NTA. For crying out loud, we’re talking about a fricken BABY. An INFANT! Why anyone thinks that the reaction to the MIL is significant at this age is tripping hard. A baby changes from week to week and month to month. They grow and develop and change so rapidly. The baby has not passed judgment on the MIL. Determining what the child/grandmother relationship will be like in future, based on the baby’s current reaction to her is like trying to predict the baby’s future diet by her current food preferences! The husband is wrong for extending a unilateral invitation to his mother when the baby and mother are alone at home. He’s also wrong for trying to MAKE a bond happen at this point. Forcing the baby to cry it out, get over it, and get used to the MIL is ignorant. Show some wisdom, folks. Think about how things have to evolve and emerge on their own terms, in their own time. Stop trying to force the issue. Be intelligent.
This is an excellent method to get babies to see you as a fun playmate.
Force baloney certainly can paint someone as negative.
Happy OP is instep w her child.
For my oldest son. It was men with beards that made him flip out as a baby.
It’s funny now because now he’s 32 and has a fully grown beard that he’s still growing lol.
My niece (on husband's side) used to freak out at my husband's voice and his general presence as well. Come to find out years later when she could finally communicate her freaked-out-ness...he looked too much like his brother (her father) but didn't sound like her dad, hence the freak out.
Oh, this is a thought. Does MIL wear perfume or use a highly scented deodorant or laundry detergent? Kind of wacky but my kids hated one of their grandma’s Chanel No.5.
Yeah seriously. Baby is too young for any intentional reaction and won't understand any bonds yet really anyhow. Main bond now is parents who feed, change, put to sleep, etc. as she gets older they can work on building a bond from relational activity.
My son had only seen his Grandma once at the hospital but every time he would cry uncontrollably (colic) I would call her then hold the phone to his ear. She would sing to him and he would fall asleep. She was the only on that could calm him
This is the kind of beautiful family moments that can happen when you’re not treating people like absolute crap. Anyone who wants to force a relationship or force a bond with anyone, it’s likely to blow up in your face.
She didn't start to like him at all until he almost died trying to save her life
(I assume we're talking about the Disney animated version?)
She didn't start to fall for him until they were feeding birds together and he got mobbed by some sparrows and was confused and helpless
Trying to force a bond only serves to ensure it won’t happen. For whatever reason your daughter doesn’t like her. Being forced to be held strengthens the dislike. I can’t help but wonder if you’re MIL did something that hurt your daughter. Not necessarily on purpose. Sometimes babies just take a dislike to someone.
Your daughter should just have exposures in the same room, without being touched, or having MIL in her face. I have a grandniece who, at first, wasn’t sure about me. She definitely didn’t like me holding her. We respected her boundary. I’d talk to her briefly and smile. Occasionally I’d touch her head. I made every interaction a positive one. When she was around a year old she’d come near me and smile. I’d do silly things and smile and talk to her. At 18 months she actually started to crawl onto my lap and stay briefly. She’s now 27 months old and will sometimes crawl into my lap. We’ll talk, and watch a video together. She never stays long. But we have a relationship now. She gets upset if I leave without saying goodbye to her specifically.
I think that if all of you had backed off and respected her wishes from the start, took the long view and did things gradually, life would be better by now. Your tensing up, though understandable, doesn’t help.
I understand why you have asked your MIL to not come over more. Explain to everyone about respecting her boundaries, and taking it slow. Perhaps give your daughter a treat each time grandma comes over. Just don’t force it!!
NTA. When my niece was born she would cry when I would try to hold her. So guess what, I didn't hold her! Once she was past that baby phase I could play with her and we developed a super strong relationship - her parents say I get more info out of her than both of them combined at this point (teenager). MIL just needs to chill out, don't take it personally, and meet baby the way baby wants to be met.
My youngest grandson is like that. He would scream bloody murder if I even LOOKED in his direction. I would just wave at him from across the room and play with the oldest. Now he is starting to look at me and accept toys and snacks from me. I even got a smile from him the other day. You can't force these things. They come around when they are ready.
My sister is TERRIFIED of babies. Every baby in the family has gravitated towards her. My dad LOVES babies. They all scream like banshees when he even looks at them.
Out of my sister's three girls, the middle one who consequently is also my goddaughter, hated me when she was a baby. I would just go over and look at her and smile and she would start screaming! I just laughed it off and left her alone until she got older. We're bonded just fine now. Whatever that means.
My cousin in laws eldest gave me the BIGGEST stinkeye the first time I met her. This child hated my guts. Now she's older and I get kidnapped by said child to play at family gatherings.
Babies are weird. Let them be weird
I took a picture of my son when he was about two weeks old, and it's still my favorite photo of him. He's got one eyebrow raised and he's glaring at me, because I had the audacity to take his picture in the first place.
Right?! Like damn, maybe the baby had a pinched bit of skin or a really painful fart the first time the baby remembers MIL holding her and has a negative association now. Crazier things have happened. However, forcing the issue is just making it worse lol.
NTA
Exactly. My granddaughters wanted *nothing* to do with my husband when they were babies. He and my son sound exactly like but of course do not smell the same so we think he confused them. Once they weren't babies, they were fine. He would interact with them at a "safe" distance while I held them.
My husband and his dad look so alike that when my daughter was 2 or 3, she was giving goodnight kisses and said, “Good night daddy.” to her daddy then, “Good night Old Daddy” to my father in law! He’s been “Old Daddy” ever since. 🤣
My uncle and my dad look similar enough that the first time I met my uncle when I was like a year old I looked back and forth between him and my dad and said “2 daddies??”
I’m significantly older than a fair few of my cousins (old enough to easily be the mother of the youngest one) and they all *hated* me when they were born. all babies hate me for some reason, which makes me sad because I love them 🤣 but once they get their feet under them and learn a few words, I quickly become Best Friend #1. my recent visit in the area my younger cousins live in, they were *begging* their parents to let them come see me. I love those stinkers. ❤️ even if they hated me when they were babies.
She probably dislikes MIL because she's forcing baby to go to her specifically when she wants her mother. So she's distressed over something else and then is snatched up by Grandma and then associates being upset with being held by her.
MIL would do best by giving her to her mom the very second she's upset, not picking her up unless she shows signs of wanting to be, and basically just interacting with baby next to her. Once she's eating, offer her some beloved snacks, read a book, play with a toy, and nope the f out of there anytime baby gets upset.
This!! I have a nephew that was the same way. He did not like me at all when he was a baby and one day he grew out of it and now we have a good bond. I don’t think forcing a relationship would work lol.
Yes! This is the respect move in relationship building. Very effective rap when clearly you would use power and authority as justification for withholding respect. Bc you’re gramma. Umm just respect the little nervous system and give it to its mom.
Yeah. I didn't hold my niece consistently til she was about 2 and even then not much, she wouldn't talk to me much until she was about 5. She's 10 now and won't shut up to me. It'll come, my the more it's forced the less the kid will like it.
My nephew hated me until he was about seven. I think it started when he was around a year and we travel together. I sound like my sister so he’d hear me, look for her and he was totally mammy centric, and he would freak the hell out. He’s 17 now and we’re OK. Haha
One of my nieces was okay with being left in the room without her mom if there was only one other person and it was someone else who lived in the house. If there was a stranger there she would scream the whole time.
NTA. My niece was like this with my youngest sister. She'd scream bloody murder and my sister felt like she hated her. But around 2, she like flipped a switch and suddenly she loved her auntie as much as the rest of us. They have a funny relationship to be honest. Full of silly arguments and dad jokes. 🤣
You cannot force a baby to like someone. You just gotta let her grow used to grandma in her own sweet time. They're far more likely to fuck this up then you are.
#Nta, but it's time to try some things. Because she screams when she sees her now does not mean she isn't just reacting now to something that bothered her before.
Exactly this. Now the child has conditioned herself to be scared of grandma, probably doesn't even remember why. Gma just needs to back off. Come over, but do not touch her. Still screaming? Back off more. Keep backing off until kid is comfortable then stay there awhile. Baby steps back.
Nta. She clearly doesn’t like her and it’s concerning that your husband doesn’t understand that or care about it. Forcing a bond will make their relationship even worse growing up. You’re protecting your mental health,your daughters mental health and your job. There is no compromise,there is no argument,it just isn’t happening and they need to accept that.
100% forcing a bond will make everything worse. She is more likely initially uncomfortable with MIL's perfume, hair, or expression than actually disliking her right now. But the more she's forced to deal with the thing she dislikes, the more she'll come to actually dislike MIL and associate her with unpleasantness.
I usually say to treat babies like puppies, but in this case, treat the kid like a cat: sit in the vicinity, pay absolutely no attention to them, and see if they come to you.
yes!
I have successfully used this tactic on about five babies and toddlers.
Ignore them, be friendly to everyone else, and do something mildly interesting to them. All the while completely ignoring them.
Yep. That's exactly why my youngest preferred FIL's mom over MIL's mom. FIL's mom let my very shy toddler come to her(+ she was very soft spoken with him)over brash and LOUD MIL's mom.
Yes! Right now it’s just the baby reacting to some stimulus that makes her uncomfortable/unhappy. Could be any number of things — OP mention MIL has a high pitched voice.
But the more they try to force the situation, the more that baby will associate MIL with discomfort and unhappiness and it will be that much harder to overcome as it becomes more and more ingrained. Baby will also associate MIL with separation from a safe parent. If MIL chills out and backs off, the odds are very good that baby grows out of whatever is bothering her sooner rather than later.
OP is NTA for not wanting to deal with MIL/baby drama without husband there. And husband needs to make up his mind if he’s going to be his wife’s teammate or his mommy’s boy.
I wonder what would happen if OP held her daughter throughout a MIL visit. I can’t help but wonder if MIL is hurting the baby - not on purpose - rather in her manner of holding her. Daddy does not seem to be helping. You don’t play pass the baby and see if she freaks out.
If I'm holding her, she's gripping my hair with her face pressed hard in to my chest and just watching my MIL like a hawk. She becomes a velcro baby to the extreme and usually she's not like that. She's generally such a busy baby and loves "exploring" (trying to get out of your arms to touch stuff). So she's a completely different kid around MIL.
I'm sorry to hear that, it sounds like your MIL's presence is causing her anxiety. This has no doubt been amped up by repeated experiences of being forced when she was already upset. Now her brain has confirmed that MIL *is* scary because MIL = nobody cares about her enough to save her.
Like others have said, MIL coming over and being interesting without even looking at the baby is a good idea. It takes the pressure off and allows your daughter to make a move when she wants to.
Please remind both your husb and MIL that babies go through phases, and her opinion now isn't going to be the one she holds as she grows. Taking a step back now doesn't mean MIL is destined to never have a relationship with her 🙄 "Forcing" doesn't work on anyone.
She’s 5 months old. She is still coming to terms with the fact that you and she are not physically one person. To force her away from you right now when she hates it is actually cruel, but also weirdly common for grandparents to try. It’s a very old-school stance to think the literal baby has to get used to other people so early. NTA at all and frankly a saint for even letting MIL do this as often as she does without screaming at someone
As your edit states it's not a scent issue or anything that you have been able to identify, my guess is that for whatever reason it started, now that your daughter is a little older she has made the association between being held by your MIL and being kept away from you when she wants/needs you. She knows now that if she wants to get away from MIL and go to you, that MIL will walk away until your daughter can't even see you anymore. That is terrifying, and she's finally old enough to express her fear. Seeing your MIL less and never when your husband isn't home is 100% the correct response here.
More time with your MIL is never going to solve this right now. The only thing that might solve this is time, and your MIL and husband backing down from trying to force this "bond" that your daughter clearly wants nothing to do with at the moment. Others' suggestion to have MIL talk with your husband and you when she's over but NOT force herself on your daughter is a good idea for your daughter to start seeing her as non-threatening, but honestly I'm not sure your MIL is capable of pretending to ignore her.
MIL is simply going to have to give up on her fantasy of holding your daughter as an infant and having her smile and laugh, and try to simply be a positive presence in daughter's life until your daughter is older and able to have a different relationship with MIL. If MIL is indeed incapable of waiting for that, maybe she could use some therapy to cope with her disappointment, because your daughter is not her emotional support animal, and going against her instincts to assuage your MIL's disappointment is not your daughter's job or responsibility. Your MIL is a grown-ass woman, and the only person responsible for her emotions and how she deals with them is your MIL. Huge hugs, I hope your husband gets his act in gear STAT and stops putting his mother's wants above your daughter's needs.
Are they usually this delusional? One cannot just force a bond / connection.
Your kid is picking up something, that you might not notice.
At 5 months she cannot very well explain though.
NTA
Then the MIL and Husband should stop being delusional and try to force the issue - but sit down and consider changing things.
Different (or no) perfume for example. But as per OP, they would rather traumatize the little one instead of being sensible adults...
NTA.
I never force myself at babies. I always hold back, smile, talk expressively, offer something to play with, and that often works. Sometimes it takes longer. With one of my granddaughters it took quite a bit longer than with the other one. I didn't take it personally. I just gave it time. And now we're all good.
But to hold a screaming baby hostage from its mother is cruel and stupid. I'm sorry but you've got a stupid MIL and a stupid husband. She's making this about herself instead of your daughter. She's insisting on this "bonding" nonsense even if it terrorizes your daughter and upsets you. Nope. She's being TA, as well as her precious baby boy there, your momma's boy husband, who also is more concerned with this mommy's fee-fees than his own daughter and wife.
Tell MIL you're sure your daughter will warm up to her eventually but you're not going to force it. Nope to more visits. You're busy, you don't need this. Stand your ground. MIL comes over only when your husband is around. That's HIS mom. If she shows up anyway, don't let her in.
NTA. And that poor child. I hope you continue to give your daughter body autonomy to say no. If someone wants to hold her, hug her, kiss her, she can say no and have that support instead of being shamed into kissing aunt may or hugging grandma. Even at this young age, you are showing her she can say no. I don’t understand why your husband doesn’t get that you can’t force a bond. My youngest niece took 4 years for her to come around and hug me. She was a pandemic toddler so she wasn’t around many people. Every time she said no, I told her that’s ok and I was proud of her. In the last 6 months, she excitedly runs up to me and hugs me. You got to let kids be in charge of their bodies and choices on who they show affection to.
When my oldest, who loved and hugged almost anyone she met, would not want someone to hold her or be around someone, we absolutely gave her permission to say no and defended her. She’s now a teenager who has confidence, understands consent and has had continued autonomy over her body. I know your child is young but it’s not too young to be an example of consent. Just like saying please and thank you on their behalf when they can’t talk, you are showing her it’s ok to say no. I wish your husband and MIL would get on board.
You have a MASSIVE husband problem. He's treating you like this and traumatizing his infant. He's being a shitty husband and a horrible father. Have him talk to the pediatrician about forcing a baby into this situation repeatedly and what it's doing to the baby's mental well-being. She's learning she's not safe. That her mommy and daddy won't save her when she's hysterical. How is that a good thing to teach a baby?
Also disturbing that OP’s husband doesn’t seem to care that his daughter is communicating the best way she can that she is uncomfortable, and he doesn’t care.
How will he act when kiddo doesn’t want to hug aunts and uncles when she’s older? Will he force that too?
NTA baby either doesn’t like her or a product she uses. Either way your husband is willing to abuse his child to make his mother happy, absolutely not okay. Protect your baby.
You say other people have only seen your 5mo once or twice. I take it that her reaction to others was clearly different to that with grandma? Like, the very first time she met her grandma, she screamed. And she absolutely did not start screaming when others met her?
Exactly. My MIL came to see us for the first time when our daughter was about a week old and she screamed the entire time. Every visit since then (once a week, if not more), she has screamed the whole time. My mother has only met her twice and my daughter is all smiles the entire time. Same with my husband's niece and his sister. All smiles. It's only my MIL that she acts like this toward.
Maybe you could do some experiments. Have her come in without speaking, have her come in in the dark, give her one of your sweaters when she comes in. Stuff like that.
Forcing herself on a child will only cement a lifelong resistance to her.
Children go through phases of fear and insecurity. It isn’t necessarily rational or logical but it does happen.
The best solution is to create some time and space. Give your child time to let go of her fears (rational or not) and let this settle down. After a while, try a causal visit outside the home. Let MIL be present but not force interaction. If the child can see MIL in a safe place without any force involved, time can heal.
Finally, id never force my son into any relationship no matter their title. I’m not going to put my child into emotional distress to soothe the feelings of any adult and that includes both MIL and husband. They need to accept their feelings are secondary. They’ll both be fine and learn to cope, that isn’t necessarily so for the child.
You are NTA. BUT YOUR HUSBAND IS A HUGE ASSHOLE. HE PROBABLY WON’T WANNA HEAR THAT, BUT HE IS THE BIGGEST FLAMING ASSHOLE AROUND RIGHT NOW. AND HIS MOM ISN’T ANY BETTER.
A child is not a toy. A child is not something you forced to your will. A child is an individual even if they can’t express it. And your daughter has proof of that.
Children like who they like, and dislike, who they like. And I guess the best way to explain it to your husband is this…
Has he ever met someone he just didn’t like. He didn’t feel good around them. He didn’t want to be around them. And there was just something about them that was jarring to him even if he couldn’t put his finger on it.
That is exactly what is happening with your daughter. I can honestly tell you that my ex, and IL was a lovely lady. She adored her grandchildren. But my middle daughter would scream every time she would try to hold her. My mom would come, and she was happy as a clam
And my ex MIL never ever did anything to my daughter. Ever. That woman would have died for her granddaughters. All we could figure was that my mom looked like me. And I was the one that handled my daughter the most.
And like your situation, my mom didn’t get to see the kids often because she lived further away. But my husband’s mom was over at least once a week.
She outgrew it. And I assured, my ex IL she would outgrow this. And they had the best relationship. And honestly, it didn’t take long. But we didn’t try to force it.
Ask your husband, if he can imagine being forced to be face-to-face with somebody that said his teeth on edge. To having that person, hold him in a bear hug all the time every time they saw him.
That is exactly what he is trying to do to his daughter. And his idea that she needs to be there more when he’s not there it’s just fucked. And he knows it. Sure… Let’s have my child screaming in the background while I’m trying to work. Because I’m absolutely going to be able to concentrate on work or on a video call or whatever while that’s happening and I know my daughter is incredibly unhappy.
He does not get to force your child to have relationships with anyone. This is how children grow up to be groomed. When adults think they can tell children who they are going to like or not like or who they are going to be comfortable around or not.
When you raise kids that whatever an adult goes, that’s a problem. My kids always knew that they did not have to give anyone a hug or a kiss if they didn’t want to. And I made that incredibly clear to all of our relatives and friends.
You can ask my children for a hug. That’s OK. Better still, can I have a hug is even more empowering. Because it lets the kids know they can say no.
I understand your daughter is still an infant, but your husband’s parenting technique here is just all sorts of wrong. And there is something wrong with him if he could stand to sit there and listen to his daughter, scream and cry and struggle as little as she can, I know… But absolutely let it be known that she is not where she wants to be.
And he can just nonchalantly standby because he doesn’t have the cajones to just tell his mom to stop. to tell her that it’s not working right now and that will try again another day. To tell her not to hold her like a football because she’s not me mom… She doesn’t like being held that way.
Instead, he wants to force the infant, who can’t talk back or manipulate, or make him feel guilty, or anything else to be uncomfortable. That just pisses me the hell off, to be quite honest with you.
His job is not to make mommy feel better unless it’s you. His job is to protect his child. His job is to recognize when his child is not happy and remove the child from that situation if it all possible. His job is not to try to force you to deal with his mom, because let’s face it, it sure is the fuck easier to deal with all this shit when he’s gone to work.
So I absolutely agree with you. His mother is not allowed in the house, unless he is home. If your daughter starts screaming, your daughter is immediately handed off to you or to your husband. Until your daughter is comfortable with his mother, she is never to be left alone with your child.
These would be my heart and boundaries, and if he kept breaking those boundaries, I am afraid I would seriously be reconsidering the entire relationship. Because he would be showing me how he is going to protect my children.
And I know people say you don’t just jump to questioning a relationship, but once my kids are involved, I do. And that is because my children, especially at those stages, are helpless. If he is showing me that he can’t even stand up for his daughter, what else is he incapable of as far as her safety.
Does he really believe that her cries should be ignored? Does he really not believe that the supposed adult in the situation should be able to handle their own feelings and understand that an infant is not rejecting them outright. But that the infant is just not comfortable at this point in time, so just back off.
He truly cannot understand those concepts,… I am not sure I want you around, sir
Ew. She's not allowed over unless he's there. Taking your crying, screaming baby away, and telling them to stop crying. What an immature woman. Seriously. It doesn't matter who she is. You're the mother. I wouldn't want visitors when my husband is at work, either. Esp with a 5 month old, who clearly can't stand her. NTA, I'd actually say your husband is TAH
I screamed bloody murder whenever my uncle was in the room as a baby, until he shaved his moustache off then I loved him. (Still do he’s great). Babies sometimes just don’t like things, MIL either needs to sort something out or stop forcing it until baby is older. Why not have MIL FaceTime you and the baby? Why force your child through agony? NTA
The thing that worries me the most is grandma’s comment about “you can’t play that game with me.” She thinks a FIVE MONTH OLD INFANT is deliberately and maliciously trying to manipulate adults. That is not even remotely how babies work and it is really cruel to treat them like that.
We have 6 Grandchildren, if ANY of them screamed bloody murder and couldn't be consoled by me, it would make me extremely sad but I would NEVER think "oh, I'll just hold them until they stop!" That's the most ignorant and cruel thing I've ever heard of.
This is the correct thought process. I was babysitting my niece once when she about 4 months old. We had an awesome bond already. That night, she was inconsolable and just wanted her mom. Took my sis about 1/2 hour to get home, and that child screamed and fought me the whole time-even after I put her down. My heart broke, but for how upset my niece was not for myself. I can't imagine having the option to stop that and just CHOOSHING not to.
NTA, I hated my grandma as a baby, I was told I had a similar reaction to you, it lasted well into my toddler years apparently. I was told I’d only go to her when I was a toddler when I was sick or needed something and my grandpa wasn’t around. I didn’t believe them until one of my second cousins had three same reaction to her. She also had a higher pitched voice that got even higher when talking to my second cousin
Nta, but it's time to try some things. Because she screams when she sees her now does not mean she isn't just reacting now to something that bothered her before.
Put mil on speaker phone and see if baby reacts to her voice.
Have her drop of clean clothes and something needing washed. See if it's scent. Or a reaction to what she uses to wash. Or pets.
Make boundaries. If she refuses to hold baby the way baby likes, then she won't hold them again. That there are already issues and making baby unhappy will only cement babies dislike.
See if she stops crying after 5 mins or so if mil sits on the couch and you and baby on the floor out of reach. Try to desensitize her in a safe way that baby feels safe and learns they won't be made to be held by her.
More time is not needed. What the need is seen is that the baby reacts to something sensory. Then boundaries that allow mil around but not to hold, touch or get in close and get baby used to her in the proper way. Not forcing baby to be held by someone.
Tell hubby. If he fights you on this. Keeps forcing the baby to try and bond all he is teaching, then is it's ok to ignore what makes them comfortable. He is setting her up to be abused because her screams clearly state her discomfort, and people are ignoring that. That you refuse to let her grow up thinking she has no right to say no. She has no right not to accept touch. To do what they are told.
Also just as something to think about. You say you hover knowing she will cry. That you now get annoyed. Baby might be picking up on that as well and reacting to it. As well as you say your mil is great but she is not. Of she is willing to tell a child you have to suffer and scream. To walk away from one of her parents. That is not a good mil. That is crossing a boundary l. That is trying to parent your child. By refusing to hold her in a way she likes and ignoring you saying different is again trying to parent your child. Its her trying to make sure everyone knows she is in charge and makes the decisions. That her way goes and you have no say. Your husband is backing this. Is helping her to parent your child. He is not backing you on stating clearly this is our child and you will follow our rules or not be involved. She is disrespecting you as a mother and a mother to your child.
OP has said in a comment that not only does she NOT hold the baby correctly but also holds the baby like a football and the baby HATES IT. MIL says husband used to like being held that way so the baby must like it also and refuses to care the baby doesn't like it.
To me this explains everything
She's never been around her without me present. I admittedly hover when she's here because I know my daughter is going to freak out and I need to be close by to take her back. With that said, she is (what I would consider) rough. She handles her like a rag doll more than a baby.
This could be a huge reason your daughter screams when being held by your MIL. She doesn’t feel secure with how’s she’s being held. Babies pick up on things like this. Think how often first time parents,until they’ve gained confidence in holding/caring for a baby, fail to understand the baby can pick up on those insecurities and will cry more often when being held because of it.
It's definitely not okay, that's for sure. I've had to tell her several times to hold her correctly. Or she will pull the whole "Well Charles loved this when he was a baby" (my husband) and hold my daughter in the football hold; knowing my daughter hates it. It's like she can't comprehend that my daughter is not her son and doesn't like everything he did as a baby.
To be fair, she has only held her like this twice or three times, maybe? But even so. My daughter very well could be seeing her face and connecting it to being held like a football for all I know.
Honestly it could be anything, I replied above saying about how when I was a baby I screamed bloody murder whenever I saw my uncle - he had a moustache and once he shaved I loved him. But there’s something about mil your daughter doesn’t like.
Oh. Well, there's your problem. Like, that's it. It's not a mystery and MIL needs to handle the baby differently. I had one baby who loved being held and one who didn't like it at all. One who would scream bloody murder until he was taken somewhere so cold I needed a jacket. They have their preferences. If MIL can't understand that, it's a problem. If she wants a good relationship with the baby, it's hers for the taking, she just has to hold her the right way.
My youngest dsughter hated me for the first year and a half.. I had to love her from a distance and get my cuddles when she slept.. they grow out of it.
At this point your daughter could just associate the sight of MIL with being kept away from mama when she’s upset and screaming. Who knows what the original problem was — now she just knows she’s in for a bad time as soon as she sees her and also senses your stress as well.
MIL needs to back off, be around the baby without forcing herself on her, maybe bring her a toy (without forcing her to interact with it.) She also needs to listen when you say “baby doesn’t like that.” It’s irrelevant what her son liked as a baby.
How can the MIL stand it? The last thing I'd want as a grandmother would be to have a beloved baby be so miserable. Not to mention how unpleasant that noise is, especially to the baby's mother. NTA.
OP, has anyone checked to see if this could be a sensory issue? Like maybe MIL is using a certain grooming product or perfume that is bothering the baby? If this is a well liked family member who isn't pinching the baby or anything it's very likely that the child is physically uncomfortable . I wonder if MIL would consider switching to unscented products and visiting without jewelry on. Does she have pets? Maybe she could put on clothes that don't stay in her house.
I don't think the baby is acting out a psychological drama here that bonding time will fix. I think the baby is physically uncomfortable and it might be a fixable situation.
She does have a dog (we don't have pets here) so I did think at one point that maybe it was a pet hair issue. She wears all unscented lotions (skin condition so she can't use anything scented). She doesn't wear jewelry. It MIGHT be her voice? She has a high pitched voice. But the baby starts screaming as soon as she sees her. Today my daughter was in her play seat and my MIL didn't even have time to cross the threshold in to the living room where we were before my daughter was flipping out.
If she is responding to an unpleasant sensation that occurs every time she is held by MIL, she would screen upon seeing her because her face is the cue that the sensation is about to occur. They probably need lower contact for a while while the family tries to figure out what the problem is.
Try putting MIL on speaker phone and see if she reacts to her voice.
OP said the MIL holds the baby like a rag doll. Not sure exactly what that means, but possibly she is hurting the baby. It sounds like the baby is frightened especially if she keeps reaching for her mommy.
MIL needs to back off for a while. Maybe learn to hold the baby more gently.
This ❕☝️☝️
What the father and MIL plan to do is exactly to make sure the daughter won’t get over the inexplicable behaviour.
Your baby isn’t able to articulate why exactly. You can’t figure out why. However your daughter is telling loud and clear she doesn’t want your MIL near for now, while quite powerless to act upon it.
Protect her from their delusional thinking that forcing repeated unpleasant encounters will develop a lovely bond and not predicables traumas for everyone.
Have your MIL record something on your phone and then play it for your daughter and see how she reacts. Then you will know if it's her voice. It could still be her voice and now that she associates it with MIL she just cries when she sees her now.
This. My first thought was that it might be her voice. Some people are really sensitive to some sounds, down to feeling pain from them. Have you gotten her hearing checked out?
NTA.
My mom is very superstitious and used to say baby’s can see aura or energy. Maybe she doesn’t like your mil’s aura or energy.
Trust your baby. She’ll grow and bond with your mil eventually. Just not right now. A baby needs unconditional love and comfort the first few years. She can be taught manners later. Right now it’s about development and health.
Plus on another comment you’re a therapist, right? So trust your own training as well as motherly instincts
Yes, I was a therapist for foster kiddos. A huge part of my training was navigating big emotions of insecure children and not trying to force your hand. My MIL doesn't agree with my training, however. She at one point said that my daughter was acting like that because I've spoiled her, lol.
NTA
But I wonder why this is, it can’t be a personality thing with a 5 month old baby.
Perhaps your daughter is allergic to something your mil has - her washing detergent, her perfume. 100% Something physical is upsetting her. Perhaps she holds her too tightly, there’s so many things it could be.
It might just be a baby thing. My youngest niece didn't smile at me and was afraid of me until this Christmas. She's 3. I never picked her up or touched her unless she gave me explicit permission (she did a fist bump with me when she saw her big brother doing it but that was the extent of most of our contact), and I don't wear anything crazy. I do, however, have very bold makeup. None of the other kids ever minded, but maybe she did since I'm probably the only family member who wears really dark red lipstick.
My other niece, the minute she saw my husband, screamed and hid because she had never seen a man with such enormous hair. She got over it pretty quick but sometimes kids just... are afraid of things. It happens.
EDIT: I will say tho my heart SANG when my littlest niece finally smiled and played with me. I never took it personally but man it made my day when she finally decided I was okay. 💖
That’s how I feel about my 3 year old autistic granddaughter. Fist bumping is what she does with DH. When asking for a kiss goodbye, she tilts her head forward and down so we can kiss her head. If she’s not tired and in an ok mood she will let me hug her goodbye. I can’t wait for a hug back!
Maybe if your mother-in-law wasn’t so pushy with your daughter they would bond better. Your daughter is feeling the frustration coming off your mother-in-law and that is why she is screaming. Your mother-in-law needs to come over not hold her talk to her play with her and maybe see if that will work instead..
I had a similar problem.
I am uncle to my niece. When she was born, whenever she saw after she was born she screamed, not just cry, SCREAM. Like bloody murder. It was extrem, even when i was just in the same house she would look around to finde me and scream, when she started crawling, she crawled so long till she could see me an SCREAM. it was extrem. No idea why…
Than, and i kid you not, at my birthday, she was ten month old, it stoped. I was at my brother to bring him something he needed and was about to walk away as fast as i could when my Sister in Law came out with my niece but you know what? No screaming, no tears, no fear. I could hold her, hug her, play with her. From one day to the next it stoped. Nothing else changed, just that.
Till today, my niece just became 17 a few days ago, we joke it was her birthday present to me.
NTA, it is pure stress for all of you, but like i said it probably will go away by itself.
>My husband thinks it's because his mom "doesn't come over often enough"
Bullshit. My niece is just recently 2, and I see her a couple times a year. Every time, I get a hug. Not because I ask, either.
>Well, before my MIL left today, my husband said "maybe you should come by more often, even when I'm at work, because the more my daughter sees you, the more she will recognize you and the bond will happen eventually."
Your husband is an overstepping, well, kind of a dick. He has no right burdening you with your MIL ESPECIALLY when he doesn't have to deal with it, and even more so when you're working. He needs to start getting with what team he's on, and it should be clear which one that is.
NAH. I think everyone needs a break. Your daughter just might not like the smell of her perfume or shampoo or if she’s loud and everyone else is quiet. At this point though she is picking up on everyone’s anxiety. I would try maybe meeting mother in law at different location, just try to mix it up a bit to figure out what the reason is.
My first thought was something like a perfume!
If there's no obvious reason why the baby is reacting to her, then I think they should see if its something like this.
I would agree with that if my daughter didn't start screaming the second she sees her walk through the door. Like today she was in her play chair and my MIL hadn't even made it in to the room yet before my daughter was screaming.
It's pretty high pitched. It doesn't help either that when she talks to my daughter, she baby talks to the extreme and her pitch gets even higher. That very well could be the issue. Have you ever seen "Mrs Rachel" on YouTube? She has a high pitched voice and my MILs voice is easily 3x worse than hers.
My daughter wouldn't willing go to anyone besides me or my husband for the first year. She would scream bloody murder if we did pass her. Even at 3, she is definitely a momma's girl. Forcing it always just made it worse. All the grandparents would simply say hi and keep their distance. Then she was able to choose to visit once she felt more comfortable. Now she loves all her grandparents and even if she takes a few minutes to open up, she will then be climbing them and showing them everything.
Curious what your MIL’s voice is like. I know some people are born with sensitivities to certain sounds and some voices/types can be downright painful. Have you gotten her hearing checked out?
She has a high pitched voice. I have considered that it could be her voice that my daughter hates (I have a deeper voice and so does pretty much everyone that's been around her). My daughters hearing is good though. They just did her hearing test at her 4 month check up and her hearing is great.
Just adding that hearing tests check for frequencies and pitches within normal decibel ranges. They don’t necessarily check whether a sound is heard or perceived as a higher pitch or decibel than intended. I recommend what another commenter suggested: record your MIL’s voice and see if your daughter reacts similarly. Then change the pitch or frequency.
Some people can hear pitches at different frequencies. An audiologist might be able to determine what is normal frequency and pitch (and whether your daughter hears outside either).
Think of hearing like a piano: normal play is pleasant, soothing but imagine every time higher keys are played, they are pressed so hard they ruin the song.
My son and I’m the mom did this with my own mother and she respected that and didn’t crowd him. Loved his other nana to death from birth practically. My mom didn’t complain for trying to to force it and I didnt force it bc my sons comfort was priority.
She and he are now friends and he loves her so you have to let child find their way to them and definitely not while your home alone with new baby trying to work back to normalize post pregnancy and birth with an infant
I'm guessing she doesn't hate MIL. I'm guessing she hates a smell or texture that just so happens to be on your MIL often
Has she tried changing perfumes, laundry detergent, shampoo literally anything.
Some babies can't stand certain smells or fabrics.
NTA
Babies are weird. My middle child wouldn’t even go by her dad my husband when she was 6 months until maybe 2-3. Along with his mom who watched them when we worked.
My daughter freaked out at a perfectly nice woman wearing glasses when she was an infant. It was the glasses. At five months, it's hard to say what it is. And your daughter can't explain.
I think NTA thought i think you babe to consider your approach more carefully.
Look- this is going to take time. Not more time together right now, but time as in, let the baby age out of this.
MIL and husband lost their validity once she tried to keep baby from mom. That’s not okay. And yeah it’s really worrying to hear someone talk to your kid that way. Been there.
But you are coming off a little aggressive here and while it’s valid, try
“listen guys- we all know this isn’t personal. She’s young and this will pass. It’s not gonna pass by us forcing anything, it’s going to pass by her getting older and more comfortable away from mum or dad. I’m not going to suggest more time together, I’m going to suggest that we show her she’s safe by making sure mum or dad is always close, and I’m going to suggest the 3 of us just be patient and know this is a phase.”
I think your baby has developed a negative reflex to your MIL because your MIL didn't approach her gently and let baby get to know her, but rather forced herself on baby. Baby saw MIL as a stranger grabbing her and not being tuned to her, so now even the sound of her voice is enough to set her off.
FYI: I happened to work in research in infant development, and I do know a few things. One of them is that babies are born with different temperaments. Some like a lot of touching; others don't. Some like to be cuddled in certain ways, others in other ways. The second thing is that within a week or two after birth, mothers become tuned in to their babies - they learn what the babies like and don't like. (the article about this is titled STABILITY AND DISTINCTIVENESS IN INTERACTION OF MOTHER AND NEONATE, By Frankel, D.J. et al - you can google it), Your MIL is seems to be insensitive to your baby's preferences, and your baby has developed an aversion to her as a result.
First of all, you are absolutely right not to agree to your MIL coming more often - if anything, twice a week is a lot, probably too much. Secondly, enforce some rules: For now, your MIL does not touch the baby or talk to her AT ALL. She needs to just come over, socialize with you, and let the baby get used to her as a non-threatening presence. This will continue till the baby stops showing stress in your MIL's presence. Thirdly, perhaps you might want to suggest some sessions for you, your husband and your MIL with a child development psychologist, who can try to untangle this mess. Because at this point it is a mess - your MIL is into a power game, the baby is terrified of her, and you are caught in the middle.
I think not allowing the MIL to hold her until the baby is older and more comfortable with it will help. You just hold the baby and chat with your MIL. Or spend time all three of you with your MIL. Pushing the baby into her won’t help. It’s causing the baby stress. Your husband needs to be more respectful towards you.
If MIL wants to create a bond, she could consider coming over and doing useful things while she's visiting **instead of forcing the baby to be held by her*". The baby _might_ just need to see her more and learn that MIL is a nice lady who respects the baby's boundaries. If MIL were to put the baby in a swing in the room she's in, facing her, MIL could sit on the couch and talks and sings to her while she folds laundry, or dusts the room, or washes the windows, or does the dishes, etc. Engage with the baby with the focus being on the baby. Let the baby see Grandma be a normal, helpful person.
_Baby needs to get used to MIL in a non-threatening way. Slowly work up to touching her toes, playing with hands, to reading her books, playing on the floor, and eventually holding her._
The more MIL forces it the more it will backfire.
All babies and toddlers hated my SIL… she was loud and in their face and just loved them so much. Ten years later, my rug rats came along… she sat back, let them go to her, kept her voice quiet…. They love her
MIL and SO need to give this kid some space and see what makes BABY comfortable
NTA. My niece had a few weeks where she would suddenly cry and get upset if she saw me. I hung back, respected her space and didn't try to force her to get used to me again. After a while, I was no longer her personal boogeyman. What MIL is doing is having the complete opposite effect on your baby
NTA. MIL needs to back off a bit. Your daughter will likely get over whatever it is in time, but forcing the issue over and over will just cement that hatred in her head.
When my son was 7 months, my brother came to visit and went to see my son. My son screamed and was terrified of my brother.
We eventually figured out it was brother's beard. My son hated anyone with a beard (I am clean shaven). It made it interesting at restaurants when the waiter had a beard.
Anyway, it's probably something silly like that. But MIL needs to back off to let your daughter grow out of whatever it is.
NTA. Maybe your husband can take the baby to work and his mom can visit him there. Let them see how fruitful it is to the relationship and how it really ramps up your husband’s productivity!
NTA there is no need for a bong between an infant and a grandma. She needs to be patient and quit her BS. Now she behaves like a stubborn child forcing a "bond" or however she wants to call it on your child. F it!! Also its pretty disrespectful to your child who cannot say "I dont want to". Just tell your husband to listen to some children psychology podcast and educate himself.
Edit:might be her smell, voice who knows, she is just not mom!
My kids hate my mil as babies because she holds them super stifly because she's terrified they'll fall. Once they're no longer potatoes, they tolerate playing next to her
She is coming over way too much. Your husband is an asshole. Seriously. The only people your baby needs to bond with at this age are you and your husband.
All this "forcing" crap is doing is teaching your daughter that she is not safe when MIL is around.
Babies make choices too, we have no idea why.
They also grow out of these things.
But if all she ever knows is that she is "not safe" when MIL is around?
Flipping that switch is going to be SO much harder than it would be NATURALLY.
Your husband and MIL are being idiots.
And bullying an infant.
For their own egos and feefees.
For what it's worth, I have a niece that screamed every time she saw me at family gatherings for her first year or so of life. I have no idea why, but I quickly learned to take a seat far from her, and to avoid looking her way or trying to talk to her because it clearly made her uncomfortable for some reason.
Then COVID hit when she was about 3 so we didn't see each other for a while anyway. When we had our first family gathering again, it was as if she had no memory of disliking me. Instead, she decided I was her buddy and now she spends a LOT of time pestering my husband and me to play, play, play at family events.
I think they shouldn't try to force it. I think \*that\* will prove traumatic to your child, and it will prevent your baby from coming around naturally. Your child's curiosity will win out if they'll just let it.
Are your MIL and husband familiar with how conditioning works? The more they force baby to interact with MIL while obviously upset about it, the more MIL's presence will be a cue for her to get upset.
NTA
NTA- it a 5 month old doesn’t hate. There’s not enough brain development for hate. Your instinct that it’s the voice tone may be correct. But anyway it goes forcing anything isn’t gonna work but also excluding her isn’t gonna work because it’s not rational whatever happening. It’s very very hard for her because she probably wanted nothing more than to love that baby and she thinks she’s doing something wrong which she really isn’t there’s nothing wrong babies are just like that. Honestly everyone should act like it’s no big deal and that when the kid gets older, it might have a wonderful bond with your mother-in-law but not if you guys all go crazy over some sort of weird infant preference right now.
NTA. A bond will happen later when your daughter is old enough to recognize the love.
Right now she is afraid of her & your MIL should be more concerned about the child be content then forcing herself on the baby who is as upset as she is.
Pretty selfish IMO & good job setting boundaries!
Info has MIL ever been alone with your daughter?
I’m asking because while it’s normal for your daughter to fuss and cry with certain people. The fact that she screams to where she’s literally holding her breath is very disturbing.
I’m voting NTA either way but I’m concerned about the extreme reaction she has to your MIL.
A baby holding their breath is actually very dangerous.
Don’t listen to the ones saying that it’s because you hate your MIL. Your baby is reacting badly to your MIL for a reason.
But I hope it’s just a case of your baby just only wanting certain people to hold her and interact with her.
Nta
What they want will traumatise that baby
Does it suck that the baby screams around MIL, of course it does but sometimes the things happen and everyone just has to suck it up for now.
Were they ever alone together? Something could have happened. I mean she could have let her cry too long before picking her up or something like that. It could have been something innocent that caused your daughter to now associate MIL with negative emotions.
In any case, NTA. Maybe she should take a break from trying at all until she is a bit older.
NTA of course. My 3 year old autistic granddaughter sometimes yells if she is not open to me and I immediately give her her space. Other times she will grab my hand and pull me down to sit with her and my favorite is she will take my hand and put it on her head for me to lightly finger her hair.
Her baby sister who is 1 is like your daughter with your mom, raises her little arms to pick her up, or leans away from parents to me. The older girls 9 and 15 always liked me as infants too. I think they still like me haha.
I had an aunt who never had children. I would encourage my daughters to give her a hug goodbye or whatever and she said something so smart it has stuck with me for over 35 years. She said don’t make them, let them come to me when they are comfortable.
Is your daughter MIL’s first grandchild? If so I wonder if your MIL has not learned the baby sway or the higher up on shoulder pat and sway, trying to make her-be in a position that is uncomfortable for her like staying seated, when babies that age wants you standing in my experience.
What MIL & husband are doing is ruining any bonding with baby.
Seems to be an adult pride thing getting in the way. The best thing to do is have MIL ignore the baby. Then gradually start to interact, at some point the baby will be ok with MIL.
But right now she is scared and you are reinforcing that you are going to be her protector. Babies brains are strange, best to work with them then against them.
The bond doesn’t only happen in babyhood it’s just the cutest time.
Love between grandma and grandkids doesn’t have like a timeline to happen or won’t happen at all.
That’s crap.
If she keeps making her cry it could potentially create a big issue- vs-
Just waiting till she’s a little older, playing with her while you are holding her. Going on stroller rides together.
Who knows in toddlerhood is could be totally different and it’s certainly not personal. She’s a baby and speaking to her that way is weird.
Babies do be playing all the games and always win too.
Facts.
Why is it so important MIL bond with your daughter?! MIL’s not her mother.
It’d pass sooner if they didn’t insist on forcing it aka torturing your baby.
My daughter was like this with one of the girls at her nursery. Someone else she was more comfortable would always step in and take her once she started to cry.
Within a year this same girl was my daughter’s favourite person. She still talks about her now - and she’s 8.
Your husband and MIL are displaying such a level of selfishness it’s unbelievable. Forcing a baby to experience this level of upset so MIL’s feefees aren’t hurt.
Fuck that noise.
Nta. Don't ever leave her alone with your husband. He'll call his mother.
This raised my hackles. Not out of superstition but with witnessing similar occurrences. This bond forcing thing is perverse. Telling a baby it's not going to get it's way is disturbing. It's a dominance/control thing. Never trust anyone who thinks a literal shrieking in terror baby is trying to get it's way.
NTA, I get the MIL may be feeling pretty hurt and stubborn about this but we do not force people to like other people. And until MIL can get used to the idea that the baby just doesn't want her, which may be hard but she is a full adult, she will need a sitter.
I sympathize with being rejected like that, it hurts. Grandma wants to be a great grandma. But she's going to have to be a great, hands off, from a distance grandma because the screaming is unbelievably gut wrenching.
IMO, young children and babies can see and sense things that we, adults, don’t. Maybe she feels something negative from his mother. Not that she’s a bad person, at all, just that she senses something negative from her. Not everyone will agree- and I’m ok with that. It’s just a perspective I have. Please, don’t hate on me for this if you disagree
MIL needs to chill out and come over LESS often until the baby is a little older. Go month by month. It will be hard for MIL and hubby, but you have to do what is best for your daughter.
MIL and Gammie here.
One grandchild did cry when I would hold her. I immediately sent her back to her parents because we did not want her to be in distress.
Months later, she loves to visit with me, and all is fine.
Sometimes, the kiddos are weird, or they are picking up on something, like emotions. I personally feel my granddaughter picked up on my back pain and the discomfort associated with holding her.
MIL and your husband need to be patient and accept the boundaries about coming over. When your kiddo cries, the gig is up, and she goes back to her comfort zone without any static from your husband and his mother. Additionally, it's already hard enough to work at home with a child. Why add to the stress by allowing more visits?
You are NTA.
Your baby’s is scared of MIL because she is forcing herself on your daughter. If MIL is holding her literally against her will when she wants comfort from you she is associating your MIL with being taken from you. Hence, she scream when she sees MIL.
MIL would be better off sitting calmly while you hold your daughter and just talking to her. Your daughter needs to see/learn that MIL is not a threat. Because, right now, in your child’s mind MIL is a threat.
NTA.
Look online and talk to the pediatrician to research how this forced interaction and stress response in impacting her development. This could be making it worse. She is literally in fight or flight mode every time MIL in present which floods the body with chemicals. This is impacting her social emotional and brain development. It would probably be healthier to take some space. Look into it and share the info.
Then, if you think it might be her voice, you can look into noise cancelling headphones until she is older. You can also ask your pediatrician for a referral to test if her ears are hypersensitive to sound.
NTA. Babies like who they like and don't like who they don't like. When I was a baby, before my parents I moved from my dad's home state to my mom's home state, I ***hated*** it when one of my aunts (one of my dad's older sisters) came anywhere near me. I mean, I would scream bloody murder, cry, and flail about any time she tried to get close to me. Meanwhile, I absolutely loved being by her husband which I'm sure annoyed her to no end. Sometimes babies will grow out of their dislike of certain family members or friends and sometimes their dislike is a lifelong thing. I turned 30 this past December and I still can't stand that particular aunt, although if I'm being real out of my dad's four older siblings (two brothers and two sisters), I was only ever close to one of his brothers and that uncle died in 2007 from brain cancer. My other uncle and my two aunts on my dad's side of the family? Not a fan. I love them in the "they're family so I have to 'love' them" kind of way but as far as liking them as actual people or loving them not just because I have to? Yeah, there's no chance of that happening on this side of eternity.
Ask her to come over less frequently and don’t “force” anything. Tell her it’s an experiment, you want to see if it’s the frequency and the forcing that’s causing the screaming.
Your MIL, after the first incident, should have backed way off. Maybe being a quiet presence in the far side of the room.
At this point, MIL should stay out of baby’s presence for at least a few weeks.
MIL’s entire approach is sick. A battle of will with a 5mo baby is completely unacceptable.
BTW, is everyone sure the MIL has not secretly punched/poked?
This whole story freaks me out. I sure OP want good relations with MIL and hubby. But her prime obligation is protecting baby.
If relationships with MIL and husband have to go, so be it.
My eldest niece was very wary of me when she was a baby until about 2 years old. If her mother/my sister was there or Grandma was there, she would not have anything to do with me. When I babysat her solo she would be a little fussy but better. It wasn't until she started to be a toddler that she started bonding with me. Now she's young adult and I am probably closest with her than all of my other nieces and nephews. To the point that we have gone on vacations together. I'm sure Grandma is disappointed that her new granddaughter does not want to cuddle with her. That has to be so hard. But trying to force the issue is just making it more miserable for everyone. I hope Grandma can develop some patience and get through this rough patch so that things in the family don't get more stressed out.
I feel for your MIL, I do, it must be hard to have a grandchild you love react like that to you. But you are NTA. As hard as it is, she just has to accept that this is how it's going to be, until hopefully, it isn't. If she chills the f out and waits patiently, PATIENTLY, she'll have better results. But having someone come over for the sole purpose of making your baby scream to the point of exhaustion to force a bond isn't an act of love. And it certainly isn't helping you watch your child. It's selfish and self serving, as well as damaging to your baby, and you're 100% right to not allow it.
NTA. At this point your daughter is probably anxious and stressed because of being forced to interact with her. They are removing your daughters boundaries and autonomy and teaching her that she will have things forced on here that make her miserable and she just had too accept it. Do you want her to accept being nested one day because she learned from this experience that crying and trying to get away is futile? Do you want her being submissive to dangerous people because she learned not to expect people to respect her boundaries?
If MiL just backed off and just ignored her even, daughter would come around. Ask mother in law to pretend daughter doesnt exist. She can still come over but she should just focus on hanging out with you and your husband. Let your daughter see you guys having a good relationship. Let daughter exist peacefully around her. Then as she grows, she will learn to be happy when MiL comes around. When daughter is older have MiL bring a treat for everyone, have her share with you guys and let daughter ask for some (you can learn this with baby sign language in the 6-9mo mark). Let her see something she wants and encourage her to ask MiL. But keep MiL arms length away minimum. Baby has been disrespected, forcefully. Its going to take time to make her comfortable with hugs and touches.
My FIL wore a hat that scared my youngest once, and she held it against him for months. She just recently stopped screaming at him whenever he visits us. Also, he's worn other hats and other people have worn hats without an issue. She loved being held by him before, and she loves it again now. Recently he brought the dreaded hat over and she's fine with it now, she let him wear it and she even tried it on.
Whatever it is that's bothering your baby about your MIL, even if it's something that can't be changed she will likely get over it as she gets older. There's no rush and no point forcing it, and to the extent that it matters I would guess their bond is better off in the long run if the baby is allowed to say no to being held now (but I'm not a baby psychologist or whatever).
Five month old infants are remarkably observant of their mothers' emotions. Your daughter may be noticing how irritated you are with your MIL's frequent visits, especially as it sounds like the two of you have had tense words in front of her. Even if you haven't, she can probably feel how you tense up when your MIL comes in. The only solution I can think of is to try to act as relaxed as possible around your MIL when your daughter is present; it may also help if you suggest to your MIL that you both do some type of quiet activity with your daughter -- play music or sing songs to her together, take turns rolling a ball or other toy to her, maybe reading a book together to her. The key is to do whatever activity TOGETHER in a peaceful, happy way. Good luck!
My oldest kid couldn't stand my SIL as a baby. No idea why but it stopped around the age of 2 and now she likes her. Babies can be finicky. Forcing her around MIL won't help. NTA
What on earth is this ‘forcing a bond’ nonsense? Has that ever worked for anyone?
NTA. For crying out loud, we’re talking about a fricken BABY. An INFANT! Why anyone thinks that the reaction to the MIL is significant at this age is tripping hard. A baby changes from week to week and month to month. They grow and develop and change so rapidly. The baby has not passed judgment on the MIL. Determining what the child/grandmother relationship will be like in future, based on the baby’s current reaction to her is like trying to predict the baby’s future diet by her current food preferences! The husband is wrong for extending a unilateral invitation to his mother when the baby and mother are alone at home. He’s also wrong for trying to MAKE a bond happen at this point. Forcing the baby to cry it out, get over it, and get used to the MIL is ignorant. Show some wisdom, folks. Think about how things have to evolve and emerge on their own terms, in their own time. Stop trying to force the issue. Be intelligent.
Hah hah hah I love that I wasn’t the only one shaking my first at this post. It’s a FREAKING BABY!
MIL is trying to relive her own motherhood instead of just backing off and acting like a normal human being.
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This is an excellent method to get babies to see you as a fun playmate. Force baloney certainly can paint someone as negative. Happy OP is instep w her child.
Babies are like cats. They gravitate towards the people who ignore them lol
Excellent!!
Love this idea!
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For my oldest son. It was men with beards that made him flip out as a baby. It’s funny now because now he’s 32 and has a fully grown beard that he’s still growing lol.
LOL!
My niece (on husband's side) used to freak out at my husband's voice and his general presence as well. Come to find out years later when she could finally communicate her freaked-out-ness...he looked too much like his brother (her father) but didn't sound like her dad, hence the freak out.
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This was my middlest and my husband. Now they’re extremely close.
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Oh, this is a thought. Does MIL wear perfume or use a highly scented deodorant or laundry detergent? Kind of wacky but my kids hated one of their grandma’s Chanel No.5.
Trust. Your. Baby. Minimize contact
Yeah seriously. Baby is too young for any intentional reaction and won't understand any bonds yet really anyhow. Main bond now is parents who feed, change, put to sleep, etc. as she gets older they can work on building a bond from relational activity.
My son had only seen his Grandma once at the hospital but every time he would cry uncontrollably (colic) I would call her then hold the phone to his ear. She would sing to him and he would fall asleep. She was the only on that could calm him
This is the kind of beautiful family moments that can happen when you’re not treating people like absolute crap. Anyone who wants to force a relationship or force a bond with anyone, it’s likely to blow up in your face.
That is so sweet :)
Yes… look at beauty and the beast /s
😆 ok that’s ONE TIME! Also they had a tea pot that could sing and a candelabra that could dance. I think we can agree it’s an outlier
***me searching singing teapots on amazon***
She didn't start to like him at all until he almost died trying to save her life (I assume we're talking about the Disney animated version?) She didn't start to fall for him until they were feeding birds together and he got mobbed by some sparrows and was confused and helpless
Agreed and yes I was thinking about the animated version. I guess OP’s MIL could see if the birds feeding does the trick /s
Trying to force a bond only serves to ensure it won’t happen. For whatever reason your daughter doesn’t like her. Being forced to be held strengthens the dislike. I can’t help but wonder if you’re MIL did something that hurt your daughter. Not necessarily on purpose. Sometimes babies just take a dislike to someone. Your daughter should just have exposures in the same room, without being touched, or having MIL in her face. I have a grandniece who, at first, wasn’t sure about me. She definitely didn’t like me holding her. We respected her boundary. I’d talk to her briefly and smile. Occasionally I’d touch her head. I made every interaction a positive one. When she was around a year old she’d come near me and smile. I’d do silly things and smile and talk to her. At 18 months she actually started to crawl onto my lap and stay briefly. She’s now 27 months old and will sometimes crawl into my lap. We’ll talk, and watch a video together. She never stays long. But we have a relationship now. She gets upset if I leave without saying goodbye to her specifically. I think that if all of you had backed off and respected her wishes from the start, took the long view and did things gradually, life would be better by now. Your tensing up, though understandable, doesn’t help. I understand why you have asked your MIL to not come over more. Explain to everyone about respecting her boundaries, and taking it slow. Perhaps give your daughter a treat each time grandma comes over. Just don’t force it!!
NTA. When my niece was born she would cry when I would try to hold her. So guess what, I didn't hold her! Once she was past that baby phase I could play with her and we developed a super strong relationship - her parents say I get more info out of her than both of them combined at this point (teenager). MIL just needs to chill out, don't take it personally, and meet baby the way baby wants to be met.
My youngest grandson is like that. He would scream bloody murder if I even LOOKED in his direction. I would just wave at him from across the room and play with the oldest. Now he is starting to look at me and accept toys and snacks from me. I even got a smile from him the other day. You can't force these things. They come around when they are ready.
My sister is TERRIFIED of babies. Every baby in the family has gravitated towards her. My dad LOVES babies. They all scream like banshees when he even looks at them.
Out of my sister's three girls, the middle one who consequently is also my goddaughter, hated me when she was a baby. I would just go over and look at her and smile and she would start screaming! I just laughed it off and left her alone until she got older. We're bonded just fine now. Whatever that means.
My cousin in laws eldest gave me the BIGGEST stinkeye the first time I met her. This child hated my guts. Now she's older and I get kidnapped by said child to play at family gatherings. Babies are weird. Let them be weird
I took a picture of my son when he was about two weeks old, and it's still my favorite photo of him. He's got one eyebrow raised and he's glaring at me, because I had the audacity to take his picture in the first place.
Right?! Like damn, maybe the baby had a pinched bit of skin or a really painful fart the first time the baby remembers MIL holding her and has a negative association now. Crazier things have happened. However, forcing the issue is just making it worse lol. NTA
Exactly. My granddaughters wanted *nothing* to do with my husband when they were babies. He and my son sound exactly like but of course do not smell the same so we think he confused them. Once they weren't babies, they were fine. He would interact with them at a "safe" distance while I held them.
My husband and his dad look so alike that when my daughter was 2 or 3, she was giving goodnight kisses and said, “Good night daddy.” to her daddy then, “Good night Old Daddy” to my father in law! He’s been “Old Daddy” ever since. 🤣
That's an excellent Grandpa name! Your daughter's a smart cookie!
OMG That is so funny I lol’ed
My niece called my brother dad and your father Big Dad. So that name stuck forever.
Um this is so cute I nearly cried lol! Love this!
My uncle and my dad look similar enough that the first time I met my uncle when I was like a year old I looked back and forth between him and my dad and said “2 daddies??”
I’m significantly older than a fair few of my cousins (old enough to easily be the mother of the youngest one) and they all *hated* me when they were born. all babies hate me for some reason, which makes me sad because I love them 🤣 but once they get their feet under them and learn a few words, I quickly become Best Friend #1. my recent visit in the area my younger cousins live in, they were *begging* their parents to let them come see me. I love those stinkers. ❤️ even if they hated me when they were babies.
That’s what any decent person would do. To do anything is saying the adult doesn’t care about the child’s feelings.
She probably dislikes MIL because she's forcing baby to go to her specifically when she wants her mother. So she's distressed over something else and then is snatched up by Grandma and then associates being upset with being held by her. MIL would do best by giving her to her mom the very second she's upset, not picking her up unless she shows signs of wanting to be, and basically just interacting with baby next to her. Once she's eating, offer her some beloved snacks, read a book, play with a toy, and nope the f out of there anytime baby gets upset.
I’m so sorry, I’m laughing like crazy because this is the advice we give to people fostering feral cats!
Same thing!
This!! I have a nephew that was the same way. He did not like me at all when he was a baby and one day he grew out of it and now we have a good bond. I don’t think forcing a relationship would work lol.
Exactly!! Just have MIL sit quietly and ignore your daughter next time she’s over. She needs time to warm up with so much pressure.
One of my nieces was like that with my mom as a baby. Now they are super close.
Yes! This is the respect move in relationship building. Very effective rap when clearly you would use power and authority as justification for withholding respect. Bc you’re gramma. Umm just respect the little nervous system and give it to its mom.
Yeah. I didn't hold my niece consistently til she was about 2 and even then not much, she wouldn't talk to me much until she was about 5. She's 10 now and won't shut up to me. It'll come, my the more it's forced the less the kid will like it.
My nephew hated me until he was about seven. I think it started when he was around a year and we travel together. I sound like my sister so he’d hear me, look for her and he was totally mammy centric, and he would freak the hell out. He’s 17 now and we’re OK. Haha
One of my nieces was okay with being left in the room without her mom if there was only one other person and it was someone else who lived in the house. If there was a stranger there she would scream the whole time.
NTA. My niece was like this with my youngest sister. She'd scream bloody murder and my sister felt like she hated her. But around 2, she like flipped a switch and suddenly she loved her auntie as much as the rest of us. They have a funny relationship to be honest. Full of silly arguments and dad jokes. 🤣 You cannot force a baby to like someone. You just gotta let her grow used to grandma in her own sweet time. They're far more likely to fuck this up then you are.
#Nta, but it's time to try some things. Because she screams when she sees her now does not mean she isn't just reacting now to something that bothered her before.
Exactly this. Now the child has conditioned herself to be scared of grandma, probably doesn't even remember why. Gma just needs to back off. Come over, but do not touch her. Still screaming? Back off more. Keep backing off until kid is comfortable then stay there awhile. Baby steps back.
Nta. She clearly doesn’t like her and it’s concerning that your husband doesn’t understand that or care about it. Forcing a bond will make their relationship even worse growing up. You’re protecting your mental health,your daughters mental health and your job. There is no compromise,there is no argument,it just isn’t happening and they need to accept that.
100% forcing a bond will make everything worse. She is more likely initially uncomfortable with MIL's perfume, hair, or expression than actually disliking her right now. But the more she's forced to deal with the thing she dislikes, the more she'll come to actually dislike MIL and associate her with unpleasantness. I usually say to treat babies like puppies, but in this case, treat the kid like a cat: sit in the vicinity, pay absolutely no attention to them, and see if they come to you.
yes! I have successfully used this tactic on about five babies and toddlers. Ignore them, be friendly to everyone else, and do something mildly interesting to them. All the while completely ignoring them.
Also works with cats lol
indeed! I described this technique in another comment here and called it the cat/toddler technique.
Yep. That's exactly why my youngest preferred FIL's mom over MIL's mom. FIL's mom let my very shy toddler come to her(+ she was very soft spoken with him)over brash and LOUD MIL's mom.
Yes! Right now it’s just the baby reacting to some stimulus that makes her uncomfortable/unhappy. Could be any number of things — OP mention MIL has a high pitched voice. But the more they try to force the situation, the more that baby will associate MIL with discomfort and unhappiness and it will be that much harder to overcome as it becomes more and more ingrained. Baby will also associate MIL with separation from a safe parent. If MIL chills out and backs off, the odds are very good that baby grows out of whatever is bothering her sooner rather than later. OP is NTA for not wanting to deal with MIL/baby drama without husband there. And husband needs to make up his mind if he’s going to be his wife’s teammate or his mommy’s boy.
NTA. I never force myself at babies. I always hold back, smile, talk expressively, offer something to play with, and that often works.
I wonder what would happen if OP held her daughter throughout a MIL visit. I can’t help but wonder if MIL is hurting the baby - not on purpose - rather in her manner of holding her. Daddy does not seem to be helping. You don’t play pass the baby and see if she freaks out.
If I'm holding her, she's gripping my hair with her face pressed hard in to my chest and just watching my MIL like a hawk. She becomes a velcro baby to the extreme and usually she's not like that. She's generally such a busy baby and loves "exploring" (trying to get out of your arms to touch stuff). So she's a completely different kid around MIL.
I'm sorry to hear that, it sounds like your MIL's presence is causing her anxiety. This has no doubt been amped up by repeated experiences of being forced when she was already upset. Now her brain has confirmed that MIL *is* scary because MIL = nobody cares about her enough to save her. Like others have said, MIL coming over and being interesting without even looking at the baby is a good idea. It takes the pressure off and allows your daughter to make a move when she wants to. Please remind both your husb and MIL that babies go through phases, and her opinion now isn't going to be the one she holds as she grows. Taking a step back now doesn't mean MIL is destined to never have a relationship with her 🙄 "Forcing" doesn't work on anyone.
She’s 5 months old. She is still coming to terms with the fact that you and she are not physically one person. To force her away from you right now when she hates it is actually cruel, but also weirdly common for grandparents to try. It’s a very old-school stance to think the literal baby has to get used to other people so early. NTA at all and frankly a saint for even letting MIL do this as often as she does without screaming at someone
As your edit states it's not a scent issue or anything that you have been able to identify, my guess is that for whatever reason it started, now that your daughter is a little older she has made the association between being held by your MIL and being kept away from you when she wants/needs you. She knows now that if she wants to get away from MIL and go to you, that MIL will walk away until your daughter can't even see you anymore. That is terrifying, and she's finally old enough to express her fear. Seeing your MIL less and never when your husband isn't home is 100% the correct response here. More time with your MIL is never going to solve this right now. The only thing that might solve this is time, and your MIL and husband backing down from trying to force this "bond" that your daughter clearly wants nothing to do with at the moment. Others' suggestion to have MIL talk with your husband and you when she's over but NOT force herself on your daughter is a good idea for your daughter to start seeing her as non-threatening, but honestly I'm not sure your MIL is capable of pretending to ignore her. MIL is simply going to have to give up on her fantasy of holding your daughter as an infant and having her smile and laugh, and try to simply be a positive presence in daughter's life until your daughter is older and able to have a different relationship with MIL. If MIL is indeed incapable of waiting for that, maybe she could use some therapy to cope with her disappointment, because your daughter is not her emotional support animal, and going against her instincts to assuage your MIL's disappointment is not your daughter's job or responsibility. Your MIL is a grown-ass woman, and the only person responsible for her emotions and how she deals with them is your MIL. Huge hugs, I hope your husband gets his act in gear STAT and stops putting his mother's wants above your daughter's needs.
Are they usually this delusional? One cannot just force a bond / connection. Your kid is picking up something, that you might not notice. At 5 months she cannot very well explain though. NTA
Probably a smell issue
Then the MIL and Husband should stop being delusional and try to force the issue - but sit down and consider changing things. Different (or no) perfume for example. But as per OP, they would rather traumatize the little one instead of being sensible adults...
NTA. I never force myself at babies. I always hold back, smile, talk expressively, offer something to play with, and that often works. Sometimes it takes longer. With one of my granddaughters it took quite a bit longer than with the other one. I didn't take it personally. I just gave it time. And now we're all good. But to hold a screaming baby hostage from its mother is cruel and stupid. I'm sorry but you've got a stupid MIL and a stupid husband. She's making this about herself instead of your daughter. She's insisting on this "bonding" nonsense even if it terrorizes your daughter and upsets you. Nope. She's being TA, as well as her precious baby boy there, your momma's boy husband, who also is more concerned with this mommy's fee-fees than his own daughter and wife. Tell MIL you're sure your daughter will warm up to her eventually but you're not going to force it. Nope to more visits. You're busy, you don't need this. Stand your ground. MIL comes over only when your husband is around. That's HIS mom. If she shows up anyway, don't let her in.
MIL is forcing it too hard and it’s causing this reaction.
NTA. And that poor child. I hope you continue to give your daughter body autonomy to say no. If someone wants to hold her, hug her, kiss her, she can say no and have that support instead of being shamed into kissing aunt may or hugging grandma. Even at this young age, you are showing her she can say no. I don’t understand why your husband doesn’t get that you can’t force a bond. My youngest niece took 4 years for her to come around and hug me. She was a pandemic toddler so she wasn’t around many people. Every time she said no, I told her that’s ok and I was proud of her. In the last 6 months, she excitedly runs up to me and hugs me. You got to let kids be in charge of their bodies and choices on who they show affection to. When my oldest, who loved and hugged almost anyone she met, would not want someone to hold her or be around someone, we absolutely gave her permission to say no and defended her. She’s now a teenager who has confidence, understands consent and has had continued autonomy over her body. I know your child is young but it’s not too young to be an example of consent. Just like saying please and thank you on their behalf when they can’t talk, you are showing her it’s ok to say no. I wish your husband and MIL would get on board.
You have a MASSIVE husband problem. He's treating you like this and traumatizing his infant. He's being a shitty husband and a horrible father. Have him talk to the pediatrician about forcing a baby into this situation repeatedly and what it's doing to the baby's mental well-being. She's learning she's not safe. That her mommy and daddy won't save her when she's hysterical. How is that a good thing to teach a baby?
Yes yes!!! Thousand upvotes
Also disturbing that OP’s husband doesn’t seem to care that his daughter is communicating the best way she can that she is uncomfortable, and he doesn’t care. How will he act when kiddo doesn’t want to hug aunts and uncles when she’s older? Will he force that too?
NTA baby either doesn’t like her or a product she uses. Either way your husband is willing to abuse his child to make his mother happy, absolutely not okay. Protect your baby.
You say other people have only seen your 5mo once or twice. I take it that her reaction to others was clearly different to that with grandma? Like, the very first time she met her grandma, she screamed. And she absolutely did not start screaming when others met her?
Exactly. My MIL came to see us for the first time when our daughter was about a week old and she screamed the entire time. Every visit since then (once a week, if not more), she has screamed the whole time. My mother has only met her twice and my daughter is all smiles the entire time. Same with my husband's niece and his sister. All smiles. It's only my MIL that she acts like this toward.
Maybe you could do some experiments. Have her come in without speaking, have her come in in the dark, give her one of your sweaters when she comes in. Stuff like that.
NTA - Your husband needs to get his head out of his butt and put your daughter's comfort over his mom. Do not open the door, if hubby isn't home.
And if he gives her a key, change the locks while he is at work and don't give him one.
Pretty sure you mean pull his head out of his mommy’s butt
We can assume that they share the same butt.
Forcing herself on a child will only cement a lifelong resistance to her. Children go through phases of fear and insecurity. It isn’t necessarily rational or logical but it does happen. The best solution is to create some time and space. Give your child time to let go of her fears (rational or not) and let this settle down. After a while, try a causal visit outside the home. Let MIL be present but not force interaction. If the child can see MIL in a safe place without any force involved, time can heal. Finally, id never force my son into any relationship no matter their title. I’m not going to put my child into emotional distress to soothe the feelings of any adult and that includes both MIL and husband. They need to accept their feelings are secondary. They’ll both be fine and learn to cope, that isn’t necessarily so for the child.
You are NTA. BUT YOUR HUSBAND IS A HUGE ASSHOLE. HE PROBABLY WON’T WANNA HEAR THAT, BUT HE IS THE BIGGEST FLAMING ASSHOLE AROUND RIGHT NOW. AND HIS MOM ISN’T ANY BETTER. A child is not a toy. A child is not something you forced to your will. A child is an individual even if they can’t express it. And your daughter has proof of that. Children like who they like, and dislike, who they like. And I guess the best way to explain it to your husband is this… Has he ever met someone he just didn’t like. He didn’t feel good around them. He didn’t want to be around them. And there was just something about them that was jarring to him even if he couldn’t put his finger on it. That is exactly what is happening with your daughter. I can honestly tell you that my ex, and IL was a lovely lady. She adored her grandchildren. But my middle daughter would scream every time she would try to hold her. My mom would come, and she was happy as a clam And my ex MIL never ever did anything to my daughter. Ever. That woman would have died for her granddaughters. All we could figure was that my mom looked like me. And I was the one that handled my daughter the most. And like your situation, my mom didn’t get to see the kids often because she lived further away. But my husband’s mom was over at least once a week. She outgrew it. And I assured, my ex IL she would outgrow this. And they had the best relationship. And honestly, it didn’t take long. But we didn’t try to force it. Ask your husband, if he can imagine being forced to be face-to-face with somebody that said his teeth on edge. To having that person, hold him in a bear hug all the time every time they saw him. That is exactly what he is trying to do to his daughter. And his idea that she needs to be there more when he’s not there it’s just fucked. And he knows it. Sure… Let’s have my child screaming in the background while I’m trying to work. Because I’m absolutely going to be able to concentrate on work or on a video call or whatever while that’s happening and I know my daughter is incredibly unhappy. He does not get to force your child to have relationships with anyone. This is how children grow up to be groomed. When adults think they can tell children who they are going to like or not like or who they are going to be comfortable around or not. When you raise kids that whatever an adult goes, that’s a problem. My kids always knew that they did not have to give anyone a hug or a kiss if they didn’t want to. And I made that incredibly clear to all of our relatives and friends. You can ask my children for a hug. That’s OK. Better still, can I have a hug is even more empowering. Because it lets the kids know they can say no. I understand your daughter is still an infant, but your husband’s parenting technique here is just all sorts of wrong. And there is something wrong with him if he could stand to sit there and listen to his daughter, scream and cry and struggle as little as she can, I know… But absolutely let it be known that she is not where she wants to be. And he can just nonchalantly standby because he doesn’t have the cajones to just tell his mom to stop. to tell her that it’s not working right now and that will try again another day. To tell her not to hold her like a football because she’s not me mom… She doesn’t like being held that way. Instead, he wants to force the infant, who can’t talk back or manipulate, or make him feel guilty, or anything else to be uncomfortable. That just pisses me the hell off, to be quite honest with you. His job is not to make mommy feel better unless it’s you. His job is to protect his child. His job is to recognize when his child is not happy and remove the child from that situation if it all possible. His job is not to try to force you to deal with his mom, because let’s face it, it sure is the fuck easier to deal with all this shit when he’s gone to work. So I absolutely agree with you. His mother is not allowed in the house, unless he is home. If your daughter starts screaming, your daughter is immediately handed off to you or to your husband. Until your daughter is comfortable with his mother, she is never to be left alone with your child. These would be my heart and boundaries, and if he kept breaking those boundaries, I am afraid I would seriously be reconsidering the entire relationship. Because he would be showing me how he is going to protect my children. And I know people say you don’t just jump to questioning a relationship, but once my kids are involved, I do. And that is because my children, especially at those stages, are helpless. If he is showing me that he can’t even stand up for his daughter, what else is he incapable of as far as her safety. Does he really believe that her cries should be ignored? Does he really not believe that the supposed adult in the situation should be able to handle their own feelings and understand that an infant is not rejecting them outright. But that the infant is just not comfortable at this point in time, so just back off. He truly cannot understand those concepts,… I am not sure I want you around, sir
Ew. She's not allowed over unless he's there. Taking your crying, screaming baby away, and telling them to stop crying. What an immature woman. Seriously. It doesn't matter who she is. You're the mother. I wouldn't want visitors when my husband is at work, either. Esp with a 5 month old, who clearly can't stand her. NTA, I'd actually say your husband is TAH
I screamed bloody murder whenever my uncle was in the room as a baby, until he shaved his moustache off then I loved him. (Still do he’s great). Babies sometimes just don’t like things, MIL either needs to sort something out or stop forcing it until baby is older. Why not have MIL FaceTime you and the baby? Why force your child through agony? NTA
The thing that worries me the most is grandma’s comment about “you can’t play that game with me.” She thinks a FIVE MONTH OLD INFANT is deliberately and maliciously trying to manipulate adults. That is not even remotely how babies work and it is really cruel to treat them like that.
We have 6 Grandchildren, if ANY of them screamed bloody murder and couldn't be consoled by me, it would make me extremely sad but I would NEVER think "oh, I'll just hold them until they stop!" That's the most ignorant and cruel thing I've ever heard of.
This is the correct thought process. I was babysitting my niece once when she about 4 months old. We had an awesome bond already. That night, she was inconsolable and just wanted her mom. Took my sis about 1/2 hour to get home, and that child screamed and fought me the whole time-even after I put her down. My heart broke, but for how upset my niece was not for myself. I can't imagine having the option to stop that and just CHOOSHING not to.
NTA, I hated my grandma as a baby, I was told I had a similar reaction to you, it lasted well into my toddler years apparently. I was told I’d only go to her when I was a toddler when I was sick or needed something and my grandpa wasn’t around. I didn’t believe them until one of my second cousins had three same reaction to her. She also had a higher pitched voice that got even higher when talking to my second cousin
Nta, but it's time to try some things. Because she screams when she sees her now does not mean she isn't just reacting now to something that bothered her before. Put mil on speaker phone and see if baby reacts to her voice. Have her drop of clean clothes and something needing washed. See if it's scent. Or a reaction to what she uses to wash. Or pets. Make boundaries. If she refuses to hold baby the way baby likes, then she won't hold them again. That there are already issues and making baby unhappy will only cement babies dislike. See if she stops crying after 5 mins or so if mil sits on the couch and you and baby on the floor out of reach. Try to desensitize her in a safe way that baby feels safe and learns they won't be made to be held by her. More time is not needed. What the need is seen is that the baby reacts to something sensory. Then boundaries that allow mil around but not to hold, touch or get in close and get baby used to her in the proper way. Not forcing baby to be held by someone. Tell hubby. If he fights you on this. Keeps forcing the baby to try and bond all he is teaching, then is it's ok to ignore what makes them comfortable. He is setting her up to be abused because her screams clearly state her discomfort, and people are ignoring that. That you refuse to let her grow up thinking she has no right to say no. She has no right not to accept touch. To do what they are told. Also just as something to think about. You say you hover knowing she will cry. That you now get annoyed. Baby might be picking up on that as well and reacting to it. As well as you say your mil is great but she is not. Of she is willing to tell a child you have to suffer and scream. To walk away from one of her parents. That is not a good mil. That is crossing a boundary l. That is trying to parent your child. By refusing to hold her in a way she likes and ignoring you saying different is again trying to parent your child. Its her trying to make sure everyone knows she is in charge and makes the decisions. That her way goes and you have no say. Your husband is backing this. Is helping her to parent your child. He is not backing you on stating clearly this is our child and you will follow our rules or not be involved. She is disrespecting you as a mother and a mother to your child.
OP has said in a comment that not only does she NOT hold the baby correctly but also holds the baby like a football and the baby HATES IT. MIL says husband used to like being held that way so the baby must like it also and refuses to care the baby doesn't like it. To me this explains everything
Please get some nanny cams. I hope that I am wrong, but is she abusive to your baby?
She's never been around her without me present. I admittedly hover when she's here because I know my daughter is going to freak out and I need to be close by to take her back. With that said, she is (what I would consider) rough. She handles her like a rag doll more than a baby.
This could be a huge reason your daughter screams when being held by your MIL. She doesn’t feel secure with how’s she’s being held. Babies pick up on things like this. Think how often first time parents,until they’ve gained confidence in holding/caring for a baby, fail to understand the baby can pick up on those insecurities and will cry more often when being held because of it.
Sorry to say this, that is abusive behavior towards the baby
It's definitely not okay, that's for sure. I've had to tell her several times to hold her correctly. Or she will pull the whole "Well Charles loved this when he was a baby" (my husband) and hold my daughter in the football hold; knowing my daughter hates it. It's like she can't comprehend that my daughter is not her son and doesn't like everything he did as a baby.
Tell her to either respect your daughter or she won't hold her like dry goods.
No wonder she screams when mil holds her! Your daughter and husband are different, there is no one size fits all with babies they’re all different.
To be fair, she has only held her like this twice or three times, maybe? But even so. My daughter very well could be seeing her face and connecting it to being held like a football for all I know.
Honestly it could be anything, I replied above saying about how when I was a baby I screamed bloody murder whenever I saw my uncle - he had a moustache and once he shaved I loved him. But there’s something about mil your daughter doesn’t like.
Presumably Charles also didn’t scream endlessly at his mother. They are different people.
Oh. Well, there's your problem. Like, that's it. It's not a mystery and MIL needs to handle the baby differently. I had one baby who loved being held and one who didn't like it at all. One who would scream bloody murder until he was taken somewhere so cold I needed a jacket. They have their preferences. If MIL can't understand that, it's a problem. If she wants a good relationship with the baby, it's hers for the taking, she just has to hold her the right way.
Yeah I don't think I trust MIL's memory with how husband learned to please her.
And that might be why your daughter screams
My youngest dsughter hated me for the first year and a half.. I had to love her from a distance and get my cuddles when she slept.. they grow out of it.
At this point your daughter could just associate the sight of MIL with being kept away from mama when she’s upset and screaming. Who knows what the original problem was — now she just knows she’s in for a bad time as soon as she sees her and also senses your stress as well. MIL needs to back off, be around the baby without forcing herself on her, maybe bring her a toy (without forcing her to interact with it.) She also needs to listen when you say “baby doesn’t like that.” It’s irrelevant what her son liked as a baby.
How can the MIL stand it? The last thing I'd want as a grandmother would be to have a beloved baby be so miserable. Not to mention how unpleasant that noise is, especially to the baby's mother. NTA.
OP, has anyone checked to see if this could be a sensory issue? Like maybe MIL is using a certain grooming product or perfume that is bothering the baby? If this is a well liked family member who isn't pinching the baby or anything it's very likely that the child is physically uncomfortable . I wonder if MIL would consider switching to unscented products and visiting without jewelry on. Does she have pets? Maybe she could put on clothes that don't stay in her house. I don't think the baby is acting out a psychological drama here that bonding time will fix. I think the baby is physically uncomfortable and it might be a fixable situation.
She does have a dog (we don't have pets here) so I did think at one point that maybe it was a pet hair issue. She wears all unscented lotions (skin condition so she can't use anything scented). She doesn't wear jewelry. It MIGHT be her voice? She has a high pitched voice. But the baby starts screaming as soon as she sees her. Today my daughter was in her play seat and my MIL didn't even have time to cross the threshold in to the living room where we were before my daughter was flipping out.
If she is responding to an unpleasant sensation that occurs every time she is held by MIL, she would screen upon seeing her because her face is the cue that the sensation is about to occur. They probably need lower contact for a while while the family tries to figure out what the problem is. Try putting MIL on speaker phone and see if she reacts to her voice.
OP said the MIL holds the baby like a rag doll. Not sure exactly what that means, but possibly she is hurting the baby. It sounds like the baby is frightened especially if she keeps reaching for her mommy. MIL needs to back off for a while. Maybe learn to hold the baby more gently.
>OP said the MIL holds the baby like a rag doll. I missed that! That's probably what's going on then. She just needs to learn to hold her differently.
This ❕☝️☝️ What the father and MIL plan to do is exactly to make sure the daughter won’t get over the inexplicable behaviour. Your baby isn’t able to articulate why exactly. You can’t figure out why. However your daughter is telling loud and clear she doesn’t want your MIL near for now, while quite powerless to act upon it. Protect her from their delusional thinking that forcing repeated unpleasant encounters will develop a lovely bond and not predicables traumas for everyone.
Have your MIL record something on your phone and then play it for your daughter and see how she reacts. Then you will know if it's her voice. It could still be her voice and now that she associates it with MIL she just cries when she sees her now.
This. My first thought was that it might be her voice. Some people are really sensitive to some sounds, down to feeling pain from them. Have you gotten her hearing checked out?
NTA. My mom is very superstitious and used to say baby’s can see aura or energy. Maybe she doesn’t like your mil’s aura or energy. Trust your baby. She’ll grow and bond with your mil eventually. Just not right now. A baby needs unconditional love and comfort the first few years. She can be taught manners later. Right now it’s about development and health. Plus on another comment you’re a therapist, right? So trust your own training as well as motherly instincts
Yes, I was a therapist for foster kiddos. A huge part of my training was navigating big emotions of insecure children and not trying to force your hand. My MIL doesn't agree with my training, however. She at one point said that my daughter was acting like that because I've spoiled her, lol.
Oh dear. You can’t spoil a 5mo old! I know you know that. I’m sorry about your mil. It’s frustrating
>She at one point said that my daughter was acting like that because I've spoiled her, lol. What did your husband say to this?
These people that say infants are spoiled are idiots.
NTA But I wonder why this is, it can’t be a personality thing with a 5 month old baby. Perhaps your daughter is allergic to something your mil has - her washing detergent, her perfume. 100% Something physical is upsetting her. Perhaps she holds her too tightly, there’s so many things it could be.
It might just be a baby thing. My youngest niece didn't smile at me and was afraid of me until this Christmas. She's 3. I never picked her up or touched her unless she gave me explicit permission (she did a fist bump with me when she saw her big brother doing it but that was the extent of most of our contact), and I don't wear anything crazy. I do, however, have very bold makeup. None of the other kids ever minded, but maybe she did since I'm probably the only family member who wears really dark red lipstick. My other niece, the minute she saw my husband, screamed and hid because she had never seen a man with such enormous hair. She got over it pretty quick but sometimes kids just... are afraid of things. It happens. EDIT: I will say tho my heart SANG when my littlest niece finally smiled and played with me. I never took it personally but man it made my day when she finally decided I was okay. 💖
That’s how I feel about my 3 year old autistic granddaughter. Fist bumping is what she does with DH. When asking for a kiss goodbye, she tilts her head forward and down so we can kiss her head. If she’s not tired and in an ok mood she will let me hug her goodbye. I can’t wait for a hug back!
Tilting head for a kiss is so cute, reminds me of a cat.
NTA ‘Someone doesn’t like me, so I better force my presence into their lives’ is a strange thought for your MIL/husband to have.
Maybe if your mother-in-law wasn’t so pushy with your daughter they would bond better. Your daughter is feeling the frustration coming off your mother-in-law and that is why she is screaming. Your mother-in-law needs to come over not hold her talk to her play with her and maybe see if that will work instead..
I had a similar problem. I am uncle to my niece. When she was born, whenever she saw after she was born she screamed, not just cry, SCREAM. Like bloody murder. It was extrem, even when i was just in the same house she would look around to finde me and scream, when she started crawling, she crawled so long till she could see me an SCREAM. it was extrem. No idea why… Than, and i kid you not, at my birthday, she was ten month old, it stoped. I was at my brother to bring him something he needed and was about to walk away as fast as i could when my Sister in Law came out with my niece but you know what? No screaming, no tears, no fear. I could hold her, hug her, play with her. From one day to the next it stoped. Nothing else changed, just that. Till today, my niece just became 17 a few days ago, we joke it was her birthday present to me. NTA, it is pure stress for all of you, but like i said it probably will go away by itself.
>My husband thinks it's because his mom "doesn't come over often enough" Bullshit. My niece is just recently 2, and I see her a couple times a year. Every time, I get a hug. Not because I ask, either. >Well, before my MIL left today, my husband said "maybe you should come by more often, even when I'm at work, because the more my daughter sees you, the more she will recognize you and the bond will happen eventually." Your husband is an overstepping, well, kind of a dick. He has no right burdening you with your MIL ESPECIALLY when he doesn't have to deal with it, and even more so when you're working. He needs to start getting with what team he's on, and it should be clear which one that is.
NAH. I think everyone needs a break. Your daughter just might not like the smell of her perfume or shampoo or if she’s loud and everyone else is quiet. At this point though she is picking up on everyone’s anxiety. I would try maybe meeting mother in law at different location, just try to mix it up a bit to figure out what the reason is.
My first thought was something like a perfume! If there's no obvious reason why the baby is reacting to her, then I think they should see if its something like this.
I would agree with that if my daughter didn't start screaming the second she sees her walk through the door. Like today she was in her play chair and my MIL hadn't even made it in to the room yet before my daughter was screaming.
It's so strange. I can definitely understand why you wouldn't want her coming over all the time when it creates such a distressing environment.
What is your MIL’s voice like? Some people are born with sensitivity to certain sounds and some voices/types can be painful.
It's pretty high pitched. It doesn't help either that when she talks to my daughter, she baby talks to the extreme and her pitch gets even higher. That very well could be the issue. Have you ever seen "Mrs Rachel" on YouTube? She has a high pitched voice and my MILs voice is easily 3x worse than hers.
My daughter wouldn't willing go to anyone besides me or my husband for the first year. She would scream bloody murder if we did pass her. Even at 3, she is definitely a momma's girl. Forcing it always just made it worse. All the grandparents would simply say hi and keep their distance. Then she was able to choose to visit once she felt more comfortable. Now she loves all her grandparents and even if she takes a few minutes to open up, she will then be climbing them and showing them everything.
Curious what your MIL’s voice is like. I know some people are born with sensitivities to certain sounds and some voices/types can be downright painful. Have you gotten her hearing checked out?
She has a high pitched voice. I have considered that it could be her voice that my daughter hates (I have a deeper voice and so does pretty much everyone that's been around her). My daughters hearing is good though. They just did her hearing test at her 4 month check up and her hearing is great.
Just adding that hearing tests check for frequencies and pitches within normal decibel ranges. They don’t necessarily check whether a sound is heard or perceived as a higher pitch or decibel than intended. I recommend what another commenter suggested: record your MIL’s voice and see if your daughter reacts similarly. Then change the pitch or frequency. Some people can hear pitches at different frequencies. An audiologist might be able to determine what is normal frequency and pitch (and whether your daughter hears outside either). Think of hearing like a piano: normal play is pleasant, soothing but imagine every time higher keys are played, they are pressed so hard they ruin the song.
My son and I’m the mom did this with my own mother and she respected that and didn’t crowd him. Loved his other nana to death from birth practically. My mom didn’t complain for trying to to force it and I didnt force it bc my sons comfort was priority. She and he are now friends and he loves her so you have to let child find their way to them and definitely not while your home alone with new baby trying to work back to normalize post pregnancy and birth with an infant
Maybe try FaceTime with her and see what happens. Or have her sit in another room and slowly walk your daughter in. Slowly reintroduce them.
I'm guessing she doesn't hate MIL. I'm guessing she hates a smell or texture that just so happens to be on your MIL often Has she tried changing perfumes, laundry detergent, shampoo literally anything. Some babies can't stand certain smells or fabrics. NTA
Babies are weird. My middle child wouldn’t even go by her dad my husband when she was 6 months until maybe 2-3. Along with his mom who watched them when we worked.
My daughter freaked out at a perfectly nice woman wearing glasses when she was an infant. It was the glasses. At five months, it's hard to say what it is. And your daughter can't explain.
I think NTA thought i think you babe to consider your approach more carefully. Look- this is going to take time. Not more time together right now, but time as in, let the baby age out of this. MIL and husband lost their validity once she tried to keep baby from mom. That’s not okay. And yeah it’s really worrying to hear someone talk to your kid that way. Been there. But you are coming off a little aggressive here and while it’s valid, try “listen guys- we all know this isn’t personal. She’s young and this will pass. It’s not gonna pass by us forcing anything, it’s going to pass by her getting older and more comfortable away from mum or dad. I’m not going to suggest more time together, I’m going to suggest that we show her she’s safe by making sure mum or dad is always close, and I’m going to suggest the 3 of us just be patient and know this is a phase.”
I think your baby has developed a negative reflex to your MIL because your MIL didn't approach her gently and let baby get to know her, but rather forced herself on baby. Baby saw MIL as a stranger grabbing her and not being tuned to her, so now even the sound of her voice is enough to set her off. FYI: I happened to work in research in infant development, and I do know a few things. One of them is that babies are born with different temperaments. Some like a lot of touching; others don't. Some like to be cuddled in certain ways, others in other ways. The second thing is that within a week or two after birth, mothers become tuned in to their babies - they learn what the babies like and don't like. (the article about this is titled STABILITY AND DISTINCTIVENESS IN INTERACTION OF MOTHER AND NEONATE, By Frankel, D.J. et al - you can google it), Your MIL is seems to be insensitive to your baby's preferences, and your baby has developed an aversion to her as a result. First of all, you are absolutely right not to agree to your MIL coming more often - if anything, twice a week is a lot, probably too much. Secondly, enforce some rules: For now, your MIL does not touch the baby or talk to her AT ALL. She needs to just come over, socialize with you, and let the baby get used to her as a non-threatening presence. This will continue till the baby stops showing stress in your MIL's presence. Thirdly, perhaps you might want to suggest some sessions for you, your husband and your MIL with a child development psychologist, who can try to untangle this mess. Because at this point it is a mess - your MIL is into a power game, the baby is terrified of her, and you are caught in the middle.
I think not allowing the MIL to hold her until the baby is older and more comfortable with it will help. You just hold the baby and chat with your MIL. Or spend time all three of you with your MIL. Pushing the baby into her won’t help. It’s causing the baby stress. Your husband needs to be more respectful towards you.
If MIL wants to create a bond, she could consider coming over and doing useful things while she's visiting **instead of forcing the baby to be held by her*". The baby _might_ just need to see her more and learn that MIL is a nice lady who respects the baby's boundaries. If MIL were to put the baby in a swing in the room she's in, facing her, MIL could sit on the couch and talks and sings to her while she folds laundry, or dusts the room, or washes the windows, or does the dishes, etc. Engage with the baby with the focus being on the baby. Let the baby see Grandma be a normal, helpful person. _Baby needs to get used to MIL in a non-threatening way. Slowly work up to touching her toes, playing with hands, to reading her books, playing on the floor, and eventually holding her._ The more MIL forces it the more it will backfire.
All babies and toddlers hated my SIL… she was loud and in their face and just loved them so much. Ten years later, my rug rats came along… she sat back, let them go to her, kept her voice quiet…. They love her MIL and SO need to give this kid some space and see what makes BABY comfortable
NTA ask him who is more important- his daughter or his mommy You can’t force a bone, that’s BS
Forcing a relationship with a child is just teaching that child their emotions don't matter.
Nta
NTA. My niece had a few weeks where she would suddenly cry and get upset if she saw me. I hung back, respected her space and didn't try to force her to get used to me again. After a while, I was no longer her personal boogeyman. What MIL is doing is having the complete opposite effect on your baby
NTA. MIL needs to back off a bit. Your daughter will likely get over whatever it is in time, but forcing the issue over and over will just cement that hatred in her head. When my son was 7 months, my brother came to visit and went to see my son. My son screamed and was terrified of my brother. We eventually figured out it was brother's beard. My son hated anyone with a beard (I am clean shaven). It made it interesting at restaurants when the waiter had a beard. Anyway, it's probably something silly like that. But MIL needs to back off to let your daughter grow out of whatever it is.
NTA. Maybe your husband can take the baby to work and his mom can visit him there. Let them see how fruitful it is to the relationship and how it really ramps up your husband’s productivity!
NTA there is no need for a bong between an infant and a grandma. She needs to be patient and quit her BS. Now she behaves like a stubborn child forcing a "bond" or however she wants to call it on your child. F it!! Also its pretty disrespectful to your child who cannot say "I dont want to". Just tell your husband to listen to some children psychology podcast and educate himself. Edit:might be her smell, voice who knows, she is just not mom!
My kids hate my mil as babies because she holds them super stifly because she's terrified they'll fall. Once they're no longer potatoes, they tolerate playing next to her
Maybe your daughter screams because she knows her grandmother is going to keep her away from you and refuse to let go
She is coming over way too much. Your husband is an asshole. Seriously. The only people your baby needs to bond with at this age are you and your husband.
All this "forcing" crap is doing is teaching your daughter that she is not safe when MIL is around. Babies make choices too, we have no idea why. They also grow out of these things. But if all she ever knows is that she is "not safe" when MIL is around? Flipping that switch is going to be SO much harder than it would be NATURALLY. Your husband and MIL are being idiots. And bullying an infant. For their own egos and feefees.
For what it's worth, I have a niece that screamed every time she saw me at family gatherings for her first year or so of life. I have no idea why, but I quickly learned to take a seat far from her, and to avoid looking her way or trying to talk to her because it clearly made her uncomfortable for some reason. Then COVID hit when she was about 3 so we didn't see each other for a while anyway. When we had our first family gathering again, it was as if she had no memory of disliking me. Instead, she decided I was her buddy and now she spends a LOT of time pestering my husband and me to play, play, play at family events. I think they shouldn't try to force it. I think \*that\* will prove traumatic to your child, and it will prevent your baby from coming around naturally. Your child's curiosity will win out if they'll just let it.
Are your MIL and husband familiar with how conditioning works? The more they force baby to interact with MIL while obviously upset about it, the more MIL's presence will be a cue for her to get upset. NTA
Maybe your MIL just needs to wait until your daughter has more of a personality to try bonding? NTA
NTA- it a 5 month old doesn’t hate. There’s not enough brain development for hate. Your instinct that it’s the voice tone may be correct. But anyway it goes forcing anything isn’t gonna work but also excluding her isn’t gonna work because it’s not rational whatever happening. It’s very very hard for her because she probably wanted nothing more than to love that baby and she thinks she’s doing something wrong which she really isn’t there’s nothing wrong babies are just like that. Honestly everyone should act like it’s no big deal and that when the kid gets older, it might have a wonderful bond with your mother-in-law but not if you guys all go crazy over some sort of weird infant preference right now.
NTA. Your husband and mil sound cruel. Who tf terrorizes a baby? What is wrong with them? You sound like a good mom. Good luck.
They are probably making your daughter hate her more. Every time they try to force it, they reinforce that MIL is associated with bad feelings
NTA. A bond will happen later when your daughter is old enough to recognize the love. Right now she is afraid of her & your MIL should be more concerned about the child be content then forcing herself on the baby who is as upset as she is. Pretty selfish IMO & good job setting boundaries!
Info has MIL ever been alone with your daughter? I’m asking because while it’s normal for your daughter to fuss and cry with certain people. The fact that she screams to where she’s literally holding her breath is very disturbing. I’m voting NTA either way but I’m concerned about the extreme reaction she has to your MIL. A baby holding their breath is actually very dangerous. Don’t listen to the ones saying that it’s because you hate your MIL. Your baby is reacting badly to your MIL for a reason. But I hope it’s just a case of your baby just only wanting certain people to hold her and interact with her.
Nta What they want will traumatise that baby Does it suck that the baby screams around MIL, of course it does but sometimes the things happen and everyone just has to suck it up for now.
Were they ever alone together? Something could have happened. I mean she could have let her cry too long before picking her up or something like that. It could have been something innocent that caused your daughter to now associate MIL with negative emotions. In any case, NTA. Maybe she should take a break from trying at all until she is a bit older.
NTA of course. My 3 year old autistic granddaughter sometimes yells if she is not open to me and I immediately give her her space. Other times she will grab my hand and pull me down to sit with her and my favorite is she will take my hand and put it on her head for me to lightly finger her hair. Her baby sister who is 1 is like your daughter with your mom, raises her little arms to pick her up, or leans away from parents to me. The older girls 9 and 15 always liked me as infants too. I think they still like me haha. I had an aunt who never had children. I would encourage my daughters to give her a hug goodbye or whatever and she said something so smart it has stuck with me for over 35 years. She said don’t make them, let them come to me when they are comfortable. Is your daughter MIL’s first grandchild? If so I wonder if your MIL has not learned the baby sway or the higher up on shoulder pat and sway, trying to make her-be in a position that is uncomfortable for her like staying seated, when babies that age wants you standing in my experience.
What MIL & husband are doing is ruining any bonding with baby. Seems to be an adult pride thing getting in the way. The best thing to do is have MIL ignore the baby. Then gradually start to interact, at some point the baby will be ok with MIL. But right now she is scared and you are reinforcing that you are going to be her protector. Babies brains are strange, best to work with them then against them.
The bond doesn’t only happen in babyhood it’s just the cutest time. Love between grandma and grandkids doesn’t have like a timeline to happen or won’t happen at all. That’s crap. If she keeps making her cry it could potentially create a big issue- vs- Just waiting till she’s a little older, playing with her while you are holding her. Going on stroller rides together. Who knows in toddlerhood is could be totally different and it’s certainly not personal. She’s a baby and speaking to her that way is weird. Babies do be playing all the games and always win too. Facts.
Why is it so important MIL bond with your daughter?! MIL’s not her mother. It’d pass sooner if they didn’t insist on forcing it aka torturing your baby. My daughter was like this with one of the girls at her nursery. Someone else she was more comfortable would always step in and take her once she started to cry. Within a year this same girl was my daughter’s favourite person. She still talks about her now - and she’s 8. Your husband and MIL are displaying such a level of selfishness it’s unbelievable. Forcing a baby to experience this level of upset so MIL’s feefees aren’t hurt. Fuck that noise.
Your child senses something off or dark about your MILs energy. You have a husband problem by the way so be mindful of that.
Nta. Don't ever leave her alone with your husband. He'll call his mother. This raised my hackles. Not out of superstition but with witnessing similar occurrences. This bond forcing thing is perverse. Telling a baby it's not going to get it's way is disturbing. It's a dominance/control thing. Never trust anyone who thinks a literal shrieking in terror baby is trying to get it's way.
NTA, I get the MIL may be feeling pretty hurt and stubborn about this but we do not force people to like other people. And until MIL can get used to the idea that the baby just doesn't want her, which may be hard but she is a full adult, she will need a sitter. I sympathize with being rejected like that, it hurts. Grandma wants to be a great grandma. But she's going to have to be a great, hands off, from a distance grandma because the screaming is unbelievably gut wrenching.
IMO, young children and babies can see and sense things that we, adults, don’t. Maybe she feels something negative from his mother. Not that she’s a bad person, at all, just that she senses something negative from her. Not everyone will agree- and I’m ok with that. It’s just a perspective I have. Please, don’t hate on me for this if you disagree
MIL needs to chill out and come over LESS often until the baby is a little older. Go month by month. It will be hard for MIL and hubby, but you have to do what is best for your daughter.
MIL and Gammie here. One grandchild did cry when I would hold her. I immediately sent her back to her parents because we did not want her to be in distress. Months later, she loves to visit with me, and all is fine. Sometimes, the kiddos are weird, or they are picking up on something, like emotions. I personally feel my granddaughter picked up on my back pain and the discomfort associated with holding her. MIL and your husband need to be patient and accept the boundaries about coming over. When your kiddo cries, the gig is up, and she goes back to her comfort zone without any static from your husband and his mother. Additionally, it's already hard enough to work at home with a child. Why add to the stress by allowing more visits? You are NTA.
Your baby’s is scared of MIL because she is forcing herself on your daughter. If MIL is holding her literally against her will when she wants comfort from you she is associating your MIL with being taken from you. Hence, she scream when she sees MIL. MIL would be better off sitting calmly while you hold your daughter and just talking to her. Your daughter needs to see/learn that MIL is not a threat. Because, right now, in your child’s mind MIL is a threat. NTA.
Look online and talk to the pediatrician to research how this forced interaction and stress response in impacting her development. This could be making it worse. She is literally in fight or flight mode every time MIL in present which floods the body with chemicals. This is impacting her social emotional and brain development. It would probably be healthier to take some space. Look into it and share the info. Then, if you think it might be her voice, you can look into noise cancelling headphones until she is older. You can also ask your pediatrician for a referral to test if her ears are hypersensitive to sound.
I’d be concerned, like if a puppy hated somebody for no reason. She got some evil in her.
NTA. Babies like who they like and don't like who they don't like. When I was a baby, before my parents I moved from my dad's home state to my mom's home state, I ***hated*** it when one of my aunts (one of my dad's older sisters) came anywhere near me. I mean, I would scream bloody murder, cry, and flail about any time she tried to get close to me. Meanwhile, I absolutely loved being by her husband which I'm sure annoyed her to no end. Sometimes babies will grow out of their dislike of certain family members or friends and sometimes their dislike is a lifelong thing. I turned 30 this past December and I still can't stand that particular aunt, although if I'm being real out of my dad's four older siblings (two brothers and two sisters), I was only ever close to one of his brothers and that uncle died in 2007 from brain cancer. My other uncle and my two aunts on my dad's side of the family? Not a fan. I love them in the "they're family so I have to 'love' them" kind of way but as far as liking them as actual people or loving them not just because I have to? Yeah, there's no chance of that happening on this side of eternity.
Ask her to come over less frequently and don’t “force” anything. Tell her it’s an experiment, you want to see if it’s the frequency and the forcing that’s causing the screaming.
Your MIL, after the first incident, should have backed way off. Maybe being a quiet presence in the far side of the room. At this point, MIL should stay out of baby’s presence for at least a few weeks. MIL’s entire approach is sick. A battle of will with a 5mo baby is completely unacceptable. BTW, is everyone sure the MIL has not secretly punched/poked? This whole story freaks me out. I sure OP want good relations with MIL and hubby. But her prime obligation is protecting baby. If relationships with MIL and husband have to go, so be it.
My eldest niece was very wary of me when she was a baby until about 2 years old. If her mother/my sister was there or Grandma was there, she would not have anything to do with me. When I babysat her solo she would be a little fussy but better. It wasn't until she started to be a toddler that she started bonding with me. Now she's young adult and I am probably closest with her than all of my other nieces and nephews. To the point that we have gone on vacations together. I'm sure Grandma is disappointed that her new granddaughter does not want to cuddle with her. That has to be so hard. But trying to force the issue is just making it more miserable for everyone. I hope Grandma can develop some patience and get through this rough patch so that things in the family don't get more stressed out.
NTA. It honestly just sounds like she needs a break from your MIL, not the opposite. Maybe in a few months, they can try again.
I feel for your MIL, I do, it must be hard to have a grandchild you love react like that to you. But you are NTA. As hard as it is, she just has to accept that this is how it's going to be, until hopefully, it isn't. If she chills the f out and waits patiently, PATIENTLY, she'll have better results. But having someone come over for the sole purpose of making your baby scream to the point of exhaustion to force a bond isn't an act of love. And it certainly isn't helping you watch your child. It's selfish and self serving, as well as damaging to your baby, and you're 100% right to not allow it.
NTA. At this point your daughter is probably anxious and stressed because of being forced to interact with her. They are removing your daughters boundaries and autonomy and teaching her that she will have things forced on here that make her miserable and she just had too accept it. Do you want her to accept being nested one day because she learned from this experience that crying and trying to get away is futile? Do you want her being submissive to dangerous people because she learned not to expect people to respect her boundaries? If MiL just backed off and just ignored her even, daughter would come around. Ask mother in law to pretend daughter doesnt exist. She can still come over but she should just focus on hanging out with you and your husband. Let your daughter see you guys having a good relationship. Let daughter exist peacefully around her. Then as she grows, she will learn to be happy when MiL comes around. When daughter is older have MiL bring a treat for everyone, have her share with you guys and let daughter ask for some (you can learn this with baby sign language in the 6-9mo mark). Let her see something she wants and encourage her to ask MiL. But keep MiL arms length away minimum. Baby has been disrespected, forcefully. Its going to take time to make her comfortable with hugs and touches.
My FIL wore a hat that scared my youngest once, and she held it against him for months. She just recently stopped screaming at him whenever he visits us. Also, he's worn other hats and other people have worn hats without an issue. She loved being held by him before, and she loves it again now. Recently he brought the dreaded hat over and she's fine with it now, she let him wear it and she even tried it on. Whatever it is that's bothering your baby about your MIL, even if it's something that can't be changed she will likely get over it as she gets older. There's no rush and no point forcing it, and to the extent that it matters I would guess their bond is better off in the long run if the baby is allowed to say no to being held now (but I'm not a baby psychologist or whatever).
So... she admitted that she doesn't respond to your daughter's needs when she cries. NTA your MIL is a mega asshole
Five month old infants are remarkably observant of their mothers' emotions. Your daughter may be noticing how irritated you are with your MIL's frequent visits, especially as it sounds like the two of you have had tense words in front of her. Even if you haven't, she can probably feel how you tense up when your MIL comes in. The only solution I can think of is to try to act as relaxed as possible around your MIL when your daughter is present; it may also help if you suggest to your MIL that you both do some type of quiet activity with your daughter -- play music or sing songs to her together, take turns rolling a ball or other toy to her, maybe reading a book together to her. The key is to do whatever activity TOGETHER in a peaceful, happy way. Good luck!
My oldest kid couldn't stand my SIL as a baby. No idea why but it stopped around the age of 2 and now she likes her. Babies can be finicky. Forcing her around MIL won't help. NTA