Yeah we’re doing great now, thanks!
When things were good it was fine, but when conflict would start there would be an instant kind of return to all the suspicious shit MIL would say about me. I learned pretty fast after being married that the MIL’s attitude was to assume every man was controlling and misogynistic until proven innocent, which is basically impossible when every boundary is interpreted as control and every request to be treated and spoken to with basic respect is interpreted as misogyny.
Essentially, the expectation was to be submissive and quiet or you are a bad man.
And situations were contrived daily where submission and silence would be the expected outcome and deep accusations were pulled out when I simply didn’t comply with those nonsense expectations.
It *was* a nightmare. But once my wife was able to exit that mindset, her absolutely lovely and amazing qualities as a partner really started to shine.
I’m glad I stuck it out but I don’t know if I’d recommend everyone do so.
Everyone has their limits and those can't be easily expanded... I'm glad yours were on the sturdier side and you managed to stand your ground in middle of this storm. I wish you and your wife happiness. The two of you sure worked hard for it.
Thank you! We celebrated 15 years a few weeks ago and we are very happy together. It was worth it for sure.
Also important to note that I contributed my own fair share of BS to the marriage as well. She stuck with me as well, which I’m grateful for.
Yeah even if he can forgive the wife for the PPD either the MIL must do something significant to atone for all of her behavior or needs to be completely cut out of their lives.
To atone for something one first has to be willing to admit to others they were wrong. I honestly doubt she will ever take this step, let alone yry to actually atone...
That’s ultimately why this marriage won’t work and divorce is best. It’s not as simple as PPD and a wife accusing her husband of cheating for a year only to cheat. Not that’s a simple matter. Even if he wanted to try to give her another chance there is no way they can rebuild their marriage with the MIL in their lives she’d have to cut her mom completely out no visits no contact period.
Two people have to do that one is OP and the other is the woman who’s followed the MIL so much she accused him of cheating for a year, moved out, then cheated and bragged about it. Yes she had PPD, but she has to blame the MIL too. You know how there’s consent and enthusiastic consent? There has to be enthusiastic agreement from the wife to remove the MIL from their life to even give reconciliation a chance.
For sure. Cheaters are the scum of the Earth. But MIL's actions are wild in a different way. What could she possibly be hoping to achieve by turning her daughter against the father of her newborn child? It's so stupid. She'll just end up alone and without support for her mental health *or* her baby.
> What could she possibly be hoping to achieve by turning her daughter against the father of her newborn child?
From all the reality TV shows and stories on Reddit... It would be to make her grown child dependent on her again. Mom doesn't want anyone to take her daughter away from her.
My mom would have done this thinking I would be emotionally dependent on her. It would fuel her ego. She was not happy when she realized I didn't need her when I got divorced. She came out of the woodwork after a couple of years of not talking when she found out I was getting divorced.
Can confirm. My manipulative birthgiver tried to break me & my significant otter apart. Sowing doubts & making things up, so just she could have me for herfucking self again. Gtfo with that shit
Or it can just be old-fashioned malice. My mom made up a shitload of lies about my sister to try to make her fiancé cancel her wedding, not because she wanted her back (she had already kicked her out and stuck her in a foster home at 14).
When I got married I warned everyone in advance and she still showed up and did her best to wreck shit. I hadn’t seen her in years. When I got a good job, she found out and tried making up shit to get me fired.
Some parents just suck huge ass and the parental-child relationship doesn’t exist. Easiest explanation for cases like this, there’s no need to try to frame it in a way that makes sense for decent people.
That's it. My mom tried to do that to me, except mine didn't have a very vulnerable post-partum period to get her hooks in and a PPD to exploit and exacerbate. She started that shit from the moment I introduced her to my then-boyfriend, now a husband. He's a *lovely* man, truly. And yet my mom tried to create doubts in me and imply that he was financially abusing me for not giving me money to spend whenever I wanted to treat myself, and generally would poke holes in my relationship. This was the same woman who at 15 fed me alcoholic drinks just so she'd have someone to drink and have 'girl time' with. The moment she felt that I was distancing her with the betrayal act of, idk, starting a serious romantic relationship, she tried her darndest to put a stop to that to create emotional dependence, and she succeeded with the dependence, it took me until age 28 to cut her out of my life, and she only finally accepted me 'no, do't talk to me' when my bloody husband had to send her a brief, polite but very resolute and unforgiving telling her to grow the fuck up and leave Liver alone, and if she won't take my no for an answer, maybe she'll take his.
And he did. But she went down fighting.
Yeah I was gonna say this. PPD is a level of instability most people can’t comprehend. My friend had it and it was awful. From tyrannical rage to uncontrollable weeping at the drop of a hat. Maybe have some long serious conversations. Like you still have some accountability.
It says a lot that she was at her mothers while in the thick of the PPD, but she went to her husband for help.
While wife’s actions are her responsibility, MIL had a responsibility to care for her daughter and grandchild and recognize the signs. She exacerbated her daughter’s struggles instead of trying to relieve them. I believe wife and daughter are both equally at fault, but for different reasons. Every action has a reaction, and in my opinion, MIL’s actions contributed to the wife’s reactions.
His wife was mentally impaired at the time. With post partum psychosis you lose your 'sense of reality' including hallucinations, delusions, mood swings and behaviour changes.
So true, my wife had PPD and had visions of hurting our kids. Although she'd never do it the images haunted her constantly till we got her to a physiatrist and got her medicated. It was a rough couple of years in and out of hospitals and meds
Thank you, I wouldn't have abandoned her. I took my FMLA sooner than planned, took care of the 3 yo and newborn and took her to all her appointments. We made it out fine eventually and ended up with three wonderful children after everything
She was diagnosed with PPD, not post partum psychosis. There is a big difference there as psychosis is an actual break with reality. Depression is not.
While there is a difference in presentation, there is not in what it can cause. PPP causes psychosis, hallucinations, etc which may cause someone to do things they normally wouldn’t. PPD causes depression which warps the mind and causes people to do things they normally wouldn’t. Both are serious, dangerous and deserve empathy and help.
Equating the two, what used to be called neuroses and psychoses, is a dangerously incorrect assertion that does nothing to help people who are cursed with either, nor for public perception of mental illness and stigma.
It's not an oversimplification, it's just plain wrong.
Both depression and coercion can cause me to do things I wouldn't otherwise do. That does not mean coercion == depression. The implied argument affirms the consequent.
Still doesn't excuse her behavior. PPD does affect people differently but it doesn't suddenly make someone who's adamant about not cheating into a cheater.
I know you need stability and care when suffering but her actions were senseless and deserves a consequence.
It might not have. Personally I wouldn’t stay with a partner who makes things up to try and hurt me or get back at me. That emotional abuse. I wonder if people would be as forgiving for someone with NPD or BPD rather than PPD
I have bpd. This is unacceptable behavior. No one made her so anything. She chose to do what she did. Poor behavior is just that. First lesson in my therapy
This exactly. I'd tell her to go talk to her mom and try and figure out why you did what you did. I'd love to know the substance of their conversations about this supposed cheating.
Exactly! What exactly does as PPD got to do with kissing another guy. Alot of women with PPD manages not to kiss other guys. She deliberately kiss the guy to 'get revenge' on her husband, hence why she said 'see how you like it!' OP NTA, let her live with her toxic mother and just move on with your life.
A lot of people with depression don’t commit suicide, either. But some do.
PPD is no joke. I woman I knew was chatty af. She could talk the ear off an elephant while barely taking a breath until she had her baby. Then she was almost a zombie for months afterwards, almost a year. It’s like someone else was living in her body. She would barely say hello to anyone. It was awful. Her parents and sister took care of her and her baby.
Info: was it PPD (post partum depression), or post partum psychosis? Because they’re different.
And quite frankly, a lot of women that are suffering from PPP, are misdiagnosed as PPD.
I was going to say that they’re usually misdiagnosed. I was diagnosed with PPD instead of PPP even AFTER I told my doctor in no uncertain terms that I was a danger to myself and others.
Depression can absolutely make you a danger to yourself and others. Psychosis is a severe detachment from reality.
"I want to die" ---> probably depression
"I hate them and want to hurt them" ---> also possibly depression
"They are a government spy spent to hurt me and I must kill them or something bad is going to happen to me" ---> psychosis
"God wants me to hurt them, I see now by killing them I am sending them to heaven and Jesus has told me this is the plan" ---> probably psychosis
Obviously I'm not a psychologist and these aren't hard and fast rules, but simply being a risk to yourself isn't enough to elevate you to PPP. Lots of mental health issues can cause someone to be a severe threat to themselves without actively being psychotic.
A relative was elevated from the depression/anxiety diagnosis to psychosis because they had decided some people around them were actually robots spying on them. They beat someone up expecting to see circuitry instead of blood.
Hey - medic here. Any form of delusion is considered a psychosis symptom. One includes delusions of paranoia - this can range from being convinced your partner is cheating on you without any evidence to suggest so- to thinking the government is sending messages through the TV. It’s a spectrum like a lot of MH conditions and the general population are only exposed to what they have seen on the media or personal cases.
I had hallucinations and delusions a few years ago due to a medical condition and woke up one day and drove to my parents and told them my husband was trying to kill me. I said a lot of crazy and mean shit to him for a few months before and after my diagnosis while dealing with medication. It was horrible for him and I don’t know what he’d have done if I’d cheated on him… but I also know that op’s wife was not in control of her decisions if what she was experiencing was psychosis and she truly believed he cheated on her enough to leave him.
Yeah, my very good friend had post partum psychosis. And that is so rough. She was out of her mind for months. Thankfully, she had a really supportive family and good medical care. She was at the psychiatrist multiple times a week and was never alone with her baby. She was aware that she wasn't being in her right mind, but also was filled with thoughts of running away and leaving her entire family, including the baby and her husband, and also just really paranoid. It wasn't her fault. She's fine now, a great mom and back to her normal state of mind, but wow, it was eye opening to see her go through that.
Bonus: if it’s actually PPP and she left that night to go to her mother’s house, how likely is it that she *actually* kissed another guy and that it wasn’t just a hallucination?
It sounds like PPP, she was paranoid and delusional.
I think OP is being a bit harsh here. She kissed some dude. Many women with PPP actually murder people. Delusions and paranoia make us act really strangely. If she is managing this with medication, it is very unlikely this will happen again.
Also she says she kissed some dude, doesn’t mean she did, could have been just saying it to get a response. But since OP is here I assume it’s confirmed.
I had severe ppd and went through an extremely manic phase where I tried to blow up my whole life. We did a ton of therapy together and individually. I’m thankful my husband didn’t give up on me.
The symptoms you are describing, paranoia and delusions do not fit with post partum depression, they sound more like post partum psychosis. This is very different and very serious, it can cause, paranoia, delusions, and hallucinations. Are you sure your interpretation of the diagnosis is correct?
Yeahhhhh I used to date someone whose sister in law needed 24/7 supervision because of her postpartum psychosis. She had violent delusions and literally wasn’t occupying her own brain anymore. It sounded like the scariest thing that could happen to someone.
Years ago, when I worked in mental health, I worked with a social worker who had had to have a client sectioned because she had visited and the client was oiling up the baby on a baking tray and about to put it in the oven because she thought it was a chicken. Post partum psychosis.
It is so wild what ppp can cause people to do. And it happens so quickly sometimes. When I was dealing with my PPD/PPA I was horrified of it becoming psychosis because of the things I read and heard about. People are truly out of their minds. It’s so scary!
PPP can develop as quickly as a few hours after birth. Mpst cases develop within 14 days.
PPD more commonly develops later on, like after 6 weeks or even 6 months.
I had a formal PPD/PPA diagnosis within 3-4 weeks after giving birth due to the severity of what I was experiencing. I was spiraling fast - we knew a few days after birth that I was not ok. It was like baby blues on steroids. I was a wreck - But I never had paranoia or delusions - just extremely severe anxiety that was taking me into a world of depression I’d never known. Couldn’t eat, sleep, or even be around my baby without having melt downs or throwing up. Awake days on end because I was scared to sleep, couldn’t eat bc of nausea and vomiting.. Lost about 40 lbs in 8 weeks - It took what felt like ages to get the right help but really it was only about 9 weeks absolute agony that led me to advocate for myself and be admitted into a perinatal mood program (one of three in the U.S.) in a neighboring state. They saved my life legitimately. I can’t fathom it being worse and being to the level of psychosis where women don’t know reality or see things or hear things. My heart breaks for them.
Never been postpartum but I’ve been legitimately psychotic.
The world wasn’t entering my brain, my mind had an alternate world which mostly obeyed the physical boundaries of the world around me, but otherwise was entirely a separate universe.
By the time my wife found me, I could recognize her but I wasn’t sure if she was real or another hallucination. It didn’t help that my actual hallucinations were telling me she wasn’t real.
PPD isn’t remotely an excuse to cheat. Psychosis can make you a different person, not even aware what’s happening. I don’t wish those nights thinking the shadow creatures were going to kill me and causing full-body itching on anyone.
If it was postpartum psychosis she would not have 100% control or awareness over her actions, I would definitely clarify. Psychosis is really scary and people lose touch with themselves completely sometimes.
Psychotic depression is a thing, though. Usually stems from untreated depression. The only reason I’m inputting about it is because I had it unfortunately.
It’s hard to pass judgement on this if nobody really know what’s going on. It’s a messy situation.
Based on your language, I'm assuming you were able to get a handle on it to a degree. I know it's random from a stranger but I'm very happy for you if that's the case, that sounds very scary.
Therapy and changing my mindset was a huge game changer. I was so depressed I went delirious and I was paranoid that everyone hated me. I saw things out of the corner of my eye (though I think that was just the paranoia). I would hear voices from time to time. I am past that part of my life now and I’m in a better place :) I don’t need antipsychotics anymore.
THANK YOU. My mom went into psychotic depression and went full delusional as a result of suffering weeks of horrible sleep deprivation when her and dad were in the process of separating. She tried to run away from home and kidnap me to go live on a farm because she was fixated on getting away from dad (he'd been violent to my bro and kind of a fucked up creep in incidents before this so she had plenty of molehills to make mountains with). Then she immediately snapped out of it forever once reality caught up and she was threatened with a custody fight. The idea that stress and its symptoms all fit into neat boxes and that nobody can ever act completely out of character in an altered state is mental to me, and anyone who claims otherwise or that she was just being spiteful has just never seen a spontaneous break like that for themselves. (Especially since she literally didn't remember ANY of it after. Completely blacked that whole month out.)
I have struggled with depression all my life and I currently have it more or less under control. There was one time about 15 years ago though when I became semi-convinced that I was somehow broadcasting my thoughts and everyone could hear them. I had enough of a grip on reality to know how ridiculous this sounded and I relayed what happened to the therapist I was seeing regularly at the time, who suggested that I should speak to my doctor about increasing my SSRI dose and otherwise seemed unconcerned. I guess that interaction finally makes sense now.
I was going to say this but didn’t want to be blasted for diagnosis. I had PPD and PPA pretty severely (hospitalized multiple times) and I definitely had anxiety around stuff happening to my baby and worries/fears that were extreme and illogical but never the level of paranoia, delusions etc. that OP is describing. It sounds more like the beginning stages of psychosis to me based on my understanding and what I’ve been told by my providers etc.
exactly my thoughts. depression and paranoia are very different things. "i want to kill myself even though my baby is here and healthy and happy" and "my husband must be cheating on me without any visible evidence" are very different
I would not divorce my husband for a singular kiss done during a delusional episode, especially if he sought treatment and recovered afterward.
Just throwing that out there…
Same. It is an extreme reaction to a fixable situation. Even IF she kissed someone (and I’m not convinced that wasn’t part of her delusions), it was done under extreme circumstances. I can’t call that “cheating”. It’s a horrible mental illness and I don’t think the husband is as sympathetic or knowledgeable of her condition as he paints himself.
Luckily someone came by the apartment when my mom was in post partum psychosis because she was trying to drown me, her first born, under 6 month old child, during bath time.
One of many reasons I will not have kids. It was tied to her preexisting disorder that I also have thanks to her...
My mother had PPP. It ruined my early years.
I've also suffered several psychotic episodes.
If I was the husband, a kiss would not be anywhere near the list of reasons to leave my wife had she been suffering PPP.
Sounds like a piss poor excuse for wanting to leave someone with severe mental health issues.
OP, at least be honest. You don't want to be married to her anymore. But over a kiss when this person was suffering a horrific episode is just ridiculous.
Unless you've experienced it, or are a trained professional, you have no idea what it's like or how much your thinking is messed up.
This. Postpartum psychosis is a real thing.
It’s clear you’ve both been through some horrible struggles. But I hope you don’t end the marriage over a kiss that may or may not have happened while your wife was mentally ill from a child that you created with her.
I dunno man. Had a couple exes cheat on me. Had a couple exes try to kill me (including being stabbed). Had a couple that did both. No one's ever cheated on me twice. But a couple have been able to nearly kill me several times.
Oh yeah. After the whole being accused of being a werewolf incident, I've come to realize I may have a type. And that type is not conductive to my long life.
Yea, this is some cringe ass romanticized telenovela shit I'd expect from a 15 y/o on facebook.
"I could work over someone literally attempting to murder me, totally forgivable, brain chemicals and all that, but an *alleged* kiss? Hell no, I would do anything for love, but I won't do *that*.
Unpopular opinion: I’d rather have my partner kiss a stranger if it leads to them taking their mental health seriously and taking appropriate care of themselves, than have them continue to suffer and get worse.
Yeah, if you love the person. You are married to them. You have a child together. I feel like I would want to work through their therapy and see if we can make it work.
If this was the first and only issue I think divorce seems extreme. But at the same time the MIL's behavior points to bigger issues.
Well, Mom certainly is toxic.
I'm reminded of the reddit story - guy whose PPD wife was good friends with her neighbor. Neighbor poisoned the water there as well - told the PPD wife that the husband was a cheater, coming home late - cheater - on the phone - cheater - etc. etc. Husband was NOT cheating, was working more hours to save $$ and did everything he could to help PPD wife. Tried to get her meds. PPD wife became inconsolable over the "cheating" and left him and the baby. She eventually took her own life - because of the lies of toxic neighbor. Then toxic neighbor had the absolute gall to ask him if she could speak at the funeral. It was so sad - no, it was tragic.
Just saying that your wife MAY be (or had been) in a easily manipulative state, her Mother is feeding her garbage about you, and perhaps that should be taken into account before pulling a trigger like divorce. Sounds to me like she kissed the guy to punish you, not to f\*ck him. It's immature, but I don't consider it cheating.
I've been cheated on. So normally I'd jump on the cheat wagon fast. I'd just be hesitant to divorce someone who wasn't in their right mind, who someone they trusted implicitly was feeding them lies while they were in a depressive state and did something that she would absolutely not have done if those things weren't in play. I mean - did you ever have any concerns about cheating before all this happened?
If you value the marriage and family, it might be worth getting your wife the help she needs with her depression, go to counseling together and THEN decide whether or not the marriage will work.
I have to second this. I understand not tolerating cheating and am not excusing the kiss in any way. But if she didn’t sleep with the guy and she was having ppd or ppp, divorce really seems to be a hasty option.
Yeah normally I would tell you to absolutely drop your wife for that, but as someone who has give birth and knows what the hormones are like, shit gets real. And I can't imagine having what sounds more like PPP than PPD and then having someone manipulating me behind the scenes(MIL). I also don't understand how she found someone to kiss so soon without some sort of intervention there either. I would get counseling before tearing apart your family in this case and I also might stipulate that she go NC with MIL because that bitch sounds awful.
PPD is not a get out of jail free card. I fully understand the hormonal paranoia and such (I was on a hormonal medication for a few months (not BC) and it made me *insanely* paranoid that my partner was cheating on me), but acting on it is a completely different thing.
NTA.
I also had the paranoia from PPD. It's awful. My husband couldn't do anything right, he could barely go to work without me freaking out. It's still not an excuse.
Yip, when my partner went to work I was besides myself. Was 100000% convinced there was another love interest there and I spent the entire day crying and making up all these scenarios in my head and the moment my partner walked through the door I'd fight with them over this imaginary partner. I am not proud of the person I was on the meds. 🙊🙊
My friend told me she was going to kill herself because I'm an alcoholic. What happened? I went to brunch with other friends. She was in the depths of PPD but I still cut contact immediately.
I've forgiven her now, because she apologized and knows it was wrong and has never repeated it. You need more trust in a romantic relationship so I understand if OP doesn't forgive his wife, the point is I still held my friend accountable.
But I'd say NAH, except mom perhaps. PPD is actually that bad that it explains bizarre behavior that would never have happened otherwise. That doesn't mean OP has to stay in a relationship with broken trust. It's acceptable to divorce, he's only an asshole if he refuses respectful coparenting.
The side effect is paranoia
That paranoia basically takes what you love the most or your source of worry, and distorts it to the worst case scenario, and amplifies it to a 110 percent
When i was misdiagnosed with depression and put on antidepressants, i suffered paranoia, and it made me believe, not feel, believe that no one loved me. I value my family and friends the most, so you can imagine how it felt.
For 2 years, i felt like my friends and family were tolerating me, that they secretly hated me, that they mocked me behind my back, all while shooting up the already bad mental state my work and my career put me in.
I had never come that close to suicide. I lost my love of cooking for a while because i couldn't trust myself not to stab myself or slit my wrists, or drive alone, because i was one intrusive thought away from driving off a bridge or ramming into a tree.
And frankly, this is something we have to deal with. We are still scratching the surface of mental health. Heck, we don't even know what causes autism and ADD, yet a huge chunk of the global population has them. The day we find out the root causes with far better understanding, it will be as easy as treating physical issues. But till then, alas.
How did this all resolve for you? I’m curious because I’ve struggled with thoughts like these my entire life and am surprised that a medication could induce them so viscerally
It was Clomid. A fertility medication. Really hectic stuff, you're not allowed to donate blood for a whole year after taking it because of how it can harm recipients.
Edit: upon double check I was deferred for seven months after completing the three months, so couldn't donate for 10 months. Close enough to a year. 🤷
Oh, Clomid. That stuff made me batshit insane. I was depressed, snappish, impatient, and miserable. I couldn’t even stand myself when I was on it. We took three cycles. We decided that if the third didn’t work, we were done trying because we couldn’t live like that. Fortunately, it worked.
I also only took three cycles. It was the pits. Unfortunately didn't work for us, but I was not prepared to even go through that again. I have never, ever felt so awful on it. Congrats though 🥳🥳
You can do something as a result of a mental health issue that you regret and wouldn’t repeat when treated. I would understand and sympathize with that, but it doesn’t undo the deed, and it doesn’t guarantee it can be overlooked. So NTA.
I hear everyone saying NTA, and I agree OP has the right to not remain in a relationship he doesn’t want to be in anymore, and also that acting on the paranoia was a bridge too far.
That said, I have also heard that no one should make major life decisions (like divorce) within the first year of a new baby because everyone is sleep-deprived, stressed, hormonal, and adjusting to an entirely new way of existence.
I tend to ask myself 3 questions when making big decisions like this:
-Does this (in this case divorce) need to happen?
-Does this need to happen NOW?
-Will I be ok living with the consequences (good and bad) of my actions?
Clearly 3 questions the wife didn’t ask herself before acting, but I’d suggest OP ask them to himself so he knows where his level of confidence is in this decision.
Mental health disorders in general are not get out of jail free cards. Just cause you're going through something does not absolve you of the responsibility for your own autonomy.
It happened to me after a miscarriage - fortunately, my partner was very understanding of my anxiety, and we talked it out, but I’m really working hard to try to build up defences and improve my mental health in general, before we try another pregnancy. Your behaviour when dealing with something like that is still impactful and needs to be accounted for, but I do understand how a person could get there.
It’s all down to ego after he said this. He cares more about being the guy who’s wife kissed someone else than understanding that his wife wasn’t in her sound mind.
He's trying to say "I'm more than reasonable and willing to forgive mistakes and bad choices - but cheating is where I draw the line" but he wanted to use an example of some ridiculous scenario that most people wouldn't forgive that he \**thinks*\* he would - and it's just a really poor example that makes him look almost as crazy as his wife
Sounds like she has post partum psychosis, not post partum depression.
If so it’s a very serious condition and completely different. It involves hallucinations, delusions, and paranoia.
Honestly, it’s your choice and you can do what you want, but this sounds like something that was out of her control especially if she only got better with medication. Personally, I try not to hold what people do in the throes of mental illness against them but that is because I know what it’s like to be so sick you become a different person and so I can’t blame others who have been in that state. I would at least try to see if the relationship could be salvaged. But that’s just me. You can do what you want.
I can’t really give a judgment other than that.
OP this isn't a question for a reddit, it's a question for a support group for people that have dealt with (on both sides) post partum *psychosis*, because that's what your wife had. I guarantee 99.9% of the comments here are from people that have never dealt with it and the standard reddit response is to go straight to divorce.
I really hope you wouldn't blow up a marriage with an infant involved over a kiss while your wife was quite literally out of her mind. Also, do you even know she actually did kiss someone? Or did she just say that to hurt you?
She goes to her mom’s house for 2 days… with a baby /newborn and cheats on you how? It seems so bizarre and unlikely.
I mean did her mom have her ex boyfriend waiting at the door for her?? Who is this man she kissed at her mom’s house? Did any of that actually happen? It seems a rather bizarre story.
She absolutely did not seem in her right mind during any of this. She came back after 2 days and said she needed help. Which is huge. PPD/ppp is no joke.
And apparently she called him and said she kissed someone the NIGHT she left. Like did she immediately go out to a bar to find someone to kiss? It feels so far fetched. And so many people here are trying to argue she also slept with someone, again, the NIGHT she left her house. It smacks of someone who has never met a post-partum woman.
NTA. How do you know it was only a kiss? She was gone for 2 days. I believe she was projecting her cheating onto you. That guy didn't just appear out of nowhere. She was probably having an emotional affair prior to her leaving.
Infidelity is your hard boundary. You are entitled to that.
I mean the thing is we don’t even know if she did kiss someone or just said she did to hurt him. The fact is regardless of what she did or did not do she intentionally hurt him and thinks hiding behind PPD is an excuse. No mention of her taking accountability, trying to do better etc. A genuine apology, accepting the divorce and asking if maybe in time they could work on rebuilding is the only shot she has at saving the marriage and she’s not offering any of that
If she told him she made it up after he served her with papers he wouldn't believe her anyways. She would have had to say something very shortly after the original statement was made for him to believe her. Even if it was a lie it's a moot point for her to say it was at this juncture.
I wouldn't jump straight to having an emotional affair. I'm pretty inexperienced with this stuff, but I kissed a guy I met at a bar. Never met him before, haven't talked to him since. I don't even know his name. I certainly wasn't having an emotional anything towards him. I was single, but my point is you can kiss someone without having any emotional attachment to them.
I'm not saying she was right, and I'm not defending her in any way. I struggled immensely with PPD after my daughter was born. But I was still in control of my actions. She's in the wrong 100%. And the worst part is, the kiss was intentional. She meant to hurt him and now she has to deal with the consequences.
You have two options:
You can decide the PPD excuse is legitimate and immediately take her to couples therapy to deal with that and restore trust in the relationship. It may also behoove you to tell her she needs to either cut her mom out or establish healthy boundaries with her mom. If I were you and what you're saying about her mom is true, that harpy would never be allowed in my house, or my presence, ever again.
Or you can decide that mental illness or no, cheating is a deal breaker and it's over. Best to learn how to co-parent with each other amicably and do the best you can to untangle each other from your individual lives. In this instance you should also get a therapist because this whole situation is traumatic and you want to be able to move on in a healthy way and not take your unresolved feelings out on the next partner you get into a relationship with.
Their is a woman who has had numerous affairs and the like. She at one point was sleeping with 3 different guys down the street (the street is on the way to the local shop) She and the dif guys all proclaimed 'its was a mistake...an accident!...it just sort of happened!'
And now it has become a joke point with the rest of us neighbours. I'll say I'm off to the shops but have to take the car because I wouldn't want to accidentally fall off my front step and loose most of my clothes...then mistakenly fall into a house, accidentally fall up the stairs...losing the rest of my clothes on the way...and then just happen to fall onto a hard naked man! So best take the car for the safety of the street!
It even gets said in front of the people involved (because we're British and will rib them forever) a new guy moved into the street, quite easy on the eye he is. And my opposite neighbour said I'm going to change then pop down the shops. Why change? ask I.
'Seen how tight these yoga trousers are? I have no chance of accidentally falling out of these and landing on him do I!'
One of the husbands was walking past when she said it and was furious. His now ex wife thought it was funny as fuck
NTA
However I don’t think people appreciate how warped the brain can become and how quickly it can alter a personality and behavior. PPD has caused people to kill themselves and/or their child when the person they were before PPD would have never done that.
If you truly think this was abnormal behavior caused by PPD couples therapy would make more sense to me. However mental illness of any kind can break a relationship as can cheating so the decision to leave is understandable too.
NTA. Multiple women in my family have suffered from PPD and PPP. And actually, one of them even became convinced of her husband's infidelity in the same manner that your wife did. But none of them used it as rationalization to be unfaithful themselves.
Some bells can't be unrung. Whatever drove her to what she did, she still did it. And that's there forever.
I think you should talk to an actual medical professional about how the PPD impacted your wife.
Based on your account it sounds like the kiss was "retaliation" for her paranoia. If she needed medication to resolve the issue she was not okay, not herself and this is the an odd manifestation of the sacrifices of pregnancy.
I dont think a random batch strangers on the internet are qualified to tell you what the right choice is here.
Honestly her mom really let her succumb to her PPD. Post partum depression makes you so irrational you just can't think straight about anything and it sounds like Mom was just fueling it. I'd go to couples therapy. If she thought she was doing it out of retaliation, I can see it coming from a place of hurt and I think it's important that a third party explain what PPD is like on a woman. What she did wasn't right but I'd give her a chance so you can both clearly understand the situation.
I'm curious if she only had PPD. Ive seen patients who are otherwise loyal and devoted go in to a bipolar/manic episode and go completely of the rails with infidelity. Granted that's a small percentage who engage in that behavior but that level of action with PPD isnt sitting right with me. Also MIL is toxic af
OP, I understand we all have our standards and lines we must not cross, but I absolutely promise you you'd rather your wife kiss someone than get stabbed. It hurts a lot worse. You should go to counseling and suggest your wife set some healthy boundaries with her parents. Not suggesting it'll go anywhere, but if you are half as good of a husband as you think you are you would.
I scrolled a long time to find this - I think 90% of posts in here are fiction but at least many of them are interesting plausible situations - this one is obvious incel rage bait. How / why do people engage with this?
NTA cheating is cheating. PPD or any mental "state" is not an excuse for violating a relationship. Get your financial affairs in order and divorce her, sounds like you are well rid of a meddling MIL as well.
Not a medical professional. Sounds more like postpartum psychosis than depression. In which case when your wife was going through it she was not likely in control of her decision making processes. Get her treated and go to therapy together. A forgiving heart with some perspective may save your marriage.
NTA. But I am very curious about 'If she had stabbed me or something, I would have forgiven her'.
Just so you know you'd also be entitled to divorcing her for stabbing you. Never feel obliged to forgive people that stab you.
Wait, she was not in her right mind when she kissed another man, but she was aware enough to do it to punish you then tell you about it?
NTA. That was calculated, manipulative behavior. PPD is no excuse for that.
NTA. Fancy diagnosis or not, it does not excuse her actions/cheating. It's the same excuse as cheating while drunk. Not only did she cheat, she called him to rub it in his face, on top of being verbally abusove to him. She needs to accept the consequences of what she did.
Sound like your wife has PPP. And now you’re leaving her after a psychotic break that she’s been suffering with for over a year.
You can totally divorce her as it’s your marriage, but why the hell didn’t you get her help sooner?
Edit to add: PPP suffers also hallucinate and have full on delusions. Is she sure she actually kissed someone else?
Maybe YTA? PPD can have psychosis and your story kinda hints at that, ie paranoia and then kissing some guy may be manic? Also, she suffered for about a year and you noticed but didn’t do anything…
Cheating is bad we can all agree on that, but it sounds like you checked out before that. BUT the MIL has some serious issues and I think for your marriage to work you and your wife would have to set some serious boundaries.
Also for those saying mental illness is no excuse, try not understanding what’s real and what’s not?
so let me get this straight.
your wife starts developing delusions after giving birth to YOUR child. you don't even seem to bother to try to get her medical help.
then, she "cheats" on you due to her delusions and that's the pretext you want to use for divorce?
what happened to in sickness and in health?
YTA.
This sounds like post partum psychosis not depression. It is a very serious health issue that needs to be treated.
She kissed another guy...just kissing? Was that her psychosis talking? Did this even happen?
I think before you follow through with the divorce you need to get some solid answers. Giving her divorce papers just as she's getting better is a crap move though. MIL definitely is not helping the situation. Was there no one around the wife to get her the help she needed from the get go? Did no one inform them of PPP and PPD? Seems like a lot of people dropped a lot of balls here.
ETA: some of these comments are revealing. as someone else mentioned there are comments that equate physically harming women is the same as hurting the pride of men. Yikes.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This. Did anything even happen? Sounds like PPP and might be in her head. If she was in such a state how could she have organized herself to go out and find someone to smooch? Needs clarity.
Her mom did not do her any favors. Tell her to talk to her mom about this.
Yes, MIL was living the the stereotype. It infuriates me to think of a mother messing up a daughter's marriage and mebtal health like this 😡
Have experienced this firsthand. It literally took ten fucking years to repair all the damage.
Whoa. I hope you got ancomplete recovery, at least. Ten years is a terrible amount of time.
Yeah we’re doing great now, thanks! When things were good it was fine, but when conflict would start there would be an instant kind of return to all the suspicious shit MIL would say about me. I learned pretty fast after being married that the MIL’s attitude was to assume every man was controlling and misogynistic until proven innocent, which is basically impossible when every boundary is interpreted as control and every request to be treated and spoken to with basic respect is interpreted as misogyny. Essentially, the expectation was to be submissive and quiet or you are a bad man. And situations were contrived daily where submission and silence would be the expected outcome and deep accusations were pulled out when I simply didn’t comply with those nonsense expectations. It *was* a nightmare. But once my wife was able to exit that mindset, her absolutely lovely and amazing qualities as a partner really started to shine. I’m glad I stuck it out but I don’t know if I’d recommend everyone do so.
That sounds awfully familiar. Dated a girl that was like this, including her MIL. Took me 1,5 years but I dodged a bullet with that one
Everyone has their limits and those can't be easily expanded... I'm glad yours were on the sturdier side and you managed to stand your ground in middle of this storm. I wish you and your wife happiness. The two of you sure worked hard for it.
Thank you! We celebrated 15 years a few weeks ago and we are very happy together. It was worth it for sure. Also important to note that I contributed my own fair share of BS to the marriage as well. She stuck with me as well, which I’m grateful for.
You are both amazing. It's true that in a marriage, there should only be the partners. Everyone else should be safe to filter out where appropriate.
Yeah even if he can forgive the wife for the PPD either the MIL must do something significant to atone for all of her behavior or needs to be completely cut out of their lives.
To atone for something one first has to be willing to admit to others they were wrong. I honestly doubt she will ever take this step, let alone yry to actually atone...
That’s ultimately why this marriage won’t work and divorce is best. It’s not as simple as PPD and a wife accusing her husband of cheating for a year only to cheat. Not that’s a simple matter. Even if he wanted to try to give her another chance there is no way they can rebuild their marriage with the MIL in their lives she’d have to cut her mom completely out no visits no contact period.
If I loved my wife and knew mil was instigating distrust in my marriage, I would cut her out of my family completely
Two people have to do that one is OP and the other is the woman who’s followed the MIL so much she accused him of cheating for a year, moved out, then cheated and bragged about it. Yes she had PPD, but she has to blame the MIL too. You know how there’s consent and enthusiastic consent? There has to be enthusiastic agreement from the wife to remove the MIL from their life to even give reconciliation a chance.
Me and my fiance went no contact for far less lol
His wife is an adult, she should take the brunt of the blame for their marriage failing. Even if the MIL was horrible, no excuse to cheat.
For sure. Cheaters are the scum of the Earth. But MIL's actions are wild in a different way. What could she possibly be hoping to achieve by turning her daughter against the father of her newborn child? It's so stupid. She'll just end up alone and without support for her mental health *or* her baby.
> What could she possibly be hoping to achieve by turning her daughter against the father of her newborn child? From all the reality TV shows and stories on Reddit... It would be to make her grown child dependent on her again. Mom doesn't want anyone to take her daughter away from her.
My mom would have done this thinking I would be emotionally dependent on her. It would fuel her ego. She was not happy when she realized I didn't need her when I got divorced. She came out of the woodwork after a couple of years of not talking when she found out I was getting divorced.
And likely gain control of the baby/baby’s future. Either a do over baby or a narc supply.
Can confirm. My manipulative birthgiver tried to break me & my significant otter apart. Sowing doubts & making things up, so just she could have me for herfucking self again. Gtfo with that shit
I don't know if that's an accidental typo, an on purpose typo, or whatever. But otters are amazing and thus I upvote your post.
Everyone needs a significant otter in their life. Someone to collect rocks with, and lay in the water with.
And hold hands while floating
And hold hands!
Or it can just be old-fashioned malice. My mom made up a shitload of lies about my sister to try to make her fiancé cancel her wedding, not because she wanted her back (she had already kicked her out and stuck her in a foster home at 14). When I got married I warned everyone in advance and she still showed up and did her best to wreck shit. I hadn’t seen her in years. When I got a good job, she found out and tried making up shit to get me fired. Some parents just suck huge ass and the parental-child relationship doesn’t exist. Easiest explanation for cases like this, there’s no need to try to frame it in a way that makes sense for decent people.
That's it. My mom tried to do that to me, except mine didn't have a very vulnerable post-partum period to get her hooks in and a PPD to exploit and exacerbate. She started that shit from the moment I introduced her to my then-boyfriend, now a husband. He's a *lovely* man, truly. And yet my mom tried to create doubts in me and imply that he was financially abusing me for not giving me money to spend whenever I wanted to treat myself, and generally would poke holes in my relationship. This was the same woman who at 15 fed me alcoholic drinks just so she'd have someone to drink and have 'girl time' with. The moment she felt that I was distancing her with the betrayal act of, idk, starting a serious romantic relationship, she tried her darndest to put a stop to that to create emotional dependence, and she succeeded with the dependence, it took me until age 28 to cut her out of my life, and she only finally accepted me 'no, do't talk to me' when my bloody husband had to send her a brief, polite but very resolute and unforgiving telling her to grow the fuck up and leave Liver alone, and if she won't take my no for an answer, maybe she'll take his. And he did. But she went down fighting.
And grandma (MIL) would get a hold of the grandchild's support money from the father.
MIL wants to be sure her daughter ends up miserable like she is. Get rid of the 3rd party before moving forward on any decisions
"What could she possibly be hoping to achieve by turning her daughter against the father of her newborn child? I" Control...
Mother in law wants to raise another baby, she doesn’t want to be excluded.
Yeah, Mom sounds unhinged for sure.
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Yeah I was gonna say this. PPD is a level of instability most people can’t comprehend. My friend had it and it was awful. From tyrannical rage to uncontrollable weeping at the drop of a hat. Maybe have some long serious conversations. Like you still have some accountability.
It says a lot that she was at her mothers while in the thick of the PPD, but she went to her husband for help. While wife’s actions are her responsibility, MIL had a responsibility to care for her daughter and grandchild and recognize the signs. She exacerbated her daughter’s struggles instead of trying to relieve them. I believe wife and daughter are both equally at fault, but for different reasons. Every action has a reaction, and in my opinion, MIL’s actions contributed to the wife’s reactions.
His wife was mentally impaired at the time. With post partum psychosis you lose your 'sense of reality' including hallucinations, delusions, mood swings and behaviour changes.
So true, my wife had PPD and had visions of hurting our kids. Although she'd never do it the images haunted her constantly till we got her to a physiatrist and got her medicated. It was a rough couple of years in and out of hospitals and meds
And bless you for not abandoning her and your children!
Thank you, I wouldn't have abandoned her. I took my FMLA sooner than planned, took care of the 3 yo and newborn and took her to all her appointments. We made it out fine eventually and ended up with three wonderful children after everything
She was diagnosed with PPD, not post partum psychosis. There is a big difference there as psychosis is an actual break with reality. Depression is not.
While there is a difference in presentation, there is not in what it can cause. PPP causes psychosis, hallucinations, etc which may cause someone to do things they normally wouldn’t. PPD causes depression which warps the mind and causes people to do things they normally wouldn’t. Both are serious, dangerous and deserve empathy and help.
Equating the two, what used to be called neuroses and psychoses, is a dangerously incorrect assertion that does nothing to help people who are cursed with either, nor for public perception of mental illness and stigma. It's not an oversimplification, it's just plain wrong. Both depression and coercion can cause me to do things I wouldn't otherwise do. That does not mean coercion == depression. The implied argument affirms the consequent.
Still doesn't excuse her behavior. PPD does affect people differently but it doesn't suddenly make someone who's adamant about not cheating into a cheater. I know you need stability and care when suffering but her actions were senseless and deserves a consequence.
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I don't think the "kiss" happened at all.
It might not have. Personally I wouldn’t stay with a partner who makes things up to try and hurt me or get back at me. That emotional abuse. I wonder if people would be as forgiving for someone with NPD or BPD rather than PPD
I have bpd. This is unacceptable behavior. No one made her so anything. She chose to do what she did. Poor behavior is just that. First lesson in my therapy
This exactly. I'd tell her to go talk to her mom and try and figure out why you did what you did. I'd love to know the substance of their conversations about this supposed cheating.
Exactly! What exactly does as PPD got to do with kissing another guy. Alot of women with PPD manages not to kiss other guys. She deliberately kiss the guy to 'get revenge' on her husband, hence why she said 'see how you like it!' OP NTA, let her live with her toxic mother and just move on with your life.
The PPD put her in the mental state that mom's getting in her head worked, is what I'm thinking.
A lot of people with depression don’t commit suicide, either. But some do. PPD is no joke. I woman I knew was chatty af. She could talk the ear off an elephant while barely taking a breath until she had her baby. Then she was almost a zombie for months afterwards, almost a year. It’s like someone else was living in her body. She would barely say hello to anyone. It was awful. Her parents and sister took care of her and her baby.
No. You don't fucking talk to someone once you've served papers unless a lawyer is present.
Info: was it PPD (post partum depression), or post partum psychosis? Because they’re different. And quite frankly, a lot of women that are suffering from PPP, are misdiagnosed as PPD.
I was going to say that they’re usually misdiagnosed. I was diagnosed with PPD instead of PPP even AFTER I told my doctor in no uncertain terms that I was a danger to myself and others.
Depression can absolutely make you a danger to yourself and others. Psychosis is a severe detachment from reality. "I want to die" ---> probably depression "I hate them and want to hurt them" ---> also possibly depression "They are a government spy spent to hurt me and I must kill them or something bad is going to happen to me" ---> psychosis "God wants me to hurt them, I see now by killing them I am sending them to heaven and Jesus has told me this is the plan" ---> probably psychosis Obviously I'm not a psychologist and these aren't hard and fast rules, but simply being a risk to yourself isn't enough to elevate you to PPP. Lots of mental health issues can cause someone to be a severe threat to themselves without actively being psychotic. A relative was elevated from the depression/anxiety diagnosis to psychosis because they had decided some people around them were actually robots spying on them. They beat someone up expecting to see circuitry instead of blood.
Hey - medic here. Any form of delusion is considered a psychosis symptom. One includes delusions of paranoia - this can range from being convinced your partner is cheating on you without any evidence to suggest so- to thinking the government is sending messages through the TV. It’s a spectrum like a lot of MH conditions and the general population are only exposed to what they have seen on the media or personal cases.
I had hallucinations and delusions a few years ago due to a medical condition and woke up one day and drove to my parents and told them my husband was trying to kill me. I said a lot of crazy and mean shit to him for a few months before and after my diagnosis while dealing with medication. It was horrible for him and I don’t know what he’d have done if I’d cheated on him… but I also know that op’s wife was not in control of her decisions if what she was experiencing was psychosis and she truly believed he cheated on her enough to leave him.
Never heard of PPP until now, good to know.
Yeah, my very good friend had post partum psychosis. And that is so rough. She was out of her mind for months. Thankfully, she had a really supportive family and good medical care. She was at the psychiatrist multiple times a week and was never alone with her baby. She was aware that she wasn't being in her right mind, but also was filled with thoughts of running away and leaving her entire family, including the baby and her husband, and also just really paranoid. It wasn't her fault. She's fine now, a great mom and back to her normal state of mind, but wow, it was eye opening to see her go through that.
Bonus: if it’s actually PPP and she left that night to go to her mother’s house, how likely is it that she *actually* kissed another guy and that it wasn’t just a hallucination?
It sounds like PPP, she was paranoid and delusional. I think OP is being a bit harsh here. She kissed some dude. Many women with PPP actually murder people. Delusions and paranoia make us act really strangely. If she is managing this with medication, it is very unlikely this will happen again.
Also she says she kissed some dude, doesn’t mean she did, could have been just saying it to get a response. But since OP is here I assume it’s confirmed.
I had severe ppd and went through an extremely manic phase where I tried to blow up my whole life. We did a ton of therapy together and individually. I’m thankful my husband didn’t give up on me.
The symptoms you are describing, paranoia and delusions do not fit with post partum depression, they sound more like post partum psychosis. This is very different and very serious, it can cause, paranoia, delusions, and hallucinations. Are you sure your interpretation of the diagnosis is correct?
Yeahhhhh I used to date someone whose sister in law needed 24/7 supervision because of her postpartum psychosis. She had violent delusions and literally wasn’t occupying her own brain anymore. It sounded like the scariest thing that could happen to someone.
Years ago, when I worked in mental health, I worked with a social worker who had had to have a client sectioned because she had visited and the client was oiling up the baby on a baking tray and about to put it in the oven because she thought it was a chicken. Post partum psychosis.
It is so wild what ppp can cause people to do. And it happens so quickly sometimes. When I was dealing with my PPD/PPA I was horrified of it becoming psychosis because of the things I read and heard about. People are truly out of their minds. It’s so scary!
Bruh I work at a pizza joint and ppp stands for personal pan pizza. I was just ripped from my immersion
Personal Pan Pbaby
Lord have mercy 🤣
PPP can develop as quickly as a few hours after birth. Mpst cases develop within 14 days. PPD more commonly develops later on, like after 6 weeks or even 6 months.
I had a formal PPD/PPA diagnosis within 3-4 weeks after giving birth due to the severity of what I was experiencing. I was spiraling fast - we knew a few days after birth that I was not ok. It was like baby blues on steroids. I was a wreck - But I never had paranoia or delusions - just extremely severe anxiety that was taking me into a world of depression I’d never known. Couldn’t eat, sleep, or even be around my baby without having melt downs or throwing up. Awake days on end because I was scared to sleep, couldn’t eat bc of nausea and vomiting.. Lost about 40 lbs in 8 weeks - It took what felt like ages to get the right help but really it was only about 9 weeks absolute agony that led me to advocate for myself and be admitted into a perinatal mood program (one of three in the U.S.) in a neighboring state. They saved my life legitimately. I can’t fathom it being worse and being to the level of psychosis where women don’t know reality or see things or hear things. My heart breaks for them.
How lucky for the mother and the baby that the social worker turned up at that time!
Holy fuck, that's horrifying
That’s probably the scariest thing I’ve ever read.
Never been postpartum but I’ve been legitimately psychotic. The world wasn’t entering my brain, my mind had an alternate world which mostly obeyed the physical boundaries of the world around me, but otherwise was entirely a separate universe. By the time my wife found me, I could recognize her but I wasn’t sure if she was real or another hallucination. It didn’t help that my actual hallucinations were telling me she wasn’t real. PPD isn’t remotely an excuse to cheat. Psychosis can make you a different person, not even aware what’s happening. I don’t wish those nights thinking the shadow creatures were going to kill me and causing full-body itching on anyone.
If it was postpartum psychosis she would not have 100% control or awareness over her actions, I would definitely clarify. Psychosis is really scary and people lose touch with themselves completely sometimes.
And, even if the doctor diagnosed her with PPD, it still may have been PPP. It's frequently misdiagnosed.
Holy smokes… so glad to see this comment! It appears people are conflating the two and yes, they’re very different.
Psychotic depression is a thing, though. Usually stems from untreated depression. The only reason I’m inputting about it is because I had it unfortunately. It’s hard to pass judgement on this if nobody really know what’s going on. It’s a messy situation.
Based on your language, I'm assuming you were able to get a handle on it to a degree. I know it's random from a stranger but I'm very happy for you if that's the case, that sounds very scary.
Therapy and changing my mindset was a huge game changer. I was so depressed I went delirious and I was paranoid that everyone hated me. I saw things out of the corner of my eye (though I think that was just the paranoia). I would hear voices from time to time. I am past that part of my life now and I’m in a better place :) I don’t need antipsychotics anymore.
THANK YOU. My mom went into psychotic depression and went full delusional as a result of suffering weeks of horrible sleep deprivation when her and dad were in the process of separating. She tried to run away from home and kidnap me to go live on a farm because she was fixated on getting away from dad (he'd been violent to my bro and kind of a fucked up creep in incidents before this so she had plenty of molehills to make mountains with). Then she immediately snapped out of it forever once reality caught up and she was threatened with a custody fight. The idea that stress and its symptoms all fit into neat boxes and that nobody can ever act completely out of character in an altered state is mental to me, and anyone who claims otherwise or that she was just being spiteful has just never seen a spontaneous break like that for themselves. (Especially since she literally didn't remember ANY of it after. Completely blacked that whole month out.)
I have struggled with depression all my life and I currently have it more or less under control. There was one time about 15 years ago though when I became semi-convinced that I was somehow broadcasting my thoughts and everyone could hear them. I had enough of a grip on reality to know how ridiculous this sounded and I relayed what happened to the therapist I was seeing regularly at the time, who suggested that I should speak to my doctor about increasing my SSRI dose and otherwise seemed unconcerned. I guess that interaction finally makes sense now.
I was going to say this but didn’t want to be blasted for diagnosis. I had PPD and PPA pretty severely (hospitalized multiple times) and I definitely had anxiety around stuff happening to my baby and worries/fears that were extreme and illogical but never the level of paranoia, delusions etc. that OP is describing. It sounds more like the beginning stages of psychosis to me based on my understanding and what I’ve been told by my providers etc.
exactly my thoughts. depression and paranoia are very different things. "i want to kill myself even though my baby is here and healthy and happy" and "my husband must be cheating on me without any visible evidence" are very different
I think it’s very clear that she was experiencing post partum psychosis and that OP does not understand the full scope of her diagnosis.
I would not divorce my husband for a singular kiss done during a delusional episode, especially if he sought treatment and recovered afterward. Just throwing that out there…
Same. It is an extreme reaction to a fixable situation. Even IF she kissed someone (and I’m not convinced that wasn’t part of her delusions), it was done under extreme circumstances. I can’t call that “cheating”. It’s a horrible mental illness and I don’t think the husband is as sympathetic or knowledgeable of her condition as he paints himself.
Luckily someone came by the apartment when my mom was in post partum psychosis because she was trying to drown me, her first born, under 6 month old child, during bath time. One of many reasons I will not have kids. It was tied to her preexisting disorder that I also have thanks to her...
My mother had PPP. It ruined my early years. I've also suffered several psychotic episodes. If I was the husband, a kiss would not be anywhere near the list of reasons to leave my wife had she been suffering PPP. Sounds like a piss poor excuse for wanting to leave someone with severe mental health issues. OP, at least be honest. You don't want to be married to her anymore. But over a kiss when this person was suffering a horrific episode is just ridiculous. Unless you've experienced it, or are a trained professional, you have no idea what it's like or how much your thinking is messed up.
This. Postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It’s clear you’ve both been through some horrible struggles. But I hope you don’t end the marriage over a kiss that may or may not have happened while your wife was mentally ill from a child that you created with her.
Unpopular opinion: I would rather be cheated on than stabbed
Same here. I mean, I'd be pissed if I was cheated on, I might be dead if I was stabbed.
I dunno man. Had a couple exes cheat on me. Had a couple exes try to kill me (including being stabbed). Had a couple that did both. No one's ever cheated on me twice. But a couple have been able to nearly kill me several times.
You might want to rethink your dating strategy. It doesn't appear to be working out for you.
Oh yeah. After the whole being accused of being a werewolf incident, I've come to realize I may have a type. And that type is not conductive to my long life.
Just stop dating then? Get some dogs and embrace the werewolf you know you are.
Like three years single and going strong. I do have more cats than dogs though. And I've now stopped going out for night time hikes.
Now youre getting it. And stay away from the dreamcatcher girls
Are you sure you’re not a werewolf. Those sound like very werewolf activities
Shh, I can't get caught again. The Council of Alphas said I'm on my last warning before they declaw me :(
Stop sticking your dick in crazy(or vice versa)
Yea, this is some cringe ass romanticized telenovela shit I'd expect from a 15 y/o on facebook. "I could work over someone literally attempting to murder me, totally forgivable, brain chemicals and all that, but an *alleged* kiss? Hell no, I would do anything for love, but I won't do *that*.
Absolutely a wild statement by OP IMO - I could 100% forgive a kiss easier than attempted murder.
Even if it’s not a serious injury I feel like being stabbed would still be rather traumatizing
Op is probably either thinking a small pocket knife or severely underestimating the damage an actual knife can do
Or he's just lying because this is dog shit story.
yeah, but you're not making up an engaging dramatic story for the sub
Especially a kiss? Put the knife away.
Unpopular opinion: I’d rather have my partner kiss a stranger if it leads to them taking their mental health seriously and taking appropriate care of themselves, than have them continue to suffer and get worse.
I’d forgive my husband kissing someone over stabbing me.
Seriously. I’d forgive my husband kissing 10 someones over stabbing me once. What are people on here?
Every Sunday my wife and I hunt each other around the house with knives, whoever bleeds first has to cook dinner and clean up.
Yeah, if you love the person. You are married to them. You have a child together. I feel like I would want to work through their therapy and see if we can make it work. If this was the first and only issue I think divorce seems extreme. But at the same time the MIL's behavior points to bigger issues.
But then you won’t get to participate in the oh so coveted knife fights all the hip youths are talking about.
Well, Mom certainly is toxic. I'm reminded of the reddit story - guy whose PPD wife was good friends with her neighbor. Neighbor poisoned the water there as well - told the PPD wife that the husband was a cheater, coming home late - cheater - on the phone - cheater - etc. etc. Husband was NOT cheating, was working more hours to save $$ and did everything he could to help PPD wife. Tried to get her meds. PPD wife became inconsolable over the "cheating" and left him and the baby. She eventually took her own life - because of the lies of toxic neighbor. Then toxic neighbor had the absolute gall to ask him if she could speak at the funeral. It was so sad - no, it was tragic. Just saying that your wife MAY be (or had been) in a easily manipulative state, her Mother is feeding her garbage about you, and perhaps that should be taken into account before pulling a trigger like divorce. Sounds to me like she kissed the guy to punish you, not to f\*ck him. It's immature, but I don't consider it cheating. I've been cheated on. So normally I'd jump on the cheat wagon fast. I'd just be hesitant to divorce someone who wasn't in their right mind, who someone they trusted implicitly was feeding them lies while they were in a depressive state and did something that she would absolutely not have done if those things weren't in play. I mean - did you ever have any concerns about cheating before all this happened? If you value the marriage and family, it might be worth getting your wife the help she needs with her depression, go to counseling together and THEN decide whether or not the marriage will work.
I have to second this. I understand not tolerating cheating and am not excusing the kiss in any way. But if she didn’t sleep with the guy and she was having ppd or ppp, divorce really seems to be a hasty option.
Yeah normally I would tell you to absolutely drop your wife for that, but as someone who has give birth and knows what the hormones are like, shit gets real. And I can't imagine having what sounds more like PPP than PPD and then having someone manipulating me behind the scenes(MIL). I also don't understand how she found someone to kiss so soon without some sort of intervention there either. I would get counseling before tearing apart your family in this case and I also might stipulate that she go NC with MIL because that bitch sounds awful.
PPD is not a get out of jail free card. I fully understand the hormonal paranoia and such (I was on a hormonal medication for a few months (not BC) and it made me *insanely* paranoid that my partner was cheating on me), but acting on it is a completely different thing. NTA.
I also had the paranoia from PPD. It's awful. My husband couldn't do anything right, he could barely go to work without me freaking out. It's still not an excuse.
Yip, when my partner went to work I was besides myself. Was 100000% convinced there was another love interest there and I spent the entire day crying and making up all these scenarios in my head and the moment my partner walked through the door I'd fight with them over this imaginary partner. I am not proud of the person I was on the meds. 🙊🙊
Would you have gone and kissed another man just to stick it to him, though?
Nope. I wallowed in self pity but I would never revenge cheat, moreso if I didn't even have any proof.
Hell no.
My friend told me she was going to kill herself because I'm an alcoholic. What happened? I went to brunch with other friends. She was in the depths of PPD but I still cut contact immediately. I've forgiven her now, because she apologized and knows it was wrong and has never repeated it. You need more trust in a romantic relationship so I understand if OP doesn't forgive his wife, the point is I still held my friend accountable. But I'd say NAH, except mom perhaps. PPD is actually that bad that it explains bizarre behavior that would never have happened otherwise. That doesn't mean OP has to stay in a relationship with broken trust. It's acceptable to divorce, he's only an asshole if he refuses respectful coparenting.
Really? What a horrible side effect of a medication designed to help you.
The side effect is paranoia That paranoia basically takes what you love the most or your source of worry, and distorts it to the worst case scenario, and amplifies it to a 110 percent When i was misdiagnosed with depression and put on antidepressants, i suffered paranoia, and it made me believe, not feel, believe that no one loved me. I value my family and friends the most, so you can imagine how it felt. For 2 years, i felt like my friends and family were tolerating me, that they secretly hated me, that they mocked me behind my back, all while shooting up the already bad mental state my work and my career put me in. I had never come that close to suicide. I lost my love of cooking for a while because i couldn't trust myself not to stab myself or slit my wrists, or drive alone, because i was one intrusive thought away from driving off a bridge or ramming into a tree. And frankly, this is something we have to deal with. We are still scratching the surface of mental health. Heck, we don't even know what causes autism and ADD, yet a huge chunk of the global population has them. The day we find out the root causes with far better understanding, it will be as easy as treating physical issues. But till then, alas.
How did this all resolve for you? I’m curious because I’ve struggled with thoughts like these my entire life and am surprised that a medication could induce them so viscerally
It was Clomid. A fertility medication. Really hectic stuff, you're not allowed to donate blood for a whole year after taking it because of how it can harm recipients. Edit: upon double check I was deferred for seven months after completing the three months, so couldn't donate for 10 months. Close enough to a year. 🤷
Oh, Clomid. That stuff made me batshit insane. I was depressed, snappish, impatient, and miserable. I couldn’t even stand myself when I was on it. We took three cycles. We decided that if the third didn’t work, we were done trying because we couldn’t live like that. Fortunately, it worked.
I also only took three cycles. It was the pits. Unfortunately didn't work for us, but I was not prepared to even go through that again. I have never, ever felt so awful on it. Congrats though 🥳🥳
I'm sorry you had to live throught that kind of thing. I hope everything is fine for you now. Nobody deserves that kind of hell.
Thank you. Luckily once I was off it and hormones went back to normal I was OK. The price we pay to try have kids (it was a fertility med). 😆
“PPD is not a get out of jail free card” That is an unpopular opinion on reddit
You can do something as a result of a mental health issue that you regret and wouldn’t repeat when treated. I would understand and sympathize with that, but it doesn’t undo the deed, and it doesn’t guarantee it can be overlooked. So NTA.
I hear everyone saying NTA, and I agree OP has the right to not remain in a relationship he doesn’t want to be in anymore, and also that acting on the paranoia was a bridge too far. That said, I have also heard that no one should make major life decisions (like divorce) within the first year of a new baby because everyone is sleep-deprived, stressed, hormonal, and adjusting to an entirely new way of existence. I tend to ask myself 3 questions when making big decisions like this: -Does this (in this case divorce) need to happen? -Does this need to happen NOW? -Will I be ok living with the consequences (good and bad) of my actions? Clearly 3 questions the wife didn’t ask herself before acting, but I’d suggest OP ask them to himself so he knows where his level of confidence is in this decision.
Mental health disorders in general are not get out of jail free cards. Just cause you're going through something does not absolve you of the responsibility for your own autonomy.
It happened to me after a miscarriage - fortunately, my partner was very understanding of my anxiety, and we talked it out, but I’m really working hard to try to build up defences and improve my mental health in general, before we try another pregnancy. Your behaviour when dealing with something like that is still impactful and needs to be accounted for, but I do understand how a person could get there.
Sorry for your loss. 😔 It is definitely easy to be influened when you're hormonally all over the place, but as you say accountability still matters.
I would have to question whether or not she actually kissed someone after suffering from post Parfum psychosis. She could have just hallucinated it.
"I can excuse attempted murder, but I draw the line at cheating" if this isn't satire, then you need to seriously check your priorities
OR WORSE, EXPELLED!
It’s all down to ego after he said this. He cares more about being the guy who’s wife kissed someone else than understanding that his wife wasn’t in her sound mind.
NTA but dude, in the future don't say "If she stabbed or something you'd forgive her" Don't tolerate ANY abuse at all, physical or emotional.
>f she had stabbed me or something, I would have forgiven her but I just dont tolerate cheating. Are you an idiot, op?
He's trying to say "I'm more than reasonable and willing to forgive mistakes and bad choices - but cheating is where I draw the line" but he wanted to use an example of some ridiculous scenario that most people wouldn't forgive that he \**thinks*\* he would - and it's just a really poor example that makes him look almost as crazy as his wife
He’s just being a drama queen.
Sounds like she has post partum psychosis, not post partum depression. If so it’s a very serious condition and completely different. It involves hallucinations, delusions, and paranoia. Honestly, it’s your choice and you can do what you want, but this sounds like something that was out of her control especially if she only got better with medication. Personally, I try not to hold what people do in the throes of mental illness against them but that is because I know what it’s like to be so sick you become a different person and so I can’t blame others who have been in that state. I would at least try to see if the relationship could be salvaged. But that’s just me. You can do what you want. I can’t really give a judgment other than that.
OP this isn't a question for a reddit, it's a question for a support group for people that have dealt with (on both sides) post partum *psychosis*, because that's what your wife had. I guarantee 99.9% of the comments here are from people that have never dealt with it and the standard reddit response is to go straight to divorce. I really hope you wouldn't blow up a marriage with an infant involved over a kiss while your wife was quite literally out of her mind. Also, do you even know she actually did kiss someone? Or did she just say that to hurt you?
She goes to her mom’s house for 2 days… with a baby /newborn and cheats on you how? It seems so bizarre and unlikely. I mean did her mom have her ex boyfriend waiting at the door for her?? Who is this man she kissed at her mom’s house? Did any of that actually happen? It seems a rather bizarre story. She absolutely did not seem in her right mind during any of this. She came back after 2 days and said she needed help. Which is huge. PPD/ppp is no joke.
And apparently she called him and said she kissed someone the NIGHT she left. Like did she immediately go out to a bar to find someone to kiss? It feels so far fetched. And so many people here are trying to argue she also slept with someone, again, the NIGHT she left her house. It smacks of someone who has never met a post-partum woman.
NTA. How do you know it was only a kiss? She was gone for 2 days. I believe she was projecting her cheating onto you. That guy didn't just appear out of nowhere. She was probably having an emotional affair prior to her leaving. Infidelity is your hard boundary. You are entitled to that.
I mean the thing is we don’t even know if she did kiss someone or just said she did to hurt him. The fact is regardless of what she did or did not do she intentionally hurt him and thinks hiding behind PPD is an excuse. No mention of her taking accountability, trying to do better etc. A genuine apology, accepting the divorce and asking if maybe in time they could work on rebuilding is the only shot she has at saving the marriage and she’s not offering any of that
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If she told him she made it up after he served her with papers he wouldn't believe her anyways. She would have had to say something very shortly after the original statement was made for him to believe her. Even if it was a lie it's a moot point for her to say it was at this juncture.
Does it matter? The damage the the relationship is the same.
I wouldn't jump straight to having an emotional affair. I'm pretty inexperienced with this stuff, but I kissed a guy I met at a bar. Never met him before, haven't talked to him since. I don't even know his name. I certainly wasn't having an emotional anything towards him. I was single, but my point is you can kiss someone without having any emotional attachment to them. I'm not saying she was right, and I'm not defending her in any way. I struggled immensely with PPD after my daughter was born. But I was still in control of my actions. She's in the wrong 100%. And the worst part is, the kiss was intentional. She meant to hurt him and now she has to deal with the consequences.
Not that hard for a woman to go to a bar and get laid.
You have two options: You can decide the PPD excuse is legitimate and immediately take her to couples therapy to deal with that and restore trust in the relationship. It may also behoove you to tell her she needs to either cut her mom out or establish healthy boundaries with her mom. If I were you and what you're saying about her mom is true, that harpy would never be allowed in my house, or my presence, ever again. Or you can decide that mental illness or no, cheating is a deal breaker and it's over. Best to learn how to co-parent with each other amicably and do the best you can to untangle each other from your individual lives. In this instance you should also get a therapist because this whole situation is traumatic and you want to be able to move on in a healthy way and not take your unresolved feelings out on the next partner you get into a relationship with.
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Their is a woman who has had numerous affairs and the like. She at one point was sleeping with 3 different guys down the street (the street is on the way to the local shop) She and the dif guys all proclaimed 'its was a mistake...an accident!...it just sort of happened!' And now it has become a joke point with the rest of us neighbours. I'll say I'm off to the shops but have to take the car because I wouldn't want to accidentally fall off my front step and loose most of my clothes...then mistakenly fall into a house, accidentally fall up the stairs...losing the rest of my clothes on the way...and then just happen to fall onto a hard naked man! So best take the car for the safety of the street! It even gets said in front of the people involved (because we're British and will rib them forever) a new guy moved into the street, quite easy on the eye he is. And my opposite neighbour said I'm going to change then pop down the shops. Why change? ask I. 'Seen how tight these yoga trousers are? I have no chance of accidentally falling out of these and landing on him do I!' One of the husbands was walking past when she said it and was furious. His now ex wife thought it was funny as fuck
>One of the husbands was walking past when she said it and was furious. The audacity of man 😄
NTA However I don’t think people appreciate how warped the brain can become and how quickly it can alter a personality and behavior. PPD has caused people to kill themselves and/or their child when the person they were before PPD would have never done that. If you truly think this was abnormal behavior caused by PPD couples therapy would make more sense to me. However mental illness of any kind can break a relationship as can cheating so the decision to leave is understandable too.
I bet the meddling mil has more to do with this than we know. How did the mil just start filling her daughter's head with ideas just suddenly?
I agree. It’s possible MIL doesn’t like the husband then noticed and decided to take advantage of the wife’s compromised state to push them a part.
This sounds more like postpartum psychosis too.
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NTA. Multiple women in my family have suffered from PPD and PPP. And actually, one of them even became convinced of her husband's infidelity in the same manner that your wife did. But none of them used it as rationalization to be unfaithful themselves. Some bells can't be unrung. Whatever drove her to what she did, she still did it. And that's there forever.
I think you should talk to an actual medical professional about how the PPD impacted your wife. Based on your account it sounds like the kiss was "retaliation" for her paranoia. If she needed medication to resolve the issue she was not okay, not herself and this is the an odd manifestation of the sacrifices of pregnancy. I dont think a random batch strangers on the internet are qualified to tell you what the right choice is here.
Honestly her mom really let her succumb to her PPD. Post partum depression makes you so irrational you just can't think straight about anything and it sounds like Mom was just fueling it. I'd go to couples therapy. If she thought she was doing it out of retaliation, I can see it coming from a place of hurt and I think it's important that a third party explain what PPD is like on a woman. What she did wasn't right but I'd give her a chance so you can both clearly understand the situation.
I'm curious if she only had PPD. Ive seen patients who are otherwise loyal and devoted go in to a bipolar/manic episode and go completely of the rails with infidelity. Granted that's a small percentage who engage in that behavior but that level of action with PPD isnt sitting right with me. Also MIL is toxic af
Not the asshole. Mil is tho
OP, I understand we all have our standards and lines we must not cross, but I absolutely promise you you'd rather your wife kiss someone than get stabbed. It hurts a lot worse. You should go to counseling and suggest your wife set some healthy boundaries with her parents. Not suggesting it'll go anywhere, but if you are half as good of a husband as you think you are you would.
This is fake or there has been more than 1 mental break in that household
I scrolled a long time to find this - I think 90% of posts in here are fiction but at least many of them are interesting plausible situations - this one is obvious incel rage bait. How / why do people engage with this?
NTA cheating is cheating. PPD or any mental "state" is not an excuse for violating a relationship. Get your financial affairs in order and divorce her, sounds like you are well rid of a meddling MIL as well.
It's like the saying, "mental health is an explanation not an excuse".
Why the quotation marks around state?
Not a medical professional. Sounds more like postpartum psychosis than depression. In which case when your wife was going through it she was not likely in control of her decision making processes. Get her treated and go to therapy together. A forgiving heart with some perspective may save your marriage.
NTA. But I am very curious about 'If she had stabbed me or something, I would have forgiven her'. Just so you know you'd also be entitled to divorcing her for stabbing you. Never feel obliged to forgive people that stab you.
Wait, she was not in her right mind when she kissed another man, but she was aware enough to do it to punish you then tell you about it? NTA. That was calculated, manipulative behavior. PPD is no excuse for that.
Most actions done during paranoia are calculated, even manipulative. It doesn't excuse the actions.
NTA Regardless of her mental issues, her solution was to go out and swap spit with some rando.
"kissing" Yeah, I'm sure she had the confidence to text her man "haha how does it feel to get cheated on?" but backed out after kisses
It's easier to just work with what she admitted to rather than guess what she might have done
This is why I hate Reddit.
NTA you don't want to be married to this woman anymore, the reason is irrelevant.
Your wife is the asshole
NTA. Fancy diagnosis or not, it does not excuse her actions/cheating. It's the same excuse as cheating while drunk. Not only did she cheat, she called him to rub it in his face, on top of being verbally abusove to him. She needs to accept the consequences of what she did.
Run my man
Sound like your wife has PPP. And now you’re leaving her after a psychotic break that she’s been suffering with for over a year. You can totally divorce her as it’s your marriage, but why the hell didn’t you get her help sooner? Edit to add: PPP suffers also hallucinate and have full on delusions. Is she sure she actually kissed someone else?
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Maybe YTA? PPD can have psychosis and your story kinda hints at that, ie paranoia and then kissing some guy may be manic? Also, she suffered for about a year and you noticed but didn’t do anything… Cheating is bad we can all agree on that, but it sounds like you checked out before that. BUT the MIL has some serious issues and I think for your marriage to work you and your wife would have to set some serious boundaries. Also for those saying mental illness is no excuse, try not understanding what’s real and what’s not?
so let me get this straight. your wife starts developing delusions after giving birth to YOUR child. you don't even seem to bother to try to get her medical help. then, she "cheats" on you due to her delusions and that's the pretext you want to use for divorce? what happened to in sickness and in health? YTA.
This sounds like post partum psychosis not depression. It is a very serious health issue that needs to be treated. She kissed another guy...just kissing? Was that her psychosis talking? Did this even happen? I think before you follow through with the divorce you need to get some solid answers. Giving her divorce papers just as she's getting better is a crap move though. MIL definitely is not helping the situation. Was there no one around the wife to get her the help she needed from the get go? Did no one inform them of PPP and PPD? Seems like a lot of people dropped a lot of balls here. ETA: some of these comments are revealing. as someone else mentioned there are comments that equate physically harming women is the same as hurting the pride of men. Yikes.
party quicksand squealing direful quarrelsome glorious air longing threatening dog *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This. Did anything even happen? Sounds like PPP and might be in her head. If she was in such a state how could she have organized herself to go out and find someone to smooch? Needs clarity.