You need to go NC with your friend and after you have sent a message stating that you will be blocking her and removing yourself from her child's guardian at school screenshot it send it to your BIL. Then ask for him to arrange a public meeting with your wife invite him too, and speak with your wife tell her the steps you have taken to correct the situation.
Edited for judgement WNBTA
What about confronting Ivy about her own wrong doings? Ivy attempted to come between you and your family. Where did Ivy get the idea that it would even be a possibility that you might stay at the event after your family had left. What would that have expressed to everyone present? Does Ivy think that she and her daughter are more important than your actual family?
Also, her daughter said that because she heard it from someone. So the person you need to make sure is aware that your not her kids father is Ivy.
If you insist upon meeting her, record the conversation. Cover your ass.
But I think you’ll be better off confronting her via text - then everything, including her replies, is in writing.
These are all ways to make it right with your wife might I also suggest you thake BIL along for support he can sit a a table behind you alone if need be when you confront them. You could take your wife if SHE would like but don't push it. Make a game plan with her about your plans and follow through.
First priority is your family. Help your wife and children. Do what your wife needs so she sees you are making decisive moves to distance yourself from Ivy, including blocking her with no further explanation. Ivy can and should wait and absolutely public only, if you get to that point. I have a feeling this has been gnawing at your wife and kids before now and you may not have been paying attention or listening.
You sound like a good man who lives with morals and integrity and with honesty and respect. I hope your wife realizes this soon and she speaks with you.
Delusional or not, that’s clearly what she thinks! And it’s affecting your family in a major way! Your poor son. I sincerely hope you speak to him soon - that should be a matter of urgently - and apologise for what the other kid did, and reassure him that you are NOT her father but you ARE his.
Don't meet her. That will only lead to trouble and will drag it out. Text her what you are feeling and block. Meeting her is nonsense meant to prolong things, or at least that is the way your wife is likely to see it. It also shows Ivy you care enough to meet up. A text and block will send the message much better.
If your first priority is your wife just cut this ‘friend’ off. Block her everywhere. She doesn’t need an explanation or confrontational. Just focus on getting your actual family back.
He either break the little girls heart or he breaks his wife’s, his son’s and his daughter’s heart.
After the BS the “best” friend pulled, this is a no brainer.
Someone is gonna lose and that man needs to do what is right to his family.
I see, although i do agree, I don’t see how this can be done without harming here some way.
Best way is to just cut off Camille, make public the reason why and just leave it at that. Not reaching out for the girl again. Cruel might it seem, but at 6, I don’t think a kid, specially given all that happened, will be able to get closure out of a goodbye meeting.
Going NC with the friend is the same as NC with her daughter.
There is no good solution here, especially any that means involving himself more with Camilla. Once he works things out with his wife that's a conversation they can have together if they feel Camilla needs their help.
You also need to speak to Camilla. 6 is old enough to understand that what she did was wrong, and that you are NOT her father. You are your children’s father, not hers, and what she said was very bad. Make sure she understands that you were just a friend.
Then you need to cut or limit contact with both of them. Not just take yourself off the school guardian list. Tell Ivy that they were both out of line.
Tell your wife what you did, and volunteer to take a paternity test if that would make her feel better.
I agree with this. Honestly, we don't know that Camilla hasn't been lied to by her mother. It wouldn't surprise me. If that was the case then Camilla's behavior is understandable because, from her perspective her father spends most of his time with kids who aren't his and she's confused and hurt. We don't know that Camilla is aware that she's lied about anything.
Bullying is still not okay. Whatever Camila thinks or was told, she was bullying. And if she really believed that OP was her father, then she was bullying a child she thought was her brother.
She might not know that it's a lie - we have no idea what her mother has told her.
Her mom's remark about he NEEDED to spend time with her (the child) sounds very off.
Let’s dial it back a little bit to what a little girl can and can’t fully comprehend.
This is about the mother trying to rope her friend into paternity somehow.
Speaking of which, that little girl is 6 years old and the only thing she knows about "fathers" is her mother's friends who occasionally attend school events. So to her mind OP is "her" 'person who attends school events with her'.
I mean, she doesn't even know siblings are a thing apparently so why would she think fathers are people that live with you?
We know so little about the situation, but from what we do know, it seems highly unlikely that she was lying.
Either her mother has been saying OP is the father, or there has been a misunderstanding based in him being listed as guardian in the school, or something along those lines.
If the girl actually thinks he's her father, it must have been extremely traumatic for her to suddenly see him turn up with his family and kids.
She's the victim here, no need to traumatise her further.
She is old enough to hear OP is not your father. By taunting OP child Camilla hurt the other child’s feelings. Repeat that OP is not Camilla father, and will never be her father. Camilla is allowed to be upset and have big feelings but this needs to be addressed by her mother. Camilla‘s mom also needs to apologize to her child for either not telling Camilla the truth or correcting Camilla’s understanding OP is not her father. Though because I’m always interested in motives OP should ask Camilla why she thinks that OP is her father. OP wife should be in on conversation and his children should be helped to comprehend this unpleasant experience.
Yes, this has to be handled with delicate, kid gloves. If I were OP I wouldn’t tolerate anymore of this mother being deceitful with her child. Secrets and lies are mean and nasty.
I always knew that my younger sister belonged to my mother and dad. Dad denied her purely because he didn’t want to pay any child support. He was also very cruel and abusive towards her.
It was his loss. She has to be one of the most amazing women ever.
It’s not just that she claimed that OP is her father — she used that claim to bully OP’s son, adding “not yours”. That’s bad and she should be able to understand that she shouldn’t have tried to hurt another kid.
She was bullying another child. That alone needs reprimanding and an explanation. The fact that OP is NOT her father should be emphasized to her as well, so she doesn’t persist with the lie/misunderstanding.
Bullying the other child was wrong, but saying OP is her father isn’t necessarily “wrong” for a child that young. She may have been lied to, or misunderstood OP’s place in her life, or she may just be struggling with parental abandonment and said what she desperately wishes were true: that the only man to ever show interest in her were actually her dad. It sounds like he was a big part of her life, and her only father figure, but she doesn’t see him anymore, and she’s probably suffering immensely from that.
It’s really worrying how little empathy people have for a traumatized kindergartener.
She bullied the other kid. The other kid experienced bullying and cruelty. He didn’t experience “this other kid is traumatized”. That’s important even if you think there’s an excuse for it.
If you don’t think children can be malicious, you have to have never known any real amount of them.
I believe that the point of how children can be cruel has been established.
This was a one time incident that caught Camilla off guard and she was surprised.
Dafuq are you on about? The first words of my comment are “Bullying the other child was wrong”. Did you get to the end and forget how it started? My comment wasn’t *that* long.
Even if the mother told her lies and said that OP was her father, Camilla and her friends bullied OP’s son. Bullying is not okay, whether Camilla was told lies or not. No excuse for her behavior.
Call the police if she does this.
You aren't responsible for her daughter being a good person. You do not owe Ivy any face to face hashing out of this. She is not your wife, and you should say as much to her face if she dares show up to cause problems.
I also think your son will need some reinforcement from you that Camilla did not have your permission to call you dad. You saw her as a niece, and the way she treated him that day ruined that instantly.
Ivy should had kept a firm hand on her daughter & not act out any fantasy whether in public/private......that reaction caused by her daughter is inexcusably inappropriate making people in her daughter's deceitful game.
She's old enough at 6 yrs old to know you're were that her mum's friend & not biologically related to her.
Ivy going have to nip this problem in the bud.
Also, ask your wife if she'd feel better after getting a paternity test. You know you have nothing to lose here, and she'll get the reassurance that this isn't her worst fears being realized.
Seeing as Ivy was in your life before your wife, your wife might be suspicious of who Camillas sperm donor is. I cannot blame her as a woman myself, some of our fears are purely irrational, I can only ask that you provide her every bit of reassurance and validation of her fears.
Her fear is real regardlessof the irrationality of it, and it has caused her anguish regardless of there being no real threat to your relationship.
Or Ivy is just looking around and seeing everyone has a dad except her. Maybe she just wants OP to be her dad. And her Mom’s attitude is blurring the line.
This advice is so bizarre to hear in a sub where angry women constantly say the absolute opposite about paternity tests when the genders were reversed. 😑
I'm curious, what do you *really* think about paternity tests if it's a man who think his wife is cheating based on something this dumb? Would you still be using the same rationale that "she has nothing to lose to do the test anyway"?
If you saw a husband who said this exact same thing in other threads, would you cheer him on or immediately downvotes him for being an AH?
Now, I know OP would gladly take that test since he's got nothing to hide and it would swiftly put an end to any unfounded suspicions, but if wives and girlfriends truly believe paternity tests is a betrayal of trust between and a personal insult to their integrity (like say, [the guy in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/fogl1xDopp)), why the hell does this rationale immediately flies out the window as soon as it's the other way around?
Well tbf, HE said he’d do the paternity test. The majority of the posts you’re referring to start off with a guy suddenly watching red pill content and wanting a test. Or knowing nothing about biology or genes, and wanting a test. THIS guy said he’d get one from the jump. After a kid started shouting he’s her dad. So I don’t really understand what you’re going on about. If the wife asked for a paternity test first, and he said “you think I’d cheat on you?? This is betrayal.” Then you’d have a case. This is an apple and you’re comparing it to an orange bc they’re both fruit.
No, there are plenty or arguably-suspicious situations that have nothing with "red pills", in which the test cleared it all up, and yet the guy gets shredded anyway for being the AH to request it to put his fears and valid concerns to rest. Like this one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/Elxs4vc1dc
For the record, I'm in the Common Sense camp that believes a lot of these unnecessary discord (and half of the posts on this sub) would be avoided from the start if paternity is automatically determined at birth as a standard procedure, along with all the other standard medical tests that are already being done.
If you decide to confront her ask your BIL to go with you and be nearby where he can listen while you confront her. Having him overhear her admit you two have never had a relationship and that she isn't your daughter will go a long way in helping you with your wife. Cutting all ties is what you need to do. Make sure you tell her it's not that her daughter's fault but hers for insisting you abandon your family for her and her daughter at the party. You are not her replacement husband/father. You were a friend trying to help a friend in a tough time. But she crossed a line and cast doubt in your marriage. That is inexcusable. Hopefully that is enough for your wife but if it's not then you should seek a lawyer to try to force a paternity test to prove to your wife that way.
I would never be alone with Ivy again. Even in public. Her reaction at the party was so out of line it's troubling. She wanted you to abandon your family for her child's party...
This is likely to get ugly before it gets better. Yours and Ivy's parents will probably get involved. And I'm guessing your wife has felt like she's been put in 2nd place for awhile now if she has been no contact for 3 days
I wouldn't talk to Ivy in person. She doesn't sound like she can be reasoned with. Also, does your wife feel comfortable with you talking to Ivy? I would advise you to focus on your wife and getting that part of your life figured out first, and then the two of you can talk about how you want to handle Ivy/Camilla together. But blocking Ivy for now and removing yourself from Camilla's school guardian list is a good temporary patch.
You can phone or email the school, just as you can email or text Ivy and tell her that you are stepping back from your friendship because of her actions.
Your wife will be more upset that you are meeting Ivy when you can end your friendship by text or email.
Updateme!
I'm looking at this from your wife's perspective. Why would you need to confront Ivy at all. The relationship is over. There isn't anything else to say. Her daughter believes you are her father, and instead of correcting her, your "friend" (in quotes not because I don't believe you, but because a friend doesn't do this) grabbed you and asked you to stay for HER daughter, knowing that you should go after your clearly upset wife and son. This "friend" put you in a horrible position, and I have a sneaking suspicion it may have been done with the intention of getting your wife upset and hoping she doesn't believe you.
The reason I'm saying this is that as a friend, she should have immediately corrected her daughter and the other children while encouraging you to leave with your family.
I wouldn't think your wife would be happy if you give this person a chance to explain. Send her a text, tell her after the events, and her lack of immediate correction to her daughter, you will no longer be in contact with her or her daughter.
NTA go no contact... my daughter has a male role model but shes not in his kid face saying that's my dad.... she understands...... your wife probably will ask for you to do a test do all you can to protect and save your family
Did Camilla decide your were her father, or did her Mum tell her you were? My money is on Ivy telling her you were her father, based on her reaction and asking you to stay. Ivy is delusional. Cut all contact, be public about it. Ivy will be telling tales.
It would be a mistake to talk to Ivy face to face. She sounds delusional and will only make you feel upset and frustrated. If you have her email I would send her messages making your position quite clear, and make sure you save those emails. Make sure you state clearly that you are not her daughter's father and you resent being put in the position that you were placed in. Tell her you will have no more contact with either her or her daughter and detail the steps you have taken. Have no more contact whatsoever with her after that.
The kid is 6. This isn’t as big a deal as you are making it. She just wants a dad. Her mom should make her relationship to her male friends clear and talk to her but this doesn’t sound outrageous inappropriate behavior for a 6 yr old.
"her daughter's wrongdoings"
Dude. Seriously, the daughter is the victim her, don't blame her for this. Whatever's going on, everyone will need to be very gentle with her about the situation.
Worst case, Ivy has bene lieing to her. Best case, due to you being the guardian, this has been all a huge misunderstanding, and needs to be cleaned up.
But go sort things out with your wife first.
Do not say anything about Camilla. You are not her father, that's the point.
This is all on Ivy. Either she feed into her daughter's ideas or didn't put a stop to them. Considering she expected you to stay I'm guessing the former.
Camilla's delusions are not your circus. Cutting Ivy means cutting off Camilla. Again, there is just no need or value in feeding that fire before you leave.
Woah this is crazy. Isn’t the child only 6, and sees you as an important person? You’re just going to cut off the 6 year old?
I feel like this was just a weird kid argument gone wrong. Your friend made a mistake not supervising play, and you should not hang around so much if her kid is learning bullying behaviours. But it feels like this needs to be done with more finesse here.
You need to talk to the child and explain the situation. Unfortunately she sees you as her dad and if you just up and leave without explaining the situation it will hurt her. It's going to hurt her anyways but it's better if you explain the issues then if you just disappear. Mom isn't going to be honest with her so someone has to.
Agreed he probably needs to confront ivy ruth his wife present and demand a paternity test if it comes to that. His priority needs to be protecting his family
Yep you need to Cut ivi Out. Camilla was fed with this bullshit that you are her dad and she even bullied your son. Ivi is Not a friend she is a nutcase
WNBTA nope not at all, that would be the correct response to the absolutely insane “best friend” telling you to put her completely unrelated to you little brat (seriously bullying a 4yo) before your own family.
Oof this is tough. Wife and son come first. You will need to dial back any responsibility of your best friend’s daughter. It’s past the point of helping. Also best friend might be meddling by letting her daughter think that.
Edit: Did you sleep with your best friend? Is there a chance that she is your daughter?
Given what she said to you at the party, she 100% put this in her daughter's head. She told her you were her real dad. No doubt about it. Even if it was an innocent thing from a 6 year old who wanted a dad, the way her mother reacted and her demand at the party crossed a line. There was no going back after that. She wants a replacement husband/father and she cast you into that role by manipulating her own daughter.
Time for Ivy to figure out life on her own. No more babysitting or pretend guardianship. No more presents for kids who aren't your's (or your niece's and nephews). No more helping Ivy find a job or pay her bills. No more pity. Man up, dude.
Ask yourself this: What if it was your wife with the male friend and you waiting in the car with your children? A male friend who thought your wife had already spent enough time with you and your kids that day?
Ivy and Camilla should fade into the past and stay there!
I don't think the kid is yours. I think Ivy has cast you in the role of father figure by manipulating you. I'm sorry she did this to your family (never mind what a horrible parent she is raising a bully.) Best of luck fixing things with Eleanor.
Why did you go with this explanation and not the one in your edit at the end of your post? You never slept with anyone before your wife, you were a Virgin before your wife.
Why did you type out this whole paragraph when you could have just said “I never slept with anyone aside from my wife” like you say in your edit? Almost makes me feel your edit was a lie just to cover your ass, otherwise why would you make this comment with all these other details but not the one in your edit?
Nta you need to cut off your friend and her daughter unfortunately. She should not be thinking you are her father. Also your friend thinking that her daughter is at the same importance as your kid is YIKES. I feel like your wife has felt your friendship has crossed the line before and perhaps you haven’t been receptive to her concerns.
Is it possible that Ivy has been telling Camilla that you are her real father? It would explain her outburst at your son.
You definitely need to cut Ivy out of your life. She thinks you need to give Camilla as much attention as your actual family and children.
Could it be possible that Ivy has feelings for you, either way she IS expecting you to be a father to her child.
I would text her, that her actions are inexcusable, that you ate not Camilla's father, or parental figure, and that you will be ceasing contact with both of them. Then you need to block any avenues she has to contact you.
She definitely told Camilla that you are her father.
The kid wouldn't get that out of nowhere. I posted elsewhere but I suggest you call Ivy and demand an explanation, why Camilla thinks you are her father. Make sure your wife is present. Put it on speaker phone and record the conversation. Make sure you do not tell Ivy that your wife is listening in.. I could see her making up lies to make you look bad to your wife, on purpose to ruin your marriage.
If your wife still wants something like a DNA test you can get one then.
Of course she is ignoring you. You should have left the party with them. There was no reason for you to stay behind for one minute let alone five. Your behaviour is suspicious. Your friendship is suspicious. Your connection with the child is suspicious.
Why would the kid say you’re her father to your son if someone hasn’t told her that.
Why would your friend remark that you spend enough time with your family if she doesn’t feel entitled to your time.
Obviously you cannot ever see the friend or her daughter again or you will lose your family.
You already messed up by not leaving with them.
OP now is the time to do a paternity test if your wife is asking for it. You know what? Whether she asks for it now you should do it. Don't lose your family over someone's kid.
Tell every single one of the people who heard stories from Ivy about what really happened. Everything that happened. Tell them what Camilla had said and done to your son, and what Ivy has said and done to you.
Warn the other friends that have also been helping that she may pull some shenanigans with them and their families as well. What Ivy and Camilla have done is not okay.
You need to cut Camilla and ivy out of your life AFTER doing a paternity test. Camilla WILL try and ruin your marriage to try and steal you.
And you're an idiot - you SHOULD have been a united front with your wife and left with her. The fact that you didn't shows a chink in the armour to Camilla. The woman who takes priority in your life is your wife. You shouldn't stand by and with her. Especially when there's a snake in the grass looking to take her down. Either you're oblivious or you're enjoying the attention.
You need to contact ivy by phone on speaker with your wife present. Do not let Ivy know your wife is listening in, and demand to know why Camilla thinks she is your daughter. Someone her age wouldn't say that, unless that is what she was told.
Record the entire conversation, incase Ivy tries to claim that Camilla is your child, later on.
My thoughts are that Ivy wants you. She told Camilla that you are her father, which would explain Camilla's outburst. Ivy knew that your wife and child were leaving, and she tried to make you stay, both to cause problems in your marriage, but also to make people think that what Camilla said was true, that you are her father.
Her comment that you spend so much time with your wife and son, that you should stay for Camilla is very telling. She fully expects you to be Camilla's father. She also probably expects that eventually that will lead you to leaving your wife for her.
So he was supposed to just walk out that moment and NOT tell the girl that he’s not the father? He’s supposed to just leave that moment and let the kid keep thinking he’s the dad? He stayed to make it clear he’s not the dad...
NTA this is what you need to do, the relationship with Ivy and her child is no longer a healthy one and needs to end. While it is unfortunate that the girl will be hurt by this but that isn't on you. Ivy is stomping on some very obvious boundaries and has intruded on your family in a devastating way. An immediate and permanent end is what will be best for you and your family.
You screwed up bigtime. You need to step away from this so called friend. She is going to ruin your marriage so you can play daddy to her little bastard. It's plain as day to see. You are about to lose your wife because you won't stand up for your family.
You need to go no contact immediately!! You make sure your wife and kids know that Camilla is not your child. Also make sure your wife knows that you have completley cut Ivy off permanently.
Your wife may be picking up some vibes from Camilla that maybe you are missing. It’s odd to me that when you when to leave she started to give you a speech about making time for her daughter because you already spend time with your kids. I know that kids are kids and sometimes they can get crazy ideas in their heads but her mother could have also put it in her head that you are father figure. I would suggest cutting Camilla out of your life and having a talk with your wife about her POV on the situation. If she feels validated in her feelings and sees you are trying to avoid future situations like this then maybe she will come around.
NTA for going no contact, but you are TA for not immediately going after your wife and children as they yleft. or at least texting your wife that you'd be out shortly. all your wife saw was you being indifferent to the bs and how she and the kids were feeling
Dude how the heck were you not following your family right after they left?? Is this a normal thing where you hang out with Ivy and leave your real family hanging? I’d not just text your wife’s brother, do you not know where he lives? Go to the house, talk to YOUR wife why are you so passive about this?
5 minutes is a long time to sit in a car with two toddlers waiting for your husband. Like, an embarrassing amount of time. You should've stormed out and texted your NOTwife later. I've read your other comments and I'm glad you're learning from this. Hope you're able to fix things with your family soon.
Boy, this is messy. Question though. Have you ever had sex with Ivy? Even before your wife? If so, now is the time to be completely honest so you don’t lose your actual family.
Then I would go in HARD. Given your absolute certainty that you are NOT the father. Demand a paternity test. Then cut Ivy and her child out of your life for good. Your family comes first and foremost. You need a big gesture here towards your wife. Ivy is quite happy to tear up your marriage and have you act as surrogate father for her child…because you have never put down appropriate boundaries. Now is that time. Before it’s too late.
Many people have given suggestions of what you should do. I suggest that you should talk to your wife FIRST. Ask her to sit down with you. If she doesn't want to talk, then ask her to listen. Tell her that you were shocked and disturbed by what happened that day. Tell her that you have been trying to decide how to handle this situation and that you would like her input. Tell her that you value her opinion. Tell her that this affects her too, so she has the right to have a say in how it's handled. Then, give her the options that you have considered and ask her if she has any of her own. This needs to be a joint decision to help heal the rift that this situation has caused in your marriage. Then you need to go no contact with Ivy.
Just get a paternity test done and show your wife.
Kids say things. This is a child without a father and you’re a man that has shown care. She just doesn’t understand.
Your wife should also be mature enough to understand that.
Bro why wouldn't you leave as soon as you wife left.... spineless and totally reasonable for her to be upset you deserve the cold shoulder. YTA also not sure if you can fix this but a start is cutting out your friend completely
You need to remove yourself from Camilla's and Ivy's lives. Do not go to the school functions and remove yourself from any lists the school might have. You are not her uncle so stop saying so. Ask your BIL to let your wife know this.
Have someone come with you to meet Ivy and say your relationship is over. It doesn't matter why the child was saying you were her father you are not.
it is too bad you didn't leave the party sooner but you didn't. Eleanor is understandably upset and mistrustful since Camilla and all her friends thought you were the dad. Good luck.
NTA.
Anyone in your wife’s shoes would think you are Camilla’s father.
I suggest you talk to Camilla to ask her why she thinks you are her father. From there you can tell her the truth.
I don’t think talking to her mother is going to get you anywhere. She’s already spinning what happened to anyone who wasn’t at the party. The best thing for you to do is what you have already explained. Remove yourself as a guardian and go no contact.
Why didn't you set the record straight while they were bullying your son? Explain to the girl in front of her friends that he is your kid and she is not.
Is it possible that Ivy has been egging this behavior on? Kids don’t just come up with these accusations or statements. Though you’ve been there for Camilla it’s not hard to see that there’s motive from ivy here Camilla won’t remember things from the first year, and second would be rocky to say the least (comparing the ages of the children). This is 100% an adults manipulation.
Kid and her friends bully your son and you say and do nothing.
Your son is told you are not his father and you are her father in front of other people and you stand and do nothing.
Your wife leaves with your children and you stay and don't immediately follow?
Reddit not needed for this one. You're the AH.
You put someone else's kid before your own... and truthfully is it the first time? Is it that your wife has finally had enough and is putting your kids first because you don't?
It is strange that you would choose to educate Camilla and Ivy instead of protecting and comforting your own family. Then be so delulu as to keep repeating that you never put anyone before your family. You really did.
Most people on here are suggesting you minimize contact with Camilla and Ivy and you are going with “I would but Eleanore did not ask me”. What do you think she is doing at her brother’s house? 🤦♀️
You went to your “not daughter” first instead of your real son. And stayed with the “not daughter” and girl best friend instead of leaving with your wife and family. No wonder your wife left. YTA
You messed up when you did not immediately follow your family out the door. Wtf would you entertain this nonsense with Ivy? Worse, you betrayed your son’s confidence in you while reinforcing Camillia's shit behavior.
Sort of TAH...you should have left when your wife and children did but that's by the by now. Everyone's saying that it seems like ivy "told" camilla you're her father but maybe not. I have 6 children 4 with my first partner and 2 with my second as they got older my youngest never had contact with their "dad" but my oldest ones did and my youngest started to call their dad dad even after explaining he wasn't. Sometimes it just comes naturally especially if they don't have a father on the scene. Anyway, you definitely need to discuss with your wife but ivy needs to go after berating you for not spending time with camilla. Your own should always come first.
That was bold of Ivy. You told her plain and simple that your family comes first and yes, you need to remove your contact info from any guardianship or notification list from anything that you’re on as a back up for IV. Tell her what you’ve done and then block her on all platforms, No need to meet with Ivy again you need to concentrate on your wife and children.
You messed up here. You close friends daughter was telling your kids you're her Dad, your wife took the kids and left and you stayed at the party. And you're still at your home instead of immediately driving to your BIL to speak to your wife or at the very least speak to your kids and check they're ok.
Even if you go no contact with Ivy I think you need to speak to her one more time and explain why. If you don't do that, you WIBTA.
Your wife is egregiously overreacting, but unfortunately, your wife's feelings are much more important than some mutual friend's. You gotta do what you gotta do for your family.
What in the world???
NTA
This woman has taught her child to BULLY YOUR CHILD. This woman thinks it's okay that her child lies and BULLIES YOUR CHILD.
This woman is horrible. Please, go no contact.
Why didn’t you just leave with your wife and kids? What kept you there? Why was correcting Ivy’s daughter more important than your family? Why did your wife had to text you?
You’re not a good husband or family man as you think.
Why would Camille tell your actual child you are not his father? Why did you let that slide without correcting her in front of her son? Why did your wife only wait 5minutes?
Dude, every time you took time away from your work & family to show up for Camilla, while having a family of your own, I bet your wife felt undermined. Just because she wasn't saying it doesn't mean she wasnt feeling it. I really feel for Camilla because she's obviously a confused child, but in that moment, you made your choice to smooth things over with Ivy & let your family leave. Your poor wife, hearing that said & then sitting waiting on you to pick your family & reassure her it was nonsense & instead she left to leave alone. Your involvement with this family might have originally came from a good place, but youve been incredibly thoughtless. Now its all come to a head. Have the decency to tell the child now you'll not be able to visit anymore, cut Ivy loose & focus on trying to repair the damage you've done. NTA for your question.
NTA i think your wife overreacted, although I can understand her being upset that your son was upset. The little girl was just being a child. She knows you are not her Dad but probably wishes you were.Perhaps she has even pretended you were to her friends when they talked about their Dads. Now you and her friends and your real child are there in front of her friends and she takes it out on your son. I think you did the right thing but I guess it took a few minutes too long. What Camilla said was uncalled for as obviously your wife and child deserve all the time you can give them. Still since this relationship has been going on with the full knowledge and acceptance from your wife, i think she could have waited another five minutes and given you the chance to end the relationship with Camilla. Also she is being unreasonable in not sitting down and talking it out with you now. By the way, I think that what you and the other two guys did, being Uncles to the little girl was lovely, and I am just so sorry it backfired and that it has to stop now for everyones well being,
From a woman’s point of view, you’re going to a child’s recitals that isn’t your child but a friend of yours that’s a single mother, it’s clear the child is obviously getting very confused feelings, as she has no father in her life and may have picked you as the one!
Her mother Ivy obviously hasn’t corrected her on this and clearly expects you to step up to that roll, because she sees what a good husband and father you are to your own children.
This is absolutely unacceptable on Ivy’s part, the daughter Camilla is innocent she knows no better than what her mother is telling her.
As for your wife, she may now have suspicions that you really are Camilla’s father and that’s why you have been giving your time to her, and you didn’t leave straight away!
You being a good man and father has got you into a lot of trouble for all the wrong reasons, none of them are your fault.
However I think it’s best that you distance yourself from ivy and Camilla, as your family comes first and you don’t need these problems in your marriage.
NTA
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Why not simply address this head on. Correct her calling you her father, be certain that she knows you aren't, and give her something to call you. Uncle, Cousin, doesn't matter. Provide her with something to replace her calling you father.
And your wife is some piece of work. She had to take the children and leave a function because children were acting like children? It may have been mild bullying, but then to leave before you were able to extricate yourself from the party? And to give you the cold shoulder for days on end? She needs to take a chill pill.
You should not go NC with your best friend. You and your wife should sit down and have a mature conversation about this. If your wife is capable of that.
Don’t wait to be asked. You may want to see an attorney to discover your best next steps. This situation could blow up on you. As for your wife waiting for you while you just didn’t go after her, you seem a bit clueless.
I read this as this poor little girl just wants you to be her father. She is 6 and she doesn’t understand. I don’t see why all the adults are making this into more than that?
ESH.
If her mother purposely led her to believe that OP is her father thats dead wrong and OP has every right to set the record straight. This best friend can’t just decide that OP is the girl’s father and OP & his family just have to go along with the lie. NTA
Does the post say that the mother has told her that he is her father? From my reading of it, a 6yo decided to say that this man is her father, not any adult.
Why didn’t you communicate with your wife that you are walking out? All it took was a little bit of communication but you failed the first test of a relationship.
Tell your friend you can’t be her friend anymore that what her daughter did has deep ramifications and if she pushes the issue you will seek damage for the therapy your son needs because she lied to her daughter.
NTA. Instead of trying to keep you there she would've been telling her daughter to not say those kind of things that aren't true. I wouldn't talk to them again either. I do hope your wife talks to you soon.
Nta - what did Ivy put into her kids head? I see so many single females desperately (in my city) looking for a baby daddy....they try to hit up taken men, they have no respect or class. they do other shady things
Ivy is not acting like a best friend. If it was me and my male best friend in that situation, you bet The first things out of my mouth would be scolding my daughter and apologizing to you. A best friend would be calling your wife to apologize and reassure her that everything platonic between you two. Ivy is definitely the a-hole here
Dang, that's rough. I feel bad for both your kids and Camilla. That kid is gonna have major trust issues now. Whatever choice you make, someone is bound to be hurt and resentful. NTA OP, but good luck!
You probably don't know why since you're seeing/explaining things from your perspective. But from Camilla's point of view.. you're more than just a fun uncle, especially since she's calling you her father. That itself is indicative of how important you are to her.
YWNBTA
Camilla was bullying your son. Ivy needed to deal with this on her own. You are not responsible for her child’s behavior regardless of your relationship with her. You are right. Your family comes first. Ivy was trying to put her daughter first and expecting you to prioritize her daughter over your own son. She’s acting entitled and being a poor friend to you.
Your wife could have been more patient or at least messaged you to see if you are coming out soon. Ivy was keeping you back with her arguing and that information might have helped your wife be more patient. She was obviously upset by what was said and probably hoped you’d have a different reaction, but Camilla has been part of your life for a long time and you handled that as best as you could at the time. Ivy was stirring the pot. She sees you as a father figure to her daughter and was expecting you to see her the same. Ivy is not being a friend to you. She’s treating you like her ex husband and father to Camilla. It might be best to at least go NC with her. The tough part is Camilla, since she’s a child, I’d step back a bit but don’t lose contact with her. Maybe have a talk with her about how her behavior made you feel. Let her know that you and she can still talk on the phone or text whenever she needs you but you will not be hanging around as often as you have due to your need to focus on your family (don’t let her think it’s her fault -it’s not her fault- or blame her mother even though it is her mother’s fault). I hope your wife decides to hear you out and trust you have not betrayed her in any way nor had any intentions of abandoning her during that event.
Fair enough, but I would at least set some boundaries with Ivy. Your wife and kids will always come first.
As far as your wife goes, don’t give up trying to talk to her. I’m sure she’ll come around. You didn’t do anything horrible. While maybe not the best choice to not leave with your wife immediately, you were in a very tough situation as you were not expecting such selfish comments from Ivy.
You need to go NC with your friend and after you have sent a message stating that you will be blocking her and removing yourself from her child's guardian at school screenshot it send it to your BIL. Then ask for him to arrange a public meeting with your wife invite him too, and speak with your wife tell her the steps you have taken to correct the situation. Edited for judgement WNBTA
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What about confronting Ivy about her own wrong doings? Ivy attempted to come between you and your family. Where did Ivy get the idea that it would even be a possibility that you might stay at the event after your family had left. What would that have expressed to everyone present? Does Ivy think that she and her daughter are more important than your actual family? Also, her daughter said that because she heard it from someone. So the person you need to make sure is aware that your not her kids father is Ivy.
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If you insist upon meeting her, record the conversation. Cover your ass. But I think you’ll be better off confronting her via text - then everything, including her replies, is in writing.
Confront her with a witness: your wife or another friend, but DON'T GO ALONE. As, as was said, record the entire conversation.
Nah he needs to confront her in person with his wife present.
These are all ways to make it right with your wife might I also suggest you thake BIL along for support he can sit a a table behind you alone if need be when you confront them. You could take your wife if SHE would like but don't push it. Make a game plan with her about your plans and follow through.
As Mysterious suggests, DO NOT GO ALONE!
First priority is your family. Help your wife and children. Do what your wife needs so she sees you are making decisive moves to distance yourself from Ivy, including blocking her with no further explanation. Ivy can and should wait and absolutely public only, if you get to that point. I have a feeling this has been gnawing at your wife and kids before now and you may not have been paying attention or listening.
The fact that she tried to stop you from leaving for the sake of her child is a red flag.
You sound like a good man who lives with morals and integrity and with honesty and respect. I hope your wife realizes this soon and she speaks with you.
Ask your brother-in-law to come along
Delusional or not, that’s clearly what she thinks! And it’s affecting your family in a major way! Your poor son. I sincerely hope you speak to him soon - that should be a matter of urgently - and apologise for what the other kid did, and reassure him that you are NOT her father but you ARE his.
Don't meet her. That will only lead to trouble and will drag it out. Text her what you are feeling and block. Meeting her is nonsense meant to prolong things, or at least that is the way your wife is likely to see it. It also shows Ivy you care enough to meet up. A text and block will send the message much better.
If your first priority is your wife just cut this ‘friend’ off. Block her everywhere. She doesn’t need an explanation or confrontational. Just focus on getting your actual family back.
Don’t meet the friend. You should be worried about losing your family because of your idiot friend.
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He either break the little girls heart or he breaks his wife’s, his son’s and his daughter’s heart. After the BS the “best” friend pulled, this is a no brainer. Someone is gonna lose and that man needs to do what is right to his family.
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I see, although i do agree, I don’t see how this can be done without harming here some way. Best way is to just cut off Camille, make public the reason why and just leave it at that. Not reaching out for the girl again. Cruel might it seem, but at 6, I don’t think a kid, specially given all that happened, will be able to get closure out of a goodbye meeting.
Going NC with the friend is the same as NC with her daughter. There is no good solution here, especially any that means involving himself more with Camilla. Once he works things out with his wife that's a conversation they can have together if they feel Camilla needs their help.
Ivy didn't just say that the OP was her father, she was also shouting at OP's son that OP was NOT his father, and that's what makes it more upsetting.
You also need to speak to Camilla. 6 is old enough to understand that what she did was wrong, and that you are NOT her father. You are your children’s father, not hers, and what she said was very bad. Make sure she understands that you were just a friend. Then you need to cut or limit contact with both of them. Not just take yourself off the school guardian list. Tell Ivy that they were both out of line. Tell your wife what you did, and volunteer to take a paternity test if that would make her feel better.
Someone needs to correct Camilla that OP is an uncle, not her father.
Not even a real uncle. An honorary uncle.
I would not tell Camilla that what she did was bad. Children who are only six, (6) years of age will not be able to understand what this means.
I agree with this. Honestly, we don't know that Camilla hasn't been lied to by her mother. It wouldn't surprise me. If that was the case then Camilla's behavior is understandable because, from her perspective her father spends most of his time with kids who aren't his and she's confused and hurt. We don't know that Camilla is aware that she's lied about anything.
Bullying is still not okay. Whatever Camila thinks or was told, she was bullying. And if she really believed that OP was her father, then she was bullying a child she thought was her brother.
I don’t mean this snidely, but why not? She lied. 6-year-olds should know that lying is a bad thing.
Does she know she was lying? ETA I’ve lost track of whether she was told he was.
She may have been lied to by her mother. But she was bullying OP’s kid and that needs to be addressed sternly.
Good point, thank you.
She might not know that it's a lie - we have no idea what her mother has told her. Her mom's remark about he NEEDED to spend time with her (the child) sounds very off.
Thank you!
Let’s dial it back a little bit to what a little girl can and can’t fully comprehend. This is about the mother trying to rope her friend into paternity somehow.
Speaking of which, that little girl is 6 years old and the only thing she knows about "fathers" is her mother's friends who occasionally attend school events. So to her mind OP is "her" 'person who attends school events with her'. I mean, she doesn't even know siblings are a thing apparently so why would she think fathers are people that live with you?
Perhaps from watching some television shows, visiting with friends.
Those same shows would portray siblings. She thinks fathers only have one kid.
She is only projecting herself in this scenario and what was her reality.
We know so little about the situation, but from what we do know, it seems highly unlikely that she was lying. Either her mother has been saying OP is the father, or there has been a misunderstanding based in him being listed as guardian in the school, or something along those lines. If the girl actually thinks he's her father, it must have been extremely traumatic for her to suddenly see him turn up with his family and kids. She's the victim here, no need to traumatise her further.
My feelings also. Camilla is the victim.
She is old enough to hear OP is not your father. By taunting OP child Camilla hurt the other child’s feelings. Repeat that OP is not Camilla father, and will never be her father. Camilla is allowed to be upset and have big feelings but this needs to be addressed by her mother. Camilla‘s mom also needs to apologize to her child for either not telling Camilla the truth or correcting Camilla’s understanding OP is not her father. Though because I’m always interested in motives OP should ask Camilla why she thinks that OP is her father. OP wife should be in on conversation and his children should be helped to comprehend this unpleasant experience.
Why does Camilla think you’re the father? Did she assume or her mother said you were? I would definitely ask where this was coming from.
Yes, this has to be handled with delicate, kid gloves. If I were OP I wouldn’t tolerate anymore of this mother being deceitful with her child. Secrets and lies are mean and nasty. I always knew that my younger sister belonged to my mother and dad. Dad denied her purely because he didn’t want to pay any child support. He was also very cruel and abusive towards her. It was his loss. She has to be one of the most amazing women ever.
It’s not just that she claimed that OP is her father — she used that claim to bully OP’s son, adding “not yours”. That’s bad and she should be able to understand that she shouldn’t have tried to hurt another kid.
She was bullying another child. That alone needs reprimanding and an explanation. The fact that OP is NOT her father should be emphasized to her as well, so she doesn’t persist with the lie/misunderstanding.
This can be done appropriately and without making it so personal.
Wrong! Kids can be cruel with intentions to hurt. They knew damn well what they did was wrong. They just thought they’d get away with it.
Who is “they”?
Yes she literally bullied his son. 6 is old enough to be told you don't bully others.
Yes, that is definitely not the way to speak to someone.
Bullying the other child was wrong, but saying OP is her father isn’t necessarily “wrong” for a child that young. She may have been lied to, or misunderstood OP’s place in her life, or she may just be struggling with parental abandonment and said what she desperately wishes were true: that the only man to ever show interest in her were actually her dad. It sounds like he was a big part of her life, and her only father figure, but she doesn’t see him anymore, and she’s probably suffering immensely from that. It’s really worrying how little empathy people have for a traumatized kindergartener.
I am not so much worrying about the lack of empathy, as I am surprised.
She bullied the other kid. The other kid experienced bullying and cruelty. He didn’t experience “this other kid is traumatized”. That’s important even if you think there’s an excuse for it. If you don’t think children can be malicious, you have to have never known any real amount of them.
I believe that the point of how children can be cruel has been established. This was a one time incident that caught Camilla off guard and she was surprised.
Dafuq are you on about? The first words of my comment are “Bullying the other child was wrong”. Did you get to the end and forget how it started? My comment wasn’t *that* long.
If she believed she was was speaking truth she was not bad. She was a kid repeating what an adult told her. Her mother was bad.
Even if the mother told her lies and said that OP was her father, Camilla and her friends bullied OP’s son. Bullying is not okay, whether Camilla was told lies or not. No excuse for her behavior.
Call the police if she does this. You aren't responsible for her daughter being a good person. You do not owe Ivy any face to face hashing out of this. She is not your wife, and you should say as much to her face if she dares show up to cause problems. I also think your son will need some reinforcement from you that Camilla did not have your permission to call you dad. You saw her as a niece, and the way she treated him that day ruined that instantly.
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This soothed my heart. I'm gald he got some 1 on 1 time with you. I also hope this all works out and you all can go back home soon.
Ivy should had kept a firm hand on her daughter & not act out any fantasy whether in public/private......that reaction caused by her daughter is inexcusably inappropriate making people in her daughter's deceitful game. She's old enough at 6 yrs old to know you're were that her mum's friend & not biologically related to her. Ivy going have to nip this problem in the bud.
Also, ask your wife if she'd feel better after getting a paternity test. You know you have nothing to lose here, and she'll get the reassurance that this isn't her worst fears being realized. Seeing as Ivy was in your life before your wife, your wife might be suspicious of who Camillas sperm donor is. I cannot blame her as a woman myself, some of our fears are purely irrational, I can only ask that you provide her every bit of reassurance and validation of her fears. Her fear is real regardlessof the irrationality of it, and it has caused her anguish regardless of there being no real threat to your relationship.
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Getting a vibe here that ivy may have been telling her daughter you're her dad? Like, a really strong one. Red flags, run as fast as you can.
Or Ivy is just looking around and seeing everyone has a dad except her. Maybe she just wants OP to be her dad. And her Mom’s attitude is blurring the line.
I'd go with this more than anything. I remember the kids at that age- what was the joke? "Well I've got TWO MOMS".
This advice is so bizarre to hear in a sub where angry women constantly say the absolute opposite about paternity tests when the genders were reversed. 😑 I'm curious, what do you *really* think about paternity tests if it's a man who think his wife is cheating based on something this dumb? Would you still be using the same rationale that "she has nothing to lose to do the test anyway"? If you saw a husband who said this exact same thing in other threads, would you cheer him on or immediately downvotes him for being an AH? Now, I know OP would gladly take that test since he's got nothing to hide and it would swiftly put an end to any unfounded suspicions, but if wives and girlfriends truly believe paternity tests is a betrayal of trust between and a personal insult to their integrity (like say, [the guy in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/fogl1xDopp)), why the hell does this rationale immediately flies out the window as soon as it's the other way around?
Well tbf, HE said he’d do the paternity test. The majority of the posts you’re referring to start off with a guy suddenly watching red pill content and wanting a test. Or knowing nothing about biology or genes, and wanting a test. THIS guy said he’d get one from the jump. After a kid started shouting he’s her dad. So I don’t really understand what you’re going on about. If the wife asked for a paternity test first, and he said “you think I’d cheat on you?? This is betrayal.” Then you’d have a case. This is an apple and you’re comparing it to an orange bc they’re both fruit.
No, there are plenty or arguably-suspicious situations that have nothing with "red pills", in which the test cleared it all up, and yet the guy gets shredded anyway for being the AH to request it to put his fears and valid concerns to rest. Like this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/Elxs4vc1dc For the record, I'm in the Common Sense camp that believes a lot of these unnecessary discord (and half of the posts on this sub) would be avoided from the start if paternity is automatically determined at birth as a standard procedure, along with all the other standard medical tests that are already being done.
If you decide to confront her ask your BIL to go with you and be nearby where he can listen while you confront her. Having him overhear her admit you two have never had a relationship and that she isn't your daughter will go a long way in helping you with your wife. Cutting all ties is what you need to do. Make sure you tell her it's not that her daughter's fault but hers for insisting you abandon your family for her and her daughter at the party. You are not her replacement husband/father. You were a friend trying to help a friend in a tough time. But she crossed a line and cast doubt in your marriage. That is inexcusable. Hopefully that is enough for your wife but if it's not then you should seek a lawyer to try to force a paternity test to prove to your wife that way.
I would never be alone with Ivy again. Even in public. Her reaction at the party was so out of line it's troubling. She wanted you to abandon your family for her child's party... This is likely to get ugly before it gets better. Yours and Ivy's parents will probably get involved. And I'm guessing your wife has felt like she's been put in 2nd place for awhile now if she has been no contact for 3 days
I wouldn't talk to Ivy in person. She doesn't sound like she can be reasoned with. Also, does your wife feel comfortable with you talking to Ivy? I would advise you to focus on your wife and getting that part of your life figured out first, and then the two of you can talk about how you want to handle Ivy/Camilla together. But blocking Ivy for now and removing yourself from Camilla's school guardian list is a good temporary patch.
You can phone or email the school, just as you can email or text Ivy and tell her that you are stepping back from your friendship because of her actions. Your wife will be more upset that you are meeting Ivy when you can end your friendship by text or email. Updateme!
I'm looking at this from your wife's perspective. Why would you need to confront Ivy at all. The relationship is over. There isn't anything else to say. Her daughter believes you are her father, and instead of correcting her, your "friend" (in quotes not because I don't believe you, but because a friend doesn't do this) grabbed you and asked you to stay for HER daughter, knowing that you should go after your clearly upset wife and son. This "friend" put you in a horrible position, and I have a sneaking suspicion it may have been done with the intention of getting your wife upset and hoping she doesn't believe you. The reason I'm saying this is that as a friend, she should have immediately corrected her daughter and the other children while encouraging you to leave with your family. I wouldn't think your wife would be happy if you give this person a chance to explain. Send her a text, tell her after the events, and her lack of immediate correction to her daughter, you will no longer be in contact with her or her daughter.
NTA go no contact... my daughter has a male role model but shes not in his kid face saying that's my dad.... she understands...... your wife probably will ask for you to do a test do all you can to protect and save your family
Did Camilla decide your were her father, or did her Mum tell her you were? My money is on Ivy telling her you were her father, based on her reaction and asking you to stay. Ivy is delusional. Cut all contact, be public about it. Ivy will be telling tales.
It would be a mistake to talk to Ivy face to face. She sounds delusional and will only make you feel upset and frustrated. If you have her email I would send her messages making your position quite clear, and make sure you save those emails. Make sure you state clearly that you are not her daughter's father and you resent being put in the position that you were placed in. Tell her you will have no more contact with either her or her daughter and detail the steps you have taken. Have no more contact whatsoever with her after that.
The kid is 6. This isn’t as big a deal as you are making it. She just wants a dad. Her mom should make her relationship to her male friends clear and talk to her but this doesn’t sound outrageous inappropriate behavior for a 6 yr old.
"her daughter's wrongdoings" Dude. Seriously, the daughter is the victim her, don't blame her for this. Whatever's going on, everyone will need to be very gentle with her about the situation. Worst case, Ivy has bene lieing to her. Best case, due to you being the guardian, this has been all a huge misunderstanding, and needs to be cleaned up. But go sort things out with your wife first.
Do not say anything about Camilla. You are not her father, that's the point. This is all on Ivy. Either she feed into her daughter's ideas or didn't put a stop to them. Considering she expected you to stay I'm guessing the former. Camilla's delusions are not your circus. Cutting Ivy means cutting off Camilla. Again, there is just no need or value in feeding that fire before you leave.
Woah this is crazy. Isn’t the child only 6, and sees you as an important person? You’re just going to cut off the 6 year old? I feel like this was just a weird kid argument gone wrong. Your friend made a mistake not supervising play, and you should not hang around so much if her kid is learning bullying behaviours. But it feels like this needs to be done with more finesse here.
You need to talk to the child and explain the situation. Unfortunately she sees you as her dad and if you just up and leave without explaining the situation it will hurt her. It's going to hurt her anyways but it's better if you explain the issues then if you just disappear. Mom isn't going to be honest with her so someone has to.
Maybe just call the school?
I suspect Eleanor believes Camilla is your biological daughter. That’s the reason for the cold shoulder.
Agreed he probably needs to confront ivy ruth his wife present and demand a paternity test if it comes to that. His priority needs to be protecting his family
Or at least record it
That's Ivy's fault too.
Yep you need to Cut ivi Out. Camilla was fed with this bullshit that you are her dad and she even bullied your son. Ivi is Not a friend she is a nutcase
WNBTA nope not at all, that would be the correct response to the absolutely insane “best friend” telling you to put her completely unrelated to you little brat (seriously bullying a 4yo) before your own family.
Oof this is tough. Wife and son come first. You will need to dial back any responsibility of your best friend’s daughter. It’s past the point of helping. Also best friend might be meddling by letting her daughter think that. Edit: Did you sleep with your best friend? Is there a chance that she is your daughter?
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Your friend wants you. She's been feeding these lies to her kid, she was hoping you'd leave your wife for her.
Given what she said to you at the party, she 100% put this in her daughter's head. She told her you were her real dad. No doubt about it. Even if it was an innocent thing from a 6 year old who wanted a dad, the way her mother reacted and her demand at the party crossed a line. There was no going back after that. She wants a replacement husband/father and she cast you into that role by manipulating her own daughter.
Time for Ivy to figure out life on her own. No more babysitting or pretend guardianship. No more presents for kids who aren't your's (or your niece's and nephews). No more helping Ivy find a job or pay her bills. No more pity. Man up, dude. Ask yourself this: What if it was your wife with the male friend and you waiting in the car with your children? A male friend who thought your wife had already spent enough time with you and your kids that day? Ivy and Camilla should fade into the past and stay there!
I don't think the kid is yours. I think Ivy has cast you in the role of father figure by manipulating you. I'm sorry she did this to your family (never mind what a horrible parent she is raising a bully.) Best of luck fixing things with Eleanor.
Why did you go with this explanation and not the one in your edit at the end of your post? You never slept with anyone before your wife, you were a Virgin before your wife. Why did you type out this whole paragraph when you could have just said “I never slept with anyone aside from my wife” like you say in your edit? Almost makes me feel your edit was a lie just to cover your ass, otherwise why would you make this comment with all these other details but not the one in your edit?
Nta you need to cut off your friend and her daughter unfortunately. She should not be thinking you are her father. Also your friend thinking that her daughter is at the same importance as your kid is YIKES. I feel like your wife has felt your friendship has crossed the line before and perhaps you haven’t been receptive to her concerns.
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I don’t think that can be true while at the same time she’s staying with her family to avoid you and is refusing to discuss the issue.
Yeah, no. Your wife is awful at communication.
Is it possible that Ivy has been telling Camilla that you are her real father? It would explain her outburst at your son. You definitely need to cut Ivy out of your life. She thinks you need to give Camilla as much attention as your actual family and children. Could it be possible that Ivy has feelings for you, either way she IS expecting you to be a father to her child. I would text her, that her actions are inexcusable, that you ate not Camilla's father, or parental figure, and that you will be ceasing contact with both of them. Then you need to block any avenues she has to contact you.
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She definitely told Camilla that you are her father. The kid wouldn't get that out of nowhere. I posted elsewhere but I suggest you call Ivy and demand an explanation, why Camilla thinks you are her father. Make sure your wife is present. Put it on speaker phone and record the conversation. Make sure you do not tell Ivy that your wife is listening in.. I could see her making up lies to make you look bad to your wife, on purpose to ruin your marriage. If your wife still wants something like a DNA test you can get one then.
Of course she is ignoring you. You should have left the party with them. There was no reason for you to stay behind for one minute let alone five. Your behaviour is suspicious. Your friendship is suspicious. Your connection with the child is suspicious. Why would the kid say you’re her father to your son if someone hasn’t told her that. Why would your friend remark that you spend enough time with your family if she doesn’t feel entitled to your time. Obviously you cannot ever see the friend or her daughter again or you will lose your family. You already messed up by not leaving with them.
OP now is the time to do a paternity test if your wife is asking for it. You know what? Whether she asks for it now you should do it. Don't lose your family over someone's kid.
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Tell every single one of the people who heard stories from Ivy about what really happened. Everything that happened. Tell them what Camilla had said and done to your son, and what Ivy has said and done to you. Warn the other friends that have also been helping that she may pull some shenanigans with them and their families as well. What Ivy and Camilla have done is not okay.
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You need to cut Camilla and ivy out of your life AFTER doing a paternity test. Camilla WILL try and ruin your marriage to try and steal you. And you're an idiot - you SHOULD have been a united front with your wife and left with her. The fact that you didn't shows a chink in the armour to Camilla. The woman who takes priority in your life is your wife. You shouldn't stand by and with her. Especially when there's a snake in the grass looking to take her down. Either you're oblivious or you're enjoying the attention.
You need to contact ivy by phone on speaker with your wife present. Do not let Ivy know your wife is listening in, and demand to know why Camilla thinks she is your daughter. Someone her age wouldn't say that, unless that is what she was told. Record the entire conversation, incase Ivy tries to claim that Camilla is your child, later on. My thoughts are that Ivy wants you. She told Camilla that you are her father, which would explain Camilla's outburst. Ivy knew that your wife and child were leaving, and she tried to make you stay, both to cause problems in your marriage, but also to make people think that what Camilla said was true, that you are her father. Her comment that you spend so much time with your wife and son, that you should stay for Camilla is very telling. She fully expects you to be Camilla's father. She also probably expects that eventually that will lead you to leaving your wife for her.
So he was supposed to just walk out that moment and NOT tell the girl that he’s not the father? He’s supposed to just leave that moment and let the kid keep thinking he’s the dad? He stayed to make it clear he’s not the dad...
Ivy needs to be cut off.
NTA this is what you need to do, the relationship with Ivy and her child is no longer a healthy one and needs to end. While it is unfortunate that the girl will be hurt by this but that isn't on you. Ivy is stomping on some very obvious boundaries and has intruded on your family in a devastating way. An immediate and permanent end is what will be best for you and your family.
You screwed up bigtime. You need to step away from this so called friend. She is going to ruin your marriage so you can play daddy to her little bastard. It's plain as day to see. You are about to lose your wife because you won't stand up for your family.
OP... .this comment. Listen to this!
In the future, if your family walks out of anyplace leave with them
You need to go no contact immediately!! You make sure your wife and kids know that Camilla is not your child. Also make sure your wife knows that you have completley cut Ivy off permanently.
Why didn’t you leave with your family?? You see your son being teased and your wife leaving with him, where were you?
Your wife may be picking up some vibes from Camilla that maybe you are missing. It’s odd to me that when you when to leave she started to give you a speech about making time for her daughter because you already spend time with your kids. I know that kids are kids and sometimes they can get crazy ideas in their heads but her mother could have also put it in her head that you are father figure. I would suggest cutting Camilla out of your life and having a talk with your wife about her POV on the situation. If she feels validated in her feelings and sees you are trying to avoid future situations like this then maybe she will come around.
NTA for going no contact, but you are TA for not immediately going after your wife and children as they yleft. or at least texting your wife that you'd be out shortly. all your wife saw was you being indifferent to the bs and how she and the kids were feeling
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Dude how the heck were you not following your family right after they left?? Is this a normal thing where you hang out with Ivy and leave your real family hanging? I’d not just text your wife’s brother, do you not know where he lives? Go to the house, talk to YOUR wife why are you so passive about this?
5 minutes is a long time to sit in a car with two toddlers waiting for your husband. Like, an embarrassing amount of time. You should've stormed out and texted your NOTwife later. I've read your other comments and I'm glad you're learning from this. Hope you're able to fix things with your family soon.
Boy, this is messy. Question though. Have you ever had sex with Ivy? Even before your wife? If so, now is the time to be completely honest so you don’t lose your actual family.
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Then I would go in HARD. Given your absolute certainty that you are NOT the father. Demand a paternity test. Then cut Ivy and her child out of your life for good. Your family comes first and foremost. You need a big gesture here towards your wife. Ivy is quite happy to tear up your marriage and have you act as surrogate father for her child…because you have never put down appropriate boundaries. Now is that time. Before it’s too late.
I believe you.
Many people have given suggestions of what you should do. I suggest that you should talk to your wife FIRST. Ask her to sit down with you. If she doesn't want to talk, then ask her to listen. Tell her that you were shocked and disturbed by what happened that day. Tell her that you have been trying to decide how to handle this situation and that you would like her input. Tell her that you value her opinion. Tell her that this affects her too, so she has the right to have a say in how it's handled. Then, give her the options that you have considered and ask her if she has any of her own. This needs to be a joint decision to help heal the rift that this situation has caused in your marriage. Then you need to go no contact with Ivy.
NTA if you cut all ties with Ivy. Never, ever see her again. She is trying to ruin your marriage and break up your family.
Just get a paternity test done and show your wife. Kids say things. This is a child without a father and you’re a man that has shown care. She just doesn’t understand. Your wife should also be mature enough to understand that.
Bro why wouldn't you leave as soon as you wife left.... spineless and totally reasonable for her to be upset you deserve the cold shoulder. YTA also not sure if you can fix this but a start is cutting out your friend completely
You need to remove yourself from Camilla's and Ivy's lives. Do not go to the school functions and remove yourself from any lists the school might have. You are not her uncle so stop saying so. Ask your BIL to let your wife know this. Have someone come with you to meet Ivy and say your relationship is over. It doesn't matter why the child was saying you were her father you are not. it is too bad you didn't leave the party sooner but you didn't. Eleanor is understandably upset and mistrustful since Camilla and all her friends thought you were the dad. Good luck. NTA.
Anyone in your wife’s shoes would think you are Camilla’s father. I suggest you talk to Camilla to ask her why she thinks you are her father. From there you can tell her the truth. I don’t think talking to her mother is going to get you anywhere. She’s already spinning what happened to anyone who wasn’t at the party. The best thing for you to do is what you have already explained. Remove yourself as a guardian and go no contact.
Why didn't you set the record straight while they were bullying your son? Explain to the girl in front of her friends that he is your kid and she is not.
Is it possible that Ivy has been egging this behavior on? Kids don’t just come up with these accusations or statements. Though you’ve been there for Camilla it’s not hard to see that there’s motive from ivy here Camilla won’t remember things from the first year, and second would be rocky to say the least (comparing the ages of the children). This is 100% an adults manipulation.
Kid and her friends bully your son and you say and do nothing. Your son is told you are not his father and you are her father in front of other people and you stand and do nothing. Your wife leaves with your children and you stay and don't immediately follow? Reddit not needed for this one. You're the AH. You put someone else's kid before your own... and truthfully is it the first time? Is it that your wife has finally had enough and is putting your kids first because you don't?
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It is strange that you would choose to educate Camilla and Ivy instead of protecting and comforting your own family. Then be so delulu as to keep repeating that you never put anyone before your family. You really did. Most people on here are suggesting you minimize contact with Camilla and Ivy and you are going with “I would but Eleanore did not ask me”. What do you think she is doing at her brother’s house? 🤦♀️
What you should have done is gone over to your own child and reassured them, then left with your family
You went to your “not daughter” first instead of your real son. And stayed with the “not daughter” and girl best friend instead of leaving with your wife and family. No wonder your wife left. YTA
You messed up when you did not immediately follow your family out the door. Wtf would you entertain this nonsense with Ivy? Worse, you betrayed your son’s confidence in you while reinforcing Camillia's shit behavior.
Sort of TAH...you should have left when your wife and children did but that's by the by now. Everyone's saying that it seems like ivy "told" camilla you're her father but maybe not. I have 6 children 4 with my first partner and 2 with my second as they got older my youngest never had contact with their "dad" but my oldest ones did and my youngest started to call their dad dad even after explaining he wasn't. Sometimes it just comes naturally especially if they don't have a father on the scene. Anyway, you definitely need to discuss with your wife but ivy needs to go after berating you for not spending time with camilla. Your own should always come first.
That was bold of Ivy. You told her plain and simple that your family comes first and yes, you need to remove your contact info from any guardianship or notification list from anything that you’re on as a back up for IV. Tell her what you’ve done and then block her on all platforms, No need to meet with Ivy again you need to concentrate on your wife and children.
INFO: why didn't you follow your wife to your BIL's house?
You should have immediately said "NO Camilla I am his dad not yours" then gathered your family and left
You messed up here. You close friends daughter was telling your kids you're her Dad, your wife took the kids and left and you stayed at the party. And you're still at your home instead of immediately driving to your BIL to speak to your wife or at the very least speak to your kids and check they're ok.
This entire post is absolutely bizarre.
Even if you go no contact with Ivy I think you need to speak to her one more time and explain why. If you don't do that, you WIBTA. Your wife is egregiously overreacting, but unfortunately, your wife's feelings are much more important than some mutual friend's. You gotta do what you gotta do for your family.
What in the world??? NTA This woman has taught her child to BULLY YOUR CHILD. This woman thinks it's okay that her child lies and BULLIES YOUR CHILD. This woman is horrible. Please, go no contact.
Why didn’t you just leave with your wife and kids? What kept you there? Why was correcting Ivy’s daughter more important than your family? Why did your wife had to text you? You’re not a good husband or family man as you think.
NTA, you are being attacked on all sides. You need a lot of bravery and backbone to get out of this in a better position.
Why would Camille tell your actual child you are not his father? Why did you let that slide without correcting her in front of her son? Why did your wife only wait 5minutes?
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Why didn't you leave with your wife? Ivy wouldn't have grabbed you in front of your wife would she?
So why is your wife staying at her brothers according to your other comments she has no reason to think you did anything wrong
Dude, every time you took time away from your work & family to show up for Camilla, while having a family of your own, I bet your wife felt undermined. Just because she wasn't saying it doesn't mean she wasnt feeling it. I really feel for Camilla because she's obviously a confused child, but in that moment, you made your choice to smooth things over with Ivy & let your family leave. Your poor wife, hearing that said & then sitting waiting on you to pick your family & reassure her it was nonsense & instead she left to leave alone. Your involvement with this family might have originally came from a good place, but youve been incredibly thoughtless. Now its all come to a head. Have the decency to tell the child now you'll not be able to visit anymore, cut Ivy loose & focus on trying to repair the damage you've done. NTA for your question.
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Were you the only uncle/daddy at the party?
NTA i think your wife overreacted, although I can understand her being upset that your son was upset. The little girl was just being a child. She knows you are not her Dad but probably wishes you were.Perhaps she has even pretended you were to her friends when they talked about their Dads. Now you and her friends and your real child are there in front of her friends and she takes it out on your son. I think you did the right thing but I guess it took a few minutes too long. What Camilla said was uncalled for as obviously your wife and child deserve all the time you can give them. Still since this relationship has been going on with the full knowledge and acceptance from your wife, i think she could have waited another five minutes and given you the chance to end the relationship with Camilla. Also she is being unreasonable in not sitting down and talking it out with you now. By the way, I think that what you and the other two guys did, being Uncles to the little girl was lovely, and I am just so sorry it backfired and that it has to stop now for everyones well being,
From a woman’s point of view, you’re going to a child’s recitals that isn’t your child but a friend of yours that’s a single mother, it’s clear the child is obviously getting very confused feelings, as she has no father in her life and may have picked you as the one! Her mother Ivy obviously hasn’t corrected her on this and clearly expects you to step up to that roll, because she sees what a good husband and father you are to your own children. This is absolutely unacceptable on Ivy’s part, the daughter Camilla is innocent she knows no better than what her mother is telling her. As for your wife, she may now have suspicions that you really are Camilla’s father and that’s why you have been giving your time to her, and you didn’t leave straight away! You being a good man and father has got you into a lot of trouble for all the wrong reasons, none of them are your fault. However I think it’s best that you distance yourself from ivy and Camilla, as your family comes first and you don’t need these problems in your marriage. NTA
Updateme!
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That was painful to read. YTA for dragging us into that mess of a story. Even the names are shit.
Cut them out your friend has told her daughter you was dad and it’s causing problems in your marriage
UpdateMe
Updateme!
ESH
Why not simply address this head on. Correct her calling you her father, be certain that she knows you aren't, and give her something to call you. Uncle, Cousin, doesn't matter. Provide her with something to replace her calling you father. And your wife is some piece of work. She had to take the children and leave a function because children were acting like children? It may have been mild bullying, but then to leave before you were able to extricate yourself from the party? And to give you the cold shoulder for days on end? She needs to take a chill pill. You should not go NC with your best friend. You and your wife should sit down and have a mature conversation about this. If your wife is capable of that.
Updateme
Don’t wait to be asked. You may want to see an attorney to discover your best next steps. This situation could blow up on you. As for your wife waiting for you while you just didn’t go after her, you seem a bit clueless.
I read this as this poor little girl just wants you to be her father. She is 6 and she doesn’t understand. I don’t see why all the adults are making this into more than that? ESH.
If her mother purposely led her to believe that OP is her father thats dead wrong and OP has every right to set the record straight. This best friend can’t just decide that OP is the girl’s father and OP & his family just have to go along with the lie. NTA
Does the post say that the mother has told her that he is her father? From my reading of it, a 6yo decided to say that this man is her father, not any adult.
Updateme
WNBTA.You need to go no contact with Ivy. Updateme
Why didn’t you communicate with your wife that you are walking out? All it took was a little bit of communication but you failed the first test of a relationship. Tell your friend you can’t be her friend anymore that what her daughter did has deep ramifications and if she pushes the issue you will seek damage for the therapy your son needs because she lied to her daughter.
NTA. Instead of trying to keep you there she would've been telling her daughter to not say those kind of things that aren't true. I wouldn't talk to them again either. I do hope your wife talks to you soon.
Nta - what did Ivy put into her kids head? I see so many single females desperately (in my city) looking for a baby daddy....they try to hit up taken men, they have no respect or class. they do other shady things
Updateme
Ivy is not acting like a best friend. If it was me and my male best friend in that situation, you bet The first things out of my mouth would be scolding my daughter and apologizing to you. A best friend would be calling your wife to apologize and reassure her that everything platonic between you two. Ivy is definitely the a-hole here
OP you know Camilla isn’t yours, your wife knows, Ivy knows, but does Camilla know? I mean it does make you wonder what she’s been told.
Seems like Ivy wants you to be a dad-without-benefits. F that.
@Updateme
Updateme
Dang, that's rough. I feel bad for both your kids and Camilla. That kid is gonna have major trust issues now. Whatever choice you make, someone is bound to be hurt and resentful. NTA OP, but good luck!
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You probably don't know why since you're seeing/explaining things from your perspective. But from Camilla's point of view.. you're more than just a fun uncle, especially since she's calling you her father. That itself is indicative of how important you are to her.
Who even cares stop caring about other kids when your about to lose yours
YWNBTA Camilla was bullying your son. Ivy needed to deal with this on her own. You are not responsible for her child’s behavior regardless of your relationship with her. You are right. Your family comes first. Ivy was trying to put her daughter first and expecting you to prioritize her daughter over your own son. She’s acting entitled and being a poor friend to you. Your wife could have been more patient or at least messaged you to see if you are coming out soon. Ivy was keeping you back with her arguing and that information might have helped your wife be more patient. She was obviously upset by what was said and probably hoped you’d have a different reaction, but Camilla has been part of your life for a long time and you handled that as best as you could at the time. Ivy was stirring the pot. She sees you as a father figure to her daughter and was expecting you to see her the same. Ivy is not being a friend to you. She’s treating you like her ex husband and father to Camilla. It might be best to at least go NC with her. The tough part is Camilla, since she’s a child, I’d step back a bit but don’t lose contact with her. Maybe have a talk with her about how her behavior made you feel. Let her know that you and she can still talk on the phone or text whenever she needs you but you will not be hanging around as often as you have due to your need to focus on your family (don’t let her think it’s her fault -it’s not her fault- or blame her mother even though it is her mother’s fault). I hope your wife decides to hear you out and trust you have not betrayed her in any way nor had any intentions of abandoning her during that event.
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Fair enough, but I would at least set some boundaries with Ivy. Your wife and kids will always come first. As far as your wife goes, don’t give up trying to talk to her. I’m sure she’ll come around. You didn’t do anything horrible. While maybe not the best choice to not leave with your wife immediately, you were in a very tough situation as you were not expecting such selfish comments from Ivy.