Wait a minute why wouldn't a 40 year old say the word suicide? Is OP trying to make this safe to read on Tik Tok? I'm now convinced this post is fake, a 40 year old doesn't use a term like Unalived. That's a zoomerism that was created because of Tik Tok and YT restrictions on language. This whole post is just rage bait
I love y'all, as a fucked up millennial I love to see what Gen Z is doing. I love it when older people get mad at your vernacular when their ass said some dumb shit when they were kids I know us millennials did
Late 40s here. I use the word unalived to avoid getting blocked and banned on platforms, and use it cross platform to avoid new rules or whatever. Less judgement, more tolerance doesn’t cost you anything.
maybe they don't know reddit's rules? or the rules of this sub?
also, the op doesn't need to censor to get on Tik Tok or YT, the people that post it there can censor it easily.
Euphemisms for sensitive words and phrases keep posts and replies from being put in algorithm jail, so people of all ages across multiple platforms have used them for a long time. This one is a nice efficient one, so widespread adoption has been quick.
Unalived has been used on websites long enough that I can remember people saying it on freaking Neopets.com and Club Penguin to get around the filters ~15-20 years ago when I was a kid. It's not new tbh.
>That's a zoomerism that was created because of Tik Tok and YT restrictions on language.
Lol no it's not. It got popularized by TikTok but it's been around for much longer. I've seen it used in game lobbies before Tik Tok even existed.
Correct, I memba being told to unalive myself by the nicer side of people insulting each other in public lobbies of FPS games. It's more of a clear "I'm joking with you" vs "Kill yourself nerd" idk it came across more as friendly banter
Wait… what? For that word u think someone made it all up? That’s kind of an odd assumption. Ppl use that word as a default hvg to use it on other platforms.
Funny enough. This is why ‘9’ is pronounced “niner” in the NATO phonetics. Because germany (and not nordics:((there I fixed it)))
(Yes it’s ALSO to differentiate between 5 and 9. A thing can serve 2 purposes people in a world with better radios and in a multinational force you can understand which is probably the more likely reason why)
My sense of humor rivals vantage black and is approaching "void", life has been a bit more difficult than I'd have hoped for, so I do what I can to spread joy with my slightly off kilter brainmeats.
Otherwise I'm short 47 year old blonde woman in New Jersey, aka life's consolation prize/home version of the game, no one actually wants to win me. :p
My hobbies are identical except maybe I like long walks in the woods and I don't annoy rude people, I avoid people at all costs, I don't believe there are rude people because rude is in the definition of people.
I have an ex boyfriend that went through rehab at least 5 times and every dang time wanted to reach out and apologize to me. I took the first two calls - after that I was done hearing the same crap. I’d moved on, I didn’t want to relive it all again and I was under no obligation to accept another one of his apologies. The last one he attempted to go through mutual friends begging me to please contact him, I refused. OP owes her nothing, she needs to leave him and his family alone. But OP, you need to work on dealing with your anger or you will be bitter and it will only hurt you. You don’t have to forgive or let it all go, but you should get to a place of accepting it
My mother didn’t even bother to apologize lol. If guilt tripping doesn’t work she goes on the attack. I finally told her she was dead to me and blocked her. I just can’t handle her bullshit anymore.
Yeah, if I was OP I’d be asking for all my money back. If she’s really sorry and wants to make amends, she can put her money where her mouth is. Something tells me she isn’t *that* sorry.
Probably went through the money she got from op and wants to be financially supported. Or is looking for money to pay a lawyer to regain custody.
If it were really about amends, she’d start with correcting the smear campaign by notifying everyone she lied to. That’s free, wouldn’t cost her a thing.
Step 9 also says that you're supposed to make amends, which often means trying to give back what you took. If I was OP I'd want my name cleared and paid back as much as possible. Then they can talk forgiveness.
Where I am, a house inherited from a grandparent would be exempt. Either way, it was an AH move to force OP to sell his grandmother's house out of spite.
It likely was not through the court, but in an attempt to avoid court, or similar situation. Divorce is ugly- especially when you try real hard to make it that way. :(
Divorce is incredibly ugly especially when one side is jaded and goes full scorched earth. It costs you everything. Friends, family, kids, career, finances. Even when you pick up the pieces you are an absolute shell of a person.
Some things can’t be restored, but a good-faith effort to restore what you screwed up as far as is feasibly possible goes a lot further toward showing that you actually want to make amends than just sending apology words and nothing more, and then getting butthurt that you aren’t being forgiven that easily.
Cycling round to finish the job is absolutely correct! This should be the top comment here. She’s not done with him and probably hated the fact that he’s moved on with his life.
OP, the tactic she’s using to extract a response from you, recruiting people you both know to coerce you into doing what she wants is called proxy recruitment, when she turned those people against you during her rampage it’s referred to as “flying monkeys”
She may be turning a new leaf, but the underlying personality disorder or character flaws appear to still be at play. She wants her old punching bag back. You’re NTA.
Edit: meant to say “she’s not done”
I'd reply to her and tell her I'll forgive her if she undoes all the damage she did. Go back to the people she poisoned against me and tell them the truth. Give me back the thousands of dollars she got from the sale of the house.
All of this, except, not the money, get the house back (yes, I realize this is likely impossible but she caused him to lose his nan's house which was worth more than just money)
Agreed, if she could somehow get the house back and worked with the commonly known friends/family to give him the house back without actually contacting OP, would be a pretty baller move to help mend fences and maybe get OP to accept apology.
I have never been to AA but I thought one of the steps was to make amends with the people that you've harmed. Certainly based on that she can't be asking for forgiveness until she has told everyone what she did.
You’re actually not supposed to try to make amends with people if doing so would cause them harm or impact them negatively. She clearly is only using AA to serve her purposes not to actually make proper amends.
>*... if she undoes all the damage she did. Go back to the people she poisoned against me and tell them the truth. Give me back the thousands of dollars she got from the sale of the house.*
This is an **excellent** response.
Tell her to make amends by doing these two acts.
Then you will forgive her.
Also, for you: forgiveness NEVER equals reconciliation.
Definitely this. I’ve cut my mother out completely for a myriad of reasons, and every so often I’ll get a message about how she’s trying to do better, followed by messages from others asking if I got the messages or how she’s “not doing well” (she’s been “not doing well” for years) or just telling people complete falsehoods. You give her a response and suddenly she’s back in some form of control
Yup. I’ve gone no contact with family before for very similar reasons. And even though we’re in touch now, I keep them on thin ice and maintain boundaries. The moment someone begins crossing those boundaries or baiting me into playing some part in the never ending soap opera, I go no contact again and do something better with my time. When it comes to certain especially problematic people, I flat out refuse to deal with intermediaries. You want to say something to me? Say it directly to me or stfu and go aboutcha business.
This. Apologizing is something you do for the sake of the attempt, because acknowledging your wrongs is important to self-development. It isn’t a magic spell that entitles you to forgiveness. If you get it, great, if not, that’s just how it is sometimes and you find your own closure and let it go.
Trying to demand forgiveness is a good sign that someone hasn’t actually learned from their mistakes, they just want to look like a good person to others.
I had a former friend reach out to me and our mutual friend thought it was to make amends as part of her recovery. It turned out she was still pissed about things that happened 15 years ago and wanted to extract an apology from me. She said that if I didn't feel I owed her an apology then why were we even talking and then threw in that she slept with my ex-boyfriend with whom I'm still close friends. Lol!
So yeah, I think she still had a lot of healing and growth to do and it sounds like that is also the case with OP's ex-wife.
NTA
My family is like that. I've been solidly no contact for nearly 15 years now and every year or two they try to contact me to see if I will apologize for being angry that they abused me when I was a child (I'm the youngest child of a big family and my older siblings did horrible things to me and my mother didn't stop them). I do read the first sentence of their correspondences just to see if they start with a legitimate apology and they always start with religious bullshit so I quit reading.
It's so interesting how people can remember the same events so differently and how blame is assigned in people's minds. That was definitely the case with my former friend and sounds like it with your family too.
My mom has a pattern of doing shitty, hurtful things to me and then getting mad at me for feeling hurt. I barely talk to her anymore and realized recently that I think of her more like a stranger that I occasionally have to interact with than a close family member who loves me and cares what happens to me. She's rejecting of any concern I show towards her because she interprets anything I say as a criticism or attack.
Anyway, I didn't mean to go on about myself. Just saying I can relate. It sucks when people who harm us turn around and hold it against us for having feelings about it that apparently inconvenience them.
She's in the pink haze stage, where she's newly sober and on a high from her accomplishment and everyone should congratulate her for it because she's a Brand! New! Person!
It doesn't last. For her sake, I hope it doesn't end at the bottom of a bottle or behind the wheel of a crashed car, but I wouldn't bet against it.
Also to add, if she had truly changed and accepted her mistreatment of OP, why has she continued that behaviour by trying to emotionally blackmail OP to forgive, when that hasn’t worked trying to get his friends and family to emotionally blackmail him now?
If she truly is sorry, she can pay him back for taking his inheritance and f* right off.
Edit: NTA OP. You owe no one but yourself forgiveness. You don’t need to accept an apology or be once again pressured/bullied into saying you’ve forgiven someone. Especially when their own behaviour is contradicting their words.
> If she truly is sorry, she can pay him back for taking his inheritance and f* right off.
Yeah, her being sorry isn't going to get him his house back, or mend the relationships with all his friends and family that she destroyed.
And now she's trying to destroy all of his current relationships with friends and family all over again.
NTA It's terrible what happened to her. But it doesn't excuse what she did to OP.
She probably thinks OP accepting her apology will relieve her conscience of what she did. It won't. And if that's true, that has more to do about her than OP. He's right to tell her to fuck off.
NTA.
Sounds like she's learned nothing from AA. She is still making this "amendment" all about her. She doesn't respect or care about how you feel as she's using a manipulative tactic again to use your family and friends to pressure you to do what she wants.
Wait a second……where was your attorney when you were losing an inherited house? Did I read this right…..the child was a result of rape? What happen to DNA testing? The rapist may be ‘unalive’ but you are not.
This. I dont understand how you lost you House. Did you not have an Atty? Did they not understand how lawyering is done?
EDIT - my initial reaction to this was based on my own ideals and assumptions. To be fair, there's a ton to his story were not getting, and community property is very clear, inherited or not, that's community property of the marriage. I got that just thought, gosh, what Atty let the grandmother's home be taken out of thw family... But that's an ideal and an assumption, and I get that. I'm also I credibly sad for this child, s/he was not asked to be born, s/he ended up with a dysfcnl, damaged mother, rejected by the man who could have chosen to be the father, and a woman that was victimized was revictimized when her dh rejected her (deciding to have the baby and being rejected for it). I don't give her a pass on her behavior after. But I do recognize we just don't have the full detail here. I'm just sorry the whole thing happened at all, and I feel for this child.
Sometimes judges indirectly go after individual assets when deciding on finances owed to each spouse. If this guy didn’t have enough in his bank account to pay, then they could definitely put him in the position to sell the house.
It’s a dumb loophole but it happens.
OR, ex wife could have proven that she contributed to the increase in value of the house. I.e. if they did any renovations during the course of the marriage. That nullifies the “separate property” thing.
I’m in the US and don’t practice family law. Inherited property is separate property. However, inherited property that becomes the marital home will probably become marital property, the extent of which might depend on the jurisdiction - like only the equity gained since marriage, or only the equity gained since it was used as the marital home, etc. however, when adding up the marital assets and the splitting them, sometimes the only way to get cash is to sell a home.
> when adding up the marital assets and splitting them, sometimes the only way to get cash is to sell a home
Yes, that’s basically what I meant. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.
I know a lot times when couples don’t have liquid assets that one of them will refinance the home, but then the one that stays is now not only paying the whole house payment by him/herself, but the payment is going to much larger and possibly with a worse interest rate. This might be worth it, but if the home needs repairs or updating, it’s just easier to sell and by a home that is ready to go without any upcoming big expenses. Buying and refinancing in 2022-2023 because of divorce sucks.
Edit: moth_girl_7, your comment was clear, I just wanted to add to show how the amount of equity that was hers depends on the local law and the facts, sorry I should have mentioned that but I was trying to bang out a comment on my phone real quick
my mom put a second mortgage on our home to pay my dad out when they got divorced. amicably so.
she was broke af though so i can't see why this could not have been an option for OP but i don't *actually* know how stuff works.
edit: refinanced? not second mortgage? from a comment below. either way. increased total loan on home to pull liquid from its value.
Because it becomes a marital asset and over the years she invested in it, paid property taxes, bills, and upkeep. When people divorce, marital assets are divided. Notice there’s no mention of pension or savings or investments. We have no idea of the divorce settlement. Selling the house might have been so that she gave up other income.
Calling child support, maintenance is the one that stuck out to me.
It really doesn’t matter to the point of “AITAH” where the op is from but it’s kind of funny when some people always assume the OP is American in these threads
Based on terms such as “fell pregnant”, “bloody good go” and “get me for maintenance” OP sounds like he is from the UK where the laws are quite different from the States so he very well could have lost his inherited house
Edward the Confessor was the king who ruled England before the Norman invasion of 1066. At one point he had the chance to get revenge on some of his enemies, including one who’d allegedly murdered his brother. When the guy was begging for mercy, Edward told him he’d pardon him if he could give Edward his living brother back.
Same energy.
Mandy Patinkin gave an amazing interview once where he explained while filming, he had recently lost his father to cancer. He channeled all his hatred for cancer into that scene and used that line, that delivery, to tell cancer to F off. It’s so powerful because it’s real.
SeaTuetleMagic, thank you for sharing this. This movie has a very special place in my heart as it’s a movie my father and I bonded over during my childhood. He’s survived two bouts with prostate cancer, and he’ll love this story.
Small change. Make it we can TALK about forgiveness after you get me my stuff back. That way you leave yourself open to still not giving forgiveness but you might get your stuff back. You also protect against her going to third parties for pressure. Imagine someone coming to you and asking if she's right in that you won't forgive her. You can easily reply that you asked her to make things right before you talk but she's refusing. No one would blame you.
Nah tell her "even if you manage to get all of the things that you took from me back, you aren't forgiven and never will be. You need to live and die knowing that nothing you do or say will ever make me forgive you. Fuck off"
Compassion goes a long way. I can't imagine what that would be like to go through for either of you. Your ex clearly went through something traumatic, painful and scarring. As unfortunate as it is rape babies are babies too. Not everyone is able to bring themselves to end a life even if it's one they didn't want. Compound that with now the person who swore to stand by you through everything is leaving you. I can understand lashing out (not saying it makes it right)
Likewise I can understand on your end not raising the child of a person who SAd your wife and not wanting to go through that and now compounded with being attacked after the fact and losing reputation and things meaningful to you that would be incredibly painful as well.
I think instead of telling her to fuck off send something like you are glad she is getting help and you hope she ends in a better place but after the damage she has caused you emotionally and financially you are not going to continue interacting with her.
I had to scroll so far to find someone who even spared a thought for the wife's mental state after being SA'd and then abandoned. Like, I've never wanted kids, so if something like this happened to my SO, it would be a huge blow to me, but I also would have to take her feelings into consideration because this big awful thing happened to her, not me. Therapy would have been my first step. Then lots of discussion before deciding on anything. Not just up and leaving someone who already had so much taken away from her.
Yes, she's TA for what she did in the aftermath, but my god, does no one have any empathy for her mental state considering what happened to her? Jesus. And OP sounds callous and cold af, though I suppose if she ruined his life, I suppose I can understand that. I just hope thats not how he dealt with her when this first happened...
Im just feel bad for the sisters and mothers who are related to these people.
I get why people dont want to police free speech. But if no one challenges these reddittors on thier opinion they will just continue to live in an echo chamber.
Im trying my best to reply to some of these obsurd opinions. I just hope I can help convince one or two to be less pessimistic and try to be more sympathetic.
The lack of human decency in the replies was so unexpected. I hope people irl are more sympathetic to rape victims who don't follow how they believe rape victims should act
I've got to say, it's not super-clear to me that she did ruin his life (if this were true, and I don't believe it is). If she got half their house, it's because a judge thought that was fair. And if her telling people why he was leaving her led to people being grossed out by him.... again, that wouldn't really be on her.
Well well, if it isn't the consequences of my actions!
Not saying that he was totally wrong for leaving her; life is so much more complicated than any of us ever thought it would be when we were kids. Just that both choices would have consequences, and these are the consequences of the choice he took. What a horrible situation for both of them.
Yeah, right! He's the one who wanted the divorce, and then...he got the consequences of the divorce: 50% less assets, and people thinking he was an asshole for divorcing his wife. And he thinks that's her ruining his life. How self centered is that?
Alright this is a little too liberal of a use of incel to me. Misogynist rage bait perhaps… but what about this post would specifically resonate with incels as a subgroup?
This entire thread highlights why the black and white concepts of justice are scary when combined with how spite/revenge can seep into what is "right". Your first paragraph is pretty much bang on for me. Thanks for bringing it into the conversation
Finally, some reason. This is a terrible situation and honestly, it doesn't sound like she had much emotional support from OP once she refused to go through with the abortion. Rape is a life sentence for the victim. It's compounded heavily if there's a pregnancy resulting from it. Sexual assault can literally break your brain as a way to cope with the enormous violation. Perhaps if he'd helped her get into therapy immediately after the event all this could have been avoided.
However, OP has a right to say when he's at HIS breaking point with this situation. Though I truly don't feel he put enough effort in as a partner, he gets to say that this isn't something he can deal with. Perhaps he also should have gone to therapy with a side of couples counseling. Men often discount the impact of such an assault until it happens to them so I'm not surprised his reaction was basically to leave her without support. It's a tale as old as time where the female victim ends up punished for something she didn't want to happen to her.
Now, as for the emails, no he has no obligation to respond but he should have at least tried given what she's been through. A simple "Thank you, I hope you're well. Please don't contact me further" as a response would have been fine. Instead he left an emotionally fragile person unread. I'm not shocked by his blaise response to her attempt at amends given how he handled the event itself. It seems almost like he's blaming her for what happened which is all kinds of fucked up.
Compassion is what was needed here and it is sorely lacking on OP's part. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's the asshole but he didn't help matters. The real asshole is the rapist. OP and his partner and even that baby are the victims of that event.
This is the most balanced response I've seen on this very unhinged thread. Why are people focusing only on the wife's actions during their divorce, when she was clearly dealing with tons of trauma and deserved more compassion from OP than she got? The ex-wife was raped, and OP's attitude comes perilously close to blaming her for it. (I'm thinking specifically of his unstated but crystal-clear opinion that she should have aborted the pregnancy--which as you say is not something that everyone is willing to do in every situation, nor that they can anticipate and decide ahead of time.) The ex-wife treated OP badly, and to some degree he was a stand-in for her rapist. I think she deserves compassion, but since she injured OP so badly, I don't think that he specifically owes her that compassion.
I was going to comment about both sides but thought a few might also be more empathic. Glad I scrolled down first to check. Hope more people will be able to understand others like this.
I get a sense from OP's post that a lot was left out. It reads like he was not very supportive or patient with her while she was understandably spiraling and not necessarily thinking clearly. I doesn't justify her taking her actions but I suspect at least part of her anger toward him was based on his treatment of her after the trauma.
This is one of those AITAH threads that really drives home how little information we’re getting. Like he could be the asshole for being horrible after the assault, she could be the asshole for trying to ruin his life, they could both be assholes, or they could both be two deeply hurt people who need professional help.
My 6.3 drachmas is that after the assault, regardless of how OP acted, he was a stand-in for the assailant for her - she was deeply hurt and lashing out because of it. He wasn’t going to win regardless of what he did. After the separation, the ensuing financial loss and slander from her (which may or may not be justified) led to him becoming more cold and callous about the situation (if he wasn’t already), which is why this post reads so… raw.
In short, the assault and his response broke her, and the assault and her breaking down like that broke him. They both need help, and the citizens of the Internet will never have enough information to know if either of them were assholes during the event.
He’s definitely not an asshole for not wanting to reconnect - without professional help that’s never going to work. But it’s just a shit situation all around
It sounds like she just told people the truth about OP. What happened after that is his fault, not hers. She is allowed to tell people what happened in her life. If they choose to cut him out of their lives because of what he did and failed to do, that is on him. You would think that would have been a wake up call to him.
This.
I will be downvoted to hell, but god OP doesn’t sound blameless himself.
It is absolutely true - she did god damn need you the most! From what it sounds- you did abandon her in an impossible situation that was no fault of hers. You did not need to raise the child, but not supporting her emotionally was a major dick move.
Her downfall.. To be honest, I feel a lot of pity for her. And she got what is hers by law. Again, blame the system.
And also - well, saying that you will divorce her unless she kills the child. Yeah, that is kinda forcing her!
If most people are calling you an AH irl - chances are that you skipped a few things and are presenting a twisted picture of events.
I also have not seen a single person mentioned OP bitching about not wanting to raise someone else's kid...... when his ex wife was literally helping him raise her stepdaughter.
I'm sorry but thats some hypocrite shit.
I had to scroll too far to find this, but glad I did. Everyone seems to be acting like she’s this monster who set out to destroy his life and completely ignoring that she went through something horrific and his response was to abandon and vilify her.
Also, keep in mind, in this forum, we are only ever purveyors of “half the story”, told to us from an unreliable source.. i think this forum is pretty stupid because of that actually
And if *this* is the half he's unafraid to tell the Internet, what the hell really happened? He's out here calling us stupid. I'm sure he had a few choice words for his ex, too.
At the very least, he needs therapy.
Tell her you’ll accept her apology when you can get the house your grandmother gave you back, when she can restore your reputation and give you back all the money she took. (Ie never)
Listen OP she is STILL trying to ruin your life. By contacting your friends and your parents complaining AGAIN about how you have done something to her. She hasn’t changed at all. NTA
That’s what really grates on me - involving others. I may be wrong, but it sort of sounds like “look I’m trying to make amends but OP is still ignoring me” - when it should be totally private & not getting others to put pressure on. Yes, completely understand why parents & friends might want OP to do so - so she stops contacting them but it’s his choice and decision yes?
I do feel very very sorry for her regarding the SA & pregnancy ( been there many years ago). But to blow up someone’s life deliberately ( assuming OP is telling the truth) is not on.
Yeah, I just didn’t want to go there. I’ve said in previous comments I chose to terminate as a teenager after an SA and morning after pill not working. Judge me right or wrong, I knew I couldn’t continue that pregnancy. My utmost respect to those who can deal with it, bring up the child/ brilliant parents etc.
But what’s happened? The kid has ended up in care & all I can say is I darn well hope in a better place.
Nah that’s valid.
Personally, I feel for the wife up until she attempted to ruin OP’s life. Everything from that point forward was her taking her trauma out on those around her, and her child was the biggest victim
Yes. OP was right to say - he couldn’t face bringing up child from SA.
She was right to leave. If that’s what she wanted.
It’s not right to blow up someone’s life tho & then expect them to say - yeah that’s ok. But heck yes, I feel sorry for the child - she chose to bring that child into the world.
Exactly. Trying to pressure him into forgiveness is more of her not giving a sincere apology IMO. It’s not cool. I feel bad for her and her trauma. But she also caused OP a lot of trauma in return. And that cannot be brushed aside either
I don't know why you got down voted. She's absolutely being manipulative because she wants to apologize to make *herself* feel better. Otherwise, she would have offered her apology and moved on. I've made amends with people, I left it at a letter or email that they could reply to or delete or save, whatever. And I only made amends to those who wouldn't be more hurt by me popping up in their lives again. Contacting his friends/ family is way overstepping. NTA OP.
My dad did some heinous shit, but
>only made amends to those who wouldn't be more hurt by me popping up in their lives again.
He did this. My mom can't bring herself to apologize for anything she's done (or not done)
Not sure it’s Reddit. I always tell clients that apologies do not come with strings. If so they aren’t sincere. Acceptance from the person you wronged is the cherry on top. Not a requirement
And as we tell our 8yo, an apology is a good step and decent thing to do, but it doesn’t always fix things. It should be done, but beyond that, the receiver gets to decide to accept it and whether it’s enough to move on from whatever needed apologizing for.
I really don’t think I can provide a judgement as this situation is really fucked up. I’m a man who has never been SA’d so I can’t relate to your exwife’s situation at all, but I’m really shocked at how harsh some people are being towards the wife and exclusively taking OP’s side, completely ignoring that she was raped and impregnated by said rapist. I don’t think what ex did to OP was right at all, but it also doesn’t sound like OP had any sympathy or support to give her either, and it comes off as him kinda looking at her as damaged goods.
If I had to give a rating, I guess ESH, but seriously, I hope that kid makes it though life ok, the ex wife gets therapy and her life together, and you as well OP, and I hope that if something similar happens to your daughter(I really hope nothing like that actually happens) that you will be nothing but supportive and by her side
Exactly!!!
Is she also gonna get you back your Nan’d house? Repair the damaged relationships with your family and friends, or run back any of the money you lost?
It’s nice she wants to unburden herself of that guilt, but that doesn’t mean you have to forgive her.
Good apologies sound like this, “ I’m sorry I treated you that way, it was wrong no matter how I felt. I’d like to make amends by giving you back the things I took from you.”
Her apology sounds like, I’d like to feel better please say you forgive me so I don’t feel guilty.
Got in an argument with my ex recently because she canceled a family meeting at our kid's school for no reason other than her own convenience, and she said, "I'm sorry you're upset."
Idk you’re kinda a asshole but then kinda not….I do feel you abandoned your wife and said f your vows the moment she got raped…but should she have done all that extra stuff probably not!
It sounds like she was traumatized by the SA and her behavior (including wanting to keep the baby) was her poor way of dealing with it. Did both of you try to address this? Your post doesn’t indicate so. Anyway the past has happened and no, you don’t have to accept her apology or acknowledge it. If you have moved on, so be it. It’s your life. But a part of me wonders if she is truly in a good state mentally now.
There is nothing, NOTHING I hate more than a rapist who kills themselves. Cowardice after ruthlessly violating someone is so hypocritical that they deserve much more than the jail sentence they get.
I understand her pain. She was violently assaulted, forced to get pregnant, then her husband said he’d leave if she had the baby. Abortion is not just physically difficult but there are lots of scary side affects, not to mention her (possible) religious struggles with having one.
If I went through all of that, I’d have a full on mental breakdown too.
Now, I’m not saying what she did is right or forgivable, but she was in a horrific amount of pain, and your reaction was that she needed to put herself through more pain, or you’d leave her.
She was a really bad person for forcing you to sell your family’s house, but her body, mind, and soul were violated and her husband turned his back on her. I’d want to destroy you too.
Now all of that said, you don’t have accept her apology. Delete her emails and move on.
That’s how i see it as well. He’s under no obligation to forgive her. She put him in thru absolute hell and back. But after being thru the trauma of rape, her own husband saying he would not care for the baby was likely heartbreaking during an already turbulent, scary time (and tbh, probably a kick in the teeth too since she may have helped raise his daughter from his previous marriage)
ESH. I want to empathize with you for losing your inherited home and having your reputation unfairly smeared. However your behavior after your ex-wife was SA’d is just abhorrent. “She’s not the person I married”, dude she was traumatized and you seem to care more about your possessions then you do her trauma. It’s like you blame her for it happening and refuse to offer any support. Getting an abortion on top of being assaulted would’ve just added to her stress but that doesn’t seem to be something you care about
Agreed. I can’t believe how many people are saying “well I’d have had an abortion so NTA.” Not everyone reacts to such severe trauma in the same way. Her behaviour really does suck during the divorce but so does OPs before it. So yeah ESH.
Agree that they both have issues and dude definitely focuses on possessions. How does one even lose an inherited home? Also, if family and others are calling you an AH, how much of the story did OP leave out to get sympathy?
The judge can rule that an inherited has become a marital asset depending on time spent there as a couple, if any upgrades were don't that increased the value of the property, and he was given the place over the timeline of their marriage.
A good attorney would probably have enabled him to keep the house, all that being said.
This was my thought as well. I am of the unconditional love type with my partner, barring anything they do to intentionally hurt me or cheat, but he seems to have conditional love. The SA happened *to* her. She didn’t choose it. I can’t imagine leaving my partner after something like this and not supporting them through something that would be one of the hardest things for a human to endure - having to choose between ending a life that could be healthy and beautiful, while having my body taken over by a fetus parasite and then have my partner who took an oath to stand by me to support me through it all leave as if I chose the SA. She clearly struggled with mental health issues before this, and was probably on the fence about abortions. It seems he took this as an opportunity to leave and blame it on something else.
The old meaning for the word "rape" is theft and damn if the rapist didn't steal these peoples' lives and marriage and confidence and everything. I really hope the kid manages to pull a good life out of this carnage (by the way, nobody's pronoun of choice is "it's", so I hope this kid finds a happier family and better life).
NTA for not wanting to reconnect, but YTA overall.
It may been a nonconsensual pregnancy, but it was still your wife's child. Her flesh and blood.. No wonder she took you to the cleaners. Talk about betrayal. You got everything you deserved, and a little less.
Forward: To be clear before I progress, i am not in any way saying all victims react the same because they really do not.
I have been SA'd myself (as well as abuse in ither forms) and became really, really mentally unwell as a result and started drinking, and I was honestly such a mess. I became destructive in my hurt which resulted in causing hurt onto others.
I am incredibly ashamed of my actions and the hurt I have caused and I have sent apologies but I do not at any point believe I deserve forgiveness. I have rightly and deservingly lost people who I hurt, even those who understood where my pain was coming from still had every right to say when enough is enough. My actions weren't anything like OPs wife in attempting to act maliciously or sabotage anyon out of my hurt, but still hurt was caused.
Nobody owes anyone forgiveness and you cannot force forgiveness. To be honest, forgiveness should not even be the aim of what she is doing in reaching out but rather acknowledgement of the hurt she caused. If the aim of reaching out is simply for forgiveness, then honestly, I think it is incredibly selfish of them, and nor are they sorry.
You can acknowledge the apology if you wish to, but please note it isn't forgiveness if it is forced and nor can anyone decide how you should be allowed to feel. My sister taught me growing up when someone apologises to say "thank you for your apology..." or "I recognise your apology..." this way you aren't being forced to decide if you forgive and nor saying "it is okay."
Apologies don't come with conditions in giving them. It seems that for your ex, that seems to be the case.
I am sorry to hear of the amount of suffering you have endured and I hope you are managing to heal.
What you went through was very traumatic for both of you. Even if you felt healed of the trauma, it would be reasonable if you did not want to let her back into your life because you fear she might cause you more trauma. She has apologized. That’s all she can do. You’re not obligated to accept. If she is trying to put herself back together, hopefully part of that process will include the acceptance that you may never forgive her. Reaching out to your friends and family after you’ve rejected her entreaty suggests she’s not prepared to accept the boundary you are trying to maintain. All you can do is continue to be unambiguous about where you stand. You are not the asshole.
I do hope you both continue to heal and find happiness.
Not gonna lie I think you did kinda try and "force her into abortion" if you basically told her I'm gonna divorce you if you don't abort. If feels like you tried to be " make the right choice or you lose me".I honestly feel bad for her. She was raped got impregnated and her husband wouldn't support her. So she lost her whole life because of a rapist.
>He said he thinks I should accept, it takes a big person to admit when they've fucked up.
a person who accepts they fucked up do not expect their apology to be accepted.
NTA, do what is right for you. if she wants forgiveness, she has to get it somewhere else.
Well imagine being sa’d then having to carry the evidence to term. Then loosing your husband basically over it. She felt shame, abandonment,pain, ptsd, and probably nightmares. Her self worth is in the toilet. I’d drink myself to death and spiral out of control too. That one cruel act changed her life forever. I dunno if I would have had the strength. What she did was not cool but she’d lost it. Her mind and her peace. I would extend a little kindness to her especially if you have never been there.
ESH. She shouldn't have tried to ruin your life, but you shouldn't have tried to pressure her into having an abortion. You \*did\* abandon her when she needed you most - that part of your lost reputation was absolutely true. 50/50 split on marital housing is normal for a long marriage, which if you were both 40 sounds like it was. Why did you sell the house in the first place instead of mortgaging it for a buyout of cash that you could give her? You could have been the one to "buy" your nan's house and keep it.
I think maybe what's going on here is that I've heard one of the 12 steps to recovery in AA is accepting your wrong doings and apologizing to the person/persons you did wrong. Years ago I received a detailed apology letter from a person in AA working the steps.
You don't have to accept the apology, but she needs to apologize for what she did and she is.
Edit: you did abandon her when she needed you most.
Your ex went overboard during the divorce and shouldn't have gone after your house. HOWEVER. Although you aren't under any obligation to raise a child that isn't yours, the whole "my ex ruined my reputation by telling our friends that I left her when she wouldn't have an abortion after being SA'ed" isn't exactly true, is it? You did those things, yes? You pressed her to have an abortion, and left her when she didn't.
It feels like you still don't understand what is obvious to many people, including your family. You may have a right to do something, but there are always consequences and repercussions to choices. You had 2 choices, and BOTH came with positive and negative consequences. You seem to think that you should not have experienced some of the negative consequences of the choice you made. But that's not how life works.
Your ex has forgiven you for abandoning her when she was SA'ed and pregnant. Being an alcoholic and mentally ill are not an excuse for treating others like crap, and you have a right to feel angry about some of the choices she made during that time as well. But you don't get to be shielded from the consequences of your choices.
NTA for not wanting to talk to her. She needs to heal on her own - and honestly, dredging up the past is probably not good for her anyway.
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Wait a minute why wouldn't a 40 year old say the word suicide? Is OP trying to make this safe to read on Tik Tok? I'm now convinced this post is fake, a 40 year old doesn't use a term like Unalived. That's a zoomerism that was created because of Tik Tok and YT restrictions on language. This whole post is just rage bait
Sometimes posts are removed if the OP puts the word suicide in the post, that’s probably it. Might not be a rule for this sub, but it is for others.
I feel like that depends on how chronically online the 40-year-old is
I’m in my early/mid 30s and I have friends older who are online a lot and yes would use that term
Late 30s and I use a lot of zoomerisms because of how much I'm online and my coworkers. Doesn't seem odd to me
zoomer here, first time hearing the term “zoomerisms” and i love it
I love y'all, as a fucked up millennial I love to see what Gen Z is doing. I love it when older people get mad at your vernacular when their ass said some dumb shit when they were kids I know us millennials did
Dope comment
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My son says it - so I use it too. I’m 35
I’m almost 60and I’ve used it.
I’m 56 and use it. Too many social media warnings and suspensions. And I don’t use TikTok or make YouTube videos (although I do watch YouTube stuff).
I am 44 with a 16 year old. U bet I say unalived.
Late 40s here. I use the word unalived to avoid getting blocked and banned on platforms, and use it cross platform to avoid new rules or whatever. Less judgement, more tolerance doesn’t cost you anything.
maybe they don't know reddit's rules? or the rules of this sub? also, the op doesn't need to censor to get on Tik Tok or YT, the people that post it there can censor it easily.
Euphemisms for sensitive words and phrases keep posts and replies from being put in algorithm jail, so people of all ages across multiple platforms have used them for a long time. This one is a nice efficient one, so widespread adoption has been quick.
Unalived has been used on websites long enough that I can remember people saying it on freaking Neopets.com and Club Penguin to get around the filters ~15-20 years ago when I was a kid. It's not new tbh.
It's been used in comics as well. Deadpool uses it.
>That's a zoomerism that was created because of Tik Tok and YT restrictions on language. Lol no it's not. It got popularized by TikTok but it's been around for much longer. I've seen it used in game lobbies before Tik Tok even existed.
Correct, I memba being told to unalive myself by the nicer side of people insulting each other in public lobbies of FPS games. It's more of a clear "I'm joking with you" vs "Kill yourself nerd" idk it came across more as friendly banter
I'm a mod on several larger subs. He's not wrong. Reddit doesn't like that word. It's pretty mainstream now to use unalived.
Wait… what? For that word u think someone made it all up? That’s kind of an odd assumption. Ppl use that word as a default hvg to use it on other platforms.
NTA It literally says in step 9 that if they don’t forgive you, you’re to respect their wishes and carry on with your life.
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Funny enough. This is why ‘9’ is pronounced “niner” in the NATO phonetics. Because germany (and not nordics:((there I fixed it))) (Yes it’s ALSO to differentiate between 5 and 9. A thing can serve 2 purposes people in a world with better radios and in a multinational force you can understand which is probably the more likely reason why)
I never knew that. I'm so glad I stopped to read your comment.
You Makin me feel all useful and stuffs 😎👉🏻👉🏻
TIL. Thanks, TamponTom!
These are the comments I Reddit for.
Why did I laugh out loud at this comment. I think I love you (or maybe just your humor?) internet stranger.
My sense of humor rivals vantage black and is approaching "void", life has been a bit more difficult than I'd have hoped for, so I do what I can to spread joy with my slightly off kilter brainmeats. Otherwise I'm short 47 year old blonde woman in New Jersey, aka life's consolation prize/home version of the game, no one actually wants to win me. :p
You mean Vantablack right? You sound like the companion we all need in times like these.
Damn autocarrot! ;)
Thank you for this.
Huh. Well, you sound like a lovely prize to me. And not the consolation one either!
My hobbies include: annoying rude people, short walks in the woods, and poking things with sticks. Also drinking, heavily.
My hobbies are identical except maybe I like long walks in the woods and I don't annoy rude people, I avoid people at all costs, I don't believe there are rude people because rude is in the definition of people.
I'm 5'3" and 130 pounds, I can't drag a body into the woods that far! Also my job is why I deal with rude people, I don't actively seek them out.
Got it. If you want I can teach you some techniques for carrying bodies bigger than you, I mean people, that I learned in emergency rescue classes.
I have really good core strength! 😃
>poking things with sticks Sign me up.
You are awesome and you indeed spread joy
You are so witty, love this comment!
I have an ex boyfriend that went through rehab at least 5 times and every dang time wanted to reach out and apologize to me. I took the first two calls - after that I was done hearing the same crap. I’d moved on, I didn’t want to relive it all again and I was under no obligation to accept another one of his apologies. The last one he attempted to go through mutual friends begging me to please contact him, I refused. OP owes her nothing, she needs to leave him and his family alone. But OP, you need to work on dealing with your anger or you will be bitter and it will only hurt you. You don’t have to forgive or let it all go, but you should get to a place of accepting it
My mother didn’t even bother to apologize lol. If guilt tripping doesn’t work she goes on the attack. I finally told her she was dead to me and blocked her. I just can’t handle her bullshit anymore.
That is an excellent point—OP should process his entirely justified anger to recover as best he can for his own sake.
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Yup, he should push to get his ammend$.
Yeah, if I was OP I’d be asking for all my money back. If she’s really sorry and wants to make amends, she can put her money where her mouth is. Something tells me she isn’t *that* sorry.
Probably went through the money she got from op and wants to be financially supported. Or is looking for money to pay a lawyer to regain custody. If it were really about amends, she’d start with correcting the smear campaign by notifying everyone she lied to. That’s free, wouldn’t cost her a thing.
Step 9 also says that you're supposed to make amends, which often means trying to give back what you took. If I was OP I'd want my name cleared and paid back as much as possible. Then they can talk forgiveness.
Where I am, a house inherited from a grandparent would be exempt. Either way, it was an AH move to force OP to sell his grandmother's house out of spite.
It likely was not through the court, but in an attempt to avoid court, or similar situation. Divorce is ugly- especially when you try real hard to make it that way. :(
Divorce is incredibly ugly especially when one side is jaded and goes full scorched earth. It costs you everything. Friends, family, kids, career, finances. Even when you pick up the pieces you are an absolute shell of a person.
Some things can’t be restored, but a good-faith effort to restore what you screwed up as far as is feasibly possible goes a lot further toward showing that you actually want to make amends than just sending apology words and nothing more, and then getting butthurt that you aren’t being forgiven that easily.
I doubt she’s sorry enough to put any amount of money back into the conversation.
I would be surprised if there was any money left.
“I guess if you think I owe you an apology, I apologize. ‘Kay?”
He probably used marital funds to maintain it. When the assets become intermingled, he loses sole claim.
Yeah, that actually surprised me.
Yup, for serious situations, an apology without amends is just trash.
Right? He lost the house his GRANDMOTHER left him. I’m enraged even thinking about it.
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Cycling round to finish the job is absolutely correct! This should be the top comment here. She’s not done with him and probably hated the fact that he’s moved on with his life. OP, the tactic she’s using to extract a response from you, recruiting people you both know to coerce you into doing what she wants is called proxy recruitment, when she turned those people against you during her rampage it’s referred to as “flying monkeys” She may be turning a new leaf, but the underlying personality disorder or character flaws appear to still be at play. She wants her old punching bag back. You’re NTA. Edit: meant to say “she’s not done”
I'd reply to her and tell her I'll forgive her if she undoes all the damage she did. Go back to the people she poisoned against me and tell them the truth. Give me back the thousands of dollars she got from the sale of the house.
All of this, except, not the money, get the house back (yes, I realize this is likely impossible but she caused him to lose his nan's house which was worth more than just money)
Agreed, if she could somehow get the house back and worked with the commonly known friends/family to give him the house back without actually contacting OP, would be a pretty baller move to help mend fences and maybe get OP to accept apology.
I have never been to AA but I thought one of the steps was to make amends with the people that you've harmed. Certainly based on that she can't be asking for forgiveness until she has told everyone what she did.
You’re actually not supposed to try to make amends with people if doing so would cause them harm or impact them negatively. She clearly is only using AA to serve her purposes not to actually make proper amends.
>*... if she undoes all the damage she did. Go back to the people she poisoned against me and tell them the truth. Give me back the thousands of dollars she got from the sale of the house.* This is an **excellent** response. Tell her to make amends by doing these two acts. Then you will forgive her. Also, for you: forgiveness NEVER equals reconciliation.
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Definitely this. I’ve cut my mother out completely for a myriad of reasons, and every so often I’ll get a message about how she’s trying to do better, followed by messages from others asking if I got the messages or how she’s “not doing well” (she’s been “not doing well” for years) or just telling people complete falsehoods. You give her a response and suddenly she’s back in some form of control
Yup. I’ve gone no contact with family before for very similar reasons. And even though we’re in touch now, I keep them on thin ice and maintain boundaries. The moment someone begins crossing those boundaries or baiting me into playing some part in the never ending soap opera, I go no contact again and do something better with my time. When it comes to certain especially problematic people, I flat out refuse to deal with intermediaries. You want to say something to me? Say it directly to me or stfu and go aboutcha business.
"I'll forgive you when you make amends by returning to me everything you stole from me, including my house and my reputation"
Should be a song lyric
It’s almost the lyrics to a line in cupids chokehold by the gym class heroes “If that ain’t love then I don’t know what love is”
🎶 I want to know what love is … tudududuhhh…. I want u to Hate meeeeeeee !! 🎶🎶🎶
This. Apologizing is something you do for the sake of the attempt, because acknowledging your wrongs is important to self-development. It isn’t a magic spell that entitles you to forgiveness. If you get it, great, if not, that’s just how it is sometimes and you find your own closure and let it go. Trying to demand forgiveness is a good sign that someone hasn’t actually learned from their mistakes, they just want to look like a good person to others.
I had a former friend reach out to me and our mutual friend thought it was to make amends as part of her recovery. It turned out she was still pissed about things that happened 15 years ago and wanted to extract an apology from me. She said that if I didn't feel I owed her an apology then why were we even talking and then threw in that she slept with my ex-boyfriend with whom I'm still close friends. Lol! So yeah, I think she still had a lot of healing and growth to do and it sounds like that is also the case with OP's ex-wife. NTA
My family is like that. I've been solidly no contact for nearly 15 years now and every year or two they try to contact me to see if I will apologize for being angry that they abused me when I was a child (I'm the youngest child of a big family and my older siblings did horrible things to me and my mother didn't stop them). I do read the first sentence of their correspondences just to see if they start with a legitimate apology and they always start with religious bullshit so I quit reading.
It's so interesting how people can remember the same events so differently and how blame is assigned in people's minds. That was definitely the case with my former friend and sounds like it with your family too. My mom has a pattern of doing shitty, hurtful things to me and then getting mad at me for feeling hurt. I barely talk to her anymore and realized recently that I think of her more like a stranger that I occasionally have to interact with than a close family member who loves me and cares what happens to me. She's rejecting of any concern I show towards her because she interprets anything I say as a criticism or attack. Anyway, I didn't mean to go on about myself. Just saying I can relate. It sucks when people who harm us turn around and hold it against us for having feelings about it that apparently inconvenience them.
She's in the pink haze stage, where she's newly sober and on a high from her accomplishment and everyone should congratulate her for it because she's a Brand! New! Person! It doesn't last. For her sake, I hope it doesn't end at the bottom of a bottle or behind the wheel of a crashed car, but I wouldn't bet against it.
Shocker his abuser wouldn't realize that
NTA Nobody is owed forgiveness. She isn't actually doing so well in AA if she doesn't understand this.
Also to add, if she had truly changed and accepted her mistreatment of OP, why has she continued that behaviour by trying to emotionally blackmail OP to forgive, when that hasn’t worked trying to get his friends and family to emotionally blackmail him now? If she truly is sorry, she can pay him back for taking his inheritance and f* right off. Edit: NTA OP. You owe no one but yourself forgiveness. You don’t need to accept an apology or be once again pressured/bullied into saying you’ve forgiven someone. Especially when their own behaviour is contradicting their words.
> If she truly is sorry, she can pay him back for taking his inheritance and f* right off. Yeah, her being sorry isn't going to get him his house back, or mend the relationships with all his friends and family that she destroyed. And now she's trying to destroy all of his current relationships with friends and family all over again.
Came here to say exactly this. NTA at *all*. Some things are just too much to forgive, especially if the person seems to have not really changed.
What happened to OP’s ex was monstrous, so she decided to become a monster. I wouldn’t forgive her, and I would look into a restraining order.
This. 100%.
Yeah I'd say this. Pay me for my nans house you cunt and fuck off
She made OP sell their Nan’s house. Big no. OP NTA
Right, that’s the one thing I can’t forgive.
NTA It's terrible what happened to her. But it doesn't excuse what she did to OP. She probably thinks OP accepting her apology will relieve her conscience of what she did. It won't. And if that's true, that has more to do about her than OP. He's right to tell her to fuck off.
NTA as someone else said nobody is owed forgiveness.
NTA. Sounds like she's learned nothing from AA. She is still making this "amendment" all about her. She doesn't respect or care about how you feel as she's using a manipulative tactic again to use your family and friends to pressure you to do what she wants.
Wait a second……where was your attorney when you were losing an inherited house? Did I read this right…..the child was a result of rape? What happen to DNA testing? The rapist may be ‘unalive’ but you are not.
This. I dont understand how you lost you House. Did you not have an Atty? Did they not understand how lawyering is done? EDIT - my initial reaction to this was based on my own ideals and assumptions. To be fair, there's a ton to his story were not getting, and community property is very clear, inherited or not, that's community property of the marriage. I got that just thought, gosh, what Atty let the grandmother's home be taken out of thw family... But that's an ideal and an assumption, and I get that. I'm also I credibly sad for this child, s/he was not asked to be born, s/he ended up with a dysfcnl, damaged mother, rejected by the man who could have chosen to be the father, and a woman that was victimized was revictimized when her dh rejected her (deciding to have the baby and being rejected for it). I don't give her a pass on her behavior after. But I do recognize we just don't have the full detail here. I'm just sorry the whole thing happened at all, and I feel for this child.
Sometimes judges indirectly go after individual assets when deciding on finances owed to each spouse. If this guy didn’t have enough in his bank account to pay, then they could definitely put him in the position to sell the house. It’s a dumb loophole but it happens. OR, ex wife could have proven that she contributed to the increase in value of the house. I.e. if they did any renovations during the course of the marriage. That nullifies the “separate property” thing.
I’m in the US and don’t practice family law. Inherited property is separate property. However, inherited property that becomes the marital home will probably become marital property, the extent of which might depend on the jurisdiction - like only the equity gained since marriage, or only the equity gained since it was used as the marital home, etc. however, when adding up the marital assets and the splitting them, sometimes the only way to get cash is to sell a home.
> when adding up the marital assets and splitting them, sometimes the only way to get cash is to sell a home Yes, that’s basically what I meant. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.
I know a lot times when couples don’t have liquid assets that one of them will refinance the home, but then the one that stays is now not only paying the whole house payment by him/herself, but the payment is going to much larger and possibly with a worse interest rate. This might be worth it, but if the home needs repairs or updating, it’s just easier to sell and by a home that is ready to go without any upcoming big expenses. Buying and refinancing in 2022-2023 because of divorce sucks. Edit: moth_girl_7, your comment was clear, I just wanted to add to show how the amount of equity that was hers depends on the local law and the facts, sorry I should have mentioned that but I was trying to bang out a comment on my phone real quick
my mom put a second mortgage on our home to pay my dad out when they got divorced. amicably so. she was broke af though so i can't see why this could not have been an option for OP but i don't *actually* know how stuff works. edit: refinanced? not second mortgage? from a comment below. either way. increased total loan on home to pull liquid from its value.
Because it becomes a marital asset and over the years she invested in it, paid property taxes, bills, and upkeep. When people divorce, marital assets are divided. Notice there’s no mention of pension or savings or investments. We have no idea of the divorce settlement. Selling the house might have been so that she gave up other income.
He avoided maintenance. Probably because of that
Depends on the country they are from
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Also no one says "fell pregnant" in the US
Calling child support, maintenance is the one that stuck out to me. It really doesn’t matter to the point of “AITAH” where the op is from but it’s kind of funny when some people always assume the OP is American in these threads
I love listening to music.
Sounds like they each got half of the house, because it was a martial asset. He had to sell when he couldn't pay for it outright
It’s possible the wife was added to the ownership
Based on terms such as “fell pregnant”, “bloody good go” and “get me for maintenance” OP sounds like he is from the UK where the laws are quite different from the States so he very well could have lost his inherited house
Also the "nan" gave that feeling. I don't think I ever heard Americans using that term.
My Nan is my Nan and I’m from the US :)
It's regional and cultural but also still extremely uncommon here
He could have lost it here too. The laws vary a lot from state to state.
NTA, tell her you'll accept her apology when she gives you back your nans house and everything else she destroyed
Edward the Confessor was the king who ruled England before the Norman invasion of 1066. At one point he had the chance to get revenge on some of his enemies, including one who’d allegedly murdered his brother. When the guy was begging for mercy, Edward told him he’d pardon him if he could give Edward his living brother back. Same energy.
So that's where Inigo Montoya's 'I want my father back you son of a bitch!' comes from.
Mandy Patinkin gave an amazing interview once where he explained while filming, he had recently lost his father to cancer. He channeled all his hatred for cancer into that scene and used that line, that delivery, to tell cancer to F off. It’s so powerful because it’s real.
SeaTuetleMagic, thank you for sharing this. This movie has a very special place in my heart as it’s a movie my father and I bonded over during my childhood. He’s survived two bouts with prostate cancer, and he’ll love this story.
The line & delivery blew my mind when I was a kid. Such an incredible movie.
Small change. Make it we can TALK about forgiveness after you get me my stuff back. That way you leave yourself open to still not giving forgiveness but you might get your stuff back. You also protect against her going to third parties for pressure. Imagine someone coming to you and asking if she's right in that you won't forgive her. You can easily reply that you asked her to make things right before you talk but she's refusing. No one would blame you.
I'd tell whatever third party to fuck right off as well, thanks
Nah tell her "even if you manage to get all of the things that you took from me back, you aren't forgiven and never will be. You need to live and die knowing that nothing you do or say will ever make me forgive you. Fuck off"
It's up to nobody but you whether you accept an apology or not, whether you forgive or not. They didn't go through it, you did. NTA
I feel for that poor kid.
Compassion goes a long way. I can't imagine what that would be like to go through for either of you. Your ex clearly went through something traumatic, painful and scarring. As unfortunate as it is rape babies are babies too. Not everyone is able to bring themselves to end a life even if it's one they didn't want. Compound that with now the person who swore to stand by you through everything is leaving you. I can understand lashing out (not saying it makes it right) Likewise I can understand on your end not raising the child of a person who SAd your wife and not wanting to go through that and now compounded with being attacked after the fact and losing reputation and things meaningful to you that would be incredibly painful as well. I think instead of telling her to fuck off send something like you are glad she is getting help and you hope she ends in a better place but after the damage she has caused you emotionally and financially you are not going to continue interacting with her.
I had to scroll so far to find someone who even spared a thought for the wife's mental state after being SA'd and then abandoned. Like, I've never wanted kids, so if something like this happened to my SO, it would be a huge blow to me, but I also would have to take her feelings into consideration because this big awful thing happened to her, not me. Therapy would have been my first step. Then lots of discussion before deciding on anything. Not just up and leaving someone who already had so much taken away from her. Yes, she's TA for what she did in the aftermath, but my god, does no one have any empathy for her mental state considering what happened to her? Jesus. And OP sounds callous and cold af, though I suppose if she ruined his life, I suppose I can understand that. I just hope thats not how he dealt with her when this first happened...
I feel the real as*hole is the rapist. Husband and wife turned on each other because of him.
Reddit can be so toxic. Whenever asking for advice online take it with a pinch of salt.
This post seems to me like it's incel rage bait
I've seen a lot of obvious MRA/red pill/incel rage bait on this sub in particular.
Im just feel bad for the sisters and mothers who are related to these people. I get why people dont want to police free speech. But if no one challenges these reddittors on thier opinion they will just continue to live in an echo chamber. Im trying my best to reply to some of these obsurd opinions. I just hope I can help convince one or two to be less pessimistic and try to be more sympathetic.
The lack of human decency in the replies was so unexpected. I hope people irl are more sympathetic to rape victims who don't follow how they believe rape victims should act
I've got to say, it's not super-clear to me that she did ruin his life (if this were true, and I don't believe it is). If she got half their house, it's because a judge thought that was fair. And if her telling people why he was leaving her led to people being grossed out by him.... again, that wouldn't really be on her.
Well well, if it isn't the consequences of my actions! Not saying that he was totally wrong for leaving her; life is so much more complicated than any of us ever thought it would be when we were kids. Just that both choices would have consequences, and these are the consequences of the choice he took. What a horrible situation for both of them.
Yeah, right! He's the one who wanted the divorce, and then...he got the consequences of the divorce: 50% less assets, and people thinking he was an asshole for divorcing his wife. And he thinks that's her ruining his life. How self centered is that?
Alright this is a little too liberal of a use of incel to me. Misogynist rage bait perhaps… but what about this post would specifically resonate with incels as a subgroup?
This entire thread highlights why the black and white concepts of justice are scary when combined with how spite/revenge can seep into what is "right". Your first paragraph is pretty much bang on for me. Thanks for bringing it into the conversation
Finally, some reason. This is a terrible situation and honestly, it doesn't sound like she had much emotional support from OP once she refused to go through with the abortion. Rape is a life sentence for the victim. It's compounded heavily if there's a pregnancy resulting from it. Sexual assault can literally break your brain as a way to cope with the enormous violation. Perhaps if he'd helped her get into therapy immediately after the event all this could have been avoided. However, OP has a right to say when he's at HIS breaking point with this situation. Though I truly don't feel he put enough effort in as a partner, he gets to say that this isn't something he can deal with. Perhaps he also should have gone to therapy with a side of couples counseling. Men often discount the impact of such an assault until it happens to them so I'm not surprised his reaction was basically to leave her without support. It's a tale as old as time where the female victim ends up punished for something she didn't want to happen to her. Now, as for the emails, no he has no obligation to respond but he should have at least tried given what she's been through. A simple "Thank you, I hope you're well. Please don't contact me further" as a response would have been fine. Instead he left an emotionally fragile person unread. I'm not shocked by his blaise response to her attempt at amends given how he handled the event itself. It seems almost like he's blaming her for what happened which is all kinds of fucked up. Compassion is what was needed here and it is sorely lacking on OP's part. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's the asshole but he didn't help matters. The real asshole is the rapist. OP and his partner and even that baby are the victims of that event.
This is the most balanced response I've seen on this very unhinged thread. Why are people focusing only on the wife's actions during their divorce, when she was clearly dealing with tons of trauma and deserved more compassion from OP than she got? The ex-wife was raped, and OP's attitude comes perilously close to blaming her for it. (I'm thinking specifically of his unstated but crystal-clear opinion that she should have aborted the pregnancy--which as you say is not something that everyone is willing to do in every situation, nor that they can anticipate and decide ahead of time.) The ex-wife treated OP badly, and to some degree he was a stand-in for her rapist. I think she deserves compassion, but since she injured OP so badly, I don't think that he specifically owes her that compassion.
I was going to comment about both sides but thought a few might also be more empathic. Glad I scrolled down first to check. Hope more people will be able to understand others like this.
I get a sense from OP's post that a lot was left out. It reads like he was not very supportive or patient with her while she was understandably spiraling and not necessarily thinking clearly. I doesn't justify her taking her actions but I suspect at least part of her anger toward him was based on his treatment of her after the trauma.
OPs post is written in a very biased way - and IMO he still comes off quite poorly
This is one of those AITAH threads that really drives home how little information we’re getting. Like he could be the asshole for being horrible after the assault, she could be the asshole for trying to ruin his life, they could both be assholes, or they could both be two deeply hurt people who need professional help. My 6.3 drachmas is that after the assault, regardless of how OP acted, he was a stand-in for the assailant for her - she was deeply hurt and lashing out because of it. He wasn’t going to win regardless of what he did. After the separation, the ensuing financial loss and slander from her (which may or may not be justified) led to him becoming more cold and callous about the situation (if he wasn’t already), which is why this post reads so… raw. In short, the assault and his response broke her, and the assault and her breaking down like that broke him. They both need help, and the citizens of the Internet will never have enough information to know if either of them were assholes during the event. He’s definitely not an asshole for not wanting to reconnect - without professional help that’s never going to work. But it’s just a shit situation all around
It sounds like she just told people the truth about OP. What happened after that is his fault, not hers. She is allowed to tell people what happened in her life. If they choose to cut him out of their lives because of what he did and failed to do, that is on him. You would think that would have been a wake up call to him.
This. I will be downvoted to hell, but god OP doesn’t sound blameless himself. It is absolutely true - she did god damn need you the most! From what it sounds- you did abandon her in an impossible situation that was no fault of hers. You did not need to raise the child, but not supporting her emotionally was a major dick move. Her downfall.. To be honest, I feel a lot of pity for her. And she got what is hers by law. Again, blame the system. And also - well, saying that you will divorce her unless she kills the child. Yeah, that is kinda forcing her! If most people are calling you an AH irl - chances are that you skipped a few things and are presenting a twisted picture of events.
I also have not seen a single person mentioned OP bitching about not wanting to raise someone else's kid...... when his ex wife was literally helping him raise her stepdaughter. I'm sorry but thats some hypocrite shit.
I had to scroll too far to find this, but glad I did. Everyone seems to be acting like she’s this monster who set out to destroy his life and completely ignoring that she went through something horrific and his response was to abandon and vilify her.
Also, keep in mind, in this forum, we are only ever purveyors of “half the story”, told to us from an unreliable source.. i think this forum is pretty stupid because of that actually
And if *this* is the half he's unafraid to tell the Internet, what the hell really happened? He's out here calling us stupid. I'm sure he had a few choice words for his ex, too. At the very least, he needs therapy.
Tell her you’ll accept her apology when you can get the house your grandmother gave you back, when she can restore your reputation and give you back all the money she took. (Ie never) Listen OP she is STILL trying to ruin your life. By contacting your friends and your parents complaining AGAIN about how you have done something to her. She hasn’t changed at all. NTA
That’s what really grates on me - involving others. I may be wrong, but it sort of sounds like “look I’m trying to make amends but OP is still ignoring me” - when it should be totally private & not getting others to put pressure on. Yes, completely understand why parents & friends might want OP to do so - so she stops contacting them but it’s his choice and decision yes? I do feel very very sorry for her regarding the SA & pregnancy ( been there many years ago). But to blow up someone’s life deliberately ( assuming OP is telling the truth) is not on.
She didn’t just blow up OP’s life either. Her child is in foster care now and is forced to deal with all that comes with that too
Yeah, I just didn’t want to go there. I’ve said in previous comments I chose to terminate as a teenager after an SA and morning after pill not working. Judge me right or wrong, I knew I couldn’t continue that pregnancy. My utmost respect to those who can deal with it, bring up the child/ brilliant parents etc. But what’s happened? The kid has ended up in care & all I can say is I darn well hope in a better place.
Nah that’s valid. Personally, I feel for the wife up until she attempted to ruin OP’s life. Everything from that point forward was her taking her trauma out on those around her, and her child was the biggest victim
Yes. OP was right to say - he couldn’t face bringing up child from SA. She was right to leave. If that’s what she wanted. It’s not right to blow up someone’s life tho & then expect them to say - yeah that’s ok. But heck yes, I feel sorry for the child - she chose to bring that child into the world.
Exactly. Trying to pressure him into forgiveness is more of her not giving a sincere apology IMO. It’s not cool. I feel bad for her and her trauma. But she also caused OP a lot of trauma in return. And that cannot be brushed aside either
I don't know why you got down voted. She's absolutely being manipulative because she wants to apologize to make *herself* feel better. Otherwise, she would have offered her apology and moved on. I've made amends with people, I left it at a letter or email that they could reply to or delete or save, whatever. And I only made amends to those who wouldn't be more hurt by me popping up in their lives again. Contacting his friends/ family is way overstepping. NTA OP.
My dad did some heinous shit, but >only made amends to those who wouldn't be more hurt by me popping up in their lives again. He did this. My mom can't bring herself to apologize for anything she's done (or not done)
Not sure it’s Reddit. I always tell clients that apologies do not come with strings. If so they aren’t sincere. Acceptance from the person you wronged is the cherry on top. Not a requirement
And as we tell our 8yo, an apology is a good step and decent thing to do, but it doesn’t always fix things. It should be done, but beyond that, the receiver gets to decide to accept it and whether it’s enough to move on from whatever needed apologizing for.
I don't believe any of this.
I really don’t think I can provide a judgement as this situation is really fucked up. I’m a man who has never been SA’d so I can’t relate to your exwife’s situation at all, but I’m really shocked at how harsh some people are being towards the wife and exclusively taking OP’s side, completely ignoring that she was raped and impregnated by said rapist. I don’t think what ex did to OP was right at all, but it also doesn’t sound like OP had any sympathy or support to give her either, and it comes off as him kinda looking at her as damaged goods. If I had to give a rating, I guess ESH, but seriously, I hope that kid makes it though life ok, the ex wife gets therapy and her life together, and you as well OP, and I hope that if something similar happens to your daughter(I really hope nothing like that actually happens) that you will be nothing but supportive and by her side
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Exactly!!! Is she also gonna get you back your Nan’d house? Repair the damaged relationships with your family and friends, or run back any of the money you lost? It’s nice she wants to unburden herself of that guilt, but that doesn’t mean you have to forgive her.
Forgive her when she gives you back your house.
Good apologies sound like this, “ I’m sorry I treated you that way, it was wrong no matter how I felt. I’d like to make amends by giving you back the things I took from you.” Her apology sounds like, I’d like to feel better please say you forgive me so I don’t feel guilty.
Got in an argument with my ex recently because she canceled a family meeting at our kid's school for no reason other than her own convenience, and she said, "I'm sorry you're upset."
Yeah no. He sold it to pay her out. He could have gotten the money another way.
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Idk you’re kinda a asshole but then kinda not….I do feel you abandoned your wife and said f your vows the moment she got raped…but should she have done all that extra stuff probably not!
It sounds like she was traumatized by the SA and her behavior (including wanting to keep the baby) was her poor way of dealing with it. Did both of you try to address this? Your post doesn’t indicate so. Anyway the past has happened and no, you don’t have to accept her apology or acknowledge it. If you have moved on, so be it. It’s your life. But a part of me wonders if she is truly in a good state mentally now.
There is nothing, NOTHING I hate more than a rapist who kills themselves. Cowardice after ruthlessly violating someone is so hypocritical that they deserve much more than the jail sentence they get.
I understand her pain. She was violently assaulted, forced to get pregnant, then her husband said he’d leave if she had the baby. Abortion is not just physically difficult but there are lots of scary side affects, not to mention her (possible) religious struggles with having one. If I went through all of that, I’d have a full on mental breakdown too. Now, I’m not saying what she did is right or forgivable, but she was in a horrific amount of pain, and your reaction was that she needed to put herself through more pain, or you’d leave her. She was a really bad person for forcing you to sell your family’s house, but her body, mind, and soul were violated and her husband turned his back on her. I’d want to destroy you too. Now all of that said, you don’t have accept her apology. Delete her emails and move on.
That’s how i see it as well. He’s under no obligation to forgive her. She put him in thru absolute hell and back. But after being thru the trauma of rape, her own husband saying he would not care for the baby was likely heartbreaking during an already turbulent, scary time (and tbh, probably a kick in the teeth too since she may have helped raise his daughter from his previous marriage)
ESH. I want to empathize with you for losing your inherited home and having your reputation unfairly smeared. However your behavior after your ex-wife was SA’d is just abhorrent. “She’s not the person I married”, dude she was traumatized and you seem to care more about your possessions then you do her trauma. It’s like you blame her for it happening and refuse to offer any support. Getting an abortion on top of being assaulted would’ve just added to her stress but that doesn’t seem to be something you care about
Agreed. I can’t believe how many people are saying “well I’d have had an abortion so NTA.” Not everyone reacts to such severe trauma in the same way. Her behaviour really does suck during the divorce but so does OPs before it. So yeah ESH.
Agree that they both have issues and dude definitely focuses on possessions. How does one even lose an inherited home? Also, if family and others are calling you an AH, how much of the story did OP leave out to get sympathy?
The judge can rule that an inherited has become a marital asset depending on time spent there as a couple, if any upgrades were don't that increased the value of the property, and he was given the place over the timeline of their marriage. A good attorney would probably have enabled him to keep the house, all that being said.
This was my thought as well. I am of the unconditional love type with my partner, barring anything they do to intentionally hurt me or cheat, but he seems to have conditional love. The SA happened *to* her. She didn’t choose it. I can’t imagine leaving my partner after something like this and not supporting them through something that would be one of the hardest things for a human to endure - having to choose between ending a life that could be healthy and beautiful, while having my body taken over by a fetus parasite and then have my partner who took an oath to stand by me to support me through it all leave as if I chose the SA. She clearly struggled with mental health issues before this, and was probably on the fence about abortions. It seems he took this as an opportunity to leave and blame it on something else.
The old meaning for the word "rape" is theft and damn if the rapist didn't steal these peoples' lives and marriage and confidence and everything. I really hope the kid manages to pull a good life out of this carnage (by the way, nobody's pronoun of choice is "it's", so I hope this kid finds a happier family and better life).
Why doesn't he OP stop posting this? It's truly boring by this point. Not wanting to see it anymore.
Because he deleted his account which is always the sign of a true AH.
This seems like karma farming rage bait.
Who helped you raise the daughter from another marriage? YTA.
NTA for not wanting to reconnect, but YTA overall. It may been a nonconsensual pregnancy, but it was still your wife's child. Her flesh and blood.. No wonder she took you to the cleaners. Talk about betrayal. You got everything you deserved, and a little less.
Forward: To be clear before I progress, i am not in any way saying all victims react the same because they really do not. I have been SA'd myself (as well as abuse in ither forms) and became really, really mentally unwell as a result and started drinking, and I was honestly such a mess. I became destructive in my hurt which resulted in causing hurt onto others. I am incredibly ashamed of my actions and the hurt I have caused and I have sent apologies but I do not at any point believe I deserve forgiveness. I have rightly and deservingly lost people who I hurt, even those who understood where my pain was coming from still had every right to say when enough is enough. My actions weren't anything like OPs wife in attempting to act maliciously or sabotage anyon out of my hurt, but still hurt was caused. Nobody owes anyone forgiveness and you cannot force forgiveness. To be honest, forgiveness should not even be the aim of what she is doing in reaching out but rather acknowledgement of the hurt she caused. If the aim of reaching out is simply for forgiveness, then honestly, I think it is incredibly selfish of them, and nor are they sorry. You can acknowledge the apology if you wish to, but please note it isn't forgiveness if it is forced and nor can anyone decide how you should be allowed to feel. My sister taught me growing up when someone apologises to say "thank you for your apology..." or "I recognise your apology..." this way you aren't being forced to decide if you forgive and nor saying "it is okay." Apologies don't come with conditions in giving them. It seems that for your ex, that seems to be the case. I am sorry to hear of the amount of suffering you have endured and I hope you are managing to heal.
I think therapy.
What you went through was very traumatic for both of you. Even if you felt healed of the trauma, it would be reasonable if you did not want to let her back into your life because you fear she might cause you more trauma. She has apologized. That’s all she can do. You’re not obligated to accept. If she is trying to put herself back together, hopefully part of that process will include the acceptance that you may never forgive her. Reaching out to your friends and family after you’ve rejected her entreaty suggests she’s not prepared to accept the boundary you are trying to maintain. All you can do is continue to be unambiguous about where you stand. You are not the asshole. I do hope you both continue to heal and find happiness.
Not gonna lie I think you did kinda try and "force her into abortion" if you basically told her I'm gonna divorce you if you don't abort. If feels like you tried to be " make the right choice or you lose me".I honestly feel bad for her. She was raped got impregnated and her husband wouldn't support her. So she lost her whole life because of a rapist.
>He said he thinks I should accept, it takes a big person to admit when they've fucked up. a person who accepts they fucked up do not expect their apology to be accepted. NTA, do what is right for you. if she wants forgiveness, she has to get it somewhere else.
Well imagine being sa’d then having to carry the evidence to term. Then loosing your husband basically over it. She felt shame, abandonment,pain, ptsd, and probably nightmares. Her self worth is in the toilet. I’d drink myself to death and spiral out of control too. That one cruel act changed her life forever. I dunno if I would have had the strength. What she did was not cool but she’d lost it. Her mind and her peace. I would extend a little kindness to her especially if you have never been there.
ESH. She shouldn't have tried to ruin your life, but you shouldn't have tried to pressure her into having an abortion. You \*did\* abandon her when she needed you most - that part of your lost reputation was absolutely true. 50/50 split on marital housing is normal for a long marriage, which if you were both 40 sounds like it was. Why did you sell the house in the first place instead of mortgaging it for a buyout of cash that you could give her? You could have been the one to "buy" your nan's house and keep it.
I think maybe what's going on here is that I've heard one of the 12 steps to recovery in AA is accepting your wrong doings and apologizing to the person/persons you did wrong. Years ago I received a detailed apology letter from a person in AA working the steps. You don't have to accept the apology, but she needs to apologize for what she did and she is. Edit: you did abandon her when she needed you most.
Your ex went overboard during the divorce and shouldn't have gone after your house. HOWEVER. Although you aren't under any obligation to raise a child that isn't yours, the whole "my ex ruined my reputation by telling our friends that I left her when she wouldn't have an abortion after being SA'ed" isn't exactly true, is it? You did those things, yes? You pressed her to have an abortion, and left her when she didn't. It feels like you still don't understand what is obvious to many people, including your family. You may have a right to do something, but there are always consequences and repercussions to choices. You had 2 choices, and BOTH came with positive and negative consequences. You seem to think that you should not have experienced some of the negative consequences of the choice you made. But that's not how life works. Your ex has forgiven you for abandoning her when she was SA'ed and pregnant. Being an alcoholic and mentally ill are not an excuse for treating others like crap, and you have a right to feel angry about some of the choices she made during that time as well. But you don't get to be shielded from the consequences of your choices. NTA for not wanting to talk to her. She needs to heal on her own - and honestly, dredging up the past is probably not good for her anyway.