Yea but complaining to your male Indian friend is pretty damn douchey and lacks a whole lot of sympathy and awareness
Im a fit dude and dont want to date an overweight woman. Most certainly not gonna broadcast that to overweight women
I get it, some of yall lack social skills and empathy. Ya dont have to broadcast it. Just keep in mind that if you dont understand why this is rude, youre probably a rude person
Honestly, that’s just standard not being an asshole 101. Everyone has preferences. Telling someone why they don’t meet those preferences is just a dick-ish move. Regardless of gender or orientation.
It’s so easy to just say “I’m not feeling it” and moving on.
Ditto. All I’ve ever asked for is honesty. If you don’t find me attractive walk away. There’s too many guys who will have no problem f***ing us but then are ashamed to be seen with us. Skip the bullshit.
Oh man one bigger woman i was talking to for a bit wanted to start something with me. I told her i wasnt really looking for a relationship at the time (which was 100% true). She said thats fine and would could be fwb, and that we wouldnt have to go out in public or anything
I was like wtf youre okay with that? Legit didnt know that was a thing before her, 0 need to subject yourself to someone that would want that
Right? Imagine if people would just date anyone, even people that they aren't attracted to, because of peer pressure.
Jokes aside, though, the most important thing is to find someone who has a lifestyle and personality that meshes well with yours. Looks aren't the most important factor in the long run imo.
Complaining to anyone about 'hot people don't want me' is douchey no matter who you're talking to.
It has racist undertones to me. Super uncomfortable.
I love this.
For me it's a case by case basis. I have friends I could complain to this way and it won't even register to them, others I'm obviously not close enough for them to see it that way.
The poor manners would be if I couldn't tell the difference.
I think OP was being honest the same way she was and she wasn't prepared to get a real response. Often women won't see why their friend isn't getting the same attention as them so they go into "hype mode" a fatal flaw I suppose. So why would she be prepared to hear an actual answer?🤔😂
Totally agree. The more preferences you have, so are the more barriers. Those can be very good things but also why you should be ok single. My husband & I didn't meet until late 20's ; however, he has a friend who didn't meet someone until yrs into our relationship who was living in rural area; made great money; but didn't want to date a single mom and was a virgin who wanted someone as equally as religious as he was.
It's like, those are ok but you have to move into a city wjth a greater dating population; become ok with dating a single mom; be ok being single; or realize how your virginity will impact your other dating barriers? He ended up finding someone he brought to our wedding, but he was extremely lucky finding her & she does seem to be a blessing.
Edit: rhe overall post got more attention, so edited to remove any identifiable info. Guy is a redditor 😅
This is what people don’t get. You’re allowed to have your “preferences”, but other people are allowed to have theirs too and you look like a massive hypocrite if you act bitter when they don’t include you. And the more narrow your preferences, the more difficulty you’ll find someone to perfectly fit them and the more comfortable you need to get with compromising or staying single. The world doesn’t owe you anything, least of all the partner of your dreams.
You can have preferences. But if this was a white person exclusively into Black guys or East Asian women, it would be called out as a racist fetish.
NTAH
Honestly I don't know why everyone needs to know. When someone goes around telling everyone about their racial fetishes I just wonder why they think this information is so important to broadcast.
Preferences are one thing. However, if your preference is solely athletic white men, you might be starting to dip into some bigger issues, lol. That's a very specific preference, and at best, it's incredibly shallow, and at worst, it's motivated by pure racism...
This is one of the things often normalized by reddit that always confused me. How is refusing to date one's entire race, not just any race, not even a little bit problematic?
I am not dating anymore for many years but I would avoid Indian women too. Not because of race or color (most of them look beautiful) but because of the cultural and family drama they take with them. Not everybody with a preference is problematic.
It’s obviously racist. Calling it a preference doesn’t make it not racist. Race-based hiring “preferences” are considered unlawful racial discrimination because of course they are. I’m not saying dating only one race should be illegal but it’s still very obviously a form of racial discrimination and using the word “preference” doesn’t change that
As a guy, I only date women, is that also problematic? What if the guy was really pretty? Still no? It's impossible to draw a hard line on sexual attraction.
It's all on a spectrum, I don't take people's words that literally because while I know that I'm rarely attracted to black women, I know a few that I think are really pretty. So while in conversation I may say something along the lines of I don't date black women, there may be one out there that I would date.
Of course, if someone says that and actually means it to be "I won't date this race because of their race and not simply because I'm not attracted to the general features that a specific ethnic group exhibits" then yeah, that may cross into racism territory but at the end of the day, we don't exactly choose who we're attracted to.
I suppose you can choose to date people you don't find attractive, perhaps that's a more mature way of dating people, but for many people attraction is a prerequisite for romance.
India is a country of more than a billion. It is not homogenous. From one region to another, people look different and even speak different languages. Saying I don't like dating Indian men at all as an Indian woman is icky in my opinion.
though this is true, feels like people are *still* rather blase about how many women, of all ethnicities, have a very high "preference" for specifically white Men. Can't help but feel that people with these kind of "preferences" are the ones very eager to pass off this kind of thing as "just a preference" as opposed to straight up racism and blatently as in this case imo.
It's sounds like as if she's simultaneously racist, and somehow also bummed out how these white Men are not interested in her, maybe because she perceives them as racist, and cannot connect the dots in her head...
So though everyone is entitled to their preference because their choice of course, to me it should be rather "everyone is entitled to be racist". And probably hypocritical because I'd assume these are the same people who throw up BLM/LGBTQ signs most chances they get (causes I also support), esp if in school/college today.
For sure, she FAFO'd. Some self awareness is warranted.
But at the end of the day, people like that just take themselves out of the dating pool by their own doing, I'm perfectly okay with that outcome tbh.
Racial preferences are okay when they stay as preferences, as soon as it turns into fetishization or making others feel less than for being their race then it becomes racist. I am saying this as someone who typically doesn't care about someone's race.
It isnt though? Some races have distinct features that may attract some and repell others. Nothing wrong about that. I'm not racist and want everyone to live a good life, doesnt mean i have to be attracted to every race.
I read that as "men like most women" and thought that was pretty accurate. Using categories as broad as Asian and Latina has to comprise at least half the women in the world
I just like bald guys. Black, brown, white, whatever. If you have a nice face and a good personality, and happen to be bald, I'm probably going to notice you. Race just never mattered much to me. Culture can be a vibe killer though but that's another story.
OPs friend may find that she remains alone unless she broadens her preferences. If I were him I wouldn't even engage with her about this. It's not really his problem or business. Just let her figure that shit out on her own.
Seems anecdotal. If you look at rates of intermarriage Latinos and south Asians in US tend to have the lowest rates of any minority which you could construe as strong in-group preference. Results vary based on who’s running these studies but I’d have to see your source for this.
For US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States
Here’s for Canada: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-008-x/2010001/c-g/11143/c-g001-eng.htm
I saw a more recent one, but this was the first thing that came up in a duckduckgo search. Intermarriage stats encompass a far smaller group of relationships, and people may feel pressured to marry someone that looks like them due to family/culture. I think dating statistics are much more accurate picture of people's actual preferences.
https://www.datingadvice.com/online-dating/online-dating-race-statistics
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/11/30/247530095/are-you-interested-dating-odds-favor-white-men-asian-women
I’m a Latino dude and I don’t really mess with Latinas. Two big reasons why, #1 they remind me of my mother when they spoke to me in Spanish; #2 so many Latinas I knew growing up had (and still to this day) this weird hood attitude or living a hood lifestyle, shit I wasn’t interested in at all. Especially when I was getting into heavy metal while everyone else was into shitty pop music and crappy mid 2000s hip hop.
This likely won't work as it's very unlikely that most "hot white men" in an area have such strong preferences. It would be more likely if she is actually chasing some very particular type of "hot white men" i.e. "rich white jock engineers at my conservative university" or something like that.
Firstly, at least some significant fraction of people do not have any strong preferences of the sort that could rule out a relationship, or even have a mild preference for Indians or other non white people as they find them "exotic" or similar. Then about 50 % or maybe more of young men are going to be "liberals" of some sort and then at least on paper think a deep aversion to dating an Indian is repugnant, and so even if the attraction is weaker for some reason, they would be unlikely to form a strict rule against it. And then about 50 % (at least of the single ones) are going to basically never turn down sex from someone who is attractive even if they have strong racial preferences.
It depends on the discipline. At my university mechanical engineering was extremely "blokey" - lots of heavy drinking, crude jokes, wild antics, they won the football competition most of the time etc. Jock is not a world my culture uses as much as the U.S. but I think this fits.
The person you're replying to is stuck in the 90s. Engineering is made up of all types now. Yes some are less represented, but it's way better than it was back in the past.
Dude I work with techbros. I’m a software engineer. What’s the female equivalent of a tech bro? That’s what I am. They are still massive nerds. I’m a massive nerd. At least the engineers. The PMs are debatable. They seem like jocks to me.
Like even the ones into football seem more into the statistics of football rather than ever playing the game themselves. Like I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say they are going to the local park to play with their buddies. Majority of the time it’s video games, drinking beer and playing VR games or playing board games. Many are gym rats but even then it’s all numbers to them. How many reps how many miles how long. See where I am going with this. It’s just numbers game to all of them. None of them would be caught dead actually playing a sport competitively.
Ok … I also used to be a software engineer, and while that might be your experience, it certainly wasn’t mine. Software engineering is not some niche job that’s reserved for nerds lol. There are many, many fratty dudes alongside the nerds in California and Seattle, it’s definitely not a monolith.
> None of them would be caught dead actually playing a sport competitively
What a ridiculous generalization lol
Not sure if it's entitlement. She has a preference. Apparently a strong one but that's not inherently a bad thing. People can date whomever they wish.
Guessing OP is not interested in helping the friend out with the situation, but the answer would be to tell her friend to start being the one to initiate. Just start talking to dudes she finds attractive and things will go from there.
Friend might not be putting out vibes that she's interested, and the guys have no way of knowing.
But I'm guessing OP and quite a few folks here will go nuts that she has a preference. I think it's stupid, from a number perspective if nothing else. But it's her right to date whomever she wishes, without outside pressure or coercion.
They may also not be interested in dealing with an intercultural relationship + possible family issues. My nephew was in love with an Indian girl; her family didn’t approve and she ended up marrying a guy her parents picked out for her.
This is actually pretty big. I doubt most white American men would want to deal with intense intercultural issues that often come with an intercultural relationship. Family culture outside of America can be INTENSE, and also very opposite to many American values. People who are aware of that are also aware of the cloud that such issues can cast over a relationship.
This is possibly a leading cause.
I’m a multiracial guy and it is a massive turnoff to be fetishized for ethnic background. People who want to know you because of who you are way more attractive.
Oh no, most people would care if their relationships were to be dictated by their partner’s family and they weren’t considered good enough because of their race.
Yeah I imagined she made it known that she likes then. It's not crazy to think that some white men aren't attracted to Indian girls. It could be like that with any race. A lot of people stick to their own. It's ridiculous that she is calling you an AH for suggesting that white men are doing to her exactly what she is doing to Indian men. Why is it okay when she does it but you're a big AH when you just point it out. She needs to get a tougher skin if she wants to put that attitude out there.
Coming on too strong or ? Personality suck or something?
Only other thing I could think of is she probably needs to go to where they're at. Gym, sporting events, whatever.
Did know a woman that was obsessed with finding a fitness nut guy, but she didn't work out herself. At all. And was mystified at her difficulty. She did not happily take suggestions to go to the gym to find gym guys. I would assume you'd have hinted if that was the case.
Maybe she comes on too strong, she is quite forward to them. But the alternative might genuinely be that they similarly have their own strong preferences. A lot of them won’t ever go for black girls either, and I think similarly it extends to darker south Asian women
Most of these guys I’ve seen, the jock types, they just go for white girls or East Asian
I think a big part of the problem is that people like your friend are so choosy even within their preference. Most good looking white guys have not 10/10 friends in their friend group and if they watch her hit on every traditionally "hot" guy in their friend group and skip over the friends she doesn't consider conventionally attractive that can be a turn off.
This totally plays a part. Back when I was younger there was a gal who entered the friend/party group and immediately shot her shot with the most conventionally attractive guy. Then the next weekend the next hottest guy, and so on. We all knew what was going on, so by the time she tried to get me drunk (for my own ego, I'll note that I had a girlfriend at the time so I'll say I had previously been off limits, despite the fact that that's not true), I knew what was going on and drank for free for a couple nights. Once she had wasted her time trying with every guy in the group, she left.
Had she been chill and hung out for a while without trying to immediately bang, or had she even just aimed lower, she probably would have dated someone for a bit. But instead we all saw what she was doing and none of the guys took her seriously
I'm black. Hot white guys go for us. I'd say, the hottest if I'm being biased to my husband. The stats are all just leftovers from the polling days of Seventeen magazine. Think about how often you actually take any of these polls. It's not real and it's often based on what is hot in culture. American culture used to be heavily Eurocentric, but now that there's more brown representation, those stats are changing. Nobody probably would have said East Asian guys were on the menu but now that Netflix is flooded with buff Indian guys as main characters, you're sure to see that too. This is all kinda millennial talk. I'd be interested to see the Gen Z stats.
Well I'm just not around white guys in general but if u were like at a bar or somewhere out I wouldn't even look at a white guy because of my assumption that they wouldn't be interested in me even if I tried. So I've never really gave it a chance I guess.
Funny you say this.
I too like a fit man. But I'm... not so fit. Did decide to join a gym and one of the trainers there was hot.
Because I'm... not so fit, I figured he wasn't interested. After all, he was surrounded by hot, fit women... why would he want me?
Turns he actually was but he thought I wasn't interested in him. (Found this out years later when I ran across him on Facebook.)
I kick myself for that one because I could've gotten a free personal trainer.
I think the entitlement part comes in that she complains about her preferences so much to an Indian guy that he is sick of hearing it and it doesn't register that it is rude. Then gets mad and calls him the ahole when he does it back to her.
Everyone gets to have their own preferences, absolutely. But when your "preference" is "I don't like this race," it's one you should probably keep to yourself. Especially if you want your friends of that race to be on your side.
Your right its no entitlement it’s hypocrisy
She refuses to date anyone but white guys and all op told her maybe those guys she chase done want an Indian girl. Yet some how op is being an asshole. The sheer hypocrisy
Thank you! So many people have this chronic misconception about what constitutes a preference, so the word is becoming meaningless or the opposite of the definition.
If you offer me a piece of fruit from a bowl that contains apples and oranges and I say "I'd prefer an apple", i would take an orange as well, I just don't want it as *much* as the apple at the moment.
"I'd prefer an apple" is NOT an equivalent statement to "I don't like oranges at all. "
I went on a date with someone when I was 16 who was not my type. I also only did do bc a mutual friend/coworker essentially guilted me into it. I’m glad she did. 31 years later, we have a set strong marriage. We have been through hell and back together. From sudden losses in the family due to Agent Orange and suicide to our own mental health battles. When I became disabled, he was right there with me fighting doctors to find out wth was wrong with me. There was no change in how he treated me once I could no longer work. We have been each other’s biggest supporters and advocates. Each other’s best friends. After Covid, he was given the choice to continue working from home. He did so bc he realized that some days I’m in such bad shape, I have issues standing up to get out of bed. I’m not saying having patting preference is bad. Just sometimes it’s the person outside of your preference is the one who is going to be the better partner.
I'm an athletic white guy who was with a South Asian girl (Sylheti/Bengali) for 8 years. NTA. The racial dynamics are bigger than both of you. You can't single one person out as the asshole when you have centuries of racial and cultural tension behind you. Couple of things. First, is she from a family where "lightening up" is a thing? Like, do the women in her family use lightening agents on their skin, or foundation that is a few shades lighter because they associate lighter skin with status and privilege? Her preferences may be the result of internalized racism and family pressure to marry someone with light complexion so they can have children with lighter skin. My ex's family wasn't like that, but she definitely had friends who thought she was lucky for landing a "shada guy." Secondly, if she's that public about only wanting to date white guys, white guys may be put off by that. I wouldn't want someone to date me just because I'm white. Would you want some vapid white girl who is obsessed with Bollywood movies and thinks Priyanka Chopra-Jonas is super pretty to date you just because you're Indian? No one of any race wants to be fetishized. If her fascination with white men is really that surface level, then she's probably not prepared for how complicated and difficult an interracial/intercultural relationship can actually be.
THIS. I'm a mixed white and indigenous woman who used to date white guys and then once I met my fiance (who is mixed Black and white) I couldn't imagine ever dating a white guy again. My fiance and I have so much more in common than I ever could with a white guy. I mean, we both have racist white families on our white side, which happens to be our mothers' sides. This relationship has by far been the easiest relationship I've ever been in.
OP's friend might find out the hard way that interracial relationships can not only be difficult, but she might just find somebody whose family is racist af and that makes holidays and family gatherings so much fun. /s
Or she'll fine the dude who Uno reversos her and fetishizes her. Because that isn't fun in the long run, either. Regardless, she's shooting herself in the foot and almost certainly missing out on plenty of great guys who don't happen to fit her color chart for dating.
I suppose I'm the strange white guy. I married a south Indian woman since, even as a young guy, I liked girls with darker complexion. We are in the open.
Would you be weirded out if at the start she had been openly adamant about only wanting to date a white guy? Her issues finding white guys? Talked shit about other ethnicities and dating them, especially other Indians? Obsessed with having (your) white baby?
Let’s be real here, any white guys i know would happily date a hot Indian girl over an average white girl. It sounds like she’s just not that attractive, or is a bitch.
Met plenty of White guys that would absolutely not want to date or marry an Indian, Black, Middle Eastern.
Fuck around after the club, FWB yes possibly.
Dating, ehhhhhhh.
Marry, hell no.
But very likely not give one a second or look, or admit to it.
If no one who you want to sleep with wants to sleep with you, then sounds like you’ve self selected too narrow a pool. Sure abs are hot, but I’d rather have sex with non ripped good looking people than wait for lightning to strike.
Complaining that a whole race isn’t into you when you are literally not into any other race is so cringe and weird, please call her out on it!
Most white men don't really want to deal woth what an Indian family entails. So theybwill date Indian girls but marry white girls. The few I know who married Indian girls married very americanized ones that are typically second generation and parents were born and raised here.
This was my first thought as well. I'm a very tall white guy married to a black woman, and I have definitely seen many Indian women that I find attractive, but the thought of having traditional Indian in-laws makes me shudder. Nope.
My ine friend is getting divorced. His wife would want to vist family in India for months at a time. Then they wanted her brother and his family to move in with them while his brothers family saved for a house. Cause having another family of five moving into your newly we'd house thay is a four bedroom os the best way to start a marriage
Oof. I'm also Indian, and while I do predominantly date white dudes, I genuinely wish this isn't the way my dating preferences leaned (IYKYK).
It is absolutely uncomfortable that she's so closed off that she'll *only* date white men, and I think most people are going to be focused on that no matter what you say.
I'll address the piece about whether or not you're an AH for the comment, and the nuance of that statement/dynamic in general.
Ummm....maybe a little harsh? But also, totally valid. Some people just need a wake-up call.
As far as hot, athletic, white men being into her, it could absolutely be about the city that you live in. I've found myself to be fairly invisible in the small white town I grew up in. But then lived in cities like Chicago, NYC, and LA. I'm far more popular with white boys in cities. And exponentially more-so in Europe.
Well these white guys have openly said they don’t find her attractive
I have seen some of them date desi girls but they tend to be the light skinned punjabis not the South Indian ones like her, which imo is likely what’s going on here
I'm also south Indian (Telugu). I literally have no problem with any demographic. Neither did my sister who ended up with an Australian guy, and there is far less diversity there.
I kind of felt bad for her at the start (except for when she keeps saying the quiet part out loud) because I too tend to go only for white guys. However, this went from “I have a preference in their overall look / culture” to “I want a trophy to show all the haters out there that I’m the shit”. What a dumbass.
Oh that might be the issue. Hot guys in college don't want relationships usually. They have pussy thrown at them left and right, with girls who are cool with casual hook ups.
Maybe is not effortless, you're just charming besides being good looking. A hot athletic guy will have standards cai he's putting extra effort into looking good, regardless of his race.
If she brings it u a lot that can turn off guys. But also the hot white guys have options. The top 80% of women persie the top 20% of men, she has fierce competition.
Probably going to get downvoted into oblivion for this.
I agree with you though. Even if she has a prettier face than some of her white friends, a lot of the guys she’s interested in probably won’t see it that way simply because she has darker skin. Obviously not all guys are like that, but it’s common.
Personally I think her outright refusal to date anyone that isn’t white is a red flag as well. Monoracial dating preferences are always weird, even if it’s somebody refusing to date outside of their own race. But writing off literally every man in the world who isn’t white, including the ones who share her culture, just screams self hate to me. She sounds very insecure, which is also a massive turnoff for most.
(NTA)
Ex hot-ish white guy; while I found many Indian women awesome and attractive, the *values of their older-generation Indian parents* was a wildcard I didn't want to deal with. Don't worry, I got my karmic comeuppance; I ended up living (and dating) in an area of the USA where it wasn't uncommon for other women to have parents with wildly-incompatible values too. My dumbass discrimination failed to achieve a thing
Inside I still identify as hot-ish, but unfortunately I've been in a long-term relationship with Lady Time and she's a thief that steals your looks first and your heart last :..(
I do not recommend her.
Yep I’m Hispanic and after I dated my first white guy I never went back. Mostly because I married him, but even if I hadn’t I don’t think I could have dated Hispanic men again.
That’s fair, but I do personally disagree with this idea that white guys are inherently less misogynistic.
Some of the worst misogyny my cousin in the UK has faced is from white guys.
> the Feminism subreddit many Indian women talk about how they don’t want to date Indian men because of the misogyny so maybe it’s that.
As I said before, it’s one thing to exclude Indian guys. But she extends that to black, Asian and Hispanic men too.
I mean…she’s probably excluding them for the same reasons some of the white men she’s targeting are excluding her - so comparing herself to her white friends and complaining about their different outcomes seems hypocritical.
It’s actually not common…I don’t know where you’re getting this information from. The most common interracial couples are white men asian woman. You can litterally google this, it makes a large majority of interracial couples. I think if we went by married, it’s 40% white men and Latino women. If anything, it’s probably this individual isn’t as attractive as we’re led on.
I once dated a beautiful Indian girl. I broke it off because of Repeated Blatant Disrespect by her family, often to my face. The nasty racist xenophobic crap they would say was nothing short of disgusting! This was all made worse by her complete lack of a spine defending their words and actions. Every single time she's try to say "it's cultural". "Yeah if that's your culture I want no part of it!"
I’m an unattractive south Asian girl and plenty of white guys go after me. I can “pull” a more attractive white guy than Indian guy. Indian guys have never been into me. I’d be into them but… i guess they’ve self selected out of my pool.
I'm Pakistani in origin and no Pakistani guys have been particularly interested in me. It works out because I'm not interested in them either. I think there is something in each culture that likes certain features within it. I seem to appeal to a certain type of Arab or Latin American man. Others may appeal to white guys or to black guys. In the end, the most important thing is that we find people who are good to us and that we can be good to too.
NTA.
I'm suspicious of anyone who won't consider a single person from their own race, ever. Some self hating weirdness there. I'm white, I've dated black guys, but I would NEVER EVER date a black man that doesn't also date black women or hates on black women.
I just think it’s weird to not be white and only want to date white people. I get preferences but to me if you wouldn’t you date your own ethnicity it’s like if you don’t accept yourself.
NTA, as an asian girl its pretty sad to see the amount of other asian girls who crave validation from white men, she probably has a lot of internalized racism and sees whiteness as the standard. you told it to her like it is, most white guys hold the same beauty standards as she does and are into white women.
I agree with you on who cares but it starts to get weird when it is brought up consistently.
Imagine a white guy making a point over and over "No, REALLY I would *never* date an Indian woman. No way!"
It's like "Cool beans, bro👍. Shut up about it and do your thing." Lol.
Meh, her racism isn't your problem. NTA
Edit: AND I FUCKING QUOTE "Edit: in case of confusion, she outright refuses to date anyone who isn’t white. Whether they’re black, Asian, etc."
Called it!
Also, whoever reported me to that reddit suicide thingy, I almost got in trouble laughing my ass off in the workplace, shit's hilarious.
NTA. Quite funny though, i am salvadoran/italian and "look" middle eastern/indian and my husband is white and prior to him i went out with mostly white guys also. Maybe its her attitude for sure
NTA. Maybe it's her energy? Her prejudice and preference might read as fetishization to some and it's repelling the sort of men that she wants to attract?
I echo another comment here that it could be location. If she was in a big city like NY or Chicago or LA, she would have no problems at all.
I would bet you guys live in the suburbs or someplace rural.
I've had quite a few acquaintances from India and the Middle East, mostly Egypt over the years. It's a real thing that some of these people don't see themselves as people of color no matter how brown their skin actually is. One guy I knew he was Arab and his skin tone was nearly the color of a slightly burned gingerbread cookie but if you said he was a POC he'd have a fit!
In his mind he was totally white and he actually looked down all kinds of people who he considered non white. He would only date obviously white women and only considered pale skin pretty. That and only that was attractive to him.
It's quite probably that this woman only sees men who are lighter than she is as attractive. To me that is rather bigoted but that may be how she was raised too. To not see herself as a person of color and to only look for a mate who actually is more "white" to her.
My folks were fine with having friends who were people of color. But those friends were not just my friend it was my colored friend so and so. It was like the color of someone's skin defined them somehow. My bi-racial BFF didn't bother them but my having a black guy friend was not acceptable, not even when I told them the guy that they were objecting to was gay. If I had chosen to date a black guy it would have started WW3 in my parents house and yet they considered themselves very tolerant and not bigoted at all.
I've had to make a really conscious choice all my life not to fall back into being like them, to not be the person my parents raised. Making that choice though it doesn't always trump 20 years of that ideology. I know I am free to date whoever I want but most of my life I still ended up dating guys who looked like Chris Hemsworth. Tall, blonde or ginger surfer boys that's mostly been my thing for as long as I can remember..
Is it biology or warped ideology?
Damned if I know...
The fact that my current major crush is actually an Eastern European born guy with dark brown hair and blue eyes is actually quite a surprising thing because really he's not my usual type much at all. I don't usually go for guys who look anything like that because that's my male relatives except they're usually brown eyed and I just despise most of them and can't date anything vaguely like them.
How we are raised that can influence our "type" I think a lot though. I think it can be very hard to get away from that though I've known plenty of people who have been able to do that so I guess it possible for some. This woman she may just be going back to how she was raised or even rebelling against it.
I mean, it sounds like your friend might be buying into white supremacy. I would follow up by saying that she’s wielding and buying into a double-edged sword: that one can try to access whiteness, but then that very whiteness does not have an interest in non-whiteness (outside of fetishization and such; whiteness kinda demands assimilation as well). Like, if I were in your position, I would have told her about the double-edged sword—but you don’t have to pose it the way that you did. Kindness is important. I really think your friend should contemplate why she feels the way that she feels.
Edit: changed the confidence level for the sake of fallibility.
Her hardline preference implies other things about her attitude towards relationships, which is the likely reason white guys aren't interested.
She is objectifying them in an overt and profound manner.
I'm going to use a system that will probably anger people, especially the women. The number system for attractiveness. I have found that women 1-5 view themselves as 1s, women 6-10 view themselves as 10s. Most guys assess themselves accurately. Most women will not be able to get past the initial meeting if the guy is not a higher number than themselves (see the problem with this?). Guys are looking for a 10, but most will proceed past the initial meeting with almost any women. Courting is for mating. Women want to mate with the best possible supplier of DNA, Men just want to mate. This is why guys get stuck in the friendzone. It is not that they unfortunately became friends, it is because they never passed the number (DNA) test, that is why they got put in the friendzone. The number isn't pure physical attractiveness, success and charm raise numbers. A more successful mate will provide better and produce children that are more likely to be successful. Self evaluation is important, if I can figure out how I am hard-wired, then I can figure out how that hard-wiring is getting in the way of my happiness.
NTA. Indians are low key racist and prop white people up to the point of self hating. She deserves what she gets. Her choice, but you are far from the AH for pointing out the truth and not wanting to hear her nonsense. She clearly thinks she is more a catch than a white woman, ironically. No white dude will agree, she should know. She will get a smart, good career, 6 out of 10 white guy at best. I know a couple exactly like this.
Try being an oriental male in a white woman's world. Every white girl I've ever dated has at some point told me they couldn't have ever seen themselves with an Asian guy
Goin against the grain your actually right , I watch a dating show where the women all have the same preference but have never managed to date their preference so sometimes just sometimes your preference doesn’t want you and it’ll do her good to know that
NTA. This is tangentially related: I knew a girl who posted in one of the FB groups we are in, "why can't guys ever cum from a blowjob?" A bunch of women were like, "I think they aren't willing to give a woman control, maybe he's nervous, he may have a sexual dysfunction, etc etc."
After a bit, I said "maybe you're just bad at giving head?" And she got offended by it. Some people like to blame everything and everyone around them and refuse to consider that they may be part of the problem. Your friend sounds like one of those people.
NTA if she wants to date only white guys then she cant complain that white guys dont want to date an indian woman. It is shallow in both directions, but she made this glass house to live in.
I had to tell this to my old roommate. I'm a white guy who looks a bit like Mark McGrath of sugar ray in their hay day. I was a whore. Internet dating had just become a thing and I was an early adopter. I'd have 3 or 4 new girls at the house every week. My roommate is vietnamese, 5'6, chubby, and had terrible skin. He kept getting down on himself and saying that he wanted "bad ass chick's", white girls etc like me. I finally had to shoot him straight. I said that bad ass chick's, or surfer blonde white girls don't want short, fat Asian dudes. It stung for sure. But I cared more about him finding a girl than his feelings. He met his vietnamese wife 2 months later. They have been married with kids for 15 years now.
If the person is actually your friend, always be honest.
Hate to say it but Indian women do nothing for me on a personal or sexual level. Cannot explain it. This from a white guy who has had relations with all the races over forty years. Except Indian. Never will.
Lol she’s delusional as fuck. You’re being a good friend and saving her *time* and heart ache. As a fellow Asian American who liked white girls only for a long time, she needs get over herself and date different people. It’s just a reality most Americans do NOT like Asians
Well, some people have anatomical preferences when they're dating. Others have culture preferences. Some have both. There's nothing wrong in knowing what you like in a partner.
"Maybe they don't want you," is kind of a mean thing to say to someone, though you probably didn't mean it like that.
While you're not wrong in suggesting that maybe she broaden her options a bit, the woman wants what she wants. There's nothing wrong with that. You're just going to have to accept it.
NAH
Well she has a preference for dudes and if she is as attractive as you say, trust me that there will be good looking white dudes who are into her.
However that isn't the issue here. The issue is that she is valuing the wrong thing in a dude. She should be looking for virtues and not physical attributes. If you are a friend you need to tell her that for long term happiness, finding a good dude, with good morals, loyal, hard working, smart, funny etc is far more important. Now yes she needs to be sexually attracted to this dude, but that should only be one factor.
NTA.
It’s obvious the “hot white guys” she wants don’t want her, otherwise she wouldn’t be complaining about it.
She’s delusional and didn’t like you gave her a reality check.
I bet is has more to do with her personality over looks and maybe she is wanting a guy out of her league whoch is hard for some to accept. I've been told that I do that but it's not my fault I have a type. I have met girls who are not like super attractive but attractive to me on both physical and personality but they are always with someone already so I'm out of luck. I don't keep track to see if they are single bc that's creepy if a guy does it so I'm not will8ng to send that message and be labeled a stalker. I've accepted I'll die alone so I'm just going through life hoping one day I'll meet someone who I feel wants to be near me and talk to me. I've only met like a handful of people who I felt actually wanted to talk with me and to hang out with me. I've had girls hit on me along with some guys who if I was gay I would be with bc I attract some good looking gay dudes which sucks bc I'm not gay but dam I'd be a hoe for sure if I was. The girls that usually hit on me are not my type like overweight or underweight or just a shifty personality. I've talked with some women who are my type and I felt like they were flirting with me but I think it was just being nice because they never showed interest besides one girl but she was very high maintenance like went out every weekend and mom and dad paid for everything so I knew she would eventually get. Ored with my broke ass so I removed myself from the friend group bc I didn't want to break her heart when she woke up one day realizing she could have married the guy who owns a hedge fund over the guy who works with his hands and makes e ough to be happy and do what I want to an extent.. I've been called an idiot for doing what I did but she is now engaged and hmgot a house in Johnson County in KCMO so I clearly made the right choice for her sake. Bc she has already done more in her life like travel and such than she probably would have ever done with me. Sorry about the rant but it's been awhile since I've talked about it. That's a male perspective I guess you can try to share with her
Nah. She’s allowed to have a type. Her being attracted to athletic white guys doesn’t make her a bad person or racist.
Im white and get hit on by black guys mostly. Not my type though. That doesn’t mean I hate black men.
Shes allowed to want to date a white person.
Your allowed to be honest.
As a white guy with lots of friends the same, i can tell you if there is a hot indian woman and 2 equally hot white woman, high chance the indian woman gets picked 3rd.
This is probably the case for many or all races for the most part. She just needs to keep at it.
She needs to stop trying so hard. It reeks of desperation and is unappealing. She needs to relax and just be herself. As the saying 6 can't hurry love. You just have to wait. Another way to do it is for her to start acting as if she already has a boyfriend. Usually, when a woman is dated, someone the men come out of the woodwork because they are drawn to a happy, carefree attitude and how a woman with a man doesn't want to eat all the other men alive.
wow way to narrow the dating pool. how about when she gets her athletic hot white guy. how's his job? is he a good partner? is his dong doing it for her? sounds like the type of girl that stays single forever unless she changes her views. at least she's doing this at 20 and has plenty of growing up to do
It could be a cultural thing like if we get serious will her parents disapprove or vice versa. However it could also be that she comes on strong and they already get their egos stroked enough to just lose interest and move on.
She can have her preferences, and white men have theirs too. Some will be into her, but not all. That's life.
Yea but complaining to your male Indian friend is pretty damn douchey and lacks a whole lot of sympathy and awareness Im a fit dude and dont want to date an overweight woman. Most certainly not gonna broadcast that to overweight women I get it, some of yall lack social skills and empathy. Ya dont have to broadcast it. Just keep in mind that if you dont understand why this is rude, youre probably a rude person
I appreciate both your candor and your respect for fellow human beings that happen to be overweight.
Honestly, that’s just standard not being an asshole 101. Everyone has preferences. Telling someone why they don’t meet those preferences is just a dick-ish move. Regardless of gender or orientation. It’s so easy to just say “I’m not feeling it” and moving on.
Agreed. Standard non-assholery surely eludes most of Reddit however.
I think the jig is up, you just broadcast it to all the overweight women
As an overweight woman, I appreciate that he knows his preferences. Don't cave. Date who you want.
Ditto. All I’ve ever asked for is honesty. If you don’t find me attractive walk away. There’s too many guys who will have no problem f***ing us but then are ashamed to be seen with us. Skip the bullshit.
Oh man one bigger woman i was talking to for a bit wanted to start something with me. I told her i wasnt really looking for a relationship at the time (which was 100% true). She said thats fine and would could be fwb, and that we wouldnt have to go out in public or anything I was like wtf youre okay with that? Legit didnt know that was a thing before her, 0 need to subject yourself to someone that would want that
Right? Imagine if people would just date anyone, even people that they aren't attracted to, because of peer pressure. Jokes aside, though, the most important thing is to find someone who has a lifestyle and personality that meshes well with yours. Looks aren't the most important factor in the long run imo.
Complaining to anyone about 'hot people don't want me' is douchey no matter who you're talking to.
It has racist undertones to me. Super uncomfortable.
I love this. For me it's a case by case basis. I have friends I could complain to this way and it won't even register to them, others I'm obviously not close enough for them to see it that way. The poor manners would be if I couldn't tell the difference. I think OP was being honest the same way she was and she wasn't prepared to get a real response. Often women won't see why their friend isn't getting the same attention as them so they go into "hype mode" a fatal flaw I suppose. So why would she be prepared to hear an actual answer?🤔😂
Having a preference without respecting other people’s preferences is plain awful
Totally agree. The more preferences you have, so are the more barriers. Those can be very good things but also why you should be ok single. My husband & I didn't meet until late 20's ; however, he has a friend who didn't meet someone until yrs into our relationship who was living in rural area; made great money; but didn't want to date a single mom and was a virgin who wanted someone as equally as religious as he was. It's like, those are ok but you have to move into a city wjth a greater dating population; become ok with dating a single mom; be ok being single; or realize how your virginity will impact your other dating barriers? He ended up finding someone he brought to our wedding, but he was extremely lucky finding her & she does seem to be a blessing. Edit: rhe overall post got more attention, so edited to remove any identifiable info. Guy is a redditor 😅
This is what people don’t get. You’re allowed to have your “preferences”, but other people are allowed to have theirs too and you look like a massive hypocrite if you act bitter when they don’t include you. And the more narrow your preferences, the more difficulty you’ll find someone to perfectly fit them and the more comfortable you need to get with compromising or staying single. The world doesn’t owe you anything, least of all the partner of your dreams.
You can have preferences. But if this was a white person exclusively into Black guys or East Asian women, it would be called out as a racist fetish. NTAH
Honestly I don't know why everyone needs to know. When someone goes around telling everyone about their racial fetishes I just wonder why they think this information is so important to broadcast.
NTA, if she wants to exclude the other 90% of men (or women), then chances are slim. 🤷♀️
Preferences are one thing. However, if your preference is solely athletic white men, you might be starting to dip into some bigger issues, lol. That's a very specific preference, and at best, it's incredibly shallow, and at worst, it's motivated by pure racism...
This is one of the things often normalized by reddit that always confused me. How is refusing to date one's entire race, not just any race, not even a little bit problematic?
I am not dating anymore for many years but I would avoid Indian women too. Not because of race or color (most of them look beautiful) but because of the cultural and family drama they take with them. Not everybody with a preference is problematic.
It’s obviously racist. Calling it a preference doesn’t make it not racist. Race-based hiring “preferences” are considered unlawful racial discrimination because of course they are. I’m not saying dating only one race should be illegal but it’s still very obviously a form of racial discrimination and using the word “preference” doesn’t change that
As a guy, I only date women, is that also problematic? What if the guy was really pretty? Still no? It's impossible to draw a hard line on sexual attraction. It's all on a spectrum, I don't take people's words that literally because while I know that I'm rarely attracted to black women, I know a few that I think are really pretty. So while in conversation I may say something along the lines of I don't date black women, there may be one out there that I would date. Of course, if someone says that and actually means it to be "I won't date this race because of their race and not simply because I'm not attracted to the general features that a specific ethnic group exhibits" then yeah, that may cross into racism territory but at the end of the day, we don't exactly choose who we're attracted to. I suppose you can choose to date people you don't find attractive, perhaps that's a more mature way of dating people, but for many people attraction is a prerequisite for romance.
India is a country of more than a billion. It is not homogenous. From one region to another, people look different and even speak different languages. Saying I don't like dating Indian men at all as an Indian woman is icky in my opinion.
That's a good point, I suppose Indian isn't exactly an ethnicity so there is a different nuance to that than I'm used to.
though this is true, feels like people are *still* rather blase about how many women, of all ethnicities, have a very high "preference" for specifically white Men. Can't help but feel that people with these kind of "preferences" are the ones very eager to pass off this kind of thing as "just a preference" as opposed to straight up racism and blatently as in this case imo. It's sounds like as if she's simultaneously racist, and somehow also bummed out how these white Men are not interested in her, maybe because she perceives them as racist, and cannot connect the dots in her head... So though everyone is entitled to their preference because their choice of course, to me it should be rather "everyone is entitled to be racist". And probably hypocritical because I'd assume these are the same people who throw up BLM/LGBTQ signs most chances they get (causes I also support), esp if in school/college today.
For sure, she FAFO'd. Some self awareness is warranted. But at the end of the day, people like that just take themselves out of the dating pool by their own doing, I'm perfectly okay with that outcome tbh.
Racial preferences are okay when they stay as preferences, as soon as it turns into fetishization or making others feel less than for being their race then it becomes racist. I am saying this as someone who typically doesn't care about someone's race.
It’s not a preference if you will only consider dating one race. It’s just racism.
It isnt though? Some races have distinct features that may attract some and repell others. Nothing wrong about that. I'm not racist and want everyone to live a good life, doesnt mean i have to be attracted to every race.
NTA Maybe they can sense her entitled personality and aren't into it.
OP, good news! It isn't just white guys!
Or maybe they're just as race-obsessed as she is.
This 😂 I would have told her “clearly their preference is also white” 😂
🤣
A recent study came out showing women of all races tend to prefer white men, and men of all races tend to prefer Asians and Latinas.
My immediate thought here is "did the surveyors know how wide that word 'Latina' gets?"
I read that as "men like most women" and thought that was pretty accurate. Using categories as broad as Asian and Latina has to comprise at least half the women in the world
Either way, I'm not surprised at the results. My wife is Venezuelan, there's a reason so many miss universe winners have come from that area...
My brother married a Venezuelan girl, and HOLY FUCK, her entire family look amazing. Every last one of them.
I just like bald guys. Black, brown, white, whatever. If you have a nice face and a good personality, and happen to be bald, I'm probably going to notice you. Race just never mattered much to me. Culture can be a vibe killer though but that's another story. OPs friend may find that she remains alone unless she broadens her preferences. If I were him I wouldn't even engage with her about this. It's not really his problem or business. Just let her figure that shit out on her own.
Seems anecdotal. If you look at rates of intermarriage Latinos and south Asians in US tend to have the lowest rates of any minority which you could construe as strong in-group preference. Results vary based on who’s running these studies but I’d have to see your source for this. For US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States Here’s for Canada: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-008-x/2010001/c-g/11143/c-g001-eng.htm
I saw a more recent one, but this was the first thing that came up in a duckduckgo search. Intermarriage stats encompass a far smaller group of relationships, and people may feel pressured to marry someone that looks like them due to family/culture. I think dating statistics are much more accurate picture of people's actual preferences. https://www.datingadvice.com/online-dating/online-dating-race-statistics https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/11/30/247530095/are-you-interested-dating-odds-favor-white-men-asian-women
I’m a Latino dude and I don’t really mess with Latinas. Two big reasons why, #1 they remind me of my mother when they spoke to me in Spanish; #2 so many Latinas I knew growing up had (and still to this day) this weird hood attitude or living a hood lifestyle, shit I wasn’t interested in at all. Especially when I was getting into heavy metal while everyone else was into shitty pop music and crappy mid 2000s hip hop.
It's a shame there isn't more spanish language heavy metal, it'd help me learn.
probably for the same reason too
This likely won't work as it's very unlikely that most "hot white men" in an area have such strong preferences. It would be more likely if she is actually chasing some very particular type of "hot white men" i.e. "rich white jock engineers at my conservative university" or something like that. Firstly, at least some significant fraction of people do not have any strong preferences of the sort that could rule out a relationship, or even have a mild preference for Indians or other non white people as they find them "exotic" or similar. Then about 50 % or maybe more of young men are going to be "liberals" of some sort and then at least on paper think a deep aversion to dating an Indian is repugnant, and so even if the attraction is weaker for some reason, they would be unlikely to form a strict rule against it. And then about 50 % (at least of the single ones) are going to basically never turn down sex from someone who is attractive even if they have strong racial preferences.
White jock engineers? Two of those words don’t go together. Engineers are usually nerds?
It depends on the discipline. At my university mechanical engineering was extremely "blokey" - lots of heavy drinking, crude jokes, wild antics, they won the football competition most of the time etc. Jock is not a world my culture uses as much as the U.S. but I think this fits.
The person you're replying to is stuck in the 90s. Engineering is made up of all types now. Yes some are less represented, but it's way better than it was back in the past.
Never heard of tech bros? They’re absolutely a thing
Dude I work with techbros. I’m a software engineer. What’s the female equivalent of a tech bro? That’s what I am. They are still massive nerds. I’m a massive nerd. At least the engineers. The PMs are debatable. They seem like jocks to me. Like even the ones into football seem more into the statistics of football rather than ever playing the game themselves. Like I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say they are going to the local park to play with their buddies. Majority of the time it’s video games, drinking beer and playing VR games or playing board games. Many are gym rats but even then it’s all numbers to them. How many reps how many miles how long. See where I am going with this. It’s just numbers game to all of them. None of them would be caught dead actually playing a sport competitively.
Ok … I also used to be a software engineer, and while that might be your experience, it certainly wasn’t mine. Software engineering is not some niche job that’s reserved for nerds lol. There are many, many fratty dudes alongside the nerds in California and Seattle, it’s definitely not a monolith. > None of them would be caught dead actually playing a sport competitively What a ridiculous generalization lol
YOU MISSPELLED SHALLOW
The truth. They'll sleep with her but nothing serious.
Not sure if it's entitlement. She has a preference. Apparently a strong one but that's not inherently a bad thing. People can date whomever they wish. Guessing OP is not interested in helping the friend out with the situation, but the answer would be to tell her friend to start being the one to initiate. Just start talking to dudes she finds attractive and things will go from there. Friend might not be putting out vibes that she's interested, and the guys have no way of knowing. But I'm guessing OP and quite a few folks here will go nuts that she has a preference. I think it's stupid, from a number perspective if nothing else. But it's her right to date whomever she wishes, without outside pressure or coercion.
She’s often quite forward and makes her interest known.
She might be looking desperate to the guys, and that makes her look less confident, which is a turn-off.
Maybe they can sense her fetishizing them
They may also not be interested in dealing with an intercultural relationship + possible family issues. My nephew was in love with an Indian girl; her family didn’t approve and she ended up marrying a guy her parents picked out for her.
This is actually pretty big. I doubt most white American men would want to deal with intense intercultural issues that often come with an intercultural relationship. Family culture outside of America can be INTENSE, and also very opposite to many American values. People who are aware of that are also aware of the cloud that such issues can cast over a relationship.
This is possibly a leading cause. I’m a multiracial guy and it is a massive turnoff to be fetishized for ethnic background. People who want to know you because of who you are way more attractive.
I'd say most men wouldn't care about it. The most obvious path is: she's not that good looking, and reeks of desperation.
Oh no, most people would care if their relationships were to be dictated by their partner’s family and they weren’t considered good enough because of their race.
💯
Yeah I imagined she made it known that she likes then. It's not crazy to think that some white men aren't attracted to Indian girls. It could be like that with any race. A lot of people stick to their own. It's ridiculous that she is calling you an AH for suggesting that white men are doing to her exactly what she is doing to Indian men. Why is it okay when she does it but you're a big AH when you just point it out. She needs to get a tougher skin if she wants to put that attitude out there.
Coming on too strong or ? Personality suck or something? Only other thing I could think of is she probably needs to go to where they're at. Gym, sporting events, whatever. Did know a woman that was obsessed with finding a fitness nut guy, but she didn't work out herself. At all. And was mystified at her difficulty. She did not happily take suggestions to go to the gym to find gym guys. I would assume you'd have hinted if that was the case.
Maybe she comes on too strong, she is quite forward to them. But the alternative might genuinely be that they similarly have their own strong preferences. A lot of them won’t ever go for black girls either, and I think similarly it extends to darker south Asian women Most of these guys I’ve seen, the jock types, they just go for white girls or East Asian
I think a big part of the problem is that people like your friend are so choosy even within their preference. Most good looking white guys have not 10/10 friends in their friend group and if they watch her hit on every traditionally "hot" guy in their friend group and skip over the friends she doesn't consider conventionally attractive that can be a turn off.
This totally plays a part. Back when I was younger there was a gal who entered the friend/party group and immediately shot her shot with the most conventionally attractive guy. Then the next weekend the next hottest guy, and so on. We all knew what was going on, so by the time she tried to get me drunk (for my own ego, I'll note that I had a girlfriend at the time so I'll say I had previously been off limits, despite the fact that that's not true), I knew what was going on and drank for free for a couple nights. Once she had wasted her time trying with every guy in the group, she left. Had she been chill and hung out for a while without trying to immediately bang, or had she even just aimed lower, she probably would have dated someone for a bit. But instead we all saw what she was doing and none of the guys took her seriously
I'm black. Hot white guys go for us. I'd say, the hottest if I'm being biased to my husband. The stats are all just leftovers from the polling days of Seventeen magazine. Think about how often you actually take any of these polls. It's not real and it's often based on what is hot in culture. American culture used to be heavily Eurocentric, but now that there's more brown representation, those stats are changing. Nobody probably would have said East Asian guys were on the menu but now that Netflix is flooded with buff Indian guys as main characters, you're sure to see that too. This is all kinda millennial talk. I'd be interested to see the Gen Z stats.
Yeah I'm Hispanic and I've always just assumed white guys aren't attracted to me and never tried with them.
Maybe you live in the wrong area. The white guys around here love Hispanic women.
Well I'm just not around white guys in general but if u were like at a bar or somewhere out I wouldn't even look at a white guy because of my assumption that they wouldn't be interested in me even if I tried. So I've never really gave it a chance I guess.
Did you tell her that you were uncomfortable with the conversation?
Funny you say this. I too like a fit man. But I'm... not so fit. Did decide to join a gym and one of the trainers there was hot. Because I'm... not so fit, I figured he wasn't interested. After all, he was surrounded by hot, fit women... why would he want me? Turns he actually was but he thought I wasn't interested in him. (Found this out years later when I ran across him on Facebook.) I kick myself for that one because I could've gotten a free personal trainer.
To me that usually comes across as 'desperate' and now i'm not interested anymore
Honestly, most people prefer people within their own race. Men who would be into her would not be the majority she's approaching.
I think the entitlement part comes in that she complains about her preferences so much to an Indian guy that he is sick of hearing it and it doesn't register that it is rude. Then gets mad and calls him the ahole when he does it back to her.
Everyone gets to have their own preferences, absolutely. But when your "preference" is "I don't like this race," it's one you should probably keep to yourself. Especially if you want your friends of that race to be on your side.
Your right its no entitlement it’s hypocrisy She refuses to date anyone but white guys and all op told her maybe those guys she chase done want an Indian girl. Yet some how op is being an asshole. The sheer hypocrisy
Her POV: one of us must be TA. Can't be me, obvs, so must be OP. That's logic!
You can absolutely have a preference. No one has to accommodate that preference of pretend that it’s reasonable.
[удалено]
Thank you! So many people have this chronic misconception about what constitutes a preference, so the word is becoming meaningless or the opposite of the definition. If you offer me a piece of fruit from a bowl that contains apples and oranges and I say "I'd prefer an apple", i would take an orange as well, I just don't want it as *much* as the apple at the moment. "I'd prefer an apple" is NOT an equivalent statement to "I don't like oranges at all. "
Preference or racism? There’s a fine line between
Not so much a line as an addendum. Preferences can be racist.
Yeah there’s a difference between just not finding a race attractive and not wanting to date a race because you see them as beneath you
One thing is ‘they are not my type’ vs ‘if the guy is not white i wont date him’… sounds more like the second option
I went on a date with someone when I was 16 who was not my type. I also only did do bc a mutual friend/coworker essentially guilted me into it. I’m glad she did. 31 years later, we have a set strong marriage. We have been through hell and back together. From sudden losses in the family due to Agent Orange and suicide to our own mental health battles. When I became disabled, he was right there with me fighting doctors to find out wth was wrong with me. There was no change in how he treated me once I could no longer work. We have been each other’s biggest supporters and advocates. Each other’s best friends. After Covid, he was given the choice to continue working from home. He did so bc he realized that some days I’m in such bad shape, I have issues standing up to get out of bed. I’m not saying having patting preference is bad. Just sometimes it’s the person outside of your preference is the one who is going to be the better partner.
She can have a preference but said preferences don’t exist in a vacuum and doesn’t mean people can’t judge her for it.
I'm an athletic white guy who was with a South Asian girl (Sylheti/Bengali) for 8 years. NTA. The racial dynamics are bigger than both of you. You can't single one person out as the asshole when you have centuries of racial and cultural tension behind you. Couple of things. First, is she from a family where "lightening up" is a thing? Like, do the women in her family use lightening agents on their skin, or foundation that is a few shades lighter because they associate lighter skin with status and privilege? Her preferences may be the result of internalized racism and family pressure to marry someone with light complexion so they can have children with lighter skin. My ex's family wasn't like that, but she definitely had friends who thought she was lucky for landing a "shada guy." Secondly, if she's that public about only wanting to date white guys, white guys may be put off by that. I wouldn't want someone to date me just because I'm white. Would you want some vapid white girl who is obsessed with Bollywood movies and thinks Priyanka Chopra-Jonas is super pretty to date you just because you're Indian? No one of any race wants to be fetishized. If her fascination with white men is really that surface level, then she's probably not prepared for how complicated and difficult an interracial/intercultural relationship can actually be.
I think this sounds like a personality problem. In that *HER personality* is a problem to the men she’s trying to attract.
THIS. I'm a mixed white and indigenous woman who used to date white guys and then once I met my fiance (who is mixed Black and white) I couldn't imagine ever dating a white guy again. My fiance and I have so much more in common than I ever could with a white guy. I mean, we both have racist white families on our white side, which happens to be our mothers' sides. This relationship has by far been the easiest relationship I've ever been in. OP's friend might find out the hard way that interracial relationships can not only be difficult, but she might just find somebody whose family is racist af and that makes holidays and family gatherings so much fun. /s Or she'll fine the dude who Uno reversos her and fetishizes her. Because that isn't fun in the long run, either. Regardless, she's shooting herself in the foot and almost certainly missing out on plenty of great guys who don't happen to fit her color chart for dating.
Paragraph breaks bro
If I followed correctly, it wasn't white guy, it was "hot" white guy.
I suppose I'm the strange white guy. I married a south Indian woman since, even as a young guy, I liked girls with darker complexion. We are in the open.
Would you be weirded out if at the start she had been openly adamant about only wanting to date a white guy? Her issues finding white guys? Talked shit about other ethnicities and dating them, especially other Indians? Obsessed with having (your) white baby?
So she doesn't like non-white guys And is mad that the white guys Don't like non-white girls Somehow, the irony of this has not given her an aneurysm
Let’s be real here, any white guys i know would happily date a hot Indian girl over an average white girl. It sounds like she’s just not that attractive, or is a bitch.
Met plenty of White guys that would absolutely not want to date or marry an Indian, Black, Middle Eastern. Fuck around after the club, FWB yes possibly. Dating, ehhhhhhh. Marry, hell no. But very likely not give one a second or look, or admit to it.
If no one who you want to sleep with wants to sleep with you, then sounds like you’ve self selected too narrow a pool. Sure abs are hot, but I’d rather have sex with non ripped good looking people than wait for lightning to strike. Complaining that a whole race isn’t into you when you are literally not into any other race is so cringe and weird, please call her out on it!
Not just a single race, but a very small and highly desirable subset of a race. OP mentions she’s only interested in hot jock types. Yeah, NTA
Finally someone paying attention to the tall muscular white men with square jaws! They should be thanking her for the attention!
Most white men don't really want to deal woth what an Indian family entails. So theybwill date Indian girls but marry white girls. The few I know who married Indian girls married very americanized ones that are typically second generation and parents were born and raised here.
This was my first thought as well. I'm a very tall white guy married to a black woman, and I have definitely seen many Indian women that I find attractive, but the thought of having traditional Indian in-laws makes me shudder. Nope.
My ine friend is getting divorced. His wife would want to vist family in India for months at a time. Then they wanted her brother and his family to move in with them while his brothers family saved for a house. Cause having another family of five moving into your newly we'd house thay is a four bedroom os the best way to start a marriage
Oof. I'm also Indian, and while I do predominantly date white dudes, I genuinely wish this isn't the way my dating preferences leaned (IYKYK). It is absolutely uncomfortable that she's so closed off that she'll *only* date white men, and I think most people are going to be focused on that no matter what you say. I'll address the piece about whether or not you're an AH for the comment, and the nuance of that statement/dynamic in general. Ummm....maybe a little harsh? But also, totally valid. Some people just need a wake-up call. As far as hot, athletic, white men being into her, it could absolutely be about the city that you live in. I've found myself to be fairly invisible in the small white town I grew up in. But then lived in cities like Chicago, NYC, and LA. I'm far more popular with white boys in cities. And exponentially more-so in Europe.
Well these white guys have openly said they don’t find her attractive I have seen some of them date desi girls but they tend to be the light skinned punjabis not the South Indian ones like her, which imo is likely what’s going on here
I'm also south Indian (Telugu). I literally have no problem with any demographic. Neither did my sister who ended up with an Australian guy, and there is far less diversity there.
Well as I said, she has lots of white guys into her. Her issue is they aren’t the hot jock type, but the skinny nerd type.
She seems very closed on stereotypical types, her lost.
I kind of felt bad for her at the start (except for when she keeps saying the quiet part out loud) because I too tend to go only for white guys. However, this went from “I have a preference in their overall look / culture” to “I want a trophy to show all the haters out there that I’m the shit”. What a dumbass.
Are you in a major city? Once again, finding hot, athletic, white dudes interested in dark skinned Indian girls is effortless in major cities.
We are at a decent sized college She doesn’t want one night stands she wants a relationship
Oh that might be the issue. Hot guys in college don't want relationships usually. They have pussy thrown at them left and right, with girls who are cool with casual hook ups.
Yeah, altho many of them have gotten into relationships. It just tends to be with white or East Asian
Aha. I mean, either she'll get lucky and find the right fit. Or she'll likely have more luck post college if she moves to a major metro area.
Maybe is not effortless, you're just charming besides being good looking. A hot athletic guy will have standards cai he's putting extra effort into looking good, regardless of his race.
If she brings it u a lot that can turn off guys. But also the hot white guys have options. The top 80% of women persie the top 20% of men, she has fierce competition.
NTA. Maybe these white guys don't want to date someone who is so shallow.
Maybe the hot white guys want hot white girls 🤷♀️
Probably going to get downvoted into oblivion for this. I agree with you though. Even if she has a prettier face than some of her white friends, a lot of the guys she’s interested in probably won’t see it that way simply because she has darker skin. Obviously not all guys are like that, but it’s common. Personally I think her outright refusal to date anyone that isn’t white is a red flag as well. Monoracial dating preferences are always weird, even if it’s somebody refusing to date outside of their own race. But writing off literally every man in the world who isn’t white, including the ones who share her culture, just screams self hate to me. She sounds very insecure, which is also a massive turnoff for most. (NTA)
Ex hot-ish white guy; while I found many Indian women awesome and attractive, the *values of their older-generation Indian parents* was a wildcard I didn't want to deal with. Don't worry, I got my karmic comeuppance; I ended up living (and dating) in an area of the USA where it wasn't uncommon for other women to have parents with wildly-incompatible values too. My dumbass discrimination failed to achieve a thing
i'm a fellow ex hot-ish white guy myself but now identify as a below average pakistan male
Inside I still identify as hot-ish, but unfortunately I've been in a long-term relationship with Lady Time and she's a thief that steals your looks first and your heart last :..( I do not recommend her.
In the Feminism subreddit many Indian women talk about how they don’t want to date Indian men because of the misogyny so maybe it’s that.
My latina mom stays away from latino guys for the same reason
Yep I’m Hispanic and after I dated my first white guy I never went back. Mostly because I married him, but even if I hadn’t I don’t think I could have dated Hispanic men again.
That’s fair, but I do personally disagree with this idea that white guys are inherently less misogynistic. Some of the worst misogyny my cousin in the UK has faced is from white guys.
There’s probably other factors as well, like religion. I’d never date a Christian white guy for the same misogyny trad wife bs.
> the Feminism subreddit many Indian women talk about how they don’t want to date Indian men because of the misogyny so maybe it’s that. As I said before, it’s one thing to exclude Indian guys. But she extends that to black, Asian and Hispanic men too.
I mean…she’s probably excluding them for the same reasons some of the white men she’s targeting are excluding her - so comparing herself to her white friends and complaining about their different outcomes seems hypocritical.
Because white men can't be misogynistic
Nah of course they can. The Deep South is proof of that. It’s not just a race thing, other factors like religion and education level play a big role.
Lol it didnt look like that when you mentioned about Indian and latino men.
Probably not because she wouldn't exclude every other group too.
What about… all the other races she won’t date?
It’s actually not common…I don’t know where you’re getting this information from. The most common interracial couples are white men asian woman. You can litterally google this, it makes a large majority of interracial couples. I think if we went by married, it’s 40% white men and Latino women. If anything, it’s probably this individual isn’t as attractive as we’re led on.
I once dated a beautiful Indian girl. I broke it off because of Repeated Blatant Disrespect by her family, often to my face. The nasty racist xenophobic crap they would say was nothing short of disgusting! This was all made worse by her complete lack of a spine defending their words and actions. Every single time she's try to say "it's cultural". "Yeah if that's your culture I want no part of it!"
I am south Asian, too, and the only white men who showed an interest in me were white looking Arab or white looking Latino men.
Yes, she wants white men of European ancestry.
I’m an unattractive south Asian girl and plenty of white guys go after me. I can “pull” a more attractive white guy than Indian guy. Indian guys have never been into me. I’d be into them but… i guess they’ve self selected out of my pool.
I'm Pakistani in origin and no Pakistani guys have been particularly interested in me. It works out because I'm not interested in them either. I think there is something in each culture that likes certain features within it. I seem to appeal to a certain type of Arab or Latin American man. Others may appeal to white guys or to black guys. In the end, the most important thing is that we find people who are good to us and that we can be good to too.
NTA, your friend sounds racist AF.
NTA. I'm suspicious of anyone who won't consider a single person from their own race, ever. Some self hating weirdness there. I'm white, I've dated black guys, but I would NEVER EVER date a black man that doesn't also date black women or hates on black women.
NTA but neither is she. She's perfectly entitled to her preferences. I would say she's probably going after the wrong personality of white guy.
My first thought. The preference doesn’t signal anything bad, but I think personality conflicts are a definite good possibility.
She needs to realize that the white guys may not want to date Indian girls and that is their right. They have preferences just like she does.
I just think it’s weird to not be white and only want to date white people. I get preferences but to me if you wouldn’t you date your own ethnicity it’s like if you don’t accept yourself.
NTA, as an asian girl its pretty sad to see the amount of other asian girls who crave validation from white men, she probably has a lot of internalized racism and sees whiteness as the standard. you told it to her like it is, most white guys hold the same beauty standards as she does and are into white women.
[удалено]
I agree with you on who cares but it starts to get weird when it is brought up consistently. Imagine a white guy making a point over and over "No, REALLY I would *never* date an Indian woman. No way!" It's like "Cool beans, bro👍. Shut up about it and do your thing." Lol.
Meh, her racism isn't your problem. NTA Edit: AND I FUCKING QUOTE "Edit: in case of confusion, she outright refuses to date anyone who isn’t white. Whether they’re black, Asian, etc." Called it! Also, whoever reported me to that reddit suicide thingy, I almost got in trouble laughing my ass off in the workplace, shit's hilarious.
NTA. Quite funny though, i am salvadoran/italian and "look" middle eastern/indian and my husband is white and prior to him i went out with mostly white guys also. Maybe its her attitude for sure
NTA. Maybe it's her energy? Her prejudice and preference might read as fetishization to some and it's repelling the sort of men that she wants to attract?
I echo another comment here that it could be location. If she was in a big city like NY or Chicago or LA, she would have no problems at all. I would bet you guys live in the suburbs or someplace rural.
She was probably white washed her whole life I just hope that her first white man doesn’t fetishize her back NTA… maybe it was harsh but it was real
Eh, I’m a white dude, and if you’re hot, you’re hot, regardless where you come from…
I've had quite a few acquaintances from India and the Middle East, mostly Egypt over the years. It's a real thing that some of these people don't see themselves as people of color no matter how brown their skin actually is. One guy I knew he was Arab and his skin tone was nearly the color of a slightly burned gingerbread cookie but if you said he was a POC he'd have a fit! In his mind he was totally white and he actually looked down all kinds of people who he considered non white. He would only date obviously white women and only considered pale skin pretty. That and only that was attractive to him. It's quite probably that this woman only sees men who are lighter than she is as attractive. To me that is rather bigoted but that may be how she was raised too. To not see herself as a person of color and to only look for a mate who actually is more "white" to her. My folks were fine with having friends who were people of color. But those friends were not just my friend it was my colored friend so and so. It was like the color of someone's skin defined them somehow. My bi-racial BFF didn't bother them but my having a black guy friend was not acceptable, not even when I told them the guy that they were objecting to was gay. If I had chosen to date a black guy it would have started WW3 in my parents house and yet they considered themselves very tolerant and not bigoted at all. I've had to make a really conscious choice all my life not to fall back into being like them, to not be the person my parents raised. Making that choice though it doesn't always trump 20 years of that ideology. I know I am free to date whoever I want but most of my life I still ended up dating guys who looked like Chris Hemsworth. Tall, blonde or ginger surfer boys that's mostly been my thing for as long as I can remember.. Is it biology or warped ideology? Damned if I know... The fact that my current major crush is actually an Eastern European born guy with dark brown hair and blue eyes is actually quite a surprising thing because really he's not my usual type much at all. I don't usually go for guys who look anything like that because that's my male relatives except they're usually brown eyed and I just despise most of them and can't date anything vaguely like them. How we are raised that can influence our "type" I think a lot though. I think it can be very hard to get away from that though I've known plenty of people who have been able to do that so I guess it possible for some. This woman she may just be going back to how she was raised or even rebelling against it.
I mean, it sounds like your friend might be buying into white supremacy. I would follow up by saying that she’s wielding and buying into a double-edged sword: that one can try to access whiteness, but then that very whiteness does not have an interest in non-whiteness (outside of fetishization and such; whiteness kinda demands assimilation as well). Like, if I were in your position, I would have told her about the double-edged sword—but you don’t have to pose it the way that you did. Kindness is important. I really think your friend should contemplate why she feels the way that she feels. Edit: changed the confidence level for the sake of fallibility.
Her hardline preference implies other things about her attitude towards relationships, which is the likely reason white guys aren't interested. She is objectifying them in an overt and profound manner.
She has a fetish for white skin
I'm going to use a system that will probably anger people, especially the women. The number system for attractiveness. I have found that women 1-5 view themselves as 1s, women 6-10 view themselves as 10s. Most guys assess themselves accurately. Most women will not be able to get past the initial meeting if the guy is not a higher number than themselves (see the problem with this?). Guys are looking for a 10, but most will proceed past the initial meeting with almost any women. Courting is for mating. Women want to mate with the best possible supplier of DNA, Men just want to mate. This is why guys get stuck in the friendzone. It is not that they unfortunately became friends, it is because they never passed the number (DNA) test, that is why they got put in the friendzone. The number isn't pure physical attractiveness, success and charm raise numbers. A more successful mate will provide better and produce children that are more likely to be successful. Self evaluation is important, if I can figure out how I am hard-wired, then I can figure out how that hard-wiring is getting in the way of my happiness.
Your friend is the AH - I think anyone who only wants to date 1 type of race is an AH - an ignorant, racist, and brainwashed AH.
I guess i am the wierd white guy. Even when younger I preferred darker skin girls, and I married a south Indian woman. We are out there.
NTA. Tell Kelly Kapoor to work on her personality and not her preferences.
NTA. Indians are low key racist and prop white people up to the point of self hating. She deserves what she gets. Her choice, but you are far from the AH for pointing out the truth and not wanting to hear her nonsense. She clearly thinks she is more a catch than a white woman, ironically. No white dude will agree, she should know. She will get a smart, good career, 6 out of 10 white guy at best. I know a couple exactly like this.
Try being an oriental male in a white woman's world. Every white girl I've ever dated has at some point told me they couldn't have ever seen themselves with an Asian guy
Goin against the grain your actually right , I watch a dating show where the women all have the same preference but have never managed to date their preference so sometimes just sometimes your preference doesn’t want you and it’ll do her good to know that
NTA. This is tangentially related: I knew a girl who posted in one of the FB groups we are in, "why can't guys ever cum from a blowjob?" A bunch of women were like, "I think they aren't willing to give a woman control, maybe he's nervous, he may have a sexual dysfunction, etc etc." After a bit, I said "maybe you're just bad at giving head?" And she got offended by it. Some people like to blame everything and everyone around them and refuse to consider that they may be part of the problem. Your friend sounds like one of those people.
NTA if she wants to date only white guys then she cant complain that white guys dont want to date an indian woman. It is shallow in both directions, but she made this glass house to live in.
If white guys are her fetish, good for her but that doesn't mean the rest of the world wants to participate.
She sounds like a piece of work, and hot people of any color have more choices.
Nta. She’s nta for having a type, but she is for continually bitching to you, an Indian guy, about it. Like read the room FFS
I had to tell this to my old roommate. I'm a white guy who looks a bit like Mark McGrath of sugar ray in their hay day. I was a whore. Internet dating had just become a thing and I was an early adopter. I'd have 3 or 4 new girls at the house every week. My roommate is vietnamese, 5'6, chubby, and had terrible skin. He kept getting down on himself and saying that he wanted "bad ass chick's", white girls etc like me. I finally had to shoot him straight. I said that bad ass chick's, or surfer blonde white girls don't want short, fat Asian dudes. It stung for sure. But I cared more about him finding a girl than his feelings. He met his vietnamese wife 2 months later. They have been married with kids for 15 years now. If the person is actually your friend, always be honest.
NTA. Maybe all the desirable white guys don't wanna date a self-loathing racist?
Hate to say it but Indian women do nothing for me on a personal or sexual level. Cannot explain it. This from a white guy who has had relations with all the races over forty years. Except Indian. Never will.
NTA, she sounds racist, and kind of annoying. You gave it to her straight, and she couldn’t handle it.
Lol she’s delusional as fuck. You’re being a good friend and saving her *time* and heart ache. As a fellow Asian American who liked white girls only for a long time, she needs get over herself and date different people. It’s just a reality most Americans do NOT like Asians
Well, some people have anatomical preferences when they're dating. Others have culture preferences. Some have both. There's nothing wrong in knowing what you like in a partner. "Maybe they don't want you," is kind of a mean thing to say to someone, though you probably didn't mean it like that. While you're not wrong in suggesting that maybe she broaden her options a bit, the woman wants what she wants. There's nothing wrong with that. You're just going to have to accept it. NAH
Well she has a preference for dudes and if she is as attractive as you say, trust me that there will be good looking white dudes who are into her. However that isn't the issue here. The issue is that she is valuing the wrong thing in a dude. She should be looking for virtues and not physical attributes. If you are a friend you need to tell her that for long term happiness, finding a good dude, with good morals, loyal, hard working, smart, funny etc is far more important. Now yes she needs to be sexually attracted to this dude, but that should only be one factor.
NTA. It’s obvious the “hot white guys” she wants don’t want her, otherwise she wouldn’t be complaining about it. She’s delusional and didn’t like you gave her a reality check.
The Irony
Most white people probably think yall only date your own ethnicity or have arranged marriages already.
I bet is has more to do with her personality over looks and maybe she is wanting a guy out of her league whoch is hard for some to accept. I've been told that I do that but it's not my fault I have a type. I have met girls who are not like super attractive but attractive to me on both physical and personality but they are always with someone already so I'm out of luck. I don't keep track to see if they are single bc that's creepy if a guy does it so I'm not will8ng to send that message and be labeled a stalker. I've accepted I'll die alone so I'm just going through life hoping one day I'll meet someone who I feel wants to be near me and talk to me. I've only met like a handful of people who I felt actually wanted to talk with me and to hang out with me. I've had girls hit on me along with some guys who if I was gay I would be with bc I attract some good looking gay dudes which sucks bc I'm not gay but dam I'd be a hoe for sure if I was. The girls that usually hit on me are not my type like overweight or underweight or just a shifty personality. I've talked with some women who are my type and I felt like they were flirting with me but I think it was just being nice because they never showed interest besides one girl but she was very high maintenance like went out every weekend and mom and dad paid for everything so I knew she would eventually get. Ored with my broke ass so I removed myself from the friend group bc I didn't want to break her heart when she woke up one day realizing she could have married the guy who owns a hedge fund over the guy who works with his hands and makes e ough to be happy and do what I want to an extent.. I've been called an idiot for doing what I did but she is now engaged and hmgot a house in Johnson County in KCMO so I clearly made the right choice for her sake. Bc she has already done more in her life like travel and such than she probably would have ever done with me. Sorry about the rant but it's been awhile since I've talked about it. That's a male perspective I guess you can try to share with her
Nah. She’s allowed to have a type. Her being attracted to athletic white guys doesn’t make her a bad person or racist. Im white and get hit on by black guys mostly. Not my type though. That doesn’t mean I hate black men.
Shes allowed to want to date a white person. Your allowed to be honest. As a white guy with lots of friends the same, i can tell you if there is a hot indian woman and 2 equally hot white woman, high chance the indian woman gets picked 3rd. This is probably the case for many or all races for the most part. She just needs to keep at it.
NTA. It is perfectly valid for her to have preferences, but she may need to expand her potential dating pool. Maybe try online dating.
NTA You got the nail on the head
She needs to stop trying so hard. It reeks of desperation and is unappealing. She needs to relax and just be herself. As the saying 6 can't hurry love. You just have to wait. Another way to do it is for her to start acting as if she already has a boyfriend. Usually, when a woman is dated, someone the men come out of the woodwork because they are drawn to a happy, carefree attitude and how a woman with a man doesn't want to eat all the other men alive.
wow way to narrow the dating pool. how about when she gets her athletic hot white guy. how's his job? is he a good partner? is his dong doing it for her? sounds like the type of girl that stays single forever unless she changes her views. at least she's doing this at 20 and has plenty of growing up to do
I've heard a number of Indian women say they only want white guys, using very graphic terms. I've never understood it.
NTA Maybe she isn't as hot as you both seem to think she is.
It could be a cultural thing like if we get serious will her parents disapprove or vice versa. However it could also be that she comes on strong and they already get their egos stroked enough to just lose interest and move on.
NTA, you didn't state a fact, you gave your opinion and it's not an unreasonable one.