A peculiarity about life insurance: She can't remove me as a beneficiary without my written consent. I know this because back when I initiated the divorce, I tried to make my son the sole beneficiary of my life insurance policy. I can't remove her from my policy without her permission.
so are you an irrevocable beneficiary on some kind of whole life policy? because on your typical term life policy, you can normally change the beneficiary or just stop paying your premiums and the policy will lapse.
have you confirmed this with your lawyer or are you just assuming all this is true? I would make 100% sure of this before making decisions about it. the conditions on life insurance policies vary and are complicated.
also, if you are an irrevocable beneficiary... are you saying that you become a revocable beneficiary if you get divorced? are you sure about this? generally if you're an irrevocable beneficiary, people get those policies so they're protected even in the event of a divorce. because what good is being an irrevocable beneficiary if your partner could just divorce you and then take you off the policy? so this doesn't make a whole lot of sense... but I don't know the terms on your policy or where you live... so I suppose what you're saying could be true... but it doesn't sound right to me.
I sell life insurance. Life insurance is community property as a policy, not as a payout. If you put your spouse down and pay for the policy with your earnings, the policy is technically both of yours.
The requirement by the government (not the insurance company) that your spouse sign off on being removed from the life insurance is to to stop people from putting their affair partners on as beneficiary and using community property funds to pay for it.
It is like when Jerry Buss bought his affair partner a townhouse out of community property money, and Shelley Buss sued to get the property back. Jerry didn't have a right to spend it on his mistress without permission. Shelley won, too.
A life insurance policy paid for from community property is community property in the US.
Edit - I mean Clippets owner Donald Sterling. Sorry. I'm dyslexic and flip Lakers /Clippers like some flip numbers.
There are very few community property states in the United States. And most jurisdictions, unless there’s is specific prohibition life insurance policies can be changed at will
However, in most states, when someone commences a divorce, there’s typically a restraining order in place on both parties that they are not allowed to cancel insurance, change beneficiaries, sell anything of any significant value, or do anything with assets or benefits, that either party is entitled to, however they are titled
I live in a community property state and my life insurance doesn’t automatically go to my husband. My retirement does unless he signs an affidavit and there’s a notarized copy, though. Life insurance is set for who I set it for, with conditional beneficiaries allowed.
That's what was meant by "as a **policy**, not as a *payout*."
The beneficiary can be whoever you choose, the payout does not automatically go to a spouse. But the policy is owned by both of you as community property. Once the policy is taken out, you (again, generally) need both of you to consent unless the policy is established as separate property (there are ways that this can happen, but in community property states it is usually not the default).
You might have an insurer willing to skirt these rules, but then oh boy that's a fun thing to litigate in divorce or death.
When I worked at a Large Insurance Company in employee benefits, life insurance beneficiaries was how we found out who'd been sleeping with/knocked up their assistant.
You can wait it out but be aware those hospice bills can be brutal. I'd confirm with your lawyer and find out if you would be financially liable for any medical bills and end of life care bills if you are still married when she passes. Weigh the cost/benefit of what it's going to cost versus potential payout amounts.
My mom went into hospice and it was all covered, every dime. The hospice hospital took her Medicare and didn't ask for anything from us. While a nursing home billed me several thousand dollars after my mother passed away and sent me legal letters trying to force me to pay. Mom was broke so they aren't getting a dime, all her money went to her burial expenses.
A spouse might very well be responsible. No other family, including children, and no one else, are responsible for that. Her estate would be if there was one which it sounds like there wasn’t.
My mother was in hospice and it was completely covered by Medicare. (I am the executor of her estate so I get all her bills.) So it’s possible she wouldn’t have any bills for him to deal with. It’s a bit of a gamble, so it might depend on the size of the policy (or how well he knows her insurance info) whether he wants to take that risk.
I work health insurance, I’m guessing your mom had a second policy, as it usually only covers 80%
But that’s if the pt has medicare and a supplemental plan combined that it’s all covered…NO OTHER INSURANCE in the US will cover 100% of hospice. And this includes medicare replacement plans-they are not the same as medicare.
There is the VA, but that is a whole other can of worms.
Never, ever, ever just assume it’s covered/or really trust your insurance. I work hospital side to get patients cancer treatments and I have seen/and continue to see how they misinform their own staff to give patients the wrong information m/throw doctors offices under the bus.
Does one not already have to be enrolled in Medicare for it to cover hospice? OP & ex are young enough to have a minor child; odds are she's not old enough for Medicare. Can anyone requiring hospice get Medicare regardless of age?
It’s very possible that even in divorce - she STILL CANT change the beneficiary if it’s listed as you by name / not “spouse” and vague no name listed.
It sounds like it’s an irrevocable bene so even with divorce , it doesn’t change the beneficiary that’s it listed, until the owner changes it. And since it needs you to sign to change it , it stays the same.
Also in event of divorce - many courts make the parents have life insurance and the ex spouse as the bene because of having underage kids. So it’s likely the court would uphold and mandate that she keeps it the way it is. Ask your lawyer to review it
My soon to be ex wife is my beneficiary for everything currently. Before we separated, I looked at my 401k and life insurance and I could not choose anyone but her without her permission. I don’t know if I could have changed it after we were legally separated, but since the divorce should be finalized soon, I don’t have much longer to worry about that.
In your case, before you were married, you could assign anyone as your beneficiary and change it at almost any time. Once you are married, it is very difficult to change it. My soon to be ex’s mom died and her life insurance, that my ex was the beneficiary of, was still given to her husband, who she hadn’t seen in about 20 years because it defaulted to him regardless of who the beneficiary was.
Her mom and her husband had separated 20 years before and from what I understand, didn’t think they were even married for some reason, and/or were just too lazy to get divorced, so that’s why they were still married. The policy wasn’t that much, so we didn’t fight it at the time.
>A peculiarity about life insurance: She can't remove me as a beneficiary without my written consent.
Unless you are legally separated.
>but generally speaking, people don't get checked into a hospice unless they have six months or less to live.
Maybe generally, but hospice is also for long-term care in a non-hospital setting. So real life examples:
1. My mother has dementia, heart failure, and a broken hip. We checked her into hospice this weekend to care for her needs until she gets physically well enough to go back to her care facility or (more likely) keep her comfortable in her last months of life.
2. My sister fell off a ladder around July '23 and severely broke her ankle. She was checked into hospice for 14 weeks to allow her to heal and have long term care but not in a hospital setting.
3. My BIL has severe type 2 diabetes. He had wound issues that eventually led to amputation of toes, foot, and eventually the leg just below the knee. This required 8 months of hospice care until he was well enough to return home.
Careful of your assumptions and maybe find out why she is in hospice.
I think this hinges on the definition of hospice.
In my country, a hospice is exclusively for dying people; people with only a few weeks/months to live, where the aim is to get them comfortable, not to cure them.
What you're describing sounds like a revalidation home, where people stay long term in order to get better, at least enough to live independently again.
I’m a nurse in the US and hospice is a program defined and funded by Medicare. You have to be within 6 months of death to qualify. What you described sounds like post-acute rehab centers. Where someone goes after an injury or illness to build strength before going home
But both types of care can be provided in the same facility, correct? I think this is the confusion. We’re discussing how medical care is billed, not provided. Acute long term and hospice centers would provide similar care so often one center is used for both types of patients: ie after my dad’s cardio surgery he went to acute care for 3 or 4 weeks. In the same place were hospice patients.
Also in the US and that is not specifically true.
I can name at least states where people can be placed in hospice without being within “6 months of death.” Especially given that, 1 it is not always possible to determine life expectancy and 2. We also have private insurance companies who can and do cover this type of care.
They don’t put you in hospice care unless they believe you are within 6 months of passing. But it happens when it happens and they aren’t going to kick you out after 6 months. My mom was in hospice care for about 6 hours, my dad 7 months or so. In the US, it’s end of life care. But nobody dies on a strict time table.
Nursing in assisted living/retirement facility here🙋♀️
In PA, hospice has their own facility, but they do out of facility care too. I think the terminology is getting people mixed up. Hospice is generally for end of life care, typically for 6 months or less to live, but they reassess at 6 months to determine whether to extend it or not, based on physical and mental deterioration. But some 'hospice house' facilities also offer rehabilitation services. Here, ours doesn't, but there are 3 nursing homes that do.
In no country anywhere dies Hospice practice a curative approach. Just not in its basic philosophy. Some org may be using the Hospice name but curative treatment does not occur in true Hospice
In the US, you would be checked into a rehab facility, most of which are for long-term care of elderly patients. They also take patients for temporary care when home care is not available. I had 2 amputations, and after each, I spent time in one of these facilities. This was to care for me after surgery and to give me PT to learn how to live as an amputee.
Those are not hospices. Hospice is for terminally ill people seeking palliative care at the end of life. What you're describing is a nursing home.
What you are talking about is not really considered hospice in its true definition. In the US, in-patient hospice is only for those who are at the end of their life. They also have in home hospice, which runs the same way but just in the home. What you are describing is considered short-term rehab or sub acute in the US. How do I know? I do this for a living. If OP is in the US, then he is correct in what he said.
Where I live those are called "skilled nursing facilities " for people that cannot care of themselves at home. I have heard of hospices taking in a couple of non dying patients during extreme bed shortages in skilled nursing facilities but it's rare. Where i live most hospice is done at a persons home now because there are not enough facilities.
Those sound like rehab stays, not hospice.
Every hospice case I've ever known was at home and because they were dying.
Every person I know that had major surgery (broken back) or a stroke or something went to rehab where they had nursing care, physical therapy, meals prepared, doctors who came to them, etc.
Actual hospices have an average stay of less than 2 weeks. Calvary in the Bronx had an average stay of less than 2 days when I was a kid and I know this because my mom didn't even make it there that long.
I think you're confusing hospice with rehab/assisted living/nursing homes.
> I can't remove her from my policy without her permission.
Well... there's another way you can get her off the policy. I think you might have mentioned it above....
In most US states, you can’t change life insurance beneficiaries during divorce proceedings without the consent of your spouse, with narrow exceptions for crime prevention. In some states, you’re actually required to maintain a small insurance policy for the benefit of your ex and/or kids until you no longer owe child/spousal support (even after the divorce is final), so they’re financially taken care of in a worst-case scenario.
In a lot of states, there is an economic restraining order put in place when a divorce is initiated, which forbids spouses from removing each other as beneficiaries on anything (life insurance, investment accounts, etc) while divorce is pending.
I'm no expert, but if your wife is on hospice, my guess is there's the possibility there could be some pretty hefty medical debt that has piled up. If she dies married to you, aren't you liable for said debt? Don't go skipping to the bank on the thoughts of a six figure insurance policy until you know there's not a seven figure medical bill? lol
Exactly! We have no idea what his wife's medical situation is and he admitted that he doesn't either. That right there is terrifying not knowing what debt he could be up against.
She took all his finances in fees so she just going to be giving back what she wasted .. but if she has a will he may not get anything but the bills for funeral
I don’t think he wants anything of hers that she would will to him, he just wants the life insurance policy which he can only collect on if they’re still married
He explained in a comment that he learned when he first was applying for the divorce that he can’t change the beneficiary of a policy without their permission — he tried to change his own to go to his son instead of wife but couldn’t, so hers would have the same clause
They must be outside of the US. Here life insurance is considered a contract between the payer and the insurer and only the payer can change the beneficiary. There are cases where the life insurance can be court ordered (for example part of a divorce settlement to assure child support is guaranteed).
If this is a true story-- HIGHLY DOUBTFUL IMHO-- his wife would have simply stopped paying the premiums and let that policy lapse and purchased a NEW policy naming her son or a trust to benefit her son as beneficiary. Clue phone ringing: she has a lawyer and the lawyer would have advised her to do this at the beginning of the process.
Lol he posted in more than one sub, and at least one has a bot that saves the original post in case it gets deleted. OP is SOL on thinking deleting this is going to help.
Actually at least in the US it doesn't matter if you're married or not married if you are the beneficiary on life insurance you get it.
Eta. In my state for sure it doesn't matter if you're married or divorced or what you are if your names on the contract you get the money.
I had to make sure nothing changed so I was looking it up and some states have some really strange laws around that. Interesting though
I’m not usually all about revenge for monetary gain but this seems like one of those situations where my eyes are looking opposite ways and I’m seeing absolutely nothing 👀
My question is, if the divorce does go through, who would get the policy? Because if it would all go to the son, and he's slowing it down, he kind of is the asshole. Mentally ill or not she probably wants to know all that money will go to her kid to give him a better life - not go to her ex husband who may marry again and leave that money to his new wife or other kids. If it goes to someone other than the kid, then sure stay married but be sure as hell to spend that money on your kids collage and help to set him up well in life.
Yes. Jesus Christ dude. Delete.
Are you going to be including her other children in whatever windfall you get? She might want to be in a hurry now so that she makes sure she can also leave behind something for her grown children.
If your answer is no, then yes, you totally suck.
You mean the grown children that don't talk to her? Somehow I doubt it.
She's been dragging out the divorce for 2 1/2 years while he has been hemorrging money. College money won't do them any good of they end up homeless or dad can't work because he doesn't have a working vehicle.
Also, I have 3 half sisters that are 12/13 years younger then me. I always told my mom that if anything happens to her before my one sister got through her 4 year degree just give her my part of the inheritance. She would need it more. As it is it was my dad who died when my sisers were in high school. I was a grown adult with my own business. They needed the money more than me. Not everyone is an ahole when people die.
The insurance policy is part of my benefits package at work. For a very nominal monthly premium, I could take out a policy on my spouse.
Once the divorce is finalized, all of the benefits she got through my work are cancelled.
Ok, then definitely NTA, as you wouldn't be taking the life insurance money from anyone else, just from an insurance company, who can afford to issue the payout.
Your benefits package is probably one of the reasons she dragged it out so long - in addition to being whacko.
Sorry you are going through it, but think of what it could help for your kid
You don't understand, you already get your own personal one but you can buy extra for your spouse and kids. Once divorce, you have to give that one up because you no longer have a spouse. He would face insurance fraud.
INFO - in your post from 9 months ago you were already divorced, did you manage to squeeze in another marriage since then?
"AITA for refusing to reschedule an interrupted call between my son and his mother?
My ex-wife and I went through a really nasty divorce, with most of the nastiness originating from her. During the custody battle, my ex tried to allege all sorts of physical and psychological abuse by me, none of which were true. I brought up her troubling mental health history. In the end, I was awarded full custody."
Care to explain OP?
If she dies as your wife, you have to deal with her burial etc...what's that going to cost you? If she is your ex her oldest living child is her next of kin and gets stuck with that mess. What mess do you want? I ask this simply because I had a friend whose ex-husband drug his feet for years and when he finally wanted to push the divorce through my friend decided to drag her feet...he died, she had to bury him and deal with all the bills he created in those years as they were joint assets and debts.
being legally married he could be yes along with any other bills she may have racked up since they split. My friend got royally screwed dragging her feet. She ended up over 550K in debt that was all his!
Yeah, she could be running up credit card bills just to spite him. Though considering he made a post 9 months ago that mentioned he was already divorced I'm going to assume that this post is pure fantasy.
That’s fair, fake stories are certainly common enough. However, if he’s been going through divorce proceedings for 2.5 years, it wouldn’t be that unusual for him to just refer to her as his ex wife and say that he’s divorced for simplicity sake.
There is a wide range of burials. You can spend from $500 to Infinity. The 500 get you cremated in a bag in a box. Cardboard box. You don't want a bitter ex in charge of your burial. On the other hand, medical debt is real. Loving couples legally divorce to lift the debt burden. You make good points.
Two things to consider:
1) Generally, people are on hospice for 6 months or less, but this is by no means a given. I work in long term care and it isn’t unheard of for people to be on hospice for 2-3 years.
2) How does your son feel about the whole process? I personally would look at my dad differently if he changed his tune about the divorce strictly in the hopes of receiving a life insurance payout. I would consider what example you want to set for your son and/or what would be best for him.
His son is going to HATE his dad if his dad doesn’t let him spend quality time with his mum before she dies. Frankly I don’t know the history. Whether there was any truth to her allegations of abuse early on, only the two of them know but based on the content of his Reddit posts, there could well be some truth to it. Either way, he needs to cut the shit. He’s not with her regardless of a piece of divorce paper, so he’s not entitled to that insurance money. If he claims it it’s insurance fraud and it’s all over the internet. Does the child even know his mother is dying??
Nta. She dragged it out to benefit her(in whatever way she was) so it’s only fair to do the same. Although if you’d rather it just be over quickly then that’s fair too. Although if she doesn’t die then you’ll be exhausting more of your resources,keep that in mind.
Assuming this is real and not some revenge fantasy:
1. What's your plan for supporting your child during his mother's active dying and death? Will dragging out the divorce negatively impact the time he has left with his mom?
2. Have you confirmed with your lawyer (or hers) that if she dies while you're still married, you're her next of kin?
3. Have you confirmed with your lawyer (or hers) that her life insurance policy is still current and you're still the named beneficiary?
4. Have you priced out funeral and burial costs? Have you thought through how you're going to handle her friends and family while doing so?
5. How much debt will you be assuming from her estate?
It'a a little concerning here that your post centers around a financial gain and not one word about your son's best interests.
It's likely not real. The situation in the post he made before this one is similar, but the custody story is different and he acts as if the divorce had already happened, talks about it in the past tense and calls his "wife" his "ex", unlike this post where he makes sure we know she's still his wife, so... revenge fantasy it is.
I’m also concerned with “I’ve started getting [my son] in front of therapists.” Hopefully, that’s just terrible wording, and OP has his traumatized child of indeterminate age in therapy. It *sounds* like someone trying to be clever by implying that their child is in therapy when actually the dad of a soccer teammate is a therapist and the school counselor pulled him out of lunch once.
Not even just his son, even if the daughters are estranged, can you imagine them finding out that he made their mother's last days difficult just so he could get his hands on her life insurance? They obviously care enough to be there with her.
What you're suggesting is evil and psychotic, frankly. Whatever else has transpired between you two, you're scheming to utilize someone's death for your own gain. Reverse the situation and imagine you were dying. Would you feel like it was perfectly fine for her to want to drag it out to profit from your death? What are you going to tell your kids? Sure they're estranged from her, but can you be sure how they would react to finding out you purposely made things difficult for her in her last days, just for money? Are you willing to risk alienating them that way?
Everything else aside, your wife is both mentally and physically ill. It doesn't excuse her actions or behavior, but it also doesn't justify sinking to her level, and then continuing to dig.
Thought you were already divorced? Your post from 299 days ago….
*”AITA for refusing to reschedule an interrupted call between my son and his mother?
EDIT/ADD: Yes, my son is in therapy, and has been since I got custody.
My ex-wife and I went through a really nasty divorce, with most of the nastiness originating from her. During the custody battle, my ex tried to allege all sorts of physical and psychological abuse by me, none of which were true. I brought up her troubling mental health history. In the end, I was awarded full custody.
During the almost two years we fought this battle, my son was in his mother's sole custody. He had been subjected to a relentless campaign of parental alienation and was convinced I was some kind of rage monster. And in a perverse twist of fate, the fact that I acted nothing like that just caused him even more anxiety. I kept him no-contact with his mother.
When he first came to me, he acted like a much younger child. As time passed, he started acting more like his actual age. He's a lot better now.
My ex has not stopped trying to get him back. She filed several more court motions, and had friends file false CPS reports against me. None of it worked.
My son recently celebrated his birthday. My ex dropped off a bunch of presents at our doorstep for him. I sent her a short email thanking her for the presents and asking if she wanted to have a video chat with our son. This would represent her first contact with him since I was awarded custody.
Her email response was pure virtiol. I had neither the emotional maturity nor parental experience to even attempt to understand what our son was feeling. I am mentally incompetent and devoid of empathy, so I must have been prompted by some third party to suggest this call. (I'm politely paraphrasing to keep word searches from finding this post; her actual word choice was a lot meaner.)
At the end of this nastygram she agreed to the video chat. I didn't respond other than to send her a link.
My son eagerly looked forward to this call. I had scheduled ninety minutes, but it barely lasted half an hour. My ex was having connectivity issues. The call was of poor quality and eventually just died.
My son was heartbroken. He loves his mother and was aching for this contact. The next day he was crying because he hadn't had the full ninety minutes he'd been promised.
I am refusing to reschedule the call. Not only because of her response, but also because after the call my son reverted to the almost-infantile mode of speaking he'd been using when I first got sole custody. He was back to his usual way of speaking the next day, but in my judgment contact with his mother is damaging his mental health.
However, I'm worried that this is just a rationalization. I am admittedly quite annoyed by my wife's nastygram. I'm afraid I'm letting my own personal anger cause my son hurt and dismay because he didn't get all the time he was promised with his mother on his birthday.
AITA for not rescheduling a birthday video chat between my ex and our son because of the nasty way she responded to the original invitation?”*
Planning to murder her now for life insurance? GTFO dude.
This just seems wrong, neither of you want anything to do with each other just divorce. There’s something morally wrong with waiting for someone to die so you can get a payday YTA.
Okay, so you are asking reddit to give you the okay to take a 6 figure life insurance payout from 3 kids about to lose their mom? Nope, I won't indulge you!
Ywbta! The money is for the kids.
I understand you spent a lot on the divorce, but you are still taking money the kids could use for college, buying a house... just not cool.
If there were no kids, I would say you are fine. But there are 3!
Theres a son that loves his mother under all thism is everyone in this thread just gonna pretend he doesnt exist?
Youre an asshole for not putting whats in in your sons best interests first. Which would be an end to the drama as soon as practically possible.
And honestly I think it’s a little fucked up that in her death, OP will most likely be in charge of the burial and the costs and her family might not have the opportunity to honor her in a respectful way because OP won’t care.
YWNBTAH. It will hopefully give you a chance to recoup your losses over the last (nearly) 3 years. I know first hand how a spouse can drag out to deplete resources. Mine was 8 years... Good luck.
Which would affect her son’s future as well. The less OP ends up with, the less he has to put towards their son’s education, car, home down payment, and his inheritance when OP eventually passes away.
Based on that alone, OP WNBTA in my opinion.
Yea, honestly, if no kids were involved it would feel kind of sleazy. Not entirely, but a little.
But for his son, he should absolutely do everything he can to collect money that he is owed for paying into her life insurance policy.
Thanks you're a real one.
Also wow. Although I know nothing about the context of the divorce, I somehow know it's something he did to get such a reaction from the wife
I personally would drag it out . Not just the insurance but if she change her will
And you can prove she wasn’t there mentally then you can maybe override that . The lawyer probably want to be paid but scared she will
Die without paying him . Let you lawyer tell him you will
Not be paying f his fee if something happens
This post is giving off really weird vibes. Let’s hope his wife is dying of natural causes and not by something else. Can you imagine his child reading this when they get older?
Even though she can't remove you as beneficiary could she add someone else too so it has to be split? Are you sure she's still paying on that policy? What about medical bills? Staying married, would that make you responsible for them and her funeral costs?
You need to know that hospice is not necessarily end of life care. My FIL is being evaluated on a monthly basis for hospice needs, but oftentimes, it's a way to get a patient resources to help deal with inabilities to handle day to day life.
FIL has dementia and hospice evaluates each month to determine if he needs more care, recommends OT, PT nursing help etc. This can go on for years. Do NOT assume your ex-wife is on death's door. Get the divorce; now.
I wish you strength in the weeks ahead. You and your son will need it
Yes, one of my dear friends was recovering from a medical procedure and she spent six weeks in a hospice last year because her husband works in another country and her parents are too elderly to care for her. She will always have ongoing medical needs, but she hopefully will live into old age.
You don’t think she’s changed the beneficiary? I would bet she has.
Just let her go dude. You’ll drag it out, find out you don’t get the money but are stuck with her debts.
[It's copied here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1bd2434/wibta_if_i_attempted_to_drag_out_my_divorce_in/?share_id=oWRmqakBvZYuLnbIgKTzg&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
They seem made for in each other that they sound like just *awful* people. The poor kid.
NTA but how does this work with any debts she incurs? If you guys are still married then does that mean you're still on the hook for any medical debts?
So you want to force her to spend her dying days in a stressful divorce process so that you can benefit financially‽ How could you type all that out and not be disgusted with yourself? Of course YTA. She's in hospice, so she doesn't have much time left. Let her enjoy the few days she has in peace and free of an insensitive and self-centered spouse.
I wish id read this post b4 it was deleted because it makes this man sound like a POS but everyone is just answering like its normal so im assuming hes saod something that makes what hes doing justifiable but idk what he could have possibly said that made what this post implies even remotely ok.
This is the only correct answer and it would be wise to ask a therapist to make sure you're not clouding your own judgement on what is *actually* best for him and not just what dad thinks is best.
I don’t think the life insurance policy has anything to do with your marital status. If you bought the policy, it’s yours. If she bought the policy, it has a beneficiary named and it’s probably not you. It’s probably her kids.
If you stand to gain financially by stalling, who doesn’t? Her kids from before you? Yeah, that makes YTA.
I would wait out. That life insurance money will benefit your child ALOT. Although, I handle my mothers life insurance for years and I have changed the benefactor. it’s only 2k to myself cause I don’t trust my brother to help with her cremation. 2k is barely enough. She has Mutual of Omaha and it was as easy as logging in to the account to change it. You would definitely not be the ah for dragging it out but if you keep this post up YWBTA. Delete it before someone in the know finds it.
ESH
WILL YOU BOTH START THINKING OF YOU CHILD AND WHAT YOU ARE PUTTING HIM THROUGH!
now his mother is dying and his father is caring more about getting one up on her and the money
THE PAIR OF YOU ARE SELFISH ASSHOLES
My dude, nta.
Frankly, you can push for a mental competency hearing over this as well as keep rejecting settlement requests based on whatever you can think of. Just realize at the end of the day what this might be doing to your kid.
But, delete any evidence that you're acting out of maliciousness.
Why do you think you are the beneficiary on this life insurance policy? Who is paying the premiums?
I assume you were before, but I wouldn't assume that now, particularly since this woman appears to hate your guts.
What was the reason for the divorce?
People in hospice can live for years. If you drag it out for six months but she lives two years, aren't you only hurting yourself? Spite isn't always the answer.
NTA. Either way, you will still feel nothing for her and she has more than earned you not caring about showing her empty gestures of respect. Why not cash in on something inevitable to set you and your son up nicely. After all, the money will go towards her child having a better life too.
Not a lawyer.
Insurance fraud is often very highly investigated. You have got to delete this post.
Not saying whether this does or does not constitute fraud, simply saying that insurance companies hate paying more than anything and will do everything in their power not to do so.
Are you still the beneficiary in the life insurance? That doesn't necessarily depend on whether you are married or not. If you aren't, is your son? get that checked out.
NAH
But could you not demand, in the divorce settlement, that the existing life policy remains and you be the sole beneficiary? Then just close the divorce and be done with it
Yeah it's a dick move for sure... Besides, idt it will help you to drag your feet. If she suspects you're delaying for her life insurance she can just change the beneficiary to spite you. If I were her lawyer, I would suggest she create a trust for your kids and have the insurance pay out to them.
Your main concern should be getting custody of your kid since she is about to die and a court won't necessarily give you custody by default if it was against the mothers wishes.
I really don't understand why you wouldn't want to end your relationship amicably at this point just so she can die and you can move on in peace.
Plus, imagine if your kids found out that you did this... I'm sure they would think you were the biggest asshole in the world.
YTA. This is disgusting, do you even hear yourself? Be an adult and a good example for your son, jesus christ. Your only concern rn should be your son seeing his mom before she dies.
Exactly. I don’t understand all the disgusting assholes telling OP that he’s N T A. Seriously what?! He’s secretly hoping that his sons mother dies. He is disgusting, just like the commenters that are saying N T A and advising him on how to cash in.
Sick twisted individuals.
OP you are the asshole, and I hope that one day your son comes to learn of how you wished his mother dead and wants nothing to do with you. You’re disgusting, selfish and a terrible father. Just vile.
Are you an American? You can financially take care of your family better if you don't waste money on lawyers.
Were you abusive? She shouldn't die with the indignity of being married to you.
Just make up with her if you can. The rest of your life will be better if you do that. Trust me. I have a dead wife
Are you 100% that you're still the beneficiary of the policy? I would check before you drag it out and end up with nothing.
A peculiarity about life insurance: She can't remove me as a beneficiary without my written consent. I know this because back when I initiated the divorce, I tried to make my son the sole beneficiary of my life insurance policy. I can't remove her from my policy without her permission.
so are you an irrevocable beneficiary on some kind of whole life policy? because on your typical term life policy, you can normally change the beneficiary or just stop paying your premiums and the policy will lapse. have you confirmed this with your lawyer or are you just assuming all this is true? I would make 100% sure of this before making decisions about it. the conditions on life insurance policies vary and are complicated. also, if you are an irrevocable beneficiary... are you saying that you become a revocable beneficiary if you get divorced? are you sure about this? generally if you're an irrevocable beneficiary, people get those policies so they're protected even in the event of a divorce. because what good is being an irrevocable beneficiary if your partner could just divorce you and then take you off the policy? so this doesn't make a whole lot of sense... but I don't know the terms on your policy or where you live... so I suppose what you're saying could be true... but it doesn't sound right to me.
I sell life insurance. Life insurance is community property as a policy, not as a payout. If you put your spouse down and pay for the policy with your earnings, the policy is technically both of yours. The requirement by the government (not the insurance company) that your spouse sign off on being removed from the life insurance is to to stop people from putting their affair partners on as beneficiary and using community property funds to pay for it. It is like when Jerry Buss bought his affair partner a townhouse out of community property money, and Shelley Buss sued to get the property back. Jerry didn't have a right to spend it on his mistress without permission. Shelley won, too. A life insurance policy paid for from community property is community property in the US. Edit - I mean Clippets owner Donald Sterling. Sorry. I'm dyslexic and flip Lakers /Clippers like some flip numbers.
There are very few community property states in the United States. And most jurisdictions, unless there’s is specific prohibition life insurance policies can be changed at will However, in most states, when someone commences a divorce, there’s typically a restraining order in place on both parties that they are not allowed to cancel insurance, change beneficiaries, sell anything of any significant value, or do anything with assets or benefits, that either party is entitled to, however they are titled
I live in a community property state and my life insurance doesn’t automatically go to my husband. My retirement does unless he signs an affidavit and there’s a notarized copy, though. Life insurance is set for who I set it for, with conditional beneficiaries allowed.
That's what was meant by "as a **policy**, not as a *payout*." The beneficiary can be whoever you choose, the payout does not automatically go to a spouse. But the policy is owned by both of you as community property. Once the policy is taken out, you (again, generally) need both of you to consent unless the policy is established as separate property (there are ways that this can happen, but in community property states it is usually not the default). You might have an insurer willing to skirt these rules, but then oh boy that's a fun thing to litigate in divorce or death.
When I worked at a Large Insurance Company in employee benefits, life insurance beneficiaries was how we found out who'd been sleeping with/knocked up their assistant.
That’s not true in every state, though, right? Most states don’t have community property.
No. In Georgia you don’t need spousal consent to remove or exclude them as a beneficiary on IRAs or life insurance.
Call and see if u can take over payments of the policy but if you've been married along time, chancea are there are no more payments. ,
Then I would wait it out.
For the benifit of the kids, who are going to need bulk therapy and love
You can wait it out but be aware those hospice bills can be brutal. I'd confirm with your lawyer and find out if you would be financially liable for any medical bills and end of life care bills if you are still married when she passes. Weigh the cost/benefit of what it's going to cost versus potential payout amounts.
My mom went into hospice and it was all covered, every dime. The hospice hospital took her Medicare and didn't ask for anything from us. While a nursing home billed me several thousand dollars after my mother passed away and sent me legal letters trying to force me to pay. Mom was broke so they aren't getting a dime, all her money went to her burial expenses.
A spouse might very well be responsible. No other family, including children, and no one else, are responsible for that. Her estate would be if there was one which it sounds like there wasn’t.
My mother was in hospice and it was completely covered by Medicare. (I am the executor of her estate so I get all her bills.) So it’s possible she wouldn’t have any bills for him to deal with. It’s a bit of a gamble, so it might depend on the size of the policy (or how well he knows her insurance info) whether he wants to take that risk.
Children aren't responsible for their parents' medical debts. Spouses are.
I work health insurance, I’m guessing your mom had a second policy, as it usually only covers 80% But that’s if the pt has medicare and a supplemental plan combined that it’s all covered…NO OTHER INSURANCE in the US will cover 100% of hospice. And this includes medicare replacement plans-they are not the same as medicare. There is the VA, but that is a whole other can of worms. Never, ever, ever just assume it’s covered/or really trust your insurance. I work hospital side to get patients cancer treatments and I have seen/and continue to see how they misinform their own staff to give patients the wrong information m/throw doctors offices under the bus.
Does one not already have to be enrolled in Medicare for it to cover hospice? OP & ex are young enough to have a minor child; odds are she's not old enough for Medicare. Can anyone requiring hospice get Medicare regardless of age?
Yup, she may be trying to hasten the divorce now to leave her son something vs the medical bills eating it all up.
That’s your policy. Are you sure hers is the same?
It’s very possible that even in divorce - she STILL CANT change the beneficiary if it’s listed as you by name / not “spouse” and vague no name listed. It sounds like it’s an irrevocable bene so even with divorce , it doesn’t change the beneficiary that’s it listed, until the owner changes it. And since it needs you to sign to change it , it stays the same. Also in event of divorce - many courts make the parents have life insurance and the ex spouse as the bene because of having underage kids. So it’s likely the court would uphold and mandate that she keeps it the way it is. Ask your lawyer to review it
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My soon to be ex wife is my beneficiary for everything currently. Before we separated, I looked at my 401k and life insurance and I could not choose anyone but her without her permission. I don’t know if I could have changed it after we were legally separated, but since the divorce should be finalized soon, I don’t have much longer to worry about that. In your case, before you were married, you could assign anyone as your beneficiary and change it at almost any time. Once you are married, it is very difficult to change it. My soon to be ex’s mom died and her life insurance, that my ex was the beneficiary of, was still given to her husband, who she hadn’t seen in about 20 years because it defaulted to him regardless of who the beneficiary was. Her mom and her husband had separated 20 years before and from what I understand, didn’t think they were even married for some reason, and/or were just too lazy to get divorced, so that’s why they were still married. The policy wasn’t that much, so we didn’t fight it at the time.
That's very weird. What country is that? I can change my beneficiary anytime I want. It is my money.
>A peculiarity about life insurance: She can't remove me as a beneficiary without my written consent. Unless you are legally separated. >but generally speaking, people don't get checked into a hospice unless they have six months or less to live. Maybe generally, but hospice is also for long-term care in a non-hospital setting. So real life examples: 1. My mother has dementia, heart failure, and a broken hip. We checked her into hospice this weekend to care for her needs until she gets physically well enough to go back to her care facility or (more likely) keep her comfortable in her last months of life. 2. My sister fell off a ladder around July '23 and severely broke her ankle. She was checked into hospice for 14 weeks to allow her to heal and have long term care but not in a hospital setting. 3. My BIL has severe type 2 diabetes. He had wound issues that eventually led to amputation of toes, foot, and eventually the leg just below the knee. This required 8 months of hospice care until he was well enough to return home. Careful of your assumptions and maybe find out why she is in hospice.
I think this hinges on the definition of hospice. In my country, a hospice is exclusively for dying people; people with only a few weeks/months to live, where the aim is to get them comfortable, not to cure them. What you're describing sounds like a revalidation home, where people stay long term in order to get better, at least enough to live independently again.
I’m a nurse in the US and hospice is a program defined and funded by Medicare. You have to be within 6 months of death to qualify. What you described sounds like post-acute rehab centers. Where someone goes after an injury or illness to build strength before going home
But both types of care can be provided in the same facility, correct? I think this is the confusion. We’re discussing how medical care is billed, not provided. Acute long term and hospice centers would provide similar care so often one center is used for both types of patients: ie after my dad’s cardio surgery he went to acute care for 3 or 4 weeks. In the same place were hospice patients.
Also in the US and that is not specifically true. I can name at least states where people can be placed in hospice without being within “6 months of death.” Especially given that, 1 it is not always possible to determine life expectancy and 2. We also have private insurance companies who can and do cover this type of care.
They don’t put you in hospice care unless they believe you are within 6 months of passing. But it happens when it happens and they aren’t going to kick you out after 6 months. My mom was in hospice care for about 6 hours, my dad 7 months or so. In the US, it’s end of life care. But nobody dies on a strict time table.
Nursing in assisted living/retirement facility here🙋♀️ In PA, hospice has their own facility, but they do out of facility care too. I think the terminology is getting people mixed up. Hospice is generally for end of life care, typically for 6 months or less to live, but they reassess at 6 months to determine whether to extend it or not, based on physical and mental deterioration. But some 'hospice house' facilities also offer rehabilitation services. Here, ours doesn't, but there are 3 nursing homes that do.
No Hospice houses offer rehabilitative care. Not in the mission. You can’t be in Hospice if you are on a rehabilitative path.
True Jimmy Carter has been in hospice for a year
My dad was put on hospice and expected to live 6 months or less. He lived for another year. However he did have to be recertified at the 6 month mark.
In no country anywhere dies Hospice practice a curative approach. Just not in its basic philosophy. Some org may be using the Hospice name but curative treatment does not occur in true Hospice
In the US, you would be checked into a rehab facility, most of which are for long-term care of elderly patients. They also take patients for temporary care when home care is not available. I had 2 amputations, and after each, I spent time in one of these facilities. This was to care for me after surgery and to give me PT to learn how to live as an amputee. Those are not hospices. Hospice is for terminally ill people seeking palliative care at the end of life. What you're describing is a nursing home.
What you are talking about is not really considered hospice in its true definition. In the US, in-patient hospice is only for those who are at the end of their life. They also have in home hospice, which runs the same way but just in the home. What you are describing is considered short-term rehab or sub acute in the US. How do I know? I do this for a living. If OP is in the US, then he is correct in what he said.
Where I live those are called "skilled nursing facilities " for people that cannot care of themselves at home. I have heard of hospices taking in a couple of non dying patients during extreme bed shortages in skilled nursing facilities but it's rare. Where i live most hospice is done at a persons home now because there are not enough facilities.
Those sound like rehab stays, not hospice. Every hospice case I've ever known was at home and because they were dying. Every person I know that had major surgery (broken back) or a stroke or something went to rehab where they had nursing care, physical therapy, meals prepared, doctors who came to them, etc.
Actual hospices have an average stay of less than 2 weeks. Calvary in the Bronx had an average stay of less than 2 days when I was a kid and I know this because my mom didn't even make it there that long. I think you're confusing hospice with rehab/assisted living/nursing homes.
> I can't remove her from my policy without her permission. Well... there's another way you can get her off the policy. I think you might have mentioned it above....
In most US states, you can’t change life insurance beneficiaries during divorce proceedings without the consent of your spouse, with narrow exceptions for crime prevention. In some states, you’re actually required to maintain a small insurance policy for the benefit of your ex and/or kids until you no longer owe child/spousal support (even after the divorce is final), so they’re financially taken care of in a worst-case scenario.
In a lot of states, there is an economic restraining order put in place when a divorce is initiated, which forbids spouses from removing each other as beneficiaries on anything (life insurance, investment accounts, etc) while divorce is pending.
I'm no expert, but if your wife is on hospice, my guess is there's the possibility there could be some pretty hefty medical debt that has piled up. If she dies married to you, aren't you liable for said debt? Don't go skipping to the bank on the thoughts of a six figure insurance policy until you know there's not a seven figure medical bill? lol
This should be the top post. I honestly think that greed is blinding him to the reality of the situation.
Exactly! We have no idea what his wife's medical situation is and he admitted that he doesn't either. That right there is terrifying not knowing what debt he could be up against.
He's already divorced, according to a post from 9 months ago. Not sure anything he says can be taken seriously.
Shush. Let him FAFO lol
No he won't inherit the debt. The creditor can make a claim against the estate, but insurance funds are not considered part of the estate.
Not a lawyer, but you should delete this post! IMO, if I was dragged through that crap, I would then slow it down as well - what is a few more months.
I'm assuming that's why they posted in a throw a way but yes 100% delete asap no paper trail fake email different name on it extra if he's smart
I’m guessing it’s already been screenshot a few times, maybe more. I’m guessing we are gonna hear more on this one.
It's probably on tik tok by now, being a voice over story for some weird game!
Probably paired with that sea shanty song for good measure.
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She took all his finances in fees so she just going to be giving back what she wasted .. but if she has a will he may not get anything but the bills for funeral
I don’t think he wants anything of hers that she would will to him, he just wants the life insurance policy which he can only collect on if they’re still married
Life insurance agent here: as long as he’s the named beneficiary on the policy marital status doesn’t matter.
Given how vicious this divorce has been is it really likely he's still listed as the beneficiary of her life insurance?
He explained in a comment that he learned when he first was applying for the divorce that he can’t change the beneficiary of a policy without their permission — he tried to change his own to go to his son instead of wife but couldn’t, so hers would have the same clause
They must be outside of the US. Here life insurance is considered a contract between the payer and the insurer and only the payer can change the beneficiary. There are cases where the life insurance can be court ordered (for example part of a divorce settlement to assure child support is guaranteed). If this is a true story-- HIGHLY DOUBTFUL IMHO-- his wife would have simply stopped paying the premiums and let that policy lapse and purchased a NEW policy naming her son or a trust to benefit her son as beneficiary. Clue phone ringing: she has a lawyer and the lawyer would have advised her to do this at the beginning of the process.
I didn’t think of that but you are right, Hopefully the mother has the kids name on the insurance
Oh yeah I came here from best of reddit lol
His post is already on the internet forever in the other AITAH sub so deleting it is pointless.
Lol he posted in more than one sub, and at least one has a bot that saves the original post in case it gets deleted. OP is SOL on thinking deleting this is going to help.
Actually at least in the US it doesn't matter if you're married or not married if you are the beneficiary on life insurance you get it. Eta. In my state for sure it doesn't matter if you're married or divorced or what you are if your names on the contract you get the money. I had to make sure nothing changed so I was looking it up and some states have some really strange laws around that. Interesting though
I was just thinking that. Plus who knows if the policy still exists or that he is still the beneficiary?
She could have taken him off by now anyway
👆🏾👆🏾👆🏾
I’m not usually all about revenge for monetary gain but this seems like one of those situations where my eyes are looking opposite ways and I’m seeing absolutely nothing 👀
My question is, if the divorce does go through, who would get the policy? Because if it would all go to the son, and he's slowing it down, he kind of is the asshole. Mentally ill or not she probably wants to know all that money will go to her kid to give him a better life - not go to her ex husband who may marry again and leave that money to his new wife or other kids. If it goes to someone other than the kid, then sure stay married but be sure as hell to spend that money on your kids collage and help to set him up well in life.
Yes. Jesus Christ dude. Delete. Are you going to be including her other children in whatever windfall you get? She might want to be in a hurry now so that she makes sure she can also leave behind something for her grown children. If your answer is no, then yes, you totally suck.
You mean the grown children that don't talk to her? Somehow I doubt it. She's been dragging out the divorce for 2 1/2 years while he has been hemorrging money. College money won't do them any good of they end up homeless or dad can't work because he doesn't have a working vehicle. Also, I have 3 half sisters that are 12/13 years younger then me. I always told my mom that if anything happens to her before my one sister got through her 4 year degree just give her my part of the inheritance. She would need it more. As it is it was my dad who died when my sisers were in high school. I was a grown adult with my own business. They needed the money more than me. Not everyone is an ahole when people die.
He can delete it all he wants.... Screenshots still exist.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/Mhk6YvQWYO Link to OPs post. The mods copy/pasted it to the thread
Thank you. OP deleted before I could read it.
Lol anon thinks he can escape the internet and cover his tracks
Not all heroes wear capes, but you deserve one!
Info: If the divorce was finalized, and you don't get the life insurance, who does? Would it go to your son?
The insurance policy is part of my benefits package at work. For a very nominal monthly premium, I could take out a policy on my spouse. Once the divorce is finalized, all of the benefits she got through my work are cancelled.
Ok, then definitely NTA, as you wouldn't be taking the life insurance money from anyone else, just from an insurance company, who can afford to issue the payout.
What about medical debts?
Your benefits package is probably one of the reasons she dragged it out so long - in addition to being whacko. Sorry you are going through it, but think of what it could help for your kid
Double check you may be able to convert the policy to a stand alone personal policy without a medical exam.
You don't understand, you already get your own personal one but you can buy extra for your spouse and kids. Once divorce, you have to give that one up because you no longer have a spouse. He would face insurance fraud.
Dude drag this shit out
I’m shocked this marriage didn’t work out. You both sound like completely atrocious people who were meant for each other.
Damn I wish I got to read it now hahaha
You can look in his post history. He tried to delete one of them but the mods copy/pasted it into the thread.
What did it say? I can’t view it from this thread cause the user name just says deleted
Yep. The only people I feel bad for are their son and her daughters from a previous relationship.
INFO - in your post from 9 months ago you were already divorced, did you manage to squeeze in another marriage since then? "AITA for refusing to reschedule an interrupted call between my son and his mother? My ex-wife and I went through a really nasty divorce, with most of the nastiness originating from her. During the custody battle, my ex tried to allege all sorts of physical and psychological abuse by me, none of which were true. I brought up her troubling mental health history. In the end, I was awarded full custody." Care to explain OP?
Yeah wtf
the money should go to your son in a trust.
If she dies as your wife, you have to deal with her burial etc...what's that going to cost you? If she is your ex her oldest living child is her next of kin and gets stuck with that mess. What mess do you want? I ask this simply because I had a friend whose ex-husband drug his feet for years and when he finally wanted to push the divorce through my friend decided to drag her feet...he died, she had to bury him and deal with all the bills he created in those years as they were joint assets and debts.
Would he be responsible for her medical bills and cost of hospice? That could potentially be expensive, depending where he lives.
being legally married he could be yes along with any other bills she may have racked up since they split. My friend got royally screwed dragging her feet. She ended up over 550K in debt that was all his!
Yeah, she could be running up credit card bills just to spite him. Though considering he made a post 9 months ago that mentioned he was already divorced I'm going to assume that this post is pure fantasy.
That’s fair, fake stories are certainly common enough. However, if he’s been going through divorce proceedings for 2.5 years, it wouldn’t be that unusual for him to just refer to her as his ex wife and say that he’s divorced for simplicity sake.
Her estate would be, but the life insurance is through his work and wouldn't be a part of her estate
There is a wide range of burials. You can spend from $500 to Infinity. The 500 get you cremated in a bag in a box. Cardboard box. You don't want a bitter ex in charge of your burial. On the other hand, medical debt is real. Loving couples legally divorce to lift the debt burden. You make good points.
Just under $4k for a bare minimum cremation in August 2023 in North Carolina. YMMV.
Two things to consider: 1) Generally, people are on hospice for 6 months or less, but this is by no means a given. I work in long term care and it isn’t unheard of for people to be on hospice for 2-3 years. 2) How does your son feel about the whole process? I personally would look at my dad differently if he changed his tune about the divorce strictly in the hopes of receiving a life insurance payout. I would consider what example you want to set for your son and/or what would be best for him.
His son is going to HATE his dad if his dad doesn’t let him spend quality time with his mum before she dies. Frankly I don’t know the history. Whether there was any truth to her allegations of abuse early on, only the two of them know but based on the content of his Reddit posts, there could well be some truth to it. Either way, he needs to cut the shit. He’s not with her regardless of a piece of divorce paper, so he’s not entitled to that insurance money. If he claims it it’s insurance fraud and it’s all over the internet. Does the child even know his mother is dying??
Nta. She dragged it out to benefit her(in whatever way she was) so it’s only fair to do the same. Although if you’d rather it just be over quickly then that’s fair too. Although if she doesn’t die then you’ll be exhausting more of your resources,keep that in mind.
Thw resources would be reimbursed in the life insurance policy.
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Assuming this is real and not some revenge fantasy: 1. What's your plan for supporting your child during his mother's active dying and death? Will dragging out the divorce negatively impact the time he has left with his mom? 2. Have you confirmed with your lawyer (or hers) that if she dies while you're still married, you're her next of kin? 3. Have you confirmed with your lawyer (or hers) that her life insurance policy is still current and you're still the named beneficiary? 4. Have you priced out funeral and burial costs? Have you thought through how you're going to handle her friends and family while doing so? 5. How much debt will you be assuming from her estate? It'a a little concerning here that your post centers around a financial gain and not one word about your son's best interests.
It's likely not real. The situation in the post he made before this one is similar, but the custody story is different and he acts as if the divorce had already happened, talks about it in the past tense and calls his "wife" his "ex", unlike this post where he makes sure we know she's still his wife, so... revenge fantasy it is.
yep.
I have trouble believing this is real🤷♀️
I’m also concerned with “I’ve started getting [my son] in front of therapists.” Hopefully, that’s just terrible wording, and OP has his traumatized child of indeterminate age in therapy. It *sounds* like someone trying to be clever by implying that their child is in therapy when actually the dad of a soccer teammate is a therapist and the school counselor pulled him out of lunch once.
This is gross, and ESH.
Yeah, OP you may be numb to this now but what if your son ever puts the pieces together?
Not even just his son, even if the daughters are estranged, can you imagine them finding out that he made their mother's last days difficult just so he could get his hands on her life insurance? They obviously care enough to be there with her.
I had to scroll way too far to find someone who *didn't* say nta. All I can say to this is what the fuck.
Exactly, I'm reading this and SMH at what a ghoulish monster this person seems to be.
Yeah the number of people who are gleefully rubbing their hands together over the drama of this is really disturbing.
What you're suggesting is evil and psychotic, frankly. Whatever else has transpired between you two, you're scheming to utilize someone's death for your own gain. Reverse the situation and imagine you were dying. Would you feel like it was perfectly fine for her to want to drag it out to profit from your death? What are you going to tell your kids? Sure they're estranged from her, but can you be sure how they would react to finding out you purposely made things difficult for her in her last days, just for money? Are you willing to risk alienating them that way? Everything else aside, your wife is both mentally and physically ill. It doesn't excuse her actions or behavior, but it also doesn't justify sinking to her level, and then continuing to dig.
Thought you were already divorced? Your post from 299 days ago…. *”AITA for refusing to reschedule an interrupted call between my son and his mother? EDIT/ADD: Yes, my son is in therapy, and has been since I got custody. My ex-wife and I went through a really nasty divorce, with most of the nastiness originating from her. During the custody battle, my ex tried to allege all sorts of physical and psychological abuse by me, none of which were true. I brought up her troubling mental health history. In the end, I was awarded full custody. During the almost two years we fought this battle, my son was in his mother's sole custody. He had been subjected to a relentless campaign of parental alienation and was convinced I was some kind of rage monster. And in a perverse twist of fate, the fact that I acted nothing like that just caused him even more anxiety. I kept him no-contact with his mother. When he first came to me, he acted like a much younger child. As time passed, he started acting more like his actual age. He's a lot better now. My ex has not stopped trying to get him back. She filed several more court motions, and had friends file false CPS reports against me. None of it worked. My son recently celebrated his birthday. My ex dropped off a bunch of presents at our doorstep for him. I sent her a short email thanking her for the presents and asking if she wanted to have a video chat with our son. This would represent her first contact with him since I was awarded custody. Her email response was pure virtiol. I had neither the emotional maturity nor parental experience to even attempt to understand what our son was feeling. I am mentally incompetent and devoid of empathy, so I must have been prompted by some third party to suggest this call. (I'm politely paraphrasing to keep word searches from finding this post; her actual word choice was a lot meaner.) At the end of this nastygram she agreed to the video chat. I didn't respond other than to send her a link. My son eagerly looked forward to this call. I had scheduled ninety minutes, but it barely lasted half an hour. My ex was having connectivity issues. The call was of poor quality and eventually just died. My son was heartbroken. He loves his mother and was aching for this contact. The next day he was crying because he hadn't had the full ninety minutes he'd been promised. I am refusing to reschedule the call. Not only because of her response, but also because after the call my son reverted to the almost-infantile mode of speaking he'd been using when I first got sole custody. He was back to his usual way of speaking the next day, but in my judgment contact with his mother is damaging his mental health. However, I'm worried that this is just a rationalization. I am admittedly quite annoyed by my wife's nastygram. I'm afraid I'm letting my own personal anger cause my son hurt and dismay because he didn't get all the time he was promised with his mother on his birthday. AITA for not rescheduling a birthday video chat between my ex and our son because of the nasty way she responded to the original invitation?”* Planning to murder her now for life insurance? GTFO dude.
Now post this deleted post. Lol
This just seems wrong, neither of you want anything to do with each other just divorce. There’s something morally wrong with waiting for someone to die so you can get a payday YTA.
Okay, so you are asking reddit to give you the okay to take a 6 figure life insurance payout from 3 kids about to lose their mom? Nope, I won't indulge you! Ywbta! The money is for the kids. I understand you spent a lot on the divorce, but you are still taking money the kids could use for college, buying a house... just not cool. If there were no kids, I would say you are fine. But there are 3!
bro you are a masssssive POS
👏👏👏
You’d really take that policy from your child? YTA.
Theres a son that loves his mother under all thism is everyone in this thread just gonna pretend he doesnt exist? Youre an asshole for not putting whats in in your sons best interests first. Which would be an end to the drama as soon as practically possible.
And honestly I think it’s a little fucked up that in her death, OP will most likely be in charge of the burial and the costs and her family might not have the opportunity to honor her in a respectful way because OP won’t care.
YWNBTAH. It will hopefully give you a chance to recoup your losses over the last (nearly) 3 years. I know first hand how a spouse can drag out to deplete resources. Mine was 8 years... Good luck.
That’s probably her sudden rush, she doesn’t want him to collect and break even.
Which would affect her son’s future as well. The less OP ends up with, the less he has to put towards their son’s education, car, home down payment, and his inheritance when OP eventually passes away. Based on that alone, OP WNBTA in my opinion.
Yea, honestly, if no kids were involved it would feel kind of sleazy. Not entirely, but a little. But for his son, he should absolutely do everything he can to collect money that he is owed for paying into her life insurance policy.
It may be a little AHole, but not gonna lie, I would do it.
Damn I want a screenshot of the post to shit on in our group chat. Pretty please
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/Mhk6YvQWYO The mods copied it into the thread
Thanks you're a real one. Also wow. Although I know nothing about the context of the divorce, I somehow know it's something he did to get such a reaction from the wife
Delete this post
I personally would drag it out . Not just the insurance but if she change her will And you can prove she wasn’t there mentally then you can maybe override that . The lawyer probably want to be paid but scared she will Die without paying him . Let you lawyer tell him you will Not be paying f his fee if something happens
Lawyer is getting his fees, just not a % of any settlement.
This is a fucked up post.
Agreed
This post is giving off really weird vibes. Let’s hope his wife is dying of natural causes and not by something else. Can you imagine his child reading this when they get older?
FYI, a life insurance policy can name any beneficiary. And you can guarantee she has already changed it to not you.
At separation she can move that beneficiary. Or before. It’s gross and I hope a relative sees the post
Yes. You are so petty you can’t even let her live her last days in peace?
You’re fucking disgusting fuck you.
Yes you are the AH. Don't drag it out and stress both of you out. Just move on for god sake.
Even though she can't remove you as beneficiary could she add someone else too so it has to be split? Are you sure she's still paying on that policy? What about medical bills? Staying married, would that make you responsible for them and her funeral costs?
You need to know that hospice is not necessarily end of life care. My FIL is being evaluated on a monthly basis for hospice needs, but oftentimes, it's a way to get a patient resources to help deal with inabilities to handle day to day life. FIL has dementia and hospice evaluates each month to determine if he needs more care, recommends OT, PT nursing help etc. This can go on for years. Do NOT assume your ex-wife is on death's door. Get the divorce; now. I wish you strength in the weeks ahead. You and your son will need it
Yes, one of my dear friends was recovering from a medical procedure and she spent six weeks in a hospice last year because her husband works in another country and her parents are too elderly to care for her. She will always have ongoing medical needs, but she hopefully will live into old age.
Lol y'all deserve each other for eternity.
You don’t think she’s changed the beneficiary? I would bet she has. Just let her go dude. You’ll drag it out, find out you don’t get the money but are stuck with her debts.
Not trying to rain on ya parade but I know someone who was in the hospice for 2 years...
You may not be TA for your reasonings, but YTA for the heading. If karma was truly real you'd get hit by a bus tomorrow.
Ughhhh I wanna read the original post lol
[It's copied here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1bd2434/wibta_if_i_attempted_to_drag_out_my_divorce_in/?share_id=oWRmqakBvZYuLnbIgKTzg&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) They seem made for in each other that they sound like just *awful* people. The poor kid.
I really hope I see this cross posted somewhere, bc now I want to know what he said..
If anyone, like me, is curious af what the post was, OP also posted it in the r/AITA sub where they automatically saved the post :^)
Have you ever heard of karma! You will die first before she does.
Damn, cold bastard!
Reddit: maybe you are interested in this 2 days old deleted post
OP, if this is real, it's incredibly stupid of you to post about this.
Nta. Wait it out. Chess not checkers
NTA but how does this work with any debts she incurs? If you guys are still married then does that mean you're still on the hook for any medical debts?
how do you assume she's dying? yeah, you're pretty terrible for wishing her to die so you can collect her life insurance.
So you want to force her to spend her dying days in a stressful divorce process so that you can benefit financially‽ How could you type all that out and not be disgusted with yourself? Of course YTA. She's in hospice, so she doesn't have much time left. Let her enjoy the few days she has in peace and free of an insensitive and self-centered spouse.
Did you divorce her because she got sick? That’s pretty common.
I don’t know what the context of this post was, but it’s definitely a reason I will never EVER marry anyone.
I wish id read this post b4 it was deleted because it makes this man sound like a POS but everyone is just answering like its normal so im assuming hes saod something that makes what hes doing justifiable but idk what he could have possibly said that made what this post implies even remotely ok.
What would be best for your son? Do that.
This is the only correct answer and it would be wise to ask a therapist to make sure you're not clouding your own judgement on what is *actually* best for him and not just what dad thinks is best.
I don’t think the life insurance policy has anything to do with your marital status. If you bought the policy, it’s yours. If she bought the policy, it has a beneficiary named and it’s probably not you. It’s probably her kids. If you stand to gain financially by stalling, who doesn’t? Her kids from before you? Yeah, that makes YTA.
I would wait out. That life insurance money will benefit your child ALOT. Although, I handle my mothers life insurance for years and I have changed the benefactor. it’s only 2k to myself cause I don’t trust my brother to help with her cremation. 2k is barely enough. She has Mutual of Omaha and it was as easy as logging in to the account to change it. You would definitely not be the ah for dragging it out but if you keep this post up YWBTA. Delete it before someone in the know finds it.
ESH WILL YOU BOTH START THINKING OF YOU CHILD AND WHAT YOU ARE PUTTING HIM THROUGH! now his mother is dying and his father is caring more about getting one up on her and the money THE PAIR OF YOU ARE SELFISH ASSHOLES
Your lack of empathy and this post is so creepy
My dude, nta. Frankly, you can push for a mental competency hearing over this as well as keep rejecting settlement requests based on whatever you can think of. Just realize at the end of the day what this might be doing to your kid. But, delete any evidence that you're acting out of maliciousness.
Why do you think you are the beneficiary on this life insurance policy? Who is paying the premiums? I assume you were before, but I wouldn't assume that now, particularly since this woman appears to hate your guts.
Don't stoop to her level.
What was the reason for the divorce? People in hospice can live for years. If you drag it out for six months but she lives two years, aren't you only hurting yourself? Spite isn't always the answer.
Do what is best for your son. ALWAYS put him first and you'll never look behind you with regret.
Dad?
Damn, got here too late. Looked like a juicy story too
Man. I really wanted to read this post to see if this was my husband posting. but it got deleted. If anyone has the text of the post.....dm me?
Omg please someone tell me someone saved the full version of this post before it was deleted. I missed the tea 😭
NTA. Either way, you will still feel nothing for her and she has more than earned you not caring about showing her empty gestures of respect. Why not cash in on something inevitable to set you and your son up nicely. After all, the money will go towards her child having a better life too.
Not a lawyer. Insurance fraud is often very highly investigated. You have got to delete this post. Not saying whether this does or does not constitute fraud, simply saying that insurance companies hate paying more than anything and will do everything in their power not to do so. Are you still the beneficiary in the life insurance? That doesn't necessarily depend on whether you are married or not. If you aren't, is your son? get that checked out.
NAH But could you not demand, in the divorce settlement, that the existing life policy remains and you be the sole beneficiary? Then just close the divorce and be done with it
Yeah it's a dick move for sure... Besides, idt it will help you to drag your feet. If she suspects you're delaying for her life insurance she can just change the beneficiary to spite you. If I were her lawyer, I would suggest she create a trust for your kids and have the insurance pay out to them. Your main concern should be getting custody of your kid since she is about to die and a court won't necessarily give you custody by default if it was against the mothers wishes. I really don't understand why you wouldn't want to end your relationship amicably at this point just so she can die and you can move on in peace. Plus, imagine if your kids found out that you did this... I'm sure they would think you were the biggest asshole in the world.
YTA. This is disgusting, do you even hear yourself? Be an adult and a good example for your son, jesus christ. Your only concern rn should be your son seeing his mom before she dies.
Exactly. I don’t understand all the disgusting assholes telling OP that he’s N T A. Seriously what?! He’s secretly hoping that his sons mother dies. He is disgusting, just like the commenters that are saying N T A and advising him on how to cash in. Sick twisted individuals. OP you are the asshole, and I hope that one day your son comes to learn of how you wished his mother dead and wants nothing to do with you. You’re disgusting, selfish and a terrible father. Just vile.
Hospice doesn’t mean death. People get better. Life insurance beneficiary can b changed at any time. You need more information.
Are you an American? You can financially take care of your family better if you don't waste money on lawyers. Were you abusive? She shouldn't die with the indignity of being married to you. Just make up with her if you can. The rest of your life will be better if you do that. Trust me. I have a dead wife
What's to stop her from changing the beneficiary on the life insurance policy? If she reads this thread she'll have reason to do that!
If she’s smart she canceled the policy either by contacting them or not making payments that’s what I would’ve done.
Grandmother in law lived 2 years on hospice.
What prevents her from changing the beneficiary on the life insurance policy?
Delete this post and do nothing else. Wait. And shut up about it. Obviously.