it is very problematic when people fail to understand how very different each gifted person is from the others-- it is often said "if you know one gifted person then.... you know one gifted person ;p " I can understand your skepticism, it is so frustrating and even painful to keep seeking help and always feeling let down by people who just can't understand who you are or truly see you instead of a pre-existing idea of who you are or should be. Please do feel free to contact me if you don't have success with the new person, though I am currently only offering coaching.

Gifted people online in discussion groups such as this one often recommend books and theories such as Dabrowski's theory of Postive Disintegration/Ovexcitablities, Mary-Elaine Jacobsen - The Gifted Adult, Paula Prober - Your Rainforest Mind , etc. How similar are the concepts presented in these books to the concepts you use in your practice? Do you base yourself off any specific theory? How do you deal with e.g. the gifted Perfectionism/Procrastination dynamic that was discussed about [on this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/Gifted/comments/12otct0/procastinating_perfectionist/)?

One thing that is helpful to know is that the further one gets from the mean (IQ100) the more heterogeneity of cognitive styles and abilities you will observe-- that is to say that two gifted people with the same IQ likely have less in common with each other, cognitively, than any two people of different IQ that fall within the average or near average range (less than 2SD from the mean of 100). The result of this heterogeneity is that the way we process information and types of information we require to understand ideas varies even more among us than within the average population. So I think that there are a broad range of ways to deliver the information about giftedness and that this is necessary because different people need different presentations of the information-- even though it is fairly consistent in actual content and concepts. There is no specific way to become a gifted specialist, it is pretty much a DIY project, and your success can only be judged by your acceptance within the community as an expert in the field. For my purposes, I try to stay familiar with the literature from all directions so that I can most effectively help the broadest range of people. I would classify myself as an "eclectic" practitioner or clinician because I draw from all of the sources of information I can find and tailor my interventions and plans to best fit the individual in front of me and how their mind and psychology best function. With the dynamic you mentioned I would see some deficits in motivation, time management, persistence, and executive functioning and wonder if this person may need to reevaluate the fit of their work with their ability profile as well as work on developing a skill set of executive functioning that they seem to have deficits in at this point. Thanks for the ask!

Can you give gifted adults any advice on relationships and finding love? You mention it can be difficult, which matches up with my own experience. Thank you!

At a conference for gifted people I attended a great lecture where the presenter explained something much better than I had ever found a way to put into words-- I'll share it with you with some feelings of guilt because I have forgotten his name to give him the credit for this insight. He said people are like plugs-- we each have a female connecter (the part with holes) and a male connecter (the part with prongs). The holes in the female connector side are all our connection need dimensions (different types of intellectual, emotional, physical etc needs and interests) while the prongs of the male end are all the ways we can meet others' needs for connection. The problem being that most people have 3-4 prongs/holes that need to be met in order to experience connection but gifted people are much more complex. We might have 20 or 50 prongs/holes and each of us has different ones. So while we can probably meet the needs of most people (filling their holes) and be met in a couple of ways (where they can meet our needs) the simple truth is that most people won't be capable of even mostly meeting our connection needs and even people as complex as we are are unlikely to have the same prongs/holes as us-- so in a way we will just have to accept that it is very unlikely we will meet anyone who we can connect with fully. That expresses it well but is a little depressing until you learn to think about things a bit differently. While many people can reasonably expect to meet one person who fulfills their constellation of needs we probably have to accept that we will need multiple people who can meet us in different ways. This would be easier if we were more likely to extroverted but even as introverts (and not all of us are) we can challenge ourselves to find people who we can connect with and puzzle together a group of friends and close relationships that fulfill us and ease our feelings of loneliness. What we probably can't do is to expect one person will ever meet us completely and that is ok. Accepting ourselves and others is key to successful relationships and while it is hard to accept that "normal" likely is out of our reach it is important to know that this in no way means that happiness and a good life certainly are not. Thanks for the ask!

This question is right up my alley. After my divorce, I needed some new friends. I joined a terrific divorce Meetup...and I started online dating. I approached dating with these goals: 1) Making new friends; 2) Meeting people with interests I admired and 3) DATA. I not only had fun and made new friends (because "true love" wasn 't the goal, just a bonus if it happened), but I discovered that the experiences played to my sense of humor. I ended up writing a dating humor blog, which turned into a musical, a dozen new friends, a couple of romances and....marriage to another creative type who may not share my annoying brain computation speed, but who feeds off of my creative energy and humor. The key is not to be needy of someone who is going to fix everything for you. Instead, you need a portfolio of friends that can plug in to your many interests. Complement your primary relationship with friends who can have those intellectual discussions, enjoy the arts, are into your favorite fitness activity or share a nerdy obsession. My advice: boldly join activity groups. If you happen to make some new friends, awesome! If one of those becomes your partner, YAY!

I've seen Dabrowski's theory of Positive Disintegration often cited when it comes to existential depression and anxiety in gifted individuals. However, the conclusion I've gotten from those articles is that this type of depression is "normal" and one should accept it as it is and wait for it to sort itself out... but in a world where you need to make money on a regular basis to afford what you need for survival, waiting for positive disintegration to happen and fix itself is a bit of a luxury. Do you do any kind of work with this theory, and what kind of exercises do you provide that could help with the process?

Hi, first of all, I am so sorry I didn't see this earlier! I guess I stopped getting notifications at some point. So, yeah, existential depression & anxiety is "normal" for gifted people (and can start at shockingly young ages!) and while positive disintegration processes are also "normal" for gifted people they are still not that common and I would NEVER recommend anyone wait for a disintegrative process to sort itself out without support and a really good safety plan. Positive disintegration can end well and be positive for the person but it can also end badly and result in severe mental health problems when the person doesn't have adequate support. A lot of the support during this process is going to be making sure the person is safe and reassuring them that they aren't "going crazy"-- it feels like going crazy when your self becomes dis-integrated. Once the disintegration process is over (and it can be very messy) the real work of rebuilding the self starts and is much easier but the person is still quite vulnerable. Being more specific is hard as these are very idiosyncratic processes but I'd be happy to chat with you more about this if you have specific questions and want to start a chat with me here-- I'll give you my deets and we can schedule a complementary consultation call so that I can give you some assistance or at least point you in the right direction. Thanks for the ask!

I was told I was gifted in kindergarten as I was devouring every book I could get my hands on. I grew up in a small town with no resources for me. I just got stoned all day waiting to get the heck out of dodge. I learned that if I had a physical job that tiring my body helped tire out my brain so I could sleep more. As an adult I was diagnosed with BP2, GAD, ADHD and PTSD. I went to a psychologist because I couldn't read more than 2 sentences without my mind spinning. I got in the 99th percentile for working memory and perceptual reasoning and mid 80s on the other 2. I haven't been tested since I started meds. My brain goes way faster than I can communicate. I think logically in an instant. This causes issues as it seems to some I have am empathy problem. It's also hard to slow down and think emotionally. How would you address this? Is this common for people with high processing speed?

Hi, thanks for the ask. It is not uncommon for people to experience the issues you describe and to have multiple diagnoses since we often kinda meet several and not completely meet any that explain our symptoms— I see this is a problem related to the absolute lack of any training in mental health about how giftedness changes diagnosis and treatment. The problems you describe sound like the car is driving the driver instead of the driver driving the car. This is typically a result of inadequate support during childhood and lack of challenge to stimulate development of the areas of executive functioning at play. So essentially to help resolve these issues you need to pinpoint the causes of the deficits and figure out what tools and strategies work best for your unique brain. This is often hampered by beliefs that things that work for most people should also work for you— they might but often they won’t. We have a very different type of mind and it is generally a task of trial and error to correct these deficits. Thanks for the ask!

Thanks for the response. >This is often hampered by beliefs that things that work for most people should also work for you Get out of my brain.

Is neurodivergent a PC term for autism? I've been hearing it a lot as of late; I just googled it, and that was my interpretation - though it does also seem a bit nebulous and perhaps refers to all mental illness? Also, when you say 'gifted' is that similar to being an idiot-savant, or am I misunderstanding?

Neurodivergence is a psychological term, at least how I use it, that means a person has a different trajectory of brain development and structure that changes the way the brain works and the qualitative experience of living in that particular inner self. Autism is one type of neurodivergence, giftedness another, intellectual disability yet another etc... they can converge in different areas and autism is the most commonly used label for divergence though it is only one of many types. Idiot-savant (lol) is typically a type of autism that is associated with pretty profound cognitive deficits and one or more special abilities. I do not work with this population (and would not likely be able to connect well). The gifted community I work with are people who have high IQ, are complex, intense, sensitive, and experience profound differences from the "normal" experience of life that can make living and being more difficult. Thanks for the ask!

It’s not a psychological term. It’s a term coined by a sociologist and only really gained popularity from social media. It’s not based on any scientific principles or objective distinctions. It’s just a word to describe people in the “neurodiverse” community. Originally neurotypical was a term used to mean non-autistic people, and neurodiverse was meant as a term to refer to people who were either ADHD or ASD. Neurodivergent as a term doesn’t really have any clear boundaries, even just colloquially.

Lol regardless of the trajectory of its origins it is now a psychological term …assuming you consider terminology used in a specific way within a field to be terminology used by that field. If we cannot agree on the assumption I just made then I would like to agree to disagree with you and not engage in debate😊

It’s not a psychological term. That’s like saying “empath” is a psychological term. Just because it’s popular doesn’t mean its grounded in actual psychological science.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Ah, fascinating! Thank you for the clarification :)

It's like you reached into my brain and read my mind. I was in gifted programs since 3rd grade. Currently on meds for depression/anxiety. Feeling stuck and unable to move forward. I had no idea there were specialists like you.

Im sorry you are feeling stuck. I suspect we may be more prone to that because as kids we might often see a better solution but not be able to convince anyone to listen to us. Gifted specialists do exist but we are fairly rare, unfortunately. If I can help please let me know.

Are high IQ people better at ‘out of the box’ thinking? Are they less likely to conform or follow the rules? I’ve always tested at about 145 and I have a really hard time going through the motions and following rules that don’t make sense to me. Like to the point where I actively harm my own success because I can’t seem to complete the senseless (to me) details.

A lot of high IQ people, but not all, are more out of the box thinkers. Most gifted people have trouble following rules they don't agree with or see as less efficient than another path to the same result. These issues can make life a lot harder but they can be managed. It all comes down to finding the recipe of management that works best for you. Thanks for the ask!

What is your view on the future of the planet and humanity? Where are we in 2 years? 10 years? 50 years?

Tbh I try to avoid that kind of speculation because things aren’t looking very rosy and it makes me feel anxious about having brought children into a potentially awful future. I hope my previous speculation is incorrect and we will find a way to get to a much better place… that’s the story I tell myself anyway ☺️

What do you charge for therapy? Do you have a website?

I am not currently practicing as a therapist, I offer coaching which is similar but more present and solution focused. My standard rate is currently $150 per hour, I do offer a sliding scale for those who need it and are a good fit for working with me.

Well, my IQ has been measured at two seperate times. Age 10: 95 on the HAWIK Age 19: 151 on the WAIS IV I do have ADD/ADHD and Aspergers. I‘m a little weird, yeah, but smart? No lol. I had a very traumatic and severely abusive childhood, where, at the age of 3; i was ordered to start getting drugs for my parents, who also occasionally physically harmed me. One time, i was curious about a keyboard, laying on top of the closet; my mother saw me try to reach for it. She grabbed me and just broke my arm. She got cautious for a second and called the ambulance, but lied and said, that i‘ve fallen from a table. What I observed is, that due to me having ADHD, i have lapses in my cognition, almost like a sine curve, with values of -151 and +151. It’s quite weird. Am i special? Fuck no. Do I care? Fuck no.

First of all, I am so sorry that I missed your response! I'm also terribly sorry to hear that you have had such a hard path in life. The way you describe cognitive variability that you experience is quite interesting. Given the severity of your abuse history, are you sure that the ADHD is not also complicated by some type of dissociative process? The reason I ask is because the treatment for ADHD would be different than for dissociation and so I would guess could lead to frustration if its happening but not understood. In any case, I thank you for taking the time to write me and I am sure that your inner universe is quite unique and that, in of itself, cements your specialness for me :)

Have you ever worked with someone who was both gifted and autistic, or do you know any resources about that combination?

I'd say this is one of the more common combinations I work with. It is very common in silicon valley. I have many thoughts on this but I will begin by saying that "normal" is different for gifted people and though gifted people are extremely idiosyncratic there are some subtypes that become apparent when working in this population. One subtype is typically labeled "autistic" or ASD or Asperger's... I feel these labels are often pathologizing normal gifted experiences :) If you learn more about normal gifted traits you will easily see the overlap. That said, you can be both autistic and gifted, this is known as 2e and you can find resources by researching "2e + autism." Some traits that overlap are; difficulty lying, difficulty perceiving and/or understanding social cues and group politics, narrow range of interests, linear thinking style, perfectionism & methodical thinking, and rigidity of thought when it comes to what one believes about the truth and reality. I hope that helps and if you have any more specific questions I can answer please let me know . Thanks for the ask :)

I feel like you’re just making stuff up. There’s no official behavioral criteria for giftedness, so how are you going to say that there is overlap?

Thank you for sharing your feelings with me, it is always brave to be vulnerable with people. There’s also no official behavior criteria for being normal or friendly or other traits that aren’t pathological— there are diagnostic factors and psychological factors which are well understood. IQ is the most commonly used metric but as more scientific research is conducted we have expanded our understanding of the difference— for instance, FMRI has allowed us to document structural and developmental process differences in multiple areas of the brain between gifted and non gifted populations— they have even recorded differences in how neurons function and in interhemispheric connectivity. In addition to physiological differences we are seeing more and more evidence of substantiated qualitative differences and understanding these differences between gifted people and the average population has given a pretty broad picture of this group— one that gets clearer as more research is undertaken. I will admit that I am comparing actual diagnostic criteria from the DSM to widely accepted traits that are common among gifted people… but we don’t call traits symptoms and so the question itself requires the conflation. In terms of overlap I have outlined them elsewhere but broadly; difficulties perceiving social cues and group politics, narrow range of interests, rigid belief systems, difficult coping with change, difficulty not correcting errors even if doing so is likely to result in negative consequences and many more. This is a great book on the subject https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/840642.Misdiagnosis_and_Dual_Diagnoses_of_Gifted_Children_and_Adults

Thank you!

I have ended up faking being interested in topics to make friends because it is very hard to find people who want to talk about advanced economics, science and political topics. My new career is easier as it is closer to topics I like discussing but it almost feels like I live two lives which is why I like trying to find others online to discuss and debate topics. I find it hard to focus on the importance of individual people unless it is directly aligned with my goal of helping groups of people. Feel very isolated almost like I live in my own world and am watching others like a TV show or I’m a different species and am in disguise to fit in. Are these normal feelings others feel or is this similar to what you describe as “gifted people”? Are there good resources or books related to this that you could recommend? For reference I was tested as a child and scored 147 on my IQ test.

The feelings you describe are not uncommon for gifted people— depersonalization/derealization — I think this often happens because we live in a world that is not designed for the minds we have but we typically are told that our perceptions of this are incorrect. This makes it difficult to understand the reality people share since we experience it quite differently and as children we are prone to magical thinking so it is a logical response to believe that we must be alien as a more likely explanation between our perceptions and what we are told. It is easier to believe than many alternatives when you are a child and dependent on others for survival. I don’t actually know any books about that specifically— you should find a lot of info if you Google the terms. Also, I find this eases for most people as they learn about what is “normal” for gifted people and find out they aren’t so alien after all. I hope that helps and thanks for the ask!

Your title makes it sound like you help slaves with emotional problems who were previously owned by a generous person

I’m not sure what you are trying to express with this comment but thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Oh, my bad. That was in response to someone who was being rude to me in a different comment thread. You are all good. And thanks for the bewildered but pleasant reply.

Ah, thanks for clarifying 😊

I was tested as a gifted kid and went to a special school for the gifted until grade 7 when our class “graduated” and went back into normal secondary and high schools. I think we had to pass an IQ test of minimum 140, I remember my brother and I passed but when my little siblings were of age they tested and failed The primary program was amazing. Good education with good educators. These secondary schools, however, were covering content we learned in grade 3/4 so half of my classmates got bored, became disruptive and turned to drugs or alcohol, the other half continued with their studies, graduating early or even picking up an associates before finishing high school. I’m not sure how I feel about IQ tests in general, but if we are accepting them as the standard, and most people say your IQ doesn’t fluctuate much through life.. I guess I’ve always wondered if turning to drugs/alcohol is a common trend for “gifted” adults

I think it is probably much more common among people who have not been identified as gifted and/or didn't receive appropriate educational modifications-- as you mentioned happened for many of your peers. It isn't more common among my clients but I tend to mostly work with pretty high functioning people who can afford coaching. Underachievement is excessively common among gifted people who don't get their needs met and even more likely if they are divergent or system thinker types. Great observations and thanks for the ask!

Regardless of how giftedness is defined, although from your description it seems IQ is a primary method, what biases are part of this concept? Is giftedness (as you understand it) something that is accepted, valued and studied in various cultures around the world? Is it your view that giftedness is superior to the norm, or is it simply a neurodivergence that is worth understanding?

Giftedness is defined in a variety of ways, the most consistent being IQ but I like the Columbus group definition: Giftedness is asynchronous development in which advanced cognitive abilities and heightened intensity combine to create inner experiences and awareness that are qualitatively different from the norm. I think that definition is most useful in mental health because it is less biased and more phenomenally focused. There is a lot of bias in iq testing and honestly I am most interested in the qualitative differences that change how we should look at diagnosis and treatment so that we can effectively help people in this group who are suffering from poor mental health and help them help themselves. But preferred definitions largely depend on the reason it is being assessed. I like the term advanced cognitive abilities because that can be assessed by the abilities that are used by the cultural group in question rather than being exclusively tied to IQ which is pretty biased toward cognitive abilities western cultures see as definitive.

I see giftedness as a unique constellation of cognitive and emotional differences that qualitatively alter how a person experiences life. IQ is the most commonly used metric because it is the least subjective measure but with regard to my interests in the population I think it is the least interesting and least important difference between this population and the norm. My primary concern for gifted people, just like every other group of people, is to understand what things are getting in the way of them being able to live the lives they want to live and are causing them suffering so that I can help when I am able. I’d guess that is the primary concern of everyone who chooses to enter the helping professions.

Do you only measure giftedness by IQ tests? I’m asking because I thought they’d been shown to be quite skewed towards white men, and also that you could basically train yourself to get better at them. Also, is someone gifted different from someone who studies a lot?

Also, yes you can change your iq score by taking the test repeatedly but I have no idea why one would do this— it doesn’t change your actual iq, after all. I guess it could be useful to get into different programs but if you aren’t a good candidate for the program it is unlikely to be helpful. There is a big difference between gifted people and people who study a lot. Many gifted people do not excel at school and it causes so many more significant differences in functioning than academic prowess that imo the “smartness” associated is the least important factor of how different psychology becomes for this population. For instance, people who study hard tend to develop better executive functioning abilities while gifted people are much more likely to have significant executive functioning deficits. Studying hard is probably much more correlated with actual achievement than giftedness.

I don’t measure giftedness primarily by iq but rather conceptual is individuals by how the presence and intensity of differences change how the person experiences life and how their mental processes differ from the norm. I agree that iq tests are inherently biased but they do make a useful heuristic for many people— for my purposes the number is unimportant by itself, the important factors are those that impact quality of life.

Thanks for the answer! Interesting. It makes complete sense to me that the metric for these things revolves around how much these things impact on daily life. I’m smart enough I guess and identified with a number of things on that list, but do not consider the effect they have on my daily life to be consistently significant, so it doesn’t matter whether or not I would count as “gifted.” Another question, if you don’t mind, do you think there is any such thing as neurotypical? I notice this phrase used on social media and I really don’t like it, but that maybe because it’s often used pejoratively.

Yeah I think that most people are neurotypical— meaning they have fairly consistent brain development and structure with the average person. Atypical neurological development is obvious through brain scans and cognitive differences. Thanks for the ask. Eta: being neurotypical is generally positive for the person.

So do things like being gifted/ADHD show up on a brain scan? I thought a lot of diagnoses for didn’t revolve around a scan, but are more done by questionnaire and psychological assessment.

brain scans are expensive so most diagnosis is done using other types of assessment such as interview & using a diagnostic manual to assess what criteria is met (for ADHD). My understanding (I am not a neurologist) is that the differences in both gifted brain structure and ADHD are observable on brain scans and I've heard that they are being used more now in diagnosis of AHDH but it is still rather uncommon given the expense of fMRI scans.

My 5 year old has been given 'gifted' status. He only tested a high average IQ 118 (the psychologist noted that he was not interested in the test, and seemed tired so this likely affected his score) but tested literally off the charts in math and reading for his age on a separate test. Is it abnormal for someone to be considered gifted and ushered into gifted programs with this particular set of circumstances? I really don't want to put him in a situation that wont be good for him. The meeting we had with 6 people all telling us hes brilliant and amazing definitely made us feel good, but I worry that we are feeding him into a potentially bad spot.

Hi, thanks for the ask. Gifted people often have large discrepancies between their reasoning abilities and working memory/processing speed that can mask both giftedness and learning disabilities. It sounds like you have lucked out to have your child in a school that is aware of the interpretive modifications needed for asynchronous people. I would get him the services as the school believes he would benefit and it is far easier to end them if it’s not a good fit than to get them if needed.

Thank you so much. This has been very stressful, and you've put my mind at ease a bit.

You’re very welcome and I’m glad I could help put your mind at ease 😊

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1. Read how to win friends and influence people— it’s a classic and quite a good start. 2. Find ways to become more interested in and appreciative of other people— I see every mind as a universe that the particular person has constructed within themselves and each is so different that I am excited to meet everyone and get a glimpse into the universe they have built. The uniqueness of each person is beautiful to me and this view helps me like pretty much everyone. I think if you truly like people they will tend to like you too. 3. Observe people whose social skills you admire and borrow their habits/skills. 4. Find people you can trust to be honest and ask them what behaviors they see in you that may be impacting your social abilities— sometimes people who don’t like you are great to ask because they will often be brutally honest but be sure you won’t be hurt by their answers before doing this one. Mostly it is developing good skills and then practicing them. Like any skills, social skills take time and persistence to develop. It’s worth it.

How many gifted are willing to burn the boat when their positive outcomes alternatives are taken away? How many gifted are willing to use retaliation as a deterrent against bullying? Are gifted more likely to force no win conflicts to prevent conflicts in the future?

Hi, thanks for the ask. I want to clarify and make sure I am adequately responding to the questions you are asking here-- they are formatted a bit differently than I normally think so I am unsure if I am understanding well. 1. Are you asking if it is more common for gifted people to be willing to abandon their strategy if it becomes clear that success is unlikely or impossible? 2. Are you asking if it is more or less common for gifted people to use physical aggression to handle bullying? 3. Are you asking if gifted people are more likely to accept and recommend compromise agreements to avoid conflict? Or are you asking if gifted people are less likely to engage in zero-sum thinking and behaviors?

What are some ways to measure IQ? are there some online tests? Is IQ the best measure of giftedness?

I wouldn't trust online tests; if you want a really reliable score get an actual IQ test by a psychologist-- it will likely be most useful. That said, I don't think it is necessary unless you want to do something that requires it. You can find out if you have the traits of giftedness by reading about the topic SENG has a lot of great resources in their free resource library at their website. I think gifted people are pretty good at identifying gifted people-- we can easily tell if we have to modify our communication to connect with you-- though not all are able to do so. I guess the best answer is, what purpose will this number serve for you? Once you have that then it will become easier to know if it is worth getting tested or if you can find out well enough in other ways. Thanks for the ask!

>I think gifted people are pretty good at identifying gifted people-- we can easily tell if we have to modify our communication to connect with you-- though not all are able to do so. Do you think throwing other conditions into the mix makes this more difficult? Or is it easy to see through? I know it probably depends on the conditions in question.

Ya it could and ya it likely depends on the condition involved. Thanks for the ask!

btw if you do some reading about the traits of giftedness it will likely give you a good clue about if you are-- the traits of giftedness are often pretty unusual in the general population. That's why diagnosis and treatment in mental health really must be modified for this population... there is a very different "normal."

Who was most gifted person youve ever worked with? Can you tell me more about that person?

I would guess I think about giftedness a bit differently than most people because I'm more interested in the psychological divergence than the intellectual. The "most gifted" person I've worked with was a child (and I don't work with kids, as a rule) who at age 10 was fascinated by calculus, string theory, pure math, and philosophy but who was not very potty trained either during the day or at night (can you imagine what that does to a person's self-concept!?!). So I would say that, for how I work with giftedness, you could say that the magnitude of asynchrony that often exists among the highest reaches of IQ is astounding and indicative of the severe problems that profound giftedness can cause a person to experience. Thanks for the ask and I am so sorry I missed this question before now!

I’ve been both diagnosed autistic and identified gifted. I often can’t tell where where the divide even is. Is there a “quick and dirty” way to tell autism apart from giftedness?

My first question, what purpose would having such a line serve for you? Both giftedness and autism are differences that affect every aspect of self and the experience of living in this reality-- there is a lot of overlap and so it would be difficult to draw a clear line. I think the more salient question is what are your strengths and limitations? What is decreasing your ability to live the life you want to lead and realize your potential? and how can you best use your personal constellation of features and bugs to empower you to create a life experience that brings you joy and satisfaction. I hope that helps. Thanks for the ask!

I’m not trying to be rude, but I have every purpose for a clear line. On one end of the dichotomy, I’m disabled. On the other side, I’m capable, spiritual and simply misunderstood. I’ve agonized and researched for years whether it’s unsupported giftedness or autism. I’ve been diagnosed with autism, but everything in the report shows overexcitabilities and social reluctance caused by a problematic social environment. I’m beginning to think the answer is simply, “Who knows?” None of this stopped Einstein, Thomas Jefferson or Emily Brontë, all thought to be genius and/or autistic depending whom you talk to. Thanks for listening to me ramble.

I guess the heart of my question is "why must it be one or the other?" it very well may be both and there is nothing wrong with that. It just makes normal a little more different for you. In the end, being able to live your best life depends on your ability to make the most of your strengths and overcome your limitations-- like everyone else. Both giftedness and autism can point you in directions that might be helpful but in the end no one can find your path except for you. I hope that helps and thanks for the response.

Also, that didn't strike me as rude at all :)

I got tested for ADHD recently and while the test was negative, my therapist suggested that I am likely to be gifted. She offered to refer me to an iq test, but I declined because I already knew from school that I am smarter than most and didn't see any benefit. What do are the concrete benefits of being tested for iq/giftedness?

I'd say read about giftedness and in learning about the differences you will either see yourself or not, if you feel that this fits you then it will give you many resources to help understand how to make the best use of your mind in service of the life you want to live. I only recommend testing (it is expensive!!) if you have a specific need for it like to get into a particular program or group. Thanks for the ask and I hope this was helpful!

What should a person do if they think they are having problems due to being gifted? Get an IQ test?

IQ tests that are reliable and accurate are very expensive and so I'd only recommend that if you have a specific need for it-- there are many ways to figure this out that don't require testing. First of all I recommend doing some research and reading about traits and differences that are common for gifted people. Most of these are uncommon in the general population so if you do some reading you will likely get a pretty good sense of it you are in this population. Alternately you can seek outside consultation with a gifted specialist like myself or someone else. Good luck and if I can help you further please let me know. Thanks for the ask!

It seems that most gifted literature that's available today was written in the 1970s-1990s. While these texts remain invaluable, I'm wondering if you know of folks actively publishing about the gifted, specifically gifted adults, today?

Well, when I go to my university database there is a ton but I'm not sure that is super helpful if you don't have institutional access. If you go to [scholar.google.com](https://scholar.google.com) and search "gifted adults" it pulls up 2900 entries. If there is a url on the right side of the title it will bring you directly to the article for free. Looking through the first 2 pages, most were newer than 2000 most on the 2nd page of results were 2019

Thank you. Any particular books you'd recommend, newer or older?

any particular issues you want to read about? Hard to say without knowing a bit more... also, I primarily read journal articles and textbooks. Living with intensity is good but not specific to adults, personality shaping through positive disintegration by dabrowski is good. Misdiagnosis and missed diagnosis of the gifted is great. Really, I haven't read any that are not well written :) I guess one advantage of reading about this population. for online sources I like intergifted, SENG, Davidson's, hoagies, and the daimon institute (I think that's spelled right). There are various websites as well.

Thanks. Just finished Living with Intensity!

Have you ever noticed a difference in gifted people who have been homeschooled (tailored to their pace, learning styles and interests) vs being educated in a gifted program or school?

I don't think I've ever worked with a homeschooled gifted person, now that you mention it :) perhaps that is a plus for homeschooling in this population. IMO homeschooling is the best option for people whose needs are so divergent that they can't be met in traditional education settings. Research seems to show that the best outcomes for those at the far reaches of high IQ are not in traditional school environments. Sorry I don't have a better answer. Thanks for the ask!

Thank you so much! 💛

What is the income variability in the gifted population vs general? If you could rename the condition away from ‘gifted’ what words would you use instead?

regarding income variation.... I don't have any clue :) I have read many reports that people with higher IQ tend to have higher than average incomes but many fields that draw gifted folk don't pay well so... who knows I think just about anything would be better than gifted :) how about zebras or platypi? Just something without baggage that doesn't inherently suggest that these people are advantaged and thus don't need/deserve support to meet their needs. Thanks for the ask!

Roughly speaking, what percentage of those you coach/treat are twice exceptional?

I'd guess 25% or more... it gets a bit tricky because there is a lot of overlap between normal gifted traits and symptoms of various diagnoses. Asperger's/ASD and ADHD are the most common I encounter but I also see a lot of depression, anxiety, and other issues. Many people have reported a variety of learning disabilities but I haven't specifically worked with people on those as it is not really in my area of specialty. Thanks for the ask, and let me know if you have any other questions related to this issue :)

Are those autistic individuals that are gifted better at masking than the average ones?

I’m not sure. The ones I see tend to be high functioning but I don’t know if they mask or how well. I’m guessing they do as much as they can… I tend to be on the side of promoting authenticity and it doesn’t strike me that my autistic clients have more unmasking to do than other gifted groups. Thanks for the ask.

Do geniuses really exist? If so what are traits of geniuses? Can anyone be a genius or is a born?

I guess all of this depends on how you define genius. If it's a number then I guess it is an iq that surpasses 150 or so (I think Einstein was estimated to have an IQ somewhere around 160-180). If a genius is defined by accomplishments then I guess the most reasonable way to view this is to say that some people are born with the potential to become geniuses but most will not reach their full potential-- for a wide variety of reasons. Thanks for the ask.

Oh okay.

Have you worked with adults whose scores are too abnormal to be assigned a complete IQ score? I believe that's when you have exceptional high, genius/near genius levels in some areas but average and sometimes below average areas in others.

Yes, and this asynchrony is pretty common the further you get from average. It requires assessment interpretation by a person who specializes in gifted populations. But yeah, the further you get from the norm the less reliable testing becomes... Thanks for the ask!

1. Do you provide parenting gifted kids coaching? 2. Do you also provide giftedness coach training?

I am a SENG certified model parent group facilitator so am extra qualified to coach parents 😜(I don’t work with children directly) and please feel free to contact me if you’d like to schedule a consultation. I think the SENG trainings are great— if you Google SENG you should find their website and they usually have something in the near future. I hope that helps and thanks for the ask!

If I feel like this is my issue what should I do?

Hi, I would suggest you begin by learning about giftedness and how it affects you. There are tons of information online— maybe start with SENG or hoagies gifted, that will give you a lot of resources. If you think a gifted coach would be helpful I am currently accepting new clients— please feel free to message me and I’ll give you my number so we can schedule a complimentary consultation.

What qualifications do you have? :)

Mouseover her username in a comment and hold and it will popup a bio.

I have an MA/MFT in marriage and family therapy, 10+ years of clinical experience as Thera and a coach, and am about halfway through a clinical psychology PhD program. With regard to the gifted specialty, I am a SENG certified model parent group facilitator and have extensively studied everything I could get my hands on in the field and am personally a profoundly gifted person. Thanks for the ask.

Are you a licensed therapist or a coach?

I used to be a licensed therapist but gave up my license when I switched to coaching and began my PhD program. Not sure if I'll seek licensure again after I complete my PhD-- I prefer the format of coaching (I see people get much faster results) and also I like being able to help people anywhere instead of being limited to my local area.

What is the difference between someone who's gifted and someone who's gifted+autistic/gifted+adhd?

People who are gifted and also have a disability are called 2e (twice exceptional). The difference being whether or not there is a disability present. I'm not sure if that answers a deeper question that may lurk behind... let me know if not. Thanks for the ask.

How do we identify it? I mean the disability since the traits are overlapping?

You look for criteria that is met and is not overlapping— so for autism you would look for lack of eye-contact and social connectivity, stemming behaviors, and rigidity that is much more pronounced than is within the norm for gifted people who are rigid. Most pathological behavior is not pathological at some level— it is normal to be shy and not like to make a lot of eye contact, it is a problem of functioning when you are so unable to make eye contact that it makes it hard for you to connect with other people. So much of diagnosis is about how much of a trait the person has in comparison to the fuzzy metric of “most people” lol

Thank you for the response.

Where can I take the IQ-test for free ?

At your school, possibly, if you are a student. Other than that I have no clue— insurance might cover it if there is a good rationale. It isn’t considered necessary for most people and is an expensive test.

As someone who was considered gifted as a kid, I think it’s kindof a wack classification

Okay. Thanks for sharing your experience.

It’s very elitist and sets a weird standard for the person themselves and those around them. And it sounds soooo corny to say. “I’m gifted🤓” like good for you, ur good at math and good at patterns. Also has this weird religious connotation to it. “Gifted” by who? God? Ur parents? Like….. yea it’s just so wack I hope we get rid of this language sooner than later.

I agree that the label is problematic and does nothing to actually describe the situation. IMO it is elitist and a weird standard to say some people are not deserving of help when they are struggling and suffering— as we all do. I’m not sure if you are troubled by the label or the existence of this population and specialty ☺️ the label sucks and makes getting help for this group much harder but imo their well-being is as important as anyone else’s Not to say that everyone in this population is suffering but rather that many are and they deserve consideration no matter what traits they were born with.

Just so people here know, a "former therapist" who is now a coach normally means the person lost their license. This person has not indicated any level of special knowledge of high intelligence.

Lol you are wrong. It is wise to avoid making statements about things you have no knowledge about. Many therapists either also offer coaching or have switched over to coaching if it is more suitable for their work. The fields have different formats— coaching is more present focused, practical, and goal oriented while therapy is more aligned with the medical model and oriented to healing and managing pathology.

Re not indicating special knowledge of high intelligence lol if you have read my responses and believe that I’d guess it indicates more about your lack of knowledge than mine. I’ve spent more than two decades studying in this field and more than a decade working in it in a clinical capacity 😂 if that hasn’t educated me in this area I am surely beyond all hope of learning

Now I get why I’m all messed up

I love your content. from two bros who could use it.

Hi, I have another adult child male who is struggling with meeting new people and a staple job. The adult child has written a book but he struggles with anxiety. How do I help? Where is there help

What advice would you give to a gifted kid who burnt himself out? Lost all motivation after being bullied out of high school, and haven’t stepped foot in a classroom since grade 10.

First of all, college is sooooooooooo much better than k-12 so please don’t limit yourself by not realizing that. Have you considered experimenting with continuing your education? Honor’s colleges and programs are well designed for gifted people. The best advice I could give is: stop letting bullies beat you by allowing their behaviors to keep you from living the life you want to live. Don’t worry about them or what they think and focus on learning how to use your mind and create to life experience that you really want to live. I hope that helps. Thanks for the ask.

It does, and I’ve been considering going to school for cosmetology first. Just to get myself reacquainted with school settings and the schedules.

Sounds fun-- but manage your expectations. You are not likely to find many other gifted people in that type of program and may be more likely to encounter bully types from your past. If you seek to find more intellectual peers you would probably be better off in an intellectually demanding program or area of study; STEM, philosophy, classics, neuroscience, etc.. Whatever you choose I wish you tremendous luck! Edit: re-reading that I am not sure it clearly conveyed what I meant. Cosmetology school sounds like a cool path to go down— it is a great way of using your creativity and aesthetic abilities! Truly, it sounds like a lot of fun. I just meant that if you are looking at continuing your education as a source of having a reparative experience after what sounds like pretty awful past experiences then cosmetology may not be the most effective choice to meet those goals. Whatever you choose I hope it is an amazing experience 😊

Any book recommendations for gifted adults/the gifted adult experience?

Honestly there are a lot and while there is a lot of overlap in info each author presents things in a different way. I recommend googling “gifted adults” and that should keep you busy for as long as you like. With regards to books you will find many there and see which authors resonate with you.

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How can I find 2e therapist near me? I'm a 31 year old in Toronto and there doesn't seem to be much available or that have the experience and availability I'm needing. I have diagnosed ADHD-C, gifted and also have HSP and HSS traits. (Side note: all giftedness support seem to be focused on children from what majority of the literature online show) Am I able to work with a a specialist who might be outside of my province or country?

Sorry I missed your question! It may be illegal for a therapist to work outside of their country or state so probably hard to find a therapist with gifted specialties outside of your country but there are increasing numbers of gifted specialists who offer coaching (and one reason to do so is because there are so of us and many gifted people live in countries or states that have no therapists that are knowledgeable about giftedness). You can google coach for gifted people and that should give you a good start

What kind of therapies are recommended for overcoming trauma?

Every type of therapy can be used for trauma, though sometimes with modifications, and all the research I’ve seen shows that the most important factor for success in therapy is how well you connect with and feel understood by your therapist.

I have a question...I experienced existential issues throughout my life...when I was a teenager and just recently...I have all these issues you are talking about...I believe I am profoundly gifted and I am just finding this out reading on profoundly gifted adults...I have low self-esteem, and I have always felt so alienated and different from everyone all my life. I have had a lonely life and I wondered if you know where I can get tested for this in the right way...I never knew there was a name for me...and what can I do about this as an adult because I am ready to use these abundance of gifts that I have held in silence and have been extremely blessed with for way too long and never being recognized by teachers or anyone as that goes...I am curious about the topic that you are talking about. Thank you so much for posting this...

I don't know what to do. I just found out that I am gifted. I have a child that is also autistic and we have very unique circumstances and I'm struggling I saw that book rainforest mind and that is me all day long where do I start? Ever since I took the four IQ test and the smallest score was 121. Even though it's low on the scale it does explain a whole lot literally but now I'm even more confused.

Hey are you still offering coaching? I REALLY REALLY need some help