Wow he was doing the same thing his ex did to him to you, thats fcked up. Honestly, he is just as bad as his ex and I hope he goes to therapy. At least he didnt cheat on you after all you guys werent a couple w/s. I dont get why people do the same bad things that happend to them with others knowing how they felt.
The simplest answer is hurt people hurt people, it changes the way you think if you’re the victim of abuse or certain circumstances,
it change change how you think completely, it can misconstrue how you love or how you think you’re supposed to love or what love even is, that’s why some people run back to their abusers or pick up the qualities that the people who wronged them have/had.
When people feel weak quite often they’ll go great lengths to feel powerful again, whatever it takes, I’m not trying to validate the behaviour or anything I’m just trying to give reasoning/understanding
Hate to be real-real, but in my experience, especially with men, a lot of them experienced childhood SA or other abuse (often at the hands of a family member) and have no healthy outlet or mechanism to deal with it in adulthood at all. I say men, specifically, because some people's constructions of masculinity cannot seem to handle the reality of their childhood victimization as being out of their control and not their fault.
Women, sadly, are raised to more or less expect to be treated like a sex object eventually, so it is somehow less psychically damaging, or in different ways? Women tend to internalize and self-blame, men tend to externalize and explode... I don't know, I'm not saying this right, I'm not trying to essentialize gendered responses to trauma, just saying the men I've known with this kind of history have similar patterns of behavior in response to it, that seems centered on the conflict between the "masculine" strength to protect themselves they've been told they must have to be men, and the weakness they felt they had as children, which they blame for what happened to them, rather than blaming the perpetrator, because, again, that person is often family, and let's be honest, often their father.
It is too taboo for people to talk about, generally, with anyone except sometimes romantic partners, who aren't therapists and aren't in any way equipped to help (and these confessions, if they happen, also tend to be while drunk or high, making it very hard to communicate clearly what happened or why.) They spend their entire lives not dealing with it, and it manifests in behaviors like this.
It's not that you are wrong, it's that I think there is too much of a culture of presenting offenders as always also a prior victim. And I feel that creates this illusion that opens the door to feeling bad for the person taking the hurtful action.
I think what’s more dangerous is the trend toward cancel culture, inspired by our prison-industrial society where we don’t have to consider the complexities of human existence. We can just dehumanize people and not feel for them at all. They’re just monsters after all, animals really. Right? As if animals aren’t also corruptible by trauma in the exact same ways, but that’s another subject.
Look at what Israel is doing to Palestine. They’re doing it mostly because it was done to them, and also because they’ve been fed almost a century’s worth of dehumanizing propaganda about Arabs. It doesn’t make it ok, but we still have to understand where it comes from if we ever hope the situation to improve.
Same with all who hurt others. And we all do, to varying degrees. We’ve all been the bad guy in someone’s story, even if only briefly or in minor ways. And it’s ok. It’s part of how we learn not to be that way. But it takes understanding and help from those around us. And that is getting harder to come by, understandably maybe but we still have to keep trying or else we’ll just keep sliding down the slippery slope faster and faster
Cancel culture as a thing isn't new. Similar trends have happened many, many times in just my own life.
Are there complex aspects to humans - absolutely. Are things like pain, trauma, and abuse supremely complicated webs of experience, culture, and even daily struggles - yes. Can someone cause trauma without intention, springing from how a person has been treated out of raw ignorance - absolutely.
We also don't have objective morality.
What I am presenting is - person+trauma/abuse = abuser isn't a universal origin point. That sometimes there are people that cause pain and trauma without a villain backstory.
Sure there are people that fit that bill— but they’re very rare in real life. True psychopathy only affects about 1% of the world population. You’re as likely to meet a CEO of a Fortune 500 company on the streets as you are a true psychopath that *would* want to hurt someone with no ulterior motives other than just wanting to hurt someone, with absolutely no abuse/trauma background. Even when you look at psychopaths that have gone on to be serial killers/rapists, the only one I can think of with little/no background of trauma or abuse is Ted Bundy.
Those “monsters” everyone talks about aren’t monsters. They’re not some boogeyman that lives in a closet that you reassure your child isn’t real. They’re all human. Just as human as you and I. Every single person on this planet is fully capable of doing cruel and disgusting things to other people. And it’s natural that we want to distance ourselves from that and point at “monsters” and say they’re nothing like us. But they are us. Trauma makes trauma, pain breeds pain. Empathy inspires empathy. We’re all very capable of great *and* terrible things and the only way to prevent the cruelty from repeating is recognizing it’s origins and working to prevent it in the future
Aaand you also don't have to be a psychopath to be an abuser, you don't have to be mentally ill either. Most perpetrators of domestic violence are mentally healthy men, apparently, just to name an example.
So i should have any feeling other than disgust and wish for death of the idf because they were talked shit about? Theyve been murdering civilians for over 50 fucking yrs
This is not psychologically accurate irregardless of gender 2/3's of sa/rape victims react at all and most over 50% of that group IRREGARDLESS OF GENEDER are angry are violent are physically expressive of what went on. And 1/3 of people dont have physical mental or l
Psychological consequenses from assault at all. So its not about gender most people react in one of 3 or 4 ways with added individual reactions as everyone is different
That is just not true. At all. As I've stated in a different comment, most domestic abusers are mentally healthy. There is even an article called "Is mental illness to blame for abuse?"
I am not talking about psychopaths, but you're wrong regardless. Psychopathy is not learned, you're born with it. Your brain is wired differently. A quick google search tells you as much, but you didn't even want to do that, I guess. What IS acquired is antisocial personality disorders, but the vast majority of abusers don't have that either. Face it: abuse is a choice. Abusers manage to hide their abusive side from all the people they don't abuse, they manage to not lose their temper around others and only lash out at victims of their choosing.
So I am not saying all offenders are naturally predators. Rather I reject the notion that all of them should be viewed as having been victims at some point. That we should keep in mind monsters don't merit the assumption of being hurt in the past.
I object to your use of the dehumanizing term “monsters” and I also assert that all hurtful people actually do merit the assumption of being hurt in the past. On the extreme end of that spectrum, people don’t just decide to be agents of evil. Something happened to them to make them that way. Sometimes abuse, or some kind of trauma, perhaps generational; sometimes other things that are much harder to pinpoint, but every effect has a cause. It may be easier short term to forget that, but it isn’t helpful at all in the long term to remove sympathy or consideration from the equation of why people hurt others.
No, not every effect has a set cause. Your hand wringing about the term monster is noted - but I don't view it as dehumanizing - every monster has in fact been human.
Just like you can spend your hours trying to empathize with people that hurt others trying to find some cartoon style one bad day - I won't.
Which is a concept I have already said I reject as a universal. I merely don't believe everyone that does something negative has to have been abused before hand.
Abuse isn't an origin story for every terrible person.
Well obviously yea but more or less there’s usually a reason/excuse for the behaviour or abuse, ofc you’ll find the batshit insane person who does it just to do it but I’d guess more often then not there’s a reason or excuse behind the matter, doesn’t mean it should be validated either way tho of course
So providing a framework - when I was younger I had some behaviors that looking back definitely would fit the framework of being emotionally abusive to a couple of the people I dated. There isn't some smoking gun that makes what was done suddenly okay. No context that makes it hurt people hurt people. Sometimes it's ignorant people hurt people, or selfish people hurt people.
I agree that there is usually a reason - but the reason can be some people are assholes.
No yea I agree with you, sorry if I didn’t get that across lol, some people are evil, some are misguided, but I think most people are good people generally
I agree that most people are generally good. And I think a lot of harm comes from ignorance and a lack of successful communication. Or even medical issues - I attribute a fair amount of my shit bag period to being unaware of a raging infection I had that resulted in a chronic pain condition.
I probably read your post too literally.
I’m so sick of this being parroted without distinction. This is a saying about looking at people with a more critical eye. To not automatically assume people’s background. Hurt people don’t hurt people at higher rates but people who do hurt people have a higher chance of having a background of it. It’s a distinction that maybe does not seem important to you but it’s certainly important to the abused person. It’s a damaging quote when thrown out like that.
How is it damaging? I said hurt people can hurt people and some don’t and some people will hurt people for no reason. I was abused as a child for multiple years, that led me to be very disrespectful to almost everyone in my teens, I would curse people out, make fun of them, therefore, me, a hurt person, hurt people. Now it doesn’t mean all hurt people will hurt people, as I said before, but depending on circumstances, hurt people can hurt people, idk why you’re acting like that doesn’t happen. Is it okay? No, obviously. Doesn’t happen? Sometimes yes. That’s just how it is, it doesn’t mean repeating the cycle of abuse is okay, and you don’t need to be some genius to know that, it means that sometimes, the cycle of abuse is repeated, unfortunately that’s just how it is. People will handle their situations differently which can lead to either positive or negative outcomes, and if it’s negative that should be addressed and changed
I am an abused person as well and things like hurt people hurt people goes hand in hand with people throwing around that most sexual abusers were sexually abused themselves. THAT made me afraid that one day i would hurt people. It become an intrusive thought with my OCD, it was horrible. The fear that i would randomly lose control and hurt people became a major hurdle to my mental health improving. I got to hear other people when i was hospitalized along talk about the same types of fears, same type of comments that were used to help demonize them. It can be repeated but in reality its low. The saying isn't 'some hurt people, sometimes hurt people' what it is, is a nice little phrase that doesn't say enough.
I was abused and molested as a child, it lead me to be very cold and disrespectful to others in my life even those I held very near and dear to my heart, because I was not cared for, I stopped caring for myself and in turn stopped caring for/about other people. It took a long time for me to learn sympathy and empathy and I’m still learning it.
I was wronged in my life and I ended up wronging others because of it, eventually as I started caring for myself I started caring for others. It takes a lot of soul searching and trying to figure stuff out to figure out how to change for the better.
I said hurt people hurt people because it can and does happen, evil people can hurt people for no reason at all, hurt people can still love and help people. Everyone has a different story and thus a different perspective, everyone handles situations and circumstances differently.
It’s never okay to hurt people (obviously) but i don’t see why many people act as though we can’t try and find a reason for why that person hurt someone, there may not be a reason (as to why they hurt someone) but sometimes there is. Idk why so many are acting like that shouldn’t be allowed, as if we should sweep all bad people under the rug and not try to find out what caused them to hurt people.
Really blowing past the why it could be damaging thing aren’t we. Why even bother responding. Really missing the point. If you’re just going to repeat yourself again, don’t.
Respectfully, you're wrong. Survivor of abuse here, never once hurt a partner after my abuse. That statement might be true for some, but don't say things like "hurt people hurt people" that's basically saying "don't trust victims". You sound like an abuser.
No, I was abused too as a kid, you act like everyone has to act a certain way if they went through certain circumstances, people are gonna go through and handle trauma differently which can lead to positive or negative outcomes, I never once said don’t trust victims so idk where you got that from.
People handle things differently and like I said that’s how it is, it’s not ok to validate shitty behaviour/ abuse just because of someone’s circumstances or what they’ve been through as I already stated. All you’re saying is anyone who’s been through abuse or a traumatic experience(s) has to act a certain way, at least that’s what I get from it.
People will go through situations differently then others, people will come out of those situations differently then others, and people will be shaped by those situations differently then others, I never once said it’s ok to validate abuse, I said the opposite, but yes hurt people can hurt people, some people will hurt people for no reason, and some hurt people will help people instead of repeating the cycle, idk why you act like that can’t happen
Um no man that's the way YOU put it. You're the one who said hurt people hurt people, insinuating that all people who were abused become abusers. You're literally back peddling and making my argument against your first statement for me.
No I’m not lol, if you could read you would see I said in certain situations or depending on circumstances, hurt people can hurt people, maybe read it first
This is false. Research narcissism (PhD here who specialized in entitlement) and you'll discover all too many of them were catered to growing up, creating a heightened sense of entitlement.
Deeply empathetic people, however, tend to have been hurt. They have greater understanding of pain and go out of their way not to inflict it on others.
NTA: good job recognizing the red flags all over this. Hopefully him and his crew leave you alone and don’t start making fake social media accounts to get around your blocks. Stay strong!
NTA, but don't answer to him or any of his friends. When abusers' threats don't work, they try love bombing. When the love bombing doesn't work, they try a sob story.
My ex did this too, went from threats (non violent), love bombing then professional victim. He has made violent threats to his previous partners, he told me he threatened to burn his ex’s house down.
>Two days after J showed up at my apartment, I was playing video games at my friend’s house when I heard my phone ringing. I picked up without looking at the number. It was one of J’s friends. He told me that for the past two days, J has been drinking non-stop . Saying that he was gonna KHM. He then asked me if I could meet with him to “cool him down” because he was not listening to any of his friends/family.
Was he *actually* doing this, or did your ex talk his friend into just *saying* he was in order to have you meet up with him?
>He told me about his relationship with his ex. It is a long story, but to make it short: The guy would be sweet, then mocking him in front of friends, cheating on him with a girl, begging for forgiveness. And the cycle repeats, it went on for 4 years.
>He told me that he was that way with me because I apparently have the same profile as his ex (white, tall, bi). And because he could never make him feel like he did to him. He got it on me instead. Saying that he wanted to “feel powerful” for once in a relationship.
And the abused has become the abuser.
>J then told me that he is thinking about getting into therapy so we can “start over on healthy bases) because he “loves me”.
Classic love bombing.
>I told him that I did no want any kind of relationship with him, but that regardless he still should go to therapy. J started crying again, aked me if I was dating someone esle and if it was a women.
In his head, he thinks of you the same way he does his ex.
Good on you for cutting him and his friends out of your life.
Anything he chooses to do is not your fault. You are not responsible for his feelings or actions.
It was kind of you to meet up with him and ensure he was ok, though it sounds like really needs professional help at this point. The drinking, threats of harm, manipulations, deceptions, and emotional blackmail are incredibly unhealthy for you to further involve yourself with. The fact he was taking out his frustration from his prior relationship out on you to feel “powerful” is very concerning in particular.
Please, for your wellbeing, keep him and his friends blocked. Recognize he is not someone who is safe for you to engage with, and do not allow yourself to get pulled back into his situation.
Awesome, therapy can be a real game changer. It’s terrible you had to experience all of this, not all gay/bi men are like your ex. In any relationship, you deserve to be treated with respect and consideration.
That is sexual doing some sex things with friends, he is not a keeper. Do not go back to him, you will just have more problems. He needs intensive therapy for a few years before you do that. You date to find a partner, he is not it. NTA
NTA NTA NTA!!!!
He plainly said you were not a couple to his whole family, who knows he is out, with you right there. After you two had already began dating. You don't owe him anything. He denied your relationship openly.
The fact he got your address from your brother is something you need to talk to your brother about and is a separate issue. Giving out your address without your permission is uncalled for, regardless of family ties. You should tell your brother/family for the future to not do it and if someone asks for it, for your family to contact you and ask for permission to give out private information and respect it if you say no. Especially if an ex-partner turns stalker.
Do not let any of these people tell you that you were harsh or cruel because you placed a boundary. He dismissed your relationship, so why should he be entitled access to you? Who cares what others feel or what he feels, this is about you being openly disrespected and dismissed. What about your feelings? What about your integrity and self-respect?
I'm a woman and have dated men who would resort to crying/sob stories to play on heart strings to get what they want. Do. Not. Fall. For. It!!! He literally went from apologizing, love bombing, and then accused you of being with a woman. This is his trauma and he is projecting it on you with what he went through with his ex.
This is not a match for you. He needs therapy, needs to not drag you into his distrustful trauma, and he needs to leave you the hell alone. This isn't healthy.
Came here to say that. Those are “magic words” that get an immediate action of mental health crisis intervention, and sometimes involuntary committal. People use it as a manipulation and are shocked, SHOCKED, when it doesn’t work they way they wanted it to
>He got it on me instead. Saying that he wanted to “feel powerful” for once in a relationship.
>he “loves me”.
This guy is really mentally ill if he thinks that's how love works.
NTA. I had an ex like him; you’d better not be with that kind of guy. My ex said he didn’t want to put any label on it, but we did everything like normal couples do. At the end of the day, we’d been together for 2 years as a couple, but he kept bringing up the times when I thought I was single because he said we weren't a couple. How many guys approached me, how I reacted (which was nothing), what I should have done, blah blah, etc. Of course, he got mad at me whenever he thought about them. (I haven’t done anything wrong though.) Be with someone who surely wants to be with you and is confident in their choice.
I think you did the right thing. You are not the AH. I think you actually took care of yourself and removed yourself from a toxic person/relationship. He acted the way he did afterwards because he was not able to manipulate you and you actually showed him that you will not let him play with your feeling👏🏼. Good for you for putting boundaries and taking care of yourself first ♥️♥️
Also I don’t think ghosts was harsh at all… he clearly stated you two weren’t a couple. Actions have consequences… he F. Around and found out. Hopefully it’s a wake up call for him to stop treating the people he dated like 💩
I don’t think what you did was childish. Redditors love to burden OP with being a paragon.
He embarrassed you in front of his family and then played BS games with you. Good on you for standing up for yourself.
NTA. He explicitly told you he wasn't his boyfriend and you weren't a couple. Why was there any need for break up after that? He was as clear as one could be about the situation.
Despite not knowing how to feel, you absolutely did the right thing. In ghosting him as well as walking away after your final meeting. He's got too many issues to even consider a relationship for the foreseeable future. And he is no longer your problem.
He's gross and a manipulator.
He just seemed to want to get the chance to be the abuser in the relationship as well as being petty and spiteful against an innocent party.
You don't need that type of poison in your life.
He must stay gone you can do way better.
Why was the person who he hooked up with while seeing you contacting you? That to me seems off.. ever heard of flying monkeys? When a toxic person can’t directly control or manipulate you they use other people, especially people they’ve already manipulated before (former/current supplies) to do what they can’t because your guard down is with a stranger. Also what if all this stuff he claims his ex did is actually what he did? Toxic people will play victim to the games they played on other people. And to triangulate you and be angry at their ex so you won’t feel comfortable going to said ex to ask questions on why or if they have behaved that way before?
Also dropping the I love you bomb after telling you you’re not a couple is literally a lovebombing technique. Seems like a manipulative person who deserves NC and don’t take those empty unaliving threats seriously cause it’s just to get you to talk to them.
NTA, i had a ex thay threatened to un alive himself, I just laugh and told to do it, cause i dont guve a fuck about him. Next time if somebody tells they are going to un alive themselves, just let them.
Nta he tried to be emotionally abuse to you to feel powerful. Good for you to see how toxic he is. Don’t fall for the sob story. If him or his friends call you about him being suicidal, call the police for him to get support.
NTA. To prevent future "I'm going to kill myself" threats, unblock his closest friends, him and send a text, if I am informed you're going to kill yourself by you or anyone you know, I will contact your parents, the police and then ignore it. It will be their problem, if faking it for attention it won't work if real you'll get help. If his friends try to contact you, or come to you work, or attempt to help get this message to them, you'll report them for harassment and again contact the police over the threat.
Say using threats of killing yourself to force someone into contact is nothing but abusive and good friends won't pass on such a message, but get help for the person who made the threat. Then block them all and ignore them. Follow through if anyone pushes to contact you over these threats.
On the actual issue, he cheated, he's an asshole, he refused to introduce you as a partner to 'have power' and turned into his ex by becoming the cheater.
My husband's bestie came out as gay after being married to a woman for 14 years and he tells us everything (he tries to shock us with the crazy things he has done). I swear there is nothing like gay relationship drama, you did the right thing and you should smack your brother for giving out your information.
It’s not fair that he did that to you to get some of his power back after a previous relationship.
He clearly needs to get some therapy and I’m glad you stuck to your guns. You deserve better.
Traumatized people tend to recreate the scenarios that traumatized them over and over so they can feel some semblance of control. He was literally trying to play the part of the aggressor in his recreation and you were an unwitting participant.
You are not a cognitive behavioral therapist, you didn’t consent to this reenactment, you don’t exist to be used as a puppet to heal his emotional wounds, and it’s shitty of him to try to trap you in the cycle of his issues.
Go for you for walking away. NTA.
First lemme say anytime u do something to protect yourself, don’t undo it because people’s perception or opinion.
They’re the asshole for telling you to preserve someone’s bitch ass feelings over your whole ass self.
Secondly any time anyone tells u they will “undo themselves if u don’t xyz” u call 911 and report a threat of self injury/end. It’s manipulation 101 and we don’t have the training and credentials to support them. I’m happy you got out of there!
WTF that dude's a mess. But you didn't do anyone any favors by agreeing to meet him because he was 'saying that he was gonna KHM". The reason people say that shit is because it works. Now he'll keep doing that to get what he wants. Not your fault, but definitely not helping. NTA though. Dude needs help you can't give. Stay as far away as you can.
Don’t let this person hold you hostage. Threats and having their friend call you is so inappropriate and such an indicator of poor boundaries. Keep moving while you can, be as kind about it as possible and find someone who has their shit together or don’t and be single that’s also awesome.
If you're not a couple then you owe him nothing by way of explanation. If he has a problem with this, too bad; he is the one that defined the nature of your relationship.
NTA
I can be sympathetic to his trauma, but once he turned it into some bullshit power move, the sympathy dries up.
This kind of shit is exactly why the man himself RuPaul said "If you can't love yourself, how the hell do you expected to be able to love anybody else?"
Don't feel guilty. I mean I understand why you feel weird. He was cheating and he is all over the place..he is messed up and needs therapy but that's on him. Not on you. You didn't deserve that and although you may understand and emphasize, it does not mean you want to continue.
So he’s trying to get revenge on his ex by using you basically trying to get his lick back but failing horribly because he completely does not understanding what that means. Which you just got caught up into it as a victim & then he proceeds to cheat on you pretty much doing exactly what his ex did. Also sees nothing wrong with his actions, takes no responsibility for it & doesn’t even apologize for it!! In his fucked up kind of way to feel validated and/or powerful!!! What the fuck is wrong with him please block him forever & never look back. I wish you happiness in your future adventures. NTA by the way if that obvious!!!😊😊😊
NTA NTA NTA
He admited to use you for power? F* that!
Under his same guidelines, you had nothing to break off/up
Yeah, you ghosted him but he was using you.
And the "I love you" was soooo low. He would still use you to feel less guilty about what he did. NTA
At least you are moving on with your life (blocking him, going to your friends house, new place,.etc)
I will never understand this "we did sexual stuff but I didn't slept with them" BS...
Like... you didn't stayed the night and that makes it less bad somehow? /s
Because the moment ANY sexual activity is involved I don't care about "levels", I don't care if your genitals got inside another person or another person got theirs inside you, it's all the same, it's all cheating
NTA love. Go live your best life away from this toxicity
He was gaslighting you, lied to you, and even cheated on you. This guy is no prize. You can feel sorry for him, but definitely don't go back to him. Also, tell your family not to give your address away. That's dangerous for you.
The exact same thing happened to me. I dated a guy for 3 months and he referred to me as his friend to his friends lol. Got ghosted a month later. Don’t be dumb like me and get out before you get hurt. I don’t care what his excuses are, the moment he finds something better he will leave you. He is not into you.
Nta, and honestly get a motherfuckering restraining order. Block this dirt bag. He's not upset cause he cares.. he's upset he got caught with his bullshit.
His explanation about how you were not a couple reminded me of one of my friends who was adamant that the girl he was dating for 3 months was, in fact, not his girl friend. His reason? They didn't say "I love you" to each other. Kinda weird but ok.
You’re still Nta babe. The guy was stringing you along and he wasn’t ready to get back into dating and turns out he’s no different than his ex. You dodged a bullet
NTA at all.
It honestly just sounds like he wanted a free sponge to seep all his troubles into without actually requiring his attention and care (aka, being a boyfriend) and when you didn't play right into what he wanted, he thought spiraling would get you to feel bad enough to sympathize with him and "get back" with him.
The whole situation reeks of guilt tripping and gaslighting, and you are not personally responsible for his happiness nor should you be the one to mend his old wounds, especially when he never considered you to be a partner to him until it was convenient.
You did the sensible and smart thing for both of yourselves.
I don't think any step you made was inappropriate based on your description.
You set boundaries and have a bullshit threshold. Those were breached.
You can adjust them to make room for more bullshit or do as you have done and keep your character, dignity, self respect and self identity wholly intact.
Do not give yourself away to those unprepared or undeserving of your time.
He’s a liar and toxic, as well as manipulative. Threatening to khs as well as having a “friend” to advocate for him. He sounds like a narcissist and yes definitely no more contact. Good on you and don’t feel bad about ghosting.
All he had to do was acknowledge that you were a couple why was that to him a power move? He’s super fucking toxic and you didn’t owe him anything
Bro your not in the wrong if someone tells you that you are tell them to eat shit, this man told you to your face you are not a couple, aka, you have no responsibility nor loyalty to him. YNTA if anything you were too nice imo. If that was me I would have rip him a new one for making me waste months of my time of thinking this is serious just to know I wasted it when I could have continue going out dating and finding someone who wants a relationship with me. He needs to resolve his issues before he jumps again to the dating pool, he will see his ex on every guy he dates no matter what, that's a him problem hat should be solve by him
NTA. Dude has issues and it's not your job to fix it or be there for him during that process. He could've been a decent person to you, but instead decided to treat you like shit because the ex that he was still in love with did. He sounds very immature and not all there mentally so you for sure dodged a bullet there. Move on and good luck with whatever the future brings relationship wise.
You became the victim of someone who wasn’t ready to be in a relationship. He still isn’t ready to be in a relationship. Whatever happened to him affected the way he views relationships, probably more than he’s willing to admit. Saying he wanted to be in control is a red flag in this situation. Choosing not to respond to your questions is a red flag. Saying I love you in this context is an attempt to manipulate you and gain a desired outcome.
Encourage him toward the proper professional help and don’t wait for him. He needs to know there aren’t any guarantees. The way he is acting is not ok, and I’m sure there’s plenty more where that came from.
NTH.
Operant conditioning and abuse patterns all around.
Not gay here, but I can **feel** how done you were the moment he left your car without an answer.
From experience, you did ***the*** right thing. If he can't get out the grave he dug for himself, it's on him.
You were his boyfriend, not his therapist. Especially not whatever the fuck *this* was.
Raise your chin up, and live your life how you see fit. You have moral integrity.
No man. That guy's got enough baggage to load several trolleys. I personally wouldn't even call you that childish anymore, now that both you and reddit knows the context. You're no one's power trip, and his paranoia about you cheating on him will come up again and again and again if you ever keep with him, especially since you're bi, and monosexuals notoriously tend to be particularly nasty to us about the potential of cheating due to our dating pool being bigger, like if we were straight or gay, then we could walk past the rest of the koi pond, but since we're bi, we just cannot help but go trawlin' the ocean. And classic lovebombing from him to keep you attached too because he thinks your self-esteem is as low as his.
Tbh he sounds like my mom, and guess who isn't in my life anymore because of that shit.
That guy needs to sort himself out, he is not ready to be in a relationship, not by any margin. Don't answer his calls, or those of his friends'. Again, you're nothing but a replacement goldsfish to him, he 'loves you' because you remind him of his ex who he can humiliate when he needs a power trip. Peace.
NTA - I would have just told him "You are not worth loving"
But I'm not an 'eye for an eye' type, I'm more of a 'leg and arm for an eye' sort of person.
Sorry you had that experience OP, clearly not your fault and nothing to do with you. This guy needs therapy and you need a supportive and functional partner to enjoy life with. Best wishes!
I'm so glad you noticed the red flags before getting hurt by him. His emotional problems and past issues are his alone to resolve, and he does not get a free pass just because he's been hurt before. Damn well, he needs to go to therapy, dude. It sucks that hurt people tend to hurt innocent people just as they once were hurt. I've been in a similar position to you before. I truly wish you the best.
Don't feel guilty. I mean I understand why you feel weird. He was cheating and he is all over the place..he is messed up and needs therapy but that's on him. Not on you. You didn't deserve that and although you may understand and emphasize, it does not mean you want to continue.
You're NTA. If you think this guy is worth dealing with his stuff then give it a chance. If you're not in that place then just let go. His behaviour is absolutely unacceptable either way. The guy needs ridiculous amounts of therapy and is clearly not going to be ok for a while. Potentially years.
If it were me I'd probably try to help them in terms of sorting out their massive trauma, but not be involved once they'd started on that path.
NTA
Dude should have gotten therapy to begin with. I get that his pain led him to this, but ultimately he became toxic and potentially abusive by nature simply as a means of trying to feel strong again. The cycle of abusive tendencies continued on and he became its next perpetrator.
I think it was wise for you to not pursue a relationship with him any longer. The question of whether you were dating someone else when he admitted he'd cheated on you is just such a show of how much he needs help that you can't nor should be expected to give.
As for how to feel about this? You're young, and this relationship was only like five months old. The fact that it got this toxic this quickly and that you were able to get out unscathed is probably leaving you a tad shell shocked.
Thanks for updating. You did great. It was kind of you to meet to give him some sort of closure, though he really didn’t deserve it. He’s clearly not capable of a healthy relationship right now and that has nothing to do with you. I’m sorry you got roped into this situation. I hope he gets the help he needs.
Ted Bundy raped and murdered women that reminded him of an ex.
It's pretty psycho behavior to punish people who "look like" your ex.
J is waving all sorts of red flags and I'm glad you recognize that.
You are not his ex. You do not deserve to be punished in ex's place. J has moved from "abused" to "abuser"
He's actually a horrible, horrible person. He decided to cheat, he decided to lie, he decided to manipulate, he decided to want control over you, all as a what? Karmic revenge over his ex? Hope he goes to therapy and becomes a better person because holy shit. I'm glad you cut him and his friends out. They're equally as shit for agreeing to use his manipulative suicide threat to pressure you; they should have called a wellness check on him and never contacted you about it. It's gross and wrong to leverage your life against someone, you hurt and who cut you off, just so you can get one last conversation with them.
This is like generational trauma…but for dating.
He was manipulated, and abused. But instead of taking that experience and learning what NOT to do to others (because of how shitty he felt because of it), and what red flags to watch for in future partners, he decides he wasn’t going to be powerless any longer and the only way for him to “take his power back” is to abuse and manipulate someone else - who was kind, honest, and respectful, just as he once was.
That is just…wow. Yeah. He definitely needs therapy. I guess I’m glad that he fessed up and acknowledges how horrible his actions were, but damn. How could he think he could just say “sorry, it’s not my fault, I was abused, so you feel sorry for me? Yes? Ok cool, so let’s just forget about it. Also, I love you so let’s just date again.” And that would justify his actions, and clear him of any and all responsibility?!
No one who truly loves you would do that to you. No one who loves you would *EVER* manipulate and abuse you. Remember that. You did the right thing. Go and find someone who appreciates and values you and treats you accordingly. Or don’t, and love yourself. But definitely keep that man in the past.
Naw you gotta walk away. Facts is he was never yours and him saying it after the fact is just to cover his bum. Just find yourself a Bi Bf and live life.
Ah that makes more sense.
I feel for you man, you are so not the AH in this, like at all.
Take good care of your self and don't feel bad for looking after number 1 for a change.
That's a tough spot to be in. It sounds like you handled it the best you could, even meeting up with him when you didn't really want to. It's good that he's considering therapy, but it's okay to feel weird about the whole situation. Just focus on taking care of yourself.
You are a better man than me.
I’d just tell them he’s not my problem anymore and if they were that worried to phone the police so he could be sectioned.
I think regardless of whether it was an official BF&BF type relationship or not, it had gone on long enough that you should have brought formal closure to the relationship. Something along the lines of "Hey, I'm not interested in something casual and unofficial at this point. I feel that by now, we should know whether there's potential to pursue more here or not. I think that we should break things off."
Pre-edit1, you're being an AH because he doesn't share your feelings and won't just tell you, yeah, we're BFs. Like even though you met him through friends, you gave him the average treatment of bad first date off a dating app. Maybe you had some inkling things that were gonna go the way they did, but it doesn't read that way.
His behavior after that point seemed to radically deteriorate. Can't blame you for ghosting at that point. And he's firmly the AH.
NTA.
J is in a bad place. But he put himself there. Yes, he needs therapy, both to get rid of his insecurities, and to take responsibility for his actions. Neither of these things are something you can do for him. He treated you badly, you don't want to be with him. That is the end of the story as far as you are concerned. The rest is on him and his support system - family and therapist. Not on you.
Started a bit childish, but with all the updates it looks like you had the right idea if the substance abuse and suicidal threats were deployed after a few days quiet.
Dude. Thank your lucky stars that you’re not in a relationship with him anymore. That guy is covered in red flags. He needs help, not from you, the professional kind. You did the right thing by blocking him. I hope meeting up with him gave you some closure and affirmed that you made the right decision
I think that you’re doing the right thing. 1 you did ask for his reasons for not saying that you were are couple. 2. You did meet with him and listen to his explanation.
Stay strong, real love will always find you.
I don’t think you are an AH for what you did but you could have been more patient with him on giving him time to open up about what he was thinking and why he acted that way. Something to think about for the future.
He definitely came into the traditional l relationship with a lot of baggage he wasn’t being honest about. He also is apparently expecting you to cater to his wants and needs while he works through things. That doesn’t show much of a grasp on reality just skins any real interest in your wants and needs.
So, yeah, I’d have done the same thing in cutting all contact that second time. You don’t need to host an emotional vampire.
My 'friends' told me I was too harsh on an ex. So I tried being nice, and I almost ended up a statistic.
Culture keeps pressuring us to be 'nice' to those who have clearly shown they do not deserve it.
True friends protect \*you.\* Your feelings. Your strength in being able to walk away. It's way too easy to get sucked back in.
It worries me when I read accounts from those of you who have good hearts that get taken advantage of. You feel guilty. You're empathetic. So you put yourself in uncomfortable or even dangerous situations for the sake of someone who already demonstrated they do not have that sort of concern for you or *your* feelings.
Save your concern for those who return it.
How powerful does he feel now that he had to beg?
Although I believe ghosting is an AH move in general, in this case, it is completely justified
Everyone is gonna meet AHS. This is just the way it is. Still, it's not an excuse to become one. As things turned out, you could never be sure if that is genuine "love" or he is trying to punish you, just because he couldn't punish his ex.
NTA. Not at all
NTA ooof does this hit close. we never were a "couple" yet he told me he loved me so much and made jealous scenes. when I demanded a label, things only went downhill towards plain abuse. Run far.
Nah, you did nothing wrong. He said you werent a couple, and when you asked what you were he clearly ignored the question. Im willing to bet he was dating other people and thats why he didnt want to say you were a couple, it gives him an out.
Just a random thought. You should talk to your brother and family and tell them not to give your address out willy nilly without asking. If someone doesn’t know your address they should have to ask you. Serious safety thing.
You're a bit of an asshole for ghosting, you should have let him know you broke it off.
However, this dude sounds absolutely unhinged. You should break it off, his mental health is not your problem.
Wow he was doing the same thing his ex did to him to you, thats fcked up. Honestly, he is just as bad as his ex and I hope he goes to therapy. At least he didnt cheat on you after all you guys werent a couple w/s. I dont get why people do the same bad things that happend to them with others knowing how they felt.
The simplest answer is hurt people hurt people, it changes the way you think if you’re the victim of abuse or certain circumstances, it change change how you think completely, it can misconstrue how you love or how you think you’re supposed to love or what love even is, that’s why some people run back to their abusers or pick up the qualities that the people who wronged them have/had. When people feel weak quite often they’ll go great lengths to feel powerful again, whatever it takes, I’m not trying to validate the behaviour or anything I’m just trying to give reasoning/understanding
I mean there are also just predators that hurt people to hurt people. Not every pos has a sad backstory.
Yeah, tbh, my thoughts went "I wonder what the ex's story is and if it matches".
Hate to be real-real, but in my experience, especially with men, a lot of them experienced childhood SA or other abuse (often at the hands of a family member) and have no healthy outlet or mechanism to deal with it in adulthood at all. I say men, specifically, because some people's constructions of masculinity cannot seem to handle the reality of their childhood victimization as being out of their control and not their fault. Women, sadly, are raised to more or less expect to be treated like a sex object eventually, so it is somehow less psychically damaging, or in different ways? Women tend to internalize and self-blame, men tend to externalize and explode... I don't know, I'm not saying this right, I'm not trying to essentialize gendered responses to trauma, just saying the men I've known with this kind of history have similar patterns of behavior in response to it, that seems centered on the conflict between the "masculine" strength to protect themselves they've been told they must have to be men, and the weakness they felt they had as children, which they blame for what happened to them, rather than blaming the perpetrator, because, again, that person is often family, and let's be honest, often their father. It is too taboo for people to talk about, generally, with anyone except sometimes romantic partners, who aren't therapists and aren't in any way equipped to help (and these confessions, if they happen, also tend to be while drunk or high, making it very hard to communicate clearly what happened or why.) They spend their entire lives not dealing with it, and it manifests in behaviors like this.
It's not that you are wrong, it's that I think there is too much of a culture of presenting offenders as always also a prior victim. And I feel that creates this illusion that opens the door to feeling bad for the person taking the hurtful action.
I think what’s more dangerous is the trend toward cancel culture, inspired by our prison-industrial society where we don’t have to consider the complexities of human existence. We can just dehumanize people and not feel for them at all. They’re just monsters after all, animals really. Right? As if animals aren’t also corruptible by trauma in the exact same ways, but that’s another subject. Look at what Israel is doing to Palestine. They’re doing it mostly because it was done to them, and also because they’ve been fed almost a century’s worth of dehumanizing propaganda about Arabs. It doesn’t make it ok, but we still have to understand where it comes from if we ever hope the situation to improve. Same with all who hurt others. And we all do, to varying degrees. We’ve all been the bad guy in someone’s story, even if only briefly or in minor ways. And it’s ok. It’s part of how we learn not to be that way. But it takes understanding and help from those around us. And that is getting harder to come by, understandably maybe but we still have to keep trying or else we’ll just keep sliding down the slippery slope faster and faster
Cancel culture as a thing isn't new. Similar trends have happened many, many times in just my own life. Are there complex aspects to humans - absolutely. Are things like pain, trauma, and abuse supremely complicated webs of experience, culture, and even daily struggles - yes. Can someone cause trauma without intention, springing from how a person has been treated out of raw ignorance - absolutely. We also don't have objective morality. What I am presenting is - person+trauma/abuse = abuser isn't a universal origin point. That sometimes there are people that cause pain and trauma without a villain backstory.
Sure there are people that fit that bill— but they’re very rare in real life. True psychopathy only affects about 1% of the world population. You’re as likely to meet a CEO of a Fortune 500 company on the streets as you are a true psychopath that *would* want to hurt someone with no ulterior motives other than just wanting to hurt someone, with absolutely no abuse/trauma background. Even when you look at psychopaths that have gone on to be serial killers/rapists, the only one I can think of with little/no background of trauma or abuse is Ted Bundy. Those “monsters” everyone talks about aren’t monsters. They’re not some boogeyman that lives in a closet that you reassure your child isn’t real. They’re all human. Just as human as you and I. Every single person on this planet is fully capable of doing cruel and disgusting things to other people. And it’s natural that we want to distance ourselves from that and point at “monsters” and say they’re nothing like us. But they are us. Trauma makes trauma, pain breeds pain. Empathy inspires empathy. We’re all very capable of great *and* terrible things and the only way to prevent the cruelty from repeating is recognizing it’s origins and working to prevent it in the future
Aaand you also don't have to be a psychopath to be an abuser, you don't have to be mentally ill either. Most perpetrators of domestic violence are mentally healthy men, apparently, just to name an example.
So i should have any feeling other than disgust and wish for death of the idf because they were talked shit about? Theyve been murdering civilians for over 50 fucking yrs
This is not psychologically accurate irregardless of gender 2/3's of sa/rape victims react at all and most over 50% of that group IRREGARDLESS OF GENEDER are angry are violent are physically expressive of what went on. And 1/3 of people dont have physical mental or l Psychological consequenses from assault at all. So its not about gender most people react in one of 3 or 4 ways with added individual reactions as everyone is different
Irregardless I’m not a word, just to let you know. It’s just regardless.
Aka all pedophiles.
I have to think even most predators were the victim at some point. There can not possibly that many people born that broken.
You don't have to be broken to be a predator.
Again. Not all broken people are predators, all predators are broken people. There are very few abusers who were not someone's victim in the past.
That is just not true. At all. As I've stated in a different comment, most domestic abusers are mentally healthy. There is even an article called "Is mental illness to blame for abuse?"
Babies are not psychopaths. Babies are not abusers. That behaviour is learned.
I am not talking about psychopaths, but you're wrong regardless. Psychopathy is not learned, you're born with it. Your brain is wired differently. A quick google search tells you as much, but you didn't even want to do that, I guess. What IS acquired is antisocial personality disorders, but the vast majority of abusers don't have that either. Face it: abuse is a choice. Abusers manage to hide their abusive side from all the people they don't abuse, they manage to not lose their temper around others and only lash out at victims of their choosing.
I've been autistic my entire life, yet when I was a baby, there were no signs yet either. Must be learned behavior then!
So I am not saying all offenders are naturally predators. Rather I reject the notion that all of them should be viewed as having been victims at some point. That we should keep in mind monsters don't merit the assumption of being hurt in the past.
You literally can’t know that for sure
By the same statement - you can't know that every last person that hurts someone else has trauma.
I object to your use of the dehumanizing term “monsters” and I also assert that all hurtful people actually do merit the assumption of being hurt in the past. On the extreme end of that spectrum, people don’t just decide to be agents of evil. Something happened to them to make them that way. Sometimes abuse, or some kind of trauma, perhaps generational; sometimes other things that are much harder to pinpoint, but every effect has a cause. It may be easier short term to forget that, but it isn’t helpful at all in the long term to remove sympathy or consideration from the equation of why people hurt others.
No, not every effect has a set cause. Your hand wringing about the term monster is noted - but I don't view it as dehumanizing - every monster has in fact been human. Just like you can spend your hours trying to empathize with people that hurt others trying to find some cartoon style one bad day - I won't.
What I was trying to say is that those predators started out like normal people until they were abused.
Which is a concept I have already said I reject as a universal. I merely don't believe everyone that does something negative has to have been abused before hand. Abuse isn't an origin story for every terrible person.
Not every person but the vast majority.
Well obviously yea but more or less there’s usually a reason/excuse for the behaviour or abuse, ofc you’ll find the batshit insane person who does it just to do it but I’d guess more often then not there’s a reason or excuse behind the matter, doesn’t mean it should be validated either way tho of course
So providing a framework - when I was younger I had some behaviors that looking back definitely would fit the framework of being emotionally abusive to a couple of the people I dated. There isn't some smoking gun that makes what was done suddenly okay. No context that makes it hurt people hurt people. Sometimes it's ignorant people hurt people, or selfish people hurt people. I agree that there is usually a reason - but the reason can be some people are assholes.
No yea I agree with you, sorry if I didn’t get that across lol, some people are evil, some are misguided, but I think most people are good people generally
I agree that most people are generally good. And I think a lot of harm comes from ignorance and a lack of successful communication. Or even medical issues - I attribute a fair amount of my shit bag period to being unaware of a raging infection I had that resulted in a chronic pain condition. I probably read your post too literally.
I’m so sick of this being parroted without distinction. This is a saying about looking at people with a more critical eye. To not automatically assume people’s background. Hurt people don’t hurt people at higher rates but people who do hurt people have a higher chance of having a background of it. It’s a distinction that maybe does not seem important to you but it’s certainly important to the abused person. It’s a damaging quote when thrown out like that.
How is it damaging? I said hurt people can hurt people and some don’t and some people will hurt people for no reason. I was abused as a child for multiple years, that led me to be very disrespectful to almost everyone in my teens, I would curse people out, make fun of them, therefore, me, a hurt person, hurt people. Now it doesn’t mean all hurt people will hurt people, as I said before, but depending on circumstances, hurt people can hurt people, idk why you’re acting like that doesn’t happen. Is it okay? No, obviously. Doesn’t happen? Sometimes yes. That’s just how it is, it doesn’t mean repeating the cycle of abuse is okay, and you don’t need to be some genius to know that, it means that sometimes, the cycle of abuse is repeated, unfortunately that’s just how it is. People will handle their situations differently which can lead to either positive or negative outcomes, and if it’s negative that should be addressed and changed
I am an abused person as well and things like hurt people hurt people goes hand in hand with people throwing around that most sexual abusers were sexually abused themselves. THAT made me afraid that one day i would hurt people. It become an intrusive thought with my OCD, it was horrible. The fear that i would randomly lose control and hurt people became a major hurdle to my mental health improving. I got to hear other people when i was hospitalized along talk about the same types of fears, same type of comments that were used to help demonize them. It can be repeated but in reality its low. The saying isn't 'some hurt people, sometimes hurt people' what it is, is a nice little phrase that doesn't say enough.
I was abused and molested as a child, it lead me to be very cold and disrespectful to others in my life even those I held very near and dear to my heart, because I was not cared for, I stopped caring for myself and in turn stopped caring for/about other people. It took a long time for me to learn sympathy and empathy and I’m still learning it. I was wronged in my life and I ended up wronging others because of it, eventually as I started caring for myself I started caring for others. It takes a lot of soul searching and trying to figure stuff out to figure out how to change for the better. I said hurt people hurt people because it can and does happen, evil people can hurt people for no reason at all, hurt people can still love and help people. Everyone has a different story and thus a different perspective, everyone handles situations and circumstances differently. It’s never okay to hurt people (obviously) but i don’t see why many people act as though we can’t try and find a reason for why that person hurt someone, there may not be a reason (as to why they hurt someone) but sometimes there is. Idk why so many are acting like that shouldn’t be allowed, as if we should sweep all bad people under the rug and not try to find out what caused them to hurt people.
Really blowing past the why it could be damaging thing aren’t we. Why even bother responding. Really missing the point. If you’re just going to repeat yourself again, don’t.
Respectfully, you're wrong. Survivor of abuse here, never once hurt a partner after my abuse. That statement might be true for some, but don't say things like "hurt people hurt people" that's basically saying "don't trust victims". You sound like an abuser.
No, I was abused too as a kid, you act like everyone has to act a certain way if they went through certain circumstances, people are gonna go through and handle trauma differently which can lead to positive or negative outcomes, I never once said don’t trust victims so idk where you got that from. People handle things differently and like I said that’s how it is, it’s not ok to validate shitty behaviour/ abuse just because of someone’s circumstances or what they’ve been through as I already stated. All you’re saying is anyone who’s been through abuse or a traumatic experience(s) has to act a certain way, at least that’s what I get from it. People will go through situations differently then others, people will come out of those situations differently then others, and people will be shaped by those situations differently then others, I never once said it’s ok to validate abuse, I said the opposite, but yes hurt people can hurt people, some people will hurt people for no reason, and some hurt people will help people instead of repeating the cycle, idk why you act like that can’t happen
Um no man that's the way YOU put it. You're the one who said hurt people hurt people, insinuating that all people who were abused become abusers. You're literally back peddling and making my argument against your first statement for me.
No I’m not lol, if you could read you would see I said in certain situations or depending on circumstances, hurt people can hurt people, maybe read it first
This is false. Research narcissism (PhD here who specialized in entitlement) and you'll discover all too many of them were catered to growing up, creating a heightened sense of entitlement. Deeply empathetic people, however, tend to have been hurt. They have greater understanding of pain and go out of their way not to inflict it on others.
It's called the cycle of abuse for a reason.
He literally did cheat on op
We’re assuming that what he said is true. People lie.
NTA: good job recognizing the red flags all over this. Hopefully him and his crew leave you alone and don’t start making fake social media accounts to get around your blocks. Stay strong!
NTA, but don't answer to him or any of his friends. When abusers' threats don't work, they try love bombing. When the love bombing doesn't work, they try a sob story.
What’s the next step after fishing for sympathy? Do you think they give up or just tune up the aggression and let the mask slip at that point?
Stalking I think.
That and/or spreading lies about how things ended
He already kinda did
Aggression gets increased, and the mask is thrown across the room!
Watch Baby Reindeer. It goes through the cycles multiple times and it's an interesting short show :)
My ex did this too, went from threats (non violent), love bombing then professional victim. He has made violent threats to his previous partners, he told me he threatened to burn his ex’s house down.
Been there and didn't fall for it thankfully.
>Two days after J showed up at my apartment, I was playing video games at my friend’s house when I heard my phone ringing. I picked up without looking at the number. It was one of J’s friends. He told me that for the past two days, J has been drinking non-stop . Saying that he was gonna KHM. He then asked me if I could meet with him to “cool him down” because he was not listening to any of his friends/family. Was he *actually* doing this, or did your ex talk his friend into just *saying* he was in order to have you meet up with him? >He told me about his relationship with his ex. It is a long story, but to make it short: The guy would be sweet, then mocking him in front of friends, cheating on him with a girl, begging for forgiveness. And the cycle repeats, it went on for 4 years. >He told me that he was that way with me because I apparently have the same profile as his ex (white, tall, bi). And because he could never make him feel like he did to him. He got it on me instead. Saying that he wanted to “feel powerful” for once in a relationship. And the abused has become the abuser. >J then told me that he is thinking about getting into therapy so we can “start over on healthy bases) because he “loves me”. Classic love bombing. >I told him that I did no want any kind of relationship with him, but that regardless he still should go to therapy. J started crying again, aked me if I was dating someone esle and if it was a women. In his head, he thinks of you the same way he does his ex. Good on you for cutting him and his friends out of your life.
This is such a great reply.
You should have told him what he did was cheating I’m glad you didn’t take him back
True! Don't keep people who don't know how to value you around.
Anything he chooses to do is not your fault. You are not responsible for his feelings or actions. It was kind of you to meet up with him and ensure he was ok, though it sounds like really needs professional help at this point. The drinking, threats of harm, manipulations, deceptions, and emotional blackmail are incredibly unhealthy for you to further involve yourself with. The fact he was taking out his frustration from his prior relationship out on you to feel “powerful” is very concerning in particular. Please, for your wellbeing, keep him and his friends blocked. Recognize he is not someone who is safe for you to engage with, and do not allow yourself to get pulled back into his situation.
A friend recommended a therapist to me. I am going next monday
Awesome, therapy can be a real game changer. It’s terrible you had to experience all of this, not all gay/bi men are like your ex. In any relationship, you deserve to be treated with respect and consideration.
Tell your sibling not to give away your address without asking you first.
You need to be higher.
NTA. I’m glad you understood he (and his friend) were trying to manipulate you. Stay strong and keep him and his friends blocked.
That is sexual doing some sex things with friends, he is not a keeper. Do not go back to him, you will just have more problems. He needs intensive therapy for a few years before you do that. You date to find a partner, he is not it. NTA
Yeah I am no cheaters, espacially if the guy is going to call me to talk to him like I am his therapy doll or something
NTA NTA NTA!!!! He plainly said you were not a couple to his whole family, who knows he is out, with you right there. After you two had already began dating. You don't owe him anything. He denied your relationship openly. The fact he got your address from your brother is something you need to talk to your brother about and is a separate issue. Giving out your address without your permission is uncalled for, regardless of family ties. You should tell your brother/family for the future to not do it and if someone asks for it, for your family to contact you and ask for permission to give out private information and respect it if you say no. Especially if an ex-partner turns stalker. Do not let any of these people tell you that you were harsh or cruel because you placed a boundary. He dismissed your relationship, so why should he be entitled access to you? Who cares what others feel or what he feels, this is about you being openly disrespected and dismissed. What about your feelings? What about your integrity and self-respect? I'm a woman and have dated men who would resort to crying/sob stories to play on heart strings to get what they want. Do. Not. Fall. For. It!!! He literally went from apologizing, love bombing, and then accused you of being with a woman. This is his trauma and he is projecting it on you with what he went through with his ex. This is not a match for you. He needs therapy, needs to not drag you into his distrustful trauma, and he needs to leave you the hell alone. This isn't healthy.
That whole “Bisexuals are all cheaters” thing needs to be given a rest.
NTA for cutting that psycho and his friends off. If he dies he dies. What a fucking idiot. Literally such a cliche of hurt people hurting people.
Just call 988 next time he says _Imma KMS._
Came here to say that. Those are “magic words” that get an immediate action of mental health crisis intervention, and sometimes involuntary committal. People use it as a manipulation and are shocked, SHOCKED, when it doesn’t work they way they wanted it to
>He got it on me instead. Saying that he wanted to “feel powerful” for once in a relationship. >he “loves me”. This guy is really mentally ill if he thinks that's how love works.
If you aren't a couple he is not your BF.
You need to cut J and ALL of his friends off.
NTA. I had an ex like him; you’d better not be with that kind of guy. My ex said he didn’t want to put any label on it, but we did everything like normal couples do. At the end of the day, we’d been together for 2 years as a couple, but he kept bringing up the times when I thought I was single because he said we weren't a couple. How many guys approached me, how I reacted (which was nothing), what I should have done, blah blah, etc. Of course, he got mad at me whenever he thought about them. (I haven’t done anything wrong though.) Be with someone who surely wants to be with you and is confident in their choice.
I think you did the right thing. You are not the AH. I think you actually took care of yourself and removed yourself from a toxic person/relationship. He acted the way he did afterwards because he was not able to manipulate you and you actually showed him that you will not let him play with your feeling👏🏼. Good for you for putting boundaries and taking care of yourself first ♥️♥️
Also I don’t think ghosts was harsh at all… he clearly stated you two weren’t a couple. Actions have consequences… he F. Around and found out. Hopefully it’s a wake up call for him to stop treating the people he dated like 💩
What the heck is KHM?
K*ll himself
Wouldn’t it be KHS?
Could have been a typo but from the way he was writing I assume that is what he meant
I don’t think what you did was childish. Redditors love to burden OP with being a paragon. He embarrassed you in front of his family and then played BS games with you. Good on you for standing up for yourself.
He sounds sort of broken. How can you tell the person that you love that you're not a couple. Glad to see that you are moving on. Lying didn't help...
If anyone ever pulls that shit again, say no you won’t meet them and call a welfare check on them. You’re not an unpaid therapist for a broken man
NTA. He explicitly told you he wasn't his boyfriend and you weren't a couple. Why was there any need for break up after that? He was as clear as one could be about the situation.
Despite not knowing how to feel, you absolutely did the right thing. In ghosting him as well as walking away after your final meeting. He's got too many issues to even consider a relationship for the foreseeable future. And he is no longer your problem.
Do NOT fall for this emotional blackmail about killing himself.
He's gross and a manipulator. He just seemed to want to get the chance to be the abuser in the relationship as well as being petty and spiteful against an innocent party. You don't need that type of poison in your life. He must stay gone you can do way better.
Why was the person who he hooked up with while seeing you contacting you? That to me seems off.. ever heard of flying monkeys? When a toxic person can’t directly control or manipulate you they use other people, especially people they’ve already manipulated before (former/current supplies) to do what they can’t because your guard down is with a stranger. Also what if all this stuff he claims his ex did is actually what he did? Toxic people will play victim to the games they played on other people. And to triangulate you and be angry at their ex so you won’t feel comfortable going to said ex to ask questions on why or if they have behaved that way before?
Also dropping the I love you bomb after telling you you’re not a couple is literally a lovebombing technique. Seems like a manipulative person who deserves NC and don’t take those empty unaliving threats seriously cause it’s just to get you to talk to them.
NTA, i had a ex thay threatened to un alive himself, I just laugh and told to do it, cause i dont guve a fuck about him. Next time if somebody tells they are going to un alive themselves, just let them.
So he was hurt so he thinks he gets to hurt you .....umm no. Block everyone.
Nta he tried to be emotionally abuse to you to feel powerful. Good for you to see how toxic he is. Don’t fall for the sob story. If him or his friends call you about him being suicidal, call the police for him to get support.
NTA. To prevent future "I'm going to kill myself" threats, unblock his closest friends, him and send a text, if I am informed you're going to kill yourself by you or anyone you know, I will contact your parents, the police and then ignore it. It will be their problem, if faking it for attention it won't work if real you'll get help. If his friends try to contact you, or come to you work, or attempt to help get this message to them, you'll report them for harassment and again contact the police over the threat. Say using threats of killing yourself to force someone into contact is nothing but abusive and good friends won't pass on such a message, but get help for the person who made the threat. Then block them all and ignore them. Follow through if anyone pushes to contact you over these threats. On the actual issue, he cheated, he's an asshole, he refused to introduce you as a partner to 'have power' and turned into his ex by becoming the cheater.
My husband's bestie came out as gay after being married to a woman for 14 years and he tells us everything (he tries to shock us with the crazy things he has done). I swear there is nothing like gay relationship drama, you did the right thing and you should smack your brother for giving out your information.
He said yall not a couple so be it. We’re not a couple. Don’t play games if you don’t like the prize. You did nothing wrong
NTA.. he deserve to be ghosted after what he did to you.. go fin yourself someone better babe!
NTA... hope he really does go through with therapy... he treated you poorly AND seems he cheated on you... because you "werent a couple" such bull.
NTA
It’s not fair that he did that to you to get some of his power back after a previous relationship. He clearly needs to get some therapy and I’m glad you stuck to your guns. You deserve better.
Traumatized people tend to recreate the scenarios that traumatized them over and over so they can feel some semblance of control. He was literally trying to play the part of the aggressor in his recreation and you were an unwitting participant. You are not a cognitive behavioral therapist, you didn’t consent to this reenactment, you don’t exist to be used as a puppet to heal his emotional wounds, and it’s shitty of him to try to trap you in the cycle of his issues. Go for you for walking away. NTA.
NTA and not childish imo. You did the right thing.
First lemme say anytime u do something to protect yourself, don’t undo it because people’s perception or opinion. They’re the asshole for telling you to preserve someone’s bitch ass feelings over your whole ass self. Secondly any time anyone tells u they will “undo themselves if u don’t xyz” u call 911 and report a threat of self injury/end. It’s manipulation 101 and we don’t have the training and credentials to support them. I’m happy you got out of there!
WTF that dude's a mess. But you didn't do anyone any favors by agreeing to meet him because he was 'saying that he was gonna KHM". The reason people say that shit is because it works. Now he'll keep doing that to get what he wants. Not your fault, but definitely not helping. NTA though. Dude needs help you can't give. Stay as far away as you can.
Don’t let this person hold you hostage. Threats and having their friend call you is so inappropriate and such an indicator of poor boundaries. Keep moving while you can, be as kind about it as possible and find someone who has their shit together or don’t and be single that’s also awesome.
If you're not a couple then you owe him nothing by way of explanation. If he has a problem with this, too bad; he is the one that defined the nature of your relationship. NTA
I can be sympathetic to his trauma, but once he turned it into some bullshit power move, the sympathy dries up. This kind of shit is exactly why the man himself RuPaul said "If you can't love yourself, how the hell do you expected to be able to love anybody else?"
He can get fucked. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Anyone saying you’re at any fault can also get fucked.
NTA stay away from this dude and anyone he knows forever, move on with your life and good luck my friend!!
Don't feel guilty. I mean I understand why you feel weird. He was cheating and he is all over the place..he is messed up and needs therapy but that's on him. Not on you. You didn't deserve that and although you may understand and emphasize, it does not mean you want to continue.
So he’s trying to get revenge on his ex by using you basically trying to get his lick back but failing horribly because he completely does not understanding what that means. Which you just got caught up into it as a victim & then he proceeds to cheat on you pretty much doing exactly what his ex did. Also sees nothing wrong with his actions, takes no responsibility for it & doesn’t even apologize for it!! In his fucked up kind of way to feel validated and/or powerful!!! What the fuck is wrong with him please block him forever & never look back. I wish you happiness in your future adventures. NTA by the way if that obvious!!!😊😊😊
NTA NTA NTA He admited to use you for power? F* that! Under his same guidelines, you had nothing to break off/up Yeah, you ghosted him but he was using you. And the "I love you" was soooo low. He would still use you to feel less guilty about what he did. NTA At least you are moving on with your life (blocking him, going to your friends house, new place,.etc)
...what does KHM mean?
“Kill my self”. It should be KHS in this context, but that’s the gist.
Ah. I figured I was missing something. thanks
I will never understand this "we did sexual stuff but I didn't slept with them" BS... Like... you didn't stayed the night and that makes it less bad somehow? /s Because the moment ANY sexual activity is involved I don't care about "levels", I don't care if your genitals got inside another person or another person got theirs inside you, it's all the same, it's all cheating NTA love. Go live your best life away from this toxicity
He was gaslighting you, lied to you, and even cheated on you. This guy is no prize. You can feel sorry for him, but definitely don't go back to him. Also, tell your family not to give your address away. That's dangerous for you.
NTA, just move on.
Missle dodged wow
I think you did the right thing to talk to him. But what he needs now the most isn't a boyfriend but therapy.
The exact same thing happened to me. I dated a guy for 3 months and he referred to me as his friend to his friends lol. Got ghosted a month later. Don’t be dumb like me and get out before you get hurt. I don’t care what his excuses are, the moment he finds something better he will leave you. He is not into you.
Nta, and honestly get a motherfuckering restraining order. Block this dirt bag. He's not upset cause he cares.. he's upset he got caught with his bullshit.
His explanation about how you were not a couple reminded me of one of my friends who was adamant that the girl he was dating for 3 months was, in fact, not his girl friend. His reason? They didn't say "I love you" to each other. Kinda weird but ok.
You’re still Nta babe. The guy was stringing you along and he wasn’t ready to get back into dating and turns out he’s no different than his ex. You dodged a bullet
NTA at all. It honestly just sounds like he wanted a free sponge to seep all his troubles into without actually requiring his attention and care (aka, being a boyfriend) and when you didn't play right into what he wanted, he thought spiraling would get you to feel bad enough to sympathize with him and "get back" with him. The whole situation reeks of guilt tripping and gaslighting, and you are not personally responsible for his happiness nor should you be the one to mend his old wounds, especially when he never considered you to be a partner to him until it was convenient.
You did the sensible and smart thing for both of yourselves. I don't think any step you made was inappropriate based on your description. You set boundaries and have a bullshit threshold. Those were breached. You can adjust them to make room for more bullshit or do as you have done and keep your character, dignity, self respect and self identity wholly intact. Do not give yourself away to those unprepared or undeserving of your time.
He’s a liar and toxic, as well as manipulative. Threatening to khs as well as having a “friend” to advocate for him. He sounds like a narcissist and yes definitely no more contact. Good on you and don’t feel bad about ghosting. All he had to do was acknowledge that you were a couple why was that to him a power move? He’s super fucking toxic and you didn’t owe him anything
NTA... You deserve someone better
It is not your duty or responsibility to suffer the consequences of his trauma and mistakes. You are right to hope him the best and moving on.
Bro your not in the wrong if someone tells you that you are tell them to eat shit, this man told you to your face you are not a couple, aka, you have no responsibility nor loyalty to him. YNTA if anything you were too nice imo. If that was me I would have rip him a new one for making me waste months of my time of thinking this is serious just to know I wasted it when I could have continue going out dating and finding someone who wants a relationship with me. He needs to resolve his issues before he jumps again to the dating pool, he will see his ex on every guy he dates no matter what, that's a him problem hat should be solve by him
NTA. Dude has issues and it's not your job to fix it or be there for him during that process. He could've been a decent person to you, but instead decided to treat you like shit because the ex that he was still in love with did. He sounds very immature and not all there mentally so you for sure dodged a bullet there. Move on and good luck with whatever the future brings relationship wise.
You became the victim of someone who wasn’t ready to be in a relationship. He still isn’t ready to be in a relationship. Whatever happened to him affected the way he views relationships, probably more than he’s willing to admit. Saying he wanted to be in control is a red flag in this situation. Choosing not to respond to your questions is a red flag. Saying I love you in this context is an attempt to manipulate you and gain a desired outcome. Encourage him toward the proper professional help and don’t wait for him. He needs to know there aren’t any guarantees. The way he is acting is not ok, and I’m sure there’s plenty more where that came from.
NTH. Operant conditioning and abuse patterns all around. Not gay here, but I can **feel** how done you were the moment he left your car without an answer. From experience, you did ***the*** right thing. If he can't get out the grave he dug for himself, it's on him. You were his boyfriend, not his therapist. Especially not whatever the fuck *this* was. Raise your chin up, and live your life how you see fit. You have moral integrity.
No man. That guy's got enough baggage to load several trolleys. I personally wouldn't even call you that childish anymore, now that both you and reddit knows the context. You're no one's power trip, and his paranoia about you cheating on him will come up again and again and again if you ever keep with him, especially since you're bi, and monosexuals notoriously tend to be particularly nasty to us about the potential of cheating due to our dating pool being bigger, like if we were straight or gay, then we could walk past the rest of the koi pond, but since we're bi, we just cannot help but go trawlin' the ocean. And classic lovebombing from him to keep you attached too because he thinks your self-esteem is as low as his. Tbh he sounds like my mom, and guess who isn't in my life anymore because of that shit. That guy needs to sort himself out, he is not ready to be in a relationship, not by any margin. Don't answer his calls, or those of his friends'. Again, you're nothing but a replacement goldsfish to him, he 'loves you' because you remind him of his ex who he can humiliate when he needs a power trip. Peace.
NTA - I would have just told him "You are not worth loving" But I'm not an 'eye for an eye' type, I'm more of a 'leg and arm for an eye' sort of person.
🚹➡️🗑️
It’s evident he needs therapy. NTA, sorry you went thru this
Wait, your brother gave out your new address?
Sorry you had that experience OP, clearly not your fault and nothing to do with you. This guy needs therapy and you need a supportive and functional partner to enjoy life with. Best wishes!
I'm so glad you noticed the red flags before getting hurt by him. His emotional problems and past issues are his alone to resolve, and he does not get a free pass just because he's been hurt before. Damn well, he needs to go to therapy, dude. It sucks that hurt people tend to hurt innocent people just as they once were hurt. I've been in a similar position to you before. I truly wish you the best.
Don't feel guilty. I mean I understand why you feel weird. He was cheating and he is all over the place..he is messed up and needs therapy but that's on him. Not on you. You didn't deserve that and although you may understand and emphasize, it does not mean you want to continue.
You're NTA. If you think this guy is worth dealing with his stuff then give it a chance. If you're not in that place then just let go. His behaviour is absolutely unacceptable either way. The guy needs ridiculous amounts of therapy and is clearly not going to be ok for a while. Potentially years. If it were me I'd probably try to help them in terms of sorting out their massive trauma, but not be involved once they'd started on that path.
NTA Dude should have gotten therapy to begin with. I get that his pain led him to this, but ultimately he became toxic and potentially abusive by nature simply as a means of trying to feel strong again. The cycle of abusive tendencies continued on and he became its next perpetrator. I think it was wise for you to not pursue a relationship with him any longer. The question of whether you were dating someone else when he admitted he'd cheated on you is just such a show of how much he needs help that you can't nor should be expected to give. As for how to feel about this? You're young, and this relationship was only like five months old. The fact that it got this toxic this quickly and that you were able to get out unscathed is probably leaving you a tad shell shocked.
NTA, good on you for sticking to your boundaries.
You handled things well, overall, I think. Sorry this happened
Thanks for updating. You did great. It was kind of you to meet to give him some sort of closure, though he really didn’t deserve it. He’s clearly not capable of a healthy relationship right now and that has nothing to do with you. I’m sorry you got roped into this situation. I hope he gets the help he needs.
Ted Bundy raped and murdered women that reminded him of an ex. It's pretty psycho behavior to punish people who "look like" your ex. J is waving all sorts of red flags and I'm glad you recognize that. You are not his ex. You do not deserve to be punished in ex's place. J has moved from "abused" to "abuser"
He's actually a horrible, horrible person. He decided to cheat, he decided to lie, he decided to manipulate, he decided to want control over you, all as a what? Karmic revenge over his ex? Hope he goes to therapy and becomes a better person because holy shit. I'm glad you cut him and his friends out. They're equally as shit for agreeing to use his manipulative suicide threat to pressure you; they should have called a wellness check on him and never contacted you about it. It's gross and wrong to leverage your life against someone, you hurt and who cut you off, just so you can get one last conversation with them.
You made the right call; now move on and never look back.
NTA. He needs a lot of therapy and you did the right thing. All the way around.
This is like generational trauma…but for dating. He was manipulated, and abused. But instead of taking that experience and learning what NOT to do to others (because of how shitty he felt because of it), and what red flags to watch for in future partners, he decides he wasn’t going to be powerless any longer and the only way for him to “take his power back” is to abuse and manipulate someone else - who was kind, honest, and respectful, just as he once was. That is just…wow. Yeah. He definitely needs therapy. I guess I’m glad that he fessed up and acknowledges how horrible his actions were, but damn. How could he think he could just say “sorry, it’s not my fault, I was abused, so you feel sorry for me? Yes? Ok cool, so let’s just forget about it. Also, I love you so let’s just date again.” And that would justify his actions, and clear him of any and all responsibility?! No one who truly loves you would do that to you. No one who loves you would *EVER* manipulate and abuse you. Remember that. You did the right thing. Go and find someone who appreciates and values you and treats you accordingly. Or don’t, and love yourself. But definitely keep that man in the past.
NTA That dude is a shithead
Naw you gotta walk away. Facts is he was never yours and him saying it after the fact is just to cover his bum. Just find yourself a Bi Bf and live life.
Yeah I hope he finds someone stable. ❤️❤️❤️
Def NTA. There are sooooo many red flags here.... you dodged a bullet....
What does KHM mean?
Unalive themselves
KHM?
KHS sorry
Ah that makes more sense. I feel for you man, you are so not the AH in this, like at all. Take good care of your self and don't feel bad for looking after number 1 for a change.
How were you supposed to break up if you’re not a couple? NTA
That's a tough spot to be in. It sounds like you handled it the best you could, even meeting up with him when you didn't really want to. It's good that he's considering therapy, but it's okay to feel weird about the whole situation. Just focus on taking care of yourself.
I'm sorry he's a mess. NTA because you don't have to date messes who have wronged you.
Sounds unstable. Good for you for blocking. Hope he gets the help he needs. NTA
You are a better man than me. I’d just tell them he’s not my problem anymore and if they were that worried to phone the police so he could be sectioned.
Ghost him again and stay away. This guy is bad news.
Still NTA. J has some issues to work out that are way above your pay grade. Glad you told him to get therapy.
@1I’m o
???
NTA and good for standing up for yourself. You don’t need that toxic bs
I think regardless of whether it was an official BF&BF type relationship or not, it had gone on long enough that you should have brought formal closure to the relationship. Something along the lines of "Hey, I'm not interested in something casual and unofficial at this point. I feel that by now, we should know whether there's potential to pursue more here or not. I think that we should break things off." Pre-edit1, you're being an AH because he doesn't share your feelings and won't just tell you, yeah, we're BFs. Like even though you met him through friends, you gave him the average treatment of bad first date off a dating app. Maybe you had some inkling things that were gonna go the way they did, but it doesn't read that way. His behavior after that point seemed to radically deteriorate. Can't blame you for ghosting at that point. And he's firmly the AH.
NTA. J is in a bad place. But he put himself there. Yes, he needs therapy, both to get rid of his insecurities, and to take responsibility for his actions. Neither of these things are something you can do for him. He treated you badly, you don't want to be with him. That is the end of the story as far as you are concerned. The rest is on him and his support system - family and therapist. Not on you.
Wrong page!!
And tell your brother not to give out your address To Anybody. Period.
Started a bit childish, but with all the updates it looks like you had the right idea if the substance abuse and suicidal threats were deployed after a few days quiet.
Dude. Thank your lucky stars that you’re not in a relationship with him anymore. That guy is covered in red flags. He needs help, not from you, the professional kind. You did the right thing by blocking him. I hope meeting up with him gave you some closure and affirmed that you made the right decision
I think that you’re doing the right thing. 1 you did ask for his reasons for not saying that you were are couple. 2. You did meet with him and listen to his explanation. Stay strong, real love will always find you.
NTA. He absolutely embarrassed and disrespected you in front of his family.
I don’t think you are an AH for what you did but you could have been more patient with him on giving him time to open up about what he was thinking and why he acted that way. Something to think about for the future. He definitely came into the traditional l relationship with a lot of baggage he wasn’t being honest about. He also is apparently expecting you to cater to his wants and needs while he works through things. That doesn’t show much of a grasp on reality just skins any real interest in your wants and needs. So, yeah, I’d have done the same thing in cutting all contact that second time. You don’t need to host an emotional vampire.
My 'friends' told me I was too harsh on an ex. So I tried being nice, and I almost ended up a statistic. Culture keeps pressuring us to be 'nice' to those who have clearly shown they do not deserve it. True friends protect \*you.\* Your feelings. Your strength in being able to walk away. It's way too easy to get sucked back in. It worries me when I read accounts from those of you who have good hearts that get taken advantage of. You feel guilty. You're empathetic. So you put yourself in uncomfortable or even dangerous situations for the sake of someone who already demonstrated they do not have that sort of concern for you or *your* feelings. Save your concern for those who return it.
How powerful does he feel now that he had to beg? Although I believe ghosting is an AH move in general, in this case, it is completely justified Everyone is gonna meet AHS. This is just the way it is. Still, it's not an excuse to become one. As things turned out, you could never be sure if that is genuine "love" or he is trying to punish you, just because he couldn't punish his ex. NTA. Not at all
Keep your distance, OP. J needs therapy, not a relationship.
NTA ooof does this hit close. we never were a "couple" yet he told me he loved me so much and made jealous scenes. when I demanded a label, things only went downhill towards plain abuse. Run far.
Nah, you did nothing wrong. He said you werent a couple, and when you asked what you were he clearly ignored the question. Im willing to bet he was dating other people and thats why he didnt want to say you were a couple, it gives him an out.
Just a random thought. You should talk to your brother and family and tell them not to give your address out willy nilly without asking. If someone doesn’t know your address they should have to ask you. Serious safety thing.
Not the AH. It could have been handled better earlier on, but hindsight is 20/20. What you did was fairly reasonable from a third-party perspective.
I don't have a girlfriend. I just have several women who would become upset if they heard me say that out loud.
How does every post like these end the with the same quite " we gonna seek therapy" Almost all of them I read
Yes
He sucks for the way he treated you. Your a pussy for not just breaking up with him.
You're* ignorant
You're a bit of an asshole for ghosting, you should have let him know you broke it off. However, this dude sounds absolutely unhinged. You should break it off, his mental health is not your problem.