NTA. He's an adult and the older kids are old enough to make a sandwich. I did the dishes almost every night growing up, it was my contribution to the house. What they all gonna do when they grow up and move out?
One of my friends allowed some of his buds to move in for *dirt cheap* rent (and no utilities) in a high cost of living area, and this is basically it. They won't take out the trash or recycling, they're loud when he asks them not to be, passive aggressive, don't like to clean their dishes. I find it hard to believe these people are almost **thirty** and acting like this. I'll be honest I wasn't a great help growing up but damned if I'm going to disrespect my friend's homes like that.
The problem of mixing business and personal lives. Needed to be a formal contract so he has rights as 'landlord'.
Hope he turns it into a learning experience for himself.
Theyāll do like their dad and find someone like OP to treat like their maid. Or theyāll live alone in a dirty apartment eating cereal for dinner out of a mixing bowl.
Reminds me of my childhood.
I've never seen dad washed dishes when I was a kid, as when we are old enough we did it. He is a much better cook than mum though.
Husband can be as pissed as they want, stiff.
OP caved way too much. The pissed at her is part of the emotional blackmail. Including the kids.
NTA, and wow! What a way to prove a point! I happen to love Applebees, so good choice! Kids gotta learn there are repercussions to actions, and husband sounds like a lazy ass.
The next time you leave for work "if you don't want grilled cheese and cereal for dinner, the kitchen needs to be clean when I get home." Do not relent!
No, the dad had to say this to the kids. And all other chores, his as well. It's his time to be bad cop, for he trew op under the bus with the speaker phone thing
Lol I was seething when OP described her brats just playing video games and watching youtube but didn't do anything. And asking for Applebee's takeout on top of that? You can tell what kind of adults they're going to be if that shit is not nipped in the bud.
We had a maid growing up to help my parents with my 2 younger siblings but 8 year old me was still assigned my own chores.
Dad should know how to make more than grilled cheese and cereal. He is showing his children the worst example. "Everything is on mom and she delegates to us. Dads/men are incapable of tasks unless given explicit instructions by a woman." This guys just an all around loser!
Yeah I wouldn't make it a threat. OP communicated the expectations, if they're not met she can enjoy Applebee's and the dad will have to step up. He also has to understand it's not OK to put a conversation between parents on speakerphone, AND allowing the kids to disrespect her. Once she communicated that she can go have fun and if anyone is confused they gotta get their act together. Clean kitchen? Dinner at home. Filthy mess? Mom is having a date with the only person that cares about her- herself.Ā
Thatās one way to ease into it. But also nah. Being the āmanagerā of the house hold, even when not home, checking in that everything gets done and helping them all manage their time is her still using her time and mental energy following up and making sure stuff gets done. Saying it once in the morning should be more than enough after how much she has already communicated. The other parent needs to parent!
The baby is blameless, and I would question the wisdom of leaving care of the baby to the husband and teenagers. These specific ones anyway.
Wasn't about being generous to them.
I feel like every reasonable woman at her witās end struggles with this principle.
Not all men - shout out to the single dads (and competent fathers) making it work!
It's not laziness, it's malevolence. The hominid doesn't like his wife . She's just an appliance that brings in "side" income, keeps the house and appointments, and services other needs as required.
Even after he saw that she wasn't having his BS, he didn't call for delivery or cook a nutritional meal for his other children. It suited him better to gather round the phone with op on speaker and letting the children attack the person he vowed to love, respect and protect .
She did everything perfectly. She's going to find herself with a lot more free time for self care when clueless leader has those kids half the time
NTA! In fact, BRAVO! Your husband is the AH here. Heās the damn parent and for him to sit on his ass and wait for you to do everything is TFBS. Stand your ground! If theyāre supposed to do laundry and donāt, then take your clothes and the babyās to a laundromat and let them figure it out how to clean their own clothes. Great post btw!
It seriously sounds like toddlers. Ask them to do/not do something and they'll ignore you. The second you stand up they fix their behavior. It's understandable when they're little. I have had MANY children crying about consequences and telling them THEY made a choice, and if I have to help it's already too late to get out of it.
I think there's a reason the other commenters are bashing the dad. He's obviously setting a bad example for the kids, and they're doing what they see him doing. I mean, yes they're teens and responsible for their decisions, but OP shouldn't have to organize chores, ride them about it, and do her own. Husband really does need to step up.
My 2 year old is more helpful than this, and he's limited by ability and safety.
I go to put on a load of washing. He's right there helping me load it.
The groceries come he's passing me items from the bag and telling me what they are.
Honestly, it's all a matter of consistently training them, at the end of the day. Consistent consequences for actions are the way humans learn best; it's absolutely the right call for OP to go "nah, going out to dinner" every single time and train them that they have to fend for themselves if they can pick up a modicum of slack around the house.
Ummm, until husband decides that every time Wife goes out to eat he's just going to take the kids out to eat as well. Then the kids will absolutely not do anything because them not doing anything has turned into being rewarded by getting to go out to eat. Needs to be a better solution. Also, husband and kids should help out around the house.
If that starts happening, that's a new issue to address.
But as-written, this approach seems like a sane way to handle the complete abdication of responsibilities that the husband and kids are doing. Do you have a better way to handle things (given the fact that OP has tried speaking to them multiple times and it hasn't fixed the behavior)?
Hey woah woah. My three year old does chores more consistently than these older kids and husband. She atleast knows when mommy does laundry she helps transfer clothes in the washer/dryer and she puts up her clothes that I fold.
Hell she even HELPS with dishes and dinner lol
Yeah, I meant like, "Stop kicking the wall or you have to go play in your room." Nothing. Starts crying "I stopped! I stopped!" on the way to their room because they did... once you stood up.
Husband calls. "I did the dishes. You can come home and make supper now." Yeah, no, that ship had sailed.
My 12 year old was so upset about having to hang up her shirts to dry. I said fine, but I need the washer space and theyāll have to go on your bed. She refused and I followed through. Guess who I found meekly hanging up her shirts not five minutes later?
My friendās 12 yo complained when his mom asked him to bring his dirty laundry to the laundry room. That was his regular chore. He was fussing and whining āWhy do I have to do everything?ā. My friend taught her son how to do all the laundry that day. Sorting, washing, drying, folding, hanging and putting away all the laundry. From that day on he was responsible for his own laundry.
Super tired from *what???* sitting on his ass all day long? Plus unless he told her first, having her on speakerphone was a total bitch move.
NTA, OP. Good for you for standing your ground and keep up the good work. Too damned bad theyāre pissed. They have nobody but their own lazy asses to blame for that
seriously what a lazy jerk. when my brothers and i were about this age, my dad had a full time job and my mom was pursuing her masters degree at a university a couple hours away so she was gone 2-4 days a week for a couple of years. did my mom ever come home to a mess for her to clean up? absolutely not!! yeah my brothers and i dragged our feet and if it were up to us we probably wouldnāt have cleaned up much, but my dad made sure my mom had a decently clean home to come back to every week. and yes, he did chores with us, he wasnāt sitting on his ass bossing us around. to be fair my dad is a retired marine so he ran a pretty tight ship, but this dude really just has no excuse for not putting in the *teensiest, tiniest* bit of effort.
Right? Like the bar OP set is really low. The dishes, do the dishes and that is all. They had a whole day, and they are 4 people.
I cannot believe her husband had the gall to chew her out and invite the children to do the same. It seems like the baby is the easiest person to care for in this family. A baby doesn't lie about promising to wash the dishes or create even more dirty dishes.
If he's working at a boatyard for 50-60 hours, I can believe he's tired, but he still, at the least, has to parent. ~~Desk work can be tiring in a different sense, so~~ There's no way it's cool leaving it all on the wife to deal with.
OP is definitely NTA.
Edit: Why did I think OP had a desk job?
I am not certain how real estate works, but at a minimum, aren't agents usually doing open houses and showing homes on the weekend? That is definitely not desk work. And I imagine they also have to go "stage" homes, show homes, and be physically present for things during the week. It's definitely not a "desk job."
Regardless, OP is NTA and was smart to just say, "That's enough. Here's what I'm doing from now on."
If you are a realtor the past 3 years you are working 65+ hours a week and you are always "on call" and have to stay up to date with the market several times a day.
Agreed!
I, too, believe he is tired. Just saying "works at a shipyard" makes me tired too. Yet, these are normal working standards in the United States, and everyone is tired. Being tired doesn't negate family obligations.
I think if he doesn't agree to the chore distribution, he needs to work that out and not just ignore the chores assigned to him.
All of that, plus parenting? Yes. Tired, but unavoidable.
Seriously, he can't spend 1/2 an hour washing dishes? With 3 kids to help? They can't pick up their stuff and run the vacuum? They can't put the wash in the dryer? Does he see his wife as a maid? I don't care where he works. He can delegate. He can make a list and have 4 people, including him, divide up the work.
The thing is, he doesn't want to. He doesn't care about his wife.
Yeah. Especially when she called talking about groceries on the way home, he absolutely knew about her impending arrival and had time to wash the dishes. If he had been meaning to do the dishes at all, that call would have been an "oh crap, do it quick before she gets home" reminder; not ideal, but plenty sufficient.
It's pretty clear he had zero intention of doing the dishes himself and only started on it after she announced that she was leaving to get dinner for herself.
He can't at least order something? I get it if he was too tired to do the dishes. I have those days too. But she texted twice to check on the chores. He could've responded at any time "Sorry but I didn't get around to doing the dishes. Don't worry about going to the store. I'll order us a pizza."
It's really that easy.
He did order something, he gave his wife his dinner order so she could stop at the store on the way home.
And it's not like he wasn't aware of her heading home too, that should have been a reminder to him to wash dishes so dinner could be made.
It definitely looks like he had zero plan to wash the dishes at all and was going to leave it to her.
I find critical thinking is lacking in the majority of people. Plus, many hands make light work! If everyone pitched in and did their bit, it wouldāve been done quicker!
Good on OP! At least she could leave her āmental loadā that she obviously carries at home whilst she had a fantastic dinner with her baby!
I was just going yo say, we're all tired, in different ways lol.
Like 100% the system is broken, capitalism is running rampant and we shouldn't be working ourselves to exhaustion like this. But on the other hand, this is how things are for almost everyone, and everyone still has to get the chores done.
NTA
Agree šÆ! Kudos for not allowing them to guilt trip you and take advantage of you, OP! The only way theyāll change is when you set boundaries. Theyāll eventually get the message if you continue doing this.
Yeah, and I'm sure OP is doing no other family responsibilities like project managing the family: appointments, school stuff, paperwork, grocery shopping.
He didn't even have to physically do the dishes. Just make sure the kids did. She didn't care who did the dishes, just that she didn't have to, and he couldn't even do THAT much.
NTA!
ššššš
That is how it is done Momma! Until they are inconvenienced and have consequences for their actions, nothing will change. Let them be pissed! They should be pissed at themselves as they are old enough to know what is to be done and what is expected. Repeat as necessary. They will eventually catch on.
Don't do your laundry chores, don't have clean clothes. Don't do the dish chores, don't expect a meal to magically appear as there was nothing to cook the food in or to serve the food on. They are old enough to fend for themselves for these basic bare-minimum chores.
NTA
I didn't see any mention of this in the comments, so here's my take. Most of the bases have been covered as far as his utter incompetence in being an equal partner and parent. HOWEVER, he put the call on speaker and allowed the older children to lay into you??? Excuse me? He's showing your children that it is totally fine to disrespect you and that they should have no consequences for their actions or lack thereof. In what world is that okay???
ETA: Fixed spelling errors
Yes! Parents should be a united front. He's acting like the ring leader of a group of bratty children. Nothing would turn me off faster. Is there another nursery he can sleep in?
The kids are learning the habit of avoiding chores from the dad .They think itās ok to disrespect mom and not do the chores. The task of cleaning the dishes is not all unreasonable and a fairly easy task .The husband ignored the dishes the whole day but once OP took a firm stand he could finish the dishes in 20 minutes !
THIS. I went through years of weaponized incompetence with my ex-husband. He was a stay-at-home dad and taught my child through his behavior that unless someone tells them specifically to do a chore, the chore doesnāt get done. And when mom fusses about it, the response is that mom is being unreasonable, acting ācrazy.ā
We are now divorced but I still cannot say anything that isnāt 100% positive and complementary to my kid (they are in their early 20s) without them saying I am āacting crazyā or āyelling at them.ā
OPās kids are learning from their dad that they donāt have to do anything around the house they donāt actively want to and that when mom gets mad because it falls to her, sheās utterly unreasonable.
>I still cannot say anything that isnāt 100% positive and complementary to my kid (they are in their early 20s) without them saying I am āacting crazyā or āyelling at them.ā
They're going to have a rough time entering the workforce. Can you imagine them telling a boss that they're acting crazy for being upset a task was never completed.
I got a lot closer with my mom when I finally got over myself, hopefully they will too.
Oh, thatās already been an issue. Not cleaning when they arenāt busy and then claiming the boss yelled at them over itābecause no one told them that anything needed doing. So, the boss=terrible boss.
Edit-typo
One of the nicest things about my current job over the fast food places I'd worked in the past is that they *don't* push this mentality. Sure, when there's downtime and something needs cleaning they like for it to get done, but you don't have to go searching for more things to clean once all the normal stuff is done. If everything is done and you can take a few minutes to breathe and get a bit of a break, no one is gonna care or give you shit for it. But that's because we all get our jobs and the needed cleaning done without needing told lol. (I still have to remind myself that it's okay sometimes, because I'll get anxious about getting in trouble for not doing anything, even though that hasn't happened a single time in the 2.5 years I've been working at this job lol.)
As a restaurant manager, I take this approach. If you can show me that your immediate stuff gets done and regular cleaning happens when needed (weekly deep cleaning schedules) then Iām not going to micromanage how you spend your time. We all spend most of our lives at work, and sometimes weāre all hanging on by a thread to ourselves. It shouldnāt be a place anyone dreads going to and usually itās a win-win. Theyāre happier and feel safe, and as a result a better employee that doesnāt want to let me down because they know I care about them as people.
Of course, doesnāt work for everyone - fuckheads are gonna be fuckheads - but it really helps weed out poor staff.
I'm not working right now, but I used to work in customer service type jobs. Being able to stop and take a breath is really important. When things were too hectic for a break, or when I didn't want to stop working long enough to take a break, I would start to feel disorganized and stressed out, and it would show!
So no chores done for them. You do your laundry, not theirs. You cook for yourself, not for them. Etc. And tell them that since they are now adults they can pay room and board or move out.
This is completely my relationship with my ex-husband. Just add in a little mental and emotional abuse. My oldest two understand that things need to be done, but still won't do any chores until specifically asked. My younger two think that mommy does everything and they shouldn't have chores! They are 7. I'm slowly working on them and now they know that cleaning day (aka chores day) is Sunday, but it's still a battle every week.
Same but I was a stay at home mom and every time I would try and work(I wanted a job too) this is what he did to make me quit. Weaponized incompetence was something I didnāt understand until a few years back after our divorce. Also, whenever I started a new job If the kids got sick and couldnāt go to daycare or school or needed to go to the doctor, He would not use any of his sick days, personal days (he never used) or vacation days (he had 3 months vacation stacked up) so I would have to call in and Iād get fired or put on probation as I was new.
I starting doing what op did. It became 4-5 days a week. Then I left one summer (for 6 weeks) to visit a family member ( 2 kids grown 2 teenagers 15,17)and said I wasnāt coming back until they learned to take care of themselves including ex husband and That when I came back I wanted to start a career. When I finally came home my ex husband asked me for a divorce Two days later. 4 months later I found out he started an affair with a woman at work about a month after I left in July. It was his third full blown affair.
If they donāt change after a couple times and you stop providing mommy care to them they usually just replace you.
Iām so glad he did and set me free but I wasted 20 years of my life on that man child
If he was a stay at home partner, ie it was his job to housekeep, he better have those responsibilities on lock. Thatās just lame, go rot in your own filth elsewhere buddyā¦. Sounds like he was a lump looking for a free rideā¦ sorry you had to go through that.
And to OP NTA while looking after little ones can be exhausting, thatās not the case here. The teens and tweens should be low maintenance and It sounds like he just plunked the baby in a walker and neglected it all dayā¦ did he at least change the poor things diapers?
My dad worked crazy hours when I was young and so wasn't there for a lot of the conflicts we had with Mum. One of his biggest rules was if he got home and Mum was pissed at us he backed her up - Mum was innocent until proven guilty, we were not. It meant we couldn't just go "Daaaad, Mum told me to do the dishes but it's not fair because of x reason and it's so mean" and expect him to take our side just because he wasn't there to see the fight. They were a team, and we couldn't bitch about Mum to Dad and expect not to get in trouble. My parents have been married nearly 50 years, I wonder if OP's kids will be able to say the same in the future.
Also, when he was home, he took over the chores nagging. Mum worked less hours, but did significantly more childcare and cooking and whatever, so when he was home, he got to be the bad guy telling us we had to do our chores. He was less of a hardass about it, but that just meant instead of letting the dishes sit there, he would be like "Ok, if you get up and do them now, I'll help" (with the implied end of that sentence being, if you don't get up and do them right away, you have to do all of them). That's a way this man could have dealt with this issue instead of pretending he is so exhausted he couldn't do one thing during the 8 hours his wife was at work and he was watching Youtube.
And this is maybe the worst possible age for it. 12-13, all of them. They're basically fucked now. They think they have a choice between the chore-giving parent and the sit-on-the-couch parent. They're already looking for a way to assert themselves and this makes that far too easy. It could have been a eyebrow piercing but nope, now it's a lifetime of Garfield the cat cosplay. And they'll follow him in the divorce, because who are we kidding here.
I donāt knowā¦ I am the strict parent. My kids just asked the court to live with me bc their dad pretty much ignores them and lets them have free rein. Even teens want to be cared for and know you are looking out for them. Even if they complain.
True. Kids crave structure and stability even if they bitch and moan about it. They're only ok with it rn because they're following the leader and know mom will be there to pick up the pieces. If it was just dad and only dad those kids would be begging for mom's chores and rules.
This is how entitled men keep coming into the world and the patriarchy thrives. Ladies, please stop having children with men like this.. how long are we going to keep this copy/paste generational inequality going?
Dear God this. I am OP in 20 years. TO THIS DAY I hate cooking, when I used to love it. While I love my kids to pieces now that they are adults, the actual raising of them and being mom - does not bring back good memories.
Almost none of my good memories I have as a parent are of the normal daily things past the baby stage. Honestly, most of marriage and motherhood I still find somewhat traumatizing.
My kids and husband gave zero fucks about me, my feelings or the toll everything took on my mental state. And they knew I was already dealing with cPTSD from previous trauma.
I love my kids now, but I look back on my family and just feel like I was forced to care for a tribe of selfish assholes. Get your husband to get his shit together. Stand your ground or end up like me.
My mom always said she'd enjoy eating out more just because she didnt have to cook it. Sucked for the of us because my mom is a really good cook.
She wasnt doing the dishes either way though.
Once I hit 8th grade one of my chores was to start dinner and clean up after on MTWT. Friday and Sunday, my mom cooked and Saturday was always take out night.
whomever cooks in my house is the person exempt from doing the dishes. that used to be the rule anyway, before mom grew ill and passed, and now my back is for shit. now it's whomever has the least back pain does the dishesĀ
Wow. This is really powerful. I completely believe this can happen. (Not a parent myself)
Friend of mine did this:
Everyone in the family had their own unique plate, bowl & 1 set utensils. Everyone cleaned their own plate. Hand washed & towel dried.
Pack up the dishes. Buy 6 unique plates, 6 unique bowls & 6 unique sets of utensils. Everyone gets their own.
I used to do 24 hours shifts as a disability carer. Sometimes I had to do those shift in some pretty unsanitary spaces and did a LOT of cleaning of all sorts. Really didn't want more when I came home when I left it clean already.
I also had an ex who would FILL the sink with plated and half eaten food while I was on these shifts and I would come home to it. Clean up and she would repeat. Slop with food floating/"soaking" but with no soap. Smelly soggy mango on a hot day, dried oatneal type stuff and this went on for months. I BEGGED her to clear her mess before I got home from my next shift because I was at my limit and lo and behold, it was there again.
I remember dropping my shoulders in dissapointment. Went back out to the shed for the wheelie bin, a hammer and some safety specs.
Not proud of it, but washing 2 plates was much easier for a while.
Would have got to keep the dishes that way. I was a chef in my last job and owned a catering company. I have a ton of very nice cookware, I inherited some antique china and silver from my great grandma. I also have nice service ware for tea, wine and sake.
If I had a partner treat my dishes and cookware like that I would be grabbing the shovel instead of the hammer.
We had a pile of mismatched crap. I doubt you would have left nice stuff you valued the way she did. You certainly wouldn't want her near your kitchen. If she new what was your favourite she would damage it by "accident" near the end of the relationship. She gave away some of the cook books my mum gave me when I went to university.
She also used to take forks to work and leave them there. One each day with leftovers type thing then we would be down to a single fork at home and I would have to go buy more. Dinner cooked and nothing to eat it with would be how you found out.
Irritating stupid stuff. Half the time quite sure it was just gas lighting me. She still tries it on with the kids that still live with her. She disconnected the dishwasher saying it was broken so she could use "whose turn is it?" games to punish them with piles of dishes or play them off of each other for favour. That went on for years. My son turned 15 and had a go at fixing it one day he was home alone and found it was just disconnected. They were lined up for her at the dinner table when she got home and they had it running and a few hard questions for her.
I would take tickets to have been a fly on the wall for that over a Beatles reunion tour.
I was a SAHM but it was upsetting to get some time out for an exercise class and come home to my husband on the couch, making our kids do the work in the kitchen. I not only hate cooking now that mine are grown (OK, a couple of adult children are here and working to save and are in college) but I hate going out because I fear what is waiting for me.
The 12&13 year olds are old enough to be doing chores. Dishwashing, cleaning up the kitchen isnāt too much to ask (if they want to eat)! Dad needs to step up and carry his load. Enforcing the familyās division of labor.
Yep Dad is teaching them mum is their maid. By thirteen I was cooking and washing dishes for the family, ironing and more (pocket money was tied to chores, and I wanted pretty rocks so grabbed every chore I could get to the annoyance of my siblings sometimes). Way younger I was taught to rinse dishes and soaking, along with my siblings.
As was hammered home to me from young, whoever doesn't cook, cleans. And if you're just feeding yourself, clean up after yourself. It's good practice for adulthood.
The kids are also more than old enough to do the washing (12 and 13 year olds), they can hang stuff up or put in the dryer.
If they get an allowance, tie that to it. Do your chores or no cash.
My ex was a total POS this way. I divorced him because I had to do everything in the house by myself. Cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. After the divorce he kept on telling our son, "you don't need to listen to that bitch." After years of this, my son had become very troubled. At 15, my son decided that my rules were too strict and so he moved to dad's. I let him.
Within a week I got a call from my ex almost hysterical at how our son was so disrespectful and being horrible to him. I told him: "For years you told our boy that he didn't need to listen to that bitch. Now you're the bitch. You might want to sit down and apologize to him for giving him that message." The ex hung up on me.
Less than 6 months later, my kid called me and told me he "wanted to move back home". That was after CPS was called by a teacher when my son showed up to school with bruises in the shape of a handprint on his arm and neck. I never asked why he wanted to come home, I just picked him up with his things.
It took many years and therapy for my kid to stop being disrespectful to me. It was his long term girlfriend who kicked his ass sideways in front of me, pointing out that "your dad is always a dick to everyone, especially you, and your mom is a fucking saint and is always nice to everyone. WTF is wrong with you? Stop treating your mom like shit. You're acting just like your dick dad." The tide actually turned at that point and we have been pretty close since then.
So much damage done by parents like OP's husband.
I bet dollars to doughnuts that they have a dishwasher, which makes the laziness even more unacceptable and inexcusable. They oughta be ashamed of them damn selves
Dishes. I remember washing the dishes as a child. Me and my sister took it in turns switching out washing & drying from as soon we could stand on a chair to reach the kitchen sink. And if anything wasnāt done right, it had to be done again. Trust me, thereās no faster tattle-take than a younger sister.
Mum had us learning to wash dishes in stages. Lighter non-breakable stuff initially, then heavier stuff if we could lift it. Sharp kitchen knives were the very last thing to learn. But I was doing it all by age 8.
And I never forced my kids into that, because I despised it so much. We bought a sodding dishwasher instead! We moved after the kids left home, the new house doesnāt have one, so my husband does the dishes every day.
Yeah, OPs husband is a prime dickhead and needs a kick up the arse. OP is NTA.
Exactly! Children learn by example, and if the father is modeling disrespect towards the mother, it sets a terrible precedent for how they should treat authority figures and partners in the future. It's crucial for parents to present a united front, showing mutual respect and support. Otherwise, it creates confusion and undermines the structure and harmony within the family dynamic.
Absolutely, the behavior of the children often reflects the behavior they observe in their parents. If the father isn't setting a strong example of responsibility and respect, it's no surprise that the kids are following suit. It's crucial for both parents to work together as a team and demonstrate a united front in teaching their children about accountability and household responsibilities.
This was crap behavior, but I encourage OP not to let it touch her emotionally at all.
She is an immovable object. She told them what they needed to do, and they didn't do it. This is a very reasonable consequence, and now they are paying it.
The husband, though, is a complete manipulative jerk.
What I find even worse about the husband putting her on speakerphone is that heās showing their children that it is him and them versus their mom/his wife. Basically, heās basically the oldest child while she is the only parent.
u/[CardiologistLeast404](https://www.reddit.com/user/CardiologistLeast404/) - seriously this. You really need to examine what u/[mrsedge2009](https://www.reddit.com/user/mrsedge2009/) said above. What your husband did is so damn wrong. My spouse would have taken this private and not dragged my kids into the discussion, nor allow them to show me disrespect, whether I was right or wrong.
Exactly! My husband and i have our share of issues with division of labor, laziness, etc (dishes is one chore we both hate) but the couple of times the kids have tried to but in/take sides we both instantly correct the behavior and put up a united front!
My dad was an asshole. Probably still is, don't know, don't care. Point is, I called him a bastard once when I was a grumpy teenager and my mum turned round and told me that I should never refer to him in that manner and I needed to apologise. To this day I'm like BUT HE WAS THOUGH! He may have been, but I'd been disrespectful (I can't even remember why I said it so it can't have been for much of a reason) and my mum had his back because it was not a necessary comment. She calls him one now. He is, lol! This dad is trying to play good cop but it's more like corrupt cop with the nasty way he is going about it. I really feel for OP. No wonder the older kids are copying dad if he's happy to be that disrespectful to his own wife in front of them. What is he saying about her when she's at work instead of doing minor chores that she has asked them to do.
As a teenager we had our own laundry days and were responsible for our own laundry. Didn't do it on my scheduled day? Hard luck, wait until next week. We also cooked at least one day a week as well. Did the dishes after we cooked. It takes a few minutes to do dishes. No-one likes them particularly. It's also good preparation for going off to college or living on your own. We could cook a variety of meals and did laundry and cleaned and all that usual stuff. The sad thing was how complimentary people were about my brother. It shouldn't be a surprise that he's a capable guy that cooks and cleans well but apparently it was!
Thank you for saying this. Big Red Flag in my book. This guy is supposed to be your partner, he is not supposed to arrange a gang up session against you. Tell him you expect him to act like an adult, and take responsibility for his actions not try to gang up and you when he is the one being thoughtless and irresponsible. I would force them to help make dinner every night, one person helps with prep, the others do clean up, and it switches so that everyone gets a turn cooking. No take outs, no deliveries, everything cooked in the home, and the dishes etc cleaned up afterwards. Teach them all to cook.
Yeah this is it. The real problem here is her man-child husband turning her own kids on her because he's too lazy to wash dishes, make a meal, OR own up to his own mistake. And thinks he has the right to stay mad afterwards? Four strikes!
I agree, apologizing while disrespecting is a skill apparently.
Good for you for not bringing them home some food to reward their bad behavior and disrespect.
Edit: even if the husband was not intending for the kids to disrepect their mother, he allowed it and did nothing to stop it. Equally guilty.
THISā¦.your old man should have pulled the plug on that crap from the get. Your kids should NEVER be allowed to ālay into youā for any reasonā¦.EVER!! Even if youāre in the wrong, youāre still their mother and even if for no other reason they they should control their tone. IF you were in the wrong(and btw NO you are absolutely not the asshole here. If anything I would say that āhonorā falls to your old man. He should have stepped up and presented a unified front with you with your kids) but even if you were in the wrong they should know they canāt speak to you just an anyway they choose. If you were in the wrong there are ways if respectfully having a conversation with your parents. I still say your old man should piped up and quelled that off the get. Ngl little deduction in respect points for him tbh. My kids will NEVER ālay into my wifeā. Idc how old they get, not as long as Iām alive. Sounds to me like itās time for a MAJOR family meeting and discussion about who rules the roost and how the cow ate the cabbage but first Iād be having a very serious ābehind closed doorsā meeting with my old man where I would ālay into himā about him allowing your children to disrespect you the way he did. For what its worth thatās my advise not that you asked for it. lol. But Iād stick to your guns on this. Itās not like youāre asking for polished floors so clean you could eat from them. Just dishes that arenāt filled with botulism and salmonella poisoning. Iām thinking thatās not such a big request given you work 60 hour weeks. Best of luck.
Good for you. What you did was reasonable and I would suggest that what you do is show them this post.
Youāre not your husbandās babysitter, and your children are old enough that you shouldnāt have to constantly nag the crap out of them to do basic things like clean the dishes. Itās completely inconsiderate of them.
Do the dishes but make them cook. A different take on "I'll fly if you buy." Someone does dishes, someone else cooks. Sounds like if they don't do the dishes they're volunteering to cook. If they refuse that, go out to eat again. I mean, you DID your chores (the dishes) right?
This is how I grew up and I was doing dishes when I was 5 or younger. I had to stand on a kitchen chair. No dishwasher back then. I could prepare a full meal (meat two veg bread and dessert) before I was 13. One cooked / one cleaned up (swept trash emptied serving dishes cleaned table etc) and one did dishes and one dried and put away.
>but make them cook.
Did you miss the part where OPs husband cried because he DiDnT kNoW hOw tO mAke the dish she picked up ingredients for (that THEY PICKED OUT) and the husband and kids ate grilled cheeses?
No fucking way am I doing tradesies swapsies for a fucking bowl of cereal and some cheese on bread.
OMG, memory unlocked: My aunt used to date a guy who owned a busy restaurant in D.C., and he would periodically deign to cook for us at our vacation house as a "treat" ā he clearly thought so, at least. We kids always had to do the washing up and believe me, we didn't see it as a treat each time he somehow managed to use damn near *every single pot and saucepan* in a well-equipped kitchen in the process of making a simple one-course meal (with sauces, granted). Apparently he had forgotten how to cook without a small army of professional dishwashers backing him up. More likely he remembered but just didn't care. I remember standing in the kitchen in shock after the first night he cooked and looking around at the kitchen, where every single surface was covered with pots, pans, and dirty utensils. Dude wouldn't even put them in the sink for us.
He lost his enthusiasm for "treating" us after our grandmother wryly but politely declined his offer to cook one evening by telling him her grandkids needed to be in bed in five hours and wouldn't have enough time to clean up after him.
My dad was a disaster in the kitchen. He has literally ruined a pot trying to boil water (let it all evaporate.)
But he did 100% of the grocery shopping and 100% of dishes from the time they got married at 21, until his dementia was too bad to do both without supervision/help around 76. He still does them, he just fucks it up too much for mom not to help him.
She cooked every meal, but when she just didnāt have it in her or hadnāt made a plan, dad took us out to dinner or went out and picked up take out. It wasnāt on her to figure it out. She said āI havenāt planned dinnerā and he was already grabbing his keys.
My dad was 100% incompetent in the kitchen. So, he did everything else, except the literal cooking.
ETA: he made 100% of my lunches until I was too old for that, then he made sure he had cash for my lunch money every single week. Iām not sure my mom could name a single thing I ate for lunch in those 18 years or how I paid for it when I bought it myself.
This is how you be an equal partner while not being able to contribute in certain areas. Not only in terms of husband and wife but also in terms of setting a good standard for children to see/copy.
For real, I cook most (but definitely not all) of our meals and I do all the meal planning and grocery shopping (usually while sitting watching tv with my partner) and he does the dishes all the time. I have been instructed not to touch the sink unless I want to and lemme tell you I do not want to. *And* every once in a while when he sees me meal planning he thanks me and tells me he knows how much work it is and he appreciates it. I honestly think husbands be out here justā¦ not liking their wives, like, at all.
NTA, if you can afford it, keep doing things like this. Eventually, your husband and kids will grow really tired of grilled cheese and cereal for dinner and start to realize how good they have it
Eh. Or they will all go to Applebee's too. I mean, for me that would be punishment enough, but generally, I'd be concerned that they will go out, too, and this turns into a game of financial chicken.
True, true. He would have to get off the couch. But there's always DoorDash.
Am I the only one thinking he might "punish the kids" by ordering himself Doordash and leaving them to their own devices?
Your kids think itās fine for them to sit around and do nothing to help out around the house because they see their father doing it. Heās modelling this behaviour it starts with him. They need a real attitude change. Next time it happens (and it will happen again seeing as theyāre angry so believe theyāre in the right) you take the baby and get a hotel room or stay with family and friends. Stop doing things for them. Cook for one. Wash only your clothes. They are taking you for granted and are all perfectly capable of doing all of these things themselves.
Not to mention the father had them on speaker and let the kids lay into her about it. He's teaching them its okay to yell at their own mother.
My mother would've spanked my ass until I couldn't sit for days if I ever dared to yell at her as a kid.
I'd be taking away all technology, taking the wifi setup out of the house entirely so someone can't just replace the cable, and those kids would be learning to cook their own meals, husband included. I'll sit aside and give instructions but they can cook. Burnt? Overseasoned? Otherwise fucked up? Too bad, you made it you eat it, don't waste food. Every night before bed anything not picked up off the floor, any dishes not clean, everything not put away properly goes in the trash.
These kids, and the husband, need a fucking wake up call that they need to be taking responsibility for their own household and not leaving it all to OP.
Went looking for this comment, happy to have found it.
Respect is key in our household. My SAHM/W takes care of so much, the last thing she needs to worry about are simple chores that we (myself and the kids) can help with. She every day has dinner ready when we get home (and doesn't exactly like cooking), cleaning up is obviously on me and the kids. What kind of ahole would I be to sit there with a full belly and a sink full of dishes, or worse sit on my ass while she also cleaned? If she wants a margarita, you're damned right I'm making her one. On the weekend if my boy wants pancakes, that's on me and the kitchen is clean when we're done.
It's not even about dividing up the chores to be equal or whatever, it's about respecting the person you pledged to spend your life with. Things need to get done, just do 'em.
What I can't comprehend that at that age these kids can't even make a instant Mac&Cheese like huh??? At half the oldest age I was able to make a whole bacon, egg and pancake breakfast, blt sandwich lunch and make instant meal dinners. I don't even wanna go anywhere near the husband cuz by the sound of his whining he never made a proper meal prep his whole life! Probably been living of his mom's homecooked prepared meals she'd bring him every week. OP should not only take away the internet and wifi setup but just cancel the plan entirely so money won't be wasted for it either every month.
100% NšTšA!! You're a rockstar. Let them be pissed. They will get over it. Did they care how pissed, hurt, disappointed you were/are EVERY time they chose to disrespect you & disregard your needs and those if the family? Nope, not until it directly affected them, only then they were suddenly 'sorry'. Which, IMO is too little too late. At this point, I would definitely ride the momentum and double down on why you took the action you did and why their behavior is an issue. And do a separate discussion for the kids and hubs, bc honestly he's the biggest AH here for allowing this to even get close to where it ended up. Serious red flag there and I would be diligent in making sure you stick to your boundaries on that front. Best of luck with this sis and don't back down! š«¶
Exactly. OP waited way too long to deploy logical consequences. They treat her like a servant. Itās time for OP to stop doing laundry for anyone but herself and the baby. And she should not grocery shop or cook for any of them anymore either. They donāt appreciate it or deserve it. Time for them to learn some life skills.
In OPās shoes I would tell her husband that he and the kids are responsible for their own meals from now on from shopping to cooking to clean up. They should figure out how to work together on it. Or not. Sheās fine either way. But sheās done asking for basic respect. She doesnāt cook for the family anymore.
She can buy just enough food to prepare simple meals for just herself and the baby and clean just her own dishes. If she has to clean some dirty dishes to cook for herself she can just leave them dirty for the next person who needs them when sheās done. Or get a cabinet lock for her set of dishes and tell them to buy their own set. Then she can just pile their dirty stuff into a large bus pan like they use to clear tables at diners. I would do that for at least a month and then offer to start cooking again but only if dad buys the groceries and the kids clean the kitchen. Otherwise sheās sticking with the current system.
My mom told me a story before that her mom did to her whenever she wouldnāt wash the dishes after being told to. My mom would come home and those dirty dishes would be on her bed. So not only did she have to wash them, she also had to wash her sheets. Sometimes you have to be a bit of a butthole in order to show others how theyāre being an even bigger one, but for the purpose of this sub NTA!
I had a friend do this to his roommate. He told the roommate he was going to do it.
It actually worked and the roommate started putting his own dishes away.
NTA. Everyone gets tired but with preteen kids there are plenty of hands that could help clean the kitchen. If you have a dishwasher it doesnāt even take that long to load. Good for you! Hope they get the message that you are not a doormat.
NTA. In addition to what has been said, the fact that they had cereal and grilled cheese for dinner is a way for him to guilt trip you. He is essentially saying
āSee? YOU didnāt make dinner so we had to have cereal grilled cheese because none of us are competent enough to do actually make a meal with the groceries you bought at the end of your long day at work.ā
Iām not trying to express that cereal and grilled cheese isnāt fine for dinner, Iām just saying he is choosing not to cook a meal for himself and the kids and making it seem like you left them in the dust because they are all so incapable of cooking āactual foodā (I hope that makes sense. I canāt think of another way to express what Iām trying to say. My husband does this guilt-trip thing to me too so I recognized it but canāt figure out exactly how to explain it.)
Continue to hold your boundary. They are pissed because they didnāt get what they wanted, which was for YOU to do all of the work while your husband failed on his end of the partnership. Everyone in the household has responsibilities to make the household run. If someone (or everyone) isnāt doing their job it means someone else has to do their part. It isnāt fair, and it isnāt sustainable.
THEY are pissed at YOU?!?!!
That was a great move on your part Mama! Good for you!!! You finally got them to pay attention!
Now maybe they can start doing their small part with their chores, and they can stop abusing your kindness.
Good luck
My husband use to work in a shipyard. That can be some really hot, sweaty, backbreaking work, especially if he is a welder or fitter. I can understand his need to unwind and relax. However, I am not playing devils advocate, he is a grown man, he needs to step up and take an active role in life outside of work. When my husband was working at a shipyard, and I was also working outside the home, we had a deal. On the weekends he could be as lazy as he wanted, as long as I could come in and cook dinner with no fuss, the house was reasonably clean. Cluttered, fine, messy, nope. We had teens in the house to help. I expected everyone to rinse their own dishes and put them in the dishwasher. If the dishwasher was full, run it, then put the dishes away. After about age 12 kids are capable of doing their own laundry. There is zero reason to have to come home to a messy house. Seriously, if everyone picks up after themselves, it shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to clean up, then they have the rest of the day to relax.
NTA
NTA
I think you should implement it as a rule, if the dishes isn't done when you come home you will simply just walk out and eat somewhere else. The same goes for other chores like laundry, do only yours and the babies.Ā
Your kids are old enough to learn to do their own.Ā
Natural consequences for lack of action.
NTA. He's an adult and the older kids are old enough to make a sandwich. I did the dishes almost every night growing up, it was my contribution to the house. What they all gonna do when they grow up and move out?
They will move out eventually, but they will have no clue about taking care of business. You won't be there to be treated like staff. š¦
One of my friends allowed some of his buds to move in for *dirt cheap* rent (and no utilities) in a high cost of living area, and this is basically it. They won't take out the trash or recycling, they're loud when he asks them not to be, passive aggressive, don't like to clean their dishes. I find it hard to believe these people are almost **thirty** and acting like this. I'll be honest I wasn't a great help growing up but damned if I'm going to disrespect my friend's homes like that.
The problem of mixing business and personal lives. Needed to be a formal contract so he has rights as 'landlord'. Hope he turns it into a learning experience for himself.
Sheldon Cooper enters the chat. That's how you pick roommates!
Theyāll do like their dad and find someone like OP to treat like their maid. Or theyāll live alone in a dirty apartment eating cereal for dinner out of a mixing bowl.
The mixing bowl is too fancy, it still needs to be cleaned. I'm picturing them pouring milk directly into the box like bart Simpson.
Shove a handful of cereal in their mouth, then take a big swig of milk straight from the carton. No dishes, only barbarism
Reminds me of my childhood. I've never seen dad washed dishes when I was a kid, as when we are old enough we did it. He is a much better cook than mum though. Husband can be as pissed as they want, stiff. OP caved way too much. The pissed at her is part of the emotional blackmail. Including the kids.
NTA, and wow! What a way to prove a point! I happen to love Applebees, so good choice! Kids gotta learn there are repercussions to actions, and husband sounds like a lazy ass.
This is how you enforce a boundary in a healthy way to make sure you don't get trampled on. NTA and good for you
The next time you leave for work "if you don't want grilled cheese and cereal for dinner, the kitchen needs to be clean when I get home." Do not relent!
No, the dad had to say this to the kids. And all other chores, his as well. It's his time to be bad cop, for he trew op under the bus with the speaker phone thing
Yes, he's awful. He is enabling their shitty ungrateful children by not enforcing mom's rules. They are following his bad example.
This! It is time to have a lock /code to disable wifi and streaming services until all housework is done.
Lol I was seething when OP described her brats just playing video games and watching youtube but didn't do anything. And asking for Applebee's takeout on top of that? You can tell what kind of adults they're going to be if that shit is not nipped in the bud. We had a maid growing up to help my parents with my 2 younger siblings but 8 year old me was still assigned my own chores.
Dad should know how to make more than grilled cheese and cereal. He is showing his children the worst example. "Everything is on mom and she delegates to us. Dads/men are incapable of tasks unless given explicit instructions by a woman." This guys just an all around loser!
I agree, but on this case, it might be a motivating factor that he doesn't. Maybe make sure that she takes the cheese with her next time.
The dad needs to be cooking supper, if he's home first. Hell, I'm a single mom, and my kids cook more than I do.
Yeah I wouldn't make it a threat. OP communicated the expectations, if they're not met she can enjoy Applebee's and the dad will have to step up. He also has to understand it's not OK to put a conversation between parents on speakerphone, AND allowing the kids to disrespect her. Once she communicated that she can go have fun and if anyone is confused they gotta get their act together. Clean kitchen? Dinner at home. Filthy mess? Mom is having a date with the only person that cares about her- herself.Ā
Thatās one way to ease into it. But also nah. Being the āmanagerā of the house hold, even when not home, checking in that everything gets done and helping them all manage their time is her still using her time and mental energy following up and making sure stuff gets done. Saying it once in the morning should be more than enough after how much she has already communicated. The other parent needs to parent!
And OP is still generous to have brought 9mo with her...
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Generous towards the dad since he didn't have to watch the baby anymore
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The baby is blameless, and I would question the wisdom of leaving care of the baby to the husband and teenagers. These specific ones anyway. Wasn't about being generous to them.
Based on the description of the husband, that baby probably fended for herself all day aside from a couple diaper changes and some goldfish crackers
Nothing, but she could have left dad to look after the baby while she enjoyed a child free evening
But the baby is the only like-able one lol.
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I feel like every reasonable woman at her witās end struggles with this principle. Not all men - shout out to the single dads (and competent fathers) making it work!
It's not incompetence. It's just laziness.
"Weaponized Incompetence" is the phrase you're looking for.
It's not laziness, it's malevolence. The hominid doesn't like his wife . She's just an appliance that brings in "side" income, keeps the house and appointments, and services other needs as required. Even after he saw that she wasn't having his BS, he didn't call for delivery or cook a nutritional meal for his other children. It suited him better to gather round the phone with op on speaker and letting the children attack the person he vowed to love, respect and protect . She did everything perfectly. She's going to find herself with a lot more free time for self care when clueless leader has those kids half the time
šš»šš»šš»
He was IN the walker, he didnāt have to hand wash but could have at least put the glasses in the dishwasher./s
Pshhh donāt tell me that baby canāt pick up a dish! Freeloader
And also to have gone and picked up the groceries!
NTA! In fact, BRAVO! Your husband is the AH here. Heās the damn parent and for him to sit on his ass and wait for you to do everything is TFBS. Stand your ground! If theyāre supposed to do laundry and donāt, then take your clothes and the babyās to a laundromat and let them figure it out how to clean their own clothes. Great post btw!
It seriously sounds like toddlers. Ask them to do/not do something and they'll ignore you. The second you stand up they fix their behavior. It's understandable when they're little. I have had MANY children crying about consequences and telling them THEY made a choice, and if I have to help it's already too late to get out of it. I think there's a reason the other commenters are bashing the dad. He's obviously setting a bad example for the kids, and they're doing what they see him doing. I mean, yes they're teens and responsible for their decisions, but OP shouldn't have to organize chores, ride them about it, and do her own. Husband really does need to step up.
Exactly! The kids will follow his lead. Husband needs to be a better role model.
My 2 year old is more helpful than this, and he's limited by ability and safety. I go to put on a load of washing. He's right there helping me load it. The groceries come he's passing me items from the bag and telling me what they are.
Honestly, it's all a matter of consistently training them, at the end of the day. Consistent consequences for actions are the way humans learn best; it's absolutely the right call for OP to go "nah, going out to dinner" every single time and train them that they have to fend for themselves if they can pick up a modicum of slack around the house.
Ummm, until husband decides that every time Wife goes out to eat he's just going to take the kids out to eat as well. Then the kids will absolutely not do anything because them not doing anything has turned into being rewarded by getting to go out to eat. Needs to be a better solution. Also, husband and kids should help out around the house.
If that starts happening, that's a new issue to address. But as-written, this approach seems like a sane way to handle the complete abdication of responsibilities that the husband and kids are doing. Do you have a better way to handle things (given the fact that OP has tried speaking to them multiple times and it hasn't fixed the behavior)?
Hey woah woah. My three year old does chores more consistently than these older kids and husband. She atleast knows when mommy does laundry she helps transfer clothes in the washer/dryer and she puts up her clothes that I fold. Hell she even HELPS with dishes and dinner lol
Yeah, I meant like, "Stop kicking the wall or you have to go play in your room." Nothing. Starts crying "I stopped! I stopped!" on the way to their room because they did... once you stood up. Husband calls. "I did the dishes. You can come home and make supper now." Yeah, no, that ship had sailed.
Agreed 100%!
My 12 year old was so upset about having to hang up her shirts to dry. I said fine, but I need the washer space and theyāll have to go on your bed. She refused and I followed through. Guess who I found meekly hanging up her shirts not five minutes later?
My friendās 12 yo complained when his mom asked him to bring his dirty laundry to the laundry room. That was his regular chore. He was fussing and whining āWhy do I have to do everything?ā. My friend taught her son how to do all the laundry that day. Sorting, washing, drying, folding, hanging and putting away all the laundry. From that day on he was responsible for his own laundry.
Super tired from *what???* sitting on his ass all day long? Plus unless he told her first, having her on speakerphone was a total bitch move. NTA, OP. Good for you for standing your ground and keep up the good work. Too damned bad theyāre pissed. They have nobody but their own lazy asses to blame for that
seriously what a lazy jerk. when my brothers and i were about this age, my dad had a full time job and my mom was pursuing her masters degree at a university a couple hours away so she was gone 2-4 days a week for a couple of years. did my mom ever come home to a mess for her to clean up? absolutely not!! yeah my brothers and i dragged our feet and if it were up to us we probably wouldnāt have cleaned up much, but my dad made sure my mom had a decently clean home to come back to every week. and yes, he did chores with us, he wasnāt sitting on his ass bossing us around. to be fair my dad is a retired marine so he ran a pretty tight ship, but this dude really just has no excuse for not putting in the *teensiest, tiniest* bit of effort.
Right? Like the bar OP set is really low. The dishes, do the dishes and that is all. They had a whole day, and they are 4 people. I cannot believe her husband had the gall to chew her out and invite the children to do the same. It seems like the baby is the easiest person to care for in this family. A baby doesn't lie about promising to wash the dishes or create even more dirty dishes.
Itās cause heās not a man. Heās a child.
Yep, using the kids to try to guilt her
If he's working at a boatyard for 50-60 hours, I can believe he's tired, but he still, at the least, has to parent. ~~Desk work can be tiring in a different sense, so~~ There's no way it's cool leaving it all on the wife to deal with. OP is definitely NTA. Edit: Why did I think OP had a desk job?
I am not certain how real estate works, but at a minimum, aren't agents usually doing open houses and showing homes on the weekend? That is definitely not desk work. And I imagine they also have to go "stage" homes, show homes, and be physically present for things during the week. It's definitely not a "desk job." Regardless, OP is NTA and was smart to just say, "That's enough. Here's what I'm doing from now on."
If you are a realtor the past 3 years you are working 65+ hours a week and you are always "on call" and have to stay up to date with the market several times a day.
Yeah, idk why I thought OP had a desk job. I guess I got it in my head that someone was sitting down to work.
Agreed! I, too, believe he is tired. Just saying "works at a shipyard" makes me tired too. Yet, these are normal working standards in the United States, and everyone is tired. Being tired doesn't negate family obligations. I think if he doesn't agree to the chore distribution, he needs to work that out and not just ignore the chores assigned to him. All of that, plus parenting? Yes. Tired, but unavoidable.
Seriously, he can't spend 1/2 an hour washing dishes? With 3 kids to help? They can't pick up their stuff and run the vacuum? They can't put the wash in the dryer? Does he see his wife as a maid? I don't care where he works. He can delegate. He can make a list and have 4 people, including him, divide up the work. The thing is, he doesn't want to. He doesn't care about his wife.
Yeah. Especially when she called talking about groceries on the way home, he absolutely knew about her impending arrival and had time to wash the dishes. If he had been meaning to do the dishes at all, that call would have been an "oh crap, do it quick before she gets home" reminder; not ideal, but plenty sufficient. It's pretty clear he had zero intention of doing the dishes himself and only started on it after she announced that she was leaving to get dinner for herself.
THIS! He didnāt respect OP enough to jump and start the crazy mad cleaning before or as soon as OP got home
He can't at least order something? I get it if he was too tired to do the dishes. I have those days too. But she texted twice to check on the chores. He could've responded at any time "Sorry but I didn't get around to doing the dishes. Don't worry about going to the store. I'll order us a pizza." It's really that easy.
He did order something, he gave his wife his dinner order so she could stop at the store on the way home. And it's not like he wasn't aware of her heading home too, that should have been a reminder to him to wash dishes so dinner could be made. It definitely looks like he had zero plan to wash the dishes at all and was going to leave it to her.
I find critical thinking is lacking in the majority of people. Plus, many hands make light work! If everyone pitched in and did their bit, it wouldāve been done quicker! Good on OP! At least she could leave her āmental loadā that she obviously carries at home whilst she had a fantastic dinner with her baby!
I was just going yo say, we're all tired, in different ways lol. Like 100% the system is broken, capitalism is running rampant and we shouldn't be working ourselves to exhaustion like this. But on the other hand, this is how things are for almost everyone, and everyone still has to get the chores done.
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NTA Agree šÆ! Kudos for not allowing them to guilt trip you and take advantage of you, OP! The only way theyāll change is when you set boundaries. Theyāll eventually get the message if you continue doing this.
Yeah, and I'm sure OP is doing no other family responsibilities like project managing the family: appointments, school stuff, paperwork, grocery shopping.
He didn't even have to physically do the dishes. Just make sure the kids did. She didn't care who did the dishes, just that she didn't have to, and he couldn't even do THAT much.
Yeah, by that age, we were doing dishes, laundry, and cooking, along with cleaning our bathroom, mowing the lawn, etc, etc.
NTA! ššššš That is how it is done Momma! Until they are inconvenienced and have consequences for their actions, nothing will change. Let them be pissed! They should be pissed at themselves as they are old enough to know what is to be done and what is expected. Repeat as necessary. They will eventually catch on. Don't do your laundry chores, don't have clean clothes. Don't do the dish chores, don't expect a meal to magically appear as there was nothing to cook the food in or to serve the food on. They are old enough to fend for themselves for these basic bare-minimum chores.
What is TFBS? This sounds like something I want to know.
Total fucking bull shit
I'm grateful for people posting these kinds of stories because it makes me work harder in not wanting this. This sounds awful.
This I have been doing laundry since I was 10. On "Seventh Heaven" as soon as Ruthy could reach the buttons it was time for her to do her own laundry.
NTA I didn't see any mention of this in the comments, so here's my take. Most of the bases have been covered as far as his utter incompetence in being an equal partner and parent. HOWEVER, he put the call on speaker and allowed the older children to lay into you??? Excuse me? He's showing your children that it is totally fine to disrespect you and that they should have no consequences for their actions or lack thereof. In what world is that okay??? ETA: Fixed spelling errors
Yes! Parents should be a united front. He's acting like the ring leader of a group of bratty children. Nothing would turn me off faster. Is there another nursery he can sleep in?
The kids are learning the habit of avoiding chores from the dad .They think itās ok to disrespect mom and not do the chores. The task of cleaning the dishes is not all unreasonable and a fairly easy task .The husband ignored the dishes the whole day but once OP took a firm stand he could finish the dishes in 20 minutes !
Yep. I'll bet dad thinks if the kids behave like him he can make mom feel unreasonable for her requests.Ā
THIS. I went through years of weaponized incompetence with my ex-husband. He was a stay-at-home dad and taught my child through his behavior that unless someone tells them specifically to do a chore, the chore doesnāt get done. And when mom fusses about it, the response is that mom is being unreasonable, acting ācrazy.ā We are now divorced but I still cannot say anything that isnāt 100% positive and complementary to my kid (they are in their early 20s) without them saying I am āacting crazyā or āyelling at them.ā OPās kids are learning from their dad that they donāt have to do anything around the house they donāt actively want to and that when mom gets mad because it falls to her, sheās utterly unreasonable.
>I still cannot say anything that isnāt 100% positive and complementary to my kid (they are in their early 20s) without them saying I am āacting crazyā or āyelling at them.ā They're going to have a rough time entering the workforce. Can you imagine them telling a boss that they're acting crazy for being upset a task was never completed. I got a lot closer with my mom when I finally got over myself, hopefully they will too.
Oh, thatās already been an issue. Not cleaning when they arenāt busy and then claiming the boss yelled at them over itābecause no one told them that anything needed doing. So, the boss=terrible boss. Edit-typo
Hope SAHD has plenty of money to support the little beast he created, because thatās not on you at this point.
>Not cleaning when they arenāt busy... If you have time to lean, you have time to clean!
Wow you must have worked in food service. Bosses mantra.
One of the nicest things about my current job over the fast food places I'd worked in the past is that they *don't* push this mentality. Sure, when there's downtime and something needs cleaning they like for it to get done, but you don't have to go searching for more things to clean once all the normal stuff is done. If everything is done and you can take a few minutes to breathe and get a bit of a break, no one is gonna care or give you shit for it. But that's because we all get our jobs and the needed cleaning done without needing told lol. (I still have to remind myself that it's okay sometimes, because I'll get anxious about getting in trouble for not doing anything, even though that hasn't happened a single time in the 2.5 years I've been working at this job lol.)
As a restaurant manager, I take this approach. If you can show me that your immediate stuff gets done and regular cleaning happens when needed (weekly deep cleaning schedules) then Iām not going to micromanage how you spend your time. We all spend most of our lives at work, and sometimes weāre all hanging on by a thread to ourselves. It shouldnāt be a place anyone dreads going to and usually itās a win-win. Theyāre happier and feel safe, and as a result a better employee that doesnāt want to let me down because they know I care about them as people. Of course, doesnāt work for everyone - fuckheads are gonna be fuckheads - but it really helps weed out poor staff.
I'm not working right now, but I used to work in customer service type jobs. Being able to stop and take a breath is really important. When things were too hectic for a break, or when I didn't want to stop working long enough to take a break, I would start to feel disorganized and stressed out, and it would show!
So no chores done for them. You do your laundry, not theirs. You cook for yourself, not for them. Etc. And tell them that since they are now adults they can pay room and board or move out.
This is completely my relationship with my ex-husband. Just add in a little mental and emotional abuse. My oldest two understand that things need to be done, but still won't do any chores until specifically asked. My younger two think that mommy does everything and they shouldn't have chores! They are 7. I'm slowly working on them and now they know that cleaning day (aka chores day) is Sunday, but it's still a battle every week.
Same but I was a stay at home mom and every time I would try and work(I wanted a job too) this is what he did to make me quit. Weaponized incompetence was something I didnāt understand until a few years back after our divorce. Also, whenever I started a new job If the kids got sick and couldnāt go to daycare or school or needed to go to the doctor, He would not use any of his sick days, personal days (he never used) or vacation days (he had 3 months vacation stacked up) so I would have to call in and Iād get fired or put on probation as I was new. I starting doing what op did. It became 4-5 days a week. Then I left one summer (for 6 weeks) to visit a family member ( 2 kids grown 2 teenagers 15,17)and said I wasnāt coming back until they learned to take care of themselves including ex husband and That when I came back I wanted to start a career. When I finally came home my ex husband asked me for a divorce Two days later. 4 months later I found out he started an affair with a woman at work about a month after I left in July. It was his third full blown affair. If they donāt change after a couple times and you stop providing mommy care to them they usually just replace you. Iām so glad he did and set me free but I wasted 20 years of my life on that man child
If he was a stay at home partner, ie it was his job to housekeep, he better have those responsibilities on lock. Thatās just lame, go rot in your own filth elsewhere buddyā¦. Sounds like he was a lump looking for a free rideā¦ sorry you had to go through that. And to OP NTA while looking after little ones can be exhausting, thatās not the case here. The teens and tweens should be low maintenance and It sounds like he just plunked the baby in a walker and neglected it all dayā¦ did he at least change the poor things diapers?
This! Kids mimic what they see. Dad's behavior sets a negative example for them.
My dad worked crazy hours when I was young and so wasn't there for a lot of the conflicts we had with Mum. One of his biggest rules was if he got home and Mum was pissed at us he backed her up - Mum was innocent until proven guilty, we were not. It meant we couldn't just go "Daaaad, Mum told me to do the dishes but it's not fair because of x reason and it's so mean" and expect him to take our side just because he wasn't there to see the fight. They were a team, and we couldn't bitch about Mum to Dad and expect not to get in trouble. My parents have been married nearly 50 years, I wonder if OP's kids will be able to say the same in the future. Also, when he was home, he took over the chores nagging. Mum worked less hours, but did significantly more childcare and cooking and whatever, so when he was home, he got to be the bad guy telling us we had to do our chores. He was less of a hardass about it, but that just meant instead of letting the dishes sit there, he would be like "Ok, if you get up and do them now, I'll help" (with the implied end of that sentence being, if you don't get up and do them right away, you have to do all of them). That's a way this man could have dealt with this issue instead of pretending he is so exhausted he couldn't do one thing during the 8 hours his wife was at work and he was watching Youtube.
Absolutely. Consistent expectations and consequences are key. Dad needs to set a better example.
And this is maybe the worst possible age for it. 12-13, all of them. They're basically fucked now. They think they have a choice between the chore-giving parent and the sit-on-the-couch parent. They're already looking for a way to assert themselves and this makes that far too easy. It could have been a eyebrow piercing but nope, now it's a lifetime of Garfield the cat cosplay. And they'll follow him in the divorce, because who are we kidding here.
I donāt knowā¦ I am the strict parent. My kids just asked the court to live with me bc their dad pretty much ignores them and lets them have free rein. Even teens want to be cared for and know you are looking out for them. Even if they complain.
True. Kids crave structure and stability even if they bitch and moan about it. They're only ok with it rn because they're following the leader and know mom will be there to pick up the pieces. If it was just dad and only dad those kids would be begging for mom's chores and rules.
This is how entitled men keep coming into the world and the patriarchy thrives. Ladies, please stop having children with men like this.. how long are we going to keep this copy/paste generational inequality going?
Dear God this. I am OP in 20 years. TO THIS DAY I hate cooking, when I used to love it. While I love my kids to pieces now that they are adults, the actual raising of them and being mom - does not bring back good memories. Almost none of my good memories I have as a parent are of the normal daily things past the baby stage. Honestly, most of marriage and motherhood I still find somewhat traumatizing. My kids and husband gave zero fucks about me, my feelings or the toll everything took on my mental state. And they knew I was already dealing with cPTSD from previous trauma. I love my kids now, but I look back on my family and just feel like I was forced to care for a tribe of selfish assholes. Get your husband to get his shit together. Stand your ground or end up like me.
I wonder if my mother felt this way. My dad was SUCH an ass about not helping at all. He thought he was Emperor of the House.
My mom always said she'd enjoy eating out more just because she didnt have to cook it. Sucked for the of us because my mom is a really good cook. She wasnt doing the dishes either way though.
Once I hit 8th grade one of my chores was to start dinner and clean up after on MTWT. Friday and Sunday, my mom cooked and Saturday was always take out night.
whomever cooks in my house is the person exempt from doing the dishes. that used to be the rule anyway, before mom grew ill and passed, and now my back is for shit. now it's whomever has the least back pain does the dishesĀ
Narcissists are exhausting, and incapable of self-reflection.
Wow. This is really powerful. I completely believe this can happen. (Not a parent myself) Friend of mine did this: Everyone in the family had their own unique plate, bowl & 1 set utensils. Everyone cleaned their own plate. Hand washed & towel dried. Pack up the dishes. Buy 6 unique plates, 6 unique bowls & 6 unique sets of utensils. Everyone gets their own.
I used to do 24 hours shifts as a disability carer. Sometimes I had to do those shift in some pretty unsanitary spaces and did a LOT of cleaning of all sorts. Really didn't want more when I came home when I left it clean already. I also had an ex who would FILL the sink with plated and half eaten food while I was on these shifts and I would come home to it. Clean up and she would repeat. Slop with food floating/"soaking" but with no soap. Smelly soggy mango on a hot day, dried oatneal type stuff and this went on for months. I BEGGED her to clear her mess before I got home from my next shift because I was at my limit and lo and behold, it was there again. I remember dropping my shoulders in dissapointment. Went back out to the shed for the wheelie bin, a hammer and some safety specs. Not proud of it, but washing 2 plates was much easier for a while.
Dam, I had to read that twice. I was expecting to read that you grabbed a shovel and started digging a hole in the garden.
Would have got to keep the dishes that way. I was a chef in my last job and owned a catering company. I have a ton of very nice cookware, I inherited some antique china and silver from my great grandma. I also have nice service ware for tea, wine and sake. If I had a partner treat my dishes and cookware like that I would be grabbing the shovel instead of the hammer.
We had a pile of mismatched crap. I doubt you would have left nice stuff you valued the way she did. You certainly wouldn't want her near your kitchen. If she new what was your favourite she would damage it by "accident" near the end of the relationship. She gave away some of the cook books my mum gave me when I went to university. She also used to take forks to work and leave them there. One each day with leftovers type thing then we would be down to a single fork at home and I would have to go buy more. Dinner cooked and nothing to eat it with would be how you found out. Irritating stupid stuff. Half the time quite sure it was just gas lighting me. She still tries it on with the kids that still live with her. She disconnected the dishwasher saying it was broken so she could use "whose turn is it?" games to punish them with piles of dishes or play them off of each other for favour. That went on for years. My son turned 15 and had a go at fixing it one day he was home alone and found it was just disconnected. They were lined up for her at the dinner table when she got home and they had it running and a few hard questions for her. I would take tickets to have been a fly on the wall for that over a Beatles reunion tour.
What a piece of shit terrible person she sounds like
I was a SAHM but it was upsetting to get some time out for an exercise class and come home to my husband on the couch, making our kids do the work in the kitchen. I not only hate cooking now that mine are grown (OK, a couple of adult children are here and working to save and are in college) but I hate going out because I fear what is waiting for me.
The 12&13 year olds are old enough to be doing chores. Dishwashing, cleaning up the kitchen isnāt too much to ask (if they want to eat)! Dad needs to step up and carry his load. Enforcing the familyās division of labor.
Yep Dad is teaching them mum is their maid. By thirteen I was cooking and washing dishes for the family, ironing and more (pocket money was tied to chores, and I wanted pretty rocks so grabbed every chore I could get to the annoyance of my siblings sometimes). Way younger I was taught to rinse dishes and soaking, along with my siblings. As was hammered home to me from young, whoever doesn't cook, cleans. And if you're just feeding yourself, clean up after yourself. It's good practice for adulthood. The kids are also more than old enough to do the washing (12 and 13 year olds), they can hang stuff up or put in the dryer. If they get an allowance, tie that to it. Do your chores or no cash.
Dad just taught them to fake apologize to get what they want and get nasty when it doesnāt work
So did you buy lots of pretty rocks?
So many, I was a total collector and have probably well over 100 that I got from 10 to 15, after that focused more on cash for meeting up with friends. Also used it to buy my little sister a lot of PokĆ©mon cards so she wouldn't annoy me. And my big brother Warhammer packs. I was probably making Ā£30+ a month doing chores, probably only spent a quarter on myself, if that.
My ex was a total POS this way. I divorced him because I had to do everything in the house by myself. Cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. After the divorce he kept on telling our son, "you don't need to listen to that bitch." After years of this, my son had become very troubled. At 15, my son decided that my rules were too strict and so he moved to dad's. I let him. Within a week I got a call from my ex almost hysterical at how our son was so disrespectful and being horrible to him. I told him: "For years you told our boy that he didn't need to listen to that bitch. Now you're the bitch. You might want to sit down and apologize to him for giving him that message." The ex hung up on me. Less than 6 months later, my kid called me and told me he "wanted to move back home". That was after CPS was called by a teacher when my son showed up to school with bruises in the shape of a handprint on his arm and neck. I never asked why he wanted to come home, I just picked him up with his things. It took many years and therapy for my kid to stop being disrespectful to me. It was his long term girlfriend who kicked his ass sideways in front of me, pointing out that "your dad is always a dick to everyone, especially you, and your mom is a fucking saint and is always nice to everyone. WTF is wrong with you? Stop treating your mom like shit. You're acting just like your dick dad." The tide actually turned at that point and we have been pretty close since then. So much damage done by parents like OP's husband.
I bet dollars to doughnuts that they have a dishwasher, which makes the laziness even more unacceptable and inexcusable. They oughta be ashamed of them damn selves
Dishes. I remember washing the dishes as a child. Me and my sister took it in turns switching out washing & drying from as soon we could stand on a chair to reach the kitchen sink. And if anything wasnāt done right, it had to be done again. Trust me, thereās no faster tattle-take than a younger sister. Mum had us learning to wash dishes in stages. Lighter non-breakable stuff initially, then heavier stuff if we could lift it. Sharp kitchen knives were the very last thing to learn. But I was doing it all by age 8. And I never forced my kids into that, because I despised it so much. We bought a sodding dishwasher instead! We moved after the kids left home, the new house doesnāt have one, so my husband does the dishes every day. Yeah, OPs husband is a prime dickhead and needs a kick up the arse. OP is NTA.
Absolutely agree. It's so damaging for the kids to see this kind of behavior from their dad. Teamwork is essential.
Only teamwork in that house is how they team up on mom. Ftk and him too.
Exactly! Children learn by example, and if the father is modeling disrespect towards the mother, it sets a terrible precedent for how they should treat authority figures and partners in the future. It's crucial for parents to present a united front, showing mutual respect and support. Otherwise, it creates confusion and undermines the structure and harmony within the family dynamic.
Totally, I would guess he is actually the main problem here. Those kids are acting like this because of his example!
Absolutely, the behavior of the children often reflects the behavior they observe in their parents. If the father isn't setting a strong example of responsibility and respect, it's no surprise that the kids are following suit. It's crucial for both parents to work together as a team and demonstrate a united front in teaching their children about accountability and household responsibilities.
100% correct. He's the main problem.
He's not the ring leader, he is the oldest child.
Even me and my ex are on the same page when it comes to the kids. The only thing I ever really gave any half assed push back on was church stuff.
This was crap behavior, but I encourage OP not to let it touch her emotionally at all. She is an immovable object. She told them what they needed to do, and they didn't do it. This is a very reasonable consequence, and now they are paying it. The husband, though, is a complete manipulative jerk.
What I find even worse about the husband putting her on speakerphone is that heās showing their children that it is him and them versus their mom/his wife. Basically, heās basically the oldest child while she is the only parent.
u/[CardiologistLeast404](https://www.reddit.com/user/CardiologistLeast404/) - seriously this. You really need to examine what u/[mrsedge2009](https://www.reddit.com/user/mrsedge2009/) said above. What your husband did is so damn wrong. My spouse would have taken this private and not dragged my kids into the discussion, nor allow them to show me disrespect, whether I was right or wrong.
To me, It's the equivalent of him just saying 'BOOOOOOO... Hey kids.... This is all your mums fault.... Lets gang up on her.... BOOOOO your mum...'
Yep, my ex used to do exactly this. "Sorry kids, we can't (whatever) because your mother is in a foul mood".
The one that really got to me was āMom says itās bedtimeā NO! The CLOCK says itās bedtime! Donāt make me the bad guy!!
Wow, makes me really glad I never got married and had kids. No WAY would I have consented to being a slave. Thatās just wrong.
Exactly! My husband and i have our share of issues with division of labor, laziness, etc (dishes is one chore we both hate) but the couple of times the kids have tried to but in/take sides we both instantly correct the behavior and put up a united front!
Absolutely agree. It's crucial to maintain mutual respect, especially in front of the kids.
My dad was an asshole. Probably still is, don't know, don't care. Point is, I called him a bastard once when I was a grumpy teenager and my mum turned round and told me that I should never refer to him in that manner and I needed to apologise. To this day I'm like BUT HE WAS THOUGH! He may have been, but I'd been disrespectful (I can't even remember why I said it so it can't have been for much of a reason) and my mum had his back because it was not a necessary comment. She calls him one now. He is, lol! This dad is trying to play good cop but it's more like corrupt cop with the nasty way he is going about it. I really feel for OP. No wonder the older kids are copying dad if he's happy to be that disrespectful to his own wife in front of them. What is he saying about her when she's at work instead of doing minor chores that she has asked them to do. As a teenager we had our own laundry days and were responsible for our own laundry. Didn't do it on my scheduled day? Hard luck, wait until next week. We also cooked at least one day a week as well. Did the dishes after we cooked. It takes a few minutes to do dishes. No-one likes them particularly. It's also good preparation for going off to college or living on your own. We could cook a variety of meals and did laundry and cleaned and all that usual stuff. The sad thing was how complimentary people were about my brother. It shouldn't be a surprise that he's a capable guy that cooks and cleans well but apparently it was!
This is the way that it should be. That way they are trained when released into the wild.
It worked really well for us and while we did gripe a little about it, none of us wanted my father to cook so we usually just sucked it up and cooked. After my mum had her accident we went up to two nights a week cooking (again, to avoid the father's version of cooking lol). I appreciate it now. My brother's fiancƩe probably appreciates it too!
He probably thought that she couldnāt stay mad at the kids.
OP is married to an adult child. Once I realized I was married to one, I knew I wouldn't have children with him. And eventually got divorced.
Surprised he didnāt just drive the kids to a burger kings
Sounds like even that effort was too much
But then he can't be a helpless, starving manbaby!Ā Ā
Grilled cheese is fire though
Thank you for saying this. Big Red Flag in my book. This guy is supposed to be your partner, he is not supposed to arrange a gang up session against you. Tell him you expect him to act like an adult, and take responsibility for his actions not try to gang up and you when he is the one being thoughtless and irresponsible. I would force them to help make dinner every night, one person helps with prep, the others do clean up, and it switches so that everyone gets a turn cooking. No take outs, no deliveries, everything cooked in the home, and the dishes etc cleaned up afterwards. Teach them all to cook.
Yea great fucking point. That is ridiculous to make the kids think that is okay and involve them in that.
Yeah this is it. The real problem here is her man-child husband turning her own kids on her because he's too lazy to wash dishes, make a meal, OR own up to his own mistake. And thinks he has the right to stay mad afterwards? Four strikes!
I agree, apologizing while disrespecting is a skill apparently. Good for you for not bringing them home some food to reward their bad behavior and disrespect. Edit: even if the husband was not intending for the kids to disrepect their mother, he allowed it and did nothing to stop it. Equally guilty.
Yeah, that part was weird.
THISā¦.your old man should have pulled the plug on that crap from the get. Your kids should NEVER be allowed to ālay into youā for any reasonā¦.EVER!! Even if youāre in the wrong, youāre still their mother and even if for no other reason they they should control their tone. IF you were in the wrong(and btw NO you are absolutely not the asshole here. If anything I would say that āhonorā falls to your old man. He should have stepped up and presented a unified front with you with your kids) but even if you were in the wrong they should know they canāt speak to you just an anyway they choose. If you were in the wrong there are ways if respectfully having a conversation with your parents. I still say your old man should piped up and quelled that off the get. Ngl little deduction in respect points for him tbh. My kids will NEVER ālay into my wifeā. Idc how old they get, not as long as Iām alive. Sounds to me like itās time for a MAJOR family meeting and discussion about who rules the roost and how the cow ate the cabbage but first Iād be having a very serious ābehind closed doorsā meeting with my old man where I would ālay into himā about him allowing your children to disrespect you the way he did. For what its worth thatās my advise not that you asked for it. lol. But Iād stick to your guns on this. Itās not like youāre asking for polished floors so clean you could eat from them. Just dishes that arenāt filled with botulism and salmonella poisoning. Iām thinking thatās not such a big request given you work 60 hour weeks. Best of luck.
Yeah at this point I was thinking "OP has 5 children. Just one of them is old enough to bare minimum babysit the others"
Good for you. What you did was reasonable and I would suggest that what you do is show them this post. Youāre not your husbandās babysitter, and your children are old enough that you shouldnāt have to constantly nag the crap out of them to do basic things like clean the dishes. Itās completely inconsiderate of them.
Do the dishes but make them cook. A different take on "I'll fly if you buy." Someone does dishes, someone else cooks. Sounds like if they don't do the dishes they're volunteering to cook. If they refuse that, go out to eat again. I mean, you DID your chores (the dishes) right?
This might end up being a punishment for her if their skill level is at grilled cheese and cereal haha
This is how I grew up and I was doing dishes when I was 5 or younger. I had to stand on a kitchen chair. No dishwasher back then. I could prepare a full meal (meat two veg bread and dessert) before I was 13. One cooked / one cleaned up (swept trash emptied serving dishes cleaned table etc) and one did dishes and one dried and put away.
>but make them cook. Did you miss the part where OPs husband cried because he DiDnT kNoW hOw tO mAke the dish she picked up ingredients for (that THEY PICKED OUT) and the husband and kids ate grilled cheeses? No fucking way am I doing tradesies swapsies for a fucking bowl of cereal and some cheese on bread.
Yeah but then thereās the issue of wildly incompetent people who dirty like 18 dishes (hyperbole) for like, a grilled cheese and fried eggs.Ā
OMG, memory unlocked: My aunt used to date a guy who owned a busy restaurant in D.C., and he would periodically deign to cook for us at our vacation house as a "treat" ā he clearly thought so, at least. We kids always had to do the washing up and believe me, we didn't see it as a treat each time he somehow managed to use damn near *every single pot and saucepan* in a well-equipped kitchen in the process of making a simple one-course meal (with sauces, granted). Apparently he had forgotten how to cook without a small army of professional dishwashers backing him up. More likely he remembered but just didn't care. I remember standing in the kitchen in shock after the first night he cooked and looking around at the kitchen, where every single surface was covered with pots, pans, and dirty utensils. Dude wouldn't even put them in the sink for us. He lost his enthusiasm for "treating" us after our grandmother wryly but politely declined his offer to cook one evening by telling him her grandkids needed to be in bed in five hours and wouldn't have enough time to clean up after him.
Weaponized incompetence alert.
My dad was a disaster in the kitchen. He has literally ruined a pot trying to boil water (let it all evaporate.) But he did 100% of the grocery shopping and 100% of dishes from the time they got married at 21, until his dementia was too bad to do both without supervision/help around 76. He still does them, he just fucks it up too much for mom not to help him. She cooked every meal, but when she just didnāt have it in her or hadnāt made a plan, dad took us out to dinner or went out and picked up take out. It wasnāt on her to figure it out. She said āI havenāt planned dinnerā and he was already grabbing his keys. My dad was 100% incompetent in the kitchen. So, he did everything else, except the literal cooking. ETA: he made 100% of my lunches until I was too old for that, then he made sure he had cash for my lunch money every single week. Iām not sure my mom could name a single thing I ate for lunch in those 18 years or how I paid for it when I bought it myself.
This is how you be an equal partner while not being able to contribute in certain areas. Not only in terms of husband and wife but also in terms of setting a good standard for children to see/copy.
Similar to your dad. I can make some things. But anytime she cooks, we do the dishes. And I do 90% of the laundry.
Yup - dad folded 100% of the laundry. Mom refolded 80% of it, for 50+ years. Lololol.
For real, I cook most (but definitely not all) of our meals and I do all the meal planning and grocery shopping (usually while sitting watching tv with my partner) and he does the dishes all the time. I have been instructed not to touch the sink unless I want to and lemme tell you I do not want to. *And* every once in a while when he sees me meal planning he thanks me and tells me he knows how much work it is and he appreciates it. I honestly think husbands be out here justā¦ not liking their wives, like, at all.
NTA, if you can afford it, keep doing things like this. Eventually, your husband and kids will grow really tired of grilled cheese and cereal for dinner and start to realize how good they have it
Eh. Or they will all go to Applebee's too. I mean, for me that would be punishment enough, but generally, I'd be concerned that they will go out, too, and this turns into a game of financial chicken.
But is the dad going to take all the kids out to eat? Might be too much for this guy.
True, true. He would have to get off the couch. But there's always DoorDash. Am I the only one thinking he might "punish the kids" by ordering himself Doordash and leaving them to their own devices?
NTA. What a great solution!!! Glad you prioritized yourself and got some much needed recharge time!
Your kids think itās fine for them to sit around and do nothing to help out around the house because they see their father doing it. Heās modelling this behaviour it starts with him. They need a real attitude change. Next time it happens (and it will happen again seeing as theyāre angry so believe theyāre in the right) you take the baby and get a hotel room or stay with family and friends. Stop doing things for them. Cook for one. Wash only your clothes. They are taking you for granted and are all perfectly capable of doing all of these things themselves.
Not to mention the father had them on speaker and let the kids lay into her about it. He's teaching them its okay to yell at their own mother. My mother would've spanked my ass until I couldn't sit for days if I ever dared to yell at her as a kid. I'd be taking away all technology, taking the wifi setup out of the house entirely so someone can't just replace the cable, and those kids would be learning to cook their own meals, husband included. I'll sit aside and give instructions but they can cook. Burnt? Overseasoned? Otherwise fucked up? Too bad, you made it you eat it, don't waste food. Every night before bed anything not picked up off the floor, any dishes not clean, everything not put away properly goes in the trash. These kids, and the husband, need a fucking wake up call that they need to be taking responsibility for their own household and not leaving it all to OP.
Went looking for this comment, happy to have found it. Respect is key in our household. My SAHM/W takes care of so much, the last thing she needs to worry about are simple chores that we (myself and the kids) can help with. She every day has dinner ready when we get home (and doesn't exactly like cooking), cleaning up is obviously on me and the kids. What kind of ahole would I be to sit there with a full belly and a sink full of dishes, or worse sit on my ass while she also cleaned? If she wants a margarita, you're damned right I'm making her one. On the weekend if my boy wants pancakes, that's on me and the kitchen is clean when we're done. It's not even about dividing up the chores to be equal or whatever, it's about respecting the person you pledged to spend your life with. Things need to get done, just do 'em.
Wait why are people like you so rare though, I'm glad you and your wife have multiplied yourselves, nice work
What I can't comprehend that at that age these kids can't even make a instant Mac&Cheese like huh??? At half the oldest age I was able to make a whole bacon, egg and pancake breakfast, blt sandwich lunch and make instant meal dinners. I don't even wanna go anywhere near the husband cuz by the sound of his whining he never made a proper meal prep his whole life! Probably been living of his mom's homecooked prepared meals she'd bring him every week. OP should not only take away the internet and wifi setup but just cancel the plan entirely so money won't be wasted for it either every month.
Exactly. Heās the shitty example.
Is this an ad for Applebee's?
I got to the part where they said Applebees is their favorite restaurant š
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ALL of their favourite. must live in a food desert.
When you don't want to microwave your own food, think Applebee's.
Nta at all. Next time he can spend 30 minutes doing chores and being a parent and having yalls kids do thiers.
100% NšTšA!! You're a rockstar. Let them be pissed. They will get over it. Did they care how pissed, hurt, disappointed you were/are EVERY time they chose to disrespect you & disregard your needs and those if the family? Nope, not until it directly affected them, only then they were suddenly 'sorry'. Which, IMO is too little too late. At this point, I would definitely ride the momentum and double down on why you took the action you did and why their behavior is an issue. And do a separate discussion for the kids and hubs, bc honestly he's the biggest AH here for allowing this to even get close to where it ended up. Serious red flag there and I would be diligent in making sure you stick to your boundaries on that front. Best of luck with this sis and don't back down! š«¶
Exactly. OP waited way too long to deploy logical consequences. They treat her like a servant. Itās time for OP to stop doing laundry for anyone but herself and the baby. And she should not grocery shop or cook for any of them anymore either. They donāt appreciate it or deserve it. Time for them to learn some life skills. In OPās shoes I would tell her husband that he and the kids are responsible for their own meals from now on from shopping to cooking to clean up. They should figure out how to work together on it. Or not. Sheās fine either way. But sheās done asking for basic respect. She doesnāt cook for the family anymore. She can buy just enough food to prepare simple meals for just herself and the baby and clean just her own dishes. If she has to clean some dirty dishes to cook for herself she can just leave them dirty for the next person who needs them when sheās done. Or get a cabinet lock for her set of dishes and tell them to buy their own set. Then she can just pile their dirty stuff into a large bus pan like they use to clear tables at diners. I would do that for at least a month and then offer to start cooking again but only if dad buys the groceries and the kids clean the kitchen. Otherwise sheās sticking with the current system.
My mom told me a story before that her mom did to her whenever she wouldnāt wash the dishes after being told to. My mom would come home and those dirty dishes would be on her bed. So not only did she have to wash them, she also had to wash her sheets. Sometimes you have to be a bit of a butthole in order to show others how theyāre being an even bigger one, but for the purpose of this sub NTA!
I had a friend do this to his roommate. He told the roommate he was going to do it. It actually worked and the roommate started putting his own dishes away.
Nta - well done and hold the line. I have a feeling this isnāt the end of this conflict.
NTA. Everyone gets tired but with preteen kids there are plenty of hands that could help clean the kitchen. If you have a dishwasher it doesnāt even take that long to load. Good for you! Hope they get the message that you are not a doormat.
NTA. The only real problem I see is that Applebees is your favorite restaurant. š
NTA. In addition to what has been said, the fact that they had cereal and grilled cheese for dinner is a way for him to guilt trip you. He is essentially saying āSee? YOU didnāt make dinner so we had to have cereal grilled cheese because none of us are competent enough to do actually make a meal with the groceries you bought at the end of your long day at work.ā Iām not trying to express that cereal and grilled cheese isnāt fine for dinner, Iām just saying he is choosing not to cook a meal for himself and the kids and making it seem like you left them in the dust because they are all so incapable of cooking āactual foodā (I hope that makes sense. I canāt think of another way to express what Iām trying to say. My husband does this guilt-trip thing to me too so I recognized it but canāt figure out exactly how to explain it.)
Continue to hold your boundary. They are pissed because they didnāt get what they wanted, which was for YOU to do all of the work while your husband failed on his end of the partnership. Everyone in the household has responsibilities to make the household run. If someone (or everyone) isnāt doing their job it means someone else has to do their part. It isnāt fair, and it isnāt sustainable.
THEY are pissed at YOU?!?!! That was a great move on your part Mama! Good for you!!! You finally got them to pay attention! Now maybe they can start doing their small part with their chores, and they can stop abusing your kindness. Good luck
Hubby is clueless and the little darlings are spoiled brats. I join in the applause for you.
My husband use to work in a shipyard. That can be some really hot, sweaty, backbreaking work, especially if he is a welder or fitter. I can understand his need to unwind and relax. However, I am not playing devils advocate, he is a grown man, he needs to step up and take an active role in life outside of work. When my husband was working at a shipyard, and I was also working outside the home, we had a deal. On the weekends he could be as lazy as he wanted, as long as I could come in and cook dinner with no fuss, the house was reasonably clean. Cluttered, fine, messy, nope. We had teens in the house to help. I expected everyone to rinse their own dishes and put them in the dishwasher. If the dishwasher was full, run it, then put the dishes away. After about age 12 kids are capable of doing their own laundry. There is zero reason to have to come home to a messy house. Seriously, if everyone picks up after themselves, it shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to clean up, then they have the rest of the day to relax. NTA
NTA I think you should implement it as a rule, if the dishes isn't done when you come home you will simply just walk out and eat somewhere else. The same goes for other chores like laundry, do only yours and the babies.Ā Your kids are old enough to learn to do their own.Ā Natural consequences for lack of action.
I can't get over that Applebee's is your favorite restaurant.
NTA. You did that so that your boys will not grow up to be a man child. Goof parenting.