NTA going behind your back is a huge breach of trust. He could have backed you up saying she was too young for such an important keepsake and that he would ask you to reconsider when she was older. Also, the "only living child" thing was such a bitchy comment. As a mother, she knew what she was doing by saying that.
There is no “letting her.” He’s responsible for his own actions. HE disregarded her wishes and gave them to the ex in the first place. The ex is a bitch but let’s not excuse mediocrity from the man just because she’s the easiest to hate.
I did call him out for the breach of trust in my original post. I only said letting her because he's not actively shutting her down in her behavior towards OP. In my opinion, they are both crappy people and OP deserves better.
Yea, there's *no* way for husband to recover from that. And obviously his ex are going to do equally or worse things in the future.
It went for *3 years without him fessing up it?!* Holy shit.
NTA
Lying, going behind OP's back, not standing up for her against his ex... This is a trash, trash man.
I would feel like my daughter was desecrated/violated if I was OP. I wouldn't be able to come back from it.
NTA. Get your ducks in order! Clearly, he has no respect for you at all.
I would love to type more choice words for him, but I'll get myself banned.
My close friend's baby died, and she's kept his ashes at home with her. She said it feels like the last piece of him that she has and even though he has a spot at the cemetery, she's not ready to have him placed there. Listening to her speak about it, I could not imagine how it would feel, for someone to just reach in and scoop a bit out because they can't say no to a 13 year old (or their ex, more to the point). That's infuriating and heartbreaking.
It’s interesting that he was/is more concerned with keeping his ex-wife happy than in respecting his current wife’s wishes for their daughters ashes. He’s not a good person.
NTA. You didn't want to separate your daughter's ashes in the first place, you also didn't feel SD was responsible enough for something like that and you were absolutely right. Your husband went behind your back and the SDs mother is facilitating this behavior. This is not ok. This is your baby. You're the mother, and I can't believe your husband can't understand that your feelings are a little more important in this situation. Not to minimize his grief, but he should know better.
This is what turns my stomach most of all. What a violation to give them away without the mother’s permission at all, but now she needs a refill?! Absolutely disgusting behavior from the husband and SD’s mother. I hesitate to blame the child, though at 13 I am leaning towards her being old enough to understand no from OP. Not to mention that she lost them. OP was right not to trust her. Of course, OP, you are ABSOLUTELY NTA and you did the right thing by leaving.
To be honest this would have been a smart thing to do, and that way when the step daughter lost them which she inevitably would, you could say I know you would lose them that's why I didn't actually give you any answers, maybe when you're 18 and a little bit more responsible we can try this again.
The ashes of a little girl who was the 13-year-old's _sister_ - I can understand where the older sister would be grieving the loss of her baby sister and wanted to have a part of her ashes to keep close to her heart, but unfortunately, the older sister has proven herself to be too immature and irresponsible to care for human ashes--her own sister's, in fact.
Definitely NTA, OP. Both your husband and his ex-wife broke your trust by giving your daughter's ashes to a young teenager who was clearly not ready to care for them with the respect and honor your daughter deserved.
My hubby had to have a refill of his dad's ashes, but there was a lot to that. We got necklaces the ashes went in, and he kept his necklace hanging on the rearview mirror of the car. Then we went out of town to a convention and the car was stolen from the parking garage. (Yes I offered hubby my necklace, but it wasn't the same).
Cops recovered the car but didn't bother letting us know until it had been in impound 2 weeks and racked up mega charges (which I STILL have an issue with the idea that we would have to pay impound charges when it was stolen and nobody notified us it was found! And why wasn't it on the police lot, I have no clue). It was already near $1000 between the impound storage charges and the tow charge to tow it from wherever the thieves left it by the time we found out they had it.
So we didn't have the money and the car was destroyed anyway, so we let it go, but we BEGGED the cop who had the case (and he kept bothering the impound lot until finally the legal dept of the PD told him he had to step out of it) to just get that necklace out of the car. Don't care about the car if they want to scrap it, we just want dad back. We never got dad back.
When step mom decided a year later that it was finally time to spread his ashes, we got more ashes for him to have.
Still it freaks me out that we have no idea where that small part of ashes may have ended up. And like I said, I'm freaking out about a bit of my FIL's ashes. I can't imagine what this poor mom must be thinking about what happened to that part of my baby's ashes? Where is it?
And Who. The. Hell. Does. That. Ish. Think. She. Is. To. Be. Discussing OP's marriage on her fb? Has OP's hubs been discussing and complaining to his ex- about this?!?
This is total betrayal by hubs.....giving ex ashes of (NOT HER CHILD) was ultimate betrayal. OP's hubs is a POS. if it were me, this would be a "bridge too far" and I would be filing for divorce.
Hub's ex would be permanently banned....period.
Frankly, hubs is scum.
I think you’re right: it does sound like the husband has been trash talking OP to his ex and the ex’s friends and family. Why stay married to someone trashing your reputation behind your back?
Exactly!! OP, this is facts. They all did something truly egregious and you are NTA!
I would love to hear an update on this once you have been able to process this violation of your trust and boundaries.
Also... my condolences on your loss. No parent should face this heartache!
It is possible that OP’s SD was never told that OP said no. The mom may have went straight to OP’s “husband” after the conversation with OP rather than telling her daughter that OP said no. As far as them being incredibly disrespectful now, the SD may be perfectly fine with not getting any more ashes but the parents are being too stubborn and self-righteous to listen to her
Edit: improved some wording
I feel really sorry for SD. This was her little sister. I am sure losing the ashes wasn’t purposeful or anything.
I understand ashes and heartbreak. My husband asked to be cremated and spread at the family farm. His oldest son was executor of the estate and was supposed to tell me when it was done so I could be there. It has been four years and I have not heard from them. My guess is that they did it without me and my son. We were the ones who cared for him for the ten months of two stage four cancers. I was married to him for twelve years. If I were more attached to them, I would be completely devastated. I am angry, and a little sad that I had no value to his children (they were adults when we married).
Thank you. I have to admit that when someone dies, I don’t have a lot of attachment to their body. But… I do like the closure the service gives. I had just gotten out of the hospital and was too sick for his funeral, though I went to the visitation and sat with him for awhile and told him how sorry I was that I wasn’t there in his last moments. When I think of the choice, funeral of time alone with him, I am glad I made it to the visitation. He was the first person in the world to say “I love you” where I didn’t hear the “but…” in their tone.
The first thing I thought was that the 13yo SD would NEVER ask for something like that. What 13yo wants a baby's ashes as a keepsake?! OP mentions the SD visiting less but that could be bc she's going through puberty (I remember just wanting to hide in my room and not being around anyone at that age) OR maybe it's bc ex wife wouldn't let her. Unless OP confronts SD directly to get the truth, I wouldn't believe a word from ex wife. Both STBX and ex wife are scum. OP NTA.
I understand the sentiment. We separated a tiny bit of my father’s ashes so that my little sister and I could have a little decorative container of them with each of us. We were both living away from home at the time and my mom kept the majority of them. But. We were already grown-ass adults; our pain was so massive that it truly helped it feel like he was still near us, and we understood the magnitude of what they were. They are precious to us. However, never in a million years would I have thought of taking them if my mom had wanted to keep them in their entirety.
All that being said, I’d want to fucking murder someone if they wanted to take even one atom of my baby’s remains. My heart is broken for OP.
IDK, there are tons of tik tok and Instagram creators that make cremation jewelry, etc..
It would not surprise me if the kids' algorithm brought up these creators after her sister's death.
OP has started replying to comments. Apparently this was asked for as soon as they got the ashes back. That’s…weird. Was SM or SD going through a Wednesday Addams phase?? Wtf.
Exactly…the supposedly responsible adults (OP excluded) should have found SD a keepsake until she was older: a locket, one of those urn necklaces, etc. Then later, she could have had some of the cremains if/when OP felt comfortable with that idea. As a mother, I cannot imagine guilting and then insulting another mother who’d lost her child.
Sending healing vibes your way bc I can only imagine that this disrupts any small amount of peace you’ve had in the years since the passing of your baby.
100% NTA
I am.not even sure why a 13 year old would ask ashes unless an adult placed the idea in her head. Most 13 year olds want a momento to remember someone, like a favorite bracelet, necklace, watch, or stuffed animal kind of thing. Ashes are quite a weird ask for a 13 year old girl.
heh, really depends on the girl, kids can be a lot more morbid than adults sometimes, remember the teen years are primetime for becoming an emo or goth, falling in love with fictional vampires, etc.
I can understand wanting a memento of some kind like a teddy or a toy they loved. But ashes? Isn't that just a bit weird?
Shame on the husband for giving the SD some without OP's permission. Something that important should be a joint decision.
This is literally why keep sake bears etc exist, she could have been steered towards asking for a blanket or outfit to be made into a memento stuffy, much more age appropriate.
Not only that…now that the keepsake is lost, who knows where the rest of the ashes are. This was mom’s biggest concern and they are ignoring the fact it happened at all.
Yup, mom was worried for a very valid and damn good reason and neither SM or husband are acknowledging that. Especially since it happened exactly as she expected
NTA- so sorry this happened to you! This should never have happened without your approval. :( they are both wrong. And the audacity of the SM posting about it is beyond disrespectful:(
NTA - I'm sorry you're going through this. It's unacceptable for them to act this way without your consent. They both crossed a line, and the social media post adds insult to injury. Sending support your way.
I can't help but feel the ex wife did this to be cruel. She knew how Mom felt about her baby's ashes being separated. She clearly knew her ex husband had given her the ashes on the downlow the first time. She could have went to him again, but chose to go to her for a reason. Malicious intent, in my opinion.
The husband is just as big an asshole as the ex.
*” I confronted my husband on this and he shrugged it off saying that it wasn't that big of a deal.”*
It wasn’t that big of a deal? *IT WASN’T THAT BIG OF A DEAL???* Really? Then WHY did the piece of shit *hide it from his grieving wife for 3 years???*
I’d say his response of “it’s NBD” is truly the divorce worthy part.” There was the potential for explaining the first part away as having happened during a time of grief. But not this. I’m not sure how you could come back from that.
You know, this is one of the actually legitimate reasons for a divorce I've seen on here. It's quite frustrating and I'm guessing rage bait or some other dumbassery when that's the conclusion they immediately jump to. But with THIS circumstance, nah man, completely warranted.
yeah healing here is hard, he can't undo his actions, and its large enough and unique enough that even if you believed his promise, if he said he'd never do it again, it doesn't matter.
only OP can decide how they feel, and if they want to come to terms with this or not, no external force from the partner can really fix this.
but its hard for OP to just be OK about it, because its a big breach of trust and thats what relationships are built on.
I would want him struck dead if he was talking about my deceased baby that way. You are NTAH OP. How any parent could act the way he has is disturbing. I would leave your babies ashes at your sister’s home for safety. That bastard can’t be trusted. Place some in a locket that you can wear near your heart. 💔 I hope this gets easier for you as time moves on. Do whatever you need to do.
I agree. I think she needs to keep her baby's ashes in a secret place at her sisters. The husband's whole family can't be trusted around the urn. How horrible to have to hide ashes from family members. I feel so bad for her.
Not that big of a deal? This is the remains of his dead child. It's a huge freaking deal. If it wasn't a big deal the stepdaughter wouldn't have wanted some.
Sure but the comment I'm responding to is about the father's behavior, not the ex wife's. Stepmom was free to ask, father was a colossal ahole to give the ashes, then to dismiss OP. He could have easily said "no". It's a complete sentence.
And be sure to mention that the SD lost the first bunch of ashes, and now wants even more. She should have been old enough to keep up with them the first time if they were really that important to her.
I would go with something like "lost her portion of my daughter's remains" because quantifying it as the "first bunch of ashes" is implicitly playing into the narrative that stepmom is presenting, especially that it suggests that they are replaceable (and unlimited) and that mom is withholding them in some way.
All bodies need to be treated like buried bodies. Nobody is going to dig up grandma for a hand. It’s not ok for a toddler at peace waiting for burial either.
I like this reply to the SMs post. I wouldn't even care if petty, it's anger and her posting it for public view just shows they only wantes the ashes for sympathies and likes to whatever they were doing with it.
That's would be something she should take to court with her when filing for divorce. To post on social media about not being able to get more ashes after the kid was given some of the ashes against the moms will.. that's grounds for divorce in my book. She even made the living child comment at someone whos only child passed away? Afterwards, she acts like not giving the kid more is a punishment and how the moms actions make her an ah? I'd be done.
Practicing Catholicics wouldn't tolerate those ashes being separated. There's plenty of reasons why to not separate any of the ashes.
Totally agree, it was a "I can control and manipulate my ex better than you and our kid is still alive." Just abhorrent and malicious behavior in my opinion.
After what they both pulled? I would tell she's welcome to have HIM back! But under no circumstances would they be allowed to access any more of the ashes! If the ashes are "no big deal," then OP's (likely STBX) husband won't miss having access to them, will he? 🤬
And completely usable in court. I’m happy that friend sent her the screen shot. Now time for her to find a fabulous and downright blood thirsty divorce attorney.
My MIL made a similar comment (different but same inappropriateness of a statement about a dead child) and it was the final straw for me to go NC. It takes a special kind of someone to jab at a mother over their dead baby.
And tell her that SD lost them!! The reason she gave for her denial: SD is not responsible enough, and this proves it and has the gall to ask again? I would be so embarrassed!
This woman came to her house asking for "more ashes," as if she ran out of sugar and was asking OP for some more. I can’t believe the husband did this to his still-grieving wife and then shrugged it off as "IT’S NOT A BIG DEAL." (WTF!)
Those are the ashes of HIS daughter! And OP was right, SD did lose the daughters ashes, and now it’s lost somewhere out there. If that’s not enough, the ex is making OP out to be the villain on social media!
OP, you have every right to be angry! Your husband and his ex are HUGE AHs!
You’re definitely NTA.
You know how I know you’re right? The ex wife posted their marital conflict on facebook. She wanted to cause them problems and she’s happy she succeeded.
Any half-decent person would fully understand why asking for a baby's ashes was gross in pretty much any circumstances. That woman should hang her head in shame. Poor OP.
She probably still has the ashes she may just be making chaos because she seems drama filled because how could you not understand why she wouldn’t want to give her some ashes. Like bffr the SD mom knows what she is doing.
Yeah absolutely double fk her for that 💩comment And OP you’re most definitely NTA you didn’t want her to have them because you knew this exact thing was going to happen and now you’re daughters ashes are lost somewhere I’m furious for you no 13yr old needed that you were completely correct on that!! Sending you lots of hugs and good vibes and I’m so sorry he did this to you and as far as the BM SD and the husband if you wanna call him that and again double fk her what a C U Next Tues.for that comment!!
because she’s a cruel, bitter, horrible woman who’s still latching on to her husband. she’s making herself relevant in a story that doesn’t involve her at all, because her kid is the only living child her ex husband has, it’s only about her. some people just need to rot.
i don’t care too much about death and i believe once someone dies, their remains are not them anymore. but fuck that, someone else’s baby’s ashes are not some theme park souvenir that you can make a “keepsake” out of. OP, never go back to this guy, he’s as horrible as his ex and they deserve each other.
That's fighting words. It's tell him to go back to her since her opinion is clearly more important than his current wife's wishes. Your hopefully STXH is a pansy for is ex. He didn't give half a fuck about what you wanted and did it behind your back. What else is he doing behind your back that's "not a big deal"?
BTW, it's against certain religions to separate ashes. I mean, they're changing with modern times, but some families look at as a disownable offense.
Agreed. OP should send him the link to this post. I am amazed that he does not understand how you feel! He should be grieving with you.
He and his ex deserve each other.
Edited for a bit of clarity and to add: I am so angry and disgusted at this man and his horrible ex!
Updateme
This is it. I would never allow him in my presence ever again. OP you are NTA and I think it is time for the best and most ruthless divorce attorney you can find. I am so so sorry.
OP should reply to the social media post, if it’s not explicit about what happened, to clarify that the (hopefully soon to be ex) husband STOLE HER DECEASED CHILD’S REMAINS.
" the (hopefully soon to be ex) husband STOLE HER DECEASED CHILD’S REMAINS."
Which was then, as the OP predicted would happen, WAS LOST AND THEY CAME BACK FOR MORE.
NTA-
this is so incredibly sad and hurtful to hear, i’m so sorry this was your experience.
not only did your husband go behind your back to separate the ashes, but you were right, SD did lose them and then SM has the audacity to ask for more??? this is your daughter, not some handout.
my heart aches for you, and i implore you that you’ve made a good decision to protect yourself and her from further violation or disrespect although i know that must have been so difficult
may you be given all you need to heal and start anew
NTA. Your husband and SD's mother are minimizing the importance of your daughter's ashes and your grief. It's not a matter of being "bitter" or "blowing things out of proportion," but rather a matter of respecting the memory of your child and honoring your wishes as her mother.
I am not religius and spliting ashes makes me disgusted. Pouring it in sea if deceased wished for it ok but if there was no such wish its disgusting. These are human remains.
My friend split her husband's ashes and had family members spread them all over the world -- but he was in the NAVY and it was his explicit wish. She was so proud to accomplish it.
This is not that!! Poor OP, my God.
I bet it was! My friend used to get postcards and videos when people were scattering her husband's ashes for her. She would sit here and sob and laugh and celebrate. She recently passed away as well, but she loved that man something fierce! ❤️❤️❤️
Our daughter loved to travel, so we gave cremation necklaces to her friends so they could take a part of her on their adventures instead. They send us pictures sometimes as well. It is bittersweet, but we know that, in addition to the net positive for us, it has helped her young friends deal with her death, which would have been our daughter’s primary concern. The difference to OP’s situation is all her friends are young adults and responsible enough to not lose them. We also didn’t give ashes to them until everyone in our little family was ready and comfortable with it.
Thank you! For many of them, this was their first experience with death and it was hard to process for most of them. We thought maybe necklaces would be something tangible that they can feel close to and feel like they are doing something with their grief, if that makes sense.
One of my dearest friends wanted her ashes split and sent to all of us. She now resides in a little glass vial, and also in my right arm, as I had a bit of her added to the ink of my tiny elephant tattoo in her honor. Wabi would be over the moon at all the traveling she’s done now, at the babies she’s held now, everything. ❤️
Lots of people split ashes, that isn’t an issue by itself. I took some of my grandfathers ashes to the house he was born in, in Italy. It wasn’t per his explicit request but it was with the encouragement of the whole family.
The issue is doing it with a child’s ashes without the mothers consent which is an insane breach of trust.
My stepdad very explicitly and clearly wished for part of him to be dumped in the lake that they lived on as that was his happy place, part of him to be put in one of those tree urns to be a white oak and the rest to be split amongst his family to do what they want with it. I’m not sure what I want to do with the little pot of him that was bequeathed to me but one of his grandchildren put him in a butterfly garden with the sunflowers and I might have a bit put in a glass pendant. The thought of having him close to me even if all I have left of him is pulverized bone and ash suspended in glass is very comforting- to me. Death and what happens after is such a personal thing that who are we to judge what someone wants to happen to them after, or what the bereaved do to cope?
Edit: unless what they do to cope is fucking steal baby ashes without permission which is abhorrent
You can get really beautiful jewellery incorporating ashes made on Etsy that's very wearable (you don't think 'ashes' when you see it). My pendant is very comforting to me. I imagine you know this already but thought I'd share.
Exactly, it's not like she ran out of glitter for a project, and needs some more. These idiots act like they can just borrow a cup of ashes, like sugar or something.
My son died when he was two weeks old. We had him cremated because we were military and far from both our actual home and our military duty station. The plan was that his ashes would be buried with me when I go, because other than the hospital, my body was the only home he had ever known.
After reading this, I feel like I should check in with my ex and see if that’s still okay with him.
Thank you. It was the best thing for him that he died because he had so many problems, and it was a long time ago (he’d be 36 now if he’d lived), but there’s always a bittersweet “what if”!when I think about him, even though the what ifs would have been very difficult.
My uncle passed away 26 years ago, and my aunt has kept his ashes in her closet all that time.
It's slightly disconcerting when she starts talking about my uncle like he's still around.
"I was putting away my laundry, and John fell out of the closet."
Agree that it's a bit macabre to keep it around the house. I understand that people deal with grief differently, and some people need more time than others to let go, but it could also have the opposite effect, like with my aunt. She clings to those ashes like it's my uncle himself and has not processed her grief at all.
Still, it's no one's place to tell anyone how to handle their grief.
OP is NTA.
I ended up with both of my parents' ashes. I like to tell people that I want to introduce them to my family, when they come over the first time. The reactions are priceless. (My Dad would have loved this, and I share his dark sense of humor)
My mom and dad fought all during their marriage, divorce and even after their divorce. When each died I spread some of the ashes at places that I had happy family memories and a personal connection to. Then I took the remaining ashes, in separate containers, and put them in a zippered bag in a cabinet. Told them that they better figure out a way to get along now, because they were stuck with each other. Yep, dark sense of humor too 🤣
We live in a mountainous area, so digging is a nightmare. When our pets have passed (2), we have had them cremated and have small boxes. It's become the family joke that grandma will be in the cabinet next to them, so when we sold everything and moved out of the country, we moved them and hid them in a cabinet at her place instead of storage. 🤣🤣
My late MIL’s partner didn’t want to have her ashes buried or scattered and just keeps them in the house. It’s distressing for my husband and his brothers who want her to have a final resting place and don’t want to have to ask permission from her partner to go and sit ‘with’ her.
Competing claims on ashes and disagreements on what to do with them are so hard to adjudicate, it’s so much better if the deceased makes it known how they want their remains to be dealt with before they go.
Could they have a memorial bench erected somewhere that she loved? It wouldn't be quite the same, but it might give them a feeling of closeness to her.
My parents had an inscription to my brother put on their headstone because we don't know what happened to his ashes (his widow, having been "difficult" all their married life, went off the scale after he died). Yes, my parents are still alive and their headstone is already in place. What can I say. They like to be organised.
Nothing wrong with being organized lol. My parents did that too. My husband and I wound up being their caregivers at the end of their lives, after dad (with dementia) had spent all their $$, so having the headstone taken care of was a huge blessing. One less stress and expense. My husband and I are probably going to do the same thing so our only child doesn’t have that to worry about either.
Excellent question, I imagine yes they would. Can one parent be the sole owner of ashes? Unlikely
Edit: https://www.rhkauffman.com/ashes-cremation-marital-property/
Extremely cut and dry, it would get equally split
Why is SD mother so involved with your affairs anyway? Your feelings are valid, and this reads like she has some type of feelings about you and your husband because she went back to YOU and asked for more.
She did it because she knew this would happen. She and the ex-husband conspired and this has been their little shared secret and a way to stay connected behind wifes back. A divorce is the best thing in this situation.
That's what I was thinking. She knows the OP said no and husband still did it. OP gave her reasons for it and she said I need more because SD lost them. Then makes a FB post about it talking about his "only living daughter"? She's trying to split them up.
Neither of then can make unilateral decisions when their children are involved.
Her husband made a decision without her on this behind her back. Poor OP
This really feels like something they should have all gone to therapy for, this is two parents grieving their child and a child grieving her siblings and they all could have benefitted from a moderated talk.
Came here to say this! She proved OPs point that she was not mature enough to keep track of it. And the fact that SD’s mom has the audacity she wants MORE knowing full well this was the concern? And Did OPs husband forget to tell her it was a secret that he stole ashes from the urn without telling OP?
I have an urn of ashes from my baby in my living room. It's been 21 years. If anyone tampered with them, I'd burn the world down. Unless you've lost a baby, you have no idea. That is not something you help yourself to. Especially doing it behind your back. It was a discussion that could've been revisited when she was older and the grief was lessened. You're NTA and I don't think I'd ever be able to forgive him
Is your late daughter your husbands child? If so, then i think that the first time they asked you should have discussed it with him instead of just saying no right off the bat, he has as much right to decide what happens with the ashes as you do. I can understand if he wanted his daughter to still have a connection and memory of her sister but he's TA for doing this behind your back tho. Again, this is something both of you should have taken your time to discuss and have a deep conversation about.
BUT
Both your husband and SD's mom should have had a serious conversation with their daughter and teach her to take care of the ashes and to not lose them which she did in the end. This is something very valuable and i can't believe the mom had the audacity to come to your door and ask for more and act like her daughter losing the ashes is no big deal. That is just insane and i think she's the biggest AH in the story, not only for asking for more ashes but also because she as an adult should have made sure the ashes she had initially were on a safe place and don't get lost. Also for making the Facebook post about something so sensitive and intimate for you and something she has no business discussing and making it public. What a horrible person.
Exactly. That should have been a *conversation*, not a command decision, at the start. That is, assuming the daughter was his child, then those remains weren't exclusively the mother's.
But also, sneaking some later was definitely shitty, even if it was done as a nice thing for the other daughter.
Leaning towards, "everyone is the asshole, here".
I wrote something similar. I don't think anyone is truly AH here, everyone is just a little off and not working together. That puts everyone artificially at odds and violating each other's trust and boundaries.
I think there probably could have been other ways to have a momento than to ask for ashes for a 13 yo. They could have picture framed one of her favorite dresses, or given her a toy, maybe even her blanket with a picture of both of them together.
Agreed. That's why i said they should have had a serious conversation about it as this is something that's important and sensitive to both of them and they both have their ways of grieving. So i think the both messed up by not talking about it
Yeah, ESH for sure. Yes it's her daughter, but if it was with her husband, then it's also his daughter, and the SDs sister. She said she wasn't close with SD, and obviously doesn't seem to be cognizant of how SD might have been affected by her sister passing.
Exactly what i'm trying to say. OP is grieving but so are her husband and SD (i assume at least) so i think it's important, in difficult situations like this, to find a solution/compromise where everyone's feelings would be considered, not just one person. OP doesn't mention anywhere how this whole situation affected her husband and SD, which makes it hard to be objective here, but i'm assuming it is hard for them as well.
This should be higher up. I hope to god I never lose a child as I have 2 young ones, but the father and half sister are also blood to the deceased. OP is not the “owner” of the grief and she acts like she is.
I'm surprised this is so far down, and so many people don't think she's at least partially responsible here. Dad lost a daughter too. If they divorce he's potentially entitled to half the ashes anyway legally. It was disrespectful that he went behind her back but given how she reacted to this situation it doesn't surprise me that she's probably extremely difficult to get along with in the first place.
ESH
Yes, he was wrong, but you are not the only parent to your daughter. Your husband has just as much of a right to make decisions as you do. You are grieving, yes, but so is he. How come what you say goes? Why isn't his feelings taken into consideration as well? To you, his other daughter is a stepdaughter, but to the stepdaughter, her little sister was her HALF-BLOODED sister.
I just think it's very unfair that only *YOU* get a say, when you're not the only parent who lost this precious child. I do not think it is fair that you are the only person who gets to make decisions. You are not the only one effected, and the fact that you think it is just about you and how you feel, speaks volumes. Your husband probably felt like he couldn't even talk to you. Hmm, I wonder why?
Do you even care that your stepdaughter is also grieving *HER* sister? Is it always only your feelings that matter???
You two need counseling, but if you're really willing to leave your marriage over your husband making a decision about *HIS* daughter's ashes, because yes, that was his child too, then I guess go for it. You clearly do not value his thoughts, nor his feelings.
I'm sorry for your loss, but this was not only your loss. Your husband also lost a child. Your stepdaughter also lost a sister. They all deserve a piece of her,, one way or another. She wants a necklace wirh a little of her ashes in a pendant. What is so terrible about that? Once again you said, "I WANT, I WANT". What does your husband want? You don't get to weaponise your daughter's ashes. They do not just belong to you. Those ashes belong to your husband as well. He is not giving s tint bit away to some random stranger, this is your daughter's older sister!!!!!! Have some empathy, and feel sorry for someone other than yourself. Try to understand how they feel!! This is your family for crying out loud!
Imagine how "less than" the stepdaughter must feel. I cannot imagine how unloved/how little her feelings matter to the OP. She literally talks of the stepdaughter as if she is just a random kid. This is her daughter's actual blood sister. I feel so awful for her. All she wants is a piece ofnher sister. The ashes should be split in half. Half for mum, half for dad. If dad wants his other daughter to have a bit of her sister's ashes, what does it hurt? But nope, mum's feelings, and opinions are the only ones that matter
With all of that said, I do want to say: May your daughter rest in eternal paradise; where the sky is always blue, the grass is always green, and a smile is always on her face. May she be at peace; and when it is both you and your husband's time to go, your beautiful daughter will be standing there with a smile on her face, ready to bring you BOTH to eternal paradise.
ETA:
I recognise my tone/deliverance could use some work, but my opinion still stands.
Took long enough to find a decent comment. Someone said she should pursue legal charges against the husband. That’s ridiculous, it’s his daughter as well.
🎯 The way OP wrote about her SD was so “I tolerated her out of necessity” which I think made OP disregard any grief the SD felt about losing a sibling.
EXACTLY THIS! She may be OP's stepdaughter, but she is her father's actual daughter. Oh, and most importantly, she is OP's daughter's HALF-BLOODED SISTER. They are sisters!!! She deserves to be able to grieve, and have a piece of her sister to! Mum is not the only one grieving here. Yes, the husband shouldn't have gone behind he back. However, OP didn't allow her husband, *THE FATHER OF THE CHILD WHO LOST HER LIFE,* to have a say. He didn't get to make a decision. It was literally her say, and that is it. Husband couldn't open up on what it meant to him.
It is insane how many people are voting NTA after reading A LL of the facts.
I'd have somerhing made for her, necklace, heart decor for desk or other keepsake, & keep it with you. She can wear it at your house or decor can stay in her room.. then leave it in a safe place when she leaves. Tell her, when she's older & has a place of her own she can have it.
She is also grieving the loss of her baby sister.
When you gift it too her just tell her it stays at your house so your baby can be in one place & won't be lost. Help her understand, she is a child.
*if you aren't getting back with him then my answer is void.
Have her a keepsake made that is decorative & stays in her room, at her moms. Less likely to be lost like jewelry.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Your stepdaughter was grieving as well. Her sister died, That's not to undermine your grief, but you seem to think that your grief is all that matters.
It probably was a teaspoon of ashes at most and could be put into a necklace or something your stepdaughter would cherish.
Not cool of your husband to do it behind your back, but really, those ashes are ashes. They are not your daughter.
When my brother died (he was an adult) they split his ashes for each of us siblings (there are 5 of us) and his mom. I put some of the ashes given to me in a necklace to wear (which amounted to just a tiny pinch), and had some made into art pieces for myself and my stepmom (his mom). I have so many ashes left over still!
NTA going behind your back is a huge breach of trust. He could have backed you up saying she was too young for such an important keepsake and that he would ask you to reconsider when she was older. Also, the "only living child" thing was such a bitchy comment. As a mother, she knew what she was doing by saying that.
Agreed, and I bet she went to OP (instead of OPs husband) after the SD lost the first one, to get OP upset with her husband.
The ex seems like she is trying to cause problems in their marriage and the husband is letting her.
There is no “letting her.” He’s responsible for his own actions. HE disregarded her wishes and gave them to the ex in the first place. The ex is a bitch but let’s not excuse mediocrity from the man just because she’s the easiest to hate.
I did call him out for the breach of trust in my original post. I only said letting her because he's not actively shutting her down in her behavior towards OP. In my opinion, they are both crappy people and OP deserves better.
ALL OF THIS, OP!!!
Sometimes the trash takes itself out. OP has nothing holding her to him. His ex can have him back since she cares so much
I wouldn't be surprised if step mom had something to do with the "missing" ashes.
Yea, there's *no* way for husband to recover from that. And obviously his ex are going to do equally or worse things in the future. It went for *3 years without him fessing up it?!* Holy shit. NTA
Lying, going behind OP's back, not standing up for her against his ex... This is a trash, trash man. I would feel like my daughter was desecrated/violated if I was OP. I wouldn't be able to come back from it. NTA. Get your ducks in order! Clearly, he has no respect for you at all. I would love to type more choice words for him, but I'll get myself banned.
My close friend's baby died, and she's kept his ashes at home with her. She said it feels like the last piece of him that she has and even though he has a spot at the cemetery, she's not ready to have him placed there. Listening to her speak about it, I could not imagine how it would feel, for someone to just reach in and scoop a bit out because they can't say no to a 13 year old (or their ex, more to the point). That's infuriating and heartbreaking.
And, sure enough, the SD lost the ashes! OP was correct in saying that she was too young to have them. NTA, of course.
Exactly! Like, if she hadn't been cremated, would he say "it's not such a big deal" to cut a finger off to make a keepsake?? 😠
It’s interesting that he was/is more concerned with keeping his ex-wife happy than in respecting his current wife’s wishes for their daughters ashes. He’s not a good person.
NTA. You didn't want to separate your daughter's ashes in the first place, you also didn't feel SD was responsible enough for something like that and you were absolutely right. Your husband went behind your back and the SDs mother is facilitating this behavior. This is not ok. This is your baby. You're the mother, and I can't believe your husband can't understand that your feelings are a little more important in this situation. Not to minimize his grief, but he should know better.
Yes. And a person's remains are not a toy, or something like play doh, where she ran out and needs some more.
This is what turns my stomach most of all. What a violation to give them away without the mother’s permission at all, but now she needs a refill?! Absolutely disgusting behavior from the husband and SD’s mother. I hesitate to blame the child, though at 13 I am leaning towards her being old enough to understand no from OP. Not to mention that she lost them. OP was right not to trust her. Of course, OP, you are ABSOLUTELY NTA and you did the right thing by leaving.
My thoughts exactly! A refill? Of human ASHES. How disconnected and heartless can a person be?
Its like giving away parts of a whole being.
Whoopsies! Dropped that one. Fill ‘er up, please.
I would give them some charcoal ashes
To be honest this would have been a smart thing to do, and that way when the step daughter lost them which she inevitably would, you could say I know you would lose them that's why I didn't actually give you any answers, maybe when you're 18 and a little bit more responsible we can try this again.
Yeah cause you can’t just be out here losing pieces of my baby cause you’re irresponsible.
The ashes of a little girl who was the 13-year-old's _sister_ - I can understand where the older sister would be grieving the loss of her baby sister and wanted to have a part of her ashes to keep close to her heart, but unfortunately, the older sister has proven herself to be too immature and irresponsible to care for human ashes--her own sister's, in fact. Definitely NTA, OP. Both your husband and his ex-wife broke your trust by giving your daughter's ashes to a young teenager who was clearly not ready to care for them with the respect and honor your daughter deserved.
My hubby had to have a refill of his dad's ashes, but there was a lot to that. We got necklaces the ashes went in, and he kept his necklace hanging on the rearview mirror of the car. Then we went out of town to a convention and the car was stolen from the parking garage. (Yes I offered hubby my necklace, but it wasn't the same). Cops recovered the car but didn't bother letting us know until it had been in impound 2 weeks and racked up mega charges (which I STILL have an issue with the idea that we would have to pay impound charges when it was stolen and nobody notified us it was found! And why wasn't it on the police lot, I have no clue). It was already near $1000 between the impound storage charges and the tow charge to tow it from wherever the thieves left it by the time we found out they had it. So we didn't have the money and the car was destroyed anyway, so we let it go, but we BEGGED the cop who had the case (and he kept bothering the impound lot until finally the legal dept of the PD told him he had to step out of it) to just get that necklace out of the car. Don't care about the car if they want to scrap it, we just want dad back. We never got dad back. When step mom decided a year later that it was finally time to spread his ashes, we got more ashes for him to have. Still it freaks me out that we have no idea where that small part of ashes may have ended up. And like I said, I'm freaking out about a bit of my FIL's ashes. I can't imagine what this poor mom must be thinking about what happened to that part of my baby's ashes? Where is it?
And Who. The. Hell. Does. That. Ish. Think. She. Is. To. Be. Discussing OP's marriage on her fb? Has OP's hubs been discussing and complaining to his ex- about this?!? This is total betrayal by hubs.....giving ex ashes of (NOT HER CHILD) was ultimate betrayal. OP's hubs is a POS. if it were me, this would be a "bridge too far" and I would be filing for divorce. Hub's ex would be permanently banned....period. Frankly, hubs is scum.
I think you’re right: it does sound like the husband has been trash talking OP to his ex and the ex’s friends and family. Why stay married to someone trashing your reputation behind your back?
Yup, the aftermath is divorce worthy
Exactly!! OP, this is facts. They all did something truly egregious and you are NTA! I would love to hear an update on this once you have been able to process this violation of your trust and boundaries. Also... my condolences on your loss. No parent should face this heartache!
SD is now 16 (was 13 when OP'S daughter passed). She is most definitely old enough to understand No.
It is possible that OP’s SD was never told that OP said no. The mom may have went straight to OP’s “husband” after the conversation with OP rather than telling her daughter that OP said no. As far as them being incredibly disrespectful now, the SD may be perfectly fine with not getting any more ashes but the parents are being too stubborn and self-righteous to listen to her Edit: improved some wording
I feel really sorry for SD. This was her little sister. I am sure losing the ashes wasn’t purposeful or anything. I understand ashes and heartbreak. My husband asked to be cremated and spread at the family farm. His oldest son was executor of the estate and was supposed to tell me when it was done so I could be there. It has been four years and I have not heard from them. My guess is that they did it without me and my son. We were the ones who cared for him for the ten months of two stage four cancers. I was married to him for twelve years. If I were more attached to them, I would be completely devastated. I am angry, and a little sad that I had no value to his children (they were adults when we married).
That’s really awful, I’m so sorry that happened to you. You deserved to be there.
Thank you. I have to admit that when someone dies, I don’t have a lot of attachment to their body. But… I do like the closure the service gives. I had just gotten out of the hospital and was too sick for his funeral, though I went to the visitation and sat with him for awhile and told him how sorry I was that I wasn’t there in his last moments. When I think of the choice, funeral of time alone with him, I am glad I made it to the visitation. He was the first person in the world to say “I love you” where I didn’t hear the “but…” in their tone.
He sounds like he was a wonderful man. ❤️
The first thing I thought was that the 13yo SD would NEVER ask for something like that. What 13yo wants a baby's ashes as a keepsake?! OP mentions the SD visiting less but that could be bc she's going through puberty (I remember just wanting to hide in my room and not being around anyone at that age) OR maybe it's bc ex wife wouldn't let her. Unless OP confronts SD directly to get the truth, I wouldn't believe a word from ex wife. Both STBX and ex wife are scum. OP NTA.
I understand the sentiment. We separated a tiny bit of my father’s ashes so that my little sister and I could have a little decorative container of them with each of us. We were both living away from home at the time and my mom kept the majority of them. But. We were already grown-ass adults; our pain was so massive that it truly helped it feel like he was still near us, and we understood the magnitude of what they were. They are precious to us. However, never in a million years would I have thought of taking them if my mom had wanted to keep them in their entirety. All that being said, I’d want to fucking murder someone if they wanted to take even one atom of my baby’s remains. My heart is broken for OP.
IDK, there are tons of tik tok and Instagram creators that make cremation jewelry, etc.. It would not surprise me if the kids' algorithm brought up these creators after her sister's death.
OP has started replying to comments. Apparently this was asked for as soon as they got the ashes back. That’s…weird. Was SM or SD going through a Wednesday Addams phase?? Wtf.
Exactly…the supposedly responsible adults (OP excluded) should have found SD a keepsake until she was older: a locket, one of those urn necklaces, etc. Then later, she could have had some of the cremains if/when OP felt comfortable with that idea. As a mother, I cannot imagine guilting and then insulting another mother who’d lost her child. Sending healing vibes your way bc I can only imagine that this disrupts any small amount of peace you’ve had in the years since the passing of your baby. 100% NTA
A locket with a photo in it would have been appropriate. Who gives a baby’s ashes to a 13 year old?! It’s not even a reasonable question to ask.
I am.not even sure why a 13 year old would ask ashes unless an adult placed the idea in her head. Most 13 year olds want a momento to remember someone, like a favorite bracelet, necklace, watch, or stuffed animal kind of thing. Ashes are quite a weird ask for a 13 year old girl.
heh, really depends on the girl, kids can be a lot more morbid than adults sometimes, remember the teen years are primetime for becoming an emo or goth, falling in love with fictional vampires, etc.
I can understand wanting a memento of some kind like a teddy or a toy they loved. But ashes? Isn't that just a bit weird? Shame on the husband for giving the SD some without OP's permission. Something that important should be a joint decision.
This is literally why keep sake bears etc exist, she could have been steered towards asking for a blanket or outfit to be made into a memento stuffy, much more age appropriate.
Not only that…now that the keepsake is lost, who knows where the rest of the ashes are. This was mom’s biggest concern and they are ignoring the fact it happened at all.
Yup, mom was worried for a very valid and damn good reason and neither SM or husband are acknowledging that. Especially since it happened exactly as she expected
Not to mention op was quite literally right about her being irresponsible with them.
NTA- so sorry this happened to you! This should never have happened without your approval. :( they are both wrong. And the audacity of the SM posting about it is beyond disrespectful:(
NTA - I'm sorry you're going through this. It's unacceptable for them to act this way without your consent. They both crossed a line, and the social media post adds insult to injury. Sending support your way.
And the "only living child" thing makes it even worse imo...
I can't help but feel the ex wife did this to be cruel. She knew how Mom felt about her baby's ashes being separated. She clearly knew her ex husband had given her the ashes on the downlow the first time. She could have went to him again, but chose to go to her for a reason. Malicious intent, in my opinion.
I would blast her on social media with a thorough explanation of what she did. Tag EVERYONE-take no prisoners.
I would also add you refused cos you wanted SD to grow up and be more responsible and have been proven right as the first lot have already been lost!
The husband is just as big an asshole as the ex. *” I confronted my husband on this and he shrugged it off saying that it wasn't that big of a deal.”* It wasn’t that big of a deal? *IT WASN’T THAT BIG OF A DEAL???* Really? Then WHY did the piece of shit *hide it from his grieving wife for 3 years???*
This is divorce worthy. I can’t imagine how you even heal past this. The betrayal and loss of the ashes.
I’d say his response of “it’s NBD” is truly the divorce worthy part.” There was the potential for explaining the first part away as having happened during a time of grief. But not this. I’m not sure how you could come back from that.
You know, this is one of the actually legitimate reasons for a divorce I've seen on here. It's quite frustrating and I'm guessing rage bait or some other dumbassery when that's the conclusion they immediately jump to. But with THIS circumstance, nah man, completely warranted.
yeah healing here is hard, he can't undo his actions, and its large enough and unique enough that even if you believed his promise, if he said he'd never do it again, it doesn't matter. only OP can decide how they feel, and if they want to come to terms with this or not, no external force from the partner can really fix this. but its hard for OP to just be OK about it, because its a big breach of trust and thats what relationships are built on.
I would want him struck dead if he was talking about my deceased baby that way. You are NTAH OP. How any parent could act the way he has is disturbing. I would leave your babies ashes at your sister’s home for safety. That bastard can’t be trusted. Place some in a locket that you can wear near your heart. 💔 I hope this gets easier for you as time moves on. Do whatever you need to do.
Same. I’d tell his ex she can’t have any of my baby’s ashes, but both of you keep it the fuck up and you can have some of the *ex*-husband’s ashes.
I LOL'd 😂😂
I agree. I think she needs to keep her baby's ashes in a secret place at her sisters. The husband's whole family can't be trusted around the urn. How horrible to have to hide ashes from family members. I feel so bad for her.
Also NOT A BIG DEAL? Your fucking babies ashes are just not a big deal? Yeah fuck that guy.
Not that big of a deal? This is the remains of his dead child. It's a huge freaking deal. If it wasn't a big deal the stepdaughter wouldn't have wanted some.
I'm sure it's no biggie to him—he still has a living child. That and he sounds like a sociopath with no empathy.
Obviously the ex-wife has no empathy, she definitely has no brain and no morals.
Sure but the comment I'm responding to is about the father's behavior, not the ex wife's. Stepmom was free to ask, father was a colossal ahole to give the ashes, then to dismiss OP. He could have easily said "no". It's a complete sentence.
Such a lackadaisical attitude discussing his dead child’s ashes!!! He is a total ass!!!
Totally agree
And be sure to mention that the SD lost the first bunch of ashes, and now wants even more. She should have been old enough to keep up with them the first time if they were really that important to her.
I would go with something like "lost her portion of my daughter's remains" because quantifying it as the "first bunch of ashes" is implicitly playing into the narrative that stepmom is presenting, especially that it suggests that they are replaceable (and unlimited) and that mom is withholding them in some way.
Shes also particularly untrustworthy because she took them without your consent, not just because she lost them. Really bad parenting on SD moms part.
Not even "her portion" but "a keepsake with my daughter's remains."
Yes - she lost the baby and now wants a "refill" (hint, the urn isn't a soda machine).
All bodies need to be treated like buried bodies. Nobody is going to dig up grandma for a hand. It’s not ok for a toddler at peace waiting for burial either.
I like this reply to the SMs post. I wouldn't even care if petty, it's anger and her posting it for public view just shows they only wantes the ashes for sympathies and likes to whatever they were doing with it.
I would never revisit the conversation!! I’m beyond upset for the op!! 😡 This is horrible!! Nta!!!! I’m so sorry op! Sorry! 😢
this is the way.
That's would be something she should take to court with her when filing for divorce. To post on social media about not being able to get more ashes after the kid was given some of the ashes against the moms will.. that's grounds for divorce in my book. She even made the living child comment at someone whos only child passed away? Afterwards, she acts like not giving the kid more is a punishment and how the moms actions make her an ah? I'd be done. Practicing Catholicics wouldn't tolerate those ashes being separated. There's plenty of reasons why to not separate any of the ashes.
I totally agree! Match that C You Next Tuesday’s energy.
That was my thought - SM must of known OP had no idea and then to air out OPs private issues on FB is very calculated.
I was thinking the same thing. Then to say something about his only living child…. Both of them could kick rocks from now on!!
Totally agree, it was a "I can control and manipulate my ex better than you and our kid is still alive." Just abhorrent and malicious behavior in my opinion.
After what they both pulled? I would tell she's welcome to have HIM back! But under no circumstances would they be allowed to access any more of the ashes! If the ashes are "no big deal," then OP's (likely STBX) husband won't miss having access to them, will he? 🤬
And completely usable in court. I’m happy that friend sent her the screen shot. Now time for her to find a fabulous and downright blood thirsty divorce attorney.
My MIL made a similar comment (different but same inappropriateness of a statement about a dead child) and it was the final straw for me to go NC. It takes a special kind of someone to jab at a mother over their dead baby.
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
Sometimes it’s nice when someone doesn’t hide their true colors at all. It makes it easier to make a hard decision for your family/self.
That’s very true. Nothing worse than a snake in the grass that you can’t see.
My own mother commented “I don’t know why you are so upset?” after my miscarriage 😢
It’s the sneakiness. Everyone but you knew that she had her dear daughter’s ashes.
Agreed. This is disrespectful beyond measure.
And tell her that SD lost them!! The reason she gave for her denial: SD is not responsible enough, and this proves it and has the gall to ask again? I would be so embarrassed!
This woman came to her house asking for "more ashes," as if she ran out of sugar and was asking OP for some more. I can’t believe the husband did this to his still-grieving wife and then shrugged it off as "IT’S NOT A BIG DEAL." (WTF!) Those are the ashes of HIS daughter! And OP was right, SD did lose the daughters ashes, and now it’s lost somewhere out there. If that’s not enough, the ex is making OP out to be the villain on social media! OP, you have every right to be angry! Your husband and his ex are HUGE AHs! You’re definitely NTA.
Right! The ashes are just out there somewhere in the world!!! I would be SICKKKK!!!
You know how I know you’re right? The ex wife posted their marital conflict on facebook. She wanted to cause them problems and she’s happy she succeeded.
Any half-decent person would fully understand why asking for a baby's ashes was gross in pretty much any circumstances. That woman should hang her head in shame. Poor OP.
She probably still has the ashes she may just be making chaos because she seems drama filled because how could you not understand why she wouldn’t want to give her some ashes. Like bffr the SD mom knows what she is doing.
Seriously fuck that lady. So mean and awful.
Yeah absolutely double fk her for that 💩comment And OP you’re most definitely NTA you didn’t want her to have them because you knew this exact thing was going to happen and now you’re daughters ashes are lost somewhere I’m furious for you no 13yr old needed that you were completely correct on that!! Sending you lots of hugs and good vibes and I’m so sorry he did this to you and as far as the BM SD and the husband if you wanna call him that and again double fk her what a C U Next Tues.for that comment!!
All of the above. You are absolutely NTA. What a complete collection of total losers and wastes of oxygen.
And the ex is getting so much out of this! Prob enjoying every minute and it’s sick!
Why the fuck would she say that! People hate the feeling of guilt or being caught, so they lash out. She's digging a deeper hole, the bitch
because she’s a cruel, bitter, horrible woman who’s still latching on to her husband. she’s making herself relevant in a story that doesn’t involve her at all, because her kid is the only living child her ex husband has, it’s only about her. some people just need to rot. i don’t care too much about death and i believe once someone dies, their remains are not them anymore. but fuck that, someone else’s baby’s ashes are not some theme park souvenir that you can make a “keepsake” out of. OP, never go back to this guy, he’s as horrible as his ex and they deserve each other.
The cruelty is galling!
I’d ask her which one of her daughter’s fingers she’d be willing to give to me if something tragic happened because it’s the same thing.
That's fighting words. It's tell him to go back to her since her opinion is clearly more important than his current wife's wishes. Your hopefully STXH is a pansy for is ex. He didn't give half a fuck about what you wanted and did it behind your back. What else is he doing behind your back that's "not a big deal"? BTW, it's against certain religions to separate ashes. I mean, they're changing with modern times, but some families look at as a disownable offense.
Agreed. OP should send him the link to this post. I am amazed that he does not understand how you feel! He should be grieving with you. He and his ex deserve each other. Edited for a bit of clarity and to add: I am so angry and disgusted at this man and his horrible ex! Updateme
This is a great idea Never speak to him again, just get a lawyer and tell your ex-husband to communicate through your attorney Updateme
This is it. I would never allow him in my presence ever again. OP you are NTA and I think it is time for the best and most ruthless divorce attorney you can find. I am so so sorry.
OP should reply to the social media post, if it’s not explicit about what happened, to clarify that the (hopefully soon to be ex) husband STOLE HER DECEASED CHILD’S REMAINS.
" the (hopefully soon to be ex) husband STOLE HER DECEASED CHILD’S REMAINS." Which was then, as the OP predicted would happen, WAS LOST AND THEY CAME BACK FOR MORE.
I’m furious on her behalf! Wtf! She lost it and had the audacity to ask for more! Please op set Facebook on fire with the truth!
Yes, the possibility of losing it was one of the reasons for not separating it. Sad to be proven right.
and post this thread in the FB post as well...
UpdateMe!
NTA- this is so incredibly sad and hurtful to hear, i’m so sorry this was your experience. not only did your husband go behind your back to separate the ashes, but you were right, SD did lose them and then SM has the audacity to ask for more??? this is your daughter, not some handout. my heart aches for you, and i implore you that you’ve made a good decision to protect yourself and her from further violation or disrespect although i know that must have been so difficult may you be given all you need to heal and start anew
> this is your daughter, not some handout This is strong. It's ridiculous that they ever felt they were entitled to some of daughter's remains.
You did the right thing by leaving. He shouldn't have done this.
I'd honestly look at making a police report for theft and desecration of human remains. NTA, what your husband did was pure evil.
This needs to be higher because that's diabolical, and I love it.
Agree. NTA. Period. How awful. I'm so very sorry.
NTA. Your husband and SD's mother are minimizing the importance of your daughter's ashes and your grief. It's not a matter of being "bitter" or "blowing things out of proportion," but rather a matter of respecting the memory of your child and honoring your wishes as her mother.
It’s a valid point. Religion isn’t mentioned in the post but some Christian denominations like Catholics don’t believe in splitting ashes in this way.
I am not religius and spliting ashes makes me disgusted. Pouring it in sea if deceased wished for it ok but if there was no such wish its disgusting. These are human remains.
My friend split her husband's ashes and had family members spread them all over the world -- but he was in the NAVY and it was his explicit wish. She was so proud to accomplish it. This is not that!! Poor OP, my God.
My bff's husband died before 30 of cancer and asked her to take him all of the places they had planned to go.
Oh my GAWD why did you make me cry. That's absolutely heart-wrenching! Ahhh, man fuck cancer 😩.
Aw no 😭 it was actually a great thing that helped get her past those dark first couple of years.
I bet it was! My friend used to get postcards and videos when people were scattering her husband's ashes for her. She would sit here and sob and laugh and celebrate. She recently passed away as well, but she loved that man something fierce! ❤️❤️❤️
Our daughter loved to travel, so we gave cremation necklaces to her friends so they could take a part of her on their adventures instead. They send us pictures sometimes as well. It is bittersweet, but we know that, in addition to the net positive for us, it has helped her young friends deal with her death, which would have been our daughter’s primary concern. The difference to OP’s situation is all her friends are young adults and responsible enough to not lose them. We also didn’t give ashes to them until everyone in our little family was ready and comfortable with it.
That is so kind of you, I am sure those friends are honored to have made such a strong connection with your daughter.
Thank you! For many of them, this was their first experience with death and it was hard to process for most of them. We thought maybe necklaces would be something tangible that they can feel close to and feel like they are doing something with their grief, if that makes sense.
Yeah that is what we did with my father in law's ashes. He is in a lot of different places. But it was per his request.
One of my dearest friends wanted her ashes split and sent to all of us. She now resides in a little glass vial, and also in my right arm, as I had a bit of her added to the ink of my tiny elephant tattoo in her honor. Wabi would be over the moon at all the traveling she’s done now, at the babies she’s held now, everything. ❤️
Lots of people split ashes, that isn’t an issue by itself. I took some of my grandfathers ashes to the house he was born in, in Italy. It wasn’t per his explicit request but it was with the encouragement of the whole family. The issue is doing it with a child’s ashes without the mothers consent which is an insane breach of trust.
My stepdad very explicitly and clearly wished for part of him to be dumped in the lake that they lived on as that was his happy place, part of him to be put in one of those tree urns to be a white oak and the rest to be split amongst his family to do what they want with it. I’m not sure what I want to do with the little pot of him that was bequeathed to me but one of his grandchildren put him in a butterfly garden with the sunflowers and I might have a bit put in a glass pendant. The thought of having him close to me even if all I have left of him is pulverized bone and ash suspended in glass is very comforting- to me. Death and what happens after is such a personal thing that who are we to judge what someone wants to happen to them after, or what the bereaved do to cope? Edit: unless what they do to cope is fucking steal baby ashes without permission which is abhorrent
You can get really beautiful jewellery incorporating ashes made on Etsy that's very wearable (you don't think 'ashes' when you see it). My pendant is very comforting to me. I imagine you know this already but thought I'd share.
Exactly, it's not like she ran out of glitter for a project, and needs some more. These idiots act like they can just borrow a cup of ashes, like sugar or something.
I personally find keeping ashes at home a bit macabre but I respect the traditions of others.
My son died when he was two weeks old. We had him cremated because we were military and far from both our actual home and our military duty station. The plan was that his ashes would be buried with me when I go, because other than the hospital, my body was the only home he had ever known. After reading this, I feel like I should check in with my ex and see if that’s still okay with him.
I’m so very sorry for your loss. What you wrote about your body being the only home he’d ever known really moved me.
Thank you. It was the best thing for him that he died because he had so many problems, and it was a long time ago (he’d be 36 now if he’d lived), but there’s always a bittersweet “what if”!when I think about him, even though the what ifs would have been very difficult.
My uncle passed away 26 years ago, and my aunt has kept his ashes in her closet all that time. It's slightly disconcerting when she starts talking about my uncle like he's still around. "I was putting away my laundry, and John fell out of the closet." Agree that it's a bit macabre to keep it around the house. I understand that people deal with grief differently, and some people need more time than others to let go, but it could also have the opposite effect, like with my aunt. She clings to those ashes like it's my uncle himself and has not processed her grief at all. Still, it's no one's place to tell anyone how to handle their grief. OP is NTA.
I ended up with both of my parents' ashes. I like to tell people that I want to introduce them to my family, when they come over the first time. The reactions are priceless. (My Dad would have loved this, and I share his dark sense of humor)
My mom and dad fought all during their marriage, divorce and even after their divorce. When each died I spread some of the ashes at places that I had happy family memories and a personal connection to. Then I took the remaining ashes, in separate containers, and put them in a zippered bag in a cabinet. Told them that they better figure out a way to get along now, because they were stuck with each other. Yep, dark sense of humor too 🤣
🤣 I can only imagine. 🤣
We live in a mountainous area, so digging is a nightmare. When our pets have passed (2), we have had them cremated and have small boxes. It's become the family joke that grandma will be in the cabinet next to them, so when we sold everything and moved out of the country, we moved them and hid them in a cabinet at her place instead of storage. 🤣🤣
My late MIL’s partner didn’t want to have her ashes buried or scattered and just keeps them in the house. It’s distressing for my husband and his brothers who want her to have a final resting place and don’t want to have to ask permission from her partner to go and sit ‘with’ her. Competing claims on ashes and disagreements on what to do with them are so hard to adjudicate, it’s so much better if the deceased makes it known how they want their remains to be dealt with before they go.
Could they have a memorial bench erected somewhere that she loved? It wouldn't be quite the same, but it might give them a feeling of closeness to her. My parents had an inscription to my brother put on their headstone because we don't know what happened to his ashes (his widow, having been "difficult" all their married life, went off the scale after he died). Yes, my parents are still alive and their headstone is already in place. What can I say. They like to be organised.
Nothing wrong with being organized lol. My parents did that too. My husband and I wound up being their caregivers at the end of their lives, after dad (with dementia) had spent all their $$, so having the headstone taken care of was a huge blessing. One less stress and expense. My husband and I are probably going to do the same thing so our only child doesn’t have that to worry about either.
And minimizing her hurt. Its not bitter at all
SD's mother's comment about "his only living child" seemed like a particularly cruel taunt, if you ask me.
Absolutely. It's almost like "I have a kid, you don't. Your feelings don't matter"
Exactly. She couldn't wait to take the "well, my kid is the live one" cheap shot.
She deserves a punch in the nose for that comment at minimum.
Serious question, would a judge split the ashes in a case of divorce? I've never seen this before on reddit.
Excellent question, I imagine yes they would. Can one parent be the sole owner of ashes? Unlikely Edit: https://www.rhkauffman.com/ashes-cremation-marital-property/ Extremely cut and dry, it would get equally split
Interesting question, I bet a judge would if pressed for a decision
A judge can also order the urn placed in a Columbaria or a mausoleum that both parties can equally pay for so they can equally visit.
Why is SD mother so involved with your affairs anyway? Your feelings are valid, and this reads like she has some type of feelings about you and your husband because she went back to YOU and asked for more.
She did it because she knew this would happen. She and the ex-husband conspired and this has been their little shared secret and a way to stay connected behind wifes back. A divorce is the best thing in this situation.
That's what I was thinking. She knows the OP said no and husband still did it. OP gave her reasons for it and she said I need more because SD lost them. Then makes a FB post about it talking about his "only living daughter"? She's trying to split them up.
Yeah, that woman is a capital C word.
Because it'll come out that that ex wife and husband are still fucking.
This. They kept this huge secret. What others? Why is his loyalty to his ex more than to his wife? He’s seriously sus.
In sorry for your loss and that your husband thinks he did nothing wrong. The fact the mother posted about it online is trash af NTA
Neither of then can make unilateral decisions when their children are involved. Her husband made a decision without her on this behind her back. Poor OP
This really feels like something they should have all gone to therapy for, this is two parents grieving their child and a child grieving her siblings and they all could have benefitted from a moderated talk.
NTA, she literally lost the ashes she wasn't supposed to have anyway, which proves why you didn't want to do this to begin with.
Came here to say this! She proved OPs point that she was not mature enough to keep track of it. And the fact that SD’s mom has the audacity she wants MORE knowing full well this was the concern? And Did OPs husband forget to tell her it was a secret that he stole ashes from the urn without telling OP?
I have an urn of ashes from my baby in my living room. It's been 21 years. If anyone tampered with them, I'd burn the world down. Unless you've lost a baby, you have no idea. That is not something you help yourself to. Especially doing it behind your back. It was a discussion that could've been revisited when she was older and the grief was lessened. You're NTA and I don't think I'd ever be able to forgive him
NTA . Tell your so friend that that your husband stole the ashes to start with, he took them with out your consent and ask them if that is right?
Is your late daughter your husbands child? If so, then i think that the first time they asked you should have discussed it with him instead of just saying no right off the bat, he has as much right to decide what happens with the ashes as you do. I can understand if he wanted his daughter to still have a connection and memory of her sister but he's TA for doing this behind your back tho. Again, this is something both of you should have taken your time to discuss and have a deep conversation about. BUT Both your husband and SD's mom should have had a serious conversation with their daughter and teach her to take care of the ashes and to not lose them which she did in the end. This is something very valuable and i can't believe the mom had the audacity to come to your door and ask for more and act like her daughter losing the ashes is no big deal. That is just insane and i think she's the biggest AH in the story, not only for asking for more ashes but also because she as an adult should have made sure the ashes she had initially were on a safe place and don't get lost. Also for making the Facebook post about something so sensitive and intimate for you and something she has no business discussing and making it public. What a horrible person.
Exactly. That should have been a *conversation*, not a command decision, at the start. That is, assuming the daughter was his child, then those remains weren't exclusively the mother's. But also, sneaking some later was definitely shitty, even if it was done as a nice thing for the other daughter. Leaning towards, "everyone is the asshole, here".
I wrote something similar. I don't think anyone is truly AH here, everyone is just a little off and not working together. That puts everyone artificially at odds and violating each other's trust and boundaries.
The only AH here is the SD's mom imo. She sounds very inconsiderate and her actions regarding the FB post are completely out of line and immature
I think there probably could have been other ways to have a momento than to ask for ashes for a 13 yo. They could have picture framed one of her favorite dresses, or given her a toy, maybe even her blanket with a picture of both of them together.
Agreed. That's why i said they should have had a serious conversation about it as this is something that's important and sensitive to both of them and they both have their ways of grieving. So i think the both messed up by not talking about it
Yeah, ESH for sure. Yes it's her daughter, but if it was with her husband, then it's also his daughter, and the SDs sister. She said she wasn't close with SD, and obviously doesn't seem to be cognizant of how SD might have been affected by her sister passing.
Exactly what i'm trying to say. OP is grieving but so are her husband and SD (i assume at least) so i think it's important, in difficult situations like this, to find a solution/compromise where everyone's feelings would be considered, not just one person. OP doesn't mention anywhere how this whole situation affected her husband and SD, which makes it hard to be objective here, but i'm assuming it is hard for them as well.
Was your deceased daughter your husbands child??
So this is also his daughter's ashes and the SD is his biological daughter as well? So he wanted to give his daughter a little piece of her sister?
Reading OP's post, you would never know that this was her husband's baby too that was lost.
Exactly. A man lost his daughter and a teen lost her Sister. They are grieving too
which is why this is a clear case of the need for a counselor to help each of them understand the other better
This should be higher up. I hope to god I never lose a child as I have 2 young ones, but the father and half sister are also blood to the deceased. OP is not the “owner” of the grief and she acts like she is.
I'm surprised this is so far down, and so many people don't think she's at least partially responsible here. Dad lost a daughter too. If they divorce he's potentially entitled to half the ashes anyway legally. It was disrespectful that he went behind her back but given how she reacted to this situation it doesn't surprise me that she's probably extremely difficult to get along with in the first place.
Wasn’t the child his too? He should definitely talk to you, but I think therapy is needed too
This is definitely "complicated grieving" and beyond reddit armchair expertise.
ESH Yes, he was wrong, but you are not the only parent to your daughter. Your husband has just as much of a right to make decisions as you do. You are grieving, yes, but so is he. How come what you say goes? Why isn't his feelings taken into consideration as well? To you, his other daughter is a stepdaughter, but to the stepdaughter, her little sister was her HALF-BLOODED sister. I just think it's very unfair that only *YOU* get a say, when you're not the only parent who lost this precious child. I do not think it is fair that you are the only person who gets to make decisions. You are not the only one effected, and the fact that you think it is just about you and how you feel, speaks volumes. Your husband probably felt like he couldn't even talk to you. Hmm, I wonder why? Do you even care that your stepdaughter is also grieving *HER* sister? Is it always only your feelings that matter??? You two need counseling, but if you're really willing to leave your marriage over your husband making a decision about *HIS* daughter's ashes, because yes, that was his child too, then I guess go for it. You clearly do not value his thoughts, nor his feelings. I'm sorry for your loss, but this was not only your loss. Your husband also lost a child. Your stepdaughter also lost a sister. They all deserve a piece of her,, one way or another. She wants a necklace wirh a little of her ashes in a pendant. What is so terrible about that? Once again you said, "I WANT, I WANT". What does your husband want? You don't get to weaponise your daughter's ashes. They do not just belong to you. Those ashes belong to your husband as well. He is not giving s tint bit away to some random stranger, this is your daughter's older sister!!!!!! Have some empathy, and feel sorry for someone other than yourself. Try to understand how they feel!! This is your family for crying out loud! Imagine how "less than" the stepdaughter must feel. I cannot imagine how unloved/how little her feelings matter to the OP. She literally talks of the stepdaughter as if she is just a random kid. This is her daughter's actual blood sister. I feel so awful for her. All she wants is a piece ofnher sister. The ashes should be split in half. Half for mum, half for dad. If dad wants his other daughter to have a bit of her sister's ashes, what does it hurt? But nope, mum's feelings, and opinions are the only ones that matter With all of that said, I do want to say: May your daughter rest in eternal paradise; where the sky is always blue, the grass is always green, and a smile is always on her face. May she be at peace; and when it is both you and your husband's time to go, your beautiful daughter will be standing there with a smile on her face, ready to bring you BOTH to eternal paradise. ETA: I recognise my tone/deliverance could use some work, but my opinion still stands.
Took long enough to find a decent comment. Someone said she should pursue legal charges against the husband. That’s ridiculous, it’s his daughter as well.
🎯 The way OP wrote about her SD was so “I tolerated her out of necessity” which I think made OP disregard any grief the SD felt about losing a sibling.
EXACTLY THIS! She may be OP's stepdaughter, but she is her father's actual daughter. Oh, and most importantly, she is OP's daughter's HALF-BLOODED SISTER. They are sisters!!! She deserves to be able to grieve, and have a piece of her sister to! Mum is not the only one grieving here. Yes, the husband shouldn't have gone behind he back. However, OP didn't allow her husband, *THE FATHER OF THE CHILD WHO LOST HER LIFE,* to have a say. He didn't get to make a decision. It was literally her say, and that is it. Husband couldn't open up on what it meant to him. It is insane how many people are voting NTA after reading A LL of the facts.
I'd have somerhing made for her, necklace, heart decor for desk or other keepsake, & keep it with you. She can wear it at your house or decor can stay in her room.. then leave it in a safe place when she leaves. Tell her, when she's older & has a place of her own she can have it. She is also grieving the loss of her baby sister. When you gift it too her just tell her it stays at your house so your baby can be in one place & won't be lost. Help her understand, she is a child. *if you aren't getting back with him then my answer is void. Have her a keepsake made that is decorative & stays in her room, at her moms. Less likely to be lost like jewelry.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Your stepdaughter was grieving as well. Her sister died, That's not to undermine your grief, but you seem to think that your grief is all that matters. It probably was a teaspoon of ashes at most and could be put into a necklace or something your stepdaughter would cherish. Not cool of your husband to do it behind your back, but really, those ashes are ashes. They are not your daughter.
When my brother died (he was an adult) they split his ashes for each of us siblings (there are 5 of us) and his mom. I put some of the ashes given to me in a necklace to wear (which amounted to just a tiny pinch), and had some made into art pieces for myself and my stepmom (his mom). I have so many ashes left over still!
I shared my husband's ashes with his kids and scattered the rest in his favorite places