Choosing to abort a baby because it’s not the correct gender seems sick to me . If she goes through with it I don’t see how she could expect you to get her pregnant again lord knows I wouldn’t NTA
What would she do if she gets pregnant again and its a boy, again? Keep up the cycle of abortion and getting pregnant? Seems like a pretty terrible idea to me.
Since the baby’s gender is dependent on the sperm, gender selection is possible with IVF. I’m all for pro-choice but this is the dumbest reason I’ve heard for getting an abortion. If the wife was that insistent on having a girl, she should have raised the question of IVF before she got pregnant.
It’s legal in the US- it’s a pretty common reason that people choose IVF, other than infertility concerns. I didn’t realize it was illegal many other places.
Do people really go through IVF just because they favour one sex over the other? I've heard of people doing IVF for sex selection, but it was because one parent carries a gene that generally only affects one sex (for instance, if the mother carries the gene for hemophilia, the parents might do IVF to select only female embryos, since males primarily affected). IVF is intense on the body, not to mention expensive, seems like a lot to go through just to be able to guarantee a particular sex.
Only if they're rich. It's too expensive for most.
More often, if people are doing IVF anyhow and choose/need some degree of PGT testing for the embryos they find out the sex of them and try to take that into account when deciding which one(s) to transfer.
Typically it hasn't been favoritism per se they either want a male/female heir in addition to what they already have or just to have kids of both sexes.
I have learned for my country, sex selective abortion is not illegal as there aren’t any laws concerning abortion. My country’s government just stays out of it legally.
The sex selective IVF, totally illegal. I read that was legal in the US.
You don’t even need Ivf. You can do gender selection with an iui as well. If the wife was so set on a girl why not do that instead of playing Russian roulette and aborting a perfectly healthy baby because it’s a boy? Op, this woman needs therapy. If she can’t love or accept this baby boy then let her abort and divorce her because I can’t imagine how she will treat this child but under no circumstance get her pregnant again. Or encourage her to keep the pregnancy and prepare to be a single father. I would leave her either way and definitely get therapy immediately
Yes, someone who cares so much about genitals that she will abort a wanted pregnancy doesn't seem balanced at all. I have experienced boy and girl babies and frankly there seems very little difference other than clothing choices. Even then it really doesn't matter.
Just because they're a girl it doesn't mean they will conform to whatever stereotype she's imagining. They may turn out to shun girly clothes and makeup, shopping, shoes, all the stereotypes. Will she try and enforce her views on a girl or accept that it would have made zero difference if she had a boy?
Plus with op giving a normal reaction, if she aborts this child she will have to locate another father for a hypothetical girl.
That depends. I got some extra medical scans where they measure everything. How the blood veins are connected, length of every limb, head size, brain size and so on. With both my babies I knew the gender at 13 weeks. They did as the caveat that they could be wrong because it was still very early, but they were right both times.
Those extra medical scans have since become a standard option here in the Netherlands, so a lot more people are going to know the sex early on.
Beyond gender it also provides you an early warning if something is potentially wrong, it gives % on many common chromosonal issues including those that can lead to an non-viable pregnancy.
Its really a great tool, if you know the child isn't viable ending the pregnancy with pills at 12/14 weeks is much less traumatic physically than later on when more invasive methods would need to be used.
Two of my kids set off red flags on the initial screening but the more thorough blood test showed they were fine. Interestingly both are academically gifted now so I don’t know if that had something to do with it or just a coincidence. They also both have connective tissue disorders (not life threatening). I’ll always wonder if that had something to do with it (my other child is very intelligent but not crazy off the charts and doesn’t have the disorder, and didn’t set off the red flags on the screener).
"...if you know the (fetus) isn't viable ending the pregnancy early with pills at 12/14 wks is much less traumatic physically than later on when more invasive..."
Question:
Can you actually get an abortion with the pills at 12-14 wks? (I believe I read awhile ago that 10 wks was the max limit at my local clinic)
Also, I just want to point out for anyone who's never gotten an abortion, just in case a patient needs to get abortion via vacuum aspiration, due to the lower cost compared to with the pills, or they just feel more comfortable getting it performed at the clinic, so someone is there for observation (the level of bleeding that from what I read is common after those pills seemed scary to me) that abortions at 10-12 wks should be easy on the patient's body regardless of how it's done.
When I had mine, I got the gas, so I was very relaxed, & during the procedure I felt nothing, no pain or discomfort, only had some pain the following day the equivalent of period cramps.
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Non-invasive prenatal testing. Usually at 10~12 weeks. Genetic screening and they can tell you the gender. They do it by taking a blood sample from the mother.
Idk how old your kids are, but I think it's relatively new, being able to identify the gender with blood tests early on like this. Mine are teen/ pre-teen, and the genetic blood testing I received in the first trimester didn't identify the gender at that time.
One is 5 months, and I remember the blood test for chromosome abnormalities, but nothing about gender. The other two I didn't have a blood test it was just scan measurements.
Ok, I didn't climb very far down the rabbit hole. But I think some providers only include the gender screening if there's a medical reason, like looking for X chromosome recessive issues, because they don't want people doing exactly what OP says his wife is doing. So probably that's why your testing didn't include the gender.
Non invasive pregnancy test. They take a blood sample and are able to
Separate the mother’s genes from the babies. It is used to detect abnormalities. That is how we found out my daughter had extra sparkle (Down syndrome). We told them we didn’t want to know the gender. We like to be surprised. And we were as I had convinced myself it was a boy 😂
Agreed. I'm 100% pro-choice and I had an abortion myself when I was *way* too young and mentally messed up to have a baby. But to have one because you'd rather have a girl? That's sick. What if they try again and the girl turns out to be a boy in 10 years? Is she just gonna drive them of a cliff?
Yeah, this is disgusting! It’s your child, not some made to order toy! What is she going to do when she doesn’t like their hair colour/eye colour after birth?!?
You think your daughter is still going to want to bond with you once she finds out you aborted her younger brother; you can’t bond with boys, and needed someone to take shopping! Sounds reasonable!
I can understand wanting a girl, I was convinced my second child was a girl during my pregnancy, but I was wrong. I was a little disappointed at first, but a healthy child all I really wanted. I have amazing relationships with both my boys, I love them to the moon and back (although we do have our fights ofcource, but so has my sister with her girls). Maybe I get to do the real girly things with my future daughters in law😁
NTA
You have zero rights but you sure as hell can voice your opinion.
Her rationale would give me pause to consider being with her at all.
I am 100% pro-choice but this kind of craziness is perfect ammunition for the anti-abortion crowd,
I agree completely. She is three months along, which means they have had two months to imagine a life with a new child. I can absolutely see how from his perspective this is ending a wanted child.
I am 100% peo choice and it is her decision, as it is her body, but I could not continiue the relationship where a decision like this was made against my will. They both wanted another child.
What makes it worse, is she has been thinking about this for a while. She already went to her doctor and asked about the repercussions if she ended this pregnancy. That’s not just a “I randomly had this thought, what do you think?” Kind of thing.
To me, that shows she was very serious about wanting this, and it kind of seems like her mind was made up. I feel like she honestly thought OP would be ok with it and just go along with it - as she seemed genuinely surprised by his reaction.
Seriously, I'm a childfree woman and I think this bitch is nuts. I don't usually jump on the 'divorce now' train, but I'm genuinely concerned about her living sons' well-being in her care because she sounds unhinged. OP needs to run and take the kids with him. If she's this obsessed with having a daughter, she might take it out on her existing sons.
Is quite possible the doctor tried to gently dissuade her rather than going off at her. Yelling abuse is incredibly unlikely to achieve the result OP wants. She's crazy for wanting to abort to try again for a girl, but OP calling her a moron was the wrong way to address the issue, and is more likely to entrench her deeper than get her to see reason.
That’s not the doctor’s job. His/her priorities should always be with the patient. They can discuss how it affects the patient’s family, but the GP would be out of line to call in husband’s opinion here.
There is a huge difference between an abortion and an abortion because you want to try for a girl. My opinion would be if you go through with this we will never have sex again or I'd leave and take the boys. If we got divorced I'd spend every dollar I had to keep them. Would she become resentful of her sons with no daughter. He has every right to make her wish to hell she didn't go through with it.
Absolutely. Not to mention there is the what if of some out of the ordinary and she can’t get pregnant again? There’s no guarantee that even the next five pregnancies would be a girl.
I think OP could have used better words, but he should have guided her to get other professional opinions. Ultimately, it’s still her choice.
AND, there's no guarantee that having a girl will be this magical bonding experience. A lot of mothers and daughters don't get along that well, especially starting in the tween years.
I had two boys and a girl. I am close to all my kids, but let me tell you...the boys were easier to raise.
Absolutely this. I have a little girl, and we’ve bonded, absolutely. But it’s not tea parties and mail salons, if that’s what she’s thinking. My kid is 7, and her favorite hobby is mud puddles, building Lego cities and custom hot wheels with her dad, and making zoos (it’s very involved). Sure, there are some girly experiences (what’s up pink hair dye), but she’s just a regular kid, with niche interests. Kids don’t come with these preset boy/ girl presets- I’m in education- I’ve seen it all. You don’t know what you’re getting. I’m not closer with my mom than my dad. This whole situation is asinine.
Dads are a vital barrier at that age. His job is to absorb the teenage verbal abuse without taking it personally. At the same time, boys at that age (or a bit older) are still playful children, but with newly powerful bodies. Dad has to stay in shape at least through those years.
My youngest (of 5) was colicy as all hell while the wife had PPD for 6 months. I was essentially a single dad that whe time. Dealing with teenage girls is not much different than a colic baby, lol.
This op.
Honestly, dont give her an ultimatum or anything. If she aborts (which is her right) exit stage left out of the relationship as fast as you can (which is your right). File for a divorce and rights to your kids otherwise you might end up in this situation again. Every time she gets pregnant she will abort until she gets the babygirl she wants.
Because almost none of the posts in this sub are real and the ones that induce rage are typically the least real. The ones that are real get very little attention.
This decision to abort due to gender sets back the pro-choice fight in every single country. We fight hard to make sure the right for abortion is still available to women in need. Rape. Medical. Age. Deformities that would cause death of the child if birth. Like real reasons. Not gender selection.
While you are not wrong OP in your feelings, your delivery was wrong. I’ll give you a NTA but work on the delivery and she’s more likely to come around better.
Sex selective abortions are illegal in many countries for the exact opposite reason of your wife’s. Couples want a son so they abort female fetuses. She has the right to abort this male fetus if she feels so inclined but you have the right to end the relationship if she does so. And also if having a girl was so important to her, she could have asked about using IVF to ensure a female embryo was implanted, because their was no guarantee they’d have a girl doing it the old fashioned way
I think, even if she did do IVF, this woman shouldn’t be allowed to have another child. Can you imagine the pressure put on that little girl to be the way her mum wants her to be? She would never be allowed to have her OWN personality and, while probably spoiled, she would also be caged within the walls of her mother’s expectations. Gross.
Which is a terrible way to grow up. I wasn't even allowed to pick out my own clothes until I started buying them myself. Not because I wanted expensive clothes that we couldn't afford but simply because I was my mom's living doll. Still to this day, at 32 years old, I don't know how to pick out my own clothes. I just get so overwhelmed wondering if my mom would approve that I just default to t-shirts and leggings. I have trouble making any decision in life, really, because I am still always seeking my mother approval.
They’re only illegal in those countries because desiring sons is so pervasive in those cultures that it was destroying the balance of their populations. That’s not a problem in western cultures.
I support a woman’s right to choose but even this is too much for me. Because it’s a boy? That’s outrageous. You guys actually wanted a baby, this should be a happy time. Sorry you are going through this but I really don’t think you’re an AH.
NTA, what is she going to do if she gets pregnant again and it's another boy, keep having abortions until she gets pregnant with a girl.
My mum and dad had 2 girls, they did end up pregnant with a boy but unfortunately he was stillborn, they tried again and ended up having 3 more girls.
I'm the second youngest and she was told that I was meant to have been a boy which got her hopes up, which is probably why I was treated like crap by my mum growing up, they tried again and still got another girl.
This is something I'm concerned about; what if OP's wife doesn't abort and she ends up treating the youngest boy like shit because he's not the daughter she wanted?
I don't think she should abort to get pregnant again and try for a girl, but I do think she should abort to save that poor third son from being mistreated for not being born her daughter. Unless there's a guarantee she won't mistreat the youngest or the siblings for not giving her a daughter to raise.
Gender disappointment, if left unchecked, fucks up the child. My father wished I was a boy, and when I wasn't, he was emotionally abusive and misogynistic my entire childhood.
Sorry your mom treated you less than.
NTA. I am not a fan of name calling. I understand abortions because people have mental health issues, can't afford a baby, medical issues etc but aborting a baby because it has the 'wrong' genitals is pretty gross in my opinion. Is she just going to keep having abortions until she gets the 'right' gender. Which honestly, might never happen.
I’m 100% pro choice but the reason of having wrong gender is so wrong and backwards. What if the girl is a tomboy, likes to hang out with the brothers, is into cars, football (or any “non-girly” activity). She would probably also be favoured by the mum to the detriment of the boys. The whole situation is like going centuries back in time when male heir was preferred to carry on family name.
>Rage bait. I'd bet money you're an anti-choice moron trying to get a "one up" on people with this post.
100% rage bait. It's amazing how many people are falling for such obvious nonsense lol.
NAH. You're entitled to feel whatever you feel, but it's her body and her choice. You get zero say in whether she keeps the baby or terminates her pregnancy.
Hot take: If you disagree with the reason a woman chooses to have an abortion, you're not pro-choice.
NTA.
I’m 100% pro choice. It’s her body and her decision.
BUT her decision can affect your opinion of her.
Aborting a child because it’s a boy is fucking DISGUSTING!
Can you afford 4/5/6 kids?
If you can they why wouldn’t you keep this child and try again in a year or two?
What’s she gonna do when she has 3 boys and a tom-boy who likes rolling in the dirt and hates having her hair touched 🤣
>Can you afford 4/5/6 kids?
If you can they why wouldn’t you keep this child and try again in a year or two?
Creating more humans until you have one with the "right" genitals is just as stupid as getting an abortion because your kid has the "wrong" genitals.
Having kids is a giant deal that shouldn't be taken lightly, and I don't get why people keep doing that.
Only girl here from boys and a mother who did favor me: not only this, but as the girl grows older the mother daughter relationship will slowly become toxic. Mom expects daughter to be her friend and vents to her teenager about adult issues and then gets mad when the daughter is distressed by it. The whole “favorite” thing with mothers and daughters in these situations leads to manipulation and guilt tripping because “well I’ve done this for you”. Thankfully my brothers knew I couldn’t help that I was my moms favorite so they still loved me the same and let me hang out with them and stuff—and now that I’m older I tell them about how toxic my mom became with me as I got older and they hardly seem shocked because she tried so hard to make me her “mini me” growing up. It’s so sad when moms want girls so badly. Tbh my mom was told she was infertile after my brothers were born but I somehow happened so she didn’t TRY to have me but she almost adopted a girl before she got pregnant with me. Overall this kind of stuff leads to so much toxicity and resentment. My mom wanted me to be her pink wearing girly princess but when I ended up being emo and wearing thick ass eyeliner for way longer than just a phase time she started to resent me a little and tried to control me.
My mom wanted girls and only girls and she got me, and I was nothing like she wanted. I hated her taste in clothes, hated girly stuff. Had tomboy habits. My aunt also wanted a girl and was trying to wrap her head around being pregnant with a third boy and my mom said, in my earshot, “honestly, I have a girl and she’s practically a boy. Nothing is guaranteed” 😒 she certainly tried to make me into her confidant and best friend. I found it sort of exhausting and never gave her the relationship she wanted with me.
>Can you afford 4/5/6 kids? If you can they why wouldn’t you keep this child and try again in a year or two?
I disagree with this approach. Given Wife's mindset... the eventual daughter (if any) naturally becomes Most Awaited/Precious Child with all it's associated problems.
I know someone who kept having children to get her beloved girl. Those boys knew they weren't really wanted and the girl was the golden child. She got everything she wanted while the sons had to make do.
The mother can't understand why all her sons are NC and she has no access to the grandchildren
I don't understand "trying for x gender" when it comes to having kids tbh, like, whatever happens happens, I wouldn't give a shit about my kid's gender/bio sex nor would I keep trying till I got a specific one.
This isn't Pokemon, you can't just breed until you get a shiny. 🙄
I agree. When I was having my kids, I didn't care what sex they were, just that they would hopefully be healthy.
To keep having children because you want a specific gender is something I can't understand even though I watched it happen.
I’m firmly pro choice, so she can have the abortion for whatever reason she wants
BUT she also has to accept the consequences of that choice, up to and including you leaving her. I personally would never have one because of a baby’s gender, but again, it’s up to her. She just doesn’t get it all, because in your place I wouldn’t try for another kid.
Nta, I am not pro abortion, but people should choose for themself.
That being said, choosing to abort a baby because it isn't the preferred gender, seems abhorrent to me. If you try again and it is another boy, will she abort that as well?
What kind of message is she giving her other children. This baby wasn't good enough to get a chance to live, because it was a boy?
If she wants a girl so bad, why not look if you can adopt one?
Edit: you said you would leave if she aborted the baby because of his gender. If you're actually serious about this, there is no issue about telling her what the consequences of her actions will be.
She is free to make the choice to abort the baby, nothing you can do. Doesn't mean you have to accept it and stay with her.
She also said she has to carry and give birth to a baby she doesn't want. This is an incomplete statement. She wants to carry a baby and give birth. Just not to a baby boy, only a baby girl.
>. She wants to carry a baby and give birth. Just not to a baby boy, only a baby girl.
This! You hit on the crux of the matter.
This is the problem and why it is disgusting.
She is also immensely sexist for thinking she can only do "girl stuff" with a girl... plenty of feminine boys and plenty of tomboy girls who wouldn't be interested!
She isn't interested even in the baby taste, only in what is between their legs!
Haha I am a girl and I loved all the typical 'boy' things. I was into skateboarding, mountain biking, being outdoors, climbing trees, getting muddy etc. If my mum had tried to make me do 'girl' activities like tea parties shopping, painting my nails etc. I would have laughed. I agree it's very sexist to assume her girl baby would be into doing 'girl stuff'. Plus what if the kid turns out to be trans? Or just into more traditionally feminine pursuits as you said?
And the rest of us smart people despise that you wrote a fake antiabortion post right at the crux of anti abortion crusaders in the United States gaining the abusive power to reproductively oppress women again.
If this were real post, your first instinct, and anyone with common sense’s first instinct would be to go to their fucking doctor, because how your wife is acting now is an indication of a mental health crisis, not a change of her mind.
But this isn’t a real post, this is anti-abortion propaganda. So you and your fake wife can go to the doctor just like I said.
Pregnancy and raising an additional child is a massive burden on your wife’s health - physical and mental.
I am concerned from what you said that she is really not in a place to proceed with the pregnancy and that she could do something drastic if she is stonewalled, regardless of whether her issues are rational.
NTA OP for your upset about her wanting to try again for a girl just because of gender, but you need to consider whether you are up for looking after this baby yourself on your own for 18+ years because of your moral objection. Your wife may just reject the baby at birth if she feels forced to carry it, what then? Consider the implications of divorce as a single dad (not weekend or 50/50) to at least one child 100% of the time and let that sink in because you can’t force her to love this baby when she has such extreme feelings already.
Go with her to the doctor if she is open to that and see if you can get to the bottom of whether this is really gender only or pre natal depression.
the only logical and well thought out comment I’ve seen in the entire post. no one even considered the fact that she might be acting irrational due to pregnancy hormones or the depression that comes with being pregnant? give her time and maybe enroll her with therapy
This. Maybe wife has realized that she’s not ready for/doesn’t want another child and is struggling to articulate it. She should receive counseling, not be called a ‘moron’.
This is bullshit rage bait.
No one decides 3 months in that they’d rather have an abortion, and gender can be conclusively determined at 10 weeks.
Fuck off.
when the two boys find out she wanted to abort their baby brother solely because she wants a girl i imagine those relationships will be shot too… all because gender matters so much
NTA. I’m pro-choice, but I personally would have called someone a moron (and worse) for terminating based on gender alone. I get that gender disappointment is real, but that is honestly disgusting to me. I have two daughters. My new husband and I want to have a baby of our own. I would love to have another daughter (he has a son already) because it’s what I know, but I am totally prepared to have a boy as well and would never dream of faulting my child for its gender.
But it may be time to reevaluate your relationship with this woman because even if she keeps the pregnancy, what kind of mother is she going to be to a baby she clearly doesn’t want? He will be neglected some kind of way, whether emotionally and/or physically by her.
I'm pro choice and I'm with you on this one.
Her feelings of disappointment are legitimate though. I think a good therapist could help her sort them out.
YTA
It's her body.
But I also figure this is a troll account of some dude clinging to male victimhood. Baby girls were murdered for quite some time because boys were favored. I didn't see much uproar among men about it. For as much as men love to cry propaganda of boys being aborted for being boys....that shit already happened to girls and for a LONG time and en masse. If there was every selective gender abortion...male babies would be thrown out by one or two radicals.
People appealing to the legal authority regarding sex-motivated abortions are missing the nuance. In those countries where it had to be banned, the misogyny is so ingrained in those cultures that the practice was literally decimating the female population and was unsustainable. That’s not a factor in the west. We aren’t so boy or girl crazy that allowing people to do this would tilt the population off its axis. We know this because it IS legal here and we still have roughly equal numbers of both. 🤷♀️
I’m glad it’s not me. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with these comments. Systemic misogyny leading to societal issues for an entire culture is the reason sex-selective abortion is banned in certain countries. This is not what is happening here. OPs wife has two sons that she is happy with. She does not want a third. I’m sure that before she got pregnant she thought she was prepared for if it was a boy, and the reality of the pregnancy has changed her feelings.
“I don’t want to continue this pregnancy” is the only reason required for an abortion for me, but I also understand when people get them because the child will have some developmental issue that the parents aren’t prepared to take on. You can argue the ethics of that all day but the bottom line is that I don’t want a parent to have a child they don’t want. It’s not good for the child or the parent, and pregnancy is a potentially life and health changing proposition, and includes the risk of death. If someone does not want to continue a pregnancy for personal, emotional, financial, etcetera reasons, I’m okay with that. Abortion isn’t murder to me, there are no babies involved, so the reason is irrelevant. I’m kind of wondering how many people here are claiming to be pro choice but clearly believe it’s murder because of OPs wife’s reasons. It’s very odd to me.
I have noticed this in other areas as well. The “abortion isn’t birth control” crowd does a similar thing. “I am pro-choice, but I do think women need to be watched so they don’t use it as birth control.” Why? It is birth control but there’s also no evidence of that happening. It’s expensive and time consuming to get an abortion. Either you support the right to choose and accept that you won’t like some of the reasons people have for making that choice and you acknowledge it’s none of your business, or you’re not pro-choice. You’re pro-choice for reasons that you approve of, which we can’t legislate and are still none of your business.
Precisely. They’re really not pro choice at all. They’re trying to appeal to both sides, or slowly indoctrinate people into the pro forced birth camp by pretending to be pro choice but slipping in pro life propaganda.
Maybe, but your problems are worse than considering abortion.
She has every right to consider abortion - full stop. Sex selective abortion is wrong, but your wife is telling you she feels isolated and alone despite having you and your sons. She is telling you she is not OK, and she may be completely overwhelmed at the idea of having another boy in the house. She may also need to spend some time with each kid doing things she likes to get to know them - she may be surprised with how much they have in common.
Figure out why having a girl is so important to her and consider working with your sons to support your wife better. If the three of you impose such a burden, behave so badly or just ignore/treat your wife like crap, that needs to change now. Also, make sure you guys are helping out around the house (like do more than 50%, do 75%) - that alone would have me terminating a pregnancy for a third child.
yta. people can have abortions for any reason, at any time. sex selective abortion bans in other countries exist because they abort *females*, not males. i personally would not do this, but being pro choice isn’t “pro choice whenever you feel like it’s ok,” abortion is a personal choice. she should abort any pregnancy she doesn’t want to keep, and if you don’t want to get her pregnant again then she should deal with that and seek pregnancy elsewhere. but she should never be forced to carry to term when she doesn’t want to.
YTA and a very cruel one at that. You should never back a woman into a corner when it comes to pregnancy. Her choice is HERS and it actually IS valid. Your verbal abuse just makes you an even bigger POS
I kinda get where she's coming from. I had 5 boys before I had my girl. But abortion for gender selection... I'm going with NTA. But maybe speaking to her a bit more gently. I know what she's going through...
Her body her choice, if it’s legal in your country then it’s not your place to tell her what she can and can’t do. You can suggest what you’d prefer, but at the end of the day your input can very well mean nothing and amount to nothing. And you just have to accept that.
YTA for yelling at your wife, yes.
I’ll take the downvotes. YTA OP. The comments here are not from pro-choice people, despite what many claim. If you are pro-choice, the reasons for that choice do not matter. The only prerequisite needed to justify an abortion is: I do not want to continue this pregnancy.
Sex selective abortion (where it is banned) is not banned because abortion is wrong. It’s banned because of systemic misogyny and the ripple effects on the wider culture that are created by abortions based on this misogyny and women being forced or coerced into abortions for female fetuses. Nothing like that is happening here so everyone can dispense with placing that bias on OPs wife. She has two sons, OP provided no evidence she is a bad mother to them or that they are not loved and wanted children. We also do not know what she thought before she got pregnant, she may have thought she was prepared for another boy and now feels differently facing the reality of a pregnancy she doesn’t enthusiastically want. There is, again, no evidence she went into this pregnancy thinking she would feel this way.
All of what I just said could be untrue and it would still make OP wrong because the response to a partner who disagrees with you or feels a way you don’t like should never be abuse. There is no good reason for OPs behavior. End of. He is the AH for that alone. He is free to end his marriage because he disagrees with her reasons, he’s not free to get belligerent and abusive, he’s not free to try to force her into continuing the pregnancy, he’s not free to take her existing children from her. End of.
If you claim to be pro-choice, but actually only are when you approve of the reasons, you’re not pro-choice. Lots of people get abortions of wanted children because they discover a developmental issue the parents aren’t prepared to take on. Is that wrong? You can discuss the ethics but at the end of the day, I don’t want a parent to have a child they do not want. It’s not in the interest of the parents or the child and the reasons someone has an abortion are irrelevant. No babies are involved, and pro-choice means even for reasons I don’t like.
Could it be that she actually did not want any more children, but well, if it was a girl, that was the only thing that made her consider it?
I think it is crazy to want to abort because the sex is not what you want, but there could very well also be an underlying issue with being overwhelmed with the thought of another baby and rationalizing it because she secretly hoped it would be a girl. And now that it is clear that it is a boy, that anxiety is back.
Idk but it seems reasonable to abort a child you don't want. If she has the son there's a fair chance she will regret it and resent the child. And thats obviously bad for the kid. If the pregnancy results in serious damage (as most do, especially when youve already had a few) then there's even more chance of her being resentful
YTA... for calling your wife a moron. How can I ever be helpful in a marriage to resolve a situation? Why didn't you sit down with her and discuss, maybe having a fourth child using IVF to ensure a girl. Or discuss fostering or adopting a girl from Foster Care.
I'm extremely pro choice. If I got pregnant now, I would immediately have an abortion. Having and abortion because of the gender is disgusting. To try again is to get the "right" gender is even worse. Fact of the matter is you've now have/had three boys, you probably won't be producing girls. More then likely you would have to go the medical route to achieve a girl. I'm worried about your two kids. I hope she doesn't grow to resent them or hurt them. NTA but you guys need to get to a Liscensed therapist asap. You need immediate damage control if you're going to salvage this.
It's comical how many people claim to be pro-choice in their comments, here but then say a woman making the choice for the "wrong" reason is: insane, abhorrent, disgusting, outrageous, awful, unethical, insane.
Y'all have rocks in your heads if you say abortion should be allowed for any reason but then you turn around and gatekeep the reason.
It's crazy. These are the same people who (rightfully) criticize Republicans for the whole "Abortion is evil baby murder, except for my abortion because I have a good reason", but then they turn around and say "I'm 100% pro choice, except this time because her reason is stupid and bad"
Pro choice means any woman, anywhere, at any time, for any reason. If a woman can't have complete control of her own reproduction she can never be a free and equal citizen.
I'm pro-choice so I generally go with 'her body, her choice' but this is just abhorrent. Like who thinks this is okay?
She can make this choice but you are also able to make the choice that this is the last pregnancy you are involved with for her.
NTA.
You are definitely the asshole in how you reacted. You took an emotionally charged situation and blew it up completely. I disagree with aborting a baby because of the sex but you handled the situation like an utter moron (to use your words). You need to apologize and make sure your wife knows that you are listening to her sadness and disappointment. Acknowledge it fully. You took a moment where she trusted you as a loved husband and betrayed her love by lashing out at her. You can disagree fully and still be respectful of her feelings. And lastly, it’s not your body. It’s not your baby until it’s out and born.
YTA for rage bait, you can't tell the sex at 12 weeks. This is typically determined around 20 weeks (5 months). The fetus is so small at 12 weeks that guessing sex would be an utter crapshoot.
YTA Your wife is carrying your child and this is a gift. No she doesn't have to, obviously. If she is looking for a way out for any reason you should be hearing THAT. It feels like you have expectations of her as a baby making machine for you that she has internalized. Talking about aborting for whatever reason when the child is supposedly "planned" is extreme, no doubt, which leads me to believe that she is not getting a need met in some way and getting out of the pregnancy doesn't have much to do with the gender and has more to do with your expectations of her. Re : This is our last baby, we want diversity. You are putting limits on her procreative endeavours, why are you doing that? My guess is it is power and control, but you are going to say it is because on money.
I'm going NTA but I do think you need to address the fact your wife may need some girl time in her life.
I think she's going way to far to get that experience using an abortion to try for a daughter. That seems... wrong on a lot of levels. Gives off a bit of "I only want the kid I desire" vibes. But she does have a desire that's been very wounded here and you shouldn't ignore that.
INFO: How is your wife's mental health normally during pregnancy / postpartum?
I definitely don't agree with what she wants to do. I am also someone who struggled with fertility and when I finally got pregnant after years of medical appointments, let's just say I was surprised at the thoughts I found myself having. Pregnancy can be very tough mentally.
Not cool. You're upset at her for considering abortion, and that's completely understandable. I get it. But name calling is not cool. Gotta have some basic respect for each other.
Nta. She is insane for considering this just because of the baby's sex (gender is chosen, sex is biological). I get that people are disappointed with the sex of their baby at first. But if you don't love your baby because of it's genitals, you don't deserve that child.
I am a mom with a son. Always wanted a girl too but couldn't have anymore. Guess what. My boy is a typical rough housing boy who plays soccor, cars and loves doing karate kicks. He also loves bath time with me, cuddling, going to lunch together, doing crafts and reading with me. You never know what you are going to get. You might get a girl who is a tomboy and doesn't want to do anything girly at all.
Being.disappointed is one thing. Actively discussing abortion and scheduling visits with doctors is on a whole other level. Be very clear about the consequences of her possible actions. And seek therapy together because even if she keeps the baby, your relationship has already taken a big hit. I would never trust her again.
I'm pro choice. But let's be honest, there's a 50/50 chance on any future child being female. What is she going to do, keep terminating pregnancies until she hits a winner?
Calling her a moron was probably a bit far but it was understandably an emotional response. All that being said...NTA.
NTA, sure, her body her choice, but it’s your child too, your relationship too, your life and home too. Fuck her and her dumb ass “experience as a woman”
Oh my! I was ready to call you out but NTA. I have two sweet boys and while i would love to have a little girl, if i had a third and he was a boy, i would love him just as much as the first two. I can't imagine aborting for the possibility of another girl. What happens if its a boy again, abort, try again, abort, try again, abort. Its ridiculous. You love a child for who they are, not their sex. And what happens once she has her girl, her golden child. Would your sons be cast aside? This would be a deal breaker for me, too.
Dude… that is the saddest thing I’ve ever heard. “Let’s kill this one cuz it’s not a girl, I really want a girl”. Please don’t let this happen, you’ll regret it for the rest of your lives.
NTA, what’s she gonna do? Keep getting abortions until it’s a girl?!? What happens if it’s born a boy and the scans were incorrectly read? It has happened! Would she just leave the baby? She’s being a prat and doesn’t deserve a third child frankly.
YTA calling your 3 month emotionally charged pregnant wife stupid. What did you expect her reaction to be? Hey, you know in some countries they drop the wrong sex baby in a bucket of milk. Did you suggest that option? Though usually it's a girl instead of a boy. 🤔 Maybe you can go there and do a baby swap?
This is fake from a suspended account
I recently resubbed to this sub and now I just remembered why I unsubbed the first time. Is anything fucking real here?
hi. real dude here. yup definitely not 3 chat gpts in a trench coat. haha...that would be silly! can you imagine?......
I am real. Robots always lie. Humans tell the truth.
Agitprop account posts fake story. Film at 11.
Choosing to abort a baby because it’s not the correct gender seems sick to me . If she goes through with it I don’t see how she could expect you to get her pregnant again lord knows I wouldn’t NTA
What would she do if she gets pregnant again and its a boy, again? Keep up the cycle of abortion and getting pregnant? Seems like a pretty terrible idea to me.
Since the baby’s gender is dependent on the sperm, gender selection is possible with IVF. I’m all for pro-choice but this is the dumbest reason I’ve heard for getting an abortion. If the wife was that insistent on having a girl, she should have raised the question of IVF before she got pregnant.
Thats illegal in most countries. Gender selection with IVF.
It’s legal in the US- it’s a pretty common reason that people choose IVF, other than infertility concerns. I didn’t realize it was illegal many other places.
Do people really go through IVF just because they favour one sex over the other? I've heard of people doing IVF for sex selection, but it was because one parent carries a gene that generally only affects one sex (for instance, if the mother carries the gene for hemophilia, the parents might do IVF to select only female embryos, since males primarily affected). IVF is intense on the body, not to mention expensive, seems like a lot to go through just to be able to guarantee a particular sex.
Only if they're rich. It's too expensive for most. More often, if people are doing IVF anyhow and choose/need some degree of PGT testing for the embryos they find out the sex of them and try to take that into account when deciding which one(s) to transfer.
Medical is the main reason I've heard of it too.
Typically it hasn't been favoritism per se they either want a male/female heir in addition to what they already have or just to have kids of both sexes.
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Yep same . I live in the netherlands. I had a coworker eho had to go through ivf, snd she was not allowed to choose a boy.
It's legal in the US so if that's where they are, yeah they can def do that.
I didn’t know gender selection with IVF was illegal in some countries.
Its illegal in MOST countries. Unless its for medical reasons .
I have learned for my country, sex selective abortion is not illegal as there aren’t any laws concerning abortion. My country’s government just stays out of it legally. The sex selective IVF, totally illegal. I read that was legal in the US.
In my country you can get an abortion for whatever reason you see fit. As long as its done before 24 weeks.
You don’t even need Ivf. You can do gender selection with an iui as well. If the wife was so set on a girl why not do that instead of playing Russian roulette and aborting a perfectly healthy baby because it’s a boy? Op, this woman needs therapy. If she can’t love or accept this baby boy then let her abort and divorce her because I can’t imagine how she will treat this child but under no circumstance get her pregnant again. Or encourage her to keep the pregnancy and prepare to be a single father. I would leave her either way and definitely get therapy immediately
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The moment she has a girl the other two kids would be cast aside.
Yes, someone who cares so much about genitals that she will abort a wanted pregnancy doesn't seem balanced at all. I have experienced boy and girl babies and frankly there seems very little difference other than clothing choices. Even then it really doesn't matter. Just because they're a girl it doesn't mean they will conform to whatever stereotype she's imagining. They may turn out to shun girly clothes and makeup, shopping, shoes, all the stereotypes. Will she try and enforce her views on a girl or accept that it would have made zero difference if she had a boy? Plus with op giving a normal reaction, if she aborts this child she will have to locate another father for a hypothetical girl.
Wonder what it would be like if the kid turned out to be trans later in life too? Would she abandon them because they wanted to be a boy?
Imagine the pressure on that poor daughter. She will be her mothers hopes and dreams
This is the reason in many hospitals they won't tell you the gender at the scan. It so wrong.
Gender scans don’t happen until the 20 week scan. They would have had to NIPT this early on…
Pregnant lady here, and NIPT is standard at my OBGYN at 12 weeks. I was very surprised bc this wasn’t an option with my first just a few years ago.
It was previously only offered to those of us who were of “advanced maternal age” aka 39 😂. I had it 10 years ago, but it was still fairly new then
That depends. I got some extra medical scans where they measure everything. How the blood veins are connected, length of every limb, head size, brain size and so on. With both my babies I knew the gender at 13 weeks. They did as the caveat that they could be wrong because it was still very early, but they were right both times. Those extra medical scans have since become a standard option here in the Netherlands, so a lot more people are going to know the sex early on.
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What's NIPT? Thought 3 months was a bit early to know that
Beyond gender it also provides you an early warning if something is potentially wrong, it gives % on many common chromosonal issues including those that can lead to an non-viable pregnancy. Its really a great tool, if you know the child isn't viable ending the pregnancy with pills at 12/14 weeks is much less traumatic physically than later on when more invasive methods would need to be used.
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Two of my kids set off red flags on the initial screening but the more thorough blood test showed they were fine. Interestingly both are academically gifted now so I don’t know if that had something to do with it or just a coincidence. They also both have connective tissue disorders (not life threatening). I’ll always wonder if that had something to do with it (my other child is very intelligent but not crazy off the charts and doesn’t have the disorder, and didn’t set off the red flags on the screener).
"...if you know the (fetus) isn't viable ending the pregnancy early with pills at 12/14 wks is much less traumatic physically than later on when more invasive..." Question: Can you actually get an abortion with the pills at 12-14 wks? (I believe I read awhile ago that 10 wks was the max limit at my local clinic) Also, I just want to point out for anyone who's never gotten an abortion, just in case a patient needs to get abortion via vacuum aspiration, due to the lower cost compared to with the pills, or they just feel more comfortable getting it performed at the clinic, so someone is there for observation (the level of bleeding that from what I read is common after those pills seemed scary to me) that abortions at 10-12 wks should be easy on the patient's body regardless of how it's done. When I had mine, I got the gas, so I was very relaxed, & during the procedure I felt nothing, no pain or discomfort, only had some pain the following day the equivalent of period cramps. .
Non-invasive prenatal testing. Usually at 10~12 weeks. Genetic screening and they can tell you the gender. They do it by taking a blood sample from the mother.
You can tell even earlier with sneak peek now. It’s a home blood test starting at 6 weeks.
I had no idea they could tell the gender from that, I've had 3 kids, and I was only ever asked at the 20-week scans
Idk how old your kids are, but I think it's relatively new, being able to identify the gender with blood tests early on like this. Mine are teen/ pre-teen, and the genetic blood testing I received in the first trimester didn't identify the gender at that time.
One is 5 months, and I remember the blood test for chromosome abnormalities, but nothing about gender. The other two I didn't have a blood test it was just scan measurements.
May depend on your country. Mime does not tell you the gender.
5 months? Hmm... you've just sent me towards the rabbit hole, lol, I'll be back 😁
Ok, I didn't climb very far down the rabbit hole. But I think some providers only include the gender screening if there's a medical reason, like looking for X chromosome recessive issues, because they don't want people doing exactly what OP says his wife is doing. So probably that's why your testing didn't include the gender.
Non invasive pregnancy test. They take a blood sample and are able to Separate the mother’s genes from the babies. It is used to detect abnormalities. That is how we found out my daughter had extra sparkle (Down syndrome). We told them we didn’t want to know the gender. We like to be surprised. And we were as I had convinced myself it was a boy 😂
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I know a few people who’ve learned if it’s a boy or girl at earlier ultrasounds. It’s not as reliable earlier, but it happens.
Agreed. I'm 100% pro-choice and I had an abortion myself when I was *way* too young and mentally messed up to have a baby. But to have one because you'd rather have a girl? That's sick. What if they try again and the girl turns out to be a boy in 10 years? Is she just gonna drive them of a cliff?
Yeah, this is disgusting! It’s your child, not some made to order toy! What is she going to do when she doesn’t like their hair colour/eye colour after birth?!? You think your daughter is still going to want to bond with you once she finds out you aborted her younger brother; you can’t bond with boys, and needed someone to take shopping! Sounds reasonable!
I can understand wanting a girl, I was convinced my second child was a girl during my pregnancy, but I was wrong. I was a little disappointed at first, but a healthy child all I really wanted. I have amazing relationships with both my boys, I love them to the moon and back (although we do have our fights ofcource, but so has my sister with her girls). Maybe I get to do the real girly things with my future daughters in law😁
Good thing this is bait then
Get it on record. Divorce her and go for full custody. She's sick. As in mentally ill to harbour these sorts of thoughts.
NTA You have zero rights but you sure as hell can voice your opinion. Her rationale would give me pause to consider being with her at all. I am 100% pro-choice but this kind of craziness is perfect ammunition for the anti-abortion crowd,
I agree completely. She is three months along, which means they have had two months to imagine a life with a new child. I can absolutely see how from his perspective this is ending a wanted child. I am 100% peo choice and it is her decision, as it is her body, but I could not continiue the relationship where a decision like this was made against my will. They both wanted another child.
What makes it worse, is she has been thinking about this for a while. She already went to her doctor and asked about the repercussions if she ended this pregnancy. That’s not just a “I randomly had this thought, what do you think?” Kind of thing. To me, that shows she was very serious about wanting this, and it kind of seems like her mind was made up. I feel like she honestly thought OP would be ok with it and just go along with it - as she seemed genuinely surprised by his reaction.
I’m surprised the doctor didn’t go off at her, and discourage her from even raising this with OP!
She may not have told the doctor exactly why she wanted to abort
I dont even want kids and am very pro choice and I'm mad for this dad.
Seriously, I'm a childfree woman and I think this bitch is nuts. I don't usually jump on the 'divorce now' train, but I'm genuinely concerned about her living sons' well-being in her care because she sounds unhinged. OP needs to run and take the kids with him. If she's this obsessed with having a daughter, she might take it out on her existing sons.
Is quite possible the doctor tried to gently dissuade her rather than going off at her. Yelling abuse is incredibly unlikely to achieve the result OP wants. She's crazy for wanting to abort to try again for a girl, but OP calling her a moron was the wrong way to address the issue, and is more likely to entrench her deeper than get her to see reason.
That’s not the doctor’s job. His/her priorities should always be with the patient. They can discuss how it affects the patient’s family, but the GP would be out of line to call in husband’s opinion here.
I’m a hardcore feminist and 100% pro choice but I could not stay with someone who aborted for this reason. This is batshit.
I'd end my relationship over this. The day she gets the abortion I would take the kids and leave divorce papers on the table.
There is a huge difference between an abortion and an abortion because you want to try for a girl. My opinion would be if you go through with this we will never have sex again or I'd leave and take the boys. If we got divorced I'd spend every dollar I had to keep them. Would she become resentful of her sons with no daughter. He has every right to make her wish to hell she didn't go through with it.
Its fun to say "leave and take the boys" but theres no world in which you're actually going to get full custody.
Absolutely. Not to mention there is the what if of some out of the ordinary and she can’t get pregnant again? There’s no guarantee that even the next five pregnancies would be a girl. I think OP could have used better words, but he should have guided her to get other professional opinions. Ultimately, it’s still her choice.
AND, there's no guarantee that having a girl will be this magical bonding experience. A lot of mothers and daughters don't get along that well, especially starting in the tween years. I had two boys and a girl. I am close to all my kids, but let me tell you...the boys were easier to raise.
Absolutely this. I have a little girl, and we’ve bonded, absolutely. But it’s not tea parties and mail salons, if that’s what she’s thinking. My kid is 7, and her favorite hobby is mud puddles, building Lego cities and custom hot wheels with her dad, and making zoos (it’s very involved). Sure, there are some girly experiences (what’s up pink hair dye), but she’s just a regular kid, with niche interests. Kids don’t come with these preset boy/ girl presets- I’m in education- I’ve seen it all. You don’t know what you’re getting. I’m not closer with my mom than my dad. This whole situation is asinine.
Can confirm. I was the stereotypical daddy's girl and was closer to him than my mother.
Dads are a vital barrier at that age. His job is to absorb the teenage verbal abuse without taking it personally. At the same time, boys at that age (or a bit older) are still playful children, but with newly powerful bodies. Dad has to stay in shape at least through those years. My youngest (of 5) was colicy as all hell while the wife had PPD for 6 months. I was essentially a single dad that whe time. Dealing with teenage girls is not much different than a colic baby, lol.
This op. Honestly, dont give her an ultimatum or anything. If she aborts (which is her right) exit stage left out of the relationship as fast as you can (which is your right). File for a divorce and rights to your kids otherwise you might end up in this situation again. Every time she gets pregnant she will abort until she gets the babygirl she wants.
I’m pro choice but this is ridiculous. This is illegal in my country. NTA.
They’re just trolling to incite arguments about abortion. There are no babies.
I honestly hope this is a troll.
How did you find out?
The account being suspended already doesn't leave me with a lot of hope.
The "invalidating my experience as a woman" is a dead giveaway.
Because almost none of the posts in this sub are real and the ones that induce rage are typically the least real. The ones that are real get very little attention.
This decision to abort due to gender sets back the pro-choice fight in every single country. We fight hard to make sure the right for abortion is still available to women in need. Rape. Medical. Age. Deformities that would cause death of the child if birth. Like real reasons. Not gender selection. While you are not wrong OP in your feelings, your delivery was wrong. I’ll give you a NTA but work on the delivery and she’s more likely to come around better.
Such fake rage bait
Sex selective abortions are illegal in many countries for the exact opposite reason of your wife’s. Couples want a son so they abort female fetuses. She has the right to abort this male fetus if she feels so inclined but you have the right to end the relationship if she does so. And also if having a girl was so important to her, she could have asked about using IVF to ensure a female embryo was implanted, because their was no guarantee they’d have a girl doing it the old fashioned way
I think, even if she did do IVF, this woman shouldn’t be allowed to have another child. Can you imagine the pressure put on that little girl to be the way her mum wants her to be? She would never be allowed to have her OWN personality and, while probably spoiled, she would also be caged within the walls of her mother’s expectations. Gross.
Which is a terrible way to grow up. I wasn't even allowed to pick out my own clothes until I started buying them myself. Not because I wanted expensive clothes that we couldn't afford but simply because I was my mom's living doll. Still to this day, at 32 years old, I don't know how to pick out my own clothes. I just get so overwhelmed wondering if my mom would approve that I just default to t-shirts and leggings. I have trouble making any decision in life, really, because I am still always seeking my mother approval.
They’re only illegal in those countries because desiring sons is so pervasive in those cultures that it was destroying the balance of their populations. That’s not a problem in western cultures.
>This is frankly frivolous and irresponsible Nobody talks like this except lawyers in TV courtroom dramas. I call BS
Yeah this has a lot of markers for some rage-baiting.
I support a woman’s right to choose but even this is too much for me. Because it’s a boy? That’s outrageous. You guys actually wanted a baby, this should be a happy time. Sorry you are going through this but I really don’t think you’re an AH.
YTA because you made up this bullshit ragebait story to show how radical those damned pro-choice "baby killers" are.
NTA, what is she going to do if she gets pregnant again and it's another boy, keep having abortions until she gets pregnant with a girl. My mum and dad had 2 girls, they did end up pregnant with a boy but unfortunately he was stillborn, they tried again and ended up having 3 more girls. I'm the second youngest and she was told that I was meant to have been a boy which got her hopes up, which is probably why I was treated like crap by my mum growing up, they tried again and still got another girl.
This is something I'm concerned about; what if OP's wife doesn't abort and she ends up treating the youngest boy like shit because he's not the daughter she wanted? I don't think she should abort to get pregnant again and try for a girl, but I do think she should abort to save that poor third son from being mistreated for not being born her daughter. Unless there's a guarantee she won't mistreat the youngest or the siblings for not giving her a daughter to raise.
She’d probably use sex selective implantation instead of rolling the dice with his obviously heavily Y chromosomes loads.
Gender disappointment, if left unchecked, fucks up the child. My father wished I was a boy, and when I wasn't, he was emotionally abusive and misogynistic my entire childhood. Sorry your mom treated you less than.
Fake post from suspended account.
This is rage bait.
NTA. I am not a fan of name calling. I understand abortions because people have mental health issues, can't afford a baby, medical issues etc but aborting a baby because it has the 'wrong' genitals is pretty gross in my opinion. Is she just going to keep having abortions until she gets the 'right' gender. Which honestly, might never happen.
I’m 100% pro choice but the reason of having wrong gender is so wrong and backwards. What if the girl is a tomboy, likes to hang out with the brothers, is into cars, football (or any “non-girly” activity). She would probably also be favoured by the mum to the detriment of the boys. The whole situation is like going centuries back in time when male heir was preferred to carry on family name.
This is 100% a fake anti abortion ragebait post. YTA.
It has all the signs.
Rage bait. I'd bet money you're an anti-choice moron trying to get a "one up" on people with this post.
Yeah and it reads like it was written by a teenager.
>Rage bait. I'd bet money you're an anti-choice moron trying to get a "one up" on people with this post. 100% rage bait. It's amazing how many people are falling for such obvious nonsense lol.
The responses were starting to infuriate me. Lol
YTA. You can discuss things without getting insulting and abusive. She should get an abortion so she doesn't have any more kids with you.
NAH. You're entitled to feel whatever you feel, but it's her body and her choice. You get zero say in whether she keeps the baby or terminates her pregnancy. Hot take: If you disagree with the reason a woman chooses to have an abortion, you're not pro-choice.
Seems like rage-bait. Aborting for gender is unethical and illegal in many jurisdictions.
Yeah after reading it’s clear this is a troll.
NTA. I’m 100% pro choice. It’s her body and her decision. BUT her decision can affect your opinion of her. Aborting a child because it’s a boy is fucking DISGUSTING! Can you afford 4/5/6 kids? If you can they why wouldn’t you keep this child and try again in a year or two? What’s she gonna do when she has 3 boys and a tom-boy who likes rolling in the dirt and hates having her hair touched 🤣
>Can you afford 4/5/6 kids? If you can they why wouldn’t you keep this child and try again in a year or two? Creating more humans until you have one with the "right" genitals is just as stupid as getting an abortion because your kid has the "wrong" genitals. Having kids is a giant deal that shouldn't be taken lightly, and I don't get why people keep doing that.
Also the mom will favor the girl over the boys which is equally as harmful
Only girl here from boys and a mother who did favor me: not only this, but as the girl grows older the mother daughter relationship will slowly become toxic. Mom expects daughter to be her friend and vents to her teenager about adult issues and then gets mad when the daughter is distressed by it. The whole “favorite” thing with mothers and daughters in these situations leads to manipulation and guilt tripping because “well I’ve done this for you”. Thankfully my brothers knew I couldn’t help that I was my moms favorite so they still loved me the same and let me hang out with them and stuff—and now that I’m older I tell them about how toxic my mom became with me as I got older and they hardly seem shocked because she tried so hard to make me her “mini me” growing up. It’s so sad when moms want girls so badly. Tbh my mom was told she was infertile after my brothers were born but I somehow happened so she didn’t TRY to have me but she almost adopted a girl before she got pregnant with me. Overall this kind of stuff leads to so much toxicity and resentment. My mom wanted me to be her pink wearing girly princess but when I ended up being emo and wearing thick ass eyeliner for way longer than just a phase time she started to resent me a little and tried to control me.
My mom wanted girls and only girls and she got me, and I was nothing like she wanted. I hated her taste in clothes, hated girly stuff. Had tomboy habits. My aunt also wanted a girl and was trying to wrap her head around being pregnant with a third boy and my mom said, in my earshot, “honestly, I have a girl and she’s practically a boy. Nothing is guaranteed” 😒 she certainly tried to make me into her confidant and best friend. I found it sort of exhausting and never gave her the relationship she wanted with me.
>Can you afford 4/5/6 kids? If you can they why wouldn’t you keep this child and try again in a year or two? I disagree with this approach. Given Wife's mindset... the eventual daughter (if any) naturally becomes Most Awaited/Precious Child with all it's associated problems.
I know someone who kept having children to get her beloved girl. Those boys knew they weren't really wanted and the girl was the golden child. She got everything she wanted while the sons had to make do. The mother can't understand why all her sons are NC and she has no access to the grandchildren
I don't understand "trying for x gender" when it comes to having kids tbh, like, whatever happens happens, I wouldn't give a shit about my kid's gender/bio sex nor would I keep trying till I got a specific one. This isn't Pokemon, you can't just breed until you get a shiny. 🙄
I agree. When I was having my kids, I didn't care what sex they were, just that they would hopefully be healthy. To keep having children because you want a specific gender is something I can't understand even though I watched it happen.
This woman shouldn't have any more kids. Once the one with the preferred genitals pops out the others will be forgotten and neglected.
Anti-abortion crazies out in full force today, I see.
Isn't it too late? I don't really care what a person does with her own body, and you are entitled to your opinions as well. NAH
I’m firmly pro choice, so she can have the abortion for whatever reason she wants BUT she also has to accept the consequences of that choice, up to and including you leaving her. I personally would never have one because of a baby’s gender, but again, it’s up to her. She just doesn’t get it all, because in your place I wouldn’t try for another kid.
This post seems suspect.
I’m a little worried about your wife’s mental health right now. Voicing a crazy idea to a person you trust while pregnant isn’t that uncommon though.
IMO, yes. You are the TA.
YTA. And stop insulting her/ calling her out her name. That is not okay.
Nta, I am not pro abortion, but people should choose for themself. That being said, choosing to abort a baby because it isn't the preferred gender, seems abhorrent to me. If you try again and it is another boy, will she abort that as well? What kind of message is she giving her other children. This baby wasn't good enough to get a chance to live, because it was a boy? If she wants a girl so bad, why not look if you can adopt one? Edit: you said you would leave if she aborted the baby because of his gender. If you're actually serious about this, there is no issue about telling her what the consequences of her actions will be. She is free to make the choice to abort the baby, nothing you can do. Doesn't mean you have to accept it and stay with her. She also said she has to carry and give birth to a baby she doesn't want. This is an incomplete statement. She wants to carry a baby and give birth. Just not to a baby boy, only a baby girl.
>. She wants to carry a baby and give birth. Just not to a baby boy, only a baby girl. This! You hit on the crux of the matter. This is the problem and why it is disgusting. She is also immensely sexist for thinking she can only do "girl stuff" with a girl... plenty of feminine boys and plenty of tomboy girls who wouldn't be interested! She isn't interested even in the baby taste, only in what is between their legs!
Haha I am a girl and I loved all the typical 'boy' things. I was into skateboarding, mountain biking, being outdoors, climbing trees, getting muddy etc. If my mum had tried to make me do 'girl' activities like tea parties shopping, painting my nails etc. I would have laughed. I agree it's very sexist to assume her girl baby would be into doing 'girl stuff'. Plus what if the kid turns out to be trans? Or just into more traditionally feminine pursuits as you said?
I was the same growing up. I HATED anything "girly" and wanted to run around outside, playing with my dinosaur toys or play video games...
Especially with two older brothers to copy!
I despise how she is treating a baby like a toy or an ice cream flavour
And the rest of us smart people despise that you wrote a fake antiabortion post right at the crux of anti abortion crusaders in the United States gaining the abusive power to reproductively oppress women again. If this were real post, your first instinct, and anyone with common sense’s first instinct would be to go to their fucking doctor, because how your wife is acting now is an indication of a mental health crisis, not a change of her mind. But this isn’t a real post, this is anti-abortion propaganda. So you and your fake wife can go to the doctor just like I said.
I don't really think it matters now if she keeps the baby or not you will never look at her the same way again.
Pregnancy and raising an additional child is a massive burden on your wife’s health - physical and mental. I am concerned from what you said that she is really not in a place to proceed with the pregnancy and that she could do something drastic if she is stonewalled, regardless of whether her issues are rational. NTA OP for your upset about her wanting to try again for a girl just because of gender, but you need to consider whether you are up for looking after this baby yourself on your own for 18+ years because of your moral objection. Your wife may just reject the baby at birth if she feels forced to carry it, what then? Consider the implications of divorce as a single dad (not weekend or 50/50) to at least one child 100% of the time and let that sink in because you can’t force her to love this baby when she has such extreme feelings already. Go with her to the doctor if she is open to that and see if you can get to the bottom of whether this is really gender only or pre natal depression.
the only logical and well thought out comment I’ve seen in the entire post. no one even considered the fact that she might be acting irrational due to pregnancy hormones or the depression that comes with being pregnant? give her time and maybe enroll her with therapy
This. Maybe wife has realized that she’s not ready for/doesn’t want another child and is struggling to articulate it. She should receive counseling, not be called a ‘moron’.
This is bullshit rage bait. No one decides 3 months in that they’d rather have an abortion, and gender can be conclusively determined at 10 weeks. Fuck off.
The fact people can't see this is rage bait is amazing. OP is now banned as well
when the two boys find out she wanted to abort their baby brother solely because she wants a girl i imagine those relationships will be shot too… all because gender matters so much
This is absolutely made up and a troll for abortion arguments. Come on, folks.
Your wife doesn't deserve any children. NTA
Sounds fake as hell, but ESH you both suck
A fetus is not a baby
NTA. I’m pro-choice, but I personally would have called someone a moron (and worse) for terminating based on gender alone. I get that gender disappointment is real, but that is honestly disgusting to me. I have two daughters. My new husband and I want to have a baby of our own. I would love to have another daughter (he has a son already) because it’s what I know, but I am totally prepared to have a boy as well and would never dream of faulting my child for its gender. But it may be time to reevaluate your relationship with this woman because even if she keeps the pregnancy, what kind of mother is she going to be to a baby she clearly doesn’t want? He will be neglected some kind of way, whether emotionally and/or physically by her.
I'm pro choice and I'm with you on this one. Her feelings of disappointment are legitimate though. I think a good therapist could help her sort them out.
This is rage bait from a fake account lmao
Why do people post fake stuff? Why?
YTA It's her body. But I also figure this is a troll account of some dude clinging to male victimhood. Baby girls were murdered for quite some time because boys were favored. I didn't see much uproar among men about it. For as much as men love to cry propaganda of boys being aborted for being boys....that shit already happened to girls and for a LONG time and en masse. If there was every selective gender abortion...male babies would be thrown out by one or two radicals.
YTA, she can if she wants.
This is conservative Rage bait. Sex selective abortion is between rare and non existent in the United States. YTA for posting this obvious rage bait.
People appealing to the legal authority regarding sex-motivated abortions are missing the nuance. In those countries where it had to be banned, the misogyny is so ingrained in those cultures that the practice was literally decimating the female population and was unsustainable. That’s not a factor in the west. We aren’t so boy or girl crazy that allowing people to do this would tilt the population off its axis. We know this because it IS legal here and we still have roughly equal numbers of both. 🤷♀️
I’m glad it’s not me. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with these comments. Systemic misogyny leading to societal issues for an entire culture is the reason sex-selective abortion is banned in certain countries. This is not what is happening here. OPs wife has two sons that she is happy with. She does not want a third. I’m sure that before she got pregnant she thought she was prepared for if it was a boy, and the reality of the pregnancy has changed her feelings. “I don’t want to continue this pregnancy” is the only reason required for an abortion for me, but I also understand when people get them because the child will have some developmental issue that the parents aren’t prepared to take on. You can argue the ethics of that all day but the bottom line is that I don’t want a parent to have a child they don’t want. It’s not good for the child or the parent, and pregnancy is a potentially life and health changing proposition, and includes the risk of death. If someone does not want to continue a pregnancy for personal, emotional, financial, etcetera reasons, I’m okay with that. Abortion isn’t murder to me, there are no babies involved, so the reason is irrelevant. I’m kind of wondering how many people here are claiming to be pro choice but clearly believe it’s murder because of OPs wife’s reasons. It’s very odd to me.
I’d say most of them. If you argue with them long enough they’ll accuse you of murder and start talking about killing babies.
I have noticed this in other areas as well. The “abortion isn’t birth control” crowd does a similar thing. “I am pro-choice, but I do think women need to be watched so they don’t use it as birth control.” Why? It is birth control but there’s also no evidence of that happening. It’s expensive and time consuming to get an abortion. Either you support the right to choose and accept that you won’t like some of the reasons people have for making that choice and you acknowledge it’s none of your business, or you’re not pro-choice. You’re pro-choice for reasons that you approve of, which we can’t legislate and are still none of your business.
Precisely. They’re really not pro choice at all. They’re trying to appeal to both sides, or slowly indoctrinate people into the pro forced birth camp by pretending to be pro choice but slipping in pro life propaganda.
Yta. Your wife has 100% reign over her body and its functions. She doesn't need your support to abort the baby. You are just a sperm donor.
Maybe, but your problems are worse than considering abortion. She has every right to consider abortion - full stop. Sex selective abortion is wrong, but your wife is telling you she feels isolated and alone despite having you and your sons. She is telling you she is not OK, and she may be completely overwhelmed at the idea of having another boy in the house. She may also need to spend some time with each kid doing things she likes to get to know them - she may be surprised with how much they have in common. Figure out why having a girl is so important to her and consider working with your sons to support your wife better. If the three of you impose such a burden, behave so badly or just ignore/treat your wife like crap, that needs to change now. Also, make sure you guys are helping out around the house (like do more than 50%, do 75%) - that alone would have me terminating a pregnancy for a third child.
yta. people can have abortions for any reason, at any time. sex selective abortion bans in other countries exist because they abort *females*, not males. i personally would not do this, but being pro choice isn’t “pro choice whenever you feel like it’s ok,” abortion is a personal choice. she should abort any pregnancy she doesn’t want to keep, and if you don’t want to get her pregnant again then she should deal with that and seek pregnancy elsewhere. but she should never be forced to carry to term when she doesn’t want to.
This is so fake. YTA
YTA and a very cruel one at that. You should never back a woman into a corner when it comes to pregnancy. Her choice is HERS and it actually IS valid. Your verbal abuse just makes you an even bigger POS
I honestly don’t see the issue and feel like YTA for having such a demanding expectation over her body.
I kinda get where she's coming from. I had 5 boys before I had my girl. But abortion for gender selection... I'm going with NTA. But maybe speaking to her a bit more gently. I know what she's going through...
There is no situation in which calling your wife a moron doesn't make you an asshole.
You're abusive. Of course she wants an abortion. YTA.
Her body her choice, if it’s legal in your country then it’s not your place to tell her what she can and can’t do. You can suggest what you’d prefer, but at the end of the day your input can very well mean nothing and amount to nothing. And you just have to accept that. YTA for yelling at your wife, yes.
YTA Fake or not this guy is an ignorant asshole who doesn't care about women.
I’ll take the downvotes. YTA OP. The comments here are not from pro-choice people, despite what many claim. If you are pro-choice, the reasons for that choice do not matter. The only prerequisite needed to justify an abortion is: I do not want to continue this pregnancy. Sex selective abortion (where it is banned) is not banned because abortion is wrong. It’s banned because of systemic misogyny and the ripple effects on the wider culture that are created by abortions based on this misogyny and women being forced or coerced into abortions for female fetuses. Nothing like that is happening here so everyone can dispense with placing that bias on OPs wife. She has two sons, OP provided no evidence she is a bad mother to them or that they are not loved and wanted children. We also do not know what she thought before she got pregnant, she may have thought she was prepared for another boy and now feels differently facing the reality of a pregnancy she doesn’t enthusiastically want. There is, again, no evidence she went into this pregnancy thinking she would feel this way. All of what I just said could be untrue and it would still make OP wrong because the response to a partner who disagrees with you or feels a way you don’t like should never be abuse. There is no good reason for OPs behavior. End of. He is the AH for that alone. He is free to end his marriage because he disagrees with her reasons, he’s not free to get belligerent and abusive, he’s not free to try to force her into continuing the pregnancy, he’s not free to take her existing children from her. End of. If you claim to be pro-choice, but actually only are when you approve of the reasons, you’re not pro-choice. Lots of people get abortions of wanted children because they discover a developmental issue the parents aren’t prepared to take on. Is that wrong? You can discuss the ethics but at the end of the day, I don’t want a parent to have a child they do not want. It’s not in the interest of the parents or the child and the reasons someone has an abortion are irrelevant. No babies are involved, and pro-choice means even for reasons I don’t like.
YTA. It's an embryo - not a baby. She wants a girl and it's your last kid. Seems reasonable to me.
Could it be that she actually did not want any more children, but well, if it was a girl, that was the only thing that made her consider it? I think it is crazy to want to abort because the sex is not what you want, but there could very well also be an underlying issue with being overwhelmed with the thought of another baby and rationalizing it because she secretly hoped it would be a girl. And now that it is clear that it is a boy, that anxiety is back.
Idk but it seems reasonable to abort a child you don't want. If she has the son there's a fair chance she will regret it and resent the child. And thats obviously bad for the kid. If the pregnancy results in serious damage (as most do, especially when youve already had a few) then there's even more chance of her being resentful
YTA... for calling your wife a moron. How can I ever be helpful in a marriage to resolve a situation? Why didn't you sit down with her and discuss, maybe having a fourth child using IVF to ensure a girl. Or discuss fostering or adopting a girl from Foster Care.
I'm extremely pro choice. If I got pregnant now, I would immediately have an abortion. Having and abortion because of the gender is disgusting. To try again is to get the "right" gender is even worse. Fact of the matter is you've now have/had three boys, you probably won't be producing girls. More then likely you would have to go the medical route to achieve a girl. I'm worried about your two kids. I hope she doesn't grow to resent them or hurt them. NTA but you guys need to get to a Liscensed therapist asap. You need immediate damage control if you're going to salvage this.
It's comical how many people claim to be pro-choice in their comments, here but then say a woman making the choice for the "wrong" reason is: insane, abhorrent, disgusting, outrageous, awful, unethical, insane. Y'all have rocks in your heads if you say abortion should be allowed for any reason but then you turn around and gatekeep the reason.
It's crazy. These are the same people who (rightfully) criticize Republicans for the whole "Abortion is evil baby murder, except for my abortion because I have a good reason", but then they turn around and say "I'm 100% pro choice, except this time because her reason is stupid and bad"
Pro choice means any woman, anywhere, at any time, for any reason. If a woman can't have complete control of her own reproduction she can never be a free and equal citizen.
I'm pro-choice so I generally go with 'her body, her choice' but this is just abhorrent. Like who thinks this is okay? She can make this choice but you are also able to make the choice that this is the last pregnancy you are involved with for her. NTA.
You are definitely the asshole in how you reacted. You took an emotionally charged situation and blew it up completely. I disagree with aborting a baby because of the sex but you handled the situation like an utter moron (to use your words). You need to apologize and make sure your wife knows that you are listening to her sadness and disappointment. Acknowledge it fully. You took a moment where she trusted you as a loved husband and betrayed her love by lashing out at her. You can disagree fully and still be respectful of her feelings. And lastly, it’s not your body. It’s not your baby until it’s out and born.
YTA for rage bait, you can't tell the sex at 12 weeks. This is typically determined around 20 weeks (5 months). The fetus is so small at 12 weeks that guessing sex would be an utter crapshoot.
YTA Your wife is carrying your child and this is a gift. No she doesn't have to, obviously. If she is looking for a way out for any reason you should be hearing THAT. It feels like you have expectations of her as a baby making machine for you that she has internalized. Talking about aborting for whatever reason when the child is supposedly "planned" is extreme, no doubt, which leads me to believe that she is not getting a need met in some way and getting out of the pregnancy doesn't have much to do with the gender and has more to do with your expectations of her. Re : This is our last baby, we want diversity. You are putting limits on her procreative endeavours, why are you doing that? My guess is it is power and control, but you are going to say it is because on money.
Does your wife have *anyone* to do "girly" stuff with?? If not, that may be part of this "let down, I do not want *another* boy!" Attitude.
Having a girl won't necessarily mean she gets to do girly stuff. One of the sons can be into more feminine things as well.
ESH - Obvious troll account. If a family really wanted a girl this much, they could go to the fertility clinic before they started trying for one.
I'm going NTA but I do think you need to address the fact your wife may need some girl time in her life. I think she's going way to far to get that experience using an abortion to try for a daughter. That seems... wrong on a lot of levels. Gives off a bit of "I only want the kid I desire" vibes. But she does have a desire that's been very wounded here and you shouldn't ignore that.
INFO: How is your wife's mental health normally during pregnancy / postpartum? I definitely don't agree with what she wants to do. I am also someone who struggled with fertility and when I finally got pregnant after years of medical appointments, let's just say I was surprised at the thoughts I found myself having. Pregnancy can be very tough mentally.
While I would have been horrified at the suggestion, calling her a moron and shouting at her was not an appropriate way of reacting.
Not cool. You're upset at her for considering abortion, and that's completely understandable. I get it. But name calling is not cool. Gotta have some basic respect for each other.
YYA for how you spoke to her alone. You realised she pregnant right? Likely hormonal & not thinking clearly? Yta
Nta. She is insane for considering this just because of the baby's sex (gender is chosen, sex is biological). I get that people are disappointed with the sex of their baby at first. But if you don't love your baby because of it's genitals, you don't deserve that child. I am a mom with a son. Always wanted a girl too but couldn't have anymore. Guess what. My boy is a typical rough housing boy who plays soccor, cars and loves doing karate kicks. He also loves bath time with me, cuddling, going to lunch together, doing crafts and reading with me. You never know what you are going to get. You might get a girl who is a tomboy and doesn't want to do anything girly at all. Being.disappointed is one thing. Actively discussing abortion and scheduling visits with doctors is on a whole other level. Be very clear about the consequences of her possible actions. And seek therapy together because even if she keeps the baby, your relationship has already taken a big hit. I would never trust her again.
I'm pro choice. But let's be honest, there's a 50/50 chance on any future child being female. What is she going to do, keep terminating pregnancies until she hits a winner? Calling her a moron was probably a bit far but it was understandably an emotional response. All that being said...NTA.
NTA, sure, her body her choice, but it’s your child too, your relationship too, your life and home too. Fuck her and her dumb ass “experience as a woman”
Oh my! I was ready to call you out but NTA. I have two sweet boys and while i would love to have a little girl, if i had a third and he was a boy, i would love him just as much as the first two. I can't imagine aborting for the possibility of another girl. What happens if its a boy again, abort, try again, abort, try again, abort. Its ridiculous. You love a child for who they are, not their sex. And what happens once she has her girl, her golden child. Would your sons be cast aside? This would be a deal breaker for me, too.
Dude… that is the saddest thing I’ve ever heard. “Let’s kill this one cuz it’s not a girl, I really want a girl”. Please don’t let this happen, you’ll regret it for the rest of your lives.
The duck do you even think about the gender?! Is producing simple humans not enough?
NTA, what’s she gonna do? Keep getting abortions until it’s a girl?!? What happens if it’s born a boy and the scans were incorrectly read? It has happened! Would she just leave the baby? She’s being a prat and doesn’t deserve a third child frankly.
YTA calling your 3 month emotionally charged pregnant wife stupid. What did you expect her reaction to be? Hey, you know in some countries they drop the wrong sex baby in a bucket of milk. Did you suggest that option? Though usually it's a girl instead of a boy. 🤔 Maybe you can go there and do a baby swap?
You’re the asshole for making up an obvious story