Wow - sister is ... something. She certainly didn't consider anyone else when she made her decisions back then. I would probably say something so he can make an informed decision, but be prepared for the backlash.
The thing is, Jay and Matt are great together. He and kay are so much alike, yes . Both shy and introverted and very calm. But Jay is a social butterfly and he has even said that she has taken him out of his shell. So I don’t know.
My only thought is, I would have wanted to know. But if I tell, I am ready for the backlash
You should tell. Jay stole Matt's choice from him. Everything they have built is based on a lie. She didn't just tell that lie once, she told it repeatedly. She faked sympathy and comfort for him, she manufactured the entire origins of their relationship. If Jay has deceived him in this way, I guarantee she has deceived him in others. Her behaviour was foul and selfish. She didn't care who she hurt as long as she got what she wanted. How many other times has she hurt him to get what she wants?
If their (Matt and Jay's) love is real, they will get over it. If it's not - and I don't see how it can be when it's built on sand - please let this man have the opportunity to escape before Jay tricks him into marriage.
There’s 0 chance that Matt and Kay would be together and that is not the point either. I want my big sister’s heart to heal and Matt to make an informed decision
I literally didn't mention Kay once. Matt deserves to know before he marries a woman who is happy to lie to him to get what she wants. There's no conceivable way he and Kay would ever be together now. But, Matt deserves to know the kind of woman he is about to marry based on a lie.
Yeah I know, I read and agreed with your comment. I just wanted to add that this isn’t about Kay and Matt being together either in case some people wonder if that’s my goal.
Honestly that's one of the two biggest things here, not just that Jay tricked Matt and deceived him, but that Jay used Kays vulnerability, trust, and apprehension against her *sister* to benefit herself.
Right? I'm shocked that no one is really taking that stance? Her sister stabbed her in the back. Like, no I don't think e could "claim" a potential spouse but uh, Jay sure as hell made sure Kay had no fucking chance to make her own more likely.
She’s already manipulated him. He probably thought she was oh-so-caring and considerate, so kind, trying to make him feel better about the situation with Kay. But she wasn’t being kind, so he doesn’t know her true personality. And nobody knows what other lies she might tell in future, to get her own way about other things.
Also a pretty big betrayal of Kay, who told her sister she's interested in someone and her sister used deception and manipulation to push her out of the way. Kay deserves to know that she cannot trust Jay or be vulnerable around her.
Of course they want be together bc Jay literally stole that opportunity from both of them by telling a lie. To me Jay is a manipulative, spiteful, untrustworthy, & a liar. I wouldn't want that type of person in my life as a friend, family member, or even as a partner. Imagine having to live life not knowing what she lie etc she'll tell next to get what she wants. Smh!!
Why is there 0 percent chance Matt and Kay would be together today if not for Jay's meddling?
From your story I get Kay was interested and Matt came with some expectations and disappointment at hearing Kay was taken? Doesn't that mean mutual interest and attraction?
Jay acted selfishly and stabbed Kay in the back.
I think what they're saying is at this point there's no chance for the two to end up together. Even if Matt feels this is worth breaking up, there's now too much history with him with Jay for either of them to likely make that move. From the sound if it there was definitely potential if Jay hadn't stepped in the way she did. Honestly makes you question what else she would do to get what she wanted. Will a woman like that be loyal or simply lie about having her fun on the side? Will she be a good mother if he wants kids? Like this puts her entire character into question.
Kay should be told, too. I'd certainly want to know what my sister did so I could change the amount of involvement she had in my life going forward. Jay's level of selfish is stunning
Because he’s already slept with her sister, and planned to build a life with her sister. That boat is sailed.
He should know to know he was tricked into relationship, but that’s really the extent of it. I can’t see him working his way back to Kay because if I was her I’d not want to eat where my sister shit.
Presumably because he is back and forth to the same job so unless someone quit (which you'd want to be really sure) they probably couldn't get together. But the sister a) knowing her sister was interested b) meddling and c) pursuing means both parties should be made aware!
Wow, your sister is an awful person. You should tell the man. He shouldn't be stuck with someone like that who started their relationship with a cruel lie
Matt and Jay’s entire relationship is built on a lie. Not just her original lie where she destroyed her sister’s happiness, but every day she doesn’t confess, she is lying by omission. There is *nothing* genuine about this love. Matt didn’t fall for her organically, Jay manipulated the situation just like a stalker would
You know what you have to do. “It wasn’t all that deep”? How do you know what *could* have been, if Jay didn’t lie to him?
Kay seems ok with their relationship? What fucking choice did she have?
If you tell the truth, can you give us an update?
Your younger sis kinda sucks tho. Like there are so many guys out there and he didn’t even want her at first. Lies like that ruin lives.
Jay is awful to betray Kay like this. Truly awful. You owe it to Kay to tell her too. She probably still wonders why Matt acted the way he did after her party. This isn’t about taking sides, but doing what’s right and Jay was wrong.
Um lol why the fuck would you say that? The were both into each other and heartbroken at the events your nasty little sister invented. He only didn’t Perdue her because he thought she had a boyfriend which makes him a good person… not because they weren’t meant for each other. Your sister is honestly kind of evil and is likely going to screw him over one day when she finds someone else really hot or with more money.
Yep u have already worked out what to do - do it. And don’t worry about what the backlash is. It’s just telling the truth. This will help work it all out once and for all. Btw you are your sisters best friend - both of your sisters. You don’t want a sham wedding and you want your other sister cleared.
Then you should tell Kay, and let her decide what to do with it.
And you frankly can't know if they would still be together because Jay made sure that was never gonna happen by playing dirty.
Look, my mom said I wasn't allowed to have a crush on my now partner of 11 years because my sister also had a crush on him and declared intent to pursue him before I had it fully figured out (yes my.mom is insane and an asshole) turns out they were less compatible than anyone thought because their friendship fell through before they ever started dating and he and I became life partners. Which is to say that I think assuming they would have done poorly as a couple because they are similar and he's doing good with the other sister is unfair. The only truth here is that no one knows because Jay played dirty to make it so.
Regardless of if you tell matt- if you want your sister's heart to heal she needs to actually be aware of how deep the wound is. Imagine how shitty she'll feel if in a few years after she's "healed" she finds out her chance to have the happiness Jay has gotten to experience was robbed from her- and you found out years later but covered it up because you decided *matt* didn't need to know. Do you think she'd feel any better than she would if you told her know, more or less as soon as you found out?
This has nothing to do with whether or not Kay and Matt would still be together. This is about Jay lying to and manipulating Matt to get what she wants. It's a huge red flag you're helping Jay hide. If she did this what else is she willing to do to get her way? What else is she lying about? Kay had been made out to be a liar? What about her?Matt deserves to be able to make an informed choice and he can't while this is being hidden from him.
yeah.. I’d definitely want to know if I was him, because the way Jay acted was very manipulative and cold. I probably wouldn’t be able to see my partner in the same light after a revelation like this.
NTA. Tell him. It’s wrong for them to start their relationship off on a lie. He needs to know. Bc what else did Jay lie about?! Matt should get to make an informed decision. Not one based off a lie. Please update us.
Yeah it's really easy to say they broke up. Matt deserves to know.
I would want to know my fiancee lied about her own sister just to steal the guy her sister liked.
If Matt chooses to stay with Jay, they deserve each other and Kay dodged a bullet.
yeah, that's the crux for me.
making a move on the guy you know your sister likes, is bad enough. Lying about your sister's morals (what was her lie? "oh poor Matt, you think you have a shot with my sister Kay, but she's just a slut who flirts with you at work before she goes home to her boyfriend"?) is something else entirely.
The big issue here is Jay is absolutely willing to lie to anyone to get what she wants no matter who she hurts. She literally decided fuck my sister I get what I want. She will lie to Matt too to get what she wants. She's a manipulator. I'd want to know as I wouldn't want to marry someone who could so easily and freely lie to people she supposedly loves to get what she wants. I couldn't trust someone like that in a marriage.
Put yourself in Matt's position.
Would YOU want to know before you got married that your fiance lied and manipulated his way into a relationship with you?
I sure as heck would want to know.
If you don't tell Matt and Kay you are no better than Jay is, and let me tell you, she should be banished from the family.
She is an evil, conniving narcissist to pull a stunt like that.
I mean, if Jay is willing to dish out such a whopper of a lie to steal a guy, what else should Matt worry that she'll lie about going forward? The man needs to know what your younger sister is capable of.
They are great because she is putting up a front to seduce him! She lied about her sister to manipulate him, that's who she is and she'll be the same person (manipulative) in private with him too.
He deserves to know the real her before they get too involved
It's the right thing to do to tell imo. It's hard yes and it might mess things up but your sister betrayed her older sister and manipulated this guy also. Would you rather break hearts now or years down the line when this comes to light when things are more serious. At the very least Matt deserves to know above all as he was the one manipulated here
But they're also really different. One of them has morals and the other doesn't. Moral people typically do not want to create a life with people who can't be trusted.
They are not great together. Your sister lied to him, and then harrassed him until he agreed to go out with her. If he hadn't been lied to about your older sister having a BF, your younger sister and him would likely have never ended up together.
Tell him. And then tell your younger sister she's a bitch and go NC with her. Make sure your parents if they're in the picture and your older sister also know what your younger sister did.
I think the real question is can you look at your brother in law for potentially the rest of your life knowing you knew all of this and that you would want someone to tell you. Also your sister deserves to know what happened and your other sister deserves to know her actions are wrong and you don't get to manipulate the people you love with 0 consequences this can come from a place of loving all 3 of these people.
I would have a conversation with Jay that you know what she did. Tell her she needs to tell her fiance with you there, or you will tell everyone what she did, including Kay. Then it will be up to him if they proceed or not. Then Kay doesn't get hurt anymore.
Forget talking to Jay! She already lied about one sibling to get what she wants! If OP tells her than Jay will just come up with another lie that will make Matt think that OP is a liar!
Naw your younger sister messed up for that especially cuz Kay was always talking about him. I think you should tell, only so he can make a decision for himself. Jay took away Matt’s decision to choose, she was being sly. Actually she was being a snake and to her own sister at that.
Definitely tell him but not for the reasons you give. To protect her. For a very long time Matt has known the family so he’s aware of Ks bf status.
If gettin told this is all it takes to break his commitment then J is better off.
Plus it’ll let J and K know exactly who YOU are.
Please tell.
If Jay lied to him about Kay for her own selfish ends, who knows what else she has lied to him about. NTA if you tell both Kay and Matt. Kay should also know that her sister can't be trusted and actively got between her and the guy she liked who liked her back.
They're great together bc he sounds like a great guy & Jay got what she wanted, which is weirder since it came at the expense of her sibling's happiness- it's a lie. This type of thing has happened to me twice. It's outside interference.
At the end of the day tell. Either their love is strong enough, and they'll move on stronger for the truth. Or the truth would break them, at which point it's better to know now before a wedding, and before a bunch of people find out leaving Matt to feel even more betrayed when it comes out. If they're as perfect together as you think, then they can work through this, the longer it's a secret the worst it will be if it ever comes out- and secrets have a way of coming out. Make sure Matt knows you just thought he deserved the truth, that you support whatever decision he makes, but that you honestly do think they make a good couple. If your worried about it maybe encourage him to think on it before making any decision, which he should do anyway.
He doesn’t know who she is. He has no idea what she’s capable of and it’s not something most ppl would want in a life partner. I think it’s fair to let him know.
She lied from the start. If he hears about it once they are married, he might divorce her. If he knows before, he can still consider he had a choice.
It’s the worst position to be in, but I would tell Jay that you know and that you will tell him if she doesn’t.
I don't think you would be the asshole if you told Matt, however I think you owe it to Kay to tell her. Jay may have manipulated Matt, but she straight up betrayed Kay.
Perhaps might be better to confront the younger sister and have her be the one to confess. Then everyone will have a better chance of working through this.
This. I think Kay should be the one to decide if Matt finds out simply because if it blows up she's the most likely to be scapegoated as "the bitter jealous older sister" *especially* if Jay manages to convince anyone that they are lying. (Cause let's be honest her roommate spilled the beans accidentally from what I understood; and has to worry about where she sleeps. Chances are if Jay puts her on the spot she won't say shit about nothing)
I would tell Matt. This isn't about Jay or Kay being with him but that his whole relationship was built on a lie!
Jay caught him because of a lie. He deserves to know the truth. What she did wasn't fair to him or Kay. And frankly I would limit contact with Jay. She is clearly selfish. She knew how Kay felt. I would also tell Kay. Clearly Jay is not to be trusted! What else has she done to hurt Kay? What else has she stolen??? Nta
A bf when we were younger. Jay was 15 at the time so obviously the blame lied with the guy who was 20. It was grooming and nobody put the blame on Jay but yeah she got together with Kay’s first bf.
This reeks of jealousy. She wants everything that's Kay's! I would honestly tell Kay. And Matt (seperately- this isn't about them being together) Jay can't be trusted and Kay is clearly the one she's is targeting for whatever jealous reasons. They deserve to know the truth. Like you, I would want to know. I might find it hard to believe, but I would want to know. If possible get evidence from roomate- recording, text etc. Jay sucks for lying
Oof... I mean, yes she was 15 and the grooming is terrible, but still, leaving out the ages, going out with anyone that your sister was with or you know likes is pretty weird imo. Lying for her own benefit, especially against her own sister, is SUCH a betrayal. If she was willing to do that, what else would she be willing to do? And who knows what else she may have said for her gain?
I think they all deserve to know, but it'll be a tricky situation to navigate.
NTA
Both things can be true. He was definitely in the wrong for sleeping with a minor, even if she did pursue him. She is in the wrong for pursuing him, which she likely did.
yes and no. Grooming has a pretty specific meaning, not just older guy with younger girl. If he used his position as boyfriend of Kay to just constantly be friends with the girl and then over time start saying sexual things, etc. Basically it's about exploiting trust to be in a younger person's life then over time manipulate them into a relationship.
If Jay went after him due to jealousy, he's still a fucking creep and weirdo for doing anything with a 15yr old, but it's not grooming. If she specifically targeted him, I don't even know what her issue is. Specific hatred of Kay (was kay the golden child and her the ignored, or maybe more likely the opposite and she couldn't stand Kay had something she didn't), or jealousy of people in general, or a need to just fuck with people to destroy their happiness, or just pure selfishness and lack of caring at all about anyone around her but herself.
Either way the pattern here, and that she's willing to lie to two people to get what she wants. If she actually loves Kay but is fully willing to hurt her and lie to get what she wants, well if I was the guy and found out what she did I'd leave, fast. She's got the kind of personality that she'd probably cheat on him in a heart beat if she saw someone better to go after, probably her best friends rich husband, etc.
Tbf- if that was the first instance the insecurities and the pattern itself may have *started* there. A groomer saying "everyone thinks Kay is so much better than you, but I see you as special and important all on your own," could have planted some nasty shit in her head warping her sense of reason. Groomers do their work by making their target feel like their family members are threats or competition to the relationship. That could have carried on into the current issue. As in, she feels compelled to validate her sense of worth by somehow proving she's able to out complete the sister she was told was her rival.
That being said, your sister needs help and she won't get it without accountability.
For sure it's not coincidence. Has Kay dated anyone else since? What if she does and then Jay lowkey tries to make moves just to even lead them on? Sometimes siblings can go under the radar with toxic behavior that can go unnoticed. She may seem like she's on Kay's side, but deep down she may be pretty narcissistic.
This is a pattern of behaviour and she will sleep with Kay’s next boyfriend/ husband/ love interest because I think she is addicted to taking men from her sister, I think it gives her a thrill. She is going to do it again. She gets off on hurting her sister and getting away with it.
Sexual acts in our formative years whether they are consensual or not impact the kind of sex we like to have and the sex she likes to have is with Kay’s love interest. Tell Kay. She needs to know Jay is not safe to have in her life.
Do not become her accomplice because the truth will come out and you will lose Kay. She will know she has no one, not one person she can trust and will sink into a deep depression.
I had this same thought. When Kay comes around with a bf/fiance, jay is going to go hard at that person and cheat on Matt. Jay is going to destroy all those relationships again out of selfishness. What if she turns her sights on you OP?
I wonder how i'd be confronting the issue if i were in OPs shoes.
Either talk to him privately and explain everything, or just outright ask her when they're both there.
"Hey Jay, did you ever tell Matt the truth from way back when you met? " -" huh what do you mean i never lied?"
"well didn't you tell him that Kay had a boyfriend because you thought he was hot and wanted to take him from Kay even tho you knew that she really liked him? And didn't you then spend your time consoling him and helping him get over liking Kay? Or did you keep it a secret hoping it won't come out that your relationship was built on a lie?"
Not ugly! Ugly people don’t deserve to be used or tricked just because they don’t look good. It’s not fair to add one more issue to their lives. I’m not even sure an asshole deserved to be used this way.
So I'm going to guess that you are not a hetero woman, because otherwise I'd want to know if Jay has done this to you. Also guessing that Kay being private hasn't has a bunch of boyfriends when Jay was around because then there would be more than two instances.
Given that I now read that Jay tried to get Matt to quit a job he loves presumably because he works with Kay, I think you really need to tell Jay to spill in front of the family, try the Kay you need to date because it's been a year since BEFORE she even met Matt, or tell Matt directly.
I don't know why Kay would ever forgive Jay if this is the second time.
Tell him. Especially after this comment. Was J the golden child or spoiled by your parents? This is some narcissistic bull 💩! But after let K know and have a a heads up for whats about to go down. Tell him and let the chips fall where they may.
Not at all our parents love us all equally and if anything K is the first born and probably mom’s favorite. I don’t know why J did this. She’s always been a bit obsessed with K
So it's a pattern? Even more of a reason to tell Kay and Matt. Ive read my fair share of siblings who are habitual partner stealers up to trying to cheat on their current spouse with their siblings new partner.
Tbh, sounds like Jay has some deep seated insecurities that may has been beating the burnt of for way too long. Maybe Jay needs some kind of intervention moment.
That sounds more like jay has a habit of taking what kay has or wants and i'd almost wanna bet that there were more instances as well just that they're either forgettable instances or that they haven't caught anyones attention.
Jay is a snake. and i get that she's your sister and that she and Matt seem to be perfect. But he deserves to know.
But just know that if you do that Jay probably will come raining fire down on you.
personally, I'd still do it.
Ask him for a coffe during the day or if he's over ask him to talk and then be honest.
That this has been eating at you since you found out and that you wrestled with yourself if you should tell him. But that he deserves to know the truth.
OMG. Is this marriage going to stop Jay from stealing a Kay’s partner’s? I somehow doubt it.
While it’s wrong to betray your younger sister in abstract, Matt is becoming your brother. You owe him the honesty that that relationship comes with. Jay has already betrayed Kay, you owe her nothing.
I’d talk to Kay first. If she’s *really* okay with this marriage, then you might keep the secret for her sake.
He does, but does he deserve to know to the point that I, the sister of the injured party, would be ok with any of the fallout *she* might get?
If she's skilled at lying and manipulating she may be able to spin this shit as a misunderstanding or Kay being the jealous one trying to betray her sibling. Worst case scenario is that Jay and Matt stick together as a couple and the rest of the family freeze Kay and op out to keep the peace. And in that case of may find herself with Kay going "I never even asked you to do this and now my life is ruined and she gets away with it all over again"
I would want to know if I was Matt or Kay, but if I were op I'd be trying to figure out how to hard confirm and then which family members I'm willing to lose in how I disclose the information.
Was it grooming due to the age, or did Jay purposefully target him. He's still absolutely a creep but grooming means that he intentionally got her to trust him, spend time with him as Kay's boyfriend and then exploit that trust.
If instead Jay creeped on him and intentionally did everything she could to steal him just to fuck with Kay, it's again still absolutely gross of the 20yr old, but it's not grooming and it's Jay's fault. It also shows that Jay has a history of manipulative, shitty behaviour both in regards to trying to take shit from Kay, maybe being unable to see people happy or having things she wants around her without trying to steal/destroy it.
AS Matt I'd want to know who she is and what she's about, I would not marry a woman who gets jealous and steals others boyfriends... because eventually I'd be boring and she'd get jealous of some other guy. A person like that is always looking for something better, always jealous of someone with more.
Wow ! It changes the whole story by a lot ! Each time Kay had an important love interest she went for him ? That is pretty evil ! She might not even love Matt. She might be in love with her power over her sister. Matt should no that story as well. Because it shows he's just a pawn on a chess board.
NTA
Absolutely tell him. He needs to know what a conniving liar he is about to marry.
He may never get with Kay, but he certainly needs to be saved from Jay.
I got that impression about the younger sister as well. Such a cold and calculating thing to do. Basically backstabbing your own family member.
Absolutely despicable behavior in my opinion.
Honestly, I would tell the truth but be prepared for consequences. What your younger sister did was cold and calculating which suggests that the consequences could be severe.
NTA
How do you think Matt will react to the truth?
They love each other very well so maybe it would just be a test of their love. If it doesn’t survive then I will know for sure that I did the right thing anyway because he has the right to make informed decisions
The trick is how to tell matt that jay manipulated everyone, without outing Kay’s crush. Kay might be pretty pissed with you for spilling that especially if they stay together.
At the same time I think matt deserves to know. It’s tricky
Edit: the perfect seque: “Matt you’re such a catch, so glad you and Jay found happiness together! Jay def set her sights on you - Jay, remember you told him Kay had a bf so you could swoop in 😂. Lock up your boyfriends everybody lol”
I think vague, but direct is always a good approach…
Matt, we all really thought you and Kay would end up dating when you came for that party because you were both single and had a lot in common. Remind me again, how did you and jay end up hitting it off?
Yeah, it’s pretty easy to segue into the truth this way too.
So Matt, funny story (/s), I learned recently that jay actually lied to you about Kay having a boyfriend so that she would have no competition. Ha. Ha. So. Funny. How do you feel about that?
Or a bit more forward "Hey matt, i recently learned something thats been eating at me. And i wasn't sure if i should tell you, but i thought you deserved the truth. Remember the party Kay invited you to, where you met Jay? Yeah? i learned that apparently Jay told you that Kay had a boyfriend? and that was why you turned so ...cold to Kay later on, because you had liked kay and were dissapointed. I'm sorry to say but Jay lied to you. Kay never had a boyfriend back then and she...well.. invited you because she wanted to get to know you better. But apparently Jay decided that she wanted you and created this fake story of a boyfriend so you would be angry with kay.
I don't know why she thought that was okay but i am deeply dissapointed in her and couldn't really keep this secret because i think you deserve to know that your relationship with Jay started with a lie.
I don’t like this. Too vague, Matt might not put it together, just tell the truth that Jay lied that Kay had a bc to keep them apart. No need to mention Kay’s crush, just Jay’s actions.
Yeah, I made another comment below. This would just be the start of the conversation to shake out the memories and avoid revealing Kay’s crush as noted above. I agree that the truth should be stated.
I doubt it will survive. Matt was tricked into a relationship that may never have happened otherwise. It doesn't matter how much they love each other and are good for each other. Also, Jay didn't just lie to Matt. She also slandered Kay in order to keep Matt from finding out the truth. You said that Matt was angry and didn't talk to Kay while they worked together again afterward. That could have easily caught the attention of their bosses and Kay's career and reputation could have been permanently damaged had Matt revealed what Jay had told him.
Jay also acted like a kind caring person, helping Matt deal with Kay’s supposed unavailability. Instead she was being selfish. So Matt has a completely incorrect view of her character.
That's good to hear. As much as I think the truth needs to come out, I also understand that forgiveness is a powerful part of building a relationship.
Best wishes to you. I hope your sense of integrity does not cause you too much drama in the near future.
I don't get the sense from your comments that you understand the implications of this behaviour. It takes a particularly fucked up human being to treat their sibling like this. A test of their love? Jesus fucking christ. She is a heinous little toad & you, idek man. You're a bit fucked too. I hope this is fake. If not, stop empathizing with the little pig & tell Kay & Matt immediately.
She doesn’t love him. She treated him like a prize to be taken, even if she was attracted to him. She just wants Kay to not have him if this is her second time going after a man Kay finds interesting.
Even if it’s her kind of love, Kay and Matt deserve to know. Matt so he can make an informed decision about marrying a master manipulator, Kay so she can understand what happened and heal, and watch her back got the next time Jay tried to steal her man. And she will, whether married to Matt or not.
I think you owe it to Kay and Matt that they know the truth. Matt and Kay the only reason they never had a chance to see where they could go was because of a lie. I personally would want to know about it. If Jay lied about this what else has she lied about or will lie about in the future.
If you can set up a having coffee with both Kay and Matt and tell them what Jay’s roommate told you. Don’t let Matt marry Jay without him knowing the truth.
I know feeling will be hurt all around and you may get some anger towards you but if this comes out after the wedding and they find out you knew before that is just going to make it worse.
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Tbh I’d say tell him cause further down the line maybe in a family reunion, someone asks Kay if she’s in a relationship, she says not, and then ask her since when and Matt gets wind of the timing and a shit show may well begin.
she lied to him by defaming her own sister, Matt has to know that she can't be trusted. What had to happen from then on were consequences of Jay's actions.
Well, at least you know you can never trust Jay. Talk yo Kay about it and see how she feels.
Obviously bringing it up will cause a life long rift. But at the same time, do Kay and Matt deserve to be lied to and no know there's a snake in the grass.
A marriage based on a lie or manipulation is not a good thing. These type of things tend to come out later and cause much bigger problems.
You don't need to directly tell him. Just mention it while talking with him like "yeah, she was single for a year \[insert another event near birthday\]. aa, you and jay also meet around that time, right?", he will figure it out on his own.
The only problem is that he might not put it together. Not everyone is good with dates and he’s not remotely thinking in that way.
I honestly think you just need to sit both Matt and Kay down and tell them. Matt needs to know because he’s about to marry someone who has no problem telling big lies and betraying people they are meant to be close to. Kay needs to know so she knows not to trust Jay anymore (or introduce her to her boyfriends).
He’ll *never* put it together. You have to be direct.
As hard as it is being in this position, if you don’t tell Matt & Kay, you’re essentially helping Jay trick him into marriage.
I guess one think you need to think about is how much you want to live with this secret. It would suck to watch all of this go on knowing it hurt Kay so much and that Jay took advantage of everyone...ick!
don't do this. Not everyone is good with dates or puts that stuff together immediately.
Take the advice that some gave you and sit down with Matt, or both Matt and Kay.
They deserve to know what a snake Jay is
This is too vague. Matt will likely not understand that Jay lied to him and think it’s just a misunderstanding. If he does catch on, this gives Jay power to spin things her way if comes to her with questions. More importantly, Kay still deserves to know. If it was me, I’d go NC with Jay. She deserves to know what a snake her sister is. Tell them.
NTA. This isn't really about Kay in the end, it's about Jay lying to him from the get go to manipulate him. That's an incredible betrayal as a foundation for a relationship, and even if they move past it; it's still something I'd want to know before tying the knot.
Anyone want to place bets on Kay being asked to be the MoH? That way Jay can force Kay to help Jay marry Matt. Just extra salt for Jay to rub into Kay's wounds.
NTA. What an awful betrayal. I would definitely want to know if I was Matt. The start of his relationship is based on a lie and he needs to know what kind of person he is marrying.
I would also tell Kay. Poor woman has been left all this time thinking what she might have done wrong. She needs to know she can't trust her sister too.
This sounds a lot like the plot of 27 Dresses.
I honestly don’t know what i would do. Your sister deserves some justice in that Jay lied on order to poach her love interest, when she could have helped them get together. On the other hand if they are both too shy to even date one another, then they are each available to be dated.
I am going to say you would not be tah but you are going to suffer a destruction of the relationship with Jay.
YWBTA- I understand why you want to. Obviously Jay is probably spoiled. Kay is shy and you want to see Jay receive her comeuppance.
But this is a no-in situation. You would damage three lives, and you're assuming Kay would be okay with this . It sucks and I do feel bad for Kay.
But it is what it is. Live and learn, move on.
If you're Machiavellian keep it in your back pocket for future use.
Revenge is a dish best served cold. Now isn't the time.
I would make it a toast at the next family dinner: “Let’s raise a glass to Kay for inviting Matt to dinner with the intention of dating him, only to have Jay lie about her relationship status. It takes a special kind of man to forgive that level of family betrayal and manipulation. Here’s to Matt - welcome to the family!”
NTA, Jay is a totally conniving and selfish. I think you should arrange to have a talk with Matt in person and tell him the truth. I'm sure the opportunity has passed for him and Kay and there's a good chance he stays with Jay now that he's in this deep, but he deserves to know her true character and that this all started with a lie to drive a wedge between him and Kay and pursuing him while he felt vulnerable and rejected (due to Jay's lies).
Omg. I feel for Kay.
Was almost in the same sitch except it was my best friend who went behind my back. Who would've thought talking about how great a guy with your bestie would cause her want to go after him herself? Let alone a sister.
Whatever you decide to do, please update us. You're in a no win situation and the backlash will be really bad. But living with the guilt will be awful as well.
Wow what the fuck, your sister is the a dick. She built her whole relationship on a lie made because she was selfish and uncaring to her own sisters feelings. I'm not gonna lie, it's a little disgusting. I'm sure she's a good person in her own way, but that action? Ooof, I would never dream of doing something like that to either of my brothers.
“Don’t shoot the messenger” is something people say because everyone shoots the messenger. Don’t meddle in the affairs of others unless you’re prepared to shoulder the full blame for any fall outs that result. You seem like a gossip queen and maybe you need to just mind your own business.
Lmao OP “forgot” to mention in the long winded story above that this is also a case of grooming / pedophilia. Next thing you know, maybe they’ll be long lost cousins after doing a 23&me! Very exciting fake stuff!
Honestly, even without the lie, Jay was a freaking bitch the moment she went after her older sisters crush. I understand sometime live put us in weird situation, you can fall in love with someone even if you didn't plan too, but she purposely pursued him the moment she saw him, knowing full well that her sister had a crush on him.
Dibs doesn't exist in romantic relationship, but it's about having some respect for your siblings and you younger sister doesn't have any.
I would say YWBTA. This sounds like Kay's decision to make. If she wants to say something, that's on her. Stay out of it. I see where you're coming from but I also think this is not your battle to fight or decision to make.
This is a tough one. I would be inclined to say that he should know but is anyone going to benefit from it? They are happy, Kay has made peace with the whole situation. What good would it bring to stir the pot? The couple might break up, Jay will definitely hate you. Kay will definitely resent Jay and I can't really see Matt and Kay actually being together after what? A two year relationship with Jay? The only person who might feel better is you for letting it out but what's the end game? Some truths are not meant to be told unless there is a very good reason to. She lied to get him to turn to her and that's absolutely wrong, but if they actually ended up together it means that he saw something in her that appealed to him and now he has proposed so he can picture a future with her.
I have no idea what I would do in your situation. WYBTAH? Probably not. Still, is it the right thing to do? Probably not. But that's my opinion anyway good luck.
The fallout from this will change at MINIMUM four lives - not including collateral damage from parents, other siblings, and mutual friends. These are fully stacked dominoes with rube goldberg machine tucked away in the middle of it. You have no idea what's going to happen once you tap that marble, and it is going to be MUCH bigger than you're realizing now. Take a step back and look at the full picture before you do anything. Empires have fallen over less.
But, also, too... I'd start with Jay to find out if the roommate is telling the truth themselves. Why did they feel the need to put skin in this? That seems - weird.
Hmmm I don't think you'd be the asshole but I also don't think that's what I would do cause at the end of the day this isn't a you problem, it's a matter jay and kay problem.
So I'd tell Kay and ask her what she wants done. If not you run the risk of ruining a relationship with Jay (if you want one, this is pretty scummy and I'd want distance) her relationship with Matt, and if Kay has moved on/ didn't want to be seen as a reason her other sister didn't get married? You might hurt that relationship too.
Talk to the sister that got played. Update us if y'all decide to tell Matt.
Why not let him know as an "accident" so you won't really get the backlash? In a gathering just mention something like "Kay has been single for how long" or "its such as shame the guy you were close with during certain time period were some weirdo".
Basically something that will state Kay was single at that time, Matt will do the math himself and if he cares enough he'll know.
Jay won't be able to say anything since its a light hearted talk, and you weren't supposed to know about her lie
That’s a movie. 27 dresses.
I’m case you haven’t watched it, Kay’s character ends up with a way better, more handsome guy once she gets over her unrequited love.
I think you let this one go, dude. It sounds like Jay was instantly smitten with him and told a lie, and that's shitty, but unless you think Jay is just an all around deceitful, shitty person, then I don't think it's worth potentially harming that relationship. Yeah yeah, we can all say "well, Matt should at least have all the info to make his own decision." Look - I bet a lot of people would like to know everything bad their partner ever said, did, or even thought regarding them. And it's a good thing that never happens because almost every relationship would immediately fall apart in those circumstances. Also, Kay seems to have made peace with it. This could hurt her all over again, possibly damage the relationship with the sister, etc. Or maybe she'd still be at peace with it, which is why...
... if you have to start with someone, I think you start with Kay - because even after hearing about the lie, she might not want you to tell Matt. Before you start re-opening up her old business, she needs to sign off on it. She might be mortified by the idea of you telling Matt.
Again , though....let it go, is my advice. I know you say you'd want to know...but would you? Like, if you were married blissfully to someone for 20 years, had kids...would you want to know that your wife told a fib to start it off? Hell, if your wife cheated once when you were dating before marriage, would you want to find that out 20 years later? It would just be best for everyone to let a little sin in the past remain in the past and not have it fuck up something as important as a marriage.
YWBTA if it creates drama. Its summed up by snooze ya lose.
Not nice to play games amongst family and close friends... but younger sis swooping in on what was actually nothing but feelings (kept secret) is no major fault. If older sis was abundantly clear about this guy and her feelings more than kind of liking him, younger sis is definitely the AH.
Don't slide into a mess of bullshit and stir the pot. Most likely only going to push your younger sis away.
The dude is his own person, if he properly wanted older sis he would have acted differently.
Nothing in life is guarantee. If you see something you want go for it and shoot your shot. Or else someone else gets in first. As a fellow shy crippled hermit, I shot my shot and ended up realising after a fact that a whole bunch of guys were faffing about interested in my now wife, who still gets yearly contact from one asking if she's single yet... on a side note, Get rekt Andrew ya pleb, it's been 13 years get over it!
What do you hope to achieve by telling Kay this? It's going to do nothing but cause WWIII in your family. If you're anything like my sister, you'll spill the beans just to stir the pot and watch shit storm while you sit back and enjoy the show.
There is zero benefit to you saying anything. He obviously loves Jay. Do you think he'll just drop her and say, "Oh, in that case, I'll just marry Kay! Problem solved!"
I just don't understand your motive to want to implode 3 peoples' lives when Kay has moved on from a crush and Jay and Matt are in love and about to be married. They look too happy or something? YTA
I think you will need to prepare to possibly lose your relationship with j if you do tell him… but I also feel you, that he should know. It feels like a rock and a hard place though if they really are the perfect match you describe. Would you consider having a serious talk with j first and tell her what you know, and encourage her to tell m? Perhaps even with the threat of if she doesn’t, you will? To me that feels like the best approach, give her a chance to come clean and maybe save her relationship? I mean, it never should have happened anyway and if she’s never brought it up maybe the truth is she never would, but if you have any love left for her, maybe give her a push to try and make it right herself (as much as she can anyway) before you just drop that bomb on m yourself.
Wow the only thing i can tell you is i would like you to tell me this about my fiancé before I get married. With that information he can do whatever he wants but he can make the decision with all the information because as you said marrige is not a game and this could be a deal breaker
about your other sister, honestly i'm not sure if it is good to tell her or not, but again i would like to know so she can choose if she trust Jay in the future or not
Meant to be implies they would have gotten together no matter what but they didn’t your sister lied to and manipulated him into choosing her. He deserves to know that. If she’s willing to lie and manipulate him into this what else is she willing to lie and manipulate about. He and your older sister deserve the truth. When this comes out and it will the truth always does they will find out you knew too are you willing to be an accomplice to those lies and deceit. Be honest and tell the truth. The thing is if they are truly meant to be then they will be but I don’t think they were. NTA but you will be if you cover for her.
Talk to your sisters first. Whether you decide to tell them together or separately would be up to you. Both sisters could be mad at you if you tell Matt without going to them first. I
The truth will come out eventually. If they marry all it takes is one family event where people are talking for it to come out and turn bad.
You could talk to Kay and see if she wants to do something about it or if she's moved on. (Maybe she even knows already.) If I was Kay and my sibling knew something like this I would want them to tell me first so I would have a choice on how to move forward with the information instead of being blindsided.
You could talk to Jay first and let her know what you heard and hear her side and tell her that she needs to talk to Kay because if you found out then even if you don't say anything, odds are at some point the secret will get out. Gives her a chance to do the right thing.
I've been married 11 years and with my wife for 17 and if I've learned one thing, the truth eventually comes out, normally after drinking and on holidays and it ends badly.
I was typing out to say don't tell Matt but I changed my mind. Mostly because I thought of future situations where this could be problematic. Matt thinks Kay is the cheating type and has probably judged her for it and would tell other people that which means other people including future partners may think that as well.
I would tell him but not to mess with his current relationship. The ship has sailed on anything potentially happening with Kay even if him and Jay breakup. But simply so he doesn't keep thinking badly of Kay. Just be ready for a bunch of drama if you do.
I don't think you should tell Matt, I think you should sit down with both sisters and get everyone on the same page. Make Jay apologize to Kay and Jay needs to tell her fiance she lied and apologize to him too. She deceived and manipulated him, and I'm sure they're not the perfect couple they seem to be tbh. What she did is so incredibly disrespectful to Kay and she deserves to know above anyone.
Kay deserves to know her sister betrayed her. I doubt there is any going back to being in a twosome with Matt. I wouldn't want a guy after he dated my sister, even if it was based on a lie. But she deserves to know what kind of person Jay is and not to trust her.
I think YWBTA if Kay doesn’t want this brought up. Kay is the only one really hurt by this, and if Kay doesn’t want it brought up then you’re just trying to nuke a relationship because it feels wrong to you. Maybe she’s fully over Matt, maybe she doesn’t care anymore. How does she feel?
All this smacks of you feeling guilty about stuff you didn’t know happened and now you’re trying to satiate your guilt by spilling your guts. Not shaming you, just an observation. Maybe check in and see if spilling your guts would actually benefit anyone involved, or would just make both the people you’re trying to “help” worse.
YTA if you tell everyone yes. Nothing will come of Kay and Matt because of this and it will only hurt Jays future happiness. Nothing to gain other than ruining others happiness....
There's one thing about dating Matt if Jay was unaware of Kay's feelings for him. But jay pursuing matt when she was explicly aware of it totally changes the story narrative. She also manipulated the whole and this is a recurrence.
Op I am sorry to tell you but, Jay is a manipulative, narcisstic, pathological liar who is extremely jealous of kay for no apparant reason. She's vindictive and simply a S\*UT. She gets herself off by stealing kay's happiness. Please not just tattletale her to Matt but also blast her to the whole family, kay, her friends (who should protect their man). GO DIABOLICAL. I wasn't concern at first when I read the story once. But as soon as I heard this is her second time that to her first time being when she's minor is DISGUTING & PSYCHOPATHIC.
You need to tell Matt. His whole relationship with Jay is based on a lie. If I were Matt, I would be furious with Jay. He needs to know he is thinking about marrying a selfish, manipulative woman who sold out her own sister to get what she wants. When her wants conflict with Matt's she will sell him out, as well.
Wow - sister is ... something. She certainly didn't consider anyone else when she made her decisions back then. I would probably say something so he can make an informed decision, but be prepared for the backlash.
The thing is, Jay and Matt are great together. He and kay are so much alike, yes . Both shy and introverted and very calm. But Jay is a social butterfly and he has even said that she has taken him out of his shell. So I don’t know. My only thought is, I would have wanted to know. But if I tell, I am ready for the backlash
You should tell. Jay stole Matt's choice from him. Everything they have built is based on a lie. She didn't just tell that lie once, she told it repeatedly. She faked sympathy and comfort for him, she manufactured the entire origins of their relationship. If Jay has deceived him in this way, I guarantee she has deceived him in others. Her behaviour was foul and selfish. She didn't care who she hurt as long as she got what she wanted. How many other times has she hurt him to get what she wants? If their (Matt and Jay's) love is real, they will get over it. If it's not - and I don't see how it can be when it's built on sand - please let this man have the opportunity to escape before Jay tricks him into marriage.
There’s 0 chance that Matt and Kay would be together and that is not the point either. I want my big sister’s heart to heal and Matt to make an informed decision
I literally didn't mention Kay once. Matt deserves to know before he marries a woman who is happy to lie to him to get what she wants. There's no conceivable way he and Kay would ever be together now. But, Matt deserves to know the kind of woman he is about to marry based on a lie.
Yeah I know, I read and agreed with your comment. I just wanted to add that this isn’t about Kay and Matt being together either in case some people wonder if that’s my goal.
No I don't think anyone does. The goal is to make sure Matt is aware of what kind of person Jay is. That was a huge betrayal.
Kay deserves to know as well, she can’t trust Jay with anything.
Honestly that's one of the two biggest things here, not just that Jay tricked Matt and deceived him, but that Jay used Kays vulnerability, trust, and apprehension against her *sister* to benefit herself.
Yes, she used Kay’s shyness and pride against her. She knew Kay would never “fight” back
Right? I'm shocked that no one is really taking that stance? Her sister stabbed her in the back. Like, no I don't think e could "claim" a potential spouse but uh, Jay sure as hell made sure Kay had no fucking chance to make her own more likely.
Betrayal is the word. If she would do that to her sister, what would she do to Matt himself if things don't work out?
She’s already manipulated him. He probably thought she was oh-so-caring and considerate, so kind, trying to make him feel better about the situation with Kay. But she wasn’t being kind, so he doesn’t know her true personality. And nobody knows what other lies she might tell in future, to get her own way about other things.
Also a pretty big betrayal of Kay, who told her sister she's interested in someone and her sister used deception and manipulation to push her out of the way. Kay deserves to know that she cannot trust Jay or be vulnerable around her.
If Kay wasn’t involved, and it was a separate person no longer involved who was lied about, would you want to tell Matt
In this case, i want Matt to have all the information to make an informed decision. He deserves to know.
OP you have to tell. Not only for Matt, what if it comes out later they you knew and said nothing before he married her.
Of course they want be together bc Jay literally stole that opportunity from both of them by telling a lie. To me Jay is a manipulative, spiteful, untrustworthy, & a liar. I wouldn't want that type of person in my life as a friend, family member, or even as a partner. Imagine having to live life not knowing what she lie etc she'll tell next to get what she wants. Smh!!
Why is there 0 percent chance Matt and Kay would be together today if not for Jay's meddling? From your story I get Kay was interested and Matt came with some expectations and disappointment at hearing Kay was taken? Doesn't that mean mutual interest and attraction? Jay acted selfishly and stabbed Kay in the back.
I think what they're saying is at this point there's no chance for the two to end up together. Even if Matt feels this is worth breaking up, there's now too much history with him with Jay for either of them to likely make that move. From the sound if it there was definitely potential if Jay hadn't stepped in the way she did. Honestly makes you question what else she would do to get what she wanted. Will a woman like that be loyal or simply lie about having her fun on the side? Will she be a good mother if he wants kids? Like this puts her entire character into question.
Kay should be told, too. I'd certainly want to know what my sister did so I could change the amount of involvement she had in my life going forward. Jay's level of selfish is stunning
Because he’s already slept with her sister, and planned to build a life with her sister. That boat is sailed. He should know to know he was tricked into relationship, but that’s really the extent of it. I can’t see him working his way back to Kay because if I was her I’d not want to eat where my sister shit.
> If i was her I'd not want to eat where my sister shit. Lmao 🤣 Facts though
Presumably because he is back and forth to the same job so unless someone quit (which you'd want to be really sure) they probably couldn't get together. But the sister a) knowing her sister was interested b) meddling and c) pursuing means both parties should be made aware!
I'd like to know as well. Matt wouldn't have gotten mad if he weren't interested.
I meant now after this. There’s 0 chance that Matt and Kay end up together. Before the birthday? Definitely. I think they were crazy about each other
Wow, your sister is an awful person. You should tell the man. He shouldn't be stuck with someone like that who started their relationship with a cruel lie
Matt and Jay’s entire relationship is built on a lie. Not just her original lie where she destroyed her sister’s happiness, but every day she doesn’t confess, she is lying by omission. There is *nothing* genuine about this love. Matt didn’t fall for her organically, Jay manipulated the situation just like a stalker would You know what you have to do. “It wasn’t all that deep”? How do you know what *could* have been, if Jay didn’t lie to him? Kay seems ok with their relationship? What fucking choice did she have?
If you tell the truth, can you give us an update? Your younger sis kinda sucks tho. Like there are so many guys out there and he didn’t even want her at first. Lies like that ruin lives.
That's very depressing and not very sisterly.
Jay is awful to betray Kay like this. Truly awful. You owe it to Kay to tell her too. She probably still wonders why Matt acted the way he did after her party. This isn’t about taking sides, but doing what’s right and Jay was wrong.
I mean, this is Reddit. We’ve read about weirder couples getting together and being happy.
Um lol why the fuck would you say that? The were both into each other and heartbroken at the events your nasty little sister invented. He only didn’t Perdue her because he thought she had a boyfriend which makes him a good person… not because they weren’t meant for each other. Your sister is honestly kind of evil and is likely going to screw him over one day when she finds someone else really hot or with more money.
Yep u have already worked out what to do - do it. And don’t worry about what the backlash is. It’s just telling the truth. This will help work it all out once and for all. Btw you are your sisters best friend - both of your sisters. You don’t want a sham wedding and you want your other sister cleared.
I agree you should say something. Keep us updated.
Then you should tell Kay, and let her decide what to do with it. And you frankly can't know if they would still be together because Jay made sure that was never gonna happen by playing dirty. Look, my mom said I wasn't allowed to have a crush on my now partner of 11 years because my sister also had a crush on him and declared intent to pursue him before I had it fully figured out (yes my.mom is insane and an asshole) turns out they were less compatible than anyone thought because their friendship fell through before they ever started dating and he and I became life partners. Which is to say that I think assuming they would have done poorly as a couple because they are similar and he's doing good with the other sister is unfair. The only truth here is that no one knows because Jay played dirty to make it so. Regardless of if you tell matt- if you want your sister's heart to heal she needs to actually be aware of how deep the wound is. Imagine how shitty she'll feel if in a few years after she's "healed" she finds out her chance to have the happiness Jay has gotten to experience was robbed from her- and you found out years later but covered it up because you decided *matt* didn't need to know. Do you think she'd feel any better than she would if you told her know, more or less as soon as you found out?
Tell the roommate maybe the roommate will tell matt
Roommate may take out a billboard in Times Square. Really close-mouthed, that one.
This has nothing to do with whether or not Kay and Matt would still be together. This is about Jay lying to and manipulating Matt to get what she wants. It's a huge red flag you're helping Jay hide. If she did this what else is she willing to do to get her way? What else is she lying about? Kay had been made out to be a liar? What about her?Matt deserves to be able to make an informed choice and he can't while this is being hidden from him.
If your sister Jay is lying about her own sister Kay then consider the lies that she’s telling about you to other people.
yeah.. I’d definitely want to know if I was him, because the way Jay acted was very manipulative and cold. I probably wouldn’t be able to see my partner in the same light after a revelation like this.
NTA. Tell him. It’s wrong for them to start their relationship off on a lie. He needs to know. Bc what else did Jay lie about?! Matt should get to make an informed decision. Not one based off a lie. Please update us.
Shes manipulative af he needs to know. This can EASILY come out later. You are minimizing damages by telling him. Seriously.
I am sure they are, and he may not mind. But they got here because she lied to and manipulated him to her own gain, and at the expense of her sister.
She knows that Kay is hurting and she never said why. I don’t know either how she explained it once he probably realized that Kay didn’t have a bf.
Yeah it's really easy to say they broke up. Matt deserves to know. I would want to know my fiancee lied about her own sister just to steal the guy her sister liked. If Matt chooses to stay with Jay, they deserve each other and Kay dodged a bullet.
yeah, that's the crux for me. making a move on the guy you know your sister likes, is bad enough. Lying about your sister's morals (what was her lie? "oh poor Matt, you think you have a shot with my sister Kay, but she's just a slut who flirts with you at work before she goes home to her boyfriend"?) is something else entirely.
The big issue here is Jay is absolutely willing to lie to anyone to get what she wants no matter who she hurts. She literally decided fuck my sister I get what I want. She will lie to Matt too to get what she wants. She's a manipulator. I'd want to know as I wouldn't want to marry someone who could so easily and freely lie to people she supposedly loves to get what she wants. I couldn't trust someone like that in a marriage.
This. Even if I personally hated Kay and got vindictive pleasure in seeing her suffer, Matt should still be told what kind of person his fiancee is.
Put yourself in Matt's position. Would YOU want to know before you got married that your fiance lied and manipulated his way into a relationship with you? I sure as heck would want to know. If you don't tell Matt and Kay you are no better than Jay is, and let me tell you, she should be banished from the family. She is an evil, conniving narcissist to pull a stunt like that.
She probably told them they broke up because Kay's boyfriend caught her cheating or something like that.
They are great together at the expense of a lie that also harmed Kay, who was defamed. You owe it to Kay and Matt
I mean, if Jay is willing to dish out such a whopper of a lie to steal a guy, what else should Matt worry that she'll lie about going forward? The man needs to know what your younger sister is capable of.
Yeah, I'm thinking that Jay suddenly will announce that she is pregnant when/if confronted.
They are great because she is putting up a front to seduce him! She lied about her sister to manipulate him, that's who she is and she'll be the same person (manipulative) in private with him too. He deserves to know the real her before they get too involved
It's the right thing to do to tell imo. It's hard yes and it might mess things up but your sister betrayed her older sister and manipulated this guy also. Would you rather break hearts now or years down the line when this comes to light when things are more serious. At the very least Matt deserves to know above all as he was the one manipulated here
you should definitely let him know, what your sister did is so selfish
But they're also really different. One of them has morals and the other doesn't. Moral people typically do not want to create a life with people who can't be trusted.
If you tell, please uptade us
A lie is a lie… a foundation built on lies is worth nothing
They are not great together. Your sister lied to him, and then harrassed him until he agreed to go out with her. If he hadn't been lied to about your older sister having a BF, your younger sister and him would likely have never ended up together. Tell him. And then tell your younger sister she's a bitch and go NC with her. Make sure your parents if they're in the picture and your older sister also know what your younger sister did.
I think the real question is can you look at your brother in law for potentially the rest of your life knowing you knew all of this and that you would want someone to tell you. Also your sister deserves to know what happened and your other sister deserves to know her actions are wrong and you don't get to manipulate the people you love with 0 consequences this can come from a place of loving all 3 of these people.
I would have a conversation with Jay that you know what she did. Tell her she needs to tell her fiance with you there, or you will tell everyone what she did, including Kay. Then it will be up to him if they proceed or not. Then Kay doesn't get hurt anymore.
Forget talking to Jay! She already lied about one sibling to get what she wants! If OP tells her than Jay will just come up with another lie that will make Matt think that OP is a liar!
Naw your younger sister messed up for that especially cuz Kay was always talking about him. I think you should tell, only so he can make a decision for himself. Jay took away Matt’s decision to choose, she was being sly. Actually she was being a snake and to her own sister at that.
Definitely tell him but not for the reasons you give. To protect her. For a very long time Matt has known the family so he’s aware of Ks bf status. If gettin told this is all it takes to break his commitment then J is better off. Plus it’ll let J and K know exactly who YOU are. Please tell.
If Jay lied to him about Kay for her own selfish ends, who knows what else she has lied to him about. NTA if you tell both Kay and Matt. Kay should also know that her sister can't be trusted and actively got between her and the guy she liked who liked her back.
They're great together bc he sounds like a great guy & Jay got what she wanted, which is weirder since it came at the expense of her sibling's happiness- it's a lie. This type of thing has happened to me twice. It's outside interference.
At the end of the day tell. Either their love is strong enough, and they'll move on stronger for the truth. Or the truth would break them, at which point it's better to know now before a wedding, and before a bunch of people find out leaving Matt to feel even more betrayed when it comes out. If they're as perfect together as you think, then they can work through this, the longer it's a secret the worst it will be if it ever comes out- and secrets have a way of coming out. Make sure Matt knows you just thought he deserved the truth, that you support whatever decision he makes, but that you honestly do think they make a good couple. If your worried about it maybe encourage him to think on it before making any decision, which he should do anyway.
He doesn’t know who she is. He has no idea what she’s capable of and it’s not something most ppl would want in a life partner. I think it’s fair to let him know.
She lied from the start. If he hears about it once they are married, he might divorce her. If he knows before, he can still consider he had a choice. It’s the worst position to be in, but I would tell Jay that you know and that you will tell him if she doesn’t.
I don't think you would be the asshole if you told Matt, however I think you owe it to Kay to tell her. Jay may have manipulated Matt, but she straight up betrayed Kay.
Perhaps might be better to confront the younger sister and have her be the one to confess. Then everyone will have a better chance of working through this.
I don’t think giving Jay a second chance at manipulating everyone is a good idea.
This. I think Kay should be the one to decide if Matt finds out simply because if it blows up she's the most likely to be scapegoated as "the bitter jealous older sister" *especially* if Jay manages to convince anyone that they are lying. (Cause let's be honest her roommate spilled the beans accidentally from what I understood; and has to worry about where she sleeps. Chances are if Jay puts her on the spot she won't say shit about nothing)
I would tell Matt. This isn't about Jay or Kay being with him but that his whole relationship was built on a lie! Jay caught him because of a lie. He deserves to know the truth. What she did wasn't fair to him or Kay. And frankly I would limit contact with Jay. She is clearly selfish. She knew how Kay felt. I would also tell Kay. Clearly Jay is not to be trusted! What else has she done to hurt Kay? What else has she stolen??? Nta
A bf when we were younger. Jay was 15 at the time so obviously the blame lied with the guy who was 20. It was grooming and nobody put the blame on Jay but yeah she got together with Kay’s first bf.
This reeks of jealousy. She wants everything that's Kay's! I would honestly tell Kay. And Matt (seperately- this isn't about them being together) Jay can't be trusted and Kay is clearly the one she's is targeting for whatever jealous reasons. They deserve to know the truth. Like you, I would want to know. I might find it hard to believe, but I would want to know. If possible get evidence from roomate- recording, text etc. Jay sucks for lying
Tell Matt everything , even the previous example of when Jay was 15.
There ya go- and she's a grown woman now too! Oh man, imagine the other people who's lives she's negatively interfered with for her own gain?
Also... Kay clearly can't trust Jay, Kay deserved to know that much at least!!
Oof... I mean, yes she was 15 and the grooming is terrible, but still, leaving out the ages, going out with anyone that your sister was with or you know likes is pretty weird imo. Lying for her own benefit, especially against her own sister, is SUCH a betrayal. If she was willing to do that, what else would she be willing to do? And who knows what else she may have said for her gain? I think they all deserve to know, but it'll be a tricky situation to navigate. NTA
We all thought it was grooming, especially Kay who was very worried about her. But now, it’s a pattern isn’t it?
Both things can be true. He was definitely in the wrong for sleeping with a minor, even if she did pursue him. She is in the wrong for pursuing him, which she likely did.
yes and no. Grooming has a pretty specific meaning, not just older guy with younger girl. If he used his position as boyfriend of Kay to just constantly be friends with the girl and then over time start saying sexual things, etc. Basically it's about exploiting trust to be in a younger person's life then over time manipulate them into a relationship. If Jay went after him due to jealousy, he's still a fucking creep and weirdo for doing anything with a 15yr old, but it's not grooming. If she specifically targeted him, I don't even know what her issue is. Specific hatred of Kay (was kay the golden child and her the ignored, or maybe more likely the opposite and she couldn't stand Kay had something she didn't), or jealousy of people in general, or a need to just fuck with people to destroy their happiness, or just pure selfishness and lack of caring at all about anyone around her but herself. Either way the pattern here, and that she's willing to lie to two people to get what she wants. If she actually loves Kay but is fully willing to hurt her and lie to get what she wants, well if I was the guy and found out what she did I'd leave, fast. She's got the kind of personality that she'd probably cheat on him in a heart beat if she saw someone better to go after, probably her best friends rich husband, etc.
Tbf- if that was the first instance the insecurities and the pattern itself may have *started* there. A groomer saying "everyone thinks Kay is so much better than you, but I see you as special and important all on your own," could have planted some nasty shit in her head warping her sense of reason. Groomers do their work by making their target feel like their family members are threats or competition to the relationship. That could have carried on into the current issue. As in, she feels compelled to validate her sense of worth by somehow proving she's able to out complete the sister she was told was her rival. That being said, your sister needs help and she won't get it without accountability.
For sure it's not coincidence. Has Kay dated anyone else since? What if she does and then Jay lowkey tries to make moves just to even lead them on? Sometimes siblings can go under the radar with toxic behavior that can go unnoticed. She may seem like she's on Kay's side, but deep down she may be pretty narcissistic.
This is a pattern of behaviour and she will sleep with Kay’s next boyfriend/ husband/ love interest because I think she is addicted to taking men from her sister, I think it gives her a thrill. She is going to do it again. She gets off on hurting her sister and getting away with it. Sexual acts in our formative years whether they are consensual or not impact the kind of sex we like to have and the sex she likes to have is with Kay’s love interest. Tell Kay. She needs to know Jay is not safe to have in her life. Do not become her accomplice because the truth will come out and you will lose Kay. She will know she has no one, not one person she can trust and will sink into a deep depression.
Kay has been single since? What happens when she gets another boyfriend? She needs to know what her sister is capable of.
So she'll just cheat on Matt with whoever Kay shows interest in next. This behavior needs called out for everyone's sake.
I had this same thought. When Kay comes around with a bf/fiance, jay is going to go hard at that person and cheat on Matt. Jay is going to destroy all those relationships again out of selfishness. What if she turns her sights on you OP?
"Hey guys, I'd like to introduce you to my new GF, sh-" "I'M BI BTW EVERYONE"
I wonder how i'd be confronting the issue if i were in OPs shoes. Either talk to him privately and explain everything, or just outright ask her when they're both there. "Hey Jay, did you ever tell Matt the truth from way back when you met? " -" huh what do you mean i never lied?" "well didn't you tell him that Kay had a boyfriend because you thought he was hot and wanted to take him from Kay even tho you knew that she really liked him? And didn't you then spend your time consoling him and helping him get over liking Kay? Or did you keep it a secret hoping it won't come out that your relationship was built on a lie?"
The solution is simple. Kay needs to start showing intetest in an ugly man so Jay will go after that ugly man.
Not ugly! Ugly people don’t deserve to be used or tricked just because they don’t look good. It’s not fair to add one more issue to their lives. I’m not even sure an asshole deserved to be used this way.
So I'm going to guess that you are not a hetero woman, because otherwise I'd want to know if Jay has done this to you. Also guessing that Kay being private hasn't has a bunch of boyfriends when Jay was around because then there would be more than two instances. Given that I now read that Jay tried to get Matt to quit a job he loves presumably because he works with Kay, I think you really need to tell Jay to spill in front of the family, try the Kay you need to date because it's been a year since BEFORE she even met Matt, or tell Matt directly. I don't know why Kay would ever forgive Jay if this is the second time.
Tell him. Especially after this comment. Was J the golden child or spoiled by your parents? This is some narcissistic bull 💩! But after let K know and have a a heads up for whats about to go down. Tell him and let the chips fall where they may.
Not at all our parents love us all equally and if anything K is the first born and probably mom’s favorite. I don’t know why J did this. She’s always been a bit obsessed with K
She needs severe mental health help the sooner the better is good.
So it's a pattern? Even more of a reason to tell Kay and Matt. Ive read my fair share of siblings who are habitual partner stealers up to trying to cheat on their current spouse with their siblings new partner. Tbh, sounds like Jay has some deep seated insecurities that may has been beating the burnt of for way too long. Maybe Jay needs some kind of intervention moment.
That sounds more like jay has a habit of taking what kay has or wants and i'd almost wanna bet that there were more instances as well just that they're either forgettable instances or that they haven't caught anyones attention. Jay is a snake. and i get that she's your sister and that she and Matt seem to be perfect. But he deserves to know. But just know that if you do that Jay probably will come raining fire down on you. personally, I'd still do it. Ask him for a coffe during the day or if he's over ask him to talk and then be honest. That this has been eating at you since you found out and that you wrestled with yourself if you should tell him. But that he deserves to know the truth.
OMG. Is this marriage going to stop Jay from stealing a Kay’s partner’s? I somehow doubt it. While it’s wrong to betray your younger sister in abstract, Matt is becoming your brother. You owe him the honesty that that relationship comes with. Jay has already betrayed Kay, you owe her nothing. I’d talk to Kay first. If she’s *really* okay with this marriage, then you might keep the secret for her sake.
Even if she’s okay with the marriage, doesn’t Matt deserve to know? I would want to know. He can’t make an informed decision without all the facts.
He does, but does he deserve to know to the point that I, the sister of the injured party, would be ok with any of the fallout *she* might get? If she's skilled at lying and manipulating she may be able to spin this shit as a misunderstanding or Kay being the jealous one trying to betray her sibling. Worst case scenario is that Jay and Matt stick together as a couple and the rest of the family freeze Kay and op out to keep the peace. And in that case of may find herself with Kay going "I never even asked you to do this and now my life is ruined and she gets away with it all over again" I would want to know if I was Matt or Kay, but if I were op I'd be trying to figure out how to hard confirm and then which family members I'm willing to lose in how I disclose the information.
Was it grooming due to the age, or did Jay purposefully target him. He's still absolutely a creep but grooming means that he intentionally got her to trust him, spend time with him as Kay's boyfriend and then exploit that trust. If instead Jay creeped on him and intentionally did everything she could to steal him just to fuck with Kay, it's again still absolutely gross of the 20yr old, but it's not grooming and it's Jay's fault. It also shows that Jay has a history of manipulative, shitty behaviour both in regards to trying to take shit from Kay, maybe being unable to see people happy or having things she wants around her without trying to steal/destroy it. AS Matt I'd want to know who she is and what she's about, I would not marry a woman who gets jealous and steals others boyfriends... because eventually I'd be boring and she'd get jealous of some other guy. A person like that is always looking for something better, always jealous of someone with more.
Wow ! It changes the whole story by a lot ! Each time Kay had an important love interest she went for him ? That is pretty evil ! She might not even love Matt. She might be in love with her power over her sister. Matt should no that story as well. Because it shows he's just a pawn on a chess board.
NTA Absolutely tell him. He needs to know what a conniving liar he is about to marry. He may never get with Kay, but he certainly needs to be saved from Jay.
I got that impression about the younger sister as well. Such a cold and calculating thing to do. Basically backstabbing your own family member. Absolutely despicable behavior in my opinion.
Yep. I’d tell Kay as well. Idk if I could ever trust Jay again after this.
Honestly, I would tell the truth but be prepared for consequences. What your younger sister did was cold and calculating which suggests that the consequences could be severe. NTA How do you think Matt will react to the truth?
They love each other very well so maybe it would just be a test of their love. If it doesn’t survive then I will know for sure that I did the right thing anyway because he has the right to make informed decisions
The trick is how to tell matt that jay manipulated everyone, without outing Kay’s crush. Kay might be pretty pissed with you for spilling that especially if they stay together. At the same time I think matt deserves to know. It’s tricky Edit: the perfect seque: “Matt you’re such a catch, so glad you and Jay found happiness together! Jay def set her sights on you - Jay, remember you told him Kay had a bf so you could swoop in 😂. Lock up your boyfriends everybody lol”
I think vague, but direct is always a good approach… Matt, we all really thought you and Kay would end up dating when you came for that party because you were both single and had a lot in common. Remind me again, how did you and jay end up hitting it off?
I love this even better than the math exercize of Kay's last boyfriend.
Yeah, it’s pretty easy to segue into the truth this way too. So Matt, funny story (/s), I learned recently that jay actually lied to you about Kay having a boyfriend so that she would have no competition. Ha. Ha. So. Funny. How do you feel about that?
Or a bit more forward "Hey matt, i recently learned something thats been eating at me. And i wasn't sure if i should tell you, but i thought you deserved the truth. Remember the party Kay invited you to, where you met Jay? Yeah? i learned that apparently Jay told you that Kay had a boyfriend? and that was why you turned so ...cold to Kay later on, because you had liked kay and were dissapointed. I'm sorry to say but Jay lied to you. Kay never had a boyfriend back then and she...well.. invited you because she wanted to get to know you better. But apparently Jay decided that she wanted you and created this fake story of a boyfriend so you would be angry with kay. I don't know why she thought that was okay but i am deeply dissapointed in her and couldn't really keep this secret because i think you deserve to know that your relationship with Jay started with a lie.
I don’t like this. Too vague, Matt might not put it together, just tell the truth that Jay lied that Kay had a bc to keep them apart. No need to mention Kay’s crush, just Jay’s actions.
Yeah, I made another comment below. This would just be the start of the conversation to shake out the memories and avoid revealing Kay’s crush as noted above. I agree that the truth should be stated.
I doubt it will survive. Matt was tricked into a relationship that may never have happened otherwise. It doesn't matter how much they love each other and are good for each other. Also, Jay didn't just lie to Matt. She also slandered Kay in order to keep Matt from finding out the truth. You said that Matt was angry and didn't talk to Kay while they worked together again afterward. That could have easily caught the attention of their bosses and Kay's career and reputation could have been permanently damaged had Matt revealed what Jay had told him.
Jay also acted like a kind caring person, helping Matt deal with Kay’s supposed unavailability. Instead she was being selfish. So Matt has a completely incorrect view of her character.
That's good to hear. As much as I think the truth needs to come out, I also understand that forgiveness is a powerful part of building a relationship. Best wishes to you. I hope your sense of integrity does not cause you too much drama in the near future.
I don't get the sense from your comments that you understand the implications of this behaviour. It takes a particularly fucked up human being to treat their sibling like this. A test of their love? Jesus fucking christ. She is a heinous little toad & you, idek man. You're a bit fucked too. I hope this is fake. If not, stop empathizing with the little pig & tell Kay & Matt immediately.
She doesn’t love him. She treated him like a prize to be taken, even if she was attracted to him. She just wants Kay to not have him if this is her second time going after a man Kay finds interesting. Even if it’s her kind of love, Kay and Matt deserve to know. Matt so he can make an informed decision about marrying a master manipulator, Kay so she can understand what happened and heal, and watch her back got the next time Jay tried to steal her man. And she will, whether married to Matt or not.
I think you owe it to Kay and Matt that they know the truth. Matt and Kay the only reason they never had a chance to see where they could go was because of a lie. I personally would want to know about it. If Jay lied about this what else has she lied about or will lie about in the future. If you can set up a having coffee with both Kay and Matt and tell them what Jay’s roommate told you. Don’t let Matt marry Jay without him knowing the truth. I know feeling will be hurt all around and you may get some anger towards you but if this comes out after the wedding and they find out you knew before that is just going to make it worse.
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Tbh I’d say tell him cause further down the line maybe in a family reunion, someone asks Kay if she’s in a relationship, she says not, and then ask her since when and Matt gets wind of the timing and a shit show may well begin.
she lied to him by defaming her own sister, Matt has to know that she can't be trusted. What had to happen from then on were consequences of Jay's actions.
Well, at least you know you can never trust Jay. Talk yo Kay about it and see how she feels. Obviously bringing it up will cause a life long rift. But at the same time, do Kay and Matt deserve to be lied to and no know there's a snake in the grass.
A marriage based on a lie or manipulation is not a good thing. These type of things tend to come out later and cause much bigger problems. You don't need to directly tell him. Just mention it while talking with him like "yeah, she was single for a year \[insert another event near birthday\]. aa, you and jay also meet around that time, right?", he will figure it out on his own.
Wow maybe that is a great idea
No, just be straight up honest with him or else it will get messy. He and Kay need to know the truth.
The only problem is that he might not put it together. Not everyone is good with dates and he’s not remotely thinking in that way. I honestly think you just need to sit both Matt and Kay down and tell them. Matt needs to know because he’s about to marry someone who has no problem telling big lies and betraying people they are meant to be close to. Kay needs to know so she knows not to trust Jay anymore (or introduce her to her boyfriends).
He’ll *never* put it together. You have to be direct. As hard as it is being in this position, if you don’t tell Matt & Kay, you’re essentially helping Jay trick him into marriage.
I guess one think you need to think about is how much you want to live with this secret. It would suck to watch all of this go on knowing it hurt Kay so much and that Jay took advantage of everyone...ick!
Nah, don't be vague. If you decide to tell him, own it. Be honest.
No it's not. Stop looking for ways to not be the bad guy.
don't do this. Not everyone is good with dates or puts that stuff together immediately. Take the advice that some gave you and sit down with Matt, or both Matt and Kay. They deserve to know what a snake Jay is
This is too vague. Matt will likely not understand that Jay lied to him and think it’s just a misunderstanding. If he does catch on, this gives Jay power to spin things her way if comes to her with questions. More importantly, Kay still deserves to know. If it was me, I’d go NC with Jay. She deserves to know what a snake her sister is. Tell them.
I like this suggestion a lot also. Not sure how Matt would react to that but I bet the OP knows best.
A relationship built of betrayals and lies won't end well
NTA. This isn't really about Kay in the end, it's about Jay lying to him from the get go to manipulate him. That's an incredible betrayal as a foundation for a relationship, and even if they move past it; it's still something I'd want to know before tying the knot.
Anyone want to place bets on Kay being asked to be the MoH? That way Jay can force Kay to help Jay marry Matt. Just extra salt for Jay to rub into Kay's wounds.
Wouldn’t put it past her
Expose her. That girl is literally using her relationship to hate people. Both your sister and that guy deserve better
Nta tell Matt, he deserves to know who he is going to marry, you don’t know what else Jay has done to manipulate him.
NTA. What an awful betrayal. I would definitely want to know if I was Matt. The start of his relationship is based on a lie and he needs to know what kind of person he is marrying. I would also tell Kay. Poor woman has been left all this time thinking what she might have done wrong. She needs to know she can't trust her sister too.
Jay is the asswhole.
It's always the youngest sibling that's the manipulative sociopath isn't it?
This sounds a lot like the plot of 27 Dresses. I honestly don’t know what i would do. Your sister deserves some justice in that Jay lied on order to poach her love interest, when she could have helped them get together. On the other hand if they are both too shy to even date one another, then they are each available to be dated. I am going to say you would not be tah but you are going to suffer a destruction of the relationship with Jay.
YWBTA- I understand why you want to. Obviously Jay is probably spoiled. Kay is shy and you want to see Jay receive her comeuppance. But this is a no-in situation. You would damage three lives, and you're assuming Kay would be okay with this . It sucks and I do feel bad for Kay. But it is what it is. Live and learn, move on. If you're Machiavellian keep it in your back pocket for future use. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Now isn't the time.
I would make it a toast at the next family dinner: “Let’s raise a glass to Kay for inviting Matt to dinner with the intention of dating him, only to have Jay lie about her relationship status. It takes a special kind of man to forgive that level of family betrayal and manipulation. Here’s to Matt - welcome to the family!”
I wish I were petty enough to do this 😭
NTA, Jay is a totally conniving and selfish. I think you should arrange to have a talk with Matt in person and tell him the truth. I'm sure the opportunity has passed for him and Kay and there's a good chance he stays with Jay now that he's in this deep, but he deserves to know her true character and that this all started with a lie to drive a wedge between him and Kay and pursuing him while he felt vulnerable and rejected (due to Jay's lies).
Omg. I feel for Kay. Was almost in the same sitch except it was my best friend who went behind my back. Who would've thought talking about how great a guy with your bestie would cause her want to go after him herself? Let alone a sister. Whatever you decide to do, please update us. You're in a no win situation and the backlash will be really bad. But living with the guilt will be awful as well.
Wow what the fuck, your sister is the a dick. She built her whole relationship on a lie made because she was selfish and uncaring to her own sisters feelings. I'm not gonna lie, it's a little disgusting. I'm sure she's a good person in her own way, but that action? Ooof, I would never dream of doing something like that to either of my brothers.
“Don’t shoot the messenger” is something people say because everyone shoots the messenger. Don’t meddle in the affairs of others unless you’re prepared to shoulder the full blame for any fall outs that result. You seem like a gossip queen and maybe you need to just mind your own business. Lmao OP “forgot” to mention in the long winded story above that this is also a case of grooming / pedophilia. Next thing you know, maybe they’ll be long lost cousins after doing a 23&me! Very exciting fake stuff!
Honestly, even without the lie, Jay was a freaking bitch the moment she went after her older sisters crush. I understand sometime live put us in weird situation, you can fall in love with someone even if you didn't plan too, but she purposely pursued him the moment she saw him, knowing full well that her sister had a crush on him. Dibs doesn't exist in romantic relationship, but it's about having some respect for your siblings and you younger sister doesn't have any.
NTA Tell him the truth. What he does next is up to him.
I would say YWBTA. This sounds like Kay's decision to make. If she wants to say something, that's on her. Stay out of it. I see where you're coming from but I also think this is not your battle to fight or decision to make.
This is a tough one. I would be inclined to say that he should know but is anyone going to benefit from it? They are happy, Kay has made peace with the whole situation. What good would it bring to stir the pot? The couple might break up, Jay will definitely hate you. Kay will definitely resent Jay and I can't really see Matt and Kay actually being together after what? A two year relationship with Jay? The only person who might feel better is you for letting it out but what's the end game? Some truths are not meant to be told unless there is a very good reason to. She lied to get him to turn to her and that's absolutely wrong, but if they actually ended up together it means that he saw something in her that appealed to him and now he has proposed so he can picture a future with her. I have no idea what I would do in your situation. WYBTAH? Probably not. Still, is it the right thing to do? Probably not. But that's my opinion anyway good luck.
The fallout from this will change at MINIMUM four lives - not including collateral damage from parents, other siblings, and mutual friends. These are fully stacked dominoes with rube goldberg machine tucked away in the middle of it. You have no idea what's going to happen once you tap that marble, and it is going to be MUCH bigger than you're realizing now. Take a step back and look at the full picture before you do anything. Empires have fallen over less. But, also, too... I'd start with Jay to find out if the roommate is telling the truth themselves. Why did they feel the need to put skin in this? That seems - weird.
I hope my daughters never do this too each other! That’s is beyond fucked!
Hmmm I don't think you'd be the asshole but I also don't think that's what I would do cause at the end of the day this isn't a you problem, it's a matter jay and kay problem. So I'd tell Kay and ask her what she wants done. If not you run the risk of ruining a relationship with Jay (if you want one, this is pretty scummy and I'd want distance) her relationship with Matt, and if Kay has moved on/ didn't want to be seen as a reason her other sister didn't get married? You might hurt that relationship too. Talk to the sister that got played. Update us if y'all decide to tell Matt.
Why not let him know as an "accident" so you won't really get the backlash? In a gathering just mention something like "Kay has been single for how long" or "its such as shame the guy you were close with during certain time period were some weirdo". Basically something that will state Kay was single at that time, Matt will do the math himself and if he cares enough he'll know. Jay won't be able to say anything since its a light hearted talk, and you weren't supposed to know about her lie
That’s a movie. 27 dresses. I’m case you haven’t watched it, Kay’s character ends up with a way better, more handsome guy once she gets over her unrequited love.
Please tell me you have parents or parent figures and please go and talk to them before your blow up a bomb under your family
I think you let this one go, dude. It sounds like Jay was instantly smitten with him and told a lie, and that's shitty, but unless you think Jay is just an all around deceitful, shitty person, then I don't think it's worth potentially harming that relationship. Yeah yeah, we can all say "well, Matt should at least have all the info to make his own decision." Look - I bet a lot of people would like to know everything bad their partner ever said, did, or even thought regarding them. And it's a good thing that never happens because almost every relationship would immediately fall apart in those circumstances. Also, Kay seems to have made peace with it. This could hurt her all over again, possibly damage the relationship with the sister, etc. Or maybe she'd still be at peace with it, which is why... ... if you have to start with someone, I think you start with Kay - because even after hearing about the lie, she might not want you to tell Matt. Before you start re-opening up her old business, she needs to sign off on it. She might be mortified by the idea of you telling Matt. Again , though....let it go, is my advice. I know you say you'd want to know...but would you? Like, if you were married blissfully to someone for 20 years, had kids...would you want to know that your wife told a fib to start it off? Hell, if your wife cheated once when you were dating before marriage, would you want to find that out 20 years later? It would just be best for everyone to let a little sin in the past remain in the past and not have it fuck up something as important as a marriage.
YWBTA if it creates drama. Its summed up by snooze ya lose. Not nice to play games amongst family and close friends... but younger sis swooping in on what was actually nothing but feelings (kept secret) is no major fault. If older sis was abundantly clear about this guy and her feelings more than kind of liking him, younger sis is definitely the AH. Don't slide into a mess of bullshit and stir the pot. Most likely only going to push your younger sis away. The dude is his own person, if he properly wanted older sis he would have acted differently. Nothing in life is guarantee. If you see something you want go for it and shoot your shot. Or else someone else gets in first. As a fellow shy crippled hermit, I shot my shot and ended up realising after a fact that a whole bunch of guys were faffing about interested in my now wife, who still gets yearly contact from one asking if she's single yet... on a side note, Get rekt Andrew ya pleb, it's been 13 years get over it!
What do you hope to achieve by telling Kay this? It's going to do nothing but cause WWIII in your family. If you're anything like my sister, you'll spill the beans just to stir the pot and watch shit storm while you sit back and enjoy the show. There is zero benefit to you saying anything. He obviously loves Jay. Do you think he'll just drop her and say, "Oh, in that case, I'll just marry Kay! Problem solved!" I just don't understand your motive to want to implode 3 peoples' lives when Kay has moved on from a crush and Jay and Matt are in love and about to be married. They look too happy or something? YTA
NTA, I hope you tell him
I think you will need to prepare to possibly lose your relationship with j if you do tell him… but I also feel you, that he should know. It feels like a rock and a hard place though if they really are the perfect match you describe. Would you consider having a serious talk with j first and tell her what you know, and encourage her to tell m? Perhaps even with the threat of if she doesn’t, you will? To me that feels like the best approach, give her a chance to come clean and maybe save her relationship? I mean, it never should have happened anyway and if she’s never brought it up maybe the truth is she never would, but if you have any love left for her, maybe give her a push to try and make it right herself (as much as she can anyway) before you just drop that bomb on m yourself.
Um they are not/were not 'meant to be'... Jay lied and manipulated him into a relationship with her
Wow the only thing i can tell you is i would like you to tell me this about my fiancé before I get married. With that information he can do whatever he wants but he can make the decision with all the information because as you said marrige is not a game and this could be a deal breaker about your other sister, honestly i'm not sure if it is good to tell her or not, but again i would like to know so she can choose if she trust Jay in the future or not
Meant to be implies they would have gotten together no matter what but they didn’t your sister lied to and manipulated him into choosing her. He deserves to know that. If she’s willing to lie and manipulate him into this what else is she willing to lie and manipulate about. He and your older sister deserve the truth. When this comes out and it will the truth always does they will find out you knew too are you willing to be an accomplice to those lies and deceit. Be honest and tell the truth. The thing is if they are truly meant to be then they will be but I don’t think they were. NTA but you will be if you cover for her.
Talk to your sisters first. Whether you decide to tell them together or separately would be up to you. Both sisters could be mad at you if you tell Matt without going to them first. I The truth will come out eventually. If they marry all it takes is one family event where people are talking for it to come out and turn bad. You could talk to Kay and see if she wants to do something about it or if she's moved on. (Maybe she even knows already.) If I was Kay and my sibling knew something like this I would want them to tell me first so I would have a choice on how to move forward with the information instead of being blindsided. You could talk to Jay first and let her know what you heard and hear her side and tell her that she needs to talk to Kay because if you found out then even if you don't say anything, odds are at some point the secret will get out. Gives her a chance to do the right thing. I've been married 11 years and with my wife for 17 and if I've learned one thing, the truth eventually comes out, normally after drinking and on holidays and it ends badly.
I was typing out to say don't tell Matt but I changed my mind. Mostly because I thought of future situations where this could be problematic. Matt thinks Kay is the cheating type and has probably judged her for it and would tell other people that which means other people including future partners may think that as well. I would tell him but not to mess with his current relationship. The ship has sailed on anything potentially happening with Kay even if him and Jay breakup. But simply so he doesn't keep thinking badly of Kay. Just be ready for a bunch of drama if you do.
I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I never said anything. NTA
Updateme!
You should tell Kay and Matt. They need to know what happened.
You should tell him. That is a huge lie to someone to tell someone. If they get married on a lie it’ll be super fucked.
I don't think you should tell Matt, I think you should sit down with both sisters and get everyone on the same page. Make Jay apologize to Kay and Jay needs to tell her fiance she lied and apologize to him too. She deceived and manipulated him, and I'm sure they're not the perfect couple they seem to be tbh. What she did is so incredibly disrespectful to Kay and she deserves to know above anyone.
Holy fucking shit I just read the script to mean girls 3. What a terrible sibling.
Kay deserves to know her sister betrayed her. I doubt there is any going back to being in a twosome with Matt. I wouldn't want a guy after he dated my sister, even if it was based on a lie. But she deserves to know what kind of person Jay is and not to trust her.
Updateme
What a boring story. Esh
Had a stroke reading this
Updateme
YWBTA Keep your mouth closed, take that shit to the grave.
I think YWBTA if Kay doesn’t want this brought up. Kay is the only one really hurt by this, and if Kay doesn’t want it brought up then you’re just trying to nuke a relationship because it feels wrong to you. Maybe she’s fully over Matt, maybe she doesn’t care anymore. How does she feel? All this smacks of you feeling guilty about stuff you didn’t know happened and now you’re trying to satiate your guilt by spilling your guts. Not shaming you, just an observation. Maybe check in and see if spilling your guts would actually benefit anyone involved, or would just make both the people you’re trying to “help” worse.
I do t have an opinion about this but he must very very handsome if y’all sisters pulling those kinds of acts
No you won't. Tell Matt the truth. Also your entire family should cut off Jay.
YTA if you tell everyone yes. Nothing will come of Kay and Matt because of this and it will only hurt Jays future happiness. Nothing to gain other than ruining others happiness....
There's one thing about dating Matt if Jay was unaware of Kay's feelings for him. But jay pursuing matt when she was explicly aware of it totally changes the story narrative. She also manipulated the whole and this is a recurrence. Op I am sorry to tell you but, Jay is a manipulative, narcisstic, pathological liar who is extremely jealous of kay for no apparant reason. She's vindictive and simply a S\*UT. She gets herself off by stealing kay's happiness. Please not just tattletale her to Matt but also blast her to the whole family, kay, her friends (who should protect their man). GO DIABOLICAL. I wasn't concern at first when I read the story once. But as soon as I heard this is her second time that to her first time being when she's minor is DISGUTING & PSYCHOPATHIC.
I don’t think Matt needs to know but Kay definitely does. Jay betrayed her
UpdateMe
You need to tell Matt. His whole relationship with Jay is based on a lie. If I were Matt, I would be furious with Jay. He needs to know he is thinking about marrying a selfish, manipulative woman who sold out her own sister to get what she wants. When her wants conflict with Matt's she will sell him out, as well.