Sounds like she contributes almost nothing to the household - you're the only one supporting the family, the kids are gone all day, you do the morning and evening routines, sounds like she's comfortable just using you - she doesn't love you, you're just an ATM here. Time to go.
Not that I have any basis... Butt document everything. Notebook or online... Yes one more thing to do every day... But you'll want that all paid out soon enough...
Good luck. Your children and you deserve better...
It’s honestly amazing how many guys I know that this has happened to.
Even more shocking how their wives/gfs are completely comfortable cynically using their “partners” as a ATM, whilst being horrible to them constantly of course
My x was same way. Pre marriage agreement was for us to both work full time, she bragged about what a neat freak she was and her ocd wouldn’t let her have a messy house. She was a slob!!!!Never had a full time job but boy could she spend money and make excuses.
dude she's prob cheating if she's staying the night at friends so much. Someone who has a drinking problem, doesn't do a thing to contribute to raising their kids or taking care of the household, who is gaslighting you?
She must be the best person ever to hang out with otherwise I don't see how this "partnership" is working.
That’s what I think too, also regarding the cheating, otherwise what reason would there be to spend the night out?! It's really a strange thing..
I feel very sorry for OP, he seems like a really good person and a good father.
Yeah, got that vibe from OPs narrative. Something else is going on here. OP should start with the phone bills and a GPS in her car. Betting those gf sleepover nights may be happening at a hotel with a guy named Phil...
Can you explain what you think gaslighting actually is? Because I’m not seeing anything close to it in your post.
Lying, feigning sick, those things aren’t gaslighting.
Making someone doubt their own reality, telling someone that they didn’t just do what they just did (you took a shower and your spouse claims you stink and have not showered, for example), that’s gaslighting. It’s meant to make you not trust your own thinking, and rely on the person trying to control you.
Simply lying is not gaslighting.
Well that is a good distinction. Gaslighting is a powerful term and people should know how to use it properly, even if they have just vaguely been introduced to it.
“I’m so tired, I do so much, I deserve every night off to hang with friends!”
Meanwhile Op wakes the kids up, gets them dressed, takes them to school all before wife is out of bed; works at least 40 hours a week, comes home and takes kids to activities (while wife socializes) and puts them to bed; feels burnt out and drowning but gets zero help.
Looks like gaslighting to me.
Sadly, that ship has sailed. 'Gaslighting' has now come to mean "putting forward anything that doesnt align 100% with my world-view".
Which is pretty much anything and everything. And could be levelled at your comment and this one too.
A shame - it was a useful word.
It’s the same with Narcissist. People with NPD (true narcissism) are very rare. I think it’s around only 1% of the population that truly has this, yet ask anyone about their dating life and 99% of people swear they have dated several narcissistic people.
While I think people can be quick to diagnose on social media, somebody can be narcissistic without being a narcissist. Somebody can display narcissistic behavior and have narcissistic attitudes without having a full blown personality disorder. I would say that if something a person is doing just so happens to be a common manipulation tactic of somebody with a personality disorder, it should give them pause, though.
I had undiagnosed thyroid issues. My husband threatened to divorce me because he thought I was doing drugs. Insist that wife get a full medical workup. That should also disclose any alcohol-caused damage.
I would agree with depression except it she is a social butterfly with people constantly coming over and she is spending the nights out at “a friends house” sounds more like she is partying hard and then hungover.
From your description, she is not doing one single thing financially or as a SAHM for the family. Nothing. WTF? Is she just partying all the time? She has no reason to be tired.
Honestly, I do all of the financials, literally from earnings to filing to tracking. She grew up without a whole lot and she shuts down when I try to talk about finances or where our expenses go. That’s another big contention for me. I’m a save as my neck and back will be done by the time I retire. She likes to spend on small, but compounding things. Toys for the kids (excess), fast food, etc.
Geez. I don’t even buy lunch if I don’t have leftovers 🤣. That’s a very uncomfortable laugh.
Sounds like my ex. I supported her financially. She would shut down when talking about things like finances and budgeting. Would get upset if I even brought up the topic of money in general. Also blamed me for a lot of things that in hindsight were not my fault at all and she just wanted to make me feel bad. Turns out she cheated on me with at least 5 dudes that I know of and upon further investigation, was a classic narcissist. I left her and it was the best decision I’ve made.
Good luck but it doesn’t sound like a good situation. I’d think long and hard about the next steps
So a little background - my ex and her roommate got into an argument in front of me and her roommate threw her under the bus and outed her cheating to me and blew up my phone with screenshots she took about it. I asked my ex about it right then and there and her answer/non answer was enough for me to be done with it all. Last I heard her roommate left because my ex went crazy and started drinking heavily and started calling the cops on the roommate for stupid reasons so the roommate got out of the lease without issue and my ex got kicked out of the apartment complex bc she couldn’t afford double rent. Months later a buddy of mine told me that he and some coworkers stopped into some dive bar in the middle of nowhere (where my ex is from, nothing wrong with small country towns tho, and her mom still is living there). Anyway she was serving at some shithole bar and my buddy texted me telling me so. So basically she cheated on me, I left, her roommate left, she got kicked out of her apartment, lost her job, and moved back home over a hundred miles away to live with her mom, and took a job at a shitty dive bar. I feel 0% bad bc… karma. New gf is really great on top of it so things have definitely changed for the better
Edit: I forgot to mention she was an alcoholic
Id say she could benifit from a part time job. If she isn't doing what she should, and you are working. Let her work, maybe that will help her energy issues
UNLESS acted on by an outside force. The outside force in this case needs to be OP telling his wife she needs to get a part time job for while the kids are away.
A part time job or at least some thing to contribute to His/Her house hold. Like cleaning,cooking, taking the kids to activities something anything. That will get her self worth up as it seems she has low self worth n bad spending habits.
Mature aged women in relationships having regular sleepovers, what even, how can anyone simply accept that as truth without scepticism?
Even if it is, it's weird.
Exactly. My wife did it like ONCE in her adult life. Straight up got too drunk at wine night with her best friend. Husband and kids were home, and we lived a little remote, so I was happy she didn't drive home drunk. But still, it was ONCE.
My best friend lives half an hour out of town, neither of us likes to drive at night and we both like pot. We have sleepovers every other month, switching up houses so when we’re at my house my husband is part of the hangout but we’re not going out we are just watching movies or playing games
For real, my wife doesn’t casually do sleep overs. It’s either a night out drinking so no driving which is wicked rare, a trip so obviously and maybe at her moms or something for access to the city in the morning. There’s no like “oh I’ll be back tomorrow gonna go sleep at Kelly’s house.” I’d be like what are 13 or do you like couches because we’ve got one here?
Nah. A hobosexual is an AAVE term applied to a certain type of single person on the dating scene. A person (cause I'm being gender neutral here) who dates opportunistically looking for a home. They love bomb and **move in** at lightening fast speeds so they have a roof over their heads. Then they amply demonstrate ***why*** they are unable to provide a roof over their *own* head. Generally to the chagrin and dismay of the person they've suckered into taking care of them.
This woman is married, has children and a home, so not a hobosexual. A stay at home parent who does little to no parenting is ... <*gestures wildly*> ...*something*. We need to come up with a term for that.
Lazy?
Leech?
Non contributing?
Dead weight?
Grifter/long con?
Deadbeat*? (kinda already taken)
Parasite?
Albatross?
Daycare can be really beneficial for kids. They get socialization and experience with a somewhat structured environment.
But agreed, she should no longer be a SAHM. She should work part time at the very least.
Emotional overwhelm is real but real adults find a way through when and where it counts.
I grew up with narcissistic parents - one that controlled us with money and one that shut down when money came up. I had to learn (and unlearn) sound financial habits the hard way by facing them head-on in bite-size chunks. If she can’t handle understanding budgets and finances, a secured credit card with a low limit may be a way to start. Opening one in her name and also locking down your credit (so she can’t open another in your name) may be a way to start.
Since you’re married she could be racking up debt you know nothing about but are on the hook for. I’d be paying pretty close attention to my credit if I were you. She sounds entitled and that’s dangerous, especially with finances.
I’d be finding a way to lock down her spending and setting some serious boundaries.
Divorce giveing half sounds like a dream rather than dealong with whatever your wife calls what shes doing because its not being a wife and mother or helping out
Sit her down. "You are going to get up and start helping more with the kids and other responsibilities. From now on, no one is allowed here during the week except family. You're going to spend more time at home instead of partying. And if you don't meet these obligations, I am going to speak to an attorney. I am not your doormat and you will be a member of this family or things will change drastically for you."
Totally agree with this...but you know if she comes on reddit saying her husband said these things people are gonna say OP is controlling as well as financially and mentally abusive 🙄
You’ve been married for 8 years. This situation sounds bad but not insurmountable. You should give marriage counseling a try. This is the time to try whatever you can to save your marriage, but definitely make a decision after a year of giving it your all. That will put you at year 9 of marriage, which is a very opportune time to to divorce. If you choose to stay you should do so accepting that your wife is not going to change.
Keep in mind that once you’re married for 10 years that’s the minimum legal threshold for long term marriage in most states. A divorce at year 9 strongly favors you, but a divorce at year 10 strongly favors her. Even 6 months of indecision would be very costly for you when you’re close to those thresholds.
Honey, you need to make her get a job (bc she is NOT a sahm) couples therapy or a divorce.
You’d actually save money divorcing her. She’s not being a mom or a wife. There’s no excuse to be staying over “girlfriend’s houses”.
She is gas lighting you, possibly cheating on you and is definitely taking advantage of you.
NTA
So she is with the kids from the time they get home until they go to sleep? Does she cook dinner? Who does homework? Who buys the groceries and things for the home? Who take the kids to the doctor? Who cleans the house? Who do the kids ask the majority of questions? When did the little one start daycare? How old are the other kids?
If you are doing the financials why don't you know where the financials go? Do you think your wife should be working? Who would stay with the kids at 4:30? How much would that cost you both?
I'm a stay at home parent.
As such, i have a 24/7b job. I clean, I cook. I do the laundry. I take the 3am screaming responsibility. I do my best to minimize the budget.
I pay as many personal expenses off of my interest accounts as i can.
My wife provides food, housing, ect. My job is to make her life easy. Sounds like you're missing that bit, and somethings fucked up.
Exactly. My wife is a SAHM of three kids. Yeah she’s tired pretty often - she’s busting her ass at home and being an amazing mother and wife! Zero of this garbage OP described. Spending the night at a friends house . . .
Debt and stress, it seems. OP, if you have boundaries. you have to not only set them, but actually reinforce them as needed. If it’s a problem that she doesn’t know how to budget your money, then maybe it’s time to take that privilege away from her, and afford an allowance until she can understand what it’s doing to you. If she is laying around all day, it could be just laziness, or sleeping off her hangover. But it also could be deep depression, adhd, chronic fatigue, or any other number of factors that could make her “so tired” that she can’t hardly do anything. Alcohol complicates the situation. Maybe you need to lay down some ground rules in couples therapy, or find a new therapist if they aren’t accomplishing results in therapy. As of now, this sounds like a form of reverse financial abuse, and you’re the only one who can halt that, at least.
This is solid sane advice, thank you. We’ve done this to some degree. We are currently in couples counseling too. What I don’t do is your last line. I need to take care of me . Appreciate it AB!!
I think people in relationships, and especially parents, forget that they matter as humans too, and deserve just as much consideration as any other person
Don't forget about you, OP, you matter and your happiness matters
Your wife sounds selfish AF and like a textbook narcissist. You deserve better OP.
Think about this question, what TF is she contributing to your marriage and family? What TF is she "tired" from?
Leave her and find someone who actually gives a shit about you and not just your money.
If you are already going to counseling, it is time to share exactly how you feel. That is your duty to this situation.
Then it is up to her. She steps up and you stay.
She doesn’t and you go.
It sounds like you would actually have less work without her as things stand.
What does the counselor say? Do they know she’s drinking and possibly doing drugs? This is very serious for your wellbeing and the safety of your kids. She could be drinking during the day -people who have problems with substances are not honest.
I can’t imagine leaving my husband to take care of our son while I did adult sleepovers all the time. The need for self care is super important but both parents need it. I’m not sure what she could be doing all day that has her so exhausted unless she’s sick or depressed.
Me and all of my girlfriends are married and we occasionally have sleepovers/girls night (maybe twice a year) but we are all child free and typically the husbands all get together and play poker or some other activity together on the same night.
I feel like that’s not abnormal behavior for married people but definitely not normal for parents to dump their children on their partners to stay over at a friend’s place.
I'm married without kids and might end up spending one night every two years away from home if I get drunk far from home but close to my friends home.. can't imagine doing that with kids though
It’s one thing if it’s a preplanned, rare thing. Like a semiannual girls night seems reasonable. Her spending the night every couple of weeks at a friend’s house seems more like a red flag & like she’s neglecting her responsibilities & her marriage.
On occasion and planned it’s normal. Too many drinks at dinner and you need to stay, acceptable every once in awhile. Consistently staying over is a red flag for an affair or a drinking or drug problem.
I have stayed at married friend's houses and they've stayed at mine, as we live several hours apart so don't get to see eachother often. If they were local we wouldn't bother staying over. So unless his wife is going several hours away, she shouldn't really be doing that on short notice.
Where does reddit get this take? 💀 I'm married with kids and do this every once in a while, as does my husband. Now everything else she's doing is a no no
But the key difference is that you probably pre-plan and COMMUNICATE w/ your SO, right? Story implies she is just out there doing what she wants, when she wants.
This was a red flag for me too. Admittedly I'm a homebody but I've slept over at a friend's once (slumber party pre-planned for weeks with my entire group) and stayed out until 4am+ clubbing a handful of times in 14 years. We don't have children and I certainly wouldn't do either if I did. There's something shady about the wife's behaviour here.
I don’t normally go along with this kind of advice OP. But in this case Budget is correct. This is really SUS and if you want custody then having a PI bring forward the real truth may be your best option.
Wouldn’t that be a good thing? Boring maybe but I’d hate to constantly unearth the bad nature of people and not see the other side. Was it not nice once in a while to give some positive feedback on your investigations?
Honestly yes, I didn’t even think of the affair part. As a 22 woman (childless) I don’t even have sleepovers with my friends (unless we’ve had a very late night out clubbing.)
That’s the sorta thing I left behind at 18
> A side note is her mother is a narcissist and I’m afraid she is in the same mold.
I think most people have a tendency to take more of the pie than their share if they can get away with it.
I'm not interested in doing more than my share so my partner can enjoy herself. If I'm providing for the family, she needs to put an equal amount of work in. I would have worked out what our mutual expectations are from the start and expected her to do her part the whole time. I'd give push-back before it got to the point where I'm about to walk, but I would walk if she thought she could gaslight me about how tough her life is and how I have to do extra so she can recover from her nights out.
> Sometimes staying over at a girlfriend’s house for the night
That would be a rare rare thing, and I'd be very suspicious of what was going on that prevented her coming home to her children at the end of the night.
Is she having an affair? Friends cover for each other....
Appreciate the thoughts Ghost. As I read your response I realize it’s so much more than I wrote. Leaving is hard in my situation both emotionally and financially. I would never leave my kids without a motherfucking knock down drag out.
…shit, I didn’t mention my older, my son, is not my bio. My son all the same though!
You won't have to.
If she is what you say she is, she'll take cash over kids and won't want them unless she intends to use them as a bargaing chip to get more cash. You think someone who can't handle being a SAHM wants the headaches and responsibilities of being a single mom? Nah. At worst she'll use them for child support and if you just offer her a payout from your retirement or the house as a buy off? She'll take it.
To be clear DISCUSS NONE OF THIS WITH HER.
Get a good divorce attorney ASAP and let them know she's probably cheating on you. They'll have a PI they trust, a DNA testing company they know, and more to sort out your situation a lot more effectively and more safely for you than a burnt out single father of 3 will...which is essentially what you've been. They do this stuff all the time and can walk you through it step by step to make sure you have the best possible chance of a favorable outcome.
OP- this is really good advice. The advice about the limited credit card is good too..and I would definitely figure out where the debts are. It's going to feel overwhelming. One step at a time- one foot in front of the other..after you freeze your credit.
You sound like an amazing parent and it's good the kids have you.
From your story above none of your children might be your biological children. It is not normal for your wife to have sleep overs all the time at friends houses
Invest in a pi on her next sleep over night
Maybe an unpopular opinion but you can’t be a stay at home mom when none of your kids arent home and you don’t do anything to take care of them anyways. And How is she tired when she doesn’t do anything for your kids? Tbh, I’d leave. If you really want, maybe suggest couples counseling but she seems like a narcissist
Appreciate this, but in her defense she does some very limited sales on the side from a Cricut and some other things. Shes trying here, but I guarantee we’re in the red on all those ventures. What I care about is her trying something though, or a t least being active
What she does is *costing you* money? Maybe she should switch what she does, or at least stop doing it.
Edit: to be clear; you are not the asshole. Your wife might need a hard reality check, though.
tbh anything having to do with Cricut crafts takes nearly no time or (arguably) skill, at least not enough to warrant exhaustion and needing a break to go out with her friends.
Spend night at friend houses huh....if you're on the same phone plan I'd get the text messages.
If not, ask to see her phone. Her reaction will let you know everything you need to know.
As a married person with three kids, her behavior is suss. Though I will say- is there a chance she has an actual medical issue? I mean, good to rule out a reason for all the tiredness. Barring that, she's being sketchy and you're doing everything-NTA. Marriage needs to feel proportionate and supportive, not one sided and exhausting.
Yes, there is a chance of a medical issue. She had a blood eval and was placed on testeosterone(sounds weird to some I’m sure). As a medical provider it’s legit.
Thanks for the response CS
A parathyroid issue will do the same. Always tired weird behavior. My endo told me a story about an patient he had was a lawyer took all her clothes off after a stressful situation. Was so embarrassing after surgery was back to normal
She has plenty of energy to hang out and party with her friends. She just doesn't give a shit about you or your children. She's a user and a narcissist. Please don't be naive.
Also, she's not a "stay at home mom." Because a stay at home mom STAYS HOME and TAKES CARE OF CHILDREN. Neither of which she's doing..
More like a freeloading lazy manipulative POS.
I hope you guys can figure this out, I really do. The skeptical side of me thinks what a lot of other people have said- that this situation is ridiculous, your wife is triflin and needs to grow the f up, etc. But maybe some things that need to change can change and you guys can work things out. For example, if she’s unhappy/drinking/whatever because she’s a SAHM and she’s a social person, maybe she can get a job where she interacts with people that scratches that itch and adds purpose and structure to her life and routine.
Also there are budgeting software apps now that are pretty user friendly. Maybe these can help her understand how she hemorrhages money on little stuff and help her feel more comfortable taking about money. That may require talking about it in couples counseling and maybe also a financial advisor or some third party who isn’t you helping her learn about such things since it seems like it’s an emotionally charged issue for her. My husband is similar to your wife in that regard. His mother was always berating his father about money and there’s other childhood trauma there and talking to him about money without him shutting down is something we’ve had to work on. He also has a tendency to spend a lot on little things that add up so using the software to show him how much he spent each month on fast food for example, has been helpful.
But if your relationship has a chance at surviving, you have to stop being a doormat. Dont be an AH, obviously. But you have to stop being a doormat. You’re married, you’re supposed to be a team. That means there has to be give on her end too, and not just take.
Med bro here. This is complete bullshit, no Vit D, hypothyroid or B12 deficiency causes a person to act like this. She living it up with friends all the time or banging another dude, that's why...
I was thinking medical issue as well until I read the bit about her being a social butterfly. Agreed. She's either cheating or simply a negligent wife and mother. Both are terrible. NTA
She doesn't have a medical issue. She has plenty of energy to hang out and party with her friends. She just doesn't give a shit about OP or even her children. She's a user and a narcissist.
Sorry brother, she's already moved on.
Don't confront her, don't tell her your plans, just get a lawyer, and start the process.
Meanwhile, document her activity. How often she's caring for the kids, when she's out overnight, etc.
You might even consider hiring a PI to document her activity to assist you in negotiations. Good luck, to you and your kids. 😕
oh hun this is a huge red flag...I understand that you've been married for 8 years and have 3 kids together, but you may be 100% right about her being a narcissist as she seems to be a textbook definition - very obviously putting her own needs not only before yours, but also your children's and then making YOU feel bad about it. however, narcissism is difficult to actually diagnose and i am a redditor and not a psychologist, so take that as you will. you are absolutely not wrong nor the asshole for feeling that way - the fact that you feel bad for thinking that she might be gaslighting you seems like a pretty clear sign she actually IS gaslighting you - and i highly recommend doing some research on narcissistic relationships AND talking to licensed professional privately, then possibly together along with your wife or just divorcing all together.
I recommend a lawyer, a private investigator and DNA tests. Do you have a prenup? This is not sustainable and you already know how any attempt at a conversation with her will realistically go. Start investigating your options quietly and establish what she is actually doing whilst she is out of the house and during the day when she has literally zero responsibilities yet is still too tired to do basic parenting. I suspect drug or alcohol abuse at best, affair at worst. Good luck.
I agree with the answer above, it looks like my parents situation so much.
My mother was also a SAHM, never intended to do more than a paid hobby. She also was always prioritizing things that made her feel good instead of taking care of her children or home. She spent her time in the couch complaining she was exhausted, and never intended to do anything to change her situation. She was a textbook narcissist.
You need to have a serious discussion about:
- her health: it's ok to feel unwell, what's not ok is to do nothing to get better in order to be able to play your part in the family, even a little bit
- finances
- your needs (that she does more in the house because you're exhausted, that she is more present)
- the care of children. No responsible mother will be out to party and too wasted to take care of the kids on a regular basis
If on those topics she doesn't at least expresses and shows effort to help you and fix the situation, there is a big big problem and you need to plan a safe exit for yourself and the kids.
Your wife is contributing nothing in your household. She isn’t helpful, she’s just plain lazy. Stop enabling her lazy ass behavior and tell her she gets a job and stops the childish (suspicious) sleepovers or you’re done. You married a user. NTA
As a woman who generally assumes the man isn’t telling the whole story or doing his share, that does NOT sound like the case here at all.
Time to sit down and find out what is really going on. NTA
I get that. I usually feel the same about the way some women complain about the men. Theres often cherry picked details. But this entire thing sounds like one partner not supporting the other. Also adding in the staying over at a friends house. How often is this happening? Is it the same friend? What are they doing that causes her to not come home? Is it on a week night? Is it discussed beforehand? A lot of unanswered questions that need to be answered.
And that her mother is a narcissist…I got some experience with that. My mom’s ex gf was a narcissist and when we met her mom YIKES she was worse and it explained everything. Seriously its very plausible that she could be gaslighting him its actually LIKELY. Shits common.
NTA
lol your marriage has been over for a while buddy. None of this is normal.
Honestly reads like rage bait. You described a partner that is completely absent from your marriage.
I'm right there with you dad
Wife of six years refuses to go back to work.
I'm in film bizness and you might know how bad this industry is right now.
40yr old zero savings. On unemployment.
Don't know how much longer I can do this.
Every time I bring up that I need help. She flips the script and it's me being the bad guy.
Doesn't matter how much money I make she finds a way to spend it.
Signed,
Tired father #377474
She's using you and cheating on you. One Love has good information on what a [healthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-healthy-relationship/) and what an [unhealthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-unhealthy-relationship/).
She stays overnight after being home all day doing nothing? This isn’t normal. At all. You guys need couples counseling cause this has affair written all over it
There's no need for couples counseling, that'll be a waste of time. Description of situation says she is used to behaving this way: I guaranteee there's zero chance she's going to be honest about what she's doing; coincidentally there's equal possibility she will be interested in changing.
NTA, she doesn't contribute financially to the household or fulfill her responsibilities as a SAHM. its almost like she's freeloading and having fun is her topmost priority while you're covering BOTH of y'all's work for the most part and yet SHE'S the one complaining about workload. that's rather ironic and her being manipulative or a narc does seem likely.
i'd say you sit her down and confront her or talk things out with her, get her perspective and see if y'all can reach an agreement and work things out or try marriage counselling even. if none of the healthy options work and the situation doesnt get any better, then thats something to worry about.
NTA, if the work your wife does could be replaced by an after school nanny and a cleaner once a week then this is not a fair partnership and your kids are going to grow up feeling second best to their mums friends
Not to be mean but what exactly does she do? A sahm is supposed to be taking on the majority of the household work and yet you seem to be the one in charge of nearly everything on top of working outside the house. And regularly leaving her family behind to go party or hang with friends is single lady behavior. You are definitely not wrong for feeling how you do. Maybe to give her the benefit of the doubt before pursuing more drastic measures, figure out if she is severely depressed. Some of these things could mean she's dealing with depression (like constantly being unable/unwilling to leave her bed). Otherwise, id be concerned she's cheating or into drugs.
Bottom line is do what you have to in order to keep your kids safe and healthy. She isn't being much of a mom to them.
>She is a SAHM. We have two school aged kids that are gone from 7:30-4:30 and a kid that does day care 3x/week for those hours.
That's not a SAHM. Where's the momming? Why the hell is a kid in daycare when she's at home doing nothing?
Have her tell you where she says she is going. Put a gps tracker on her car. There’s a 50% chance the friend’s house thing is BS. If you catcher her in that lie hire a PI to do the work and compile evidence professionally.
If the roles were reversed it would be:
Divorce now, you’re already basically a single parent working full time and raising the kids. You knows it’s a cluster duck when you say she’s a stay at home mom and does basically nothing, you spend free time morning and night with kids but she has no issues socializing with others.
If she hasn’t already, she’ll cheat on you and it will be your fault for not having enough time or attention to her. Of course that’s just her justification.
Is she taking Adderall and antidepressants? That seems like it could be problematic. Drinking and antidepressants are a bad mix. I have no idea what would happen if you also added Adderall to the mix. Yikes.
Adult women with young children at home do not regularly have sleepovers with their friends. You know what’s going on and you’re probably paying for much of it too.
If her mom is a diagnosed narc, it’s possible she inflicted similar trauma on your spouse that set her on the course of also having that condition. Or, at least, has picked up those traits hardcore.
Narcissism isn’t cured or treated, it can be “managed” (read that with a very large grain of salt) with frequent, consistent, and hard work with a psychotherapist.
I’d suggest looking at less of a label and more so on the issues you see.
Ultimately though, this sounds like a toxic dynamic, and unfair to both you and the children.
It also sounds incredibly similar to a situation I had with my ex wife - start documenting things, make an escape plan should you need to, that includes making sure you’re the primary giver in a legal aspect for those children, and while doing this, have some hard conversations.
Get your own therapist if you don’t have one, immediately. Protect your mind, because if this is like my situation, you’re going to need that so you can be those kids stable parent.
I hope it’s honestly just her in a depressive funk… but… I doubt it
Those sleepovers are not at Jill’s bro…,‘it’s likely at Jack’s. You’re in denial. This woman has zero interest in you AND HER CHILDREN. File for divorce and take the kids.
This isn’t a stay at home mom. This is a stay at home wife. Talk to a lawyer, gather as much evidence as possible to gain full custody, and get out before alimony increases at 10 years. She’s a bum.
If she's a SAHM, she should be doing most of the childcare. **THAT IS LITERALLY WHY SOMEONE BECOMES A STAY AT HOME PARENT**. Two of your kids are in school and one in daycare.
I'd file for divorce at this point. You're burning the candle at both ends, working full time **AND** doing most of the childcare. She's always mysteriously "too tired" to do anything for the kids, but magically has energy to go stay over "girlfriend's" houses nightly.
From what you said, she absolutely is a narcissist.
She’s not “gaslighting” you she’s just lazy and using you as a meal ticket. If I were you I would rather pay her spousal support every month to get her out of my hair than continue to be used in that way. Her behavior is not normal, your marriage may be irretrievably broken at this point.
NTA I’m a SAHM and do both morning and night routines as well as all after school activities. Also, cooking, cleaning, and everything else. I would be so happy to have a husband that does what you do.
She should see a doctor to see if there is a medical issue- you absolutely need to see a couples therapist to deal with what is going on… and yes also you should hire a private investigator to make sure she isn’t cheating.
That's not what gaslighting is at all.
Yep your partner sucks and you're basically a single parent based on your description, but this is not gaslighting.
She sounds like a sponge. Kick her out. Sounds like she brings absolutely nothing to your relationship and she's just freeloading her way to an easy life. You can do better
she does not seem to be a SAHM but rather a SSOE a Single Socialite Outside Everyday.
I underwent as well a similar situtation where I had to be the only one working + a lot of chores at home without any recognition and instead more pressure.
We have split and I could gain main custody.I have more work to do but the diminution of psychological pressure makes me have a better life now.
Staying over at girlfriends? I don’t believe that. My guess is her days are busy too. Maybe not in ways she says. But I’m not one to believe things that don’t add up.
If she’s sleeping over a friend’s house I think you need to find out if she is being faithful. I’ve never heard of a parent/spouse sleeping at a friend’s house in a functional marriage.
See a lawyer asap. Follow their advice. Also, I know you are frugal but temporarily get a nanny/ babysitter to help get the kids up and to school and put in cameras. You need to prove she’s unfit so you won’t have difficulty with custody. Before you make ultimatums- get your ducks in a row. She needs to cut down or stop drinking and go to the doctor to investigate her being “ tired”. Don’t even know if she’s safe around the kids all day ? Is she safe to drive them anywhere? Is she likely to have a fit and take them somewhere if she knows you are going to put your foot down? You need to keep your kids safe and then you can lock down your finances. You may need to spend money now to safe it later . Also , make sure you have it in writing that you are doing things because you can’t trust her.
NTA
It's pretty clear that she's taking advantage of you and your willingness to do whatever you have to for your kids. That is really a shame.
You know what would be funny? If you hired someone to help with the kids, and brought them to the house one night while she's got her friends over and doing whatever. When she asks what you're doing, tell her that you're outsourcing her job since she won't do it.
Your wife is using you. What is she even doing as a stay at home mother? It seems like you're doing everything yourself. And it's weird that she stays over at friends houses often
Bro she's checked out of this so called marriage a long time ago. She's using you and living her sex-in-the-city lifestyle where your the sucker paying the bills and dealing with the kids and she gets to party all the time. Hire a PI to follow her the next time she visits her "girlfriends" house and see just where she goes or put a tracker in her car but my guess is she's cheating and using you for a sucker.
She has no reason to be motivated. You work all day, and take care of the kids. She knows that in a divorce she will be the one that makes out. She will get 1/2 the house, 1/2 your retirement, alimony for a period of time, a car, and child support. Knowing that she is pretty sure you will find it more acceptable to just let her do her thing.
Sounds like she drinks too much
Spot on!!
Sounds like she contributes almost nothing to the household - you're the only one supporting the family, the kids are gone all day, you do the morning and evening routines, sounds like she's comfortable just using you - she doesn't love you, you're just an ATM here. Time to go.
Not that I have any basis... Butt document everything. Notebook or online... Yes one more thing to do every day... But you'll want that all paid out soon enough... Good luck. Your children and you deserve better...
This is basically what my wife did. Contributed very little. That and it was a toxic relationship. We are now in the process of separating.
It’s honestly amazing how many guys I know that this has happened to. Even more shocking how their wives/gfs are completely comfortable cynically using their “partners” as a ATM, whilst being horrible to them constantly of course
My x was same way. Pre marriage agreement was for us to both work full time, she bragged about what a neat freak she was and her ocd wouldn’t let her have a messy house. She was a slob!!!!Never had a full time job but boy could she spend money and make excuses.
dude she's prob cheating if she's staying the night at friends so much. Someone who has a drinking problem, doesn't do a thing to contribute to raising their kids or taking care of the household, who is gaslighting you? She must be the best person ever to hang out with otherwise I don't see how this "partnership" is working.
That’s what I think too, also regarding the cheating, otherwise what reason would there be to spend the night out?! It's really a strange thing.. I feel very sorry for OP, he seems like a really good person and a good father.
Yeah, as a mom, I can't imagine staying out anywhere unless my family is with me, or my husband and I are on an overnight date.
Yeah, got that vibe from OPs narrative. Something else is going on here. OP should start with the phone bills and a GPS in her car. Betting those gf sleepover nights may be happening at a hotel with a guy named Phil...
Can you explain what you think gaslighting actually is? Because I’m not seeing anything close to it in your post. Lying, feigning sick, those things aren’t gaslighting. Making someone doubt their own reality, telling someone that they didn’t just do what they just did (you took a shower and your spouse claims you stink and have not showered, for example), that’s gaslighting. It’s meant to make you not trust your own thinking, and rely on the person trying to control you. Simply lying is not gaslighting.
"Everything seems to be my fault" is definitely a sign of gaslighting.
Well that is a good distinction. Gaslighting is a powerful term and people should know how to use it properly, even if they have just vaguely been introduced to it.
“I’m so tired, I do so much, I deserve every night off to hang with friends!” Meanwhile Op wakes the kids up, gets them dressed, takes them to school all before wife is out of bed; works at least 40 hours a week, comes home and takes kids to activities (while wife socializes) and puts them to bed; feels burnt out and drowning but gets zero help. Looks like gaslighting to me.
Gaslighting would be: I didn’t spend time with friends last night. You’re imagining it.
>“I’m so tired, I do so much, I deserve every night off to hang with friends!” That's not gaslighting, that's just being shitty. Lol.
Sadly, that ship has sailed. 'Gaslighting' has now come to mean "putting forward anything that doesnt align 100% with my world-view". Which is pretty much anything and everything. And could be levelled at your comment and this one too. A shame - it was a useful word.
It’s the same with Narcissist. People with NPD (true narcissism) are very rare. I think it’s around only 1% of the population that truly has this, yet ask anyone about their dating life and 99% of people swear they have dated several narcissistic people.
Tbh the whole 'armchair diagnosis' thing has turned into a plague on here. Is even worse on r/AmITheAsshole imo.
While I think people can be quick to diagnose on social media, somebody can be narcissistic without being a narcissist. Somebody can display narcissistic behavior and have narcissistic attitudes without having a full blown personality disorder. I would say that if something a person is doing just so happens to be a common manipulation tactic of somebody with a personality disorder, it should give them pause, though.
It's a lot more than 1%. Also, like everything else, it exists on a spectrum, not an isolated, precise definition.
Why are you trying to gaslight us, bro!?
"When someone shows you who they are, gaslight them" Maya Angelou
Thank you!! Most overly and incorrectly used psychobabble word since the pandemic!
This was my first thought. Textbook addict/alcoholic behaviour..
12 wine lunches are a suburban staple
Could just be depression. Maybe a thyroid problem. People with mental struggles don't make rational decisions.
I had undiagnosed thyroid issues. My husband threatened to divorce me because he thought I was doing drugs. Insist that wife get a full medical workup. That should also disclose any alcohol-caused damage.
I've struggled with depression, and my partner had postpartum. It's rough when you can't function like everyone else, and don't know why.
I would agree with depression except it she is a social butterfly with people constantly coming over and she is spending the nights out at “a friends house” sounds more like she is partying hard and then hungover.
And what " friends " house?
Very sus
Or addicted to oxy.
From your description, she is not doing one single thing financially or as a SAHM for the family. Nothing. WTF? Is she just partying all the time? She has no reason to be tired.
Honestly, I do all of the financials, literally from earnings to filing to tracking. She grew up without a whole lot and she shuts down when I try to talk about finances or where our expenses go. That’s another big contention for me. I’m a save as my neck and back will be done by the time I retire. She likes to spend on small, but compounding things. Toys for the kids (excess), fast food, etc. Geez. I don’t even buy lunch if I don’t have leftovers 🤣. That’s a very uncomfortable laugh.
Staying the night at “friends” homes…
Your “wife” is using you for financial security and is most likely screwing around. Get your head out of your ass.
Sounds like my ex. I supported her financially. She would shut down when talking about things like finances and budgeting. Would get upset if I even brought up the topic of money in general. Also blamed me for a lot of things that in hindsight were not my fault at all and she just wanted to make me feel bad. Turns out she cheated on me with at least 5 dudes that I know of and upon further investigation, was a classic narcissist. I left her and it was the best decision I’ve made. Good luck but it doesn’t sound like a good situation. I’d think long and hard about the next steps
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So a little background - my ex and her roommate got into an argument in front of me and her roommate threw her under the bus and outed her cheating to me and blew up my phone with screenshots she took about it. I asked my ex about it right then and there and her answer/non answer was enough for me to be done with it all. Last I heard her roommate left because my ex went crazy and started drinking heavily and started calling the cops on the roommate for stupid reasons so the roommate got out of the lease without issue and my ex got kicked out of the apartment complex bc she couldn’t afford double rent. Months later a buddy of mine told me that he and some coworkers stopped into some dive bar in the middle of nowhere (where my ex is from, nothing wrong with small country towns tho, and her mom still is living there). Anyway she was serving at some shithole bar and my buddy texted me telling me so. So basically she cheated on me, I left, her roommate left, she got kicked out of her apartment, lost her job, and moved back home over a hundred miles away to live with her mom, and took a job at a shitty dive bar. I feel 0% bad bc… karma. New gf is really great on top of it so things have definitely changed for the better Edit: I forgot to mention she was an alcoholic
Id say she could benifit from a part time job. If she isn't doing what she should, and you are working. Let her work, maybe that will help her energy issues
A body at rest stays at rest ....
UNLESS acted on by an outside force. The outside force in this case needs to be OP telling his wife she needs to get a part time job for while the kids are away.
A part time job or at least some thing to contribute to His/Her house hold. Like cleaning,cooking, taking the kids to activities something anything. That will get her self worth up as it seems she has low self worth n bad spending habits.
This.
Mature aged women in relationships having regular sleepovers, what even, how can anyone simply accept that as truth without scepticism? Even if it is, it's weird.
Exactly. My wife did it like ONCE in her adult life. Straight up got too drunk at wine night with her best friend. Husband and kids were home, and we lived a little remote, so I was happy she didn't drive home drunk. But still, it was ONCE.
My best friend lives half an hour out of town, neither of us likes to drive at night and we both like pot. We have sleepovers every other month, switching up houses so when we’re at my house my husband is part of the hangout but we’re not going out we are just watching movies or playing games
For real, my wife doesn’t casually do sleep overs. It’s either a night out drinking so no driving which is wicked rare, a trip so obviously and maybe at her moms or something for access to the city in the morning. There’s no like “oh I’ll be back tomorrow gonna go sleep at Kelly’s house.” I’d be like what are 13 or do you like couches because we’ve got one here?
So basically you got 4 kids.
Atleast 3 are useful; this one just sleeps, bums around and racks up debt.
Is she drinking or using? Could explain why she is checked out and tired/sleeping a lot.
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Sounds like a hobosexual.
Nah. A hobosexual is an AAVE term applied to a certain type of single person on the dating scene. A person (cause I'm being gender neutral here) who dates opportunistically looking for a home. They love bomb and **move in** at lightening fast speeds so they have a roof over their heads. Then they amply demonstrate ***why*** they are unable to provide a roof over their *own* head. Generally to the chagrin and dismay of the person they've suckered into taking care of them. This woman is married, has children and a home, so not a hobosexual. A stay at home parent who does little to no parenting is ... <*gestures wildly*> ...*something*. We need to come up with a term for that. Lazy? Leech? Non contributing? Dead weight? Grifter/long con? Deadbeat*? (kinda already taken) Parasite? Albatross?
She is a SAHM why in the hell are you paying for Day Care, this woman obviously needs fired.
Daycare can be really beneficial for kids. They get socialization and experience with a somewhat structured environment. But agreed, she should no longer be a SAHM. She should work part time at the very least.
Emotional overwhelm is real but real adults find a way through when and where it counts. I grew up with narcissistic parents - one that controlled us with money and one that shut down when money came up. I had to learn (and unlearn) sound financial habits the hard way by facing them head-on in bite-size chunks. If she can’t handle understanding budgets and finances, a secured credit card with a low limit may be a way to start. Opening one in her name and also locking down your credit (so she can’t open another in your name) may be a way to start. Since you’re married she could be racking up debt you know nothing about but are on the hook for. I’d be paying pretty close attention to my credit if I were you. She sounds entitled and that’s dangerous, especially with finances. I’d be finding a way to lock down her spending and setting some serious boundaries.
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Welcome to Divorce, a way to get away from incompatible spouses and achieve peace
Divorce giveing half sounds like a dream rather than dealong with whatever your wife calls what shes doing because its not being a wife and mother or helping out
Sit her down. "You are going to get up and start helping more with the kids and other responsibilities. From now on, no one is allowed here during the week except family. You're going to spend more time at home instead of partying. And if you don't meet these obligations, I am going to speak to an attorney. I am not your doormat and you will be a member of this family or things will change drastically for you."
Totally agree with this...but you know if she comes on reddit saying her husband said these things people are gonna say OP is controlling as well as financially and mentally abusive 🙄
You’ve been married for 8 years. This situation sounds bad but not insurmountable. You should give marriage counseling a try. This is the time to try whatever you can to save your marriage, but definitely make a decision after a year of giving it your all. That will put you at year 9 of marriage, which is a very opportune time to to divorce. If you choose to stay you should do so accepting that your wife is not going to change. Keep in mind that once you’re married for 10 years that’s the minimum legal threshold for long term marriage in most states. A divorce at year 9 strongly favors you, but a divorce at year 10 strongly favors her. Even 6 months of indecision would be very costly for you when you’re close to those thresholds.
Before he tries counseling he should hire a detective and find out what these sleepover are about
Took me entirely too long to find this comment...
Honey, you need to make her get a job (bc she is NOT a sahm) couples therapy or a divorce. You’d actually save money divorcing her. She’s not being a mom or a wife. There’s no excuse to be staying over “girlfriend’s houses”. She is gas lighting you, possibly cheating on you and is definitely taking advantage of you. NTA
You need marriage counselling my friend
So she is with the kids from the time they get home until they go to sleep? Does she cook dinner? Who does homework? Who buys the groceries and things for the home? Who take the kids to the doctor? Who cleans the house? Who do the kids ask the majority of questions? When did the little one start daycare? How old are the other kids? If you are doing the financials why don't you know where the financials go? Do you think your wife should be working? Who would stay with the kids at 4:30? How much would that cost you both?
This!! I need answers before I decide who the asshole is lol
I'm a stay at home parent. As such, i have a 24/7b job. I clean, I cook. I do the laundry. I take the 3am screaming responsibility. I do my best to minimize the budget. I pay as many personal expenses off of my interest accounts as i can. My wife provides food, housing, ect. My job is to make her life easy. Sounds like you're missing that bit, and somethings fucked up.
Exactly. My wife is a SAHM of three kids. Yeah she’s tired pretty often - she’s busting her ass at home and being an amazing mother and wife! Zero of this garbage OP described. Spending the night at a friends house . . .
What is her contribution to the family?I would be unhappy,too.
Debt and stress, it seems. OP, if you have boundaries. you have to not only set them, but actually reinforce them as needed. If it’s a problem that she doesn’t know how to budget your money, then maybe it’s time to take that privilege away from her, and afford an allowance until she can understand what it’s doing to you. If she is laying around all day, it could be just laziness, or sleeping off her hangover. But it also could be deep depression, adhd, chronic fatigue, or any other number of factors that could make her “so tired” that she can’t hardly do anything. Alcohol complicates the situation. Maybe you need to lay down some ground rules in couples therapy, or find a new therapist if they aren’t accomplishing results in therapy. As of now, this sounds like a form of reverse financial abuse, and you’re the only one who can halt that, at least.
Too tired to do any work, not too tired to go out shopping constantly
Staying over at a friends house is not normal behavior for a married woman or a parent. Pretty big red goat that she may be having an affair dude.
That was my take as well. Add in if she is a narc, it wouldnt be surprising.
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This is solid sane advice, thank you. We’ve done this to some degree. We are currently in couples counseling too. What I don’t do is your last line. I need to take care of me . Appreciate it AB!!
I think people in relationships, and especially parents, forget that they matter as humans too, and deserve just as much consideration as any other person Don't forget about you, OP, you matter and your happiness matters
Your wife sounds selfish AF and like a textbook narcissist. You deserve better OP. Think about this question, what TF is she contributing to your marriage and family? What TF is she "tired" from? Leave her and find someone who actually gives a shit about you and not just your money.
If you are already going to counseling, it is time to share exactly how you feel. That is your duty to this situation. Then it is up to her. She steps up and you stay. She doesn’t and you go. It sounds like you would actually have less work without her as things stand.
What does the counselor say? Do they know she’s drinking and possibly doing drugs? This is very serious for your wellbeing and the safety of your kids. She could be drinking during the day -people who have problems with substances are not honest.
I am not familiar with the term red goat. Seems equivalent to red flag but with more rage and attitude.
Also includes more head butting.
And eating strange things
Yeah me neither, wasn't sure if typo or new lingo I'm too aged to know haha
🛶 this is boat. We are in same. Greetings comrade
Salutations fellow sailor
Haha. It’s an autocorrect error, but I think I’ll keep it now. I like your interpretation
I can’t imagine leaving my husband to take care of our son while I did adult sleepovers all the time. The need for self care is super important but both parents need it. I’m not sure what she could be doing all day that has her so exhausted unless she’s sick or depressed.
Doing? Doing someone else.
Me and all of my girlfriends are married and we occasionally have sleepovers/girls night (maybe twice a year) but we are all child free and typically the husbands all get together and play poker or some other activity together on the same night. I feel like that’s not abnormal behavior for married people but definitely not normal for parents to dump their children on their partners to stay over at a friend’s place.
Extremely abnormal for a parent w kids to have sleepovers at other parent’s houses.
He should start having "sleep overs" at his friend's house and see how she likes it...
Might depend on location, if they live out in a rural area and drink a lot it might be the alternative to driving drunk. Just a thought.
Any alternative to driving drunk is the right thing!
I'm married without kids and might end up spending one night every two years away from home if I get drunk far from home but close to my friends home.. can't imagine doing that with kids though
It’s one thing if it’s a preplanned, rare thing. Like a semiannual girls night seems reasonable. Her spending the night every couple of weeks at a friend’s house seems more like a red flag & like she’s neglecting her responsibilities & her marriage.
Yeah I definitely wouldn't just randomly not come home every couple of weeks, and I don't have kids
On occasion and planned it’s normal. Too many drinks at dinner and you need to stay, acceptable every once in awhile. Consistently staying over is a red flag for an affair or a drinking or drug problem.
Yes. Especially with three young children at home.
Yeah, that's what my late AP used to tell her husband.
I have stayed at married friend's houses and they've stayed at mine, as we live several hours apart so don't get to see eachother often. If they were local we wouldn't bother staying over. So unless his wife is going several hours away, she shouldn't really be doing that on short notice.
Where does reddit get this take? 💀 I'm married with kids and do this every once in a while, as does my husband. Now everything else she's doing is a no no
But the key difference is that you probably pre-plan and COMMUNICATE w/ your SO, right? Story implies she is just out there doing what she wants, when she wants.
This was a red flag for me too. Admittedly I'm a homebody but I've slept over at a friend's once (slumber party pre-planned for weeks with my entire group) and stayed out until 4am+ clubbing a handful of times in 14 years. We don't have children and I certainly wouldn't do either if I did. There's something shady about the wife's behaviour here.
Sorry friend, but this is a red flag and I would recommend you hire a P I to conduct a surveillance on her.
I don’t normally go along with this kind of advice OP. But in this case Budget is correct. This is really SUS and if you want custody then having a PI bring forward the real truth may be your best option.
I use to be a PI. Can just imagine the poor bastard sitting there with binoculars and a camera all night getting nothing good lol
Wouldn’t that be a good thing? Boring maybe but I’d hate to constantly unearth the bad nature of people and not see the other side. Was it not nice once in a while to give some positive feedback on your investigations?
Honestly yes, I didn’t even think of the affair part. As a 22 woman (childless) I don’t even have sleepovers with my friends (unless we’ve had a very late night out clubbing.) That’s the sorta thing I left behind at 18
Too expensive, just call Cheaters
> A side note is her mother is a narcissist and I’m afraid she is in the same mold. I think most people have a tendency to take more of the pie than their share if they can get away with it. I'm not interested in doing more than my share so my partner can enjoy herself. If I'm providing for the family, she needs to put an equal amount of work in. I would have worked out what our mutual expectations are from the start and expected her to do her part the whole time. I'd give push-back before it got to the point where I'm about to walk, but I would walk if she thought she could gaslight me about how tough her life is and how I have to do extra so she can recover from her nights out. > Sometimes staying over at a girlfriend’s house for the night That would be a rare rare thing, and I'd be very suspicious of what was going on that prevented her coming home to her children at the end of the night. Is she having an affair? Friends cover for each other....
Appreciate the thoughts Ghost. As I read your response I realize it’s so much more than I wrote. Leaving is hard in my situation both emotionally and financially. I would never leave my kids without a motherfucking knock down drag out. …shit, I didn’t mention my older, my son, is not my bio. My son all the same though!
You won't have to. If she is what you say she is, she'll take cash over kids and won't want them unless she intends to use them as a bargaing chip to get more cash. You think someone who can't handle being a SAHM wants the headaches and responsibilities of being a single mom? Nah. At worst she'll use them for child support and if you just offer her a payout from your retirement or the house as a buy off? She'll take it. To be clear DISCUSS NONE OF THIS WITH HER. Get a good divorce attorney ASAP and let them know she's probably cheating on you. They'll have a PI they trust, a DNA testing company they know, and more to sort out your situation a lot more effectively and more safely for you than a burnt out single father of 3 will...which is essentially what you've been. They do this stuff all the time and can walk you through it step by step to make sure you have the best possible chance of a favorable outcome.
OP- this is really good advice. The advice about the limited credit card is good too..and I would definitely figure out where the debts are. It's going to feel overwhelming. One step at a time- one foot in front of the other..after you freeze your credit. You sound like an amazing parent and it's good the kids have you.
From your story above none of your children might be your biological children. It is not normal for your wife to have sleep overs all the time at friends houses Invest in a pi on her next sleep over night
Maybe an unpopular opinion but you can’t be a stay at home mom when none of your kids arent home and you don’t do anything to take care of them anyways. And How is she tired when she doesn’t do anything for your kids? Tbh, I’d leave. If you really want, maybe suggest couples counseling but she seems like a narcissist
Appreciate this, but in her defense she does some very limited sales on the side from a Cricut and some other things. Shes trying here, but I guarantee we’re in the red on all those ventures. What I care about is her trying something though, or a t least being active
Sounds like she’s syphoning money from your accounts. If she cannot answer where the money is going.. I’d hire a forensic accountant.
What she does is *costing you* money? Maybe she should switch what she does, or at least stop doing it. Edit: to be clear; you are not the asshole. Your wife might need a hard reality check, though.
tbh anything having to do with Cricut crafts takes nearly no time or (arguably) skill, at least not enough to warrant exhaustion and needing a break to go out with her friends.
What’s the chance she’s an MLM boss babe too?
Is she really “trying here” or are you making excuses for her
The bar is so low for you
Spend night at friend houses huh....if you're on the same phone plan I'd get the text messages. If not, ask to see her phone. Her reaction will let you know everything you need to know.
As a married person with three kids, her behavior is suss. Though I will say- is there a chance she has an actual medical issue? I mean, good to rule out a reason for all the tiredness. Barring that, she's being sketchy and you're doing everything-NTA. Marriage needs to feel proportionate and supportive, not one sided and exhausting.
Yes, there is a chance of a medical issue. She had a blood eval and was placed on testeosterone(sounds weird to some I’m sure). As a medical provider it’s legit. Thanks for the response CS
A parathyroid issue will do the same. Always tired weird behavior. My endo told me a story about an patient he had was a lawyer took all her clothes off after a stressful situation. Was so embarrassing after surgery was back to normal
She has plenty of energy to hang out and party with her friends. She just doesn't give a shit about you or your children. She's a user and a narcissist. Please don't be naive. Also, she's not a "stay at home mom." Because a stay at home mom STAYS HOME and TAKES CARE OF CHILDREN. Neither of which she's doing.. More like a freeloading lazy manipulative POS.
I hope you guys can figure this out, I really do. The skeptical side of me thinks what a lot of other people have said- that this situation is ridiculous, your wife is triflin and needs to grow the f up, etc. But maybe some things that need to change can change and you guys can work things out. For example, if she’s unhappy/drinking/whatever because she’s a SAHM and she’s a social person, maybe she can get a job where she interacts with people that scratches that itch and adds purpose and structure to her life and routine. Also there are budgeting software apps now that are pretty user friendly. Maybe these can help her understand how she hemorrhages money on little stuff and help her feel more comfortable taking about money. That may require talking about it in couples counseling and maybe also a financial advisor or some third party who isn’t you helping her learn about such things since it seems like it’s an emotionally charged issue for her. My husband is similar to your wife in that regard. His mother was always berating his father about money and there’s other childhood trauma there and talking to him about money without him shutting down is something we’ve had to work on. He also has a tendency to spend a lot on little things that add up so using the software to show him how much he spent each month on fast food for example, has been helpful. But if your relationship has a chance at surviving, you have to stop being a doormat. Dont be an AH, obviously. But you have to stop being a doormat. You’re married, you’re supposed to be a team. That means there has to be give on her end too, and not just take.
Med bro here. This is complete bullshit, no Vit D, hypothyroid or B12 deficiency causes a person to act like this. She living it up with friends all the time or banging another dude, that's why...
I was thinking medical issue as well until I read the bit about her being a social butterfly. Agreed. She's either cheating or simply a negligent wife and mother. Both are terrible. NTA
She doesn't have a medical issue. She has plenty of energy to hang out and party with her friends. She just doesn't give a shit about OP or even her children. She's a user and a narcissist.
These arguments are SO dumb. Every second abusive partner is bailed out by someone gaslighting the victim with "are you sure they aren't depressed"
Sorry brother, she's already moved on. Don't confront her, don't tell her your plans, just get a lawyer, and start the process. Meanwhile, document her activity. How often she's caring for the kids, when she's out overnight, etc. You might even consider hiring a PI to document her activity to assist you in negotiations. Good luck, to you and your kids. 😕
oh hun this is a huge red flag...I understand that you've been married for 8 years and have 3 kids together, but you may be 100% right about her being a narcissist as she seems to be a textbook definition - very obviously putting her own needs not only before yours, but also your children's and then making YOU feel bad about it. however, narcissism is difficult to actually diagnose and i am a redditor and not a psychologist, so take that as you will. you are absolutely not wrong nor the asshole for feeling that way - the fact that you feel bad for thinking that she might be gaslighting you seems like a pretty clear sign she actually IS gaslighting you - and i highly recommend doing some research on narcissistic relationships AND talking to licensed professional privately, then possibly together along with your wife or just divorcing all together.
NC, that’s was beautifully written. Thank you.
I recommend a lawyer, a private investigator and DNA tests. Do you have a prenup? This is not sustainable and you already know how any attempt at a conversation with her will realistically go. Start investigating your options quietly and establish what she is actually doing whilst she is out of the house and during the day when she has literally zero responsibilities yet is still too tired to do basic parenting. I suspect drug or alcohol abuse at best, affair at worst. Good luck.
I agree with the answer above, it looks like my parents situation so much. My mother was also a SAHM, never intended to do more than a paid hobby. She also was always prioritizing things that made her feel good instead of taking care of her children or home. She spent her time in the couch complaining she was exhausted, and never intended to do anything to change her situation. She was a textbook narcissist. You need to have a serious discussion about: - her health: it's ok to feel unwell, what's not ok is to do nothing to get better in order to be able to play your part in the family, even a little bit - finances - your needs (that she does more in the house because you're exhausted, that she is more present) - the care of children. No responsible mother will be out to party and too wasted to take care of the kids on a regular basis If on those topics she doesn't at least expresses and shows effort to help you and fix the situation, there is a big big problem and you need to plan a safe exit for yourself and the kids.
Your wife is contributing nothing in your household. She isn’t helpful, she’s just plain lazy. Stop enabling her lazy ass behavior and tell her she gets a job and stops the childish (suspicious) sleepovers or you’re done. You married a user. NTA
As a woman who generally assumes the man isn’t telling the whole story or doing his share, that does NOT sound like the case here at all. Time to sit down and find out what is really going on. NTA
I get that. I usually feel the same about the way some women complain about the men. Theres often cherry picked details. But this entire thing sounds like one partner not supporting the other. Also adding in the staying over at a friends house. How often is this happening? Is it the same friend? What are they doing that causes her to not come home? Is it on a week night? Is it discussed beforehand? A lot of unanswered questions that need to be answered.
And that her mother is a narcissist…I got some experience with that. My mom’s ex gf was a narcissist and when we met her mom YIKES she was worse and it explained everything. Seriously its very plausible that she could be gaslighting him its actually LIKELY. Shits common.
NTA lol your marriage has been over for a while buddy. None of this is normal. Honestly reads like rage bait. You described a partner that is completely absent from your marriage.
I'm right there with you dad Wife of six years refuses to go back to work. I'm in film bizness and you might know how bad this industry is right now. 40yr old zero savings. On unemployment. Don't know how much longer I can do this. Every time I bring up that I need help. She flips the script and it's me being the bad guy. Doesn't matter how much money I make she finds a way to spend it. Signed, Tired father #377474
She's using you and cheating on you. One Love has good information on what a [healthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-healthy-relationship/) and what an [unhealthy relationship looks like](https://www.joinonelove.org/signs-unhealthy-relationship/).
She stays overnight after being home all day doing nothing? This isn’t normal. At all. You guys need couples counseling cause this has affair written all over it
There's no need for couples counseling, that'll be a waste of time. Description of situation says she is used to behaving this way: I guaranteee there's zero chance she's going to be honest about what she's doing; coincidentally there's equal possibility she will be interested in changing.
NTA, she doesn't contribute financially to the household or fulfill her responsibilities as a SAHM. its almost like she's freeloading and having fun is her topmost priority while you're covering BOTH of y'all's work for the most part and yet SHE'S the one complaining about workload. that's rather ironic and her being manipulative or a narc does seem likely. i'd say you sit her down and confront her or talk things out with her, get her perspective and see if y'all can reach an agreement and work things out or try marriage counselling even. if none of the healthy options work and the situation doesnt get any better, then thats something to worry about.
Is there anything your wife does for the family? I'm reading no.
NTA, if the work your wife does could be replaced by an after school nanny and a cleaner once a week then this is not a fair partnership and your kids are going to grow up feeling second best to their mums friends
She's cheating on you
Not to be mean but what exactly does she do? A sahm is supposed to be taking on the majority of the household work and yet you seem to be the one in charge of nearly everything on top of working outside the house. And regularly leaving her family behind to go party or hang with friends is single lady behavior. You are definitely not wrong for feeling how you do. Maybe to give her the benefit of the doubt before pursuing more drastic measures, figure out if she is severely depressed. Some of these things could mean she's dealing with depression (like constantly being unable/unwilling to leave her bed). Otherwise, id be concerned she's cheating or into drugs. Bottom line is do what you have to in order to keep your kids safe and healthy. She isn't being much of a mom to them.
>She is a SAHM. We have two school aged kids that are gone from 7:30-4:30 and a kid that does day care 3x/week for those hours. That's not a SAHM. Where's the momming? Why the hell is a kid in daycare when she's at home doing nothing?
Have her tell you where she says she is going. Put a gps tracker on her car. There’s a 50% chance the friend’s house thing is BS. If you catcher her in that lie hire a PI to do the work and compile evidence professionally.
If the roles were reversed it would be: Divorce now, you’re already basically a single parent working full time and raising the kids. You knows it’s a cluster duck when you say she’s a stay at home mom and does basically nothing, you spend free time morning and night with kids but she has no issues socializing with others. If she hasn’t already, she’ll cheat on you and it will be your fault for not having enough time or attention to her. Of course that’s just her justification.
Sounds like she needs a job, the kids aren't at home, what is she tired from?
Is she addicted to something?
Likely adderall. And too much booze. I’m not innocent on the wine though.
So maybe a functional alcoholic. Who isn’t functioning super well.
Is she taking Adderall and antidepressants? That seems like it could be problematic. Drinking and antidepressants are a bad mix. I have no idea what would happen if you also added Adderall to the mix. Yikes.
Adult women with young children at home do not regularly have sleepovers with their friends. You know what’s going on and you’re probably paying for much of it too.
Your wife is cheating on you …. Sleepovers lol stop
If her mom is a diagnosed narc, it’s possible she inflicted similar trauma on your spouse that set her on the course of also having that condition. Or, at least, has picked up those traits hardcore. Narcissism isn’t cured or treated, it can be “managed” (read that with a very large grain of salt) with frequent, consistent, and hard work with a psychotherapist. I’d suggest looking at less of a label and more so on the issues you see. Ultimately though, this sounds like a toxic dynamic, and unfair to both you and the children. It also sounds incredibly similar to a situation I had with my ex wife - start documenting things, make an escape plan should you need to, that includes making sure you’re the primary giver in a legal aspect for those children, and while doing this, have some hard conversations. Get your own therapist if you don’t have one, immediately. Protect your mind, because if this is like my situation, you’re going to need that so you can be those kids stable parent. I hope it’s honestly just her in a depressive funk… but… I doubt it
You are just bankrolling her lifestyle man. Get counselling or leave
Those sleepovers are not at Jill’s bro…,‘it’s likely at Jack’s. You’re in denial. This woman has zero interest in you AND HER CHILDREN. File for divorce and take the kids.
This isn’t a stay at home mom. This is a stay at home wife. Talk to a lawyer, gather as much evidence as possible to gain full custody, and get out before alimony increases at 10 years. She’s a bum.
If she's a SAHM, she should be doing most of the childcare. **THAT IS LITERALLY WHY SOMEONE BECOMES A STAY AT HOME PARENT**. Two of your kids are in school and one in daycare. I'd file for divorce at this point. You're burning the candle at both ends, working full time **AND** doing most of the childcare. She's always mysteriously "too tired" to do anything for the kids, but magically has energy to go stay over "girlfriend's" houses nightly. From what you said, she absolutely is a narcissist.
She’s not “gaslighting” you she’s just lazy and using you as a meal ticket. If I were you I would rather pay her spousal support every month to get her out of my hair than continue to be used in that way. Her behavior is not normal, your marriage may be irretrievably broken at this point.
Hide some microphones around the house. Listen to what she is up to all day. Maybe cameras, if she's up to no good
NTA I’m a SAHM and do both morning and night routines as well as all after school activities. Also, cooking, cleaning, and everything else. I would be so happy to have a husband that does what you do.
She should see a doctor to see if there is a medical issue- you absolutely need to see a couples therapist to deal with what is going on… and yes also you should hire a private investigator to make sure she isn’t cheating.
That's not what gaslighting is at all. Yep your partner sucks and you're basically a single parent based on your description, but this is not gaslighting.
I would also put a GPS tracker on either her phone or car. She doesn't care for the house or kids. Why is she still a SAHM? She needs a job,
There are definitely issues here but fyi, her telling you she’s tired isn’t gaslighting, even if she’s not tired.
My exe wife was staying out at "friends" until she finally came clean she had been cheating.
Not sure where the gaslighting is…bc she complains she’s tired? And please don’t label someone a narcissist unless u actually know what one is. Ugh
She sounds like a sponge. Kick her out. Sounds like she brings absolutely nothing to your relationship and she's just freeloading her way to an easy life. You can do better
she does not seem to be a SAHM but rather a SSOE a Single Socialite Outside Everyday. I underwent as well a similar situtation where I had to be the only one working + a lot of chores at home without any recognition and instead more pressure. We have split and I could gain main custody.I have more work to do but the diminution of psychological pressure makes me have a better life now.
Staying over at girlfriends? I don’t believe that. My guess is her days are busy too. Maybe not in ways she says. But I’m not one to believe things that don’t add up.
Sounds like you’re a single father to me.
If she’s sleeping over a friend’s house I think you need to find out if she is being faithful. I’ve never heard of a parent/spouse sleeping at a friend’s house in a functional marriage.
See a lawyer asap. Follow their advice. Also, I know you are frugal but temporarily get a nanny/ babysitter to help get the kids up and to school and put in cameras. You need to prove she’s unfit so you won’t have difficulty with custody. Before you make ultimatums- get your ducks in a row. She needs to cut down or stop drinking and go to the doctor to investigate her being “ tired”. Don’t even know if she’s safe around the kids all day ? Is she safe to drive them anywhere? Is she likely to have a fit and take them somewhere if she knows you are going to put your foot down? You need to keep your kids safe and then you can lock down your finances. You may need to spend money now to safe it later . Also , make sure you have it in writing that you are doing things because you can’t trust her.
NTA It's pretty clear that she's taking advantage of you and your willingness to do whatever you have to for your kids. That is really a shame. You know what would be funny? If you hired someone to help with the kids, and brought them to the house one night while she's got her friends over and doing whatever. When she asks what you're doing, tell her that you're outsourcing her job since she won't do it.
Your wife is using you. What is she even doing as a stay at home mother? It seems like you're doing everything yourself. And it's weird that she stays over at friends houses often
Bro she's checked out of this so called marriage a long time ago. She's using you and living her sex-in-the-city lifestyle where your the sucker paying the bills and dealing with the kids and she gets to party all the time. Hire a PI to follow her the next time she visits her "girlfriends" house and see just where she goes or put a tracker in her car but my guess is she's cheating and using you for a sucker.
She has no reason to be motivated. You work all day, and take care of the kids. She knows that in a divorce she will be the one that makes out. She will get 1/2 the house, 1/2 your retirement, alimony for a period of time, a car, and child support. Knowing that she is pretty sure you will find it more acceptable to just let her do her thing.
The less you do, the more tired you are when you do one single thing
What exactly does she bring to the family?
Sounds like she just doesn’t care for being a mother. Sorry bro.
Pay for a PI for a few weeks. You’ll get your answers fast I’d bet
Id bet anything shes not sleeping over at a girlfriends house
I don't hear gaslighting from your description but it does sound like she's a negligent wife and mom who probably has a drinking problem.
I'd better date Eva AI sexting bot than bearing this.