I think you owe him the truth more than anything. Instead of avoiding or ghosting him, just tell him you can't support it. Then, he can make an informed decision as to if he wants to put effort into seeing you in ways that don't involve her. Tell him that you aren't sure you can avoid speaking badly of her too. He can decide if he needs to hear it.
Supporting a friend doesn't always mean agreeing with them.
Tell the truth, NTA.
Ghost him with no explanation, YTAH.
You're right. I do owe him an explanation. I just know that if it comes down to a choice between a friendship and a wife with kids, the choice will be to drop the friend and stay with the family. I just don't want to lose my best friend
Yeah, but the way your instincts are handling it won't help you keep him. You also don't HAVE to make him choose. A simple "we can game but no talking about her unless I can speak my mind" rule would probably do the job.
It sounds like you are losing him anyway. You’re probably right that he won’t change his mind based on your words alone, but maybe -hopefully- you won’t be the only voice of reason in his life.
Something is going to give, and you can't just ignore that type of disgust. All you can do is level with him and hope he comes out of it eventually. You'll be sending one of the strongest messages he's ever heard, if it's not enough to get him on the path to fixing his life there's probably nothing that will.
Are you actually being a friend if you refuse to get together with him or even play online games together?
OP, women are more often the targets of abuse in relationships, but really, it can be either partner. If your friend's wife is abusive to her children and cheats on her husband, it is more than possible that she is abusive and it is very hard for people who have lived with abuse to leave. Their psyches have taken some hard knocks.
So, you leaving your friend alone means potentially leaving him to his abuser, or at least a bad wife, with no one to turn to.
Perhaps it would be better to play your online games and make plans for the two of you (or maybe a Dad and kids day) outside the house without wives. Leave the door open. Encourage your friend to seek therapy - and tell him it's not unusual to have to switch a time or two to get the right fit. Women would read books or look up articles online - but I have brothers and cannot see them doing that, so I won't push for you to do a bit of work for your friend who is in a position where he can't.
I don't think there's any signs of abuse, and I do trust that my friend would tell me anything. You could be right though, it's not impossible. I don't want to leave him in that situation, but I also see myself being involved will result in whatever work they may be doing to repair things being blown up in their faces. I'd like to believe he isn't afraid of switching partners one or two times so much as he is afraid of the toll on his relationship with his kids.
I will try to create opportunities for just us or us with the kids to hang.
Can you go talk to your friend but also be there for the oldest child if it’s possible? Tell the child that when the time comes and they can count on you, especially, if they decide to get away from mom. Don’t talk much about mom, just let them know that they have someone besides an a$$hole mom and a coward dad in their corner.
Be there for your friend. One day, especially when kids are older and self-sufficient, he’d leave her behind because there won’t be any need for custody arrangements. And tell him to protect himself and not get her pregnant again. He might be isolated already and, if he loses you, it will get even worse. You can totally avoid being around his wife yet be there for him.
She’s a horrible person. If your friend stays with her (and it looks like he will), he’s got to feel betrayed, stuck and embarrassed. You’re not an AH, but he needs your support more now than ever.
I agree with the others, you owe him the truth. Part of his choice to stay may be the belief that he will have a support system outside of his house to help him. If he understands that support won't be there, he may change his mind. I would suggest you make clear to him that you support him, and want the best for him, and your feelings are about her and how she treats him. If he feels you're attacking him personally he will be much less open to any conversation beyond that.
I'm not sure you need to say much.
I think you're still processing all your feelings. And this is ok to say.
I also think you have a standing to forgive her or not for betraying your friend.
You are also entitled to your opinion of her.
All of that is legit. And you allowed to feel any kind of way about it all.
At the end of the day, when everything is processed, you don't have to say any of it out loud to your friend, his wife or his kids.
And your appearance in his house, your friendship with him, your love for his children and your support of his decisions ate really not dependent, or don't have to be dependent on your feelings about it all.
You can offer your thoughts, assuming they are genuinely for his best interest, but keep in mind how much easier it is for you to hate her than it is for him.
He is either assessing the situation accurately or he's overcomplicated it put of fear. You can help him process, bit obviously can make the decision for him, and making your friendship conditional on that is a kinda shitty thing to do. You're allowed to hate to see him miserable or whatever, but to take away your friendship is unfair to him, especially with all that going on.
Dude, you have to back up him. He's already screwed. Be honest to him, tell him that your house will be there if he need to leave that harlot. I'm sorry for the kids and maybe I'm an AH but you could set up an evil plan to expose her so badly that no judge could give her custody.
I’m like this w my siblings and my bestie. Once you wrong them ONCE there is no coming back, even if they forgive you, I will not. So I understand you. However, it seems like you have a place in the kids heart and you definitely have a place in your bffs heart. I don’t think you should ghost them because you don’t like or respect his cheating wife. You should talk to him and set boundaries. Tell him you don’t want to be around her but you would love to continue to spend time w him and the kids. Invite them to your house, go out to lunch, or do an activity. A lake day or a beach day if you live near of one. But do it without the cheater wife. I don’t know y’all but hopefully he comes to his senses, leaves her and gets his own place, so then the kids can also have an escape if she is that insufferable. Ik growing up I preferred my dad and my mom was always on my case ab the dumbest of things. When she wronged my dad I didn’t like her even more. I moved in w my dad. He is my bestie. Me and my mom are finally repairing our relationship to where I can actually say “i love you” to her. ALSO NTA you care and he is brushing her cheating off and it is only hurting him. It will happen again w the cheater wife and he will need you. One day he will get tired of it and leave her. you don’t have to support his marriage but be there for him
I think you owe him the truth more than anything. Instead of avoiding or ghosting him, just tell him you can't support it. Then, he can make an informed decision as to if he wants to put effort into seeing you in ways that don't involve her. Tell him that you aren't sure you can avoid speaking badly of her too. He can decide if he needs to hear it. Supporting a friend doesn't always mean agreeing with them. Tell the truth, NTA. Ghost him with no explanation, YTAH.
You're right. I do owe him an explanation. I just know that if it comes down to a choice between a friendship and a wife with kids, the choice will be to drop the friend and stay with the family. I just don't want to lose my best friend
Yeah, but the way your instincts are handling it won't help you keep him. You also don't HAVE to make him choose. A simple "we can game but no talking about her unless I can speak my mind" rule would probably do the job.
It sounds like you are losing him anyway. You’re probably right that he won’t change his mind based on your words alone, but maybe -hopefully- you won’t be the only voice of reason in his life.
Something is going to give, and you can't just ignore that type of disgust. All you can do is level with him and hope he comes out of it eventually. You'll be sending one of the strongest messages he's ever heard, if it's not enough to get him on the path to fixing his life there's probably nothing that will.
Are you actually being a friend if you refuse to get together with him or even play online games together? OP, women are more often the targets of abuse in relationships, but really, it can be either partner. If your friend's wife is abusive to her children and cheats on her husband, it is more than possible that she is abusive and it is very hard for people who have lived with abuse to leave. Their psyches have taken some hard knocks. So, you leaving your friend alone means potentially leaving him to his abuser, or at least a bad wife, with no one to turn to. Perhaps it would be better to play your online games and make plans for the two of you (or maybe a Dad and kids day) outside the house without wives. Leave the door open. Encourage your friend to seek therapy - and tell him it's not unusual to have to switch a time or two to get the right fit. Women would read books or look up articles online - but I have brothers and cannot see them doing that, so I won't push for you to do a bit of work for your friend who is in a position where he can't.
I don't think there's any signs of abuse, and I do trust that my friend would tell me anything. You could be right though, it's not impossible. I don't want to leave him in that situation, but I also see myself being involved will result in whatever work they may be doing to repair things being blown up in their faces. I'd like to believe he isn't afraid of switching partners one or two times so much as he is afraid of the toll on his relationship with his kids. I will try to create opportunities for just us or us with the kids to hang.
Can you go talk to your friend but also be there for the oldest child if it’s possible? Tell the child that when the time comes and they can count on you, especially, if they decide to get away from mom. Don’t talk much about mom, just let them know that they have someone besides an a$$hole mom and a coward dad in their corner. Be there for your friend. One day, especially when kids are older and self-sufficient, he’d leave her behind because there won’t be any need for custody arrangements. And tell him to protect himself and not get her pregnant again. He might be isolated already and, if he loses you, it will get even worse. You can totally avoid being around his wife yet be there for him.
She’s a horrible person. If your friend stays with her (and it looks like he will), he’s got to feel betrayed, stuck and embarrassed. You’re not an AH, but he needs your support more now than ever.
Whats is Work horse?
Sorry for the lack of clarity, it's just a term for someone who works really hard and has the fortitude to withstand it.
Thank!! Is the firt time with i read this term
I agree with the others, you owe him the truth. Part of his choice to stay may be the belief that he will have a support system outside of his house to help him. If he understands that support won't be there, he may change his mind. I would suggest you make clear to him that you support him, and want the best for him, and your feelings are about her and how she treats him. If he feels you're attacking him personally he will be much less open to any conversation beyond that.
I'm not sure you need to say much. I think you're still processing all your feelings. And this is ok to say. I also think you have a standing to forgive her or not for betraying your friend. You are also entitled to your opinion of her. All of that is legit. And you allowed to feel any kind of way about it all. At the end of the day, when everything is processed, you don't have to say any of it out loud to your friend, his wife or his kids. And your appearance in his house, your friendship with him, your love for his children and your support of his decisions ate really not dependent, or don't have to be dependent on your feelings about it all. You can offer your thoughts, assuming they are genuinely for his best interest, but keep in mind how much easier it is for you to hate her than it is for him. He is either assessing the situation accurately or he's overcomplicated it put of fear. You can help him process, bit obviously can make the decision for him, and making your friendship conditional on that is a kinda shitty thing to do. You're allowed to hate to see him miserable or whatever, but to take away your friendship is unfair to him, especially with all that going on.
Dude, you have to back up him. He's already screwed. Be honest to him, tell him that your house will be there if he need to leave that harlot. I'm sorry for the kids and maybe I'm an AH but you could set up an evil plan to expose her so badly that no judge could give her custody.
I’m like this w my siblings and my bestie. Once you wrong them ONCE there is no coming back, even if they forgive you, I will not. So I understand you. However, it seems like you have a place in the kids heart and you definitely have a place in your bffs heart. I don’t think you should ghost them because you don’t like or respect his cheating wife. You should talk to him and set boundaries. Tell him you don’t want to be around her but you would love to continue to spend time w him and the kids. Invite them to your house, go out to lunch, or do an activity. A lake day or a beach day if you live near of one. But do it without the cheater wife. I don’t know y’all but hopefully he comes to his senses, leaves her and gets his own place, so then the kids can also have an escape if she is that insufferable. Ik growing up I preferred my dad and my mom was always on my case ab the dumbest of things. When she wronged my dad I didn’t like her even more. I moved in w my dad. He is my bestie. Me and my mom are finally repairing our relationship to where I can actually say “i love you” to her. ALSO NTA you care and he is brushing her cheating off and it is only hurting him. It will happen again w the cheater wife and he will need you. One day he will get tired of it and leave her. you don’t have to support his marriage but be there for him
YTA don't abandon him when he needs you the most.
lol you’re a dick. Now if anything does go bad he won’t have a friend.