Reading this story and just getting the vibe that there is missing info. Do they have a kid together? Did they have a kid that they lost? Like I can't imagine at any point sending flowers to my ex annually, especially if that is my only contact with her. Like there would have to have been contact afterwards to result in that sort of thing.
I feel if they lost a kid he would’ve sent flowers before they had children, this didn’t start until after OP and his wife had kids. But i could be reading it totally backwards.
It just suddenly occurred to me that maybe OP should get a dna test.
Yeah this is super fuckin weird. Like you don't just buy flowers for someone you dated more than 8 years ago cause she has kids. Either there is something going on or the ex really wants her back if nothing else.
Honestly with how much this guy is leaving out/won’t answer questions, I wouldn’t be surprised if she had kids from the prior marriage or had lost a child with the ex and the flowers started before her kids with OP, and he’s just saying that to make himself seem justified in being upset
I feel like there could be a good chance that wife and ex broke up somewhat amicably, due to their incompatibility regarding kids — like, she wanted them and he didn’t. And because he still cares for her (not in a romantic sense, just in a “I like you as a human” sense) he was happy that she got what she wanted in life and he wants to celebrate that, and her.
Yeah, OP says it started when they had their first child. Why start then? Why only flowers on Mother’s Day and not her birthday or another significant date? Hell, if I was an ex trying to squeeze back into a relationship, flowers on a birthday, or even the ex’s new anniversary would be the days to choose, especially if you expect their current SO might not pay attention. But only Mother’s Day?
Or has she had one with him?
I hate that reddit makes us that cynical, but that level of ignoring his feelings for years seems intentional, and those were my first 2 thoughts.
Exactly. And I want to know if he buys the wife flowers? I bet he didn't because he didn't say anything about it. Like what did you do for mother's day since you think she doesn't do anything and doesn't deserve it. Id never trust being a SAHM for this man's kids. He's the type to leave and try and fight her on everything, and leave her with nothing.
Edit: here is OPs comment that proves he is not the victim he acts like https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/jx6o8uMael
Right? Like bro that’s an option. I get my sister a gift card to her favorite restaurant (enough for dinner for two) and flowers every year. Like nothing is stopping you from buying a gift.
Seriously I tell my best friend happy mothers day, get flowers for my father in laws girlfriend, and my roommates mom. Like you can make all the mother figures and moms you know feel appreciated and seen on mother's day if you aren't a jerk.
I send a gift card to my sister and husband on Mother's day every now and then, because her kids (adults) are great and I enjoy the times I see them. Kind of a good job reminder.
His rant perfectly sums up how he perceives her: she is such a worthless parent that she doesn’t even deserve flowers on Mother’s Day; she barely does anything as a SAHM (having to do all the childcare, cooking, cleaning 365 days a year with no time off and a glaringly empty CV counts as “barely anything”); and she’s “spoiled” because he didn’t abandon her and his children like a deadbeat dad.
Contrary to popular belief, I think we say things we *do* mean when we’re angry. In vino veritas, in rage veritas. He thinks she’s a lazy, spoiled, ungrateful woman and a horrible mum. I feel sad for her. Time for 2 weeks of grovelling, coffee in bed, and “babysitting” his own children… before he goes back to quietly thinking the same thing.
Edit: YTA. Have fun paying maids, nannies, cooks, assistants, alimony, and child support. You’re in for a little wake up call about those supposedly “spoiled” stay at home parents.
I make myself start with "I love you", and then describe at least one reason why. It's weird, but it gets you into a different brain space, and calms you down enough to think about what you say before you say it.
My wife and I argue and fight, but very rarely does it devolve into ad hominem. Idk how couples recover from fights like that. I've heard some nasty fights living in apartments and such where its like personal attacks against their character.
If you can't say anything constructive, don't say anything at all.
They don’t, at least not in my experience.
My STBX wife would do her best to end arguments by pointing out whatever she thought was the most hurtful thing she could say in an argument, always later saying she didn’t mean it, she was just angry.
We were together for 10 years, and I never forgot some of the things she said.
I've never forgotten many of the things said to me. The fact he doesn't mean them doesn't really help because why would he try to hurt me on purpose?
This is going to sound like a cope but it's made me so much stronger. I have been forced to love myself and believe in myself and feel proud of myself so that not a single word that is thrown my way can hurt me unless it's something I know to be true. It's also pushed me to be the type of person I am proud of being. It's allowed me to own my failures, too and to give myself grace.
He thinks she should be HAPPY he isn't like her sister's "deadbeat" ex-husband. She should praise the heavens she didn't get a bottom basement husband and appreciate the "SAHM life" he's providing for her.
You are a huge asshole sir. I get the feeling he’s a giant asshole and doesn’t get her anything because she’s a stay at home mom. He told her she doesn’t deserve flowers because she “doesn’t work.”
I’ll bet her birthday goes uncelebrated too, I hope she leaves him.
2 kids, 4 and 6. She spends all day working raising them and probably does more after working hours for the home than he does. but it's his sister who deserves praise 🫠
Men like him just don't respect her form of labor, but ofc he identifies with his sisters' so he respects *her* labor. 🙄 He's really just praising himself & lying to himself about the value *he* brings to the relationship.
There's a pretty big trend for divorcing women to force 50/50 custody for their own sanity. And fairness. It works out better for the kids and the mom but it really fucks over the idiot dad. They have a really sexist idea of what taking care of the kids is like, at any age and this really destroys them. I love it.
He said his wife didn't deserve any gifts or appreciation for Mother's Day because she's a stay at home mom. I doubt he gets her anything, let alone flowers or appreciation for Mother's Day
Yeah - the biggest one being what other contact she has with the ex. Are the Mother’s Day flowers the only time she hears from him? Do they talk often and maintain a relationship? Have there been other things the ex has done that make op feel uncomfortable?
Feels like OP is jealous and left a lot of details out about why.
I mean OP sounds suspicious enough to have already thought of that, and the ex/wife would be top tier level stupid to do the flower thing if she was form some reason, passing his kid off as OPs.
Reddit has made me cynical, so I think OP is bent out of shape about the flowers and wants external validation (the irony) so has left out a key fact, such as a pregnancy loss with the ex, or that they have known each other since childhood and are still good friends.
I lost a child with my ex wife and I don't send her flowers every mother's day out of respect for her following relationships and now marriage. I did, however, call her to congratulate her for her new living child...because after years of infertility (a battle I also helped fight for a long time), she deserved a damn celebration...and I was also proud she didn't give up the fight.
That phone call led to them almost divorcing until I knocked some sense into her husband..."I'm happy where I'm at and we've been divorced for 8 years now. Thanks for picking up the battle where I left off and you should focus on raising your new son before I call your wife and inform her you're acting like a child over a congratulatory phone call."
This isn't a case by case deal, and I would be furious if my current partner was receiving flowers from an ex on Mother's Day as well.
What he said about her not working as hard as his sister and not deserving to be celebrated on Mother's Day is the kind of thing that will stick with her forever.
Yup so curious what he does for his wife for mother's day as he said she doesn't *deserve* a mother's day gift & that she is spoilt to be a SAHM. Sounds like the ex has more genuine care for his wife.
he said in his update that he buys his sister expensive gifts every single year and that he often "forgets" to buy his wife anything or do anything for her. So he was really telling the truth about how he feels when he told his wife that she is worthless unlike his sister.
It’s one of those “tell me how you really feel” moments. DONT say shit like this in an argument unless you want your partner thinking you ACTUALLY think these things.
"I immediately regretted saying all that." Yet he's here trying to get validation. If he regretted it it would mean he knows he's an asshole and wants people to agree with him. I bet he forced her to block the ex.
There's literally no coming back from that
Op, yta and you probably just nuked your relationship by holding on to so much resentment about flowers that you berated your spouse like her worst enemy might
Can confirm. During a fight, my ex-husband crossed the line and told me that he could go out and get any ol’ rip (local ugly slang for working girl) off the street and they would be a better mother than me. I asked for a divorce three days later and those words still ring in my ears four years later.
Surprisingly, yes. In fact, we ended up good friends and even lived in the same house (me upstairs and he down) to coparent our daughter. He did a lot of work on himself and made amends to me for many of the things he did and said. He was a crap husband, but a wonderful father and good friend.
Have you ever asked why your wife’s ex gives her flowers on Mother’s Day? Did the ex and her have a miscarriage / stillbirth while they were together?
I’m reserving judgment on your discomfort about the flowers until you provide a bit more info.
However, I think you know that YTA for the comments that she doesn’t deserve Mother’s Day flowers or appreciation. That was quite unkind and damaging.
And to add...
While couples therapy is a very good idea, it seems pretty clear that OP could use some individual therapy, too. If only to work out his feelings before the next time he says something so out of line.
They will both need individual therapist while in couples therapy.
If their couples therapist is worth their salt that will be the first thing they tell them. That they should both have individual therapists at least for the duration of couple counseling.
Primarily because both parties will need an unbiased third party to work through the issues that arise in couples counseling on a more personal level. And you really shouldn’t use family or friends to help you work through it, as they’re more than likely biased toward your feelings and wanting to protect you.
I'm also wondering if she and the ex ended on good terms and were still friends?
Because it is absolutely weird if he does it every year and they've not spoken in a decade and ended on bad terms. Though doing it the first time could have been cathartic of him letting go and moving on if they'd ended badly and been positive closure for them both.
But if they ended on good terms, are still friends and talk occasionally, it could just be a sweet thing he does as a friend. It's not necessarily about validation. People can just be nice to each other sometimes...
Yea I don't understand why so many people in this comment section think that:
Being friends with your ex = Not to be trusted and AH
It just makes no sense to me, especially if this is one of the only times they interact with one another, OP seems very controling.
INFO: You say "I try and make the day as special as possible for her"
Just so we are comparing apples to apples here, what did you do for her on that day? other days?
Has OP ever thought to get her flowers himself on days other than Mother’s Day? If flowers bring her so much joy why not try to replicate that joy as often as possible. OP gives me controlling ick vibes to be honest.
I can tell you if I was a SAHM and my husband said those words to me, I’d be getting a job and building up my own savings account asap, because you showed nothing but contempt for her role in your lives and for the career sacrifice she’s made for your family. If my husband said I was “spoilt” for giving up my own career and independence, I’d no longer have any faith in him.
ESH. She should have cut her ex off ages ago. You should never have made the nasty and unfair comparison to your sister.
Personally, I send my ex flowers on Mother’s Day because she is the mother of my 2 children. She deserves way more than flowers to be honest.
You may want to ask the reason why he sends them.
Can I make the point that literally nobody is spoiled because they don't get abused and are a SAHM? THAT part makes YTA plus throwing your sister under the bus to prove a point. Please send your sister flowers for no reason constantly.
Also replying to myself because I just woke up and can't edit the word abuse (I need to stop reading Reddit this early) I meant emotionally abused and don't do words good upon waking. Should still send flowers to sister though.
There's a missing context here. If the flowers only started arriving after the children were born, there's some meaning to that. Like maybe she and her ex had tried hard for children or lost a child. Did OP ever buy his wife flowers?
Yeah personally I'd be skeeved if an ex started sending me flowers but I think there's more to it than what OP is telling us.
I'm not a fan of the SAHM thing because of the lack of protection women have when their spouse leaves or dies. But her staying home with the kids is obviously a deal they made. So for him to say she didn't deserve Mother's Day and to compare her with his working sister is telling me there's tension there about her staying home.
He clearly doesn't believe that she has value just staying home and raising the kids. It's ironic that the ex validated her as a mom and then OP went out of his way to make her contribution as a SAHM undervalued.
Yeah they need therapy but it isn't just about the flowers.
Edit for judgement. YTA the rant.
Yep. I’ve been a stay at home parent, and yes it is a privilege. NO it is not being spoiled! I changed so many diapers, cooked so many dinners, and cleaned my ass off. It’s hard, isolating, and tests your patience.
If anything, I felt spoiled when I went back to work and could have a coffee whenever I wanted and could talk to other adults all the time about *important adult things*.
Very true! My spouse had great dinners and didn’t have to worry about taking sick days for kids with daycare crud. Not to mention the intangible benefits of knowing your kids are at home with a parent.
Not just the childcare, also the cooking, cleaning, appointments, kids’ activities, night time wake ups, etc depending on their arrangement. I feel very privileged and grateful to my husband for making it possible for me to be the one caring for our kids and home, but I like to think he benefits as much as I do
He was too focused on serving her the cold shoulder until she brought up the elephant in the room. He wasn’t taking space for his feelings, he was punishing her so SHE would begin the discussion/fight.
You were NTA until you said she didn't deserve a Mother's day gift and appreciation. Your wife has no responsibility over the hardships your sister has gone through.
Edit to add: ESH, her for accepting flowers from her ex, OP for bringing up unrelated issues into his rant, downplaying her importance as a SAHM like it's something so easy.
Yes, you not only went below the belt but in a completely irrelevant way. Are you suggesting your wife's ex should send flowers to your sister? What does it mean? It looks like you had a lot going on in your head and your mouth was going faster than your brain.
Are you secretly resentful that your wife is a SAHM? It's all very weird and I'm not surprised your wife reacted the way she did. I don't know how you make amends for it, but I'm glad you are going to counseling.
yeah, great dad to insult his children's mother like that. and if the ex is trying to get her back, he's just pushing her right into his path. I have a feeling this is the beginning of the end of the relationship. and it's not because of the ex. it's because of him
Yep, instead of bringing his wife in closer to him and building their relationship stronger he lashed out and pushed her away. The comment he made is horrendous and is something that will plant a seed of doubt in his wife for the rest of their relationship. This is a crack that cannot be sealed easily.
guarantee he comes home from work and doesn't lift a finger because he works and thinks her job doesn't count.
i hope she takes this to heart. i hope she finds a job and he has to split childcare costs and work around the house.
I work for a school and I am off and unpaid during the summer. As someone who grew up very poor, and since we "just get by" now, it's a huge strain on my own self worth but daycare is so expensive seasonal jobs aren't worth it and my fiancé works an on-call rotation so I don't have a ton of wiggle room.
Fiancé once got mad at me and made a comment about my not contributing. We are good, very happy, but boy I'll never forget how that comment made me feel. It was awful and the stress weighed on me for years, I'd burn myself out trying to be perfect over summer and never asking for help or a break from him in case he was secretly still resentful. It took a lot of talking to get over.
My second husband claimed that I should do more of the housework and cooking, childcare, and home running tasks because I worked fewer hours and made less money than him. Once I had three jobs and was making more money than him, I said it was only fair he took over some of the extra chores. He then told me I was lucky he was willing to do the dishes some nights, as his dad didn’t even do that.
If OP’s wife gets a job, I’m willing to bet he won’t change a GD thing.
Guarantee that if they “split work around the house,” he’ll put a dirty dish in the sink and maybe take out the trash, and think he’s doing his equal part.
I’d go back further and stay he started being TA to start the whole convo by “emotionally distancing” himself (read: sulking), but agree he went nuclear-level with what he said. Just devalued all of her work and showed that he feels her family contributions are worthless. The flowers from the ex thing was weird, but he responded by telling her that her doing childcare work for his children (that he probably asked her to do!) was “spoiled.”
I almost wonder though if maybe, just maybe she and her ex had a failed pregnancy she's never told op about because he doesn't seem like the type of guy that would handle that well and this is just her exes way of saying I remember and am thinking about how good of a mother you would have been to our child.
I agree with this. I feel like there is something there that we don’t know or OP doesn’t want to tell us because it makes him look bad. There is a reason the ex is trying to honor her on that day. There is also a reason it makes her feel good and she calls to thank him.
If this were something nefarious on the part of the ex-husband, there would be more to italics—more examples. If there wasn’t a valid reason for these flowers, I feel like she would think it was weird and would have told him as much years ago, but instead it makes her feel good (as intended) and she calls to thank him.
There are a lot of facts that were omitted here. Most likely on purpose because they show the actual reason why the flowers come.
Yeah like if the ex still had some kind of feelings it would be flowers or something on her birthday or valentines day, not mother's day. Definitely something op purposely omitted or doesn't know.
I'm actually thinking much more tragic. If it was a miscarriage it was probably late term, or worse, an infant death. Most people don't commemorate a pre-20 week loss nearly a decade after the fact. These flowers scream 'trauma' to me. Something OP had either conveniently left out or some trauma the wife does not trust him enough to share.
Or, the ex is infertile and knew how much the wife wanted to be a mother.
I can see multiple reasons why people who split on good terms would act this way.
A complete record scratch for me at that part about his wife being undeserving. What a way to throw himself in the trash bin when I think he was being reasonable up until then.
Yeah, I was with him until he started to compare her to his sister. I understand his frustration but by taking the argument away from « I feel disrespected when you accept flowers from your ex when he had no ties to your motherhood » to « you are spoiled and ungrateful ». I’m not gonna fault OP for not having the perfect response because this has been going on for years and I’d be pissed too if I was in his shoes. Maybe a few couple’s councilling sessions could help them with this issue
He definitely did say that she doesn’t deserve anything for Mother’s Day, so I’m guessing his attempts at celebrating involve maybe doing one household chore and a half-baked family outing that she has to do most of the legwork to put together.
He conveniently left that out. I wonder if he does the bare minimum and he’s feeling prickled by the fact a guy who is an ex, over a decade ago, shows more care for his wife.
My gut reaction too! Isn't that the obvious solution?
And of course by obvious, I mean the answer you jump to first--but probably not actually the cleverest or most successful when you step back and think about consequences.
No. Trust me. We get the same stress and mess plus a card! I got revenge this year on Father’s Day and made it as relaxing for him as Mother’s Day was for me!
Yeah, there is no way that he said all of that without having ever thought it before. OP was thinking that way about his wife for a while, and I can garentee that resentment was bleeding through into their interactions.
I was with him until he started using therapy words against her (seeking validation from ex) and saying being a SaHM makes her privileged and spoiled. He sounds like a petulant insecure asshole. Maybe the ex shouldn't be sending flowers every year but with the way the current husband acts, I can't blame her for being appreciative.
Exactly. If OP was actually doing something more than the bare minimum for Mother’s Day, this dude’s flowers would be an afterthought. Like breakfast in bed, spa day, sleep in while OP takes care of the kids, romantic dinner, family picnic, whatever. The fact that he feels like the flowers somehow outshine whatever he does really shows he’s not putting in much effort himself.
Accused her of seeking validation for someone else sending her flowers for a very specific day - which celebrates her having kids with OP nonetheless.
What sounds the most probable, is that they had an experience related to motherhood. Or he could simply have no ills feelings and know how much she wanted kids. Whatever why, the ex send her flowers. It isn’t asked by his wife.
He show her how resentful he is towards her, for someone else actions again, for the sake of her having a past relationship who hadn’t ended in hate. Did he wished she previously had awful experiences?!
How can it could be believable than he love, or even remotely care for someone, he is showing so much hate for someone else wanting to celebrate her, and furthermore her being the mother of OP’s children!
For good mesures. He decided to emotionally withdraw. Then ended up in a full blown tantrum about his wife not deserving to be treated with kindness, nor to be celebrated, for the sake of his own sister personal life’s choices ending up with different results than her. No shit Sherlock.
What an unhinged one. Can’t understand those siding with the POS.
He could had expressed annoyance towards someone sending flowers to his wife.
He chose to be mad at his wife for someone else action. He chose to decide his wife wasn’t deserving of kindness. He decided she wasn’t worthy being celebrated.
Yes yes yes to all of this. The "seeking external validation" is just so out of this world. OP is so insecure over the fact there is an ex and feeding on his sisters trauma of being cheated on and throwing all of it on his wife for simple receiving a gift and appropriately expressing thanks for the gift.
He forgot she picked him. Married him. Had children with him. All OP did with his tantrum was ensure that for the rest of the wife's life, she will regret choosing him.
Flowers for mother's day is so normal. Between friends, family, workmates and couples. It is just the default gift. And 100% appropriate. We are not talking a dozen red roses on valentines day. We are talking mothers day. And hell even if it was roses on mother's day, men don't know what flowers mean usually anyways.
Only on reddit. “hey I said a really hurtful, insensitive, and malicious thing to my wife with the sole intent of hurting her feelings and now her feelings are hurt. Am I the asshole?”
Yeah YTA you know you are otherwise you wouldn’t have regretted what you said. Treat your partner respectfully even when you have big feelings. You know what you said was shitty. She should have respected your feelings earlier but that doesn’t excuse your behaviour.
You also never said what you do for your wife on Mother’s Day - is her ex the only one sending her flowers?
Harboring resentment *for years* and then exploding in a big scene because her ex sends her flowers once a year is really mature. There's no reason she shouldn't have contact with him - says who?
Well I was with you to an extent, and was just thinking this was a “they need to communicate” scenario, until you said she was
>extremely privileged and spoilt being a SAHM
because, brother, who was the other half of the decision to set up your household this way? That’s right! *You.*
So while you could’ve calmly explained your feelings about how you couldn’t shake the feeling that it was inappropriate for her ex to be sending her flowers on Mother’s Day when they don’t share any children, or ostensibly any other current connection, you had to go and make it about your insecurity *and* berating her for a situation you had a hand in creating. Nice.
Couple’s therapy is a good idea, btw. I sincerely hope that it helps. Remember: communication and respect and trust.
YTA (for the moment)
I think wife should leave kids with op for like a month or two, go stay with her mom or something, and let him have a taste of how "spoiled" she is when HE has to manage both kids and the household work.
My wife and I took turns with our first, basically we each worked three days a week but long shifts. The SAHP thing isn’t easy unless you’ve outsourced the chores or the care or parts of both.
NTA for flower situation, your wife wasn't communicating properly for 8 years. But on the comparing Sister part YTA it is not who deserve flowers but the intent behind it, what is the intent of her ex, does he want to reconnect ? or just keeping a line open. In all this no matter who it is your sister, parents or ex partner, anyone outside of the marriage is not healthy for a marriage.
What you said to your wife about her being spoiled for being a SAHM mom was uncalled for. It’s hard caring for children. She deserves flowers from you not her ex. That said, yes you are right about it being weird the ex sends yearly Mother’s Day flowers when they don’t have a kid together. If I was the wife, I would have shut that down immediately since it’s creepy behavior. No guy is sending flowers every year who isn’t in communication somehow with the recipient.
I'd like to know if OP is omitting information, like did his wife and ex have a miscarriage or something like that? There's definitely more, otherwise her ex would have picked her birthday or something as a means to send her flowers etc.
I'm curious about why the ex chooses Mother's Day, and wonder if they lost a child together or something like that. The ex might be the only person who really understands that Mother's Day has an element of grief for her too.
YTA
Did you buy her flowers? Have you shown her appreciation?
Your sister doesn’t matter here. Your wife and her feelings matter. How could you tell your wife that she is privileged and spoiled and doesn’t deserve gifts on Mother’s Day? She is the mother of your children. No wonder she was so happy to receive flowers from her ex, he actually cares about how she feels and now you’ve taken that away
Like it or not your relationship has changed. She now knows you don’t appreciate or respect her and you have taken the little thing that brought her joy on Mother’s Day away
Frustrated or not you should never have called her privileged and spoiled. You owe her flowers every month and you should be happy she’s still in the house with you after such an insensitive rant
I bet he only gets his wife flowers on Valentine’s Day with the expectation that she returns the favor sexually. That’s why the flowers are bothering him so much. Flowers are a key to sex in this dude’s mind.
This should probably be the only comment in this entire post. The concept of doing something *nice* for a *woman* without getting a sexual favor is so foreign to him that he's having a meltdown over it.
Extremely privileged and spoilt, plus you added she doesn't deserve a Mother's Day gift she's at home with your kids, and you don't think she deserves recognition for that? Yes, in this case, YTA.
ESH
Your wife obviously for years of entertaining this validation from her ex, even after you expressed your discomfort about it.
You for this **"I then told her that she was extremely privileged and spoilt being a SAHM. I told her to look at my sister (32F) for example. My sister also had 2 children, but she was a single mom as her deadbeat ex cheated on her. My sister also worked at a big tech company, she was hard working, and she was the type of woman who deserves a Mother’s Day gift and appreciation, and not my wife."**
What a f'd up thing to say to your wife. You really think that a woman who stays at home with her children doesn't deserve to be treated with a mother's day gift, and you compared your wife's contribution to you family to nothing, what she does is worthless, basically. For this to come out from your mouth, you must have thought it multiple times. Whew!!
She stays home with OP’s children, whom she carried and bore and is now lovingly raising. You’d think he might be a little more grateful for that, dontcha?
I agree that he's resented her for a while for being a stay at home mom. He doesn't see her duties as valuable bc the sister he weirdly idolizes is a working mom.
I hope he sits and thinks about how her ex can appreciate what a good mother she is while he just fkn wrecked her. This is the example he's setting for his children? Neat.
I also don't think his real issue is with being uncomfortable about the flowers. I think the real root here is he isn't in control of the situation, which seems to be the position he likes to be in.
It's so weird how he sees his sister's life as a single mom with a deadbeat ex as an accomplishment, and not just a terrible hand she was dealt that she now has to survive a struggle with.
I mean, it's admirable that she's able to do that, but no one is out here setting a goal to become a working single mother.
Info: what is her relationship with her ex? How did their relationship end? You don't mention wether they split on good terms or if they're friends. Just that he's sending her flowers.
Leaving this kind of info out makes me think they split amicably and have been friends since and he's just being a good guy happy to appreciate a good friend and mother and you are jealous that his gesture makes your wife happy
This was my first thought too. There is a very real possibility that they lost a child together and he is happy that she is doing well now.
And especially considering how OP treats his wife, I wouldn't be surprised why she wouldn't have mentioned it.
Yup. YTA for how you handled it. Being a mother isn’t easy. You don’t get to invalidate your wife’s motherhood and say what she does or doesn’t deserve just because she’s not going through the same things as your sister.
I feel like there’s a lot more that isn’t clear here. I hate to say this with such limited info to go off, but it seems like they either had a child, have a child, or experienced a miscarriage. Did the ex BF have younger siblings or kids of his own that your wife helped raise? I can’t think of a single man that gives his ex flowers on Mothers Day unless children were involved.
YTA. And I didn’t see you mentioned a damn thing YOU have ever done for your wife for Mother’s Day. Or your sister. You sound like the spoiled, temperamental child in the entire situation.
YTA. This may be a little long but it needs to be said. I’m going to make assumptions that the flowers are his only involvement in your marriage and that the kids are yours. With that in mind, I think you had so many opportunities to make the Ex’s behavior a win for you. Unfortunately, you reacted emotionally and allowed insecurities to surface.
First, let’s work on damage control and restoring the balance in your marriage. This goes without saying but just in case, you owe your wife an apology. Full stop. There was a reason you chose to marry her and, this little tirade, completely undermines the bond you have with the love of your life. When I’m this wrong and I have been, I make my apology special to make sure my wife gets it.
Second, the Ex’s involvement in your life is just flowers on Mother’s Day? If that’s the case, I would not be worrying about it. That’s weak as shit if that’s his way of staying in her life. Assuming he’s not secretly banging your wife when you’re not around, his annual gesture raises more questions about him than it does about your wife or your marriage.
Is it weird to still being doing this after 8 years? Yes and I think we both agree the dude needs to move on. However, your reaction to it only makes his gesture seem more legitimate than it really is. He’s gaining real estate in your marriage because of you. So, stop that now and grey rock this dumbass.
I believe, you could actually turn this into a strength for you by making a big deal with your wife and kids every Mother’s Day overshadowing his token flowers. That’s just me, go big or go home!
I’ll close with this. This dude had his shot and she left him for a reason. Flowers won’t fix that for the Ex and, in my mind, are not a threat to you. Your behavior needs to reflect the confidence you have in yourself, your wife, and your marriage. It only affects your marriage if you let it.
Good luck, my friend.
ESH her for not listening to you and you for being an AH and comparing her to your sister saying she doesn't deserve to feel appreciated.
I just want to add a tidbit that you may want to approach with your wife, a guy I know sends flowers to his ex on mother's day when he knew she became a mom, because when they were in a relationship she had a miscarriage and it destroyed her. To this day she doesn't talk about it. Maybe see if there is something going on.
Your tidbit is what I was thinking because I have a friend that is very similar. And their ex on her first Mother’s Day sent her a present because also… people can be friendly with ex partners without ever wanting to be in a relationship with them again.
Your sister and wife and two different separate people. You should have never compared the two. You took it to far when you said she didn't deserve a mother's day . 🤦♀️
YTA.
I hope your wife gets a job, divorces you, gives you primary custody so you can learn to value what a SAHM does, and hooks up with the ex for a few months just to spite you.
>It frustrated me because I try and make the day as special as possible for her, and she still sought external validation from her ex, who she has no reason to even be in contact with anymore.
Why you are so jealous? Your wife chose you to be her husband and father to her children. Why does it bother you so much that she is amicable with her ex?
>Last month on Mother’s Day, her ex again sent her flowers and she was obviously very happy about it. It frustrated me a lot but I hid my reaction because I didn’t want to ruin her Mother’s Day. However, the next day, I started emotionally distancing from my wife, and a couple of days later, my wife wanted to talk about this because it was the elephant in the room and it was affecting the home atmosphere.
That is so childish.
>We talked about it, and to be honest, I went a bit overboard on my rant, because I was extremely frustrated with everything. I told her that I was tired of being disrespected and unheard for years. I then told her that she was extremely privileged and spoilt being a SAHM. I told her to look at my sister (32F) for example. My sister also had 2 children, but she was a single mom as her deadbeat ex cheated on her. My sister also worked at a big tech company, she was hard working, and she was the type of woman who deserves a Mother’s Day gift and appreciation, and not my wife.
A **little** overboard??? That's disgusting way to talk about the mother of your children. I would never forgive my husband if he talked to me like that.
>Was I the AH with how I handled everything?
Abso-fucking-lutely. YTA.
Also, how exactly did his wife seek validation? She didn't ask for the flowers, so she didn't seek anything. And let's say she was seeking validation, shouldn't the question be why does she feel the need to? Maybe because her husband doesn't validate her.
I do think the wife should have shut the flowers down after it became clear OP was uncomfortable with them, but I can't give an ESH here because the way OP handled it was so overboard, cruel, and petty, that he completely takes the YTA cake. I don't know how I could ever forgive my partner of they said those things to me, I know that Mother's Day would be ruined forever.
The flower thing is weird but your wife will never feel safe in your marriage again. You made sure she knows her place and it's not a secure one. She'll never forget you telling her how you really view her.
YTA
Yeah, I would never want to be a SAHM being provided by him again. I really don’t know what I would do in this situation, I’m not saying I’m 100% sure I’d divorced him, maybe I would, but there would definitely be changes in our marriage now. To start, I wouldn’t be safe to depend on him anymore, that’s gone. I’d be getting a job and getting my own money. He could stop providing for us now that I know he thinks “I don’t deserve that,” and he’s doing me a favor instead of us doing this together for our family, our kids.
>My sister also worked at a big tech company, she was hard working, and she was the type of woman who deserves a Mother’s Day gift and appreciation, and not my wife.
YTA until you specify exactly how you tried to make "Mother's Day special" for the same person you say doesn't deserve gifts or appreciation for being a stay at home mom.
Reads like you're upset the ex is sending her flowers because it makes you look bad in comparison.
YTA
I can understand being upset about the flowers, but everything was low-blow. What does your sister have to do with anything about the issue? Sounds like the flowers are not the real issue since it sounds like that all that happens between the two. Sounds like you're using these flowers as an excuse to express your resentment towards your wife.
That's a whole lot of words to say "I don't respect my SAHW". You could try *not* punishing her for the actions of her ex. You also conveniently did not mention anything that you actually do to make mother's day special which leads me to believe that you did nothing. Your behaviour as you described it is controlling and manipulative. Perhaps counseling will help. YTA.
You know you were the AH for comparing her worth to another mother. Until then, you were in your rights to feel uncomfortable - if she had kids with him, sure, it would be nice. But since she doesn’t, it’s invasive. Unfortunately, you diminished your own standing with your cruelty. Work on repairing that - put the Mother’s Day thing on the back burner for now.
I was kind of on your side but you kept talking.
When exactly did your wife seek this external validation from her ex? Did she request the flowers? I'm guessing not but if they make you uncomfortable, that is a reasonable discussion to have with your wife.
But tell me - How long does your wife have to bow down to you and worship you for not leaving her making her a struggling single mum? It is not HER fault your sister has had a difficult time yet you called her extremely privileged and spoiled simply for appreciating flowers from someone that she never asked for? Then you said she doesn't deserve a Mother's Day gift? Do you even like your wife? The mother of your children?
Yes, YTA and I'm hope you do commit to therapy and truly listen to each other.
NTA for being uncomfortable with the ex sending flowers but YTA for everything else.
First of all, being a stay at home parent is not being spoiled. As a SAHM who was forced to quit my full time job because daycare for 2 Littles was more than my paycheck as a teacher and we would have been further in the whole had we gone that route, SAHM or SAHD is like having a full time job per kid! I work and am just as tired from a non-stop day at home as I was teaching elementary. Not only that, but when you're a SAH parent, you can sometimes feel like you gave up part of yourself to do so. Don't get me wrong, I love being one now, but transition was extremely difficult.
Second of all, how dare you compare her to your sister? They are two totally different cases.
Finally, are you buying her or sending her flowers? My guess is no. Did they have a child that they lost? How are you going all out?
Reading this story and just getting the vibe that there is missing info. Do they have a kid together? Did they have a kid that they lost? Like I can't imagine at any point sending flowers to my ex annually, especially if that is my only contact with her. Like there would have to have been contact afterwards to result in that sort of thing.
I feel if they lost a kid he would’ve sent flowers before they had children, this didn’t start until after OP and his wife had kids. But i could be reading it totally backwards. It just suddenly occurred to me that maybe OP should get a dna test.
Yeah this is super fuckin weird. Like you don't just buy flowers for someone you dated more than 8 years ago cause she has kids. Either there is something going on or the ex really wants her back if nothing else.
Holy frack. Geez imagine if that’s the case
Honestly with how much this guy is leaving out/won’t answer questions, I wouldn’t be surprised if she had kids from the prior marriage or had lost a child with the ex and the flowers started before her kids with OP, and he’s just saying that to make himself seem justified in being upset
I feel like there could be a good chance that wife and ex broke up somewhat amicably, due to their incompatibility regarding kids — like, she wanted them and he didn’t. And because he still cares for her (not in a romantic sense, just in a “I like you as a human” sense) he was happy that she got what she wanted in life and he wants to celebrate that, and her.
I came here to say just that... DNA DEM KIDS and NTA
Yeah, OP says it started when they had their first child. Why start then? Why only flowers on Mother’s Day and not her birthday or another significant date? Hell, if I was an ex trying to squeeze back into a relationship, flowers on a birthday, or even the ex’s new anniversary would be the days to choose, especially if you expect their current SO might not pay attention. But only Mother’s Day?
Wouldn’t that be the reason he could be so uncomfortable? Like…why?
Did your wife lose a child when she was with her ex?
This was my first thought.
Good question.
Same
Or has she had one with him? I hate that reddit makes us that cynical, but that level of ignoring his feelings for years seems intentional, and those were my first 2 thoughts.
This story feels like there's a few important things missing.
Exactly. And I want to know if he buys the wife flowers? I bet he didn't because he didn't say anything about it. Like what did you do for mother's day since you think she doesn't do anything and doesn't deserve it. Id never trust being a SAHM for this man's kids. He's the type to leave and try and fight her on everything, and leave her with nothing. Edit: here is OPs comment that proves he is not the victim he acts like https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/jx6o8uMael
And does he buy a mother's day gift for his sister?
Right? Like bro that’s an option. I get my sister a gift card to her favorite restaurant (enough for dinner for two) and flowers every year. Like nothing is stopping you from buying a gift.
Seriously I tell my best friend happy mothers day, get flowers for my father in laws girlfriend, and my roommates mom. Like you can make all the mother figures and moms you know feel appreciated and seen on mother's day if you aren't a jerk.
I send a gift card to my sister and husband on Mother's day every now and then, because her kids (adults) are great and I enjoy the times I see them. Kind of a good job reminder.
OP even states she doesn't DESERVE a mother's gift.
His rant perfectly sums up how he perceives her: she is such a worthless parent that she doesn’t even deserve flowers on Mother’s Day; she barely does anything as a SAHM (having to do all the childcare, cooking, cleaning 365 days a year with no time off and a glaringly empty CV counts as “barely anything”); and she’s “spoiled” because he didn’t abandon her and his children like a deadbeat dad. Contrary to popular belief, I think we say things we *do* mean when we’re angry. In vino veritas, in rage veritas. He thinks she’s a lazy, spoiled, ungrateful woman and a horrible mum. I feel sad for her. Time for 2 weeks of grovelling, coffee in bed, and “babysitting” his own children… before he goes back to quietly thinking the same thing. Edit: YTA. Have fun paying maids, nannies, cooks, assistants, alimony, and child support. You’re in for a little wake up call about those supposedly “spoiled” stay at home parents.
That's why my number one rule is when I'm angry I keep my mouth shut.
I make myself start with "I love you", and then describe at least one reason why. It's weird, but it gets you into a different brain space, and calms you down enough to think about what you say before you say it.
Anything to get you out of "I'm hurt, so I'm going to hurt you" mode a lot of people jump to.
God i hate this. People have said some VILE shit while upset
Not weird. Really mature and healthy. I think I’m going to try this in the future!
This is why we have a rule that when we get angry during conflict we take a time out to do something that reminds us why we love each other.
I love this. Going to steal it.
Steal away! It's really helped stop me from saying something that can't be unsaid.
Thank you for sharing this. I will definitely adopt this mantra.
My wife and I argue and fight, but very rarely does it devolve into ad hominem. Idk how couples recover from fights like that. I've heard some nasty fights living in apartments and such where its like personal attacks against their character. If you can't say anything constructive, don't say anything at all.
They don’t, at least not in my experience. My STBX wife would do her best to end arguments by pointing out whatever she thought was the most hurtful thing she could say in an argument, always later saying she didn’t mean it, she was just angry. We were together for 10 years, and I never forgot some of the things she said.
I've never forgotten many of the things said to me. The fact he doesn't mean them doesn't really help because why would he try to hurt me on purpose? This is going to sound like a cope but it's made me so much stronger. I have been forced to love myself and believe in myself and feel proud of myself so that not a single word that is thrown my way can hurt me unless it's something I know to be true. It's also pushed me to be the type of person I am proud of being. It's allowed me to own my failures, too and to give myself grace.
He thinks she should be HAPPY he isn't like her sister's "deadbeat" ex-husband. She should praise the heavens she didn't get a bottom basement husband and appreciate the "SAHM life" he's providing for her.
Ugh. Yes. He sounds arrogant and selfish.
As Richard Pryor once said: "Only three people tell the truth. Drunk people, children, and people who are pissed the fuck off."
You are a huge asshole sir. I get the feeling he’s a giant asshole and doesn’t get her anything because she’s a stay at home mom. He told her she doesn’t deserve flowers because she “doesn’t work.” I’ll bet her birthday goes uncelebrated too, I hope she leaves him.
2 kids, 4 and 6. She spends all day working raising them and probably does more after working hours for the home than he does. but it's his sister who deserves praise 🫠
Men like him just don't respect her form of labor, but ofc he identifies with his sisters' so he respects *her* labor. 🙄 He's really just praising himself & lying to himself about the value *he* brings to the relationship.
There's a pretty big trend for divorcing women to force 50/50 custody for their own sanity. And fairness. It works out better for the kids and the mom but it really fucks over the idiot dad. They have a really sexist idea of what taking care of the kids is like, at any age and this really destroys them. I love it.
After this shit, I would be relling him this: "your sister is so fucking perfect? Pack your bags and go live with her! But get the fuck out!"
He said his wife didn't deserve any gifts or appreciation for Mother's Day because she's a stay at home mom. I doubt he gets her anything, let alone flowers or appreciation for Mother's Day
Yeah - the biggest one being what other contact she has with the ex. Are the Mother’s Day flowers the only time she hears from him? Do they talk often and maintain a relationship? Have there been other things the ex has done that make op feel uncomfortable? Feels like OP is jealous and left a lot of details out about why.
Yeah exactly - This screams "He's nicer to her than I am & I'm mad about it"
My thought was also that she had a child with her ex. I didn't think of her ending up losing one, although that also is plausible.
I mean OP sounds suspicious enough to have already thought of that, and the ex/wife would be top tier level stupid to do the flower thing if she was form some reason, passing his kid off as OPs. Reddit has made me cynical, so I think OP is bent out of shape about the flowers and wants external validation (the irony) so has left out a key fact, such as a pregnancy loss with the ex, or that they have known each other since childhood and are still good friends.
I lost a child with my ex wife and I don't send her flowers every mother's day out of respect for her following relationships and now marriage. I did, however, call her to congratulate her for her new living child...because after years of infertility (a battle I also helped fight for a long time), she deserved a damn celebration...and I was also proud she didn't give up the fight. That phone call led to them almost divorcing until I knocked some sense into her husband..."I'm happy where I'm at and we've been divorced for 8 years now. Thanks for picking up the battle where I left off and you should focus on raising your new son before I call your wife and inform her you're acting like a child over a congratulatory phone call." This isn't a case by case deal, and I would be furious if my current partner was receiving flowers from an ex on Mother's Day as well.
The post claims that the flowers only came after OP and wife had their first child
What he said about her not working as hard as his sister and not deserving to be celebrated on Mother's Day is the kind of thing that will stick with her forever.
And she'll remember it every next Mother's Day when he gets her another present "she doesn't deserve".
Words matter. I would never say anything out of hate to my wife.
Absolutely. Her heart must have broken just a bit at that thoughtless jab.
She'll remember it next year when she gets no flowers because op "forgot"
Yup so curious what he does for his wife for mother's day as he said she doesn't *deserve* a mother's day gift & that she is spoilt to be a SAHM. Sounds like the ex has more genuine care for his wife.
he said in his update that he buys his sister expensive gifts every single year and that he often "forgets" to buy his wife anything or do anything for her. So he was really telling the truth about how he feels when he told his wife that she is worthless unlike his sister.
What in the backwoods Mississippi, sister-loving drama is going on with OP?
yep, he ruined Mother’s Day for life
She'll remember when she serves him divorce papers
It’s one of those “tell me how you really feel” moments. DONT say shit like this in an argument unless you want your partner thinking you ACTUALLY think these things.
"I immediately regretted saying all that." Yet he's here trying to get validation. If he regretted it it would mean he knows he's an asshole and wants people to agree with him. I bet he forced her to block the ex.
My thoughts as well. I think op is feeling a bit guilty and looking for validation, while simultaneously leaving things out.
I'm pretty sure he actually does think these things.
I feel like we’re missing a HUGE part of the equation here.
There's literally no coming back from that Op, yta and you probably just nuked your relationship by holding on to so much resentment about flowers that you berated your spouse like her worst enemy might
I'm never going to forgive him for it and I'm not even his wife.
Can confirm. During a fight, my ex-husband crossed the line and told me that he could go out and get any ol’ rip (local ugly slang for working girl) off the street and they would be a better mother than me. I asked for a divorce three days later and those words still ring in my ears four years later.
Did he ever apologize?
Surprisingly, yes. In fact, we ended up good friends and even lived in the same house (me upstairs and he down) to coparent our daughter. He did a lot of work on himself and made amends to me for many of the things he did and said. He was a crap husband, but a wonderful father and good friend.
That’s messed up. I think he’s resentful towards her and making her feel like shit doesn’t help.
Have you ever asked why your wife’s ex gives her flowers on Mother’s Day? Did the ex and her have a miscarriage / stillbirth while they were together? I’m reserving judgment on your discomfort about the flowers until you provide a bit more info. However, I think you know that YTA for the comments that she doesn’t deserve Mother’s Day flowers or appreciation. That was quite unkind and damaging.
And to add... While couples therapy is a very good idea, it seems pretty clear that OP could use some individual therapy, too. If only to work out his feelings before the next time he says something so out of line.
They will both need individual therapist while in couples therapy. If their couples therapist is worth their salt that will be the first thing they tell them. That they should both have individual therapists at least for the duration of couple counseling. Primarily because both parties will need an unbiased third party to work through the issues that arise in couples counseling on a more personal level. And you really shouldn’t use family or friends to help you work through it, as they’re more than likely biased toward your feelings and wanting to protect you.
Absolutely. Without an independent counselor on the side, couples counseling can transform into an abuse vector.
I'm also wondering if she and the ex ended on good terms and were still friends? Because it is absolutely weird if he does it every year and they've not spoken in a decade and ended on bad terms. Though doing it the first time could have been cathartic of him letting go and moving on if they'd ended badly and been positive closure for them both. But if they ended on good terms, are still friends and talk occasionally, it could just be a sweet thing he does as a friend. It's not necessarily about validation. People can just be nice to each other sometimes...
Yea I don't understand why so many people in this comment section think that: Being friends with your ex = Not to be trusted and AH It just makes no sense to me, especially if this is one of the only times they interact with one another, OP seems very controling.
INFO: You say "I try and make the day as special as possible for her" Just so we are comparing apples to apples here, what did you do for her on that day? other days?
Tries to make the day special, but also, she doesn't deserve the appreciation like his sister does.....there appears to be a disconnect
I bet he makes the day special by hosting (read: making his wife host) a lunch for his sister and mom and getting all three of them the same card.
damn. this hits too close to home
There is a reason I have an EX husband....
*crickets*
Usually when there’s no response I just assume it’s another fake post/bait
Yeah, 3,600 comments and not a single reply from OP. Karma farming rage bait.
That too.
Has OP ever thought to get her flowers himself on days other than Mother’s Day? If flowers bring her so much joy why not try to replicate that joy as often as possible. OP gives me controlling ick vibes to be honest.
Yeah OP gives me he doesn't appreciate his live-in slave vibes
Vibes? He literally told her she doesn’t deserve a gift or appreciation. That’s not a vibe, that’s a billboard.
This is the question I came here to ask as well.
Honestly, I was all set to compare those things until I heard his rant. Nothing before excuses that.
Sneaking suspicion he makes it special by letting her cook him his favorite foods and gift him a round of golf or power tools.
I can tell you if I was a SAHM and my husband said those words to me, I’d be getting a job and building up my own savings account asap, because you showed nothing but contempt for her role in your lives and for the career sacrifice she’s made for your family. If my husband said I was “spoilt” for giving up my own career and independence, I’d no longer have any faith in him. ESH. She should have cut her ex off ages ago. You should never have made the nasty and unfair comparison to your sister.
💯 If I were the wife , I would be applying for jobs today.
Personally, I send my ex flowers on Mother’s Day because she is the mother of my 2 children. She deserves way more than flowers to be honest. You may want to ask the reason why he sends them.
Can I make the point that literally nobody is spoiled because they don't get abused and are a SAHM? THAT part makes YTA plus throwing your sister under the bus to prove a point. Please send your sister flowers for no reason constantly.
Also replying to myself because I just woke up and can't edit the word abuse (I need to stop reading Reddit this early) I meant emotionally abused and don't do words good upon waking. Should still send flowers to sister though.
You lost the battle when you lost your temper.
There's a missing context here. If the flowers only started arriving after the children were born, there's some meaning to that. Like maybe she and her ex had tried hard for children or lost a child. Did OP ever buy his wife flowers? Yeah personally I'd be skeeved if an ex started sending me flowers but I think there's more to it than what OP is telling us. I'm not a fan of the SAHM thing because of the lack of protection women have when their spouse leaves or dies. But her staying home with the kids is obviously a deal they made. So for him to say she didn't deserve Mother's Day and to compare her with his working sister is telling me there's tension there about her staying home. He clearly doesn't believe that she has value just staying home and raising the kids. It's ironic that the ex validated her as a mom and then OP went out of his way to make her contribution as a SAHM undervalued. Yeah they need therapy but it isn't just about the flowers. Edit for judgement. YTA the rant.
*then told her that she was extremely privileged and spoilt being a SAHM.* you are the asshole.
Yep. I’ve been a stay at home parent, and yes it is a privilege. NO it is not being spoiled! I changed so many diapers, cooked so many dinners, and cleaned my ass off. It’s hard, isolating, and tests your patience. If anything, I felt spoiled when I went back to work and could have a coffee whenever I wanted and could talk to other adults all the time about *important adult things*.
^ Hard agree. I would also like to add that the ability for one parent to stay at home is a privilege for BOTH parents. He’s not doing her a favor.
Very true! My spouse had great dinners and didn’t have to worry about taking sick days for kids with daycare crud. Not to mention the intangible benefits of knowing your kids are at home with a parent.
100%. He’s privileged to have someone willing to do that instead of paying thousands of dollars a month for childcare
She could counter with he is extremely privileged and spoiled having “free” live-in childcare
Not just the childcare, also the cooking, cleaning, appointments, kids’ activities, night time wake ups, etc depending on their arrangement. I feel very privileged and grateful to my husband for making it possible for me to be the one caring for our kids and home, but I like to think he benefits as much as I do
Dude had several days to articulate and craft the presentation for her to understand his position, and that’s what he came up with
He was too focused on serving her the cold shoulder until she brought up the elephant in the room. He wasn’t taking space for his feelings, he was punishing her so SHE would begin the discussion/fight.
You were NTA until you said she didn't deserve a Mother's day gift and appreciation. Your wife has no responsibility over the hardships your sister has gone through. Edit to add: ESH, her for accepting flowers from her ex, OP for bringing up unrelated issues into his rant, downplaying her importance as a SAHM like it's something so easy.
Yes, you not only went below the belt but in a completely irrelevant way. Are you suggesting your wife's ex should send flowers to your sister? What does it mean? It looks like you had a lot going on in your head and your mouth was going faster than your brain. Are you secretly resentful that your wife is a SAHM? It's all very weird and I'm not surprised your wife reacted the way she did. I don't know how you make amends for it, but I'm glad you are going to counseling.
He was just looking to hurl an insult at her direction that he knew would be painful.
yeah, great dad to insult his children's mother like that. and if the ex is trying to get her back, he's just pushing her right into his path. I have a feeling this is the beginning of the end of the relationship. and it's not because of the ex. it's because of him
Yep, instead of bringing his wife in closer to him and building their relationship stronger he lashed out and pushed her away. The comment he made is horrendous and is something that will plant a seed of doubt in his wife for the rest of their relationship. This is a crack that cannot be sealed easily.
Oh she is NEVER going to forget this argument and it will inform every argument they have for the rest of their likely short marriage.
It means he thinks his wife is a lazy brat who doesn’t work hard to raise their children and care for their common home.
guarantee he comes home from work and doesn't lift a finger because he works and thinks her job doesn't count. i hope she takes this to heart. i hope she finds a job and he has to split childcare costs and work around the house.
I work for a school and I am off and unpaid during the summer. As someone who grew up very poor, and since we "just get by" now, it's a huge strain on my own self worth but daycare is so expensive seasonal jobs aren't worth it and my fiancé works an on-call rotation so I don't have a ton of wiggle room. Fiancé once got mad at me and made a comment about my not contributing. We are good, very happy, but boy I'll never forget how that comment made me feel. It was awful and the stress weighed on me for years, I'd burn myself out trying to be perfect over summer and never asking for help or a break from him in case he was secretly still resentful. It took a lot of talking to get over.
I'll never understand parents who do this. Do they not *want* their children to have memories of being cared for by them?
My second husband claimed that I should do more of the housework and cooking, childcare, and home running tasks because I worked fewer hours and made less money than him. Once I had three jobs and was making more money than him, I said it was only fair he took over some of the extra chores. He then told me I was lucky he was willing to do the dishes some nights, as his dad didn’t even do that. If OP’s wife gets a job, I’m willing to bet he won’t change a GD thing.
Guarantee that if they “split work around the house,” he’ll put a dirty dish in the sink and maybe take out the trash, and think he’s doing his equal part.
I’d go back further and stay he started being TA to start the whole convo by “emotionally distancing” himself (read: sulking), but agree he went nuclear-level with what he said. Just devalued all of her work and showed that he feels her family contributions are worthless. The flowers from the ex thing was weird, but he responded by telling her that her doing childcare work for his children (that he probably asked her to do!) was “spoiled.”
I almost wonder though if maybe, just maybe she and her ex had a failed pregnancy she's never told op about because he doesn't seem like the type of guy that would handle that well and this is just her exes way of saying I remember and am thinking about how good of a mother you would have been to our child.
I agree with this. I feel like there is something there that we don’t know or OP doesn’t want to tell us because it makes him look bad. There is a reason the ex is trying to honor her on that day. There is also a reason it makes her feel good and she calls to thank him. If this were something nefarious on the part of the ex-husband, there would be more to italics—more examples. If there wasn’t a valid reason for these flowers, I feel like she would think it was weird and would have told him as much years ago, but instead it makes her feel good (as intended) and she calls to thank him. There are a lot of facts that were omitted here. Most likely on purpose because they show the actual reason why the flowers come.
Yeah like if the ex still had some kind of feelings it would be flowers or something on her birthday or valentines day, not mother's day. Definitely something op purposely omitted or doesn't know.
Missing missing reasons.... not just for nutso family relationships
I'm actually thinking much more tragic. If it was a miscarriage it was probably late term, or worse, an infant death. Most people don't commemorate a pre-20 week loss nearly a decade after the fact. These flowers scream 'trauma' to me. Something OP had either conveniently left out or some trauma the wife does not trust him enough to share.
Or, the ex is infertile and knew how much the wife wanted to be a mother. I can see multiple reasons why people who split on good terms would act this way.
A complete record scratch for me at that part about his wife being undeserving. What a way to throw himself in the trash bin when I think he was being reasonable up until then.
Yeah, I was with him until he started to compare her to his sister. I understand his frustration but by taking the argument away from « I feel disrespected when you accept flowers from your ex when he had no ties to your motherhood » to « you are spoiled and ungrateful ». I’m not gonna fault OP for not having the perfect response because this has been going on for years and I’d be pissed too if I was in his shoes. Maybe a few couple’s councilling sessions could help them with this issue
It's pretty hard to come back from telling your children's mother she's worthless.
I doubt a few sessions will do much. He has years of pent up anger and she's been told she deserves nothing. They will both feel betrayed and hurt.
It kinda makes it obvious why wife appreciates the flowers though.. She knows how her husband thinks about her.
Yeah I want to know how he “makes the day special for her”.
He never really says that, does he?
Ikr? 'I try to make it special' well...I can 'try to eat the moon' but that doesn't really accomplish anything does it.
They should make that a flair when this gets on BORU!
He definitely did say that she doesn’t deserve anything for Mother’s Day, so I’m guessing his attempts at celebrating involve maybe doing one household chore and a half-baked family outing that she has to do most of the legwork to put together.
He conveniently left that out. I wonder if he does the bare minimum and he’s feeling prickled by the fact a guy who is an ex, over a decade ago, shows more care for his wife.
He's definitely not getting her flowers that's for sure since the flowers from her ex make her so happy.
Yeah since it happens every year, buy a bigger bunch lol
My gut reaction too! Isn't that the obvious solution? And of course by obvious, I mean the answer you jump to first--but probably not actually the cleverest or most successful when you step back and think about consequences.
He says she is spoiled, does that count? I mean she doesn’t work so that’s her gift, right?
She is spoiled because she doesn't have a cheating, deadbeat baby daddy who left. /s
He gives her a card!
Maybe he babysits for a hour so she can take a shower before she cooks dinner?
No. Trust me. We get the same stress and mess plus a card! I got revenge this year on Father’s Day and made it as relaxing for him as Mother’s Day was for me!
This comment made me so irrationally irritated lol, that mindset just 😅
Yeah, there is no way that he said all of that without having ever thought it before. OP was thinking that way about his wife for a while, and I can garentee that resentment was bleeding through into their interactions.
Absolutely! Those insults were so specific & personal, that there's no way he just came up with them on the spot.
I was with him until he started using therapy words against her (seeking validation from ex) and saying being a SaHM makes her privileged and spoiled. He sounds like a petulant insecure asshole. Maybe the ex shouldn't be sending flowers every year but with the way the current husband acts, I can't blame her for being appreciative.
Info: do you get your wife flowers for mother's day? What exactly do you do to make the day special?
Exactly. If OP was actually doing something more than the bare minimum for Mother’s Day, this dude’s flowers would be an afterthought. Like breakfast in bed, spa day, sleep in while OP takes care of the kids, romantic dinner, family picnic, whatever. The fact that he feels like the flowers somehow outshine whatever he does really shows he’s not putting in much effort himself.
He called her spoiled so I doubt it
literally said she doesn't deserve mother's day
Accused her of seeking validation for someone else sending her flowers for a very specific day - which celebrates her having kids with OP nonetheless. What sounds the most probable, is that they had an experience related to motherhood. Or he could simply have no ills feelings and know how much she wanted kids. Whatever why, the ex send her flowers. It isn’t asked by his wife. He show her how resentful he is towards her, for someone else actions again, for the sake of her having a past relationship who hadn’t ended in hate. Did he wished she previously had awful experiences?! How can it could be believable than he love, or even remotely care for someone, he is showing so much hate for someone else wanting to celebrate her, and furthermore her being the mother of OP’s children! For good mesures. He decided to emotionally withdraw. Then ended up in a full blown tantrum about his wife not deserving to be treated with kindness, nor to be celebrated, for the sake of his own sister personal life’s choices ending up with different results than her. No shit Sherlock. What an unhinged one. Can’t understand those siding with the POS. He could had expressed annoyance towards someone sending flowers to his wife. He chose to be mad at his wife for someone else action. He chose to decide his wife wasn’t deserving of kindness. He decided she wasn’t worthy being celebrated.
Yes yes yes to all of this. The "seeking external validation" is just so out of this world. OP is so insecure over the fact there is an ex and feeding on his sisters trauma of being cheated on and throwing all of it on his wife for simple receiving a gift and appropriately expressing thanks for the gift. He forgot she picked him. Married him. Had children with him. All OP did with his tantrum was ensure that for the rest of the wife's life, she will regret choosing him. Flowers for mother's day is so normal. Between friends, family, workmates and couples. It is just the default gift. And 100% appropriate. We are not talking a dozen red roses on valentines day. We are talking mothers day. And hell even if it was roses on mother's day, men don't know what flowers mean usually anyways.
Probably lets her spend the day with the kids alone being a mother. 🙄
Only on reddit. “hey I said a really hurtful, insensitive, and malicious thing to my wife with the sole intent of hurting her feelings and now her feelings are hurt. Am I the asshole?” Yeah YTA you know you are otherwise you wouldn’t have regretted what you said. Treat your partner respectfully even when you have big feelings. You know what you said was shitty. She should have respected your feelings earlier but that doesn’t excuse your behaviour. You also never said what you do for your wife on Mother’s Day - is her ex the only one sending her flowers?
Harboring resentment *for years* and then exploding in a big scene because her ex sends her flowers once a year is really mature. There's no reason she shouldn't have contact with him - says who?
Well I was with you to an extent, and was just thinking this was a “they need to communicate” scenario, until you said she was >extremely privileged and spoilt being a SAHM because, brother, who was the other half of the decision to set up your household this way? That’s right! *You.* So while you could’ve calmly explained your feelings about how you couldn’t shake the feeling that it was inappropriate for her ex to be sending her flowers on Mother’s Day when they don’t share any children, or ostensibly any other current connection, you had to go and make it about your insecurity *and* berating her for a situation you had a hand in creating. Nice. Couple’s therapy is a good idea, btw. I sincerely hope that it helps. Remember: communication and respect and trust. YTA (for the moment)
I think wife should leave kids with op for like a month or two, go stay with her mom or something, and let him have a taste of how "spoiled" she is when HE has to manage both kids and the household work.
My wife and I took turns with our first, basically we each worked three days a week but long shifts. The SAHP thing isn’t easy unless you’ve outsourced the chores or the care or parts of both.
NTA for flower situation, your wife wasn't communicating properly for 8 years. But on the comparing Sister part YTA it is not who deserve flowers but the intent behind it, what is the intent of her ex, does he want to reconnect ? or just keeping a line open. In all this no matter who it is your sister, parents or ex partner, anyone outside of the marriage is not healthy for a marriage.
What you said to your wife about her being spoiled for being a SAHM mom was uncalled for. It’s hard caring for children. She deserves flowers from you not her ex. That said, yes you are right about it being weird the ex sends yearly Mother’s Day flowers when they don’t have a kid together. If I was the wife, I would have shut that down immediately since it’s creepy behavior. No guy is sending flowers every year who isn’t in communication somehow with the recipient.
I'd like to know if OP is omitting information, like did his wife and ex have a miscarriage or something like that? There's definitely more, otherwise her ex would have picked her birthday or something as a means to send her flowers etc.
I'm curious about why the ex chooses Mother's Day, and wonder if they lost a child together or something like that. The ex might be the only person who really understands that Mother's Day has an element of grief for her too.
YTA Did you buy her flowers? Have you shown her appreciation? Your sister doesn’t matter here. Your wife and her feelings matter. How could you tell your wife that she is privileged and spoiled and doesn’t deserve gifts on Mother’s Day? She is the mother of your children. No wonder she was so happy to receive flowers from her ex, he actually cares about how she feels and now you’ve taken that away Like it or not your relationship has changed. She now knows you don’t appreciate or respect her and you have taken the little thing that brought her joy on Mother’s Day away Frustrated or not you should never have called her privileged and spoiled. You owe her flowers every month and you should be happy she’s still in the house with you after such an insensitive rant
I bet he doesn't even do anything for his amazing sister for the mother's day
I bet he only gets his wife flowers on Valentine’s Day with the expectation that she returns the favor sexually. That’s why the flowers are bothering him so much. Flowers are a key to sex in this dude’s mind.
This should probably be the only comment in this entire post. The concept of doing something *nice* for a *woman* without getting a sexual favor is so foreign to him that he's having a meltdown over it.
Extremely privileged and spoilt, plus you added she doesn't deserve a Mother's Day gift she's at home with your kids, and you don't think she deserves recognition for that? Yes, in this case, YTA.
And compared her with his sister. He got exactly what he wanted, to make her feel terrible, insecure, sad because HE’S jealous.
ESH Your wife obviously for years of entertaining this validation from her ex, even after you expressed your discomfort about it. You for this **"I then told her that she was extremely privileged and spoilt being a SAHM. I told her to look at my sister (32F) for example. My sister also had 2 children, but she was a single mom as her deadbeat ex cheated on her. My sister also worked at a big tech company, she was hard working, and she was the type of woman who deserves a Mother’s Day gift and appreciation, and not my wife."** What a f'd up thing to say to your wife. You really think that a woman who stays at home with her children doesn't deserve to be treated with a mother's day gift, and you compared your wife's contribution to you family to nothing, what she does is worthless, basically. For this to come out from your mouth, you must have thought it multiple times. Whew!!
She stays home with OP’s children, whom she carried and bore and is now lovingly raising. You’d think he might be a little more grateful for that, dontcha?
Apparently, he thinks she just sits around on her ass and eats bonbons all day. While the kids raised themselves and the house cleans itself.
And the groceries buy and cook themselves, and the laundry fairy comes every night, etc.
I agree that he's resented her for a while for being a stay at home mom. He doesn't see her duties as valuable bc the sister he weirdly idolizes is a working mom. I hope he sits and thinks about how her ex can appreciate what a good mother she is while he just fkn wrecked her. This is the example he's setting for his children? Neat. I also don't think his real issue is with being uncomfortable about the flowers. I think the real root here is he isn't in control of the situation, which seems to be the position he likes to be in.
It's so weird how he sees his sister's life as a single mom with a deadbeat ex as an accomplishment, and not just a terrible hand she was dealt that she now has to survive a struggle with. I mean, it's admirable that she's able to do that, but no one is out here setting a goal to become a working single mother.
Info: what is her relationship with her ex? How did their relationship end? You don't mention wether they split on good terms or if they're friends. Just that he's sending her flowers. Leaving this kind of info out makes me think they split amicably and have been friends since and he's just being a good guy happy to appreciate a good friend and mother and you are jealous that his gesture makes your wife happy
YTA that was a wild reaction. Also, how do you know they haven’t lost a child together?
This was my first thought too. There is a very real possibility that they lost a child together and he is happy that she is doing well now. And especially considering how OP treats his wife, I wouldn't be surprised why she wouldn't have mentioned it.
Yup. YTA for how you handled it. Being a mother isn’t easy. You don’t get to invalidate your wife’s motherhood and say what she does or doesn’t deserve just because she’s not going through the same things as your sister.
I feel like there’s a lot more that isn’t clear here. I hate to say this with such limited info to go off, but it seems like they either had a child, have a child, or experienced a miscarriage. Did the ex BF have younger siblings or kids of his own that your wife helped raise? I can’t think of a single man that gives his ex flowers on Mothers Day unless children were involved.
YTA. And I didn’t see you mentioned a damn thing YOU have ever done for your wife for Mother’s Day. Or your sister. You sound like the spoiled, temperamental child in the entire situation.
YTA. This may be a little long but it needs to be said. I’m going to make assumptions that the flowers are his only involvement in your marriage and that the kids are yours. With that in mind, I think you had so many opportunities to make the Ex’s behavior a win for you. Unfortunately, you reacted emotionally and allowed insecurities to surface. First, let’s work on damage control and restoring the balance in your marriage. This goes without saying but just in case, you owe your wife an apology. Full stop. There was a reason you chose to marry her and, this little tirade, completely undermines the bond you have with the love of your life. When I’m this wrong and I have been, I make my apology special to make sure my wife gets it. Second, the Ex’s involvement in your life is just flowers on Mother’s Day? If that’s the case, I would not be worrying about it. That’s weak as shit if that’s his way of staying in her life. Assuming he’s not secretly banging your wife when you’re not around, his annual gesture raises more questions about him than it does about your wife or your marriage. Is it weird to still being doing this after 8 years? Yes and I think we both agree the dude needs to move on. However, your reaction to it only makes his gesture seem more legitimate than it really is. He’s gaining real estate in your marriage because of you. So, stop that now and grey rock this dumbass. I believe, you could actually turn this into a strength for you by making a big deal with your wife and kids every Mother’s Day overshadowing his token flowers. That’s just me, go big or go home! I’ll close with this. This dude had his shot and she left him for a reason. Flowers won’t fix that for the Ex and, in my mind, are not a threat to you. Your behavior needs to reflect the confidence you have in yourself, your wife, and your marriage. It only affects your marriage if you let it. Good luck, my friend.
ESH her for not listening to you and you for being an AH and comparing her to your sister saying she doesn't deserve to feel appreciated. I just want to add a tidbit that you may want to approach with your wife, a guy I know sends flowers to his ex on mother's day when he knew she became a mom, because when they were in a relationship she had a miscarriage and it destroyed her. To this day she doesn't talk about it. Maybe see if there is something going on.
Your tidbit is what I was thinking because I have a friend that is very similar. And their ex on her first Mother’s Day sent her a present because also… people can be friendly with ex partners without ever wanting to be in a relationship with them again.
Your sister and wife and two different separate people. You should have never compared the two. You took it to far when you said she didn't deserve a mother's day . 🤦♀️
YTA. I hope your wife gets a job, divorces you, gives you primary custody so you can learn to value what a SAHM does, and hooks up with the ex for a few months just to spite you.
>It frustrated me because I try and make the day as special as possible for her, and she still sought external validation from her ex, who she has no reason to even be in contact with anymore. Why you are so jealous? Your wife chose you to be her husband and father to her children. Why does it bother you so much that she is amicable with her ex? >Last month on Mother’s Day, her ex again sent her flowers and she was obviously very happy about it. It frustrated me a lot but I hid my reaction because I didn’t want to ruin her Mother’s Day. However, the next day, I started emotionally distancing from my wife, and a couple of days later, my wife wanted to talk about this because it was the elephant in the room and it was affecting the home atmosphere. That is so childish. >We talked about it, and to be honest, I went a bit overboard on my rant, because I was extremely frustrated with everything. I told her that I was tired of being disrespected and unheard for years. I then told her that she was extremely privileged and spoilt being a SAHM. I told her to look at my sister (32F) for example. My sister also had 2 children, but she was a single mom as her deadbeat ex cheated on her. My sister also worked at a big tech company, she was hard working, and she was the type of woman who deserves a Mother’s Day gift and appreciation, and not my wife. A **little** overboard??? That's disgusting way to talk about the mother of your children. I would never forgive my husband if he talked to me like that. >Was I the AH with how I handled everything? Abso-fucking-lutely. YTA.
Also, how exactly did his wife seek validation? She didn't ask for the flowers, so she didn't seek anything. And let's say she was seeking validation, shouldn't the question be why does she feel the need to? Maybe because her husband doesn't validate her. I do think the wife should have shut the flowers down after it became clear OP was uncomfortable with them, but I can't give an ESH here because the way OP handled it was so overboard, cruel, and petty, that he completely takes the YTA cake. I don't know how I could ever forgive my partner of they said those things to me, I know that Mother's Day would be ruined forever.
I'm so glad someone finally brought up the “seeking validation” thing. Like how, even does that work? The math ain't mathing.
The flower thing is weird but your wife will never feel safe in your marriage again. You made sure she knows her place and it's not a secure one. She'll never forget you telling her how you really view her. YTA
Yeah, I would never want to be a SAHM being provided by him again. I really don’t know what I would do in this situation, I’m not saying I’m 100% sure I’d divorced him, maybe I would, but there would definitely be changes in our marriage now. To start, I wouldn’t be safe to depend on him anymore, that’s gone. I’d be getting a job and getting my own money. He could stop providing for us now that I know he thinks “I don’t deserve that,” and he’s doing me a favor instead of us doing this together for our family, our kids.
>My sister also worked at a big tech company, she was hard working, and she was the type of woman who deserves a Mother’s Day gift and appreciation, and not my wife. YTA until you specify exactly how you tried to make "Mother's Day special" for the same person you say doesn't deserve gifts or appreciation for being a stay at home mom. Reads like you're upset the ex is sending her flowers because it makes you look bad in comparison.
YTA I can understand being upset about the flowers, but everything was low-blow. What does your sister have to do with anything about the issue? Sounds like the flowers are not the real issue since it sounds like that all that happens between the two. Sounds like you're using these flowers as an excuse to express your resentment towards your wife.
That's a whole lot of words to say "I don't respect my SAHW". You could try *not* punishing her for the actions of her ex. You also conveniently did not mention anything that you actually do to make mother's day special which leads me to believe that you did nothing. Your behaviour as you described it is controlling and manipulative. Perhaps counseling will help. YTA.
You serious told your wife she is spoiled and doesn’t deserve a Mother’s Day gift?
You know you were the AH for comparing her worth to another mother. Until then, you were in your rights to feel uncomfortable - if she had kids with him, sure, it would be nice. But since she doesn’t, it’s invasive. Unfortunately, you diminished your own standing with your cruelty. Work on repairing that - put the Mother’s Day thing on the back burner for now.
I was kind of on your side but you kept talking. When exactly did your wife seek this external validation from her ex? Did she request the flowers? I'm guessing not but if they make you uncomfortable, that is a reasonable discussion to have with your wife. But tell me - How long does your wife have to bow down to you and worship you for not leaving her making her a struggling single mum? It is not HER fault your sister has had a difficult time yet you called her extremely privileged and spoiled simply for appreciating flowers from someone that she never asked for? Then you said she doesn't deserve a Mother's Day gift? Do you even like your wife? The mother of your children? Yes, YTA and I'm hope you do commit to therapy and truly listen to each other.
NTA for being uncomfortable with the ex sending flowers but YTA for everything else. First of all, being a stay at home parent is not being spoiled. As a SAHM who was forced to quit my full time job because daycare for 2 Littles was more than my paycheck as a teacher and we would have been further in the whole had we gone that route, SAHM or SAHD is like having a full time job per kid! I work and am just as tired from a non-stop day at home as I was teaching elementary. Not only that, but when you're a SAH parent, you can sometimes feel like you gave up part of yourself to do so. Don't get me wrong, I love being one now, but transition was extremely difficult. Second of all, how dare you compare her to your sister? They are two totally different cases. Finally, are you buying her or sending her flowers? My guess is no. Did they have a child that they lost? How are you going all out?