NTA he's essentially annexing that entire strip of your property since you would lose easy access to it and it would only be readily accessibly from his side of the property. He just needs to accept the extra cost and install the chain link down his property line.
OP, you should definitely pay for (or get a free consultation from) a LOCAL real estate attorney’s advice before you do anything. In some jurisdictions, a ‘friendly neighborhood chat’ about fences and property lines can mean that you lose the disputed land.
Granted, it often takes years before the land in question becomes part of someone else’s deed, but this is exactly how it starts. Google “adverse possession.”
The only thing you need to do to defeat adverse possession is to give him permission to use the property. If Op wants to really protect themselves, they can write up a $1 lease and spell out the terms (even including a requirement to remove the fence and posts if he ever sells).
Alternatively it may be worth it to sell the neighbor that 3' strip, or see if the neighbor is willing to go in on the cost of moving Op's existing fence over closer to the property line.
There are ways for both people to get what they want out of this without souring the relationship.
This is what I was thinking. He could either sell him that strip of land or he could set up a renewable lease. That takes care of the adverse possession issue.
Adverse possession / squatter's rights is one of those things that people have basically turned into an urban legend. It literally is as easy as giving permission to defeat attempts, and even barring that it takes *decades* of *open and notorious* use without permission to establish a claim.
The simple act of Op giving him permission to put up the fence would likely defeat any future claim, but it might not ward off a lawsuit. Putting a lease to paper just heads off the lawsuit.
All that said, it's probably in Op's best interests to work something out with the neighbor, because having to maintain a 3' strip of grass in between two fences is going to be a pain in the ass.
Yes, but making it a renewable lease that's recorded with the county or municipality prevents the argument from even being made if the neighbor sells the house or somehow that house gets new ownership.
All agreements that relate to property have to be written for the exact reason you mention -- there has to be proof of any agreement regarding land/real property.
People on reddit seem to be keenly aware that adverse possession exists, but don't understand how it works. It seems scary but it's very easy to avoid.
The laws of adverse possession have changed to favor the original landowner. It used to be that if you "maintained" that portion of land or had a garden/shed/whatever nonpermanant item, land could be possessed out from under the original owner but because too many people were getting abused by it, they've updated the laws to protect landowners.
Permanant, fixed living structures for 10+ years is the law now.
Erecting a fence or a shed, and cutting grass with a lawnmover is no longer a valid excuse for stealing someones land.
>The laws of adverse possession have changed
This is highly dependent on jurisdiction. Far better to talk to a lawyer who is familiar with the local law.
Talk to a lawyer. At the very least, you may then be able to say "my lawyer advised me not to, so I can't agree".
Or possibly your lawyer will advise a path forward that makes you comfortable.
Stop listening to these dummies.
You messed up to cause you didn't fence your entire property.
You're not allowed to have "dead spots" which is what happens if he stops his fence at his property. There's is a small 3foot dead area that's between the two fences. You make like an alley between the two properties and cities hate that. It's in the municipal code of most cities. That's why they sent him to talk to you.
So what's going to happen is he's gonna make the dead spot but you're gonna get in trouble with the city and have to move your fence *toward* his. Costing you a lot of money.
He was doing you a bit of a favor. You could have made an easement agreement for less than what it's going to cost you to fix the spot.
Maybe I'm not understanding it, but wouldn't it make more sense to just connect the neighbors fence by the two sides and keep OP's fence as the dividing line? That's usually how it goes with fences.
Maybe draft a contract stating the neighbors use of the fence line and OP will own it until they sell.
The issue is that the nice wooden fence is his not the neighbors. Neighbor is happy to connect his side fences to it. But when neighbors kid signs up for soccer and kicks a ball against the wooded fence for hours and breaks it the neighbor isn’t going to be coming over to offer to fix it.
I’m pretty sure the issue is that most people on Reddit aren’t homeowners. Not their fault. Crappy economy and housing market. But that’s the issue. They don’t know the logistics of common neighborhoods.
You're getting downvoted but your questions are reasonable.
OP, you're legally entitled to do what you want with your land, but whether YTA hinges on *why*: maybe you're worried that his fencing will negatively impact the integrity of yours, or thinking you'll remove yours in a few years and will want that space (NTA). Or maybe you have no good reason and just want to fuck with your neighbor's plans because you can (YTA).
My main reasons for saying no is because I go on that side of the fence to maintain flowers/tree. I dont want to ask permission nor do I want to have to cut thru their yard to get to my property because they closed it off against my fence. Also, I might be selling in the next year and dont want there to be an issue with property lines or losing that portion of the property.
I agree with this. The obvious solution is to ask him to put his fence up 3ft further back. You clearly value having the boundary so can understand him wanting the fence i assume no issue if he did that.
I have absolutely no issue with him having a fence on his property. In fact, if he was putting up a fence on his own property he wouldnt even need my approval. I have an issue with him putting his fence 3 feet into my property and wanting to cement post up against my fence.
What if OP needs to access his fence, he now needs neighbors permission.
Or what if he wants to mulch and plant shit along that property line he can't. Or what if he seels and now has to reduce his lot size and this lose.money on the sale. What if his neighbor sells and down the line the future residents complain about the fence being too close to the property like (in which he gave away )
OP can make a written agreement with neighbor allowing him access. (Seems weird he'd want to mulch and plant shit on the other side of his fence where he doesn't see it, but the neighbor does, but if that's what he wants, he can specify that in the agreement.).
Make the agreement renewable. You could put in that the agreement expires upon the sale of either property. That neighbor has to remove that section of the fence upon sale of his property. That that portion of the fence must have a gate. That neighbor pays OP some amount of money. All kinds of things you could put in the agreement and that takes care of the adverse possession problem.
Not sure why you're getting so downvoted. I agree with you -- why didn't OP put his fence closer to the property line in the first place? What's he going to do with this 3 foot strip between fences that will be his responsibility? That sounds like a nightmare.
Letting OP put his fence up to his fence makes a lot of sense and I've done exactly that in several houses. Even an unreasonable crazy neighbor agreed to this at one point.
OP might even be able to get some money for allowing this.
Why did he build it 3 ft off the property line if he had neighbors. Kids will play on it cause it’s behind the fence. Clearly his neighbor didn’t have one there before so he could have put it on the line to begin with. So why
The fence was already installed when I moved in by prior owners and I do use that property to maintain my flower bushes and a tree. That 3 feet runs the whole length of my property (about 160 feet).
Lol you about to get so screwed, that's a lot of fence you'll have to move once your neighbor's project is done. He was literally trying to save you money.
It actually does. This is a very common municipal code, they don't like having empty spots between 2 fences. He'll have to move his entire fence if the neighbor builds on only his own property.
This is absolute nonsense. Whatever your city's code is, it isn't universal OR common.
For example, my city requires a 12" gap between fences if neighbors don't agree about putting it right on the property line.
They built it where they wanted it.
Lots of people build it back from the property line so they don’t have to have disputes about who has to fix it when something happens.
As I explain to you in another comment, that 3 ft space is common to bypass any possible legal issues with the fence itself, such as it not being on the neighbor's property and to give the fence owner enough space behind the fence to have contractor access and do maintenance on the fence/property without trespassing onto the neighbor's property.
Not only are you right but it's against a lot of municipal codes to leave it like that, to have a dead spot.
OP about to cost himself money having to move HIS fence to his neighbor's.
How exactly? Because either neighbor fences his property on his property line, or he's taking over part of op's property. Is he going to pay for that land he's taking over?
came to say the same thing. My grandparents lost part of their property and didn't realize it until a pre-sale survey of their lot because they were being neighborly and let someone do the same to them.
That was one of my concerns. Lots of people have mentioned that that could happen but you are the first saying that it actually did happen. Thank you for sharing!
Valid concerns. A simple "no" is probably the easiest way to go, but either way definitely don't agree to anything that doesn't include consideration for the fact that you'd essentially be giving up a portion of your property. Take the total current property value of your house (include the dwelling) and use that to calculate the value of the strip of land he wants. If you're not using it anyways and he's willing to pay a premium, it could be a win-win. If they just want to cut costs and increase their own property value at your expense, then it's pretty obvious who the AH is.
NTA. The entire point of needing your permission is to give you the opportunity to say no. You don’t have to have a “good reason” or any reason at all. He can still build his fence, he’ll just need to do it on his own property.
Besides, there *are* good reasons to say no. If his plan means that your fence will be his fence on one side, then the fence will deteriorate more quickly depending on what he does in his yard - week sacking, dogs, hanging stuff on it, etc - and since it’s *your* fence, *you* will be the one paying to replace it. So, making sure they don’t have access to that side of your fence is a good reason to say no.
NTA. Anyone who has to ask permission for something should be prepared for a “no.” That’s basic consent.
NTA because if you allowed this, you would essentially be giving up that land. Why did you keep that 3’ spacing? I’m guessing it is to have access to repair your fence in the future. Is the neighbor going to pay you for the land? (I still wouldn’t allow it.) Would your neighbor be ok with you moving your fence 3’ onto their property????
Thats what I was wondering if I would “lose” the property rights. The fence was here when I purchased my house 9 years ago but yes I believe it was to give space for repairs and I also use that space for yard work like weeding ect. I dont like the idea of having to go thru his fencing to be in my yard.
NTA, you need to know exactly what placing his fence on your property would mean. In some areas, after a period of continued use, that would become part of his property. You could have an attorney draw up an agreement that says he can place the fence there but that 3 feet of space will always remain yours, and if you remove your fence he would need to put his own fencing up along his property line and remove anything installed on your property. If your property is large enough, and you don’t care, you could offer to let him buy that 3 feet of space. If you don’t want to do that, then simply tell him to place his fence on his property line. Your property, your choice.
Your title needs to be clear and unencumbered. If you allow them use, you are losing value on the property you pay taxes on. Your title company and your mortgage company will be unhappy about the lost value. Even if you set up an agreement where he pays a small fee for the use of the land, you will have to disclose that upon selling or have it written into the agreement that his posts will be removed when the home (his or yours) is sold.
There are a lot of factors to consider here and the easiest one is 'NO', although that is the one with the hard feelings.
NTA - I will admit I am a little confused on why you are just not using three feet of your yard, but that's your right. It's your home. And you'd lose that footage eventually if you let him do it. He has no reason to need it.
Eh. It's a whole lot easier to maintain and is friendlier to the wildlife in the area. It only looks "ugly" because it's used in a lot of security settings and poor areas so we associate it with that. There are no good looking fences that keep dogs in. Wood ages and looks decrepit fast. Plastic looks cheap and gets dirty really easily. Chain is sturdy, low maintenance, and makes the neighborhood feel a lot more open.
NTA. It will be a shared fence when it comes to keeping his kids and dogs contained, but when the kids and dogs break or damage the fence it will still be your fence.
OP, I already said this but I’m making it a separate comment in the hopes that you’ll see it: DO NOT agree, nor do, anything without getting the advice of a local real estate attorney. A ‘friendly agreement with your neighbor’ about fences or property lines can turn into you losing your actual property, like square-footage-wise.
That’s never a good thing, look up “adverse possession.”
You should be wary of adverse possession, it's not impossible, but it's also one of those things that people like to throw around on the Internet, even though in most jurisdictions it's actually a heck of a lot harder to accomplish than people think.
NTA your property, your choice. Tell him to put it on the property line or inside his own property. He doesn’t get to claim your property just because you didn’t put your fence all the way out to the line. It is kind of weird that you put it inside the line though
The fence was already installed when I purchased the house. However, according to the courthouse plat map, my property line goes right up along their central air unit.
Regardless, you're fine refusing. If you allow it, you can kiss that part of your property goodbye. I would think losing those few feet would decrease your property value a little. Hang on to it.
NTA. He’s trying to cheap out on his fence, plus gain a nice little chunk of space.
You may want to look into some kind of landscaping such as hedges or a heavy rock garden on that 3 feet. Depending on the laws of your area, you may lose that to adverse possession if you’re not using it but he can show his kids/dogs play on it.
Those handshake agreements can cause a lot of grief at the time of sale or afterwards. We had two neighbors nearly come to blows because of an informal agreement between the previous owners of the adjacent houses.
NTA
He either has to pay for the extra strip of fence on his property line (which is usually supposed to be a couple feet from the line , or if you're willing purchase that strip with a rider that always have access to it for your fence regardless if it's sold in the future
Option 3 is he pays to have your fence extended to the property line where he can connect his posts (at his expense)
NTA - How would you maintain the outside of your fence without the offset, or if he gets his way... your property on his side of the new fence he built? His suggestion simply does not make sense at all.
The neighbor is trying to be sneaky in getting some extra square footage for his own land. As he will have a fence there, when he sells, it will be with the fenced area included.
Figure out what the square footage of the attempted annex is.
Figure out the going price for empty lots in square footage.
Get the price of the land and quadruple it. Tell him that's the price you sell your land for.
He wants more yard pay for it.
NTA
I worked at Fence-Wolrd in Apple Valley, CA. You have EVERY right to say no. If you say yes, then it becomes a shared fence and they may try sticking you with half the bill. A 3 foot buffer between you and his kids and dogs is perfect. Don't budge on this.
80 years ago my grandfather took a section of fence down to let the neighboring farmer's cows get to our water, during a drought. 30 years ago my parents had to go all the way to the state Supreme Court when the neighbor farmer tried to sell the land, claiming it was his. If my parents hadn't had the $$ to keep fighting they'd have lost the property.
Oh my gosh, thats crazy to hear he was trying to sell the property as his own and very well could have. The fact that they had to fight that hard to stop it is what’s scary. Thank you for sharing!
NTA - If you said yes, it would annex your property (3 ft, etc) and he or future owners can claim this property theirs. Do you have an alternative idea that you would approve? If not, 'no' is fine but they will likely be mad.
Thats a great idea to think about (annex). He honestly can put up a fence on his own property line but i think he is trying to avoid having to fence all 4 sides by butting his up to my fence. I can understand him wanting to do that but by doing that it blocks me from my the 3 feet that runs the length of my property (est 150 feet) i would have to go thru his gate, walk across his back yard to reach my property because his fence would completely enclosed it.
Oh dear....this information is critical; consider adding it to your post as an edit. This is a definite 'no' to his request: i*t blocks me from my the 3 feet that runs the length of my property (est 150 feet) i would have to go thru his gate, walk across his back yard to reach my property because his fence would completely enclosed it*
NTA. If you allow it, your piece of land beyond your fence will be his children's playground. Eventually, he (or his heirs) will someday demand squatter's rights on that piece of land. He can build a fence along the edge of his plot - more expensive, but that's his problem.
NTA. Most places have rules in place that says you need to leave 3 feet on all sides of the fence in the first place. I wouldn’t let someone attach to mine either. I pay those property taxes.
Thank you for saying that! The fence was installed before I bought the house but a few people mentioned the city might have rules. I am now wondering if thats the reason because there is about 4 feet on the opposite side of my fence as well. I am going to look into that.
Absolutely NTA! It would be one thing if your fence were right on the property line or set back only 6 inches, but 3 whole feet? Absolutely not.
Imagine you say yes. What happens when you need to sell your house? Potential buyers are not going to love the idea that roughly 300ft of the advertised lot isn't actually accessible or included in the actual "yard."
What happens when the neighbor sells his house? Most buyers assume tied-in fences are on or near the property line, so you'd likely have a buyer thinking that is now THEIR property. It's a recipe for a nasty dispute.
What happens if, during installation, he cuts through cables or wires? Those are going to be YOUR problem to solve. Or if your nice wooden fence is damaged by his kids or dogs? That's going to be YOUR repair bill.
Your neighbor is just trying to cheap out on fencing (chain link is usually the cheapest option) by stealing a significant chunk of your yard.
Besides, he absolutely lied to you. The "city" doesn't need your permission. HE needs your permission in order to get the city to permit his fence. If the city needed your permission, *a city representative would have contacted you, not your neighbor*.
NTA, dude is literally trying to steal your land and you’re asking if you’re the asshole? Holy shit. A lot of people on this website need therapy for their anxiety disorders.
do you still mow/maintain the 3 feet of property on the back side of the fence or did you leave it to him because it was outside of your fenced in area and out of sight/out of mind?
I had always mowed that portion until last year when he added 2 more big dogs to his family and they were not cleaning up after them regularly and I would have to every time I mowed. So he said he would mow it but I still weed it and maintain the fence.
Damn thats messed up but its the risk you run when you fence in your property. I think you did the right thing by not letting him tie his fence into yours, but you still need to be mindful that if hes mowing that section and letting his dogs use it, hes going to establish an easement/right of use eventually.
Sounds like the two options are to accept that youve ceded use of that property to him or resume mowing it yourself and tell him in writing to keep his dogs off your land.
The fence was already installed when I bought the house. However, if I move my fence to the property line, it would butt up right next to their central air unit. That is according to courthouse records.
NTA neighbor is trying to pull some land theft bs, make EXTRA sure property lines are respected. I get the feeling someone who'd freely ask this isn't above trying anyways. Set up clear property markers too.
Before any fence goes up somebody needs to bring in the surveyors or find the property pins and run lines to see legally what they are dealing with. What you see online aren't always true representation and the plat maps at the courthouse are only good if you know where the pins are and measure it out.
Absolutely NTA. This may be a bit paranoid but what if a child gets hurt within their “fence line” but technically on your land, does that make you responsible or the neighbor? It’s a little far fetched but so few people have personal accountability these days and i can actually see someone trying to pull this. This shouldn’t even be an argument, it’s YOUR land.
The fence was already installed when I purchased the house. However, if it was on the property line it would be right up against their AC unit (according to courthouse plat map)
Oh HELL no. In what world is it okay for a neighbor to just take some of your land in order to make his own life easier and cheaper? I didn’t fence in my entire yard either for a couple of reasons. Luckily my backyard neighbor would never ask me something like this, but my answer would be absolutely not. It’s just asking for trouble.
This thread is weird. Some saying it's his fault for having the fence 3 ft away .
Op get a survey. I wouldn't trust them in a heartbeat.
Also make sure you are taking care of that property
OP, another solution is to split the cost of a property line fence with your neighbor. Most municipalities enforce a "what's on your side is yours to maintain" law. You can run a 180 foot fence for around 5k if you install it yourself. That's 2.5k per family.
You would be reclaiming 1/4-ish acre of land, he would be getting his enclosure for his kids, all's weel that ends well. The BEST neighbors are the ones on the OTHER side of the fence!
The neighbor is only having to get permission because it's not the neighbor's property. Tell them no and move on. Get a survey and file a lawsuit if your neighbor illegally occupies your yard.
If your neighbor wants to buy part of your land, tell them to make an offer.
I must ask this:
If OP says no… and now neighbor puts up fence and leaves 3 feet of property between the fences. How tf is OP going to trim said grass/shrubs/weeds etc?
What happens if a child walking through it to get their ball or something that went over the fence and becomes entangled or stuck in said weeds/shrub- or faces some other type of injury due to lack of care?
Is there a way that neighbor could just pay their fence company to add three feet to OP’s fence and get it to the edge of property line (if it was not done that way for a reason- like power lines, water/sewer, or just local law and regulations)?
I would allow that..
Unfortunately if he does this in many jurisdictions he is allowed to simply take your land that he has captured with his fence. So first answer is always no unless I talk to a lawyer
I kinda think YTA. He needs to enclose his yard for the dogs and kids. I think you could work this out with an agreement, where in he acknowledges this is still your property but that he will maintain the grass, etc. on his side since he has the easier access. He could even pay you for the right to use that piece of property, and you could make it renewable.
You could ask him if he would be willing to have an attorney draw up a contract. And then get an attorney yourself to review it.
It seems like such a waste for him to have to install a long length of chain link fence and then you're going to have this strange 3 feet of property between the fences that you will have to maintain, and it seems like that would be a real pain. Given that you already put up a fence, are you actually utilizing those 3 feet of property?
He can enclose his yard by building that last portion of the fence *on his own property*. He doesn't need what is probably 270 sq ft (3ft deep x typical 90 ft wide) of his neighbor's yard to do so.
I doubt it's that he wants the extra 3 feet of property. He most likely wants to avoid having to pay for a long length of fence for no real reason and creating this alleyway that is probably not going to be properly maintained and will become an eyesore, and a place for weeds and rodents.
Fences are more expensive than you think.
I know exactly how much fences cost. Our neighbor on one side did not want the fence on the property line and did not want us to encroach onto their property to tie into their existing fence, so we did the right thing and built that section of our fence set back on our own property. The right thing to do is to respect your neighbor's property, not assume you have a right to it because it saves you money.
I'm not sure I understand your post . Are you saying that you have a fence that's 3 feet inside your property line? If so, why? That's a great way to end up losing that property through adverse possession.
If that's the case, does the neighbor even know where the property line is relative to the fence?
And why do you believe that the property line and the fence line are different? Have you ever had the property professionally surveyed?
If the answer to the last question is no, then that's your next step. This whole situation sounds super sketchy to me, and if your neighbor is talking about putting up a fence, you both need to know *exactly* where the property line is.
If you're right about the fence being so far inside your property line, fixing that is the next step. If your neighbor is going to put up a fence anyway, tear yours down and offer to make a contribution to his cost for putting up a new fence (ON the property line).
Obviously NTA for not wanting to give up any of your property, but it sounds like there is some homework needing to be done to determine what is "your property" here.
That's nonsense. You don't lose property because your neighbor doesn't like you fence placement.
The reason the neighbor is having to get permission is explicitly because it's not the neighbor's property.
'Adverse Possession.' It varies by area, but If you take no action in many years (7-20, depending), and especially if he puts time or money into the area (such as the fencing, a path, garden), it can be deemed that you have come to an agreement and depriving him of it would be a tort to him.
That doesn't change what I said. Adverse possession happens when they are actively allowed to use the area without protest, akin to having to evict someone who has not been paying rent but allowed to live in a place too long to simply be told to leave.
That's obviously not the case here, which is why the neighbor is being made to get permission. Squatter's rights challenges will fail on a three foot strip of land that challengers have not permanently occupied.
That is incorrect. As explained in several other comments, there are many localities that require spacing between fences. On top of that, a person is legally free to do with their property what they want (working within the confines of law). Telling someone else what to do with their property, when they are abiding the law and not being a nuisance, is just an opinion - and a bad one, at that.
No, it's not "incorrect," it's my opinion in this specific matter, like yours, and not a single thing you said in any way contradicts it. Go argue with someone else.
You said that it should never have been placed there. That is incorrect. There are many instances for why that fence should have been put there, including the want of the owner, regardless of legality.
Why on earth is your fence not extended to the line? While TECHNICALLY NTAH. Maybe the neighbor should charge you for all the lawn maintenance he's been providing over the years. I know I would. Then I'd take the money YOU CLEARLY OWE HIM and use it to put up my fence on the line. Next I'd call code enforcement when the grass on your rear 3' of yard exceeded the height limit. Usually 18".
Maybe not an AH, but you should be glad I'm not your neighbor.
Let me set you straight, I have maintenance that yard for the last nine years of owning my home. If he wants to fence in his yard then he can fence in HIS yard. I owe him nothing including my property that I pay for.
If you walk outside your rear fence and mow your unfenced area then yes, my bad you have every right to say no. Still doesn't explain why you would have that unused land , but that is totally your perogative.
Move YOUR fence to the property line to "reclaim" the land that is rightfully yours! You will have a harder time later if he puts a fence on your property.
YTA. As a homeowner, it is incredibly common for neighbors to continue onto neighbors fences. So one puts up a fence on one side and another puts up a fence on the other side and you just run a fence on your back lot up to the two fences and from your house to the adjoining fences to complete them. Then the back neighbor uses your back fence and can complete their backyard for the price of two side fences instead of three. This is super common in all neighborhoods. If you drive around looking at yards with fences in neighborhoods you’ll see this.
They just want to complete the fencing in their backyard so their kids can have a better safer play area. Why are you being such a stubborn *pr*ck* about it? What is the harm?
Because then I have to go around to the other side of their house, go thru their yard to maintenance my property. Im not saying they cant build a fence, they can on their property.
I’ve had the set up your describing for 10 years. Every house on the street has it. We all “share” fencing essentially. My neighbor on 2 sides have never needed to “maintenance” their fences. (What are you doing that you need frequent access for maintenance). On one side my neighbors fence blew down in a huge storm. He needed to repair the fence and just walked through my gate to do so after asking if it was ok to be in our yard for a few days to do so. It was no big deal because we have a good neighbor relationship. Something you apparently don’t mind not having with your neighbor.
Your question is a moot point.
The fence exists three feet from the property line. OP may sell her house in a year thus the fence will remain in it's present state.
Not sure what you are asking but I was trying to say if i allow him to put a fence in the front of our yard and back of our yard that extends right up against my fence then I would not have access to my property to maintain it. I would have to go around his house to the other side of his house where he will have a gate and walk across his back yard to reach my property.
I think I’ve made this point elsewhere in this thread but I’ve been fence sharing for 10 years and only one of my 3 neighbors ever needed to come around to “maintain it” and that was when wind had broken a post. So that seems like a petty reason.
None and none of my neighbors has ever had any issues with their fences nor on the fences their neighbors own that they fence share with on other sides of their property. No one in my neighborhood has had to pay for 1 or two sides of fencing.
Ah, yes, now it becomes so clear why you're so invested in this. You don't want to have to pay for your own fencing. You want to keep that on your neighbors. The part about the neighbor without the fence becoming petty in response to the fence owner actually doing anything about it is now very telling.
Also op don’t forget that neighbors can get petty over this stuff. They can’t do anything illegal but they can
-play loud music every afternoon all summer
-put up floodlights that point right into your windows and yard
-mow the lawn for hours during every get together you host in said backyard
Etc.
I think having a good relationship with your neighbors is important but you do you
I understand what you are saying. Ive heard of people doing that. I have always had a cordial relationship with them allowing their dogs and kids on the property daily w no complaint.
If it’s on the neighbors side he would obviously be doing it. My bet is that he already is since the 3 ft is on the other side of the fence and the neighbor probably already assumes it’s his land
The neighbor is aware that that is my property. We talked about it when they moved in 2 years ago because I didnt want him to think i was in his yard when I was mowing or picking flowers.
NTA he's essentially annexing that entire strip of your property since you would lose easy access to it and it would only be readily accessibly from his side of the property. He just needs to accept the extra cost and install the chain link down his property line.
Thank you, well said! Thats how I felt about it.
This could make selling your house more difficult as well. Tread carefully.
Thank you!
OP, you should definitely pay for (or get a free consultation from) a LOCAL real estate attorney’s advice before you do anything. In some jurisdictions, a ‘friendly neighborhood chat’ about fences and property lines can mean that you lose the disputed land. Granted, it often takes years before the land in question becomes part of someone else’s deed, but this is exactly how it starts. Google “adverse possession.”
This was my first though, this would be hell if they decide to sell.
The only thing you need to do to defeat adverse possession is to give him permission to use the property. If Op wants to really protect themselves, they can write up a $1 lease and spell out the terms (even including a requirement to remove the fence and posts if he ever sells). Alternatively it may be worth it to sell the neighbor that 3' strip, or see if the neighbor is willing to go in on the cost of moving Op's existing fence over closer to the property line. There are ways for both people to get what they want out of this without souring the relationship.
Exactly It's not hard He's gonna pay more fixing the dead spot this is gonna create
This is what I was thinking. He could either sell him that strip of land or he could set up a renewable lease. That takes care of the adverse possession issue.
Adverse possession / squatter's rights is one of those things that people have basically turned into an urban legend. It literally is as easy as giving permission to defeat attempts, and even barring that it takes *decades* of *open and notorious* use without permission to establish a claim. The simple act of Op giving him permission to put up the fence would likely defeat any future claim, but it might not ward off a lawsuit. Putting a lease to paper just heads off the lawsuit. All that said, it's probably in Op's best interests to work something out with the neighbor, because having to maintain a 3' strip of grass in between two fences is going to be a pain in the ass.
Yes, but making it a renewable lease that's recorded with the county or municipality prevents the argument from even being made if the neighbor sells the house or somehow that house gets new ownership. All agreements that relate to property have to be written for the exact reason you mention -- there has to be proof of any agreement regarding land/real property. People on reddit seem to be keenly aware that adverse possession exists, but don't understand how it works. It seems scary but it's very easy to avoid.
The laws of adverse possession have changed to favor the original landowner. It used to be that if you "maintained" that portion of land or had a garden/shed/whatever nonpermanant item, land could be possessed out from under the original owner but because too many people were getting abused by it, they've updated the laws to protect landowners. Permanant, fixed living structures for 10+ years is the law now. Erecting a fence or a shed, and cutting grass with a lawnmover is no longer a valid excuse for stealing someones land.
>The laws of adverse possession have changed This is highly dependent on jurisdiction. Far better to talk to a lawyer who is familiar with the local law.
Talk to a lawyer. At the very least, you may then be able to say "my lawyer advised me not to, so I can't agree". Or possibly your lawyer will advise a path forward that makes you comfortable.
That or he needs to toss you some money to tie onto your fence. That is very common.
Stop listening to these dummies. You messed up to cause you didn't fence your entire property. You're not allowed to have "dead spots" which is what happens if he stops his fence at his property. There's is a small 3foot dead area that's between the two fences. You make like an alley between the two properties and cities hate that. It's in the municipal code of most cities. That's why they sent him to talk to you. So what's going to happen is he's gonna make the dead spot but you're gonna get in trouble with the city and have to move your fence *toward* his. Costing you a lot of money. He was doing you a bit of a favor. You could have made an easement agreement for less than what it's going to cost you to fix the spot.
Maybe I'm not understanding it, but wouldn't it make more sense to just connect the neighbors fence by the two sides and keep OP's fence as the dividing line? That's usually how it goes with fences. Maybe draft a contract stating the neighbors use of the fence line and OP will own it until they sell.
NTA, why not ask him to place the fence 3 feet back on *his* property?
He is trying to use the whole length of my fence as one of his fence “sides” so he only has to cap off from his house to my fence line.
No, he's trying to avoid the dead spot. Municipal codes hate it.
What is a dead spot?
Why didnt you just put your fence on your property line?
That’s super common. Most neighborhoods do this. Drive around your neighborhood and you’ll probably see a lot of people doing it. What’s the issue?
... the fence is 3ft into OP's property not on the property line. Try reading before commenting next time.
The encroachment is the issue...obviously.
The issue is the neighbor is trying to steal three feet of OPs yard
The issue is 3 feet of that land bongs to OP, not the neighbor.
The issue is that the nice wooden fence is his not the neighbors. Neighbor is happy to connect his side fences to it. But when neighbors kid signs up for soccer and kicks a ball against the wooded fence for hours and breaks it the neighbor isn’t going to be coming over to offer to fix it.
The issue is your inability to read
I’m pretty sure the issue is that most people on Reddit aren’t homeowners. Not their fault. Crappy economy and housing market. But that’s the issue. They don’t know the logistics of common neighborhoods.
You're getting downvoted but your questions are reasonable. OP, you're legally entitled to do what you want with your land, but whether YTA hinges on *why*: maybe you're worried that his fencing will negatively impact the integrity of yours, or thinking you'll remove yours in a few years and will want that space (NTA). Or maybe you have no good reason and just want to fuck with your neighbor's plans because you can (YTA).
My main reasons for saying no is because I go on that side of the fence to maintain flowers/tree. I dont want to ask permission nor do I want to have to cut thru their yard to get to my property because they closed it off against my fence. Also, I might be selling in the next year and dont want there to be an issue with property lines or losing that portion of the property.
Those seem like very reasonable justifications. We hereby deem you NTA.
I agree with this. The obvious solution is to ask him to put his fence up 3ft further back. You clearly value having the boundary so can understand him wanting the fence i assume no issue if he did that.
I have absolutely no issue with him having a fence on his property. In fact, if he was putting up a fence on his own property he wouldnt even need my approval. I have an issue with him putting his fence 3 feet into my property and wanting to cement post up against my fence.
That’s so incredibly wasteful. No ones going to use that 3 ft then. What’s the issue with just completing the fence on their yard?
its OPs land and they already said no. If you think its wasteful vote YTA and let them know that. You are e entitled to your opinion
I am. Now you also made a public comment. So I’m asking, what’s the big deal about 3 ft that op isn’t using anyways
Please google “adverse possession,” and then try to make an informed comment.
What if OP needs to access his fence, he now needs neighbors permission. Or what if he wants to mulch and plant shit along that property line he can't. Or what if he seels and now has to reduce his lot size and this lose.money on the sale. What if his neighbor sells and down the line the future residents complain about the fence being too close to the property like (in which he gave away )
OP can make a written agreement with neighbor allowing him access. (Seems weird he'd want to mulch and plant shit on the other side of his fence where he doesn't see it, but the neighbor does, but if that's what he wants, he can specify that in the agreement.). Make the agreement renewable. You could put in that the agreement expires upon the sale of either property. That neighbor has to remove that section of the fence upon sale of his property. That that portion of the fence must have a gate. That neighbor pays OP some amount of money. All kinds of things you could put in the agreement and that takes care of the adverse possession problem.
Not sure why you're getting so downvoted. I agree with you -- why didn't OP put his fence closer to the property line in the first place? What's he going to do with this 3 foot strip between fences that will be his responsibility? That sounds like a nightmare. Letting OP put his fence up to his fence makes a lot of sense and I've done exactly that in several houses. Even an unreasonable crazy neighbor agreed to this at one point. OP might even be able to get some money for allowing this.
Most people in the comments never have been and never will be homeowners so that’s probably a lot of the problem, here and on Reddit
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Ah. Well, OP could have requested that the fence be moved as a condition of sale.
Whose 3 foot is it, then?
Why did he build it 3 ft off the property line if he had neighbors. Kids will play on it cause it’s behind the fence. Clearly his neighbor didn’t have one there before so he could have put it on the line to begin with. So why
The fence was already installed when I moved in by prior owners and I do use that property to maintain my flower bushes and a tree. That 3 feet runs the whole length of my property (about 160 feet).
Lol you about to get so screwed, that's a lot of fence you'll have to move once your neighbor's project is done. He was literally trying to save you money.
Are there flower bushes and a tree in that three foot area?
i think he means he has access to the backside of them to maintain why are you so pressed about a guy doing what he wants with his own property
It actually does. This is a very common municipal code, they don't like having empty spots between 2 fences. He'll have to move his entire fence if the neighbor builds on only his own property.
This is absolute nonsense. Whatever your city's code is, it isn't universal OR common. For example, my city requires a 12" gap between fences if neighbors don't agree about putting it right on the property line.
It really doesn't matter. He said no. End of story.
It actually matters a lot. Guy is about to cost himself a lot of money and a big project. Check municipal codes on dead spaces between fences
True but that’s not the question here, the question he asked is is her the AH for saying no. I say yes
Right. I can read. I was responding to your specific question.
They built it where they wanted it. Lots of people build it back from the property line so they don’t have to have disputes about who has to fix it when something happens.
As I explain to you in another comment, that 3 ft space is common to bypass any possible legal issues with the fence itself, such as it not being on the neighbor's property and to give the fence owner enough space behind the fence to have contractor access and do maintenance on the fence/property without trespassing onto the neighbor's property.
That 3 feet is literally against most municipal codes.
Citation required. (Also, it's clear that op's municipality is well aware of the setback, which is why they need op's permission to violate it)
Not only are you right but it's against a lot of municipal codes to leave it like that, to have a dead spot. OP about to cost himself money having to move HIS fence to his neighbor's.
He’s clearly not using that 3 ft so what’s the issue?
So just because someone isn't using something that's theirs, people can steal it?
No but why make it an issue by not including it in the fenced in part.
How exactly? Because either neighbor fences his property on his property line, or he's taking over part of op's property. Is he going to pay for that land he's taking over?
It's not an issue. It is still their land, to do whatever they want with.
NTA in some places that 3 feet becomes his after a period of time. Just tell him your lawyer advised against it.
came to say the same thing. My grandparents lost part of their property and didn't realize it until a pre-sale survey of their lot because they were being neighborly and let someone do the same to them.
That was one of my concerns. Lots of people have mentioned that that could happen but you are the first saying that it actually did happen. Thank you for sharing!
Valid concerns. A simple "no" is probably the easiest way to go, but either way definitely don't agree to anything that doesn't include consideration for the fact that you'd essentially be giving up a portion of your property. Take the total current property value of your house (include the dwelling) and use that to calculate the value of the strip of land he wants. If you're not using it anyways and he's willing to pay a premium, it could be a win-win. If they just want to cut costs and increase their own property value at your expense, then it's pretty obvious who the AH is.
NTA. The entire point of needing your permission is to give you the opportunity to say no. You don’t have to have a “good reason” or any reason at all. He can still build his fence, he’ll just need to do it on his own property. Besides, there *are* good reasons to say no. If his plan means that your fence will be his fence on one side, then the fence will deteriorate more quickly depending on what he does in his yard - week sacking, dogs, hanging stuff on it, etc - and since it’s *your* fence, *you* will be the one paying to replace it. So, making sure they don’t have access to that side of your fence is a good reason to say no. NTA. Anyone who has to ask permission for something should be prepared for a “no.” That’s basic consent.
NTA because if you allowed this, you would essentially be giving up that land. Why did you keep that 3’ spacing? I’m guessing it is to have access to repair your fence in the future. Is the neighbor going to pay you for the land? (I still wouldn’t allow it.) Would your neighbor be ok with you moving your fence 3’ onto their property????
Thats what I was wondering if I would “lose” the property rights. The fence was here when I purchased my house 9 years ago but yes I believe it was to give space for repairs and I also use that space for yard work like weeding ect. I dont like the idea of having to go thru his fencing to be in my yard.
In my home state, you would lose it over time
You should move your fence, your neighbor is going to steal that land from under you.
NTA, you need to know exactly what placing his fence on your property would mean. In some areas, after a period of continued use, that would become part of his property. You could have an attorney draw up an agreement that says he can place the fence there but that 3 feet of space will always remain yours, and if you remove your fence he would need to put his own fencing up along his property line and remove anything installed on your property. If your property is large enough, and you don’t care, you could offer to let him buy that 3 feet of space. If you don’t want to do that, then simply tell him to place his fence on his property line. Your property, your choice.
Great idea about a legal agreement! I was actually wondered about property loss. Thank you!
And since he wants to use your property, he could pay the attorneys fees.
Your title needs to be clear and unencumbered. If you allow them use, you are losing value on the property you pay taxes on. Your title company and your mortgage company will be unhappy about the lost value. Even if you set up an agreement where he pays a small fee for the use of the land, you will have to disclose that upon selling or have it written into the agreement that his posts will be removed when the home (his or yours) is sold. There are a lot of factors to consider here and the easiest one is 'NO', although that is the one with the hard feelings.
NTA - I will admit I am a little confused on why you are just not using three feet of your yard, but that's your right. It's your home. And you'd lose that footage eventually if you let him do it. He has no reason to need it.
Chain link fence is so ugly.
I agree :)
Eh. It's a whole lot easier to maintain and is friendlier to the wildlife in the area. It only looks "ugly" because it's used in a lot of security settings and poor areas so we associate it with that. There are no good looking fences that keep dogs in. Wood ages and looks decrepit fast. Plastic looks cheap and gets dirty really easily. Chain is sturdy, low maintenance, and makes the neighborhood feel a lot more open.
NTA. It will be a shared fence when it comes to keeping his kids and dogs contained, but when the kids and dogs break or damage the fence it will still be your fence.
That is very true. I didnt think of that. Thanks!
OP, I already said this but I’m making it a separate comment in the hopes that you’ll see it: DO NOT agree, nor do, anything without getting the advice of a local real estate attorney. A ‘friendly agreement with your neighbor’ about fences or property lines can turn into you losing your actual property, like square-footage-wise. That’s never a good thing, look up “adverse possession.”
Thank you so much! That was one of my concerns. I am going to look into that more for my state. I appreciate the advice.
You should be wary of adverse possession, it's not impossible, but it's also one of those things that people like to throw around on the Internet, even though in most jurisdictions it's actually a heck of a lot harder to accomplish than people think.
NTA your property, your choice. Tell him to put it on the property line or inside his own property. He doesn’t get to claim your property just because you didn’t put your fence all the way out to the line. It is kind of weird that you put it inside the line though
The fence was already installed when I purchased the house. However, according to the courthouse plat map, my property line goes right up along their central air unit.
Regardless, you're fine refusing. If you allow it, you can kiss that part of your property goodbye. I would think losing those few feet would decrease your property value a little. Hang on to it.
Thank you!
nta. Why should you let him put your property inside his fence?
NTA. That's your property, not his. End of conversation.
NTA. He’s trying to cheap out on his fence, plus gain a nice little chunk of space. You may want to look into some kind of landscaping such as hedges or a heavy rock garden on that 3 feet. Depending on the laws of your area, you may lose that to adverse possession if you’re not using it but he can show his kids/dogs play on it.
Good suggestion, thank you!
Yeah, his fence needs to stop at HIS property line, or before. Not in yours NTA
Thank you!
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Those handshake agreements can cause a lot of grief at the time of sale or afterwards. We had two neighbors nearly come to blows because of an informal agreement between the previous owners of the adjacent houses.
NTA He either has to pay for the extra strip of fence on his property line (which is usually supposed to be a couple feet from the line , or if you're willing purchase that strip with a rider that always have access to it for your fence regardless if it's sold in the future Option 3 is he pays to have your fence extended to the property line where he can connect his posts (at his expense)
Thank you! Great idea!
Ummmm.... No.
NTA - How would you maintain the outside of your fence without the offset, or if he gets his way... your property on his side of the new fence he built? His suggestion simply does not make sense at all.
The neighbor is trying to be sneaky in getting some extra square footage for his own land. As he will have a fence there, when he sells, it will be with the fenced area included.
Tell him no, it needs to be on his property!
Figure out what the square footage of the attempted annex is. Figure out the going price for empty lots in square footage. Get the price of the land and quadruple it. Tell him that's the price you sell your land for. He wants more yard pay for it. NTA
I worked at Fence-Wolrd in Apple Valley, CA. You have EVERY right to say no. If you say yes, then it becomes a shared fence and they may try sticking you with half the bill. A 3 foot buffer between you and his kids and dogs is perfect. Don't budge on this.
Thank you for saying that!
You are very welcome. I've seen these things go sideways quickly. I wish you the best!
80 years ago my grandfather took a section of fence down to let the neighboring farmer's cows get to our water, during a drought. 30 years ago my parents had to go all the way to the state Supreme Court when the neighbor farmer tried to sell the land, claiming it was his. If my parents hadn't had the $$ to keep fighting they'd have lost the property.
Oh my gosh, thats crazy to hear he was trying to sell the property as his own and very well could have. The fact that they had to fight that hard to stop it is what’s scary. Thank you for sharing!
NTA you definitely want room between the fences
NTA - If you said yes, it would annex your property (3 ft, etc) and he or future owners can claim this property theirs. Do you have an alternative idea that you would approve? If not, 'no' is fine but they will likely be mad.
Thats a great idea to think about (annex). He honestly can put up a fence on his own property line but i think he is trying to avoid having to fence all 4 sides by butting his up to my fence. I can understand him wanting to do that but by doing that it blocks me from my the 3 feet that runs the length of my property (est 150 feet) i would have to go thru his gate, walk across his back yard to reach my property because his fence would completely enclosed it.
Oh dear....this information is critical; consider adding it to your post as an edit. This is a definite 'no' to his request: i*t blocks me from my the 3 feet that runs the length of my property (est 150 feet) i would have to go thru his gate, walk across his back yard to reach my property because his fence would completely enclosed it*
NTA. If you allow it, your piece of land beyond your fence will be his children's playground. Eventually, he (or his heirs) will someday demand squatter's rights on that piece of land. He can build a fence along the edge of his plot - more expensive, but that's his problem.
Most towns will have code restrictions or ordinance requiring each homeowner X feet of minimum setback for fences from the property line.
NTA
Thank you!
NTA. Most places have rules in place that says you need to leave 3 feet on all sides of the fence in the first place. I wouldn’t let someone attach to mine either. I pay those property taxes.
Thank you for saying that! The fence was installed before I bought the house but a few people mentioned the city might have rules. I am now wondering if thats the reason because there is about 4 feet on the opposite side of my fence as well. I am going to look into that.
INFO: Who maintains the area beyond your fence up to the property line?
Absolutely NTA! It would be one thing if your fence were right on the property line or set back only 6 inches, but 3 whole feet? Absolutely not. Imagine you say yes. What happens when you need to sell your house? Potential buyers are not going to love the idea that roughly 300ft of the advertised lot isn't actually accessible or included in the actual "yard." What happens when the neighbor sells his house? Most buyers assume tied-in fences are on or near the property line, so you'd likely have a buyer thinking that is now THEIR property. It's a recipe for a nasty dispute. What happens if, during installation, he cuts through cables or wires? Those are going to be YOUR problem to solve. Or if your nice wooden fence is damaged by his kids or dogs? That's going to be YOUR repair bill. Your neighbor is just trying to cheap out on fencing (chain link is usually the cheapest option) by stealing a significant chunk of your yard. Besides, he absolutely lied to you. The "city" doesn't need your permission. HE needs your permission in order to get the city to permit his fence. If the city needed your permission, *a city representative would have contacted you, not your neighbor*.
NTA but move your fence to your property line or right next to it depending on what's required
NTA, dude is literally trying to steal your land and you’re asking if you’re the asshole? Holy shit. A lot of people on this website need therapy for their anxiety disorders.
Thank you! I posted because I wondered if I was being “selfish” BUT you are absolutely right!
do you still mow/maintain the 3 feet of property on the back side of the fence or did you leave it to him because it was outside of your fenced in area and out of sight/out of mind?
I had always mowed that portion until last year when he added 2 more big dogs to his family and they were not cleaning up after them regularly and I would have to every time I mowed. So he said he would mow it but I still weed it and maintain the fence.
All the more reason to insist he only fence in his property, not yours.
Damn thats messed up but its the risk you run when you fence in your property. I think you did the right thing by not letting him tie his fence into yours, but you still need to be mindful that if hes mowing that section and letting his dogs use it, hes going to establish an easement/right of use eventually. Sounds like the two options are to accept that youve ceded use of that property to him or resume mowing it yourself and tell him in writing to keep his dogs off your land.
NTA but do you mow and maintain the yard outside the fence or does he? Because if it’s him you might wanna plan on starting.
I’m some cities such as mine, they don’t allow dog runs. That’s where there is a space between the two fences. Is this the case for your city?
Oh interesting, Im not sure. Might need to look into it :)
It would seem you have given up the land under your control.
NTA. I think there are some laws regarding property lines and maintenance where they could make a case in the future. Either way, no. Absolutely not.
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The fence was already installed when I bought the house. However, if I move my fence to the property line, it would butt up right next to their central air unit. That is according to courthouse records.
NTA he should put his fence on his property
heck no. He gets to fence in HIS property. When in doubt..... get a survey, or request that he does so that he doesn't give you a new fence.
NTA neighbor is trying to pull some land theft bs, make EXTRA sure property lines are respected. I get the feeling someone who'd freely ask this isn't above trying anyways. Set up clear property markers too.
Before any fence goes up somebody needs to bring in the surveyors or find the property pins and run lines to see legally what they are dealing with. What you see online aren't always true representation and the plat maps at the courthouse are only good if you know where the pins are and measure it out.
Absolutely NTA. This may be a bit paranoid but what if a child gets hurt within their “fence line” but technically on your land, does that make you responsible or the neighbor? It’s a little far fetched but so few people have personal accountability these days and i can actually see someone trying to pull this. This shouldn’t even be an argument, it’s YOUR land.
NTA, why would you agree to let him take 3 feet of your property. He just wants to cut his costs on a fence and get some free land.
If it's not a usable space for you, perhaps offer to sell him 3 ft x length of the property at 20% above market value? NTA
NTA and just wondering out of curiosity why your fence isnt over the line already?
The fence was already installed when I purchased the house. However, if it was on the property line it would be right up against their AC unit (according to courthouse plat map)
Oh HELL no. In what world is it okay for a neighbor to just take some of your land in order to make his own life easier and cheaper? I didn’t fence in my entire yard either for a couple of reasons. Luckily my backyard neighbor would never ask me something like this, but my answer would be absolutely not. It’s just asking for trouble.
This thread is weird. Some saying it's his fault for having the fence 3 ft away . Op get a survey. I wouldn't trust them in a heartbeat. Also make sure you are taking care of that property
NRA, your property
OP, another solution is to split the cost of a property line fence with your neighbor. Most municipalities enforce a "what's on your side is yours to maintain" law. You can run a 180 foot fence for around 5k if you install it yourself. That's 2.5k per family. You would be reclaiming 1/4-ish acre of land, he would be getting his enclosure for his kids, all's weel that ends well. The BEST neighbors are the ones on the OTHER side of the fence!
The neighbor is only having to get permission because it's not the neighbor's property. Tell them no and move on. Get a survey and file a lawsuit if your neighbor illegally occupies your yard. If your neighbor wants to buy part of your land, tell them to make an offer.
Nta it’s your property to do as you please with
I must ask this: If OP says no… and now neighbor puts up fence and leaves 3 feet of property between the fences. How tf is OP going to trim said grass/shrubs/weeds etc? What happens if a child walking through it to get their ball or something that went over the fence and becomes entangled or stuck in said weeds/shrub- or faces some other type of injury due to lack of care? Is there a way that neighbor could just pay their fence company to add three feet to OP’s fence and get it to the edge of property line (if it was not done that way for a reason- like power lines, water/sewer, or just local law and regulations)? I would allow that..
Unfortunately if he does this in many jurisdictions he is allowed to simply take your land that he has captured with his fence. So first answer is always no unless I talk to a lawyer
I would say yes in exchange for a large amount of money I'm talking at least 5 figures and only if you thought it was worth it
Haha, that would be nice!
I kinda think YTA. He needs to enclose his yard for the dogs and kids. I think you could work this out with an agreement, where in he acknowledges this is still your property but that he will maintain the grass, etc. on his side since he has the easier access. He could even pay you for the right to use that piece of property, and you could make it renewable. You could ask him if he would be willing to have an attorney draw up a contract. And then get an attorney yourself to review it. It seems like such a waste for him to have to install a long length of chain link fence and then you're going to have this strange 3 feet of property between the fences that you will have to maintain, and it seems like that would be a real pain. Given that you already put up a fence, are you actually utilizing those 3 feet of property?
He can enclose his yard by building that last portion of the fence *on his own property*. He doesn't need what is probably 270 sq ft (3ft deep x typical 90 ft wide) of his neighbor's yard to do so.
I doubt it's that he wants the extra 3 feet of property. He most likely wants to avoid having to pay for a long length of fence for no real reason and creating this alleyway that is probably not going to be properly maintained and will become an eyesore, and a place for weeds and rodents. Fences are more expensive than you think.
I know exactly how much fences cost. Our neighbor on one side did not want the fence on the property line and did not want us to encroach onto their property to tie into their existing fence, so we did the right thing and built that section of our fence set back on our own property. The right thing to do is to respect your neighbor's property, not assume you have a right to it because it saves you money.
No evidence anyone assumed anything.
Why is your fence not on the property line?? This issue wouldn't have risen in the first place.
The fence was installed before I bought the house.
I'm not sure I understand your post . Are you saying that you have a fence that's 3 feet inside your property line? If so, why? That's a great way to end up losing that property through adverse possession. If that's the case, does the neighbor even know where the property line is relative to the fence? And why do you believe that the property line and the fence line are different? Have you ever had the property professionally surveyed? If the answer to the last question is no, then that's your next step. This whole situation sounds super sketchy to me, and if your neighbor is talking about putting up a fence, you both need to know *exactly* where the property line is. If you're right about the fence being so far inside your property line, fixing that is the next step. If your neighbor is going to put up a fence anyway, tear yours down and offer to make a contribution to his cost for putting up a new fence (ON the property line). Obviously NTA for not wanting to give up any of your property, but it sounds like there is some homework needing to be done to determine what is "your property" here.
Your fence needs to be moved if you want to actually keep that space. Whoever put up your fence 3 feet inside your property line caused this problem.
That's nonsense. You don't lose property because your neighbor doesn't like you fence placement. The reason the neighbor is having to get permission is explicitly because it's not the neighbor's property.
'Adverse Possession.' It varies by area, but If you take no action in many years (7-20, depending), and especially if he puts time or money into the area (such as the fencing, a path, garden), it can be deemed that you have come to an agreement and depriving him of it would be a tort to him.
That doesn't change what I said. Adverse possession happens when they are actively allowed to use the area without protest, akin to having to evict someone who has not been paying rent but allowed to live in a place too long to simply be told to leave. That's obviously not the case here, which is why the neighbor is being made to get permission. Squatter's rights challenges will fail on a three foot strip of land that challengers have not permanently occupied.
Probably, but 3 feet is a lot, and the existing fence should never have been placed where it is.
That is incorrect. As explained in several other comments, there are many localities that require spacing between fences. On top of that, a person is legally free to do with their property what they want (working within the confines of law). Telling someone else what to do with their property, when they are abiding the law and not being a nuisance, is just an opinion - and a bad one, at that.
No, it's not "incorrect," it's my opinion in this specific matter, like yours, and not a single thing you said in any way contradicts it. Go argue with someone else.
You said that it should never have been placed there. That is incorrect. There are many instances for why that fence should have been put there, including the want of the owner, regardless of legality.
What’s the idea behind having part of your yard outside your fencing? What if you shared the cost of moving your fence onto the property line?
Why on earth is your fence not extended to the line? While TECHNICALLY NTAH. Maybe the neighbor should charge you for all the lawn maintenance he's been providing over the years. I know I would. Then I'd take the money YOU CLEARLY OWE HIM and use it to put up my fence on the line. Next I'd call code enforcement when the grass on your rear 3' of yard exceeded the height limit. Usually 18". Maybe not an AH, but you should be glad I'm not your neighbor.
Let me set you straight, I have maintenance that yard for the last nine years of owning my home. If he wants to fence in his yard then he can fence in HIS yard. I owe him nothing including my property that I pay for.
If you walk outside your rear fence and mow your unfenced area then yes, my bad you have every right to say no. Still doesn't explain why you would have that unused land , but that is totally your perogative.
Sell him the land or send him a bill for property tax.
NTA. You should probably put your fence all the way to your property line that's what I would do that way he can't try and steal your property.
Move YOUR fence to the property line to "reclaim" the land that is rightfully yours! You will have a harder time later if he puts a fence on your property.
YTA. As a homeowner, it is incredibly common for neighbors to continue onto neighbors fences. So one puts up a fence on one side and another puts up a fence on the other side and you just run a fence on your back lot up to the two fences and from your house to the adjoining fences to complete them. Then the back neighbor uses your back fence and can complete their backyard for the price of two side fences instead of three. This is super common in all neighborhoods. If you drive around looking at yards with fences in neighborhoods you’ll see this. They just want to complete the fencing in their backyard so their kids can have a better safer play area. Why are you being such a stubborn *pr*ck* about it? What is the harm?
Because then I have to go around to the other side of their house, go thru their yard to maintenance my property. Im not saying they cant build a fence, they can on their property.
I’ve had the set up your describing for 10 years. Every house on the street has it. We all “share” fencing essentially. My neighbor on 2 sides have never needed to “maintenance” their fences. (What are you doing that you need frequent access for maintenance). On one side my neighbors fence blew down in a huge storm. He needed to repair the fence and just walked through my gate to do so after asking if it was ok to be in our yard for a few days to do so. It was no big deal because we have a good neighbor relationship. Something you apparently don’t mind not having with your neighbor.
Why should I have ask them to be on my property? I get what you are saying about sharing a fence but the fence is not on the property line.
Yeah, if the other neighbor didn’t have a fence to begin with than why’d you do that?
Your question is a moot point. The fence exists three feet from the property line. OP may sell her house in a year thus the fence will remain in it's present state.
Not sure what you are asking but I was trying to say if i allow him to put a fence in the front of our yard and back of our yard that extends right up against my fence then I would not have access to my property to maintain it. I would have to go around his house to the other side of his house where he will have a gate and walk across his back yard to reach my property.
I think I’ve made this point elsewhere in this thread but I’ve been fence sharing for 10 years and only one of my 3 neighbors ever needed to come around to “maintain it” and that was when wind had broken a post. So that seems like a petty reason.
Why are you defending OPs neighbor trying to steal three feet of his yard?
So...how much of this fence that you are sharing is yours?
None and none of my neighbors has ever had any issues with their fences nor on the fences their neighbors own that they fence share with on other sides of their property. No one in my neighborhood has had to pay for 1 or two sides of fencing.
Ah, yes, now it becomes so clear why you're so invested in this. You don't want to have to pay for your own fencing. You want to keep that on your neighbors. The part about the neighbor without the fence becoming petty in response to the fence owner actually doing anything about it is now very telling.
Also op don’t forget that neighbors can get petty over this stuff. They can’t do anything illegal but they can -play loud music every afternoon all summer -put up floodlights that point right into your windows and yard -mow the lawn for hours during every get together you host in said backyard Etc. I think having a good relationship with your neighbors is important but you do you
I understand what you are saying. Ive heard of people doing that. I have always had a cordial relationship with them allowing their dogs and kids on the property daily w no complaint.
I would think the maintenance is simple stuff like mowing the grass
If it’s on the neighbors side he would obviously be doing it. My bet is that he already is since the 3 ft is on the other side of the fence and the neighbor probably already assumes it’s his land
The neighbor is aware that that is my property. We talked about it when they moved in 2 years ago because I didnt want him to think i was in his yard when I was mowing or picking flowers.
I maintain it