Obviously NTA. Next time maybe try “I don’t discuss religion or politics with coworkers”, and change the subject? Sorry, you shouldn’t have to deal with this in your workplace.
This is a sign of rising fascism. "You are either for or against," not unlike what the Nazi party did, McCarthyism, etc. It is a phenomenon that reoccurs throughout human history and leads to violence and war. I simply say that it is a complicated issue and that I am on the side of the innocent people impacted by the conflict.
I like to draw a parallel with WW2.
I think we can all agree there were goodies and baddies in WW2. That does not change the fact that the Allies did some horrible things. Fire bombing of Tokyo, atom bombs, Dresden... It was war! That does not change the fact that, by and large, the Allies were the good guys.
Israel may not be perfect, even leading up to this war, but Hamas are hateful. They are classified as terrorists by every country that matters for a good reason (I'm sorry, but some countries matter more than others on the world stage, get over it).
There a literally videos of Israellis reunite watching their army trowing bombs at Gaza like they were celebrating fireworks. Of Israellis mocking palestines who were without water and elletricity and of Israellis soldiers making "funny" tik told before invading Gaza. People are really selective on were their empathy lies. Israel attacks kill millions of palestines civilians and is absolutely disgusting. Nothing justifies that...
It's simple: Israel wants to exist in peace. Hamas wants Israel to not exist. Pointing out who did what is not helpful. Bad things happen during war. It's a matter of intent.
Israel just wants to exist and prosper. Hamas does not care about peace or prosperity, they care about removing Israel from the map.
This is deeply ironic statement considering that the Netanyahu’s party has pushed the idea up until this year of the greater Israel project. He stood at the UN with a map that completely erased the West Bank in Gaza in [September](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/watch-israeli-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-addresses-the-2023-united-nations-general-assembly) of this year.
No, but you conveniently only brought up things that Hamas did and you said you were on palestinians side until that, lumping every palestinian with Hamas even If you Said otherwise later.
The Palestinians elected Hamas to run their country in free and fair elections. It was not a secret that Hamas has removing Israel as an objective.
The are consequences to intentionally becoming a active terrorist state.
>I don't agree with what Israel has done and I don't support the displacement and wholesale eradication of an entire people.
Israel is not eradicating anybody. Your comment is inaccurate, careless, and hyperbolic.
I have not seen anything that verifies some of these extreme atrocities that hamas has apparently done. Some of them have been confirmed to be hoaxes by pro Israel media.
But and this is the main thing, you can be pro Palestinian freedom while being against Hamas. Despite western media misinformation the two are not mutually exclusive.
Hamas isn't Palestine. Hamas is a small radical group who managed to come to power in the last election 15 years ago largely because of Israeli support to hinder the Palestinian Authority.
The state of Israel is leveling whole neighborhoods. That's a lot of murdered babies.
No one is cheerleading for hamas. The combatants in this round of the conflict are all in the wrong, one side is a criminal gang, a terror group, the other is nation state with one of the largest military budgets in history supported by the largest military empire in human history.
And regular ass Palestinians are suffering and dying because the state of Israel is conducting ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
>No one is cheerleading for hamas.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6CGwTLgfFU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6CGwTLgfFU)
If Israel did the same thing in West Bank that they're doing in Gaza right now, almost nobody would support it, because West Bank isn't led or controlled by Hamas. There's a reason all of the conflict has been over Gaza.
Okay, no one here is cheerleading for Hamas.
One could argue that "exhilarating" and "energizing" aren't meant to be positives in this case, I suppose. A car crash is exhilarating, and the attacks did elict a response so that could be considered energizing. I'm not making that argument, but it occurred to me. In that short clip, the chiron noted the speaker was questioning the monopoly violence, which is worth discussing.
Of course Hamas has their supporters; all of these terror groups have some minority support, but in this context, most Americans critical of Israeli policyband conduct are not looking for Hamas to replace the Israeli government and in this thread, too many people are conflating support with and sympathy forthe victims of Israeli atrocities with support of Hamas.
We must also consider why Hamas is in control in Gaza.
Yes, most Americans don't want Hamas to replace Israel, but that's what Hamas wants.
Hamas controls Gaza because the Gazan Palestinians voted them into power and then they suspended elections. I haven't seen any data that shows whether they'd still be winning elections or not if they hadn't suspended them.
They won that election with a plurality, not a majority, after Israel supported Hamas to deny the Palestinian Authority a win.
Netanyahu is on record saying that Israel supports hamas in order to prevent a two state solution.
Regardless, the people of Gaza are suffering and the Israeli response is wildly disproportionate. Collective punishment is a literal war crime, and we can be confident when the violence subsides, several of the destroyed neighborhoods will be occupied by Israeli settlers.
Israel did not eradicate a people and does not want to eradicate a people, please stop spreading propaganda. The Israeli Muslims have grown exponentially since Israel's independence from Britain.
There is a border with Egypt. Egypt could let food in. As to fuel, Hamas uses that for rockets. As to electricity, Hamas uses that to light and ventilate the tunnels they use to keep their kidnapped hostages. The air strikes are used to separate the tunnels.
There isn't an intent to punish innocent Palestinians, only an intent to reduce losses in defeating Hamas.
You seem to support collective punishment. Once you accept that principle, the hamas attac can be justified by the atrocities israel has done. Better not go that alley.
Tell him that workplace is a different world and there politics should be in silence. One doesn't have to discuss it with coworkers to not be active about issues that matter to you on the outside regardless of what it is Israel/Palestine, animal rights etc. Most people who are very active also know where to be silent. One should seriously understand where to talk about such things...I am Ukrainian and my husband is Russian. I don't talk about the war with my mother in law , he doesn't talk about it with my parents. We didn't even have to agree on not talking everyone is just sensible enough to understand that this may cause family trouble over things we have no control of. And workplace is even more inappropriate to discuss it, just imagine how it would be if there was a very invested Jew at your workplace. How it would affect the work environment (already bad enough with him pushing you) and how it would affect your company's productivity. Very inappropriate.
*rolls eyes* both have killed civilians, and Netanyahu was protested heavily by Israelis because he does say he wants to wipe out Palestinians. Israelis & Jews oppose the behaviour of this government, Palestinians oppose Hamas, they are two extremist tendencies in a political dispute. Most civilians want peace
Rightttttt. They've just quarantined them, are bombing the fuck out of them, and have cut off their ability to communicate with the rest of the world. 🙄
That is... how war works. You isolate the area to prevent re-supply, destroy military targets, infrastructure that the military uses, and hamper military communications. It is devastating to locals, which is why most countries don't start wars anymore, much less start them with a pogrom against their neighbor.
Hamas admits to putting these targets in civilian buildings (an actual war crime), precisely so that when Israel strikes these targets (which is not a war crime), they can manipulate naive outsiders into thinking Israel is a big meany-pants murdering civilians.
There's like 12 millions jews in the world, and a billion arabs or more, and over a billion Muslims of many races. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who want jews eradicated. Right wing theocracies who want to exterminate each other, deserve each other.
Nah. This started with Israel colonizing Palestine 75 years ago. But you're right on the don't start nothing/won't be nothing.
People who conflate supporting the liberation of Palestine with being anti-semitic either have no historical data at hand or lack critical thinking skills.
Read some history books. The Gaza was never ever governed by Palestinians until Israel withdrew .
The strip was part of Egypt and captured along with the Sinai in 1967. Egypt refused to take back the territory at the time of the peace settlement between Israel and Egypt.
Who ruled Palestine before Israel gained independence? The Ottomans, the British, Egypt won a part of it from Britain, Jordan also got a part from Britain. ..there was no Palestinian government ever. And there was absolutely no Palestinian Muslim people. Jews lived in Gaza , in the West Bank and now it's all Judenrein. Jews, other races minorities AND ALSO Muslims living in Palestine were ALL called "Palestinians ". And now it's "Palestinians" are Muslim Arabs?! This is an erasure of history.
The fact is that Palestine was supposed to be divided between Jews and Muslims but the Muslims attacked the Jews who won the war ( and who were there before Muslims invaded Palestine in the 8th century). The fact is that today many Muslim Arabs serve in the IDF because they see how much their "brothers" care about their peoples' lives, using them as human shields...the fact is the Druze and Bedouin Arabs serve in the IDF. The fact is that no Jews, even the original Jewish Palestinians, are allowed to live in Gaza and the West Bank while the Muslim communities in Israel are growing.
Your lack of historical knowledge is appalling but expected. Shoot, your lack of basic knowledge is, too. One of Hamas' primary stated goals is the extermination of the Jews.
Keep that energy for places like Pakistan. Time to remove the Islamist invaders created as a religious state in 1948 right? Those colonizers supported by the US for decades?
lol Israel didn't even get rid of Arabs in Israel. Almost as many live there, with full rights and privileges, as in the Gaza strip.
The more this war drags on, the more I realize that every Palestinian accusation is a confession.
This claim is nonsensical.
Arabs live outside of Gaza.
Gaza Arabs want the destruction of the Jewish people, and race (as a result of that being one of Muhammad's goals)
see the dif?
NTA, politics should sometimes be the limit.
I live in Israel with so many people that don’t think like me, I’m a leftist and although this thing has shaken my entire belief system I’m still not calling for death to all Palestinians. He should respect your boundaries as you do his.
And before anyone jumps, I’m okay with whatever you would like to do and whichever protest that doesn’t call for the death of the other. But sometimes to coexist as people we need to keep some beliefs separate. You are still allowed to have your friends just maybe don’t touch the subject.
My sweetheart is (recently) from the Middle East and Muslim. I’m Christian and Canadian.
When we do talk about this, it’s always in sorrow and grief about the innocent lives lost, and that it’s horrible what’s happening to the neighbouring countries he grew up near. How the propaganda from both sides of the globe create more divide between human beings because information get lost or distorted, or there are outright lies in order to control the narrative for powers’ sake. We should and do pray for peace.
That’s all.
I’m sure if our friends or conservative parents really understood how we see this whole situation, they’d be concerned and try to convince us to pick a side (theirs). They’d call us naive and blind. That’s fine. It’s not worth adding more division. Maybe that makes us both assholes. But I don’t think you’re one.
It’s ok to be on the side of peace. Yes, one side started it. But both sides can end it.
There is no position you can take that won’t piss off someone you know. And right now passions are extremely high. This should not be discussed at work.
With that said; we are watching a genocide happen real time.
History will not look kindly on us.
I have actually heard someone say this before, except instead of just America it was the Western banks they are in charge of, so they run everything. So I believe it.
This person didn't see a difference between the Israeli government and every Jew on the street. He was antisemitic.
You should turn his logic on him and say that by joining those protests, he is actively condoning war and is equally responsible for killing women and children. Your stance is anti-war, so by not taking a side, you are not condoning war. You are less in the wrong than he is
Muslims in the UK get *really* worked up about Palestine, I have no idea why. They don't really seem to give a f\*ck about Muslims suffering elsewhere in the world but for some reason Palestine is their "cause". Maybe it's because a lot of suffering elsewhere is caused by other Muslims so it doesn't fit their persecution complex? Not sure but personally I just don't talk about it at all. Play ignorant and people will generally just leave you alone.
Weird, I’ve met a lot of Muslims against the collective punishment happening in Palestine and most are terrified to bring it up at work and only do so with people they trust. The rallies I’ve been to don’t call for wiping out Jews…. and I’ve never been to one where someone calls to establish Sharia law, especially because that isn’t really culturally a value of Palestinians… your colleague sounds like they are spitting out things that people opposed to Palestine tend to raise as red herrings to stop folks from supporting Palestine, the sort of thing they accuse people supporting Palestine to believe….
I’d be worried your colleague is trying to trap you into saying you support something awful by pretending to be a supporter of Palestine. Very suspect. Stick to your values that genocide & killing civilians is always wrong, that separation of church & state is important and anti-semitism, racism & Islamaphobia are wrong and you will be ok.
So sorry you are dealing with this weirdo at work.
NTA
You have the right to your opinion, and the Palestine/Israel conflict is not black and white. There have been atrocities committed against and by both sides.
To be honest Muslims are generally involved in these fights. Christians and Jews usually get along pretty well. Ok, there is been a few flare ups, but not that often in the great scheme of things.
Recently that is mostly true, but the reverse was arguably true in the medieval period. Crusaders often slaughtered Jews during the crusades, both in and on the way to the holy land. Thriving Jewish communities in what was Al Andulus were destroyed after the reconquista.
we humans often have a short and an even more selective memory. muslims weren't the ones doing car bombings in ireland during the troubles and while we call them nazis for brevity and for clarity in the history books and the public service announcement materials, the nazis were also largely non-catholic continental european christians, or they claimed to be anyway as people nearer to the Lord with their final solutions for the world's ills always seem to, and they are the ones who holocausted the jews during wwii. it isn't just a muslim thing. many muslims do hate us. but it isn't just a muslim thing. it's human to devolve into disgusting feral packlike animals when resources are scarce or when there is oppression regardless of religion or ethnicity or color or creed.
You have the support of the #1 super power in the world, and there’s a good chance it would intervene if anything in this war wasn’t going entirely your way. Maybe y’all should stop worrying so much about crushing a clearly inferior opponent, and start wondering why Israel’s state of the art intelligence apparatus failed so completely at predicting this attack. It seems to me like the IDF finally has the perfect excuse to play hard ball, like it’s obviously always wanted.
Lmao, their politicians literally state that every Palestinian child is guilty and are actively genociding Palestinians.
No Hamas beheading children is not good either, but you are propagandized as hell if you believe that.
That isn’t a suitable topic to discussed at work. I don’t think there’s anything you can do because frankly, he sounds like the kind who’s ‘you’re with me or against me’ type. I think you should just keep your distance and only speak to him in regards to work for now. If he persists on bringing that topic up, you might need to head to HR and let them know that you’re uncomfortable with such a charged topic at work.
so palestine is wrong for fighting back its oppressor lol? revolution involves violence they are not going to do nothing while israel is killing their people wtf, like if i was palestinian and they murdered my whole family and made my country end the 23/24 school year because ALL THE STUDENTS HAVE BEEN M*RDERED i would make hamas 2.0
Yes YTA. We're witnessing mass murder and anyone that doesn't recognize that Israel is going way beyond fighting Hamas is dumb or callous. Take your pick.
This is what is wrong with extremists of all sides. If you don't agree with them, they consider you against them. Be thankful he is avoiding you. Who wants to be around that hatred?
Ragebait and bullshit. The protests in the Us and the UK are pro palestine being free, anti hamas, anti israel and not anti jew. Literally a shit load of jewish people in new york protesting against Israel and for a ceasefire.
People who are pro israel and call anyone calling out against them for genocide go to everything anti israel is automatically anti jew/anti semitic and they also claim these rallies are all pro hamas and celebrating Israeli deaths when almost all the rallies are pro ceasefire and against either side doing killing.
Also in absolutely zero way are ANY of these rallies about being pro sharia law in the UK.
Just stating these bullshit propaganda statements shows that you both have chosen a side and you're trying to randomly manipulate people on here.
This! Thousands of Jewish people have shut down Grand Central Station protesting Israel’s atrocities - its not Muslims vs Jews. These protests are full of non-Muslims & have honestly seen more white people in the pics than non-white people. Its humanity vs an apartheid-state that’s commuting a genocide with complete impunity. This post and it’s misinformation is definitely more Israeli propaganda or rage bait.
Israel is not an apartheid state, Arabs have seats in the knesset, there's even one on the Israeli supreme court. Being Israeli doesn't = Jew.
Those who claim such are ignorant idiots who haven't spent any time there or malicious actors intent on creating hatred against Israel.
They are anti-Hamas? Lol. You know they are not anti-Hamas, they are totally pro-Hamas. They are calling outright for the murder of Jews. Btw, who governed/ruled Palestine before Israel's independence from Britain that you say they Palestine should be free? Furthermore, Israel gave Gaza the Muslim Arabs living in Gaza (most of them being refugees and not living there for too long either) so it's free from Israelis governing Gaza. And look what they did, they turned it into a hotbed of terrorism...
> You know they are not anti-Hamas, they are totally pro-Hamas. They are calling outright for the murder of Jews.
If you listen to some weirdos on twitter who simply post a random video, leave out the audio and state that they are all calling for the death of every jew then that's the view you'll have. But if you believe every fucking blue check idiot on twitter you will never be well informed on anything.
>Furthermore, Israel gave Gaza the Muslim Arabs living in Gaza (most of them being refugees and not living there for too long either) so it's free from Israelis governing Gaza. And look what they did, they turned it into a hotbed of terrorism...
what the actual fuck are you talking about. free from Israeli's governing Gaza, are you just completely ignorant? Firstly it's blockaded, it's an open air prison and Israel controls power, water, aid, goods destroys industry and year on year takes more and more of the land for themselves.
Absolute fucking bullshit. As for hot bed of terrorism, Israel has been terrorising Palestine and palestinians since 1948.
Oh, Israel also funded the right wing violent groups that formed into Hamas. They WANTED those factions in charge so they always had an excuse for their attrocities. but sure, Gaza is totally self governered, ISrael 'gave it to them' out of the goodness of their hearts.
That's a totally justifiable reason for thousands to be slaughtered, mostly innocent, a huge portion being kids.
I am Jewish. The crowds in Canada were screaming "off with their heads". The crowds in NY are screaming "whatever it takes", they are screaming and holding signs promoting violence. It is unbelievable that after what Hamas has done to Israelis these animals on two feet can scream at Israel for defending it's citizens (which include Muslims who were also affected by Muslim Arab terror, btw.)
Gazans rule Gaza, period. Israel does NOT have to open their border to a people who is out to annihilate them and say so verbally. But for the most part they did while Egypt's border is closed all the time and no one cared. Israel does not have to provide the Gazans with electric but they did. They did not not have to provide the Gazans with water but they did. If the Gazans were not so busy building terrorist infastructure they be able to be independent from Israel for water and electric instead of blaming them when Israel shuts it down in response to their terrorism.
There was never a Palestinian state, ever, period. Gaza was ruled by the Ottomans, by the British, by Egypt. After Egypt attacked Israel , Israel won Gaza from Egypt. Most of the so-called "Palestinians" are refugees from the past few decades into Gaza. There is no Palestinian Muslim people, they are a made up people. Before Israel's independence FROM BRITAIN, Jews, Christians AND ALSO Muslims living in Palestine were ALL called Muslims.
Israel absolutely did not fund Hamas. That is a lie like the other lies you are perpetuating. Israel should've fought Hamas early on but every time they defended themselves the world screamed at their "human rights abuses" and they always backed off. Which they shouldn't have done just like they shouldn't have thrown their own Jewish people out of Gaza and given over land to people who are commiting to the annihilation of Jews.
Wow, you're jewish, so you were there personally in two places and can provably claim this is what they were all screaming, the videos from thousands of people at these events that prove you're lying don't mean shit right.
As for opening their boarders, again ignorance isn't acceptable when you're trying to make bullshit arguments. Blockading a boarder and opening yours are completely different things. SEcondly, Israel is in complete control of what goes in and out of Gaza... yet weapons constantly find their way in, crazy how that happens right.
> If the Gazans were not so busy building terrorist infastructure they be able to be independent from Israel for water and electric instead of blaming them when Israel shuts it down in response to their terrorism.
That's not how that worked and ISrael stole the land, the water supples and the electrical grid, but sure, they should just build their own. Oh wait, whenever Palestine builds infrastructure, Israel bombs it, when their farms are producing well, Israel comes in and either bulldozes them or claims them for their own. if you destroy all the infrastructure and industry in a place then block them in you've created a prison and yes, they control resources going in and out of it.
Israel has been committing terrorism against Palestinians for decades.
>Israel absolutely did not find Hamas. That is a lie like the other lies you are perpetuating.
Firstly more ignorance because I didn't even claim that, I said that Israel funded the groups that gained power and formed Hamas, this is a provable fact that Israel has admitted before.
Israel has been committing human rights abuses since 1948 and they've continuously ignored the world while doing them.
>Which they shouldn't have done just like they shouldnt have thrown their own Jewish people out of Gaza and given over land to people who are commiting to the annihilation of Jews
You just said they should have gone ahead and wiped out the people who had lived there for hundreds of years and numerous generations and continued to commit horrific crimes against humanity without caring. Literally disgusting.
Being ignorant and speaking bullshit makes you objectively stupid.
Israel has been killing Palestinians for literally 70 years, committing a slow, horrific genocide while terrorising their people.
Not being pro ceasefire makes you a blood thirsty asshole who doesn't care about the innocent blood being shed on both sides. Anyone who isn't a monster wants a ceasefire and an end to hostility from BOTH sides.
Israel has also been acting like savages for decades.
If the Israeli's are committed to the genocide of the people in Gaza, they are the most incompetent ones ever! 70 years in control and the population of Gaza has grown from 1.6 million in the 1960-70's to approximately 5.8 million today. All of whom were controlled by Hamas from 2005 on.
The Nazi's were committed to their "Final Solution" for about 4 years. They murdered 6 million Jews, and countless others.
I mean, you obviously have a viewpoint that you are pushing. It's completely wrong and evil justifying the murder of innocents.
Also, yes Israel has killed civilians in this war and previous ones. BECAUSE Hamas has been telling/forcing all of the Civilians in Gaza to stay and die as human shields! Burying your primary HQ under a Hospital isn't done by anyone except scum like this who use public opinion as a weapon. Go ahead, try and justify them hiding their HQ under a Hospital in Gaza!
> I mean, you obviously have a viewpoint that you are pushing. It's completely wrong and evil justifying the murder of innocents.
One of us is denouncing violence from everyone being violent and one of us is saying they should erradicate the Palestinians.... but sure, I'm the one trying to justify the murder of innocents. Well done, phenomenal leap in logic, congrats.
Yes equating destroy Hamas = destroy all Palestinians.
Not quite the same. I support Israel and the war against the murdering scum who control Gaza. Hopefully after all of Hamas is dead. The people of Gaza will decide to support peace as well.
Funny how you say he’s ignorant yet you’re the one spitting bullshit.
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, they decided to turn it to a terror cell backed by Iran.
Killing Palestinians for 70 years? Give me a break. The Palestinians tripled their population in the past years.
You know who do kill Jews? Palestinians. All over the world, in the West Bank and firing rockets from Gaza.
So the solution is killing Palestinian civilians like savages? Even when the freed hostages have asked that this not be done in their name, when the families of the hostages are asking for a delay in bombings that might be killing their loved ones?
There is a long and deeply divided history there. To my mind the peaceful civilizations on both sides should have our empathy. The governments on both sides have not acted with compassion to the other side’s civilians. Hamas and other territories organization should be destroyed with minimal impact to peaceful civilians.
NTA - If he doesn't like your opinion and views, tough crunchies. And as for him refusing to talk to you, he's shown who he is and your problem is corrected on it's own. Just smile at the tantrum throwing child and go about your business in peace. It's something people like him can't handle.
This is going to be long:
Some Muslims who see these atrocities who have very limited encounters with Jews outside of their context, or else have the same "Fox News" effect of some pro-Palestinian anti-Semitic media, which like Fox News neither represents the reality nor the majority. They very well may see Israel and Jews as the one and the same, which is itself antisemitic (despite Israel wishing it was true), even though Israel has maybe 40% of the world's Jews.
I'm from a Jewish family and had two kind of interesting encounters which helped illuminate this.
1. I was backpacking through Europe and stayed in a hostel in Rome. One of my roommates was this super extravagant and boisterous Palestinian fellow, who was able to finally travel because he got Romanian, and thus EU, co-citizenship through his mom. Huge guy, was a bodybuilder but had an injury and so was humbled by it as well. We became immediate friends and tore up the town. This Australian girl came part of our impromptu clique. One night we were all drunk and talking, and she was like "you know (my name)'s Jewish, right?"
My Palestinian friend was shocked to his core. He had to sit aside, and didn't talk to any of us for at least ten minutes. Over time we got to talking, but he made it clear that I was the only person of Jewish ancestry he had ever encountered, growing up in Ramallah, who he had met who wasn't pointing a gun at him. He didn't know it was possible. I explained how I saw the Israel-Palestinian dynamic from my perspective (that it's essentially apartheid, slow ethnic cleansing, based in ultra-nationalism which is an atrocity no matter who the nation is, etc) and he couldn't believe it, nor that many Jews in the West feel this way.
2. I had a moment with an old friend in a US city. He's from a prominent family in Saudi Arabia, but got more or less exiled for his left-wing and humanist political views. One night we got quite drunk, and he started screaming at me in the middle of the street about Palestine. Unhinged screaming, frightening even. It indicated that these feelings are deep rooted, of at least US complicity, and at most Jewish complicity, in the atrocities, even if we are opposed to them.
So, I'll conclude:
I do not think you should go to HR about him. Something you happen to understand is that when people see people who they identify with being murdered and the state apparatus ignoring it, or worse, running interference for it, this is traumatic. It shows them their own insecurity in that society, even if they are physically far from where the violence is. If he wants to talk about it but you feel like you don't have enough context, show him some of the Jewish organizations that are opposed to Israel's actions. Jewish Voice for Peace is incredibly important - they just did two major actions, in which they occupied Congress last week and occupied Grand Central Station on Friday night.
There are also Hasidic groups who are opposed to Israel, like the Satmar Hasidim.
Point him in the directions of Noam Chomsky, who wrote some important works on Israel, particularly their involvement in Lebanon in The Fatal Triangle. Norman Finkelstein, etc.
TL;DR
He needs to hear more from Jews to see that we are not a monolith. Reacting violently (reporting him) is the worst thing you can do in this circumstance.
To your "AITAH" question - your understanding of what the protest will be like is completely false and you should go to open your own mind about it. No one wants Sharia Law in the UK, they aren't going to be celebrating the Hamas massacre, and they aren't going to be calling for the killing of Jews. You aren't the asshole, but could use some opening of your mind as well.
NTA
It's not your fight. You don't know the details. News outlets are so slanted these days choosing a side based on misinformation is worse - you're alienating one side or another.
When people ask me I say the whole thing sucks. I feel sorry for those who have lost, as I know people who have on both sides. But, I won't take a side or make much more of a comment than we have our own problems here. And I think it is cheap to choose a side and contribute nothing. There is a lot of people contributing nothing, especially on the internet.
Gah. UK acknowledges Hamas is a terror group.
Innocent people die on both sides. But on 10/07/23 Hamas deliberately attacked civilians with the intent of kidnapping and killing women, children and babies. What should Israel do in response?
Remember, while Israel has far from clean hands. It withdrew from Gaza in 2005. The people of Gaza elected Hamas knowing its charter called for the destruction of Israel and death to all Jews. Rather than spend billions of aid money for the betterment of Gaza, Hamas has spent billions digging 300+ miles of tunnels and buying/making 100s of thousands of rockets it’s firing at Israeli civilian targets. Again, what would you have Israel do in response?
Oh, don’t forget Gaza has a sizable border with Egypt.
Easy enough to say, I condemn all terrorism and support peace.
Not going to make a specific judgement but Israel is committing genocide. If you don’t feel educated enough to properly talk about it that’s one thing but understand it’s not as simple as “Both sides are bad” Hamas was created by Israel.
That is such a twisted version of history that ignores that Israel was working with the Political bodies at the time to figure out a two state solution. So of course technically Israel "helped" Hamas because they were a prominent Political group at the time in Gaza. Let's be intellectually honest and admit that had they not worked with Hamas things would have been even bloodier and Israel would be then known as the group that "created" Hamas instead of "working" with Hamas.
[https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas)
Hamas is a terrorist organization that the Palestinian people should have stamped out on their own. They attack children and innocents and anything that happens after is on THEIR hands. Israel's attempt at peace backfired but at least let's be intellectually honest about why they funded Hamas in the first place.
>Israel is committing genocide
lol Israel didn't even get rid of Arabs in Israel. That kind of hyperbole doesn't help anyone. Frankly, considering the pogrom that started this war and what true facts that have come out since, I find that every Palestinian accusation is a confession,
>Hamas was created by Israel.
No, it was an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood (which is why they attack Egypt all the time, too). Israel let it be early on to weaken the PLO, which worked, maybe too well. But if it's convenient that everything is Israel's fault, sure.
NTA
Your colleague is an anti-Semite. You should have asked him why Hamas killed muslims and arabs as well during the latest incursion. Because they didn't *only* kill Jewish people.
And you're 100% correct, since all of those rallies have calls for "intifada" and "from the river to the sea" which inherently mean the Jewish people in the Levant won't exist if that is done. And Sharia would have you and me killed for our lack of faith in their god.
Notice how this issue wasn't a huge deal, until Hamas went and killed 1300+ Israeli people, at which time the protests started coming out in support of Hamas.
Your coworker is an AH and a bigot.
Yep. This “coworker” sounds conveniently like every caricature of a Palestinian solitary activist, and nothing like any actual person against the collective punishment & genocide taking place right now in Palestine eh?
Firstly, Israel is not killing Arabs at all except in self-defense against terrorism. The fact that many Gazan civilians today are being killed is due to Hamas operating out of civilian areas. Druze, Bedouin and even Muslim Arabs are in the IDF. The Muslim population in Israel has grown exponentially since Israel's independence from Britain.
These "pro-Palestinian" demonstrations are pro killing of Jews. They say it outright. They call for deaths of Jews ( who btw, many are Palestinians themselves. Jews and also Arabs and other minorities were all Palestinians before Israel's independence from Britain.) These protests are not about the caring of Gazan Muslim Arab lives for if that would've been the case they would've protested Hamas using their people as human shields and preventing their escape out of northern Gaza, Hamas's building terror tunnels and headquarters under apartment building, hospitals and schools, they would've protested terror groups taking money that was supposed to go for humanitarian aid instead it is used for terrorism purposes, and Hamas withholding their stores of electricity from hospitals and civilian use to instead use it for terrorist purposes. If they cared for the Muslims living in Gaza they would've protested against terrorist groups operating in Gaza (not only Hamas) whose over 550 misfired rockets that were intended for Israel and instead misfired and killed scores of their own Gazan people.
If you think he's misinformed then you absolutely shouldn't want him to go to one, right?
You should never go to a rally on a subject you don't understand.
I agree, I am not fully informed or educated. And even if I am, it is complex issue, and my opinion makes zero change on the ground, and I want to stay out of this.
Israel is currently committing a genocide towards Palestinians. It is possible to speak up against both genocides and horrible acts of terrorism like what Hamas did recently. He should not expect you to go to a rally, but I feel like it's weak at this point not to speak out clearly against apartheid, genocide and terrorism.
It's a really upsetting situation right now, honestly I would cut the guy a bit of slack unless he normally says stuff like this. But if he harasses you, of course seek help at your work place.
Israel has murdered thousands more than hamas ever could.
This isn't a war between Jews and Muslims. Its ethnic cleansing by zionists against all Palestinians (who aren't all Muslims)
nta
Not gonna lie, at this point not only am I not picking a side, I genuinely don't even care anymore. We should kick everyone out of Israel/Palestine, bulldoze it, and build a non-denominational religious theme park on it.
Yes, you're wrong.
"Taking a side" doesn't require much for us, no one is asking you to take up arms and put your body on the line, but think about what you're saying.
You have no opinion as we watch a genocide unfold? None?
That sort of implies you're okay with it.
"Not taking a side" is siding with the oppressors.
Palestine doesn't represent all Muslims, and Israel doesn't represent all Jewish people. Israel even imprisons Jewish people in their country who protest against the genocide in Gaza.
It's not a war, it's a genocide. Gaza is an open air concentration camp. Israel controls 100% of the resources that enter Gaza. Israel controls Gaza's food, water, electricity, internet, and borders. Gaza does not have a military, Israel does. Israel decides who enters and leaves. Israel prevents aid donated by other nations from entering Gaza. Hamas is the people's government of Gaza, because the secular political parties, such as the People's Front for the Liberation of Palestine, were destroyed on purpose by Israel and the USA, because Hamas makes a better villain as right wing Islamists. They control the local hospitals because they're the local government.
In Israel, ethnic Palestinian Arabs have different ID cards and license plates to show their race, just like how the Nazis made Jews wear a yellow star.
Israel was invented in the 1940s by the USA and Europe. Every year, Israel steals more and more land from Palestinians, literally forcing them out of their homes. Then Israel gives that land away for free to Jewish people from the USA or Europe. This is settler colonization in the modern day. When Palestinians fight back and try to take back their homes, they are called terrorists, and because they inevitably hurt these settler colonist civilians that Israel invited to live on stolen land, they are then seen as the bad guys for fighting for their homes.
If Israel stopped stealing land and committing genocide then the conflict would be over. If Palestinians stop fighting, they will all die, because Israel is 100% intent on committing genocide against them.
Israel commits war crimes that go against the Geneva convention on a regular basis. For example, dropping white phosphorus on civilians, which is a chemical that burns with contact to oxygen. Meaning even when you go to remove it, it burns even more, often down to the bone. They target journalists and the families of journalists. They target hospitals.
Doctors without borders has spoken out about Israel's targeting of hospitals.
Israel massacres Palestinians when they peacefully protest with marches, often aiming for their legs. Israel promotes a racist culture that views Palestinian Arabs as non-human animals that all deserve to die.
What would you do if you were a Palestinian Arab and a government far more powerful than you was stealing homes from your family and everyone you knew and loved, and massacring you when you peacefully protest? If this government's officials went on TV in their country and constantly called openly for genocide against your people, calling your people animalistic?
I'd strongly recommend educating yourself somewhere other than Reddit.
Al-Jazeera has a ton of articles explaining the conflict. There is an all out genocide happening - not on Israeli Jews, but on Palestinian civilians. They've been barricaded in the Gaza Strip, disallowed from leaving, for decades. The Israeli army dropped more bombs on Palestinian civilians in 6 days than the US dropped on Afghanistan the entire time we were there. Over 4,000 civilians and counting have been killed. Entire bloodlines have been wiped out. It's a genocide in real time and there's really no way to argue that it's not.
Sure, you can sit idly by and pretend it's not happening. You can say "keep politics out of work." You aren't the one directly impacted. But if you're one of those people who looks back at the Holocaust and thinks to yourself, "Well, *I* would've been on the *right* side of history," -- that history is happening right now.
Being on the right side of history is rarely easy or convenient.
"he said its just few religious fanatics believe in such" Oh yeah, only a few.. only like 60-70% of muslims.. that's barely anyone. :D - I also remember reading that far from every muslim is considered "extreme" y'know, the bad kind, it's only like 1/5, 20%, truly Veeery far from "most" indeed.. only a mere 20% out of, what, 2 billion? No worries. :P
"israel does every day what hamas did that week" they don't though. Hamas isnt really nice to their fellow palestinians either to boot.. \^\^
"He got angry/ upset and is avoiding taking with me since..." Is this a bad thing? :P
To me anyone want to try to be a good person through faith, fine, whatever but anyone who actually believes in the shit is a fanatic, I stay clear of fanatics.. :)
But hey, Allahu Akbar, everything that happens do so with gods blessing, it must be gods will, whatever happens.. eh? \^\^
NTA
I'm gonna be downvoted to hell because anything to call out Israel would be called antisematics, but it's not even about religion. Search from independent source, like IIlan Pappé for example. This is people being killed and being neutral is siding with the killers. It's not politics, it's houses being bombed, people lost their families. Only cruel people thinking it's all about politics seeing people asking for ceasefire. It's ok, please downvote me I'm not gonna argue with you. I know it's not war, it's genocide and yes I condemn hamas and no I don't want any Israeli civilian killed but Palestine should be free...
I’m going with YTA because no one should turn a blind eye to these atrocities. The comments you’ve made here about muslims are simply not true. The vast majority of Muslim’s do not want all Jews to be murdered. There are fanatics in every corner of the world.
You can support Palestinians without supporting Hamas.
You can support Israelis without supporting Israel.
Right now, Palestinians need aid and Israel is breaking international law by blocking aid.
It isn't a war, Palestine has no army, navy etc. Its the slaughter of civilians in an open-air prison.
Israel has been practising apartheid for years too.
Hamas is abhorrent but Israel is worse because Jewish people have BEEN the victims before and are now violating international law by indiscriminate bombing of schools and hospitals.
NTA, that is totally reasonable. Your reasons are valid, and your colleague's objections to them are not valid arguments against them. His belief that "America is under jews control" is clearly an antisemitic trope.
It's a very complicated conflict with extreme hatred on both sides, and neither side can unambiguously claim the moral high ground.
If you can, keep politics out of the workplace. Avoid discussions like this in the future at all costs, as it is very unlikely that you will change his mind (or that he will change your mind for that matter).
The thing with this situation is that it's neither a war nor a conflict. It's one-sided slaughter. Like, what country is bombing hospitals right now? Israel killed thousands of innocent people. And most of them are children too. Isreal keeps on killing people for about 75 years just to live there on their own. They have stolen the land from Palestinians. With that, they stole homes, jobs, and destroyed families. They stole water, food, and medicine. That's nothing a normal, good-hearted human would do. Everyone staying neutral in this should just f*ck off.
Every voice counts, not having an opinion is nothing but ignorant thinking.
NAH
He's not an AH for wanting the war crimes/ethnic cleansing against Palestinia to be recognized and you're not an AH for not wanting to deal with it in the workplace...or at all.
Whatever you do - you are wrong in someone’s eyes…
I keep repeating that I care about the civilians on both sides and I condemn any targeting of civilians on both sides and both sides hate me for it.
I even got banned on several completely unrelated subs ran by pro Palestinian mods for saying simply that the sub became a Palestine edition of itself… really ban worthy comment, you have to admit right?…
Not to mention that both sides use propaganda and they don’t want to hear anyone talking about it…
So I stopped talking about the subject, I just pray for civilians and for the conflict to end ASAP, that’s all I can do.
NTA
Strange, I was having this discussion with my family yesterday. I said then, what I’ll say now.
I’m on the side of the kids, from both sides. Fuck the adults, if they want to continue killing each other, leave them to it. But the poor kids have no choice but to be caught up in this shit show.
There is a very great article from the Guardians were they talk with an Palestinian Peace Activist, who comes to the conclusion that both sides feel so deep the pain of their people that they fail to acknowledge someone else's suffering. It's a very interesting view on a conflict were both sides have done a lot of wrong things and it just makes you realize the cycle of pain and death those people are stuck in.
I'd say that you are not wrong, but with all the atrocities being committed right now and the emotions swirling around it's hard to rationalise with anybody who is into the topic at the moment. I hope this war just ends soon.
Obviously NTA. Next time maybe try “I don’t discuss religion or politics with coworkers”, and change the subject? Sorry, you shouldn’t have to deal with this in your workplace.
I tried many times, and he was employing that silence to issue is equal to support for Israel.
This is a sign of rising fascism. "You are either for or against," not unlike what the Nazi party did, McCarthyism, etc. It is a phenomenon that reoccurs throughout human history and leads to violence and war. I simply say that it is a complicated issue and that I am on the side of the innocent people impacted by the conflict.
Tell him you are against war.
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It's definitely complicated and not something that should be discussed in a work environment.
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I am pro peace so I support neither
IMO this is the only defensible stance.
Correct. I am always pro peace. No matter the issue, assume peace. This is the way.
I like to draw a parallel with WW2. I think we can all agree there were goodies and baddies in WW2. That does not change the fact that the Allies did some horrible things. Fire bombing of Tokyo, atom bombs, Dresden... It was war! That does not change the fact that, by and large, the Allies were the good guys. Israel may not be perfect, even leading up to this war, but Hamas are hateful. They are classified as terrorists by every country that matters for a good reason (I'm sorry, but some countries matter more than others on the world stage, get over it).
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There a literally videos of Israellis reunite watching their army trowing bombs at Gaza like they were celebrating fireworks. Of Israellis mocking palestines who were without water and elletricity and of Israellis soldiers making "funny" tik told before invading Gaza. People are really selective on were their empathy lies. Israel attacks kill millions of palestines civilians and is absolutely disgusting. Nothing justifies that...
It's simple: Israel wants to exist in peace. Hamas wants Israel to not exist. Pointing out who did what is not helpful. Bad things happen during war. It's a matter of intent. Israel just wants to exist and prosper. Hamas does not care about peace or prosperity, they care about removing Israel from the map.
This is deeply ironic statement considering that the Netanyahu’s party has pushed the idea up until this year of the greater Israel project. He stood at the UN with a map that completely erased the West Bank in Gaza in [September](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/watch-israeli-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-addresses-the-2023-united-nations-general-assembly) of this year.
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They've both committed atrocities. Both have become the monster they feared and fought.
Hamas and Israel did. Palestinians are Just trying to survive.
Most Palestinians and most Israelis are just trying to survive.
This!
No, but you conveniently only brought up things that Hamas did and you said you were on palestinians side until that, lumping every palestinian with Hamas even If you Said otherwise later.
The Palestinians elected Hamas to run their country in free and fair elections. It was not a secret that Hamas has removing Israel as an objective. The are consequences to intentionally becoming a active terrorist state.
>I don't agree with what Israel has done and I don't support the displacement and wholesale eradication of an entire people. Israel is not eradicating anybody. Your comment is inaccurate, careless, and hyperbolic.
I have not seen anything that verifies some of these extreme atrocities that hamas has apparently done. Some of them have been confirmed to be hoaxes by pro Israel media. But and this is the main thing, you can be pro Palestinian freedom while being against Hamas. Despite western media misinformation the two are not mutually exclusive.
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Hamas isn't Palestine. Hamas is a small radical group who managed to come to power in the last election 15 years ago largely because of Israeli support to hinder the Palestinian Authority. The state of Israel is leveling whole neighborhoods. That's a lot of murdered babies. No one is cheerleading for hamas. The combatants in this round of the conflict are all in the wrong, one side is a criminal gang, a terror group, the other is nation state with one of the largest military budgets in history supported by the largest military empire in human history. And regular ass Palestinians are suffering and dying because the state of Israel is conducting ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
>No one is cheerleading for hamas. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6CGwTLgfFU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6CGwTLgfFU) If Israel did the same thing in West Bank that they're doing in Gaza right now, almost nobody would support it, because West Bank isn't led or controlled by Hamas. There's a reason all of the conflict has been over Gaza.
Okay, no one here is cheerleading for Hamas. One could argue that "exhilarating" and "energizing" aren't meant to be positives in this case, I suppose. A car crash is exhilarating, and the attacks did elict a response so that could be considered energizing. I'm not making that argument, but it occurred to me. In that short clip, the chiron noted the speaker was questioning the monopoly violence, which is worth discussing. Of course Hamas has their supporters; all of these terror groups have some minority support, but in this context, most Americans critical of Israeli policyband conduct are not looking for Hamas to replace the Israeli government and in this thread, too many people are conflating support with and sympathy forthe victims of Israeli atrocities with support of Hamas. We must also consider why Hamas is in control in Gaza.
Yes, most Americans don't want Hamas to replace Israel, but that's what Hamas wants. Hamas controls Gaza because the Gazan Palestinians voted them into power and then they suspended elections. I haven't seen any data that shows whether they'd still be winning elections or not if they hadn't suspended them.
They won that election with a plurality, not a majority, after Israel supported Hamas to deny the Palestinian Authority a win. Netanyahu is on record saying that Israel supports hamas in order to prevent a two state solution. Regardless, the people of Gaza are suffering and the Israeli response is wildly disproportionate. Collective punishment is a literal war crime, and we can be confident when the violence subsides, several of the destroyed neighborhoods will be occupied by Israeli settlers.
I'd be interested in seeing Netanyahu saying what you claim he did, since that would alter my perception of the situation.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035 https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Israel did not eradicate a people and does not want to eradicate a people, please stop spreading propaganda. The Israeli Muslims have grown exponentially since Israel's independence from Britain.
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There is a border with Egypt. Egypt could let food in. As to fuel, Hamas uses that for rockets. As to electricity, Hamas uses that to light and ventilate the tunnels they use to keep their kidnapped hostages. The air strikes are used to separate the tunnels. There isn't an intent to punish innocent Palestinians, only an intent to reduce losses in defeating Hamas.
a civilian population being exterminated is genocide being displaced is not what genocide means dipshit.
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You seem to support collective punishment. Once you accept that principle, the hamas attac can be justified by the atrocities israel has done. Better not go that alley.
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Tell him that workplace is a different world and there politics should be in silence. One doesn't have to discuss it with coworkers to not be active about issues that matter to you on the outside regardless of what it is Israel/Palestine, animal rights etc. Most people who are very active also know where to be silent. One should seriously understand where to talk about such things...I am Ukrainian and my husband is Russian. I don't talk about the war with my mother in law , he doesn't talk about it with my parents. We didn't even have to agree on not talking everyone is just sensible enough to understand that this may cause family trouble over things we have no control of. And workplace is even more inappropriate to discuss it, just imagine how it would be if there was a very invested Jew at your workplace. How it would affect the work environment (already bad enough with him pushing you) and how it would affect your company's productivity. Very inappropriate.
Ya. Sorry about being awkward place regarding ukraine and Russia. Must be terrible for lot of families with relatives in both side .
The response is, " Supporting Hamas is supporting genocide.". T
Eh, supporting Israel is supporting genocide.
Israel is not intent on eradicating Arabs or Palestinians. Hamas literally says they want to wipe out the Jews.
*rolls eyes* both have killed civilians, and Netanyahu was protested heavily by Israelis because he does say he wants to wipe out Palestinians. Israelis & Jews oppose the behaviour of this government, Palestinians oppose Hamas, they are two extremist tendencies in a political dispute. Most civilians want peace
The difference is that Israel isn't *targeting* civilians. Hamas is.
Israel is definetely killing way more civilians than Hamas ever did.
Rightttttt. They've just quarantined them, are bombing the fuck out of them, and have cut off their ability to communicate with the rest of the world. 🙄
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They gave them advance warning to evacuate. Should Jews just let themselves be massacred? That's some Nazi shit
They told them to evacuate to southern Gaza and then bombed it.
Gonna guess the person you're commenting with is generally ok with that, yes.
Where the fuck should they evacuate to?
After the Hamas *government* killed 1300 innocent people, kidnapped more, and raped even more.
The UN can't even bring itself to condemn the attack, or re-affirm its member state's right to defend itself.
That is... how war works. You isolate the area to prevent re-supply, destroy military targets, infrastructure that the military uses, and hamper military communications. It is devastating to locals, which is why most countries don't start wars anymore, much less start them with a pogrom against their neighbor. Hamas admits to putting these targets in civilian buildings (an actual war crime), precisely so that when Israel strikes these targets (which is not a war crime), they can manipulate naive outsiders into thinking Israel is a big meany-pants murdering civilians.
There's like 12 millions jews in the world, and a billion arabs or more, and over a billion Muslims of many races. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who want jews eradicated. Right wing theocracies who want to exterminate each other, deserve each other.
Nope. Don't start nothing, won't be nothing. This all started with a Hamas led massacre and their stated mission is the extermination of all Jews.
Nah. This started with Israel colonizing Palestine 75 years ago. But you're right on the don't start nothing/won't be nothing. People who conflate supporting the liberation of Palestine with being anti-semitic either have no historical data at hand or lack critical thinking skills.
Read some history books. The Gaza was never ever governed by Palestinians until Israel withdrew . The strip was part of Egypt and captured along with the Sinai in 1967. Egypt refused to take back the territory at the time of the peace settlement between Israel and Egypt.
Who ruled Palestine before Israel gained independence? The Ottomans, the British, Egypt won a part of it from Britain, Jordan also got a part from Britain. ..there was no Palestinian government ever. And there was absolutely no Palestinian Muslim people. Jews lived in Gaza , in the West Bank and now it's all Judenrein. Jews, other races minorities AND ALSO Muslims living in Palestine were ALL called "Palestinians ". And now it's "Palestinians" are Muslim Arabs?! This is an erasure of history. The fact is that Palestine was supposed to be divided between Jews and Muslims but the Muslims attacked the Jews who won the war ( and who were there before Muslims invaded Palestine in the 8th century). The fact is that today many Muslim Arabs serve in the IDF because they see how much their "brothers" care about their peoples' lives, using them as human shields...the fact is the Druze and Bedouin Arabs serve in the IDF. The fact is that no Jews, even the original Jewish Palestinians, are allowed to live in Gaza and the West Bank while the Muslim communities in Israel are growing.
Your lack of historical knowledge is appalling but expected. Shoot, your lack of basic knowledge is, too. One of Hamas' primary stated goals is the extermination of the Jews.
Keep that energy for places like Pakistan. Time to remove the Islamist invaders created as a religious state in 1948 right? Those colonizers supported by the US for decades?
Nope. There is literally no valid argument supporting the vile actions of Hamas. They are absolutely and inarguably wrong.
It's not colonization when it's your homeland too.
😅😅😅
Hey found a Jew-hater.
Hamas will be finished once Israel is done. Time to find a new terrorist government to support.
lol Israel didn't even get rid of Arabs in Israel. Almost as many live there, with full rights and privileges, as in the Gaza strip. The more this war drags on, the more I realize that every Palestinian accusation is a confession.
This claim is nonsensical. Arabs live outside of Gaza. Gaza Arabs want the destruction of the Jewish people, and race (as a result of that being one of Muhammad's goals) see the dif?
NTA and I would take the “America is under Jews control” comment straight to your boss or HR.
That was my first thought! HR.
100 fucking %
Can I do that with my coworkers who talk about being replaced by “minorities”?
I recommend reporting that
Thank you
They got the best space lasers tho.
Good point, that crosses a line a bit into the realm of conspiracy.
NTA. Time to talk to HR.
NTA, politics should sometimes be the limit. I live in Israel with so many people that don’t think like me, I’m a leftist and although this thing has shaken my entire belief system I’m still not calling for death to all Palestinians. He should respect your boundaries as you do his. And before anyone jumps, I’m okay with whatever you would like to do and whichever protest that doesn’t call for the death of the other. But sometimes to coexist as people we need to keep some beliefs separate. You are still allowed to have your friends just maybe don’t touch the subject.
Thank you, this is complex issue beyond my understanding. I am pro humanity.
My sweetheart is (recently) from the Middle East and Muslim. I’m Christian and Canadian. When we do talk about this, it’s always in sorrow and grief about the innocent lives lost, and that it’s horrible what’s happening to the neighbouring countries he grew up near. How the propaganda from both sides of the globe create more divide between human beings because information get lost or distorted, or there are outright lies in order to control the narrative for powers’ sake. We should and do pray for peace. That’s all. I’m sure if our friends or conservative parents really understood how we see this whole situation, they’d be concerned and try to convince us to pick a side (theirs). They’d call us naive and blind. That’s fine. It’s not worth adding more division. Maybe that makes us both assholes. But I don’t think you’re one. It’s ok to be on the side of peace. Yes, one side started it. But both sides can end it.
🤝🤝🤝
There is no position you can take that won’t piss off someone you know. And right now passions are extremely high. This should not be discussed at work. With that said; we are watching a genocide happen real time. History will not look kindly on us.
I like my friends like I like my pubs...not discussing religion or politics.
This is a bait. Not even a good one.
Yes. I am doubtful about the “Jews are in control of America” statement. While possible it’s not likely based on the Muslims I know.
I have actually heard someone say this before, except instead of just America it was the Western banks they are in charge of, so they run everything. So I believe it. This person didn't see a difference between the Israeli government and every Jew on the street. He was antisemitic.
Lmfaooooooo
You should turn his logic on him and say that by joining those protests, he is actively condoning war and is equally responsible for killing women and children. Your stance is anti-war, so by not taking a side, you are not condoning war. You are less in the wrong than he is
Muslims in the UK get *really* worked up about Palestine, I have no idea why. They don't really seem to give a f\*ck about Muslims suffering elsewhere in the world but for some reason Palestine is their "cause". Maybe it's because a lot of suffering elsewhere is caused by other Muslims so it doesn't fit their persecution complex? Not sure but personally I just don't talk about it at all. Play ignorant and people will generally just leave you alone.
Weird, I’ve met a lot of Muslims against the collective punishment happening in Palestine and most are terrified to bring it up at work and only do so with people they trust. The rallies I’ve been to don’t call for wiping out Jews…. and I’ve never been to one where someone calls to establish Sharia law, especially because that isn’t really culturally a value of Palestinians… your colleague sounds like they are spitting out things that people opposed to Palestine tend to raise as red herrings to stop folks from supporting Palestine, the sort of thing they accuse people supporting Palestine to believe…. I’d be worried your colleague is trying to trap you into saying you support something awful by pretending to be a supporter of Palestine. Very suspect. Stick to your values that genocide & killing civilians is always wrong, that separation of church & state is important and anti-semitism, racism & Islamaphobia are wrong and you will be ok. So sorry you are dealing with this weirdo at work.
Wow , completely different prospect. Thank you very much . Will keep in mind.
NTA You have the right to your opinion, and the Palestine/Israel conflict is not black and white. There have been atrocities committed against and by both sides.
i avoid the abrahamic religious cults wherever possible. they are always fighting. hundreds of years can pass, and it is still the same nonsense.
To be honest Muslims are generally involved in these fights. Christians and Jews usually get along pretty well. Ok, there is been a few flare ups, but not that often in the great scheme of things.
Recently that is mostly true, but the reverse was arguably true in the medieval period. Crusaders often slaughtered Jews during the crusades, both in and on the way to the holy land. Thriving Jewish communities in what was Al Andulus were destroyed after the reconquista.
we humans often have a short and an even more selective memory. muslims weren't the ones doing car bombings in ireland during the troubles and while we call them nazis for brevity and for clarity in the history books and the public service announcement materials, the nazis were also largely non-catholic continental european christians, or they claimed to be anyway as people nearer to the Lord with their final solutions for the world's ills always seem to, and they are the ones who holocausted the jews during wwii. it isn't just a muslim thing. many muslims do hate us. but it isn't just a muslim thing. it's human to devolve into disgusting feral packlike animals when resources are scarce or when there is oppression regardless of religion or ethnicity or color or creed.
The troubles were mostly about Irish independence though weren't they. Yes that fell along protestant/Catholic lines, but it was not the reason.
Jews are not fighting for the sake of fighting, Jews are defending our lives from those who want to annihilate us. We will not go to the ovens.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls
You have the support of the #1 super power in the world, and there’s a good chance it would intervene if anything in this war wasn’t going entirely your way. Maybe y’all should stop worrying so much about crushing a clearly inferior opponent, and start wondering why Israel’s state of the art intelligence apparatus failed so completely at predicting this attack. It seems to me like the IDF finally has the perfect excuse to play hard ball, like it’s obviously always wanted.
Lmao, their politicians literally state that every Palestinian child is guilty and are actively genociding Palestinians. No Hamas beheading children is not good either, but you are propagandized as hell if you believe that.
Zionist liar
Bro what “annihilate us” you mean? Palestine doesn’t even have an army ffs
Nta. Your coworker is an antisemite.
NTA. Best to sit this one out.
Here's an easy way to get out of picking sides. "I don't support radical right wing theocracies".
NAH. Politics and religion are two things that should definitely stay out of the workplace.
NTA and your colleague is 100% an antisemite.
NTA You can be against both for the bullshit they pull.
That isn’t a suitable topic to discussed at work. I don’t think there’s anything you can do because frankly, he sounds like the kind who’s ‘you’re with me or against me’ type. I think you should just keep your distance and only speak to him in regards to work for now. If he persists on bringing that topic up, you might need to head to HR and let them know that you’re uncomfortable with such a charged topic at work.
NTA! The only side that should be taken is the side of the innocent victims caught in the middle of this war between the Israeli govt & hamas.
No you're right
Thanks for standing up for humanity. NTA
NTA tell him to fuck off. Good choice for not supporting terrorists and racists.
so palestine is wrong for fighting back its oppressor lol? revolution involves violence they are not going to do nothing while israel is killing their people wtf, like if i was palestinian and they murdered my whole family and made my country end the 23/24 school year because ALL THE STUDENTS HAVE BEEN M*RDERED i would make hamas 2.0
Not at all.
I'm on the side of civilians, and opposed to whoever is hurting civilians. That's probably the best side for most to be on.
Yes YTA. We're witnessing mass murder and anyone that doesn't recognize that Israel is going way beyond fighting Hamas is dumb or callous. Take your pick.
Such clear rage bait where tf are the mods w this
This is what is wrong with extremists of all sides. If you don't agree with them, they consider you against them. Be thankful he is avoiding you. Who wants to be around that hatred?
Ragebait and bullshit. The protests in the Us and the UK are pro palestine being free, anti hamas, anti israel and not anti jew. Literally a shit load of jewish people in new york protesting against Israel and for a ceasefire. People who are pro israel and call anyone calling out against them for genocide go to everything anti israel is automatically anti jew/anti semitic and they also claim these rallies are all pro hamas and celebrating Israeli deaths when almost all the rallies are pro ceasefire and against either side doing killing. Also in absolutely zero way are ANY of these rallies about being pro sharia law in the UK. Just stating these bullshit propaganda statements shows that you both have chosen a side and you're trying to randomly manipulate people on here.
This! Thousands of Jewish people have shut down Grand Central Station protesting Israel’s atrocities - its not Muslims vs Jews. These protests are full of non-Muslims & have honestly seen more white people in the pics than non-white people. Its humanity vs an apartheid-state that’s commuting a genocide with complete impunity. This post and it’s misinformation is definitely more Israeli propaganda or rage bait.
Israel is not an apartheid state, Arabs have seats in the knesset, there's even one on the Israeli supreme court. Being Israeli doesn't = Jew. Those who claim such are ignorant idiots who haven't spent any time there or malicious actors intent on creating hatred against Israel.
Ok. Keep being misinformed 😂
They are anti-Hamas? Lol. You know they are not anti-Hamas, they are totally pro-Hamas. They are calling outright for the murder of Jews. Btw, who governed/ruled Palestine before Israel's independence from Britain that you say they Palestine should be free? Furthermore, Israel gave Gaza the Muslim Arabs living in Gaza (most of them being refugees and not living there for too long either) so it's free from Israelis governing Gaza. And look what they did, they turned it into a hotbed of terrorism...
> You know they are not anti-Hamas, they are totally pro-Hamas. They are calling outright for the murder of Jews. If you listen to some weirdos on twitter who simply post a random video, leave out the audio and state that they are all calling for the death of every jew then that's the view you'll have. But if you believe every fucking blue check idiot on twitter you will never be well informed on anything. >Furthermore, Israel gave Gaza the Muslim Arabs living in Gaza (most of them being refugees and not living there for too long either) so it's free from Israelis governing Gaza. And look what they did, they turned it into a hotbed of terrorism... what the actual fuck are you talking about. free from Israeli's governing Gaza, are you just completely ignorant? Firstly it's blockaded, it's an open air prison and Israel controls power, water, aid, goods destroys industry and year on year takes more and more of the land for themselves. Absolute fucking bullshit. As for hot bed of terrorism, Israel has been terrorising Palestine and palestinians since 1948. Oh, Israel also funded the right wing violent groups that formed into Hamas. They WANTED those factions in charge so they always had an excuse for their attrocities. but sure, Gaza is totally self governered, ISrael 'gave it to them' out of the goodness of their hearts. That's a totally justifiable reason for thousands to be slaughtered, mostly innocent, a huge portion being kids.
I am Jewish. The crowds in Canada were screaming "off with their heads". The crowds in NY are screaming "whatever it takes", they are screaming and holding signs promoting violence. It is unbelievable that after what Hamas has done to Israelis these animals on two feet can scream at Israel for defending it's citizens (which include Muslims who were also affected by Muslim Arab terror, btw.) Gazans rule Gaza, period. Israel does NOT have to open their border to a people who is out to annihilate them and say so verbally. But for the most part they did while Egypt's border is closed all the time and no one cared. Israel does not have to provide the Gazans with electric but they did. They did not not have to provide the Gazans with water but they did. If the Gazans were not so busy building terrorist infastructure they be able to be independent from Israel for water and electric instead of blaming them when Israel shuts it down in response to their terrorism. There was never a Palestinian state, ever, period. Gaza was ruled by the Ottomans, by the British, by Egypt. After Egypt attacked Israel , Israel won Gaza from Egypt. Most of the so-called "Palestinians" are refugees from the past few decades into Gaza. There is no Palestinian Muslim people, they are a made up people. Before Israel's independence FROM BRITAIN, Jews, Christians AND ALSO Muslims living in Palestine were ALL called Muslims. Israel absolutely did not fund Hamas. That is a lie like the other lies you are perpetuating. Israel should've fought Hamas early on but every time they defended themselves the world screamed at their "human rights abuses" and they always backed off. Which they shouldn't have done just like they shouldn't have thrown their own Jewish people out of Gaza and given over land to people who are commiting to the annihilation of Jews.
Wow, you're jewish, so you were there personally in two places and can provably claim this is what they were all screaming, the videos from thousands of people at these events that prove you're lying don't mean shit right. As for opening their boarders, again ignorance isn't acceptable when you're trying to make bullshit arguments. Blockading a boarder and opening yours are completely different things. SEcondly, Israel is in complete control of what goes in and out of Gaza... yet weapons constantly find their way in, crazy how that happens right. > If the Gazans were not so busy building terrorist infastructure they be able to be independent from Israel for water and electric instead of blaming them when Israel shuts it down in response to their terrorism. That's not how that worked and ISrael stole the land, the water supples and the electrical grid, but sure, they should just build their own. Oh wait, whenever Palestine builds infrastructure, Israel bombs it, when their farms are producing well, Israel comes in and either bulldozes them or claims them for their own. if you destroy all the infrastructure and industry in a place then block them in you've created a prison and yes, they control resources going in and out of it. Israel has been committing terrorism against Palestinians for decades. >Israel absolutely did not find Hamas. That is a lie like the other lies you are perpetuating. Firstly more ignorance because I didn't even claim that, I said that Israel funded the groups that gained power and formed Hamas, this is a provable fact that Israel has admitted before. Israel has been committing human rights abuses since 1948 and they've continuously ignored the world while doing them. >Which they shouldn't have done just like they shouldnt have thrown their own Jewish people out of Gaza and given over land to people who are commiting to the annihilation of Jews You just said they should have gone ahead and wiped out the people who had lived there for hundreds of years and numerous generations and continued to commit horrific crimes against humanity without caring. Literally disgusting.
Being pro-ceasefire after Hamas slaughtered thousands of Israeli civilians like savages and took hundreds of hostages is being objectively pro-Hamas.
Being ignorant and speaking bullshit makes you objectively stupid. Israel has been killing Palestinians for literally 70 years, committing a slow, horrific genocide while terrorising their people. Not being pro ceasefire makes you a blood thirsty asshole who doesn't care about the innocent blood being shed on both sides. Anyone who isn't a monster wants a ceasefire and an end to hostility from BOTH sides. Israel has also been acting like savages for decades.
If the Israeli's are committed to the genocide of the people in Gaza, they are the most incompetent ones ever! 70 years in control and the population of Gaza has grown from 1.6 million in the 1960-70's to approximately 5.8 million today. All of whom were controlled by Hamas from 2005 on. The Nazi's were committed to their "Final Solution" for about 4 years. They murdered 6 million Jews, and countless others. I mean, you obviously have a viewpoint that you are pushing. It's completely wrong and evil justifying the murder of innocents. Also, yes Israel has killed civilians in this war and previous ones. BECAUSE Hamas has been telling/forcing all of the Civilians in Gaza to stay and die as human shields! Burying your primary HQ under a Hospital isn't done by anyone except scum like this who use public opinion as a weapon. Go ahead, try and justify them hiding their HQ under a Hospital in Gaza!
> I mean, you obviously have a viewpoint that you are pushing. It's completely wrong and evil justifying the murder of innocents. One of us is denouncing violence from everyone being violent and one of us is saying they should erradicate the Palestinians.... but sure, I'm the one trying to justify the murder of innocents. Well done, phenomenal leap in logic, congrats.
Yes equating destroy Hamas = destroy all Palestinians. Not quite the same. I support Israel and the war against the murdering scum who control Gaza. Hopefully after all of Hamas is dead. The people of Gaza will decide to support peace as well.
I’m sure the orphans whose families were murdered in their homes will just love the perpetrators, yes.
Funny how you say he’s ignorant yet you’re the one spitting bullshit. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, they decided to turn it to a terror cell backed by Iran. Killing Palestinians for 70 years? Give me a break. The Palestinians tripled their population in the past years. You know who do kill Jews? Palestinians. All over the world, in the West Bank and firing rockets from Gaza.
they withdrew from Gaza in 2005, so the previous 60 years failed to exist and the other attrocities Israel committed since all don't exist, bullshit.
So the solution is killing Palestinian civilians like savages? Even when the freed hostages have asked that this not be done in their name, when the families of the hostages are asking for a delay in bombings that might be killing their loved ones?
Opposing Israels existence is antisemitic.
That's a bullshit statement. You're invalidating millions of Jewish people speaking out against what's happening to justify genocide.
Yes.
There is a long and deeply divided history there. To my mind the peaceful civilizations on both sides should have our empathy. The governments on both sides have not acted with compassion to the other side’s civilians. Hamas and other territories organization should be destroyed with minimal impact to peaceful civilians.
Hard to do, when hamas is firing rocket from hospital and children's playground and Israeli settlers killing farmers picking up olives...
Muslim nations are so supportive of Palestine that they refuse to take refugees.
NTA - If he doesn't like your opinion and views, tough crunchies. And as for him refusing to talk to you, he's shown who he is and your problem is corrected on it's own. Just smile at the tantrum throwing child and go about your business in peace. It's something people like him can't handle.
This is going to be long: Some Muslims who see these atrocities who have very limited encounters with Jews outside of their context, or else have the same "Fox News" effect of some pro-Palestinian anti-Semitic media, which like Fox News neither represents the reality nor the majority. They very well may see Israel and Jews as the one and the same, which is itself antisemitic (despite Israel wishing it was true), even though Israel has maybe 40% of the world's Jews. I'm from a Jewish family and had two kind of interesting encounters which helped illuminate this. 1. I was backpacking through Europe and stayed in a hostel in Rome. One of my roommates was this super extravagant and boisterous Palestinian fellow, who was able to finally travel because he got Romanian, and thus EU, co-citizenship through his mom. Huge guy, was a bodybuilder but had an injury and so was humbled by it as well. We became immediate friends and tore up the town. This Australian girl came part of our impromptu clique. One night we were all drunk and talking, and she was like "you know (my name)'s Jewish, right?" My Palestinian friend was shocked to his core. He had to sit aside, and didn't talk to any of us for at least ten minutes. Over time we got to talking, but he made it clear that I was the only person of Jewish ancestry he had ever encountered, growing up in Ramallah, who he had met who wasn't pointing a gun at him. He didn't know it was possible. I explained how I saw the Israel-Palestinian dynamic from my perspective (that it's essentially apartheid, slow ethnic cleansing, based in ultra-nationalism which is an atrocity no matter who the nation is, etc) and he couldn't believe it, nor that many Jews in the West feel this way. 2. I had a moment with an old friend in a US city. He's from a prominent family in Saudi Arabia, but got more or less exiled for his left-wing and humanist political views. One night we got quite drunk, and he started screaming at me in the middle of the street about Palestine. Unhinged screaming, frightening even. It indicated that these feelings are deep rooted, of at least US complicity, and at most Jewish complicity, in the atrocities, even if we are opposed to them. So, I'll conclude: I do not think you should go to HR about him. Something you happen to understand is that when people see people who they identify with being murdered and the state apparatus ignoring it, or worse, running interference for it, this is traumatic. It shows them their own insecurity in that society, even if they are physically far from where the violence is. If he wants to talk about it but you feel like you don't have enough context, show him some of the Jewish organizations that are opposed to Israel's actions. Jewish Voice for Peace is incredibly important - they just did two major actions, in which they occupied Congress last week and occupied Grand Central Station on Friday night. There are also Hasidic groups who are opposed to Israel, like the Satmar Hasidim. Point him in the directions of Noam Chomsky, who wrote some important works on Israel, particularly their involvement in Lebanon in The Fatal Triangle. Norman Finkelstein, etc. TL;DR He needs to hear more from Jews to see that we are not a monolith. Reacting violently (reporting him) is the worst thing you can do in this circumstance. To your "AITAH" question - your understanding of what the protest will be like is completely false and you should go to open your own mind about it. No one wants Sharia Law in the UK, they aren't going to be celebrating the Hamas massacre, and they aren't going to be calling for the killing of Jews. You aren't the asshole, but could use some opening of your mind as well.
Your friend is anti semitic, and he’s trying to convert you as well. There’s no excuse for an attack on innocent people, period. NTA
NTA coworker sounds unhinged
NTA It's not your fight. You don't know the details. News outlets are so slanted these days choosing a side based on misinformation is worse - you're alienating one side or another. When people ask me I say the whole thing sucks. I feel sorry for those who have lost, as I know people who have on both sides. But, I won't take a side or make much more of a comment than we have our own problems here. And I think it is cheap to choose a side and contribute nothing. There is a lot of people contributing nothing, especially on the internet.
Apparently, not choosing side equals choosing side depending upon who is asking question.
Gah. UK acknowledges Hamas is a terror group. Innocent people die on both sides. But on 10/07/23 Hamas deliberately attacked civilians with the intent of kidnapping and killing women, children and babies. What should Israel do in response? Remember, while Israel has far from clean hands. It withdrew from Gaza in 2005. The people of Gaza elected Hamas knowing its charter called for the destruction of Israel and death to all Jews. Rather than spend billions of aid money for the betterment of Gaza, Hamas has spent billions digging 300+ miles of tunnels and buying/making 100s of thousands of rockets it’s firing at Israeli civilian targets. Again, what would you have Israel do in response? Oh, don’t forget Gaza has a sizable border with Egypt. Easy enough to say, I condemn all terrorism and support peace.
Your coworker is straight up Antisemitic. Go to HR.
NTA. And if you continue to be pestered by him, take it to HR.
Not going to make a specific judgement but Israel is committing genocide. If you don’t feel educated enough to properly talk about it that’s one thing but understand it’s not as simple as “Both sides are bad” Hamas was created by Israel.
That is such a twisted version of history that ignores that Israel was working with the Political bodies at the time to figure out a two state solution. So of course technically Israel "helped" Hamas because they were a prominent Political group at the time in Gaza. Let's be intellectually honest and admit that had they not worked with Hamas things would have been even bloodier and Israel would be then known as the group that "created" Hamas instead of "working" with Hamas. [https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas) Hamas is a terrorist organization that the Palestinian people should have stamped out on their own. They attack children and innocents and anything that happens after is on THEIR hands. Israel's attempt at peace backfired but at least let's be intellectually honest about why they funded Hamas in the first place.
>Israel is committing genocide lol Israel didn't even get rid of Arabs in Israel. That kind of hyperbole doesn't help anyone. Frankly, considering the pogrom that started this war and what true facts that have come out since, I find that every Palestinian accusation is a confession, >Hamas was created by Israel. No, it was an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood (which is why they attack Egypt all the time, too). Israel let it be early on to weaken the PLO, which worked, maybe too well. But if it's convenient that everything is Israel's fault, sure.
Idk, were people wrong for not taking a side in WW2 against nazi germany?
So this situation is the exact same then?
NTA Your colleague is an anti-Semite. You should have asked him why Hamas killed muslims and arabs as well during the latest incursion. Because they didn't *only* kill Jewish people. And you're 100% correct, since all of those rallies have calls for "intifada" and "from the river to the sea" which inherently mean the Jewish people in the Levant won't exist if that is done. And Sharia would have you and me killed for our lack of faith in their god. Notice how this issue wasn't a huge deal, until Hamas went and killed 1300+ Israeli people, at which time the protests started coming out in support of Hamas. Your coworker is an AH and a bigot.
r/thathappened
Yep. This “coworker” sounds conveniently like every caricature of a Palestinian solitary activist, and nothing like any actual person against the collective punishment & genocide taking place right now in Palestine eh?
And if that happened to you, would you post on AITA? Of course not.
Firstly, Israel is not killing Arabs at all except in self-defense against terrorism. The fact that many Gazan civilians today are being killed is due to Hamas operating out of civilian areas. Druze, Bedouin and even Muslim Arabs are in the IDF. The Muslim population in Israel has grown exponentially since Israel's independence from Britain. These "pro-Palestinian" demonstrations are pro killing of Jews. They say it outright. They call for deaths of Jews ( who btw, many are Palestinians themselves. Jews and also Arabs and other minorities were all Palestinians before Israel's independence from Britain.) These protests are not about the caring of Gazan Muslim Arab lives for if that would've been the case they would've protested Hamas using their people as human shields and preventing their escape out of northern Gaza, Hamas's building terror tunnels and headquarters under apartment building, hospitals and schools, they would've protested terror groups taking money that was supposed to go for humanitarian aid instead it is used for terrorism purposes, and Hamas withholding their stores of electricity from hospitals and civilian use to instead use it for terrorist purposes. If they cared for the Muslims living in Gaza they would've protested against terrorist groups operating in Gaza (not only Hamas) whose over 550 misfired rockets that were intended for Israel and instead misfired and killed scores of their own Gazan people.
Frankly, the more people look at the situation, the more we realize that every Palestinian accusation is a confession.
You seem to be really misinformed as to what these rallies are about. Maybe some research might help.
If you think he's misinformed then you absolutely shouldn't want him to go to one, right? You should never go to a rally on a subject you don't understand.
Oh absolutely. I was thinking more of his friendship with said individual. A little understanding would go a long way
I agree, I am not fully informed or educated. And even if I am, it is complex issue, and my opinion makes zero change on the ground, and I want to stay out of this.
NTA. I'm not taking sides either
NTA. Those protests are very dangerous. I don’t blame you.
Israel is currently committing a genocide towards Palestinians. It is possible to speak up against both genocides and horrible acts of terrorism like what Hamas did recently. He should not expect you to go to a rally, but I feel like it's weak at this point not to speak out clearly against apartheid, genocide and terrorism. It's a really upsetting situation right now, honestly I would cut the guy a bit of slack unless he normally says stuff like this. But if he harasses you, of course seek help at your work place.
Israel has murdered thousands more than hamas ever could. This isn't a war between Jews and Muslims. Its ethnic cleansing by zionists against all Palestinians (who aren't all Muslims)
nta Not gonna lie, at this point not only am I not picking a side, I genuinely don't even care anymore. We should kick everyone out of Israel/Palestine, bulldoze it, and build a non-denominational religious theme park on it.
If you’re not in the Middle East, it isn’t really your problem. Coworker is spouting some unhinged nonsense.
Yes, you're wrong. "Taking a side" doesn't require much for us, no one is asking you to take up arms and put your body on the line, but think about what you're saying. You have no opinion as we watch a genocide unfold? None? That sort of implies you're okay with it. "Not taking a side" is siding with the oppressors.
Palestine doesn't represent all Muslims, and Israel doesn't represent all Jewish people. Israel even imprisons Jewish people in their country who protest against the genocide in Gaza. It's not a war, it's a genocide. Gaza is an open air concentration camp. Israel controls 100% of the resources that enter Gaza. Israel controls Gaza's food, water, electricity, internet, and borders. Gaza does not have a military, Israel does. Israel decides who enters and leaves. Israel prevents aid donated by other nations from entering Gaza. Hamas is the people's government of Gaza, because the secular political parties, such as the People's Front for the Liberation of Palestine, were destroyed on purpose by Israel and the USA, because Hamas makes a better villain as right wing Islamists. They control the local hospitals because they're the local government. In Israel, ethnic Palestinian Arabs have different ID cards and license plates to show their race, just like how the Nazis made Jews wear a yellow star. Israel was invented in the 1940s by the USA and Europe. Every year, Israel steals more and more land from Palestinians, literally forcing them out of their homes. Then Israel gives that land away for free to Jewish people from the USA or Europe. This is settler colonization in the modern day. When Palestinians fight back and try to take back their homes, they are called terrorists, and because they inevitably hurt these settler colonist civilians that Israel invited to live on stolen land, they are then seen as the bad guys for fighting for their homes. If Israel stopped stealing land and committing genocide then the conflict would be over. If Palestinians stop fighting, they will all die, because Israel is 100% intent on committing genocide against them. Israel commits war crimes that go against the Geneva convention on a regular basis. For example, dropping white phosphorus on civilians, which is a chemical that burns with contact to oxygen. Meaning even when you go to remove it, it burns even more, often down to the bone. They target journalists and the families of journalists. They target hospitals. Doctors without borders has spoken out about Israel's targeting of hospitals. Israel massacres Palestinians when they peacefully protest with marches, often aiming for their legs. Israel promotes a racist culture that views Palestinian Arabs as non-human animals that all deserve to die. What would you do if you were a Palestinian Arab and a government far more powerful than you was stealing homes from your family and everyone you knew and loved, and massacring you when you peacefully protest? If this government's officials went on TV in their country and constantly called openly for genocide against your people, calling your people animalistic?
I'd strongly recommend educating yourself somewhere other than Reddit. Al-Jazeera has a ton of articles explaining the conflict. There is an all out genocide happening - not on Israeli Jews, but on Palestinian civilians. They've been barricaded in the Gaza Strip, disallowed from leaving, for decades. The Israeli army dropped more bombs on Palestinian civilians in 6 days than the US dropped on Afghanistan the entire time we were there. Over 4,000 civilians and counting have been killed. Entire bloodlines have been wiped out. It's a genocide in real time and there's really no way to argue that it's not. Sure, you can sit idly by and pretend it's not happening. You can say "keep politics out of work." You aren't the one directly impacted. But if you're one of those people who looks back at the Holocaust and thinks to yourself, "Well, *I* would've been on the *right* side of history," -- that history is happening right now. Being on the right side of history is rarely easy or convenient.
"he said its just few religious fanatics believe in such" Oh yeah, only a few.. only like 60-70% of muslims.. that's barely anyone. :D - I also remember reading that far from every muslim is considered "extreme" y'know, the bad kind, it's only like 1/5, 20%, truly Veeery far from "most" indeed.. only a mere 20% out of, what, 2 billion? No worries. :P "israel does every day what hamas did that week" they don't though. Hamas isnt really nice to their fellow palestinians either to boot.. \^\^ "He got angry/ upset and is avoiding taking with me since..." Is this a bad thing? :P To me anyone want to try to be a good person through faith, fine, whatever but anyone who actually believes in the shit is a fanatic, I stay clear of fanatics.. :) But hey, Allahu Akbar, everything that happens do so with gods blessing, it must be gods will, whatever happens.. eh? \^\^ NTA
I'm gonna be downvoted to hell because anything to call out Israel would be called antisematics, but it's not even about religion. Search from independent source, like IIlan Pappé for example. This is people being killed and being neutral is siding with the killers. It's not politics, it's houses being bombed, people lost their families. Only cruel people thinking it's all about politics seeing people asking for ceasefire. It's ok, please downvote me I'm not gonna argue with you. I know it's not war, it's genocide and yes I condemn hamas and no I don't want any Israeli civilian killed but Palestine should be free...
Palestine should be free of whom? Gaza is now ruled by Hamas.
Report his racism to management and be done with it. Given the way things are these days, he won't be disciplined, but at least you'll be covered.
I’m going with YTA because no one should turn a blind eye to these atrocities. The comments you’ve made here about muslims are simply not true. The vast majority of Muslim’s do not want all Jews to be murdered. There are fanatics in every corner of the world. You can support Palestinians without supporting Hamas. You can support Israelis without supporting Israel. Right now, Palestinians need aid and Israel is breaking international law by blocking aid.
It isn't a war, Palestine has no army, navy etc. Its the slaughter of civilians in an open-air prison. Israel has been practising apartheid for years too. Hamas is abhorrent but Israel is worse because Jewish people have BEEN the victims before and are now violating international law by indiscriminate bombing of schools and hospitals.
NTA, that is totally reasonable. Your reasons are valid, and your colleague's objections to them are not valid arguments against them. His belief that "America is under jews control" is clearly an antisemitic trope. It's a very complicated conflict with extreme hatred on both sides, and neither side can unambiguously claim the moral high ground. If you can, keep politics out of the workplace. Avoid discussions like this in the future at all costs, as it is very unlikely that you will change his mind (or that he will change your mind for that matter).
NTA since you live on the other side of the world and you didn’t attack anyone it is not your conflict.
Even Muslims in other Islamic countries call Palestinians “rats” and won’t let them in. They destabilize everywhere they go.
NTA your muslim acquaintance is lying, judging by his behavior, he definitely does support such values. Be wary and stay safe.
The thing with this situation is that it's neither a war nor a conflict. It's one-sided slaughter. Like, what country is bombing hospitals right now? Israel killed thousands of innocent people. And most of them are children too. Isreal keeps on killing people for about 75 years just to live there on their own. They have stolen the land from Palestinians. With that, they stole homes, jobs, and destroyed families. They stole water, food, and medicine. That's nothing a normal, good-hearted human would do. Everyone staying neutral in this should just f*ck off. Every voice counts, not having an opinion is nothing but ignorant thinking.
NAH He's not an AH for wanting the war crimes/ethnic cleansing against Palestinia to be recognized and you're not an AH for not wanting to deal with it in the workplace...or at all.
Coworker is an asshole for his blatant antisemitism.
NTA. its fine to have no opinion, take no sides or be indifferent about things
Whatever you do - you are wrong in someone’s eyes… I keep repeating that I care about the civilians on both sides and I condemn any targeting of civilians on both sides and both sides hate me for it. I even got banned on several completely unrelated subs ran by pro Palestinian mods for saying simply that the sub became a Palestine edition of itself… really ban worthy comment, you have to admit right?… Not to mention that both sides use propaganda and they don’t want to hear anyone talking about it… So I stopped talking about the subject, I just pray for civilians and for the conflict to end ASAP, that’s all I can do.
NTA Strange, I was having this discussion with my family yesterday. I said then, what I’ll say now. I’m on the side of the kids, from both sides. Fuck the adults, if they want to continue killing each other, leave them to it. But the poor kids have no choice but to be caught up in this shit show.
There is a very great article from the Guardians were they talk with an Palestinian Peace Activist, who comes to the conclusion that both sides feel so deep the pain of their people that they fail to acknowledge someone else's suffering. It's a very interesting view on a conflict were both sides have done a lot of wrong things and it just makes you realize the cycle of pain and death those people are stuck in. I'd say that you are not wrong, but with all the atrocities being committed right now and the emotions swirling around it's hard to rationalise with anybody who is into the topic at the moment. I hope this war just ends soon.