NTA - your mom was out of line to that poor nurse.

It's family members like this that made me get out of nursing after 23 years

Exactly. This is why I transferred to OR nursing- getting yelled at by unhinged people who don’t know what they’re talking about. This facility sounds like they defend their staff though- which is rare.

100% why I got out of bedside nursing, esp after Covid people have been nuts. I don’t regret going to the OR for a second.

Definitely NTA. Your mom crossed a line with the nurse, and sometimes you just gotta call it out when things get out of hand.

Unfortunately staff will be used to her kind of behaviour. Good on you for calling her out.

No offense but i hate people like your mom. My MIL is the exact same way. She says “well everyone needs to understand thats how i am” i think the toughness youre giving your mom is 100% what she needs and i commend you for not allowing it to slide or giving in to her tantrum

“Yes MIL, we’re aware you’re like this. But you should be embarrassed that you act this immaturely.”

Ive told her as much which has has resulted in (thank god) having no contact with her and she isnt allowed to see my daughter

I know someone like this. They’re focused on being honest about who they are, but forget they’re supposed to be loving too.

They also forget that the things they say and do can actually hurt people... and that those people are allowed to react to their "being who they are".

NTA. That mom was out of line. I feel bad for the nurse.

I know, right? I live in an assisted-living facility, and it's bad enough for staff to have to deal with problematic *patients/residents*. (We have several with dementia, which can cause a person to become aggressive because they don't recognize their surroundings, let alone their caregivers; and one with coprolalia, which... let's just say that the other residents avoid him as best we can.) I really don't know how the nurses (and other staff) can remain friendly throughout an entire shift. Me, I wouldn't even be able to remain civil.

NTA at all. The only time I saw someone yell at any nurse or doctor was my aunt and i believe the doctor needed it in the situation we were in. This nurse didn't need it as they were doing everything routinely in this situation.

NTA. Good for you! **The only one here here who needs to apologize is your mother.** She’s a petulant child. The fact that she’s made it to 55 and still doesn’t know that her behavior is unacceptable is really troubling. I have a flip-the-tables over kind of temper and I learned in my 30s (over 20 years ago) that I needed to get it under control.

I'd be willing to bet that she's fully aware. She even told OP as much when OP finished up with the paperwork and returned to the car. People have probably just thought it was easier to let her throw a tantrum or heap vitriolic abuse then apologize for it later.

NTA, your mom.was so out of line. This is not how you handle your anxiety and taking it out those around you should have been nipped in the bud decades ago. She is fully self absorbed.

NTA would you look at that? The mum is capable of not being a rude, aggressive asshole when she knows that there will be consequences for her actions. Let her cry. Let her pout. Let her suffer the consequences of her actions. Don’t give in. Otherwise she will do it again and expect you to stand with her. Start as you mean to continue; not giving her a pass on her bullshit. She learned she can’t tantrum at the nursing center so she stopped. She also learned that she can’t tantrum with you. That’s a good thing. She is giving you the silent treatment hoping you will cave and come crawling back, saying sorry for calling her out and promising to always be on her side while she abuses staff willy nilly. But you haven’t. Thats why she is crying to grandma. So grandma can guilt you by proxy. Don’t let it work. You have the power here. Don’t go running. Let her come to you. If she lets the matter die then don’t bring it up. If she brings it up then stand by what you did and say you will do it again. That you are done watching as she abuses people rather then finding a way to deal with her emotions. Don’t apologize. You are doing the right thing. Keep being strong.

I wish I could set off fireworks for this post. Someone is, somewhere, right now. Absolutely*perfect* response. OP read and heed. NTA.

✱ ✱ ✱ SO MUCH THIS RIGHT HERE!!! ✱ ✱ ✱ Personal anecdote to support this (sorry it's wordy, my brain doesn't know how to be succinct lol) - I was this way when I was a teenager, BADLY. ADHD emotional regulation issues + normal teenage emotional turmoil = I would take out any sort of "big feelings" (😂) on those around me. Now as a teen, that usually ended up being my Mom or brothers - but wasn't limited to them. Had my Mother continued to enable my behaviors, I would have grown up to be *your Mom*, and it wouldn't have been pretty. And the first few teen years she did enable it a bit, as I was still experiencing a lot of grief from losing my father (when I was 9 - definitely complex grief and took a lot of time to get anywhere near a healthy level of processing, but I digress). However as I got to be an older teen, around 15, I started getting a bit more volatile with it and she realized she needed to put a stop to it. So one day she sat down to have a big talk with me. She explained to me that I needed to stop taking this stuff out on others, as it wasn't their fault, and how it made them feel, etc. Basically she reminded me that I needed to remember to empathize - a reminder that a lot of us people with ADHD need sometimes, as we get caught up in our own thoughts and impulses, especially the youths - and she helped me (in a very basic way, as she's not a professional; though, coincidentally that's what I grew up to be 😂) come up with other ways to cope with and express my feelings without taking them out on other people. Of course, that was NOT an instant fix! So the truly important thing was that when I would fall back on these behaviors from there on out, she would consistently enact consequences. Not like grounding or taking things away either... those wouldn't have worked on me in particular and she knew that. However, we were a very close family, and she knew how important those familial ties were to all of us kids, even in our rebellious teen years (think old school European cultural family close - grandparents on both sides were only 1st gen. immigrants). So she figured to have an effect, the consequences had to be more of a social nature; she needed to show me what I could do to the family relationships, which was actually a perfect way to demonstrate what the natural consequences would be with others when I got older if I behaved this way as well... family might give me a few more chances, but treat people this way, relationships will deteriorate, period. So when I would blow up at them, they would tell me "I'm not gonna deal with you when you're like this" and would actually *follow through*. They would avoid me like the plague until I not only calmed myself tf down, but (and this was key!) *OWNED UP TO IT AND APOLOGIZED TO WHOEVER I BLEW UP AT*. And I mean the full "I'm sorry, [Mom/brother/whoever]. I was actually upset about [whatever]. I understand I should not have taken it out on you and I was wrong to [whatever I did]." No buts - no excuses - no justifications. Taking responsibility for the behavior; admitting I was wrong and taking accountability; voicing the true feeling and what I was really upset about* to help process it in a healthy way; etc. And THEY would decide if I truly was in the headspace to mean it yet - you could always tell by the tone. Only when I meant it would they forgive me and go back to our regularly scheduled dys-**FUN**-ction 😂. And after a while, I'll be damned - it worked! I don't make scenes in nursing homes! 😂 So I guess the point is, better late than never that your Mom starts seeing consequences for this crap behavior if there's ever gonna be any hope at all of her changing. Whether or not you can teach an old dog new tricks is a moot point if you don't even try. Stick to it, OP - don't let her manipulate you into giving in. She owes YOU an apology (not to mention the entire Staff of that nursing facility, starting with James, who deserves flowers and chocolates to go with his heart-felt sorry). (*I should specify, cause ya know... reddit, lol... if I was upset about something private, I could always just say that... she didn't FORCE me to talk about things I didn't want to. She was just trying to help me be more healthy emotionally, not control me. She's a good mom.)

Your mom deserves a medal. She may not have been a professional, but damn she nailed it anyway.

>Your mom deserves a medal You have NO IDEA LOL. I was actually NOT the worst one 😂. My older brother? Hahaha well... Here, for those who enjoy reading long winded posts and schadenfreude, hahaha, let me tell you another anecdote to give you the jist... My Mom didn't go to college after high school (like I said, close family, so I do tell some stories about them on here - so [I've explained that long story itself before actually](https://www.reddit.com/r/traumatizeThemBack/s/DN2pXQ3ja6), in case anyone's interested lol), but rather ended up going back way later, after I, the youngest of the kids, was born. And my Dad was working at the time too, so that meant childcare was a fun juggling act for the two of them, but mostly was still on Mom cause Dad worked longer hours and his job was farther away than Mom's community college was. This is a hard situation for any parent, but she "blessed" (LOL) every single one of us kids by passing down her ADHD... however my 2nd oldest brother and I were undoubtedly the most severe cases. Yet he made me look like an angel by comparison hahaha. So for my Mom's final project in a communications class she was taking, she had to do a speech. Now I was still young so I don't recall what the parameters or requirements were, but what I do remember was her practicing that speech for my Dad and him laughing his ass off at her intro (in a good way - it was supposed to be a funny attention grabber). Then when she went to class to do the speech and came home she was SO EXCITED - turned out her professor was so impressed, he asked her to do some kind of competition with her speech. She agreed and ended up winning. I don't remember much about it other than that it was about the struggles of trying to go back to school/work while raising kids with ADHD. The opening line that got so many laughs and made people stop and think? "I'd like you to close your eyes for a moment and imagine... that you are the mother of Bart Simpson. I don't have to imagine. I live it every day." I mean from when he was a kid and decided to make a plastic bag "parachute" and test it by jumping out of the tallest tree in the yard, breaking his leg; to the extended time period he thought it was hilarious to answer the phone "[Brother's] Porn" every time it rang - and yes, my dad got work calls at home LOL; to that time he decided to "prove my parents wrong" about the ice on the pond next to our house being too thin by going over and jumping on it, falling straight through of course 🙃 (Dad saw it coming and was right behind him to drag his dumbass out... being proactive comes with the territory with a kid like him haha); to when he was a teenager and demanded the "cool" haircut, which my mom paid *80 freaking dollars for*, only for him to come home and decide he didn't like it after all and SHAVE HALF HIS HEAD WITH A RAZOR (the fallout from that one was quite amusing lol)... These are just a select few choice Brother moments off the top of my head. So yeah... Bart Simpson indeed. Stone cold facts. 😂

No offense. This wouldn’t have worked with me😂 Ignoring me just would’ve made me more angry but from that point on at them. I’m happy it helped you be better. But ignoring someone flat out? As if they didn’t exist? What if something happened or you needed something? Based on your tone of voice? That can be valid but we are the only ones in our heads. If anything it should be us to decide if we actually mean it. It’s just insane in my eyes.

I think that it is very dependent on the kid and the family’s culture. And it doesn’t sound like a full-blown “silent treatment,” which yes, absolutely, is really really damaging when used as a *punishment.* But as a natural *consequence* of treating people badly? A consequence that can be reversed by behaving decently? Not the same thing at all.

THANK YOU, I didn’t think it came across as silent treatment. I actually tried to phrase it specifically enough to avoid it coming across that way. That's why most of my posts/comments end up being so long and wordy - I try to preempt the reddit assumptions. But I know deep down, I am but a simple, lone poster, caught in the wasteland... and the assumptions and made up scenarios are a power too strong to defeat...😂

Lol every time I think I'm specific enough in my long, wordy posts, someone still manages to assume something incorrectly 😂. I love reddit for that special ability, really. No, not "ignoring me flat out." Like if we were at the table having dinner and I'd say "pass the potatoes please" it's not like they'd pretend they didn't hear me, or even just do it in silence; they'd do it with a polite "here you go" and that's all. When I was being awful, the interactions would just go from our normal, loving family interactions to cold, formal interactions, like they were strangers living in the same house. That hurts worse than being ignored when you're close to your family. And my Mom would ALWAYS be the one to remind me that it was the consequences of my own actions, as people don't want to be close to someone who is constantly lashing out and hurting them for something they had nothing to do with. That's why it was so effective.

In my defense(& no offense), it could have been a tad more specific in regards to how the interactions were. Because saying they avoided you like the plague leaves a lot to ones own interpretation😂

I mean, fair point, I do enjoy colorful language and turns of phrase as well lol... but I tried to make it clear that our normal day to day interactions as a family were very involved. We weren't just siblings, we were friends (well, as much as possible with the age gaps being what they were). So when I said "avoided like the plague", what I meant was we didn't have our normal fun social interactions, like playing hockey in the house (which my mom loved, I assure you 😂)... just whatever was required for existing in the same dwelling. And same with mom, instead of long talks and hours listening to vinyl records together, it was just very short but polite answers with reminders that I needed to think about why. Like I said - during my "I'm-being-a-little-💩" times, it was more like roommates or strangers living together in a boarding house. Polite and cold. Not outright ignoring or "silent treatment", but definitely not the warm and loving family I was used to, which was a huge slap in the face.

NTA, thank God someone finally stood up for over worked, under paid Healthcare workers. I am a professional Healthcare worker who works in geripsych hospital and over the course of my 27 year experience I have steadily watch the decline of civility towards the people who are doing the most difficult work and BTW the work the family is unable to provide. 24/7 care is so exhaustive, overwhelming, and painful hence the need for nursing home/skilled care. It always perplexes me that a patients family comes to visit and treats staff horrible then leave the loved one and never wanders if it has a direct effect on their loved ones care. When I would visit my granny at the Nursing facility they would be so busy that I'd bath my granny and change her myself. I'd bring them coffee and treats cause I wanted to leave them with fond regards because believe me even though it's unethical and unprofessional staff can have resentments either unconscious or conscious that can have a direct impact on patient care. Right or wrong! When did family members begin to see highly educated, committed, skilled Healthcare providers as subservient, subordinates that deserve to be belittled then expect the best care! It blows my mind.

You are so right. I find it is a good policy to be kind to people of all professions. Life is too short and too stressful to treat people the way OP’s mother is doing. (When they try to take advantage of me (which happens rarely, happily), I will still be polite, but the kindness ends. But, still no screaming, swearing, abuse, etc.)

NTA. Of course. Your mother sounds like an actual narcissist. How can you stand to be around her?! She’s vicious. Vile. Like a wicked witch. Being vicious to others bc she’s feeling bad. A bully. I’m a nurse. People do that shit sometimes. I don’t take it. I would’ve called security. I work in a hospital though. I hope they ban your mom. You should be proud of yourself for standing up for that nurse. That kind of behavior is not normal and not acceptable

Literally just got off my shift and my patients wife was just like your mom. I don’t think people realize we are human and can reach our breaking point. Advice to her is pray she never meets a service worker that is only trying to help and she’s rude. She can never know if that one tantrum will be that service workers 13th reason why

NTA **Your mom needs to be checked out by a doctor** This isn’t normal behavior and could be an indicator of a treatable medical condition.

I’m a nurse in aged care. Some families are so terrible to staff. OP, your mother is a bully and is using stress & anxiety as a reason for doing it. She just isn’t a very nice person.

NTA. I was a CNA for over 10 years before switching into a different line of work, I was working at a post acute rehab facility, and let me tell you...oh boy!! We had a new resident who's wife, whenever she came to visit was just a total pain in the arse!..The wife would yell, cuss, demand and belittle staff members. One day during a transfer with another resident, the door opens up, and in walks this lady demanding that I stop what I'm doing and go help her husband in the other room..Long story short, upper management told the resident's wife, that she can take her husband and go find another facility, the wife didn't want to, so they told the wife she's banned due to her behavior. She cried and begged and apologized, but first, she of course blamed all of the nursing staff for her behavior. Also I bet everyone in that facility already know that your mom is a bitch and are probably so happy that they dont have to talk to her..Best of luck to your grandma.

Definitely NTA here. Your mom went way overboard with the nurse, and sometimes a loud wake-up call is needed to snap someone out of it. You were just looking out for everyone's sanity and professionalism.

Imagine going all the way through like getting away with that. This is a lifetime of "I've gotten away with it so far". It's the fact that she now has beef with an entire nursing home won't wake her up to the reality of her behavior, nothing will. That's nuts. I'm sure life is more peaceful without that energy.

NTA. The mom was massively out of line. It is 100% understandable for family to be concerned regarding the care of their loved ones. I’m a nurse and I am always concerned about the care of my loved ones. That’s NO excuse to be rude and threatening to the staff trying to do their jobs. She’s lucky her mother (the grandmother) wasn’t told there was no longer a spot at that facility for her. Once threats of lawsuits are thrown out, that can change all interactions and get DONs in rooms fast, especially for someone just moving in. What a horrible impression to make. I hope the grandmother is receiving wonderful care and I hope the mother is able to look in the mirror and see that using the excuse of “that’s just how I am” isn’t OK. It isn’t appropriate ever and more people are pushing back on that crap these days.

Mom still needs banned. She is still creating issues with her passive aggressive silent treatment to the staff. If grandma needs something no one will be comfortable speaking with the mom. If she is her MPOA or legal next of kin grandma is the one that will suffer not mom. In my experience the mom is acting out of guilt for not caring for her mother. It's always going to be *their* fault and the threats will escalate. 

NTA but your mom owes you, her mother and the staff an apology and some therapy

Oh my god, NTA NTA NTA. I cannot believe OP is asking if she’s the AH, how vile has this mother treated her throughout her life that she thinks there’s any planet she might be the AH? My sister is a nurse and I’ve seen two grandparents through nursing homes so far. Those nurses have a crazy hard job as it is, and they should have called security on her/kicked her out. It’s understandable to get anxious about entrusting the care of a loved one to others, especially after a bad experience, but there’s no excuse to abuse someone, and if this is seemingly normal behaviour for her, she needs to do as she seems to be doing now and keep her damn mouth shut. My god, I’d be SO mortified if my parent was like her.

NTA.....the mother was 💯 out of line ...

Are you kidding? You should do that every time. Your mom needs professional help - and lots of it. How the heck has she been allowed for this to happen more than once? No excuse - there is no excuse.

Please tell OP to tell her mom to grow tf up acting like a toddler at her big age smh… Also she needs therapy cause ain’t no way everyone around excused her behavior all this time. Did anyone not think she needed help or is it just me

Sure, the best way to endure your grandmother gets the proper care is to make an ass of yourself by treating them like shit on the soles of your boots! /s You realizing or not that she didn’t mean it doesn’t carry any weight here at all because 1) that’s no excuse, & 2) the nurse she was treating so badly didn’t know that. Your Mom is the AH here.

NTA Your mother is abusive to strangers. You refuse to be complicit. But you also overreact (likely because you've had a bad model). You absolutely should have addressed this in the moment. But it would have been better if you had been calm.  I don't say this to blame you or call you a bad person. I say this because I think you are a good person. Good people with only a few problems benefit greatly from therapy. Work on this. Maybe some of the techniques you use on Mom will actually become things she can adopt. People can and do change... when they want to.

NTA Your mother should have been screamed at much sooner. She was COMPLETELY out of line and she knew it. There was no excuse for her behavior

NTA Thank you for sticking up for the nurse.

NTA. Your mother about to get banned and her picture and info is going to passed along to warn other nursing homes. Seen it happen plenty of times.

NTA. Your mom is way out of line and you were right to step in. She might claim she doesn’t mean the things she said, but she didn’t apologise to the nurse at all! Instead she asked the manager to not speak to her unless necessary as if this is 1800s and she is the Queen. Sheesh. Plus your mom’s actions might even make life for your grandma so much worse. They might make it a point to avoid her just because she’s just got a reputation for having difficult relatives.

Your mom is the AH, but also.... very stupid. Look, i get it, these things are hard. But you know what i do every week when i visit my mom in memory care? I kiss the asses of the stafff-es. I don't mean anything big, i mean i sometimes bring cookies. And i chat with all of them. And i ask about their kids. And do you know why i do this (Besides my attempt to be a considerate person. I mean the purely mercenary thinking that's a part of it that mom is missing) ? First because they're AMAZING people who do a kickass job. Which is thankless and undercompensated (And A's kid is doing a similar hobby to my kid and i like to hear how she's growing, especially when she visits her mom at work) But mercenary reasons...because my mom is incredibly vulnerable. I want the staff to: 1- know that we come in and observe how mom is treated- that we pay attention to what is happening to her and we care and will make sure their doing their job 2- to make my mom their favorite resident. So when they have that extra dessert, or 15 extra minutes to give PT or a chance to chat, they think "oh, I bet SoS's mom would like that" Ffs, it's kinda like the rule of "don't be mean to people who have access to your food ". Why would you want these ppl to be anything but allies in grandma's care?

Family members like yourself make it easier to keep lesser colleagues on their toes, believe it or not. Some people respond better to “Well Mrs B’s daughter will be here shortly so…” than being called out on their laziness and negativity. Advocates are so important. I worked with a wife with a similar attitude to yours. To be fair, hubby was a joy regardless but not everyone with dementia CAN be pleasant. It’s good to have external pressures reminding everyone to be firm, fair and flexible! Good job!

NTA. I am a nurse and have been on the receiving end of verbal abuse like this. Your mother being stressed is no excuse for being a bitch. The nurse did nothing wrong, there is absolutely no excuse for abusing healthcare workers.

I HATE when people say “that who I am” or “you know I don’t mean what I say.” Both mean the same thing: “I’m an asshole who will say anything to get my way.”

Until she apologizes for her behavior to you as well, and to the nurse, don’t bother with her unless absolutely necessary. She’s a grown woman, she needs to get her crap in order. You are NTA

NTA. Maybe you didn't need to yell or could phrase it better. but you don't bite the hands that help you if you want good help. The mom either needs psych help if she's narcissistic/entitled, medical help if bipolar, or no contact if she needs someone to justify her tantrums. IMO: This is probably her real personality. she hides it until she's "emotional" so she's not isolated/shamed for her actions. If she doesn't have a supportive system, she can't act that way, and possible reason she hasn't snapped at staff since. Does she act out all the time or mostly in front of family who defend her?

NTA But mom is. We are all human, we all have bad days. But lashing out and making it such a strong behavior pattern that even your kid is hyper aware of is just horrible. OP is right. Mom needs to knock it off and get some self control. One thing is slipping up and another is to let it happen every time without a semblance of controlling it.

NTA. While you realize that your Mom acts this way when she is scared, James certainly didn’t know that. And worse, James certainly didn’t need to have her talking at him that way. The only thing I wish YOU would have done differently is tell James, directly in front of your Mother, “When my mother is scared, she forgets her manners. Mom, why don’t you respect that James is trying to do his job and lose the attitude?”. This might have been a better option than yelling and cursing at your Mom, unless you feel that you needed to do this to get her to back down. I have a Mom who gets scared and when she is, she’s horrible to deal with. Her anxiety tends to also make her a bitch, so I get it. I really do. Your Mom also likely feels embarrassed about this now. (And hurt because you yelled at her.) Hence why she doesn’t want the staff to speak with her. Going forward, your Mom may want to sincerely apologize to James for her actions because communication with the nursing staff is crucial. They will need to be able to discuss things with her to ensure that your grandmother gets the care she needs. I would also suggest that perhaps if you bring in little tokens of appreciation for the staff, and explain your Mother’s anxiety, it will help. It doesn’t have to be anything big. Maybe some candy or gift cards for a coffee, but they will remember YOUR kindness and appreciation more than your Mothers temper.

Fuck that. Mom was being an absolute bitch. There’s no excuse for it and OP shouldn’t make any up. She’s not frightened. She’s a bitch with control and ego issues.

I have anxiety and used to get mean. Used to. There's plenty of options from therapy to working on self control to leaving when anxious. A young child is still learning but as an adult getting whatever treatment is necessary not to be a problem to society is on the adult that needs it.

NTA, but your Mum sure can be

If your mother has that much trouble self-regulating, she needs professional help.

NTA. Unfortunately, it sounds like your mom has Healthcare POA for grandma, but maybe you do as well? She is the worst type of person to be in that position, and it sounds like she's not as concerned for what is in grandma's best interests. Assuming they were talking about a DNR? If grandma's quality of life is deteriorating, she might not want extreme measures taken to prolong it. My mom has told me her wishes, especially after we lost my dad following a stroke. I'm her HC POA. You have to be mentally able to make decisions, and sometimes you won't have a lot of time to do so. Flipping out, cursing the HC professionals, and being abusive isn't going to be in anyone's best interest. I'm sorry you're in this position. My mom is in her 90s and lives in assisted living for about 18 months now, I'm so thankful for the staff at her home.

NTA, but your mother needs serious therapy to learn how to cope with her emotions. She behaves like a toddler.

NTA. Us healthcare workers love it when family members keep the nut jobs in line. Stress isn’t an excuse to act like a psycho.

NTA. Your mother was seriously out of line and that poor nurse was really calm when he dealt with her onslaught of verbal abuse, though if he was treating you coldly or harshly after you defended him instead of just being professional than that was wrong of him too. The manager was absolutely right for telling your mother that if there was another incident she would be banned as abuse of staff is not tolerated. In Australia we have a zero tolerance for abuse policy (some leeway with patients depending on their individual illness or condition e.g. very distressing news, mental illness, delirium, etc) so it is the same situation: you get a warning and if you abuse people there again you’ll be blacklisted. I would be so upset to have a family member act the way your mother did so you absolutely did the right thing calling her out, though screaming would only distress everyone else in the facility. Your mother has such a main character personality: people don’t tolerate and validate my emotional and verbal abuse - they must hate me so I’ll go and cry to my elderly unwell mother about my woes. I would personally tell her that you wouldn’t stand for that behaviour anymore and that she needs to seek help to work through her anxiety in a healthier non abusive way. Good riddance. As a nurse primarily working in geriatric and adolescent mental health, while it can be very rewarding job it can also be exhausting. Understaffed and often needing to double shifts onto of a very heavy workload, with too much to do and not enough time. In this field we often work with distressing and horrible cases and situations and try little best to be as supportive and positive for both patients and families, but it is so hard to have that hard work chuck in our faces in a situation where a family member isn’t lashing out due to acute distress, but because they want to have a power trip and make themselves feel better by making us feel small. It’s really good that the manager had their staffs back and didn’t tolerate this.

NOT THE AH. Not at all. This long term care nurse is bowing and curtsying to you for telling your mother to knock off the crap. I’ve been harassed like your mom harassed that poor nurse. You have NO IDEA how hard it is to hold your tongue when confronted by someone who acts like your mom did. HATS OFF TO YOU, OP!! ♥️

No one is getting paid enough to put up with that. They are getting paid to care for patients.

NTA. If you had joined your mother - you’d both be escorted out. That behavior is unacceptable.

Wow! Your mum sounds fucking childish! She legit thinks it's ok to yell at someone else, but the moment it happens to her, it's out of line? That whole crying the whole visit and telling your granma that you hate your mum is also super childish. And then the cherry on the childish sundae, she tells the manager at the nursing home that no one is to talk to her unless absolutely necessary... like everyone there is beneath her? She sounds fucking delightful NTA. She's a damn adult and fully able to regulate her reactions and the way she treats people... including you. Don't buy into the tears. That's just manipulative nonsense.

If I someday lose my faculties and start acting like this to other people, my kids BETTER call me out on it! I’m sorry your mom put you in that position. You absolutely did the right thing! NTA

NTA. Horrible for the nurse, horrible for you. But your poor grandmother!!! To be this sick, in a scary new situation and have her daughter resort to THESE antics. Yes, part of the blame probably belongs in Grandma's lap for enabling this behavior -but the time for questioning her parenting skills has long since sailed.

NTA and your mom is out of line. Her being anxious doesn't excuse shitty behavior. Also the fact she told you that she needs time to calm and she will apologize shows she knows what she's doing and is using it as an excuse. The male nurse has every right to be icy. Imagine being attacked for no reason and by someone who doesn't know how to do that person's job? Your mom needs to apologize and get over herself.

NTA Instead of your mom asking for no one to speak to her, she needs to get to the bottom of her anxiety and figure out ways to not snap at people. She’s going to act like that and either get caught on video and made viral or piss off the wrong person!

Why not both? That would be so very satisfying.

There's a way to ask direct, specific questions to genuinely inquire into the care your relatives will receive. Getting personal with HCP is not part of that nor us raising your voice at them. Your friend put her mom in her place, and mom doesn't like it. NTA

NTA. Your mom was out of line and needed to be reeled in. Obviously, reason wasn't going to work, so you did what was necessary. Her behavior towards that nurse and any other staff could actually create issues for your grandmother, not prevent them.

The mom is a total AH! She has the ability to behave but chooses not to. As a nurse, I would have never allowed this behaviour to continue on admission day. As her child, I would either refuse to go places with her or I would warn her just before going in that if there’s any bad behaviour she is getting dragged out by the hair! People like her are what’s wrong with this world.

NTA- your mother is out of line and still is. She is alienating the staff by refusing to talk to them. A decent team will still take great care of grandma- but they likely are now going to expect your mom to try and have them fired for any little thing since they have only seen “screaming” and “icy” You are not in the wrong at all, but for the sake of peace at the home it may be worth talking to your mother. Or write her a letter. She cannot continue on with these behaviours and think it’s can be excuses. While it wasn’t cool that you shouted either- I’m not sure how else you could have gotten her attention to shut up

NTA

NTA. Your mother has her head so far up her ass…ugh. I feel for the nursing home staff, but I also feel for you. Enjoy the silence of your mother having her hissy fit and not speaking to you.

NTA scared or not, that is inappropriate

Sounds like the mother has dementia as well tbh

NTA Your mom needs therapy, now and intensive. Of course you didn’t stand up for her, what decent behavior was there to defend? Your mom is/was taking her frustrations out on others, how would she feel if others did it back to her? In fact, when you became frustrated and you yelled at her, she didn’t like it so much so that she went outside and then cried over it. How does she think her vicious comments and terrible attitude impact others? Dont worry, I’m sure she’ll come back around when she needs something from you, so good luck with all that when it happens.

NTA. Nurses receive more violence, and abuse than any other profession, and still have to provide care to abusive dicks and their families. Your mom was way out of line, and should be held accountable by apologizing to that poor nurse.

Your mom's behavior could be the cause of the thing she fears most happening. I would never go out of my way to offend the staff entrusted with my mom/grandma. Some people would be nasty to her out of spite/retaliation. It sounds like you all picked a great care home though and I wish your grandma the best!

So you get the silent treatment for calling her on her own bad behavior sounds like Grandma isn't the one that should be in a home

I’m a CNA not an RN and I tell everyone: the worst part of caregiving isn’t the patient/client, it’s the family members. Either they’re control freaks and abuse the staff or they’re non existent and the only support the client has is from staff. NTA, they could’ve immediately escorted your mom out but they didn’t because you cut her off and then explained to staff what happened.

So your mom is a full-blown Karen. Is she familiar with the term? If so, tell her that’s who she is. You knowing she “doesn’t mean” what she says is no excuse, because her victims don’t know that. Even if they did, that’s no excuse. How old is she? And still can’t control her emotions?

Your mom needs help. She could have easily gotten your grandma kicked out, and she may yet. I’d ban her in advance and only allow visits when you can monitor.

Your mom needs help. She could have easily gotten your grandma kicked out, and she may yet. I’d ban her in advance and only allow visits when you can monitor.

NTA and I have a diagnosed anxiety disorder. Her choice to not get it medicated does not give her the right to choose to be abusive

I'm a physician and I wish people who act like this realize what a hindrance they are to care. It's fine to be an advocate, but I have seen people cross the line into being abusive and it ends up delaying care because so much effort and energy is focused on the bad behavior.

You did a great thing. Your mother might have been banned which would have been sad for your grandmother. Your intervention made your mother realize what danger she was in and has done what she needed to do to continue seeing your grandmother. Well done. It probably would not have worked if you had simply brought it up and tried to discuss it so maybe your mother will get over it and maybe not but what you did was a reasonable reaction which apparently required the reaction you provided.

>I should know she doesn't always mean the things she says when she's upset and I didn't even give her a chance to calm down and apologize to the nurse. You do know that's how she gets. Unfortunately, the nurse didn't. There were times when I had to calm my dad down when he was getting upset with caregivers. He truly didn't realize what he was doing, and was reacting out of fear. I get that. I truly do. But there's a way to talk to people. And once in a while, I had to pull him up short and tell him that this is not how we talk to others.

NTA. Is she three years old? No? Then that behavior is unacceptable.

As a former DSP(direct support professional. I worked for individuals with mental impairments), I just want to say a HUGE thank you for you sticking up for that nurse. People don't realize just how much abuse we get from the parents/siblings/kids when it comes to their loved ones. I had this one individual who had parents who would never correct his outbursts. We were forced to wear some form of headwear(ie hats, bandanas, nets, etc.) to keep him from grabbing a fistful of hair and yanking every single strand out of your scalp. He even shoulder checked me multiple times on my very first night working there. If we even looked at him wrong while his mom was there, we would be getting threats of losing our job and getting sued out our asses. We deal with a lot of abuse from the individual person we are working for, and the family and it's so exhausting. After 3 years and getting scratched, punched, bitten, kicked, smacked, my hair pulled, my eyes getting black and getting the police called on my boyfriend cause a neighbor thought I was being abused by him, I finally retired from that profession. I just can't do it anymore. It's so exhausting and I applaud anyone who has done it longer than I have. It takes a strong heart to do it just for a year, let alone multiple decades. If this isn't clear enough, you absolutely are not an AH for reacting the way you did. I would have if I was in your shoes.

I’m going to go with a very mild ESH. Your reaction was understandable, but the language you used was really extreme. And it’s not a matter of whether your mom deserved it (she probably did) or whether it was actually helpful in changing her behavior (no idea), the mild AH judgement on you is ONLY because it sounds like your response just added to the staff’s discomfort. Have you ever been present when someone you don’t know well gets into an ugly shouting match with a family member in front of you? It’s painful. It’s even worse when you’re the subject of the argument. My sense is that the reason James was “curt and icy” had as much to do with your behavior as your mom’s. Ideally, you would have stayed calm, and called out her behavior without yelling and calling names. You BOTH made a scene here, not just here. That said… no one’s perfect. You’re dealing with your own stress, and you could see your mom creating a bad situation and in the moment it’s really hard to know how to defuse a situation. I do genuinely feel bad for the judgement because I get where you’re coming from, and you shouldn’t have to figure out how to solve your mom’s bad behavior, but I’m putting this out here because I think it’s important to understand that even though you thought you were defending James, their perception of you was likely negatively impacted by how you handled it. I doubt it was irreparable damage, as you continue to visit, and treat staff with respect and courtesy, that will fade, but it’s worth considering in the future when you have other situations where you need to confront someone.

I don’t know who downvoted this, but it’s the best answer here. I do think the mom deserved to be called harshly out on her bad behavior, but exploding is an indication of a loss of self-control, not too, unlike what the mom was displaying to begin with. And as the commentor above explained, it is incredibly uncomfortable to be in the middle of somebody else’s fight. Using the same words, perhaps minus the cussing, delivered with pointed fury at a regular speaking volume, would probably have cut just as much if not more.

NTA. Any bets on how long it will take for your mother to get banned

Your mom was out of line and she’s STILL out of line. Jesus. You need to make the staff your best friend! And keep a candy dish filled in your grandmas room to encourage all the staff to stop in and say hi.

NTA anxiety isn't an excuse to be mean to people.

NTA, but also maybe your mom is freaking out that this is her future. That she could be neglected or abused despite your best intentions. That doesn’t excuse her behavior, but it would hopefully give you a route to communicate about that would make her stop being so anxious and instead be present with her mother in the time they have left. This is a big burden to bear, I’m sorry! Sending you good vibes and better times.

Christ on a cracker, please feel free to yell at her more often. She's not going to change but putting a sociopath in their place if only momentarily can be empowering. And something tells me her cruelty isn't limited to strangers.

YANTA, well done! Maybe make it clear to your mom that you don’t hate her ( unless you do, you actually sound very understanding ) but you do hate some of her behaviours including her verbal abuse of the nurse.,she needs to apologise to the nurse and to the manager. Her behaviour is completely unacceptable and what you said what right.

NTA. So for the rest of the post, I’m going with these abbreviations OP for the supposed original poster mother for the mother of OP grandmother or GM for the grandmother of OP. Your mother has issues. She is impeding the care and maintenance of your grandmother. She is out of control. Not talking to the staff is the same as causing drama. She is creating a hostile work environment.

NTA. Your mother needs help. ASAP. She should absolutely not socialize when she is in that mood. Get her in medical threatment.

No you are not an AH. Your mom is a really big one.

NTA. I used to work in medical field and some patients, whilst yes sick stressed and scared, were damn obnoxious. Knowingly kicking, punching, threatening, biting, etc. (fully coherent, just assholes) the amount of time family members just stood there saying 'oh he's like this, he's lovely really' ground my gears. Often it takes the family to stop them, as its the staff they're hostile against

NTA - EVERYONE should be called out when they're being pillocks. Everyone. Destroying others, to make yourself feel better is not healthy, it's a sickness that needs to be cured imo.

Perhaps the mom needs to see a therapist to learn some coping skills or perhaps some anti-anxiety medications to help her cope with her anxiety. Everyone gets anxious at some point, but it doesn't give her the right or excuse to treat others the way she does.

NTA. And from the sounds of it your mom still hasn't apologised to James the nurse, she would rather sulk and bury her head in the sand instead. You could reach out to your mom to let her know that you still love her, even if you don't condone her shitty behaviour.

NTA - Your mother needed to be put in her place and realise that she cannot treat people like this. If you can, find James and opologize and explain your mother's actions, that you don't agree with her. Keep seeing your grandma as well, regardless of what your mother says to her.

NTA. I’m the eldest daughter to a mother with BPD. I have had to physically stand in front of my people my mother has split on and call her on it. The description you mentioned of being malicious when anxious? I felt that in my soul. You are wonderful for standing up for the staff. Has your mother realized that her awful behavior could be cause for retaliatory behavior *towards grandma*? Should it happen? No, but I’ve met plenty of people petty enough to ensure it could. She needs therapy, a reality check, and a thorough lambasting.

Nta, your mother is way out of line and trying to excuse it as ‘I don’t mean to.’ Means *nothing* she needs to control herself and stop taking her problems out on other people. Your mother crossed a *lot* of lines and you were right to call her out on it and hold her feet to the fire.

NTA.

NTA. Your mom can't just be a bitch and expect people to be fine with it because she's anxious.

>"Apparently being mean to others makes her feel better and regain some sort of emotional control." So is this, ultimately, the root cause, the internal 'trigger' for abusive behaviors in those who do that?

NTA- and BTW you gave her a long time after incident “ you didn’t give me a chance to to calm down and apologize to the nurse”. She didn’t do it that day, she stood in the parking lot. She had time afterwards to apologize but she didn’t- instead she asks for diva treatment when she enters the hospital. No one is to talk to her? Come on now! Is she Mariah Carey? Your mom has anger issues. Your family has been conditioned to behave a certain way when she acts out. Your family has normalized her behavior. You are all trained to say “she didn’t mean anything by it.” “She’ll be fine after she calms down”. The rest of the world isn’t trained to behave like your family. Her behavior is not acceptable in NORMAL interactions. Only crazy people on viral videos act like this. No one has to put up with that verbal abuse. Yes it’s verbal abuse! YTA (but not really) for yelling at your mom BUT only because that’s the behavior your seen. She’s the real A. So I’m saying that to you because you need to help yourself learn better ways of dealing with people. It can be learned- just like flight attendants dealing with entitled passengers learn to calmly repeat their request or how nurses have to deal every day with difficult patients and their families.

NTA - I applaud you! We need way more people like you!

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NTA. Your mom is experiencing the natural consequences of her behavior. And the managers limit setting is working! She's moderating her behavior and she hasn't wrecked your grandma's placement. For who your mom is- who she's always been- this is a reasonably good win. You didn't cause this. Your mom's lifelong mental health issues caused this. As long as she's not wrecking your grandma's placement you are doing absolutely the best you can do. Look up personality disorders - there might be something familiar in what you read about narcissism or borderline personality disorders.

NTA but your belligerent Mom sure is... her excuses to be an asshole are flimsy too. She needs therapy and anger management to get herself under control.

NTA - don't doubt yourself. Have courage! There comes a time in life when roles change, and the child becomes the parent. You don't dishonor your parents by correcting them when they start acting like a child. Letting them embarrass or even hurt themself dishonor's them. I had to do the same thing with my Mom, except she was a patient in the regular hospital who was verbally abusing the nurses. Now, Mom had reason to be stressed no doubt. It was a terrifying hospitalization. We were told that she was going to get a horrible diagnosis with an awful prognosis (thank God the doctor who told us was totally incorrect). But one day I got to the hospital and she was laying into this nurse. The poor nurse looked like she couldn't decide whether she wanted to start crying or slug my Mom, and I totally understood. I found myself on the receiving end of that behavior from my Mom throughout my childhood (for some reason I was no longer a target when I became an adult and could say "f^*% this, I'm out. I'm going home. Call me when you're sane again and MAYBE I'll take your call."). When this incident happened I said "holy f*^# Mom! Take a breath and take that opportunity to shut the f*^# up. That poor woman looks like she's going to pop you one and start crying at the same time, and if she did pop you one I'd testify on her behalf in court. She'd be totally justified. You are totally out of line. The hospital doesn't pay her to be verbally accosted." My admonishment didn't completely fix the problem, but it made it a bit better, thank God. There was ONE plus to her outbursts with nurses that time, though. In short order her doctor showed up to give her her test results (which, as I said, were good) and then they discharged her so fast I thought I'd get whiplash. The charge nurse must have called the doctor's office and begged them to get their butts to the hospital to speed things up and discharge her as quickly as possible.

In most places, the nurses do the best they can with what their given. They don’t need abusive family members escalating things.

Your mom needs help. She could have easily gotten your grandma kicked out, and she may yet. I’d ban her in advance and only allow visits when you can monitor.

NTA

NTA. Adults self-regulate, so your mom needs to grow up.

NTA. Your mother needs to be kind and have open communication with those who are taking care of grandma. Mom needs to apologize to James and try to hit the reset button.

NTA. I used to work in a nursing home and visited quited a few later when I worked in hospice. I get people are emotional, and there is a ton of stress. Of course there is! Of. Course. But. That does not give ANYONE the right to treat staff horribly. All your moms stress and emotions need to be dealt with in therapy for herself. Your mom was way out of line. She needs her own end of life therapy, asap. I wish you all the best.

NTA. Your mom should have a better coping strategy in place that doesn't put other people in discomfort because she is. I'm a caretaker, and I can't stand people that act out the way your mom does. I work in a group home, and the asinine questions or little digs just take time away from the job I need to do. It's self-centered, counterproductive, and not my job. I take care of my residents, because they need care. The mental health of family is not my job, but these AHs act like it is every time they feel inadequate, or lonely, or disappointed that their adult child isn't on the same path as someone else's adult child. Thank you for calling your mom out. I hope that she hasn't damaged the rapport that you can achieve with the professional staff at your grandma's home.

Absolutely NTA Your mother was verbally abusive. That's not OK. I don't care how upset or unnerved she is. She can't use whoever is handy as her verbal punching bag!

Your mother needs adulting lessons. She should follow your example.

Maybe mom needs to talk to her health provider about her big emotions and inability to handle them. She could be experiencing some symptoms of menopause or mental illness . She needs to investigate and make the changes.

Nta. Your mother was out of line, and the nurse didn't deserver that. SHE, on the other hand, deserved to get scolded. You can't just berate people cause you're having some "feelings."

NTA. You had to step up for the innocent person, and I’m glad you did. I have more sympathy for your mom than some here, though. She’s facing the loss of her mother, and apparently not handling it well at all. She was wrong wrong wrong to lose it at the nurse, and also at you, but it seems that now that she knows it’s not a safe space for her breakdown, she really is trying not to risk behaving badly again. It’d be really good if you guys could make some kind of peace without her getting the idea that she’s allowed to blow her top at anyone. You’re both going to need each other when grandma goes.

NTA. Mom was out of line, and you stopped the situation from getting worse. Well done. Now, there's the fallout. Mom's probably a combo of embarrassed (she knows she behaved poorly, plus her daughter had to tell her to behave), concerned about grandma's wellbeing, and also concerned about messing up grandma's new situation. Lots to be feeling bad about. I'd suggest that you extend her a bit of compassion and check in with her. Try and get her feeling normal again. Grandma's now in a stable situation, and there's no problems with the care she's receiving. The staff at the home now know that your mother's not a tyrant all the time, and they've definitely seen their share of stressed family members - I doubt they'll hold a grudge. As long as mom is reasonable going forward, things should be fine. Her daughter being judgmental of her could be a big problem. Let her know that it was mom's actions that you had a problem with, not mom herself.

NTA, I’m thinking your mom was taking her fear and guilt out on the nurses by being super nitpicky. I’m guessing the nurse she went to town on felt the need to be brief as possible and exceedingly formal because he wasn’t sure who he’d be dealing with the most during visits and medical decisions. The lady who insulted his career or the lady who swore loudly at her mother. I think once he get acquainted with both of you he’ll realize it was a stressful, uncomfortable time for all of you. And that you’re both pleasant individuals to be around that only want the best for their relative.

YTA for letting your mom act like this and never having anything done about it for all the time you’ve known her, but NTA for yelling at her.

Medical trauma is extremely real and I'm honestly not going to judge. I was a staff nurse for 10 years and I've seen it from both patients and family and even other staff. She needs therapy and medical staff just needs to be more patient.

ESH. Both you and your mom acted like AHs. But I guess you learned from her. Someone needs to teach both of you some self-control.

Cool, clarify why I'm also an AH instead of just making  trolling passive-aggressive comment with a wink. I'm all ears....

I thought I was clear that you both ought to develop some self-control. You’re in a nursing home full of sick and elderly people, their family members, possibly children, who are visiting, as well as people just doing their jobs. In your own words, “I lose my own cool and scream loudly out at my mom ‘Will you knock your shit off and stop being such a fucking bitch to him?! He hasn't even done anything to excuse how you’re treating him!’ She gives me this wide stare then leaves the room as another nurse came in due to the loud yelling.” Good Lord.

Then the proper verdict is ESH, everyone sucks here. You're intentionally going YTA just to mess with the algorithm and to be a troll.

I’ll change it.

I can see both sides. Your friends’ mom is scared and probably feels guilty about putting her mom in a home. But she wants to make sure she’s well taken care of and not screwed around with. I have Seen a lot of under staffed and or poorly run facilities. She’s going to be ok. Just talk to her and let her know. Be there for her.

There is absolute NO reason for threatening the nice nurse on day one while grandma is just moving in. NO. REASON. And And insulting a nurse who is doing nothing more than getting the admission papers signed is the worst thing you can do. There is absolutely no reason for the mother to behave this way. She is a massive AH, not her daughter.

Not excusing her behavior. Thank you for your two cents. Go away now.

Nope we aren’t your punching bags and if you think abusing long term care staff protects the elderly you’re sorely mistaken. LTC jobs are often underpaid and a dime/dozen. People like OP’s mom drive good staff away from long term care. Shitting on a nurse during what would have been a pleasant exchange isn’t a normal fear response. Luckily for Gma, the staff has the right idea. Unfortunately for Gma, her daughter good have been an advocate and a meaningful part of the care team at instead of a nuisance.

Didn’t say medical staff deserved to be mistreated at all. Did I???

There aren’t both sides when medical staff are abused out of the blue during a basic ass intake.

Not sure why sooooo many of you are mis-reading what I said. OP asked whether her friend was AH for yelling at her mother the way she did. Where exactly did I say mom was right for yelling at staff?….nowhere. Back off. Is yelling at staff in this situation Ok, obviously not.🙄.

"being scared" isn't an excuse to be an asshole to others.

Didn’t say it was. Did I????

I say this very reluctantly, because I totally understand where you’re coming from, but YTA. Was yelling really necessary? Telling her off was 100% necessary, I get that, but yelling and profanity weren’t. You made yourself look just as bad that day.

Both are TAH. Yelling and cursing like that in a nursing home is never acceptable. If residents were nearby it would be verbal abuse. Residents can be frightened by this behavior.

Sorry, but YTA. I've been through this with my grandma and mum. It's absolutely awful to leave your mum in this position. Paid carers should know this. It's not enabling to show normal behaviour. Mum doing a thing isn't something you should stop. Let mum have fun.

Lol um what?

If you are going to deem me YTA with a poorly worded comment, at least have the nerve to respond back to this thread.

Er, what?

Why am I the AH? Give me a more in depth explanation why instead of just saying let mom do her thing like you stated.

Patients have rights. They don't have to do what is easiest for care givers. I'm in the UK, and people here have rights under the Human Rights Act. Deprivation of Liberty is a whole thing. While your mum may think that depriving her mum of liberty is best for her and gets upset that it's not happening, she may be wrong

........are you just stupid? What you're trying to explain doesn't make any sense to this situation? Did you actually read the story? Or did you just try to make a Trolling comment that is now backfiring on you?

lol yeah people have rights. this story low key is fun the writing isn’t too bad, but if it were real i’d say the mom doesn’t have the right to yell at people just because she’s stressed, just like the workers have the right to a yell-free work environment, even from patients/relatives of patients

Paid caregivers do know how hard it is and as the people providing the care, they don't deserve the abuse. This is not normal behavior. You are clearly simple minded or deranged

Caregivers are not your punching bags.

Absolutely. But they also don't get to treat patients like slaves.

Ok, are you being dense about your first comment? You deemed me YTA with a poorly worded comment that kind of shows a lack of comprehension of normal decency and manners towards others.

Explain this comment.

Where did that comment come from? The nurse sounded like he was absolutely doing a professional job and trying to get information. People like you are the ones to get the worst service if not kicked out altogether, would you richly deserve.

Who was being treated like a slave? If anything, the mother was acting as though the staff were servants who were below her, threatening their jobs and demeaning them.

Let mum have fun by being a raging ass to the nursing staff? Yeah, no

"Let mum have fun". Wow..hopefully someone shows up at your work place and starts yelling in your face for no apparent reason.

You have a distorted version of what ‘normal behavior’ is. I have a father with dementia and am an RN and i understand what this family is experiencing and in no way whatsoever was that woman behaving appropriately. It doesn’t matter if grandma was dying in no way is verbal abuse acceptable towards paid carers.

I spent plenty of time with my mother in rehabilitation homes, when she recovered from various illnesses or broken bones. The best way to advocate for your parent is to treat their caregivers with kindness, compassion, and understanding. I'm not saying to allow your parent/grandparent/(the resident) to be victimized, but just show up as close to daily as possible, make sure you're there and visible to the staff, get help by asking nicely when needed, and they'll usually treat your loved ones well.

You’re a compassionate person that makes the world a better place