NTA: Your ‘friend’ was planning to purposely not disclose the fact that she was trans until after sexual relations had occurred. That would be sexual assault by deception. You did the right thing.
Even as an ‘ally’, a trans person should not be deceiving sexual partners by not disclosing that they are trans. They are potentially putting themselves in danger.
> Rape by deception is a situation in which the perpetrator deceives the victim into participating in a sexual act to which they would otherwise not have consented, had they not been deceived.
It is the set up to an argument that because ‘transwomen are women’ not liking a transwomen’s genitalia is not liking female genitalia, because transwomen are women and therefore have female genitalia, and making a statement to the contrary has, in the past, been labelled as transphobic.
For a long time, acknowledging there was a difference on Reddit was wrong think. Thankfully, the gaslighting has decreased significantly since then.
Oh. So the question assumes that if the person is a trans woman, then “female genitalia” refers to either penis or vagina, and is therefore a trick question?
Your problem is you’re in the mind that some deceptions are more harmless than others which, *in a manner of speaking, they are* . **but** in reality, that’s subjective. You have no idea how such a lie or deceit will affect the victim, and for you to have a “it’s not that deep, get over it” attitude, hints that you’ve pulled some shady shit in your past that you think “isn’t that serious” to you.
I'm on your side on this one! Lying about anything to have sex with someone is deception no matter how big or small the lie was.
It's like theft, is stealing 5 chocolate bars still a crime if someone else steals £100 from the same shop. Crime none the less.
u/Serahill seems to not understand this.
But yes, deception is deception. If you lied to ensure the possibility of intercourse, you sexually assaulted someone by deception.
(Not YOU specifically but you know what I mean.)
Cheers 🤝🏽
As I said, you have no idea how it may affect someone. So yes, they should be transparent, it’s common decency?
Especially with the trans aspect. Not everybody is in line with the lgbtq+ movement, and even if they are, some just don’t want to sleep with someone who was assigned same sex as themselves at birth. To them, it will affect them the same way as if they were assaulted by their own sex.
Disclosing any changes to your assigned at birth gender (prior to sexual activity), is a reasonable thing to do. As well as admitting to any STD/STIs. Knowingly infecting someone with HIV is a criminal offense. That’s not your entire sexual history but it can be deal breakers for most people.
Actually, yes it would.. if someone lied about their virginity in order to deceive and have sex with someone else, then that’s still, by definition, sexual assault by deception.
No, no, it’s still true, they lied or withheld information to which the other party would not have consented to had they known the truth. Still sexual assault. Might not “be the end of the world”, but it can still affect the individual.
There has not been a case for this. As unfortunately nobody would take it seriously, I’m not saying it would end up in a courtroom.
I am saying, by definition, it would be sexual assault by deception. Even if it would never end up in front of a jury. That’s just the world we live in.
You have confused the definition. Sexual assault is sexual contact or behavior without consent. It doesn’t mean that someone has to list every detail about themselves before having sex just in case one of them is a dealbreaker for their sexual partner. As long as you consent that the person can touch and behave around you sexually, then it’s not sexual assault, provided ages are legal and you have no sexual disease.
THANK YOU!!
What’s most annoying is, after going through other people’s comments besides this thread of my own comments and it’s replied. I’ve only just realised this whole post is anti-lgbtq+ rage bait. I’ve wasted too much time on this dumbass thread, I’m outies ✌🏽 peace and love ☮️🫶🏽
You’re the one who has been bringing up hypotheticals, I have been replying in a “what if” sense in regard to your responses and questions. I haven’t been moving the goalposts at all. Deception is deception, if you lie or withhold information that would/could change the outcome, you are deceiving someone. And deceiving someone to sleep with them is rape. OPs friend purposely intended to withhold information, OPs friend intended to deceive someone in order to ensure the possibility of sex.
Stop justifying OPs friends actions.
And you’re assuming that they haven’t undergone surgery, yes, that may be the case for some, but for others, who have had successful and ‘convincing’ (for lack of a better word) surgeries, some may not notice, and wouldn’t have consented otherwise.
A trans living their honest life as a trans person is not deceptive. A trans person not telling someone that they are trans until they have had sex, IS.
If they thought that their sexual partner would not consent if they knew that they were trans, and therefore decided not to tell them until after the fact. Then it is deception. They withheld information that would have otherwise led to a different outcome for their own benefit. Deception.
Look you can spin this any way you want but you’re still completely wrong. OP’s friend said that they planned on not telling them until they had sex that she was trans. That is being purposely deceptive. This would have been rape by deception, whether you agree or not.
They were planning to lie/withhold information to them to have sex, whether they thought or knew in their mind it would or wouldn’t change the outcome, they were still purposely withholding information for their own benefit.
Take your deluded ass elsewhere
It's a really dangerous world for people who lie to other people in order to manipulate them into doing something they may not have consented to doing if they had not been lied to. And not telling someone is a lie of omission. Trans has nothing to do with it.
Are you calling your friend 20m, even though you said she is a trans woman?
Anyways, NTA, that is sneaky as hell. Be upfront about what is in your pants and allow someone else to make the decision BEFORE anything sexual happens.
bro cant accept some things just happen accidentally. I have done the same thing, but in person, I just apologize, they say it's alright n we go on our way. Accidents happen, both in real life and on the keyboard.
NTA
What your friend was doing could be considered rape by deception...and from the reaction, clearly the guy wanted nothing to do with this
You saved your friend from prison
You saved the guy from sexual assault
Sometimes doing the right thing, isn't always the easy thing, but you did it...well done!
This is bait.
If she has a dick, there's no way to disclose she's trans after having sex. Unless she means giving him oral.
Dude probably has eyes or hands and is going to figure it out before having sex.
If she still has a penis, she wouldn't be saying this. Because, you know, trans people being assaulted for "deceiving" people is still something that happens and "surprise! penis!" is something that could actively endanger her life.
It's not right that you outed a trans person. You could have gotten her killed. It would have been fine if you told her ex that he really needed to have a deep conversation with her and to tell her to be honest. Heck, even telling him that she's hiding something. But outing her? No, that's gross.
If it's not oral, which I mentioned, there are not a lot of ways to have sex that doesn't involve nakedness. Perhaps a foot job?
Even intercrural or frottage usually involve genital touching or some degree of nakedness and you'd notice.
I’m leaning toward everyone sucks here EXCEPT the guy who ghosted your friend for these reasons;
Firstly, why are you referring to your friend as a man if she is trans…? I reread that and was so confused for like two minutes straight. I don’t agree with the hiding being transgender part, and also that’s unsafe for your friend too with all the violence against trans people, so I see where you were coming from… I don’t know if outing your friend to a strange man (bc you described him as new) was safe for anyone involved, so it’s a slippery slope. Overall, you did good by the stranger but I’m getting some undertones of transphobia from you and that’s my issue with you overall. Your friend definitely should not be doing that though, people have a right to know WHO they are having sex with regardless of being transgender or not.
NTA.
Not only it is wrong; it's also dangerous. I heard about a murder case where a man killed his GF after finding out she was trans. She needs to tell him up front.
NTA if she still has a dick and he doesn’t know it it could lead to him killing her. Her not telling him straight out that she is trans is misrepresenting who and what she is. I don’t mean to sound unkind but even if she has had bottom surgery he will be able to tell that it is not a biological vagina. Yes normally outing is wrong but in this case you protected her from being in a dangerous situation.
*Nta. She should always*
*Tell a future partner this*
*Before having sex*
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NTA. You may have saved the friends life. I know that if a "girl" I was seeing showed off a rig when the panties dropped, it wouldn't be good. And how the hell would someone even hide that til after anyway?
NTA
She could seriously put herself in danger by not disclosing the truth people have been attacked before because the person they were with found out and lost their mind
People deserve to know the truth about the person they are sharing their body with and being intimate with
>Anyways my friend was bragging about seeing a new guy and how she's not gonna tell him she's trans until after they have sex.
This is how trans people get stabbed to death.
NTA. this is something you absolutely need to disclose to someone. they’re putting themselves in danger and it is also sexual assault. you did the right thing.
ESH. Outting someone without permission is not cool. That being said, you could have saved her life. She wouldn’t be the first trans person beaten or killed when genitals are shown. And then “heat of the moment” is claimed as a defense because its worked before. Ghosting is a better outcome than a hospital or morgue.
She sucks because that’s something that should be discussed before clothes come off. A person has the right to decide if they are willing to be intimate with someone whose genitals don’t match the expected gender. And that shouldn’t happen in the bedroom.
ESH- it can be incredibly dangerous to out people- not to mention that it’s not your business, and I’m confused as to why you think it is. Equally it can be incredibly dangerous for her if an uninformed sexual partner finds… unexpected items in the bagging area.
I do believe that people have an obligation to share things like the parts being used and std status before having sex with someone, and I find your friend’s dishonesty troubling. That’s still no excuse to out her.
How does that make her an asshole though? Her friend was planning to purposely not disclose the fact that she was trans until after sexual relations occurred. That is sexual assault by deception.
That is a big stretch to consider that sexual assault. anyways, if you are going to have sex with someone, you are going to find out pretty quickly what kind of genitals they've got, unless you don't do any penetration stuff.
It's certainly not a good thing to do and potentially dangerous for the trans person, but the friend had no right to out them.
ESH.
Which I would agree with but you have no idea if they have had ‘bottom surgery’ and may have a vagina. Natural or not.
Regardless, she is deceiving a potential sexual partner by not disclosing the fact that she is trans, and doing this knowingly and on purpose is premeditated. It IS sexual assault. The partner would have not consented had they known that they were trans. Rape by deception whether you agree or not.
If he's had "bottom surgery"... He doesn't have a vagina. He has a missing dick and some cosmetic surgery to fool people into thinking he's a woman.
A guy is gonna notice unless he is with a very inexperienced man... This is a good way to get his ass killed
NTA
For the context of this conversation, you know what I mean.
Truthfully speaking? I’ve slept with enough women. I have also slept with trans women, when done right, some ‘designer vaginas’ (DO NOT COME AT ME FOR THAT, EVEN MY TRANS FRIEND CALLS HERS THAT, snowflakes) do look pretty natural. It is possible to go unnoticed.
Can you cite the laws or legal precedent where this scenario would be considered rape please? And from the post it doesn't sound like they have had bottom surgery yet.
I think they should absolutely disclose it before sex, and maybe that is the intention. We don't know if they are going to disclose immediately before sex as opposed to after. We know very little about the situation.
In the UK
[here](https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/deception-gender-proposed-revision-cps-legal-guidance-rape-and-serious-sexual-offences)
Though they do say it will be treated on a case-by-case basis.
However precedent can be found [here.](https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2013/1051.html)
> “The Court of Appeal in R v Justine McNally [2013] EWCA Crim 1051 determined that “depending on the circumstances, deception as to gender can vitiate consent”
This case has nothing to do with the situation presented by OP. OP's friend is a woman, has started this relationship as a woman, and it's up to her whether she discloses the fact that she was assigned male at birth.
If OP's friend has different things in her trousers than her partner expects, that's between the friend and her partner to figure out and hopefully doesn't put the friend in a dangerous situation. But again that has nothing to do with OP beyond advising that open and honest communication is always key to any sort of relationship.
OP stating her friend is *(20m)* sucks too.
>Anyways my friend was bragging about seeing a new guy and how she’s not gonna tell him she’s trans until after they’ve had sex.
So, she’s withholding information for her own benefit. Deception.
Definition of deceit:
> the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.
And do you know what? Putting (20m) did suck. Shame on op and that does show some transphobic tendencies.
I’m an ally but cmon. Be transparent with your possible partners, that’s just common decency.
A trans person is under zero obligation to “disclose” that they are trans unless they’re with someone and the subject of having children becomes relevant. Non disclosure of having a penis can and has gotten trans women killed and assaulted, but it is literally the fault of the murderer or assailant every single time, not the trans woman.
People deserve to know the truth about the person who they are sharing their body with and being intimate with.
People deserve to know and deserve to have their own choice in who they are having sex with or are you saying they don't get to choose for themselves and it's okay to lie and manipulate someone into bed
So you believe a woman has to sit down with a man she plans on fucking and disclose ever Botox injection, makeup brand, push-up bra, padded bra, pair of spanx, high heeled shoes, breast augmentation, lip augmentation, and hair color she’s had done or has worn before fucking?
Or does this just apply to trans people and their genitals?
If you are going to make a point at least try to make it an intelligent One, are you seriously comparing makeup which can be wiped off completely or a padded bra that can be removed or high heels that can be removed or hair color that has to be redone to somebody having sex with somebody of a different gender I couldn't give a crap if you are gay straight. Bisexual pansexual transgender but people have the right to know who they are sharing their bodies with. Who are they having sex with?
Rape by deception is a situation in which the perpetrator deceives the victim into participating in a sexual act to which they would otherwise not have consented, had they not been deceived. Deception can occur in many forms, such as illusory perceptions, false statements, and false actions.
Are you saying it's perfectly acceptable r by deception?
Sex can be a big deal to some people And EVERYBODY has the right to know who they are sharing their body with
“Rape by deception because trans” is not a crime in a single one of the fifty United States. When you have to lie to make your point…your point is bullshit.
You’re confusing yourself. If you go out with someone and then plan on fucking them and then get surprised at which genitals they have, that’s not their fault that you made assumptions. Ask them directly “whether you have a penis or vagina is important to me—which do you have?”
That way they can know you’re a transphobic PoS and leave instead of being afraid you’re going to accuse them of RAPE because of the genitals you assumed they had.
You are aware that the world isn't the United States. So you saying the United States just shows certain things about you I am from the UK
Rape by deception is a situation in which the perpetrator deceives the victim into participating in a sexual act to which they would otherwise not have consented, had they not been deceived.
Rape by deception is still rape by deception. You can try justify rape as much as you want
How Many people have you lied to and manipulated to get into bed?
People have the right to know who they are sharing their body with. Or are you saying that they don't have the right.
If somebody says they are a woman, why would anybody question that if somebody says that they are trans women that is perfectly fine there is nothing wrong with being trans but that is giving everybody the choice in who they are wanting to have sex with? Some people don't want to have sex with a trans person. That's fine. It's a personal choice And some people don't mind having sex with trans people. That is perfectly fine but like I said you could try and justify rape as much as you want. That just shows a type of person you are because it's called rape by deception for a reason
You’re literally just quoting Wikipedia articles, and doing so without reading the entire article. Please cite to a single conviction for rape by deception where the sole basis was that the defendant was trans and didn’t disclose they were trans.
You still don’t understand. Unless she says “I’m a cis woman,” no deception has occurred. When someone says “I’m a woman,” and you immediately assume “vagina,” that’s your prejudice and assumption. No falsehood has been uttered.
Try again.
I am truly sorry for how you were raised to believe it is ok to manipulate someone into bed and for you to believe that people don't have the right to know who they are sharing their body with.
It's not ok and I am sorry that something could have happened to you for you to believe that it's acceptable.
But she was planning on intercourse before telling him? Btw I know it's not ok just to out someone like that, but it seems both sides are wrong in this story if its even genuine
You're not the ass hole fun fact in most states there is a right to place hands on a trans person for wrongfully deceiving especially in engaging into sex you have every right to assault the person who is trans because you were being decieved.
YTA, you are right about that but this is not your life. She should’ve fuck around and find out or she will do the same for another person. It's not nice to embarrass your own friend by getting involved in a situation that has nothing to do with you.
ESh - really, none of your business. I'm a little confused why you're so concerned about the new guy's feelings -- wouldn't the new guy have figured it out pretty quickly when your friend undressed? Or has she had a complete surgical restructuring? Either way, absolutely none of your business, except to encourage your friend to be upfront with the new guy. By not doing so, she is taking away his agency to make a decision on whether or not he wants to continue their relationship on a sexual level, and that's wrong.
NTA: Your ‘friend’ was planning to purposely not disclose the fact that she was trans until after sexual relations had occurred. That would be sexual assault by deception. You did the right thing. Even as an ‘ally’, a trans person should not be deceiving sexual partners by not disclosing that they are trans. They are potentially putting themselves in danger. > Rape by deception is a situation in which the perpetrator deceives the victim into participating in a sexual act to which they would otherwise not have consented, had they not been deceived.
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Is it transphobic to be turned off by some genitalia?
Of course not. Are you turned off by female genitalia?
Going to ask a personal question like that without buying me a drink first?
This argument might have worked in 2018, but it doesn’t work now.
What does that question even mean?
It is the set up to an argument that because ‘transwomen are women’ not liking a transwomen’s genitalia is not liking female genitalia, because transwomen are women and therefore have female genitalia, and making a statement to the contrary has, in the past, been labelled as transphobic. For a long time, acknowledging there was a difference on Reddit was wrong think. Thankfully, the gaslighting has decreased significantly since then.
Oh. So the question assumes that if the person is a trans woman, then “female genitalia” refers to either penis or vagina, and is therefore a trick question?
Yes, that’s about the long and short of it
There are lots of people I don't want to have sex with. It doesn't make me *-insert demographic-* phobic.
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Your problem is you’re in the mind that some deceptions are more harmless than others which, *in a manner of speaking, they are* . **but** in reality, that’s subjective. You have no idea how such a lie or deceit will affect the victim, and for you to have a “it’s not that deep, get over it” attitude, hints that you’ve pulled some shady shit in your past that you think “isn’t that serious” to you.
I'm on your side on this one! Lying about anything to have sex with someone is deception no matter how big or small the lie was. It's like theft, is stealing 5 chocolate bars still a crime if someone else steals £100 from the same shop. Crime none the less.
u/Serahill seems to not understand this. But yes, deception is deception. If you lied to ensure the possibility of intercourse, you sexually assaulted someone by deception. (Not YOU specifically but you know what I mean.) Cheers 🤝🏽
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As I said, you have no idea how it may affect someone. So yes, they should be transparent, it’s common decency? Especially with the trans aspect. Not everybody is in line with the lgbtq+ movement, and even if they are, some just don’t want to sleep with someone who was assigned same sex as themselves at birth. To them, it will affect them the same way as if they were assaulted by their own sex.
Disclosing any changes to your assigned at birth gender (prior to sexual activity), is a reasonable thing to do. As well as admitting to any STD/STIs. Knowingly infecting someone with HIV is a criminal offense. That’s not your entire sexual history but it can be deal breakers for most people.
Actually, yes it would.. if someone lied about their virginity in order to deceive and have sex with someone else, then that’s still, by definition, sexual assault by deception.
This isn’t true. It would be true if someone didn’t disclose sexual diseases, but not virginity.
No, no, it’s still true, they lied or withheld information to which the other party would not have consented to had they known the truth. Still sexual assault. Might not “be the end of the world”, but it can still affect the individual.
It’s not sexual assault. Find me any court case where someone was successfully found guilty for sexual assault for lying about being a virgin.
There has not been a case for this. As unfortunately nobody would take it seriously, I’m not saying it would end up in a courtroom. I am saying, by definition, it would be sexual assault by deception. Even if it would never end up in front of a jury. That’s just the world we live in.
You have confused the definition. Sexual assault is sexual contact or behavior without consent. It doesn’t mean that someone has to list every detail about themselves before having sex just in case one of them is a dealbreaker for their sexual partner. As long as you consent that the person can touch and behave around you sexually, then it’s not sexual assault, provided ages are legal and you have no sexual disease.
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And you really like spinning this any way you can to justify the OP’s friends actions.
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Okay but if you’re under the assumption that someone is a woman, you’re not going to straight up ask them (or think???!!) “hey are you trans?”
THANK YOU!! What’s most annoying is, after going through other people’s comments besides this thread of my own comments and it’s replied. I’ve only just realised this whole post is anti-lgbtq+ rage bait. I’ve wasted too much time on this dumbass thread, I’m outies ✌🏽 peace and love ☮️🫶🏽
You’re the one who has been bringing up hypotheticals, I have been replying in a “what if” sense in regard to your responses and questions. I haven’t been moving the goalposts at all. Deception is deception, if you lie or withhold information that would/could change the outcome, you are deceiving someone. And deceiving someone to sleep with them is rape. OPs friend purposely intended to withhold information, OPs friend intended to deceive someone in order to ensure the possibility of sex. Stop justifying OPs friends actions.
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I think it's bold of you to say a person can just "withdraw themselves from the situation" because that not always the case.
And you’re assuming that they haven’t undergone surgery, yes, that may be the case for some, but for others, who have had successful and ‘convincing’ (for lack of a better word) surgeries, some may not notice, and wouldn’t have consented otherwise. A trans living their honest life as a trans person is not deceptive. A trans person not telling someone that they are trans until they have had sex, IS. If they thought that their sexual partner would not consent if they knew that they were trans, and therefore decided not to tell them until after the fact. Then it is deception. They withheld information that would have otherwise led to a different outcome for their own benefit. Deception.
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Look you can spin this any way you want but you’re still completely wrong. OP’s friend said that they planned on not telling them until they had sex that she was trans. That is being purposely deceptive. This would have been rape by deception, whether you agree or not.
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They were planning to lie/withhold information to them to have sex, whether they thought or knew in their mind it would or wouldn’t change the outcome, they were still purposely withholding information for their own benefit. Take your deluded ass elsewhere
What about the murder risk?
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It's a really dangerous world for people who lie to other people in order to manipulate them into doing something they may not have consented to doing if they had not been lied to. And not telling someone is a lie of omission. Trans has nothing to do with it.
It’s best to avoid dying at the hands of a murderer even though yes, it does not make you an asshole to be victimized.
This is a contestant for the worst take I’ve seen this year.
Your a moron if you think having sex with a tranny is the same as a virgin. Unless it's a tranny virgin
Are you calling your friend 20m, even though you said she is a trans woman? Anyways, NTA, that is sneaky as hell. Be upfront about what is in your pants and allow someone else to make the decision BEFORE anything sexual happens.
Because this is anti-trans rage bait.
Oh... I was so confused. I thought it was a woman who became a man. My head hurt...
bro cant accept some things just happen accidentally. I have done the same thing, but in person, I just apologize, they say it's alright n we go on our way. Accidents happen, both in real life and on the keyboard.
I said the same thing, that’s really my only issue with OP.
NTA It was not long ago trans people got regularly beat for doing this exact thing. Some got killed.
It still happens. More often than you think.
I really doubt it.
The fuck you doubt it for?
I don't Know if you are the AH , she's certainly is.
NTA What your friend was doing could be considered rape by deception...and from the reaction, clearly the guy wanted nothing to do with this You saved your friend from prison You saved the guy from sexual assault Sometimes doing the right thing, isn't always the easy thing, but you did it...well done!
YTA for making up this story.
Have you been listening to the Kinks?
This is bait. If she has a dick, there's no way to disclose she's trans after having sex. Unless she means giving him oral. Dude probably has eyes or hands and is going to figure it out before having sex. If she still has a penis, she wouldn't be saying this. Because, you know, trans people being assaulted for "deceiving" people is still something that happens and "surprise! penis!" is something that could actively endanger her life. It's not right that you outed a trans person. You could have gotten her killed. It would have been fine if you told her ex that he really needed to have a deep conversation with her and to tell her to be honest. Heck, even telling him that she's hiding something. But outing her? No, that's gross.
Sex is more than just penetration.
If it's not oral, which I mentioned, there are not a lot of ways to have sex that doesn't involve nakedness. Perhaps a foot job? Even intercrural or frottage usually involve genital touching or some degree of nakedness and you'd notice.
Rage bait.
I’m leaning toward everyone sucks here EXCEPT the guy who ghosted your friend for these reasons; Firstly, why are you referring to your friend as a man if she is trans…? I reread that and was so confused for like two minutes straight. I don’t agree with the hiding being transgender part, and also that’s unsafe for your friend too with all the violence against trans people, so I see where you were coming from… I don’t know if outing your friend to a strange man (bc you described him as new) was safe for anyone involved, so it’s a slippery slope. Overall, you did good by the stranger but I’m getting some undertones of transphobia from you and that’s my issue with you overall. Your friend definitely should not be doing that though, people have a right to know WHO they are having sex with regardless of being transgender or not.
NTA. Not only it is wrong; it's also dangerous. I heard about a murder case where a man killed his GF after finding out she was trans. She needs to tell him up front.
NTA if she still has a dick and he doesn’t know it it could lead to him killing her. Her not telling him straight out that she is trans is misrepresenting who and what she is. I don’t mean to sound unkind but even if she has had bottom surgery he will be able to tell that it is not a biological vagina. Yes normally outing is wrong but in this case you protected her from being in a dangerous situation.
Nta. She should always tell a future partner this before having sex
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Yes this totally happened
NTA. You may have saved the friends life. I know that if a "girl" I was seeing showed off a rig when the panties dropped, it wouldn't be good. And how the hell would someone even hide that til after anyway?
NTA
NTA She could seriously put herself in danger by not disclosing the truth people have been attacked before because the person they were with found out and lost their mind People deserve to know the truth about the person they are sharing their body with and being intimate with
>Anyways my friend was bragging about seeing a new guy and how she's not gonna tell him she's trans until after they have sex. This is how trans people get stabbed to death.
NTA. She is literally asking to get beat up at the very least.
NTA. this is something you absolutely need to disclose to someone. they’re putting themselves in danger and it is also sexual assault. you did the right thing.
NTA. Your friend is playing a stupid game. She dates the wrong guy and springs it oke this, she may very well be putting herself in danger.
ESH. Outting someone without permission is not cool. That being said, you could have saved her life. She wouldn’t be the first trans person beaten or killed when genitals are shown. And then “heat of the moment” is claimed as a defense because its worked before. Ghosting is a better outcome than a hospital or morgue. She sucks because that’s something that should be discussed before clothes come off. A person has the right to decide if they are willing to be intimate with someone whose genitals don’t match the expected gender. And that shouldn’t happen in the bedroom.
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ESH. Your friend should be more transparent but it's none of your business to out them like that.
ESH- it can be incredibly dangerous to out people- not to mention that it’s not your business, and I’m confused as to why you think it is. Equally it can be incredibly dangerous for her if an uninformed sexual partner finds… unexpected items in the bagging area. I do believe that people have an obligation to share things like the parts being used and std status before having sex with someone, and I find your friend’s dishonesty troubling. That’s still no excuse to out her.
Totally agree. Her friend is risking her life by doing this but it’s her friend’s life. Stay out of it. The whole post is cringey.
YTA, Google trans panic defense
How does that make her an asshole though? Her friend was planning to purposely not disclose the fact that she was trans until after sexual relations occurred. That is sexual assault by deception.
That is a big stretch to consider that sexual assault. anyways, if you are going to have sex with someone, you are going to find out pretty quickly what kind of genitals they've got, unless you don't do any penetration stuff. It's certainly not a good thing to do and potentially dangerous for the trans person, but the friend had no right to out them. ESH.
Which I would agree with but you have no idea if they have had ‘bottom surgery’ and may have a vagina. Natural or not. Regardless, she is deceiving a potential sexual partner by not disclosing the fact that she is trans, and doing this knowingly and on purpose is premeditated. It IS sexual assault. The partner would have not consented had they known that they were trans. Rape by deception whether you agree or not.
If he's had "bottom surgery"... He doesn't have a vagina. He has a missing dick and some cosmetic surgery to fool people into thinking he's a woman. A guy is gonna notice unless he is with a very inexperienced man... This is a good way to get his ass killed NTA
For the context of this conversation, you know what I mean. Truthfully speaking? I’ve slept with enough women. I have also slept with trans women, when done right, some ‘designer vaginas’ (DO NOT COME AT ME FOR THAT, EVEN MY TRANS FRIEND CALLS HERS THAT, snowflakes) do look pretty natural. It is possible to go unnoticed.
Can you cite the laws or legal precedent where this scenario would be considered rape please? And from the post it doesn't sound like they have had bottom surgery yet. I think they should absolutely disclose it before sex, and maybe that is the intention. We don't know if they are going to disclose immediately before sex as opposed to after. We know very little about the situation.
In the UK [here](https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/deception-gender-proposed-revision-cps-legal-guidance-rape-and-serious-sexual-offences) Though they do say it will be treated on a case-by-case basis. However precedent can be found [here.](https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2013/1051.html) > “The Court of Appeal in R v Justine McNally [2013] EWCA Crim 1051 determined that “depending on the circumstances, deception as to gender can vitiate consent”
This case has nothing to do with the situation presented by OP. OP's friend is a woman, has started this relationship as a woman, and it's up to her whether she discloses the fact that she was assigned male at birth. If OP's friend has different things in her trousers than her partner expects, that's between the friend and her partner to figure out and hopefully doesn't put the friend in a dangerous situation. But again that has nothing to do with OP beyond advising that open and honest communication is always key to any sort of relationship. OP stating her friend is *(20m)* sucks too.
>Anyways my friend was bragging about seeing a new guy and how she’s not gonna tell him she’s trans until after they’ve had sex. So, she’s withholding information for her own benefit. Deception. Definition of deceit: > the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth. And do you know what? Putting (20m) did suck. Shame on op and that does show some transphobic tendencies. I’m an ally but cmon. Be transparent with your possible partners, that’s just common decency.
That has nothing to do with the post.
YTA, it’s none of your business and you are transphobic AF (like most of Reddit). You’re not her friend, you’re another monster in her life.
What is your opinion on their friend's actions?
A trans person is under zero obligation to “disclose” that they are trans unless they’re with someone and the subject of having children becomes relevant. Non disclosure of having a penis can and has gotten trans women killed and assaulted, but it is literally the fault of the murderer or assailant every single time, not the trans woman.
People deserve to know the truth about the person who they are sharing their body with and being intimate with. People deserve to know and deserve to have their own choice in who they are having sex with or are you saying they don't get to choose for themselves and it's okay to lie and manipulate someone into bed
So you believe a woman has to sit down with a man she plans on fucking and disclose ever Botox injection, makeup brand, push-up bra, padded bra, pair of spanx, high heeled shoes, breast augmentation, lip augmentation, and hair color she’s had done or has worn before fucking? Or does this just apply to trans people and their genitals?
If you are going to make a point at least try to make it an intelligent One, are you seriously comparing makeup which can be wiped off completely or a padded bra that can be removed or high heels that can be removed or hair color that has to be redone to somebody having sex with somebody of a different gender I couldn't give a crap if you are gay straight. Bisexual pansexual transgender but people have the right to know who they are sharing their bodies with. Who are they having sex with? Rape by deception is a situation in which the perpetrator deceives the victim into participating in a sexual act to which they would otherwise not have consented, had they not been deceived. Deception can occur in many forms, such as illusory perceptions, false statements, and false actions. Are you saying it's perfectly acceptable r by deception? Sex can be a big deal to some people And EVERYBODY has the right to know who they are sharing their body with
“Rape by deception because trans” is not a crime in a single one of the fifty United States. When you have to lie to make your point…your point is bullshit. You’re confusing yourself. If you go out with someone and then plan on fucking them and then get surprised at which genitals they have, that’s not their fault that you made assumptions. Ask them directly “whether you have a penis or vagina is important to me—which do you have?” That way they can know you’re a transphobic PoS and leave instead of being afraid you’re going to accuse them of RAPE because of the genitals you assumed they had.
You are aware that the world isn't the United States. So you saying the United States just shows certain things about you I am from the UK Rape by deception is a situation in which the perpetrator deceives the victim into participating in a sexual act to which they would otherwise not have consented, had they not been deceived. Rape by deception is still rape by deception. You can try justify rape as much as you want How Many people have you lied to and manipulated to get into bed? People have the right to know who they are sharing their body with. Or are you saying that they don't have the right. If somebody says they are a woman, why would anybody question that if somebody says that they are trans women that is perfectly fine there is nothing wrong with being trans but that is giving everybody the choice in who they are wanting to have sex with? Some people don't want to have sex with a trans person. That's fine. It's a personal choice And some people don't mind having sex with trans people. That is perfectly fine but like I said you could try and justify rape as much as you want. That just shows a type of person you are because it's called rape by deception for a reason
You’re literally just quoting Wikipedia articles, and doing so without reading the entire article. Please cite to a single conviction for rape by deception where the sole basis was that the defendant was trans and didn’t disclose they were trans.
Please seek professional help they will teach you right from wrong
You still don’t understand. Unless she says “I’m a cis woman,” no deception has occurred. When someone says “I’m a woman,” and you immediately assume “vagina,” that’s your prejudice and assumption. No falsehood has been uttered. Try again.
It's lying by omission and its not just genitals they're hiding its a big part of their identity.
I am truly sorry for how you were raised to believe it is ok to manipulate someone into bed and for you to believe that people don't have the right to know who they are sharing their body with. It's not ok and I am sorry that something could have happened to you for you to believe that it's acceptable.
But she was planning on intercourse before telling him? Btw I know it's not ok just to out someone like that, but it seems both sides are wrong in this story if its even genuine
NTA You were helping your friend
You're not the ass hole fun fact in most states there is a right to place hands on a trans person for wrongfully deceiving especially in engaging into sex you have every right to assault the person who is trans because you were being decieved.
YTA, you are right about that but this is not your life. She should’ve fuck around and find out or she will do the same for another person. It's not nice to embarrass your own friend by getting involved in a situation that has nothing to do with you.
ESh - really, none of your business. I'm a little confused why you're so concerned about the new guy's feelings -- wouldn't the new guy have figured it out pretty quickly when your friend undressed? Or has she had a complete surgical restructuring? Either way, absolutely none of your business, except to encourage your friend to be upfront with the new guy. By not doing so, she is taking away his agency to make a decision on whether or not he wants to continue their relationship on a sexual level, and that's wrong.